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Silk Road forums

Discussion =3D> Silk Road discussion =3D> Topic= started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 09, 2012, 03:56 am

Title: State of the Road Address
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 09,= 2012, 03:56 am
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- From it's hum= ble beginnings, the Silk Road market was quickly populated with what has be= come a vibrant community full of interesting characters.=C2=A0 From our sup= erstar vendors and ever helpful mods to all of the active folks on the foru= m, the people here are truly awesome.=C2=A0 Silk Road would not be what it= is or possibly even exist without everyone who has stepped up along the wa= y to point out security flaws, contribute their ideas, and take this experi= ment on as their own and stand with us.

It didn't take long before= word got out.=C2=A0 Our little hidden market got the attention of the medi= a and soon the politicians and law enforcement.=C2=A0 But Silk Road was nev= er meant to be private and exclusive.=C2=A0 It is meant to grow into a forc= e to be reckoned with that can challenge the powers that be and at last giv= e people the option to choose freedom over tyranny.=C2=A0 We fundamentally= believe that people can thrive and prosper under these conditions and so= far tens of thousands have done so in the Silk Road market.=C2=A0 A revolu= tion has been born.=C2=A0 So ideally, more participants means more prosperi= ty.=C2=A0 What we've found in practice is that if there is an opportunity= to cheat, steal or lie for personal short-term gain, someone, somewhere wi= ll exploit it.

So, we've had two major challenges to face as Silk Ro= ad grows and evolves.=C2=A0 One is making our systems tough enough and flex= ible enough to withstand and win a cyber-war with the most powerful organiz= ations in the world, should they choose to start that war.=C2=A0 This is al= ways and ever a top priority.=C2=A0 The other is making the market a place= where people can quickly and easily buy and sell just about anything witho= ut worrying about being attacked by gun toting men in uniforms and thrown= in a cage or worry about being ripped off by their trading partner.
I am proud to say we have been successful in achieving these goals up to= this point.=C2=A0 The site remains up and functioning (despite a few screw= ups on our part, like not having a full capacity backup server ready to go= when a live server went down, and a poorly executed url switch, just to na= me a few).=C2=A0 And, over 99% of all transactions conducted within the esc= row system are completed to the satisfaction of both both buyer and seller,= or a mutually agreed upon resolution is found.

This success has in= no way made us complacent however.=C2=A0 New members are still being lured= into trading outside of escrow by scammers and getting ripped off, and =E2= =80=9Cfinalizing early=E2=80=9D, effectively cutting out the escrow process= , is common practice.=C2=A0 Still, I believe we can mitigate these risks an= d take our market to the next level in security, reliability, performance,= and convenience for everyone involved.

First we must deal with trad= ing out of escrow.=C2=A0 Up to this point we have charged a flat 6.23% comm= ission on all trades.=C2=A0 This is much too high for transactions in the= $300 and over range, making trading out of escrow for large transactions= much more attractive than staying within the system.=C2=A0 Now, instead of= charging a flat commission, we will charge a higher amount for low priced= items and a lower amount for high priced items, similar to how eBay does= it.

We've worked hard to come up with a commission schedule that sh= ould work for everyone and will give scammers no excuse to make people send= money outside of escrow.=C2=A0 For some perspective, eBay and amazon charg= e the following rates:

eBay=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- $0.50 to list, 11%= of the first $50, 6% of $50.01-1000, 2% of $1000.01+
amazon - $1.35 += 15% (for almost all items)

We also went to the Silk Road independen= t sellers to see what they thought an appropriate commission schedule would= look like.=C2=A0 The average response looked like this:

15% of the= first $10
11% of $10 - $50
8.14% of $50 - $250
5.6% of $250 - $10= 00
3.7% of $1000 - $5000

We looked at past sales data and our cur= rent and future revenue needs and were able to bring these numbers down eve= n further:

10% of the first $50
8.5% of $50 - 150
6% of $150= - 300
3% of $300 - 500
2% of $500 - 1000
1.5% for everything over= $1000

With this change, there are no phoney excuses whatsoever for= vendors to ask for out of escrow payment.=C2=A0 Any request should be inte= rpreted as a scam attempt and reported to the Silk Road support team via th= e =E2=80=9Ccontact us=E2=80=9D link on the main site.=C2=A0 We are looking= at several mechanisms for enforcing the ban on OOE transactions, from self= -policing to bounties on offenders.

Together, we can beat the scamme= rs and make the Silk Road market a place where you can buy with confidence= and peace of mind.=C2=A0 If we stay true to our principles of integrity,= virtue, mutual respect and camaraderie that have guided us to this point,= I believe our future is bright and this revolutionary experiment will be= a success!

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CLARIFICATION:=C2=A0 The new policy regarding= out of escrow transactions stated in this address does not affect a vendor= 's ability to ask their customers to finalize their orders and release paym= ent before shipment.=C2=A0 We still strongly recommend that buyers avoid do= ing this at all costs because we will be unable to protect you in case of= fraud.

CLARIFICATION:=C2=A0 This new policy also does not affect ve= ndors who use the market as a platform for Bitcoin exchange.=C2=A0 They may= continue to operate as usual, but again we strongly recommend that you pur= chase bitcoins through a non-anonymous vendor because the market is not set= up to facilitate bitcoin exchange and your money can be stolen without rec= ourse.

FURTHER COMMENTARY: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?t= opic=3D8539.0
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: warweed on January 09, 2012, 04:10 am=
No that's absolute bullshit for guys like me perfect example I sell dig= ital good the only way i make ANYTHING is by volume not by amount my curren= t average price is .14 btc I am going to have to lower that to .07 and you= want to take 15 % on top of that ? common that's a crock of shit and unles= s you want me to put up 4,000 listings for 4,000 different items so i can= increase my front page time i can't have 15% it literally makes me as a se= ller pointless it's like im in china make shoes for a slave driver just to= make my btc=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: PumpkinYeti on January 09, 2012, 04:1= 8 am
The math on the figures...

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AMOUNT=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 CUMUL= AMOUNT=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TOTAL %
10% of the first $50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0$5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 $5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A010%
8.5% of $50 - 150=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $8.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= $13.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 9%
6% of $150 - 300=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$9=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $22.50=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A07.5%=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
3% of $300 - 500=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$6=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $28.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5.7%
2% of $500 - 1000=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $10=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$38.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 3.85%
1.5% for everything over $1000

So if you deal in= amounts $300 and less, you'll definitely be paying more. Amounts $500 and= over you're definitely paying less...

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: =E2=95=AD=E2=88=A9=E2=95=AE=EF=BC=88=EF=B8=B6=EF=B8=BF= =EF=B8=B6=EF=BC=89=E2=95=AD=E2=88=A9=E2=95=AE on January= 09, 2012, 04:23 am
warweed the only people buying your listings are scammers who want to= pump up the stats for there new accounts and silk never said he was guna= charge 15% he said 10% so get over it or u can always go somewhere else
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: caffeine_me on January 09, 2012, 04:3= 0 am
SR you continue to impress me.=C2=A0 I support your change.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: warweed on January 09, 2012, 04:32 am=
You know what i wrote up a big angry letter but I made my point in my= response SR make money good money now they are just trying to line there= pockets ....

if you do this it will kill my business.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: PumpkinYeti on January 09, 2012, 04:3= 4 am
Quote= from: PumpkinYeti on January 09, 2012, 04:18 am
The math on the figures...

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AMOUNT=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 CUMUL AMOUNT=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TOTAL %
10% of the first= $50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A010%
8.5% of $50 - 150= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $8.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$13.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9%
6% of $150 - 300=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$9=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $22.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A07.5%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0
3% of $300 - 500=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$6=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $28.50=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5.7%
2% of= $500 - 1000=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 $10=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$38.50=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3.85%
1.5% for everything over $1000=

So if you deal in amounts $300 and less, you'll definitely be payin= g more. Amounts $500 and over you're definitely paying less...
By my math, $417 is the cutoff if the old percentage was 6.23. If you buy= something below $417, you're paying more than you were. Over $417 and it's= less than you were.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: k1k1 on January 09, 2012, 04:42 am
nice to hear of that SR. all that security changes sounds good. go on= with that!

this is a real great place to be :) i like to be part of= that kind of "revolution".

perhaps for the buyerstats there could= also be an average price of the products listed there,
so the arguments= against warweeds great service here aren't valid anymore ;)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anarcho47 on January 09, 2012, 04:47= am
I have mixed feelings.=C2=A0 Looks like bulk is going to be out of the= picture on SR from now on.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: goldgutted on January 09, 2012, 04:50= am
I think the bigger problem is the amount of scammer sellers. Especially= scam LSD vendors. There needs to be a policy implemented for new sellers,= so that they cannot do out of escrow or else they will be subject to delet= ion.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: wumg00 on January 09, 2012, 04:57 am<= /strong>
=C2=A0I just received news about the fees increase. I have no problem= with the fees increase HOWEVER if i MUST keep all my transactions in escro= w, I am effectively out of business, I cannot afford to put that much money= out of my pocket for a week some times ten days until the customer gets th= eir packages! I would basically be able to sell for one day every two weeks= and then I would have to wait for everyone to get their mail to finalize= and I can reup and sell more. if we are really doing absolutely no out of= escrows, im in the same boat as warweed but for diff reasons, I AM OUT OF= BUSINESS!! Look at all my transactions so far, everyone has gotten their= packages and most were done out of escrow and now I cant serve these same= customers anymore!??!??! I believe it should be up to the buyer if they tr= ust the vendor enough to finalizee early and, if not, to either agree to an= escrow or just dont do business with that vendor!!! I thought this place= was support to support the free market!! well, your killing my free market= !! I HOPE THIS ISNT THE END OF WUMG00 ON SR!!!=C2=A0 :'(
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrDdroMcGillacutty on January 09, 201= 2, 04:59 am
I support SR. I support the site. And I support the ideas and principal= s in which it stands for. I love this this place and believe its for the be= st and more in line w/market conditions. Even if I pay more. SO WHAT!! I'M= LUCKY TO BE HERE AT ALL!! I'll pay to play all day! Thank you. I'd like so= me more. THIS Kool Aid is good!=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: godofall2 on January 09, 2012, 05:05= am
im good with no more OOE stuff i just did that when ppl ask for it so= i dont care. but just want to know how can ppl like BTC buddy and sugarmam= a stay open with the new OOE rule? i myself use BTC Buddy to sell bitcoin= to cash out what i fell is a lot safer and faster then using the other way= s i can. so i dont want to see them gone they help a lot with ppl getting= bitcoin fast and for vendor to cash out.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: momiji on January 09, 2012, 05:09 am<= /strong>
"we will also be implementing a zero tolerance policy toward out of esc= row transactions"

I don't mind banning out of escrow necessarily, bu= t a zero tolerance policy greatly bothers me. Someone could cross the line= accidentally in the future who had no ill will and could be banned instant= ly. This is morally wrong imo. EVERYONE makes mistakes from time to time.= There is no reason not to have a one strike policy.

Without a one= strike policy I foresee honest vendors being banned in the future for stup= id mistakes. It could be a legitimate mistake the vendor made, or it could= be a misunderstanding. For example, I'm selling at bulk rate, but I do not= have it listed under escrow. It is not that I'm not selling it via escrow,= but I put up a private listing for every person who privately contacts me.= While this does not break any rules, it makes me fearful that it could be= misinterpreted as such.

Please SR. Put a one strike rule in place= for vendors. I'm sure everyone here can agree to that.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: PumpkinYeti on January 09, 2012, 05:1= 4 am
Quote= from: momiji on January 09, 2012, 05:09 am
"we will also be implementing a zero tolerance pol= icy toward out of escrow transactions"

I don't mind banning out of= escrow necessarily, but a zero tolerance policy greatly bothers me. Someon= e could cross the line accidentally in the future who had no ill will and= could be banned instantly. This is morally wrong imo. EVERYONE makes mista= kes from time to time. There is no reason not to have a one strike policy.<= br>
Without a one strike policy I foresee honest vendors being banned in= the future for stupid mistakes. It could be a legitimate mistake the vendo= r made, or it could be a misunderstanding. For example, I'm selling at bulk= rate, but I do not have it listed under escrow. It is not that I'm not sel= ling it via escrow, but I put up a private listing for every person who pri= vately contacts me. While this does not break any rules, it makes me fearfu= l that it could be misinterpreted as such.

Please SR. Put a one stri= ke rule in place for vendors. I'm sure everyone here can agree to that.
=

I don't see that quote on his post... where did you get that quo= te? He never said that...
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: godofall2 on January 09, 2012, 05:16= am
Quote= from: PumpkinYeti on January 09, 2012, 05:14 am
Quote from: momiji on January 09, 2012, 05:09 am
"we will also be impleme= nting a zero tolerance policy toward out of escrow transactions"

I= don't mind banning out of escrow necessarily, but a zero tolerance policy= greatly bothers me. Someone could cross the line accidentally in the futur= e who had no ill will and could be banned instantly. This is morally wrong= imo. EVERYONE makes mistakes from time to time. There is no reason not to= have a one strike policy.

Without a one strike policy I foresee hon= est vendors being banned in the future for stupid mistakes. It could be a= legitimate mistake the vendor made, or it could be a misunderstanding. For= example, I'm selling at bulk rate, but I do not have it listed under escro= w. It is not that I'm not selling it via escrow, but I put up a private lis= ting for every person who privately contacts me. While this does not break= any rules, it makes me fearful that it could be misinterpreted as such.
Please SR. Put a one strike rule in place for vendors. I'm sure everyo= ne here can agree to that.

I don't see that quote on his pos= t... where did you get that quote? He never said that...

form= a message SR sent out to vendors



"Once this new schedule go= es into effect, we will also be implementing a zero tolerance policy toward= out of escrow transactions. If you currently offer alternative payment met= hods, out of escrow direct payments, instruct your customers to contact you= directly for other products or offers, or in anyway do business outside of= the escrow system with Silk Road customers, you MUST cease immediately. Co= nsider this your only warning. Your account will be terminated without if= you don't comply. You may post back up contact details where your customer= s can contact you in case of site outage, but you may not instruct them to= contact you there for any other reason."
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: thisisatest on January 09, 2012, 05:2= 4 am
Maybe this is dumb but others might be thinking this...=C2=A0 Are "out= of escrow" and "finalizing early" necessarily the same thing?

I int= erpreted this as SR trying to stop transactions from happening OUTSIDE the= SR payment system altogether (which would remove SR's cut and profit).=C2= =A0 When buyers finalize early, SR still gets their cut, and the vendor at= some point is still held responsible for that delivery and WILL get a rati= ng and review from that transaction.

To me it makes sense to allow= buyers to finalize early, but to ban vendors from requesting direct BTC wa= llet to BTC wallet transfers for product listed on SR.=C2=A0

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: hoffa on January 09, 2012, 05:27 am
How about a protocol for scam bitcoin exchanges? Currently there is zer= o protection. SR is this something you have in the pipeline? Getting this= under control will make SR an even better place!=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: PumpkinYeti on January 09, 2012, 05:2= 9 am
Quote= from: godofall2 on January 09, 2012, 05:16 am
Quote from: PumpkinYeti on January 09, 2012, 05:14 am
Quote from: momiji on January= 09, 2012, 05:09 am
"we will also be implementing a zero tolerance policy toward out of escrow= transactions"

I don't mind banning out of escrow necessarily, but= a zero tolerance policy greatly bothers me. Someone could cross the line= accidentally in the future who had no ill will and could be banned instant= ly. This is morally wrong imo. EVERYONE makes mistakes from time to time.= There is no reason not to have a one strike policy.

Without a one= strike policy I foresee honest vendors being banned in the future for stup= id mistakes. It could be a legitimate mistake the vendor made, or it could= be a misunderstanding. For example, I'm selling at bulk rate, but I do not= have it listed under escrow. It is not that I'm not selling it via escrow,= but I put up a private listing for every person who privately contacts me.= While this does not break any rules, it makes me fearful that it could be= misinterpreted as such.

Please SR. Put a one strike rule in place= for vendors. I'm sure everyone here can agree to that.

I don= 't see that quote on his post... where did you get that quote? He never sai= d that...

form a message SR sent out to vendors


"Once this new schedule goes into effect, we will also be implementing a= zero tolerance policy toward out of escrow transactions. If you currently= offer alternative payment methods, out of escrow direct payments, instruct= your customers to contact you directly for other products or offers, or in= anyway do business outside of the escrow system with Silk Road customers,= you MUST cease immediately. Consider this your only warning. Your account= will be terminated without if you don't comply. You may post back up conta= ct details where your customers can contact you in case of site outage, but= you may not instruct them to contact you there for any other reason."
<= /blockquote>
=

Wow. That's... interesting...
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Trinitron421 on January 09, 2012, 05:= 30 am
I like no more OOE, that is great.
The price to pay is...well people= like me who are buying personal amounts of bud and other drugs (most of th= e time no more than 300) we will be getting the short end of the stick. I= haven't done the math, so I cannot say if the pros are worth the cons.
=
I don't know. I am kind of uneasy about it. I will have to see how this= affect my favorite vendors and how it will change prices. I really do hope= it all works out, in theory it sounds like a wonderful idea. I think there= are still a few kinks to work out, though.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrDdroMcGillacutty on January 09, 201= 2, 05:30 am
Good thing ALL my transactions are within escrow. What do we do about= those pesky btc traders and there 0.00 listings? Now they're are all going= to be .01 listings. How do these new rules affect them and other digital= good traders? Kind of cramping there style and budgets. I guess its for th= e best. Growing pains. I want to be grandfathered in under a better rate fo= r being an AWESOME vendor. HA!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Tryptamine on January 09, 2012, 05:38= am
The commissions should apply to whole orders, not just individual produ= cts; all of my items are under $50 but most of the orders I get are larger,= I shouldn't have to pay a 10% flat tax.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Christy Nugs on January 09, 2012, 05:= 38 am
I am nothing but in agreement with this policy because it has been mine= from the very first day I started here.
I have never asked anyone whoev= er to finalize early and I never will.
While I know this place isn't as= secure as ovdb I know that they r trying and I really do appreciate the an= onymity .
I appreciate it and I am willing to pay for it. My policy has= been from day one to split the cost of the commission with the buyer.
I= am more than happy to do this because I am a business woman. It's all incl= uded in the cost of doing business with the peace of mind that
I receiv= e here.
I grow everything I sell so maybe I have less to lose than those= that buy and resell.=C2=A0 WTF Quit crying!!!
This is long overdue from= what I can tell. I read al kinds of posts that decry "SCAMMER".
I have= recently gone to the trouble of totally changing my os to linux - a comple= tely foreign os to me.
I am in the process of learning this os ( just be= cause of this site) to be safer. As soon as i figure it out ima switch to= virtual.
It isn't fun for=C2=A0 me and ima pulling my hair out but wtf= - u hear me crying? NO!!!
This is a business - don't like it? GTFO.....= .
Cheers SR and btw nice set of balls.=C2=A0 =C2=A0:)

All my love= to the crybaby's;
<3 Christy

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anarcho47 on January 09, 2012, 05:39= am
Like I said I have mixed feelings.=C2=A0 I've been here longer than mos= t, and while I don't think that deserves any special treatment, it's shitty= that new sellers sucking in customers and ripping them off cuts into my ex= isting business model.

I'll still be around, but my prices are going= to have to go up because my float is going to be tied up that much more,= I will not be able to sell any more bulk product, and my current group-buy= will unfortunately be my last :(
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: digitalink on January 09, 2012, 05:40= am
Wow. There are good reasons why I require my customers with less then= 5 transactions, high refund rates or international to finalize early... This is to much power given to the buyers.. Now you just going to put the= vendors out of business. This is NOT a good idea on banning the vendors ri= ght to require a customer to finalize early. You might be effectively remov= ing the scammer vendors, now we'll just have a huge problem with scamming= buyers... which will be worst... what happens when all the vendors go out= of business?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: momiji on January 09, 2012, 05:45 am<= /strong>
Quote= from: thisisatest on January 09, 2012, 05:24 am
Maybe this is dumb but others might be thinki= ng this...=C2=A0 Are "out of escrow" and "finalizing early" necessarily the= same thing?
No they are different. Out of escrow means out of SR or= direct bitcoin to bitcoin. Finalizing early means through SR (commission= and all) but the buyer pays fully before the item is shipped.

If fi= nalizing early becomes banned I will just not sell to new users, which is= something to think about as I'm sure a lot of sellers here would do the sa= me thing after being ripped off.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: amush on January 09, 2012, 05:49 am
I am too sleepy right now to fully grasp this right now.... so I am off= to have a nap and come back to this. First glance and gut reaction is pret= ty that this is going to have an affect on my sales. :/ This might keep peo= ple from buying bu=C3=B8lk from me unless they go over the cut off for when= they will actually will benefit from the change... Dangit....

-Amush
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Trinitron421 on January 09, 2012, 05:= 53 am
Quote= from: momiji on January 09, 2012, 05:45 am
Quote from: thisisatest on January 09, 2012, 05:24 am
Maybe this is dumb but= others might be thinking this...=C2=A0 Are "out of escrow" and "finalizing= early" necessarily the same thing?
=
No they are different. Out of esc= row means out of SR or direct bitcoin to bitcoin. Finalizing early means th= rough SR (commission and all) but the buyer pays fully before the item is= shipped.

If finalizing early becomes banned I will just not sell to= new users, which is something to think about as I'm sure a lot of sellers= here would do the same thing after being ripped off.

or in= anyway do business outside of the escrow system

I was under the imp= ression that this covered early finalization, you are getting paid before= the buyer receives the product therefore you are foregoing escrow.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: mr.ouid on January 09, 2012, 06:00 am=
I'm very happy with the new commission schedule.=C2=A0 I'm not sure wha= t anarcho47 is harping about because the new schedule is a big improvement= for bulk transactions.=C2=A0 I've been doing many, many $1000+ transaction= s and the $6 fee was a bummer.=C2=A0 If he's been avoiding fees by doing al= l bulk transactions in private well shame on him because without Silk Road= where would any of us be?

I do think there should be an exemption= for BTC<-->CASH transactions.=C2=A0 These transactions facilitate th= e real transactions occurring and offer extra security for both buyers and= sellers.=C2=A0 It's in the interest of Silk Road to encourage them as much= as possible.=C2=A0 Plus I don't see how you could charge a fee on transact= ions where people are buying BTC and paying with other methods.=C2=A0 Maybe= you should make the money category free of fees altogether or if you charg= e anything it could be something like 0.5% commensurate with the major exch= anges.=C2=A0 I still don't see how BTC sellers would be able to work throug= h the escrow system so it would really be in the best interest of everyone= to allow them to continue operating as they are.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: momiji on January 09, 2012, 06:01 am<= /strong>
Quote= from: PharmaKarma on January 09, 2012, 05:57 am
Fortunately, there are other options to SR wi= th more becoming available each and every day.
Are there?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anchientlib on January 09, 2012, 06:0= 2 am
I don't have a problem with the changes, but I am curious what the BTC= vendors are gonna do.=C2=A0 I guess the vendors just pay the commission on= exchange.=C2=A0 I do think the escrow is the only way to protect vendors= from getting ripped off though.=C2=A0 Hopefully, it will keep everyone hon= est and chase the trolls away.

