Welcome back, dorks. We’ve processed the messaging habits of over a million people and are about to basically prove that, despite what you might’ve heard from the Obama campaign and organic cereal commercials, racism is alive and well. It would be awesome if other big websites would go out on a limb and release their own race data, too. I can’t imagine they will: multi-million dollar enterprises rarely like to admit that the people generating those millions act like turds. But being poor gives us a certain freedom. To alienate all our users. So there.
When I first started looking at first-contact attempts and who was writing who back, it was immediately obvious that the sender’s race was a huge factor. Here are just a handful of the numbers that illustrate that:
The takeaway here is that although race shouldn’t matter in messaging, it does. A lot.
First of all, how do we know that race shouldn’t matter? Are we just making some after-school-special assumption that “true love is colorblind?” more compatibility usually
means more repliesNo, we’re not: we know race shouldn’t matter to replies because the races all match each other more or less evenly, and reply rate correlates to matching. That is, more compatibility generally means more replies.
On OkCupid you create your own unique matching system, and that means your better matches are people you actually want talk to. Below is a graph showing match percentages vs. reply rates for a random sample of 500,000 people.As you can see, in general, the better you match someone, the more likely you are to reply to a first message from them.
We can see this principle in action when we look at our trusty control, the Zodiac. Here are the match and reply rates side-by-side, with similar rates colored yellow. There’s no real need to inspect the numbers; just observe the similar colors.
- Throughout this post, yellowish colors are short-hand for “neutral” and red and green indicate “strong preference.”
People of the various Zodiac signs match each other all at roughly the average rate, and, as we would expect, they reply to messages similarly. In general, the correlation between match percentage and reply rate means that whenever we compare the match/reply charts for a given breakdown of the population, they should look about the same. However, this, like so many other fine assumptions, totally breaks down when race gets involved:
Again, don’t bother squinting, just check out the colors. We’ll soon look very closely at these tables.
So here’s last week’s compatibility by race table (I explained how we can confidently measure “compatibility” in that post). This is a blow-up of the leftmost table above:
As you can see, the races all match each other roughly evenly: good news. It means all other things being equal, two people, of whatever race, should have the same chance to have a successful relationshp. But now let’s look at the table of how individuals actually reply to each other’s messages. First we’ll examine messages sent by men to women (I know our gay readers are interested in same-sex versions of these tables, there’s a link to them here and at the end of this post):
The numbers on the perimeter of the table are the weighted average rates for each column/row. Here’s what we can know:
- Black women write back the most. Whether it’s due to talkativeness, loneliness, or a sense of plain decency, black women are by far the most likely to respond to a first contact attempt. In many cases, their response rate is one and a half times the average, and, overall, black women reply about a quarter more often that other women.
- White men get more responses. Whatever it is, white males just get more replies from almost every group. We were careful to preselect our data pool so that physical attractiveness (as measured by our site picture-rating utility) was roughly even across all the race/gender slices. For guys, we did likewise with height.
- White women prefer white men to the exclusion of everyone else—and Asian and Hispanic women prefer them even more exclusively. These three types of women only respond well to white men. More significantly, these groups’ reply rates to non-whites is terrible. Asian women write back non-white males at 21.9%, Hispanic women at 22.9%, and white women at 23.0%. It’s here where things get interesting, for white women in particular. If you look at the match-by-race table before this one, the “should-look-like” one, you see that white women have an above-average compatibility with almost every group. Yet they only reply well to guys who look like them. There’s more data on this towards the end of the post.
Let’s see what happens when it’s the women writing the messages to men.
- Men don’t write black women back. Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should. Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies. Essentially every race—including other blacks—singles them out for the cold shoulder.
- White guys respond less overall. The average reply rate of non-white males is 48.1%, while white guys’ is only 40.5%. Basically, they write back about 20% less often. It’s ironic that white guys are worst responders, because as we saw above they in turn get the most replies. That has apparently made them very self-absorbed.
Finally, here are a couple tables that shed further light on our discussion. These are site-wide answers to a couple user-written match questions. They barely need any explanation: one comments on the other, really. Together they shed more light on the theory/practice schizophrenia of people’s racial attitudes.
It’s surely not just OkCupid users that are like this. In fact, it’s any dating site (and indeed any collection of people) would likely exhibit messaging biases similar to what I’ve written up. Any dating site probably
has these biasesAccording to our internal metrics, at least, OkCupid’s users are better-educated, younger, and far more progressive than the norm, so I can imagine that many sites would actually have worse race stats. But like I said at the beginning, we’ll probably never know. See you next week.
(Addendum to original post)
Same-Sex Data for Race vs. Reply Rates
As promised, here are the same-sex versions of last week’s charts and tables. In general, they show that straights and gays share many of the same inclinations, but the prejudices of the latter are perhaps a bit less pronounced. I should say at the top that some of the sample sizes for the various race/gender slices presented here are rather small (for instance, OkCupid doesn’t have many lesbians of Indian descent), and that accounts, I think, for some of the scatter-shot nature of the color tables. Race preferences are not nearly as stark here as they are with the heterosexual data.
See for yourself:
Still, there are a few conclusions we can draw:
- Blacks get fewer responses. We saw this with the straight data, too, and here it’s true of both gay and lesbian senders. Black gay men get over 20% fewer responses than non-blacks, which is about how straight black men fared. Black women, on the other hand, do relatively much better with gays than straights. While they’re still the least replied-to group, the discrepancy is much smaller in the lesbian community.
