Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: dudeguy551 on 15 April 2012, 17:32:19
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I use to work for the united parcel service, not to be confused with
the USPS. This is the brown one, but I have been told the operations
are very similar but the USPS operates on a smaller scale, usually
handling mostly LETTERS. (put packages on accident, reason for editing)
Let
me walk you through the process of an envelope being sent at UPS and
you can extrapolate to alter your shipping methods if need be.
1)
Letter gets picked up from the box, sorted by hand and placed into what
is called a "Smalls bag". It is a nylon bag about 3ftx3ft and will scar
your hands up if they are too dry.
2) This bag is filled with items that are all going to the same sorting facility, no dogs are present at this point.
3) The bag makes its way to your local sorting facility where the planes and trucks reside.
(After this point the dogs are present but are not taken to every area and sometimes, not even used for a whole day)
4)
The bag is scanned, opened and placed on a rack so the employee doesn't
have to hold a 70lb bag while he manually scans every individual letter
and puts it in one of up to 10 different shoots which feed the letter
into another person who then puts it in another nylon bag.
5) This
nylon bag is then placed on a conveyor belt that runs the length of the
entire facility so that bags need not be carried or driven to their
loading destination.
6) The bags are sorted by a machine and sent to the appropriate feeder/ULD (large 12x9x9 canister for airplanes)
7)
The can is loaded until full, at this point is where the dogs usually
find and detect a package, it is easier for the police officers to run
the dogs past an already filled container as opposed to running them by
every lane. ALTHOUGH on occasion I have had dogs come by me while
UNLOADING cans but this had only happened twice over a 2 and a half year
period of working there 5 days a week.
8 ) The can is sealed and on
it's way to it's plane. Your package is safe until it reaches it's
destination where it will again be sorted, by hand, by unloaders and
placed onto a delivery truck. Sometimes these final facilities,
dependent on the area you live in, will have more dogs that go into each
delivery truck where the packages are open and not protected by the
nylon bags or stuck under a pile of boxes filled with other non-illict
herbs, fish, reptiles, cakes etc.
***NOTE*** During late spring,
summer and early autumn, the planes cargo compartments reach a VERY high
temperature. I'm not sure of the exact temperature but they are flying
above clouds, receive direct UV exposure and the cargo hold has little
to no air flow. This will cause anything that isn't AT LEAST triple
sealed, to begin to REEK. Anyone who has made hash or cannabutter will
know that when bud is heated slowly it begins to reek. There have been
times when I have opened a ULD (canister for a plane) and literally been
knocked back by how SKUNKY it smelled. One guy I worked with was
actually able to find a package with an oz of bud in it, opened it, and
took it home. He was later fired for stealing but UPS did not know what
it was. I have personally held boxes, turned to put them on conveyor and
a wiff of budd will edge itself out of the crevices of a box. I let
them go on but not everyone appreciates bud like I do and many people
have turned in packages. Turned in packages by UPS are usually allowed
to be delivered and are the last stop for the driver. Where the driver
will hand a police office a uniform, the package and allow him to walk
up to your doorstep and ask you to sign for the package at which point
he will arrest you. They have already inspected this package and know
its contents. This mostly pertains to shipping bud.
A lot of people have stated, do not sign for any packages you order off SR. Take the loss not the jail time.
ADVICE:
If it is over an oz, I'd recommend washing the outside of the vacuum bag in an environment where bud is not being smoked.
EDITED:
Sorry for spreading misinformation, after educating myself further
about the USPS, they WILL dust for fingerprints if you ship a package
which has been opened due to suspicion/x-rays, remove all finger prints!
Wear doctors gloves when handling all shipping equipment.
AND MOST OF ALL*************** BE CAREFUL WITH THE TAPE!********************
This
may sound silly but having shipped a TON of items of non-illicit
content, the packaging tape is basically a finger print recording
device. Don't handle it without gloves on, I know it's hard to get off
gloves, or anything that isn't your hands but oh well.
If
shipping a large amount in a box, seal the box properly. Using 2 layers
of packaging tape is not suspect and is not taught as a suspicious
package procedure. Suspicious package procedures are as follows:
1) Silly names. EX. Joe Bob, Mr. Wang, Cheech and Chong etc etc etc etc.
2) Odd markings on a package
3)
Inproper weight put on the package. If you print your own label and
said that it is 10lbs and it's actually only -1lb and someone notices it
on the box, there is a 20% chance they will report it which will cause a
supervisor to visually inspect it, put his nose up to it, shake it
around etc. If he oks it, which I have seen them do 90% of the time, you
are ok.
4) Seal BOTH sides of the box BUT only seal one side of
the letter. The glue for an envelope is commonly thought as not secure
enough by people who sell normal products. Feel free to use packaging
tape around both ends of the envelope VERY LIGHTLY, one to two runs over
is enough.
5) Make your product stable in the box, when someone
picks it up and its light as feather they can feel a tennis ball sized
object bouncing around, that is suspect. Take the time to use old spam
mail, old magazines and roll them up and place them on a bottom layer,
put your package on top of that, then put several more layers above and
around it. This will cause the package to not shake when rattled, is
cheaper then packing peanuts and better then tossing those old
magazines.
6) The only time I ever saw a police dog tear open a
package and it had a many layered vacuum sealed bag, the dog completely
ignored the bag once he ripped the box apart, he was only interested in
the box. Reason? The dog couldn't smell the weed in the vacuum seal but
smelled some residue on the box itself! Be sure to pack your items in a
clean environment. Do not smoke around your packing materials and do not
pack in the room where you hold the bud. Vacuum the bud in one room,
clean your hands, and package it in the box as described above.
The
dogs they use for packing facilities are near retirement age dogs, the
good ones are left to be used by designated targets of the DEA and for
local law enforcement. They are sometimes not the best sniffers but have
an experienced nose. Take precaution.
I have ONCE seen DEA
jackets at UPS. They know what they are there for. At this point the
vendor is already suspect and his packages have been watched for some
time by local law enforcement. All his shipments are flagged but,
legally, can only be opened with reasonable cause and the only legal way
is actually have evidence of the content (they don't) or the dog finds
something inside it, at which point they open it, deliver it, and press
the buyer into giving up information.
The last paragraph I stated is a very rare occurence and the person must not have been packaging their material well enough.
I
later asked the guy who stole the weed how he found it so easily. He
told me the guy wrapped it like 10 grocery store bags and used like a
whole roll of packaging tape to bind it altogether. This is NOT a
suitable replacement for vacuum sealing.
--->5/25/2012<--
DO
NOT DO THIS! I HAVE READ OF A COUPLE NEW VENDORS SELLING AND SHIPPING
VIA UPS USING GROCERY BAGS. YOU WILL GET YOUR CUSTOMER CAUGHT! IF ANY
FEEDBACK FOR A BUYER STATES THIS, DO NOT BUY! THEY WILL CONTROL SHIP TO
YOUR HOUSE AND MAKE YOU VERY UNCOMFORTABLE/ARRESTED.
I hope you all get some use out of this, please feel free to ask me any questions, I am here to help.
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Interesting read. What about pills and powders? I
would imagine the same precautions taken, just wouldn't have to worry
about a human smelling the reek of valium etc., just a dog.
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Yes, the dogs are trained to smell these as well.
Do not
place them alone in the envelope. I know many vendors have secret ways
of hiding the contents of a bag inside the envelope itself.
If
anyone does this, do not put the pills in there without protection. One
layer of vacuum sealing should be sufficient as the odor of a
prescription pill is far less when compared to the pungent smell of bud.
Double vacuum seal large orders or for better safety, make it
commonplace to double seal all pill orders. I have never seen or heard
of a dog ripping open a box and finding pills but I assure you it has
happened.
The dogs usually pick up on large shipments, as before I
left they had a huge haul. Some vendor had been shipping kilos of
cocaine inside the rubber layering of truck tires. They confiscated over
$500,000 of cocaine. They always underestimate the value of drugs so
I'd say it was at least double that. They also showed the bags the of
cocaine and they were not vacuum sealed multiple times, were not put in
opaque packaging.
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Great post!
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thanks for that. Even though I am not in the US I suspect our postal sorting centers work the same way.
Is it standard for dogs to tear open shit in the US or is this a rare event?
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Great post. Given all of this information along with the 'Profiling
postal packaging' post from yesterday, Vendors should be able to
increase there success rates significantly.
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Great post ! much thanks to the OP !
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great post.. nice info.. :)
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Great post! I noticed that was a big mistake when I started vending.
I would package all of my edible orders where I package all of my weed
orders and I noticed the residue would get on some of the boxes which is
a big red flag. I now clean the area before and after packaging to make
sure no weed residue gets on anything.
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Woah, insane info here. All of this inside info needs to be stickied somewhere.
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thanks for that. Even though I am not in the US I suspect our postal sorting centers work the same way.
Is it standard for dogs to tear open shit in the US or is this a rare event?
It
is very rare, normally the dog is under control and only locates a
package and the police office will riffle through until the dog barks.
He will put the package up to the dogs nose and he will growl if it's
bad and do nothing if it's not the right package.
This dog was
older and once a drug dog begins to dismember something it is safest for
everyone to stay back. The police officer tried his safe word but I
assume the dog had trouble understanding what with the 3 floors of heavy
machinery, conveyor belts and the floor made out of wheels, literally.
