Comments on: About OkTrends http://blog.okcupid.com The Official Blog of OkCupid.com Wed, 24 Sep 2014 13:49:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.7 By: merteuil http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34559 Tue, 24 May 2011 18:28:25 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34559 Thanks OkTrends – these two articles on race and message reply rates have elegantly and clearly laid out what has been going on for decades- people, regardless of their education, class, and political leanings, often just play concentration/matching when it comes to dating and sex…but it goes well beyond that.

Particularly regarding the LGBT data, and the numerous examples of people of color replying more to WHITE users than others of their own ethnic background, we see that it isn’t just the interracial marriage factor – LGBT folks, particularly gay/bi males, strongly prefer white dudes OVER their own ethnic backgrounds. What’s going on here? In the U.S., something about being socialized/sexualized as a gay male makes you fit this mold. As a mixed black/white man of color, I unfortunately have been both affected by this (though I’m no supermodel, I’ve had a VERY low response rate from white men/other non-black men of color) and fall within the ugly statistics on the chart – many of my ex boyfriends have been white – and the last middle eastern! :)

The big question to me here is, what can we DO about this? People relate to their attractions and sexual/dating preferences as these “natural”, fundamental parts of themselves, yet the example of things like Asian gay men replying to white men 8% more often than to other Asian men shows that this is ALL socially constructed. No one wants to talk about this, and are usually even less inclined to examine their own feelings about race/dating – we don’t have to extend our beliefs about racial equality to ACTUALLY connecting with people of other races, do we?

P.S. My two cents on the gay middle-eastern trend that is off the charts – there are a few angles to this. First, many middle eastern men can sometimes pass/identify as white themselves, so there’s a lot of (superficial) cultural and identity-based appeal that links them to white men. BUT, they also have the added advantage of being seen as “exotic” by many men, with anything from beautiful eyes to penis size mythology to other middle eastern fantasies factoring in here. Finally, I think that many people in the U.S. are experiencing a shift in our national identity as it relates to thinking of people from the Middle East – with the “war on terror” looming over much of my generation since high school, we’ve been taught to fear and obsess on people from the middle east – and sometimes, this kind of foreign, exotic appeal becomes erotic in its own way. Look at the intensity and celebration following Bin Laden’s death as an example of how much we have vested in our notions of the middle east – how many of those people chanting and celebrating after his death even knew where he came from?

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By: M.S http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34492 Fri, 20 May 2011 12:27:56 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34492 Among whites, bisexual males least stick to their own race. Their openness to non-whites is even higher than straight white males’. Interesting, but why?

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By: Jerome Descimes http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34359 Fri, 13 May 2011 07:23:21 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34359 Congratulations and thanks from France ! Your analysis is very interesting, sometimes amazing, sometimes disturbing. Bravo pour ce travail très intéressant !

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By: Toetare "Equal Rights For Blacks Brotha" http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34354 Fri, 13 May 2011 03:26:36 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34354 Well, let’s consider some pivotal facts Okcupid is leaving out when posting these statistics to the public:

The white race brought the African American community into a country that’s 74% white (80% white if Hispanic whites are included) while blacks only make up 13% of the country. This has brought forth a slew of white privileges/black disadvantages. To add to that, because of whites, America has experienced a five-century long era of socially acceptable anti-black persecution which only fully came to an end by the mid-1970s. Efforts being made to improve the state of the black community throughout the 1970s as a result of all the oppression were already being overturned and heavily opposed by the very early 1980s when another republican was elected president, that of course being Ronald Reagan. With beliefs in “reverse racism” already prevailing among the American public by 1979 (as stated here http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q2JxxNuBWeMJ:www.infoplease.com/ce6/society/A0802658.html+brought+charges+of+so-called+reverse+discrimination+in+the+late&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us), most programs intended to helping the black community had begun being abandoned (not reparations, mind you, that could instantly equate the status of the black community to the status of white community, but merely catch-up aids for a toilsome game of catch-up that the African American community has been forced to play). As one example of aiding programs that were cut, programs intended to helping the black school system were all dropped throughout the early 1980s. More money and funds were put into white schools and societies in directions of white flight. This caused the majority of black schools to return to their previous 1960s condition by the late 1980s, and so on.
Believe it or not, this long history of racial persecution and failure to make up for it has created a whole host of negative effects for today’s African American community that rear their ugly head in the dating world as well. This history has created a whole host of white privileges/black disadvantages.

Let’s take a look at how this history has affected my experience in the dating world as a gay African American male. Few facts about myself: I am mocha-colored to be exact; 24 years of age; year away from earning my second college degree; into taking care of myself as I’ve always been fit (5’9 and 139 w/ a six pack), pearly white teeth, never drank nor smoke, never done drugs, never had any diseases, never done hook-ups nor friends with benefits and never will as I have strong values that go against all that kind behavior (no offense, but this is more than I can say for most gay, or even str8 white male I have ever heard of); I was born and raised middle-class in all-white suburbs. My requirements in another guy aren’t anything excessive. I always post that the other person must be: neither fat nor chubby, non-effeminate, a non-smoker, a non-heavy drinker, non-drug users, and no one with any sort of disease.

