Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: eleanorrobot on June 24, 2013, 01:54 am

Title: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: eleanorrobot on June 24, 2013, 01:54 am
*clearnet* http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/53700133097/users-bitcoins-seized-by-dea

Quote

    The Drug Enforcement Administration posted an Official Notification that Bitcoin (i.e. property) belonging to Eric Daniel Hughes was seized for forfeiture pursuant to 21 U.S.C. § 881, because the property was used or acquired as a result of a violation of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. §§ 801 et seq.)

    ...The Bitcoin address referenced in the complaint recieved a transaction for 11.02btc at 17:10:36 Blockchain time on the date noted as “seized”.

    The honeypot scenario seems more likely as the sender-address was not emptied into the “DEA” account. There is one other transaction in the referenced account, for 17.24btc which entered 5/22/13 and is transferred out 5/28/13 - It moves through one intermediary account, is then combined into a block of 200btc and moves through an account that transacts only in 100 or 200btc blocks totaling 10,100btc. Following any one of those 200btc blocks leads you to apparent “mixer” transactions, small amounts of value peeling off of the larger amount at each hop. Taint analysis reveals that nearly 10% of those bitcoins eventually pass through an address responsible for transacting more than 419,000btc since 2012

Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Tyrion Lannister on June 24, 2013, 02:01 am
holy shit ! should we start to get worried ?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 24, 2013, 02:13 am
WOW, this is crazy! and to think I only mix my coins a little. Then again, I don't come close to even 2btc lol
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on June 24, 2013, 02:38 am
It is concerning a bit now without knowing more details.

I see two aspects to this.

First, for vendors, if they are withdrawing the coins in any way that is traceable to them it would make it very easy for any unsuspecting vendor who gets coins that coincidentally were deposited into SR via LEO to get caught up.  Hopefully most vendors are taking proper precautions but surely some are taking the easy route and hoping the mixer is protecting them.

If they are tracing coins withdrawn by LEO using fake vendor accounts via SR after going through its mixing process back to their initial creation or deposit they could be traced to all sorts of different people who might've not properly concealed their identities when making the initial deposits.  If you did properly conceal your identity when obtaining the coins in the first place it should still protect you as a buyer.  But, if not, even if you've already completed your transactions this could maybe come back to bite someone.

Need more information to determine what is going on here.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: sellitall99 on June 24, 2013, 02:52 am
Has nothing to do with washing your coins, DEA made a vendor account and went from there...used the term "honey pot" probably charged alot less for product and people jumped on it, waiting for a big buyer somewhat close to where there operation was being held and went from there.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: kmfkewm on June 24, 2013, 03:04 am
Nobody knows what happened. If they made a vendor account then the customer must have finalized early.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 24, 2013, 03:09 am
Nobody knows what happened. If they made a vendor account then the customer must have finalized early.
So if they did set this up and made a vendor account, you don't think they would still just send previously confiscated drugs to start up their rep, then move to bigger product?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: CrazyBart on June 24, 2013, 03:10 am
Nobody knows what happened. If they made a vendor account then the customer must have finalized early.
So if they did set this up and made a vendor account, you don't think they would still just send previously confiscated drugs to start up their rep, then move to bigger product?

fake buys from themselves
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 24, 2013, 03:14 am
fake buys from themselves

Thank you for this.. I was sitting outside smoking a cigg earlier thinking about this very thing..
I will start a new thread for more info on fake buys.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Vyle on June 24, 2013, 03:17 am
The thing about this, is there stealing the customers money and giving BTC to Dread Pirate Roberts to make a vendor account.
Does not make any sense to me.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on June 24, 2013, 03:22 am
Nobody knows what happened. If they made a vendor account then the customer must have finalized early.
So if they did set this up and made a vendor account, you don't think they would still just send previously confiscated drugs to start up their rep, then move to bigger product?

DEA can't send out drugs.  There are a lot of things they can do but that isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: CrazyBart on June 24, 2013, 03:25 am
The thing about this, is there stealing the customers money and giving BTC to Dread Pirate Roberts to make a vendor account.
Does not make any sense to me.

A lot of things the US government does, does not make sense
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: SOUTHPAW on June 24, 2013, 03:27 am
DAMN IT!

As for any LEA they will do what ever it takes to complete their task at hand, including shipping drugs.  Then they lie, deny and demand proof.  Tis true!  :o

But unless your big time, no worries... :)

Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: hypnotick on June 24, 2013, 03:42 am
Posted this in the other thread of the same topic, but this appears to be a vendor. His nickname was, "Casey Jones" and that is a SR vendor who is in stealth. Here's his profile.

http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/user/1c0fdae424

So this in all likelihood is not a honeypot, but a vendor who fucked up. This should be a wake up call to vendors to be mindful of security.

Also, the DEA must already have this information so posting it doesn't incriminate him more than he already is.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 24, 2013, 04:14 am
Posted this in the other thread of the same topic, but this appears to be a vendor. His nickname was, "Casey Jones" and that is a SR vendor who is in stealth. Here's his profile.

http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/user/1c0fdae424

So this in all likelihood is not a honeypot, but a vendor who fucked up. This should be a wake up call to vendors to be mindful of security.

Also, the DEA must already have this information so posting it doesn't incriminate him more than he already is.

and what brings you to think this might be a dea vendor? because he/they is in stealth? I'm not trying to say you are WRONG, but If I was vending and ran out of product, I would simply go into stealth. Just more info needed to assume.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: hypnotick on June 24, 2013, 04:52 am
Posted this in the other thread of the same topic, but this appears to be a vendor. His nickname was, "Casey Jones" and that is a SR vendor who is in stealth. Here's his profile.

http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/user/1c0fdae424

So this in all likelihood is not a honeypot, but a vendor who fucked up. This should be a wake up call to vendors to be mindful of security.