Maybe, you could have two different= sellers accounts. One for goods and one for currency exchanges only.=C2=A0= That way you could lower the commission for the currency exchanges.=C2=A0= Just a thought.

Peace 8)

Libby
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 09,= 2012, 06:05 am
Quote= from: wumg00 on January 09, 2012, 04:57 am
I just received news about the fees increase. I= have no problem with the fees increase HOWEVER if i MUST keep all my trans= actions in escrow, I am effectively out of business, I cannot afford to put= that much money out of my pocket for a week some times ten days until the= customer gets their packages! I would basically be able to sell for one da= y every two weeks and then I would have to wait for everyone to get their= mail to finalize and I can reup and sell more. if we are really doing abso= lutely no out of escrows, im in the same boat as warweed but for diff reaso= ns, I AM OUT OF BUSINESS!! Look at all my transactions so far, everyone has= gotten their packages and most were done out of escrow and now I cant serv= e these same customers anymore!??!??! I believe it should be up to the buye= r if they trust the vendor enough to finalizee early and, if not, to either= agree to an escrow or just dont do business with that vendor!!! I thought= this place was support to support the free market!! well, your killing my= free market!! I HOPE THIS ISNT THE END OF WUMG00 ON SR!!!=C2=A0 :'(

Just to be clear, no mention of banning finalizing early was made.= =C2=A0 We recognize the cash-flow needs of vendors and are working to addre= ss these needs while preventing scams arising from finalizing early.=C2=A0= At this point though, while we advise buyers to avoid finalizing early at= all costs, vendors are still free to request it.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 09,= 2012, 06:08 am
Quote= from: godofall2 on January 09, 2012, 05:05 am
im good with no more OOE stuff i just did tha= t when ppl ask for it so i dont care. but just want to know how can ppl lik= e BTC buddy and sugarmama stay open with the new OOE rule? i myself use BTC= Buddy to sell bitcoin to cash out what i fell is a lot safer and faster th= en using the other ways i can. so i dont want to see them gone they help a= lot with ppl getting bitcoin fast and for vendor to cash out.
Another clarification.=C2=A0 Bitcoin exchangers will still be able to ope= rate.=C2=A0 We are working to address the needs of the exchangers and preve= nt fraud on this front as well.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: thisisatest on January 09, 2012, 06:1= 3 am
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 09, 2012, 06:05 am

Just to be clear, no mention of banning= finalizing early was made.=C2=A0 We recognize the cash-flow needs of vendo= rs and are working to address these needs while preventing scams arising fr= om finalizing early.=C2=A0 At this point though, while we advise buyers to= avoid finalizing early at all costs, vendors are still free to request it.=
<= /div>

Don't pack up shop just yet vendors!=C2=A0

I don't= think the cash flow situation should be a weight entirely on SR's shoulder= s, but the vendors should be accounting for this in their "business plan".= =C2=A0 Maybe some sort of compromise can be made between vendors and SR.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: RapidImprovement on January 09, 2012,= 06:24 am
I love how there's an new OVDB section in the forums while all this is= going on haha

As far as the fees go I back warweed completely.
<= br>I'll be the first to admit I owe you some dues for a few quick transfers= , and as a compromise I sent someone a fat gram of MXE to be payed when the= y receive, and when they receive by the weekend you can have 100% profit wh= ich will cover more than what I owe and interest.

SR... it's one thi= ng to ban listings but terminating accounts for this kind of a violation is= ridiculous and dictatorial. I won't be around here much longer if it's goi= ng to turn into the 4th Reich.

-RI

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: kmfkewm on January 09, 2012, 06:27 am=
SR cut the shit imo it is pretty obvious you are just looking for more= money. Which is perfectly fine, running a site like SR is a full time job= and it isn't worth it to do it for free. But you are going to do damage to= the site by implementing this method of getting money. Because nobody is= going to do bulk deals through the escrow system. I have seen deals for 10= grams of crystal LSD, hundreds of thousands of tablets, kilos of MDMA etc= from legit vendors online, even on fairly well known drug forums. There is= no way in fucking hell the people doing deals like that are going to risk= losing to a reverse scammer. The risk has historically been on the custome= r and even though escrow is fine for small deals and really a good model,= it ensures that there will never be bulk sellers. And many sellers with bu= lk don't want to be bothered changing to small orders either.

I sug= gest you tax big vendors on their orders, but don't make them risk losing= out to reverse scammers.

BTW there is an open source bitcoin mix so= ftware being developed that is pretty cool, it decentralizes trust by requi= ring multiple nodes to sign off on the block chain (this is a little known= feature built into the bitcoin spec, but that hasn't afaik been taken adva= ntage of yet). This will allow for decentralized bitcoin mixes where no sin= gle mix operator can steal bitcoins from a client who uses it. It also uses= blind signature mixing so protects from evil mix operators colluding toget= her to deanonymize coin flows. It allows for mix nodes to charge a price fo= r their services too. I think it will quickly turn into a commercial networ= k of mixes when it is done and really be a great way to get truly anonymize= d bitcoins. But anyway the reason I bring this up is that apparently escrow= can be decentralized and still in line with the bitcoin spec, because this= software (Open Transactions...look it up) decentralizes trust with bitcoin= s in a mixing context. Soon I think people will automatically store their= coins constantly mixing through a distributed trust network of mix nodes= / addresses.

You know what you really should work on though, SR?= Implementing more systems to protect from the feds doing name flooding att= acks. They already have the software to aid in name flooding attacks, where= small teams of agents aim to control many personas online to maximize huma= n inteligence 'surface area' in pseudonymous networked environments. This= is scary. The feds could easily mass register accounts and I am sure that= they are doing this. Charging for seller accounts at least puts a price ta= g on the attack instead of making it essentially free to engage in. However= , the feds have a lot of money to spend on intelligence sources so this isn= 't perfect protection by any means.

I think you should go with somew= hat of a vendor recruitment strategy. You don't need a trust rank system li= ke OVDB although a decentralized web of trust would be nice. But what I hav= e been thinking of recently is using a blind signature system to verify the= presence of people on a public drug discussion forum prior to some date in= time. The logic with this is that public drug discussion forums have very= large amounts of registered users with many years of history, and I think= that the feds only recently started fucking with persona management softwa= re and name flooding attacks. The chances that the DEA has a lot of registe= red nyms on bluelight that registered in 2011 is a lot higher than the prob= ability that they have a lot of bluelight accounts from 2009, although they= probably do have some I don't think they mass registered that early. Some= sort of system that can verify a persons account on bluelight while giving= them anonymous credentials would be nice.

The verification can be= done automatically by having the user submit the hash of a message they ha= vn't made yet to the verification server and then giving the verification= server the message hash and link it to the thread it will be put into. Sin= ce only the person with the account will know what they are going to post= before they post it, the verification server can verify that they own the= account in question.

Then the server can issue them a blind signat= ure certificate that can be redeemed for a 'verified' credential on SR. Onl= y allow people who were on public drug forums from some point in time a pri= or to get verified status. Now a verified user can prove that they were a= member on a public drug discussion forum at some point in time, but they= will still have a large crowd size to blend into, particularly if enough= people use the system. This means their verified name wont be linkable to= their name on the public drug discussion forum. The main reason you want= to use blind signatures like this to create unlinkability and a large crow= d size is to protect from having IP address records from public forums used= to deanonymize users. If this were done, verified users would be in the cr= owd of everyone who obtained a blind signature (to the verification server)= or the crowd of all public drug forum users (to any other potential attack= er).

Of course being verified status would narrow you down to someon= e on one of the forums that can get verified status in this way, but people= on those forums are already probably targets already, talking about illega= l drug use openly I hope they all use Tor but I doubt it. If they all used= Tor all the time when using bluelight it would be much easier to recruit= and give them verified status lol. Not just bluelight though but also foru= ms like drugs-forum uk etc. Really you could even verify people had nyms on= other popular forums in the same way, to increase potential crowd size sub= stantially and probably protect even more from nym flooding attacks (after= all I bet DEA has more nyms on bluelight than they do on some random popul= ar forum, on the other hand I bet more silk road users have accounts on blu= elight than any other forum too so it goes both ways).

I think prote= cting from human intelligence name flooding attacks in as many ways as poss= ible is the most important thing that needs to be focused on right now, we= are on the verge of making huge progess in the communications / computer= security / product transfer - interception detection / financial anonymity= etc departments but the one place we are always going to be weak is human= intelligence. And human intelligence has a lot of potential to do a lot of= damage because once an infiltration or compromise takes place ALL of the= nodes networked to the malicious one via the postal system that get packag= es from it are at serious risk of being compromised, and in the mid-distant= future this is going to be the only way the feds have to keep intelligence= flows on the scene going (especially once undetected interceptions are a= thing of the past).=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: DrawkwarD on January 09, 2012, 06:34= am
Yeah I agree with the concept but there has to be an exception for esta= blished vendors or something.=C2=A0 As wumng00=C2=A0 pointed out, a lot of= sellers tread on a thin profit margin and I don't think its fair cut off= their out of escrow income.=C2=A0 I say let the idiots that want to pay ou= t of escrow get screwed out of their money.=C2=A0 It won't matter in the lo= ng run that a few people got scammed but it will matter if good vendors are= forced out of business by this.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: DrawkwarD on January 09, 2012, 06:36= am
Quote= from: RapidImprovement on January 09, 2012, 06:24 am
I love how there's an new OVDB section= in the forums while all this is going on haha

As far as the fees go= I back warweed completely.

I'll be the first to admit I owe you som= e dues for a few quick transfers, and as a compromise I sent someone a fat= gram of MXE to be payed when they receive, and when they receive by the we= ekend you can have 100% profit which will cover more than what I owe and in= terest.

SR... it's one thing to ban listings but terminating account= s for this kind of a violation is ridiculous and dictatorial. I won't be ar= ound here much longer if it's going to turn into the 4th Reich.

-RI<= br>

Agreed
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: wumg00 on January 09, 2012, 07:02 am<= /strong>

[/quote]

Just to be clear, no mention of banning finalizing= early was made.=C2=A0 We recognize the cash-flow needs of vendors and are= working to address these needs while preventing scams arising from finaliz= ing early.=C2=A0 At this point though, while we advise buyers to avoid fina= lizing early at all costs, vendors are still free to request it.
[/quote= ]


=C2=A0THANKS A LOT FOR CLEARING THAT UP SR!!! I APPRECIATE IT= AS I WAS GETTING WORRIED, I LOVE THIS PLACE TOO MUCH TO WANNA EVER LEAVE!!= AND NOW I WONT HAVE TOO! HELL YEAH!!=C2=A0 8)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Christy Nugs on January 09, 2012, 07:= 04 am
Quote= from: PharmaKarma on January 09, 2012, 05:40 am
Quote
All= my love to the crybaby's;
<3 Christy

T-bagging balls you= must mean...

Nope if u got balls hitting u in the face while= u swallow your buddies cock that's your prob.

What I meant is he ha= s a set cause he is gonna have to put up with all the whiner's and just fla= t out bitches sniveling.
I hope he has a full bottle of Tylenol3's to de= al. cause all this shit would give me a headache.

I am selling hash= cause that's all i have that i have atm and i sell it for 3 dollars a gram= under local club price.=C2=A0 I :=C2=A0 package it, use my time to answer= all the questions , pay the SR commission and pay for the shipping at this= rate and am still making money cause i make it myself. I am happy to do th= is because i make money at it and believe that the rest of the country dese= rves to be free and have the same option to buy medicinal's that i have ina= medical state.

This place is great and so was ovdb rip.

=C2= =A0
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Torn on January 09, 2012, 07:34 am
damn, its going to take SR all day just to read kmfkewm's post

H= ow does one prove OOE? Any random dickhead with a tor connection could clai= m it without it ever happening and its not like someone's going to report= a successful OOE in light of this. SR's own catch 22 in the works.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrWhite on January 09, 2012, 08:05 am=
Dont forget additional 4% "hidden" fee for hedging system!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: dr octagon on January 09, 2012, 08:18= am
I might be off the mark or being a little simplistic, but couldn't the= fees have stayed the same, but just have been capped at a maximum to preve= nt large transactions from being unviable?

I think banning out of es= crow is fair enough,=C2=A0 SR deserves their cut.=C2=A0 Early finalization= takes care of cash flow for trusted vendors...

However,=C2=A0 if th= ere is more money being made by SR then we would expect better customer ser= vice and a continuous improvement in security and functionality.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: E=3DdaveC=C2=B2 on January 09, 2012,= 09:05 am
This is going to hurt the vendors and buyers who mostly deal in smaller= purchases like digital downloads and grams of weed. It's better for bulk= so I don't understand the complaint there. I usually don't have hundreds= to spend on an ounce of weed and often just buy small amounts. This seems= like it will really kill the under $50 market.

How is this enforcea= ble anyway? If buyer and seller communicate with PGP SR won't know what the= y're discussing. Transfer funds from one offsite btc wallet to another and= OOE sales can continue undetected. Anonymity, bitcoins, and encryption can= be used to thwart SR just as they're used to protect SR.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: rise_against on January 09, 2012, 09:= 08 am
i'm kinda disappointed in the rate increase, but would be more disappoi= nted if SR wasn't making enough profit to keep this site up.=C2=A0 I hope= you make a ton of money SR, because you deserve it. Without you i'd be 95i= ng it at walmart or Arby's. I may even send you a donation, just to say tha= nks.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: warweed on January 09, 2012, 09:44 am=
Well i cleared some things up with sr and it isn't as terrible as i tho= ught but still with that in mind i still loose a fair amount of money that= up until now was mine Granted I will be creating a ass ton more listings= thou to hopefully increase revenue with that said for me it's not as bad= I lose money because of the small price increase and the unwillingness for= users to buy but at the same time I personally am not looseing much becaus= e all my sales are completely automated but there still is some work i have= to do but for people like DrawkwarD who fill orders by hand for bit pennys= there is ALOT of work involved so any amount no matter how much it is hone= stly takes away from him and sure say on a .50 item sr only steals a nickel= but it add's up quick .. especially with the volume of sales a digital goo= ds vendor does

=C2=A0
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: ColdFrost on January 09, 2012, 09:48= am
There are some interesting time ahead of us all. Hope we work this out.=

-ColdFrost
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: warweed on January 09, 2012, 10:03 am=
I would hope to see ALOT more dev and investment into server and connec= tion sr is just far to slow and i know it can be fast because i have seen= it right after a reboot or when minimal people are on it's quick as shit=
=C2=A0i wonder if sr could run in a cloud ?

anyways yeah if you= r going to take our money at least improve shit i mean i see little tweaks= here and there but i mean for the money that is and is going to come in ..= .

yeah that's all=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: CandyShop on January 09, 2012, 10:04= am
Are you telling me that i can't accept Ukash payments anymore from cust= omers?? >:(
You know how many are struggling with Bitcoins and prefer= paying me trough other paying methods?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Mitanox on January 09, 2012, 10:19 am=
This is the first time I kindof agree with the new system. It lets peop= le stay in escrow and on average I wont pay more then I do now :D Of course= it has its flaws but you cant make everyone happy :P
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 09,= 2012, 10:25 am
Quote= from: CandyShop on January 09, 2012, 10:04 am
Are you telling me that i can't accept Ukash= payments anymore from customers?? >:(
You know how many are struggli= ng with Bitcoins and prefer paying me trough other paying methods?

that's right.=C2=A0 you can sell them bitcoins for ukash and then the= y can buy your item with bitcoins.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: CandyShop on January 09, 2012, 10:33= am
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 09, 2012, 10:25 am

that's right.=C2=A0 you can sell them bit= coins for ukash and then they can buy your item with bitcoins.

Oke that sounds like an alternative than I can just put that on my pr= ofile:
if you need bitcoins.... for ukash to buy my products send me a= PM.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: 0ni0ns on January 09, 2012, 10:49 am<= /strong>
My suggestion would be to price the commission based on transaction vol= ume per seller, rather than the price of each individual item. Look how MtG= ox does their trade fee. Set the fee based on a seller's 30-day trading vol= ume, makes it more fair to sellers who do many small transactions instead= of a few big ones.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SunNin on January 09, 2012, 10:52 am<= /strong>
I hope this change doesn't affect the lower volume vendors that much,= but I also recognize the need for it. I haven't been a victim of a scam my= self, but I've read the horror stories, and if this change makes SR a more= trustworthy place for vendors and buyers, then I'm okay with paying a tiny= bit more for a smaller order.

Most of the established vendors here= are incredibly friendly, interactive with the community, and already go ou= t of their way to resolve problems and include a little extra. So supportin= g them is a no-brainer, but hopefully this change will mean that if I see= a new vendor name pop up, it's also a safer bet than it was before.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: jochem on January 09, 2012, 11:31 am<= /strong>
Bitcoins suck (volatile exchange rate, takes too long to get them, etc)= , so I go out of escrow if I trust the seller. It might leave me as a buyer= unprotected, but in the long both seller and buyer benefit (as neither has= to account for the Bitcoin exchange rate and stuff like that). This new po= licy will change that sellers are going to keep their OOE deals a secret,= but it will definitely not stop them from happening. You could tap in on= PM's, but we'll just encrypt that even more.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: friendlyoutlaw on January 09, 2012,= 11:57 am
This is nothing more than a sizable rate increase under the guise of pr= otecting the customers.

Let's all just be honest here. This isn't ab= out protecting customers one bit, because vendors are still allowed to dema= nd early finalization. I mean, for every transaction that is done entirely= out of escrow, there are probably 100 that are done in escrow but finalize= d early.

The only difference is, SR gets paid for an early finalizat= ion, so there is no real motivation to end that practice.

While I do= n't agree with the price increase (I think the amount SR previously charged= is fair, and with each rate increase they just hasten the arrival of compe= tition), it is certainly SR's right to increase rates, and I do not begrudg= e them for doing so.

But don't treat us like fucking idiots and spi= n some fairytale about how this change is designed to do anything other tha= n put more money in your pockets.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Holly on January 09, 2012, 12:11 pm
Welcome to reality.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You think SR is funded by bake= sales????=C2=A0 I say let them do whatever the fuck they want, my purchase= s are 90% always over 1k so I will benefit from this.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I say if= you dislike the policy vend/consume on another site.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Tircan on January 09, 2012, 12:11 pm<= /strong>
WARNING: Warweed is a conman. His books amount to nothing to SR, and al= l he does here is making himself appear legit by a high number of sales whi= ch keep him safe but allow him to get false reputation which amounts to not= hing.=C2=A0 He scammed me out of more than $1100!!!
Looking back there= were signs from the beginning as nothing he said really added up, all he= wanted was to squeeze more money out of me. Some were blunt lies which gre= w with time, some are documented in the SR messaging system. He kept fabric= ating made up fantasy which shows he knows nothing about what he claims to= know, just to drag more time so he could make some more money from his "eb= ooks business", until after a month he just gave me a fictitious "serial nu= mber" for the shipping. He then ran out of excuses and stopped communicatin= g to me.

I know his real name and location. His real name is 4 googl= es away from his nick. A few skype calls revealed his current address, and= his family members'.
Don't get me wrong, I WON'T SPARE MY MONEY which= you scammed out of me. You'll pay one way or another.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: momiji on January 09, 2012, 12:22 pm<= /strong>
friendlyoutlaw seems to have the balls to say what most of us are proba= bly thinking.

bravo
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 09= , 2012, 12:24 pm
TO SR:
thanks so far for SR plus forum etc, obviously admins/mods ar= e putting in a lot of time and effort {don't know how they are rewarded as= such..unless the increases are to cover their remuneration in which case= perhaps this is going to a good cause...!? thanks anyways}

how abou= t splitting the increase of 2% per fortnight (or 1 week), to give everyone= the time to adjust? so within 30days its back to the 4% increase..?!
everyone:
for the record I don't believe sitting back and expecting SR= to grow by more and more buyers -trading by numbers as discussed in the nu= merous threads this is
risky business and I imagine it becoming more dif= ficult to trade which governments will make things if we don't start thinki= ng more crafty.
my vision is more seller cooperation ++=C2=A0 on a much= bigger scale and i'm thinking global and obviously which undermines LE etc= which i'm 110% for.
if it means expanding on "services" irl and complic= ating the model then so be it.
obviously if there is something buyers sh= ould be doing to facilitate this then sure...why not {apart from paying mor= e quicker which everyone i'm sure would want, the more i earn in my job the= more i'll spend no problem..}

{a little off topic, but hey....ther= e's a lot at stake here}

thanks
TWM
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: fruity on January 09, 2012, 01:45 pm<= /strong>
lol, did this thread make the bitcoin exchange rate plumet?

see= ms 2 hours after SR started this thread, the value has taken a good beating.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrDdroMcGillacutty on January 09, 201= 2, 02:15 pm
Quote= from: Holly on January 09, 2012, 12:11 pm
Welcome to reality.=C2=A0 You think SR is funded by= bake sales????=C2=A0 I say let them do whatever the fuck they want, my pur= chases are 90% always over 1k so I will benefit from this.=C2=A0 I say if= you dislike the policy vend/consume on another site.

You ar= e so correct and very nicely put. Short ,sweet and to the point.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: =E2=95=AD=E2=88=A9=E2=95=AE=EF=BC=88=EF=B8=B6=EF=B8=BF= =EF=B8=B6=EF=BC=89=E2=95=AD=E2=88=A9=E2=95=AE on January= 09, 2012, 03:10 pm
Quote= from: PharmaKarma on January 09, 2012, 02:14 pm
Quote from: friendlyoutlaw on January 09, 2012, 11:57= am
This is nothin= g more than a sizable rate increase under the guise of protecting the custo= mers.

Let's all just be honest here. This isn't about protecting cus= tomers one bit, because vendors are still allowed to demand early finalizat= ion. I mean, for every transaction that is done entirely out of escrow, the= re are probably 100 that are done in escrow but finalized early.

The= only difference is, SR gets paid for an early finalization, so there is no= real motivation to end that practice.

While I don't agree with the= price increase (I think the amount SR previously charged is fair, and with= each rate increase they just hasten the arrival of competition), it is cer= tainly SR's right to increase rates, and I do not begrudge them for doing= so.

But don't treat us like fucking idiots and spin some fairytale= about how this change is designed to do anything other than put more money= in your pockets.

