Welcome back, dorks. We’ve processed the messaging habits of over a million people and are about to basically prove that, despite what you might’ve heard from the Obama campaign and organic cereal commercials, racism is alive and well. It would be awesome if other big websites would go out on a limb and release their own race data, too. I can’t imagine they will: multi-million dollar enterprises rarely like to admit that the people generating those millions act like turds. But being poor gives us a certain freedom. To alienate all our users. So there.
When I first started looking at first-contact attempts and who was writing who back, it was immediately obvious that the sender’s race was a huge factor. Here are just a handful of the numbers that illustrate that:
The takeaway here is that although race shouldn’t matter in messaging, it does. A lot.
First of all, how do we know that race shouldn’t matter? Are we just making some after-school-special assumption that “true love is colorblind?” more compatibility usually
means more repliesNo, we’re not: we know race shouldn’t matter to replies because the races all match each other more or less evenly, and reply rate correlates to matching. That is, more compatibility generally means more replies.
On OkCupid you create your own unique matching system, and that means your better matches are people you actually want talk to. Below is a graph showing match percentages vs. reply rates for a random sample of 500,000 people.As you can see, in general, the better you match someone, the more likely you are to reply to a first message from them.
We can see this principle in action when we look at our trusty control, the Zodiac. Here are the match and reply rates side-by-side, with similar rates colored yellow. There’s no real need to inspect the numbers; just observe the similar colors.
- Throughout this post, yellowish colors are short-hand for “neutral” and red and green indicate “strong preference.”
People of the various Zodiac signs match each other all at roughly the average rate, and, as we would expect, they reply to messages similarly. In general, the correlation between match percentage and reply rate means that whenever we compare the match/reply charts for a given breakdown of the population, they should look about the same. However, this, like so many other fine assumptions, totally breaks down when race gets involved:
Again, don’t bother squinting, just check out the colors. We’ll soon look very closely at these tables.
So here’s last week’s compatibility by race table (I explained how we can confidently measure “compatibility” in that post). This is a blow-up of the leftmost table above:
As you can see, the races all match each other roughly evenly: good news. It means all other things being equal, two people, of whatever race, should have the same chance to have a successful relationshp. But now let’s look at the table of how individuals actually reply to each other’s messages. First we’ll examine messages sent by men to women (I know our gay readers are interested in same-sex versions of these tables, there’s a link to them here and at the end of this post):
The numbers on the perimeter of the table are the weighted average rates for each column/row. Here’s what we can know:
- Black women write back the most. Whether it’s due to talkativeness, loneliness, or a sense of plain decency, black women are by far the most likely to respond to a first contact attempt. In many cases, their response rate is one and a half times the average, and, overall, black women reply about a quarter more often that other women.
- White men get more responses. Whatever it is, white males just get more replies from almost every group. We were careful to preselect our data pool so that physical attractiveness (as measured by our site picture-rating utility) was roughly even across all the race/gender slices. For guys, we did likewise with height.
- White women prefer white men to the exclusion of everyone else—and Asian and Hispanic women prefer them even more exclusively. These three types of women only respond well to white men. More significantly, these groups’ reply rates to non-whites is terrible. Asian women write back non-white males at 21.9%, Hispanic women at 22.9%, and white women at 23.0%. It’s here where things get interesting, for white women in particular. If you look at the match-by-race table before this one, the “should-look-like” one, you see that white women have an above-average compatibility with almost every group. Yet they only reply well to guys who look like them. There’s more data on this towards the end of the post.
Let’s see what happens when it’s the women writing the messages to men.
- Men don’t write black women back. Or rather, they write them back far less often than they should. Black women reply the most, yet get by far the fewest replies. Essentially every race—including other blacks—singles them out for the cold shoulder.
- White guys respond less overall. The average reply rate of non-white males is 48.1%, while white guys’ is only 40.5%. Basically, they write back about 20% less often. It’s ironic that white guys are worst responders, because as we saw above they in turn get the most replies. That has apparently made them very self-absorbed.
Finally, here are a couple tables that shed further light on our discussion. These are site-wide answers to a couple user-written match questions. They barely need any explanation: one comments on the other, really. Together they shed more light on the theory/practice schizophrenia of people’s racial attitudes.
It’s surely not just OkCupid users that are like this. In fact, it’s any dating site (and indeed any collection of people) would likely exhibit messaging biases similar to what I’ve written up. Any dating site probably
has these biasesAccording to our internal metrics, at least, OkCupid’s users are better-educated, younger, and far more progressive than the norm, so I can imagine that many sites would actually have worse race stats. But like I said at the beginning, we’ll probably never know. See you next week.
(Addendum to original post)
Same-Sex Data for Race vs. Reply Rates
As promised, here are the same-sex versions of last week’s charts and tables. In general, they show that straights and gays share many of the same inclinations, but the prejudices of the latter are perhaps a bit less pronounced. I should say at the top that some of the sample sizes for the various race/gender slices presented here are rather small (for instance, OkCupid doesn’t have many lesbians of Indian descent), and that accounts, I think, for some of the scatter-shot nature of the color tables. Race preferences are not nearly as stark here as they are with the heterosexual data.
