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[–]yoydid 680 points681 points  (42 children)

Am I cooked if I didn’t use chatgpt but my essay looks like this 😭😭😭 not entirely but i now realize it’s pretty cliche at points

[–]girls-wreck-my-life 419 points420 points  (20 children)

literally, i use em-dashes and tricolons a lot, it’s just in my style 😭 are we cooked

[–]rebonkersParent 141 points142 points  (17 children)

Emdash and tricolon is absolutely my style! My 17 yr old daughter hates it, she says it sounds old fashioned and like speech... which yay for me and Obama, I guess? Her essays don't seem polished enough so we go back and forth with edits.

[–]P_Car_Piper 29 points30 points  (3 children)

Same. Maybe I =shouldn't= have reviewed and made suggestive prompts for my kid to improve his essay(s). I thought the essay process was too evaluate the concept and complex thoughts expressed (to get to know them) not necessarily evaluate their command of English or writing skills. Especially if reviewers know they probably have gone through several rounds of editing from teachers, parents, or coaches.

I'm glad I don't have to be a college student today that's intelligent and talented enough to write originally, but now has to also try to NOT sound like AI helped. (Maybe we should use more parentheses to emulate the OP?) (kidding) (sort of) 😉

[–]AppHelper[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

ChatGPT did tell me to cut down on the paretheticals and tangents for more effective delivery of my message. I politely told it to shove it.

[–]P_Car_Piper 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Quick comment to say that we all (most of us?) appreciate your detailed and thorough post(s) that help students improve their applications. They also help us all think more about our own writing. Thank you.

[–]AppHelper[S] 26 points27 points  (8 children)

The college admissions essays that ChatGPT is trained on were predominantly written by GenXers and Millennials. It's certainly not a coincidence.

[–]Exbusterr 4 points5 points  (7 children)

As a GenXer I never learned to write this way. Em Wn and Tricolon was rarely encouraged to be used. I think it depends on education type and quality which is inconsistent even to this day across the country. I mean you have people graduating from high school who write crappy essays and colleges have to test for competency because K-12 has failed us as a nation.

[–]rebonkersParent 7 points8 points  (3 children)

I'm 48 for what it is worth, so GenX, but went to a rigorous Catholic high school and majored in History. Now that I think about it, I did Speech & Debate so maybe the tricolons is an extension of that training. I don't know.

Still have a hard time only doing one space after a period.

[–]AppHelper[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Interesting. It's probably a Millennial thing then. And that would make sense, as your college admissions essays were probably not stored as electronic records.

[–]Exbusterr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Typed on a typewriter, LOL even though we already had Mac’s and the Internet, there was no browsers yet until the mid 90’s. Print quality was crappy compared to today.

[–]Jaralith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm an elder Millennial (and turned in my college application materials on paper), and I do remember being taught by my AP English teacher how to effectively use and structure an essay around a tricolon. She wasn't big on em-dashes, though; she was much more enthusiastic about semicolons. ;)

[–]mel9036Parent 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I’m a writer and my style is also similar to this. My 16 yr old son recently completed his essay, and surprise surprise, his style is definitely influenced by mine, though he has a more modern twist.

[–]williamfrantz 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I think you meant to say, "I'm cooked– I use em-dashes, metaphors and tricolons a lot."

__________

ChatGPT would then respond:

The irony of the statement lies in its self-referential style, which demonstrates the very habits it claims to bemoan. Here's how:

  1. Use of an em-dash: The statement includes an em-dash ("I'm cooked–"), immediately proving the point about overusing them.
  2. Use of a metaphor: The phrase "I'm cooked" is itself a metaphor, likening the speaker's overwhelmed or exhausted state to food being overdone.
  3. Use of a tricolon: The list "em-dashes, metaphors, and tricolons" is a tricolon, a rhetorical device involving a series of three elements.

In essence, the speaker ironically exemplifies the behaviors they appear to critique, creating a humorous self-parody.

[–]AppHelper[S] 70 points71 points  (15 children)

As expected, you're not the only commenter to say this. In general, one of the advantages to having an experienced counselor (school or private) review your essays is that they're more familiar with clichés. Someone who's just good a writing is not going to have the same perspective.

I see a lot of essays that would have been considered very good in 2004. I know mine weren't phenomenal (I started college that year). But it's 2024, and you should have a 2024 essay.

[–]Striking_Pea_3615 11 points12 points  (9 children)

What would a 2024 essay sound like

[–]AppHelper[S] 31 points32 points  (5 children)

To quote Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it." A 2024 essay will not just tell an engaging story and demonstrate intellectual curiosity (which used to be sufficient), but exhibit context-awareness and critical thinking.

Today's youth are more connected and worldly than ever before. You have access to so much information and ideas. This certainly has its pitfalls, but the kind of thinking I see from kids today is astounding.

[–]human-barelythoHS Senior | International 12 points13 points  (3 children)

What different words do indians use?

[–]AppHelper[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

  • "The same" as a pronoun
  • Felicitated
  • Prepone
  • Incharge

[–]First_Community_4742 175 points176 points  (10 children)

…I just realized that I write my essays like ChatGPT 🥲 I am cooked

[–]AppHelper[S] 65 points66 points  (8 children)

None of these things is exclusive to ChatGPT except the default punctuation conventions (which can be prompted differently). They're in ChatGPT's college essays for a reason. When I come across them, I usually don't directly accuse a student of using ChatGPT. I'll say, "I'm not sure if you used ChatGPT for this, but it sounds like something ChatGPT would write. Whether or not it's actually ChatGPT, you might want to avoid this kind of cliché."

I'm a bit sad I have to tell my students to be more judicious with em-dashes and tricolons.

Edit: I originally started the comment with "yeah." I didn't mean to say you're cooked; I was just acknowledging that you don't need to use ChatGPT to sound like this.

[–]First_Community_4742 30 points31 points  (1 child)

Ohhh okay. But those two were actually my main worries haha. I love em-dashes so I use them all the time (my parents are excellent writers so I learned from them), and after re-looking at some of my essays just now, I realized how many have tricolons (even though I didn’t know what they were until this post!). I have never used ChatGPT in my life but at least one admissions officer somewhere will probably think I did. Bleh.

[–]Spark_Frog 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah and I always learned in school the power of three and all that so tend to use them to emphasize points. My one saving Grace may be that I tend to go in depth enough on at least one so I end up using ; to separate items

[–]BoringAdvice3460 2 points3 points  (3 children)

in #7, you mentioned that chatgpt used em dashes as the ending sentence. i also used an em dash(on my own not ai) , so i was wondering if that sounds chat and if i should delete it for rd 😭😭

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Em dashes are helpful for shifts in pace and can be effective for endings. I haven't read your essay, so I couldn't tell you one way or the other.

