ChatGPT resumes accounted for 30%+ of the ones we just received. Any ideas on how to vet the candidate without it being an interrogation?

HitDerpBit · 2023-03-22T18:46:49+00:00

I used ChatGPT to rephrase things in a more professional tone, but to write a whole resume? That sounds ridiculous lol

I'm not sure that ChatGPT is your problem here. Faked resumes have been since forever.

ballpointpin · 2023-03-22T09:14:38+00:00

Had a candidate last week most definitely type out an answer to a coding question from chatGPT. Five seconds after completing it, I asked them "what does line 17 do?"...and they were completely dumbfounded by something they just wrote.

0x847363837383 · 2023-03-22T06:44:54+00:00

A few years ago at a F100 corp I was at, we were interviewing candidates for a contract position from various firms. This was also my first experience being on an interview panel.

There were a significant amount of candidates that we suspected as cheating in one way or another - one we could explicitly hear the mic picking up a different voice before the candidate gave us her answer.

My approach was to pick resume bulletpoints that either I or someone else on the call had expertise on, and drill deep about what they did and their approach. We had a slack chat going amongst the panel where we would try to arrive at a consensus if the candidate was genuine or cheating within the first 10-15 minutes. If consensus was “this person is legit”, we would transition to an actual interview, similar to the breadth and system design you mention. If consensus was that something felt off, we would keep drilling deeper to practice our detective skills and have some entertainment.

To cherry pick the bulletpoints you mentioned - I would start with something like “How did you go about structuring the Ansible playbooks you created? What did you do to troubleshoot them?”, expecting to hear something about tasks and debug printing vars etc.

KravenX42 · 2023-03-22T06:37:16+00:00

I think if you feel this is a threat than there is an existing weakness in your hiring process, it’s not like people have never lied or copied a resume before.

I would personally just judge on existing merits; if the claim makes sense then fine, but if it’s suspicious I would just mark it as suspicious and probably trash it in the same way if some hand wrote it.

Outside of Intern / Junior the false positives are going to be so small that it’s not worth thinking about.

BlueberryPiano · 2023-03-22T11:56:48+00:00

As much as people here scoff at the HR/recruiter screening call, this is exactly what they are for. Give them some very basic guidelines to go fishing and they will be able to weed out the vast majority of complete fakes because you don't need to be technical to be able to spot "complete bumbling idiot, who suddenly has perfect clarity" (someone looking up stuff on wikipedia), or just completely bumbling (might lose a small percentage to 'very nervous', but will also weed out those who are full of shit and those who can't communicate basic information).

HR likely wants to ask them some basic questions anyway like salary expectations, how much notice they would like to give to their current job/how early they can start etc. Let someone in HR spend 15 minutes with the candidate that frustration. If no HR, do a 15 minutes screening yourself.

As others have said, the problem of fakes and copiers is not new, even though they found a new tool to fake/copy from.

dragonowl1990 · 2023-03-22T06:19:33+00:00

does it really change that much?? It’s not like it was difficult to put the right things on a resume before AI, the generated sentence,,, it’s also not a great way to represent ansible experience on a resume, they know they’re called playbooks, great.

I think you’re doing the right thing, deprioritize the suspicious resumes and just do a brief phone screen, it’s just always going to be a crapshoot, but at the senior level you should be able to just have a conversation and know if the guy knows his stuff or not.

teerre · 2023-03-22T08:28:27+00:00

Wasn't this a problem before? Every time I hire for a position, unless it's a heavily vetted one, at least 33% of candidates cannot talk about the things they wrote own their resumes.

Also, it's a bit worrying you cannot think of anything in your job that cannot be done using ChatGPT. If that's true, you might start considering not hiring anyone at all, that would be no point, just use ChatGPT.

rush22 · 2023-03-22T13:24:41+00:00

It's not necessarily ChatGPT.

I have had groups of "students" applying from fly-by-night "coding schools."

I noticed when 3 different people all had the same odd (and non-sensical) answer to a "tell about a time when..."

They were well-rehearsed, and all had great interview skills, but their example made no sense and was exactly the same, so I red flagged them to check them out.

All had different backgrounds until I dug deeper. Some of the companies listed on their resume had websites that looked kinda crap and generic. I searched the "CEO" of one of these companies, and look who showed up on a different website... the VP at a company another candidate supposedly worked for. From there, I eventually determined the person behind sites also ran a coding school. The school offered "resume perfection" and boasted a "100% job placement guarantee." The school was in some weird industrial area behind a tow truck company.