See for yourself:
Still, there are a few conclusions we can draw:
- Blacks get fewer responses. We saw this with the straight data, too, and here it’s true of both gay and lesbian senders. Black gay men get over 20% fewer responses than non-blacks, which is about how straight black men fared. Black women, on the other hand, do relatively much better with gays than straights. While they’re still the least replied-to group, the discrepancy is much smaller in the lesbian community.
- Whites respond by far the least to anyone.. Both white lesbians and white gay men write the fewest replies. In fact, across the two charts, whites respond about 15% less often than non-whites, and white gay men show a marked preference for other whites. On the other hand, gay white women don’t have the segregationist tendencies of their straight counterparts; they just dis everyone. Whereas last week we saw that straight white women strongly preferred other whites to the exclusion of other groups, lesbian whites respond to all 9 racial groups roughly evenly, and, in general, the lesbian community seems relatively colorblind. Only Indian lesbians receive a response rate far off the average, and as I said above, the sample size there is limited and the results might be skewed by chance.
- Asian lesbians are in demand, and they’re picky about other races. Gay Asian females are replied to the most, and, among the well-represented groups, they have the most defined racial preferences: they respond very well to other Asians, Whites, Native Americans, and Middle Easterners, but very poorly to the other groups. Latin women also express a clear preference, for Whites and Asians.
- Men prefer Middle Easterners. Gay men and straight men both respond best to Middle Easterners, and the preference is quite dramatic. I’d be interested to hear any theories why this is so.
As we did last week, we can see that all groups think, theoretically, that interracial relationships are acceptable, yet again whites are the least willing to have such a relationship themselves. This time it’s the men, not the women, who prefer most to keep to their own: it’s interesting that both in reply patterns and in their answers to these two match questions, the behavior of white straight women and white gay men are so closely parallel.
To our friends in the gay and lesbian communities: thanks for being patient and waiting for this data. We will do gay-centric articles in the future, I promise. Lately, since we’ve been dealing with complex and data-intensive subjects like race and reply rates, we’ve had to restrict ourselves to straight data in the primary post. We felt that adding a discussion of gay and lesbian trends alongside straight ones would triple the length of an already long and dense post and surely more than triple reader confusion. We will keep looking for ways to present the information you rightly expect; for now, it will be in addenda such as this one.
First off, since this is a discussion about racial, ethnic, and orientation identity, let me prefice my “two cents” by introducing my demographics: I’m a bisexual Caucasian female, and I’m in my early twenties. Oh, and I’m ethnically Jewish (as in, all my ancestors were Jewish all the way back, which means no inter-faith marriage which implies no inter-racial marriage).
Wait, it’s not that simple: I’m Israeli, but no, I’m not Middle Eastern by descent- Israel is just my nationality! My ethnic heritage (in terms of where my “blood comes from”, as opposed to cultural heritage, which is where *I* come from) is entirely Eastern European. For a long time, I had an inferiority complex about being “technically White”(i.e., not “exotic”) while feeling culturally “non-White” (my cultural heritage(Israeli Jew) is not the mainstream Caucasian experience), so I filled in “other” on surveys and such. Then I found some historical data about early 20th century ethnic/racial categorization in America, and found that, historically speaking, I would be considered an “Ethnic White”. That means I get to acknowledge my “whiteness” *and* my “ethnicity” (read: exoticism).
I’ve been thinking about this for a very long time, and one conclusion that I’ve come to, is that White, Caucasian, is considered a non-ethnicity. What do I mean by that? I mean, in the same way that one can take from Freud’s theories that (in his twisted mind) women are men without a phallus. Just to illustrate the ridiculousness of the concept.
Notice how some people use the term “ethnic” to differentiate ANY AND ALL non-Caucasians from Caucasians? It’s this idea that White is the standard, White is the Golden Rule, the ideal; it’s Colonial, and it’s really, really stupid.
Why do we use many terms for (some) non-Caucasian ethnicities/races, but generally use only one of two terms for (non-Spanish/Portuguese) Europeans?
For example, for Blacks we have: Black, variations of the N word (which are socially acceptable to varying degrees, depending on audience, speaker, context, etc.), the 50’s version of PC- Colored, and the 90’s PC term African American. BTW, has anyone read Having Our Say: The Delaney Sisters’ First Hundred Years? In it they are asked what term they prefer to use, and when African American is suggested, they dismiss it because they are *fully* American. What I’m getting to is, I want us to use the term European American for American Whites just as often as we use African American for American Blacks. Because if we don’t, it implies that White Americans are somehow more American than Black Americans, and that idea is appalling to me, and I hope to others as well.
First off, since this is a dialogue about social reprecussions of racial, ethnic, cultural, and gender identity (I’ll plug in sexual orientation as well), let me prefice my “two cents” by introducing the demographic from which I am coming: I’m a bisexual Caucasian female, and I’m in my early twenties. Oh, and I’m a ethnically Jewish (all my ancestors were Jewish, all the way back, which means there was no inter-faith marriage or conversion, which means there was also no inter-racial marriage).