[–]BoringAdvice3460 1 point2 points  (1 child)

okay thank u! so it’s not like a sure sign of AI?

[–]townandthecity 17 points18 points  (0 children)

No, you’re not. Don’t let this stress you out. You would not want to attend a school that would deny you admission based on a very subjective conclusion that you utilize chatGPT when you did not. If you think about it, any university that relies on a completely subjective analysis of whether an applicant has utilized chatGPT could theoretically accuse you of doing the same thing at any point in the next four years of college.

[–]Asliceofcheese7 134 points135 points  (8 children)

Oh god now I’m freaking out that AOs are gonna think I used AI since I love to use Em dashes 😭

[–]Squidoodalee_ 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Fr, thanks AP Lang

[–]Similar_Garage6369HS Grad | International 18 points19 points  (1 child)

For real, I had so many of them to save words 😭😭

[–]XyneWasTaken 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yup, that 3 to 1 word binning is just so powerful

[–]sneepsnorkHS Senior 9 points10 points  (2 children)

its actually over I use them so much

[–]BoringAdvice3460 5 points6 points  (1 child)

same i used 5 in my ps alone, but lowk if u use a lot isn’t it also fine bc chat wouldn’t use many 😭

[–]endlessspiraling 56 points57 points  (7 children)

Guys is it bad if I use a ton of em dashes in my writing

[–]CaptiDoorHS Senior 29 points30 points  (3 children)

Same I'm genuinely so worried... I have at least one per essay and everyone tells me I use them well, but now I'm paranoid 😭

[–]LeCollegeGalHS Senior 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Same lol. I use em dashes far too much, but hopefully my obsession with semicolons will help because I don't think chatgpt uses many of those

[–]townandthecity 20 points21 points  (1 child)

I would not worry. Nearly all style guides prefer em-dash. There is a reason why you do not see hyphens setting off sentences in published books and in newspapers. I use them frequently and I find the argument that they are suggestive of AI absolutely bizarre.

Honestly, if colleges are going to make random decisions about which college essays have utilized AI, then they need to have some documentation on their websites about trigger words that students can avoid because this is hugely problematic. This is an incredibly complex and subtle topic, and I would distrust any institution that utilizes the rules in this post to weed out essays that have relied on ChatGPT.

[–]AppHelper[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I agree 100% with this comment. None of these things by themselves is proof, or should be used as proof. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong. Sometimes I don't know because a stranger or even a student of mine might not be completely honest with me. But having worked primarily with international students, I'm observing consistency that never existed before.

[–]AppHelper[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children)

In general, too many em dashes look sloppy. In many cases, they are a substitute for semicolons, colons, or commas. Proper use of these punctuation marks can make your writing seem more sophisticated.

[–]thatswhaturmomsaid69 98 points99 points  (9 children)

I despise how being a good writer is now a bad thing because of ChatGPT. I'm sorry for all the little nerds who grew up reading and learning, only to be told they have to dumb the writing down so they dont sound too smart and get suspected of AI.

[–]spirit_sagaCollege Freshman 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I don’t think the conclusion ever was that you have to dumb down your writing. You can have a distinct voice that is both effective and technically strong; ChatGPT is not the standard for good writing by any means, and the reason why it sounds “robotic” in the first place is the reason why it isn’t a great writer for all purposes.

[–]AppHelper[S] 22 points23 points  (3 children)

Your concern is valid, /u/thatswhaturmomsaid69. But as I noted, I think it's possible to be better than ChatGPT.

[–]FrodolasCollege Graduate 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Your writing and comments are the most generic, ChatGPT writing I’ve ever seen. They are absolutely not better than ChatGPT.

Honestly it’s hilarious to act like you’re an authority on this subject with how mediocre your own writing is. 

[–]Adept-Woodpecker-248 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah it was giving LinkedIn post.

[–]EnByChic 3 points4 points  (2 children)

This is exactly what happened to me in school. I took 2 online classes and had to have regular plagiarism meetings until my principal finally turned off the AI checker because I just write that well/do use em dashes and a few cliches and those ‘telltale signs.’ I think it’s honestly not a great call for anyone to completely fail or discredit an essay because it ‘looks like AI.’ I would much rather universities ask for an edit history from the document the student is writing on, or an attached copy of a first draft or progress pictures if the student chose to do it in a physical format first.

[–]PotatoMaster21 37 points38 points  (1 child)

Terrible news as someone who genuinely loves tricolons and em dashes lol

[–]AppHelper[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ikr. We were too good for the past 20 years, and now ChatGPT co-opted them.

[–]anerdynerdnerd 82 points83 points  (1 child)

This is very well written.

I have also noticed certain trends with ChatGPT and it's mannerisms.

There definitely are still uses for ChatGPT as a tool, but no one should be copy-pasting directly from ChatGPT for any reason.

[–]AppHelper[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Thank you! As I mentioned, I really think ChatGPT has made me a better writer. It's something I didn't expect, but I enjoy challenging myself to stay "ahead of the curve."

I was anxious about the future of my career when I saw what ChatGPT4 could do. In fact, I had a significant crisis. But I had already pivoted away from high-volume, impersonal essay reviews and more toward working closely with a smaller number of clients. I was unsure before, but now I see that an experienced human perspective is more important than ever for college admissions.

ChatGPT and generative AI can't be dismissed or ignored. It's as significant as the invention of the telephone, automobile, airplane, or computers and the Internet itself. It's already transforming the economy.

It's quite remarkable to living this moment. Teenagers applying to college are in a great place right now to reap the benefits of such a monumental shift.

[–]Randomlo1207 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Some of the things ChatGPT uses were taught in our writing classes back in middle school, so to some extent, I already write in a way that's similar to GPT's. Plus, my native language is full of metaphors, and I'm worried AO will think my essays are AI-written when they're not.

[–]DardS8Br 27 points28 points  (6 children)

Me who used both delve and tapestry in his essays (I didn't use AI)

[–]DarkCurseBreaker 18 points19 points  (0 children)

One thing i've realised is that as i read more and more chat-gpt written work (either just from ai-generated slop online, or when asking it questions) my writing has unintentionally taken on some of its characteristics. I spam em dashes now but I'm not sure if that's something I always used to do.

