Feature
"It's not you, it's me." That's the message the Japanese gaming industry is telling the world this week at TGS. "Our games are as good as ever, they're just not for you anymore."
Critics in the west have been crowing about the supposed death of the Japanese industry for years. And while their critiques have a certain degree of truth to them, they're missing the point. Japanese game development did run into trouble during this console generation, but their issues are so removed from the average gamer's experience (workforce and labor management) as to be meaningless. The games themselves are as good as they've ever been, but they're just not made for the entire world anymore. Japanese games are now by and large made to appeal almost exclusively to Japanese gamers. Rather than this being another piece that focuses on the alleged downfall of the Japanese industry, we thought we should focus on why Japanese games and western tastes have diverged so much in recent years. There's no single cause that can explain the phenomena -- the possible reasons range from the social and economic, to the practical and mundane. Regardless, the fact remains that Japanese gamers are now seeking different experiences from North Americans and Europeans.
Gamer taste in both regions underwent a massive sea change in recent years. While the slow takeover of the AAA console space by former PC heavy-hitting franchises, genres and studios like Fallout, FPS games, and BioWare changed the tastes of the western market in the past decade, other forces have been working on Japan in the same time. The reasons for the shift in Japanese gamer taste are numerous, but there are three that western gamers in the country continuously note -- a peculiar emotion called moe, the Japanese concept of hobbies and adulthood, and a tradition of disparaging foreign games.
Moe
The concept of moe (pronounced MOH-ay) is incredibly important amongst Japan's indigenous nerd population, otherwise known as otaku. While there are train otaku, military otaku, and otaku of all kinds, a great many of them focus on the geeky triad of anime, manga, and video games; the three media influence each other and are often linked together. Moe is a word that Otaku will often use at the sight of a cute, large-eyed juvenile character, but when asked point blank "What does moe mean?" most are unable to offer a coherent answer. It is an amorphous concept.
The word is often used by westerners familiar with Japan to describe the lolicon (short for Lolita Complex) art style which focuses on young, often pre-pubescent girls, and seems to feature a disturbing mix of childlike cuteness with subtle and not-so-subtle sexual overtones. This definition is not quite right according to Patrick Galbraith, a researcher of otaku culture at the University of Tokyo. "Moe is an affective response to a fictional character or representations of a character. There are two things that are important to note about this definition. First, we are talking about a response. Moe is used not to describe a character type or style, but rather characters that are likely to trigger a response or are designed with that in mind. This implies that there are a range of different characters that appeal men and women or various ages and orientations. Second, moe is a response to fictional characters, not actual people. Without this distinction, moe is conflated with descriptions such as 'cute' or 'sexy.'"
Moe describes the emotions that otaku feel upon seeing, thinking of, or interacting with a certain kind of character. Depending on the person, this character may or may not fit the little girl image that western game critics have come to associate with the word. It may be used by female anime, manga, or game fans that enjoy "Boys Love" media which feature homosexual pairings between popular characters for example.
So what exactly does this mean for games? It actually depends on which ones you're talking about -- for the biggest titles it means nothing, but it means everything to smaller publishers and developers. The business model for small games in Japan can only be sustained by catering to a small yet rabid fan base that's willing to pay a premium for content. AAA titles normally sell for between the equivalent of $40-$60, while smaller niche titles are usually priced at $80-plus. Small developers make their money by selling less at a higher profit margin, while major publishers sell more for less. If you publish small games in Japan you have to give your fans what you want, and since your fans are otaku who revel in moe, you'll give them games filled with the characters that elicit that response -- which are usually young, childlike girls. Between August and December of this year there are a total of 35 games set for release in Japan which follow this exact model. There are more games like this than there are FPSs in the west. By catering to their fan base, smaller publishers have alienated many western fans.
Moe's effect on AAA games has not been as direct. If you want to make a massive hit, you can't sell it only to the small crowd who wants to ogle 2D characters, as Galbraith points out. "What moe game has as many players as Monster Hunter? What franchise has been as successful as Pokémon? What moe characters have had the cultural impact of those of Sailor Moon or Dragon Ball? The point is that they are not the majority of the audience, and the most popular and bestselling works in Japan are not those targeting moe fans."
If smaller games are catering to an almost exclusively Japanese audience, that still leaves mainstream titles for the rest of the world to enjoy, right? Well, not as many as there used to be.
Comments (314)
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![Nkomo7](data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="40" height="50"><rect fill-opacity="0"/></svg> "Nkomo7")
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IJS Are subtitles/text really too much to ask?
Posted: Apr 26, 2013 12:00AM PST by Nkomo7
Truth is the Japanese have ALWAYS had the best games and in most cases do not ever release it to the west and that sucks donkey kong balls. Im not a first person perspective type of player for me a 3d person with first person option (metal gear solid guns of the patriot is the epitome of why) is as far as I am willing to comfortably go so this american agrees with the saying MOST western games ARE shit. I am an action/adventure type of player and it burns my tail that in order for me to play more than a few (comparing it to ALL) quality games I have to learn an entirely new language (currently studying japanese). Minus the cultural references the idea that it would be too much trouble to put SUBTITLES in english/span/french etc.. and TEXT is APPALLING to me. That to me has always been the slap in the face. ( WE REFUSE to PUT IT IN ENGLISH? WTF? I want to BUY IT) I have yet to see how the culture/understanding could possibly deteriorate from GOOD GAME PLAY. If every VOICE in Shadow of the ninja, Bayonetta, ninja gaiden sigma 2, Asuras Wrath, GODHAND, GODEATER BURST 2, SUPER MARIO, Tenchu, SHINOBIDO 1 !!! (also not released in US WTF), Soul Sacrifice.. etc... yet the TEXT/subtitles were in english that would be FINE and people (me for one) would BUY THE GAME. Currently there is an entire market that capitalizes on exporting japanese only games and it sucks for the gamers like myself who love anime and enjoy the entertaining aspects of japanese culture. People steal, mod or whine all day for this very simple request. I guess U.S. money is no good to japanese developers or its not worth the effort?
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more culture the better
Posted: Jan 22, 2013 12:00AM PST by beatcreator
i like the fact that the japanese have their own distinctive style in media and video games. all the power too them. the more cultural offshoots the better, in my opinion!
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History
Posted: Dec 29, 2012 12:00AM PST by robertmcunningham
I have been a gamer since the old days. I try to stay on top of the gaming world, alot has changed, some good some not so good. I like games from all over the world, including Japan. Now in my opinion this thinking that games are based in fact are sometimes true, and others not. The problem here in America is that nobody really knows history, at least know who the President is or was. People that don't know history are doomed to repeat it. Assasin's Creed is using the Revolutionary War in America as its backdrop. Which in a way is cool, because nobody is really teaching about our history, the real history of America. You want to know the truth, look it up on-line. There are some really good books out there on a subject. Start at the library.
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right...
Posted: Aug 22, 2012 12:00AM PST by Johnny_Snake
What a ridiculous shit this was u.u Games was never for everyone, just because is english it dosen't mean it's for the world (even english being the most used international language). This is the american way of view, Brazilians for exemple don't even have a good educational system, for this, english games are like japanese games in here. The truth is that america is feeling excluded because japanese games is in most times more inovative (but i agree that the design offtens is something that dosen't appeal me) and now aren't reaching western (more like americans) public.
Japanese games are offten created for the gameplay, for this more balanced and dificulty games are releasd in there. America want only see movies with poor and easy gameplay like call of duty. Truth gamers are there, even the japenses don't having the time to play it. Japanese always were more creative even back then when the MSX, the powerful computer back in the time was made in there with the first metal gear. It's like saying the first computer network was created in america...
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I agree
Posted: Apr 26, 2013 12:00AM PST by Nkomo7
you have an interesting point of view. Yet I offer that if a console/system is sold in a region/ country then a developer making ANY game for that console/system should be obligated to at least make a text based readable option to make the software usable in that region. In order to do that the SYSTEM/CONSOLE would have to require it and then it would be done and all would be happy. In the west we have been doing all types of mods/hacks in order to acquire cross region games because we want them and like them. I believe this should stand for american developers as well as russians, koreans, canadians, japanese, european, chinese, etc... people just want to play the game! and if it is a matter of shipping then let the consumer foot the bill if the local retailers wont pick it up. But the fact is the western gamers only like what they like because they dont know any better. You have to be at least some kind of a underground gamer to even be aware of some of these releases. At the least its frustrating and at the most its disrespectful and condescending.
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That's funny...
Posted: Mar 15, 2012 12:00AM PST by Brenden_Sousa
I can honestly say that I'd be willing to pay new price for more Japanese titles than Western titles coming out now-a-days.
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I Love Manga and Anime
Posted: Jun 09, 2012 12:00AM PST by ZioBio
The gaming market has split itself in general with publishers. Back in the 90's there were games like zelda and megaman and final fantasy. No one cared where a game came from as long as it was good.
I love anime and manga and expect people who don't to like the things not to like them. Just as I don't expect people who like Star Wars or Dungeon and Dragons to expect people to like their stuff. The problem that happens is when a publisher starts pushing to "westernize" games instead of leaving them for the audience they were meant for. The first thing they always wreck are the moe characters. IMMEDIATLY the moe characters are changed because some bloat might be "offended" at a pixel drawing or ink and paper. Then the game itself gets picked apart until it's so null and dull for an audience that wouldn't even play the game to began with. And that audience is still unsatisfied with the game regardless because it is still asian.
En Masse Entertainment is a great example of this with TERA the once-korean game now turned into a lament of angry trolls, SWTOR and WoW morons who peddle-push anti-moeness in the game to the point of labeling everyone who plays a moe character a fiend. And it started with the publisher who forced out the otaku fans who would have played the game regardless by being a complete ass about it. Then Frogster followed suit with some side-comments that insulted entire fanbases. These are companies I could care less for and will not be supporting in future games. One has a D+ BBB rating and another has Brian Knoxx aboard(the guy who ruined Aion then ran over to TERA) so they weren't any good to began with.
I can play both western and asian games but it annoys me to no end when a game that was meant for a fanbase audience gets changed drastically and the publisher removes every unique aspect of the game until it becomes a pale comparison of what it was. It's because the west has a bad habit of associating everything to real life or assuming anime and video-games are for a younger audience when anime has multiple audiences.
In general anime is looked down upon worst than a comic-book fan. The problem is when comic book fans take the same attitude of those who wouldn't even play games to began with to and start showing the same symptons as the "general audience" would.
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Publishers graps is
Posted: Mar 09, 2012 12:00AM PST by xRELLIKx
And this is why the PROBLEM is PUBLSIHERS! Seriously, they need to stop banking on large titles. If any company wants something published this is what they hear:
"Well, we'd publish it if we feel it will make market demands with X, is too taboo with this element, there's no online functionality, Y, etc."
Developers then grind every unique and sharp edge off till it's either a bowling ball or an oversized paperweight. Then they need to formulate their marketing strategy to sell X bazillion copies in the first week (which basically means throwing the ball through a basketball net).
All we need are actual gamers in control. Indie has this, but then the problem is an inexpensive idea=cheap knockoffs and will last nostalgia, they seldom create a captivating/emotional experience. Still many of us in the west by disposable high quality trilogy installations and encourage more trilogies and if possible milking ruther, sidestories. These "moe" young gamers are getting that sweet caramel center. Meanwhile We don't have crowds like Japan, in order for the word to spread it's usually the internets (YAY!, A numerical value for grafx/sounds/bs/etc.), since unfortunately many hardcore gamers aren't always the best sales clerks. =/
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Thought of a single asian gamer
Posted: Dec 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by addictedtogame
When I read this article first thing came into my mind is how much the difference between Us and Japanese game.As a gamer from asia I played lots of game from both sides and enojoyed them.During the early 80s and 90s japanese game based in console were really popular in the whole world but after the era of 2d games, came 3d games which were mainly PC based that was where the japanese game publisher sidetracked and western publisher picked up the pace.
During this time western game publisher gifted us with many strong story based games with life like game character,the more time passed and they included in the game with more variety and options.
Japanese games also provide us with good game at this time but the more time passed the japanese game also included variety but it felt like they are distancing from us and focusing on only themselves, as a result asian gaming base were taken by western publisher or partially filled with their own games.
I don't know it called racism or something else but nowdays it seemed like the japanese game looks more like manga and anime which is a bit awkward to play, saying that their character design also seem more unreal with outlandish design.Now whenever I play a japanese game I get bored quickly with their diversive nature, where I feel more comfortable with the western genre and can play them for hours.
p.s.I apologize in advance if I somehow offened someone with this writing.
p.p.s.Sorry for the bad use of english-
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Interesting
Posted: Mar 18, 2012 12:00AM PST by Maetel1213
That's a very good explanation! Thank you.
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How DARE they sully the name of NENE!
Posted: Nov 20, 2011 12:00AM PST by ranivus
Love plus has provided many a gamer's (mostly in jpn ofc) hours of excitement. Moe is not a genre, not by a longshot. Its more of a character style, much akin to things like action heros, super villans, ditzy schoolgirl, etc. It's not that the japanese public like "Moe" its that they are more suseptable to fanboyism. If there is an anime that comes out and people love a specific character and the owners of that IP catch wind, you are guaranteed that you will see more product branded with that specific character. The same logic can be applied to Video Games reverting to Anime, et al. Sure Pokemon and monster rancher are popular as balls everywhere, but the article forgets some important points.
Those "niche" games are already based on established fanbases and are made according to that. Selling "Sky Girls" on XBL for $80 comes to mind. Hardly anyone in the west know's about the iDolm@ster series but that "moe" flooded game was THE game that kept the xbox afloat the first years it was introduced to Japan.
ALSO, big eyed fair skinned 2d characters DOES NOT compute to prebuescant child-like characters. Another western misconception. LOICON =/= moe is another one. 95% of the girls drawn in that fasion range in from late teens to early 20's... they're basically supposed to be representing the "barely legal" femal form. If you want to see lolicon, just google it and you will notice that girls drawn in that fashion are fairly different.
Hang around the anime/manga otaku culture for a minute, you'll see its just as diverse and in some cases, even more so than western movie / game cultures. I don't consider myself an otaku but I am a fan of all forms of pop culutre entertainment. I guess my point is just placing a gross generalization over a whole country and its 'unique' styles of games, is borderline racist imo.
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Do you really believe that..
Posted: Nov 29, 2011 12:00AM PST by dwrayswez
OK... this is from Wiki... and totally contradicts everything you try to defend...
Lolicon (?????), also romanised as lolikon or rorikon,[1] is a Japanese portmanteau of the phrase "Lolita complex". In Japan, the term describes an attraction to underage girls (whether prepubescent, pubescent, or post-pubescent)[2][3] or an individual with such an attraction.[4][5] It is also commonly used when referring to lolicon manga or lolicon anime, a genre of manga and anime wherein childlike female characters are often depicted in an erotic manner, in an art style reminiscent of the shojo manga (girls' comics) style. Outside Japan, "lolicon" is in less common usage and usually refers to the genre.
The phrase is a reference to Vladimir Nabokov's book Lolita, in which a middle-aged man becomes sexually obsessed with a twelve-year-old girl. It was first used in Japan in the 1970s and quickly became used to describe erotic dojinshi (amateur comics) portrayals of young girls. In the 1980s, lolicon manga became widely available in a number of anthology pornographic manga magazines. In 1989, a serial killer was found to be a devoted lolicon fan, creating a moral panic and calls for regulation of manga.
Laws have been enacted in various countries, including in Japan, which regulate explicit content featuring children or child-like characters. Parent and citizens groups in Japan have organized to work toward stronger controls and stricter laws governing lolicon manga and other similar media. Critics say that the lolicon genre contributes to actual sexual abuse of children, while others say that there is no evidence for this claim. Studies of lolicon fans state that lolicon fans are attracted to an aesthetic of cuteness rather than the age of the characters,[6] and that collecting lolicon represents a disconnect from society.[7][8][9]
so if you want to defend this art style, that's your choice...
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![AkaiNeko4](data:image/svg+xml,<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="283" height="191"><rect fill-opacity="0"/></svg> "AkaiNeko4")
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Uh....
Posted: Dec 01, 2011 12:00AM PST by AkaiNeko4
....ranivus never said they wanted more loli stuff, they said that moe =/= loli. Loli is usually moe, yes, but Solid Snake is considered moe. I kid you not. It's all about teh reaction they're going for: moe is basically geared towards making you want to give them a hug.
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Good Cultural Comparison Example
Posted: Nov 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by Angela7F
I have a good example for this article.
Chameleon War is very popular amongst Android users in Japan.
However, the initial reaction to the US release of this game has been totally different from Japan.
Since this is a puzzle game and doesnt include a story line, the difference in popularity is from character design.
i would say the character for this game is anime sexy verging on moe.
Would love to hear opinions.
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market control, not game type is the key
Posted: Nov 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by jerkchicken
as usual the foreign journalists miss the mark... the real issue with what sells in japan is a matter of strict market control. there's a great book on it called 'tokyo diaries' about all the crap kodak had to go through to finally break the market... dirty tricks are the norm and you wont have a platform on which to sell your product. people wont buy what they dont see or cant find in the store
this is the reason xbox fails, not because the games are inferior or japanese gamers dont/wouldn't like them. the japanese business model is one that supports domestic products exclusively, so breaking in is nigh impossible.
i've seen xbox displays all through japan, in family stores, to department stores and electronic stores, and the tvs are never ever ON. they could just as easily power them on to give gamers a taste, but sony wouldn't like that... which is a reason world of warcraft the biggest game in history, hasn't seen any action... sony (ffXwhatever) wouldn't like it.
break into the market, japanese players would love to play what we're playing... good games just sell. if they're promoted.
edit: I'll just add I have plenty of evidence, there's just not ample room or reason to go on here... but another problem is the perception that japanese and westerners are fundamentally different (promulgated by both sides honestly) when it comes to technology and entertainment, we couldn't be more alike. So people looking for reasons for differences often find them, and always say its because of the 'japanese/western psyche' etc. nonsense
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It's about cultural differences
Posted: Nov 11, 2011 12:00AM PST by Sablicious
I think you'll find the reason Western (US mainly) gamers don't "get" Japanese games - as an extension from that, foregin culture - is because of their insular upbrining.
US gamers want guns, gore and violence as the central focus of the majority of the video games they play. The defunct FPS genre - largely due to its 'violence on tap' nature and casual play mechanics - are a prime example of how the US market differs from others in the world. So, naturally, it follows that games with themes of "Boy Love" and with androgenous protagonist aren't going to strike accord with players who want only to expell testosterone through the agency of violence.
The furphy about Japanese game development dying is simply fretful US gamers / game critics attempting to dissemble their own insecurities about the one-dimensional tastes of their own gaming market.
The three main gaming markets (sans China) in a stereotypical nutshell:
Japan - gameplay and innovation centric games; 'Moe' and androgenous characters; high fantasy; fighters, RPGs, animé games
US - gore, guns and violence; simplicity and accessibility; the repeated use (rehashing) of game models / IPs; FPS, action, war
EU - sports, shooters, fighters, RTS
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haha, oh, wow.
Posted: Nov 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by mrmastodon32690
You are highly over generalizing everything, because you are obviously biased towards Japanese gaming. I can, and do, have appreciation for games, regardless of what culture it comes from, and see this mas stereotyping of American and European games as crass and undeserved.
That being said, the best game of the year so far, in my opinion is a 'high fantasy RPG, that is gameplay and innovation centric'.
it is not Japanese. it is Polish.
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Nope.
Posted: Nov 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by Sablicious
Most Japanese games are geared towards otaku vurgins who get off on cosplay and / or kiddy fiddlers. I'm far from some one-eyed weeaboo.
Try again.
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"Cultural Differences" is code for "I'm a racist"
Posted: Nov 28, 2011 12:00AM PST by gx240
You need to tell Nintendo that American gamers are too insular to play Japanese games, because they obviously haven't heard. They need to begin recalling all those tens of millions of Mario and Zelda games they sell every year, since US gamers aren't enjoying them apparently.
Seriously though, yes, you're a weeaboo posting half baked racist nonsense. There are Japanese developers that are very successful in the US. If game developers and their customers were driven by the same racism that you are, then that wouldn't be true.
(Oh and I love how you accuse US developers of "rehashing" game models. Remind me again, how many Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest games have been released? Like 72 or something?)
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This is writing.
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 12:00AM PST by falcon_spawn
In reading this, I have (hopefully) learned more about Japanese people in general, and Japanese video-gamers in specific. The piece was not information overload but presented with learning in mind. Thanks to you, Mr. Winterhalter, for another high-quality article.
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American vs. Japanese
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 12:00AM PST by ExteriorKnight
American gaming tends to be biased and they try to turn the gamers against other countries. Call of duty modern warfare 1,2, and 3 are making players believe that real countries are way more terrible than they actually are in real life. COD uses real history and puts a skew on reality in it, making people think it really happened or that that is what those regimes/countries are intending to do.In my opinion if someone is going to make a game about war, instead of putting actual countries names in and showing real geography, they should just make up a new world or even a dimention. Games are supposed to be creative, what is so creative about america and russia fighting for the fiftieth time? They could have easily made halo take place in modern times, but they didn't they made it about the future and it was against a fictional race (as far as we know...) I'm done rambling and as you can already tell COD sucks in my opinion
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i agree!
Posted: Nov 20, 2012 12:00AM PST by guste1v0
i feel like games made by sony and microsoft are more like interactive movies than games seriously i find those games easy and lazy if it werent for the online theyd be pointless to play i play halo 4 and the campaign was pretty easy nothing thumb aching till i got to the online matches but i still find it a lot better and the storyline in all the halos is just plain awesome and you can see the difference in gameplay in each one COD has the same guns perks in evry game the only thing they change (not even so much at this point) is the graphics and the campaign but honestly no one even buys COD for the campaign they buy it for the online gameplay which is dumb in my opinion since nothing much changed people buy it mostly out of the fear of not getting to play with a bunch of people and cos their characters are already at maximum lvl honestly dudes you dont have to buy a brand new game just start a new file
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Moe is not pronounced Moh-ay
Posted: Nov 05, 2011 12:00AM PST by MobiusPizza
Moe is not pronounced MOH-ay, it's Mor-eh. Mor as in More, and 'e' in Japanese is pronounced eh as the first e in elephant
It is a common misconception for westerners to pronounce Kamikaze as Chemi-Classy
It should be Kar-me-kar-ze with ze as near je in jelly
Also, Karaoke is not pronounced Kariokie , but ka-ra-okay
Japanese is a tonal language with distinct 'characters'. While it is hard to convey the tone with transliterations, it is important to prounounce the characters distinctly by grouping the sound correctly, instead of mashing up consonant and vowels one would pronounce English words. Usually except 'a' 'i' 'u' 'e' 'o' 'n' on their own and 'tsu', 'shi' all the characters transliterated have 2 letters, e.g. 'ka', 'ra', su'. So karaoke is broken up as ka-ra-o-ke.
It is interesting Japanese suffers this when trying to pronounce English words. They have to break them up in Japanese ways which makes Japanese people speak awful English.
For example, ice cream is A-i-su Ku-ri-i-mu.
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Some corrections/additions if I may
Posted: Nov 08, 2011 12:00AM PST by ceige
I like what you've tried to do here so don't take this as me trying to gun you down, but Japanese *isn't* a tonal language. Chinese, Vietnamese and Thai are tonal. Japanese and Korean are languages with pitch accent like Swedish (but different pitches). Japanese doesn't have *stress* though, which is what differentiates it the most from English, but not so much from French - stress being what makes the "a" in "planet" so much longer and stronger sounding. As a comparison, each syllable in Japanese is pronounced with equal stress, so rather than hearing "PLANet" you'd hear "plan net".
(Japanese also has CVCV syllable stucture, where "c" = consonant (b, d, r, h) and "v" = vowel, which is something some English words have, but something others don't (compare "kawazaki" (cvcvcvcv) with "glimpsted" (ccvccccc - the "e" isn't pronounced))).