Great
post! I noticed that was a big mistake when I started vending. I would
package all of my edible orders where I package all of my weed orders
and I noticed the residue would get on some of the boxes which is a big
red flag. I now clean the area before and after packaging to make sure
no weed residue gets on anything.
Yes,
exactly. The dog does not need more then a few milligrams worth of
residue on the box in order to detect it. This is an estimate but a few
milligrams of residue is almost invisible to the enemy eye. This is why I
recommend vacuum sealing, then cleaning the vacuum seals, either one
layer at a time or only the outer layer, based on the level of
precaution you wish to use.
If possible, buy a box of disposable
gloves, similar to the ones at a hospital. This way you can merely slip
on some gloves when you get ready to package.
NEVER use masking
agents. Aim for a smell-FREE box, drug dogs are made to respond to
certain types of concentrated cologne, food stuffs such as coffee.
I
would recommend reading more on drug dog training before packaging ANY
dried herbs with your actual herb. I know that lavender is a very smelly
flower and used to help mask the smell of growing plants.
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This is probably the 5th thread I've posted this in, sorry if you've already read it but I'm trying to spread the word
DO NOT USE PLASTIC BAGGING FOR SEALING DRUGS, use metal laminate MBBs
DO
NOT BOTHER WITH VACUUM SEALS, leave enough air in to check for
pinholes, these are of much greater concern than absolute pressure
differential.
trust me on this one, i'm a retired aerospace engineer and I know a thing or two about packaging & contamination control...
-------------------------------------------------------
this
whole vacuum seal in plastic bagging is poor practice, do not bother
with vacuum sealers, do not use food-grade plastic bagging or any simple
plastic bagging for that matter.
the slight differential in air
pressure you impart on your packaging will not help anything.
Diffusion of the organic molecules responsible for scent is based on the
difference in partial pressure or vapor pressure of those scent
molecules, not the absolute pressure.
even if you have a very
strong vacuum (<10torr) there will still be much more volatile
organics inside the packaging than out... it is that gradient that
controls the direction of diffusion. the diffusion current will cause
those molecules to flow outward. I know it seems counter-intuitive
but that is how it works.
Food grade plastic and vacuum sealers
will control scents well enough to get past a human nose, but most
plastics are permeable enough that a dog or an IMS gas sample scanner
will easily pick up many drugs.
If you're bagging to control
emission of compromising scents use a metal laminate moisture barrier
bag, don't vacuum seal, instead leave air in so you can put in a bucket
of water and squeeze and check for leaks, if there's no leaks clean the
bag to deal with the surface contamination, maintain it at a molecularly
clean state as you package it and ship.
if you're buying a heat
sealer, find an industrial grade one with at least a 5mm wide seal
line. Just buy one mail-order
I don't know how
prolific IMS scanners are for customs to use on US mail but ever since
the whole "mail bombs to america thing" I'd bet they're scanning more
and more incoming mail and possibly domestic mail as well. IMS
scanners aren't as good as a dog's nose, but they're not far off, and
even if they were originally deployed for explosives only the detection
of drugs could be accomplished with nothing more than a software
update.
Good luck
Bob
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Yes,
exactly. The dog does not need more then a few milligrams worth of
residue on the box in order to detect it. This is an estimate but a few
milligrams of residue is almost invisible to the enemy eye.
Dogs can detect residue that's flat out invisible. Don't underestimate this.
Just an example:
hxxp://www.csst.org/residual_scent.html
Anyone
who's housetrained a puppy who goes back to the same spot despite
aggressive cleaning.. and then the next puppy who goes to the spot the
first pup used... might be familiar with the issue.
I don't know
about packaging per se, but when scent packs are prepped for utility dog
training, it's like packing chemo - smocks, double/triple gloves when
handling the smelly stuff, then strip layers off before handling the
outer packaging.
NEVER
use masking agents. Aim for a smell-FREE box, drug dogs are made to
respond to certain types of concentrated cologne, food stuffs such as
coffee. Though I do not think they are trained to decipher the
difference between marijuana and dried lavender or other assorted herbs.
I would recommend reading more on drug dog training before
packaging ANY dried herbs with your actual herb. I know that lavender is
a very smelly flower and used to help mask the smell of growing plants.
What?
Yes,
of course they can distinguish between cannabis and lavender. They
smell as different as cannabis and chocolate. Even WE can distinguish
between cannabis and lavender.
You say NEVER use masking agents and then suggest lavender. I don't understand.
There's no such thing as "masking" scent for dogs. Including other herbs. It's just "another" scent.
I've
never trained a drug dog, just utility scent for pets to keep them from
eating the couch out of boredom. I wasn't aware the forensic dogs were
trained for certain types of concentrated cologne or foodstuffs.
Everything I've read says they're trained on specific drugs/explosives
only, as a hit on cologne or coffee wouldn't be sufficient grounds for
opening a box. Any other information you have on this would be great!
Thanks for the UPS info, very interesting. :)
-
This is probably the 5th thread I've posted this in, sorry if you've already read it but I'm trying to spread the word
DO NOT USE PLASTIC BAGGING FOR SEALING DRUGS, use metal laminate MBBs
DO
NOT BOTHER WITH VACUUM SEALS, leave enough air in to check for
pinholes, these are of much greater concern than absolute pressure
differential.
trust me on this one, i'm a retired aerospace engineer and I know a thing or two about packaging & contamination control...
-------------------------------------------------------
this
whole vacuum seal in plastic bagging is poor practice, do not bother
with vacuum sealers, do not use food-grade plastic bagging or any simple
plastic bagging for that matter.
the slight differential in air
pressure you impart on your packaging will not help anything.
Diffusion of the organic molecules responsible for scent is based on the
difference in partial pressure or vapor pressure of those scent
molecules, not the absolute pressure.
even if you have a very
strong vacuum (<10torr) there will still be much more volatile
organics inside the packaging than out... it is that gradient that
controls the direction of diffusion. the diffusion current will cause
those molecules to flow outward. I know it seems counter-intuitive
but that is how it works.
Food grade plastic and vacuum sealers
will control scents well enough to get past a human nose, but most
plastics are permeable enough that a dog or an IMS gas sample scanner
will easily pick up many drugs.
If you're bagging to control
emission of compromising scents use a metal laminate moisture barrier
bag, don't vacuum seal, instead leave air in so you can put in a bucket
of water and squeeze and check for leaks, if there's no leaks clean the
bag to deal with the surface contamination, maintain it at a molecularly
clean state as you package it and ship.
if you're buying a heat
sealer, find an industrial grade one with at least a 5mm wide seal
line. Just buy one mail-order
I don't know how
prolific IMS scanners are for customs to use on US mail but ever since
the whole "mail bombs to america thing" I'd bet they're scanning more
and more incoming mail and possibly domestic mail as well. IMS
scanners aren't as good as a dog's nose, but they're not far off, and
even if they were originally deployed for explosives only the detection
of drugs could be accomplished with nothing more than a software
update.
Good luck
Bob
Ok,
so if oxygen (a much smaller molecule than whatever dogs are smelling)
is not diffusing in significant amounts into the double 10^whatever
polymer chain container while vacuum sealed true should be vice versa
for lager molecules; wouldn't a fairly large organic molecule have more
of a chance of getting through a stretched out by higher absolute
pressure of gasses(as in aircraft cargo bay at 10km) same container?
There are some really good plastic bags out there, I think the point
here is not to be cheap
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Fizzy is quite correct, a dog can detect ridiculously small
quantities of volatiles. Their sense of smell is many thousands of
times better than you or I. They can also very easily
discriminate between smells, even when one is much stronger than the
other.
The human brain is overall larger than that of a dog, but
the area of brain dedicated to analyzing smells in a dog is more than
40X larger than in a human. Dogs are as much better at smelling
than humans, as humans are better at mathematics than dogs.
I
think the dog detection thresholds for many organic volatiles are in the
range of 200ppt to 2ppb. So if we use 1ppb (to make math easier)
that means that in a single 10mL sniff of air which weighs about 10mg a
dog can detect 0.01 nanogram of volatiles. The volatile organic
content of drugs varies and the outgass rate is VERY temperature
dependent but if we use something like 0.01% evaporation rate per hour
then from 1miligram of surface contamination you get 1mg * .0001 =
1e-7g/hr = 100ng/hr = 1.67ng/min. And that scent vapor will just
linger around your package and build up unless there's airflow to blow
it away, so 1mg is very easily detected by a dog.
Surface
contamination needs to be controlled to a sub-microgram level to ensure
you pass a dog sniff test, and this is difficult to do,
here's a tip you can share in other threads:
bag
or double-bag your drugs, (use MBB with 5mm+ seal if possible), don't
vacuum it, dunk in water & squeeze to check for pinholes, leaks,
anything that causes bubbles.
Put bag in dishwasher with detergent & 1 shotglass of bleach. Run hot water power-wash cycle.
while
this is going take a shower & scrub with soap & hot water like
you got exposed to the ebola virus, put on clean freshly washed clothes.
put
on gloves and take out your bags, transport them to a 100% drug free
environment like a garage or shed or someplace that has never been
exposed to any drugs.
package with packaging materials that have
never been exposed to drugs, residue, smoke, etc and were never
co-located in any house or vehicle with any quantity of drugs or drug
users.
address them, apply postage, and put in a clean plastic bag, transport to mailbox, ship.
Now
you can take your gloves off and you can rest assured that you're at
low risk of getting detected by the dogs or IMS scanners and you didn't
leave any fingerprints.