[–]Educational_Post4492HS Senior | International 3 points4 points  (0 children)

i almost also used tapestry in my essays but realized that it’s a common “ai-flagged” word — pls try to opt for other words in your future essays!!

[–]YogurtVegetable8361 2 points3 points  (3 children)

lol I give myself a delve allowance -- only once per essay

[–]AppHelper[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I'd cut that to once per app.

I have a similar "not only... but also" limit.

[–]Matte_Reddit07 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Hilarious read!

[–]yellowjackits 31 points32 points  (1 child)

My essay mentor told me to use what you call tricolons. That’s how I set my most of my piqs. I agree with most of the other stuff you say, but I think tricolons are an efficient way to get multiple points concisely or sum up what the rest of the essay looks like. I did not use chatgpt

[–]AppHelper[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Tricolons are great! As I mentioned, I had a student who got into Yale this year who used a bunch of them. But writers should be aware that too many can make it seem AI-written.

If I were an English teacher, I'd give an assignment for students to identify all the tricolons in the Declaration of Independence and speeches by Lincoln, Kennedy, and Obama (considered three of the best orators in American politics). There are dozens.

[–]Honest_Photo_3220 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I used both “tapestry” and “delve” in one of my essays but I swear I literally didn’t use Chat GPT for any of it 😭😭😭 Brb gonna go kill myself

[–]WRChimp 42 points43 points  (3 children)

All this wasted energy and environmental impact so people can turn in boring essays. I hate ChatGPT so much.

[–]AppHelper[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

All the more reason to invest in nuclear fusion research. It would be poetic if AI helped us achieve sustainable fusion.

In fact, I'd love to augment my brain and body with AI and robotic arms to control fusion myself. "The power of the sun... in the palm of my hand."

[–]JustTheWriterPrivate Admissions Consultant (Verified) 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Never stop hating.

[–]Samarium149Graduate Student 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I wrote something absolutely insane for my college essay back before ChatGPT. Even my lit teacher said it was unique when she reviewed it (40+ years teaching English, she was teaching for longer than the high school existed).

Although it didn't get me into that many colleges. I would imagine it might have landed better these days given the proliferation of AI writers.

[–]AppHelper[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

My Millennial brain read "lit teacher" as a compliment.

[–]DiamondDepth_YTHS Senior 8 points9 points  (7 children)

I feel like a lot of this could also be attributed to a student getting help with their writing from an English teacher. My English teacher certainly writes a lot like some of your red flags.

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

These aren't "red flags." They're just characteristic of ChatGPT. It's not any single one that's a telltale sign, but a combination of evidence when the whole essay is examined.

[–]Iceberg-man-77 4 points5 points  (0 children)

let’s not forget ChatGPT doesn’t create data and styles. it uses our styles. So it makes sense for it to use similar styles to things we’ve written.

[–]DiamondDepth_YTHS Senior 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Do you think one of my letters of rec being from my English teacher may help with validity? He literally helped me write a lot of my essays. And my essay structures fall under A LOT of your GPT characteristics, so I won't lie, it's got me a bit anxiety filled..

[–]Background_Sink6986 5 points6 points  (4 children)

The em dash point makes no sense. Not only were they taught, your use of en dashes is strictly incorrect. En dashes are not used to separate phrases or clauses at all—that’s something only the em dash can do.

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

En dashes have specific uses that em dashes do not (e.g. ranges and agreements), but en dashes vs. em dashes for separating clauses is a matter of style. Typically, an en dash is used with spaces around it, and an em dash is used without spaces. There's no universal rule for em dashes either. Most American conventions use em dashes without a space. The New York Times uses em dashes with a space.

[–]No_Reflection4189 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is why I decided to loosen my writing style and make it more friendly and personal for college apps.

[–]No-Significance4623Graduate Degree 5 points6 points  (1 child)

To students reading this and thinking "oh no! I write like ChatGPT!" here's a huge reminder from a cranky university professor:

Read more books-- about different things, from different time periods, in different genres. Read more magazines. Read more anything that isn't a blog post or warmed-over internet bullshit.

The internet is a regurgitation machine. It continues to distill things down to the familiar because that tends to work well for search engines and trending tags. If you only read the internet, you sound like a computer because your worldview is very narrow and frankly, boring.

[–]AppHelper[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is great advice. One of the publications I used to recommend was The Atlantic. However, now it's mostly a blog with significantly less sophisticated writing. There are still exceptions with long-form content, but it's a shell of what it once was. I can't blame them for adapting the the Internet age.

Scientific American also "dumbed down" a while ago. I'm not sure what a good substitute is.

[–]JustTheWriterPrivate Admissions Consultant (Verified) 14 points15 points  (7 children)

As you mention, LLMs perpetuate those syntax formulas — and there are plenty more, including variations on the ones you mention — because they’re trained on hundreds of thousands of essays that have used them. Garbage in, garbage out.

The “voice” of ChatGPT is just the insipid mean of the tedious, I-Am-Writing-A-College-Application-Essay voice that pervades 99% of college application essays. I disagree with everything you’ve said praising it.

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

It can be prompted to do better, particularly if not instructed that it's a college admissions essay. It doesn't work as well for "why us" essays, but there's no reason to tell ChatGPT that a Common App essay outline is for a college application. It could be a newspaper op-ed, magazine article, blog post, or whatever.

[–]JustTheWriterPrivate Admissions Consultant (Verified) 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Students can be taught to write. Pays far more dividends than teaching them how to hack prompts for mediocrity generators.

[–]AppHelper[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Those don't have to be mutually exclusive. It's important to teach arithmetic and trigonometry, but people still use calculators and CAD software.

I got a degree in engineering without ever learning to do long division. I literally cannot divide a three-digit number by a two-digit number without guessing first. It makes zero impact on life.

The people who do best in most professions are going to be those who can understand and prompt generative AI most effectively. The vast majority of writing doesn't need to be more than what you call "mediocre." The ability to write well is a nice skill to have, but it's an artistic ability that is going to have less relevance for academic and professional success.

If colleges truly care about writing ability, they should encourage College Board, ACT Inc., and others to conduct proctored writing evaluations. But they've just the opposite in the past 10 years and dropped writing section requirements.

[–]didnotsub 1 point2 points  (0 children)

omg same I can’t divide!!!

[–]Appropriate_Ad3127 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I edited a college essay for a friend and it went up to being 21% AI predicted from 11… so what’s that say about me??

[–]AppHelper[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That the AI takeover has already started.