- Whites respond by far the least to anyone.. Both white lesbians and white gay men write the fewest replies. In fact, across the two charts, whites respond about 15% less often than non-whites, and white gay men show a marked preference for other whites. On the other hand, gay white women don’t have the segregationist tendencies of their straight counterparts; they just dis everyone. Whereas last week we saw that straight white women strongly preferred other whites to the exclusion of other groups, lesbian whites respond to all 9 racial groups roughly evenly, and, in general, the lesbian community seems relatively colorblind. Only Indian lesbians receive a response rate far off the average, and as I said above, the sample size there is limited and the results might be skewed by chance.
- Asian lesbians are in demand, and they’re picky about other races. Gay Asian females are replied to the most, and, among the well-represented groups, they have the most defined racial preferences: they respond very well to other Asians, Whites, Native Americans, and Middle Easterners, but very poorly to the other groups. Latin women also express a clear preference, for Whites and Asians.
- Men prefer Middle Easterners. Gay men and straight men both respond best to Middle Easterners, and the preference is quite dramatic. I’d be interested to hear any theories why this is so.
As we did last week, we can see that all groups think, theoretically, that interracial relationships are acceptable, yet again whites are the least willing to have such a relationship themselves. This time it’s the men, not the women, who prefer most to keep to their own: it’s interesting that both in reply patterns and in their answers to these two match questions, the behavior of white straight women and white gay men are so closely parallel.
To our friends in the gay and lesbian communities: thanks for being patient and waiting for this data. We will do gay-centric articles in the future, I promise. Lately, since we’ve been dealing with complex and data-intensive subjects like race and reply rates, we’ve had to restrict ourselves to straight data in the primary post. We felt that adding a discussion of gay and lesbian trends alongside straight ones would triple the length of an already long and dense post and surely more than triple reader confusion. We will keep looking for ways to present the information you rightly expect; for now, it will be in addenda such as this one.
Just an observation: Perhaps the reason black females respond the most is because they are also ignored the most. When you send out 10 messages and get 1 response, then you’re more likely to answer 9 messages when you receive 10.
Alternatively it could also be that the reason white males ignore most messages is because they already receive an adequate amount of responses to the females they’re sending messages to.
I’m asian male in case you need to know.
A wise man named GLAYSHARD once said :
3) People believe stereotypes associated with “race” and in many cases go out of their way to prove them to be true. Stereotypes are a funny thing- they are based off of a loose observation of a group of people- and do not explain the nature of behavior nor do they explain actions of a whole.
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That’s because stereotypes are kind of correlation. They’re something that people have noticed to be strongly associated with another thing, in this case race. Correlation is not identical to causation (though it CAN be causation sometimes!) and so stereotypes don’t need to explain anything to be useful information.Btw race is real. Just thought i’d let you know that not everyone subscribes to your the half digested pablum you’ve been fed in a few sociology and postolonial theory classes.
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So they are inherently wrong! Get that- they are wrong! When people say or think race- they bring up stereotypes and use them as a guide to explain the behavior of an entire group of people. Most important note of stereotypes is how they do not stick to white people.
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Poor uncultured, untraveled, provincial american. Whites are stereotyped too (by non whites) and those stereotypes can be quite accurate.
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No one goes crying to the hills cus white people moved in next to them,
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One would think no one moves away because, in general, people haven’t noticed quality of life going drmatically downhill once generic whites move into a neighborhood. Basically, generic whites don’t have a neighborhood wreaker stereotype associated with them. I wonder why ? Maybe because generic whites rarely wreck neighborhoods, don’t you think ? Too hard for you. Oh well, sorry.
Btw, do you think middle class black people would be happy to learn that trailer trash whites were soon to move in great numbers to their neighborhood ? they wouldnt be happy. Why ? Could it be because of the * totally accurate stereotype * about trailer park whites being a source of trouble ?
In any case, there are very good reasons people don’t generally fear generic, non trailer trash whites moving in.
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No one believes that white people eat a type of food and then go out of their way to market it to them.
So what you mean is that black people don’t really like fried chicken but have been convinced by KFC to eat it. They hve been stereotyped threatened into eating fried chicken ! Dayum you good.
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This is incredibly hilarious
Next you’ll tell us that east-asians are “stereotype threatened” into eating noodles because, you know, they dont really like that stuff here or back home in asia.
I suppose next you’ll tell us that whites stereotype blacks as liking urban music and then force market it to them, forcing them to like it more than anyone else.
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No one believes that white “race” is stupid, prone to irrational violence. You’ll never hear anyone say a white person is a credit to their race.
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Travel a bit and speak to some non-whites and non-blacks. I don’t mean your fellow post colonial studies classmates by the way.
I can easily imagine some east-asians or indians saying something like that about white people. In fact, i can easily imagine west-indian people saying something like that.
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they believe that they are dating or marrying someone who is bellow their class and or dating into some stereotype “Asians are smart- Asian women are so obedient.”
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man asians must really really hate people thinking that they’re smart. What a lousy thing to be labeled with, isnt it ?
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5) Racism is wrong, stereotypes are wrong and believing in them makes you stupid and weak.
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Damn. It’s sad to think that you’re probably a university student.
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People are people no matter what. Falling into a belief system biased on either hate, or imaginary expectations of a group of people becasue of the color of their skin makes your understanding of the world weak and leaves you as a person open to manipulation of other people.
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My own relatively cosmopolitan life has told me that stereotypes are often based on a kernel of truth. Do you realize that there are such things as cultural differences between people ? never even mind race that you laughably dismiss.
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Lastly, you cannot speak of racism with out understanding where it comes from, or the history surrounding it.