Great post.=C2=A0 In a way I welcome it bec= ause we will just pass on this NEW EXTRAORDINARY tax increase short-term.= =C2=A0 This provides just the motivation for similar boards to be establish= ed with reasonable and not greedy revenue based models in the long-term.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0

I was good with everything but the 40% increase in SR sal= es fees.=C2=A0

And stop fucking feeling sorry like this is so much= work and hard for SR to do and for their efforts, they make nothing.=C2=A0= SR leadership are multimillionaires by now and will only grow richer after= this move.=C2=A0 Don't forget this people.=C2=A0

Also, doesn't SR= make enough manipulating the BTC market as it is?

wow what= a negative loser u are. u dont just suck as a vendor u suck as a human bei= ng. hopefully these new "similar boards" get created quick so losers like= u can take ur negativity elsewhere
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: F104 on January 09, 2012, 03:14 pm
Quote= from: k1k1 on January 09, 2012, 04:42 am
perhaps for the buyerstats there could also be an= average price of the products listed there,

I have long thought= that "average purchase amount" in the buyer stats would be a HUGE help. Sa= y you're a vendor looking at two buyers with equal=C2=A0 quality/responsibi= lity but with these difference: Buyer A 30 transactions, average amount $40= or Buyer B 20 transactions, average amount $200. Which would you feel more= warm n fuzzy about?

I apologize for being off topic.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Megatherium on January 09, 2012, 04:0= 1 pm
Good thing on the FE front, although it doesn't even affect me. The mon= ey exchange vendors are also adressed, perfect.
I support this move, bec= ause I'm support this movement, institution, rebellion, whatchamacallit bot= h financially and idiologically.
As to the fear of clamping down on indi= vidual listing: I think that's totally unreasonable as the guys are probabl= y totally see that offers more and better options to both buyers and seller= s (mixing & matching) and stays inside of the escrow system.
I see= how the burdgen of tax can be dumped on the seller (and probably will in= a lot of cases, I'll probably try to split it personally). You may conside= r it kind of a dick move but this is the price people will have to pay both= for the power of reducing scamming and ultimately for the privilege that= SR is in itself. Even if you have good connections you'll never have the= variety of selection as on SR and if you basically don't have any local co= nnecs at all then SR is a godsend for you. If you consider this a gamechang= er then you have to adapt to it (e.g. I hand out minor freebies for larger= transactions both as an incentive and giving the customer more bang for hi= s bucks.) or drop out. SR is IMHO by no means the cutthroat capitalism that= we see on wall street (I think we'll never see SR bail out a vendor ;)) an= d has virtues that the market out there as lost.

All glory to SR (an= d I love the thread title, hopefully we won't see to many 'road constructio= n ahead' and 'detour'-signs ;)). \o/
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: nomad bloodbath on January 09, 2012,= 04:04 pm
10% is a little high for under 50$

Just stating my opinion.
<= br>:)
nomad bloodbath
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: ChillyP on January 09, 2012, 04:24 pm=
Quote= from: nomad bloodbath on January 09, 2012, 04:04 pm
10% is a little high for under 50$

Maybe even a little greedy?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Julio on January 09, 2012, 04:28 pm
So if I use silkroad to tumble my btc from transactions which never ori= ginated on this site I will be pegged as someone who goes out of escrow and= my account canceled?

Also what is the standard of proof? Can anoth= er vendor make a fake account and say you did business out of escrow with= them? What happens to the btc in the account, does SR keep it?

The= re are so many unanswered question and potential for abuse. Don't get me wr= ong I'm fine with the policy but there needs to be clearer guidelines.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: GORDENRAMSEY on January 09, 2012, 04:= 30 pm
Quote= from: friendlyoutlaw on January 09, 2012, 11:57 am
This is nothing more than a sizable rate= increase under the guise of protecting the customers.

Let's all jus= t be honest here. This isn't about protecting customers one bit, because ve= ndors are still allowed to demand early finalization. I mean, for every tra= nsaction that is done entirely out of escrow, there are probably 100 that= are done in escrow but finalized early.

The only difference is, SR= gets paid for an early finalization, so there is no real motivation to end= that practice.

While I don't agree with the price increase (I think= the amount SR previously charged is fair, and with each rate increase they= just hasten the arrival of competition), it is certainly SR's right to inc= rease rates, and I do not begrudge them for doing so.

But don't tre= at us like fucking idiots and spin some fairytale about how this change is= designed to do anything other than put more money in your pockets.

BRAVO!!!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: wscs811s on January 09, 2012, 04:30= pm
We're buying and selling things that are still illegal in most countrie= s, so I'm not going to complain if the creator of it all wants a piece of= the action for all of this risk. I'm happy to pay extra for the convenienc= e that the site provides. It also connects me to quality product I would ne= ver have access to in my area of the US. Keep up the awesome work.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Sparetale on January 09, 2012, 05:41= pm
I believe the unique aspects of SR should be simply be appreciated and= accept that cost increase are a way of life today.
Like any other avail= able amusement, all costs will eventually increase as it does with everythi= ng else in the world right now.
Cool to have a venue like this to acces= s the world wide RX. Thanx
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: RapidImprovement on January 09, 2012,= 06:49 pm
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 09, 2012, 06:05 am
Quote from: wumg00 on January 09, 2012, 04:57 am
I just received news ab= out the fees increase. I have no problem with the fees increase HOWEVER if= i MUST keep all my transactions in escrow, I am effectively out of busines= s, I cannot afford to put that much money out of my pocket for a week some= times ten days until the customer gets their packages! I would basically= be able to sell for one day every two weeks and then I would have to wait= for everyone to get their mail to finalize and I can reup and sell more.= if we are really doing absolutely no out of escrows, im in the same boat= as warweed but for diff reasons, I AM OUT OF BUSINESS!! Look at all my tra= nsactions so far, everyone has gotten their packages and most were done out= of escrow and now I cant serve these same customers anymore!??!??! I belie= ve it should be up to the buyer if they trust the vendor enough to finalize= e early and, if not, to either agree to an escrow or just dont do business= with that vendor!!! I thought this place was support to support the free= market!! well, your killing my free market!! I HOPE THIS ISNT THE END OF= WUMG00 ON SR!!!=C2=A0 :'(

Just to be clear, no mention of= banning finalizing early was made.=C2=A0 We recognize the cash-flow needs= of vendors and are working to address these needs while preventing scams= arising from finalizing early.=C2=A0 At this point though, while we advise= buyers to avoid finalizing early at all costs, vendors are still free to= request it.

No mention of banning for FINALIZING EARLY?? wha= t about OUT OF ESCROW? Your PM says my account will be TERMINATED.

W= hat about donations? I'm currently non-profit!

Once again this is ri= diculous and dictatorial.

As a compromise for warweed orders from= .01-2.5 BTC can be %2 or something related.

-RI

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: oso on January 09, 2012, 07:09 pm
Quote= from: 0ni0ns on January 09, 2012, 10:49 am
My suggestion would be to price the commission bas= ed on transaction volume per seller, rather than the price of each individu= al item. Look how MtGox does their trade fee. Set the fee based on a seller= 's 30-day trading volume, makes it more fair to sellers who do many small= transactions instead of a few big ones.

I agree with 0ni0ns= on this one. I don't do anything out of escrow, but there have been times= where someone was a couple BTC short and I said sure just send them direct= . Now I will have to make a custom listing each time, this takes away from= my friendliness towards buyers. It will become a lot of work making custom= listings for everyone that needs to send me a few extra BTC for any overag= es on shipping or like I stated being 1-2 BTC short of a listing.

I= think the new method should work fine, but I am worried about my anonymity= if I can't funnel all my BTC from my vendor acct. to another acct to get= out of SR. I just hope the NO TOLERANCE policy for OOE transactions will= not be automated and will come down to being peer reviewed per case. I mea= n if your gonna do this to us, you should increase the amount of employees= to handle all the case by case transactions you are expelling.

Oth= erwise it's just more work for us trusted vendors, for less money?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: BashfulBetty on January 09, 2012, 08:= 11 pm
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 09, 2012, 06:05 am
Quote from: wumg00 on January 09, 2012, 04:57 am
I just received news ab= out the fees increase. I have no problem with the fees increase HOWEVER if= i MUST keep all my transactions in escrow, I am effectively out of busines= s, I cannot afford to put that much money out of my pocket for a week some= times ten days until the customer gets their packages! I would basically= be able to sell for one day every two weeks and then I would have to wait= for everyone to get their mail to finalize and I can reup and sell more.= if we are really doing absolutely no out of escrows, im in the same boat= as warweed but for diff reasons, I AM OUT OF BUSINESS!! Look at all my tra= nsactions so far, everyone has gotten their packages and most were done out= of escrow and now I cant serve these same customers anymore!??!??! I belie= ve it should be up to the buyer if they trust the vendor enough to finalize= e early and, if not, to either agree to an escrow or just dont do business= with that vendor!!! I thought this place was support to support the free= market!! well, your killing my free market!! I HOPE THIS ISNT THE END OF= WUMG00 ON SR!!!=C2=A0 :'(

Just to be clear, no mention of= banning finalizing early was made.=C2=A0 We recognize the cash-flow needs= of vendors and are working to address these needs while preventing scams= arising from finalizing early.=C2=A0 At this point though, while we advise= buyers to avoid finalizing early at all costs, vendors are still free to= request it.

It seems to me that the best way to keep everybo= dy happy would be to bring "out of escrow" sales out of the shadows.=C2=A0= There are honest and legitimate business reasons to bypass the escrow syst= em, and these needs must be addressed.=C2=A0 Using early finalization is a= clumsy, awkward workaround to this problem.

Allow vendors with a hi= gh enough feedback rating and sales history to earn the right to add "out= of escrow" as an option when listing a product.=C2=A0

Now, out of= escrow sales don't bypass the SR fee structure or feedback system.=C2=A0= SR revenues increase.=C2=A0 Scammers will be exposed via feedback, and cou= ld lose the privilege of bypassing escrow.=C2=A0 There is now no legitimate= reason (no, fee avoidance is not a legitimate reason) to bypass the SR sys= tem; there should be little opposition to banning these deals.

Such= listings would have a big, bold print disclaimer automatically added to th= e top, so even newbie buyers would know the risks they take by buying out= of escrow.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

Some vendors may be able to offer lo= wer prices for out of escrow deals; this benefits both buyers and seller.= =C2=A0 If this happens, it might be worth setting things up so listings hav= e both an "in escrow" and "out of escrow" price.=C2=A0 Again, this benefits= everybody.

I really can't see a downside to this.=C2=A0 Does anyone= else?=C2=A0 Anyone?=C2=A0 Anyone?=C2=A0 Beuller?=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: rise_against on January 09, 2012, 08:= 12 pm
maybe there needs to be a sliding scale that after you've become a long= -time vendor (paid your dues) that your taxed percentage starts to decrease= with the more sales you make.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: nucleo on January 09, 2012, 08:57 pm<= /strong>
SR becomes greedy and starts to act like a little chief, here it comes!= Your demagogic version of the changes smell fishy to me but you might work= hard so you might deserve a little too even if you are now able to transfo= rm this little into a big one, a big juicy profit! You better save the most= you can coz you might need it all one of these days.. perhaps to buy back= your freedom... The revolution you are talking abt smells fishy too as the= re is actually some war going on under your own roof you are not caring abt= , legit vendors are being attacked by trolls and other envious cunts, some= other vendors and buyers alike are continuing their exaction totally unpun= ished and you SR admin you are still ignoring it. You should clean your doo= r footstep before trying to put us asleep with your soporific shit and your= arbitrary way, I knew you partial once and i still remember it. What about= making SR less accessible to the "pecus vulgus", to make it more difficult= to register as both vendor and buyer for SR vendors and buyers own good an= d benefit to keep away the crooks and other shit alike that can only contam= inate and spoil it all for bad.... What abt taking action against those who= are perpetrating shit scams here atm under your SR nose, don't you read al= l the interesting threads reporting on them, bringing them to the light of= shame unveiling their petty tricks, vendors and buyers alike. It is time,= definitely, for some cleansing before more legit vendors and buyers who ar= e tired to be ill-treated decide to retire from the arena coz you are going= to end up making money on real dirty money, what an achievement..!!! I amp= lify it obviously but there is such a lack of true Spirit atm on SR, i wish= you can implement some new rules to facilitate=C2=A0 the good work of the= good vendors, to protect them as much as they deserve it to make sure they= will remain within SR ranks and not at the contrary to be constraint to qu= it as it is already the case.
I had such a great impression of SR when= I first came, i gotta confess that the only positive aspect that remains= in my mind now is only about the very good people I came across...of a ver= y small community which makes a H of a difference.
With much respect to= the true Spirits of this small community and to all the vendors of the oth= er communities, I wish you to stand up for your rights and to fight to get= the best of it because without you SR would worth shit.. sorry I would hav= e stayed if only the Spirit was true...

=C2=A0 . n .
=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Asbury on January 09, 2012, 09:07 pm<= /strong>
i'm afraid it may be time to start compiling seller keys and emails=C2= =A0 :o
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Laughing Man on January 09, 2012, 09:= 37 pm
Those percentages seem greedy to me. I realize it costs money to mainta= in the server and site, and on top of that SR should get paid for taking th= e (relatively small) risk of doing this but even with a flat 3% fee across= the board he would be making bank.

Tens if not hundreds of transac= tions happen daily, even if he was only making $0.60 per transaction (a $20= purchase) with 100 transactions a day would equate to $60 a day, or $1800= in a 30 day month. That's a pretty big check for just maintaining the site= . I may be overestimating the average purchase price or the amount of daily= purchases and SR can dispute this, but I feel that I'm not too far off.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrWhite on January 09, 2012, 10:37 pm=
There are currently 350-550# transactions daily on SR.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 09, 2012, 10:= 57 pm
I want to weigh in on this matter of considerable importance, I just ha= ve to get my orders out before I can sit down and type out everything I hav= e to say about this announcement.

Paperchasing
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Laughing Man on January 09, 2012, 11:= 00 pm
Quote= from: MrWhite on January 09, 2012, 10:37 pm
There are currently 350-550# transactions daily= on SR.

If that's true, assuming $10 average purchase (I thin= k this is an underestimate tbh) at 3% fee SR would be making $3150-4950 mon= thly.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: watertiger on January 09, 2012, 11:04= pm
Quote= from: MrWhite on January 09, 2012, 10:37 pm
There are currently 350-550# transactions daily= on SR.

If so, then this place is making a lot of cash for th= e operator. If you assume an average sales price per transaction of $100,= the new commission structure will generate better than $100K (gross) per= month for SR.

Kudos to him as far as I'm concerned. He's come up wi= th the proverbial better mousetrap and is making a shitload of money as a= result. Like it or hate it, capitalism works.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: onestopshop on January 09, 2012, 11:0= 5 pm
It was bound to happen sooner or later the success of SR =3D more greed= from the owner(s)...from a customer point of view with regards to purchase= protection nothing has changed in my opinion finalising early is EXACTLY= THE SAME as going out of escrow the only difference being SR doesn't get= it's cut.

NOW the strict enforcement of finalising early over OOE= will lead to EVEN MORE problems then out of escrow orders ever could!
=

smaller orders =3D less profits + more work + security risk for ven= dors so why tax them more? people buying large quantities should be taxed= more lets face it the majority that buy bulk are probably going to resell= whether for profit or to recoup their money back...very few are buying to= "stock up"...

It's obvious that a majority [70-80%] of transactions= are under the $50 limit on SR...even assuming half of transactions done on= SR are under that's a big pay day with this new tax increase

I thin= k that this whole pricing revision was purposefully done the WRONG WAY ROUN= D...
There's been countless numbers of threads where people have complai= ned about the increased prices for drugs on SR in comparison to IRL, but mo= st of the time the price increase has been justified because of convenience= and additional security for the consumer.

HOw long will this be the= case...?

Oh, and seeing as how this is going to bring $1000's of= extra revenue can we AT LEAST have a reduction in the Seller Account start= up fee?

I think the majority of people would support the new fee sy= stem SR but you need to seriously rethink the % fees for $50-100 sales...
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Asbury on January 09, 2012, 11:33 pm<= /strong>
to the blackmarket!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: onestopshop on January 10, 2012, 12:1= 3 am
=C2=A0
Quote from: Asbury on January 09, 2012, 11:33 pm
to the blackmarket!

Good idea= r.e compiling of seller keys + emails i did this when i signed up in case= there was a mass takedown of the site..a few months in and now my concern= is it'll turn into a $$$ chasing hell like ebay or Paypal..
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Trinitron421 on January 10, 2012, 12:= 17 am
I typed out a huge fucking post and the forum went out as I went to pos= t it....oh well I don't even want to put in the effort to type it out again= .

short of it is: I'll deal with it, but I won't like it. SR didn't= even address the problem I thought he would, early finalization. So all in= all, this is a pointless price increase for me with no added security. If= people want to go OOE, they are going to do it anyway. I didn't even think= it was a big point of scams to begin with, for me and most buyers it was= a non-issue. I believe all sellers should be required to use delivery conf= irmation, and not allowed to request early finalization in the guise of pro= tecting themselves from scam buyers, or re-upping. Jesus Christ, if you can= 't afford to wait a week at the most to get your money to reup, you have th= e option of doing a low volume of sales until you build up enough to have= a firm hold.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Horizons on January 10, 2012, 12:21= am
I'm worried about this. I live in a peripheral country with a slow post= al service. Early finalizing and out-of-escrow (with trusted vendors only,= of course) are practically a necessity for people in my situation due to= the delay in receiving the products. After all, it's not fair to the vendo= r to keep the money locked in escrow for the better part of two months just= because my country has a shitty postal service. Also, this gives the buyer= too much power without balancing it out for the vendors; which will cause= vendors to be extremely weary of new buyers, and generally avoid them. Bes= ides, I suspect that the vast majority of transactions done in SR are small= value transactions, though obviously SR knows that better than I do.
I'm a buyer, so I'm one of the people this change is meant to protect. Bu= t I'm a bit afraid of what its actual consequences might be. I hope I'm jus= t being my old worried self and the change is positive.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: CoryTrevor on January 10, 2012, 12:26= am
I have investors who will pay $5-10k to for a site set up like this. An= yone feel like taking me up on this can send me a message.

Also, Fin= alizing early is not out of escrow. SR is just making sure he gets his cut,= this has shit to do with actually protecting the buyers.

Also, How= about actually maintaining the site and forums and keeping them up.=C2=A0= There are WAY to many times when I am unable to get on to process orders.= This looks poorly on me and my business, and quite frankly makes you look= like shit that you can't even keep your site up.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: dance4life on January 10, 2012, 12:34= am
SR -

Why just not implement something like charging vendors base= d on average monthly sales?=C2=A0 Maybe I sell 10 things at $50 while someo= ne sells 1 thing at $500.=C2=A0 What is the difference honestly when we are= still selling the same amount in the month but getting taxed different amo= unts?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Laughing Man on January 10, 2012, 12:= 41 am
Quote= from: Trinitron421 on January 10, 2012, 12:17 am
I typed out a huge fucking post and the foru= m went out as I went to post it....oh well I don't even want to put in the= effort to type it out again.

short of it is: I'll deal with it, bu= t I won't like it. SR didn't even address the problem I thought he would,= early finalization. So all in all, this is a pointless price increase for= me with no added security. If people want to go OOE, they are going to do= it anyway. I didn't even think it was a big point of scams to begin with,= for me and most buyers it was a non-issue. I believe all sellers should be= required to use delivery confirmation, and not allowed to request early fi= nalization in the guise of protecting themselves from scam buyers, or re-up= ping. Jesus Christ, if you can't afford to wait a week at the most to get= your money to reup, you have the option of doing a low volume of sales unt= il you build up enough to have a firm hold.

That's the other= thing, he is charging all these fees and can't even manage to keep his sit= es up and responsive. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the concept of SR and simi= lar sites and realize it takes money to keep them going but these increased= fees seem like nothing but greed to me based on the math I've done.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrWhite on January 10, 2012, 01:54 am=
yap,

10% + 4% hedge is what cost transactions under $50.
Nic= e cut SR.......
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: onestopshop on January 10, 2012, 01:5= 4 am
Quote= from: freddieisdead on January 10, 2012, 01:19 am
a trend like this could lead the users of= silk road to find alternative means to achieve their ends. However, I will= play ball for now and just hope that our awesome vendors stick around as= well.

Exactly, it's the least we can do..until another .onio= n site comes along with a full escrow system.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: jackstraw on January 10, 2012, 02:03= am
This site has truly exploded.....I got here when there were already som= e 8,000 members.=C2=A0 Today the last time I checked it was well over 100,0= 00 and growing faster everyday it seems.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Tremendous growth and= also tremendous profits.=C2=A0 To try and frame this price increase as not= hing more than making us safer and protecting us from scammers is pure Bull= shit.....it's all about making more $$$ for SR.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Reminds me of= a quote from The Outlaw Josey Wales......=C2=A0 =C2=A0SR=C2=A0 "Don't Piss= down my back and tell me it's Raining".=C2=A0 =C2=A0
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 10,= 2012, 02:17 am
Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions.=C2=A0 One suggest= ion I especially like is the one about commission being affected by trade= volume.=C2=A0 To those of you that are either supportive of the change, or= have faith in what I am doing regardless of whether you see the point or= not, thank you for your support!=C2=A0 I have done everything I can to ear= n that trust and I cherish it.

To those of you chalking my actions= up to pure greed and ignoring the context for the changes, I say shame on= you.=C2=A0 When have I lied?=C2=A0 When have I cheated or stolen from anyo= ne here?=C2=A0 When have I treated anyone unfairly?=C2=A0 When have I lead= you astray?=C2=A0 Why do you turn on me now when I have poured my heart an= d soul into this community and project?

10% on $50 orders?=C2=A0 We= are talking about an extra $1.88!=C2=A0 A $10 order?=C2=A0 An extra 38 cen= ts!=C2=A0 Do you think this site built itself?=C2=A0 Do you think it runs= itself?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what goes on behind the scenes to keep= this going?=C2=A0 Do you have any idea the risk the people operating this= site are taking?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what we've been through to get= here today?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what it's going to take to get thro= ugh the next year?

Whether you like it or not, I am the captain of= this ship.=C2=A0 You are here voluntarily and if you don't like the rules= of the game, or you don't trust your captain, you can get off the boat.=C2= =A0 For those that stay, we at Silk Road will continue to do everything in= our power to keep this market running smoothly and safely, and thank you= again for your support!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Horizons on January 10, 2012, 02:25= am
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am
To those of you chalking my actions up to pur= e greed and ignoring the context for the changes, I say shame on you.=C2=A0= When have I lied?=C2=A0 When have I cheated or stolen from anyone here?=C2= =A0 When have I treated anyone unfairly?=C2=A0 When have I lead you astray?= =C2=A0 Why do you turn on me now when I have poured my heart and soul into= this community and project?

In my head, I read this paragrap= h in the voice of Marlon Brando as Don Vito Corleone.
Don't be offended= by this remark: I don't think there exists higher praise in organized crim= e than being compared to this guy.