I don't entirely blame the candidates--they were clearly being taken advantage of--but discovering this was a bit of an eye opener.

I even found the odd answer to the interview question on a "pass the interview" website forum. And one of the commenters had the same name as the school "owner".

So it could be a lot simpler (or complex, depending on how you look at it) than ChatGPT. Or both, even.

I never proved it, but I also suspected a recent hire had got in from the school. They weren't positioned to be a "mole" but it makes sense if one gets in then all the others will apply.

Demiansky · 2023-03-22T12:51:04+00:00

Don't have advice, I just find it funny that ChatGPT resumes have stuff like feature branch merges on GIT as being a relevant skill. It's like a long distance runner saying that one of their skills is tying their shoes. It's technically true, but something so fundamental to the task that putting it on a resume is pointless.

I have seen some resumes pre-ChatGPT though that say these kinds of things, but it's usually part of a resume that is 8 pages long (the applicant basically put every function from every library that they ever used).

Vok250 · 2023-03-22T14:18:47+00:00

Just throw their resume out. Hiring should be about finding the needles in the haystack, not inspecting every blade of hay. No one has the time or money to interview people who can't even write their own resume. If something is a red flag to you, bring it up or bin the resume. There is no shortage of good candidates right now.

kbielefe · 2023-03-22T12:33:34+00:00

I had a candidate like that before chatgpt. He would stall then give an answer that sounded like it was read from wikipedia. My colleague caught on really quickly and started asking "are you a bot" type questions. Things that are difficult to google, but are simple for a human who has worked in those technologies to answer.

These are the candidates who ruin interviewing for everyone. If you think interview questions are inane, it's because we don't know yet if you are one of these fakers.

nijuashi · 2023-03-22T07:41:17+00:00

I don’t think it’s a sin to use automation to generate a resume. A real person can be hired to write one as well.

However, a candidate who can’t be bothered to review his own resume is likely not worth your time to interview, and that practice has been the norm in the industry for quite a while.

engineered_academic · 2023-03-22T12:50:38+00:00

I generally pick out the parts I know about and ask them detailed questions about their knowledge on a particular topic. I'm looking for when I get to "I don't know."

Like if they list Nagios on their resume, I'm probably the 1% of people who has actually used it. I'll ask about which version of Nagios they were using, how they liked it, and what they didn't like about it. If they can't tell me much, it's a big red flag that they weren't REALLY involved in the setup and usage of Nagios.

Long pauses after questions will generally indicate someone's googling stuff. A person who has real world experience can launch right into a meaningful discussion on the topic. I don't know, I can just tell when a candidate is good at something, but more often I can tell when they're passionate about something.

zayelion · 2023-03-22T08:28:49+00:00

We tried doing a couple of the initial interviews the other day on the phone before we caught onto the chatGPT resumes, the interviewee on the other end didn't have a clue about what was listed on their resume. It was only after a couple bumbling answers that they regurgitated what seemed to be a wikipedia type summary of how they used that technology. My guess is it took them a few moments to read over the chatGPT prompt and determine what pieces were relevant to the question we asked.

Not everything has to be asynchronous or automated, this is the approach. I would do all of the Chatbot-like ones first one day. And then the others the next day to have a comparison. Its a simple double check to make sure there are no false positives. The bot had to have pulled that information from somewhere so that means there is some formulation of people out there that write like that.

Also, you are going to have people that use the bot to write better-sounding text. Screening is just part of the job, its like testing. Just do it.

KFCConspiracy · 2023-03-22T12:38:54+00:00

I feel like people can and do make stuff up on their resumes on their own, and were doing that before Chat GPT. This is kind of a gift in a way. There are now some signature phrases that tell you that the resume was made up.

The same techniques to spot liars still work here, asking questions about specific technologies on the resume. Asking them what some of the drawbacks of a particular technology on their resume is. Asking them why they chose that technology... Those questions, I've found quickly show you who's lying about that.

As an aside: Although the amusing thing about the Nagios thing, I've genuinely used it in my career. Not anymore, but I have. Although I don't include it on my resume because I'm not really targeting a devops role.

donjulioanejo · 2023-03-22T19:30:10+00:00

Hiring for DevOps right now. You just described 30% of resumes we get.

It's always an Indian name, always one specific format, and they wouldn't even look suspicious if we didn't get 50 almost identical resumes.

My first thought was some outsourcing or resume-writing companies doing it and just replacing the names, but ChatGPT makes total sense.