Also, rhotic English speakers (Americans and Brits with the "rr" at the end of vowels) would pronounce "Mor-eh" wrong, but it's sort of hard to explain. "moh-eh" is the best I can think of, or "maw-eh", but American vowels once again stuff things up for a perfect English explanation. But to anyone interested, I would recommend listening to how Japanese a (aa), u (uu), i (ii), e (ei), o (ou)'s sound - they're always the same (except i and u who can be slurred over), no matter what the word.
Mind you though, trying to pronounce "karaoke" as "kah-rah-oh-keh" in English gets you strange looks, since the English version should never be pronounced that way - I've learnt that the hard way from trying to pronounce Japanese words "faithfully" in English, gets messy!
Anyway, my main point is that "Moh-eh" is probably the best way to explain the pronounciation to an American/Brit/Australian who doesn't plan on speaking Japanese seriously, at least better than "mow" ;)
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A Female Gamer's Perspective
Posted: Nov 05, 2011 12:00AM PST by Oni_no_Tenshi
I am tired of the gray/puke/silver/black color scheme of most American made games. Other than Ilo Milo, Stacking and a handful of original titles that I absolutely love, most of the American console gaming market is saturated with war games and FPS crap and that is terrible. As a woman who works and has a family with young children, I spend most of my gaming time on handheld (PSP or DS lite). I don't enjoy gimmicky games-I love stuff that is simple, intuitive, and fun. I am a huge fan of the Disgaea series, which is one of the only SRPGs that is addictive and fun as hell, and other than that, 99% of the games that I play for handheld started out in Japan. From Pokemon Soulsilver to Professor Layton, or Trace Memory, which actually had a capable and interesting female character who wasn't just some vapid bimbo or ice-queen bitch was one of the reasons that I enjoyed my choice a lot more.
Most American-made games are either the "big" titles that are targeted towards single, frat-boy and nerdy-type men who have no manners and a lot of pent up anger, so they want to shoot and kill things in bloody and graphic ways, or they're rip-off BS licensed titles that totally suck. Of course then you have the rip-off clone games too, but I don't really count them as "games" as much as money mines for the uninitiated game purchaser.
Sure there is crap that comes out in Japan, but they come up with a lot of really amazing stuff. For example, ZHP: Unlosing Ranger, where you can switch out your body parts, or Etrian Odyssey, which built upon itself in each incarnation. Then you have Luminous Arc, Phantom Hourglass, Digimon World, and Pokemon Trozei.
There is no contest when it comes to games that I want to play. I enjoy the cute asthetic, bright pleasing colors and characters that involve cute females (as I am a female and I like cute characters to play as instead of just the grizzled space marine or the dumb generic soldier character).
I would also like less games that involve shooting guns. I know how to shoot real guns in real life, and it's not a "fun" thing to do-it's a skill but I certainly do not get my jollies by shooting people in the virutal world or the real world. My husband loves FPS games, and it disheartens me every time I have to listen to the "warzone" noises. Sure, they're fake guns, but having to listen to ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatata in various combinations for hours drives me mad.
My two cents is that there is an "American gaming consumer" that I do not identify with. The gaming community in the US seems to have a very clear "Screw you" attitude towards female gamers (and no, I don't want to play a game about going to the mall or putting on make up-and I absolutely detest Facebook games and The Sims). I am tired of picking the scraps from the garbage of the video game industry and hoping that some scrap has something that I actually want to play. I am kinda considering just learning how to read Japanese so I can play Japanese games that I will enjoy at least 200% more because they're the sorts of games that I *want* to play.-
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It is no coincidence
Posted: Nov 05, 2011 12:00AM PST by StarOcean3
that you play DS and PSP games more this time around because the best games are on these two .
It is for the best anyway because as we get older we have less time to game and these two devises are much better than ios or android games although I found emulation of classic games on android to be cool but the laws in the USA could ruin my life for ever if they found them in my devise and that is why I am formatting it before I come to america for my masters degree.
Btw, my wife and kids enjoy xbox live arcade and indie very much and they have 100+ demos for free so they are never bored but I sometimes get them the sonics and other games when there is discount.
Anyway ,JRPGS FTW
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Well, each to their own!
Posted: Nov 08, 2011 12:00AM PST by ceige
I'm glad you enjoy Japanese video games because they're pure gold, but I don't think it's necessarily conducive to slag off western war games at the same time :(
I like to consider myself a man of many tastes - I like FPSs like every man and his dog and his dog's goldfish (to combine several australian phrases), but I like my JRPGs (Disgaea, Valkyria Chronicles), my Monster Hunter, my Sonic, my Dead Space (which sorta fits in with the FPS camp), and some gems like Okami, and then there's also my pet obsession with jet-fighter games even though there's sweat and tears over them every time I play them.
Now, while I won't deny there's definitely "frat boys with pent up testosterone", although I prefer "wankers", much simpler term, who are being targeted, or more importantly who are buying these games, the fact is they aren't the main target I don't think - really, they just buy whatever everyone else is buying to look cool and be part of the crowd. They also tend to like their sports and racing games too, and they're hardly targeted towards mannerless pre30's drunkards ;). And sure there's a lot of immature people playing these games especially on the net with either no sense of inhibition about what they say, or bully-boy mentalities, or lack of comprehension of the female gamer. But I think it's a bit unfair to allude to these people being the majority - there's a lot of mellow people out there who are nice and just enjoy games, shoot-em-up or not. They're hard to notice though when there's a couple of loudmouthed teenagers abusing the mic-chat though, but they are there.
As for guns, well, they're not really commonplace things in Australia so I can't comment on how to use one or the skill. But it's a fun hand-eye coordination workout to play shooter games provided you don't play them non-stop ;)
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QFT
Posted: Nov 11, 2011 12:00AM PST by Sablicious
"most of the American console gaming market is saturated with war games and FPS crap and that is terrible"
Terrible; yes. With an underlying purpose; most definitely.
The US pushes shallow fail-person shovelware. Chinese games have the US as the 'enemy'. These are not conincidences.
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....but not quite true.
Posted: Nov 24, 2011 12:00AM PST by Captain_Sandwich
There are as many types of games coimng out in America as there are anywhere else, if not more. Where most Americans might get disenfranchised with domestic games is misconstruing the heavy marketing of celebrated gory/military FPS/TPS as all that American gamers care about.
From what I understand, Skyrim is beating out Modern Warfare 3 on Steam, and it's more and more common to look at an XBox Live or PSN friends list and see people not playing CoD or Gears. I didn't care about Gears until I saw 3 presented at E3. Then I got into the series and ended up becoming a fan...but I also play Guardian Heroes on XBL, loved Xenoblade Saga, enjoy Puzzle Fighter, and am loving the hell out of my late Mass Effect 1 & 2 playthroughs.
Remember. developers in all regions of the world are trying different things. Why this may not seem to be the case could be that you're frequently subjected to the advertising of just a few large houses. When a house strikes it big, they're expected to ride the gravy train and churn out sequels, of which a majority of beloved IPs end up overwhored and tired (Halo, Assassin's Creed, Mortal Kombat, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Resident Evil).
It's not really fair to shit on our own fanbases like that, especially if you don't play games you don't like with people you don't know. I never play CoD or Gears online. I find real-life friends or like minded players online by playing games that don't revolve around a fragfest-type of gameplay. I'll find cool people in games like Borderlands, Rainbow Six Vegas 2, Castlevania HD, Guardian Heroes, Castle Crashers, etc.
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Couldn't have said it better myself
Posted: Dec 06, 2011 12:00AM PST by Serena-hime
I agree with you 100%! I can't stand the American gaming market. All of my favorite gaming series are from Japan. I have two games that I really like from America. That's it. I want games that include a STORY...something that can be considered a work of art. I want charming characters, great music and fun gameplay. Something that challenges your wits and skill. Games that emotionally move me and inspire me!
All the things that FPS do NOT provide. I was looking at a wikipedia article about the top selling games since the NES era. It was very depressing. It went from awesome games in the past and slowly moved to crappy games. Games like Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto.The GOOD games that come to America from Japan, usually get ignored. Ace Attorney is a good example. It's one of my top favorite series. But only a tiny quarter of the American gaming population gives a sh**. Same with Ghost Trick. It was an AMAZING game. One I had to play through twice because I loved it so much! I don't usually do that either.
Professor Layton is another series I love. It seems to be doing fairly well, luckily.
I'm so sick and tired of seeing nothing but FPS and casual gamer crap on the shelves. I hate football and any kind of sports game, so I don't want to play any Madden crap. I don't want to play wheel of fortune on my Wii. Nor do I want to play America's Next Top Model OR some crappy game that America thinks gamer girls will love! Like the imagine series! I love Nintendo, but it's fallen into casual gaming. The few redeaming features it has is The Legend of Zelda and Mario.As a girl gamer myself, who has to live with cousins who cry that HALOZ IS DA BESTEST GAEM EVAR!!11!!1 all the time, if I could move to Japan JUST so I don't have to deal with the American gaming industry, I would do it in a heartbeat.
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Japan & the West
Posted: Nov 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by Suguler
Remember when Sega made innovative games? How many of those games actually sold well in the West, though? The truth is that games like Shenmue, Jet Set Radio, Shadow of the Colossus, Chibi Robo, Animal Crossing, Phoenix Wright, Hotel Dusk, and many others, have, despite being hugely innovative, not sold well. In fact, what happens is that a Japanese game innovates, is ignored in the West (and also Japan, it must be said), and then its ideas and concepts are copied by Western developers, whereupon the Western games are held up as examples of innovation, when they are not. Some examples: Herzog Zwei was largely ignored, then Command & Conquer immitated it and got all the kudos. Shenmue, a completely revolutionary game on its release, was pretty much ignored. A decade later, Heavy Rain, LA Noire, and even Assassins Creed draw heavily upon Shenmue's concepts. Jet Set Radio, another gem which got the cold shoulder, was ripped off by a flood of Western cel-shaded games. Personally, I think Street Fighter IV and Virtua Fighter 5 wipe the floor with Mortal Kombat, in terms of game design and substance. The best game to come out of the West in recent years has been an independent Swedish game. Western companies do take risks; Assassins Creed was a huge risk for Ubisoft and it paid off. As for JRPGs all being the same, there's certainly truth in that, but how's about Panzer Dragoon Saga, and what about Phantasy Star 2, which had an ending far more original than anything you'll find in a Western RPG. The World Ends With You on the DS is a brilliant, hugely underrated RPG. I find the grittiness of Western games actually very cliche, it makes the mistake of equating "dark" with "edgy". The Japanese understand that videogames ar emeant to be FUN, that they are escapist entertainment. I don't want to see Konami, Squeenix, and Capcom go the same way as Sega. Sega have, with a few exceptions, now become nothing more than a publisher, and lost almost all their internal talent (Yu Suzuki, Tetsuya Mizaguchi, Noriyoshi Oba, Yuji Naka, Shun Arai), its now an faceless company which just sells other people's games. That's the direction I don't wnat to see Japan's games industry go in.
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thats too bad.
Posted: Nov 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by naroyto
people are just so use to brainless shooter games that they can't appreciate nor have the mental capabilities to play any other genre that isn’t just point and shoot. Oh well…
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Yeah it is too bad... for you
Posted: Nov 24, 2011 12:00AM PST by Kel_Nex
obviously you're more towards the eastern gaming market.
You're right and wrong.
Eastern games are on the shelves in america. American FPS and action games are so popular in america because they are short, surprising and give you a slice of the action life that you probably never will experience EVER but really want to! This is perfect for the average american citizen with a full time job and bills to pay. Something short and sweet to play before you rush off to work.
Eastern games are like that too but they involve too much story, too much hours...eastern games are built and made for people who have ALOT of time on their hands. What type of person has the most time to do absolutely nothing other than hobos?.... DRUM ROLL PLEEASEE BADADADADADA...BOOM! KIDS!!They ask to see your ID when you buy most action gore filled games in America before purchase, that's a clear sign that the western games aren't intended for kids.
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japanese games are so hardcore and i like them so much.
Posted: Nov 01, 2011 12:00AM PST by pourya
the real cause that most of western gamers do not like japanese games is that these games are so hard and long.you must play hours and hours to finish them.i am playing BLUEDRAGON and LOST ODYSSEY over 500h.
i like them and i am so angry that most of japanese games are going to be so easy.
i like the west1s games for gameplay,graphices and politices and japanese for story and length of playing.
i like all hardcore games.-
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They don't have to be
Posted: Nov 25, 2011 12:00AM PST by Captain_Sandwich
There are almost no games that require over 100h of play. The last big title to require this extraordinary length was Dragon Quest 7, I believe.
Nearly any WRPG can be drilled out in under 20 hours, and JRPGs in under 60. Final Fantasy X was in reality only 40.
Because you are "hardcore" does not make the games you play "hardcore". In fact, any normal person would just call that OCD...gamers have a nice term for it though - completionist. Don't take it as a knock, dude, I do the same thing, but I understand that I'm taking way more time than I need to instead of finishing the damn games. It's cool though.
Outstanding unfinished titles/play times:
(PS2)Final Fantasy XII: 320hrs. Characters in the 76-84 level range
(PS2)Wild Arms III: ~200hrs. Characters Lv.96-98
(Wii)Xenoblade Chronicles: 230hrs. Characters Lv.98 average
(PS1)Breath of Fire 4: 110hrs.
* * *
Finished and still playing - (PS1)Xenogears:
First playthrough - 300+hrs. Characters Lv.99. Memory card was put through the wash.
Second playthrough - timer capped at 999:59:59, and I still play a few days each year. Haven't found maximum character stat values. Fei kills Seraphs in 2 attacks with his bare hands. Probably earned over 1 billion gold in Drives for my characters. Chu Chu is actually a viable attacker in my game.
Any average JRPG is built to be beatable at level 65 or 70. You're just going overboard XD
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Jrpgs ftw
Posted: Oct 31, 2011 12:00AM PST by StarOcean3
I still love final fantasy and dragon quest and I realy miss the good old days of ps1 rpgs like legend of dragoon and I consider lost odyssy and blue dragon the best games on 360 but I cant hide my love for metal gear and halo and gears but I just hate wetern rpgs because of lousy stories .
And on a side note , anime and manga when choosing great ones like D gray man , are better than any movie or cartoon or whatever.
I just thought I'd through my two cents here so tadalo everyone ^_^.
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You are victims of the Media even in Videogames
Posted: Oct 30, 2011 12:00AM PST by heroicstar
I am one of those that grew up playing console games like Mario Bros, Zelda, Megaman, etc and after 10 years of not playing console games (I played some mmos). I find it terrible and sad that shooters simulating wars like COD, Battlefield, (and there are a lot more war games) are the dominant games on the market. This one game coming out in a few days is called MW3 (WW3!) and highlights terrorists trailers on real world escenarios.
You must realize the message this is sending to your children, the community and the world in general. These memories get implanted into your brains to love war. These are not games for childrens, adults either.
It is not a thing like in the west we have more marines and in the east we have more emo kids. It is the fact that you are conditioned to love war since you are young.
Im not a saint. I have played violent games as well during my childhood but I find these games where you kill virtual humans in a war scenario really terrible and should be totally forbidden.
Also, I wanted to buy some games lately and the ratings american websites give to other games with a different style and mentality (japanese games) really low and bad scores.
Who is going to buy a game when you see such a low rating. I would like to see people that "do" like these different types of games to write the reviews and not some westernized cod fanboy to ruin other games for us.
It would not surprised me if japan stops exporting their games.
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I agree
Posted: Oct 30, 2011 12:00AM PST by Necrojesta
I really don't like the concept of playing a war game and I don't like the idea of mainstream games making war out to be fun. I find myself quite limited if I even go to a store to buy a game since a large portion of the shelves are filled with CoD and the unique and actually enjoyable games are limited to a few copies.
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You're not alone.
Posted: Oct 31, 2011 12:00AM PST by Starknight
I agree with you in this. Enough of War praise!
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Well....
Posted: Nov 24, 2011 12:00AM PST by Kel_Nex
If you don't like don't buy.
I get your message that the media is brainwashing people, message recieved. But dude, it's up to people for themselves to find this out and make a choice to fall in line or step out. Don't scream out abuncha nutty conspiracy crap, you're scaring the hell out of people.
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It's kind of about aesthetics...
Posted: Oct 24, 2011 12:00AM PST by CrimpSoup86
While the article overall brought up some interesting points, they failed to touch upon what cultural habits might have been developing over here in the States that influences which games are more likely to make it big.
To me, the effects of our post 9/11 fear-culture has had a huge impact on what types of video games people readily buy. This month we will see Battlefield 3, Modern Warfare 3, and countless other mature franchises centered primarily upon violence. Even a game like Skyrim can be cast in a similar light. In fact, if we were to look at this generation of video games and draw some aesthetic similarities across genres, some of the hallmarks would be: photo-realistic depictions of people and their actions (usually centered around killing) and colors that stay largely in the gritty earthtones (think Fallout, Gears of War, etc.) that are unnaturally contrasted and saturated. What does this way of depicting "false reality" say about the imaginations of Western people? Even worse, what is the social message we are sending by playing these games? It's no surprise to me that we are still involved in two wars as the reciprocity between the average video game player and the economic elite of this country is disintegrating; all the while we are focused on how many games we're going to need to budget for in November. I don't really mean to make it a political issue, but it kind of is, especcially since many games are first person shooters...
While Moe might be a symptom of a larger social problem in Japan, these "Western Blockbusters" can be seen as an equally disturbing, unfortunately less inclusive (these games are much more popular among Westerners than "moe" would be to the average Japanese person, afterall) fascination with violent behaviour and a pseudo-realism. I'm not saying that the Japanese don't have their fare share of violent video game content, or that they don't live vicariously through their gaming. In fact, the Japanese may be indulging a different form of escapism (moe), but the impulse that Westerners wish to indulge in their video gaming appears much more disturbing, if not because this behaviour seems much more widespread (anyone who deals in any sort of social services can probably attest to this), but is also tied to national/international issues.
Just some food for thought.
-CrimpSoup86
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Disturbing.
Posted: Oct 27, 2011 12:00AM PST by Runeforged
I agree that it is not a good thing that humans get their jollies by killing virtual people. Thats probaly NOT how we should be living. That said i love to. Anyways what i find much more disturbing is the Japanese obsession for sex/rape with and of little anime kids. Awhile back there was a stats report of most bought manga/anime in japan. Most disturbingly, it was Hentai featuring, among others, a 12 year old girl getting raped and killed by a giant dong.
I think this fact is far more disturbing then westerners obsession with shooting things. Japan at first look is conservative. Dig deeper there is some disgusting things going on. Not to say we aint guilty of some sickness of our own.
My point being whats more disturbing then the fact that the aforementions anime rape of little girls exists? The fact that there is a huge market for it.
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nope
Posted: Oct 30, 2011 12:00AM PST by noodlezombie
I registered an account solely to respond to this. Your post is a perfect example of a huge misconception many people have about Japan, that being the issue of their hentai industry. I constantly see people saying things to the effect of "Japan must be a country of perverts, I mean, look at all the tentacle porn!". And yes, a huge amount of that kind of hentai is produced on a regular basis, but what you have to understand is that the vast, vast majority of it comes from one place: Akihabara. It's actually quite a small industry that makes its profits from selling to one niche consumer base that buys a lot of stuff.
And the reason it has gotten away with a lot of the stuff it produces is because it's essentially unregulated. For a long time the Japanese general public wasn't even aware of its existence. That changed not long ago when various internatuional groups started protesting the game RapeLay, and the banning of the game and the creation of guidelines for future sex games were the result of the Japanese media covering the protests which in turn revealed to the moral majority the existence of an entire subculure they were only dimly aware of at best.
Once you realize that most of that stuff comes from one place and that the average Japanese doesn't buy and read loli rape scat doujin (or whatever), your perception of the entire country changes pretty radically.
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nope back...
Posted: Nov 24, 2011 12:00AM PST by Kel_Nex
dude that doesn't change the fact that THOUSANDS probably MILLIONS in japan are still buying it. I find it stupid that when japan is called a pervert nation everyone gets out of control about misconceptions and bullshit but when america is called a nation of ignorant fools and we get upset about it, the rest of the world just shrugs.
people are fucking incredible :P (I mean that with the most sarcasm)
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wow
Posted: Oct 23, 2011 12:00AM PST by ownzu07
This article seemed like a waste. Well, if they want to say our games are ass then go for it. The truth is that their games suck balls. I haven't seen hardly anything good come from them besides metal gear solid and before that was a dragon ball game for my ps1 lol. Suck on deez nuts japan, you can keep everything...except gundam. I like gundam. That's mine lol.
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japan still makes better games than the aaa croud of shooters.
Posted: Oct 22, 2011 12:00AM PST by quintison
Well i prefer the likes of rouge galaxy,disgaea,valkyria chronicles,okami,team ico to another mindless uninspired shooter and the games i mentioned i always use japanese audio and english subs.
Anime is great and the more japan sends our way the better.
I play aaa level games but would prefer the last guardian to another cod,original concepts,humor,depth of character are qualitys adrenile filled shooters lack completelly. Between bf3,mw3 and uncharted 3 if i could only have 1 it'd be uncharted 3 which has story,humor and depth to spare,how many evil terrorists can you kill before they all mesh together?!
I hope to see more jrpg's @ lest on vita and 3ds but i would consider it a black day if they never pass this way again on consoles....a true tragity.
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So moe and social stigma is to blame?
Posted: Oct 18, 2011 12:00AM PST by frootlooped22
In the time that it took to go from PS2/Xbox/GCN to wii/ps3/360 (approx 5-6 years) moe and social stigma doomed the JP market? That doesn't seem to make sense
In all honesty, the move to the HD era seems to be at bigger fault. Gaming became more expensive. New consoles were few 100s of dollars more than the previous gen (remmeber when people flipped when PS2 was 300?), you needed an HDTV to enjoy the games in full (you could use your old SDtvs to enjoy everything from NES-Dreamcast back in the day), DLC is a common practice, etc
Now the risks become that much higher and while tons of Western developers like to use and reuse engines like Unreal 3, alot of JP developers don't and make their own engines like MT Framework by Capcom or Crystal Tools by Square which costs more money. Not to mention HD games need more staff, more money and more time to make. Which means they need to sell more to become profitable.
That's why so many developers are outsourcing to the west. That and people seem to obsess over realistic styled games. Fuck even Arkham Asylum went for that meaty beefcake super soldier look a la Gears instead of something more artsy fartsy and "comic booky". Which is fine but there still needs to be some diversity. It's bad enough that so many games copy off each other in gameplay but style too? That just makes things worst.-
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Just Nitpicking Your Statement
Posted: Oct 19, 2011 12:00AM PST by TenguNose
Arkham Asylum went all comic booky, not Gears of Wars-y. Comic books had meaty beefcake heroes long before the concept of Gears of War existed.
Take a look at the cover of Jerry Bingham's "Batman: Son of the Demon" from 1987. That predates Gears by what, 19 years and it's one of many Batman comic examples the game must have taken from.
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I agree
Posted: Oct 27, 2011 12:00AM PST by Mainkai
"...you needed an HDTV to enjoy the games in full..."
And let's not forget that video games in Japan tend to be played in the rooms of teenagers on a smaller television; space is rare and very few have the kind of giant cinema-like setup that many of the westerners enjoy.
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The game has changed!