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in other words, you can’t think or reason about racism unless you subscribe to his postcolonial studies idiocy because, you know, no one else than his like minded could have anything of note to say about race, identity, etc. LOL
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The “N” word carries with it a negative stigma becasue of the history of “black” oppression. The word Cracker does not because black people did not own a huge plantations filled with white slaves. Dont tolerate racist bias anywhere. Its immoral and wrong.
UN definition of racism:
Racism is the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.[1] In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment. Racial discrimination typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, although anyone may be discriminated against on an ethnic or cultural basis, independently of their somatic differences.
Just in case anyone wanted to know if preferences were racism, since it is used to define racism-maybe the idiots will stop being idiots.
Ok big daddy is stereotyping black women. Are you saying that Black women are typically smokers, only have an associates degree (or less) or with children and/or who are overweight?
Let me tell you about Black women. They make up 75% of the bachelor’s degrees of Black people, they have the highest enrollment increase in college level education in the last 10 years, there are also less Black women with children than White women. Black women are less likely to smoke than White women. 4 out of 5 Black women are overweight AND 4 out of 5 White women are overweight.
Don’t be stupid when there is google. And don’t be racist with an excuse….Black women are also least likely to date outside their race, by choice (98 percent chose to NEVER date outside their race). So the women who are hooking up with you are probably Nigerian sex scam artists, because Black women would NEVER try to date you.
thought i would repose what Glayshard posted since this sneaky anthrasite conveniently leave out some parts
yeah this chart shows things as a minority i already knew. White men are considered to be the most desirable and black women are the least. The funny thing is, how many- mostly white people- feel the need to defend racism as a social construct, a part of their culture, that wont go away or should generally be accepted. This of course is due to the fact they are on top(Whites)- and not being the ones who are rejected.(or at least, being rejected by a group they wanted to a part of or care about) Here are some points of harsh reality for you:
1) Yes! This shows racism, as people are choosing mates on the premise of so called race. That in some way, one race is better then the other. This is not a mere preference, its racism. Its not biological, its a behavior your taught and its wrong. So called “Race preference” Is a form of racism. You may not be burning crosses, but you are stating that one race is better then the other and its racist.
2) The only reason why anyone would bring up races as a form of comparison is to state one is above the other. That is why the construct of “race” exists. We are all human beings, there is no “race” other then the human race. We have cultures perhaps- but there have been many occasions where people marry outside their cultures for different reasons,
3) People believe stereotypes associated with “race” and in many cases go out of their way to prove them to be true. Stereotypes are a funny thing- they are based off of a loose observation of a group of people- and do not explain the nature of behavior nor do they explain actions of a whole. So they are inherently wrong! Get that- they are wrong! When people say or think race- they bring up stereotypes and use them as a guide to explain the behavior of an entire group of people. Most important note of stereotypes is how they do not stick to white people. They may have a few cultural stereotypes dealing with being Italian or Irish, but as a whole they dont have any that are as negative as a racial stereo type. No one goes crying to the hills cus white people moved in next to them, No one believes that white people eat a type of food and then go out of their way to market it to them. No one believes that white “race” is stupid, prone to irrational violence. You’ll never hear anyone say a white person is a credit to their race.
4)As far as the United States is concerned, race is used as a form of cast system. Minorities tend to feel if they are dating, or marring a white person, they are either going up on the economic latter or they dating someone who is better then a minority. And in other cases they dont want to date out side of their race to prove that they have some form of racial pride. When white people go out of their race they believe that they are dating or marrying someone who is bellow their class and or dating into some stereotype “Asians are smart- Asian women are so obedient.”
5) Racism is wrong, stereotypes are wrong and believing in them makes you stupid and weak. People are people no matter what. Falling into a belief system biased on either hate, or imaginary expectations of a group of people becasue of the color of their skin makes your understanding of the world weak and leaves you as a person open to manipulation of other people.
Lastly, you cannot speak of racism with out understanding where it comes from, or the history surrounding it. The “N” word carries with it a negative stigma becasue of the history of “black” oppression. The word Cracker does not because black people did not own a huge plantations filled with white slaves. Dont tolerate racist bias anywhere. Its immoral and wrong.
Of course race is an issue when looking for a partner. NO KIDDING! Talk about contemptible unawareness; the person that wrote this is obviously mentally challenged. The Vast majority of people Red, yellow, black, or white tend to prefer someone from their own ethnic background. It’s not racism, it is nature.
this really does bug me, but as you guys stated, this isn’t really anything we didn’t already know. It IS nice to see it on paper (on my computer screen?), however. I hate being white and seeing that practically 50% of us said we’d strongly prefer to date white people. I could care less and have written probably every race possible on this site since joining.
Unfortunately, as far as serious dating is concerned, i have almost ALWAYS dated white women. This is due to both their own racism of just wanting to date white guys…and the racism of other races I flirt with. I notice girls of other races never stay interested in me for as long, and that their previous and next boyfriends are almost always of the same race they are (be it mexican, indian, black, etc…). It really is a shame.
I wish posting the numbers would somehow change things, but i DO take a bit of comfort in knowing these numbers would’ve been horrifyingly worse say 30 years ago.
@ Boston Guy
You rock!
SOME DUDE, damn it you found me out !
I just thought that no one would notice that glayshard posted 24 comments before me. I also figured that I’d select a few of his points and not answer every single point glayshard made. I guess i thought that i could get away with something pretty common in discussion threads. But you found me out, some dude ! You must be a very smart guy with a graduate degree in, err , public policy , sociology or education since you’re so smart.
I’m gonna have to be more sneaky next time and post maybe..30 comments after glayshard and maybe..not tell anyone that I’m responding to glayshard’s comments.
To anthracite,
let me start my rebuttal with a quote
“The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.”