[–]Xewek68819 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Below is a refined configuration prompt to help ChatGPT produce writing that avoids the identified pitfalls and mimics more authentic and personal college essays:

ChatGPT Configuration for Authentic College Admissions Essays: 1. Voice and Tone: • Write in a natural and conversational tone, reflective of a high school student’s authentic voice. • Balance sophistication with relatability; avoid excessive formality or overly polished phrasing. • Incorporate small imperfections or hesitations to mimic genuine human thought processes. 2. Vocabulary: • Use accessible, age-appropriate vocabulary. Avoid rare, overly advanced words unless they are contextually necessary and natural. • Prioritise clarity and emotional resonance over complexity. 3. Metaphor and Imagery: • Limit extended metaphors to one per essay. Keep them simple, personal, and relevant to the narrative. • Avoid flowery or forced comparisons. Instead, focus on vivid, personal anecdotes that naturally evoke emotion. 4. Punctuation: • Use contractions where appropriate to create a conversational tone (e.g., “I’m” instead of “I am”). • Avoid overusing semicolons; opt for simpler sentence structures when possible. • Embrace variety in sentence length and punctuation to reflect a dynamic, human writing style. 5. Structure: • Avoid tricolons (three-part structures) unless they occur naturally in the flow of writing. • Resist formulaic or overly neat sentence structures (e.g., “The true meaning of X is Y”). 6. Conclusion Style: • Do not rely on clichéd phrases like “As I [advance] in my education, I will [carry this lesson].” • End essays with a reflective, personal insight that ties back to the main theme, avoiding predictable or generic optimism. • Leave room for ambiguity or open-ended thoughts, reflecting an individual’s genuine self-discovery. 7. Personalisation: • Use first-person anecdotes that are specific and personal. Focus on moments of growth, vulnerability, or transformation. • Avoid writing that feels generic or broadly applicable; focus on unique details or emotions. 8. Creativity: • Incorporate moments of unexpected humour, emotion, or observation to create a distinct and memorable voice. • Avoid excessive perfection in sentence construction; let ideas feel raw and personal. 9. Ending Variations: • Conclude essays in a way that feels true to the story, even if it’s subtle or understated. • Do not force multiple “uplifting” endings or outcomes. Instead, highlight a moment of authenticity or insight.

This prompt helps guide the AI to produce essays that reflect the authentic voice and unique experiences of the writer, steering away from patterns that come across as artificial or formulaic.

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Giving away the farm here ;)

[–]Educational_Post4492HS Senior | International 4 points5 points  (1 child)

hey, i know this is a stupid question but would they still think the essay is generated by AI is the topic if unique/local/special to the student? i used a lot of em dashes (and also possibly some tricolons…) but my ps topic isn’t easily replaceable 🫠

[–]AppHelper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every AO will have their experience with application essays and exposure to AI. I was just sharing my perspective, so I can't say.

ChatGPT produces the best writing when given a detailed outline. As bad as letting ChatGPT make all the literary decisions is, having it make up a topic is much worse. So having an original topic and using ChatGPT are not mutually exclusive.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I learned the glorious and extensive uses of em dashes from Tumblr and Wattpad as a non-native speaker and incorporated it into my writing early on, didn't know it was a sign of ChatGPT. Interesting stuff!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I appreciate OPs post it’s really informative but here’s the thing, no one knows when ChatGPT writes an essay. People like to think they are better at finding patterns, they aren’t. Humans are adept at pattern recognition, even when none exist. Google ‘Apophenia‘. Sorry OP but I think you only believe you can tell. Maybe you’re detecting more than 50% but the false positive rate is going to be far too high.

Using cliches, using the tricolon, using multiple endings are all common in HS essays. I read and edited most my daughter’s essays and I think you’d of determined them to be chatGPT written.

[–]AppHelper[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Sorry OP but I think you only believe you can tell. Maybe you’re detecting more than 50% but the false positive rate is going to be far too high.

I don't deny that the false positive rate is very high. But that's kind of the point. As they say in Westworld: If you can't tell, does it matter? Admissions officers are also human beings with biases and apophenia.

I think you’d of determined them to be chatGPT written.

I would suggest using another tool or getting another set of eyes to look them over as well.

[–]T0DEtheELEVATEDHS Senior 6 points7 points  (7 children)

I must say I'm a little on the fence about this.

UC essays from what I've read and seen are meant to be quite "simple". They don't want creative writing, and are supposed to be pretty straightforward. I think some of the cliches, like the "I [verb]ed that the true meaning of X is not only Y, it's also Z”, are just straightforward and convenient ways to explain something. Considering GPT is pretty formulaic, and UC essays themselves seem relatively straightforward in nature, it would make sense why many common cliches that GPT outputs are similar to essays people write, even without AI intervention. Looking to the future conclusions especially. I'd agree with this information on the common app essay, which is much more creative in nature. On the UC essays, I'm a little less sure...

But I'm just a high school senior that doesn't know much about this so take my words with a grain of salt.

Hopefully I'm not cooked cuz my writing met a decent chunk of those numbers. 5 and 6 are what I'm most worried about. I definitely had an essay with 5 and an essay had something borderlining 6 and 7.

[–]Espron 6 points7 points  (3 children)

AO here. Fantastic post, especially the addendum. Ultimately it becomes “we can just tell”, or most of the time, kinda question what we’re reading. There is a ‘style’ to ChatGPT that is recognizable after a while. It can’t be scrubbed.

Students: if you write the essay yourself, it will not sound like ChatGPT, even if you use some of these habits (I use tricolons too much in my own writing). So please don’t worry about that. I promise you, if you write it yourself, we can tell, and it’s more compelling, no matter the topic. The most interesting thing you can be is yourself.

[–]finnicksluvrHS Senior 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i love em dashes and elaborate sentences so much 😭

[–]sbalhara12 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Wow. Thanks for sharing. Hope GPT ZERO AND Turnitin don’t see Reddit and they would surely like to incorporate these- thinking of this, maybe you can get a consulting gig from them? Send them this post and what’s a few 50-100k to turnitin - they might engage you to consult them on how to improve their detection. Or even try the big fish Open AI- they might be interested in this topic also. Great post overall! If you have time to entertain a follow up question, now that you so amazingly described the areas that have been co-opted by AI, what would be the remaining green pastures, example or examples of an area in writing where no AI has gone before?