Wait, it’s not that simple: I’m Israeli, but no, I’m not Middle Eastern by descent- Israel is just my nationality! My ethnic heritage (in terms of where my “blood comes from”; as opposed to cultural heritage, which is where *I* come from) is entirely Eastern European. For a long time, I had an inferiority complex about being “technically White”(i.e., not “exotic”) while I felt culturally non-White (my cultural heritage is not the mainstream Caucasian experience), so I filled in “other” on surveys and such. Then I found some historical data about early 20th century ethnic/racial categorization in America, and found that, historically speaking, I would be considered an “Ethnic White”. That meant I got to acknowledge my “whiteness” *and* my “ethnicity” (read: exoticism).
I’ve been thinking about this for a very long time, and one conclusion that I’ve come to, is that White, Caucasian, is considered a non-ethnicity. What do I mean by that? I mean, in the same way that one can take from Freud’s theories that (in his twisted mind) women are men without a phallus. Just to illustrate the ridiculousness of the concept.
Notice how some people use the term “ethnic” to differentiate ANY AND ALL non-Caucasians from Caucasians? It’s this idea that White is the standard, White is the Golden Rule, the ideal; it’s Colonial, and it’s really, really stupid.
Why do we use many terms for (some) non-Caucasian ethnicities/races, but generally use only one of two terms for (non-Spanish/Portuguese) Europeans? (Caucasian and White)
For example, for American Blacks we have Black, variations of the N word, the 50’s version of PC- Colored, and the 90’s PC term African American. BTW, has anyone read Having Our Say: The Delaney Sisters’ First Hundred Years? In it they are asked what term they prefer to use, and when African American is suggested, they dismiss it off the bat because they are *fully* American. What I’m getting to is, I want us to use the term European American for American Whites just as often as we use African American for American Blacks. Because if we don’t, it implies that White Americans are somehow more American than Blacks, and that idea is appalling to me, and I hope to others as well.
Race has no plce in dating,responding,ect.,ect.It astonishes me to see this atrocity!!!!!!!
Personally, I’d like to see more Interracial dating among all groups. I’m just saying…
Racism is always terrible, but at least this article handled it with tact. What they didn’t handle with tact, however, was calling white guys “shitty” for their low reply rate even though that rate is nearly double the reply rate for white women, and still over 50% more than the reply rate for most groups of women on the list. I know this article was about racism and not sexism, but to bash one group like that while ignoring groups that are worse is quite the definition of “shitty.”
If you are a so-called “non-white” leave this site so all these white-trash devils can procreate and make more Nazi babies. Why would any minority want to date and marry a white-person?? They get old,wrinkled up and usually die from cancer..LOL yeah I said it so what..LOL
@Nadia
LOL
that was pretty good. Completely wrong, but you really did try.
Now to clear a few things up:
I am a Black Woman
I am a General Surgery Resident. (like that Grey’s Anatomy show, but I spend a lot less time getting freaky in the call rooms and actually operate on people! hence the “surgerychick” moniker.)
When you need your Gastric Bypass surgery in a few years, look me up!
(oh man! I couldn’t resist!)
I won’t even speak on the abundance of rhinoplasty in the middle east (I challenge you to stop looking at yourself in the mirror and google that one too: “Nose Jobs in Iran”).
The point is not whether YOU are “cute” or not. Then again, if you are really soooo fine why are you on dating sites? When you say that one race of people is Universally attractive that just irks the hell out of me. If that were true, everyone wouldn’t be trying to get that Beyonce booty!
I am sure you have seen the Booty Pop commercials! If you said that “the white standards of beauty proposed to us by the racist capitalist patriarchy for which we have all been brain washed into thinking we women-of-color can attain” (ooo big words!) is what you are basing your comments on I would not have even wasted my time.
The fact that Black Women do not get replies goes bit deeper than whether or not we are “attractive” (in America at least) and this article is really just stating what a lot of us know to be true and are relieved to see in black and white (pun totally intended)
Now, I have spent tooo much of my time on this so to you I say, “GOOD DAY!”
@KoalaVered Wow, just because you grew up with some sort of internal struggle of your cultural vs religeous identity doesnt mean you can put that on other whites/caucasian Americans.
You have it backwards, African American was the term blacks chose for THEMSELVES instead of the pre 1970 term “Colored” or “Negro” which was common in the United States for more than a century. I am Scandanavian/English by blood, but those countries/identities mean nothing to me…I was born in America, as was my father , his father and his father. I don’t need to identify myself as “European American” because I am not. I am American. Thats it.
It is usually minorities in America that feel the social need to dual identify themselves by their ethnic makeup as either African American, or Mexican American etc. It really irritates me when they do that too, because it seems like they are trying to hold on to dual identiities.
And thats where your attention should be focused…either your American or not…drop the hyphenated dual identity..and just be American.
.
It makes me sad to see so many sisters writing about how this blog post makes them want to give up on online dating. First off, while black women do worse than women of other races, a black woman writing to a man still has a better chance of getting a response than a man of any race writing a woman of any race on OK Cupid.
Second off, while people may be more racist than they care to admit on average, every individual is different. You don’t date statistical averages, you date individuals.
Me, I’m a straight white male with the usual stuff women want (tall, in shape, successful, no baggage, well-educated, etc.) and I’ve responded to 100% of black/latina women who have written me, versus at most 25% of messages from white/Asian women.
Why? I don’t have strong racial preferences as far as who I’m attracted to, but I meet white and Asian women every day. I use dating sites to meet people I wouldn’t encounter in everyday life, and I know there are countless others like me out there.