– Bertrand Russell-
I always wondered, why those who know so little about the world- feel the need to advertise their ignorance. From what i can tell from your….reply, it speaks loudly of your own limitations, both educational and social. That perhaps you indeed embrace stereotypes becasue it allows you to stop thinking, delving any deeper, and of course find any hint of real truth. However, unlike you i find no further need to fill the body of my reply with cheap insults and hot glowing ignorance. As i did find reading your hand cut, reply difficult to stomach- i will do my best to rebuttal this – given the fact its an online forum.
You said in support of stereotypes “That’s because stereotypes are kind of correlation. They’re something that people have noticed to be strongly associated with another thing, in this case race. Correlation is not identical to causation (though it CAN be causation sometimes!) and so stereotypes don’t need to explain anything to be useful information.”
Useful in what way? You really didn’t really explain anything. That’s just you running around in the circles of your own theory. So what, a stereotype is a type of correlation- doesn’t make them true. Few stereotypes are biased on any real truth. And as science is concerned psychological, biological, historical or other wise- people are the sum of their surroundings rather than there genes. Furthermore, There is no gene that says that if you have any African heritage you will love KFC, there is no gene that says if you’re Mexican you will love to work low paying jobs. Thats why stereotypes don’t work- its a lie. You state later that “Btw race is real.” In what way? Race is nothing more then the color of your skin, its not your heritage, it speaks nothing of how someone grew up, what they had to deal with, what virtues or vices they have. There is more difference in breeds of dogs then so called “Race” of men. To assume that a stereotype is in fact “truth” is to embrace an ignorance that says the color of your skin makes you act a certain way, When there is no science, no fact, nothing to support this. Dont confuse “race” for culture, dont confuse “race” for social economics, and dont confuse stereotypes as fact.
I rather not embarrass you by giving out a long detailed reply on how that comment about KFC was racist. Ill just say that it is, and if you need more enlightenment on the matter im sure someone else can aid you in your quest. However i will point out that i am an American, and i dare for you to find any other country that has greater diversity and has such a great influence in the world.(positive or negative) You know nothing about me- so keep the argument about the subject at hand.
As for stereotypes with White people- other then things dealing with nationality- there are no mass stereotypes that support white people being: Mass murderers, causes of disease, envious of success, lairs, thieves of: land, art, culture, and technology. Things that through out history the “white race” has done. No stereotype of the whole “white race” is confirmed off the actions of Adolf Hitler, the Spanish inquisition, The Trail of Tears, American Slavery- I could go on and on and on. The point i am trying to make is as a significant whole, the “white race” is not held accountable for their history. White people have no significant hurtful stereotypes created to hinder them- for the most part stereotypes are created by them. White people have the privilege of being seen as an individual before a stereotype. (Re-read that last sentence if you have to, as it is the point im making here!) And thats how it should be for all people. Humans are humans, and there is nothing that what i stated before about “white people” you cant find in another culture doing it to another culture buy another “race”. We all have idiots, fools, poor, weak, gluttons and the evil, but that should not be turned into a statement for all those who may simply look like that person.
Thats the thing for so called “human races”. There are none, we just have people of different shades and hues, different cultural backgrounds, different histories. But “race” does not subscribe to us as individuals, and this is why it is wrong.
You cannot create some level of bias based on skin color and expect for it to be right- even if your trying to use it for dating preferences.
(As for what ever ramblings you have said- i choose to ignore them, as they are insulting and make no real point.)
I’m just tired of all these data reports..as a Black women, funny I never had a problem getting a date from any race (Asian not included). I could sit here and make general sterotype comments about men (especially black) but I won’t….everyone love who you want but definitely be with who you want…I personally prefer white and they seem to have no problem with me…getting married Spring next year!!
Love to all…
It’s all fucked up. But the good news is that the technology in the form of social networking has disrupted the social fabric. It has challenged the deep seated beliefs. Hopefully, it will smooth out the creases in time. It would be very interesting to see the age distribution here. I have a feeling that younger generation is increasingly becoming color blind. But we need the data to support that.
RACISM IS DEAD as we know it.
Of course race is an issue in responding to a post. As a mixed raced man of color, who is well educated BTW, I’ve checked out numerous profiles of women of all races and notice that I have not received ANY reply messages from Asian or White women.
It is not secret that Asian women exclusively prefer white males even to the exclusive of Asian males. Asians have an identity issues which stem from post colonial/assimilation issues. THAT IS ANOTHER TALK SHOW.
White or European Americans have always and continue to have preferences for their own based on historical and cultural “God” complexes and a host of other issues. AGAIN, THAT IS ANOTHER TALK SHOW.
This is not to say that anyone is bad or a stone “racist” person ala the KKK or Aryan Nation. I THINK PEOPLE ARE INTERPRETING THIS.
What we simply need to recognize is that the “definition” or “racism” is broad and needs to interpreted in “context” of the “situation.”
In this situation, online dating OK Cupid’s finding show that race is an issue, people have “racial preferences” and that preference is in effect a part of being a person in a society that is racist. It is a simply fact that people will behave in a “racist” manner in choosing whom to reply to. That’s all.
However, I should note that studies show that most people do marry or find common ground with those of similar class and lifestyle first beyond class. So, please keep an open mind and reply if the person seems to share those things.
I think we should look at this as an “TEACHABLE MOMENT” not to be glib.
Peace and Love to Humanity
Very interesting, but now I’m curious about classism and sexism.
Are men more likely to respond than women? Is there a traditional gender role at work– men initiate more, women act as “gatekeeper”?
Also, how does income or perception of income correlate to likelihood of a response?
Body type? Photo quality? Age difference?
My appetite for more stats is insatiable– get crunchin’!