Here's to hoping these changes tu= rn out for the best. :)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: watertiger on January 10, 2012, 02:32= am
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am

To those of you chalking my actions up to= pure greed and ignoring the context for the changes, I say shame on you.= =C2=A0 When have I lied?=C2=A0 When have I cheated or stolen from anyone he= re?=C2=A0 When have I treated anyone unfairly?=C2=A0 When have I lead you= astray?=C2=A0 Why do you turn on me now when I have poured my heart and so= ul into this community and project?

Amen to this! SR is not= pretending to be anyone's friend here or to be an altruist building an ent= erprise that serves the common good. His site serves a great and useful pur= pose for many of us and if he pockets $100,00 a month (or more as time goes= on) as a capitalist, more power to him. As long as somebody never claims= to be anything more than a capitalist entrepreneur looking to cash in, you= can't accuse him of being any kind of hypocrite for changing the rules to= make more profit.

I do feel a slight twinge for any anarchist/up th= e system types who think (or once thought) that this place was something mo= re -- some kind kind of anti-establishment, counterculture enterprise that= was as much about community and living free from rules as it was profit --= but I don't think there were ever too many of those anarcho/utopians in an= y event.

This place fills a need and does it pretty well. As long as= SR doesn't pretend to be trying to do any more than that, let him make as= much cash as the capitalist system allows.


Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: freddieisdead on January 10, 2012, 02= :46 am
Perhaps my response and those by some others who also attacked with has= te shows greed in itself. Reflecting upon the value of this service and how= I hadn't even considered such a thing five months ago is really still mind= blowing. Fans of mind altering substances across the globe can utilize tec= hnology to easily network with like minded individuals anonymously and seem= ingly bypass police force by governments who are overstepping their boundar= ies.

My only fear with the policy change is the loss of certain ven= dors/products which is yet to be seen but I admit to overstepping my bounda= ries. Silk Road is awesome and every day it stays up and running makes me= smile.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: mito on January 10, 2012, 02:48 am
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am
Whether you like it or not, I am the captain= of this ship.=C2=A0

Oh Captain my Captain!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 :P= =20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: goldgutted on January 10, 2012, 03:19= am
I predict that this will result in an increase in scammers. As more and= more vendors say fuck it, since it has become less profitable to use SR du= e to these new fees, they will scam as much money as they can, and then run= with it.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Trinitron421 on January 10, 2012, 04:= 22 am
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am
Thank you everyone for your comments and sugg= estions.=C2=A0 One suggestion I especially like is the one about commission= being affected by trade volume.=C2=A0 To those of you that are either supp= ortive of the change, or have faith in what I am doing regardless of whethe= r you see the point or not, thank you for your support!=C2=A0 I have done= everything I can to earn that trust and I cherish it.

To those of= you chalking my actions up to pure greed and ignoring the context for the= changes, I say shame on you.=C2=A0 When have I lied?=C2=A0 When have I che= ated or stolen from anyone here?=C2=A0 When have I treated anyone unfairly?= =C2=A0 When have I lead you astray?=C2=A0 Why do you turn on me now when I= have poured my heart and soul into this community and project?

10%= on $50 orders?=C2=A0 We are talking about an extra $1.88!=C2=A0 A $10 orde= r?=C2=A0 An extra 38 cents!=C2=A0 Do you think this site built itself?=C2= =A0 Do you think it runs itself?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what goes on be= hind the scenes to keep this going?=C2=A0 Do you have any idea the risk the= people operating this site are taking?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what we'= ve been through to get here today?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what it's goi= ng to take to get through the next year?

Whether you like it or not,= I am the captain of this ship.=C2=A0 You are here voluntarily and if you= don't like the rules of the game, or you don't trust your captain, you can= get off the boat.=C2=A0 For those that stay, we at Silk Road will continue= to do everything in our power to keep this market running smoothly and saf= ely, and thank you again for your support!

Silk Road, thank= you for everything you have done. Just this post has inspired me to have= even more confidence in you, and I especially like the captain analogy.
Fuck the haters.
Do you realize what would happen to this man if he= were ever caught?
He would be hung up by a fucking string, he and his= cohorts would be labeled as terrorist sent to Guantanamo bay and never hea= rd of again. Doomed to be tortured the rest of their life. To think that so= me of you could even bitch and moan about being able to make money and rece= ive your drugs anonymously and securely ? Would you be willing to pay the= price this man is so that bitches like you could do so?

Sorry, got= a little fired up there. There is a HUGE difference between constructive= criticism about the new policies, and suggesting alternatives to be consid= ered and flat out accusations of SR being a greedy liar.

Hell, I cou= ld care less if he's a greedy man. After pondering on it, I am willing to= pay an extra $1.88 to fill his pockets so that I and many others can conti= nue to use this service.

That's my .02btc. Again, I would like to th= ank all of our wonderful vendors, moderators, and admins who are willing to= risk their livelihoods to supply us with our medicine, and our recreationa= l fun.

Stay safe and take care,
Trinitron421

[edit] I rea= lly do hope I don't end up eating my own words.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: oppyate on January 10, 2012, 04:33 am=
SR is truly a remarkable concept and the ideas and concepts were forged= by someone that as it stands unfortunately was not me, was not the newbie= or the high rolling Vendor. If it was that easy to run a Battleship like= this, then I guess I would have started up my own site 60 or 90 days ago.=

What I'm saying is that there is always a Mob Mentality or Mutiny= Type of Aggression when new rules/laws/orders are in-acted. As we speak,= there are probably 2-3 other sites that will try to spring up, but will di= e on the Vine. There is only one Ketchup, one McDonald's and one Kleenex.= How may copy cats of Ebay have come and gone?

IMHO, I consider myse= lf lucky to be able to Buy High Quality Weed or H that I would or could Not= ever find no matter how hard I looked in the metropolis I live. The only= thing I would ask of The Captain...is that you become more accountable for= The Vendors that break rank and put the screws to the newbie. If Requiring= Escrow is going to do it..than let's see how it works. Also, while I comme= nd Capitalism..part of a growing companies responsibility is R & D. Res= earch and Development. I will accept that The Captain will do for me what= is in the best interests of his Crew and Ship.

oppy
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: dutchshop on January 10, 2012, 05:40= am

Hi,

i understand and follow the rules of payment of silkroad= fee in escrow but i have one question and that is that i have one customer= who i do a resend of an item that he didn't received in escrow before.
=
Is an special custom resend list allowed?

Is releasing escrow ea= rly allowed?

Greets DutchShop,
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SuperDimitri on January 10, 2012, 05:= 44 am
I didn't read every page, but it seems like a mixed review from the sel= lers.
I think disallowing OOE will eventually eliminate most scammers.= And I like this idea.
Although, prices will now have to go up about 10= -15%, of already high prices, to make up the difference.
But...as The= Captain said, it takes a lot to make this all possible! I appreciate all= the hard work, time, and $$ that goes into SR.

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: towelie on January 10, 2012, 06:52 am=
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am
Whether you like it or not, I am the captain= of this ship.=C2=A0 You are here voluntarily and if you don't like the rul= es of the game, or you don't trust your captain, you can get off the boat.= =C2=A0 For those that stay, we at Silk Road will continue to do everything= in our power to keep this market running smoothly and safely, and thank yo= u again for your support!

I'm staying on the boat.
Conve= nience, safety, and selection of quality products is more than worth a coup= le extra dollars to me.

Thank you SR,

T
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: gharyeee on January 10, 2012, 01:59= pm
Quote= from: towelie on January 10, 2012, 06:52 am
Quote from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am
Whether you like it or no= t, I am the captain of this ship.=C2=A0 You are here voluntarily and if you= don't like the rules of the game, or you don't trust your captain, you can= get off the boat.=C2=A0 For those that stay, we at Silk Road will continue= to do everything in our power to keep this market running smoothly and saf= ely, and thank you again for your support!

I'm staying on the= boat.
Convenience, safety, and selection of quality products is more th= an worth a couple extra dollars to me.

Thank you SR,

T

Exactly my feelings on this subject. The fact that the Silk Road ca= n give us safe access to these products should not be overlooked.

Ve= ndors strive to have great products and prices, and buyers want great produ= cts at low prices. But without this open
marketplace I, for one, would= never have had the same level of safety, convenience and selection.
My hope is this will help lead to increased security on the back-end.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: HughBerto on January 10, 2012, 02:53= pm
SR -
the "State of the Road Address"=C2=A0 link on the welcome page= takes you to the thread "new .Onion url" fyi

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: jochem on January 10, 2012, 03:09 pm<= /strong>
Quote= from: oppyate on January 10, 2012, 04:33 am
What I'm saying is that there is always a Mob Men= tality or Mutiny Type of Aggression when new rules/laws/orders are in-acted= . As we speak, there are probably 2-3 other sites that will try to spring= up, but will die on the Vine. There is only one Ketchup, one McDonald's an= d one Kleenex. How may copy cats of Ebay have come and gone?

= Bullshit. There are numerous products and services where businesses compete= and keep a certain balance in the market. In every supermarket I can buy= the same shit, yet there are numerous supermarkets. Remember, we're still= in the early days of this type of business. Nothing is written in stone ye= t and there will be a lot of changes.

What has been studied and is= seen in the past is that when an organization goes into a new market early= , they will probably get a head start. At the same time they will have to= find ways to deal with new problems (like scamming or finding the right cu= t of sales they can take). If another organization steps into the market la= ter, they will probably need to bring some money to get the show running.= But they will benefit from the fact that previous mistakes won't have to= be made and might be able to do things better right away.

That said= , if I can buy the same product, from the same vendor, with the same 'safet= y' (escrow), I choose the site which has the lowest price. As soon as enoug= h sellers get the feeling it's worth to advertise on other sites, you'll ha= ve a critical mass on that site which could end SR (if they don't find a wa= y to compete). What that reason can be, can be numerous: it can be the high= fees, or maybe the downtimes this site has (but probably a combination of= a lot of reasons).
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: oppyate on January 10, 2012, 03:29 pm=
Quote
Bullshit. There are numerous pr= oducts and services where businesses compete and keep a certain balance in= the market. In every supermarket I can buy the same shit, yet there are nu= merous supermarkets. Remember, we're still in the early days of this type= of business. Nothing is written in stone yet and there will be a lot of ch= anges.

Ok joechem..I'll bite. A little off topic, but if I'm= looking for high end quality in H or Weed..what would be my options?
Numerous Markets? Ebay/Amazon vs. ??. If you were wanting to Buy an item= that required specifics,
outside of the Two I mentioned, where would= you go?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: jochem on January 10, 2012, 04:37 pm<= /strong>
For drugs online, I think SR is currently your best bet (although I'm= seeing BlackMarket building almost the same site - could be a big competit= or). But remember, this market has just opened for the masses (before, most= people didn't buy or bought of street dealers, I guess).

Now if you= take regular electronics, you might go to only Ebay or Amazon. But I think= many others compare at other shops. Where I'm from (the Netherlands) those= sites aren't that big, and I buy my electronics at a huge range of webshop= s (which I get from a price comparison site). Low price + good reviews (or= other form of trust) =3D sell.

Same would go for this market (onlin= e drugs). If I get a better deal at BlackMarket, trust both the seller as= the site it self, I'll just buy there instead of here at SR. This isn't th= e deal (yet), so most will stick around here. But my guess is that more of= these sites will pop up, disappear and maybe take over the market position= of SR.

Remember, technically this isn't really an interesting enter= prise. Your average web developer could set this up in a week or so. The ch= allenge is in building trust (between all parties involved: SR, sellers, bu= yers) and making sure you don't get caught. The last bit probably takes som= e experience from similar, less legit businesses and is the thing holding= me back getting into this business as well.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: goldfishluv on January 10, 2012, 05:4= 4 pm
Had to put in my 2btc, i am a fairly new buyer and love it. now that th= at is outta the way here is what i think. OOE has never happened to me but= i have been scammed with early finalization. WTF is stopping OOE gonna do= to protect me the buyer? you want to protect me,=C2=A0 fuck finalize early= for new sellers with less than=C2=A0 $1000 dollars worth of sales to no le= ss than 15 buyers. that would get rid of scammers.

Also SR post alo= t of questions as to what he has to do=C2=A0 but never answers them. in deb= ate that would never fly. You know how much it takes to research sellers?= how long to get bitcoins? How much work to check the mail? i could do it= too.

=C2=A0but please SR show us the numbers!! Cost to run and main= tain and total revenue. I have no problem with you making a profit but arbi= trarily raising fees with a red herring of buyer safety is not cool.
As a buyer i usually only buy personal amounts. This is usually under $300= a month. Why dont you charge the buyer a % fee and take it off the seller?= ?? say %6 up to $300 or make differnt fee options for the type of buyer you= are, light, medium or bulk??

I already pay way too much ($10 a hit= of LSD, fuck me but i do it) for what i buy online compared to real life= but i get access to shit i cant find locally and now i will have to pay mo= re.

If it stays at 10% under $50 im goin to the streets because its= bullshit that doesn't protect me!!!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: goldfishluv on January 10, 2012, 05:4= 8 pm
SR im just asking you to give up $1.88 per $50. Thats not too much is= it?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 10= , 2012, 06:04 pm
Quote= from: Trinitron421 on January 10, 2012, 04:22 am


Silk Road, thank you for everything= you have done. Just this post has inspired me to have even more confidence= in you, and I especially like the captain analogy.

Fuck the haters.=
Do you realize what would happen to this man if he were ever caught?He would be hung up by a fucking string, he and his cohorts would be label= ed as terrorist sent to Guantanamo bay and never heard of again. Doomed to= be tortured the rest of their life.

Trinitron421

- i don't wish this but should it happen, maybe a drug lord could come up= with the bail money and fly Mr SR to a secret location.
- hopefully the= re's a contingency plan to continue SR till management is restored.
- ch= ange location & regroup
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 10, 2012, 06:= 06 pm
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

***************= ************************************************************


=C2= =A0 I have considered all that you have written, it has clearly been the re= sult of much consideration.=C2=A0 Here's
my concerns:


- ----= ---------------------
=C2=A0 "First we must deal with trading out of esc= row.=C2=A0 Up to this point we have charged a flat 6.23%
commission on= all trades.=C2=A0 This is much too high for transactions in the $300 and= over range, making
trading out of escrow for large transactions much= more attractive than staying within the system.=C2=A0 Now,
instead of= charging a flat commission, we will charge a higher amount for low priced= items and a lower
amount for high priced items, similar to how eBay do= es it."
- ------------------------

=C2=A0 Well, first off let me= say this is *NOT* Ebay.=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get their money *BEFORE* they= ship *ANYTHING* out.=C2=A0
So if its gonna be like ebay, then let me= have my money upfront.=C2=A0 Ebay bills at the end of the month for their<= br>percentage.=C2=A0 Instead of being paid before I ship things out, Silk= Road gets the money and the benefit of the
interest as well as the flu= ctuation of the BTC market.=C2=A0 Also, I cannot feedback to buyers feedbac= k like on ebay,
and buyers do not have a percentage rating that is disp= layed with their usernames either.=C2=A0 This makes scamming
me quite= a bit easier.=C2=A0 Furthermore, the listings are not auctions, I have to= name my price instead of
allowing the market to bear what it will as wi= th ebay, so lets just be clear that this is not ebay and you cannot
para= llel it to ebay.=C2=A0 Now if you wanna make the changes to make it like eb= ay, then sure, lets copy ebays system,
I'm 110% all in for getting paid= upfront before I send out products.

to sum it up:
=C2=A0
=C2= =A0 1)=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get paid BEFORE they ship goods or services to th= e buyer.
=C2=A0 2)=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get billed at the end of the month= for sales percentage due.
=C2=A0 3)=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get to post feed= back to BUYERS accounts and buyers are rated beside their usernames
=C2= =A0 4)=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get the benefit of auction type of prices resulti= ng from current market demand



- ------------------------
= "We also went to the Silk Road independent sellers to see what they thought= an appropriate commission
schedule would look like.=C2=A0 The average= response looked like this:
15% of the first $10
11% of $10 - $50
= 8.14% of $50 - $250
5.6% of $250 - $1000
3.7% of $1000 - $5000
We looked at past sales data and our current and future revenue needs and= were able to bring these
numbers down even further:

10% of the= first $50
8.5% of $50 - 150
6% of $150 - 300
3% of $300 - 500
= 2% of $500 - 1000
1.5% for everything over $1000"
- -----------------= -------

=C2=A0 First I heard of this was in the mass PM you sent out= , it seems to me that you would have at least PM'd the
top 10 sellers= to get some feedback.=C2=A0 All the sellers that I know seemed to be supri= sed by this, perhaps I dont
associate with the people you discussed thi= s with.=C2=A0 I dont sell anything under 10 dollars but I know some do, and a 10% tax is a bit high..=C2=A0 I do sell some items in the $10-$50 ra= nge, which has been somewhat of a pain in
the ass due to fake feedback= being posted to my history.=C2=A0 Increasing the tax does nothing to prote= ct the buyers
or the vendors from the issues with scammers on either si= de of the table.=C2=A0 Might I inqure with which vendors you
correspond= ed with?


- -----------------------
"With this change, there= are no phoney excuses whatsoever for vendors to ask for out of escrow paym= ent.=C2=A0
Any request should be interpreted as a scam attempt and repo= rted to the Silk Road support team via the
=E2=80=9Ccontact us=E2=80=9D= link on the main site.=C2=A0 We are looking at several mechanisms for enfo= rcing the ban on OOE
transactions, from self-policing to bounties on of= fenders."
- -----------------------

=C2=A0 Well, it sounds like= your calling me a scammer, right?=C2=A0 Maybe you have not read my vendor= homepage.=C2=A0 I do all
my international orders OOE for a reason:=C2= =A0 Im not a bitcoin loan agent.=C2=A0 Some international people get my orders within 5-8 days and some dont get them for 18-21 days (South Africa= , Russia to name a few)=C2=A0 If you want
to stop OOE's then you need= to provide more options within the escrow system so that vendors can work= within
it without having to be forced to wait nearly a month at times= for their BTC's on orders that they paid
their suppliers for long befo= re it was even shipped out.=C2=A0 I provide a OOE listing so that people wi= ll have the
opportunity to feedback as with any other sale, good or bad= .

=C2=A0 It sounds to me like your planning to take a freedom and tr= ust based community and introducing an
financial incentive to create sn= itches.=C2=A0 So how much are you planning on paying snitches to ban yourvendors?=C2=A0 Really thats laughable cause the biggest and most financia= lly rewarding scams are the MP->BTC
vendors that have turned scammer= s which you have granted an exception to the rule.=C2=A0 Apparently you hav= e not
considered that a banned vendor can simply get a new vendor accou= nt for $150 and scam or OOE again.=C2=A0 How does
this OOE ban stop sca= mming??=C2=A0 The answer is simply that it does not.=C2=A0 As long as early= finalize is allowed, OOE
is no different with regard to protecting any= one other than protecting Silk Road getting a percentange.=C2=A0

If= its that you feel your being cut out of the OOE deals then *YOU NEED TO JU= ST SAY SO* and not make it about
protecting the buyers, nobody can prote= ct the buyer or the vendors UNLESS you plan to provide insurance.=C2=A0 Now=
thats something that I think we all would agree would be worth 10%.
=
I hope that you do not get all bent out of shape and order me to "walk= the plank" because I'm not a "YES" man,
and I say all of this with the= upmost respect for what you have accomplished and achieved.=C2=A0 People= that roll
with me know that I will speak my truth even if I know some= people wont like it, those that are wise appreciate
being surrounded= by people that dont just rubber stamp everything they say because nobody= is right 100% of the
time.=C2=A0 Hell if I was right 51% of the time= I'd just go to Las Vegas and get rich in a day.=C2=A0 I have been in this=
trade IRL for a very loooonnnnngggg time, I can assure you that it is= easier to find webpage developers than it
is to find vendors with exce= ptional access to very high quality drugs.=C2=A0 Creating financial incenti= ves to ban
your vendors is a disaster in the making.

Personally,= I would have rather taken on these issues privatly in a forum format with= the top 50 vendors and the
top 50 buyers, however your schedule is so= abrupt that there is no time for back channel diploymacy.=C2=A0 I submit=
that it would be wise to postpone making any changes until there has= been enough time for buyers and vendors
alike to have a open dialogue= with you with regards to changes that can actually make a difference with= regard
to scammers, if thats what this is really all about.=C2=A0 If= its about you need more money then you need to just say
so.=C2=A0 Ther= es nothing wrong with wanting to get paid, Im certainly not doing this shit= for free.


Submitted with the upmost respect,
Paperchasing
**********************************************************************= *****


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Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 10= , 2012, 06:19 pm
Quote= from: goldfishluv on January 10, 2012, 05:44 pm
..
=C2=A0but please SR show us the numbers= !! Cost to run and maintain and total revenue. I have no problem with you= making a profit but arbitrarily raising fees with a red herring of buyer= safety is not cool.

- operating costs + admins, mods, coder= s + emergency costs + SR profit=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+ future proofing= to expand service.
- a few months ago SR wasn't making much in profit,= there may be more transactions but probably so have the costs associated= with running have gone up too.
- based on SR's posts he obviously has= a game plan and setting aside even $400 a month isn't going to be enough= to take SR + forum to the next level, and to quote SR=C2=A0 "This is not= about making money.=C2=A0 This is about winning a war.=C2=A0 Look how far= we've come in 8 short months.=C2=A0 We are JUST getting started"

{n= ot that i know anymore than what i read here...}

=C2=A0;)


Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 10= , 2012, 06:47 pm
the ebay analogy :-
- difference is ebay +paypal are all above board= and easier to "force" known buyers and sellers to cough up when either is= at fault and they have your bank a/c or paypal
=C2=A0reg'd etc.
- SR= and the illegality dictates we remain anonymous.
- similar in terms of= providing an online shopping service so perhaps costs are comparable.=C2= =A0
- ebay & paypal take into account shipping methods and conditio= n of item been sold/bought, SR -its nobody's "responsibility" (?!) {the dow= nside of the drugs market..}

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: oppyate on January 10, 2012, 08:04 pm=
Quote
UNLESS you plan to provide insu= rance.=C2=A0 Now
thats something that I think we all would agree would= be worth 10%.

SR, might want to give some thought Why some of th= e most Profitable Corporations (Life & Auto Insurance) are Raking in Th= e Wad.
In the past I've been peachy with being charged a "Privilage Fee"= to be a Buyer.

Now if I was Given the "choice" to Buy Insurance on= my Transaction (say 10%), with with a Trusted Vendor..all goes well I get= back 8%, you keep 2%..then your talking about Fair & Voluntary Revenue= and further Protecting the Buyer. I'm just saying...