Another big factor is that with all the messages I’ve gotten from non-white women, it’s been obvious that the person writing me actually put some thought into the message. I will *always* respond to a message that it seems like it took more than 5 minutes to write, but a lot of the messages I get do not.
Basically, my experience is that there is a HUGE contingent of white women who spam guy after guy because they just like seeing if they can get a response. They don’t even really want to talk to you — they just want to see if they can get you to write them a message because they like having a full inbox. They’re here looking for validation rather than dates/new friends. So I basically ignore any short message I get, particularly if it comes from a white woman, because it’s so often a waste of time.
I think if OKC looked at this phenomenon — person 1 writes person 2, person 2 writes back, person 1 never responds to the response — they would find a high percentage of white female users who habitually do that. I wish OKC would work out a way to publicly identify such users, because it would make the site a lot more enjoyable to use.
Fascinating! Highlights the issue: how we would like to think we behave vs how we actually behave are two very different things.
Identity definitions are a deeply personal and varied subject where you will find just as many people on one side of an issue as there are on the other side. Nonetheless, acknowledging our biases is the first step to overcoming them…(-:
To “I just accept it”: if you truely understand this world, then you should know that for many issues there are over-riding factors that, regardless of the value of other factors, are the sole determinants of outcomes. In case you have not read this entire report, the “compatibilities” among all races are very evenly distributed, and race is by far the largest, if not the only, factor in people’s mate-selection process. To put it another way, sure, being caring might boost your desirability (I’m not as certain about being honest), but only if you two are of the same race. I doubt it’d be equally helpful when you’re not white, given that white females have prexisting bias against interracial romance. Of course there are always exceptions, but they’re called exceptions for a reason.
Until we can change the racially biased culture in dating, I doubt being a little more caring will be significantly helpful. And I don’t believe it’s impossible to change culture. After all, black people used to have to sit in the back of buses.
To “I just accept it”: just to clarify what I meant by changing the culture. Certainly I’m talking about any form of legislation, but changing through education. Let me use myself as an exmple. I admit that when I was younger, I used to have bias against black women (and women of dark skin in general). However, over the years, many people have lectured me over how my thinking was wrong, and that I should not judge potential mates on race/skin tone alone. So these, along with more interactions with other racial groups, my opinion has changed and I now no longer have that bias. So I believe such cultural changes are possible, but only if everyone doesn’t take that “what can I do about it” attitude.
I’m outraged that okc is implying that just because I’m white and I’m not attracted to blacks, that I’m racist.
It’s quite simple, I don’t find blacks attractive, whether they’re fat or thin, young or old, light or dark, tall or short, have kinky hair or straight hair… regardless of their features, personalities, interests, values, professions, family situations, or knowledge of MLB’s infield fly rule, I’m not attracted to them, not one damned bit… there isn’t a black in the world I’m attracted to… it’s just my PREFERENCE.
And it’s highly offensive for okc to even slightly imply that this could be racist on my part, especially when we all know that racist whites all wear hoods and burn crosses.
@pseudotriton: I can concede that for many people, race plays a large part in who they deem to be suitable for a relationship (or even a fling). And for some people, they secretly cross someone off their list with a permanent marker when they find out the race. Such is the world we live in…
It seems like we agree pretty much on the existence and extent of the problem (strong/overriding racial preferences in dating), but disagree on what the appropriate reaction to it should be. My comments are probably very revealing of my personality. I am a rather passive person in all areas of life. I guess what I’m doing is pretty much like that John Mayer song “Waiting on the world to change”. Perhaps I’m just a follower and not a leader. But I’m just saying that our opinions could differ because our personalities are different.
You described an instance where you recognized your own biases and changed for the better. To me that is what we should all do: focus on our own prejudices. Because we can’t control how others see us, but we can control how we act and how we see the world.
I see no problem with dating preferences based on race, ethnicity, gender, height, weight or any other aspects. People should choose a mate that they are attracted to and feel comfortable with, not who they are told to date by the elites.
If a white man only dates white women, then he is a racist. If a white man only dates black women, then that is okay?
SurgeryChick:
I’m really not going to get into a bashing war with you. Please. You’re a Doctor and I’m a Ph.D, so I think we’re a little above that.
I am NOT saying that there should be a universal standard of beauty. I am NOT saying that black women aren’t attractive (come on. some of the most beautiful girls I know are black). But what I AM saying is that there is, unfortunately, a Europeanization of beauty that deems “European” features as more attractive, and that is why there are indeed Middle Eastern women who get nose jobs.
But not every Middle Eastern women has a gigantic nose on their face! In fact, most don’t. I’ve actually been asked why I DON’T have a big nose, which angers me because that is such a stereotype and shows ignorance.
What I was trying to get at is that many Middle Eastern women (I am talking more Mediterranean/Israelis/Egyptians/Iraqis, not those from the Gulf, because they are true Semites), as well as Latinas, tend to be viewed as “safe exotics” by white men because they are white enough for them to be acceptable, but they have alluring features – big eyes, dark hair, etc. And I think that Middle Eastern women on dating websites, most of whom are probably Christian, especially get replies because we tend to a) be well-educated b) interesting and traveled and c) have good values, ie, won’t jump into bed with every dude we see!!