Also, the DEA must already have this information so posting it doesn't incriminate him more than he already is.

and what brings you to think this might be a dea vendor? because he/they is in stealth? I'm not trying to say you are WRONG, but If I was vending and ran out of product, I would simply go into stealth. Just more info needed to assume.

Firstly, I don't believe this was a honeypot. I believe it was a vendor who was busted (profile posted above).

Anyway, if you check out the link posted by the OP you will see

Quote
DISTRICT OF SOUTH CAROLINA

13-DEA-581051, 11.02 Bitcoins, Acct.#1ETDwGUC1QcjYuehFr3u1FD3MvDaUs7SFy,

VL: $814.22 which was seized in Charleston, SC from Eric Daniel Hughes AKA Casey Jones on April 12, 2013

As you can see the person in question is known by the alias "Casey Jones". The vendors profile I mentioned above is also "Casey Jones" and that vendor is in stealth so there is a good chance that the DEA is referring to that vendor. Also, that information about the seizure is posted on a government site so it should be authentic. Here's the link to that PDF
**clearnet** http://www.forfeiture.gov/pdf/DEA/OfficialNotification.pdf
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: thyme on June 24, 2013, 05:32 am
His coins (assuming the same Casey Jones) were seized April 12, and he has feedback from 29, 18, and 16 days ago?

The (a) forum user that is associated with the vendor page was last online in late May.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?action=profile;u=24461

That seems maybe concerning.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on June 24, 2013, 05:34 am
This Casey Jones requested a sample from me a 15 days ago. The crazy thing is, he messaged me from his vendor account, and willingly gave me his entire personal address, not a drop address. I myself warned Casey at the time to be careful because anyone at anytime could blackmail him, and he pretty much dismissed the idea and said "no problem, I might start a alternate buyer account to start buying. I'm not worried about it"
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Lorimer on June 25, 2013, 01:19 am
And just to thicken the plot: State of South Carolina court records show that an Eric Daniel Hughes is facing drug charges for the distribution of Clonazepam, and that he's now out on a $10,000 bond. Must be the guy:

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=24461

I'm not sure how the case relates to the DEA seizure, though, as it looks as though his arrest was on June 06 of this year, months after the April event. 

What I'm curious about is *how* the Bitcoin were seized. If they'd grabbed his computer, it wouldn't have been easy for him to keep vending (which he obviously did do), and even if they just seized a stored wallet, wouldn't they have taken the Bitcoin from the entire wallet, not just from one transaction? It would be like them busting a dealer with $5,000 in cash on him, but seizing only the $1,000 used in the deal they caught him with. It seems more likely the coins were handed over as part of a transaction.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: gimmemoredrugs on June 25, 2013, 03:45 am
It's interesting that it says he was not necessarily charged with a crime, just that his bitcoins were seized.  I wonder if they were not able to charge him with an actual crime?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 25, 2013, 03:59 am
It's interesting that it says he was not necessarily charged with a crime, just that his bitcoins were seized.  I wonder if they were not able to charge him with an actual crime?

I will be following this for sure.. curiosity sucks, takes to much attention away from my daily routines.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: gimmemoredrugs on June 25, 2013, 04:07 am
It's interesting that it says he was not necessarily charged with a crime, just that his bitcoins were seized.  I wonder if they were not able to charge him with an actual crime?

I will be following this for sure.. curiosity sucks, takes to much attention away from my daily routines.

TRUE
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: nuggets5 on June 25, 2013, 04:31 am
Well let's see if Casey Jone's vendor profile becomes active, if it does DEA is on it fishing for people
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Lorimer on June 25, 2013, 04:55 am
It's interesting that it says he was not necessarily charged with a crime, just that his bitcoins were seized.  I wonder if they were not able to charge him with an actual crime?

He was arrested on distribution charges a few weeks ago. He's now out on bail.  The article was just quoting the disclaimer on the notice.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: thyme on June 25, 2013, 05:08 am
What was the arrest date?
Thanks --
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: gimmemoredrugs on June 25, 2013, 05:40 am
And was caught selling (IRL) what he was advertising on the site?  It could be an unrelated bust.....since I believe it was a couple months after his bitcoins were seized
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Lorimer on June 25, 2013, 05:58 am
What was the arrest date?
Thanks --

June 6th. The charges were for weed, Clonazepam, and other unspecified drugs. And I agree: it could be unrelated. The guy didn't seem as though he was being particularly cautious.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Baraka on June 25, 2013, 07:56 am
Thanks for posting. This is historic! First time BTC seizure and all.  :o

Possibilities:

-the guy was a buyer who FEd to a LE compromised account then got burned
-the guy was a vendor who got burned by not being cautious enough and being overall really stupid
-the guy was a vendor who had a wallet address that was compromised or outright hacked by LE
-the guy was a vendor who willingly gave up his wallet address login and pass after being threatened by LE

If he was a vendor then it could be a combination of these. Either way I think he was really sloppy and probably did shit that was in clearnet, trackable and maybe even had Facebook and other accounts that could be linked back to SR. There's a thread on here which shows that this is (hopefully WAS) the case with some vendors. No shit. Some people really ARE that stupid if you can believe it.