If I missed anything feel free to correct me.
For
those of you with dogs at home, go forth and test this!
play the "find the hidden ziploc bag O pot" game (or coke, heroin,
meth, etc), and reward him/her with their favorite treats. Then
seal up some weed in food grade bagging, seal another bit of weed in
either MBBs or a paper bag in a glass canning jar. Do the same
with a couple pieces of popcorn or something (as a control) Do the
dishwasher thing then sit the packages in a warm location to simulate
riding in a non-AC cargo container for a few days ( time + heat should
let the scents slowly permeate through the plastics). Put them out
and play "find the hidden pot" see how well it does. I'd love to
know how the different dog breeds do.
Unbound: stretching a
plastic bag can deform the structure of it and will eventually cause
microcracks which leak. The behaviour when stretched depends a lot
on crystal structure of the polymer though. A latex balloon is
not terribly crystalline, it is very disordered and has higher porosity
and leaks helium at a very high rate and tends to leak more when
stretched. A highly crystaline mylar/aluminum laminate ballon (the
silver ones) tends to not change much when stretched and tend to have
low leakage rates for their contents due to the highly crystalline
nature of the aluminum layer. I should also add that cabin
pressure of cargo AC tends to be around 2000m or so. There is no
such thing as an unpressurized cargo hold on any jetliners. O2 and
N2 will easily diffuse through many plastics (depends on solubility,
crystallinity, thickness, and temp). If you pull a strong vacuum
on a food-grade bag, leave it in a warm place for a few weeks you'll
likely begin to notice a relaxation of the vacuum.
Best Regards
Bob
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Bob, those are all solid suggestions. I am pretty sure you can
present a lecture or two on polymer crystals and the diffusion flux. The
only thing I knew about cargo bays is that my shaving cream popped in
my luggage once, so I assumed the pressure was low, so picked a point in
the middle. Good packages i have heard about :) are vac sealed in
first layer and have air in between the second (and third for really
good ones) for the same reasons you were talking about, not too much
air, just loose plastic. Its plenty enough to get by for priority
shipping of 7 days or less. The dog is not smelling just one package
either, one would smell stronger than others, yea, but they all cant be
opened. Dog I heard of working once jetted for the handler's doughnuts
that were left on the tail gate within the first 30 seconds, was not
impressed, especially since there were things at the site, yea it was a
practice, and it wasnt a drug dog, but whats a difference? He should be
looking for his toy. There is equipment thats supposed to pick up stuff
with an unbelievable accuracy, I dont know too much about it, its too
accurate for its own good though and pretty expensive. Some stuff out
there is flat out fake, and yes some places have bought it, and fail to
admit it doesn't work, no matter who tells them what. ppt? isn't that
like 10 to the 23rd times 6 or something or is that just 10 to the
negative 12th 6 gallon jugs of air?
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^^could someone sticky Bob's post? Because it was awesome.
I've
been playing with sealing and scenting methods. I have an elderly
collection of utility scent pet dogs around. Basil is a reasonable
substitute, I think, so I've been using that - the aerogarden keeps
churning it out, and it doesn't raise eyebrows when the pack and I use
it at dog club.
(I don't mail anything, but... Look, the dogs are
bored, everyone needs a hobby, it was a long winter, it's still too
muddy for long runs... and now I'm curious.)
I haven't tried the
dishwasher idea. I agree with the rest of the prep/scrub. Maybe
not quite full decontamination but, you know, scrubbing harder rarely
hurts in these situations...
I have an ignorant question: would the heat/etc of the dishwasher stretch/degrade the packaging? Guess I'll find out!
Next time I fly, I'll have to pre-pack several bags of basil in the luggage. I can come up with a credible explanation.
/threadjack
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Yea dude, heat degrades plastics BIG time, hope its not too late, DONT do it
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listen to bob,even though i've been giving him crap, he seems to
have done his homework. A little hot water wont hurt, but extended time
in dishwasher night, i dunno, depends on if your packaging is dishwasher
safe i guess. And its not about scrubbing harder its about what you
scrub with, cannabinoids are best soluble in fats and alcohol(two of the
best things in the world, duh), bleach i dunno about its effects on
cannabinoid molecules, but it wount hurt, my advice is to start with
regular dish soap.
-
great post, this needs to be stickied.
+1
-
Regarding temperature: the plastics used in most bagging is common
thermoplastics such as PE or Nylon or polypropylene. Sometimes
you'll encounter exotic materials like polyimide or PEEK but those are
generally only used in special applications by the military.
The
mass market thermoplastics are generally stable up to the boiling point
of water. So a consumer dishwasher won't hurt them at all as most
consumer dishwashers operate well below boiling point (to avoid burn
lawsuits).
Also, I want to mention that I was recently reminded
by another user that pre-made or dumpster acquired MBBs will have a
serial number imprinted on the seal line of the bag. If you use
one of these for contraband shipments be smart and trim it off and
re-seal that edge.
Best Regards
Bob
-
What?
Yes,
of course they can distinguish between cannabis and lavender. They
smell as different as cannabis and chocolate. Even WE can distinguish
between cannabis and lavender.
You say NEVER use masking agents and then suggest lavender. I don't understand.
There's no such thing as "masking" scent for dogs. Including other herbs. It's just "another" scent.
I've
never trained a drug dog, just utility scent for pets to keep them from
eating the couch out of boredom. I wasn't aware the forensic dogs were
trained for certain types of concentrated cologne or foodstuffs.
Everything I've read says they're trained on specific drugs/explosives
only, as a hit on cologne or coffee wouldn't be sufficient grounds for
opening a box. Any other information you have on this would be great!
Thanks for the UPS info, very interesting. :)
I
did not suggest using lavender. I said I am UNSURE of those masking
agents because I was... unsure and to do more research on your own
because of my uncertainty. It does not say, USE LAVENDER. Thanks for the
extra information and clarifying it to those who may see it as a
suggestion to use lavender. I will remove it from the post though to
avoid confusion.
Consider this a shameless bump to get more
information out there. I recently read two vendors whose feedback from
buyers said they were using the UPS and grocery bags to seal their
product. While the people above me offer some VERY amazing suggestions
for sealing, never use only grocery bags, no matter the amount of
layers. Plastic permability or not, the plane cargo hold gets VERY hot
while in the air above cloud cover. As well as the semi-trucks cargo
holds get upwards of 100degrees. This will degrade your plastic barrier,
heat the weed up as if you were cooking it to make an edible and that
is a very bad combination of things to happen. Like I stated, a guy I
worked with was able to pin point the package as soon as he opened the
door. Imagine how easy it would be for a dog to go in and find that
package. Just don't do it.
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Great post man...good read..
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Am I so 2000 or aren't oven bags the shit? Tell me why or why not
oven bags are not the ONLY way to go? I know all too painfully that
vacuum-sealed bags are worthless (they're pourous like a fucking tire
for Christ's sake). If you use them you are relying on the law of
averages and you WILL get hammered whether it's next week or two years
from now. End of. Look up "asymmetrical risk' and decide if it's worth
it. Fuck a UPS guy, fuck a self-proclaimed aeronautical genius. This is
real life and I'm telling you you WILL catch a charge (or if you're
lucky just have your shit jacked and your recipient pressed and
threatened by the Feds or even local LE) if you continue to use single,
double OR triple bagged vacuum sealed pourous fod bags. Unless you have
your own drug dog this whole thread is speculation and wrong. I paid the
price already for stupid shit like what's in this thread. There, I said
it.
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So say it with your real account?
Or perhaps don't order
large quantities that would cause you to get in a ton of trouble.
Anything of the quantity that I'm sure you ordered is suspect. As well
as ordering through UPS or FEDex at all. This isn't a thread on how to
ship through UPS, it's an insider's view on UPS and it's drug related
practices and how they may relate to other branches of postal related
services.
Also, you never know HOW you got caught as LE is not
required to tell you the truth except when you are finally taken to
court. It says so in the law, they can say whatever they want to get you
to confess or talk.
But thanks for sharing your experience and perhaps someone will believe you when you use an account with some credibility.
-
so let me get this straight - you're saying DON'T vacuum seal bags? what do you do then?
I have a few smelly proof bags that can be heat sealed... is that OK?
-
so let me get this straight - you're saying DON'T vacuum seal bags? what do you do then?
I have a few smelly proof bags that can be heat sealed... is that OK?
Vacuum
sealing is sufficient as per my Opening Post (OP). This is per UPS
standards. Most of the packages that are confiscated or turned in by
employees are found crushed/improperly sealed and there are grocery
bags/garbage bags showing. I mean come on guys... garbage bags?
Vacuum
seals may be "porous" when compared to glass or other denser substances
but as long as your package doesn't contain a QP of chronic buds or
1000 pills then I'd consider yourself safe, AS LONG AS YOU TAKE
NECESSARY precautions as stated by my advice and the advice stated in
the postal officers thread that is stickied at the top of this forum.
Also look at it like this, the chances of your package being caught by a
person over three layers of ever so slightly porous layers over another
are slim to none. Under three layers of vacuum seals, it would take
several hours of the package being in 100 degree weather for the bag
to BEGIN to deteriorate enough to cause a leak that would allow
the VACUUM to be broken. And that's just the first layer.