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 10, 2012, 09:= 45 pm
I want to add to this discussion further by saying that I was scammed= here too before I was a vendor.. hell I was just tryin to get the damn BTC= 's to buy a vendor account and some ass nugger MP->BTC exhanger that had= built up some rep turned scammer and stole a $400 MP from me.=C2=A0 I dont= see how any of this proposed legislation could have prevented that, especi= ally with a special exemption for MP->BTC exchangers.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Ineluctable on January 10, 2012, 09:4= 6 pm
Quote= from: BashfulBetty on January 09, 2012, 08:11 pm
It seems to me that the best way to keep eve= rybody happy would be to bring "out of escrow" sales out of the shadows.=C2= =A0 There are honest and legitimate business reasons to bypass the escrow= system, and these needs must be addressed.=C2=A0 Using early finalization= is a clumsy, awkward workaround to this problem.

Allow vendors with= a high enough feedback rating and sales history to earn the right to add= "out of escrow" as an option when listing a product.=C2=A0

Now, ou= t of escrow sales don't bypass the SR fee structure or feedback system.=C2= =A0 SR revenues increase.=C2=A0 Scammers will be exposed via feedback, and= could lose the privilege of bypassing escrow.=C2=A0 There is now no legiti= mate reason (no, fee avoidance is not a legitimate reason) to bypass the SR= system; there should be little opposition to banning these deals.

S= uch listings would have a big, bold print disclaimer automatically added to= the top, so even newbie buyers would know the risks they take by buying ou= t of escrow.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

Some vendors may be able to offer= lower prices for out of escrow deals; this benefits both buyers and seller= .=C2=A0 If this happens, it might be worth setting things up so listings ha= ve both an "in escrow" and "out of escrow" price.=C2=A0 Again, this benefit= s everybody.

I really can't see a downside to this.=C2=A0 Does anyon= e else?=C2=A0 Anyone?=C2=A0 Anyone?=C2=A0 Beuller?

I like thi= s idea. Vendors sometimes need to get money immediately, and I'm sure there= will be some secretive OOE deals still for that very reason. Instead of no= w forcing vendors to do non-escrow deals behind encrypted messages, why not= make it more transparent?

Integrate an option for non-escrow purcha= ses into the SR system. Provide it as an alternative - if a buyer is willin= g to give up all recourse on getting monetary re-compensation in exchange= for a discount, let them. Give the option only to trusted and active vendo= rs - ones with a certain number of transactions per month who have been pro= ven to be reliable.

Silk Road would still get their fee, and vendors= would get their money immediately. Again, criteria would need to be establ= ished to ensure that only trustworthy vendors would be able to use this opt= ion. (I have Anarcho in mind right now, but I am sure there are many others= ). No more newbies scamming OOE.

This would leave it to buyers to de= cide what is more important to them, price or security. They could buy the= product in escrow if they wish, but if they have trust in a vendor they ca= n get the same product at a discounted price. I think I'd honestly prefer= a system like this to 'early finalization'.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: DrawkwarD on January 10, 2012, 09:50= pm
Quote= from: Paperchasing on January 10, 2012, 06:06 pm
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash:= SHA1

**************************************************************= *************


=C2=A0 I have considered all that you have written= , it has clearly been the result of much consideration.=C2=A0 Here's
my= concerns:


- -------------------------
=C2=A0 "First we must= deal with trading out of escrow.=C2=A0 Up to this point we have charged a= flat 6.23%
commission on all trades.=C2=A0 This is much too high for= transactions in the $300 and over range, making
trading out of escrow= for large transactions much more attractive than staying within the system= .=C2=A0 Now,
instead of charging a flat commission, we will charge a hi= gher amount for low priced items and a lower
amount for high priced ite= ms, similar to how eBay does it."
- ------------------------

=C2= =A0 Well, first off let me say this is *NOT* Ebay.=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get= their money *BEFORE* they ship *ANYTHING* out.=C2=A0
So if its gonna= be like ebay, then let me have my money upfront.=C2=A0 Ebay bills at the= end of the month for their
percentage.=C2=A0 Instead of being paid befo= re I ship things out, Silk Road gets the money and the benefit of the
i= nterest as well as the fluctuation of the BTC market.=C2=A0 Also, I cannot= feedback to buyers feedback like on ebay,
and buyers do not have a per= centage rating that is displayed with their usernames either.=C2=A0 This ma= kes scamming
me quite a bit easier.=C2=A0 Furthermore, the listings are= not auctions, I have to name my price instead of
allowing the market to= bear what it will as with ebay, so lets just be clear that this is not eba= y and you cannot
parallel it to ebay.=C2=A0 Now if you wanna make the ch= anges to make it like ebay, then sure, lets copy ebays system,
I'm 110%= all in for getting paid upfront before I send out products.

to sum= it up:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 1)=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get paid BEFORE they ship= goods or services to the buyer.
=C2=A0 2)=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get billed= at the end of the month for sales percentage due.
=C2=A0 3)=C2=A0 Ebay= sellers get to post feedback to BUYERS accounts and buyers are rated besid= e their usernames
=C2=A0 4)=C2=A0 Ebay sellers get the benefit of auctio= n type of prices resulting from current market demand



- ----= --------------------
"We also went to the Silk Road independent sellers= to see what they thought an appropriate commission
schedule would look= like.=C2=A0 The average response looked like this:
15% of the first $10=
11% of $10 - $50
8.14% of $50 - $250
5.6% of $250 - $1000
3.7%= of $1000 - $5000

We looked at past sales data and our current and= future revenue needs and were able to bring these
numbers down even fu= rther:

10% of the first $50
8.5% of $50 - 150
6% of $150 - 300=
3% of $300 - 500
2% of $500 - 1000
1.5% for everything over $1000= "
- ------------------------

=C2=A0 First I heard of this was in= the mass PM you sent out, it seems to me that you would have at least PM'd= the
top 10 sellers to get some feedback.=C2=A0 All the sellers that I= know seemed to be suprised by this, perhaps I dont
associate with the= people you discussed this with.=C2=A0 I dont sell anything under 10 dollar= s but I know some do,
and a 10% tax is a bit high..=C2=A0 I do sell som= e items in the $10-$50 range, which has been somewhat of a pain in
the= ass due to fake feedback being posted to my history.=C2=A0 Increasing the= tax does nothing to protect the buyers
or the vendors from the issues= with scammers on either side of the table.=C2=A0 Might I inqure with which= vendors you
corresponded with?


- -----------------------"With this change, there are no phoney excuses whatsoever for vendors to= ask for out of escrow payment.=C2=A0
Any request should be interpreted= as a scam attempt and reported to the Silk Road support team via the
= =E2=80=9Ccontact us=E2=80=9D link on the main site.=C2=A0 We are looking at= several mechanisms for enforcing the ban on OOE
transactions, from sel= f-policing to bounties on offenders."
- -----------------------

= =C2=A0 Well, it sounds like your calling me a scammer, right?=C2=A0 Maybe= you have not read my vendor homepage.=C2=A0 I do all
my international= orders OOE for a reason:=C2=A0 Im not a bitcoin loan agent.=C2=A0 Some int= ernational people get my
orders within 5-8 days and some dont get them= for 18-21 days (South Africa, Russia to name a few)=C2=A0 If you want
= to stop OOE's then you need to provide more options within the escrow syste= m so that vendors can work within
it without having to be forced to wai= t nearly a month at times for their BTC's on orders that they paid
thei= r suppliers for long before it was even shipped out.=C2=A0 I provide a OOE= listing so that people will have the
opportunity to feedback as with= any other sale, good or bad.

=C2=A0 It sounds to me like your plann= ing to take a freedom and trust based community and introducing an
fina= ncial incentive to create snitches.=C2=A0 So how much are you planning on= paying snitches to ban your
vendors?=C2=A0 Really thats laughable cause= the biggest and most financially rewarding scams are the MP->BTC
ve= ndors that have turned scammers which you have granted an exception to the= rule.=C2=A0 Apparently you have not
considered that a banned vendor ca= n simply get a new vendor account for $150 and scam or OOE again.=C2=A0 How= does
this OOE ban stop scamming??=C2=A0 The answer is simply that it= does not.=C2=A0 As long as early finalize is allowed, OOE
is no differ= ent with regard to protecting anyone other than protecting Silk Road gettin= g a percentange.=C2=A0

If its that you feel your being cut out of= the OOE deals then *YOU NEED TO JUST SAY SO* and not make it about
prot= ecting the buyers, nobody can protect the buyer or the vendors UNLESS you= plan to provide insurance.=C2=A0 Now
thats something that I think we al= l would agree would be worth 10%.

I hope that you do not get all ben= t out of shape and order me to "walk the plank" because I'm not a "YES" man= ,
and I say all of this with the upmost respect for what you have accom= plished and achieved.=C2=A0 People that roll
with me know that I will= speak my truth even if I know some people wont like it, those that are wis= e appreciate
being surrounded by people that dont just rubber stamp eve= rything they say because nobody is right 100% of the
time.=C2=A0 Hell= if I was right 51% of the time I'd just go to Las Vegas and get rich in a= day.=C2=A0 I have been in this
trade IRL for a very loooonnnnngggg tim= e, I can assure you that it is easier to find webpage developers than it is to find vendors with exceptional access to very high quality drugs.=C2= =A0 Creating financial incentives to ban
your vendors is a disaster in= the making.

Personally, I would have rather taken on these issues= privatly in a forum format with the top 50 vendors and the
top 50 buye= rs, however your schedule is so abrupt that there is no time for back chann= el diploymacy.=C2=A0 I submit
that it would be wise to postpone making= any changes until there has been enough time for buyers and vendors
al= ike to have a open dialogue with you with regards to changes that can actua= lly make a difference with regard
to scammers, if thats what this is re= ally all about.=C2=A0 If its about you need more money then you need to jus= t say
so.=C2=A0 Theres nothing wrong with wanting to get paid, Im certa= inly not doing this shit for free.


Submitted with the upmost res= pect,
Paperchasing

**********************************************= *****************************


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SR this is an important point about vendors not being able= to rate buyers and having their btc stuck in escrow while buyers take thei= r time finalizing.=C2=A0 This is basically what I was trying to say before,= albeit a little more succinctly.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 10, 2012, 10:= 25 pm
Quote= from: Ineluctable on January 10, 2012, 09:46 pm
Quote from: BashfulBetty on January 09, 2012, 08:11 pm<= /a>
It seems to me tha= t the best way to keep everybody happy would be to bring "out of escrow" sa= les out of the shadows.=C2=A0 There are honest and legitimate business reas= ons to bypass the escrow system, and these needs must be addressed.=C2=A0= Using early finalization is a clumsy, awkward workaround to this problem.<= br>
Allow vendors with a high enough feedback rating and sales history= to earn the right to add "out of escrow" as an option when listing a produ= ct.=C2=A0

Now, out of escrow sales don't bypass the SR fee structur= e or feedback system.=C2=A0 SR revenues increase.=C2=A0 Scammers will be ex= posed via feedback, and could lose the privilege of bypassing escrow.=C2=A0= There is now no legitimate reason (no, fee avoidance is not a legitimate= reason) to bypass the SR system; there should be little opposition to bann= ing these deals.

Such listings would have a big, bold print disclaim= er automatically added to the top, so even newbie buyers would know the ris= ks they take by buying out of escrow.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

Some vendo= rs may be able to offer lower prices for out of escrow deals; this benefits= both buyers and seller.=C2=A0 If this happens, it might be worth setting= things up so listings have both an "in escrow" and "out of escrow" price.= =C2=A0 Again, this benefits everybody.

I really can't see a downside= to this.=C2=A0 Does anyone else?=C2=A0 Anyone?=C2=A0 Anyone?=C2=A0 Beuller= ?
=

I like this idea. Vendors sometimes need to get money immed= iately, and I'm sure there will be some secretive OOE deals still for that= very reason. Instead of now forcing vendors to do non-escrow deals behind= encrypted messages, why not make it more transparent?

Integrate an= option for non-escrow purchases into the SR system. Provide it as an alter= native - if a buyer is willing to give up all recourse on getting monetary= re-compensation in exchange for a discount, let them. Give the option only= to trusted and active vendors - ones with a certain number of transactions= per month who have been proven to be reliable.

Silk Road would stil= l get their fee, and vendors would get their money immediately. Again, crit= eria would need to be established to ensure that only trustworthy vendors= would be able to use this option. (I have Anarcho in mind right now, but= I am sure there are many others). No more newbies scamming OOE.

Thi= s would leave it to buyers to decide what is more important to them, price= or security. They could buy the product in escrow if they wish, but if the= y have trust in a vendor they can get the same product at a discounted pric= e. I think I'd honestly prefer a system like this to 'early finalization'.<= br>


Yes, there are PLENTY of reasons such as the following ac= tual Silk Road scenerio:=C2=A0 Lets say I order some LSD from my partner Mi= tanox that I plan to re-sell here.. ok, so I pay Mitanox OOE for the LSD,= and according to your proposed rules you want your cut (actually, accordin= g to your proposed rules Mitanox and myself would then be *banned as vendor= s*)=C2=A0 Now, I turn around to re-sell it here and there you are with your= hand out AGAIN wanting your cut.=C2=A0 Now, does that make Mitanox a scamm= er?=C2=A0 NO.=C2=A0 Does that mean that Mitanox attempted to scam me with= a "phoney excuse" why he wanted his money?=C2=A0 Umm.. NO not at all.=C2= =A0 Would that amount to double taxation?=C2=A0 Yes.=C2=A0 Does banning Mit= anox and myself for arranging this type of transaction make any sense?=C2= =A0 lol... I dont think I really need to answer that for you, loosing Mitan= ox's and myself as a vendors would not be prudent, just think of all the co= mmissions you would loose from the two of us not being here anymore.
Ok, well how about when I send BTC's to an exchanger, you want your cut of= that too?=C2=A0 Apparently...=C2=A0 according to your post and clarificati= on I'm not exempt from any type of transaction on Silk Road that does not= give you a percentage EACH AND EVERY TIME.

I think that this all ne= eds to be given a thorough second look before you enact sweeping rules that= run your vendors off... well the scammers would likely stay, they can just= keep getting new accounts no problemo...=C2=A0 what a mess that would be.= =C2=A0 Bounties on my head?=C2=A0 Sheesh... its already difficult enough ju= st keeping the cops at bay and the scammers off of me, now I gotta hide my= activities from you too?

Paperchasing
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: momiji on January 10, 2012, 10:37 pm<= /strong>
I couldn't agree more! Here the major problem to a new small time vendo= r:

Ordering product takes: 2-3 weeks
Without early finalization= payment takes: 1 week

So roughly3-4 weeks before I get my money bac= k after buying product.

If I do not have the monetary funds to buy= a large quantity of product (and I don't) then I will ALWAYS be sold out,= except maybe 2-5 days out of a month.

Sure, I'm nearly doubling how= much I put down, so it will only be a matter of time until I can buy enoug= h bulk to get around this issue, but until then it is a slow process. We ar= e talking about roughly 3-5 months of vending before I can buy large enough= in bulk to HOPEFULLY not be sold out between shipments. This is with rough= ly $800 down in the beginning. If I see profits from this it will be 8-12= months from the time I put my original money in and started this whole gam= e.

Until then, I look like an unreliable vendor which isn't exactly= good for reputation. I literally do not have the money to handle a single= scam from a buyer or a seller. One scammer and I'm out of business.
Early finalization adds up to the young vendor, as time is more important= than money. It isn't about being paid more. It is about getting my money= NOW so I can reinvest it the second I get it.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 10, 2012, 11:= 23 pm
Yeh, I'd be all over all this Ebay structuring plan if I got my money= before I sent things out instead of like 3-18 days later...=C2=A0 why shou= ld I have to shoulder the entire burden of financing this shit out for buye= rs, especially the noobs that end up auto-finalizing their orders?=C2=A0 He= ll, I'm taking enough risk just hooking up a good connect for quality stuff= not to mention risking my ass dropping like 20-40 federal felonies a day= in a USPS bluebox??=C2=A0 I understand it takes a lot to run this site wit= h all the planning, coding, bitchin, bullshit and the forums... and by the= same token it takes a lot to run a organized crime syndicate that speciali= zes in supplying quality drugs consistently.=C2=A0 Know what I mean?=C2=A0= Damn.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MANTHEFUCKUP on January 10, 2012, 11:= 37 pm
Paperchasing pull up your panties your embarrassing yourself.

Fu= ck man go start your own website if your that upset, no one's going to miss= you faggot. And no one's going to visit your website lol! Just please shut= the fuck up.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: jackstraw on January 11, 2012, 12:15= am
Wow....nothing like calling somebody a faggot in your very FIRST POST.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0Aren't you cool.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Learn some respect and then come= back and post your opinions.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 TROLL=C2=A0 =C2=A0
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 11, 2012, 12:= 19 am
Quote= from: MANTHEFUCKUP on January 10, 2012, 11:37 pm
Paperchasing pull up your panties your embar= rassing yourself.

Fuck man go start your own website if your that up= set, no one's going to miss you faggot. And no one's going to visit your we= bsite lol! Just please shut the fuck up.


lol... what a su= rprise:=C2=A0 =C2=A0"MANTHEFUCKUP"=C2=A0 Newbie - 1 post

hahaaa you= sure picked the right name for yourself, nice work dumbass!=C2=A0 Now get= back to your homework before you get in trouble with your mommy...

= Paperchasing

Edit:=C2=A0 Yeh, so this is a perfect example what I wa= s saying about how the assholes and scammers will be doing - just gettin a= new account to talk shit from...=C2=A0 didn't even take more than a few ho= urs to prove it.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: reddust on January 11, 2012, 12:20 am=
Quote= from: towelie on January 10, 2012, 06:52 am
Quote from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am
Whether you like it or no= t, I am the captain of this ship.=C2=A0 You are here voluntarily and if you= don't like the rules of the game, or you don't trust your captain, you can= get off the boat.=C2=A0 For those that stay, we at Silk Road will continue= to do everything in our power to keep this market running smoothly and saf= ely, and thank you again for your support!

I'm staying on the= boat.
Convenience, safety, and selection of quality products is more th= an worth a couple extra dollars to me.

Thank you SR,

T

You have my support too SilkRoad. (i am sure you are trying to work= out a lot of other stuff except the commissions in order to improve the si= te)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Horizons on January 11, 2012, 12:22= am
Quote= from: MANTHEFUCKUP on January 10, 2012, 11:37 pm
Paperchasing pull up your panties your embar= rassing yourself.

Fuck man go start your own website if your that up= set, no one's going to miss you faggot. And no one's going to visit your we= bsite lol! Just please shut the fuck up.
Your parents should have= used a condom.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: mrgrey on January 11, 2012, 12:31 am<= /strong>
Quote= from: Paperchasing on January 11, 2012, 12:19 am
Quote from: MANTHEFUCKUP on January 10, 2012, 11:37 pm=
Paperchasing pull= up your panties your embarrassing yourself.

Fuck man go start your= own website if your that upset, no one's going to miss you faggot. And no= one's going to visit your website lol! Just please shut the fuck up.
<= /div>

lol... what a surprise:=C2=A0 =C2=A0"MANTHEFUCKUP"=C2=A0 Newbi= e - 1 post

hahaaa you sure picked the right name for yourself, nice= work dumbass!=C2=A0 Now get back to your homework before you get in troubl= e with your mommy...

Paperchasing

Edit:=C2=A0 Yeh, so this is= a perfect example what I was saying about how the assholes and scammers wi= ll be doing - just gettin a new account to talk shit from...=C2=A0 didn't= even take more than a few hours to prove it.

obviously someo= ne that is too much of a pussy to post under the own handle
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 11, 2012, 12:= 46 am
Well mrgrey, you know, if they had something productive or interesting= to say they would have posted it under their own username instead of hidin= g like a little fake ass cartoon movie ass bitch.=C2=A0 Hell I'm right here= , I'm not hard to find..=C2=A0 =C2=A0you know where I fucking be and you kn= ow where I stand.=C2=A0 I'm trying to have a real discussion about valid is= sues... I welcome intelligent dialogue.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: kmfkewm on January 11, 2012, 02:31 am=
Quote= from: Silk Road on January 10, 2012, 02:17 am
Thank you everyone for your comments and sugg= estions.=C2=A0 One suggestion I especially like is the one about commission= being affected by trade volume.=C2=A0 To those of you that are either supp= ortive of the change, or have faith in what I am doing regardless of whethe= r you see the point or not, thank you for your support!=C2=A0 I have done= everything I can to earn that trust and I cherish it.

To those of= you chalking my actions up to pure greed and ignoring the context for the= changes, I say shame on you.=C2=A0 When have I lied?=C2=A0 When have I che= ated or stolen from anyone here?=C2=A0 When have I treated anyone unfairly?= =C2=A0 When have I lead you astray?=C2=A0 Why do you turn on me now when I= have poured my heart and soul into this community and project?

10%= on $50 orders?=C2=A0 We are talking about an extra $1.88!=C2=A0 A $10 orde= r?=C2=A0 An extra 38 cents!=C2=A0 Do you think this site built itself?=C2= =A0 Do you think it runs itself?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what goes on be= hind the scenes to keep this going?=C2=A0 Do you have any idea the risk the= people operating this site are taking?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what we'= ve been through to get here today?=C2=A0 Do you have any clue what it's goi= ng to take to get through the next year?

Whether you like it or not,= I am the captain of this ship.=C2=A0 You are here voluntarily and if you= don't like the rules of the game, or you don't trust your captain, you can= get off the boat.=C2=A0 For those that stay, we at Silk Road will continue= to do everything in our power to keep this market running smoothly and saf= ely, and thank you again for your support!

I agree that you= should make money from SR but I disagree with forcing escrow on people, al= though of course you are morally okay to do this since it is your damn site= in the first place. But please spare acting like it is to combat scammers= when it is obviously for money, which of course is needed and i fully unde= rstand that and I do have a good idea of what it takes to run a site like= this. I am concerned by an admin of a drug forum who forces anyone to use= anything in particular, although I can not immediaitely thinkt of anything= malicious you can do by forcing escrow that you couldn't otherwise do it= does automatically make warning bells go off in my head when some action= is made to be required for participation when it isn't in reality required= . I think though that you are only trying to make more money, which is fine= , but please consider taxing all orders and forcing vendors who work on SR= to pay the tax, but don't force escrow is my honest suggestion. In the end= you will make the same amount of money, but nobody is going to risk losing= to a reverse scammer for a big deal and there are other potential issues= with forced escrow as well probably, although I don't have the time to thi= nk about it in depth atm.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Spedly on January 11, 2012, 02:54 am<= /strong>
I'll be keeping my purchases over $150. This means I'm paying 0.23% les= s in tax, which is fine by me. But in the end it also means less money I gi= ve to the site due to less frequent purchases. But that's not my problem.= SR is entitled to run this site however he wants. The other shoe will drop= .



Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: KingThursday on January 11, 2012, 03:= 49 am
LET THEM EAT CAKE.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: PumpkinYeti on January 11, 2012, 04:0= 2 am
Quote= from: Spedly on January 11, 2012, 02:54 am
I'll be keeping my purchases over $150. This means= I'm paying 0.23% less in tax, which is fine by me. But in the end it also= means less money I give to the site due to less frequent purchases. But th= at's not my problem. SR is entitled to run this site however he wants. The= other shoe will drop.