Posted: Oct 18, 2011 12:00AM PST by The1trugamer
That article wasted 5 minutes of my life. It said all of that to say this, there are cultural differences and tastes. I have lived in Japan for years while stationed in the military and the xenophobia is real. They think their products are superior and western products are inferior, and they WILL NOT let a foreign product succeed if they can help it. Japanese games are the reason why I still love gaming to this day! I literally grew up playing their games. However, the Japanese games industry had it's run and all this has changed with the Xbox, 3D, and the PC Dev! While the Xbox is not doing well in Japan, it's a western console. Before that, everything came out of Japan...everything! They cornered the market on every genre from sports to racing, fighting, platform, flying and RPGs, now that is not so. Western games have caught up and surpassed Japanese games in sheer scale and visual beauty. We are seeing things that we have not seen on consoles before, and it's all coming out of the west. You will not see a Gear of War 3, MW3, BF3, Batman: Arkham city, God of War 3 (whom I believe copied Devil May Cry, but smokes it) Skyrim, Red Dead Redemtion, ect come out of Japan. You'll get Final Fantasy (RPG), assorted fighting games (from Capcom and Namco), Gran Turismo (racing), a cutesy platformer like Mario and Sonic, and Metal Gear and thats about it. Those are all sequels there is nothing new or exciting coming out of Japan. Not only our tastes vary, but our ability to produce what we want has changed the game forever, western games rule.
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lol u srs
Posted: Oct 18, 2011 12:00AM PST by frootlooped22
The only thing GOW trumps DMC and NG and Bayonetta on is the story/presentation level. Gameplay wise GOW's system is stiff as fuck. Even its combo MAD videos are slow and stale as hell vs the others.
Not to mention all the titles you mentioned coming from the west are sequels as well.
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Not so one sided
Posted: Oct 18, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
I'm sure there's truth about the xenophobia in Japan but I'm also sure there are good open minded Japanese people willing to give new things a chance. Describing things in absolutes never gives a viewing window into the whole situation. Besides,our culture is rather "xenophobic" and "elitist" itself.
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I like Janapanese games and Western games!
Posted: Oct 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Queenisjusttooawesome
I'm just happy that there are still awesome games being made like Zelda, Okami, No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle, Resident Evil, Metroid, Mario, Batman Arkham City, Tatsunoko Vs Capcom, Smash Brothers Brawl, and many others!
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Just wait...
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by sadz4u
Jap games are amazing...it's just that the amazingness comes in short bursts...and btw jrpg's arent the only thing japan has to offer...let's not forget the resident evil series which includes one of the best games of all time, RE4, and also the fighting games like soulcaliber or streetfighter...there are good ones, u just have to wait for them to come out...like i said, short bursts. :D
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Make what you like and if it sells, great... If not... I don't know. :(
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by nibble4bits
You pretty much can't create anything great using (just) a formula. If I'm told to produce a level in a game that appeals to players of Super Mario World, I can't really come up with something like Super Metroid and especially not Secret of Evermore! That's a real example from just one system. Is it me, or do most games now seem to be "hey, it's another game with a new story, straight-as-razor linear path, and just a slightly different interface - yay!" variety? A lack of demos to find out if the gameplay for many games makes me sad. :( Then again, there was Fallout 3 and Supreme Commander, which by definition were 'formula' games that seemed to be pretty good. And yes, I'm aware that those are western games.
You take a risk by publishing a game that's unique because stores might refuse to carry it. I remember how Metroid for the NES was really popular in the USA, but not quite as much elsewhere. It almost didn't get released here! Then wouldn't you know it, they released a SNES version that was one of the most fun games on that system that I've ever played. It was greatly polished, as well. I remember how there were very few bugs and you could still do some of the (cheating) shortcuts from the NES. The original game had that by accident and was an original game, but the SNES sequel was essentially a greatly improved game even though many sequels fall flat. For me, that game was better than the original. The only thing I missed was the spider ball from the Gameboy version. It was not much of a loss though, since the game had configurable powerups and weird unobvious ways to combine them. I'd say undocumented, but it was more a guide-dang-it that you can charge your primary weapon and make your power bomb do neat stuff. At least they didn't make a puzzle where you had to know how to do that to get to an area. You can in fact do 50% of the blocks on your map screen and still beat the game!
Now here's the 2 big problems... How do you know if you should do a sequel and if you should, when have you jumped the shark(too many)? Also, how do you know if your original game concept will even sell? It's literally impossible until you bring it to market and by then the money has been spent and you might as well try to get as much back as possible. It's rare that a completed game will not be sold, although I've seen a few companies fail due to bankruptcy when they gambled on a new game. If you rely too much on testing(pre-market research), then you will overlook some very profitable franchises. Common sense seems to indicate that a good compromise is to produce games that seem fun to play and then market the heck out of them until you can save up enough money to do something more risky. This is in fact what companies like PopCap did.
What works in one country will not always work in another. This is why the Japanese game companies are actually pretty wise to stick to an audience they more easily relate to, so that they produce games that people will actually buy. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't hire or collaborate with foreigners to release games that will sell well off the island. Nothing ventured, nothing gained - this is the difference between millions and billions of dollars! I've seen companies that try to juggle too many projects, though. (Read: Apple computer, 1980s)
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hm...
Posted: Oct 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by legendary_fuzzhead
While I agree that a lot of Japanese games are kind of stagnant and...blah, I can't really enjoy a whole lot of western games because they're not nearly as fun to me. I'd rather save some magical tree than go around fighting aliens and whatnot or something like that. I dunno, I guess to me Japanese games are just more fun. :/
As for the article itself, it was very intriguing in my opinion. :)
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Moe were to start.
Posted: Oct 07, 2011 12:00AM PST by metalworks1449
He isn't far off on the whole moe concept but well.........my freind TV tropes can explaind better than I can.
I hope this helps.
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Wow, well that was eye opening...
Posted: Oct 06, 2011 12:00AM PST by AshenEcho
I feel like this sums up my gaming tastes and how they have changed in the last ten years. I started out playing a lot of JRPGs and the like, but as I've gotten older I went from Nintendo consoles to an Xbox 360 without looking back. I've gone from playing Tales of Symphonia on the Game Cube or Pokemon on my DS to playing FPS titles and BioWare RPGs on my 360. I just never took notice of it until now.
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The mistaken impression...
Posted: Oct 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by HikaruFox
...that Westerners think that Loli and Moe are the same thing is a bit rough on the part of the author, and a bit too favorable to Japan.
Am I the one who mentioned the two in the same sentence in the "Why the Japanese industry is dying" discussion? Yes. But that doesn't mean I think they're the same. It just means I think that Japanese designers rely too much on Loli (or psuedo-Loli, where the character looks underage, but is actually 300 years old because she's a vampire or a demon) to try to set a Moe theme (Touhou, Ar Tornelico, etc.). It's more than just a little bit creepy in my eyes. Some companies (St!ng, for example) drew their adult characters with the "Moe" style eyes that you see in a lot of "schoolgirl" anime/games, but didn't try to make them look like children.
Where the Japanese industry is sitting is that they'd rather have a tiny group of "guaranteed" sales with the Loli and Moe Otaku, even if it creeps out or alienates a large number of Western gamers (ie : most of the ones who aren't Japanophiles), and be completely beholden to them, than put out something out of that mold, which might turn their loyal Otaku crowd against them.
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Meh
Posted: Oct 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by sj420
They don't creep me out or alienate me with that, they do it by ruining good IP's with how horribly they handle them. I mean come on, who else could take something as amazing as Final Fantasy IP or Front Mission IP and then within the same decade or two completely mutilate it entirely? The japanese! I'm not even going to bother going into detail because the information is out there do the research, I'm also not going to waste the effort in explaining because really there is no reason to do so. Too many thousands of creative projects that just never had a chance because of how poorly they were handled by suits, not even mentioning (what millions?) of games that did get released and butchered.
With business practices like that, no wonder they are bleeding out and no one cares to bandage them. With the way they have treated foreign markets I wouldn't piss on them to put them out if they were on fire, to put it simply they probably share the same sentiment. Trust me, it pains me to say such things because I have had such a true love of japan for so long but in the past few years my eyes have been opened more and more to the truth that even though they will treat you well they really just wish ill upon you for no reason other then your nationality, even if you don't even like your own nationality they are still predisposed against you. Makes it 'suck' to not be born there, because then you are forever an outcast no matter what. On the other hand atleast I care more about my "Living" than "Working". People dying over there from over-working, that's ridiculous and I couldn't even think of doing such a thing myself. If ever I were to work myself to death it would be with a rifle in my hand and on a battlefield, not in an officespace. One thing I wouldn't mind them sharing is their education system(atleast math), the world needs it! People are dumber than ever these days and their kids are doing math our 12th graders can't do - on a daily basis.
I guess I kind of take more offense because I see more of a whole, instead of a bunch of seperate countries I see the entire human race as a whole - Earthlings. We need to all unite and toss aside such simplistic and arrogant mannerisms. Imagine if everyone could just work together instead of having predispositions against others that automatically make them disregard each other, we would be living in a futuristic world that didn't even require currency or a ranks/caste - you are poor I am rich type of mentality that comes with stupid currency. I know all of this is just dreaming, too much to ask of you subhuman apes, but I can dream and I will.
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Moe = Loli
Posted: Oct 10, 2011 12:00AM PST by prince_david
But it IS the same thing. These characters are designed to resemble little girls.
1 + 1 = ?
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Ryan Is Top Tier
Posted: Oct 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by Bboy_Izilla
I read an article on Dtoid months back that almost got it right. Something I've been trying to focus my writing on is how the gaming community and the games industry are so tightly bound that one can't move without the other.
Japan has been draped in so much tradition, espcially in regards to their game design, that it totally makes sense for things to evolve as they have. I want to be upset, but I'm honestly kinda okay with it too.
I just don't want to see anymore Quantum Theory's. The pale imitations of Japanese developers 'guessing' what the rest of the world wants comes off as, well, kinda insulting [see also: RE 5...though I kinda liked it].
I think the indie scene will bring new ideas and a new audience...as it always has.
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Hmfp.
Posted: Oct 01, 2011 12:00AM PST by sj420
" They're making games that they know will sell to their audience in Japan."
Ahh, I see, playing it safe.
Imagine what the world would be like if no one ever took any chances, hell I bet we wouldn't even exist.
All I can say to japan is that this is not the right mindset for progressing into the future, if that's what they intend to do.
If bushido is only experienced in death, how do you think they would have ever created or followed that belief if they always played it safe? I think they have been blinded and lost their connection to their true traditions.
Yen isn't a tradition; Strength is, honor, pride. Where did That japan go?
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Tradition?
Posted: Oct 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by Captain_Sandwich
Japan has also had a tradition of isolationism. Aside from the occasional occupation of China, Korea and a World War, I don't remember hearing about them doing much to get along with other countries as a nation.
It's funny to me that things are like that, but no one's supposed to "stand out" or "rock the boat" in group settings. We had a similar period in America - the 50s. Good times. :P
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meh
Posted: Oct 02, 2011 12:00AM PST by sj420
It's only fond when looking back on it and recalling. Take a look at that actual period in history, womens rights, still fighting about skin tone, great depression.
It's never as great as one tends to remember it being. Also don't count out the fact that pretty much every country (except newly founded/recently fought for independance/etc) is older then america by hundreds of years, japan included. Yeah they are primarily isolated but thats because they live on an ISLAND.
They aren't as isolated now, with how they have sent out their citizens to other countries to experience them. My real and only point was that currency is not a tradition for any country, you must have principles and values that are strong to withhold such a system. Basically what I am saying is that all the countries that only care about money should take a look back at how they got their first before they disregard the past and be doomed to repeat it again.
Until then we are all screwed, because Currency is not a tradition, currency is not a principle nor a value, it is not something you can hold morally high.
Until the worlds populous wants to once again side with real principles and values, we are totally screwed in every facet. All of us, every country and every earthling.
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Ahh, I see, playing it safe.
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by adidaas
Which is what EA, Activision, and Blizzard love to do as well. Japanese developers aren't the only one developing games appealing to their main audience. American devleopers are just at much fault as japan is. There are many who play it safe and go with what they know will work and have a great profit.
But, any company who's got a million dollar budget will be afraid to take risk, so you can't knock just japan. Atleast Capcom is putting out all the stops for Dragon's Dogma.
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I still like Jrpgs, but it's power over me has faded greatly this generation
Posted: Oct 01, 2011 12:00AM PST by GunnyMcSword
I can't remember a good console jrpg in a long time (not counting action/strategy rpgs as demon/dark souls, Valkyria, and Nier were quite good). But all was not lost it was just on the handhelds. Thank god for Xseed, atlus, and whoever else is involved with porting them over. As for the other Japanese developed games they pretty much are a mixed bag of quality depending on genre. Fighting games are still consistenly great with all those capcom fighters and namco to a lesser degree. Action games are decent with very few standouts like Bayonetta. Resident Evil 5 and Shadow of the Damned are exercises in tired mechanics. Not going into Racing since I don't play them.
Ah I remember the good ol days of SNES/PS/PS2 golden era of Japanese games never went too long without a good rpg to play.
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The rise of Western gaming >:O
Posted: Oct 01, 2011 12:00AM PST by ironblue
I blame it on the West. When I was a kid the only fun games were from Nintendo or an RPG (Which back then was like all JRPG's). Now with Western gaming so large there's just not as much room for Eastern games. Of course Mario, Final Fantasy (FFXIII sucks! >:O), etc. etc. are here to stay. Me personally I just haven't really had any interest in most Japanese games anymore too busy playing Western games. Alot of the kids that grew up on JRPG's and such have since moved on. Kids nowadays in gaming have so many Western titles they don't even know much about JRPG's and don't need them. There's still a place in my heart for JRPG's though. :o
I miss Ensemble Studios more than I miss JRPGS :I
Of course Japanese don't like Western games. They don't like anything not-Japanese! :P
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Realism vs. Style
Posted: Sep 30, 2011 12:00AM PST by aozf05
I think another reason for this schism (and I'm just speaking from an RPG standpoint cuz it seems to be the most popular genre there) is that western games have more emphasis on realism and really immersing the player into the game whereas the Japanese focus more on style and, in my opinion, wish-fulfillment. Many of them seem to hate our games because the main character is an "old guy," or not a teenager. For us, it's like "Duh, he's a trained soldier. That's why he can kick so much ass." They prefer a group of kids saving the world. We put more effort into realistic graphics and/or character customization a la Fallout or Mass Effect, they prefer anime style graphics and a static leveling system. Their characters get stronger by mindless leveling and ever better equips, we do it by making choices and divvying points among many stats or skills.
The Japanese are very set in their ways. From what I can tell, the JRPG hasn't evolved very much in terms of gameplay. Many JRPGs follow a tried-and-true formula, but with an added novel and usually gimmicky gameplay concept.
But I think all of this is just another result of the divergence between Japan and the West.
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But it *is* Realistic!
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by Tuor
'Their characters get stronger by mindless leveling and ever better equips'
That *is* realistic in Japan: as far as I can tell, the way Japanese climb the coporate ladder is by doing mindless tasks day after day in order to buy better equipment until they level up to the next rung on the ladder.Maybe those games are just preparing youngsters for the wonderful life of a Japanese salaryman. :P
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What does complaining solve?
Posted: Sep 24, 2011 12:00AM PST by kosmos_exaltseive
In many posts I've seen people state that Japanese games and Western made games have their ups and downs. I've also been seeinglots of hate between the two, I say does it even really matter?
Many people say games like Dragon Age 2 and Final Fantasy XIII suck major balls for many reasons.
Rpg's v.s shooter's have been getting hit hard with negative statements from both sides of the same dice.
I know there are many like me who doesn't care about weather or not a games creative or if the levels and control schemes are good or if the stories are deep, or seriously retared, we just love to play!
So everybody, anybody who's complaining about anything game related can just shut the F*** up and toss out all of their games and systems cause they aren't TRUE gamers. Real gamers play anything no matter how lame or awesome a game is and we don't complain about them either. This is not raggin on anyone, but listen....some of the most exciting games can tell a dumb story, some boring games can have great stories, just give them a chance and you'll find you like the game for what it is, not for what it lacks.
And the real problem facing Western and Eastern game companies and their respective audiences are lack of commitment and most importantly lack of cooperation with eachother, I'm sure that if they'd pool their ideas and supported eachother in whatever fields they lack we'd get some sweet games!
Exaltseiv out:)
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Interesting, but not entirely convincing
Posted: Sep 18, 2011 12:00AM PST by theshilid
I used to think that the jrpg was the gold standard of gaming excellence... in the late 90's there were some unbelievably captivating experiences to be had coming from overseas (Final Fantasy VII, Xenogears, Alundra, Vagrant Story), but after a while genre had really gotten stale (King's Field: The Ancient City was the only jrpg I had any fun with for most of the ps2's life span), and the first signs of death were hailed by the awful Final Fantasy X, which was a soulless, ridiculous tale in which the standout feature was an admittedly great graphical presentation... but everything else was recycled, ridiculous, or retarded. I mean, I had to wade through a sea of random battles, endless cutscenes, and a sports mini-game while playing as an androgenous blonde she-male in order to continue my journey to save the world from an evil whale who was my father from another world. That. Is. So. Stupid. It's the gaming equivalent to Star Wars: The Phantom Menace.
There was, however, a glimmer of hope towards the end of the ps2's life-cycle. The release of Valkyrie Profile 2 had an odd impact on me, as I found myself having fun with a jrpg for the first time since the release of FF X, despite a lack of a compelling narrative. The game was just fun to play. This trend was continued by the underappreciated and utterly addictive FF XII, which is one of my favorites in the series, once again despite the lack of a gripping story. Nowhere, though, was this more apparent than the sublimely delightful Dragon Quest VIII, which I consider to be the best rpg on the ps2, and one of the best rpg's ever -japanese or not- on any platform. It was such a soulful, fun, nostalgic experience that I willingly poured hours and hours into the game, merely because it was fun to play. After that, though, the genre seemingly declined into banality again, with only a few notable releases until 2009 (namely, Rogue Galaxy and Tales of Vesperia).
2009 saw the release of Demon's Souls, which is one of the best rpg's ever, on any platform. The thing is, Demon's Souls is actually a perfect convergence of Western and Eastern game design. It features a pretty familiar (yet wonderfully realized) medieval setting that we Westerners are familiar with, smooth controls, and fully real time battles... all of which are standard over here. Eastern influence rears its head, however, with the brutal difficulty, time investment requirement, and lack of hand holding throughout the game. The strange, melancholy, and lonely feeling also stems from its eastern origins, which is yet another reason the game sticks out over here.
I wish, so dearly, that other japanese developers would take note... Dark Souls is looking even more amazing, and games like Final Fantasy XIII-2 (what??) just don't seem to be taking the proper steps to stay current. Yes, maybe japanese games are as good as they've ever been, but that's like saying that Quake III is just as good as it was in 1999. Yeah, it is, but every other major first person shooter is superior in any number of ways, because time has moved on. The turn-based battle systems of early rpg's were designed with system limitations in mind, to simulate dramatic combat exchanges using weapons and magic on simplistic hardware. We don't need that anymore... we can just make it all happen, completely player controlled, in real time. Random battles need to go. Now.
I don't want to see japanese rpgs (or japanese games, in general) fail, but they really, really have some catching up to do. Sure, Call of Duty doesn't really feature any fine storytelling, and Gears of War isn't going to win over the hearts of gamers because of its script. Western storytelling generally isn't very good either (save for Mass Effect and a few other games), but at least the gameplay is good. I defy you to find any japanese shooter with as solid a feel as Call of Duty, or a jrpg with the accessible-yet-super-deep rpg mechanics of Fallout. Xenoblade is a lovely title, but unfortunately most US gamers will not be able to see it without being able to play an imported copy (so! lame!). Instead, we are left with games like the gorgeous but stupid FF XIII. Thanks, but no, thanks.
Like I said, though, Demon's Souls is a superlative experience that originated from Japan and it found a sizeable audience here in the US (I love the game to bits), and Dark Souls is poised to be even more successful. Also, Ni No Kuni is looking wonderful, and is something that is pretty much squarely Japanese in nature. However, on the whole, this article pretty much sums it up: Japanese games largely don't want to change. They are cooler than you, good enough without lots of fans, and will succeed by charging a higher price overseas to a nostalgic, loyal, and small fanbase, while not ever coming to our shores.
Way to aim high, guys. Natural selection is coming for you.
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Great Article!
Posted: Sep 17, 2011 12:00AM PST by zzppqq
I thought this article was very informative and interesting, and judging by all the comments here, a lot of others really liked it too.
I found most interesting the bit about moe. Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_publishers , i see a lot of the games I like are of Japanese origin (you do need to verify that the developer itself is japanese and not just the publisher, by the way), but one thing that's always been a little nauseating has been the superfluity of horribly innocent and defenseless lolis in them. Mostly, these stay out of mainstream games, but in games that are in full 2D rpg style, this tends to be really bad. Hearing that there's an explanation besides Japanese have perverse sexual practices is relieving, and I think it not hard to understand what it is that a particular teenage nerd demographic might enjoy about them. Another thing that's always stuck out about the loli games is that they seemed made for younger gamers. This article supports that idea in its claim that the japanese market is for younger gamers.
I don't have industry numbers, but my favorite games right now include Demon Souls, Bayonetta, and BlazBlue, so Japanese game culture suffering or dying seems a premature assessment. Maybe it's necessary to notice that games have become a lot more mainstream in the U.S. than they were ten or twenty years ago. With a different gamer demographic, it's only to be expected that certain types of games aren't going to do as well comparatively; testosterone junkies want to shoot guns.
Finally, I think that having non-conforming styles being published helps by providing new styles to inspire developers worldwide. If new ideas are considered too risky to make, our entertainments stagnate.
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This bodes ILL for USA JRPGers.
Posted: Sep 17, 2011 12:00AM PST by FreeRPGer
I'm into turned-based JRPGs heavily. While I tend to like "some" USA RPGs, not all of them caught my attention like Japanese ones did - some did, but not all. I am a part of Operation Rainfall, a petition to bring three JRPGs to the USA: Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower. I mean, Europe is getting the Xenoblade Chronicles, so why not the USA? And what about USA gamers who have the Xenosaga games and their stories in their minds. Now they wont get any of the spinoff? Cultural differences aside, this sucks, is what I say.
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Say no more...
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Dred0
This explains it. Need anyone say any more about the whole PS3 Vs 360 saga? It's just a culture thing. Plain and simple. Now ALL good fanboys can sleep peacefully knowing they are on the right side of the fence.
Seriuosly, though, this a really interesting article. Well done, 1Up.
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I prefer Japanese games
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Phoenixxx1974
I like fantasy turn based JRPGs and also the fun action 3rd person japanese RPG. I grew playing japanese games so it's what i like. There are some westernized games i like which seem to come mainly from insomniac games. Resistance is the only FPS i really enjoy.
I miss my turned based JRPGs and also miss my turn based strategy games like Advance Wars and the old Sega CD game Dark Wizard which is AWESOME, and Military Madness. No one makes them anymore.
I might as well learn japanese and just import them.
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Why does the West care?
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Zartan5000
We don't. Or rather we shouldn't. Jap games are "as good as ever" meaning they havnt changed one bit since the late 90s. It's the same stagnant andrgogynous characters running around fighting fantastically ludicris enemies and circumstances. Anime is dead as far as I'm concerned and it's not just me. We (westerners) like good games. Silly Pokemon and shemales running around with 10 ft. long swords are not cool. Maybe since Japs are catering to their own, they can stay the hell out of our MMOs with their incessant gold farming. RIP Jap games, we won't miss you.
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Western gaming industry is just as crappy
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Thundgot
You make it sound like western gaming industry make awesome AAA titles with storylines that have never been done before. While in reality this industry is so overrun with CoD clones and shitty games that it's not even funny anymore.
Oh yea, I do find some golden corns in both industries, most of it is shit either way though.
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We Will Miss Japanese Gaming
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Fairbanks
I think the West Will be Far Worse off without Japanese Translations and New Games.. If you are a 1st Person Shooter fan then you really wont miss Japanese Gaming.. We have way too many of them here in the West already.. I only play Role Playing Games and have completed most of them that are available here and a few imports we can run here.. Then there are games only going to European fans like Xenoblade {I think that is spelt right} that we will never see here.. Fair is fair being the west has a few "Tales" series RPG's that I have totally enjoyed and finished.