But, also, thank you very much for “alienating” us all — we probably deserved it
How much would we have to pay you to not? 
“Our greatest strength as a human race is our ability to acknowledge our differences, our greatest weakness is our failure to embrace them.”
– Judith Henderson
Race is real, but it is a human created grouping of people based on physical characteristics, which is NOT always accurate. Race is not the cause of behavior or culture, even though one might be prevalent in a racial category. To defend sterotyping is to defend ignorance and deny a persons idividuality.
Furthermore, by limiting yourself based on racial preferences, you also limit your chances of successfully finding a copatible mate. If it were used when hiring an employee, one might not hire an efficient incredibly talented black man for stereotyping him as lazy, and instead hire a lazy and detached asian, after stereotyping him as incredibly efficient and smart, in which case stereotypes can hurt everyone.
I am a black female and I am on here. I will say I am fairly open-minded. I have dated all types of men, but I am mostly attracted to those who share similar interests as myself.
This post was interesting. Do any men on here enjoy dating a woman for that matter?
I consider myself a beautiful woman, but I hardly get any responses. Tsk tsk. Many will look and not even respond. I do not consider myself intimidating at all. I guess beauty is within the eye of the beholder. I know what I want out of Life and I am doing whatever I can to achieve that.
I honestly feel that black women are shunned and that we have to put ourselves out there more (not sexually, but personality wise) in order for someone to noice us and it really irks me.
this is a ridiculous perspective, and I’m not going to write a lot telling you why. There is nothing racist about not being attracted to someone who is a race you are not attracted to. It doesn’t mean you hate them or think poorly of them, it just means you are not attracted to them. I think you (blog writer) make a sweeping statement with no real argument besides finger pointing and calling people ‘racists’.
“there are also less Black women with children than White women.”
Numerically or percentage-wise? And are we talking single mothers or married, or what? Because I’m thinking that percentage-wise, of course more white women would have kids — the population of white women is about 5 times larger! But I wouldn’t be surprised if a larger percentage of black women were/are single mothers (and therefore still “in play” when it comes to dating) than white women, meaning that they’re disproportionately represented amongst single mothers despite their small population size relative to white women.
Oops, I meant “numerically, of course more white women would have kids”
Racism.
Was. Is. Will Always Be. Period.
psst:its in our nature!
@Jessie- i agree that numerically white women have more kids but percentage-wise black women probably have more kids out of wedlock. Nevertheless i think there is a context for everything. i think Its hard to have stable solid families when a people have suffered so much. On this topic though- I have looked at some dating sites and what shocks me most is that non black people will describe their preferred potential partner as any race except black- is it necessary to be so brutally discriminatory against one group of people? I think the world is full of mediocre human beings if they cannot see beyond skin tone.
anthracite said: “Do you realize that there are such things as cultural differences between people ? never even mind race that you laughably dismiss.”
I will go so far as to say that all racial stereotypes are more properly cultural stereotypes, and that most contemporary problems of racism come about because skin color is not a sufficient indicator of culture.
I think a lot of this has to do with assimilation. People want to be part of the predominant group, and across all American dating sites, white people represent the status quo. The vast majority of people subconsciously want to tend toward the status quo, regardless of what they may outwardly say, or whatever minor aspect of themselves they keep strictly nonconformist.
I challenge dating sites in Asia to release this sort of data. But then again, how many Caucasians or Africans live in Asia? In countries where there is a significant international population, such as Singapore, white people, particularly women, have complained about how it is hard it is to find a date. Are they being shunned as outsiders before any other characteristic is evaluated?
Only in America do we have such a varied melting pot. While the assimilation aspect is not the only factor, it is reasonable to assume it is the largest factor.
The expectancy to reply algorithm needs tweaking! =O
Any racial group, or ANY group really, in society will tend to reply less. Didn’t the OkStaff notice that, despite being technically different graphs, if you flip and rotate the male/female send/reply charts, you find they are nearly perfect reciprocals of eachother!
It could be racism, sure … or it could be personal preference. (did you make similar tables about blondes, different eye colors, and height?) It’s a fair bet that, at some point the social dynamics between specific groups became polarized: the problem is that none of those tells you if, for example, black girls reach out more because they get fewer replies, or get fewer replies because they reach out more.
Notwithstanding what may actually be the case, in both complex physical, and social, systems, the static system is the LEAST stable. Variations in the system are what keep it functioning. A complex system must explore, even reach, both extremes before having any means with which to maintain a center that will never be well defined. The best way to test this? Watch those charts VERY closely over time … a long time. If you wait long enough, because we have a genetic drive to seek foreigners, I think you’ll find these patters to be slowly reversing … over and over- cyclic. =)
As for racism, ooooohhh it’s alive and well … but don’t ask me to explain that. I’m afraid I never understood why it existed. I may have my preferences, like everyone else, but I’ve met so many AMAZING people of EVERY race … I just don’t understand why anyone would single that race out with so much to offer. That’s just me though.
-Adrian (aka BoundaryLayer)
Objective data is fine. You may want to avoid comments like “According to our internal metrics, at least, OkCupid’s users are better-educated, younger, and far more progressive than the norm, so I can imagine that many sites would actually have worse race stats.” It is unwise to equate progressive with greater racial tolerance. White people slamming white people seems to be a popular way of proving colorblindness, yet they show their own racial prejudice against that segment. It is unwise to equate age with negative race relations. That is discriminating based on age with no other backing data, which is as detrimental to society as actual racism. It is unwise to equate higher education with positive race relations; historical persecution of many races, including white Europeans by Mesopotamian and North African conquerors, was initiated by the elite classes that saw financial benefits in such moves.
