Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: bestalignment on January 12, 2013, 01:47 pm
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http://www.thedea.org/neurotoxicity.html and http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_media1.shtml both I think claim that no permanent damage can happen if used right.If you read though thedea.org then you should have enough info to use MDMA safely and I quote it alot. I've looked around the internet myself and found so many places that claim MDMA causes permanent damage to the brain and possibly all kinds of other stuff but all but 1 of 8 or so that I looked at had some dumb thing like ecstasy is laced with rat poison (plenty of other things that just seem like complete lies so people won't try MDMA) that to me discredits the whole thing. The 1 that seemed to not have clear lies in it said something about the dopamine storage things in your brain getting overloaded but I think thedea.org (not sure why the name is the dea.org I don't think the government made the site its a .org after all i don't know who made the site)says that that's a lie as well.
Interestingly I forget who exactly or the articles i was reading from some news sites after searching for info on Google but anyway 3 health board government heads of like their country's said basically ecstasy was safe one stated that taking ecstasy was safer then riding a horse and was fired another stated that he was for the legalization of ecstasy and was fired another stated that the legalization of ecstasy would be fine but he wasn't for it and wasn't fired.
I read from the MDMA is nerotoxic post here an article that was cited which stated that MDMA was basically bad for you i didn't even bother with the whole thing it was way to complicated but at the end a reference was from Ricaurte and the http://www.thedea.org/neurotoxicity.html page states that he's a fraud. I also don't like people saying that you should space your rolls to like 2-3 months the thedea.org says one month.(im not a user yet but soon will be if i can make it myself then definitely)The thedea.org or some article said that MDMA users don't drink or smoke as much as non-users so I could say that cancer and car crashes could be avoided by using MDMA although I wouldn't really suggest driving on MDMA some article was saying that its a stimulant instead of a tranquilizer like alcohol so you understand when your too messed up to drive better. I could say that MDMA prevents deaths and promotes health indirectly in many ways.
My other posts are "spreading MDMA, drug harm reduction charity for increasing good drug use,
Interesting site to look at would be leap.cc(law enforcement against prohibition) they want legalization and regulation for all drugs I think.
Ugh so many bloggers if theirs some more good evidence that MDMA ecstasy is safe then ill copy past your name and info here at the beginning. Please even circumstantial evidence like the 3 articals will do.
My explanation of bias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring
Well I'm out be sure to read drug harm reduction charity for increasing good drug use.
http://www.atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/scientific-method-for-dummies I copied my pic from there.
From OzFreelancer
I wrote this article: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dancing-with-molly-20121203-2ar04.html and interviewed a lot of experts with many many years experience as doctors, psychologists and in pharmacology. They didn't come right out and say it was 'safe' but they all agreed it was far safer - on every level - than alcohol.
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In Britain we have been aloud to test MDMA to see if it has therapeutic effects, Well i'll let you see for yourself: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/drugs-live-the-ecstasy-trial/articles/the-drugs-live-trust-test Watch both parts of these and you'll see scientific history! Its worth a watch if you are that worried about the long-term effects of MDMA.
Hope it helped :)
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They were trying to find a new way to cure Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and it worked they only really had one bad experiment and that was from the S.A.S soldier, Who works for the S.A.S... I mean come on... You think this guy wouldn't try fighting the effects, You're trained to suppress drugs in the S.A.S (in case you're by the enemy) so giving someone like a S.A.S soldier a drug which makes your body go 'POW!' is definitely going to have negative effects. The test were very successful and they're doing more test with MDMA due to it medical value. Trust me it was sooo worth the watch, A vicar on MDMA :D:D Awesome!
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They were trying to find a new way to cure Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and it worked they only really had one bad experiment and that was from the S.A.S soldier, Who works for the S.A.S... I mean come on... You think this guy wouldn't try fighting the effects, You're trained to suppress drugs in the S.A.S (in case you're by the enemy) so giving someone like a S.A.S soldier a drug which makes your body go 'POW!' is definitely going to have negative effects. The test were very successful and they're doing more test with MDMA due to it medical value. Trust me it was sooo worth the watch, A vicar on MDMA :D:D Awesome!
Im really all for mdma but this post is for evidence that MDMA is safe so keep it simple and delete anything else.( not that i don't want to discuss it even on this post for a couple of hours maybe then delete irrelevant chat)
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It may cause no permanent damage, if discontinued; that doesn't mean it's harmless and free of negative effects, or that it won't fuck you up psychologically.
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As a rule... mind altering drugs are likely to... alter your mind.
Personally though I think the best evidence of MDMA's safety comes from the sheer number of people who have eaten it for years. Some people have lost it of course but MDMA is one of those weird drugs you fiend for when you are on it but then go weeks or months before finding an opportunity to take it again. People who don't abide by the wait a while thing just end up taking too much too often and loose the magical part of the drug experience.
I cringe a little whenever I hear the MDMA neuro-toxic thing just because all they do is test the stuff on rats with dose ratios beyond what any human would take and then point out that sometimes bad things happen. Any human observations are almost always anecdotal and have no way to determine if any given issue was cased by MDMA or any of the other drugs people take with or without thinking it was just ecstasy.