LE took a couple of months to build a case against this guy, then pulled the trigger and arrested him and charged him. I'm thinking he probably couldn't keep his mouth shut when first approached by LE. Maybe even got his computer seized. I guess we won't ever find out unless that FOIA request ever gets answered.

The moral of the story? Don't FE, don't be stupid, cover your ass and don't talk to police.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Baraka on June 25, 2013, 08:10 am
DEA can't send out drugs.  There are a lot of things they can do but that isn't one of them.

ding ding ding! ^this

You can't get any more bottom line than that. DEA can't send out drugs because that would be textbook entrapment. They can pay for product, but they can't sell it. They can pose as a vendor, but not actually provide any product. If a real honeypot is made here or somewhere else LE would need to create a number of fake transactions with fake feedback and fake transfers of bitcoins. Even then a buyer would have to be dumb enough to FE so that the bitcoins leave escrow. Otherwise there's no case against the buyer. No released payment, no case. If LE pays a buyer a visit then they would need the buyer to admit that they ordered the drugs. If that happens, then they have a case. Maybe a weak case, but one that could have legs if a search warrant is issued and other surveillance is used. That would only happen if the buyer was big enough to waste that much time on.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Lorimer on June 25, 2013, 11:46 am
DEA can't send out drugs because that would be textbook entrapment. They can pay for product, but they can't sell it. They can pose as a vendor, but not actually provide any product.

I don't think it's as simple as that:

Quote from: The Center for Problem-Oriented Policing
The most common technique for sting operations directed at drug dealing in various environments is the reverse sting “buy and bust” (an officer pretends to be a drug dealer and sells to an unsuspecting customer).

Whether or not they'd send out (fake or real) drugs has nothing to do with entrapment. Entrapment involves inducing or coercing a person to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't have committed, and it could easily be argued that any Silk Road buyer with a history of prior transactions was likely going to buy drugs on the site again.

DEA could easily do a reverse sting online: all they'd need to do is pose as a vendor, take the order and address, and then have the DEA office closest to the buyer conduct a CD. I just don't think that the coordination and time involved in nabbing a dozen personal-use buyers would be worth it to them. Sticking to small orders, imo, is the wisest bet.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: mcguire39 on June 25, 2013, 02:49 pm
It does seem a little funny they would make a big deal out of something going down for around USD$1000.

I think the federal gov't agencies are under quite a bit of pressure to 'crack' SR and similar sites. They must just absolutely hate that it can go on right under their noses. So I would expect only bolder and more brazen attempts will be made to infiltrate/bring down whatever they can, whether or not all their methods are legal. I have no idea how SR is hosted but I would guess the servers are not in the U.S. anyway, it would only make sense they be in some country with more favorable Internet and IP laws.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 25, 2013, 06:38 pm
So how do you explain undercover sales and busts?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Kiwikiikii on June 26, 2013, 02:08 am
maybe they held him in contempt until he gave up his password?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on June 26, 2013, 03:08 am
So how do you explain undercover sales and busts?

Most undercover sales and busts involve LE buying from someone and then busting.

The times where LE is selling drugs and busting the buyers are always done in person.  Almost all of the time the drugs are fake and even when they are not LE arrests them immediately afterwards so they aren't actually letting drugs leave their possession.  This would be equivalent to a CD when mailing drugs.  In a CD they have the house surrounded and prevent all chance of the drugs leaving - and even then in most cases they remove the drugs and replace them with something that looks similar.

Mailing out drugs to people just to build cred on SR is not an option in their playbook under the law.  However, after the fast and furious scandal under Eric Holder and all of the other laws the US has been blatantly breaking lately to achieve their agendas I suppose nothing is out of the question anymore.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: SOUTHPAW on June 26, 2013, 04:35 am
DEA can't send out drugs because that would be textbook entrapment. They can pay for product, but they can't sell it. They can pose as a vendor, but not actually provide any product.

I don't think it's as simple as that:

Quote from: The Center for Problem-Oriented Policing
The most common technique for sting operations directed at drug dealing in various environments is the reverse sting “buy and bust” (an officer pretends to be a drug dealer and sells to an unsuspecting customer).

Whether or not they'd send out (fake or real) drugs has nothing to do with entrapment. Entrapment involves inducing or coercing a person to commit a crime they otherwise wouldn't have committed, and it could easily be argued that any Silk Road buyer with a history of prior transactions was likely going to buy drugs on the site again.

DEA could easily do a reverse sting online: all they'd need to do is pose as a vendor, take the order and address, and then have the DEA office closest to the buyer conduct a CD. I just don't think that the coordination and time involved in nabbing a dozen personal-use buyers would be worth it to them. Sticking to small orders, imo, is the wisest bet.

lorimer, thanks.  It's not as simple on either side, whether your for or against. So many people think that just because they are LE that they have to follow rules. Well they really don't. They, like so many of us here, just have to not get caught breaking them. and if caught better have some kind of back up plan.

They start their madness usually small and with little knowledge, and they learn, copy and excel to drive us out or deeper into the darkness.

Let us not forget the Fear Factor of the negative publicity that people are being arrested. It won't take long before everybody will say they knew somebody that was taken down while traveling on the road.  Advertising works, and what they are advertising is Prison.