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We Will Miss Japanese Gaming {Part II}
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Fairbanks
It is also a shame that Nintendo {Who put out Xenoblade} puts out these Expensive gaming units here with their promises of the Fantastic Line Up.. Their latest gameing unit is Nintendo 3DS.. I got mine on Release and so far the games are Mainly crap or Re Runs or games I played in the 80's and 90's. Now I dont mind Repeats but we get nothing new here.. The WII had 1 great {I mean Great for the WII} RPG in the "Tales" series and that was that.. A lot of Garbage Mini Game disks and Kiddie Disk Game are out there but NOTHING to really keep an Adult interested.. OK They got my Hundreds of Dollars but pretty soon we are going to stop supporting them all together
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We Will Miss Japanese Gaming {Part III}
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Fairbanks
I guess With all the Video Gaming Kids out there we Oldsters are going to be pushed to the side in our Video Game Rocking Chairs and there will eventually be nothing for us ols time Role Players to play anymore.. Heaven forbid if An American company put so me time and effort into making that Great RPG... I am 56 years old and my 1st video game was PONG. I still have it working... Then Atari 2600, Intellivision, F-System, Colecovision, Paystations {Except the PS3} & all the Nintendo Machines... I will only hope to see some new Western made Video Games that will be fit for Adults.
Of course this is only my opinion but I have been playing video games since they started in America so I have a lot of Experience
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@Fairbanks
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
I kind of feel the same. I feel like I’m getting old. I'm out of this generation or something and I’m only 24. I grew up with RPG's and generally enjoy Japanese games more, that's not to say I don't love western games though. I put a lot of time into Bioware and Bethesda games.
I just feel like I’m in the minority just by liking the games I always have. I found out real quick that military shooters and online centered games were not my thing. I wouldn’t really bash them but I don't get much from them. It just seems that there are far more people who will bash eastern games and not care if they disappear not knowing what that would mean. How long are you going to remain a gamer if you only play one type of game. Variety and competition are the key here.
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@Thundgot
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by SovereignJC
I love how the only argument "die hard" JRPG players can bring up is the west is full of CoD clones! BLAAAAAH! We do have a couple of gems in the RPG department namely in BioWare (I could see more of you sheep preparing to call Mass Effect a "bro shooter" again) To name an oldie for the sake of argument.. Neverwinter Nights was tastefully done.
Think back in the 80's and 90's when we were first introduced to JRPGs. Final Fantasy was just released and became a success. The RPG market wasn't exceptionally huge back then and most people who enjoy RPGs to this day knew Square as a home brand name to the genre. The genre itself began to grow more and more but I think we could all agree Square is what made us love JRPGs the most. I like to say that now the West is starting to grow slowly just like the origins of JRPGs. Yeah there is room to improve but western RPGs aren't as bad as most of you make them out to be.
I think the main difference is innovation. I see some diversity in Western RPGs. Most of them hang on choice or the illusion of choice. To be honest.. I would rather much have the illusion of choice over no choice at all. The linearity of FFXIII has made me avoid Square Enix and anything with a Final Fantasy label on it but I won't get into that..
Yeah some of the western RPGs are riddled with cliches or can be corny at times but I don't remember ever playing a WRPG and feeling like it is the same exact story or concept every single time. ..and no I am not taking a shot at Final Fantasy because its a series and has many similarities, etc. But in a way I am.. Not just Final Fantasy but even Dragon Quest. If you read most of the comments on this article you could see some people brought up very good points. I almost think the Japanese gaming industry refuses to evolve or cater to international audiences. The games we all loved to play in our youth during the 80's and 90's.. we have outgrown them (few of them are guilty pleasures and timeless classics) and now in this day and age I really want something deeper than a group of effeminate teens wielding outrageous weapons, using the power of friendship and the help of guardian spirits and crystals to save the world. (props to DoctorYnot for that one) I think that concept lost its charm awhile back.. especially when the newer characters in the series are vastly inferior to the ones that came before them.
I am not boycotting JRPGs or hating on them in any sense. I have just lost interest in a vast majority of them. The Japanese Games can break up with the West all they want as long as Metal Gear Solid (Konami) and Persona (ATLUS) keep bringing their games over.. I am good. (I didn't mention Cashcom because they will always be around :P)
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@Sovereign
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Thundgot
I barely play JRPG's actually so can't really call me some sort of die hard fan. I haven't played Mass Effect personally but from what I could see from watching a friend play it it had an interesting storyline and was way different than MOST other games currently being pushed out in the west nowadays, and yes there are a crapload of CoD clones out there which is why I made that last statement about golden corns in both industries because there are some pretty damn good games being made in the west too, they are just overshadowed by these clones at times, at least depending on the company making and publishing these games.
The east got too many angsty teenagers though, just as we got too many marines.
Since I mostly commented to see what the person I commened to would be saying I will not be continuing to argue, I've made my point that both industries got crap and both industries got some epic games.
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@SovereignJC
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
That's pretty close to how I see things. Western and Eastern RPG's are pretty different but I find myself thinking that the western games end up as better products in the end. It's hard to explain because I like Japanese RPG's more but I tend to have a lot of problems with them. I can't tell you how frustrating Infinite Undiscovery and Star Ocean 4 were to me. I loved them from a game play stand point but the stories just screamed lost potential. They had the same clichés that have become much more annoying over time. Tsundere makes me want to punch people in the face since those characters more often than not are used in the exact same way. Combine that with secret princess’ and here we go again. I can’t think of many games that take those elements and do anything I haven’t already seen. Although Tales of the Abyss took amnesia and added a sweet twist to it.
On the flipside I never really have that big of a problem with any one aspect of games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, I just don't like them as much but in the end I consider them fully realized concepts. The problem is they are often different enough to not really be comparable, but I still see and mostly agree with your point. I hate to sound like I'm raggin' on JRPG's but I feel there are problems that need to be addressed.
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Hmm.,,
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by SovereignJC
I agree that each side has their hits and misses as well and I am not out to argue either. I just found it funny that the majority of people who hate western games or RPGs always bring up the CoD and its clones and "bro shooters" when the Japanese equally are guilty for lack of inovation. It wasn't a shot at you but rather something I noticed a ton of people bring up.
I think it is safe to say we all got into JRPGs because it was new and magical and it lured us in.. broke away from the mold. The way I see it.. Now it is the West that are making more interesting RPGs (my opinion) and grabbing my attention because in the past 20-30 years I have not seen much change in the overall concept of JRPGs. The genre will soon reach a time where everything has really just been done and it will feel like beating a dead horse but isn't that how the entertainment industry has been overall lately? Music and Films have lost quality and originality but that is a topic I won't get any more into..
..Oh and don't ever say the west is overrun with marines! It is all about Army Rangers Leading the Way! ( I couldn't help myself :P)
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lol
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by go2hell
@SovereignJC
"I love how the only argument "die hard" JRPG players can bring up is the west is full of CoD clones!"
When franchises are constantly re-awakened to turn into a fucking shooter (syndicate being the most recent example) then NO SHIT the west is full of CoD wannabes. They all want a piece of that pie. Same goes for Bioturd with their "we want the CoD audience" mentality. It's undeniable.
The only way the western market has evolved is trying to cut costs as much as possible while streamlining features as much as possible, meaning cut content, as well as trying to appeal to as many people as possible, meaning lowest common denominator, no style, no taste. What am I describing? You guessed it, Dragon Age 2.
Oh yeah they also evolved the business model. Using the same assets over and over and over to rehash the same game. Oh and usless DLC promotions EVERYWHERE also meaning they just slice your game up into little pieces. Awesome.
By the way you are fucking simpleton if you think dialogue checklists or picking a hair color are the only indicator of choice, or even good ones. Not to excuse FFXIII's linearity or anything, because that was complete bullshit. But a game doesn't need these cheesy useless dialogue trees to be imbued with choice.
By the way Neverwinter Nights was a shoddy game with once again another unimaginative samey story from Bioware. Buggy and ugly as shit, just like always.
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@go2hell
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by SovereignJC
U mad bro? Lulz. hesomad! Calm down, brosef! You don't need to get all butt hurt because you didn't agree with my opinion or comments. (Actually.. I find it amusing so please keep attempting to flame me. <3) If you have read some of my other comments.. especially on the article on Final Fantasy XIII-2 trying to win back disenfranchised fans, you would see that I listed Dragon Age 2 as a step back in the genre but I would still play the game over again rather than sit through another hour of FFXIII. You would also see my stand on DLC from my other constructive posts as well. I love Dragon Age and Mass Effect 1&2 and its my opinion to love it. Just because you hate BioWare doesn't mean they don't produce good games.
I think you missed the point where I said the illusion of choice is still refreshing than no choice. I never said that it was "The biggest step in video gaming is allowing me to make a choice in dialogue that doesn't dramatically change the course of the game or change my character's hair color." so you can just can that facade altogether.
Go troll on some IGN forums where the pre-teens and teens will think you are cool for throwing out so many swear words. :P
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Both countries have always made games that don't hop the seas.
Posted: Sep 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by skeleroar
Why is it in the last few years has this been such a big focus?
Of course things change over time,but I feel as though this sentiment regarding "The Difference" has gotten out of hand.
It seems like an entity that has been ballooned into legitimacy by way of incessant critique. I'm not attacking the author here,as I've run into a number of these articles.
How many people actually dismiss a game out of hand based on its geographical origin? Maybe I'm just too naive to allow for that kind of profound silliness.
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FFXIII...
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Silverware
... seemed to bring a lot of the "I hate Japanese games" people out of the woodwork (it was the first major FF of this generation, and it didn't exactly perform well), but even before then there's been a phobia among the younger generation of Japan. The best explanation I've heard (and was introduced just a few posts below this one, even) is that during the 80's and 90's, exposure to Japanese media became the norm in the west. Kids, as we all know, want to rebel against the norm. Kids are a huge demographic, so it's only natural for certain sites all over the web to pander to them.
So here we are.
The fact that almost nothing gets localized anymore, especially compared to the PS2 era, probably hasn't helped.
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why are there three paragraphs devoted to explaining what moe is?
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by Twinklecup
I started getting flashbacks of pedos schooling people on the difference between pedophiles and ephebophiles when I got to the lengthy explanation about how moe isn't a type of character, it's a feeling. Why are we sperging out over this? Wouldn't a simple sentence or two have sufficed?
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speak for yourseeeelllllllfffff
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by go2hell
"that the tastes of Japanese gamers are diverging from the rest of the world,"
more like America's taste turned into only liking shooters, post 9/11 world militaristic bullshit, xenophobic isolationism because their economy is horrible (BUY FORD LOL), education system is horrible and no gamers have attention spans anymore, world of warcraft turned game design philsophy into "rewards and punishments" so all games never try to challenge you
yes japan gravitated to handhelds which suffer more from piracy than consoles do, and in general westerners don't want to pay for handheld games. lots of games suffer from moe nonsense but those are niche for the most part
sorry but I will never prefer games like fallout or bioware games, I wish the media would stop perpetuating this crap. I am so sick of dialogue trees that do nothing, horrible animations, dialogue pandering to virgins, and storylines that are all the same, settings that are all the same, and everything being guns guns guns guns. oh and open world games with no clear objectives are boring as hell to me and never done well.-
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Too much irony is bad for the blood
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by DoctorYnot
"I am so sick of dialogue trees that do nothing, horrible animations, dialogue pandering to virgins, and storylines that are all the same, settings that are all the same"
I was scrolling past and read that and I was about to say "To be fair, not all Japanese games are like that. Just most of them are."
Then I saw you were talking about western games and laughed for like a solid twenty five seconds. That may not sound like a lot but try it sometime. But hey, whatever, there are a million games with a setting like Fallout, but all Japanese games are sooo charmingly unique and original.
By the way, did you hear about that revolutionary JRPG that's coming out? About the effeminate teenagers with swords that save the world through the power of friendship while gaining power from crystals and guardian spirits?
...What do you mean that already came out? What do you mean that already came out several hundred times? What do you mean every JRPG ever made except for an amount you an count on your fingers and not run out is essentially that down to the same copypaste mechanics?
What do you mean go2hell is autistic?
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FYI:
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by TheRealFearlessCelt
Ford took 5.9 billion in government money, just not during the "bailout" that was publicized. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jesx2f8Y8dKUCMIhgM_8K_XMLd6Q
Japanese games have been more derivative for longer than western games. Dragon Quest, while still fun, has been essentially the same game for years. This is why FFXIII was so awful for me, THIS is the change you make? I'd rather play the classics over and over.
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@DoctorYnot
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by SovereignJC
LOL! I see what you did there! I totally agree. I am actually kinda tired that the majority of die hard JRPG gamers think they need to shun WRPGs like religious zealots. "All western games are the same! America has turned into Call of Duty lazy idiots! World of Warcraft spoiled gamers! BLAAAAAAHHH! ALL CAPS RAGE!"
They fail to see that titles like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest have essentially released the same idea over and over with changes to the effeminate teens in their cast. FFXIII just ended up being something completely different and it happened to be its biggest flaw. If you ask me.. I will gladly take Commander Shepard and The Grey Warden any day of the week over FAIL Cie and a cast of bland, effeminate, emo/angst filled, tasteless characters.
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lick my nuts
Posted: Sep 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by go2hell
I said I don't like Fallout or Bioware games. I never said I don't like WRPGs. And to clarify, I am not against open worlds, I just find most of the hyped up games like Fallout to be severely poorly executed on that front. Go ahead and rank on all JRPGs many of your criticisms are valid but I never ranked on all WRPGs or said I hate all western games. I fucking love old school WRPG like Might and Magic, Menzoberranzan, Master of Magic, Darklands, etc. and there are plenty of current western franchises I like. All I said was American tastes have shifted just as much if not more than Japan's.
What bugged me about that statement was not that I just loooove Japanese games. In fact I hate moe nonsense and many games have been ruined by it. It was the notion that only Japanese taste is the one that is diverging, when American tastes have gone pretty much full military hero fantasy 24/7 and this is development just as recent and obviously a side effect/symptom of domestic political climate and rhetoric. They are diverging from eachother, and that was not accurately represented in this article what with its lengthy section on moe.
You know what, moe crap is plenty prevalent lately in Bioware games anyway, just of a different flavor, and yet that talking point is continually used to divide people. DA2 was just as sickening to me as Star Ocean 4 in the script department, and probably twice as patronizing.
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The poor get it in the winter
Posted: Sep 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by DoctorYnot
You make a couple of good points even though headlining the whole thing with 'lick my nuts' makes you sound like you have brain damage or Tourette's or both.
The first two Fallout games were two of the most phenomenal, revolutionary and unique games ever made. Let us be clear on this. As for Bioware...What came after Jade Empire? I can't be bothered to check but yes, I agree with you, everything that's come out after the first Mass Effect has been kind of shit. Now, not as much shit as the average jRPG. God no. But shit by wRPG standards which, let's be honest, are the only standards the hardcore neckbeard crowd gives a shit about. That includes me, obviously.
I don't think it's that games have gone too 'military'. Nearly every game is about some sort of confrontation or competition and off the top of my head the only RPG I can name that isn't mostly about victory through violence is, I guess, Recettear? Or Harvest Moon. Yeah, most jap games are shit and they have been for a while, but I think that what pisses me off about them isn't that they're bad, but the reason WHY they're bad. Most of what comes out of the West these days is FPS horseshit, but the blame for that can be laid squarely at the feet of the corporate whores who feel it's the only type of game that can turn a profit with the ADD crowd. I mean I guess in a roundabout way you could blame fratboys for giving them that idea...But fuck it, you know? I feel like they should be at least helping them along gradually. We all started playing with the little two-button NES controller and now we play videogames with controls overwrought enough you could land the moon shuttle with them.
Where was I? Oh yeah. Bottom line, I can forgive the Cawadoodys because they're failing as videogames purely because they're a purely mercenary enterprise focused entirely on making money by going with what works. If they see something they like in a new game, fuck it, throw it in there. They don't care; they have no prejudice, you know? All their decisions are motivated purely by greed and short-sightedness, not some asinine misplaced sense of superiority.
Not so the latest nipponese piece of shit. Those fail because the Japanese gaming industry is a toxic little incestous circlejerk where mummified whores prosper and young men die like dogs. They think they've got this 'videogame' thing nailed down so there's no innovation, nothing new. Why try anything new when they've already mastered their art? Hey the baka gaijin roundeyes are doing this thing called bullet time now should we maybe try to- "NO! A YOUNG BOY SAVES THE WORLD! WESTERN GAMES ARE SHIT!"
It's just a fucking drag.
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/thread
Posted: Sep 18, 2011 12:00AM PST by Misia
Go2hell said everything that needed to be said. "Neofascism rising in the West" is the one and only answer to the title.
Also, the way this article is structured is a bit suspect to me. Does it really have to be East VERSUS West? Unless you're a fascist life is neither war nor competition. It's 2011, we are world citizens, we're influenced by every single culture out there, the whole world is our neighbourhood. Who's this article trying to talk to. Why aliment divisions like that.
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thread\
Posted: Sep 18, 2011 12:00AM PST by DoctorYnot
Good job ignoring the entire dialogue up until you came in, posting your stupid, uneducated opinion which you've hilariously mistaken as profound and then walking away like fuckin' Zeus back to Mount Olympus after declaring '/thread'.
The way you yuppie freaks always squirm out of the woodwork after the intellectual heavy lifting has been to ignore the discussion and spew your milquetoast upper-middleclass horsehit about how 'imperialist pigs', 'war of western aggression' and 'ameriKKKa' never ceases to irritate me.
Neofascism.... Christ. G. Liddy would have slurped you geeks up like half-melted icecream.
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Slight bit of a rant, BUT here's the problem on BOTH sides.
Posted: Sep 28, 2011 12:00AM PST by Dragon'sWrath
more freakin honesty in my RPGs... Like for example, Chrono Trigger, the guy you play for just over 1/2 the game... gets turned to freakin dust right in front of your eyes. Basically... I'm tired of games that are too afraid for challenging our morals, or feelings, or whatever and are too afraid of offending someone. Far as I'm concerned... yes it's a game, but umm... when you get shot with a freakin laser beam, you don't just up and respawn 3 feet away like nothing ever happened -_- ... I want real dificulties, I want REAL sex/nudity, I want to feel REAL emotions, instead so many companies are more afraid of offending someone that we get kiddy style games 1/2 the time in the western end. FUCK the ESRB, their ONLY purpose should be labeling a game as "Under 18" and "Mature/18+ Only"... PERIOD! and anyone who gets offended needs to grow the fuck up and learn that hey... life isn't all sunshine and lollipops, people fuck, people get hurt, people die, people feel shit. I like homefront for that (I remember that first execution scene... damn! that was a strong moment). I want cursing back, I want believable charatcers at least to an extent, I mean yeah sure there can be some special shit which is cool... but a 12-18 year old with ZERO prior combat experience of ANY kind kicking a huge super powerful demon's ass with a paper thin sword that looks like it's made of water inside a plastic shell? O_o... WTF?! No, give me something BELIEVABLE to certain extents and I'll be happy. I love the darker side of games because it's more believable and immersive... BOTH eastern AND western should release games like that. That's the biggest problem with BOTH sides, and don't get me wrong, I like unbelievable stuff as well but dude... there's a line. Most of us are full grown adults, and I'm not saying all games should be like that and have sex/nudity or whatever... but we should at least have some choices. When I pick up a game, the FIRST thing I'm looking for is a deep story that will immerse me, the SECOND thing I look for controls and playability and how good/deep it goes, THEN it's the looks of shit but sometimes I'm majorly put off even if the first 2 are good cuz the 3rd is just so... so... "YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SHITTING ME!" kind of thing. I still play the game and enjoy it... just soooo damn hard to get fully immersed into a game where you are playing a 14 year old kid who's taking on a freakin army of whatever and winning (with extreme ease I might add). Many of the true gamers (such as myself, been gaming since I was 4, 26 now) are full grown adults and sometimes we want shit that not only challenges us game wise, but also in what we know and how we think. Also, some like to play (like me) to get caught up in something like you would in a damn good book. There are sooooo few games that actually do that, we can handle the shit, i mean... we're adults, and if someone can't handle it, then they take things WAY too seriously (especially games) and shouldn't be playing at all. If companies want to pull the "cater to this group" bullshit... then more need to cater to ALL groups. Slowly some are starting to (examples: Darksiders, The Darkness 2, Homefront, Dues Ex: Human Revolution (if you really think about some of the shit that goes on... kinda mindblowing honestly), instead of making everything more or less CoD copy or young teenage boy save world or some super feminesticly sexually overly done woman in the most revealing of outfits... honestly? what woman would go around trying to save someone or a planet in daisy duke short kind of shorts, high heels, AND a VERY revealing blose? really??). Thankfully SOME companies and developers are starting to get that (bulletstorm, homefront, and a select few others), but seriously though? enough with the bs CoD clones, or if you're gonna make them, make it where you die ONCE in a match, you're out. You die during your campain? You start from the beginning of the entire level (if they take 20 or so minutes to get through, then ONE checkpoint midway would be ok, NOT every 3 fucking feet >_
summary:
More realistic depictions of things (mainly charatcers, emotions, and story)
More adult themed games... that are ACTUALLY adult, not borderline "hope I don't offend anyone" pussified crap
Some REAL dificulty, not the "oh let's cater to the crybabies cuz they can't get past enemy 4 on level 1 of the easiest difficulty" crap >_
I'd like to see some games with REAL realism, not this "oh we made these effects and motions realistic... but you're practically invicible, oh and you'll always respawn 3 feet from where you died, have fun! :D"... Anybody remember what it was like to be 20-30 minutes into a fight with some freakishly OP'd enemy or stage only to die and start from the beginning again? Frustrating right?... now... does anyone remember what it was like when you finally did beat it? Idk about anyone else, but I felt like i freakin accomplished something, rather than had it handed to me >_<
edit: apologies for the extremely long post and rant... just infuriates me that gamers like me who want the same shit get ignored almost no matter what and we are just left out in the cold so freezing so to speak... by damn near every company /rantoff
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Why is this a problem.
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by Silverware
I like my Japanese games Japanese and my Western games Western.I do not like my Japanese games western. I do not want both sides of the pacific making the exact same god damn games. I fail to see how this is anything other than a manufactured problem. If you don't like Japanese games, don't play them. Plenty of other people will. Unless it's on a Nintendo console. Thanks for the region lock, guys. -
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You know...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by antestor1
I read things like that part about the older designer dismissing Bioshock and I feel sort of sad for him. Mostly because I, like many of the people who read it, see it as the trend the article wants us to. But just now I watched the Monster Hunter 4 trailer and could tell within seconds that I'll never play it.
For years now it's been that way though. I can't tell you how many Japanese games, no matter the hype, I have glanced at over the past few years and dismissed at least as quickly as that game maker.
And I wonder if maybe there is something I'M missing. But you know...I don't think I even care anymore to put the effort into finding out.
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I feel the same about a lot of western games
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
I just like Japanese games more, I grew up with them. Every time I see another military shooter I know with in seconds that I will never end up playing it. Of course it's not as simple as it being all western or all eastern games but western styles don't appeal to me as much. I tried playing Gears of War and God of War and just couldn't care less. Yet I can put 100 hours into Star ocean and Persona.
It's easy to not care if Japanese games don't make it here if you don't like them personally, but this article makes it sound like no one likes Japanese games anyways so who cares. I just don't think this article reflects how we really feel about eastern games well. We need that competition and variety.
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Actually that's a good point and one I'd agree with.
Posted: Sep 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by antestor1
Now that I think about it, I have no interest in most western games either. I have no plans to get Bettlefield or MW3, I didn't pick up inFamous 2 or Killzone 3, and western RPGs, save but those made by Bioware or Bethesda, I tend not to give a 2nd thought to.
Further, I really don't hate ALL Japanese games, I still love fighting games for example, and whenever a new Metal Gear gets announced I get very excited.
That said I still get tired of all the anime and some of the general Japanese sensabilites though.
Like Japanese open world games tend to have a ton of minigames and that seems like busy work to me. Which I don't like.
Hmm, at the same time many western OW games tend to feel emptier than I'd like....
Ok, now I'm just rambling....