[–]Mysterious_Cod5143 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Saving this - thank you so much!! This is incredibly helpful insight and will share with my friends. We're all trying to figure out college admissions for our kids because it's SO different from when we applied that it's mind boggling. Appreciate all your work and research

[–]erianortegaa 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i used #6 in one of my essays (not with chat) 😭😭😭 and it was exactly that paragraph that was marked for ai in a detector but i kept it because it was relevant but idk what to do

[–]Responsible-Wash1971HS Senior | International 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wrote my common app essay as an extended metaphor cooking a traditional dish for my dad. I related each step to a part of my life. I was actually so proud of it and thought it was really original -- but now cooking is a common ChatGPT metaphor?????

I'm really worried now can someone please let me know if I should redo my entire Common App essay? I'm an international student so I feel like that already sets me back. If the admission officer thinks I Chat GPTed my essay I'm basically done for. What should I do? I also love using em dashes and I didn't realise Chat GPT had upgraded to using em dashes until last month. I'm so screwed, I'm freaking out

[–]hellboy001 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I’m a 26 yo Indian (from India, with an Indian education)

Let me say this, we were taught English in theses cliches, this style of writing, including all the quirks you mentioned were the quintessential “good writing” for us.

We were so heavily encouraged to use this style- that our essays in English language as well as literature classes were blueprinted to sound like this.

I now realise that, we were also trained on what chat gpt got trained on. These styles were maybe encouraged precisely because they were the accepted/ popular cliches. I’ve used every single aspect you talked about in every single essay I’ve ever written (probably, not like I kept track or anything). Fortunately my writing wasn’t under scrutiny in college in the states because I graduated in ‘21 when chat gpt wasn’t a thing. (Or unfortunately because, man, could it have cut down so much time in learning)

For most, if not all of us, English was our third language. So we never had the freedom to explore writing styles until out of high school (at which point, we didn’t care how we wrote anymore, unless it was a tech report 😂). We were taught that any good writing had to be like this or more like this to be better.

Disclaimer: when I say ‘us’ I don’t mean all Indians - just a few million kids from my state/ curriculum/ type of schools, in my generation. In a country of 1.5B people, generalising in any aspect is futile

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've been helping Indian students draft and revise essays for nine years. In the past two years, there has been a qualitative shift in the vocabulary, tone, grammar, and structure of essays from CBSE and state-curriculum students in particular.

[–]Party-Sherbert2664 3 points4 points  (0 children)

chatgpt loves using the word intricate. they embellish words so much

[–]Poopy-88 3 points4 points  (0 children)

A majority of this sounds like my writing style—cooked.

[–]Strict-Special3607College Junior 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Was the one kid who confessed the only essay that you actually “confirmed” was AI-generated?

[–]AppHelper[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

No, several told me that they had ChatGPT (or Claude) revise/rewrite their essays. One used Grammarly.

[–]Curious-Curiouserr 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Wait I did a music essay and chose classical music because I grew up listening to it. Am i cooked?

[–]AppHelper[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It's not the topic of classical music that's a hallmark of ChatGPT. It's extended metaphors like "I am but one key on a piano in a global orchestra, and together with instruments of nations around the world, we will create a beautiful, harmonious symphony."

Classical music performance does happen to be a common essay topic, but if that's what you grew up listening to, it could be interesting.

[–]Curious-Curiouserr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh I see. Thank you so much!

[–]CutCauVong 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i wrote my essays by myself but i used chatgpt to proofread and rephrase, and yeah it looks exactly like what you described, am i cooked 🥲

[–]bento-milk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

dang i love emdashes😭

[–]BoringAdvice3460 1 point2 points  (1 child)

i use em dashes a lot, like 6 times in my personal, and 3 times in all of my supplementsals 😭 i didn’t use chat tho… would i get flagged?

[–]kittycopter333 1 point2 points  (0 children)

amazing.

[–]Spacegirllll6HS Senior 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh fuck i did a lot of the extend metaphor and x,y,z thing

[–]sneepsnorkHS Senior 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for posting this 5 days before i submit ivys and UCs, I now hate everything I've written

[–]NoNetwork777 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is fascinating!

[–]closerupper 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I applied to college 6 years ago but this tells me if I did it today, you’d think my essays were written by AI lol

[–]overstreamer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

im cooked this is exactly how i write.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

OP, please guide me. I wrote all my essays on my own. However I used AI tools to re-write some sentences. Now, let us say you feel this is AI written, am I automatically rejected?

I spent 2 months writing my essays, am I cooked? This is a genuine question.

[–]AppHelper[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't know what your essays look like.

As for whether people who seem to have used ChatGPT are "cooked," I don't really think so. Admissions officers will try to find other ways to prove you're academically capable. Those could include interviews and LORs. For international students, English proficiency tests will help a lot.

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[–]Green_Opinion6342 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I’ve naturally got a weird mix of straight and curly quotes in my essay. Completely random and I have not clue how it happened (didn’t use AI). Is that potentially a red flag?

[–]AppHelper[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Apps on mobile devices (including Google Docs) default to straight, and the Common App itself also defaults to straight when editing directly inside. I use a programmable keyboard (Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB) so I can type a curly quote wherever I want.

ChatGPT and Grammarly default to straight quotation marks. ChatGPT oddly uses straight apostrophes for contractions but curly ones for possessives. That's the idiosyncracy.

[–]townandthecity 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I certainly hope admissions officers are not making decisions about which applicant used ChatGPT and which did not. We’re in a kind of witching hour with AI and college essays, because these large language models have been trained on college essays and are not yet sophisticated enough to evince much creativity. At the same time, students who are writing their college essays from scratch are likely utilizing many of the same tropes that applicants have been using for decades, because they are continually asked the same kinds of questions as prompts. That makes it a little difficult to discern which is which.

So I think it’s exceedingly dangerous to make assumptions about an essay using these metrics. That’s because we are at the point where it is impossible to tell if ChatGPT is imitating the writer or if the writer is imitating ChatGPT or utilizing ChatGPT entirely.

As a novelist myself, I take great solace in the fact that LLMs cannot be taught true creativity any more than a writing teacher can teach a student to be creative. The teacher can only open up avenues for that individual to access creativity. So these LLMs can scrape as many novels as they want, but they will never truly be able to match the ingenuity of the human mind when it comes to storytelling or take the stylistic risks of a Joan Didion or jack Kerouac. They can only imitate them after human minds have created them.

However, and this is important, college essays are not asking us to be creative. They’re asking us to answer a certain set of questions in a certain way. They are by definition formulaic, and although we are told that inventiveness and creativity is valued, if the fundamental aspects a college is looking for is not present in these essays, then they are failures in this context.