You're not correct. You're reading it= wrong. When you hit 150, it doesn't become 6% for the whole thing. He's go= nna take 10% of the first $50, plus 8.5% of the next $100 dollars. On a $15= 0 order, you'll be paying $5 + 8.50 =3D 13.50 which is 9%. I did all the ma= th on page 1. You'll have to purchase over $417 worth to get a lower percen= tage now. That's quite a bit larger than $150.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Looker on January 11, 2012, 04:15 am<= /strong>
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Initially I tho= ught, SR has to make some money somehow but the more I read it the less it= makes sense.

This new policy punishes and makes it even harder for= lower cost vendors from being able to penetrate this market and be competi= tive. This is all under the guise of 'reducing scammers'. I'm sorry I just= can't even get behind that, how does raising the prices on lower cost item= s reduce scammers? In fact it doesn't, not at all. Also the gaps between co= mission percentages are too wide and %10 while you might think it's not ver= y much, tell that to the buyer that decides that they are already paying a= premium to order from SR and now they are paying more? Or the vendor is no= w going to take a hit, what if their margins are already tight as it is? No= w they are discouraged from doing business here and lowers the volume of sa= les lowering YOUR revenue!

I fully understand what it costs to run= a site such as this I've worked IRL doing exactly the same thing and every= time I read this 'State of the Road Address' all it says to me is 'I knew= this would be popular and grow, but I didn't know it would grow this fast,= lets see if we can squeeze a few more % out of people'

I'm not even= saying that there is a problem with that but thats really what it looks li= ke, and if thats the case just say so. A message saying something like 'We= did not anticipate that this amount of growth would occur in such a short= time and in order to maintain the site and perform some upgrades (maybe ev= en some examples would be nice) we need to re-asses the fee structure to ac= comodate this. Additionally the amount of work it is requiring is more than= anticipated therefore the fees will be going up. But this is not the messa= ge not at all.

If the interest was truly in how to reduce scamming= and taking a community oriented approach to this (as you indicated that yo= u discussed this with people, although seeing as how the top vendors that= have posted here knew nothing about it) it would have been discussed WITH= THE COMMUNITY. Show me one single thread where there was some mention of= 'The SR staff and I have been reviewing the comission structure and think= it needs adjustment, this is what we have come up with thus far'. Hell you= could have even done a poll with say 3-4 options and outlined them and the= n if it was really about 'the community' let them decide and then maybe fin= d something that was somewhere in the middle where you got more out of the= sales and the community as a whole supported it, a win-win but thats not= what is happening.

I really truly think SR is a great site, and I= really hope to see it survive a long and healthy life but if you want peop= le to believe in it as much as you claim then things like this should be di= scussed openly at least to some extent with the community. I don't think th= ats too much to ask. Even if it means throwing out a simple feeler topic an= d having a few more forum admins that review them for you.

As much= as I support SR and it's goals or at least what I thought it's goals were/= are this approach makes me doubt the honesty and integrity of what SR is re= ally all about and does not leave me feeling that this is whats best for th= e community, it sounds like this has become whats best for SR staff and if= the community doesn't like it they can go screw off.


Hope this= works out in the long run.

Looker

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Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: goldgutted on January 11, 2012, 04:28= am
Well said Looker. They do not address any issues, set no goals to fix= anything, do not even acknowledge the mass amount of scammers there are,= especially in the LSD market. Also, they made the fee structure without an= y input from the community, and I do feel that it is too high, too greedy.=

They say that the captain always dies with his ship. It will be in= teresting to see what happens.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: uniwiz on January 11, 2012, 04:31 am<= /strong>
Dear Silk Road,

I read the diatribe by my vendor friend papercha= sing.
When he gets made he really lets it out. He has his point represen= ting the vendors.
For him, you are cutting into his profit margins.
F= or others they will increase prices, and lose possible sales.
Also it wa= s kinda spring on us, but I have to say your early posts suggested this dir= ection.

To both of us buyer, and vendor you are being disingenuous= to tell you are going to stop scamming by stopping OOE.
Or are you sugg= esting OOE=C2=A0 is the cause of scamming?
It's bullshit. You need to ma= ke other changes in the system.

The BTC market, and the BTC tradedrs= are the biggest scammers/taxers of them all.
I've lost more in BTC trad= es than any drug deal.
How you protecting me? You ain't.
But yet make= an exception for them.

Now saying that, you worked hard, you made= SR what it is, and it's credit.
You deserve to squeeze it for what it's= worth.
This is not a democracy.
Competition is the key.
So soak= us for what we are worth.
I promise, now that we know it can be done it= will be done, again, again, and again.
Unless it's not worth it.
You have done great things, I only hope you don't push our limits too far.=
I suggest you are testing us, as a group.
I would suggest as a buyer= , that paying for the privilege to buy will stop many more scammers then yo= ur suggestion.
It won't generate the capital you are really interested= in, and feel cheated out of. Rightfully so.
So just lets be honest. It'= s about $$$$$, not protection.

With respect, and love,

Uniwiz
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: RapidImprovement on January 11, 2012,= 04:34 am
Quote= from: Looker on January 11, 2012, 04:15 am
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Initially I thought, SR has to make some money somehow but the more= I read it the less it makes sense.

This new policy punishes and mak= es it even harder for lower cost vendors from being able to penetrate this= market and be competitive. This is all under the guise of 'reducing scamme= rs'. I'm sorry I just can't even get behind that, how does raising the pric= es on lower cost items reduce scammers? In fact it doesn't, not at all. Als= o the gaps between comission percentages are too wide and %10 while you mig= ht think it's not very much, tell that to the buyer that decides that they= are already paying a premium to order from SR and now they are paying more= ? Or the vendor is now going to take a hit, what if their margins are alrea= dy tight as it is? Now they are discouraged from doing business here and lo= wers the volume of sales lowering YOUR revenue!

I fully understand= what it costs to run a site such as this I've worked IRL doing exactly the= same thing and every time I read this 'State of the Road Address' all it= says to me is 'I knew this would be popular and grow, but I didn't know it= would grow this fast, lets see if we can squeeze a few more % out of peopl= e'

I'm not even saying that there is a problem with that but thats= really what it looks like, and if thats the case just say so. A message sa= ying something like 'We did not anticipate that this amount of growth would= occur in such a short time and in order to maintain the site and perform= some upgrades (maybe even some examples would be nice) we need to re-asses= the fee structure to accomodate this. Additionally the amount of work it= is requiring is more than anticipated therefore the fees will be going up.= But this is not the message not at all.

If the interest was truly= in how to reduce scamming and taking a community oriented approach to this= (as you indicated that you discussed this with people, although seeing as= how the top vendors that have posted here knew nothing about it) it would= have been discussed WITH THE COMMUNITY. Show me one single thread where th= ere was some mention of 'The SR staff and I have been reviewing the comissi= on structure and think it needs adjustment, this is what we have come up wi= th thus far'. Hell you could have even done a poll with say 3-4 options and= outlined them and then if it was really about 'the community' let them dec= ide and then maybe find something that was somewhere in the middle where yo= u got more out of the sales and the community as a whole supported it, a wi= n-win but thats not what is happening.

I really truly think SR is a= great site, and I really hope to see it survive a long and healthy life bu= t if you want people to believe in it as much as you claim then things like= this should be discussed openly at least to some extent with the community= . I don't think thats too much to ask. Even if it means throwing out a simp= le feeler topic and having a few more forum admins that review them for you= .

As much as I support SR and it's goals or at least what I thought= it's goals were/are this approach makes me doubt the honesty and integrity= of what SR is really all about and does not leave me feeling that this is= whats best for the community, it sounds like this has become whats best fo= r SR staff and if the community doesn't like it they can go screw off.
<= br>
Hope this works out in the long run.

Looker

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Agreed Looker.

Paperchasing I completely agree with you as well.
Manthefuckup, fuck you and your pathetically ironic name.

-RI
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: abuttelmao on January 11, 2012, 05:30= am
Maybe a good alternative way of generating revenue could be charging fo= r buyer accounts?=C2=A0 Perhaps a read-only account is free, but to make a= purchase requires getting a paid buyer account?

This would have the= added bonus of massively decreasing the amount of scam buyers, which is a= major reason why vendors do OOE/early finalization...it would also, I feel= , increase the quality of the SR community.=C2=A0 As I understand it, most= people who make accounts never make a purchase anyway, so they would be ha= ppy with a read-only account.

As a buyer, I would be more than willi= ng to pay a one time fee for a buyer account, because of the benefits I men= tioned above.=C2=A0 Food for thought, anyway...
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Laughing Man on January 11, 2012, 05:= 47 am
If buyers have to pay for accounts, that will drive even more people aw= ay from SR. Bottom line to me is that SR should already be making $5k+ per= month with the flat 6.25% fee and if he can't run this site and pay himsel= f pretty well for what is very much part-time work then he's doing it wrong= .=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anarcho47 on January 11, 2012, 06:13= am
I have no problem with a buyer fee.=C2=A0 even a couple of BTC to unloc= k from read-only would greatly discourage scammers.

I've been mullin= g this over and I can understand where SR is coming from on OOE as far as= not getting their cut goes.=C2=A0 That being said, there should be a tiere= d system where, say, a seller with less than 50 completes cannot force earl= y finalize.=C2=A0 Maybe even 100.=C2=A0 With the amount of buyers on here,= if you have good prices it doesn't take long to hit that point.

Sad= ly, I'm not going to be able to offer bulk on here unless someone is willin= g to early finalize the transaction, mostly because of the float tie-up.=C2= =A0

I MAY still do the group buys, but I'm going to have to see how= pricing works out with the new commission and come up with something fair= for me and buyers.=C2=A0 Group-buys will be early-finalize only, while my= regular listings will be as per usual escrow (except under-stat customers= or refund stat customers, which will be early finalize).
Title: buy buyer account - finalise early pool...
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 11= , 2012, 07:14 am
buy accounts to fund Escrow / finalise early pool suggestion:

-= buyer account +-$40
- all deposit goes into the seller escrow / finalis= e early pool
- seller is paid early from the pool


- unsure wh= at the criteria would be for sellers to have access to the finalise early= pool, hopefully some new vendors are allowed access to this too...

= - i would be prepaid to buy an account if it helps achieve the above, $40= might not cover all purchases but the % of bad sales to good ones is low= (?)

=C2=A0;)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Trinitron421 on January 11, 2012, 05:= 18 pm
Quote= from: mrgrey on January 11, 2012, 04:40 pm
I feel that something that is not being addressed= is the fact that these new rates will affect the poorest user the hardest.= =C2=A0 Many of the buyers here are persons that are buying medicine that de= sperately need.=C2=A0 =C2=A0For the average person to get bitcoins they pay= 10-15% , then they pay another 10% from SR fees and then dont forget the= 4% fee for hedging.=C2=A0 After all this is done on a small purchase the= little guy is now paying something like a 30% additional fees just to get= his medicine.=C2=A0 This is not fair at all.

I really truly feel= that we are putting way to heavy a burden on the people that can least aff= ord it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0There must be a better way!

I feel ya,= not all of us have an expendable income. We can only budget so much, and= with the new fees that just means less medicine/product for us. But, I do= think your estimate for 10-15% is a little ridiculous for bitcoin fees, th= ere are quite a few ways to acquire bitcoins and even if you want them the= same day for most in the United States you shouldn't be paying over 5%. I= think if people are going to try to get more bang for their buck, they nee= d to do their research before trying to jump in, as it seems that most peop= le do.

All in all, we can discuss it all we want, but we will have= to test it out as SR says. We might have to pay higher fees for a while wi= th trial and error until we get something that is good for everyone. Can't= expect to do that just taking theoretically, it needs to be put into pract= ice before we can truly criticize.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: watertiger on January 11, 2012, 05:30= pm
Quote= from: Laughing Man on January 11, 2012, 05:47 am
If buyers have to pay for accounts, that wil= l drive even more people away from SR. Bottom line to me is that SR should= already be making $5k+ per month with the flat 6.25% fee and if he can't= run this site and pay himself pretty well for what is very much part-time= work then he's doing it wrong.
=

"making $5k+ per month"? The= commissions generated here are a lot more than $5K+ per month. They're als= o a lot more than $50K+ per month.

I don't care if SR pockets $500,0= 00 per year off the site or $5 million -- that's the way the capitalist wor= ld works -- but let's not kid ourselves about the scale of the revenue/prof= it that's being made here these days. There may well have been a time when= the site generated only enough to reinvest and cover expenses and pay SR= $5000 or $10,000 per month, but I suspect those days are long gone.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Trinitron421 on January 11, 2012, 06:= 51 pm
Quote= from: mrgrey on January 11, 2012, 06:37 pm
Quote from: Trinitron421 on January 11, 2012, 05:18 pm
Quote from: mrgrey on January 11,= 2012, 04:40 pm
I= feel that something that is not being addressed is the fact that these new= rates will affect the poorest user the hardest.=C2=A0 Many of the buyers= here are persons that are buying medicine that desperately need.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0For the average person to get bitcoins they pay 10-15% , then they pay= another 10% from SR fees and then dont forget the 4% fee for hedging.=C2= =A0 After all this is done on a small purchase the little guy is now paying= something like a 30% additional fees just to get his medicine.=C2=A0 This= is not fair at all.

I really truly feel that we are putting way to= heavy a burden on the people that can least afford it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0There= must be a better way!

I feel ya, not all of us have an expen= dable income. We can only budget so much, and with the new fees that just= means less medicine/product for us. But, I do think your estimate for 10-1= 5% is a little ridiculous for bitcoin fees, there are quite a few ways to= acquire bitcoins and even if you want them the same day for most in the Un= ited States you shouldn't be paying over 5%. I think if people are going to= try to get more bang for their buck, they need to do their research before= trying to jump in, as it seems that most people do.

All in all, we= can discuss it all we want, but we will have to test it out as SR says. We= might have to pay higher fees for a while with trial and error until we ge= t something that is good for everyone. Can't expect to do that just taking= theoretically, it needs to be put into practice before we can truly critic= ize.

the 15% is from the rates Sugarmama and BTCPal post them= selves for anything less than 100 dollars.=C2=A0 but even if you only have= to pay 5% exchange fee, with 10% SR fee, and 4% hedging, you are still loo= king at a 20% tax upon anything you want to buy.=C2=A0 and this tax is hitt= ing the people that can afford it least.=C2=A0 like i said some people here= are getting medicine they desperately need and can not afford such taxes,= its literally a choice between getting their medicine and getting nothing.= =C2=A0 there has to be some other way we can distribute this fee that is mo= re fair.

I understand completely. Just saying, there are ways= for the time being for us to mitigate some of those fees. One of the first= things I posted about this is that it would hurt the little man, like me,= the most. I don't agree with it, but I can deal with it. I am not in the= same situation as some, as it is uncomfortable for me to go without my med= icine, but I can live. I understand that some people here are desperately= in pain and this is the only way for some of them to relieve it. I really= can sympathize with that, I really wish SR would read this and give us a= direct response to this problem exactly, because for me it is one of the= major ones.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SuperDimitri on January 11, 2012, 07:= 13 pm
I've already noticed a huge spike in price for smaller items. And I thi= nk SR themselves recommend doing smaller transactions, so if you get ripped= ,or it doesn't show, you're not out tons of $$. Seriously,is anyone paying= $70usd for an 1/8 of herb?=C2=A0 I hope this catches on IRL! Not the fees,= but the prices! It'll go from care giving to actually making some $$!!=C2= =A0
MrGrey is right in saying this hurts the little guy, both buyer and= seller. Hurts em bad.
We must also look at this from another view: The= police call most drugs "controlled substances", as they control them(espec= ially in my area)...make no qualms about it. So, they make the price by kee= ping the demand for supply up. If I'm wrong, please tell me the lone sole= individual who creates the prices of drugs,as most are in no way correlate= d to the cost to manufacture them. I bring this up, because isn't SR doing= the same thing? SR is creating prices that just go up and up and up. How= long will keep buying items at a 20-40% markup, just for the novelty or "s= afety" of getting them online? How safe is it when you take 1/8,which is a= minor crime in most countries, but put it in the mail, and instant felony.=
Don't wanna get your noid gland salivating, but how many vendors could= be NUCLEO? And to me, this stands for Narcotics Undercover Law Enforcement= Officer, so even seeing a vendor with this antonym is sketchy as fuck. Is= that supposed to be funny? Anyway, how many have purchased, never received= , got your 50% refund, and felt all was OK? Or even worse, got your product= , but it wasn't as stated (MHM & TT), I bring this up just to point out= that we may be paying very high prices, just to give ourselves up.
IRL= I can get most of what's offered on the road, but much cheaper, and I feel= much safer, as I am lucky enough to deal with people I have known since gr= ade school (I know this option isn't there for everyone, but we choose wher= e we live ans who we associate with, it wasn't me who put you in a city ful= l of thugs and murderers.) My 1st thoughts of SR were that I could find som= e killer deals,since they had a world market. But those thoughts were quick= ly stifled.
I know I went off topic, but I think it coalesces with pric= e increase.
Then there's the other spectrum. It is already difficult to= become a vendor,unless you're a computer genius, so there is a lot of time= (time=3D$$) and $$ invested in becoming a vendor....a safe one, anyway. $1= 50 for the account, a vac sealer, plastic, stamps, etc, etc, etc, so yeah,= most have ALREADY raised their price to compensate, not thinking long term= at all. If you're selling 1oz/wk IRL, and 10oz/wk on SR, then you've alrea= dy been compensated. Bulk is supposed to be cheaper.
I also think anyon= e who claims they just want to be able to spread the love(drugs) to all us= who want it is full of shit. If that were the case, it'd be FREE.
The= more posts I read, the more I think this may be a bad idea. $150 for an ac= count, there's $36,000usd right there. BTW, that's my salary,too! What a co= incidence. Then, of those sellers, he takes what percent? 6.25% of sales,= plus the hedging fee? So, basically 10% of every sale. Yeah, I'd say WELL= over $5K/mo,though I don't have those figures to compare. But from the for= ums to the feedback, I'd say maybe $5K/day is closer to it. Any of those fu= nds being funneled to NORML, or MAPS?? I doubt it. Very much so.=C2=A0
= And if SR had lengthy discussions with top rated vendors prior to this deci= sion, and that those same vendors felt it was a fair schedule, then WHY are= top rated vendors coming to this thread to complain?
Just my morning= un-thoughts after sleeping on it,an seeing more posts.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Aoth14 on January 11, 2012, 08:27 pm<= /strong>
=C2=A0I had been pondering becoming a vendor over the holidays, and com= ing back to this had made me put off that decision.=C2=A0

=C2=A0 Fr= om a buyer standpoint, this could hurt the community in one fundamental way= ; I like to try new products and new vendors as often as possible. But now,= what I call 'sample quantities' are skyrocketing in price. Which means, I= will never try half the vendors I normally would,because I won't invest th= e extra amount to drop the transaction into a lower commission bracket, on= product and service I am not familiar with. I'm sure many others feel the= same way.=C2=A0 As someone who is usally buying for myself, and several fr= iends, the dropped commission for larger transactions is a big help, but I= can't honestly say its a long term benefit to the overall community. Maybe= it will help take out the wishy-washy sellers, but how many upcoming vendo= rs want to lose money the whole time they are trying to establish themselve= s? Especially those who are already established in the game, outside of SR.=
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 11= , 2012, 09:18 pm
Quote= from: abuttelmao on January 11, 2012, 05:30 am
Maybe a good alternative way of generating re= venue could be charging for buyer accounts?=C2=A0 Perhaps a read-only accou= nt is free, but to make a purchase requires getting a paid buyer account?
This would have the added bonus of massively decreasing the amount of= scam buyers, which is a major reason why vendors do OOE/early finalization= ...it would also, I feel, increase the quality of the SR community.=C2=A0= As I understand it, most people who make accounts never make a purchase an= yway, so they would be happy with a read-only account.

As a buyer,= I would be more than willing to pay a one time fee for a buyer account, be= cause of the benefits I mentioned above.=C2=A0 Food for thought, anyway...<= br>

- cast your vote:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?= topic=3D8535.0
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: CocaColaClassic on January 11, 2012,= 09:42 pm
Quote= from: Paperchasing on January 10, 2012, 11:23 pm
Yeh, I'd be all over all this Ebay structuri= ng plan if I got my money before I sent things out instead of like 3-18 day= s later...=C2=A0 why should I have to shoulder the entire burden of financi= ng this shit out for buyers, especially the noobs that end up auto-finalizi= ng their orders?=C2=A0 Hell, I'm taking enough risk just hooking up a good= connect for quality stuff not to mention risking my ass dropping like 20-4= 0 federal felonies a day in a USPS bluebox??=C2=A0 I understand it takes a= lot to run this site with all the planning, coding, bitchin, bullshit and= the forums... and by the same token it takes a lot to run a organized crim= e syndicate that specializes in supplying quality drugs consistently.=C2=A0= Know what I mean?=C2=A0 Damn.
<= div class=3D"botslice_quote">
Well said PC and quite funny.=C2= =A0 Tuff being a noob trying to get established as well.=C2=A0 I see both= sides.=C2=A0 I am sitting on a rather sizable order that I sure am glad it= is in escrow, however I see the delimma on your end as well.=C2=A0 BTW, mi= ss you on the yayo listings.=C2=A0 Any ETA?=C2=A0 You are my only completed= transaction.=C2=A0 I hope I don't have to dispute my other, but sure no co= mmunication or receipt on it!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Paperchasing on January 12, 2012, 12:= 31 am
Quote= from: CocaColaClassic on January 11, 2012, 09:42 pm
Quote from: Paperchasing on January 10, 2012, 11:23= pm
Yeh, I'd be al= l over all this Ebay structuring plan if I got my money before I sent thing= s out instead of like 3-18 days later...=C2=A0 why should I have to shoulde= r the entire burden of financing this shit out for buyers, especially the= noobs that end up auto-finalizing their orders?=C2=A0 Hell, I'm taking eno= ugh risk just hooking up a good connect for quality stuff not to mention ri= sking my ass dropping like 20-40 federal felonies a day in a USPS bluebox??= =C2=A0 I understand it takes a lot to run this site with all the planning,= coding, bitchin, bullshit and the forums... and by the same token it takes= a lot to run a organized crime syndicate that specializes in supplying qua= lity drugs consistently.=C2=A0 Know what I mean?=C2=A0 Damn.
Well= said PC and quite funny.=C2=A0 Tuff being a noob trying to get established= as well.=C2=A0 I see both sides.=C2=A0 I am sitting on a rather sizable or= der that I sure am glad it is in escrow, however I see the delimma on your= end as well.=C2=A0 BTW, miss you on the yayo listings.=C2=A0 Any ETA?=C2= =A0 You are my only completed transaction.=C2=A0 I hope I don't have to dis= pute my other, but sure no communication or receipt on it!
=

Ye= s, ETA on yayo is this weekend when I get back in town.=C2=A0 That is part= of the reason this is soooooob damn frustrating for me, I'm out of town tr= ying to handle my yayo/pharms/H re-upping business and we're squabbling amo= ngst ourselves here at the high command...=C2=A0 =C2=A0oh yeh, new product= at Paper-Mart:=C2=A0 =C2=A0Oo Uoglobe #4 100% Heroin uncut, listing for th= at go up to when I get back to the Papercave...