I'm all about this stuff just getting legalized eventually since it really does have some amazing non-recreational uses.
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It may cause no permanent damage, if discontinued; that doesn't mean it's harmless and free of negative effects, or that it won't fuck you up psychologically.
Like I really just want articals/experiments that state that ecstasy MDMA dosn't cause permanent damage I've only found two big comprehesive ones and the three news articals. Its hard to belive when most drug propaganda says that ecstasy will turn your brain into swiss cheese. Id say most things that people tell you are hard to belive when it comes to scientists and the government remember the tobacco scandal I think they got away with saying tobacco doesn't cause cancer or maybe I forget but I think they said health problems in general as well for the longest time then I don't know what happened to the tobacco company's besides getting sued a few times and all of them are still making alot of money as far as I know.
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Can you PLEASE format your post so people will be able to read it? It's a extremely interesting topic and the sources you provide are good. However, no one will take you seriously when you expressing yourself like that. Use paragraphs, commas and dots.
So please edit your post so other people will read it and we can have a good discussion with knowledgeable people.
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Like I really just want articals/experiments that state that ecstasy MDMA dosn't cause permanent damage I've only found two big comprehesive ones and the three news articals. Its hard to belive when most drug propaganda says that ecstasy will turn your brain into swiss cheese. Id say most things that people tell you are hard to belive when it comes to scientists and the government remember the tobacco scandal I think they got away with saying tobacco doesn't cause cancer or maybe I forget but I think they said health problems in general as well for the longest time then I don't know what happened to the tobacco company's besides getting sued a few times and all of them are still making alot of money as far as I know.
I wrote this article: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dancing-with-molly-20121203-2ar04.html and interviewed a lot of experts with many many years experience as doctors, psychologists and in pharmacology. They didn't come right out and say it was 'safe' but they all agreed it was far safer - on every level - than alcohol.
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It may cause no permanent damage, if discontinued; that doesn't mean it's harmless and free of negative effects, or that it won't fuck you up psychologically.
If you bother to read thedea.org then thats what im saying. Please delete posts like this i put in if you read though thedea.org then you should have enough info to use mdma safely.
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I have always believed in the therapeutic use of psychedelics. However, though it seems you are aware of this, look at the title of this thread.
'IS' safe vs 'CAN BE USED' safely are different. I was never aware of these crazy rumours that MDMA caused holes in the brain and such. They don't sound much different than the LSD rumours, like after 6 uses you are clinically insane.
It is great to get the word out about this kind of information but I can't help but feel that it is ridiculous, perhaps just in the way it is being presented.
Heroin, in moderation, is safe. Meth, in moderation, is safe. Alcohol, in moderation, is safe, Cigarettes, in moderation, probably pretty damn safe. Get my point?
I love to quote Shulgin, who said no more than twice a year and no more than ~20-30 times in the life. Now I know that is probably a big exaggeration and was not backed up by much at the time. The plasticity of the brain is astounding. Its ability to bounce back from damage is amazing. MDMA puts a lot of strain on the brain, I don't think anyone can argue against this. Yes, proper supplementation and taking precautions can help.
How often is MDMA abused vs used in moderation? The people I know use multiple pills over multiple nights. By the end of it they have trouble forming coherent sentences. Partying with MDMA can be therapeutic, but it sure isn't the way psychiatrists would use it. Self-medicating isn't necessarily safe for the body or the mind.
Just remember, many of the substances we use are relatively new in the grand scheme of humanity. We are the monkeys, shooting ourselves into space. People love their MDMA and want to justify its use. One or two studies or websites is not proof. I'd say that educated MDMA use can be safer, but don't jump ahead and say it is safe.
Please don't ask people to delete posts just because they offer a different opinion on the subject.
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It sounds like the OP is on a mission to find a way to believe what he wants to believe, and only what he wants to believe.
I love MDMA. I use it every 1-3 months. I believe it is relatively safe to use at this frequency. According to research I have done combined with how I feel from my personal experiences, I believe it's something that shouldn't be used too frequently because it will indeed cause, if not brain "damage," brain changes. Changes you wouldn't want such as depression and a lack of excitability. Also possibly issues with the memory, and other body function issues resulting from serotonin changes.
You can believe whatever you want, and if you find a couple of articles that support what you believe, that doesn't mean it's true. Just like the Bible is not proof of the existence of God, but you can still believe it is, if that's what you want to believe. Face it: You're messing with your brain chemistry. Do you really think that's 100% safe? Everything has its price.
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As a rule... mind altering drugs are likely to... alter your mind.
Personally though I think the best evidence of MDMA's safety comes from the sheer number of people who have eaten it for years. Some people have lost it of course but MDMA is one of those weird drugs you fiend for when you are on it but then go weeks or months before finding an opportunity to take it again. People who don't abide by the wait a while thing just end up taking too much too often and loose the magical part of the drug experience.