In other words, if I were to write a prose poem that I felt answered the prompt better than a standard essay might, chances are it would not do me any favors with the AO. Maybe instead of demonstrating originality of thought, it demonstrates that I cannot “follow directions.” As a result, these type of college essays are not present in the data these models are scraping in order to learn how to write college essays.

The prompts are explicit but the questions are implicit: What have you learned? What will make you a good fit for this college? What makes you special? Now add into the mix the way children are taught how to write in school. I would argue that many if not, most of your bullet points could be a attributed to the way writing is taught in American high schools as well as the format, the structure, and the style of all the “successful” essays that so many applicants read in order to prepare for writing their own.

This is why I think it’s troubling to make the assumption that applicants are utilizing ChatGPT at a time when ChatGPT and other large language models are relying so heavily on their scraped data, which are college essays written by high school students no different from the high school students whose essays you have just analyzed.

The college essay is itself a trope, which is one reason why ChatGPT can imitate it so well. By that same token, that is also the reason why an applicant’s essay might also “sound” like a ChatGPT essay. Because she is also trying to hit all of the aspects the trope requires.

It would be pretty problematic at this point in time to allow subjective assessments of essays for plagiarism of ChatGPT to influence admissions decisions when I would argue that it is ChatGPT that is doing the plagiarizing.

[–]Jack60612Gaming 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is really good; nice job, OP. While I am not the most amazing writer ( I hate college essays), I have a fair amount of ML + Gen Model experience. Ironically, by mentioning and providing examples of common ChatGPT issues, you are making them worse for your specific thread. Think of it as pattern reinforcement. It sees examples of you using Tricolons, and that essentially (after a long mess) most likely increases the match of the individual words and then phrases that make tricolons.

To be 100% clear I don't think I explained that last part right, here is a much more helpful video, explains temperature and chances of words (tokens): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjVuJjmgclU

[–]coololus 0 points1 point  (6 children)

What is your take on using chatgpts to humanize text. I have written all of my essays on my own but i was curious how a essay written by chatgpt after humanizing would look like. To be frank, those essays sound much better and they seem nice and appealing. I have tried other websites and they showed promising results as well. So if someone uses chatgpt to write essays and then humanize them, it would put all of us who worked hard in making our own essays simply because theirs sounded much much better.

If i asked chstgpt to use 12th grader vocab, it would completely remove all those fancy words and it seemed like a legit 12th grader would have written them. Tbf i was tempted to do this but at the end i submitted the essays i wrote myself. Although they might be worser than these essays, atleast i have the satisfaction that i wrote em myself

[–]Dramatic-Shape-4228 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Me when I used the exact cliche of leadership 😭 didn’t realize how cringey it sounded lol, changing that asap

[–]Iceberg-man-77 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Hi OP, this is super informative. But will the use of em dashes (something I’ve used several times in my UC essays) really cause the AO to think I’m using chatgpt or some other AI (even though I didn’t).

Same goes for what you’re calling a cliche. The “moving forward blah blah I will use what i’ve learned.”

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I can't say what a reader's perspective will be. But I doubt any one of these things by itself would give someone pause. But if there were four or five of them within a couple of sentences, that might be different. It's all intuitive and subjective. It's not really scientific.

[–]djyeo 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Have you tried this with claude, seems to me claude is better for writing.

[–]Delicious-Cold-7106 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If we write our own essays, is it alright to ask chatgpt to proofread and copy from that?

[–]True_Distribution685HS Senior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh this is fucked up, I use em dashes and tricolons constantly 😭

[–]IndependentAway7751 0 points1 point  (1 child)

good points, but I have to disagree with em dash. I like it and use it a lot!

[–]AppHelper[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of my students messaged me on WhatsApp today because she saw this post on Reddit and was worried because one of her 250-word supplemental essays (one I reviewed with her) contains four em dashes. I told her not to worry!

Just don't overdo it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Salute to you for suffering through all these essays!

[–]Useful_Citron_8216 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I used one em dash in my common app essay, do you think they’ll think I wrote it with chatgpt?

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Lol no. I'm not saying to eliminate an entire punctuation mark from your toolbox.

[–]Silver-Lion22 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This reassured me a lot, thanks! I’m a big fan of listing things so I probably use a lot of tricolors, but my essay’s subject is so specific that there’s no way ChatGPT could come up with it. As for the em dashes—that’s very interesting. I always use these dashes - but I get in trouble with the word counts and sometimes have to take them out. Can I use the word count hack with these dashes—without sounding like AI?

[–]Revolutionary_Gur863 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thanks OP! Great information! Do AOs take in consideration of applicant’s ACT writing score?

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You mean the writing section? Colleges have different policies for that.

[–]Difficult-Low-5339HS Senior 0 points1 point  (1 child)

are you still accepting essays for review?

[–]DymaxionEnthusiast 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The other day I saw an article listing the three words not to use because they're too AI-sounding and I was dying because I had used all of them (myriad, tapestry, and epitome). Extended metaphors? Check. Tricolons? Check, check, check. Emdashes--check! This could be my downfall 😭 (to be clear, of course I did not use AI!)

[–]AppHelper[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Tricolons? Check, check, check. Emdashes--check!

I see what you did there :)

I love the words "myriad" and "epitome." They've been part of my vocabulary for a long time.

[–]Mysterious_Yak3339 0 points1 point  (2 children)

so I realized I used number 6 a lot. This is what I wrote: “As I reflect on my experience in the lab, I realized that it is not just a lab exercise but also a moment that increased my passion for biology. I realized that I wanted to pursue a career where I could continue to learn about the wonders of life and contribute to our understanding of the natural world. Beyond learning just the academic, the dissection class also taught me respect about the wonder that is the multicellular organisms. It seemed like our body parts appeared to just coincidentally work with each other just perfectly, which makes it a wonder and showcased the bodies’ resilience in face of adversaries in the tough conditions of the outside world. I now realize that I needed to focus on the educational benefits and insights of these challenges the dissection and its information it provided me so that I can further understand the world and its complex lifeforms.” Does that really sound like ChatGPT? Am I cooked?

[–]AppHelper[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It doesn't sound like ChatGPT at all because it has many grammatical errors. There are issues with subject-verb agreement, tense shifting, plurals, missing commas, and a dangling participle.

[–]AstronautAntique2884 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I use em dashes often(probably incorrectly), but that’s the only thing I check off of the list. Am I cooked?