Now, I’ve never even been able to go on a date with anyone from my own race yet which is unsurprising when you consider the situation I’m in as a gay African American male: (1.) African Americans only make up 13% of the country (2.) Cut that 13% in half because the country is only 6% black male (3.) Cut down that 6% black male because not every black male is gay or bisexual (4.) Cut down that less than 6% even more because the era of socially acceptable anti-black persecution 35 years ago has left much of our community lower-class and struggling. To be exact 25.8% of the black community is poverty-stricken, while the majority of blacks are working-class. (as is stated here http://www.washingtoninformer.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4534:poverty-rate-among-african-americans-nearly-double-that-of-whites&catid=53:business&Itemid=162 AND HERE http://milwaukeecourieronline.com/index.php/2010/10/02/poverty-rate-among-african-americans-nearly-double-that-of-white-americans/ ). Working-class is an area below the middle-class level where most of the white community sits at. To break it down more clearly, finding middle-class black men like myself is hard enough as it is, without also trying to ferret out gay middle-class black men looking for long-term relationships. If you are lucky enough to be an African American born in Atlanta, Georgia — where most middle-class blacks in the U.S. live — perhaps this wouldn’t be such an issue, but what about the rest of the nation. I grew up not only in the mid-west, which is the most racially segregated area of the nation, but in Wisconsin which is the most racially segregated, and noted for its lack of black middle-class and suburbs (as is stated here http://racerelations.about.com/b/2011/04/04/do-you-live-in-one-of-americas-most-segregated-cities.htm )

I’ve come to realize that the only way I’d be able to find another gay black male that fits my standards is by saving up a lot of money and moving. I’ve asked my dad if I can attend college in Atlanta and he says he neither has the money nor the energy for all of that. Most black males in my neck of the woods, as is the case in many other areas of the nation, are only into secretive down low hook-ups and understandably so: Most of them are lower-class and the tough lower-class lifestyle that they lead do not allow for them to completely embrace their homosexuality. Being tough and able to survive in hood environments is crucial for lower-class African Americans. Additionally, because they’re dealing race issues, gay issues, and poverty issues all at once, its very likely they smoke, do drink heavily, do drugs, etc., which are all things that eliminate them from my list of requirements. Heck, it’s hard enough as it is to come across a gay white male that doesn’t smoke or do drugs, you can imagine how hard it is to come across a gay black male that doesn’t when they’re faced with a helluva lot more challenges than any gay white male.

So here I am, forced to search through a bunch of gay white males with racial hang ups. I’ve realized the Internet isn’t even an option anymore. Usually when I make out posts on Craigslist in search of an LTR and I get no responses, however, once when I changed “African American” to “White”, a bunch of white males started answering. (Internet dating is pivotal in the gay community even for whites by the way). Placed all the same exact stats and information: how I have my degree, never drank nor smoked nor done drugs, fit, so on and so forth. Only difference was that I changed my color, and my luck changed.

I can’t tell you how many white men have stared into my eyes daily (some even going so far as playing footsy with me) and have done all sorts of stuff that implies interests at college, then when I was direct about it, acted like they never did any such a thing and completely changed their tune. They’re very into wasting time and sending mixed messages which exacerbates the lives of gay black men even more. It goes hand in hand with the fact that most of the white men I’ve gone out on dates with (I’ve only been able to go on dates with white men by the way) all had something racially offensive to say. It’s almost as if they’re conflicted just because of skin color. I mean, before I even met the last guy I went out on a date with, he told me on the phone, “Can we just meet as friends? My parents would freak if I brought home a black guy.” “Why?” I asked. “Well please don’t take offense but most blacks are lazy and on welfare. You guys also have d*cks that look like fudge popcicles.” When we actually met, he wanted more but looked like a bum, had a hunch, and he had a small bald spot at only 20 years of age. I ended up sneaking off in the middle of our date while he had his back turned to me, rambling on, as he was out of my league. He called me off the hook, wondering why I bailed on him and had the nerve to say “I could have been nicer”. I’ve learned that a lot of white males are willing to get involved with African Americans with no hesitations whatsoever if you’re out of their league above them in some way, whether you’re 9 years younger than them, you’re skinny while they’re fat, you don’t smoke while they do, etc. I refuse to get the short end of the stick with a white male which unfortunately has meant I get no one. It’s important to note, however, that it’s not rare for white males who are uglier than black men to still act like the black guy is out of his league. The general consensus when I asked random strangers what I was on a scale of 1 to 10 was that I was a solid 8. Now I’ve come across a few white men that were straight up 3s and 4s with faces filled with that reddened acne that whites get. Anyways, these dudes STILL… STILL acted as if they were above me in the dating arena. Obviously I didn’t mind their not contacting me back after our dates as I would have turned them down anyway, but it’s more of an issue of ‘damn! I have no one from your own race to choose from as a result of the whites, and I can only get the short end of the stick as far as the majority of choices go, and sometimes not even that.’