The_Jeremy · 2023-03-22T15:47:16+00:00

we could assign take home work if the interview goes well -we typically don’t and for devops it doesn't make much sense- but they might use ChatGPT to fake it till they make it.

If they can pass your take home interview with ChatGPT, then either they should be hired or your take home should be different.

iprocrastina · 2023-03-22T18:10:09+00:00

If there's lies on the resume it goes in the trash, simple. I'm not hiring someone with such shit ethics that they fabricate experience, so no point in interviewing if there's anything on the resume that's an obvious tell.

As for verifying experience during an interview, I'd argue that if your current interview methods can't uncover fabricated or greatly embellished experience then your methods need an overhaul.

For example, at my company we drill down into your experience. Starts off like "tell me about a time you..." and then you ask follow up questions like "why did you make that decision?", "can you go into more detail about...", "what was the outcome?", and "what would you do differently if you did it again?" It's really hard to keep up a convincing lie when asked those questions. Contradictions start popping up, the candidate will struggle to provide details they should know, etc.

So, with the Ansible example you gave, you could ask things like "So it looks like you've got some Ansible experience, can you talk about that?", "What motivated you to automate platform environmemt setup?", "How did you do the automation?", "Why did you do it like that?", "What other automation and improvements do you think could be added?", "Would you have done anything differently if you did it again?" By asking these questions you'll get an idea of how they make decisions, set priorities, create designs, and work with others. You'll get a much better idea of what exactly they actually did. And as a bonus you'll find out if they're full of shit too.

ritchie70 · 2023-03-22T19:07:28+00:00

Around 15 years ago, I was weeding out "Expert C Programmers" by asking two questions:

What does asterisk - you know, the star, usually on the 8 key - do in C aside from multiplication? [Any mention of pointers was accepted as correct.]
What does the "static" keyword do? [It actually means different things in different contexts; any correct answer was accepted.]

On more than one phone interview, I could hear them furiously typing, presumably trying to figure out how to Google "C *" successfully.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Now it's a machine writing a BS resume instead of a recruiter.

ferociousdonkey · 2023-03-22T11:08:59+00:00

Aren't hiring people just looking for keywords anyway? So if they can automate it why shouldn't the other end be able to?

Why not check their linkedin or GitHub account?

lvlint67 · 2023-03-22T11:45:08+00:00

Setup repository on GitHub, merging code from develop branch to master branch and make it ready for deployment.

Send an email and ask if the person has anything on GitHub you can look at if it's not linked on resume.

FailedGradAdmissions · 2023-03-22T12:24:27+00:00

You could go old school and bring ppl into the office to interview them in person

GrayLiterature · 2023-03-22T14:49:33+00:00

Something that I think you could probably ask, which tbh would throw me for a massive panic if I was in that situation, is asking something like “We saw on your resume that you wrote ‘Setup repository on GitHub, merging code from development branch to master branch and make it ready for deployment’, can you describe to us why you felt that was important to communicate to us?”

You can replace that with something else for instance, but it’s going to force the person to defend something remarkably obvious, which is going to make them fumble.

You also get the added bonus to understand how they think about value propositions. Unless they provide some stellar example that blows your socks off, you’ll see how they articulate value and justify value delivery.

I mean if they can’t justify the worst points on their resume, could they likely justify work direction and the value of that work to stake holders?

jdlyga · 2023-03-22T19:51:41+00:00

We're only in trouble if we can't distinguish top tier candidate resumes from AI generated resumes. If I see stuff like "merging code from develop branch to master branch and make it ready for deployment" that feels very suspect.

I have no problem with using ChatGPT to phrase existing resume points to sound more natural, especially if English isn't your first language. But it has to seem authentic.

SlaimeLannister · 2023-03-22T20:12:04+00:00

If ChatGPT accurately creates a resume in line with a candidate’s experience, is there an issue? A trickier question, what’s your tolerance for resume embellishment, with and without ChatGPT? Because that has been happening forever, it’s just easier with ChatGPT.

Tulikettuja · 2023-03-22T06:44:41+00:00

I wouldn't bother calling them in. They couldn't even be bothered to write the CV themselves, so they're either disinterested, lazy or lying. They haven't even proofread it to remove the worse parts. That's like leaving in spelling errors.

I've used ChatGPT to write basic test suites generate me some dummy JSON and fetch me a regex. I'm not saying it's not a tool.

But if they can't even be arsed to introduce themselves without it - nah. Being able to communicate well with other humans is a huge part of the job, and they clearly can't or won't do it well.

thisismyfavoritename · 2023-03-22T11:39:04+00:00

people were already cheating without chatgpt and faking it until they make it. Nothings changed.