[–]Typical-Ticket7476HS Senior 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hi! I had a concern regarding this post. My college essay revolves around Buddhism, John Locke, and my Asian identity. However, I used the metaphor of food particularly because I am a known foodie, and touched on vague elements of my eating disorder that I dealt with throughout my childhood in response of my family issues. To be more specific, I used the metaphor of food as in me creating a new recipe for life, as I previously masked my true self through conformity (which I said was a set menu of courses that weren’t up to my taste). I want to know if my essay might be flagged for AI even though I did not use AI. If so, what are things I can incorporate in my essay to prevent that? Though you elaborated on the cooking metaphor to be ingredients with their own unique flavors being mixed with care coming together to create something delicious, that element was only really near the end of my essay where I stated I connected my newfound purpose/identity/passion to my Asian identity to craft a recipe for my understanding of life. Would that be considered the same?

[–]AppHelper[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For the most part, there aren't going to be "flags" for AI. Food as a metaphor for life has been a cliche far longer than AI has been available. Discussing Buddhism and Locke could be interesting. But I can't really evaluate an essay from a description of it.

[–]evilcheez116 0 points1 point  (1 child)

i'm a terrible writer and my parents(who have the most input on(?) my college essays) are not native speakers, so i use a lot of chatgpt-esque vocabulary.... am i cooked

[–]dreader102 0 points1 point  (2 children)

After reading your post and replies (great post btw!), I'm a little confused.

Are you fine with students using ChatGPT to write essays? Isn't that cheating, and doesn't that spoil their education because they're not actually learning how to write themselves?

I could be misinterpreting your compliments towards ChatGPT, but it doesn't seem like you're against college applicants submitting essays that they didn't write.

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

These are excellent questions, but there are assumptions that aren't clear-cut. What does it mean to "write" something? What does "themselves" mean? There's no formal definition of "cheating" for college admissions essays. Some colleges have tried to provide clarity, but there's a lot of inconsistency. College admissions officers encourage applicants to get feedback on their applications and have others "proofread" them, but there's no formal definition of what "proofread" means. Community-based organizations and non-profits help low-income kids write their applications, and I can guarantee you that not every sentence of every essay comes originally from each student. As far as I know, colleges aren't telling them to stop.

doesn't that spoil their education because they're not actually learning how to write themselves?

College admissions essays are not an academic evaluation. Colleges have other ways to evaluate writing ability. As far as I know, there has never been any attempt to crack down on private writing tutors and/or admissions consultants who aren't helping families commit fraud. If we're looking at pure mechanics, the only substantial difference between ChatGPT and experienced, professional consultants is that ChatGPT is a lot less expensive. What the final product looks like will (hopefully) be different, but this isn't a new issue.

I believe in capturing a student's authentic voice to the extent possible. One service I no longer offer, which I used to, is essay submission and revision. I feel that it's unethical to make changes to an essay without the student's direct involvement. They also learn to write better if I'm advising them on each change. I do still care about that.

After I provide an outline, I have a few students who have come back with first drafts which they've clearly used ChatGPT for. I'll tell them to show me what their original prompt was, and I tell them to draft something, no matter how weak they think it is. Sometimes I will suggest changes, and sometimes I'll run it through a ChatGPT evaluation for structure, tone, content, and writing mechanics.

My prediction is that college essays are going to change substantially. They have to. We're in a strange in-between period where colleges haven't sufficiently adapted.

I'm confused myself, honestly. I don't think the availability of ChatGPT suddenly erases ethics rules, but colleges need to decide what they're going to do moving forward. I'm continuously looking at different ways to use ChatGPT in the writing process that doesn't involve direct writing or re-writing. The end product takes longer, but tends to be of better quality, and the student can take more ownership of it.

[–]torimelrose 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What are your thoughts on using ChatGPT to revise your essay? Like I’ve put in my original essay and asked it “if you were a college admissions reader, what would you assume about me?”

[–]Most_Situation1695 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i quite frankly got pissed off when i saw these in the prompt output, it’s not difficult to reword ai, when you’ve used it for every english assignment possible. Once you get used to changing AI output, to suit your own voice, is when AI becomes overpowered. I remember seeing these exact red flags in my GPT output, so much so that i had to reread my piqs, ps, and supps. Thank God i used gpt for every assignment possible or else i would’ve never tweaked these out of my essays.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I use tricolons all the time! Always have

I think it came from learning to write a paragraph in 5th grade and further; they always wanted things in "3's".

Three ideas a paragraph, three ideas a short essay, ideally 3 sources for your stated conclusion

So I just tend to think in "3's" when writing. And I love alliteration.

Used to be complimented a lot when I was younger.

Helping edit my friends' papers in college would normally result in "JESUS CHRIST SKINSANDPINS! Now it just sounds like you wrote this paper!" 🫠 (Obviously there's other tells in regards to my writing structure, but I'm sure this would be one of them)

[–]Empty-Conversation79 0 points1 point  (0 children)

crashing out about the punctuation. my punctuation is trash, and I asked chat GPT to lmk what parts have poor grammar and changed it...

[–]Total_Love2017 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This professor agrees with you. Here is how he is doing similar work, with college freshman. https://jordosh.medium.com/a-college-assignment-for-the-a-i-era-86de73a49b3e

[–]memeoi 0 points1 point  (1 child)

But how would you know if a essay is ChatGPT if it’s undetectable? Don’t you think this is a bit of selection bias?

[–]Vanceagher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Normally I don’t use semicolons or em dashes very often but, with a very limited word count, they are almost necessary. I’m glad I didn’t come across a post like this before/while writing my essay.

[–]Randomuseename3684 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Shoot I used soooo many em dashes in my PS for my ED. Will they flag me?

[–]AdFearless2849 0 points1 point  (0 children)

.

[–]SharkFinIsHere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Jit just listed super common essay tropes and attributed them all to AI… we’re cooked

[–]sugaryver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't even use chat gpt so I don't know why I'm so worried my essays will be flagged. I use em dashes a lot after taking the SAT and realized they're the same as commas.

[–]up_and_down_idekab07 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those are literally the words I use T-T I legit spam the word “delve” in sm of my essays bc they’re usually about me delving deeper into something. Also, I’m Indian, and they’re not words that we don’t use?

Also, I LIVE for em dashes. I literally eat, breathe and speak them and use them everywhere.

Ngl, I’m not the best at expressing myself or at finding the right words to convey what I mean, so sometimes I tell ask chat.gpt “how can I express _______ better?”  Or “how can I convey _____ idea” and adopt certain verbs/words that it uses. I don’t usually copy paste because (in my experience) chat.gpt uses very descriptive language for everything, even in places it isn’t required, so I just use it to get an idea of what kind of sentence I can construct, or what words I can use to convey what I mean.