That’s another thing. I noticed that a majority of black women in their 20s and 30s on dating websites have kids! So do Latinas actually. I don’t know what cultural differences that speaks to, but I sure as hell wouldn’t wink at a guy if they had two children. Sorry!
Why are women writing men first? Uhm, that is so masculine.
If you let the men write you then you won’t have to worry about rejection and not getting responses. DUH. men should be the pursuers not women. It reeks of masculinity when a woman approaches a man first.
Like i said, stop writing to men first, then maybe you won’t have to deal with rejection, b/c if they are writing you that means they are interested.
I NEVER write ot men first on dating sites and i would never approach a man first (face to face).
I wonder if this report has less to do with race and more with weight. There’s no mystery that black women are more prone to be overweight than any other race. Let’s face it, is more likely you’ll find single black women who look like Madea than Beyonce.
To SomebodySays:
I agree that there might be a connection between black women and weight. I really think that the lower reply rate has more to do with health and other factors such as kids. I actually looked at the black women on match.com and even the educated ones in their 20s and 30s tend to have chidren! This might speak to a cultural issue, ie., minorities tend to have more children because of lesser access to birth control, but the fact that even educated black women have children younger speaks to something larger (oppressed people have more of an instinct to have children because of previous genocides, etc? It’s an interesting theory in evolutionary studies). Furthermore, many of the AA women I saw on the site tend to be overweight. I agree that the europanization of beauty might deem women with curves not as attractive, but I think there is a difference between “curvy” and just plain overweight. I mean, come on. Being overweight is just NOT HEALTHY!!!
Furthermore, I find it insulting that Middle Eastern women might get more replies because we are now “the forbidden other”. God FORBID a white guy find someone that’s exotic more attractive than a blond! I think it has to do with other factors…ie, most Middle Eastern girls in the United States are smart, put-together, don’t have daddy issues (ie, our fathers were there for us, unlike a lot of white and black girls), don’t jump into bed with every guy we see cause we’re desperate for attention, interesting, well-traveled, often speak two or more languages, etc. We’re also independent and not tied down to kids, but are very family-oriented. There are larger factors here that need to be looked at, besides “these people are pretty,” etc.
I’m sorry I don’t care what they say. A woman approaching or writing a man first is so masculine and unnatural. Most men want a challenge and want to pursue the women they find attractive.
To all the Black girls on here writing to white men and whoever else – just STOP! Stop listening to these White women and feminists telling you its okay to approach a man first – its not okay and its not feminine. The White women and feminists can somewhat afford to be masculine and approach men first b/c they have their race working in favor for them. Black women don’t and are already viewed as masculine. You are already at a disadvantage b/c of your race (based on the study and the ignorant comments being made here), so why would you go even a step further and make yourself look masculine and desperate by messaging some white man first?
If you have a good pic(s), a decent profile, then let the men write to you first. if they aren’t writing to you then they are not interested. PERIOD. if they write to you first then you know they have an interest. No questions need to be asked if “oh did he not respond to me b/c I am Black” Maybe he didn’t respond to you b/c its unnatural for a woman to pursue or approach a man first.
I am so sick of the “its 2010 and women can do whatever men can do” baloney. NO, its masculine to approach a man first. And while he may bite (b/c no man really wants to turn down an attractive woman) he most likely will end up going with a woman that HE had to pursue and that was a challenge.
@ “I just accept it”, you missed entirely the main point of my story. I did not recognize my own biases UNTIL people around me have pointed out the inappropriateness in my thinking. One can focus on his/her own prejudices but only after they have been made aware of them. A quick browse of the comments posted here alone suggests that many folks still do not consider their racially based “preferences” as prejudice. So how/why would they change something that they deem normal? It’s up to others to raise the awareness of such prejudices.
BTW, I left out a word in my last post. I meant “NOT through legislation but through education”. I think cultural changes are possible through mutual education between people, as I have illustrated with my story. But its possiblity is drastically reduced if everyone takes a passive stance and “just accept” the status quo.
Amazing how many people still continue to believe we choose who we are attracted to.
Most amazing that this idea is coming from liberals…who have been saying the opposite about gay people for decades! Isn’t it supposed to be conservatives who claim that people make some sort of choice about who they will be attracted to? Don’t they talk about “re-educating” people that they feel aren’t attracted to who conservatives think they should? Now we have liberals doing the same thing. That’s sad AND funny.
If more people find whites to be more attractive that’s just the way it is. There isn’t any way to force people to become attracted to people they don’t find attractive. Politics is no match for nature.
Nadia,
you sound really immature, but I do agree with some of your assessments and wholly disagree with others you’ve made. I do often wonder how much of BW’s low response rate has much to do with being overweight, having poorly written profiles, bad pics, kids etc.
BUT, your insistent rambling about how “superior” Middle eastern women are is really disturbing and off kilter. I think kim Kardashian and her clan of sisters prove that not all Middle Eastern women are even close to what you have stated. the fact is women are women. And while Middle easterners do have more solid family values, they also have quite a bit of issues and cultural mishaps they have to contend with when it comes dating (in America).