I understand they have rules to follow and laws to abide by but the truth is they will and do whatever it takes. Especially when Politicians are yelling how bad things are and it is to save the children.  Even though the children will be running a much bigger and better road than before. Like the MFn Autobahn compared to a dirt road.  ;)

I think it's important to keep things like this open for debate because it causes people to think creatively and realistically to stay safe and not believe that the other side is playing by the rules they've set up. Remember, the people that are out in the field are not the one's that made the rules. But, they spend a great deal of their time trying to come up with ways around them and still get the desired results.  Peace  :)
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Lorimer on June 26, 2013, 05:49 am
It's not as simple on either side, whether your for or against. So many people think that just because they are LE that they have to follow rules. Well they really don't. They, like so many of us here, just have to not get caught breaking them. and if caught better have some kind of back up plan.

You're absolutely right: it's true that no one HAS to follow the rules. For the most part, though, law enforcement is interested in winning cases more than it is just arresting people, and it would be self-defeating if they were to do something - such as engage in obvious entrapment - that would compromise a potentially major case. (Of course, just as there are those on the criminal side who don't make the brightest decisions, there are those on the side of the law who act foolishly, too.) So no - it's never simple!
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Baraka on June 26, 2013, 08:37 am
Well said. My point was that LE has to build a case against a suspect and entrapping that suspect isn't the way to do it. It isn't as simple as busting a hooker. Even if LE lies they still have to establish that the drugs were sought by the suspect and paid for as well. That's why SR is such a problem for LE when trying to bust anyone who isn't on crack when placing an order. They need to prove intent to purchase which they'll get as soon as an order is placed. But they also need to trace payment. And don't forget identity either. Problem is they have to prove that the SR account holder is the same person who's receiving the drugs or that there's a connection between the two. Very very hard to prove unless someone opens their big mouth under pressure. The payment is the worst part. Bitcoin is a total nightmare for LE since they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that payment was made for the drugs. If they can't do that then chances are the suspect will walk if they have a decent lawyer.

So how do you explain undercover sales and busts?

Most undercover sales and busts involve LE buying from someone and then busting.

The times where LE is selling drugs and busting the buyers are always done in person.  Almost all of the time the drugs are fake and even when they are not LE arrests them immediately afterwards so they aren't actually letting drugs leave their possession.  This would be equivalent to a CD when mailing drugs.  In a CD they have the house surrounded and prevent all chance of the drugs leaving - and even then in most cases they remove the drugs and replace them with something that looks similar.

Mailing out drugs to people just to build cred on SR is not an option in their playbook under the law.  However, after the fast and furious scandal under Eric Holder and all of the other laws the US has been blatantly breaking lately to achieve their agendas I suppose nothing is out of the question anymore.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 26, 2013, 06:36 pm
Threads like this ALL newbies need to read. Good information.

How many LE's have any of you actually heard about?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Tessellated on June 27, 2013, 05:01 pm
...The payment is the worst part. Bitcoin is a total nightmare for LE since they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that payment was made for the drugs.

There does not need to be money changing hands for a trafficing charge. You can be charged with trafficking for giving drugs out for free. So I don't think they need to prove payment.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Tessellated on June 27, 2013, 05:05 pm
This Casey Jones requested a sample from me a 15 days ago. The crazy thing is, he messaged me from his vendor account, and willingly gave me his entire personal address, not a drop address...

This is probably how they found him. If you order drugs to your address with your vendor account then you have defeated the purpose of tor. Sad to hear about, but carelessness is still the only way they are going to get you as far as I can see.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Lucius Luv on June 27, 2013, 06:26 pm
anyone saying cops must follow the law, never had many run in's with 'the boys'.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: ProudCannabian on June 27, 2013, 07:28 pm
There are many, even high profile cases where undercover LE agents have sold drugs and weapons. (in the 80's the CIA imported coke, distributed it and taught dealers how to make crack out of it, creating a problem that didn't even exist before that point, also and related is Iran Contra)

Anyone who thinks they can't is just kidding themselves.  They do the arrests, write the reports and provide the evidence.  There is no overbody of police enforcement that goes through all of their casework to make certain it is done right.   Internal affairs only investigates reported claims of police corruption, they do not hunt through paperwork for possible issues.

Realistically, the guy was probably caught making a bad buy using his vendor account, or was nabbed dropping off his packages.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: abrakadabra on June 27, 2013, 07:48 pm
SR should not allow anyone to buy anything through any vendor account, that's what BMR does. Keep in mind folks, these forum threads are a resource to them.
 
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: abrakadabra on June 27, 2013, 07:52 pm
 Can't the admins look into the casey jones account history and pinpoint the rouge vendor or whatever transaction was involved with the seized coins? Not that they would share that here but are they aware of the story? Not sure they have time to read all the threads on this forum so maybe they need to be informed?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Auguest West on June 27, 2013, 08:09 pm
DEA can't send out drugs.  There are a lot of things they can do but that isn't one of them.

ding ding ding! ^this

You can't get any more bottom line than that. DEA can't send out drugs because that would be textbook entrapment. They can pay for product, but they can't sell it. They can pose as a vendor, but not actually provide any product. If a real honeypot is made here or somewhere else LE would need to create a number of fake transactions with fake feedback and fake transfers of bitcoins. Even then a buyer would have to be dumb enough to FE so that the bitcoins leave escrow. Otherwise there's no case against the buyer. No released payment, no case. If LE pays a buyer a visit then they would need the buyer to admit that they ordered the drugs. If that happens, then they have a case. Maybe a weak case, but one that could have legs if a search warrant is issued and other surveillance is used. That would only happen if the buyer was big enough to waste that much time on.