Also, could it be possible that white men reply to Middle Eastern women for a reason other than a forbidden fetish? Perhaps they have similar interests, or this group is more attractive as a whole on this site? I have noticed that the most attractive, and, therefore, most sought people do not want their photos rated. Perhaps that skewed the data results. Again, I appreciate the effort, but it is dangerous to mix objective data with subjective jabs. I know it was for entertainment, but it came across as another bashing of white guys, which is probably your largest group on the site. We already have network sit-com’s for that purpose.
Danielle – you are completely right about your assessment of black women. As a white woman I have not only been thoroughly disappointed in my peers, I have also respected and looked up to black women who are educated and stand up for themselves. I think a big part of why white men don’t reply to black women (or white women for that matter) on OKcupid is because they are intimidated. So black women – keep on doing what you do, white women – get a clue and stop being ignorant, and white men – grow some balls!
Don’t forget that these data are taken from okcupid.com’s users – the playing field may not be even.
Otherwise I think this is a very complete and impressive report. Good job!
You are still using Race to talk about issues? So where does black end and white begin? Where does white end and Asian begin? What if one parent is black and the other asian?
Race is dated.
This has the same results a the Columbia university one.
Asian guys are screwed.
Asian women love white men!!! so who ever said people prefer to date their own race don’t know Asian women.
Black women are also screwed cause Black guys love White girls and Asian girls.
Like most non-ignorant people, I didn’t need all these pretty, colorful charts to tell me people are extremely selective when it comes to dating and race. I experience it in my daily life. Hell, I too have my racial preferences when in pursuit of a mate. But GOD, these numbers are staggering!! And I’m loving every minute of it! I get this, “see, I knew it!” feeling.
And of course other dating sites won’t publish their data. eHarmony and Match would be go bankrupt tomorrow if their clients found out today they only have a 2% chance (or whatever) of finding a mate.
My take:
A couple of people are hitting on the important truth: Race is just a cruel ephemeral joke, while culture is the real product that forces one’s hand.
And we’re talking about OKCupid here which has a culture of it’s own and that culture is very “white”. While I have no figures, it’s safe to assume that it has more white subscribers than any other race. This is primarily because the people who took to it and shaped it early on have “white” interests: Indie/alt/geek culture and medieval inspired fantasy culture being two of the biggies. So the bigger the player in such an arena, the more magnetism that person will have amongst his or her peers. Everyone wants to be like Mike. The cultural bias is strong. The racial bias matters less except that the further away from the epicenter of the OKC meme swirl one APPEARS to be (‘appears’ as in ‘looks like’, as in white or not), the fewer points one can trade on.
In my experience, I’ve gotten responses (hit on, checked out, etc.) from black and non black women. Primarily from white women (I attribute that to the size of the online population). This is true on OKC, other dating sites and life. I respond to them all according to non-racial criteria (zodiac, age, BMI index, humor, lack of medieval/sci-fi references-in no particular order). However, more than half the time they are looking for someone who performs culturally as “black” (which just ain’t me, sorry.). And likewise, black women are often looking for the same. But the more black women, or anyone else for that matter, identify with alt culture (OKC subscribers?) the more likely she is to assume that they can only be understood and appreciated by someone of that culture (i.e.: a white person)and not be interested in dating someone perceived as The Other (lol!). It sucks, I hope it changes before I die, but that’s the way it’s been, IMHO.
Me, I’m an Equal Opportunity Employer.
There’s way more that I could say about this, but I’m saving it for my tombstone.
Kate @ 1:04am, heterosexual males don’t want strong, independent women which are two reasons why black women are so undesirable. Heterosexuals males want pleasant and docile women.
Ok big daddy is stereotyping black women. Are you saying that Black women are typically smokers, only have an associates degree (or less) or with children and/or who are overweight?
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More black women go to college than black men. This is a gender comparison, not a race comparison.
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There are also less black women than white women. So it stands to reason there would be less black women with children.
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Cigarette advertisements are targeted at a specific demographic — white people.
“This is a gender comparison, not a race comparison.”
Yeah, that. When evaluating black women for relationship purposes, a heterosexual guy or lesbian woman is going to compare them to other races of women, not black guys.
“You are still using Race to talk about issues? So where does black end and white begin? Where does white end and Asian begin? What if one parent is black and the other asian?
Race is dated.”
Um, apparently, people can still tell well enough to:
1) Identify themselves and others with one racial group or more
and
2) Make decisions related to social proximity from residence to marriage partially based on it.
Your ideal world does not exist today, and closing your eyes and ears to reality, and emphatically insisting that others do the same will not make it magically appear.
“However, more than half the time they are looking for someone who performs culturally as “black” (which just ain’t me, sorry.)”
Ah, this… this is indeed a cruel joke of sorts. The outsiders who are open to dating your (rhetorical “your”) group may be open because of a strong identification with the culture that your group is widely associated with, but the group members that are most open to the prospect of dating outsiders are more likely to be more loosely affiliated than average with the culture that their group is associated with. So… the Abercrombie-wearing black chicks end up attracting a litany of Paul Wall-types, (example, ya’ll… only an example) and both groups are perpetually unhappy with the outcome unless the attraction/affinity is more physical than cultural.
“Heterosexuals males want pleasant and docile women”
And black women are the only group of women who aren’t pleasant and docile?
“Black women are also screwed cause Black guys love White girls and Asian girls.”
But black guys are screwed, too, because white girls and Asian girls don’t look like they love them back all that much or often. Black women don’t look all that interested in black men here, either. Black guys receive the lowest level of responses that black females give out in a grid where black females respond to damn near everybody, but black males still receive higher responses from them than they do from any other group of women. Tis’ a bittersweet relationship indeed — on this site, anyway.