Consider
this, hundreds of thousands of packages are wrapped up poorly, shipped
by inexperience or busy people, thru USPS all the time. I make it my job
to make my packages look as suspicious as possible because I only sell
LEGAL items over eBay. I do this so that my post office will one day
stop giving a fuck why my nail polishes/collectible ash trays/whatever
else are so poorly wrapped.
I find it amusing actually, the
thought of an inspector getting all hot and bothered over my package
only to open it and find... nail polish. It's part of my personal belief
in the balancing system I call "reverse karma". Sometimes the balance
must be made, not waited for and this is my way of doing it. ANYWHO,
just saying random shit.
-
good thread. +1 for OP
-
Never thought I'd say I love you to guy named Bob, but I am.
I love you Bob. :)
-
Using UPS/Fedex is a stupid Idea to begin with...
Just sayin.
-
Using UPS/Fedex is a stupid Idea to begin with...
Just sayin.
Agreed.
USPS
is the way to go, just posting the methods of UPS so that it can be
used to correlate those of USPS, as most businesses do everything the
same way but with their own twist of flair.
UPS has been used to
ship VERY large amounts of drugs successfully. UPS was suspected of
having moved over 1,000 kilos of coke in one month when they busted
truck tires having kilos lined in the tires for shipment. They are
uncertain how long it had been going on.
It is used to ship products so I only advise the practices in place so people can be more aware of them. Enjoy :D
-
Bump as I still see feedback being left on certain vendor's pages
that they use UPS and GROCERY bags (only line of smell protection).
Bad
idea. Next day air? Bad idea, stays in the system less, yes, but unless
it's PROPERLY sealed (iron bags) then I'd suggest staying away. Vacuum
seal bags can degrade in the air (closed cabin being heated directly by
the sun with no cloud cover) which can lead to a bust. Since UPS is
mostly used for large, quick shipments, I am bumping this for all
vendors/buyers.
Good luck!
-
Amazing post thank you
-
I love you too HardHustle ;)
For the rest of you:
If you're just trying to pass a human smell test, food grade heat seal
bagging is OK. If you're determined to make it past a dog, get
online and buy the 3M Dri-Shield 3700 MBBs, I've reviewed the specs on
the commercially available bagging and this seems to be the best value
for the $$. Also, 5mm impulse heat sealers are available for less
than $150.
Bob
-
Good read
-
8) bump
-
Thank for this thread Dude and for your expert addition Bob I really
appreciate when people who know their shit contribute here. And all
this time I thought I was getting by the dogs with my little vacuum
sealer. Considering all the venders who have shipped thousands of
packages successfully over the months (and this is not the only
site) that dont use 3M Dri-Shield 3700 MBBs, or alike with a dishwasher
shower and clean clothes ( I dont know of any that do) that could not
have made it past a dog, what it tells me is dont even worry about the
dogs not only because its so difficult to get by them but your chances
of a dog sniffing your package is close to odds of winning a lottery. Or
am I missing something?
-
drpvmd: I have no idea if they employ dogs or scanners for domestic
mail. Obviously it's used for incoming international mail and
other countries seem to rely on dogs & scanners heavily. I'd
guess that occasionally domestic mail gets screened, they probably seize
packages on a daily basis. But with the massive volume of mail
they can probably only screen a small fraction of it all. Postal
Inspectors probably do controlled delivery & love letters on a daily
basis, but again, only a small fraction of the successful
deliveries. So i'm confident that if you're getting drugs in the
mail you're odds of getting arrested are far greater than the odds of a
lottery ticket winning the jackpot.
Also I have no clue what the
interception rate is for domestic & international shipments, I
would guess from reading the forums maybe a couple percent for things
coming from certain countries like the Netherlands, maybe a fraction of a
percent for domestic. I hear Japan is very tough to send anything
to as they use dogs and scanners on all incoming mail, but I've never
shipped anything there myself. If anybody knows more feel free to
brief us.
If I were shipping anything to japan I sure as hell wouldn't use food grade bagging.
As
for domestic mail, you only have to fool human noses 99.x% of the
time. The issue is that even if it's only a fraction of a % chance
that a dog or scanner inspects your mail, the consequences can be huge
for the buyer. Maybe a love letter, maybe cops kicking down the
door and 3-5 years in prison.
I'd give it WAY better odds than
winning the lottery (mega-millions odds = 1/175million). If using a
MBB that only costs me $1 can reduce the probability of one of my
packages from being intercepted by a small fraction of a percent I think
it's worth it in the end.
Best Regards,
Bob
-
The lottery was probably not the best choice to make my point. I
ship mostly in the USA in very small amounts but Im all for the best
security possible so I will definitely look into making this change in
packaging. I appreciate the info. thank you.
-
Great Post!
Always a good read to hear from people on the inside.
-
Excellent read! I love posts like this, get into the mind of "the enemy" classic sun tzu shit! Thanks, Kudos!
-
Former UPS employee here. The OP clearly worked at an airport hub
for UPS. Any time you involve a plane, a dog or some heavier form of
scrutinizing will likely be involved. For your 3-day select and UPS
ground, they are staying on the ground and in trucks (or train) that are
only opened by UPS unloaders. I've never seen police at my hub and it
was the 2nd largest hub for the state.
-
Great Post!
-
This was a very interesting read.
When you say the package are 'scanned' what do you mean?
Is
there any X-Ray somewhere? I want to ship package out of the country,
do they put package under X-RAY's to see what's inside?
If so, how do you guys pass the X-RAY ?
Thanks.
-
Helpful! Thanks for the info!
-
Excellent info, but given the massive volume that many vendors
deal with, and the fact that many of them work alone, I have to wonder
how many vendors will take all the necessary steps that were
suggested.
Also, now that FarmerBob has suggested a
specific shipping bag to be used (the 3M Dri-Shield 3700 MBBs) I
wouldn't be surprised if the USPS just makes a new policy to treat all
packages with a 3M Dri-Shield 3700 as suspect.
-
Excellent
info, but given the massive volume that many vendors deal with, and the
fact that many of them work alone, I have to wonder how many vendors
will take all the necessary steps that were suggested.
Also,
now that FarmerBob has suggested a specific shipping bag to be used
(the 3M Dri-Shield 3700 MBBs) I wouldn't be surprised if the USPS just
makes a new policy to treat all packages with a 3M Dri-Shield 3700 as
suspect.
:o
HA HA HA, Allow me to help out my bro Captain "Sensible", as he's
drugged outta his mind at the moment , so how are they gonna know what
the bag material is? Open it and read the label? And If
there's a UPC or Label on it wouldn't the sensible thing to do to be
just peel it off?!? But they'd still need a search warrant!.
I know, we'll let the dog sniff it to see if he hits on it so we can
get our search warrant and open it up and see what the bagging is made
of. BAM!
*And we all know that the USPS would NEVER look
for a package tripple vac sealed in food plastic. They just open
those and are like "ohh, shit tripple sealed green leafy shit... but
it's food bags so it must be oregeno, pack it back up and ship it Alex,
we're looking for moisture bags"
If I hit post and it tells me somebody else already jumped on this I'm gonna be pissed cause I wanted a screenshot. 8)
-
This is probably the 5th thread I've posted this in, sorry if you've already read it but I'm trying to spread the word
DO NOT USE PLASTIC BAGGING FOR SEALING DRUGS, use metal laminate MBBs
DO
NOT BOTHER WITH VACUUM SEALS, leave enough air in to check for
pinholes, these are of much greater concern than absolute pressure
differential.
trust me on this one, i'm a retired aerospace engineer and I know a thing or two about packaging & contamination control...
Do you do this with your own shipments? If so, then I applaud you for such incredible attention to detail.
-
This is probably the 5th thread I've posted this in, sorry if you've already read it but I'm trying to spread the word
DO NOT USE PLASTIC BAGGING FOR SEALING DRUGS, use metal laminate MBBs
DO
NOT BOTHER WITH VACUUM SEALS, leave enough air in to check for
pinholes, these are of much greater concern than absolute pressure
differential.
trust me on this one, i'm a retired aerospace engineer and I know a thing or two about packaging & contamination control...
Do you do this with your own shipments? If so, then I applaud you for such incredible attention to detail.
you
should never ask a vendor to discuss the methods that he or she uses
personally. with that said, isn't it obvious that he's a
professional? ;)
-
you should never ask a vendor to discuss the methods that he
or she uses personally. with that said, isn't it obvious
that he's a professional? ;)
[/quote]
Hey, he's the one that mentioned it, and it was mostly rhetorical anyhow ;)
-
Thank you. This was very helpful.
-
+1 for author
-
EDITED:
Sorry for spreading misinformation, after educating myself further
about the USPS, they WILL dust for fingerprints if you ship a package
which has been opened due to suspicion/x-rays, remove all finger prints!
Wear doctors gloves when handling all shipping equipment.
I hope you all get some use out of this, please feel free to ask me any questions, I am here to help.
How
do you purchase the shipping material like envelopes/boxes without
getting our prints on it? Wouldn't it be a little weird buying
that type of thing wearing latex gloves? I'm
interested. Very nice article by the way.
-
EDITED:
Sorry for spreading misinformation, after educating myself further
about the USPS, they WILL dust for fingerprints if you ship a package
which has been opened due to suspicion/x-rays, remove all finger prints!
Wear doctors gloves when handling all shipping equipment.
I hope you all get some use out of this, please feel free to ask me any questions, I am here to help.