[–]Hungry-Basket5864 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Personally I LOVEEEEE en/em dashes idk why I hope admissions officers don’t think I’m using chat LOL

[–]Majestic_8800GT 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude, I write exactly like ChatGPT; I am fucked.

[–]Worldly-Fail-1450 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do the "its not only this or this, but also this" thing a lot aaaaaaaa. Also em dashes.

[–]BlxtzyQueen 0 points1 point  (1 child)

My supplementals have some of these aspects to them and I didn’t use ChatGPT? I used a cooking metaphor through my translation of a phrase from my 2nd language and related it to my major, and I often use tricolons and dashes in my writing because my AP Lang teacher placed a great emphasis on them. Is my writing going to be flagged as AI????

[–]1Lorax 0 points1 point  (4 children)

How can i state my personal growth without using number 5. I thought it was kinda smart but ig its cringe?!

[–]RGBespresso 0 points1 point  (2 children)

5. “I [verb]ed that the true meaning of X is not only Y, it's also Z”

"As an aside, in the past two years, ChatGPT has made me a better writer. And it's not because I have it provide feedback on my social media posts and communications, but because I challenge myself to write better than ChatGPT."

[–]Creative-Jacket4568 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I can tell you used AI automatically starting at 78, damn kids need to learn to use their brainssss

[–]BeneficialArgument 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not only but also not only but also not only but also not only but also!

[–]Specialist_Cheek_539 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm this looks like AI generated

[–]jpastore001 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Amazing. The last part where you point out it’s cliches to itself is very interesting - it’s almost like the llm is tongue and cheek about the whole point - progressively getting sloppier

[–]cryptaneonline 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i dont even know what dashes MS Word default to.

[–]cryptaneonline 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i dont even know what dashes MS Word default to.

[–]goingneon 0 points1 point  (0 children)

actually kinda hate that i feel like i cant use a diverse vocabulary ("fancy words" like delve) anymore because it looks like AI wrote it. But I like writing concisely and demonstrating that i can write beyond a 9th grade level... and i personally think AI "detectors" are complete bunk. ChatGPT is far from the only text generation service out there and many of them can write essays that fool AI detectors by default. we're just shooting ourselves in the foot here.

[–]Amazing_Top_4564 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great insight... now they can just use the below prompt to edit:

"Adjust output to avoid common AI writing patterns and create more authentic, human-like responses. Prioritize originality, creativity, and individuality. Specifically:

  1. Vocabulary: Avoid overused or overly polished words like "delve" or "tapestry." Opt for varied, natural language that reflects the intended voice.
  2. Extended Metaphors: Limit clichéd metaphors (e.g., weaving, cooking, painting) and ensure metaphors feel fresh and relevant to the specific context.
  3. Punctuation: Use punctuation naturally, avoiding overuse of em dashes and ensuring it aligns with common human writing styles, especially in student essays.
  4. Tricolons: Avoid frequent use of tricolons, especially ascending tricolons. Instead, use varied sentence structures and avoid predictable rhetorical devices.
  5. Formulaic Expressions: Refrain from phrases like “I learned that the true meaning of X is not only Y, it’s also Z.” Avoid predictable moral conclusions.
  6. Clichéd Conclusions: Do not rely on conclusions that begin with “As I progress in my journey” or any formulaic ending. Focus on more genuine, personal reflections.
  7. Multiple Endings: Avoid redundant or unnecessary concluding statements. Aim for a concise, meaningful conclusion without padding.

The goal is to produce writing that feels human and unique, moving away from generic or formulaic patterns often associated with AI-generated text."

[–]Absorbe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

GhatGPT made my EM dash using self look fake 🤣

[–]nojudgemyusernamepls 0 points1 point  (1 child)

one negative effect of chatgpt over time would be that people will start to actively avoid these patterns in academia for a long time

[–]jaimex2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I give ChatGPT a sample of my writing before asking it to write for me. Fools everything

[–]Opening-City-3583 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I find all of your findings very interesting. After reading all your points, I re-read my own essay. I found a lot of these AI signals even though I completely wrote my essay all on my own. I feel as though you should also factor how different countries/schools teach their students how to write an essay. I am originally from Singapore, and there, at least my school specifically, we’re taught to write essays more “professionally”, if that makes sense (of course, I’m not writing like that right now as this isn’t that serious). My writing style may be seen as “AI writing” but that’s how I was taught to write.

For point 3, you stated em dashes are also a sign of potential AI use. However, I write on Microsoft Word and whenever I use - to link sentences, it automatically converts it into an em dash, so would you say it would still be considered as a sign for AI use?

At the end of the day, I think that just because my essay sounds like AI doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be proud of it. That applies for everyone else too. I didn’t want to change how my essay was structured because I was scared it would ultimately lose the integrity of what I was trying to convey.

[–]BigUwuBaby 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Lmao I wrote exactly like this when I was applying 6 years ago

[–]AppHelper[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And ChatGPT was probably trained on your writing.

[–]DesperateForDD 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Which version of ChatGPT did you test against at the end there? I wonder if the latest and greatest fares any better

[–]pukkaHB 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How do I save this for later? I would love to be able to always come back to it. Thank you for sharing!

[–]gillemp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. With it (and the help of ChatGPT 😅 + some previous pre-prompt of mine) I've crafted the following Pre-Prompt that anyone can use. Maybe it works:

Ensure the text style is friendly but formal, balancing approachability with professionalism.

If reasoning is required, provide clear, step-by-step explanations.

Before giving a final answer, always check for any missing information and ask for relevant details when needed.

Use precise, context-appropriate vocabulary and avoid overly generic or repetitive terms. If metaphors and analogies are used, they must be original and relevant, steering clear of clichéd themes like weaving, cooking, or classical art unless they add significant value.

Punctuation should flow naturally, minimizing reliance on em dashes, and formatting should prioritize clarity and user-friendliness.

Avoid predictable rhetorical devices like tricolons (three-part lists) or clichéd phrasing such as “the true meaning of X is not only Y but also Z.”

Conclude answers cleanly, tying back to the main points without introducing new ideas or creating multiple endings.

Responses should feel relatable yet polished, with a tone tailored to the user’s intent.

Prioritize creativity and originality when needed, avoiding formulaic or repetitive patterns by incorporating vivid examples and specific details to make responses unique while staying concise, focused, and directly relevant to the user’s request.

This is the conversation where I've created it (plus latter I made some adjustments): https://chatgpt.com/share/6756d912-875c-8003-adfd-804a7e27fb4e