DingDingDing,  you are wrong, and its pretty irresponsible to go around giving people legal advice that shows you know absolutely zero about the law, you just like pretending to be one on SR.  I was going to go point by point on where and why you were wrong but it would be just easier to say your entire theory from start to end is completely and absolutely retarded.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: MarcelKetman on June 27, 2013, 11:08 pm
This Casey Jones requested a sample from me a 15 days ago. The crazy thing is, he messaged me from his vendor account, and willingly gave me his entire personal address, not a drop address...

This is probably how they found him. If you order drugs to your address with your vendor account then you have defeated the purpose of tor. Sad to hear about, but carelessness is still the only way they are going to get you as far as I can see.

Most likely scenario for sure. Certainly appears to be a vendor (this vendor Casey Jones) and not a buyer anyway. Just another reason for everyone to review their procedures. The only consolation is that we should be able to chalk this down to human error rather than a compromised system. You can bet your bottom dollar they'd have taken down some bigger fish if that was the case.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on June 27, 2013, 11:53 pm
Can't the admins look into the casey jones account history and pinpoint the rouge vendor or whatever transaction was involved with the seized coins? Not that they would share that here but are they aware of the story? Not sure they have time to read all the threads on this forum so maybe they need to be informed?

Look, im going to make a good guess here and say that the DEA never plucked any bitcons from thin air like everyone thinks. I'm going to guess Casey Jones got his door jam shattered.

I have been noticing a very disturbing trend. Many people have messaged me and acted very excited about whatever drug they want. They have tried to get very personal with me and "become friends." When it comes time to order, many of these people will ask if I would be willing to accept (insert random RX) they have huge saved amounts of for dirty cheap. If Casey is stupid enough to go around ordering shit from his vendor account, I can almost guarantee he did something like this.

We know if he was arrested, they searched his house. They seized his computer, and i'm sure the forensics team at the DEA jizzed everyplace when they discovered he had his mtgox username and password auto saved; remember, he was a fucking idiot.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on June 27, 2013, 11:59 pm
I thought this was pretty funny:  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/27/american_cops_make_first_ever_bitcoin_seizure/

Appears like they actually quoted you DealerOfDrugs.

You are famous!
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on June 28, 2013, 02:18 am
^^ Pretty entertaining read. The article seems to imply the seizure had to do with a raid at the fellow's house

Quote
American cops have made their first ever seizure of Bitcoin after raiding the house of an alleged drug dealer.

I'm not so sure about that. According to other threads, The bitcoins were seized in April, and Casey Jones wasn't arrested until June. I'm thinking its actually the other way around: the bitcoin seizure led to the raid at the house
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on June 28, 2013, 02:46 am
I'm not so sure about that. According to other threads, The bitcoins were seized in April, and Casey Jones wasn't arrested until June. I'm thinking its actually the other way around: the bitcoin seizure led to the raid at the house

What do you think is more likely ... the DEA tracking money deposited through bitcoin somehow magically to a physical address of one individual user and only confiscating $800 or the DEA catching some dumbass vendor who has sending his address all over the place and happening to find $800 in bitcoins on his computer?

Occam's razor...
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on June 28, 2013, 03:47 am
Grab your tinfoil hats motherfuckers! I went back to reread my messages from Jones.

The DEA arrested Casey Jones on April 12th, 2013. We know this to be fact.

On June 8th, 2013 Jones requested a sample and sent me his entire address. After Jones stated he was not too concerned, I replied back "people are crazy, just stay safe."

His next reply, which I totally forget about said, "Thanks!!! i'm switching over to my other seller account today. again appreciate the concern."

So either jones is requesting samples while out on bail, or..fuck.

Other seller account?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 28, 2013, 03:52 am
So he could be selling to any of us still :)
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on June 28, 2013, 03:58 am
So he could be selling to any of us still :)

At this point I think its about time for DPR or a site admin to step in and look into this account with a microscope.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Lorimer on June 28, 2013, 04:42 am
Grab your tinfoil hats motherfuckers! I went back to reread my messages from Jones.

The DEA arrested Casey Jones on April 12th, 2013. We know this to be fact.

The Bitcoin were seized on April 12th. Hughes wasn't arrested until June 6th. He's now out on bail. Not that this makes things any less confusing...
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: SOUTHPAW on June 28, 2013, 05:22 am

I have been noticing a very disturbing trend. Many people have messaged me and acted very excited about whatever drug they want. They have tried to get very personal with me and "become friends." When it comes time to order, many of these people will ask if I would be willing to accept (insert random RX) they have huge saved amounts of for dirty cheap. If Casey is stupid enough to go around ordering shit from his vendor account, I can almost guarantee he did something like this.




Yep, they have been doing this for a while.

I know someone who had their account compromised and LE used it to message vendors trying to do swaps.  They told me they wanted to contact the vendor and tell them that any messages from said account were in fact LE but said they were advised not to notify the vendor. 

I guess if the vendor is doing what they are supposed to to protect themselves then it would not be a big deal, right?  ???
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on June 28, 2013, 05:45 am
Grab your tinfoil hats motherfuckers! I went back to reread my messages from Jones.

The DEA arrested Casey Jones on April 12th, 2013. We know this to be fact.

The Bitcoin were seized on April 12th. Hughes wasn't arrested until June 6th. He's now out on bail. Not that this makes things any less confusing...

So two days after being arrested hes on SR trying to get samples?
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: SOUTHPAW on June 28, 2013, 05:54 am
Grab your tinfoil hats motherfuckers! I went back to reread my messages from Jones.

The DEA arrested Casey Jones on April 12th, 2013. We know this to be fact.

The Bitcoin were seized on April 12th. Hughes wasn't arrested until June 6th. He's now out on bail. Not that this makes things any less confusing...