In the book Freakonomics it was proven that *income* was a large factor in a woman’s response to an ad, not necessarily race. When a minority male’s income increased, they become more attractive mates. So, it’s not that women are “racist”. They simply will trade racial differences for greater resources.
What’s disappointing is that I was expressing these sort of suspicions to people I know, in my limited dating experience. They claimed I was wrong when really I was right.
I think it’s possible to give too much weight to these findings. That’s because when we look at these results we are assuming that people DECIDED whether they were interested in the person sending the message.
But if these results prove anything it is that ATTRACTION ISN’T A CHOICE. This has been the central message that one of the top experts on women and dating has been giving men for the last decade or so. I hadn’t really believed it until now.
People don’t choose to be attracted to whites or asians or blacks — or to be attracted to members of the same sex or members of the opposite sex. Attraction is something deeply programmed into us by genetics, by whether our moms breast fed us (or so I’m told), and by images of beauty in our society.
If white males tend to get a higher proportion of replies than their black counterparts, then that does not mean that the women in question are racists, unless the word is given unusual meaning. Yes, the white males get more replies, but it is likely because the women in question find them to be more attractive.
Saying that being black causes men not to receive replies is oversimplifying it because whether a woman finds a man attractive determines whether she replies, and like it or not, race is part of attractiveness. It’s right there on your face along with all the pimples, dimples, glasses, big noses (hopefully just 1) and facial features you might have.
This study therefore says more about the part that race plays in the conceptions of attractiveness in our society than about racism by individuals. Is it bad that our culture privileges the majority group as being more attractive? Maybe.
But what about girls with freckles? Personally, I think freckles are hot, but we never see people with freckles on fashion magazine covers (even though they are usually white). I bet if we asked people “do you have freckles” and complied the results we’d see that the freckeld get fewer replies than other whites. So is it immoral that freckled people are not featured more heavily on magazine covers? What about people who have waists larger than 22 inches around? Or who wear glasses? If they are less attractive because of society’s privileging of skinny people with good vision, is that discriminatory?
Yes, our culture privileges white people as attractive. But there really nothing we could do, even if we decided it was wrong.
Maybe if we got rid of ALL the pictures on this site and enforced burkas for men and women, people would choose mates without regard to physical appearance. Until that happens, people who are better looking (or at least to their potential mate) are going to do better than those who aren’t attractive and our culture is going to determine what “attractive” means.
Frankly, I’m not shocked at all by the results from either gay or straight subscribers on these grids. As for the reasons why, I’m pretty much fully in agreement with glayshard and what some others have said about race in America and race as a factor on dating sites. For the record, it’s not just on OKCupid that it is like this. I’m also not shocked by many people on here who want to pretend that race isn’t a factor or say things like “race is outdated” but the very sad truth is that it is still very much in style, for gays and straights.
I’d especially like to know why there isn’t such a strong presence of minorities interacially-dating one another. I would like to see a mix of Latino and Middle Easter,. Black and Indian, etc.
Some may say this overall issue is about “preference” but I challenge them to ask themselves, “Why?” How can one exclude an entire race or culture, without knowing or considering the possibility that there might be any number of individuals within that group of people that they may find to be attractive and/or share similar interests? Also, one could look at it as though those who are coveted or in demand can say preference, because they are not the ones being excluded. Or, it could be out of social standing?
Ending racism is not becoming colorblind. In fact, that approach is akin to shoving the problem under the desk. Instead, I think we should work to be more color conscious and recognize what people of different ethnic backgrounds have to offer one another. However, I will commend the site moderators for being so bold and attentive as to publish something like this to begin opening dialogue about the matter.
According to wikipedia under the “Human Genome Project”
“All human races are 99.99 % alike, so racial differences are genetically insignificant”
And this is science people- you cant fight science.
So yes- race is all in your head- other then difference in physical appearance. We may have cultures, but there is no justified separation of “human races”. Classification of human “race” does not come from nature, rather then poor human history. Its something your taught! This is why its not a matter of preference, its a matter of culture and what you were raised up to believe as being attractive. This is why “racial preference” is inheritly racist,
This is such an interesting topic, one that’s not even broached on other dating/social communities! Even though my profile has been visited many times by white women, but they will not write me back when I thank them for viewing it, or even say hello to them!
THEREFORE , I HAVE TO CONCLUDE CATEGORICALLY THAT MY SKIN COLOR IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE WITH THESE WOMEN THAT MAKES THEM IGNORE ALL MY POSTS! THEY SEE MY SKIN COLOR AND IMMEDIATELY ASSOCIATE ME WITH ANY OTHER BLACK PERSON THAT’S EVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG IN HISTORY!
AND, IT SEEMS I CAN’T FIND A BLACK WOMAN BECAUSE MANY OF THEM ARE BREAKING THEIR NECKS JUMPING OVER ME SO THEY CAN THROW THEMSELVES INTO A WHITE BOY’S ARMS, EVEN IF HE’S UNEDUCATED AND EXCEEDINGLY MEDIOCRE!
BUT, LIKE GUCCI MANE SAID IN ANOTHER POST, THE WHITE WOMEN HERE CAN CONTINUE TO IGNORE ME; I’M NOT GOING TO LOSE ANY SLEEP OVER IT!
This is such an interesting topic, one that’s not even broached on other dating/social communities! Even though my profile has been visited many times by white women, they will not write me back when I thank them for viewing it, or even say hello to them simply because they’re racist! And since that’s the case, I can’t be worried about it – I’ll just stop wasting my time on these sites, no problem.