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We probably should have seen this coming
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by haku0ni
Think about it-movies from other countries don't necessarily play as well in America as their place of orgin and vice versa. Same for books. Different cultures natually evolve different forms of storytelling in any medium. So obviously, a movie/book written and originally released in China will suffer cultural dissonance when released in the US. Now some works (Like the Steig Larsson books) do just fine. But not all.
What's so amazing about videogames is that the medium was developed by two wildly different cultures simulatenously influencing each other's works. There was a give and take between US and Japanese developers initially. Now, not so much. Stuff like FFXIII shows that there is still some exchange going though.....
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western games need
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by SuperSledge
a lot more lolitas
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Western games need
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Alpha_Nerd
better developed characters. Shepherd from mass effect (as well as other Bioware characters) are a step in an approximately correct direction, but the characters in most western RPGs feel like the cast of most action movies from the 80s and 90s. I certainly don't feel like playing the Expendables RPG lol
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Alpha_Nerd
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by metajay
Which characters do you mean when you say "most?" I'd take you to task on finding an action hero in Planescape: Torment, Divine Divinity (unless he/she was comic relief), the Fallout series, Baldur's Gate, the Elder Scrolls games, etc. Bioware games have a lot of big action set pieces, true (I thought the ending to ME 2 was ridiculous), but you are overlooking a lot of games by making that generalization. Also, playing a role in a lot of western RPG's usually involves more of a blank slate style character whose role is defined through the player's choices (or at least the illusion of it). I'm currently playing through Trails in the Sky, FF IV, Vagrant Story, Legends of man, and YS: the Oath in Felghana, so it's not like I'm some JRPG hater or anything, but I definitely prefer the darker tone and humor style of their western couterparts.
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Namely: Septerra Core
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by nibble4bits
Played it and noticed that it was essentially a clone of Final Fantasy 7 with a bit of the old Ultima concepts (flat earth worlds REGIONS /s) tossed in for fun. The game came across as pretty thin in comparison, much like Mother 3 did. No point in returning to areas, no easy transportation until last part of game, some cool secret items not available until they're pretty much redundant and so on. The game was great but just seemed... unpolished. Like it got to 95% and forgot a few things. The game is DEFINITELY worth playing all the way through, though!
I suggest you look up a list of archetypes, and see how writers and other authors and creative types try to choose them carefully. It's actually rare that a character doesn't strongly associate with a dozen or so. Your work as a character designer is to make sure that your characters are interesting and not strictly predictable characters. That is, unless you're trying to make a predictable oaf or a cheesy villain. ;) Also, nothing says that you can't decide to gradually or suddenly change the character's behaviour. The trick is to not ruin the plot while doing so. Imagine if Kefka suddenly decided that since he was a god, there was no longer any reason to be the penultimate total jerk with a god complex? I mean, logically, he IS a god at the end of the game, but that doesn't mean that his psychological issues just vanished.
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the reason is...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Kevroequis
that people of the older generation (30-40) who grew up in the 80's and 90's were enamored by japanese cultures and ideas, because japanese content was just getting here and it was so exotic and different from what we knew here. in the late 90's to early 2000's, japanese cartoons and games were so rampant stateside, and culture points from japan seemed to be couture to a certain extent. enter the new generation. everybody knows that a current youth generation is fairly against the norm when they hit certain ages, and when they were little, japanese content was fairly normal- hell, i'd even say the media was saturated with the stuff. add to that the idea that whatever you liked when you were a kid doesn't appeal to you again until you're almost 30, usually. ask me why i've spent the last few years watching things like the Goonies and Neverending Story, and playing Metroid and Zelda 1 and 2. the way i see it, kids see japanese content as sort of the Corvette of the video game world- they all like it, and it's worth looking at, but to them it's just too domestic and vanilla. they need the Lamborghini experience of video games, which is COD and the like- technologically advanced, fast and violent. just my inference, but based on a few years of observation of friends and such of different age levels and their interests.
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This is a damn shame.
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by shadowhearts
It really is, if what you're saying is true. I know that the whole stigma in Japan about Western games, I remember hearing about it for the first time when I was told about "Final Fantasy IV EasyType". This has put the West in a severely negative light but things have always been that way. It's just becoming more and more obvious, now.
All I can say is that I don't want to see a scene where I see nothing but Madden, Call of Duty, and lackluster ripoffs of times gone by.-
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The X is for?
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by nibble4bits
The X in the box is because of all the clones on the system. Sadly, I think that pun applies to the PC as well. I haven't used a PS3 yet and only just now got an interest in the recent generations of consoles, so I don't know if that's true on there as well. Nor have I owned or used a Wii or NDS. The 3D portable from Nintendo (3DS) looks neat, though, heh.
I remember the Atari 2600 and... hope we never see that again. Thanks to the Internet, it should hopefully be a rare marketing fluke due to a lack of communication among players and/or control by the system makers.
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Good article
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Jiggles
Being only 2 pages, it had to generalize a bit, but it brought up a number of valid issues.
I'm mildly surprised at some of the negativity in the comments. Though, I really shouldn't be. I wouldn't even recognize the Internet without constant flame wars in articles' comment sections.
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Mixing of cultures is the engine of innovation
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Spectreman
Anime and manga become so huge and good because unite traditional japanese art and western influences. Japanese game industry needs the same thing now.
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What innovation?
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by AdvancedCaveman
Anime and manga are popular because they both contain enough angst, pent up sexual frustration, and droning exposition to perfectly pander to the geek status quo. People who don't think about anything get hooked on formula of anime and the repititious abundance of it. Then they refuse to ever think about animation from other counties or from different eras and we are drug further into a hole of mediocrity. That "western games suck" thing is a massive example of that narrow minded unwillingness to look at anything outside the norm.
You want animation with a mixing of cultures? Watch Persepolis. Watch French animation, watch old Soviet Era Russian cartoons. Look at things from every culture and every decade instead of fixating on Japan and America. Anime and manga aren't mixing anything or innovating in any way. Maybe they where in the 80s, 70s or earlier but not now, not in the last 2 decades.
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@AdvancedCaveman
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by Silverware
Because god forbid people want something entertaining when they watch entertainment. You realize that if you go back 20 - 30 years there's only so much of it that exists, right? That you're eventually going to run out? Anime on the other hand gets twenty to thirty new shows every three months, and many of them are quite good.
Sounds like someone's just mad that mass produced animation that ISN'T aimed at children has taken off somewhere in the world, but it's not in the west.You critisize anime for being "all the same" (I'll also add that I think it's extremely inappropriate to critisize something when you clearly know nothing about it), but get back to me when adult animation in the States isn't completely and absolutely dominated by Seth McFarlane and Williams Street.
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@Silverware
Posted: Nov 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by kgptzac
The sentiment of recent Japanese anime lacks freshness is a general consensus. Over half of the "20~30 new shows every three months" is infested with the same problem the main article is adressing: endless catering to moef*gs. Sure, Japanese anime generally aren't targeted to little kids (note the Hentai industry), but that doesn't mean the overall quality is better.
I know this because I sample new anime every three months and I drop most of them out of dry disgust precisely because of this. Believe or not, most of the new stuff are just clones of an existing formula; it's the same deal with games that come out from both sides of the Pacific ocean and anime. Those title may make money and generate viewers, but face it, many of them are the same shit over and over again.
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let them have...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by donny_d
their lolitas chuckin the duece. i'm sorry pic is pure lol.
seriously, i'd take a naughty dog production over any japanese game in a heartbeat.-
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Naughty Dog is a rare exception
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Alpha_Nerd
of an amazing Western Developer. Also, naughty dog doesn't make RPGs, and the majority of the japanese games that people are getting upset about missing out on are in fact, RPGs.
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Man
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by TaboriHK
I have a hard time reading this article and not hating Japan more than I already do. It just sounds like a nightmarish punishment of a society to live in. I just don't get them. At all.
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i guess your reaction means
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Dub_Z
mission accomplished, then. seriously, someone mentions these phrases on 8-4 Play for about 2 minutes, and then it's off to write a heavy editorial on japanese pedophilia and xenophobia?
don't know how many times and in how many ways 1up can beat this dead horse, and keep trying to deliver it in a fair and forgiving, no-spin way. no matter how many times they rewrite the same article, people are still going to want great games to be localized and buy whatever system has the games they want, regardless of where it originated.
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Don't fuel the fire!
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
Japan has a beautiful culture. Sure, in many ways it is a lot different than ours, but that's what makes it so wonderful. I've been studying Japanese culture for almost 10 years and have been there as an exchange student. They are truly wonderful people.
I can't stress how upsetting this article has become. The more I read this the more I feel like it's an outright attack on Japanese culture. It's misinformed and paints a picture that just isn't true at all.
When I hear people go beyond the issue of games to say that they hate an entire country, it hurts. It really hurts me personally. My host family was wonderful. The students I worked with in Nagoya were so much fun to be around and so kind.
I'm not asking you to love Japan, but please don't hate them because of what this article said. It's when people like this write articles without understanding their culture that American's get all these wrong impressions...
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Don't hate them really
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by TaboriHK
Hate is a strong word. I guess pity and find myself confused by is more accurate. The worker bee mentality is insane to me. The "everyone's opinion about me is important" culture is silly to me. The softcore pedo vibe that is such a mainstain in their market doesn't help. I don't care how nice they are. I just don't appreciate their value system. At all.
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The beauty of Japanese culture....
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by TheRealFearlessCelt
...in in the eye of the beholder. Subservient women, Uchi-Soto, Gaijin complex, "Goatism", Amae, the Caste System, the complete lack of willpower to change something they might not agree with, the Iron Triangle, conformity.
Studying Japanese culture casts it in a very romantic light. The reality of living there as an outsider is very different. The Japanese are almost always polite, as their culture has groomed them to be, but never confuse that for affection or acceptance. Unless you are Japanese, you will have a hard time ever being fully accepted as an equal. Japanese culture is no different or more beautiful than any other culture. It's not better or worse than any other society, it's simply different. How their society matches your personality is what makes it more or less "beautiful" to you, but the reality is not the same for all people. I respect the Japanese, as I respect all people. Hard work, order, respect for your fellow countrymen. These are beautiful things about Japanese society. But as far as open-mindedness, individuality and acceptance of foreign culture, Japanese culture is really rather ugly. They're perhaps more interesting a culture to people unfamiliar with it than many others, but not any better or worse overall than any other culture.
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Seriously TaboriHK?
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
I know I'm late to the party but America has it's own "jail bait attraction issues". Look how much teen celebrities are dolled up and flaunted over here. There was also that disturbing case where a little girl actress or model turned up dead. (Case and point I see raising kids to be celebs when their barely old enough to talk kinda wrong to begin with)
It's easier to point and harder to look at one's own flaws. Get off that high-troll-battle-warg Mr. Mustache!
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difference -> hate. Really...?
Posted: Nov 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by kgptzac
Or pity, or whatever.
Or rather I pity people who would judge a culture so lightly by an article on a gaming site. I think people took this article the wrong way: the author tries to rationalize the disparity between two sides of the industry by taking a few snapshots of the real-life circumstances in Japan, and it is not to be intepreted the other way around, namely: looking at Japan gaming industry and infer an alien cultural monster.
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Interesting article but as always...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Pollak
it gets dragged down into the fanboy East vs West debate and I'm starting to get tired of it. It seems like every time there is an analysis like this it always just turns into "West/East is best, all the East/West do is punp out the same FPS/JRPG over and over".
People need to grow up and stop going into damage control mode (or super smug mode) everytime they agree or disagree with an article regarding this topic. Just because you agree or disagree doesn't make an article 100% right or wrong. The article had some interesting points whether you agree with them or not.
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My thoughts on Japanese video games:
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by guillermo_gage
One console Zelda game every five years
(and Smash Bros. every 5 to 6 years), and a Mario Kart every three years
Screw everything else, including Pokémon.
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Great article
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by learningKnight
I particularly like the bits about how there really aren't very many adult gamers in Japan-- that accounts for a lot of what I see as the Japanese industry's failure to "grow up" along with me-- whereas, thematically, Western games have (overall) become more mature, Japanese games seemed to stay the same.
It's really sad in a way that Japan is simply deciding, "So long, Western World, we just don't need you anymore"... such a uniquely Japanese way of handling the problem. An American company would never casually abandon a massive market in such a way-- take Microsoft, who's console and software has been selling abysmally in Japan, but who steadfastly refuses to throw in the towel, trying over and over again to make a product that Japanese gamers will respond to.
We'll miss you, Japan. Maybe a few years down the line, when your rigid society has thawed a little bit, you'll be willing to combine the amazing talent, unique perspective and respect for craft with the INNOVATION that once made you top of the heap.
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@learningKnight
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by Tuor
A few years down the road? Maybe a few decades, probably a few centuries, if ever. Their society, by its very nature, is rigid and resists change. It causes the things it encounters to conform with it, but its core is never ruffled -- it doesn't change unless something truly catastrophic happens, and even then the change is miniscule.
Japan is terrible at innovation, but great at adapting things to fit their world (that is, Japan). But once they've adapted to it, it becomes Tradition, and then it remains fixed. There is one way to to something, and once that way is determined, that's it. To change it would be to admit you were wrong. It doesn't matter if circumstances change, what matters is the accepted way be maintained, as people have invested their reputation in the correctness of that way.
Sometimes, the very things that make you wonderful and unique are the very things that hold you back and cause you to stagnate... or to fail altogether.
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Why Japanese games annoy me and why they won't change until they have to.
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by nelly_k
My biggest complaint with modern Japanese games isn't so much the style or surface stuff (same old art and annoying characters...you can say the same thing about Western games), but in design philosophy. I'll give a couple example of what I mean. I wanted to love Dead Rising so much, but the save system was awful. I dismissed it as "Japanese," and traded it in. Somehow, at the risk of losing my sanity, I beat the original Xbox Ninja Gaiden before there was a ninja dog setting, but then I played Demon's Souls, and all I could I do was laugh and say, "Is this a joke?". The Japanese are either A) Truly behind the times and stuck in their ways by thinking a game isn't a good value unless it's "old school" or B) The Japanese expect you as a player to accept a real challenge, because, afterall, it is a game. But to expect them to "Westernize" is ludicrous. They're making games that they know will sell to their audience in Japan. To us that may seem limited, but they're not stupid. It is conceivable that one day the rest of the world will penetrate the games market in Japan. On that day, Japan will start changing the way they make games.
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If this current console generation has taught us anything.....
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by TheRealFearlessCelt
....it's that gaming in the U.S. can exist without Japan. The bulk of all console sales are here in the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_wars The bulk of all game sales is here in the U.S. Publishers aim to create games for Western audiences, and the best selling games of this current console generation are "Western" developed and oriented games. http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&publisher=&console=X360&genre=&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total
If Japan no longer wishes to support western gaming, so be it. Their attempts at creating "western" games have been futile, at best. Popular taste has changed (for better or worse), and you either adapt or die.
That said, Japan should realize that many gamers, myself included, like Japanese games. Many RPG fans are still clamoring for more JRPGs to make it here. Instead of trying to change what they do to suit western gamers, they should embrace the western gamers that enjoy Japanese games. It's like your mother used to tell you, "If people don't like you for who you are......" -
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I fail to understand
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Alpha_Nerd
how you can run this article whilst your sister site, IGN is promoting the living hell out of TGS 2011, replete with Banners that say "Japan invented gaming as we know it". Its as if the Bias against japanese gaming in general is super thick here. Like it or not, the Japanese will always be a huge factor in the gaming market place, even if fans of shooters and western sports titles don't care for them. Personally, I would take a game like Persona or Demon Souls over Dragon Age, Call of Duty, or Madden any day of the week. Its true that a lot of Japanese titles seem more about style and less about substance, where as the opposite can be said for most western titles, where they drop you right into gameplay without much extraneous story telling, but there has absolutely got to be a happy medium. Another poster mentioned that the brightest minds from each camp should get together and collaborate at some point. frankly I couldnt agree more, because i feel like something has to give. Xenophobia of any kind is not a good thing.
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@Machocruz
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by AdvancedCaveman
That "middle ground" you're mentioning is my favorite area of gaming. However, it's become completly dead and/or marginalized in this generation. You mentioned Sly Cooper. It's taken like 6 fucking years to get a new Sly Cooper game because Sucker Punch keeps working on Infamous, the very epitomy of generic gritty realisic dudebro shit that I can't stand. Sly 4 only exists because some other developer picked it up, and I'm sure Sucker Punch will be making more boring ass, dark n' edgy, "bald gravely voiced angry man murders people in dirty industrial parks while collecting codex entries" type games that I don't like in the future. Sly 4 isn't going to be as good as it could be because Sucker Punch isn't actually working on it.
Monkey Island shows another side of that middle ground marginalization. We got Tales of Monkey Island, but its in the form of a low budget downloadable game that simply isn't as polished or rich as it's full scale predecessors. It's great that Telltale is making adventure games, but their games have absolutly terrible character animation that tends to suck the wind out of my sails.
Last gen you could get a nice mix of things, but in this era everything is Western Generic (TM) or Eastern Generic (TM). Everything is either generic bald space marines or generic sparkling fancy lad anime people.
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Xenophobia- it does not mean what you think it means
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by elbowpants
Moe is exactly what everyone complains about when they refer to Japanese games. It would be creepy regardless of origin.
The article isn't even saying that Japanese games are unpopular or inferior. Rather, it's saying that the two markets no longer have the same focus and that there are things that just don't have mass appeal in the Western market anymore. When's the last time a Japanese game made an impact over here the way, say, FF7 did? Been a long time.
Oh, and the author lived in Japan for a while and speaks it fluently, so it's kind of unfair to accuse him of being a xenophobe.
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Xenophobia means exactly what i think that it means
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Alpha_Nerd
Its defined as a fear or hatred of strangers or foreigners or anything strange or foreign. Many gamers in the west will not give games that are japanese a chance simply based upon misconceptions and general dislike for things that they do not understand. Clearly this is being xenophobic
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Don't know what your talking about.
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Misterpants
I still like Japanese games. Especially because they are wierd.
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I agree
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by SuperSledge
Some of their games like Deadly Premonition intrigue me because they are so quirky
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Catgirls = Moe
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by YJDO
Simple as that.
I couldn't care less if Japanese games are breaking from the West or vice-versa. Just give me good games from both side available in Europe and I'll play them
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.....
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by San_Andreas
....This.
I don't need every obscure rhythm game/dating sim that Japan has to offer. Give me the odd Tales, Valkyria, or Yakuza game, plus old standbys like FF, MGS, Zelda, and I'll call it good.
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Guess that means...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by catgirl147
... I'm the epitome of moe, huh ....
Ahem, I agree with San though, give me the standby's and I'm good. Tales please God, come here. I know you hate international releases Bamco, but Xillia must come here. must.
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messing around with the language
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by jonnyjones72
I'm not sure how much time the author of this article has spent in Japan. I've been living here for the past 5 years and I've never heard "mo-ay" but my gf says it's an otaku word for expressing an emotional reaction to something. But she cringed when I asked her and since I've never heard of it, it must be something burried deep in the underground nerdical culture of Japan that even a semi-nerd like me wouldn't dare associate with. I guess it's the English equivalent of "epic fail" or something. You wouldn't go judging an entire culture or generation based on one word, though you probably could.
As for "yo-ge kuso-ge" that's a little more complicated. At first my gf, who is Japanese, said it didn't mean anything because it isn't really Japanese. 'ge' is short of game. In Japan they say "mobairu ge" short for mobile gaming like iPhone games. "yo-ge kuso-ge" must be an extreme inside joke within the Japanese devs community. Technically it does translate as "west game, shit game." But "kuso" isn't used as an adjective like that to describe things, just as an expletive. In fact, Japanese doesn't really have any swear words, you could say 'kuso' on TV. It just means "damnit!"
There's a few things in the article that I disagree with. Japanese nerd culture is no different than American nerd culture (except for the school girl panties in vending machines) and there are groups on both sides of the fence in both cultures when it comes to adult gaming. I'm looking at you Donny Douche! Also, nobody in Japan works 13 hours per day, maybe seven then spends two hours in the bar with the boss or some bar hostesses and finally heads home. Besides, most people in Japan work part-time jobs, sometimes more than one. My gf works 28 hours per week, and I do 29.5 with some travel, and I'm a full timer on a contract.
But it is true for Japnese men, turn 30, get married and have a kid or two and the gaming console ends up in the closet.
I should write a full response to this at some point, it's a pretty complicated subject.
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"Kusoge"
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by ChronoDragoon
Well, adapted words in Japanese are still considered Japanese, albeit written in katakana instead of kanji or furigana. "Omraisu" is undoubtedly a Japanese word even though it's an abbreviation for the English words "omlette" and "rice". As for "kuso", it is sort of like American curses in its flexibility. It can be used as an expletive as you said, or as in "kuso kurai" (which as was explained to me by a girl in Japan refers to throwing shit, if I understood her correctly) it can be translated as "screw that!" But I suppose when you said it "isn't Japanese" you're referring to the fact that it doesn't follow Japanese adjectival grammar rules.
There are a lot of Japanese words that are difficult to translate accurately into English, which is just part of Japanese culture's love of vagueness. "Moe" seems to follow this trend.
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Yes, please do.
Posted: Sep 17, 2011 12:00AM PST by zzppqq
Informative. Regarding the nerd culture, I've heard people in the U.S. use 'otaku' as a word of praise, meaning that the person is nerdy enough to get a secret and exotic name for being a nerd. Additionally, there's an implication that being a nerd is respected in other cultures even if it isn't here.
On the other hand, I've also heard that otaku is an offensive thing to call someone and that real otakus would be social pariahs in any world. I suspect that these words just aren't very well defined. They probably apply to a range of different types of people and have uses that vary depending on that particular person's opinion of games or comic books. Maybe that's why she winced at it.
I like hearing about cultural comparisons of these types and so would welcome any longer response you'd care to write.
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Ah, I think I get it...
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by nibble4bits
So essentially, "Moe" is for Japan geekdom, what "Need for speed" was for car geekdom?
*BOOM BOOM BOOM BASS SPEAKERS* *FLASH FLASH FLASH GROUND LAMPS* Oh no, there goes another fool with no hearing, a nitro kit on a 1.7L 4-cylinder, 1200 pounds of stuff (electronics, mostly?) that does nothing for his horse power, dead suspension, and a even deader battery! ;)
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Because of the Redundant Style
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BetardxFoosier
Japanese games are disconnecting with the West because of the anime and childish stylistic choices that the artists are using. Everything is hyperbolized in the universes of these games. Girls act like little children. Guys are cliche "badasses," but always turn into a softee when a girl comes around. And then there are the typical annoying characters that you just want to strangle. Throw these main stereotypical characters into a futuristic world with strange clothing, and you have a JRPG.
So basically, there isn't much innovation going on over in Japan to keep the interest of the more casual gamers. The hardcore JRPG fan market is too small over in the U.S. for the publishers to keep shipping them abroad.
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Exactly
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by gutsdozier
What happens with any niche genre, especially in tough economic times, is that creators increasingly pander to the most dedicated and hardcore fans. When you start to pander too much, you lose what casual fans you had left.
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Zelda games don't do that shit.
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by guillermo_gage
Because Link doesn't talk.
Put Link in first person with a crowbar or gun and you have Gordon Freeman.
Mature anime and Studio Ghibli are available in North America, and there's plenty of manga.
So I'm covered when it comes to Japanese pop-culture. I don't need very many of the video games.
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Let's Face It...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by pcengine92
Both sides (East and West) are, generally speaking, are beating a dead horse. Japan is still releasing RPG's with tired formulas, and on this side we are still making FPS's like crazy. But eventually, The FPS and Zombie genre games will thin out and attract a smaller market. It's inevitable. Just like platformers ruled the old 8/16/64-bit days, FPS games own the market now, but will eventually be replaced within the next generation or two by another genre.
Here's a novel idea: How about if major studios from both sides actually sat down at the table and collaborated on a game together to see what could be? (I don't think this has been done before, but I could be wrong). Who knows, there could be a whole new genre coming out of that, which would be a truly refreshing sign of things to come. Just my 2 cents.