How
do you purchase the shipping material like envelopes/boxes without
getting our prints on it? Wouldn't it be a little weird buying
that type of thing wearing latex gloves? I'm
interested. Very nice article by the way.
if you're going to be a vendor, you need to grow your brains a little :)
most
of these types of things (including DCN stickers) come in stacks.
grab a stack, then discard the top and bottom one later.
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yes - if going to vend - u must put more thought into what ur doing.
in 5 seconds i can think of 5 ways to solve your problem above (how get
supply wtihout prints) and 1 of the ways ^^^ mentioned. its common
sense. if not common sense to u - dont vend or maybe u end up in bad
place.
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i not know FarmerBob, but can tell u - listen to what he say!
if only 1 thing you listen to - make it this -> DO NOT USE PLASTIC BAGGING FOR SEALING DRUGS, use metal laminate MBBs <-
-
I'm sorry but I feel like I really must clear up some serious
misconceptions here, not as a slight against the OP, who has provided
some useful information, but to further the knowledge of forum users and
perhaps encourage some reasoned debate on the matter.
Let me
state this plainly. The notion that sniffer dogs have this almost
miraculous efficacy in sniffing out whatever it is they are trained to
sniff out is a bit of a myth. In fact, most sniffer dogs are pretty bad
at their job. Whilst it is true that they are superb at smelling what
they are trained to smell, upon closer analysis, this does not become
the kind of drug bustin' panacea that the DEA want you to think it is
(it seems clear to me that their role is 90% of the time symbolic).
It
is a myth in two senses. Firstly, a number of controlled experiments
have shown sniffer dogs to have a massive rate of false positives. Some
have found a false positive rate upwards at 90%, whilst others have
suggested that a sniffer dog has no stronger likelihood than random
chance in detecting illicit substances.
If we consider the volume
of mail that goes through a sorting centre or a customs office or
wherever in a day, and the time taken to search x quantity of mail that
the sniffer dog has identified as containing illicit substances, it
becomes quite clear that even if the dog identified a smell in x bag or x
can which was then emptied, it would be difficult to narrow that smell
down to any particular package and even when they did, it would be more
likely to be a false positive than a package containing an actual
illicit substance. This picture becomes clearer when we consider the
second aspect.
The second aspect of the efficacy myth concerns
the relation of a particular drug to a particular smell. There seems to
be this idea that heroin has A SMELL, and that we can train a dog to
sniff FOR HEROIN, and that therefore, if a dog barks and sits down for
his treat next to a package, it contains heroin. Wrong again. Dogs sniff
a particular component of the smell (sometimes a single molecule) of a
drug that is also found in a vast array of completely legal products. In
the case of MDMA for example, what dogs actually detect is a molecule
called piperonal, which can be found in contraband such as soap or head
lice repellant.
Now, consider a third aspect. Not just that the
smell that the dog identifies could be a drug or could be someones wash
bag, but that smells are in a sense contagious. Let's say that I rub the
outside of the envelope with some hash oil, or some other substance
invisible to our eye. When it's getting mixed up with all the other
items, or especially if it's sat in a bag for a while, the molecules
that the dog detects that are on the outside of envelope will transfer
to other items. So if the dog rightly identifies a big sack of mail
containing one envelope with illicit substances inside, there is a
reasonable likelihood that the molecules that that dog detects will have
been transferred to the other items. Think about emptying that sack on
the floor, let's say that we pass one envelope infront of the dog and it
gives the sign that it has detected the smell. We have to open that
envelope, examine its contents (which, could take a while, depending on
the contents...) but there's nothing inside, the substances are in
another. This could go on for tens or even hundreds of items, unless of
course, the dog had some other training, whereby it could select the
strongest smell from a selection of items (but I have not heard of
this...), but even if it had this, it would require a certain amount of
time and effort, time and effort spent whilst thousands of mail items
fly by unchecked.
The studies make this point very clearly. When
testing scenarios like this the dog's likelihood of actually finding
illicit substances is only a little better than randomly stopping
and searching packages. And when we think a little more deeply about
what it actually means to be a sniffer dog, that they are trained to
respond to particular molecules, that those molecules are found in a
variety of products and not just drugs, that the molecules can be easily
transferred during transit, that every stop to examine a package (which
remember, is upwards of 80 or 90% depending on the study not going to
yield a result) means numerous packages go past unexamined, it becomes
quite clear why.
Of course, this is strenuously denied by the
security services (but then, such is the power of belief....), and
security companies websites won't show the failure of one of their 'most
important tools', but the contrived situations on training videos in no
way replicate the messy realities the dogs actually work in. And street
cops or whatever show it is aren't exactly going to give a balanced
perspective on false positives either (it would probably fill up a whole
show!).
I would like to add a further note on evaluating the
efficacy of sniffer dogs, not as any positive theory, but to perhaps
moderate the responses of other users or make people think a little
harder about the examples they might give in their favour. Let's
consider a hypothetical scenario involving a sniffer dog. A bomb threat
on the subway. The sniffer dog and his or her handler move quickly down
the carriage, with the dog being directed and urged towards passengers,
their bags etc... The dog will sometimes bark or show signs of interest
but be pulled back by the handler. Then the dog will bark and show
interest towards a certain passenger or bag. The handler will make the
decision that THIS bag is needs to be examined seriously, and upon
closer examination there is the bomb. Notice here, there are two agents,
the dog and the handler. The dog may have signalled numerous times
before, but the handler suspected or knew or had an intuiton that it
wasn't the case... For example, it was a child with a chip sandwich
(vinegar contains acetic acid which is the primary molecule that drug
dogs sniff for for heroin), or a bag too small to fit an explosive
device. The dog may bring the handlers attention to particular objects
or subjects, and thus reduce the amount of possible targets therefore
aiding detection, but the notion that the sniffer dog accurately sniffed
out the bomb is nothing more than petty animism, or the ascription of
human agency to an animal through the misrecognition of agency in the
completion of the task (basically, we like dogs, we like to think of
dogs as human, and we are very happy to misrecognise our intuition and
agency as their own).
I apologise for the length of my response
but I wanted to make my case as clearly as possible. That is all I have
to say on the matter of sniffer dogs, but I would like to ponder a bit
further on some of the OPs other comments regarding 'suspicious', which I
find a bit silly to say the least.
"1) Silly names. EX. Joe Bob, Mr. Wang, Cheech and Chong etc etc etc etc.
2) Odd markings on a package
1.)
Silly names like Mr Wang, honestly? There isn't such a thing as a silly
name. There is such a thing as a name that small minded americans don't
recognise or understand and that in their imperialism consider to be
silly. But let's think about it empirically. There are billions of
people in the world with what an american would call a silly name. So
the packages that go through with a silly name gets checked? of course
not. You would see thousands of them everyday. The picture of an
employee turning to another and saying, "Hey Bob, Bob, this guy is
called WANG HA HA HA", is much more likely than them doing anything
about it. If they stopped every item with a name they found silly they
would have little time to do anything else.
2.) Odd markings on
the package. Again, take this seriously. So many people re-use
packaging, doodle on packaging, spill beer on packaging... And what
about post from india, or china, or japan, or thailand, or greece, or
russia... All covered in odd markings (it's called their script!). Some
indian post offices use the most exquisite stamps and markings to
identify post or determine its destination. Now, think of a big sack of
it heading for the uk, they either check the whole bag or ignore it. My
bet is that they ignore it. There is no standard marking on post, it
comes in all shapes and sizes and covered in all sorts of stuff. And
surely, the people who are sending illicit substances are not going to
be the guys who have an anarchist flag stamped on a heavy envelope that
reeks of weed? I mean come on!!!! This is American "are you a terrorist
tick this box" mentality (i'm not being anti american here, you could
say the same thing about britain and the incessant warning to report
anything suspicious on the tube.. what utter nonsense. and no surprise
that their terrorist hotline has been indundated by calls from middle
class white women fearful of a person of non white origin bending over).
I'm
not trying to say that the OP does not make some important points and
valuable suggestions, but it seems to me written in an idiom of
scaremongering, or heinous knowledge, as opposed to proper reasoned
information about the process.
-
Your points are very good and everyone would be wise to consider
those points in all walks of life. Making something seem much more
reliable/precise and even dangerous han it really is happens all over
the media, in companies and government sections. Mostly to inhibit
people. As this will lower the amount of work and checking they have to
do if people just are too afraid to do something.
Unfortunately
you go off into some kind of anti western rant that quite frankly does
not become someone intelligent enough to author the writing above.
Yes, Americans can be a bit Americanocentic at times. So what? Every country/culture has its good sides and bad sides.
What
you fail to see by focussing on the not so suspicious mr wang example
(which os indeed only funny/"suspiciois" for Americans) is that the
point about the strange names is a very valid one. See the cheech and
chong example he also gave? Some stoners are stupid enough to use those
names (taken from the title of a well known stoner movie if you didn't
know already). It will raise eyebrows especially in combination with
oher factors (grocery bag packaging, etc).
Other names that
occur. Imagine packages addressed to Mickey Mouse, James Bond or Prince.
A domestic mail piece envelop just the size of a birthday card
addressed to MIckey Mouse? Big deal. A 10 Pound package coming from
India addressed to Mickey Mouse? It WILL be xrayed, count on that.
Another
point I wish to make is about the chance of your packing being closely
examnied. Evrybody is talking about percentages, but nobody looks up the
numbers.