So two days after being arrested hes on SR trying to get samples?

No, probably LE using his account to get packages sent so they could try to track, idk just a guess..
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: DealerOfDrugs on June 28, 2013, 06:44 am
Grab your tinfoil hats motherfuckers! I went back to reread my messages from Jones.

The DEA arrested Casey Jones on April 12th, 2013. We know this to be fact.

The Bitcoin were seized on April 12th. Hughes wasn't arrested until June 6th. He's now out on bail. Not that this makes things any less confusing...

So two days after being arrested hes on SR trying to get samples?

No, probably LE using his account to get packages sent so they could try to track, idk just a guess..
Good luck trying to track down a first class envelope. Oh LE, silly you.

If Jones did this dumb shit, makes me wonder what kind of crazy shit others do. Vendors, I believe some of us have gotten a little too comfortable in our little bubble.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: kennypowders on June 28, 2013, 07:18 am



Yep, they have been doing this for a while.

I know someone who had their account compromised and LE used it to message vendors trying to do swaps.  They told me they wanted to contact the vendor and tell them that any messages from said account were in fact LE but said they were advised not to notify the vendor. 

I guess if the vendor is doing what they are supposed to to protect themselves then it would not be a big deal, right?  ???
[/quote]


WHAT THE FUCK DUDE? Your friend had his account taken over by LE and you didn't tell anyone? And your friend didn't tell anyone? How fucking noble. WOW. FUCKING WOW.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: q on June 28, 2013, 07:20 am
LE can distribute drugs and support criminal acts if they want to, it has been done thousands of times and the law supports it. It's a good and easy method to get evidence.
And the truth is the law does not even matter, they enforce the law and therefore they can do as they please.
They have massive resources available to take down this drug market, they can attack this drug marked in more ways then we can dream of.

LE are reading what we write here, so don't expect that people involved in running SR will write anything about what they do with compromised accounts here.
If they have their eyes open they should be aware of this case.

I'm sure LE have more active accounts selling and buying right now.

If we are really unlucky the whole site could be compromised already, and massive busts could be done within a few years whenever they feel ready.
It has been done before with many underground networks.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on June 28, 2013, 09:24 am
Possibilities:

-the guy was a buyer who FEd to a LE compromised account then got burned
-the guy was a vendor who got burned by not being cautious enough and being overall really stupid
-the guy was a vendor who had a wallet address that was compromised or outright hacked by LE
-the guy was a vendor who willingly gave up his wallet address login and pass after being threatened by LE

If he was a vendor then it could be a combination of these. Either way I think he was really sloppy and probably did shit that was in clearnet, trackable and maybe even had Facebook and other accounts that could be linked back to SR. There's a thread on here which shows that this is (hopefully WAS) the case with some vendors. No shit. Some people really ARE that stupid if you can believe it.

LE took a couple of months to build a case against this guy, then pulled the trigger and arrested him and charged him. I'm thinking he probably couldn't keep his mouth shut when first approached by LE. Maybe even got his computer seized. I guess we won't ever find out unless that FOIA request ever gets answered.

^^^^ This. Went back and reread stuff. Sounds like the dude was dumb and didn't take security seriously.

You know there was going to be a 1st SR bust eventually.  Sooner or later someone was going to get caught. LE's been catching a lot of heat for not being able to stop SR. They're under pressure to bust someone. So who's it going to be?

Obviously, the easiest one to bust. Casey Jones made it easy for them and he got busted.

I think the lesson to be learned here is don't make it easy for them. Security in this game needs to be taken seriousy.

I think the low-hanging-fruit analogy is approapriate here. Don't be the low hanging fruit.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: SOUTHPAW on June 28, 2013, 04:47 pm



Yep, they have been doing this for a while.

I know someone who had their account compromised and LE used it to message vendors trying to do swaps.  They told me they wanted to contact the vendor and tell them that any messages from said account were in fact LE but said they were advised not to notify the vendor. 

I guess if the vendor is doing what they are supposed to to protect themselves then it would not be a big deal, right?  ???


WHAT THE FUCK DUDE? Your friend had his account taken over by LE and you didn't tell anyone? And your friend didn't tell anyone? How fucking noble. WOW. FUCKING WOW.
[/quote]

It was reported to the proper people.  The user was advised not to notify the vendor after giving the details of the messages and too who they were sent.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: P2P on June 28, 2013, 07:04 pm



Yep, they have been doing this for a while.

I know someone who had their account compromised and LE used it to message vendors trying to do swaps.  They told me they wanted to contact the vendor and tell them that any messages from said account were in fact LE but said they were advised not to notify the vendor. 

I guess if the vendor is doing what they are supposed to to protect themselves then it would not be a big deal, right?  ???


WHAT THE FUCK DUDE? Your friend had his account taken over by LE and you didn't tell anyone? And your friend didn't tell anyone? How fucking noble. WOW. FUCKING WOW.

It was reported to the proper people.  The user was advised not to notify the vendor after giving the details of the messages and too who they were sent.
[/quote]

I think we need to understand how to treat LE here. They are not rational. They do not follow their own rules. They are certainly not predictable. And it's likely most of them are psychopathic. They go by the "break the laws to save the laws" concept, and therefore we should not assume that ANYTHING is out of the question for LE, except for possibly murder (and it hasn't been, in certain cases).