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Hm, I don't really agree..
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by smokeyflea
Fair enough article, but I don't really agree..
Capcom and Konami, two of the biggest Japanese publishers are hands deep in Western developers for some of their biggest franchises. I see more Western influence from Japan than ever, really.
Yeah, there is an entire gammut of Japanese games that don't come out in America (that moe-related garbage that stocks the majority of the PSP shelves, here) but that doesn't indicate a distaste for Western games.. Western games are getting better and better, really.. Japan knows this, that's why they're obsessed with acquiring western studios.
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Capcom and Konami
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BetardxFoosier
Both of these companies have had a lot of flops recently. Lost Planet 2 was a huge one, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 didn't sell the best, and the Deca Sports, Winning Eleven, and other Konami franchises aren't doing the best either. They're releasing second rate games that aren't attracting the attention of Western gamers, since the Western developers have the room to make vast innovations in games, whereas the veteran developers are just sticking to the same formula of years past.
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To Be Fair...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by tay120n64
Capcom and Konami are HUGE studios that most commonly pump out AAA titles and have branches in other countries. A company like that, which is in a world-wide market, NEEDS to worry about what other countries like. This article is mainly about smaller developers that you've probably never heard of, because their games don't get released here unless published by X-Seed, NiS, Atlus, etc., and most commonly don't get published outside of Japan at all.
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Getting Old...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by tannis55
The reasoning that games have just been redone too many times without any revolutionary changes is a moot point. It just means your getting old and in your infinite wisdom you have seen and done some things far too often to find enjoyment from them. Think of all the coming of age gamers who just entered such a grand new world, and still have so much to see. I am 22 and I am still trying to catch up on the classics and new stuff. And of course the older you get the harder you are to please, you can see it very easily in some of the comments made.
I believe this topic is relevant to the article because if the article is to be believed the Japanese have a younger demographic who play video games. As such they dont consider some of the new releases to be creatively dead, but see them as something new and exciting. Kids grow up and get tired of simple toys like dolls and legos (most do), so too it could be that you've reached a place in your life you can no longer enjoy simple video games.
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Well said
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
It's something I've come to realize lately myself. If you break any story down to its most basic elements, everything that could be done has pretty much been done. Even more so is that true for gameplay, what with all the restrictions you have on how you can phsyically interact with a game.
Not to get too philosophical, but when you think about life itself, it's truly repetitive. We're born, we grow, we play, we learn, we work, we love, we lose, we deteriorate, and then we die. Each of us imprints a little something on the world that's unique, but the story is mostly the same. Doesn't mean there's no point. It doesn't mean we should give up on living because "it's already been done." You just to look past the repetition and enjoy the little things that make life worth living.
Games are the same way. The story might be very familiar, but the heart and soul of the people who make it is imprinted upon it. They breathe life into it and make it new, and that's what there is to love.
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Wrong assumptions, doesn't support claims...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
I have quite a few points I disagree with in this article...
Japanese games are not only made to cater to super-geeky, moe loving otaku. What a horrible notion. Look at the Resident Evil series. Zombie movies are the American staple for horror, yet Capcom has delivered arguably the best zombie based games ever made. With Resident Evil 5, the appeal to the Western gamer was made very apparent by the graphical changes, such as Chris' bulked up appearance and added realism.
"AAA" titles DO NOT sell for $40-60. Where did you get that from? Final Fantasy XIII released at 9,240 Yen [Reuters.com] and browsing eBay sellers from Japan, games like Bayonetta (~$80) and Zelda: Twilight Princess (~$85) are far above that mark well after their releases. Furthermore, even Pokemon Black and White exceed that mark at approximately $65, and that's merely for a DS game.
As for the section on Japanese Attitudes Towards Gaming, you are missing a big point. Perhaps being a "gamer" might be frowned upon, as you might be labeled as a game otaku. But being "a player of games" is not uncommon. There seems to be a lack of understanding of the complex nuances of Japanese culture here. Take for example people who read manga. A very large number of people in Japan reads manga to some extent. It's about 40% of all publications in Japan after all [An Introduction to Japanese Society, Cambridge University Press]. My host-sister in Japan had a PS2 and lots of RPGs, as well as a fair amount of manga and she would not be consider a geek or otaku by Japanese standards. In the U.S., however, she would be, because it is less commonplace here and thus there is more significance to it.
Pointing out that "Salarymen" don't have time for games is redundant. It goes without saying that anyone who works a demanding business job has less time for leisure activities. This is not completely unique. Also, how does the "Salaryman" set the trend? It is a specific sector of the job industry and doesn't set the precedent of all jobs.
Another issue that was not addressed is the concept of adulthood in Japan. You are a legal adult at 20 in Japan. Also, children remain in the home much longer than their American counterparts. Japan doesn't have the "pushing them out of the nest" syndrome like American's do. Coupled with an extremely high disposable income and relatively relaxed college expectations, there is most definitely room for gaming in the agenda.
Xenophobia of foreign games? If the Japanese are xenophobic of Western games than as a whole, American gamers are xenophobic of Eastern games now. I constantly read comments of gamers calling Japanese games trash for no other reason than the fact that they are Japanese. The issue is that cultural values are different from the U.S. and Japan. Japanese concepts often entail abstract ideas, complex relationships and heirarchies, and deep or nuanced story telling. American games tend to focus on more generic characters where the player becomes the lead. Storytelling is usually more straight forward and has less impact than the gameplay itself.
The last is the saddest in my opinion. Yes, let's blame developers for not trying to make clones of western games. There are wonderful games that are very Japanese, the best example being Valkyria Chronicles. Most likely because of the Western stigma that "games with anime graphics suck," Valkyria Chronicles sold horribly here in the U.S. But was it due to lack of quality? Was it because the game was "too Japanese?" I doubt it. Beyond it's anime stylings, the game was accessible, emotional, employed excellent controls and gameplay, and wasn't constrained by "moe" character typings. But because the game looked very Japanese, it was avoided or overlooked. When Japanese developers see that their hard work goes unrewarded, of course they are going to be discouraged from releasing in that market again. There are expenses for doing such and if there isn't going to be a profit margin in light of those expenses, there is no reason to release the game overseas.
If Japanese games are "breaking up" with the West, it's because they are tired of being told to be something they are not. It's because they are tired of doing a great job and never being acknowledged for it. It's because their neighbor across the way talks down about them behind their back. But most of all it's because of gaming media that impresses incorrect ideals onto American audiences. Articles like this only fuel the push away from Japanese games by making claims of "this is what Japan wants, not us." It turns it into a fight that doesn't really exist and creates even more of an "us versus them" attitude. I'm not going to allow myself to be pressured into this way of thinking ever, and neither should anyone else.-
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wow just wow
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Alpha_Nerd
This is so intelligently written and researched and it conveys everything I have felt as a western gamer who has always played eastern games. I wish i could shake your hand sir (or maam) because you truly get what absolutely noone in the west seems to get these days.
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Thank you
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
I just couldn't help but write this...I feel like Japanese games are just getting trampled on anymore and it really saddens me...
But it does make me hopeful that there are still people who care. Thank you again for your comment.
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Great post
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by kevinfauteux
You comments on Xenophobia and how it's less that Japanese games are simply "breaking up with the west" but leaving an abusive partner are wonderful. I generally try to get people past the prejudice against Japanese titles. I've known quite a few people that wouldn't have normally picked up a title like Valkyria Chronicles but once I point them to the great game beneath those anime graphics, I haven't found a single person who didn't like the game. The problem is getting people to see past these preconcieved notions and getting them to venture out of what they think is their comfort zone.
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....
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by San_Andreas
...Valkyria Chronicles really is something special. It has a pretty mature theme - a re-telling of WWII, complete with themes you don't see in a lot of other pieces set during this time period. The liberation of Fouzen, a concentration camp, being one of them. There aren't a whole lot of realistic WWII games that depict the liberation of Auschwitz, if any, because this would probably raise an outcry from all kinds of people (Six Days in Fallujah, anyone?) VC can get away with this because of its more fanciful nature, but it doesn't make light of it.
It's very much a turn-based Japanese-style strategy RPG, but they also paid attention to a lot of other trends in gaming. Its third-person behind the shoulder POV creates more tension of making your way through a battlefield because unlike in traditional SRPG, you don't have an omniscient view of the action and are subject to being ambushed if you're not careful. The scouts have a really important role in battles. There are also a lot of cover-based mechanics involved, and for the most part, they're implemented pretty well. At least one mission is focused on them. Your object isn't to defeat all enemies in this battle, it's simply to slip through the enemy lines and make it out alive.
And no, it's not bogged down in "moe" conventions. The characters are adults, under the leadership of an intelligent, cool-headed, mature CO. There are none of the histrionics associated with the mass-market anime we see over here. This game is anime only in appearance, and it's reminiscent more of Miyazaki than anything else. It's very well-animated. Would it have sold better if it had used a realistic, Uncanny Valley style? Probably not. Strategy games that aren't called Starcraft are niche products all around. But it's one of the most visually amazing games I've ever seen, and cel-shaded games seem to have a better graphical shelf-life than more realistic games. The PS2 FF, GTA, and MGS games show their age compared to today's tech, while games like Wind Waker, DQVIII, and Okami still look incredible.
This was a game that recent remakes like XCOM and Syndicate could have emulated. Incidentally, a lot of the style of VC was inspired by the original 90's versions of those same franchises.
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Youkou_Kochou
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
One thing to keep in mind is your sister in Japan likely got treated better because she was a mythical "gamer gurl". In general I find coming into our ranks as a female helps in certain situations whereas "gamer guys" still put up with flak for it from time to time or are seen as generally unremarkable. (Aka ppl EXPECT men to be gamers)
For example if most guys find out I'm a gamer it's no big deal but if they find out a "cute babe" is a gamer "Holy s^it! That's AMAZING!". Sadly our opposite gender counterparts also must contend with pms that state "I have a big dick, suck it for me!" and "You belong in teh kitchen! Get meh a beerz!"
Granted, this is getting better but I'd be lying if I stated gamer stigmas no longer exist or that we don't get marginally excited (and immature) when we see "tits" above the hands clutching a controller. Part of it is merely healthy biology but admittedly many guy gamers online cannot stay "polite" "good humored" and "friendly" around a female pressence online even if their lives depend on it. I'm sure women gamers are tired of the "make me a sandwich!" insult. That shit is old ya'll.
Keep in mind I'm not generalizing everyone. I'm just speaking about those my rant does apply to.
As for everything else you said I totally agree. Japan CAN make mature story lines and deep characters. If titles such as Nier, Persona, Metal Gear, Yakuza, and Valkyria chronicles haven't proven that already "The West" must be pretty dense or looking in all the wrong places.
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Jopon (Or is that George?!)
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
Y'know Jopon I "do" see a pattern. Aka whenever the face of some 80's child celebrity or other iconic famous person is used there's usually a troll behind it! (I kidd sir, I kidd!)
Of course I should be careful about "assumptions", aye? (Flashes troll grin of my own) Ah well, I always knew I was an ass anyway. lol.
Personally I think with games such as Valkyria chronicles "the surface" is a very small part of the whole experience. Yeah, there is some anime cheese to be found but at least it delivered an innovative take on laying out a JRPG with guns and cover dynamics as opposed to magic swords and summoned elementals.
You have to admit creating a setting that is a re-telling of World War 2 while dealing with the deep issues surronding that conflict at least deserves some credit. It's a lot more profound than "Amnesia stricken god chld saves teh world...AGAIN!"
I'm not claiming Japan always "strikes gold" but they don't always put out worthless coal either.
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I wasn't criticizing the gameplay.
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Jopon
Valkyria Chronicles is one of my favorite PS3 games, and favorite SRPGs period. The setting is interesting, and the gameplay/UI is deep. But the characterizations and dialogue are so deeply rooted in anime tropes that it makes me sick. I can't recall how many times Welkin and Alicia made me groan in annoyance with their stupid lines. Why did Alicia join the army if she hates fighting so much. Why do they whine all the fucking time?
It becomes most horribly apparent in the scene where Alicia went to take on the super tank on her own, and Welkin stops her from nuking herself, and lets the tank pass. How many other men were lost because Welkin needed to save his girlfriend? I wouldn't mind it if he was ever reprimanded for that shit, but the other characters let it fly like it was the right thing to do.
tl;dr the setting and gameplay was great, the characters were paper thin.
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BrokenH
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
I think you may have missed the point in what I was trying to say. Gender wasn't of any importance in mentioning her habits, just rather the fact that even though she does those things, it doesn't mean she is a geek or otaku at all. The example could have been either gender, I just wanted to mention my first-hand experience so that readers didn't think I was making an unbackable statement.
On a side note, I am a "mythical gamer gurl" and I have never run into any of the issues you mentioned, oddly enough.
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Replies
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
Jopon: I feel ya. Persona 4 was the same for me. Aka I love the setting and adore the characters but I cannot deny Atlus's use of tongue in cheek "otaku-kawaii" cliches that pop up out of the scenery and the narrative. As much as the Persona games mirror "real adolescents with real problems" your mc is always some silver or blue haired "prodigal youth" who can kick the most ass and excel at anything he or she wants to without breaking much of a sweat. At least in P3 it delved into the fragile side of being human with the more bittersweet ending.
Still, I'm willing to put up with that cheese, bad romance, and awkward fan service so long as a J-rpg has many other redeeming qualities.
Youkou: You may not have run into"rudeness" when gaming online as a female but that does not mean it's not an issue. My female friends have told me a few "horror stories" about creepy private messages or drama in a lobby. As I stated before, It's getting "better" but we're not 100% in paradise just yet. It could also be "bad behavior" is more apt to happen in certain regions or when playing certain types of games. Admittedly quite a few of my female buds play fighting games or fpses and such competitive genres can bring out the worst in people. (Though I'm not saying such incidents occur every time)
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Jopon
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
Not letting Alicia die was very much necessary, otherwise how could Faldio's actions be justified? Faldio was being treated as a war criminal because he was willing to do anything necessary to win the war, even taking the risk of murdering a fellow soldier. If Welkin had sent Alicia off to destroy the tank, he would have been a murderer as well. Granted, every soldier knows that each day on the battlefield may be their last, but Welkin was considered exceptional because he always strived to protect his troops even in seemingly suicidal situations. While it does go against convention, Welkin was a lover of life and his will was unbreakable in accomplishing his goals by means of his choosing and his alone.
Also, I can identify with Alicia a great deal. I hate war. But I sure as hell would not stand by and let my loved ones around being attacked without fighting back. Both Alicia and Welkin value peace above all else, but they also know that they are being forced to pay a price for that peace. They are pacifists being forced to take up arms, so they choose to be reluctant to fight in their words, but not in their actions.
Anyways, that was my take on those things. I do have to admit that at times VC did indeed slip into some anime cliches. But to me they kept it to a real minimum (especially compared to VC2).
And thanks for giving me the chance to discuss the storyline with you. It's been a while since I've been able to really get into analyzing the details of a game's plot. It's always great fun. =)
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BrokenH
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't an issue. My bad. I should have said that I am lucky to have not run into that yet. But I guess I also haven't had the issue because I don't mention my gender nor do I ever use a mic on games.
Except one time when I was playing Terror is Reality on Dead Rising 2. This guy was calling me every nasty thing in the book for no reason, so I did my best to wipe the floor with him and then sent him a message that he got beat by a girl. Was that bad of me? =\
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@Youkou_Kochou
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
I really enjoyed reading your response. Ryan's article brought up interesting points about culture being a real player in the problem but it just didn't seem very accurate. More like an exaggerated skewed view from an outsider even if that's not the case.
At the same time I believe both western and eastern developers as a whole are parts of the problem when they make games that are only meant to ride on the current most successful property. The games that get all the marketing attention tend to be aimed at a specific audience. Usually what ever the current definition of gamer is. Now it's online shooters, before it was fighting games, platformers and at one point it was RPG's. The problem is as popularity increases the creativity decreases and ideas run dry.
Variety is the spice of life and anything with the artistic passion that got developers into the business will be worthwhile. Everything has already been done it's just how you present it. The article mentions how content we are without Japan. I find that to be the problem. Japan sticks to the same formula for a lot of RPG's as well as anime and manga to the point where it just melds into one blah pot o indistinguishable junk. Western developers are the same, way too many shooters with similar art styles and level designs. What we need is more creativity to spice up some of the "going through the motions" game design that we have going on and some better marketing to bring out the strengths that each side has. Then maybe more people would drop their preconceived notions and recognize the art and styles of games different cultures can provide.
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Originality is overrated...
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by Tminus
CatCouch, just asking for some ill-defined "creativity" is a step in the wrong direction. If everything has already been done as you state, then what's wrong with sticking to a few formulas? Besides, anome or manga don't stick to the same ideas anymore than western movies, shows, or books do, so singling them out just seems odd, if not unfair, to me.
I don't care if a game has familiar elements as long as they are presented well and consistantly in the game. Presentation trumps any vague sense of "originality".
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@Tminus
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
What I mean by creativity is pretty much what you said about presentation. Everything has been done and there's nothing wrong with sticking to formulas but what I'm getting at is that a lot of developers churn out a lot of games with the same bland art style. The same bland presentation. By creativity I mean games like Okami that adhere to a tried and true formula but add a genuinely interesting exterior to go with the familiar interior.
The key is making something old new again. I mean look at borderlands. It had a interesting art style and took some of the better parts of tried and true games like Fallout and added more action like most other FPS's. I want interesting new takes on old formulas like Atlus achieved with the Persona series and more recently with Catherine. The story behind Catherine isn't anything new but in the field of Video Games it's fresh.
This doesn't just apply to games but movies and music and anime as well. The more you do the exact same thing without putting in that passion or that new twist. If you don't have something to set it apart from the rest how do you expect it to succeed. So yes presentation trumps originality and that was my point.
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@CatCouch
Posted: Sep 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by Tminus
Well, as long as we agree that there's nothing wrong with tried and true game mechanics, but after that your argument gets a little muddled. Why is "bland" synonomous with "familiar"? I don't think brown and bloom western FPS games are bland because so many of them have been done before, I think they are bland becacause of their l;imited use of colours and drab realism. I'll grant that Okami was interesting, but so are any number of anime inspired games with a colourful, dynamic presentation. If you look at the history of art from the early middle ages to the late 19th century most great art was based on immitation. So familiarity when it comes to art is not necessicilary a bad thing.
Finding new ways to exploit old concepts has never really been a problem for Japanese games, but they don't really get enough credit for it, unless it's to prove soem kind of "games are art" point so self-conscious critics can justify themselves to the Roger Eberts of the world.
Many critics and players when praising Catherine or the Persona games (by witch the usually only mean Persona 3 and 4) make the mistake of equating novelty with quality. The Persona games weren't really that original or interesting as games, it's just that so few Japanese social sims have been given North American releases so critics hyped them fpr the silliest reasons. It didn't matter that Kaji was a shallow stereotype, the fact that he had (tedious, adolescent) issues with his sexuality was somehow groundbreaking even though they weren't interesting or deep. Catherine is another example. In reality, the story has all the maturity of an episode of Three's Company, without the comedic talent of Don Knotts to redeem it. Some ineffectual schmuck (who is as exaggerated and unrealistic as any male lead ina romantic comedy) has commitment issues, and can't decide between a stereotypically promiscuous "bad girl" and the ol' ball and chain. I'll take an exciting, but generic save the world story over one whose entire narrative reste on a few pretentious, modernist conceits.
That's what I mean when I say presentation is most important. Originality familiarity are ultimatly irrelevant.
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@Tminus
Posted: Sep 16, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
Bland is not the same as familiar. I'm not sure what your getting at though. Your saying FPS's are bland because of their limited colors and drab realism. Wouldn't that be a problem with the presentation? The games may be technically sound but uninteresting otherwise and that's the point I was making with the "going through the motions" game design approach.
I think the word we're both really mean is generic. Familiar covers too much ground and what may be bland to one person is familiar to another. I love the anime art style while a lot of people find it to lack detail or say it all looks the same. It’s not bland to me but it is familiar and I like that. I do find military shooters to be bland but not every one does. The point is neither are inherently generic, you can do amazing things with both but no matter what not every one will like it.
What I’m having a problem with is why you are taking apart games like Persona and Catherine. Persona as a series (but more so with 3 and 4) and Catherine are great examples of taking familiar tried and true elements and putting them together in more interesting ways. In other words the presentation is fresher. Those games, including the first Persona, are well accepted because they have broader appeal as well, they were more heavily marketed here and Japan. They are higher quality games too, at least to me. Of course if you pick apart the games the individual parts don't stand up but that's what makes them interesting. The sum is greater than the parts. The presentation boosts Catherine above just a frustrating puzzle game with a story attached. Persona is more than just a dungeon hack with a social sim grafted on.
Why are you so quick to dismiss my point? I think your letting your personal taste get in the way, you stated that Persona is not original or interesting. Why? It’s not interesting because Japan has a lot of social sims? Of course it’s not original, It’s made up of very separate parts, sometimes that’s also a problem like with how divided the game is between dungeons and the social aspects. I take it you don’t like Persona and Catherine much. Or at least consider them overrated. You say in your last paragraph that presentation is most important but attack Catherine for it’s story and characters because they don’t seem to fit your personal taste. What about Catherine is bad presentation wise? I loved it and it seems you didn’t which might be a problem. Not everyone will like everything so while I consider Catherine’s presentation, including characters and story along with the game play, one of the best and most fully realized in gaming you don’t because you don’t like the concept.
Your correct that like most art through history, imitation is where most art comes from. What I’m saying is that imitation can be both good and bad. We agree that Okami is a good example of imitation. It took Zelda and added a interesting brush stoke art style and incorporated that into the game play, the concept felt fully realized. On the other side there are games like Two Worlds which imitated Oblivion but didn’t do a good job. It’s bad for a number of reasons but the art style and game play just make it feel like a generic clone.
Anime and manga fit into the picture because they are so closely related to games, much more so than movies and T.V. are. Anime very rarely has mass appeal and one of the reasons is how closely it sticks to tried and true formulas. It’s not exactly bad that it stays in the same area but it could be so much more. The use of sex is probably the biggest crutch now, before it was giant robots. There are great shows but the appeal is lower when a lot of it is advertised with sex. Point is if your not in the target demographic, which is fairly small in the west, then you will never really get a chance to like it. It never really represents itself as anything more. Now not everything is that way. I got my family to watch and like Eden of the East since it has a 24 like vibe. Spice and wolf takes a more modest approach and that pays off. Rin is good too but still jams a lot of sexual violence it but at least it’s justified in the story. Now it’s not a case of what I personally like or not it’s that, somewhat like games, the familiarity gives rise to the generic. Once there are ten or more shows/games that I can’t tell apart because the art style and character designs are the same or the presentation does a poor job of differentiating itself from the rest and showcasing it’s strengths I just stop caring. Why should I put up the same thing over and over because it became more about making money than creating something you can care about?
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This is a good article
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by DarkSideSol
And I agree Japanese games seem to be built for a younger generation. I can see why their game technology lags behind the west since they have focused their attention on the handheld which are not graphically intensive systems (at least not until recently).
The distinction of there not being a real market for adult gamers in Japan will continue to affect the games that come from there. Gaming in America seems to be a very adult pursuit with most real gamers in the states being men from 18-40 or so.
It's a shame though, because in my youth Japan made some of the coolest fighers and RPGs in the world and I miss the days of games like Final Fantasy being relevent in the states. I never realised that the control schemes had diverged so poorly between the west and the east and that also holds back Japanese games here. Game like Metal Gear and Resident Evil feel strange compared to traditional dual analogue games here in the US.
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Too Bad
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by orinomega
I really enjoy japanese made games. To me, all these call of duty games and the like are becoming shovel ware. I know the kids likem and all but I have played one or two and that was it for me. I got bored. Thats why I'm sad to see japanese games not coming to the US (Xenoblade). I could just be getting old though, I remember when Halo came out. I thought it sucked but I guess I was the only one who thought so (Time splitters 2 was way better). I have enjoyed those wacky japanese games since the NES days. Oh well, maybe its time to go outside.