Madscurr · 2023-03-22T13:36:22+00:00

The strategy my team has been using is to dive deep into the candidate's favorite project; what did they learn, what did they enjoy most, what was hardest, what kind of teamwork was involved, what made them want to pull out their hair. I've found the nuances of those kinds of questions are 1) atypical for the industry, so candidates don't have prepared answers, and 2) can't be answered with buzzwords/bullshit. Also, always ask about a time they made a significant mistake, the bigger the better, and how they handled it; any senior developer ought to have plenty to choose from, and it's important to know how they handle that, especially what preventative steps they've learned to take.

Then we give them a couple small, practical technical challenges that actually represent typical day to day tasks for the role. For junior devs, we give them a code sandbox with a bug and ask them to find & fix it (live coding), to while for senior devs we give them a pull request to review with a variety of problems in it to see what they find any how they give feedback (take home, expected 30-60 minutes). Again, you can't bullshit actually solving a problem in front of me or having a gentle tone in code review

Feroc · 2023-03-22T14:11:29+00:00

Our approach is now going to be to sort the wheat from the chaff, any resumes that look suspicious go in one pile and the rest go in another pile for a second read through.

I am not sure if this is a good approach. You are not looking for professional resumes authors, you are looking of software developers. Using the right tools for a job is a key competence for a software developer and ChatGPT seems like a good tool to use if you want to write a better resume.

Where you should work on are your interview questions and assignments that you use to test your candidates. Like how good is the test if ChatGPT can answer it? And if it can answer it, is it relevant that your candidate needs to know the answer by heart? Would it be better if they google the solution? Probably won't matter.

I think giving the candidates a rather easy coding challenge, that they should solve live, to see if they actually have coded something themselves is enough for the first stage. For everything else I just prefer talking. What projects did they work on? What kind of issues did came up and how did they solve it? How did their workflows look like in the past? How did they handle automatic testing? Deployment? Code reviews?

That should help more than some leet code puzzles or questions about the top 10 design patterns.

infomiho · 2023-03-22T14:20:05+00:00

I mean, I used https://coverlettergpt.xyz to generate some cover letters and that's kinda cool. I'm always struggling with expressing myself around my accomplishments. But I did feed it my real CV.

On the topic: ask them to tell you latest hard problem they solved, what was their role in that. I guess you can really catch them with details.

doktorhladnjak · 2023-03-22T14:53:14+00:00

The best indication that someone can do a job is if they’ve done it before. When interviewing, ask them to explain what they’ve done. Dig into details. This approach is better than asking hypotheticals because it’s harder to cram for or fake.

FinalDevice · 2023-03-22T14:53:29+00:00

Oh man, I actually have Nagios experience. It's from many years ago and I'd never put it on a resume though.

It's possible some of your candidates generated resumes without using ChatGPT, but used the same sources: Copying from readily available online resumes. This isn't a distinct problem from the resumes that list every technology the candidate heard mentioned in each of their last 93 positions. It's just a bunch of noise. When possible, I like to filter out resumes that read as though the candidate has no understanding of the underlying technologies and it's just puking buzzwords. You can't tell one candidate from another when their resumes all are a mess.

foxbase · 2023-03-22T16:51:56+00:00

Oh ffs I hate people sometimes. This is why we can’t have nice things. You know if this becomes a big problem openai will start banning all resume related help. I’ve used it to rephrase my existing resume to be more concise but having it generate a fake resume just seems like a stupid decision.

I don’t know how to counter this…maybe feed the resume into chatgpt and ask it if it seems like it’s fake lol. Other than just asking questions on the resume which could take up a ton of time if they claim to have a long history.

As an aside I didn’t know nagios was so niche. I used it when I did NetOps a long time ago, no wonder nobody knows what I’m talking about when I mention it lol.

Prince-Otter · 2023-03-22T16:55:57+00:00

akh i see, so recruiters are against people build their CV with AI, for nonsense, nitpicking and biased arbitrary reason

QueryingQuagga · 2023-03-22T17:37:15+00:00

Well writing the answer here kinda defeats the purpose, now doesn’t it?

qpazza · 2023-03-23T03:20:55+00:00

What does it matter if they used chatGPT? Plenty of people lie on their resume, or have someone else write one for them. Recruiters regularly help edit resumes or do it themselves (with permission). Treat them all the same way. Ask relevant questions and asses their responses.

ba-na-na- · 2023-03-23T10:16:56+00:00

Yes, this is exactly what I assumed would happen. Similar to have Microsoft 365 Copilot ads showing a CEO saying "write a memo telling the employees X" and the GPT basically generates a bunch of noise which could have been expressed in a single sentence.