Anyways, many of the white men I’ve gone out on dates with have said something similar to my last date in terms of black people. It explains why all of these white college men will send signals but then act differently once I approach them directly. Wasting my time with conflicted white men with racial hang ups, who like sending signals has been pretty much the story of my life. It really sucks having to put up with white people and having only white males who are out of my league to choose from. I hate that most middle-class black people live in Atlanta. I’ve asked my dad if I can attend college in Atlanta and he said he doesn’t have the energy and money for all that. I don’t get my second degree until May of 2012, so I’m going to have to put up with zero romantic life until then and figure out some way to save and move. Whites don’t have to consider any of this when looking for a soul mate. They can simply walk out of their homes because no one has racially persecuted them for 5 centuries, creating a whole host of disadvantages for them to deal with. Being 24 now, I’ll probably be too old by the time I’m able to move to Atlanta. All that said, not everyone is gay and I can’t speak for the str8 black male experience here in Milwaukee WI. I can say that, while I have had a great deal of pretty white girls flirt me up and look at me adoringly here at college and other venues, I don’t know what, if any, antics are played once you get involved with them. But let’s just say I’m doing a lot better for myself than my brother seemed to be going down the right path until he started dating white girls. That’s the point at which he took up smoking, dropped out of college, and had a baby with one white chick, who also smokes, when he wasn’t ready. But who knows if that was because of her or not. I can’t make any assumptions about the lives of str8 black male but I know for a fact the past horrors of whites have complicated the lives of gay blacks.

Whites are always bugging blacks about why they don’t feel motivated to be successful? Well, perhaps this is why. I am a relatively successful African American male and couldn’t be more miserable.

Last but not least, because of the likelihood of middle-class blacks growing up in all-white areas in the U.S., it’s very possible that they will begin to see whites as their preference while overlooking the option of another middle-class black person. Due to ignorance of what whites have done to are community, you have these types of black men making our trials and tribulations as a race that much harder.

THANK YOU OKCUPID FOR OMITTING ALL THIS INFORMATION IN ADDING STATISTICS THAT WILL PROBABLY ONLY SERVE TO COMPLICATE ISSUES FOR GAY BLACK MEN. IF YOU WANT TO PROVIDE SUCH STATISTICS, ITS ONLY FAIR YOU ADD ITS BACKGROUND AND EXPLANATION WITHOUT THE SURFACE THAT MAKES ONE GROUP LOOK BAD AND THE OTHER GROUP LOOK GOOD.

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By: M.S http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34351 Fri, 13 May 2011 01:37:59 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34351 I believe further research on bisexuals should be interesting.
I am very surprised by racial preference of bisexual males. White bisexual males don’t stick to their own race.

Except whites, all the races show similar strong preferences to their own races, compared to their gay male counterparts (~2% difference at most). Interestingly, however, white bisexual males show them a lot less than white gay males (-16%). Furthermore, their tendency is even lower than white straight males’ (-13%) but similar to white gay/bisexual females’ (~4%).

Actually, I have suspected this tendency from my experience.
I have felt bisexual or bi-curious suspected white guys seem to be interested in non-white guys. I believe it should be interesting to survey bisexuals in depth.

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By: FarceBeWithYou http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34343 Thu, 12 May 2011 00:51:29 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34343 I’d like to see an analysis on dating type test that you guys invented; and if the matches that happen on the site correlates to the “consider/avoid” types your test makes for each dating type.

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By: Jeremy http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34335 Wed, 11 May 2011 18:46:59 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34335 I’m curious about the “down-low” effect on these statistics. When I was dating online before I met my partner ( I’m a white male, he’s a Pacific Islander and we’ve been together for 3 years), I would get hit up by black men who didn’t want to show their faces or talk about their identity, and that just doesn’t cut it regardless of race. I never responded to people with only pictures of torsos, or other body parts.

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By: DK http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34272 Sun, 08 May 2011 05:16:45 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34272 I’d like to see the difference of messaging success between height and gender. 40 years ago this year, Time magazine did it’s first report on heightism in America. Has anything changed?

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By: TC http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34175 Tue, 03 May 2011 15:55:47 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34175 I just wanted to say that this blog is great! I am a bit of a data geek, majored in economics and statistics and now work as a data analyst. Kudos to you all for taking advantage of this data, geeking out, giving us all something interesting to look at and having a sense of humour about it all! Cheers

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By: anon http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/about/comment-page-1/#comment-34111 Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:13:19 +0000 http://services.okcupid.com/blog/?page_id=2#comment-34111 I would like to see an analysis of the questions “In a relationship, who do you prefer to be taller?” by gender, height and age, and maybe race as well. Looking at profiles, I seem to find a lot of women in the low to mid 30s who are under 5’6″ but looking for a man more that 6′ tall. As a North American male of completely average height (5’8″) who has dated women as short as 5’2″ and as tall as 6’1″, I find these sorts of limits absolutely maddening.

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