The best course of action here would be to prevent inexperienced, frightened children (whether they are actually children or of majority age) from accessing SR, but that will never happen with the current business model and cannot be achieved in a tor environment. I'm sure minors make up a large percentage of sales here, but frankly I think it is a huge security hole and one a side of SR that brings a lot more attention than is needed. Each and every SR member has a responsibility to SR to: A. Never speak about SR to friends. Your friends are not your friends when facing distribution charges. B. Never speak about SR to law enforcement. C. Make every effort to hide SR use, so that it cannot be proved it was ever accessed. D. Make every effort to ensure that you will receive every package you order (vendor choices, secure drop points, never signing, etc.). and E. Do not ever, ever speak about SR.

SR is fight club. You do not talk about Fight Club, and you certainly do not talk about SR.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: IamMulva on June 28, 2013, 07:20 pm
Nobody knows what happened. If they made a vendor account then the customer must have finalized early.

this sounds like the recent scammer BelgianChocolate, maybe not all scammers are scamming at all maybe they are LE

1. Made new Vendor account
2. Made only very large amounts available to SR general public
3. Made all FE early
4. No one (that ive read of) got product.

If DEA wanted to get big buyers this would be the optimal way. I know the time frames dont match up, but its just an observation.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Hendrix99 on June 28, 2013, 08:15 pm

They go by the "break the laws to save the laws" concept, and therefore we should not assume that ANYTHING is out of the question for LE,

This reminds me of a saying that I like to use now and again. 

" To assume makes an ASS out of U and ME"

what do you think? kinda cheesy maybee but soo true in a lot of cases
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: kirby12 on June 29, 2013, 02:46 am
*clearnet* http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/53700133097/users-bitcoins-seized-by-dea

Quote

    The Drug Enforcement Administration posted an Official Notification that Bitcoin (i.e. property) belonging to Eric Daniel Hughes was seized for forfeiture pursuant to 21 U.S.C. § 881, because the property was used or acquired as a result of a violation of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. §§ 801 et seq.)

    ...The Bitcoin address referenced in the complaint recieved a transaction for 11.02btc at 17:10:36 Blockchain time on the date noted as “seized”.

    The honeypot scenario seems more likely as the sender-address was not emptied into the “DEA” account. There is one other transaction in the referenced account, for 17.24btc which entered 5/22/13 and is transferred out 5/28/13 - It moves through one intermediary account, is then combined into a block of 200btc and moves through an account that transacts only in 100 or 200btc blocks totaling 10,100btc. Following any one of those 200btc blocks leads you to apparent “mixer” transactions, small amounts of value peeling off of the larger amount at each hop. Taint analysis reveals that nearly 10% of those bitcoins eventually pass through an address responsible for transacting more than 419,000btc since 2012


Did anyone else notice that they analyzed his/her Taint?
Holy shit, this scary!!  :o
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on June 29, 2013, 06:58 am
Did anyone else notice that they analyzed his/her Taint?
Holy shit, this scary!!  :o


Hahahahahaha! Hilarious, dude! LMFAO +1!
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: upthera on June 30, 2013, 05:26 pm
anyone saying cops must follow the law, never had many run in's with 'the boys'.


ding ding ding!!!

and we have a winner.  Well said and too true. They can and WILL do whatever it takes. EDIT: whatever they want!  LAA, LAO Law abusing agents and osifers 
just scum PIGS SOP
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Juggernog on June 30, 2013, 07:29 pm
anyone saying cops must follow the law, never had many run in's with 'the boys'.
ding ding ding!!!

That's exactly what I say. They break laws to make the laws.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: newbottles on July 01, 2013, 09:19 pm
It's interesting that it says he was not necessarily charged with a crime, just that his bitcoins were seized.  I wonder if they were not able to charge him with an actual crime?

I will be following this for sure.. curiosity sucks, takes to much attention away from my daily routines.

TRUE

Life is hell and most daily routines are over-rated.  Curiosity wins here.  No disrespect to OP.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: newbottles on July 01, 2013, 09:27 pm
Well said. My point was that LE has to build a case against a suspect and entrapping that suspect isn't the way to do it. It isn't as simple as busting a hooker. Even if LE lies they still have to establish that the drugs were sought by the suspect and paid for as well. That's why SR is such a problem for LE when trying to bust anyone who isn't on crack when placing an order. They need to prove intent to purchase which they'll get as soon as an order is placed. But they also need to trace payment. And don't forget identity either. Problem is they have to prove that the SR account holder is the same person who's receiving the drugs or that there's a connection between the two. Very very hard to prove unless someone opens their big mouth under pressure. The payment is the worst part. Bitcoin is a total nightmare for LE since they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that payment was made for the drugs. If they can't do that then chances are the suspect will walk if they have a decent lawyer.

So how do you explain undercover sales and busts?

Most undercover sales and busts involve LE buying from someone and then busting.

The times where LE is selling drugs and busting the buyers are always done in person.  Almost all of the time the drugs are fake and even when they are not LE arrests them immediately afterwards so they aren't actually letting drugs leave their possession.  This would be equivalent to a CD when mailing drugs.  In a CD they have the house surrounded and prevent all chance of the drugs leaving - and even then in most cases they remove the drugs and replace them with something that looks similar.

Mailing out drugs to people just to build cred on SR is not an option in their playbook under the law.  However, after the fast and furious scandal under Eric Holder and all of the other laws the US has been blatantly breaking lately to achieve their agendas I suppose nothing is out of the question anymore.