Paperchasing
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Rook on January 12, 2012, 02:54 am
I just want to show some solidarity for Silk. As far as I'm concerned,= he deserves every penny he makes from this place.=C2=A0 There is nothing= that can compare to the service SR offers.

Those who disagree are= more than welcome to try the alternatives or create their own.=C2=A0 I hea= r the Blackmarket is actually not too shabby these days, I'd check it out= myself, but I've got more business than I can handle here as it is.
I personally don't think the prices are that exorbitant, and although I do= have some reservations about=C2=A0 the zero tolerance for OOE, I think tha= t the ability to require early finalization covers the primary objections= proffered by Anarcho and Paperchasing.

I'm actually ashamed SR had= to defend himself here.=C2=A0 As far as I can see, Silk has never betrayed= or misled the community.=C2=A0 Accusations of greed are petty and classles= s.=C2=A0 Even if Silk is pocketing 95% of the proceeds from the site, he de= serves every penny for what he's created here. I've been peddling pot for= nearly 8 months now and never once experienced the fear-for-your-life/free= dom encounters that happen all the time out on the street.=C2=A0 If we can'= t appreciate the value of such a revolutionary institution, we better be pr= epared to work without it, and I'm personally not to that point.

An= yway, that's all I have to say, pay the man his dues or peddle elsewhere;= this aint no craigslist.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: erko78 on January 12, 2012, 07:52 am<= /strong>
I haven't logged in a few weeks and I just did to check up on SR.=C2=A0= I read the first ''letter'' and now this State of the Road and I must agre= e I'm very happy that you have finally done this.=C2=A0 I can't speak for= others,=C2=A0 but I have gotten ripped off when I first joined and it real= ly sucked,=C2=A0 so this "KEEP EVERYTHING IN ESCROW"=C2=A0 definitely made= my day brighter :).


PS....Anyone please I'm curious as to where= the BTC =3D Dollar value at the bottom of the SR homepage went?!=C2=A0 I= wanted to know how much my BTC were worth but I couldn't find it anywhere= on the site and it always used to be down on the left?=C2=A0 Any help plea= se :)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 12= , 2012, 12:56 pm
...there are issues with the running btc / $ ...its been taken off till= theres another or better solution..
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: keldog09 on January 12, 2012, 05:01= pm
I have zero issues with this policy change. As a business, SR has the= right to do what it pleases. If you don't like it, then create//find your= own alternative. There are plenty of source forums out there. Scamming has= become too large of a problem for out-of-escrow transactions to continue.= Finalizing early is another beast in itself and I'm really on the fence ab= out it. I've never gotten screwed over because of it but I've had some very= sketchy transactions with it as well.

SR, I love you like a love so= ng, baby. Keep on fightin the good fight!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: mseller on January 12, 2012, 05:17 pm=
That about scamming is interesting question. I would like to know some= facts in the numbers and how much bad (scams) transaction percentage is co= mpared to successful?
I can see thread "Sr scam list" with around 20 pag= es but thread "H vendors" has over 70 pages. Both thread started 20 days ap= art.
I am a vendor for 6 month and can easily calculate how much avrg tr= ansactions SR has a day 430 (avg for last 4 month).
If SR has 430 transa= ction a day that is 129000 a month. Let say that 1% (acceptable?) is bad/sc= am transactions. Its 129 transaction per month from both vendors and buyers= . Different story is how much those transaction worth. How many reports are= made for scams here in the forum on monthly basis and regradless is it buy= er or vendor??
Maybe I am little of the topic here but I would like to= discuss with some statistical facts and not speculations.

Another= issue what somebody mentioned - it will be difficult to prove who made a= direct payment outside of SR market. (wallet to wallet)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: psilocin on January 13, 2012, 12:06= am
Godspeed Silkroaders,

For more than 5 months I have been more or= less silent observer of this revolutionary project, and in near future I= plan on becoming more active.

With the risk of being judged by the= community I must say that SR stuff deserved to charge even more than this.= I will not elaborate much, we all know that prices here are a bit higher= than street prices and you have total anonymity, which is by itself pricel= ess feature....and what are your profits in dealing with drugs?
C'mon pe= ople lets be honest! Can you compare yourself to someone who sells snickers= and sunglasses on eBay? Who is lucky to have 30% profit?

My humble= opinion is that SR have well deserved every penny from the transaction fee= s they propose.
Of course I'm addressing drugs which are ~99% of the tra= nsactions.

May the good force be with you all,
psi
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: oppyate on January 13, 2012, 01:11 am=
Somehow I just keep seeing this coming to some sort of Buyer Expense.= To tell you the Truth, I am A-ok, 100% peachy with it.

I'll pay fo= r a Silver or Platinum Standing (being Rated over 85% as a No Hassle, No Sc= am Buyer). If Im a Vendor, who are you going to Sell to?

A newbie= with 2 Transactions that pays as he goes or an Established Buyer that put= his Money Down to show he/she is serious about this stuff?

That wil= l stop Scam Buyers in their Tracks
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: collapses on January 13, 2012, 03:40= am
has the new fee schedule been implemented?=C2=A0 it appears that it is= being applied to my orders that were placed before implementation, ie stil= l in escrow.=C2=A0 If that is the case then that is very disingenuous.=C2= =A0 please correct me if i'm wrong.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 13,= 2012, 04:12 am
Quote= from: collapses on January 13, 2012, 03:40 am
has the new fee schedule been implemented?=C2= =A0 it appears that it is being applied to my orders that were placed befor= e implementation, ie still in escrow.=C2=A0 If that is the case then that= is very disingenuous.=C2=A0 please correct me if i'm wrong.

= It has been implemented and only applies to orders going forward, not ones= currently in escrow.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: doublemint on January 13, 2012, 08:12= am
I think its bullshit that we can no longer buy under 400$ without raise= d taxes. The majority of us DONT buy bulk off of silk road, and if you're= already spending 1,000 why cant you spend 60$ more? You talk about SR not= being about the money but the taxes you charge are ridiculous. I would rat= her see adds then this bullshit.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SpanishFly on January 13, 2012, 10:58= am
SR, a quick question.

Are the commissions applied to the list pr= ice or the list price plus the shipping costs?

If the shipping costs= are also subject to commission then we must increase them in accordance.
thanks and keep up the good work.

fly
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Variety Jones on January 13, 2012, 11= :30 am
Quote= from: SpanishFly on January 13, 2012, 10:58 am
Are the commissions applied to the list price= or the list price plus the shipping costs?

This issue was raised= before, and the commissions apply only to the list price, and not the ship= ping charges.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SpanishFly on January 13, 2012, 12:08= pm
Quote= from: Variety Jones on January 13, 2012, 11:30 am
Quote from: SpanishFly on January 13, 2012, 10:58 am<= /a>
Are the commission= s applied to the list price or the list price plus the shipping costs?

This issue was raised before, and the commissions apply only to the= list price, and not the shipping charges.


thanks VJ.
Quote from:= PharmaKarma on January 13, 2012, 11:42 am
After much internal debate, I said fuck it!=C2=A0= I made another donation to SR and the buyers will just have to pay more.= =C2=A0 Most of us don't make enough for the risk we take as it is so I am= certain most to none of the sellers will be lowering prices to compensate.= =C2=A0 It is what it is.

I think there might be another more= proactive solution for us vendors to take.

I have been analyzing th= e pricing structure and can see that the vendors need more information on= the pricing.

I don't think that the SR commission is a major probl= em nor the only expense that Vendors incur.

We must not forget 2 thi= ngs

1) The Hedging Ask-Spread cost avg. 4%,
2) The moving average= s exchange rate effect. I have noticed that there seems to be a discrepancy= of up to 5% between the BTC/U$D fx rates used when we are payed and the sp= ot price on mtgox. What this means is that if a vendor were to immediately= sell his coins he would incur an immediate 5% decrease in cash + the sprea= d between the spot rate and the next bids. Maybe even upto 10%.

To= calculate this, go the account page, see how much you were payed in BTC an= d then click on the transaction to see how much you were paid in U$D. Calcu= late the FX rate and this is the price you have to sell your BTC in order= not to lose out on the Moving averages impact.

Please note that the= second is the hidden cost of using the moving averages and it maybe where= the vendors can attack to be more profitable and to cover all commission= increases.

I think that it is important that the vendors be given= access to more financial info to be able to increase their profitability.<= br>
An excellent addition to Silk Road (IMHO) would be the following
= 1) Average FX Rates on all the transactions
2) The ability to download= data on an excel sheet, so that people can play around with it.

OK= guys, I admit I'm a bit of a Finance dork but I believe that this way and= with this info we can make our work here more profitable and cover SR's co= mmissions.

If we know that we are being given the BTC at a given FX= rate all we have to do is add a 10% to that price and then sell them and= we've made back the commission fee.

Us vendors must understand that= we are working with a highly volatile currency and if we use it to our fav= our can make this the most profitable business of our lives.

SR and= community, it would be great to have your feedback.

thanks

f= ly
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: edgarb on January 13, 2012, 06:26 pm<= /strong>
could someone please clarify something for me ?=C2=A0 (i have read 90%= of the thread and see no obvious answer)

if i buy 10x $49 items fro= m one vendor in one transaction, is the commission paid to SR still 10% ?
also one point (to vendors mainly):=C2=A0 it seems pointless to pay= the 4% hedging fee on escrow for items that are finalized early, since tho= se coins are only hedged for a couple of hours or so.=C2=A0 an un-hedged,= finalize-early-only listing would save that 4%, although i admit, it's not= very elegant.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 13,= 2012, 11:35 pm
Quote= from: edgarb on January 13, 2012, 06:26 pm
could someone please clarify something for me ?=C2= =A0 (i have read 90% of the thread and see no obvious answer)

if i= buy 10x $49 items from one vendor in one transaction, is the commission pa= id to SR still 10% ?

also one point (to vendors mainly):=C2=A0 it se= ems pointless to pay the 4% hedging fee on escrow for items that are finali= zed early, since those coins are only hedged for a couple of hours or so.= =C2=A0 an un-hedged, finalize-early-only listing would save that 4%, althou= gh i admit, it's not very elegant.

In this case the commissio= n would be calculated for $490, not $49 and then multiplied by 10.=C2=A0 In= other words, less commission is charged for larger orders whether it is on= e $490 item, or ten $49 items.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SuperDimitri on January 13, 2012, 11:= 38 pm
If vendors aren't allowed to go OOE or require Early Finalize, then why= are most still doing this for new consumers? I wuold like to place some or= ders, but the vendors won't allow it, unless=C2=A0 I finalize early.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: mseller on January 13, 2012, 11:47 pm=
Quote= from: SuperDimitri on January 13, 2012, 11:38 pm
If vendors aren't allowed to go OOE or requi= re Early Finalize, then why are most still doing this for new consumers? I= wuold like to place some orders, but the vendors won't allow it, unless=C2= =A0 I finalize early.
OOE and early finalize is not the same thin= g. OOE is banned as transaction is not evident and SR have not his share (f= ee).
Early finalize is still allowed by SR clearification.

Quote from: Si= lk Road on January 09, 2012, 06:05 am

Just to be clear, no mention of banning finalizing= early was made.=C2=A0 We recognize the cash-flow needs of vendors and are= working to address these needs while preventing scams arising from finaliz= ing early.=C2=A0 At this point though, while we advise buyers to avoid fina= lizing early at all costs, vendors are still free to request it.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SuperDimitri on January 13, 2012, 11:= 59 pm
thank you mseller.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrDdroMcGillacutty on January 14, 201= 2, 06:57 am
OOE I understand. Its dangerous and you can lose your account. What I= do NOT understand is HOW VENDORS can make new buyers finalize early? And= how did 3-5 transactions now make you (the buyer) eligible not to have to= finalize early? No longer a noob buyer...? WHY do BUYERS put up with it??= Being FORCED to finalize early!! ITS ALL HORSESH*T!!

Follow the sit= e rules and suggestions. THEY WORK!! Finalize upon arrival!! Leave comments= after your experience. But release those bitcoins!! Your VENDORS WORK HARD= !!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: SpanishFly on January 14, 2012, 02:36= pm
Quote= from: MrDdroMcGillacutty on January 14, 2012, 06:57 am
OOE I understand. Its dangerous and yo= u can lose your account. What I do NOT understand is HOW VENDORS can make= new buyers finalize early? And how did 3-5 transactions now make you (the= buyer) eligible not to have to finalize early? No longer a noob buyer...?= WHY do BUYERS put up with it?? Being FORCED to finalize early!! ITS ALL HO= RSESH*T!!

Follow the site rules and suggestions. THEY WORK!! Finaliz= e upon arrival!! Leave comments after your experience. But release those bi= tcoins!! Your VENDORS WORK HARD!!

Hi, I don't want to get gri= lled on this one but I'm going to try to speak out for all those vendors wh= o do finalize early (so please no attacking) :P

We've got to separat= e between finalizing early and excellence in customer service, I have perso= nally created a risk profile where I believe that it's ok to ask a customer= to finalize early (in no way do I believe it's a scam as I state this clea= rly and the customer agrees to these conditions).

Now, the customers= must look to what finalize early means for them, in my case even if they= finalize early they are still covered (hence the reason why I have 100% po= sitive feedback). If a package doesn't arrive then I resend, + another very= important point is to be 100% at the buyers disposal for questions, etc.
In effect for a customer to purchase from me, finalizing early is no= different but on my side a I guarantee myself that I'm not going to get an= y newbie mistakes such as not finalizing at all. It takes time to learn abo= ut how this world works and vendors shouldn't have their capital tied in pe= ople learning how it works.

The reason the finalizing early model ca= n be sustained is because the buyers have the power to change feedback afte= r the transaction has been made, therefore if a vendor is scamming people= by finalizing early it will soon be seen in his ratings (remember the Turk= ish guy selling heroin, for example). This is the model used by sites like= ebay.

I hope I don't get grilled on this one.

What is import= ant is not the finalize early option but the customer service given to the= buyer.

Work hard for the buyer and he will compensate you by coming= back.

or that's the theory, lol

fly



Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: UK107 on January 17, 2012, 07:11 pm
How are you going to address buyers not finalising their orders once th= ey received their goods?

My customers tend to get their orders next= day, maximum 3-4 working days as I deliver locally. There isn't any need= for me to be waiting 17+ days for the automatic process to kick in. What's= worse is that it's even longer. I had to wait 20+ days the last time as it= was stuck on "processing" after the 17 days had elapsed.

The reason= I asked for early payment is because I know as soon as they get their good= s the last thing on peoples minds is wanting to load up Silk Road to finali= se a payment. As far as their concerned the escrow system will take care of= it.

Is there any chance you can integrate an ebay style rating syst= em so that vendors can rate buyers.

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: tabbenoit on January 17, 2012, 11:42= pm
Quote= from: UK107 on January 17, 2012, 07:11 pm
How are you going to address buyers not finalising= their orders once they received their goods?

My customers tend to= get their orders next day, maximum 3-4 working days as I deliver locally.= There isn't any need for me to be waiting 17+ days for the automatic proce= ss to kick in. What's worse is that it's even longer. I had to wait 20+ day= s the last time as it was stuck on "processing" after the 17 days had elaps= ed.

The reason I asked for early payment is because I know as soon= as they get their goods the last thing on peoples minds is wanting to load= up Silk Road to finalise a payment. As far as their concerned the escrow= system will take care of it.

Is there any chance you can integrate= an ebay style rating system so that vendors can rate buyers.
Too bad there wasn't a way to use DCN as a means of forcing finalization,= say a week after delivery confirmation funds are finalized unless a disput= e is launched.=C2=A0 I realize there are probably a hundred reasons revolvi= ng around security as to why this couldn't be done.=C2=A0 Maybe incentives= to finalize promptly on the part of vendor or something.=C2=A0 I totally= get why this has to suck if you're a vendor.=C2=A0 People are assholes, "s= hit got my bag of coke, I ain't loggin' in too much of a pain in the ass"
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Variety Jones on January 18, 2012, 04= :47 am
Actually, a 'the item arrived, I have the DCN' button wouldn't be a bad= idea.

Vendor enters DCN and hits the button; Resolution Center staf= f can confirm the DCN, and put it instantly into resolution.

If the= customer doesn't appeal within 48 hrs - more than reasonable if there is= already proof of delivery - then escrow auto-releases.

If the custo= mer does appeal, it can be handled just like a normal resolution where the= vendor has a confirmed DCN.

Vendors will get their money over 10 da= ys sooner than the present system.

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Bikerbum on January 18, 2012, 11:38= am
Quote= from: Christy Nugs on January 09, 2012, 05:38 am
I am nothing but in agreement with this poli= cy because it has been mine from the very first day I started here.
I ha= ve never asked anyone whoever to finalize early and I never will.
While= I know this place isn't as secure as ovdb I know that they r trying and I= really do appreciate the anonymity .
I appreciate it and I am willing= to pay for it. My policy has been from day one to split the cost of the co= mmission with the buyer.
I am more than happy to do this because I am a= business woman. It's all included in the cost of doing business with the= peace of mind that
I receive here.
I grow everything I sell so mayb= e I have less to lose than those that buy and resell.=C2=A0 WTF Quit crying= !!!
This is long overdue from what I can tell. I read al kinds of posts= that decry "SCAMMER".
I have recently gone to the trouble of totally ch= anging my os to linux - a completely foreign os to me.
I am in the proce= ss of learning this os ( just because of this site) to be safer. As soon as= i figure it out ima switch to virtual.
It isn't fun for=C2=A0 me and im= a pulling my hair out but wtf - u hear me crying? NO!!!
This is a busine= ss - don't like it? GTFO......
Cheers SR and btw nice set of balls.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0:)

All my love to the crybaby's;
<3 Christy

Now that's what I like hearing, a businessperson with ethics.
You= seem to have a nice set of balls too, Christy.

Bikerbum
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Sunwarrior on January 18, 2012, 07:16= pm
SR,

I agree on all the principles and the very goals the communi= ty has got, BUT........

As many had pointed out, we we'll be paying= more fee than before if we buy stuff cheaper than 300 bucks or so.

= Please reconsider the fee arrangement by paying more on even smaller prices= , something like 200 bucks would be allright, IMO.

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Variety Jones on January 20, 2012, 02= :15 am
Quote= from: PharmaKarma on January 19, 2012, 09:47 pm
Your idea with Variety Jones simplicity, soun= ds GREAT!

I've written up some notes and a link to this threa= d and fired it off to SR.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: newbyuno on January 20, 2012, 12:49= pm
I just don't understand how this will help stop scammers. It seems like= a price hike and that's all. This change will do nothing to stop scam vend= ors. How long will we pretend asking for early finalize is ok from new vend= ors when we see over and over and over that new members will still fall for= the same old scam. I just see this as "let's change everything, without ch= anging anything."

I'm fine with a rate increase , but let's call a= spade a spade.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Tryptamine on January 20, 2012, 07:19= pm
Quote= from: Variety Jones on January 18, 2012, 04:47 am
Actually, a 'the item arrived, I have the= DCN' button wouldn't be a bad idea.

Vendor enters DCN and hits the= button; Resolution Center staff can confirm the DCN, and put it instantly= into resolution.

If the customer doesn't appeal within 48 hrs - mor= e than reasonable if there is already proof of delivery - then escrow auto-= releases.

If the customer does appeal, it can be handled just like= a normal resolution where the vendor has a confirmed DCN.

Vendors= will get their money over 10 days sooner than the present system.

E= asy peasy, lemon squeezy.

Vendor could just send an empty= package with DCN and have it auto-finalize.

I think we should just= shorten the auto-finalize time by a few days.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anchientlib on January 23, 2012, 08:0= 2 pm
I also never ask for finalizing early, it actually helps me keep track= of everything easier anyway.=C2=A0 Sometimes I'll have 8 or 10 orders all= going out at once and if someone does have a problem, I can't remember the= m all if they have finalized early and disappeared from the orders, so I pr= efer they just wait until it arrives.

Libby
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: cynicmonkey on January 24, 2012, 10:0= 8 pm
FYI the signature doesn't check out. Maybe some forum formatting issue?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: ratex on January 28, 2012, 10:59 am
Perhaps allow sellers to create a custom auto-finalize time for differe= nt shipping options.

E.g a UK seller could set 7-days auto finalize= terms for domestic UK - UK orders. Buyers should have visibility of the fi= nalize time the seller has set before buying and if they don't like it they= don't have to buy. $0.02

Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: professorx on January 29, 2012, 06:33= pm
I'm going to have to chime in and complain that the new fees are way to= o high for small sellers.=C2=A0 Vendors moving anything from an eighth to= an ounces of weed will be screwed hard by this.=C2=A0 The fee + shipping= leaves a very tight margin, and unless the vendor is growing it himself,= this may price him out of the market and make selling smaller more trouble= than its worth.

Smaller amounts are important, they reduce the risk= in a single transaction and reduce the LE risk.=C2=A0 No one will break do= wn your door for a quarter ounce of weed in a priority envelop.=C2=A0 Some= buyers might start to get nervous beyond an ounce.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Then there= are buyers who don't really need more than a quarter or an ounce.

Y= ou are going to choke revenues and growth.=C2=A0 CUT YOUR PRICES!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Courtneymillerjones1love on February= 05, 2012, 05:18 am
Very happy to be a part of this community. A real privlidge. ;D
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: koala on February 05, 2012, 06:01 am<= /strong>
Quote= from: professorx on January 29, 2012, 06:33 pm
I'm going to have to chime in and complain th= at the new fees are way too high for small sellers.=C2=A0 Vendors moving an= ything from an eighth to an ounces of weed will be screwed hard by this.=C2= =A0 The fee + shipping leaves a very tight margin, and unless the vendor is= growing it himself, this may price him out of the market and make selling= smaller more trouble than its worth.

Smaller amounts are important,= they reduce the risk in a single transaction and reduce the LE risk.=C2=A0= No one will break down your door for a quarter ounce of weed in a priority= envelop.=C2=A0 Some buyers might start to get nervous beyond an ounce.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Then there are buyers who don't really need more than a quarter= or an ounce.

You are going to choke revenues and growth.=C2=A0 CUT= YOUR PRICES!