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Can you at least...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Rennik_Repotsir
...provide an English option for importers? I really don't care what language the audio tracks are...
Western games lack... charm...
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Not ok w me
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by catgirl147
Japanese games are just my thing, tend to hate the Western versions of the JRPG's I so love. So have resolved to learn Japanese and import from now on. Tales of Xillia just arrived in my mailbox yesterday, so thats it. Lets go. Bring on the moe.
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Carly
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
Don't worry Carly. A lot of these articles "hype up" this sort of thing out of proportion. However, I admit this one was better written than most. It least it wasn't outright attacking Japan or throwing around how "The West" is now superior.
I want more games out of Japan too. The xenophobic detractors of bro game love can damn well have their COD (and nothing else) but I want no part of that scene!
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Poor Final Fantasy...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by jamers2.0
I read a few of the comments slamming this article, but I actually found that it opened my eyes a bit. I've been complaining for years about the direction the Final Fantasy titles have taken in their character designs, but it makes a bit more sense after reading this.
I loved JRPGs (still do? The framework and old ones, anyhow) when I was growing up in the '80s and early '90s. Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy on the NES were my bread and butter, but after several Final Fantasy titles, the developers appealing to the Japanese teen "jet set" became quite apparent, with title after title starring androgynous, porcelain-skinned, wacky Justin Beiber-haired teenagers with stupid clothes that no one in their right mind would wear (and not just on account of taste, mind you; these things made no practical sense at all. Look at Tidus).
I love Final Fantasy, but I always find myself saying, "Why don't they bring back something like FFIV or FFVI instead of some J-pop runway circus with some weird "weapons" out of a bad Godzilla movie showing up and telling us that the good blue lifeforce is being threatened by the bad red energy? (*Okay, I don't really say that, and I think I just combined a bunch of Final Fantasy complaints in my head. Also, I realize this demand is totally unrealistic. Why the hell should Japanese developers cater to me instead of the native audience that apparently wants just what they're putting out? I was actually impressed with FFXIII's Lightning; finally a badass, likable main protagonist, and the first female since FFVI's Terra. A welcome change after worthless pretty boy douches likes Tidus and Vaan. Don't even get me started on Vaan---he did nothing in the entire story).
Anyhow, obviously I've gone off on a tangent here. The point is, after reading this article, I can dig it a bit more: they don't give a shit about people like me who are saying, "Eff these androgynous weak-ass teen heroes. Where are the warriors? These guys are supposed to be saving the world... shouldn't they at least pretend to be badasses?" That isn't their style. They're catering to an audience of Japanese teens who actually do style their hair like Tidus and wear wacky-ass shorts with one mesh pantleg. That's how they roll.
I guess I just miss the old days when we had Cecil and Shadow and Magus to play with, instead of Tidus and Hope and some kid from Rag Fair.
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Games are to pretty....
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by yummyjibblybits
"One designer at a high-profile JRPG maker told us of the time he brought Bioshock into the office. While the younger members of the company were impressed, a high-ranking and well known producer played the game for thirty seconds, declared, "This game feels cheap," dropped the controller on the desk and walk away without another word."This is the problem with game production these days....There is far to much focus on how a game looks then how it plays. For example Battlefield 3, all the hype is that this game looks gorgeous ( and dont get me wrong it does ) and yet no one seems to care how the game will actually play out.
For me going back and playing the classics such as ocarina of time and metal gear solid ( no Japanese reference intended ) are just as fun now as they were 15 years ago!! As for the above reference Bioshock is one of my favorite games of all time...it didnt look fantastic but it was just so in dept that I could play it ten times over and find something new every time to love about the game! :-)
Bottom line...less focus of looks more and gameplay/story!!!! :-)
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In my opinion, both Bioshock and Ocarina of time suck
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by guillermo_gage
because I'm weird like that.
I haven't played a Metal Gear Solid game yet because most of them are on PlayStation, and I only owned a PS1 for a few years around 2001-2005.
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Old Proverb
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Proudmoore
There's an old Western gaming proverb, doom owns: literally, "doom owns."
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Completely unfounded guess work
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by SlowAndSteady
Sorry but I find this article hard to believe. I have lived in Japan for five years, work in a real Japanese company, have real Japanese friends and I find all of the "facts" you are writing in here extremely general stereotypes and completely unfounded (Wikipedia doesn't count as a source, by the way).
The issue here is simple. Japan just hasn't come out with anything people in the west are dying to play. They have trashed their own market with ridiculous sequels and have thus damaged their image for making great games. There was once a time when Japanese games were exciting and rare to behold. They were different and inspiring. Japan took all of the things we thought were "fresh and exciting" and ran with it. Ran with it until there was no more to run with.
Now Western games are the new and exciting venture. But for how long? Already there is a ludicrous amount of sequels to already great games (Do I really need to give you an example? Look at ANY article on 1up and it's about a sequel). And the sequels to great games are just being copied by other companies making similar games which in turn have their own sequels. The market will saturate and no one will care about Western games anymore. And the cycle renews itself.Cut the stupid crap about Japan's society and culture being a major factor. That's bogus. A LOT of people play games in Japan. That's a fact. Just because someone doesn't shout "I'm a gamer" or "I play games" at the top of their lungs doesn't mean that they don't. Yes, it is considered nerdy to announce one's self as a gamer because that infers that ALL you do is play games. It is already generally understood in Japan that almost everyone plays video games - there is no need to state the obvious. Why do Americans have this ridiculous concept that unless you pronounce yourself a "gamer" you don't play video games? Very bizarre.
Also, niche games have been in Japan for years and years and years. They had no cosequence on western gamers 15 years ago and no one cares now.
Oh, and what's this about complaining how they don't bring games over anymore? They never did anyway! It's not like this is a new development. Remember Final Fantasy 2, 3 and 5?? How about Sin & Punishment on the 64 (save for the only recent release of it on the Wii Channel)???-
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Finally...
Posted: Nov 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by Angela7F
Someone who actually is in japan.
I agree with you totally.
i think in Japan, gaming is so intergrated into people's lives that they don't have to label themselves a gamer.
If you still desparatly need to find a "Gamer" go to 2 Channel and you will find plenty there.
As for the cultural report, what a load of bogus!!!
Japanese companies encourage people to go home early, and enjoy life.
There those who chooe not to, but not because of peer and social pressure.
Such an outdated sterotype.
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Come on, 1UP!
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Hunterman328
You guys need to not publish articles just for the sake of it. This was nonsense.
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give it some time...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by ChaironDeCeleste
and japan's working hours will be in full transition from 13+ daily to 8 - 4, 8 hours.
The economy changes slowly there, step by step and it will not take forever until that has an impact on japanese leisure habits as well.
People there are already sick and tired of the high suicide and divorce rates .
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how many games dose it take
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by invidcyborg
I can list a bunch of JRPG games that I had fun with. I just know I hated the days of wanting to play JRPG's and had to pay an excrucitaing amount of money just to get a game I can't read. I guess they are on the way back.
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I know Why
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by n0gar
Japan has lost it once games went from 2D to 3D. In addition, Japan likes to come with ENDLESS sequels which we get tired of. They seem to like doing the same thing over and over again and always find it fun - we do not! Japan simply did not change with the times. Their graphics are outdated as well as their characters. They STILL make fighting games and Nintendo keeps using the same OLD characters and acting as if something has changed just because you call a game "Super Duper Mario X" or "Zelda:Experience" or "The Final, Final Fatasy" does not mean that we get excited.
First-person shooters, sports and GTA rule right now. It is no longer about Mario, Mega Man, Final Fantasy, RPG's or any of the stuff they were able to dominate the US with during the 80's, 90's and early 2000's. Many Japanese games suck online and a company like Capcom keeps rehashing titles and reselling them as something new. If they want to get back in, they need to come with something NEW! A new type of character doing something NEW with a NEW objective.
There was once a time when we wanted all from Japan and they made the best games, now we could care less and now Americans make the best games. For some reason, Americans could not hang in the 2D world, but they get down in the 3D world. Japan were masters in the 2D world, but are just getting by in the 3D world. The point is, they never change...
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you're so wrong
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by RitsukoReturns
its NOT even funny! kid! just because. YOU don't like fighting games and etc doesn't mean nobody buys them!!!
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you do know ...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by ChaironDeCeleste
... that there a endless series here people don't ever get tired of - just maddening ;)
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Broaden those perspectives
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
Funny, I recently picked up BloodRayne Betrayal, a great 2D game from OVER HERE. Likewise Japan still comes out with good games if you know where to look. There really isn't a "master" of 2D or 3D right now.
You must remember many people don't like fpses and GTA. Granted we're outnumbered by those who do but eventually "little fan boys" will catch on to the fact we recycle and regurgitate just as often on the home front they do in Japan.
Personally I "do" still enjoy the occasional fps but it has to be something a bit different such as Bio shock, Borderlands, or Half Life 2. "Call Of Duty" never really made me quiver with excitement. If you wanna talk about a series with more dlc and iterations than Street Fighter 4 there's your answer.
Can't be the pot while calling the kettle black!
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This is disturbing yet intriguing
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by SacrificAbominat
Though I am probably used to the moe aspects present in Japanese games I've never thought of it as a "Oh my god that is so wrong" issue. It's not really a big deal to me if a game has juvenile characters which the developers got a little caried away with. My problem though is that a game consisting of only juvinile characters who don't have any respect for decency can be an intsant "No way am I buying this one" to me. Though there is one thing that disturbs me even more with a lot of American games which is sort of the opposite of moe. Seriously how many American games have children in them, and if they do how many of them aren't consistently in the background. In fact how many American games have a child protagonist in lue of a masculine male protagonist these days.
Well anyway it's also disturbing to hear that gaming is considered a child-teenager's hobby in Japan. Games are still considered inferior to movies in most cultures, but giving it up because the culture you are in thinks it is childish is just rediculous. I'd say in a few years gaming will be a hobby for everyone to enjoy just like movies are today.
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I agree about the characters
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
I don't have that much of a problem with most Japanese characters, but games like Hyperdimension Neptunia seem kinda ridiculous to me. It feels like it's sexualizing young girls just for the sake of it. Even if it's not exactly my taste I would still rather play the game than not get here at all.
We need more variety in main characters, as you say there are not a lot of kids in western games. I really wish we could get more female leads too. And not just for sex appeal. Nothing wrong with strong burly soldiers now and then but we have too many of them. Games like the Persona series seem to work well and have wider appeal. Variety is the key word.
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The only reason why I would get Hyperdimension Neptunia is...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by SacrificAbominat
because it parodies the gaming industry. Other than that it really falls under my "No way am I buying this one" category.
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Am I the only one...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by brainling
...who couldn't care less? I mean, I get it, a lot of my childhood was filled with Japanese games too, but lets face it, the world has moved on. People talk all the time about Call of Duty as if it's the only thing the west has produced. BioShock, Little Big Planet, Heavy Rain, Portal, Half-Life, Diablo just to name some of the innovators. That's not even including the high-quality "yah, me too" crowd like Gears of War, Fallout, Deus Ex, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, StarCraft and the list goes on and on and on. Basically titles that may not have changed any genres or innovated much, but are so tight and polished that they just make some of the stuff being imported from Japan look half-hearted and unprofessional.
Lets also not gloss over the incredibly rich western indie scene, which is producing more innovation than anything coming out of Japan right now. Super Meatboy, Torchlight, Breath of Death and C'thulu Saves the World (the best "J"RPG's in years, that weren't even made in Japan), World of Goo, Brade, Minecraft, Mount and Blade, VVVVVV, Pixel Junk Shooter, Geometry Wars, and again the list goes on and on.
The long and short of it is this: For a majority of the worlds gamers, western game quality has simply passed Japan by. Japan doesn't want to hear it (yo-ge kuso-ge and all that crap). Japanese game fans don't want to hear it, because they are stuck in 1992 when the only good games really did come out of Japan. They also keep screaming Call of Duty, "SHOOTER SHOOTER SHOOTER" at the top of their lungs like it invalidates the masses and masses of quality the west has put out in the last few years not named Call of Duty, and not a shooter.
That's not to say Japanes game companies aren't still producing high quality games for Japanese fans, but as the article states, most of it doesn't appeal to a large majority of us anyway. The stuff they are importing as of late has been of lesser quality and in some cases emberassingly bad (the No More Heroes HD remake? Eeeouch, what a mess). That's also not to say the west isn't still laying plenty of turds and rehashes as well, we are. But for the majority of non-Japanese gamers, the gaming world has simply passed Japan and it's exports by. And everyone seems okay with that (I know I am). So Japan can have it's Moe and it's Otaku and it's uhh, whatever other words they want. I'll be happily enjoying Diablo III when it comes out. Yo-ge kuso-ge indeed.
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If you read the last sentence
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Naphtali
it read: "the vast majority of consumers around the world seem to feel just fine about the current state of affairs." So I don't think you're being much of a maverick there. Also, anointing C'thulu as the best jrpg in years? I know jrpgs have fallen on hard times but I don't think that 1995 battle system wrapped in genre trope based humor counts as a savior. I mean it's not like Radient Historia or Xenoblade don't exist. I think the "Yo-ge kuso-ge" part of the article really ruffled your feathers. Stay salty my friend.
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indeed @ brainling
Posted: Oct 01, 2011 12:00AM PST by sj420
" a lot of my childhood was filled with Japanese games too, but lets face it, the world has moved on. People talk all the time about Call of Duty as if it's the only thing the west has produced."
QFT
Let us all silently weep for the Legend of Dragoons, Front Missions, True Final Fantasy's, Bahamut lagoon's, Ogre battles....
True gaming has been dead for a long time.
We can only hope that someday we all get our shit together.
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Great article.
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Mr_Nasty_Time
I think Japanese gaming is in a strange place now, but you gotta hand it to the people who placed the defibulator on the bare chest of gaming, and brought it back to life.
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Choice
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by bakasora
Make a FPS, sell 1 million units.
Make a JRPG, sell 100k units.
Which would you choose?
(Scenerio only apply on west)
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what westren developer
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by RitsukoReturns
makes a JRPG for the west?
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I don't think it's Moe or no way
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
I admit I don't know enough about Japan to truly argue the points in the article and I won't, but I don't think that it's all a matter of social constraints. The article makes it sound like it's so unacceptable to play games past the teenage years that only geeky social outcasts keep the industry alive. Wouldn't that make games a niche market? How could Square-Enix justify all the time and money spent on Final Fantasy 13, or any AAA titles for that matter, if no one can admit they would even play it?
This article has made me think more about culture being more of a reason and made me realize I probably don't understand a lot of the factors in play with this article. But I think that the unwillingness to change and the refusal to learn from the competition (western games) are bigger problems.
Why we regressing back to when the world was not as global? Why aren’t we, including western developers, trying to branch out more? The Moe thing sounds like an excuse to justify not moving forward. Anime and Manga fall into the same category. Everything is not just as good like the claims. A lot of Japanese games fall into a rut where they don’t advance the controls and mechanics enough. Anime falls into guilty pleasure territory for me, for every Eden of the East there are ten Queens’ Blade’s and High School of the Dead‘s.
Barnacles earlier post listed off all the reasons Japanese games have failed him like that was the whole reason and I feel everyone is over simplifying something that’s as complicated as this. Sure all these problems brought up are most likely contributors but everyone seems content to say that Japan is the odd man out. That they don’t conform like the rest of the world does but aren’t we western gamers and developers doing the same thing. We make tons of FPS’s because that appeals to us but not to Japan. We never seem to make anything with Japan in mind.
I just feel the problem is everyone’s too stubborn to work in a truly global way. To fix what’s wrong instead of just going our separate ways and complaining about each other. Why can’t we localize games during development or at least outsource ahead of time. Stop bashing each others games and work together or at least with each other in mind.
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I know an old proverb too...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Anomaly
"Once a ruthlessly cruel, Nazi-affiliated nation, always a ruthlessly cruel, Nazi-affiliated nation".
It literally means that Japan is a ruthlessly cruel, Nazi-affiliated nation.
There, I can make outdated, sweeping generalisations too.
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The moral of the story...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by BadShaman
The gaming industry has become a giant pussy factory. Seriously, nobody wants to try anything new. Nobody wants to get out of their comfort zone, NOBODY WANTS TO EXPLORE.
FPS GAMES? ALRIGHT YOU GOT IT AMERICA!
METROSEXUAL BOYS WITH BIG SWORDS? NO PROB JAPAN!
Nobody is inoccent in this argument. Everybody is just pussying out, and this generation of games has also been losing and killing genres. Seriously, aside from Mario Galaxy, what OTHER platform game has been released? Survival Horror games have been suffering too, now you got BIG ASS GUNS to help you take down those zombies.
Speaking of which, ZOMBIE GAMES ARE OVERRATED. THEY'RE NOT CUTE, THEY'RE NOT SCARY, THEY'RE JUST OVERDONE.
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All about the benjamins....
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by spiritgate
Seriously, there IS no other reason. right now thats what sells. Yeah, its very sad to say but its not just publishers and developers who are to blame. the REAL BLAME falls squarely on US.
As consumers, weve gotten to into games like WoW and CoD, and the japanese case they want Monster hunter and effiminate boy simulator. weve made them multi-billion dollar games and told everyone that "THATS WHAT WE WANT" and so the industry as a whole tries its hardest to comply. unfortunately, because we also want the best graphics and tech to play those games on, weve made the costs skyrocket and made it so a developer's lifespan could be just a SINGLE GAME.
and when thats all youve got, are you seriously gonna try something thats unproven? the way i see it, its EVERYBODY's FAULT. we made our industry the way it is, we made it run by corporate shills who care nothing for innovation unless it makes billions, not millions, of dollars. becuase we make CoD sell like its going out of style year after year, that and every fucking clone some dime store dev can make is what were stuck with.
seriously, im sick of "bro games". im sick of FPS or even the term at this point. if it even remotely has something to do wih the military i think it should burn in the pit from whence it came. i think were better than that and this. but until the market says "ENOUGH!!", this is how it will be.
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Yep, pretty much.
Posted: Nov 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by TerryTorres
But things'll work out in the end, right?
There'll always be developers who want to make that special game that doesn't fall into this categories. And then they go under. But at least we get the game, and at least they inspire other developers to try and then fail spectacularly!
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@Teh very bottom....
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by AkaiNeko4
Unfortunately, Mr. Parish – and understand that I really don’t like saying this – it’s not nonsense. Hyperbole? Yes. But teh spirit of teh comment is pretty much dead on. Certainly, there are plenty of great gaming experiences to be had here in the West; for all that I hate what its kind is doing to our industry, I love COD4, and don’t get me started on Gears of War or Mass Effect. But by and large, across my entire life, the pieces of entertainment and art that have done teh most for me – made me laugh, cry, scream, shout, or whatever other response you want to throw out – have been Japanese.
And while I don’t totally agree with nipsen, he(? she? it? they? other?) has a point; we have yet to see an article on what’s happened to teh Western part of teh industry to cause this all. My theory? As teh West has slowly picked up all teh slack it dropped in’83, teh supply of Western games has slowly improved; at teh same time, “nerd” culture over here has opened up and loosened up (i.e., my love of anime no longer makes my parents ashamed of me, and they’ll actually admit that some of it’s really good), which has cause an increase in customers. However, teh stigma against Japanese stuff is still very real (xenophobia is very much present here, as well), and though it’s going away, it’s not fast enough; thus, all those new customers shun Japanese products and snap up Western games – which, by and large, are crap. Way too many Call of Duty mimics, and sports series that should really only be updated every 5 years or so.
So, ya. I, for one, am not happy with this state of affairs (by which I mean teh increasing tendency to not bring games over here) – Demonbane and Princess Waltz just got released over here, and there’s an honest to God chance that Fate/stay night will finally – FINALLY – follow suit! I don’t want this source of awesomeness that’s been with me my entire life to dry up. Sorry if this rambled a bit, but this pretty well sums up my feelings on the matter.
....and does anyone knoe what those girls up there are from?
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Nah.
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by barnacles
There's a new American proverb. "Japanese games have mostly turned to shit or gimmicky niche stuff that gets old fast. And that's ain't worth $60 most of the time. Good riddance. "
The Star Ocean, FF XIII, Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remant have all been either tedious, buggy, or just BAD. Kingdom Hearts has devolved into something so complicated and stuffy that only a fan can love it. MGS IV was a fan-service mess. Catherine was a weird puzzle thing with a story that I neither related to nor found funny and I really don't care if I never see another game like it again. El Shaddai is a mishsmash of Enoch and nonsense. It has an insultingly minimalist combat system, and visually rips off tron. Bleh. Shadows of the Damned felt to me exactly the way that Duke Nukem Forever and Bulletstorm felt to their detractors. No More Heroes is an awkward mess of a game and I got tired of the nostalgia and cheap Tarrantino schtick by the second boss fight. This stuff is no longer impressing me. Whint Knight Chronicles was medicore. Demon's SOuls was interesting but lost it's fun fairly quickly. Lost Planet 2 was worse than the original. Quantum Theory was garbage. I had a mixed response to Nier. Why did I have to play it twice to gett he real ending? What's with mixing bullet hell into a top down action dungeon crawler? Metroid: Other M was a another mixed bag. I lreally iked the revamped gameplay for the most part but the story was bad and the cutscenes that old it were bad too. The constant Samus whining voice over was a like a tranquilizer.
Other than Lost Odyssey, Valkyria Chronicles, RE:5, and Bayonetta I consider j-games this gen to be kind of a sad bust. I guess I really liked the Mario Galaxy games. But for every good one there seem to be five or more disappointments. J-style has generally become boring and for the most part I just don't care about these games anymore or respect their creators. The novelty has more than worn off.
I'd like to try Xenoblade and Last Story but Nintendo says no. Oh well.
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INTERNET ARGUMENTS
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Sephiroth001
FOR PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
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your missiing the point, and your angry.
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Ju-Nice
That proverb is BS no one says that. Ur frustrated and it seems to me like you didnt read the blog, your focusing only on the part were Japanese consider our game "shit" stealth was right, generalizations abound.
We alll have an opinion, remember that. tell ur moms I said hi.
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I guess this is the problem
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
talking generalizations is not that helpful. I don't think it's as simple as western gamers hate eastern games an visa versa. The article might be over simplifying the matter but brings up some issues that were not in the spotlight before.
@barnacles: It seems to me like you missed the point if your response was to list off everything you don't like about specific games. It makes it sound like you believe western games are untouchable since you didn't mention them. Yes, I share your views about a lot of problems in those games and I feel games have become more stale as of late but that's what the article was about. Starting off by saying "nah" seems to mean that you don't believe the article and blame the problem on you not liking certain games. Comes off as narrow minded to me.
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I think..
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by octoberfleshed
it's the lack of hip hop themes in our games, considering the Japanese can't get enough of that, put some Kanye West (or any rapper) in ALL of our games and have some ridiculous out of place dance moves...and the Japanese may in fact become interested in Western games (and will be influenced by some of the mechanics that have become Western staples, as of late).
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Bravo!
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Tetsuyo
A very interesting, and very well written article. I always appreciate when a writer chooses to delve into the cultural side of a problem when they could have easily just gone with the numbers.
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This article is misleading.
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by DackDavros
I know it's boring, but a large factor in the decline of the Japanese gaming industry, if you want to call it that, is economic and demographic. The economy of Japan as a whole has been moribund for years and is not showing any promise of recovery, leaving your average Japanese with less disposable income in the face on an expensive hobby. Combine this with the low birthrate in Japan and you are left with a shrinking market. One in which the largest sector, young kids, is shrinking fastest of all. Waffling about moe and societal perceptions of gaming is all well and good, but they are side issues when, as usual, the real issues come down to hard, boring numbers. Yen, average ages and population.-
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Thank You!
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Wakkawipeout
This is what we need to be looking at as far as the decline of Japanese gaming.
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Can someone tell me...