Let’s face it. men will screw and go on casual dates with most attractive visually appealing women. But who they have long term relationships and marriages with are a different story. So while Midd east women may be getting lots of views, responses and replies on dating sites, I wouldn’t put too much stock into that, just as I tell other BW not to put too much stock into getting low responses in online dating. in fat, Many BW have stated that a lot of men who check the every race but Black box on their profiles, will often times wink or send messages to Black women they find attractive. SOOO what I am saying, is men will always reply to attractive women. it has nothing to do with you being superior b/c you are Midd east or whatever. And I can bet half the time they probably upon looking at your pic first, assume you are Latina before Midd East.
So I disagree that more men in general are interested in Midd eastern women b/c of the forbidden fruit thing. Simply put, Middle eastern women (as you mentioned in another post of yours) are a safer exotic bet than BW. But moreso, many Midd east women (minus the large noises) resemble Latinas and I believe this is where most men in general may be thinking they are seeing. But I find that most men will not stick around long after being with a midd eastern women b/c of the stark cultural differences. So while it may be easier for Midd east women to get their foot in the dating doors, I’d be really interested at seeing Midd east women’s “staying power” with most American men in general.
And I would wager if any female group has it made the most in the dating dept., it would be Asian women, then Latinas – midd eastern women don’t scratch the surface in general.
Last but not LEAST, let’s remember it’s not about quantity of profile views, winks, responses and dates. Its about the quality. So if your ego needs to be fed by these things, I hope you have plenty of clean up tools afterwards when you realize that probably 80-90% of those winks, dates, responses and profile views are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
That’s why I tell my sisters (Black Women) do not fret. All you need is one quality guy to message you etc. you don’t need a billion messages in your inbox. That is, unless you need your ego fed temporarily only to have to pick up the pieces of it afterwards realizing it simply doesn’t equate to quality men/women or relationships. But if you are doing online dating to meet the “one” then why this desire for all the attention by those who aren’t?
have a good day.
To what I’m confused says: Just take em as they come huh? Wouldn’t you rather pick em out yourself. Masculine that’s absurd there should never be that type of bias. Women should write men just as much as other. Why not if anything we are all just here to have fun and meet people. Sometimes people could think they are not good enough would you want that to stand in your way of meeting a great guy or maybe even one of his friends, cause chances are around 50% he will write you back, not the 25% that you might write him back. Is that enough or should I go on its just a huge double standard. Would you stop already and just let us all be equal.
To everyone else yes the whole racial thing has way to many other catalysts to hold this to anything. The more serious one is the sexes. We all know more women have kids at home in their 20’s than men at least admit to it. I think the difference between men and women is absurd and makes them self absorbed, lol.
Why you telling black women to stop writing white men. If they want to let em they’ll get more response than we will.
I have to agree, numbers don’t lie. Unfortunately, I fall under the category of Asian-Male. So I can see how the odds are not in my favor, which explains a lot =P
Im glad someone else brought it up above (Black women stop messagine men first)…That goes for ALL women…not just black ones…however black women seem oto be the most aggressive on here with the messaging directly.
Men like to do the approaching, if we like you we will message you…end of story. Aggression is NOT attracive ladies…
My 6 closest friends are (in no order)
1. A black guy
2. A white girl
3. An indian guy
4. A jewish guy
5. A middle eastern girl
6. A chinese girl
I love them more than anything! I think they are the best ultimate people ever. There is no WAY I’m racist.
And I think that people like Surgerychick are profoundly misguided and well, stupid. (Well what do you expect if you’re only an ER doc… lol)
I think bootypop is one of the dumbest things in the world and I find the Beyonce butt totally unattractive (although the rest of Beyonce is fiiiine).
The only guys I’ve ever dated have been tall, lean, white guys… I dno! They’re really sexy to me… I don’t find black guys that attractive or indian guys or asian guys.
I think it’s completely acceptable and expected for certain races or types of guys to be preferred by certain people.
Also, can I just say that I fucking LOVE okcupid for this… it’s so friggin interesting
What statistcal significance tests were performed
Where it is appropriate
I’m pretty sure many cultural stereotypes are associated with race. E.g. I’d rather date an Asian-American girl vs. an Asian girl, and Id rather date an African or Brittish-African girl vs. an African American.
Its hard to call people racist based on these facts alone. Prejudiced, perhaps.. but there is a difference.
People can say that it is an atrocity and it offends them but the whole point is that it is true. They didn’t just make these figures up. I’m a black male living in Kentucky, I’m well educated, have a good job, all my teeth and a car. I dress nicely and I’m fun to be around but for some reason white women feel as if they could never see themselves dating me. I’m not stuck up or conceded its just the way it is. When I have conversations with some of my coworkers and friends they all feel the same way. Race does play a big part in how people approach each other and in developing relationships.
I’m Black and I have to say that ever since this blog was posted I’ve been getting a plethora of messages from White and Asian guys on okCupid. I can only assume that men who thought I wouldn’t be interested suddenly understood that they had a decent chance on getting a return reply if they messaged me.
I don’t have a preference for which race I date so I’ve been pretty happy with the outcome.
Since this blog came out I’ve averaged 2-3 dates per week. It’s awesome. Thanks okCupid!
People don’t decide what races to be attracted to any more than people get to decide to be straight/gay.
I find myself generally unattracted to black women, and that’s not racist, it’s just how I’m wired.