I cringe a little whenever I hear the MDMA neuro-toxic thing just because all they do is test the stuff on rats with dose ratios beyond what any human would take and then point out that sometimes bad things happen. Any human observations are almost always anecdotal and have no way to determine if any given issue was cased by MDMA or any of the other drugs people take with or without thinking it was just ecstasy.
I'm all about this stuff just getting legalized eventually since it really does have some amazing non-recreational uses.
4/5 of the circle of friends I usually roll with have been rolling pretty frequently for years (many times on a weekly basis for a month here or there) and we certainly aren't suffering any consequences.
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It sounds like the OP is on a mission to find a way to believe what he wants to believe, and only what he wants to believe.
I love MDMA. I use it every 1-3 months. I believe it is relatively safe to use at this frequency. According to research I have done combined with how I feel from my personal experiences, I believe it's something that shouldn't be used too frequently because it will indeed cause, if not brain "damage," brain changes. Changes you wouldn't want such as depression and a lack of excitability. Also possibly issues with the memory, and other body function issues resulting from serotonin changes.
You can believe whatever you want, and if you find a couple of articles that support what you believe, that doesn't mean it's true. Just like the Bible is not proof of the existence of God, but you can still believe it is, if that's what you want to believe. Face it: You're messing with your brain chemistry. Do you really think that's 100% safe? Everything has its price.
Yes while I state that mdma is safe I do think people should seek 'good' counter information and state then state it consecutively(?). hehe as indivduals were dumb as a group were idiosyncrasy(smart). In some scene were all gods as we can't be turned simply into space. Heres some words reversed think well(price has everything).
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i have been doing molly and pressed pills since i was i gotta say 15? and i had some pretty good party summers with some of the OG pokeball makers now M80 are out and these are the OG's from back in the day. i havnt had anything noticeable wrong with me and i belive i am also just fine like i have not done anything hardcore before. now their is people that i know who have done it and seem to be stupid. so i dont know whats up with that. and now im 6-7 years older from when i started i gotta say. if you seen me you would be very shocked for my appearance..
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Like I really just want articals/experiments that state that ecstasy MDMA dosn't cause permanent damage I've only found two big comprehesive ones and the three news articals. Its hard to belive when most drug propaganda says that ecstasy will turn your brain into swiss cheese. Id say most things that people tell you are hard to belive when it comes to scientists and the government remember the tobacco scandal I think they got away with saying tobacco doesn't cause cancer or maybe I forget but I think they said health problems in general as well for the longest time then I don't know what happened to the tobacco company's besides getting sued a few times and all of them are still making alot of money as far as I know.
I wrote this article: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dancing-with-molly-20121203-2ar04.html and interviewed a lot of experts with many many years experience as doctors, psychologists and in pharmacology. They didn't come right out and say it was 'safe' but they all agreed it was far safer - on every level - than alcohol.
I was actually going to come in here and post this article.. Read it a while back and found it pretty good. You're a real journalist, might I add. Not one of those bollocks ones that'll right anything to get it read.
And that means a lot coming from me, someone who grew a deep hate for journos in my football hooligan days. Seen you round the forum and actually like all of your writing. :)
It's cool that we can actually have someone like you around here.
But, yes in my eyes Molly is 'safe'. I actually feel better on the comedown of MDMA, than I do if I was to drink a considerable amount.
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Like I really just want articals/experiments that state that ecstasy MDMA dosn't cause permanent damage I've only found two big comprehesive ones and the three news articals. Its hard to belive when most drug propaganda says that ecstasy will turn your brain into swiss cheese. Id say most things that people tell you are hard to belive when it comes to scientists and the government remember the tobacco scandal I think they got away with saying tobacco doesn't cause cancer or maybe I forget but I think they said health problems in general as well for the longest time then I don't know what happened to the tobacco company's besides getting sued a few times and all of them are still making alot of money as far as I know.
I wrote this article: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/dancing-with-molly-20121203-2ar04.html and interviewed a lot of experts with many many years experience as doctors, psychologists and in pharmacology. They didn't come right out and say it was 'safe' but they all agreed it was far safer - on every level - than alcohol.
I was actually going to come in here and post this article.. Read it a while back and found it pretty good. You're a real journalist, might I add. Not one of those bollocks ones that'll right anything to get it read.
And that means a lot coming from me, someone who grew a deep hate for journos in my football hooligan days. Seen you round the forum and actually like all of your writing. :)
It's cool that we can actually have someone like you around here.
But, yes in my eyes Molly is 'safe'. I actually feel better on the comedown of MDMA, than I do if I was to drink a considerable amount.
That's really lovely of you MrAnon :) I appreciate that sort of feedback a lot.
I feel rather inclined to +1 you ::)
x Eiley
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Ok finaly cleared my head with this thought. though anti mdma propaganda is spreading mdma and improving the quality it's likely giving mdma a bad legal wrap. So basically for short term growth it's good in a quantity sense (quality-definitely-suffering) for long term growth it would be better to have it legalized. Im thinking in terms of doing the best with what I have.