As an example take the Netherlands which is a very
small country yet seems to be perceived as "difficult". According to the
data of their main post company alone on their website (so even
excluding all other carriers, fedex, etc). They handle 15 MILLION
letters and 350000 packages daily. Now imagine the volume the US
has to deal with. All examinations, also the ones that have nothong to
do wih the contents such as the checking if there are enough stamps on
there, are ALL done rqndomly and in small batches
-
I noticed earlier someone said to use magazines or old papers to
fill out a box to keep it from rattling. One thing to remember is to
take any identifying information off of what you shove into a box. ie
the spam mail you get at your house, or your old magazines. Both will
have your address. The magazines especially will likely have your
fingerprints as well. Someone correct me if the paper in a magazine
won't hold prints, I could be wrong.
Regardless, stay paranoid,
and double and triple think about how you could be including
incriminating things in what you pack, aside from the actual detection
of the contents.
IANAL nor do I know if LE goes to these lengths.
My opinion is if LE is looking at you or a frequent customer, they will
go to the length of checking packing materials for prints, but that is
just my opinion.
-
Great thread.
As a new vendor and member of the forums I figure I'll add my two cents.
A lot of mailers have barcodes on the bottom, which could be used as identifiers by LE.
Most junk mail is whats called a targeted mailing, that is, your area is targeted by whoever is sending the junk mail
For instance Chick-Fil-A wouldn't send you a coupon in the mail if their isn't a store close enough to your area.
That being said, reusing targeted mail is making you a target yourself.
In most cases its not a big deal, but it only takes one slip.
Your magazines do keep prints, but so do your dentists magazines. Don't forget to remove the cover.
TL:DR If you can't afford real packing supplies make sure to use your brain!
;)
-
Its been said a few times to do a 5 mm wide heat seal. If you have a
cheaper sealer that is only 2 mm wide, for example, why not simply seal
it twice or three times like one after another? Why pay over $100 for a
new sealer when you can use the one you have? And where do you find
this metal coated plastic? Does it have to be special ordered or can you
pick it up at stores locally which would bed more convenient and leave
no record of you ordering it?
-
I used to work in Germany's ground transportation firm for 5 years.
Only once cops with a dog showed up and they searched for one
specific sender's boxes so they must had some kind of info. As I know
every ground transportation firm in the same region for example EU
(except UK) are not doing any checks for the items they ship unless the
box or envelope is torn or showered with something. When courier takes a
shipment he calls to mobile number written on it, he comes on agreed
time and never asks ID just sometimes asks to tell a surname which
is written on the box. Then you need only to sign. You can not risk to
sign but usually same courier always arrives from same firm because they
have their districts shared. So if a cop will show up instead then you
will notice that he is not your courier then you can refuse to take
package and sign by telling that this some kind of mistake. Still it is
not safe. Best thing to have inside man as a courier.
-
OP makes it sound as if K9 dogs are at the UPS sort facility every
day/night. I worked at 2 different sort facilities for a major US
city. Want to know how many times I saw a K9, absolutely 0.
I
also have a relative that has worked for USPS at a major sort facility
for 15 years attnd he has never seen a K9, and may see a postal
inspector once every 3 months or so.
I have to note that none of these facilities had Customs either
-
I heard a rumor a moth ago that order was given to Germany's
ground transportation firm DPD by LE, that the content or papers of
every shipment to Ireland must be checked before sending it because of
some kind of illegal shit traffic lately.
-
2 years at UPS loading the browns during morning shift, and 2 years
on night shift loading cans and trailers in Seattle. Never once saw
police or dogs.
Just my experience, not saying it doesn't
happen. Not saying to take his packaging advise to heart. Just saying:
that just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't after
you.
peace,
GummyB
-
Would sudden interruption of mail for 5+ days be cause for alarm?
-
Recently I had a bubble envelope arrive through USPS with no product
in it. I could tell before I opened it that it had been cut open and
re-sealed. Would really appreciate some input on this since I have
searched for this and found no answers.
-
Thanks for the wealth of information. This will definitely help if I start shipping.
-
Excellent
info, but given the massive volume that many vendors deal with, and the
fact that many of them work alone, I have to wonder how many vendors
will take all the necessary steps that were suggested.
Also,
now that FarmerBob has suggested a specific shipping bag to be used
(the 3M Dri-Shield 3700 MBBs) I wouldn't be surprised if the USPS just
makes a new policy to treat all packages with a 3M Dri-Shield 3700 as
suspect.
:o HA HA HA, Allow me to help out my bro Captain
"Sensible", as he's drugged outta his mind at the moment , so how are
they gonna know what the bag material is? Open it and read the
label? And If there's a UPC or Label on it wouldn't the sensible
thing to do to be just peel it off?!? But they'd still need a
search warrant!. I know, we'll let the dog sniff it to see if he
hits on it so we can get our search warrant and open it up and see what
the bagging is made of. BAM!
3M Dri-Shield 3700 MBB sniffing dog? I would have thought that obvious, Captain.
-
Farmer Bob's posting was excellent and got me thinking about the
science of packing. Okay I understand the metal MBBs. I understand the
need for a 5mm seal. My questions are I have been doing some research
into available materials. I have found aluminum moisture barrier bags by
a company called dry-packs. They have a ziplock re-sealer up top but
can also be heat sealed above that point. Will this do? Are there any
brands that are preferable? As for a proper heat sealer, anything
special required? Any specific models that would be good to look at?
My
one science question is I understand the argument that vacuum sealing
is non essential: the pressure differential has little meaning. More
about how pourous the bag material is and how contaminated it is. What
about when the package goes up in a plane where the cargo will not be
pressurized? Will the fact you left air in the sealed bag pose a
problem? I've had potato chips sent to me before that arrived exploded
due to the pressure. Will this not effect/stress a sealed bag? You
wouldn't want it rupturing in the air and leaking smells when it lands.
Thoughts?
-
great thread should be a sticky
-
shit i am high it is a sticky. funny. anyway good reading for sure
-
I
noticed earlier someone said to use magazines or old papers to fill out
a box to keep it from rattling. One thing to remember is to take any
identifying information off of what you shove into a box. ie the spam
mail you get at your house, or your old magazines. Both will have your
address. The magazines especially will likely have your fingerprints as
well. Someone correct me if the paper in a magazine won't hold prints, I
could be wrong.
Regardless, stay paranoid, and double and triple
think about how you could be including incriminating things in what you
pack, aside from the actual detection of the contents.
IANAL nor
do I know if LE goes to these lengths. My opinion is if LE is looking
at you or a frequent customer, they will go to the length of checking
packing materials for prints, but that is just my opinion.
No,
paranoia is irrational fear: don't be irrational, be careful and
watchful! I haven't had a vendor try to "pad" a box before, and I think
it's totally unnecessary: weight is only one of the many factors the
post office checks when deciding whether to flag a package or not, and
if that's the only one that pops up (and the package otherwise looks
generic) then they very likely will send it on its way without a second
look. People have to remember: there is far too many packages going
through the post office for them to check any of them in any detail,
unless something really obvious (weed coming out of the box, stains from
a mysterious liquid, strong smells that humans can detect) comes up.
-
Recently
I had a bubble envelope arrive through USPS with no product in it. I
could tell before I opened it that it had been cut open and re-sealed.
Would really appreciate some input on this since I have searched for
this and found no answers.
Sounds
like a straight-up theft, who knows where down the line. LE wouldn't do
that: they always open packages very carefully and reseal them just as
carefully before they attempt a controlled delivery. They would also
leave some product in the envelope, so it's very unlikely you have to
worry about the PD knocking on your door (well for this anyhow)
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I used to work for a company that shipped thousands of marijuana
pipes a day all over the world. Our boxes reaked because we smoked all
day while packaging the shipments. We were sending paraphernalia
and actually worked with UPS WORLDSHIP to circumvent customs. research
worldship, its the tits if you ship alot of stuff. obviously you
shouldnt use a worldship account for shipping contraband.
In the few years i worked there only one shipment got stopped by customs and that was because the invoice was over 10K.
Im
not saying nothing ever gets checked but I think the probability is
very slim that there's a dog smelling every package that gets shipped.
9
times out of 10 the item didnt arrive because the vendor didnt ship.
that tenth time, something happened and the shit was ceased. Most likely
because of faulty packaging.
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Superior info!!
Thnx Dudeguy & Farmerbob. Your expertise is well heeded and very much appreciated ;)
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Just would like to throw my two cents in as yet another ex-UPS employee (where are you FedEx'ers?).
Some
background, I worked for almost 2 years in the late 90's at a medium
sized hub. I worked unload, load, sort aisle, and finally as a
load/training supervisor.
I would first like to say I never, not
once saw a dog or anyone I knew to be police. It was pretty commonly
said that dogs were in use at the airport, but I can't confirm this
myself never having been there. They did have private security. The
couple of them I met, it would not surprise me that they were ex police
or military just by demeanor. They did seem focused on theft prevention
though.
The one incident in my time there that I know drugs were
there was a box that came out of an air shipment container that was
clearly full of good weed (it completely stunk up the supervisor
offices). It was found because the pothead that unloaded the container
took one sniff and then smelled every package as he unloaded it. He
confided in me later that he was planning on taking it but quickly came
to the realization that there was no way to remove it from the
facilities.
The training done there in my time was strictly get
the job done, no suspicious package identification. Keep in mind that
this is before 9/11.