I fundamentally agree with Baraka here and man I hope we are both right for several reasons.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Baraka on July 02, 2013, 02:18 am
Thanks. Everything I said was strictly from a legal standpoint. At the same time I will admit in a second that LE regularly breaks the law SEVERELY to get what they want. As far as the DEA is concerned the ends always justify the means. If they figure that a suspect doesn't know the law, can be intimidated and can't afford a lawyer, they will do whatever it takes to fuck that person. Legal or illegal. But if the suspect DOES know the law and CAN afford a lawyer and DOES exercise their constitutional rights, then it's LE who's fucked. That's of course assuming that forfeited assets were returned after proof of money origin was provided.

The bottom line here is that the US is a police state. A few years ago a mayor in Maryland had his door bashed down with a retroactive no-knock warrant. They tied him, his wife and her mother up, shot their two innocent dogs dead and fucked up their whole house. All over a 30 pound package of weed that was addressed to his house. A courier was later indicted on charges that he was the one who penciled in the mayor's name and address with the intent to intercept the package before it arrived.

Every year many people are mistakenly shot dead by the DEA. Some are over 80 years old. LE always gets away with it because they have complete immunity. They will also lie and cover up at a moment's notice to protect their asses. The only defense against this shit is to know your rights, exercise those rights and have access to a good lawyer. Then sue the fuck out of them when all is said and done.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: P2P on July 02, 2013, 02:27 am
Then sue the fuck out of them when all is said and done.

You mean, "Do not be 99.999% of people who don't have the money to sue the fuck out of them, and sue the fuck out of them when all is said and done."
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: SOUTHPAW on July 02, 2013, 02:33 am
DEA can't send out drugs.  There are a lot of things they can do but that isn't one of them.

ding ding ding! ^this

You can't get any more bottom line than that. DEA can't send out drugs because that would be textbook entrapment. They can pay for product, but they can't sell it. They can pose as a vendor, but not actually provide any product. If a real honeypot is made here or somewhere else LE would need to create a number of fake transactions with fake feedback and fake transfers of bitcoins. Even then a buyer would have to be dumb enough to FE so that the bitcoins leave escrow. Otherwise there's no case against the buyer. No released payment, no case. If LE pays a buyer a visit then they would need the buyer to admit that they ordered the drugs. If that happens, then they have a case. Maybe a weak case, but one that could have legs if a search warrant is issued and other surveillance is used. That would only happen if the buyer was big enough to waste that much time on.

So you are now contradicting this statement.  But as you have proclaimed your speaking from a legal standpoint, who's?  Whichever suits the need at the particular time you want to proclaim "I'm right".  Wonderfully brilliant  :o
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 02, 2013, 02:37 am
*clearnet* http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/53700133097/users-bitcoins-seized-by-dea

Quote

    The Drug Enforcement Administration posted an Official Notification that Bitcoin (i.e. property) belonging to Eric Daniel Hughes was seized for forfeiture pursuant to 21 U.S.C. § 881, because the property was used or acquired as a result of a violation of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. §§ 801 et seq.)

    ...The Bitcoin address referenced in the complaint recieved a transaction for 11.02btc at 17:10:36 Blockchain time on the date noted as “seized”.

    The honeypot scenario seems more likely as the sender-address was not emptied into the “DEA” account. There is one other transaction in the referenced account, for 17.24btc which entered 5/22/13 and is transferred out 5/28/13 - It moves through one intermediary account, is then combined into a block of 200btc and moves through an account that transacts only in 100 or 200btc blocks totaling 10,100btc. Following any one of those 200btc blocks leads you to apparent “mixer” transactions, small amounts of value peeling off of the larger amount at each hop. Taint analysis reveals that nearly 10% of those bitcoins eventually pass through an address responsible for transacting more than 419,000btc since 2012


Did anyone else notice that they analyzed his/her Taint?
Holy shit, this scary!!  :o

Did you think that they wouldn't??  It is as simple as entering the bitcoin address and pressing a button. ::)
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Baraka on July 02, 2013, 02:58 am
You mean, "Do not be 99.999% of people who don't have the money to sue the fuck out of them, and sue the fuck out of them when all is said and done."

Good point  ;)

It all goes back to who you are and if you can afford to hire a good lawyer in the first place.

So you are now contradicting this statement.  But as you have proclaimed your speaking from a legal standpoint, who's?  Whichever suits the need at the particular time you want to proclaim "I'm right".  Wonderfully brilliant  :o

I'm not contradicting my earlier statement. I was saying what LE is legally allowed to do. What is legally allowed and what actually happens- depending on who the suspect is- can be two very different things. This again depends on whether the suspect can afford a lawyer, whether they know their rights and whether they actually exercise their rights. That can be very difficult when your dogs are dead and you have a gun pointed right in your eye.

In a sense the law doesn't matter anymore. When going up an armed, criminal gang such as the government has become there's no way out if they decide to come after you. You can only sue later on if you can afford it. I guess it all comes down to brute force and money in the end. Now THAT may very well be me contradicting my earlier statements!
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: SOUTHPAW on July 02, 2013, 03:10 am
Nice retort. haha  :)

Yes it comes down to money, and more importantly who you KNOW.
Title: Re: Bitcoins Seizure due to being acquired through Controlled Substance Act
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 02, 2013, 04:04 am
Every year many people are mistakenly shot dead by the DEA. Some are over 80 years old. LE always gets away with it because they have complete immunity. They will also lie and cover up at a moment's notice to protect their asses.

So true!!!! Its not just DEA either. Its all LEA's. Police routinely shoot innocent people and then cover it up. A few of them do get caught, and those are the ones you hear about. But you know its a commonplace practice. LE protects its own.

Babylon!