THEREFORE , I HAVE TO CONCLUDE CATEGORICALLY THAT MY SKIN COLOR IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE WITH THESE WOMEN THAT MAKES THEM IGNORE ALL MY POSTS! THEY SEE MY SKIN COLOR AND IMMEDIATELY ASSOCIATE ME WITH ANY OTHER BLACK PERSON THAT’S EVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG IN HISTORY!
AND, IT SEEMS I CAN’T FIND A BLACK WOMAN BECAUSE MANY OF THEM ARE BREAKING THEIR NECKS JUMPING OVER ME SO THEY CAN THROW THEMSELVES INTO A WHITE BOY’S ARMS, EVEN IF HE’S UNEDUCATED AND EXCEEDINGLY MEDIOCRE!
BUT, LIKE GUCCI MANE SAID IN ANOTHER POST, THE WHITE WOMEN HERE CAN CONTINUE TO IGNORE ME; I’M NOT GOING TO LOSE ANY SLEEP OVER IT!
I just want to say that I am a white woman that will only date black men. I am NOT by any means racist against white men. It’s not a penis size issue either like some white men need to try to throw out there. I have more in common with black men, I love their culture, I love the contrast of their skin to mine. I believe that love truly is colorblind but to get to the point of falling in love, there has to be attraction and chemistry. I find that attraction and chemistry for me is more so with a black man.
I hope minority don’t take this study serious. I notice every once in a while, white people would post “studies” to highlight their racial superiority over others.
It is like when whites make up studies that highlight their positive while negating the minority.
This is just another propaganda by whites and their racist institution. What I find surprising is that any non-white people would go on white dating sites like OKC. Come on people, there are other sites that are catered to you.
Stop going to movies that only show white people. I think white people are disgusting people. They really do lack character and depth that is why they suck so bad.
As much as the media try to brainwash you into think white people are better, they are NOT. They hiding behind their numbers. Once they go under 50%, the hispanic is going to take over, whites will have hell to pay. LOL.
The fact that most of the replies ahead of me are novel length tells me something. People are angry, embarressed,guilty or defensive.
I can not pretend to know the reasons why the data is way it is.
I have niether the time or inclination to determine that.
I would much rather be excluded in a dating relationship because of my race
rather than my personality. My race is of mixed origin…I’m French Caribean/Hispanic and both of African decent…thats ‘my’ heritege.
At least I’m not an unpleasant jerk!
I date who I like and respect, I assume they like and respect me as well.
A shallow superficial person is the same on the inside as any other….shallow superficial person no matter what covering you drape over it.
I’m well traveled, well educated, well compensated and refuse to have my self importance to be determined by whether or not someone responds to
a message.
Let me know when you get the bottom of this pit….I’ll toss down some rope.
well, nothing new to me. I could have guesstimated every single result here. Every single one to the T. I just find it shitty as an asian male that indian women don’t like us…I like’em the most=(
I thought everyone knew that all races of women really only liked white men?
In my opinion, having a preference has nothing to do with racism. Personally, I prefer to date women. Does that preference prove that I think that I am superior to other males and therefore not attracted to them? I do not think so.
I personally prefer white women. I have dated women of many different cultural and religious back grounds. I have learned that white women, in my case, are more like me and therefore a more logical choice. That does not mean that I will end friendships with the non-white people I have befriended. Nor does it mean that I feel superior to any other people.
I’m surprised that the owners of OkCupid were such toolbags as to call everyone racists for simply having preferences. Fuck you, bitches. If your site wasn’t so good otherwise, I’d leave it.
I’d be interested to know a bit more about received message density in relation to these data points.
White men and women appear to have low response rates, but is that due to them receiving more messages on average? A person who receives three messages a month is going to be a lot more likely to reply than a person who receives three messages an hour.
I’m not saying that there wouldn’t still be a bias, I’d just like to see how it looks normalised for number of messages received. For example, maybe middle eastern women are more likely to send messages to white guys who don’t receive many messages and that’s the reason for that outlier.
Disclaimer: I’m a white male using OKCupid who gets very few messages and therefore has plenty of time to read and reply to any messages that do come in (and I do).
Sometimes I wonder if this site is even going to work. Most of the women(of all races) have their hearts set out on someone else. I have actually thought about looking outside of the Southeast, and if money and distance weren’t an issue, I would have already done this. I have been on this site since January 2006 and it hasn’t worked for me. Personally it tells me that race in combination with other factors, such as effeminacy and nerdy qualities can be an issue. I don’t think it is just race alone. I think some women who aren’t black(not all, but there are some out there like that) who are looking for the “stereotypical” black men, To me, that is just creepy, I am not steretypical. I am nerdy and slightly effeminate. I am perfectly secure with that. This is what I think. I think some women are put off by that from a black male. I know not all women(of any race) are like that. What gets me is that the womrn who behave as such are all too visible.
This is actually quite sad to see is the fact black people are at the bottom of the totem pole, yet they response to each other less. I think this is quite sad and pathetic. When I was younger I use to be open to date other race of women(I am 20 by the way, but when I was like 14-18 around) now I have just said w/e I will stick to my own race, if I were to fall in love with a girl of another race so be it but I sure will not break my neck trying to be with them. Ii is not racist to prefer your own race but what I am sick of is how black people try to appeal to other race, while they should really not care.
You see it in a music videos, in a black R&B video you see women of all races but when do you ever see a a white music video with a black women or black men as a love interest.. Imagine if someone like taylor swift had a black man as her love interest in a video. The sky would be falling. I just feel that successful black men and women should start embracing each other, have successful black families and make it repeat process, I wont sugarcoat it we need that here in the U.S. I agree with what GucciMang says.