Posted: Nov 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by kgptzac
... what exactly is the "decline of the Japanese gaming industry" is referred to? Is that the company's ability to make profit (albeit in Japan and only in Japan)? Or is that they fail to come up with title that you think is interesting?
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Wizardry and Ultima
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by ArcDerek
I find it ironic that western games kickstarted the gaming industry in Japan only to have that industry turn around and declare, "yo-go kuso-ge."
However, when it comes to making a product, you always have to keep your intended audience in mind, and for this reason, I see no fault in what some Japanese game developers are doing when catering to Japanese gamers. It's not a wonder that they don't perform well in western markets but, as this article portends, the Japanese developers seem okay with that. Afterall, worldwide success is only considered a "bonus" on top of domestic succes.
But, I see a big problem when large Japanese developers are making AAA titles that are designed specifically to cater to Western markets and that end up falling flat on their face because of misunderstood gaming mechanics. These developers need not be coddled. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Square exec who threw down his controller upon playing BioShock for 30 seconds; they seem to have placed their trust in the belief that Call of Duty is representative of a western blackbuster and that, SOMEHOW, Final Fantasy would be able to conform to that formula.
But hey, there's nothing wrong with experimenting. How else do you find what works? That being said, if you are deliberately ignoring your competition in the world market based on a proverb, then not only are your own products going to be inferior for your intended market, but you're also denying yourself a chance that, hey, maybe, you'd actually have fun playing them too if you could look passed your own stubborness.
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Jrpg/Rpg have always been relatively niche
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Sandpark
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games
It isn't only jrpgs. Most rpgs in general excluding mmos don't sell over 1million. There are only a few others that hover around the 3 million mark. There is really only 3 IPs that climb to the 5 million mark and beyond on a frequent basis. And guess what rpgs, or should I say jrpgs those are?Zelda, Dragon Quest, and Final Fantasy. All made by japanese developers.
There are the occasional gems on boths sides of the ocean that break the mold once. But usually they falter on any preceding titles. Rpgs have not sold ridiculously well in the US especially. So I can see why Nintendo is hesitant in bringing Xenoblade to the states. People and critics award accolades and sing praises on different rpgs. But when it comes down to spending our money. There appears an anomaly. The review sites critique and give lower scores to jrpgs for outdated graphics, or grind, or redundant this or that. Now that has come back and left a sour taste in their mouths in the form of the gem xenoblades. Which is not guaranteed to release here. Enter project rainfall. We the US gamers deserve this serving of humble pie.
People have been hating on Square-Enix lately. Do you wanna know the major reason why?Their games are not jrpg like enough. Jrpgs were the the original gta in rpg form. And Square was the Rockstar games of the jrpg genre. Over time we have seen them set new standards for consoles.It began with storytelling in the old days. Then on the ps1, they become pioneers on HQ cgi for consoles. Then on PS2 they introduced voice acting in conjunction with their HQ cgi and story.The problem this generation and every generation of consoles following from this point is.The industry has caught up on alot of levels. Some even surpassed them on some fronts. It is going to get harder and harder for them to shock and awe with technical prowess alone.
XIII got criticized for cliche or anime like story. Well the writers are japanese? How can you expect them to write a story really western oriented and do it better than the westerners themselves? Try getting a western dev to go do the opposite. The japanese will probable cringe at times too.If SE gets back to their jrpg/gta roots in their origins. And maintains the high quality production values and story. That is when they will unite both their old school cult and thier newer audiences. And Square-Enix will become once again the developer that everyone loves for the most part.
That's my opinion anyways.
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Good article...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by halochief_90
But I can't agree with the statement at the beginning saying "The games themselves are as good as they've ever been, but they're just not made for the entire world anymore."
It doesn't matter if you're from Japan. The games are not as good as they used to be. The developers are saying it, and the sales are showing it. Game sales have had a steep drop this generation in Japan, that's fact.
And haven't most of the major developers actually tried harder to make games for the entire world, even going so far as outsourcing them? Capcom, Square-Enix, Konami...
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Well
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by halochief_90
100K selling games are hardly big figures. If almost all games (yes even Japanese ones) are costing upwards of ten million dollars, where exactly is the profit in selling 100K? Those games have to rely on the West to break even. None of the consoles are a big success in Japan (compare PS2's five year numbers to PS3's five years in its cycle).
Capcom outsourced Bionic Commando and Dead Rising 2. And who could forget Kenji Inafune constantly slamming the Japanese market. Konami outsourced Silent Hill: Homcoming and Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. Square-Enix mentioned Last-Remnant and Unlimited Undiscovery being focused in the West, hence their 360 exclusivity. You didn't see this kind of stuff last generation.
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What?
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by barnacles
100,000 is not an impressive level of sales or customer interest even for Japan low production costs or not. Profitable? Sure. Popular? No way. That's a classic sign of a declining market. Super Hero comic books are way below that in the US. That's why Diney and Warner Brother make movies and TV shows and use those comics purley as licensable IP and don't care about actual publication volume. I don't think that will work very well with games though.
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Japan is a dishpan
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by yam83
This article certainly paints a pretty picture of the average Joe salaryman.
No wonder the suicide rate is so high. Man, Japan is so queer.
So many live such repressed lifestyles, yet there's so much awesome shit coming out of the same.
Incredible.
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Lol! The Japanese are correct!
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by ghost_of_gamemaster4747
There's an old Japanese gaming proverb, yo-ge kuso-ge: literally, "western games are shit."
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Nice article Ryan
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Gwynjin
I've often tried to explain how different the largest gaming demographic is in japan (mid-teens) as opposed to the US (mid-30's) to friends who bemoan how japanese games/anime rehash the same themes over and over and am usually met by blank looks. The social pressure to give up one's hobbies when entering a company (and hence becoming a member of society) cannot be understated. While it's not as bad as it was 5-10 years ago, this pressure is still definately there. I myself often get criticised by my boss for playing games - and I WORK at a Japanese game developer for crying out loud!
A lot of the issues you raise are one's I covered in a podcast a couple of years back (although we didnt get into the whole Moe issue): http://theoutcastpodcast.blogspot.com/2010/06/out-cast-episode-06-death-of-japanese.html
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Maybe the whole outsourcing thing
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Gleeokman
that's happening these days isn't so bad after all. If the Japanese developers are going to drag their asses about making games for westerners I have no problem with them allowing western developers to take a fresh shot at their popular IP's. I mean I love the Zelda series, but if Nintendo didn't want to make them anymore I'd have no issue with them just signing the series over to Retro Studios or a company of that calibur.
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Great Article!!
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by FasleCracMedEvac
This is one of the most interesting articles i read in quite a while! I always wondered what was up with Japanese gamers "taste" the past few generations
ahahahahah this cracked me up "yo-ge kuso-ge"
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The main problem is not looking in western games
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Spectreman
The old people don´t wanna see what other people are doing with games. This affect even Nintendo and explain things like the bad online presence, recicled games etc. Maybe the only solution is wait old people leaves and be replace by the yong who plays bioshock.
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oh my....
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by TygerX7
I'm sad, I do Love Jap games, I love it when FANS make the ENG version and upload it, those games are great, sure I dont love every JAP game, but believe me, after playing 30 minutes of FPS i feel like playing something with more meaning and more fun, hell I would pay 80$ for a Monster HUnter on XBOX 360, i want to play online with so many people there, the games they made like Gundam vs Gundam on the PSP was EXCELLENT! RPG games that never touched the US soil, some are great, others are a bit to much for me, but still, im gonna miss them, and im gonna end up playing them on JAP and i wont understand half of it. I WILL MISS YOU! I do hope you reconsider and we can once again go out, I will wait for you JAPAN!
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Thoughts
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
I simply think it's sad how gaming is ostracized in Japan. It seems once you become an adult being passionate about gaming labels you as some sort of "loser freak" over there. Sacrificing my videogames for golf just to come off as more respectful?! Fat chance. At least in the west it's okay to be 30 something or 50 while owning a console. (Well, so long as you're among other gamer friends and stick to gamer sites. On second thought I guess some stigmas still endure over here as well.)
Frankly I'll always love Japanese games though. I'm rather excited about Lollipop chainsaw, KOF 13, Persona 4 brawl, and I'd love to also get my grubby mits on Onechanbara Z kagura.
If Japan is gradually going to drift away I guess my money is going to go elsewhere. I cannot blame them for shying away from risky business ventures.
Hopefully I'll at least get Persona 5 and a few more vintage PS2 games before the doors completely slam shut.
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yea
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by FasleCracMedEvac
the part about adults not being able to openly express their love for gaming is ridiculous!.. and the part about 12+ hour work days on a regular basis is just straight up insane!
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DON'T EVER WORK IN JAPAN!
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Burpkidz
The worst part is, j-people work 13+ hours per day, with only 1 day off per week, with no vacations AT ALL (I mean, never ever), and still they think it's normal. When I say to my friends here that in developed countries paid vacations are stablished by law, they think it's weird.
Too much work in japan is basically what brings all the problems in this country, like the huge suicide rate, and the puny birth rate (since no one have time to have sex).
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Con...
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by BrokenH
FalseCracMedEvac: It's weird because as a teen I thought Japan was this "mecca of gaming" where creative artists, composers, and good programmers reigned supreme. I also didn't know Japan still has that silly "cut off point" when it's expected to put away the console in exchange for a suit and tie.
Burpkidz: Seems as if Japan needs a change. I don't mean to do so by infringing my culture upon theirs but it wouldn't hurt them to value their employees and cut back on labor slavery. Even if those things are traditions they're not good for people.
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Maybe It's Because Japanese Games Are Torn To Shreds When They Reach The U.S
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by VampireWicked
Japanese games anime manga & movies aren't doing so well in the u.s. because the u.s rather shove disney & WB down our throat & neglect the japanese anime fans in the u.s. I'd much rather watch Full Metal Alchmist & One Piece then JLA or buy a japanese RPG over Epic Mickey. Japanese games are so edited & butchered sometimes when they're finally brought to the u.s that few gamers enjoy them.
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Writing
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by bricewgilbert
I think a huge issue I have is what has happned to Japanese games when it comes to either the translation or writing. Just look at FFXIII. The random weird noises characters made and the terribly earnest writing made for a painful experience (nevermind the gameplay). Luckily with the budget that game had they were able to afford real lip synching. There are a handful of JRPG's that have been released since the PS2 that have overcome this issue. Even the ones that have barely do (FFXII). Despite some of the weird translations you saw in the eras prior to the PS2 the characterizations and storytelling you saw with text only games (FFIX) were perfect. I don't know the solution, but it's probably not to go back to pure text. At least not on consoles.
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A few questions...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Jopon
1. The blurb on the homepage stated "Three reasons we're being dumped, and why that's ok.", yet the article offers no postive effect coming from the supposed fact that Japanese tastes are diverging from western tastes. It's not ok that the industry that provided me with so much entertainment in my life cannot find a place in my native country and language.
2. Don't you think the globalization of culture kind of makes the ideas offered in this article seem a little...quaint? It's true that Japan has a historically isolationist culture, rapid westerization aside, but we no longer live in a world were cultural tastes can be so neatly compartmentalized. The moe/otaku phenomenon is becoming just as prevalent in western culture, if even to a lesser extent, as evidenced by the success of games like Persona 4, and the small yet ardent VN community. Stigma exists in western countries against gaming, yet we are still able to sell games. Perhaps the real problems you are alluding to are those of the fetishization of certain aspects, and if that's the case, Japan isn't exclusively to blame, for every kawaii uguu~ VN that exists, there exists three bland military shooters. I think what you mean to say is that the mainstream market is becoming inhospitable to gamers who have followed the industry for years, and of course that's not a new sentiment.
3. Will you be my boyfriend y/n?
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A few answers
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Rwinterhalter
1. It's OK because audiences on each side of the Pacific are being satisfied. With the exception of a few old school fans, and an even smaller number of western game enthusiasts in Japan.
2. Globalization is an important force, but it's easy to overstate the impact it has on cultures. Yeah there are crazy Otaku in every country in the world, but they're not present in enough numbers to change what's commercially viable in any country but Japan. You're right that Japan's not the only country that's had shifting tastes, and we've talked at 1UP about doing a similar article focusing on the west, but we just wanted to focus on Japan for TGS week.
3. No maybe option? I would say no, but that Geroge Takei avatar is pretty rad.
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Would love to see an article on the west
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
One of my problems is how lopsided this whole Japan issue is. Western developers are the same way; making games just for the west and screw the rest. Yeah it's not as bad as the screwing part but it made a nice statement that rhymed.
I feel point 2 and maybe even 3 were right on but point one seems off to me. It feels dangerously close to saying now that there are more people playing games like COD and GOW3 that don’t care about Japanese games that that's how we all feel. Yes I know that Japanese games are more of a niche market now but that seems too broad to cover the nuances. We're not talking about a genre, were talking about a one half of how we categorize developers.
It's stupid to cut out the whole eastern side of gaming because we more or less are content, I’m guessing sales wise, with our games here.
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Interesting points
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 12:00AM PST by Youkou_Kochou
@Rwinterhalter-I think I could argue that Otaku do indeed make quite the mark in the US. Sakura-con had 19,000 attendees last year and bring in about $13 million in revenue to Seattle each year. And that's just one convention. So many more have sprung up recently.
@CatCouch-The one-sidedness of what's going on here bothers me as well. If Japan is pushing away from us, I feel like we are pushing away just as hard. It's just not right to have that double standard. You also brought up a great point about the contentness of gamers. The fact that such an important source of games is being choked off should have everyone up in arms for support of Japanese developers. Competition is important and variety is the spice of life.
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Very nice
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by professor_nutbunny
This has been one the best articles I've read on here in a few months.
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..Bleh..
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by SovereignJC
If they aren't trying to appeal to our tastes anymore then stop translating and shipping out crap to us. You are just going to keep taking hits to your pockets.. Sorry.. I just could not stand FFXIII. The series is dead. DEAD. No. YOU.. Yeah you! The fanboy who is thinking or already is typing an angry reply to this. Stop. Final Fantasy is dead. They can never bring it back after whoring the crap out of it with recycled remakes. ATLUS is my only hope. I have played the Persona games and it is the only company with JRPGS that has yet to let me down. The only good JRPG games are the ones everyone is dying to play but will never make it over to the US and that is how life goes. I for one am avoiding anything else with a Final Fantasy label slapped on it from here on out. People could complain about WRPGs all being the same and are turning into more action oriented or FPS or 3rd person shooters.. Whatever. I would rather much play something I can actually understand and relate with than have to sit and listen to "fala c, la c, pulse la c." FAIL'Cie is more like it. I would rather playing DA2 again. (DAO will always have DA2 in its shadow) Yes.. It is that bad.
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okay...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Megatroid_CLAMP
I don't like most japanese games anymore, but the article is well researched and expertly written. chill the hell out. why can't they make their own games that only they care about? when it comes to music, movies, and books most countries keep to their own (unless they simply don't make one of the listed mediums). did you even read the article? You say you'd rather play a game you can "understand and relate" to but the entire article is about why we don't relate to these games anymore. lol. i'm going to go play street fighter 3 now. btw persona games are dungeon crawlers.
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@Megatroid_CLAMP
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by SovereignJC
I did read the article! Surprise! But since you are such a genius let me break it down to you on terms you can understand, k? If you make a game to cater to a specific audience like japan seems to be saying according to this article. Then.. Why are you trying to sell your product to the west who don't have much in common with said product? ..then turn around and say "the game is not for you." You honestly don't see a problem with that? A whole lot of JRPGs are torn to shreds when they hit western soil because of that.
I did say I would rather much play a game I can understand like most WRPGs (Western RPGs, had to make sure you understand that part, junior. ^^) I brought up Dragon Age and Dragon Age 2 (the second game being streamlined and not as great as the original) I just stated that I would rather play Dragon Age 2 which I wasn't too fond of rather than XIII because I can understand Dragon Age 2 and relate more to it, and because XIII, even though it was made with western gamers in mind.. flopped miserably when it came to catering to us. Do you get it now?? Good. Now go brush your teeth and get under your blankets so I can tuck you in. :)
..Oh. Persona are dungeon crawlers now? Hmm. Random battles... Check. Epic storyline... Check. Turn based combat.. Check. Stats up and Equipment management... Check. Great diaologue and character backgrounds/interactions. Check! Bad Guys with God complexes. Check! I might be mistaken but I think all of that comes in a standard RPG and what a great JRPG SHOULD be these days. Last time I checked dungeon crawling RPGs/Games as of late have been asssociated as more of a hack 'n slash genre for the most part. I had no idea the Persona series was the same as Diablo I, II, and III! Thanks for opening my eyes to that one, chief! (SARCASM) Yeah.. No. Even if you are scaling a tower, dungeon, whatever, the game is still an RPG at the end of the day.
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Umm...
Posted: Sep 15, 2011 12:00AM PST by Sinfullyvannila
You guys don't know what Dungeon Crawlers are. Dungeon Crawlers are RPGs where the goal is simply to explore a massive dungeon. Dungeon Crawlers have designed dungeons, never procedurally generated. Plot generally gets put on the back burner, but a Dungeon Crawler is not simply an RPG with no plot. Wizardy, Etrian Odyssey and Shin Megami Tensai Strange Journey are examples of dungeon crawlers. Diablo is an action/RPG with some roguelike elements. Persona, is a turn-based RPG with roguelike elements.
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come on why dont japan ****in understand?
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by totalgamer316
japan may or may not have a problem.
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Cry me a river
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Funky024
They have a serious innovative (for creating videogames) problem in Japan and their deserves to die off if they can't see that.
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24 iterations of
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by crashnburn987
Call Of Duty, Modern Warfare, Black Ops, Battlefield, and Medal Of Honor would like to have a word with you.
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@crashnburn987
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by xX_Neku_Xx
Sure there are those, but then there's every Bioware game, and Bethesdas Oblivion/Fallout games... What game has Japan produced (Other than ATLUS) that is better at telling a story than those?
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-sigh-
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Anglicdemon00
After reading this, I wish the market was a bit different their. I my self have played many games including many Jrpgs over the years. Though this explains why many japanese games that would do well here ( a few tales games to name a few) never ship here.
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The Japanese Industry Does Have a Problem
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Pacario
"The games themselves are as good as they've ever been. . ."
That is the problem--they ARE as good they've ever been, so much so that many titles feel like they were ripped right out of the 1990s. The Japanese game industry rarely pushes the envelope or innovates anymore, and instead recycles the same content over and over again, much like its anime and manga. Thus, it is indeed losing cred with the rest of the world.
Of course, Western developers are also guilty of beating a dead horse, but titles such as Portal 2, Bioshock, Heavy Rain, and Little Big Planet prove that the West is still interested in exploring the medium's deeper potential.
"The gamers have changed more than the games, and while that leaves a lot of old-school fans in Europe and the Americas out in cold the vast majority of consumers around the world seem to feel just fine about the current state of affairs."
I'd say it's just the opposite--that the Japanese are leaving themselves out in the cold through their own closemindedness. Western gamers are still at least willing to accomodate Japanese titles and don't have the instictive hatred of them that the Japanese have of Western games. And other Asian countries like China and Korea also have a growing interest in Western design philosophies. So I'd say it's Japan's loss, not ours.
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It sucks that it is that way
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Anglicdemon00
But as the arctile explained, unlike here in the west the true gaming comunnity in japan is much much smaller. With that and the normal age group that plays games the same way we do is much younger then our own, cause their gaming market to become stagant.
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When will Japan learn (to be just like us)
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 12:00AM PST by Tminus
AT first I was mad at your comments, Pacario, but after considering them for a while, I agree. After all, you have a point about Japan reclying ideas in their anime and manga. And sure, even if it has produced modern classics like Memories, Moribito, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Angel's Egg, Birdy The Mighty Decode, Paprika, and other ambitious works that only the most stubborn anti-Japanese culture fanatic would find inaccessable, that's notihng compared to groundpreaking western works like Two and A Half Men and Bucky Larson. I mean, it's not like every culture has it's share of bad and good media properties or anything.
But certainly, Japanese games have been nowhere near as "groundbreaking"TM, "boundry-pushing"TM, or "innovative"TM as titles like Portal 2 (a watered-dow sequal to a puzzle game that heavily borrowed from earlier first-person shooters), Bioshock (an easier version of System Shock 2), Heaby Rain (a point-and-click adventure which removed the hassle of pointing and clicking but added the rapterous joy of brushing your teeth to access a derivative crime story), and Little Big Planet (which innovatived the platformer by removing all challenge from it and giving it the depth of a leasurly Sunday afternoon scrapbooking session).
Nope, those silly Japanese devs have done nothing with the classic formulas besides constantly playing with and reworking it to bring about gradual, but satisfying changes and ambitious games.
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MORE JAPANESE GAMES PLEASE!!!
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Mr.LametoWatch
Otherwise, we will have nothing but FPSes, 3rd Person shooters, and sports games.
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...TT-TT...
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by Super_Dante20
We can't lose Japanese games...all we would have left is shooters...I don't only want to play shitty games. Guess I have to import all my games now.
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That's nonsense
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by jparish
The idea that western developers ONLY make shooters is as narrow as the perception that Japanese developers ONLY make games about ogling schoolgirls. Come on, this entire piece was about cross-cultural awareness and understanding. That goes both ways.
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....
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by nipsen
Seems to me the piece is a summary of every myth and exaggeration involved in gaming culture that has ever been invented on ign. It manages to explain how gaming is as well as is not involved in popular culture. Before it suggests that Japanese gamers like different games, but also don't like any games at all. Until gaming is as well as is not a large industry because Japanese gamers may or may not be exclusively hikikomori. And.. it then goes on to talk about xenophobia, as if the Japanese developers hate "the west" and western gamers, as signified by how they don't want to make Call of Duty clones.
This was not a good piece of writing, and it's so presumptuous it's honestly difficult to read through it. Imo, things like this should be kept where it belongs - on some weird internet forum for a narrow congregation of like-minded console fanatics..
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I think I agree more with nipsen
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by CatCouch
While I don't think the article was poorly written it just seemed to focus only on a few cultural factors as if that was entirely the problem. I just can't agree that only otaku or hikikomori are gamers and unless your in school it's not socially acceptable to say you play games. The article seems to exaggerate Japanese culture and imply that that's everyone. It's one piece of the puzzle. And western culture has just as many problems. We really need a western companion article.
Here’s how I see it.
We are just as stubborn in not accepting Japanese games and art here. When I was in college (for game art and design) I was told by numerous instructors to stay away from anything resembling anime, it won't get you anywhere to draw in an anime art style. I was even told my art style was getting to close to anime at times. Most students in my college seemed to have a problem with Japanese culture as well, always bashing JRPG's and such. It was an insult if someone said your art looked like anime.
Everyone thinks their opinion is fact. If they don’t like anime then all anime is crap. If they don’t like FPS’s then all FPS’s are crap. I see it in reviews pretty often. JRPG receives a low score because the reviewer didn’t the art style or something.
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Didn't like the style..
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 12:00AM PST by nipsen
..or because they didn't like the concept. And don't think a straightforward review is necessary anyway. Because those who "like that sort of thing" will know what it's about. While those who don't like it will never be sold no matter what, etc.
...I wrote a kind of alternative side-ways view of this thing on my blog if anyone wants to read it.. (..managed to make it relatively free of angry outbursts as well :p )
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From my cold, dead brain!
Posted: Nov 11, 2011 12:00AM PST by Sablicious
Unfortunately(?), the US being a 'superpower' is primarily based on their military might. To maintain acendancy in this aspect, it must have a continuous flow of people into this sector.
So, short of conscripting people into service, the only way to maintain interest in this bellicose aspect of life is to indoctrinate those so impressionable into this way of thinking; and what better way than video games? Cue: the FPS genre (and the like).
This is why the US market is so utterly saturated with innovation stifling, un-evolving, gratuitously violent, technically definct shooters--they serve a greater purpose.
I mean, you really think the Second Amendment is in the benefit of a safe and stable American society? Really...?!
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