Now, my concerns with shipping UPS...
1.
I would never ship anything but ground. It seems from rumors I heard
and first hand experience of the OP that the airport is their primary
concern for finding drugs.
2. I would never ship small packages
or envelopes or packages exceeding 70 pounds as these are separated from
the rest (in the small sort and irreg train respectively) and could
very easily be exposed to higher scrutiny.
That being said, a
medium sized ground rate box is the quickest and most direct path
through the hub. Assuming no damage, it's highly unlikely that it will
leave the conveyor system anywhere from truck a to truck b except half a
moment while it's in the hands of a sorter.
I would not feel any
worry putting a well packaged box through the UPS ground system. My
major concern would be making sure that if the outer box got damaged and
something fell out that it wouldn't be obvious what it was.
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This was a very interesting read.
When you say the package are 'scanned' what do you mean?
Is
there any X-Ray somewhere? I want to ship package out of the country,
do they put package under X-RAY's to see what's inside?
If so, how do you guys pass the X-RAY ?
Thanks.
this is really important, any employeer that can actually answer this??
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Wow .. Thank you for sharing these tips.. I can't believe vendors would use grocery bags ::)
-
Thanks for the info man!
-
A lot of good information to take in here. Thank you all for posting.
-
good information
-
This was a very interesting read.
When you say the package are 'scanned' what do you mean?
Is
there any X-Ray somewhere? I want to ship package out of the country,
do they put package under X-RAY's to see what's inside?
If so, how do you guys pass the X-RAY ?
Thanks.
this is really important, any employeer that can actually answer this??
I
do believe that aluminum foil will solve your problems, a more
professional way to go about this is heat sealed bags with an aluminum
layer.
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This was a very interesting read.
When you say the package are 'scanned' what do you mean?
Is
there any X-Ray somewhere? I want to ship package out of the country,
do they put package under X-RAY's to see what's inside?
If so, how do you guys pass the X-RAY ?
Thanks.
this is really important, any employeer that can actually answer this??
I
do believe that aluminum foil will solve your problems, a more
professional way to go about this is heat sealed bags with an aluminum
layer.
Foil can be detected trhu x-ray! dont use it,my friend get cought when sending coke from usa.
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This was a very interesting read.
When you say the package are 'scanned' what do you mean?
Is
there any X-Ray somewhere? I want to ship package out of the country,
do they put package under X-RAY's to see what's inside?
If so, how do you guys pass the X-RAY ?
Thanks.
this is really important, any employeer that can actually answer this??
I
do believe that aluminum foil will solve your problems, a more
professional way to go about this is heat sealed bags with an aluminum
layer.
Foil can be detected trhu x-ray! dont use it,my friend get cought when sending coke from usa.
It
depends on the type of foil, I thought. Can you please elaborate, Joy? I
ship domestically only US to US, and I really have had no problems thus
far (although my packages aren't just an envelope looking like
documents with foil inside. I can see where that would cause concern,
but in the same, I'd really like some more info on this if possible as I
might need to change methods???
-
I
use to work for the united parcel service, not to be confused with the
USPS. This is the brown one, but I have been told the operations are
very similar but the USPS operates on a smaller scale, usually handling
mostly LETTERS. (put packages on accident, reason for editing)
Let
me walk you through the process of an envelope being sent at UPS and
you can extrapolate to alter your shipping methods if need be.
1)
Letter gets picked up from the box, sorted by hand and placed into what
is called a "Smalls bag". It is a nylon bag about 3ftx3ft and will scar
your hands up if they are too dry.
2) This bag is filled with items that are all going to the same sorting facility, no dogs are present at this point.
3) The bag makes its way to your local sorting facility where the planes and trucks reside.
(After this point the dogs are present but are not taken to every area and sometimes, not even used for a whole day)
4)
The bag is scanned, opened and placed on a rack so the employee doesn't
have to hold a 70lb bag while he manually scans every individual letter
and puts it in one of up to 10 different shoots which feed the letter
into another person who then puts it in another nylon bag.
5) This
nylon bag is then placed on a conveyor belt that runs the length of the
entire facility so that bags need not be carried or driven to their
loading destination.
6) The bags are sorted by a machine and sent to the appropriate feeder/ULD (large 12x9x9 canister for airplanes)
7)
The can is loaded until full, at this point is where the dogs usually
find and detect a package, it is easier for the police officers to run
the dogs past an already filled container as opposed to running them by
every lane. ALTHOUGH on occasion I have had dogs come by me while
UNLOADING cans but this had only happened twice over a 2 and a half year
period of working there 5 days a week.
8 ) The can is sealed and on
it's way to it's plane. Your package is safe until it reaches it's
destination where it will again be sorted, by hand, by unloaders and
placed onto a delivery truck. Sometimes these final facilities,
dependent on the area you live in, will have more dogs that go into each
delivery truck where the packages are open and not protected by the
nylon bags or stuck under a pile of boxes filled with other non-illict
herbs, fish, reptiles, cakes etc.
***NOTE*** During late spring,
summer and early autumn, the planes cargo compartments reach a VERY high
temperature. I'm not sure of the exact temperature but they are flying
above clouds, receive direct UV exposure and the cargo hold has little
to no air flow. This will cause anything that isn't AT LEAST triple
sealed, to begin to REEK. Anyone who has made hash or cannabutter will
know that when bud is heated slowly it begins to reek. There have been
times when I have opened a ULD (canister for a plane) and literally been
knocked back by how SKUNKY it smelled. One guy I worked with was
actually able to find a package with an oz of bud in it, opened it, and
took it home. He was later fired for stealing but UPS did not know what
it was. I have personally held boxes, turned to put them on conveyor and
a wiff of budd will edge itself out of the crevices of a box. I let
them go on but not everyone appreciates bud like I do and many people
have turned in packages. Turned in packages by UPS are usually allowed
to be delivered and are the last stop for the driver. Where the driver
will hand a police office a uniform, the package and allow him to walk
up to your doorstep and ask you to sign for the package at which point
he will arrest you. They have already inspected this package and know
its contents. This mostly pertains to shipping bud.
A lot of people have stated, do not sign for any packages you order off SR. Take the loss not the jail time.
ADVICE:
If it is over an oz, I'd recommend washing the outside of the vacuum bag in an environment where bud is not being smoked.
EDITED:
Sorry for spreading misinformation, after educating myself further
about the USPS, they WILL dust for fingerprints if you ship a package
which has been opened due to suspicion/x-rays, remove all finger prints!
Wear doctors gloves when handling all shipping equipment.
AND MOST OF ALL*************** BE CAREFUL WITH THE TAPE!********************
This
may sound silly but having shipped a TON of items of non-illicit
content, the packaging tape is basically a finger print recording
device. Don't handle it without gloves on, I know it's hard to get off
gloves, or anything that isn't your hands but oh well.
If
shipping a large amount in a box, seal the box properly. Using 2 layers
of packaging tape is not suspect and is not taught as a suspicious
package procedure. Suspicious package procedures are as follows:
1) Silly names. EX. Joe Bob, Mr. Wang, Cheech and Chong etc etc etc etc.
2) Odd markings on a package
3)
Inproper weight put on the package. If you print your own label and
said that it is 10lbs and it's actually only -1lb and someone notices it
on the box, there is a 20% chance they will report it which will cause a
supervisor to visually inspect it, put his nose up to it, shake it
around etc. If he oks it, which I have seen them do 90% of the time, you
are ok.
4) Seal BOTH sides of the box BUT only seal one side of
the letter. The glue for an envelope is commonly thought as not secure
enough by people who sell normal products. Feel free to use packaging
tape around both ends of the envelope VERY LIGHTLY, one to two runs over
is enough.
5) Make your product stable in the box, when someone
picks it up and its light as feather they can feel a tennis ball sized
object bouncing around, that is suspect. Take the time to use old spam
mail, old magazines and roll them up and place them on a bottom layer,
put your package on top of that, then put several more layers above and
around it. This will cause the package to not shake when rattled, is
cheaper then packing peanuts and better then tossing those old
magazines.
6) The only time I ever saw a police dog tear open a
package and it had a many layered vacuum sealed bag, the dog completely
ignored the bag once he ripped the box apart, he was only interested in
the box. Reason? The dog couldn't smell the weed in the vacuum seal but
smelled some residue on the box itself! Be sure to pack your items in a
clean environment. Do not smoke around your packing materials and do not
pack in the room where you hold the bud. Vacuum the bud in one room,
clean your hands, and package it in the box as described above.
The
dogs they use for packing facilities are near retirement age dogs, the
good ones are left to be used by designated targets of the DEA and for
local law enforcement. They are sometimes not the best sniffers but have
an experienced nose. Take precaution.
I have ONCE seen DEA
jackets at UPS. They know what they are there for. At this point the
vendor is already suspect and his packages have been watched for some
time by local law enforcement. All his shipments are flagged but,
legally, can only be opened with reasonable cause and the only legal way
is actually have evidence of the content (they don't) or the dog finds
something inside it, at which point they open it, deliver it, and press
the buyer into giving up information.
The last paragraph I stated is a very rare occurence and the person must not have been packaging their material well enough.
I
later asked the guy who stole the weed how he found it so easily. He
told me the guy wrapped it like 10 grocery store bags and used like a
whole roll of packaging tape to bind it altogether. This is NOT a
suitable replacement for vacuum sealing.