I wonder if cultural differences unrelated to race that may be confounding these results. For example, if black women were generally an extra 30 pounds over weight (for whatever cultural reason) and men are scorning them for their appearance and not their race, then it would seem that those men are racist, when really they are just assholes.
This article exaggerates the differences in reply rate with bright colors, literally. A few percent isn’t anything to get your panties in a bunch over. So people have their preferences. It’s not racism to prefer someone like you, anyway, as this article bluntly states. If anything, it’s the most natural. Everyone wants to appear PC so they overwhelmingly answer that interracial marriage isn’t bad, but when asked about their own preference a lot more prefer their own group.
I find the stats kinda funny, because I believed it to be true before I read them. Honestly, people just fool themselfs, most WHITE guys want an asian girl, and most asian girls want asian guys, and most black guys wants asian or white girls.
Most middle eastern want weathly white or asian guys.
The fact that I generally don’t reply to a black girl doesn’t make me racists, but shows I generally do not find the profiles of them to be “my type” or their looks are not “attractive”.
I have black friends, no issue, but for some reason I don’t even find “the sexiest women alive”, Halle Berry, to be the LEAST be “sexy” or “cute” or anything, she looks NASTY to me, as do most black girls. Some may be fun, but it is a gut natural feeling. And I guess most guys on OK cupid feel the same, that or black girls can’t write decent profiles
@whoever posted the thing about “african-americans” I love you man
Those people are the racists that INSIST on using those terms….
@Belfry
“I don’t find blacks attractive, whether they’re fat or thin, young or old, light or dark, tall or short, have kinky hair or straight hair… regardless of their features, personalities, interests, values, professions, family situations, or knowledge of MLB’s infield fly rule, I’m not attracted to them, not one damned bit… there isn’t a black in the world I’m attracted to… ”
Sounds pretty racist to me…
The most interesting part of all this to me is how some people can claim to be offended by this data. They are offended and angry at the writer of the blog for presenting the objective data which reflects nothing other than statistical reality. It’s just incredible. Here’s a tip for these people: Maybe if you weren’t so stupid you’d have better luck with women. I don’t think it’s because your brown, I think it’s because you scapegoat every problem in your life on factors you can’t control to be sure you dodge any personal responsibility and you have no concept of how reality works. Keep up the good work blogger.
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Wow seriously? just because white people are not attracted to other races this is automatically racism?
You people are really stupid, please stop attacking black women
there are millions of us worldwide, most of us dont need a dating site for whitemen to chase us lol. we can get whitemen just walking down the streets.
Why are some of you other women feel so threaten by black women.
Also I think that you americans have a problem with the black women there
you degrade them, humilate them at every turn. Please its not fun to read on these internet articules. Look whitemen are not exotic meats lol
They are not superior to me as a black woman.
I can get one, as cute sexy man, cos thats how I see them as men.
I also see myself as a woman not an inferior being
so please peope stop bashing black women on the internet.
I am a black male and I couldn’t care less WHY someone doesn’t respond to me. It may be because I am ugly to them, or because I am black, or because I am short, or because I failed to put my “i” before my “e” except after “c”. Doesn’t matter. You are not interested. I keep it movin’. Thanks for not replying so I don’t have to waste time trying to get to know you, only to find out later that you aren’t that into me.
Thanks for listening.
YOU ALL ARE SO GOT DAMN DUMB. THAT IS ALL.
AND FOR THOSE THAT STILL SEE COLOR YOUR NEVER GONNA BE HAPPY IN THE LONG RUN.
BLACK WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL. SEXY ASS BODY FOR DAYS.
LATINA WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL. SEXY ASS BODY FOR DAYS TOO.
ASIAN WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL. GET EM IN BED LOL
MIXED WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL. EXOTIC ONE OF A KIND LOOKING WOMEN.
WHITE WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL. THEY DO IT ALL.
HOOK UP WITH SOMEONE OUTSIDE OF YOUR RACE IT MIGHT BE A GOOD EXPERIENCE FOR YOU.
ONCE YOU GO BLACK YOU GONE NEED A WHEEL CHAIR OR ONCE YOU GO BLACK YOU NEVER GO BACK.
ONCE YOU GO WHITE YOU KNOW YOU’VE BEEN LICKED RIGHT.
ONCE YOU GO LATIN MAN ITS THE BEST THING THATS HAPPENED.
ONCE YOU GO ASIAN YOU GONE BE MAKING BABIES.
LOL GOTTA LOVE IT.
I don’t date black guys because of the reactions from my friends and my family. There is this unspoken rule that black guys aren’t suitable. A typical black guy would never belong in my social world. He would stick out so much it would be uncomfortable for all involved.
Sigh. I have the biggest case of cognitive dissonance and I don’t know how it happened…all of my friends voted for Obama. We campaigned for him, went door to door in 2008. We partied all night when he won the election. However we don’t have 1 single black person in our group of friends. Not in my immediate social circle nor in my larger network of acquaintances. I think it is because I go to grad school in a very technical field. There are students of EVERY race and ethnicity except from black. Students from Asia, Brazil, Morocco, Eastern Europe, South Africa, etc. BUT not one single black person in the entire department in the 4 years that I’ve been here. We have tons of Asian and Indian professors (of both sexes) who can’t speak English correctly. Yet we listen to them everyday and look at them everyday so that we get used to them. I think that has opened up my mind to dating Asian and Indian guys. I guess my point is that repeated exposure (especially where the minority is in a position of authority and expertise) made me start to see certain Asians and Indians as attractive.