Fees are high because SR takes ALOT to keep= running. People are even on payroll now. On another note, this keeps serio= us sellers on here and turns off punks that want to rip us off and duck n= run.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: MrDdroMcGillacutty on February 06, 20= 12, 01:49 pm
I'm just happy to be here and play the game.=C2=A0 ;D=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Thormax on February 08, 2012, 10:01= am
Quot= e from: koala on February 05, 2012, 06:01 am
Quote from: professorx on January 29, 2012, 06:33 pm
I'm going to have to chi= me in and complain that the new fees are way too high for small sellers.=C2= =A0 Vendors moving anything from an eighth to an ounces of weed will be scr= ewed hard by this.=C2=A0 The fee + shipping leaves a very tight margin, and= unless the vendor is growing it himself, this may price him out of the mar= ket and make selling smaller more trouble than its worth.

Smaller am= ounts are important, they reduce the risk in a single transaction and reduc= e the LE risk.=C2=A0 No one will break down your door for a quarter ounce= of weed in a priority envelop.=C2=A0 Some buyers might start to get nervou= s beyond an ounce.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Then there are buyers who don't really need= more than a quarter or an ounce.

You are going to choke revenues an= d growth.=C2=A0 CUT YOUR PRICES!


Fees are high because SR= takes ALOT to keep running. People are even on payroll now. On another not= e, this keeps serious sellers on here and turns off punks that want to rip= us off and duck n run.

higher prices do nothing to deter scu= mbags.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Joy on February 11, 2012, 05:38 pm
Ok.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on February= 12, 2012, 11:25 am
some thoughts:-
- on some products its possible to shift more in a= single delivery.

- delivery successes are proven.

- it may= mean supply & demand for specific subs need to adjust themselves local= ly and / or globally.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Angelology on February 12, 2012, 02:1= 1 pm
Quote= from: Dread Pirate Roberts on January 09, 2012, 03:56 am
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----Hash: SHA1

- From it's humble beginnings, the Silk Road market was= quickly populated with what has become a vibrant community full of interes= ting characters.=C2=A0 From our superstar vendors and ever helpful mods to= all of the active folks on the forum, the people here are truly awesome.= =C2=A0 Silk Road would not be what it is or possibly even exist without eve= ryone who has stepped up along the way to point out security flaws, contrib= ute their ideas, and take this experiment on as their own and stand with us= .

It didn't take long before word got out.=C2=A0 Our little hidden= market got the attention of the media and soon the politicians and law enf= orcement.=C2=A0 But Silk Road was never meant to be private and exclusive.= =C2=A0 It is meant to grow into a force to be reckoned with that can challe= nge the powers that be and at last give people the option to choose freedom= over tyranny.=C2=A0 We fundamentally believe that people can thrive and pr= osper under these conditions and so far tens of thousands have done so in= the Silk Road market.=C2=A0 A revolution has been born.=C2=A0 So ideally,= more participants means more prosperity.=C2=A0 What we've found in practic= e is that if there is an opportunity to cheat, steal or lie for personal sh= ort-term gain, someone, somewhere will exploit it.

So, we've had two= major challenges to face as Silk Road grows and evolves.=C2=A0 One is maki= ng our systems tough enough and flexible enough to withstand and win a cybe= r-war with the most powerful organizations in the world, should they choose= to start that war.=C2=A0 This is always and ever a top priority.=C2=A0 The= other is making the market a place where people can quickly and easily buy= and sell just about anything without worrying about being attacked by gun= toting men in uniforms and thrown in a cage or worry about being ripped of= f by their trading partner.

I am proud to say we have been successfu= l in achieving these goals up to this point.=C2=A0 The site remains up and= functioning (despite a few screw ups on our part, like not having a full= capacity backup server ready to go when a live server went down, and a poo= rly executed url switch, just to name a few).=C2=A0 And, over 99% of all tr= ansactions conducted within the escrow system are completed to the satisfac= tion of both both buyer and seller, or a mutually agreed upon resolution is= found.

This success has in no way made us complacent however.=C2=A0= New members are still being lured into trading outside of escrow by scamme= rs and getting ripped off, and =E2=80=9Cfinalizing early=E2=80=9D, effectiv= ely cutting out the escrow process, is common practice.=C2=A0 Still, I beli= eve we can mitigate these risks and take our market to the next level in se= curity, reliability, performance, and convenience for everyone involved.
First we must deal with trading out of escrow.=C2=A0 Up to this point= we have charged a flat 6.23% commission on all trades.=C2=A0 This is much= too high for transactions in the $300 and over range, making trading out= of escrow for large transactions much more attractive than staying within= the system.=C2=A0 Now, instead of charging a flat commission, we will char= ge a higher amount for low priced items and a lower amount for high priced= items, similar to how eBay does it.

We've worked hard to come up wi= th a commission schedule that should work for everyone and will give scamme= rs no excuse to make people send money outside of escrow.=C2=A0 For some pe= rspective, eBay and amazon charge the following rates:

eBay=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0- $0.50 to list, 11% of the first $50, 6% of $50.01-1000, 2%= of $1000.01+
amazon - $1.35 + 15% (for almost all items)

We also= went to the Silk Road independent sellers to see what they thought an appr= opriate commission schedule would look like.=C2=A0 The average response loo= ked like this:

15% of the first $10
11% of $10 - $50
8.14% of= $50 - $250
5.6% of $250 - $1000
3.7% of $1000 - $5000

We look= ed at past sales data and our current and future revenue needs and were abl= e to bring these numbers down even further:

10% of the first $50
= 8.5% of $50 - 150
6% of $150 - 300
3% of $300 - 500
2% of $500 -= 1000
1.5% for everything over $1000

With this change, there are= no phoney excuses whatsoever for vendors to ask for out of escrow payment.= =C2=A0 Any request should be interpreted as a scam attempt and reported to= the Silk Road support team via the =E2=80=9Ccontact us=E2=80=9D link on th= e main site.=C2=A0 We are looking at several mechanisms for enforcing the= ban on OOE transactions, from self-policing to bounties on offenders.
<= br>Together, we can beat the scammers and make the Silk Road market a place= where you can buy with confidence and peace of mind.=C2=A0 If we stay true= to our principles of integrity, virtue, mutual respect and camaraderie tha= t have guided us to this point, I believe our future is bright and this rev= olutionary experiment will be a success!

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CLARIFICATION:=C2= =A0 The new policy regarding out of escrow transactions stated in this addr= ess does not affect a vendor's ability to ask their customers to finalize= their orders and release payment before shipment.=C2=A0 We still strongly= recommend that buyers avoid doing this at all costs because we will be una= ble to protect you in case of fraud.

CLARIFICATION:=C2=A0 This new= policy also does not affect vendors who use the market as a platform for= Bitcoin exchange.=C2=A0 They may continue to operate as usual, but again= we strongly recommend that you purchase bitcoins through a non-anonymous= vendor because the market is not set up to facilitate bitcoin exchange and= your money can be stolen without recourse.

FURTHER COMMENTARY: http= ://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3D8539.0
No, this just= means out of escrow purchases will be more common on low cost items.=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Joy on February 17, 2012, 02:52 pm
Forgot to remind Dread Pirate Roberts to please invest more on security= .

Regards
J 8)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: oktoy on February 22, 2012, 01:05 pm<= /strong>
I haven't read this entire thread, but I have been thinking about the= OP for a while and this is my firm objection.

Silk Road is not like= eBay

It's more like a craigslist, it connects sellers with SR and= deserves a payment, but it's not a bidding site.

The more you buy,= the bigger the risk

I have bought $300+ orders before and would hap= pily do so again, but they didn't arrive. Customs is more likely to take a= peak a larger packages. So I order 1 month supply of meds at a time, which= are usually sold as packs of ten. So I order 3-6 orders of 10 doses each.= If they are all now 15% more, that's passed on to me. I've already seen se= llers stop selling my meds, and others raise prices 30%. Theoretically, I= could buy $300 at once and be better off, but previous experience tells me= it's not getting through customs.

There are other ways to make mone= y

Seller registration, escrow services, how about front page adverti= sing for sellers? Why make me pay for lower, safer quantity which only make= s me think twice about using SR instead of other sources?

I'd love= to buy bulk and avoid the fee increase, but this isn't Sam's Club/Costco,= I can lose $300 worth of meds to customs if I buy in that amount.

I= t's bad for sellers too

I understand "finalizing early" too. It's an= noying to see so many reviews that don't say whether something arrived or= was legit, but sellers can't control customs inspections. They also might= not want to sell to someone with low reputation. So who wins here? No one,= SR is damaged because we're driven away.

SR, good while it lasted.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: amush on February 25, 2012, 01:08 am<= /strong>
Um, I just made an private order for 74,18BTC which is well over the $3= 00 mark and it is def not being taxed at 3%

I looked at it on the pa= ge and it was at 79.13. 4.95BTC extra.
That is like in the 6.67%

= Or am I missing something here?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Tryptamine on February 25, 2012, 05:3= 9 am
Quot= e from: amush on February 25, 2012, 01:08 am
Um, I just made an private order for 74,18BTC whi= ch is well over the $300 mark and it is def not being taxed at 3%

I= looked at it on the page and it was at 79.13. 4.95BTC extra.
That is li= ke in the 6.67%

The tax is cumulative. So you'd be paying 10% on the= first $50, 8.5% on the next $100, et cetera.
Or am I missing something= here?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on February= 25, 2012, 09:50 pm
Quot= e from: oktoy on February 22, 2012, 01:05 pm
I haven't read this entire thread, but I have bee= n thinking about the OP for a while and this is my firm objection.

S= ilk Road is not like eBay

It's more like a craigslist, it connects= sellers with SR and deserves a payment, but it's not a bidding site.
<= /div>
- dont know what craigslist is no chance i have any use for it
= - silk road isn't ebay but its the feedback that is interesting and works,= visualise the buy / sell and how it is rated, i don't know of
=C2=A0= another site that does any better...whether its bidding is irrelevant its= still a sale.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anarcho47 on February 25, 2012, 10:28= pm
Silk road is like Amazon.=C2=A0 It is a platform where individual selle= rs can offer products across a broad variety of categories.=C2=A0 They are= left feedback based on the success of the transaction.=C2=A0 It is not a= classified's listing like craigslist or kijiji, which are only service pro= viders and can not be held legally responsible for the content posted on th= eir sites (i.e. hitman offering to kill someone on craigslist).

Amaz= on can be held liable if someone were to offer up a hitman contract.=C2=A0= They are not just a service provider, they are an actual market which moni= tors sellers and take a fee for transactions completed.=C2=A0 The same as= SR.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Tobacco2012 on March 09, 2012, 10:51= am
I might be new here on SR, and want to become a seller, but I'm not new= to The Bitcoins, web markets and business.

The SR apart from the id= ea it is a business place, and an revenue place for the creators of the SR.= And they should earn as much as possible. They had an idea they made it an= d it should be appreciated by all users. This business have to grow =3D gro= wing means more money it creates. And it should stay that way.
From what= I can see now there is a problem (not a big of a deal but still) with some= dishonest traders, either buyers or sellers, and Bitcoin fluctuation (but= lets assume, that this fluctuations are sometimes pros, sometimes cons, de= pend on an individual opinion)

I only have a suggestion as a new use= r who wants to become a seller, and if this suggestion is already implement= ed that I'm sorry don't mind my post at all.
To grow, SR needs more sell= ers and buyers, with more "legal and illegal" goods. The idea of purchasing= an seller account is very good, it prevents more dishonest traders to appe= ar. But for new sellers that really want to be honest it is quite a lot of= cash, and as am I, this comes with worries about buyers.
My idea about= reading this forum is quite simple.
For new buyers escrow is obligatory= (it seems that it would be in a short while for all) but they cannot "fina= lize early" - but could they list an item with a condition that only buyers= with XXX ratings can buy from him? That way one can be a bit more secure,= it will prevent from random orders and giving a bad feedback. This will pr= event scamming by seller and buyers.
After the seller become trusty, he= can than choose to not to sell to new users (but probably will not), and= make an option for users to finalize it early. This finalizing early thing= is good too. The bitcoins are still processed through the escrow system so= the commission is charged to SR. And established seller can help grow the= SR by accepting new buyers w/o a risk of being scammed by them. Let's face= it. No one would want to be scammed either seller, buyers, and especially= SR.
I cannot tell about the commission is it high or moderate or low -= i don't think about that. But to be honest it probably will be added to fi= nal price for buyers.

In other simple words, SR needs to evolve, by= making more buyers, sellers and especially money, but it has to be more fr= iendly too. So basic suggestion is simple limitations for new buyers and se= llers to prevent scammers.=C2=A0

SR is a good idea for The Bitcoins= , one has to pay some money to become seller that is why customers might th= ink that the seller is legit, but what about new buyers? Seller has to be= protected too. But there is no simple solution for all these problems. As= many ppl there are there would be as many opinion on that matter.

= I really hope that SR will grow more, and more.


Maybe all these= things is not a big of a deal - let say 1% of all users are scammers,? tha= n my post is pointless. But after the growth of SR more seller and buyers= will come and than it could become a problem.

Regards
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on March 09,= 2012, 01:13 pm
Quot= e from: anarcho47 on February 25, 2012, 10:28 pm
Silk road is like Amazon.=C2=A0 It is a platf= orm where individual sellers can offer products across a broad variety of= categories.=C2=A0 They are left feedback based on the success of the trans= action.=C2=A0 It is not a classified's listing like craigslist or kijiji,= which are only service providers and can not be held legally responsible= for the content posted on their sites (i.e. hitman offering to kill someon= e on craigslist).

Amazon can be held liable if someone were to offer= up a hitman contract.=C2=A0 They are not just a service provider, they are= an actual market which monitors sellers and take a fee for transactions co= mpleted.=C2=A0 The same as SR.
<= div class=3D"botslice_quote">

- yes you are right, the sale= side of it is is less ebay and more amazon..i don't do much buying to pick= out the fine differences between ebay
=C2=A0 feedback and amazon's....o= k
=C2=A0;)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: 5446 on March 10, 2012, 11:27 pm
I LOVE your passion, keep up the great work!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on March 19,= 2012, 10:12 pm
- i=C2=A0 =C2=A0g e t=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0i t=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0n o w.<= br>
- its been bothering me for some time now, and have had to re-run th= e points in my head stated by 1 or 2 to decipher why things are the way the= y are...

- there's no need for me to state why its flogging a dead= horse ...and since i'm new to the movement its all been real foreign to me= .


thanks
=C2=A0;)
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Limetless on March 31, 2012, 09:41 pm=
Just got here but I think SR is a genius idea and loving it so far. Muc= h love for whoever invented this gem and those who make it work!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anarcho47 on April 01, 2012, 02:16 pm=
Quot= e from: PharmaKarma on April 01, 2012, 12:45 pm
Quote from: anarcho47 on January 09, 2012, 04:47 am=
I have mixed feelings= .=C2=A0 Looks like bulk is going to be out of the picture on SR from now on= .
=

Why do you say that?=C2=A0 Is 1.5% a deal breaker?=C2=A0 = =C2=A0And if fees go down as a person spends more, how would this negativel= y affect the buyer or bulk seller?

Peace PK

me pulling= bulk from SR has nothing to do with the fees, but the other changes.=C2=A0= I used to do 75% of my business on here completely OOE, where people would= send me the funds directly then purchase a 0.01BTC listing to leave feedba= ck.=C2=A0 I would only do bulk this way.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: lolzer on April 01, 2012, 06:57 pm
there are already other sites with lower/no fees... (for example BMR at= http://5onwnspjvuk7cwvk.onion/ or HackBB at http://clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion/= ).

the problem i see is that there are many different products. to= sell an ebook or CVVs for example is no risky business and can be passed= along in large amounts. sending 2 pounds of skunk from US to AU however is= pretty much tossing it into the toilet, as it most probably will get seize= d by customs. same goes for a kilo of coke sent from ecuador to the united= states.

of course, no one says that a bulk order has to be sent in= bulk. might as well be sent in several small packages... sticking to domes= tic providers will always be more secure though, obviously.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Mister Dank on April 05, 2012, 06:42= pm
The rates are too high and indicative of a lack of competition. Why are= n't there more sites like this?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: cacoethes on April 05, 2012, 09:25 pm=
I logged into BMR about a month ago...=C2=A0 It looked like a pretty lo= nely place.=C2=A0 Has it picked up?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: tootiefruitie on April 23, 2012, 03:3= 9 am
i was lurking on BMR about a week ago.=C2=A0 quite a bit of activity,= but from what i saw there is no sort of escrow system whatsoever.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Freeman on April 23, 2012, 08:07 am
Quot= e from: Mister Dank on April 05, 2012, 06:42 pm
The rates are too high and indicative of a la= ck of competition. Why aren't there more sites like this?
<= div class=3D"quotefooter">

Pro= hibition raises the cost of entry and prices most of the competition out of= the market.=C2=A0 The only people left willing to do it at such high risk= are few and far between.=C2=A0 Those with the desire AND the competence to= do it well are fewer and farther between.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: lolzer on April 24, 2012, 05:11 pm
Quot= e from: tootiefruitie on April 23, 2012, 03:39 am
i was lurking on BMR about a week ago.=C2=A0= quite a bit of activity, but from what i saw there is no sort of escrow sy= stem whatsoever.
quite the opposite actually. finalizing early is= the exception on BMR and using escrow is not only highly encouraged but ex= pected. the only downsides i see is relatively frequent downtimes and the= smaller userbase compared to SR. all in all it's good to see some healthy= competition.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: tootiefruitie on April 25, 2012, 03:0= 9 pm
yeah, you're totally right... just went back and looked at it

gu= ess i didn't spend enough time skimming it before!

although, a lot= of vendors had very few recent transactions for the items that i'm interes= ted it
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: Elephant in the room on May 02, 2012,= 10:29 am
Jeez, it's good that out of escrow transactions were banned, I haven't= heard of scamming sellers for months now! Thank You, DPR!!!! It's all abou= t protecting us, not about getting a profit from scams, you doubters you!
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: cindylove on May 02, 2012, 02:54 pm
Quot= e from: Elephant in the room on May 02, 2012, 10:29 am
Jeez, it's good that out of escrow tran= sactions were banned, I haven't heard of scamming sellers for months now!= Thank You, DPR!!!! It's all about protecting us, not about getting a profi= t from scams, you doubters you!
=

How about banning people who,= scam after scam still CHOOSE to finalize early?
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: lilith2u on May 03, 2012, 03:24 pm
Quot= e from: Elephant in the room on May 02, 2012, 10:29 am
Jeez, it's good that out of escrow tran= sactions were banned, I haven't heard of scamming sellers for months now!= Thank You, DPR!!!! It's all about protecting us, not about getting a profi= t from scams, you doubters you!
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0You haven't heard of= scams in months? are we on the same SR? Tony76, paythepiper, ect ect?=20
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: tootiefruitie on May 04, 2012, 02:40= am
sar=C2=B7casm
=E2=80=82 =E2=80=82[sahr-kaz-uhm]
noun
1.
har= sh or bitter derision or irony.
2.
a sharply ironical taunt; sneering= or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: iandroid on May 04, 2012, 06:52 am
Quote= from: goldgutted on January 09, 2012, 04:50 am
I think the bigger problem is the amount of= scammer sellers. Especially scam LSD vendors. There needs to be a policy= implemented for new sellers, so that they cannot do out of escrow or else= they will be subject to deletion.

Agreed
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: raven92 on May 04, 2012, 06:57 am
Quot= e from: iandroid on May 04, 2012, 06:52 am
Quote from: goldgutted on January 09, 2012, 04:50 am
I think the bigger problem= is the amount of scammer sellers. Especially scam LSD vendors. There needs= to be a policy implemented for new sellers, so that they cannot do out of= escrow or else they will be subject to deletion.

Agreed
<= /blockquote>
=

But this wont do anything to vendors who go rogue after months li= ke Mike.Murphy, Tony76, Noeirga and im sure countless others. The only real= solution would be ban FE period.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: knicknack on May 16, 2012, 04:27 am
Although escrow is a pain in the ass to reputable vendors like myself,= =C2=A0 with every one of their patrons 100% happy,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I'm all= for it.
It's a pain not to be able to re-up when I want to but not a hu= ge pain.
Not being able to sell anonymously would be a far bigger pain.<= br>I am currently encouraging, not demanding out of escrow transactions.I was told in no uncertain terms by silk road admin that I could do this.<= br>If they ever told me to stop, I would, immediately and without malice.I think it speaks volumes for any vendor to disagree.
Escrow is a fabu= lous idea, without people feeling safe about ordering where the fuck would= we be? Standing on a goddam street corner, that's where.
Should people= trust a vendors stats? In a word, NO!
And in the words of the great Ton= y Montana "Who do I trust? ME! Tha's who!".
I'll get off my soap box now= .
Thanks Silk Road, you guys rock.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: knicknack on May 16, 2012, 04:40 am
Just to clarify I thought OOE and FE were the same thing.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: anarcho47 on May 16, 2012, 09:18 pm
Quot= e from: knicknack on May 16, 2012, 04:40 am
Just to clarify I thought OOE and FE were the same= thing.

OOE is where you are directly sending BTC to a userna= me via the account page, bypassing the entire order/checkout/escrow/shippin= g information, etc.

FE is where you order as normally but you finali= ze and release the funds from escrow before the item has shipped.
Title: Re: State of the Road Address
Post by: fuckthepolice101 on July 14, 2012, 11= :36 am
Quote= from: warweed on January 09, 2012, 04:10 am
No that's absolute bullshit for guys like me perf= ect example I sell digital good the only way i make ANYTHING is by volume= not by amount my current average price is .14 btc I am going to have to lo= wer that to .07 and you want to take 15 % on top of that ? common that's a= crock of shit and unless you want me to put up 4,000 listings for 4,000 di= fferent items so i can increase my front page time i can't have 15% it lite= rally makes me as a seller pointless it's like im in china make shoes for= a slave driver just to make my btc

Sorry everyone - I just= have to out this chump.

Warweed, your products are shit. Everything= you sell you can find on torrent sites for free.

You say " it liter= ally makes me as a seller pointless it's like im in china make shoes for a= slave driver just to make my btc"

to that I say: A smart man would= find a better job than making shoes like a slave or maybe actually selling= something worth while.

All of your seller stats are based on shill= buys. Its not hard to sit there and send yourself 0.1btc and write a good= review about yourself - and because its digital you can do this multiple= times a day without it looking suspicious (or so you think)

We see= through your bullshit, warweed.

By the way, your dox are easy enou= gh to find as you use the same handle in the Canadian hacking scene. You we= re already dox'd years back. Remember when you received that huge phone bil= l just after christmas? That was because we set up a conf on your dime beca= use you are a chump.

The only reason you haven't been shut down by= LE is because you're not worth their time.=C2=A0 What are they going to bu= st you on? Copywrite infringement?

Don't think that im trying to ex= pose you - you've already exposed yourself. You can say that you're just a= warweed amongst many warweeds on the internet but we all know.
http://w= ww.youtube.com/user/warweed

The only reason I created this forum acc= ount was to point out the obvious



Also: You sucked in the Ca= nadian hacking scene and you suck on SR.=20
=09