Just a bunch of noise which only creates more cognitive load for the consumer of the content.

I feel like we will now require ChatGPT to dismiss AI-generated resumes, which will generate false positives.

notMyRealNameObvious · 2023-03-22T06:55:17+00:00

Does it matter if a resume is written with chatgpt or not? I have 8 years of experience and use gpt to convert my experience into a resume.

Give everyone a fair chance.

If they know nothing about the job that will be exposed in a normal interview.

theevilsharpie · 2023-03-22T09:11:33+00:00

Many of the other resumes also included things that no senior, or even junior devops person would put on their resumes

I saw similar resumes during my most recent hire. Pages upon pages of fluff.

The recruiter doing the initial screening talked with a few of these folks, and 0% passed the incredibly basic tech screen. Not a single one.

I don't have any open roles at this point, but if I need to hire again, I'd just straight-up filter these resumes out (or drop them into the "don't both unless the candidate pool is seriously dry" pile). Thankfully, they're pretty easy to spot, even at a glance, so filtering them out doesn't take much effort.

CowBoyDanIndie · 2023-03-22T11:18:19+00:00

I wonder if you can just ask chatgpt if it generated the resume lol.

Herp2theDerp · 2023-03-22T19:26:21+00:00

How about you stop making getting a job such a awful experience?

thecodingart · 2023-03-22T11:15:23+00:00

Who cares if ChatGPT is used to write out content. That doesn’t matter. If they’re lying on their resume, that has nothing to do with using ChatGPT…

funbike · 2023-03-22T12:23:40+00:00

You put value into resumes? You shouldn't.

A resume is just a way to know whom to contact for an initial phone screen. All I do is look for a few keywords that are relevant to the position (e.g. SQL). The real value of a resume comes during the interview so you can discuss its contents.

Resumes have always been untruthful, and therefore not something that should be used to judge worthiness. If that's how you've been interviewing, you may have lost good candidates because you wasted your time with the liars with impressive looking, but incorrect, resumes. It sounds like what you are about to do is even worse and you may lose even more good candidates.

The worst case here could be a lot of initial Zoom screens. For this reason our screens are only 15 minutes; just enough time to greet them, set expectations, ask 2 easy tech questions (as a screen), and make sure they aren't insane. We ask that they don't type, and that they are prepared to Zoom (show up a few minutes early, test microphone, camera, audio).

After that we send them a 30 minute code challenge, to get rid of most of the liars. Sure, some may cheat; we expect that. But most won't, and we can tell quickly during the real interview, which we will cut short if we determine they lied or cheated on their resume, phone screen, or code challenge. Up until after the code challenge, we have put in very little effort to research this person (we haven't looked at their github or linkedin, or read their resume fully).

Everything before the real interview is just a filter to remove the resume liars. The real interview is the only step where we actually are evaluating if the person should be hired.

troublemaker74 · 2023-03-22T12:16:46+00:00

How about this... You use the ChatGPT API to flag resumes that are AI generated, and auto-reject them. AI all the way down, baby.

lenswipe · 2023-03-22T12:18:43+00:00

I've used ChatGPT to write cover letters before and (with minor tweaks) just submitted them verbatim. I started doing that because I found I was spending a great deal of time crafting a nice cover letter to just get a generic workday rejection immediately after. Of late however, I've just stopped writing them altogether since nobody apparently reads them.

An entire resume though? Nah. That was written by me (though as others point out, I have used it here and there to help summarize something or reword the odd thing)

Grey_wolf_whenever · 2023-03-22T12:57:58+00:00

What's the difference between using chatgpt and having a graphic designer do your resume? I don't exactly see a problem with letting the AI help you out, it's a tool like any other. I don't think I would want it to write it out of thin air but it depends how much input it gets.

But yeah, if all they did was give it a really basic prompt that's not great. Do people really do that?

Alecsplaining · 2023-03-22T18:58:07+00:00

The ability to use these tools is a positive if it improves the quality of their writing without introducing lies or misleading statements that they haven't corrected. So basically you just need to check if the statements are true in an interview which you should have been doing already?

questionor · 2023-03-22T20:23:25+00:00

Why is this a problem? The candidate would be choosing to lie not chatgpt. Whether someone scours linked in by hand for things to add to their resume that they don't actually know or use chatgpt, that's on the candidate. And there is nothing wrong with a candidate giving their info to chatgpt and asking for it to format it and rewrite the wording. It's a tool, nothing more. It's just better at doing it than Clippy. 📎

No-Proposal-2145 · 2023-03-23T23:45:54+00:00

Who cares man, can they do they job or what?