After hanging around white, Asian, Indian and South American people for so long and so exclusively, you start to see black people as existing in another parallel but separate universe. Honestly it’s not like I live in the Deep South. I live in a liberal city on the East Coast, so I really don’t know how this happened. Self segregation? I have 2 close friends-one is married to a Chinese girl and the other is married to a Argentinean guy and so maybe that’s why those racial pairing seem more “normal” to me?
To Little Pe oed and WHY?
(1) First off it has and always will be unnatural for women to pursue men – no matter her race or no matter how attractive she is. Ultimately, in the end, men may date or even write back women who pursue them. But in the end, they will always fall for the women they had to pursue and “chase”. Not the ones who are available and pursuing them.
(2) next, MEN are wired to pursue the women they find appealing. When women approach men it reeks of masculinity since its evolutionary for males of any species to do the choosing of women. it is then up to women to be selective about the men who are approaching them. Pursuing a male first also puts the woman in a vulnerable position, b/c if you are not his type etc., you will get rejected in one shape or another. It is simply unnatural for a woman to set herself up for rejection. it is usually males who are made to accept and deal with rejection when it comes to dating and mating.
(3) based on the facts above and this study (and the slew of ignorant racist immature comments about Black women on here), it says to me that maybe Black women should stop messaging men of any race first. Most of the ones Black women are messaging are prejudice part racist assholes who have no interest in you whatsoever (b/c of the color of your skin) OR they just prefer something different. WHY should Black women stop messaging men first? B/C we are already at a disadvantage b/c of our race (obviously there are plenty of negative views about Black women), we are also going against the natural evolution of allowing the male to approach and pursue you FIRST.So wouldn’t it make sense for Black women to sit back and let the decent non racist progressive men to approach them first? It removes all doubt of whether they are racist, prejudice, hold negative views about Black women, have other preferences. And frankly, assholes should be ignored. Decent Black women should not be giving racist, prejudice assholes any time of the day or any attention. and the way to avoid that and possible rejection is to leave the men alone and let the ones interested in you as a Black woman approach you FIRST.
If Black women are looking for quality decent progressive non blk males, the only way they are going to find them is if they stop messaging the idiots who hold bad views of Black women and allow the decent non racist ones to come to them.
Smart Black women do this, and they are quite successful in the dating arena, moreso than the ones who are messaging White and other non Black males who have no interest in Black women.
OK so after reading this Cupid study and reading the comments here, I am asking myself why are Black women even on sites like this?
if you are a Black woman interested in dating interracially wouldn’t it make sense to just go onto the interracial dating sites where the men there are already looking to meet and be with a Black woman?
There are a ton of Interracial dating sites for Black women to set up profiles and have a much smoother transaction dealing with Non Blk men who are halfway there, willing and ready to have a relationship with Black women.
Stop wasting your keystrokes, time and energy on White and other Non Blk men on regular dating sites. Its obvious your efforts are being wasted on men who frankly don’t deserve any attention from Black women and have no interest in you b/c you are Black (read the comments).
Come on sisters, use your noodle, stop wasting your time and energy on men who aren’t even halfway there. I would say differently, if it were obvious Black women were contacting the right males. You obviously aren’t (based on the study) and should be more mindful of where you spend your quality time in terms of online dating.
Get off Ok Cupid (and other mainstream general dating sites) and skip over to the plentiful interracial dating sites with PROGRESSIVE Non Racist/prejudice/colorist men.
i have also heard that E Harmony is a good place for Black women b/c there is a race filter. so if the men are not interested with Black women, you won’t even see them as a match. So you don’t even know they exist and vice versa.
OK Cupid needs to get with the program and make a race filter, so that particular groups (like Black women) won’t even come in contact or be matched with White or other Non Blk males who have no interests in Black women.
OK CUPID,
Please get with the program and just go ahead and make a race filter. its obvious this dating site needs one.
Its obvious the people who sign up on your dating site are not as progressive as you thought they’d be.
its not fair to those who come to this site thinking they stand a fair chance, to be constantly matched with people, only to find out later they are not being responded to b/c of thier race.
Please update your site with a race filter, so that certain groups who are most likely to be rejected b/c of race, don’t even have to see or write to those who have no interest in a person based on their race. Its a waste of everyone’s time and energy.
E Harmony does this and its wonderful b/c you are not going to be matched with a person in which race is most important to them in dating.
spanish and portugese are white
say that in spain or portugal and see what happens to you
you will offend the entire country
We black men who don’t fit neatly into the stereotype made for us don’t stand a chance in the dating world, online or off. The black women with whom we would likely find the most compatibility don’t want us. Women of every other race despise us. It’s sad that the good have to answer for the evils of the not so good. White men and men of other races never have to worry about this. A girl can rest assured that her family won’t disown her if she brings you home. She can also be content in knowing that almost everyone she encounters will approve of her relationship with you. Regardless of our quality as people, black men suffer from a hideous social handicap that affects not only our dating lives, but other areas as well. Life to me just doesn’t seem worth living anymore. It’s not made for me.