Silk Road forums

Market => Product requests => Topic started by: adx99 on January 12, 2013, 11:44 am

Title: gray market muling
Post by: adx99 on January 12, 2013, 11:44 am
There are countries where customs and taxes are really high for consumer products that are really nothing special in another country.  Take a blender for example, it will be at least 20% more expensive in Europe than the US due to VAT, maybe 100% more expensive in some South American countries due to all kinds of silly rules and restrictions.

The only real way around it is to fly in with "personal items" in your luggage, which are not taxed, or get someone to do it for you.  Finding someone can be a pain, plus there are weight limits, checked bag fees, etc to worry about.

I know there is an established "network" for iPhones like this, flight attendants and such mule them around to different places.

There was a website out of Buenos Aires a few years back called "the mule pool" that went up and down about a year ago; it was just a simple marketplace for people traveling back and forth between different countries - buyers post what they want, sellers post their availability, nothing complicated.  I think it went down because 1) it is definitely against the rules of whatever the import country is.  OK everyone does it, but if the website gets any kind of scale it will attract heat.  and 2) using any kind of mainstream escrow system would be pretty difficult due to the gray market nature. 

Based on what I've seen bitcoin / silk road is really the only solution if there is going to be a marketplace, and you don't have a flight attendant as a friend etc.

Here's the thought: a similar setup on silk road - someone flying between A and B, offering eg 30 pounds of luggage space.  Cost of the item and all fees escrowed until final delivery.  Any ideas?


Title: Re: gray market muling
Post by: OJP on January 12, 2013, 11:46 am
do it.
Title: Re: gray market muling
Post by: nanpa2001 on January 12, 2013, 11:51 am
SR is DEFINITELY the wrong place to have this kind of service. Imagine how many people will get arrested because someone on SR disguised drugs as a legitimate package?
Title: Re: gray market muling
Post by: GetYourFix on January 12, 2013, 12:09 pm
SR is DEFINITELY the wrong place to have this kind of service. Imagine how many people will get arrested because someone on SR disguised drugs as a legitimate package?
If any vendor or buyer was stupid enough to participate in this, then they have knotted their own noose. This is a ridiculous idea. Those things that blur out private parts on the television don't do the same thing in real life for your face when it's a customs officer on the other end of your encrypted flight details rofl.
Title: Re: gray market muling
Post by: adx99 on January 12, 2013, 08:53 pm
Actually the thought is more like person A in Argentina wants a widget from the USA and person B, after the funds go into escrow, agrees to buy it off Amazon and fly it over in his luggage.  Person A releases funds when he gets the widget. 

Granted person A would have to inspect the widget, but he should do that anyway, and it would be at some point after person B carried it through the customs check. 

Sure, I wouldn't agree to bring anything someone just gave me to transport.  But if I bought it myself, packed it myself, and handed it over to someone on the other end in return for a small fee, that's different.  Theoretically the widget is mine (and importable under whatever the personal property limit is) until I hand it over to someone else.  But I would have to know the other person would not flake and leave me with the widget and no buyer, thus the escrow.  And it is definitely gray market.

 
Title: Re: gray market muling
Post by: nanpa2001 on January 13, 2013, 07:31 am
Actually the thought is more like person A in Argentina wants a widget from the USA and person B, after the funds go into escrow, agrees to buy it off Amazon and fly it over in his luggage.  Person A releases funds when he gets the widget. 

Granted person A would have to inspect the widget, but he should do that anyway, and it would be at some point after person B carried it through the customs check. 

Sure, I wouldn't agree to bring anything someone just gave me to transport.  But if I bought it myself, packed it myself, and handed it over to someone on the other end in return for a small fee, that's different.  Theoretically the widget is mine (and importable under whatever the personal property limit is) until I hand it over to someone else.  But I would have to know the other person would not flake and leave me with the widget and no buyer, thus the escrow.  And it is definitely gray market.

There are already companies that do that. For example, http://www.myus.com/

No need to get into messy situations.
Title: Re: gray market muling
Post by: adx99 on January 14, 2013, 12:06 pm
Yep they will buy it for you but they will use a postal service or courier to send it and that's the problem.  If it's being mailed into a difficult country, it gets hit with duty taxes, delays, and all kinds of other screw-ups.  Has nothing to do with illicit products, just the products they have tariffs for, especially electronics.  You can fudge the "value of the contents" description but if it is being mailed through, you lose weeks and months hassling around with it and wind up paying anyway - at least in some problematic countries.  Carrying it as a personal item (or having someone else carry it as a personal item and then give it to you) is the only efficient way around it I'm aware of.