Sterotypical_Trope · 2023-03-22T15:04:29+00:00

If they sound indian, disregard. Simple.

originalchronoguy · 2023-03-22T15:23:23+00:00

Well, for senior DevOps. I have a pretty simple litmus test. Since we work with containers/dockers/k8. I always ask this question in a screener.

"I am a developer who can't run node in my container. I do my npm install just fine on my host. However, when I start my docker container, I get this error: ERR ADDRESS UNREACHABLE" How do I resolve this? And tell me what is the source of the problem? Explain this behavior.

Very basic. Not a trick question. Something that happens all the time. The container can't build and that is the first line in the error message. If they can't answer that, I don't move them forward. Answer is this. The container can't resolve the artifact server to download artifacts to do a build. Why, how? Easy. It can't resolve DNS. The engineer should know basic Linux to shell into a container, check hosts, nslookup, and find ways to resolve a DNS inside a container. For a senior Devops engineer, I'd expect they encounter DNS issue or simple command line Linux problem solving.We pretty much eliminate most as the other questions start to go downhill from here. E.G. How to shell into a K8 pod w/ a specific namespace.

So come up with some of the most basic screeners to eliminate early. I dont care what is on their resume. If they list a bullet point, it is fair game to ask. "So you implemented Hashicorp Vault?" Great explain me the entire lifecycle of how a simple flow worked. And since you architected it, did you do a daemonset or sidecar?

de86 · 2023-03-22T20:48:11+00:00

Who cares if someone used chatGPT to write a resume? Whether it was written by them or not it's your job as the interviewer to drill down on the claims people make in their CV. If you are noticing many of the same sentences popping up and assume it's chatGPT then make sure to ask them about their experience using the technologies. In your example Ansible, you can ask them "can you tell me what Ansible is?", "Why did you choose Ansible over other options?", "Please tell me about the pipeline you built/maintained in as much detail as you can".

Every time I get into an interview I'm asking candidates to qualify/expand upon all of the claims they make in their CV. As far as I'm concerned a CV is just a list of someone's experiences. You can tell very quickly whether someone is bullshitting by just getting them to talk about their CV. Honestly life would be much easier if CVs were a just a bulleted list of sentences rather than being held up as some sort of golden ticket to an interview. CVs tell you very little about a candidate. Talking to them tells you everything.

2023-03-22T12:04:02+00:00

If I was given take home work then I would just rescind my interest lol

Rymasq · 2023-03-22T12:30:06+00:00

ask them to talk about a specific project in detail. find a project that sticks out and really vet it in terms “what is the problem statement, what is the architecture, what issues came up” this will quickly pull out who is real and isnt

sentencevillefonny · 2023-03-22T13:03:49+00:00

Most people are trying to pass ATS so you even have a chance at seeing their resume. Check out portfolios, repos, and interview thoroughly?

juicemania · 2023-03-22T13:37:07+00:00

Just dump a bunch of keywords at the bottom of your resume in white font like normal people (is this still a thing? Lol)

JackSpyder · 2023-03-22T13:37:54+00:00

Resumes are horseshit anyway. Someone utilising chatgpt might be quite good.

These days I just link my LinkedIn, and If they insist on a CV I send them a screenshot of my LinkedIn.

edmguru · 2023-03-22T14:13:32+00:00

but they might use ChatGPT to fake it till they make it

Sorry this is the future. We're all gonna use some form of AI pair programmer with us. To not include this isn't good. Do the take home project, have them explain all of it over a video.

cjthomp · 2023-03-22T14:25:11+00:00

Are you hiring professional resume writers or are you hiring developers? Make sure that you're "vetting" the right things...

it200219 · 2023-03-22T14:32:13+00:00

Also those suspicious looking company names in middle of nowhere & doing amazing AWS Architect role

grgext · 2023-03-22T16:38:57+00:00

I recently had to re-write a friend's resume, as he had paid a professional company to write it, but it was mostly mind-numbing nonsense.

bin-c · 2023-03-22T16:46:00+00:00

i was worried when i read the title because i used chatgpt to help with my resume, but not like that lol

globalnamespace · 2023-03-22T19:47:17+00:00

I used it to help me word the various bullet points on my resume. With little to no feedback on any rejections and a terrible job seeking market, it's impossible to figure out my rather conservatively written resume is falling afoul of any sort of AI screening.