--->5/25/2012<--
DO
NOT DO THIS! I HAVE READ OF A COUPLE NEW VENDORS SELLING AND SHIPPING
VIA UPS USING GROCERY BAGS. YOU WILL GET YOUR CUSTOMER CAUGHT! IF ANY
FEEDBACK FOR A BUYER STATES THIS, DO NOT BUY! THEY WILL CONTROL SHIP TO
YOUR HOUSE AND MAKE YOU VERY UNCOMFORTABLE/ARRESTED.
I hope you all get some use out of this, please feel free to ask me any questions, I am here to help.
That
was a great, Very informal post. I am curious if anybody on the road
has any idea how canada post operates ? I would assume close to these
methods. I am a new vendor about to be opening shop & am curious if
shipping xpress post out of canada & to other countrys I.E USA is a
safe bet aslong as it is packaged according to this post ? I am used to
doing snail mail with all my vending but dont want to get caught with my
pants down if somebody says i never shipped. So I am curious if a SR
veteran could help me out on this. Would be using xpress post with no
signature shipped from canada.
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You cant use Xpresspost leaving Canada without it requiring a signature on the other end. You can use Expedited though.
Wrap your products properly, make the outside packaging look professional and you wont have any problems with customs.
-
You cant use Xpresspost leaving Canada without it requiring a signature on the other end. You can use Expedited though.
Wrap your products properly, make the outside packaging look professional and you wont have any problems with customs.
Thank you very much for clearing that up for me man :) much appreciated
-
thanks for the info
now i know im doing it good :)
DD
-
Great Post, thank you for sharing your information. While reading I
realized that i follow most of these steps to a T. Pro... what can i
say. LOL. Thank you so much once again.
-
thanks for this info,loads of helpful information
-
I read about buying a shelf company and packages sent to that name,
what would be the next safest bet? someone is always at my house
and I would hate for a controlled delivery come knocking and i'm not
there and someone opens the door and gets thrown in a police car on my
account.
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man dogs can smell parts per million or billion. think of it like
this. a shark can smell one drop of blood in a HUGE OCEAN AREA of
several square miles! Dogs can smell you before they see, hear or taste
you. Dogs are land sharks.lol They can smell a mg of something in a semi
truck. A mg is a lot in dog senses. They dont miss shit like you
urbanized humans. No comparison. If you cant smell it, they still can! I
promise. There is almost no way to get around dogs.
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GUys please help me out if you can with a question...Iv got a
package and i just checked up on the track and it made it from west
coast to close to east coast with no issue, now when i looked at it
today its update was 'arrived at postal office' then it goes to
'Missent' what does missent mean? Have they lost the package or could it
be they made a mistake somehow and it will work itself out? thnx for
any info.. There's no way i should call the post office where it says
'Missent" and ask whats the issue should I?
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Missent works out OK every time I have had it
It means the post office missent it to the wrong postal facility and they are routing it back where it has to go.
Its different then undeliverable as addresses, which is a senders issue.
In my experience anyways.
-
Thanks for this post. I am not a vendor but I found this post very
insightful. I learned so much! It took a lot of time and effort to
answer the questions with such detail and I really appreciate your
efforts.
Thank you!
-
Missent works out OK every time I have had it
It means the post office missent it to the wrong postal facility and they are routing it back where it has to go.
Its different then undeliverable as addresses, which is a senders issue.
In my experience anyways.
Yeah,
I can confirm this for ya my friend. I had several express packages
domestically that showed that same thing. What happened, after some very
paranoid investigation, was that my package was simply thrown in the
wrong sorting bin and left in the wrong truck. Therefore, if the sort
facility it ends up in due to that employee's mistake is not the one
that should have been in succession, the package has to be rerouted to
the facility where the mistake was made (this makes no sense to me, but
anywho) and then is on the correct path. I can say if you call from a
safe number and bitch about it (especially if it's express and
guaranteed; you kinda have em by the short hairs if they don't meet the
deadline and you acknowledge it). You have nothing to worry about most
likely my friend. I can see there being mistakes with the mail as busy
as I'm sure it is.
-
Very interesting read thank you!
I was also a former UPS
worker in a large hub unloading, loading, and finally sorting in my
three month career while going to school. As stated by others I never
saw any dogs or anyone talking about drugs/training what to look for or
anything of that nature. It was a grind job and workers couldn't give
two shats what was in the packages tbh. Don't let paranoia take over
thinking workers are stealing everything... we were watched very closely
and the pace alone of the job would make it very difficult to pull off.
The only thief I ever saw or heard about at the time was a guy who
would take the occasional Columbia club weekly CD (packaging was easily
spotted). Even then the guy would have to crotch the thing at some point
and work with it in his pants... not worth it lol. Maybe at a
smaller terminal this kind of thing could go on but in a hub there is
little if any chance. The amount and speed in which the packages flow in
and out is amazing and anything that slowed down the process was
undesirable. People were literally screamed at if slow or if "missorts"
were found (wrong zip code packages in trucks) and if you ever notice a
UPS driver at your door... he won't stand around to chat and instead
almost runs back to his truck.
My two cents.... speed is their profit driver and your friend here at SR.
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What donkeydong says corresponds with my thoughts.
Vendors
around here get away with alot of "employee theft" and "seizure"
nonsense when in reality the numbers arent high whatsoever.
I've shipped for 3 years rather heavily ... stuff doesnt just vanish and if packaged right it doesnt get taken.
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What donkeydong says corresponds with my thoughts.
Vendors
around here get away with alot of "employee theft" and "seizure"
nonsense when in reality the numbers arent high whatsoever.
I've shipped for 3 years rather heavily ... stuff doesnt just vanish and if packaged right it doesnt get taken.
I
have to agree that the postal system most often is not the problem at
hand when it comes to missing items. I have not ever had an issue
with them and have been sending and receiving whatever to wherever for
the last six or eight years. The only time I ever had an issue it
was due to the person supposedly taking things to the office to be
entered in and sent. Thank-You everyone who contributed to any and
all of the shipping threads. Even old hands almost certainly have
learned a few helpful pointers from these threads if read all the way
through. If nothing else you will be more aware of every little
action you are taking whether good, bad, or neutral. It has
certainly got me thinking and as I said I've not had even one issue with
any delivery service in over half a decade.
-
Excellent post. Really liked the idea for vendors to try training up
their own dogs to pre-sniff out-going parcels therefore ruling out what
seems to be the biggest threat other than bad packaging.
Being from
the UK, I'm wondering if the filth can legitimately search yr post if
they know you have a record...reasonable suspicion n all that?
-
Hey mate!! what can you tell me about sending pills through?? I
am a pill seller here on SR, don't do weed etc. I am trying to find out
possible methods of reducing the rattle of pills if they are blister
packed and what is a strict no no!!
Thanks in advance!! :)
-
Indian PD,
Take the pills out the blister pack and line them
up ad vac seal them ..That way the pills stay fresh and also
reduce the risk of breaking.. Then stealth hide them with whatever
method you use..
Sending pills in blister packs is not the
smartst idea cause of the rattle.. SO i reccomend taking them out and
arranging them one by one. If you dont have a vac seal ,
take the
pill then a piece of tape and put the pills one by one on the sticky
side of the tape, and then tape that inside a dvd case or something..
But Iv got pills from te ALL MIGHT AUS that way with no issue. you can
put allot of pills to a long piece of tape and the pillswill stick to it
..
-
Good info! Great to know the actual step by step procedures!
Thank you
-
Fizzy is quite correct, a dog can detect ridiculously small quantities of volatiles.
Okay
then, that's more than merely informative, it's revelatory. So here's
my question for vendors and customers alike: is there anyone -- ANYONE
-- here on SR, any vendor, who operates at this level of
contamination/emission control, and does the kinds of things outlined
here?
Because if there is, I want to know so I can become their
customer. And if not, guess I'll just have to move to California or
something.
Thanks, FarmerBob
-
Fizzy is quite correct, a dog can detect ridiculously small quantities of volatiles.
Okay
then, that's more than merely informative, it's revelatory. So here's
my question for vendors and customers alike: is there anyone -- ANYONE
-- here on SR, any vendor, who operates at this level of
contamination/emission control, and does the kinds of things outlined
here?
Because if there is, I want to know so I can become their
customer. And if not, guess I'll just have to move to California or
something.
Thanks, FarmerBob
FarmerBob
had some really great words of wisdom. Like him I take security very
seriously and continually strive to improve. Selling bud to my friends
and now on SR might be my hobby but it's no game. The consequences for
all of us are too great.
Read about my current procedure when
packaging
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=119458.150
Sending
packages safely s a major time suck and if your vendors motivation is
purely monetary they will take short cuts. Quiz your vendors on their
safety procedures and if you don't feel they are sufficient for the risk
DON'T ORDER.
-
Read
about my current procedure when packaging
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=119458.150
Gotta tell you man, your care with packaging is impressive. That's clearly the way to go.
-
Hi, do you know if LSD Blotters are somehow visible on scanners/X
ray machines? I assume they are not, but it is always good to know more
:)
THNX
-
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Interesting Readl....Thank you bra
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
-
Here is a very informative post made by a USPS postal worker, it should be collated here with all this good shipping info:
dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=165838.0
-
Very useful. Thank you for this information!
- IW
-
Thanks for this post. I don't sell, but I sure do buy and I always
like to ask questions about packaging before I do buy, so now I know
what to ask.