Which isn't fun, writing resumes is hard. And I don't seem to even be getting to the the pre-screening and leetcode round of applications very often. I was trying my best to represent my skills. It's not something I do full time, so I hope companies are cutting people a bit of slack.

dllimport · 2023-03-22T19:59:52+00:00

You can ask ChatGPT if it wrote something. Just feed it back in and be like how likely is it that you wrote this

Wildercard · 2023-03-22T20:10:08+00:00

Put the resume in ChatGPT and ask it whether it looks like a human input or a ChatGPT input.

MisesAndMarx · 2023-03-22T20:11:48+00:00

I keep my written job experience per job small, listing tech/languages/frameworks, and explaining the product I worked on. If they want to know more they can ask; interview me, if you will.

The pseudo STAR format that people spin their job descriptions into to fit the tech used, is usually cheesy anyway and is pretty hamfisted. Chances are that ChatGPT does it because everyone does it. Personally, I have more success keeping it basic, with the only people having an issue with it being non-technical, and even then it was a non-issue.

But ultimately, if ChatGPT didn't lie, or exaggerate their experience, I'd say it's more an indicator that the job application process should change imo

Bardez · 2023-03-22T21:02:32+00:00

I was going to ask how you could tell based on the title. But damn. It's pretty telling from the background.

HipHopHuman · 2023-03-22T21:10:17+00:00

In a hypothetical sense, imagine you are in the process of hiring a game developer. What do game developers know? Well, they know game loops, simulation, shaders, particles etc... so a pretty good technical assessment for a game developer applicant that can be easily discerned from AI-assisted coding might be something like this:

Create a water droplet particle simulation. The simulation must consist of a background image and animated water droplets. The water droplets should refract the image behind them, and move along the screen in a way that water droplets on a window would. You are free to use any libraries and shortcuts you wish.

If you feed that into ChatGPT, the code it generates will be very simple and generic. The result will not even closely approximate the requirement in the assessment because there is a lot of nuance in the question. If an applicant relies on a language model to perform such an assessment, they would most likely have to refine the prompts until the criteria of the assessment is met - but that's just it. With every prompt the user makes to have the model tweak the code, the more likely it is that the model will encounter a hallucination error. This is where it presents misinformation as fact. This can be as wild as denying the existence of historical events, or as subtle as changing the implementation of a function inside a piece of code that you didn't ask it to change. If you have a deep and technical understanding of code, recognising the patterns of hallucination should be pretty easy.

That's my advice, but it is based a lot on my own speculation and my own experience getting a language model to write code. It's probably not a scalable strategy because there is a high chance of language models evolving to the point that these "hallucinations" become increasingly difficult to detect.

I think the real problem here is a lot bigger than just your company. There is an opportunity here for companies to strategize and get an edge over their competitors by figuring this problem out before other companies do, which is understandable, but at the same time I think the professional world as a whole needs to have a very global discussion about how this should be handled because it is incredibly likely that the only solutions which will be presented to you here are temporary and will be increasingly harder to future-proof as language models evolve.

oso00 · 2023-03-22T21:15:58+00:00

I wonder if there isn't an AI counter-measure you can use to screen for this.

Fight fire with fire.

Foreign_Clue9403 · 2023-03-22T21:18:45+00:00

Scrolled for a bit and I want to introduce an angle of this that I didn’t see mentioned, which is the fact that AI reads resumes as well. ATS systems have incentivized people to format and write resumes in a way that the correct keywords show up.

Using GPT3 only to completely face plant on the first real question is bringing to light the absurdity of candidates writing resumes with AI so an AI can read them first. By the time a human is involved the pool is still full of filler.

I submit that resumes as a whole need to be re-thought over a bit. What purpose are they good for, and how much info is really needed as a result? The first suggestion I have is that if a resume is intended to just get to a phone screen, make it way shorter. 1/2 a page, or 15-20 lines at most. Maybe even go for 5-7 lines. Force the candidate to think and highlight the most important aspects and projects that relate to the job requirements.

As someone who’s reviewed resumes and candidates before, I know people don’t scrutinize every line listed in a traditional format- a rich resume is nice but only certain parts will stick out. The main criticism against a strict resume limit is that it favors those who can write impressively and concisely- and I think GPT3 makes it possible for everyone to at least get close, provided that it’s supplied with a real list of projects and experiences as input.

After that, the phone screen can start with open ended questions about the listed projects/exp because the candidate must have a rich memory of them if they’re being used in that tight space.

TL;DR The conventional resume should be reduced to half in size. It will reward conciseness, quality, and specifics even if people use a bot to write a summary from their actual experiences. If on the other hand they use a blind prompt from ChatGPT, it will be easier to automatically sniff and match up because of the word/line limit.

knowledgebass · 2023-03-22T23:20:08+00:00

Setup repository on GitHub, merging code from develop branch to master branch and make it ready for deployment.

Emperor Palpatine voice: Most impressive.

beatissima · 2023-03-22T23:53:46+00:00

Ask them if they used ChatGPT to generate their resumes. Toss the resumes of those who don't own up to it.

burdalane · 2023-03-23T00:53:16+00:00

I use Nagios and would include it on a resume, with little idea that it's uncommon now.

woundedkarma · 2023-03-23T01:17:15+00:00

geezus, just have them do a whiteboard in front of you. don't insult them with fizzbuzz, but if this is senior stuff explain what's going on with the world of gpt/ai. If they don't get it, dismiss them right there. Any senior dev who isn't aware of AI right now isn't worth shit.

Then, have them design something in front of you. Design is going to be better. Or.. just have another senior talk to them. If you're all out of seniors because you have a sucky company, then get the juniors/midrange people to talk to them.

It doesn't have to be a test. Have a conversation. If they can't talk reasonably about development, testing, etc then you've solved your problem. Also you'll get a handle on whether they have a personality at all.

newtosf2016 · 2023-03-23T17:59:51+00:00

Why does it matter if they use ChatGPT to make the resume. TBH, seems like a brilliant idea that more people should do.

Stop worrying about how they wrote the resume, worry more about do they know the things they say they know. It's like being mad someone used a spell checker.

GeekOnTheLoose · 2023-03-23T18:17:47+00:00

I believe chatGPT is only useful to make resumes look more professional and make sure not to have any grammatical mistakes. Not sure how ATS would implement something to flag resumes which were made out of chatGPT

You can easily filter out candidates during the first 1-2 rounds by asking basic questions initially

Then incrementally raise the difficulty of the questions based on what they have mentioned in their resume.

If that candidate gives satisfactory answers then they can move to the next round.

Here you can ask them about their thought process behind their projects. What made you choose this?. Why did you do this? What would happen if you do this?

It's a difficult concept/technology then knowing how it works behind the scenes should be fine (going breathwise is enough here)

It's an easy concept/technology then going in depth during the interview makes more sense.

jfalcon206 · 2023-03-24T20:35:45+00:00

I ran mine through mostly to increase brevity in my descriptions to make it a bit more concise.

The problem with that is obviously I'm removing details on the "how" for the skills to product keypoints I'm selling with my work experience. If it were as simple as downloading my linkedin/resume.embedded.vcf/dice/glassdoor profile which is fleshed out for the machines to datamine it wouldn't be such a hassle.

But the reason for the brevity is to reduce the page count to 1-2 (1 double-sided) page(s). I've been on both sides of the interview table and you will have those wishing to have a single or at most two page resume so not to just be drowned in a wall of data.

As for validating if who they are meshes with their brochure? Easy... ask them what they document on the resume. For anyone who works as many different technology stacks as we do, the best thing you can do is ask them if they can cut the mustard, then keep stepping the heat up till they get to ghost pepper levels of spiciness. Maybe skip around some to see how well rounded they are...

Nobody knows everything but everyone should have a level they will be able to float with the team without hand holding. Knowing where that level should be your goal and whatever is bonus. At the same time keep it light and conversational and provide the space to discuss and retry in case they're nervous or having a case of stagefright.

And so much of meeting people is that initial vibe and "click" we feel with people.

But people should be fair if their spidey-sense triggers. I consider that a personal thing and I think the etiquette of fairness should overrule any personal feeling or emotion I experience while interviewing someone as feelings are a "me" thing, not a "we" or "us" thing.

Just listen and let them run through the personality/technical questions, drill down when you want to see how deep they know a skill and poke various areas to see if they're rounded out for the role your hiring for.

Rinse and repeat with other interviewer within the loop and discuss when it comes time to vote if they're what the team needs on the island and will be successful. Remember, you need to make sure that the role will do right by providing them a place to make a living and hopefully a place to grow within in as much as you need more monkeys whipping out working code. :)

kincaidDev · 2023-07-03T22:23:01+00:00

This explains a lot, I took some advice from blind to improve my resume and used chatgpt to rephrase my bullet points. I haven't gotten a single callback after switching resume formats. Wonder if people are just tossing it out now because its too good 😆

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