Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: 00OOIlI00lO1O0 on January 12, 2013, 07:11 pm
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Is there anything you would like to share about your experience? Anything the rest of us should know? What did you learn about typical jurors?
Please name your country if replying, as the law works differently in different places.
Be sure to strip out identifying information.
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Not from having been on a jury but from a lot of research into the different cases that have been had, I would say the best way to influence a jury on a drug trial would be to convince them that the drugs were recreational vs. distributable. In the US at least juries love individual rights but abhor "selling drugs".
If I were in the trade of selling drugs, personally I would keep a log book with an insane amount of use documented. While the quantity you have may demand "intent to sell" charges, if you can convince a jury that 250mg of MDMA is recreational and personal you might be in a better position than without it.
Just my 2 cents, would love to hear what real world jurors have to say on the subject.
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Never. But if I found myself on a jury, I would refuse to convict someone selling or using drugs.
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Not from having been on a jury but from a lot of research into the different cases that have been had, I would say the best way to influence a jury on a drug trial would be to convince them that the drugs were recreational vs. distributable. In the US at least juries love individual rights but abhor "selling drugs".
If I were in the trade of selling drugs, personally I would keep a log book with an insane amount of use documented. While the quantity you have may demand "intent to sell" charges, if you can convince a jury that 250mg of MDMA is recreational and personal you might be in a better position than without it.
Just my 2 cents, would love to hear what real world jurors have to say on the subject.
So your advice is to admit that you are guilty and keep detailed records of previous crimes?
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Not from having been on a jury but from a lot of research into the different cases that have been had, I would say the best way to influence a jury on a drug trial would be to convince them that the drugs were recreational vs. distributable. In the US at least juries love individual rights but abhor "selling drugs".
If I were in the trade of selling drugs, personally I would keep a log book with an insane amount of use documented. While the quantity you have may demand "intent to sell" charges, if you can convince a jury that 250mg of MDMA is recreational and personal you might be in a better position than without it.
Just my 2 cents, would love to hear what real world jurors have to say on the subject.
So your advice is to admit that you are guilty and keep detailed records of previous crimes?
My advice is that if you have massive amounts of sell-able drugs in the house (which is stupid to begin with) that you also have some method of creating reasonable doubt that those drugs were in fact for sale. Here's a cut and past form a California lawyers page that says it better than I can:
In California, it is a felony to possess drugs with the intent to sell them. To prove a possession for sale of drugs case, it does not need to be shown that there was an actual sale of drugs. Rather, it only needs to be proven that the individual had the intent to sell drugs. Intent to sell is often proved by looking at a combination of factors such as:
Amount of drugs possessed
How the drugs were packaged
Large sums of money
Weighing devices such as scales
Packaging materials such as baggies or bindles
Cell phones and pagers
Text messages
People going in or out of a residence or vehicle
Notes regarding money paid or owed
Undercover police officers
Recorded conversations
Any combination of these factors can be used to charge you with possession for sale. It is not unusual for drug sale cases to be overcharged, meaning that people are often charged as drug dealers even though they are really just drug users in need of help. The penalties for the sale of drugs can be severe, carrying lengthy jail or prison sentences.
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I get where you are coming from... admit to something to a police officer? No, have collateral evidence admissible in the event of a trial that helps destroy prosecutors efforts to label you as a drug peddler vs. just a drug user that got caught with a lot of stuff. It might seem like a waste of time but if that "use journal" dropped a charge from 20 years of prison to 3 weeks mandatory treatment well I think it would be worth it for an extra 19 years and 49 weeks of free life.
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Hi ,my brother got chosen for dury duty for a cocaine supply case and he isnt anti drug use at all but the lawyer chose to not have him in the dury . Stupid lawyer chose a bunch of older straight asses instead of a pro recreational coke use person .
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The Jury does not sentence you so why bother giving them a detailed record of your crimes? if you are caught with 250 g of mdma and found guilty you will be sentenced accordingly by a judge and no judge will believe you keep that much for personal use....
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The Jury does not sentence you so why bother giving them a detailed record of your crimes? if you are caught with 250 g of mdma and found guilty you will be sentenced accordingly by a judge and no judge will believe you keep that much for personal use....
In your state that might be the case. Not in all states though.
Regardless, the jury still needs to CONVICT you of the crime and if they have a reasonable doubt that you were going to sell the drugs vs. use them then you have a chance of not doing hard time.
I totally get where you are coming from, never admit to anything. It's just the difference between intent to sell and possession can be decades and I would really really prefer to get stuck with possession charges. Almost every drug trial that I have followed starts with an INSANE list of charges from the prosecutor that the defense attempts to widdle away and reduce. I guess what you are saying is that you do not think it's possible to convince someone that a stash is for personal use and all I am saying is that you are probably right, but it is FAR MORE likely that someone could do it if there was a record of that usage pattern.
No desire to flame on this at all. Mostly I think it would be much better not to have a huge stash with you when they come knocking on the door. Personally I would want to do everything in my power to convince a jury that I was a drug addict in need of help vs. a drug seller who is trying to get their kids high :->
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I've been called for jury duty in a case where the defendant was accused of selling coke to an undercover pig. He ple-barganed out and was sentenced to some ridiculously long amount of time (20+ years, if I recall). Personally, I would want to see video of the sale with the accused face clear, absolutely clear, otherwise, it could be someone else (reasonable doubt). An officer's word, or even several officers' word is worthless.
I consider someone selling drugs as a capitalist, merely supplying a demand (this doesn't hold true if the person was caught ON VIDEO with some obscene amount of, say, cocaine - like dozens or hundreds of kilos).
I get the idea that too many people are "coerced" into ple-barganing out; if everyone accused of such crimes would insist on a jury trial, the whole system could be ground to a halt.
>:(
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I have watched them on the TV if that means anything... :o
If you are caught and you know that no matter what you are going to get a sentence (like if the police have enough evidence) make up some bullshit sob story to try and get the jurors to be a little less harsh on you.
If LE have jack shit on you, tell them your name and then say nothing, or laugh uncontrollably, or sing, tell jokes - as long as you say nothing incriminating or something that has anything to do with what they are talking about.
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Tell the pigs to suck a fat dick, that's all.
Let your lawyer talk for you, that's what they get paid for.
Don't fuck up the lawyer's chances by running your flap.
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No but if i was it certainly would be a mistrial :)
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I've been called for jury duty in a case where the defendant was accused of selling coke to an undercover pig. He ple-barganed out and was sentenced to some ridiculously long amount of time (20+ years, if I recall). Personally, I would want to see video of the sale with the accused face clear, absolutely clear, otherwise, it could be someone else (reasonable doubt). An officer's word, or even several officers' word is worthless.
I consider someone selling drugs as a capitalist, merely supplying a demand (this doesn't hold true if the person was caught ON VIDEO with some obscene amount of, say, cocaine - like dozens or hundreds of kilos).
I get the idea that too many people are "coerced" into ple-barganing out; if everyone accused of such crimes would insist on a jury trial, the whole system could be ground to a halt.
>:(
Somebody with an obscene amount of drugs is still just a capitalist; a successful one. However someone caught on video with them is an UNSUCCESSFUL capitalist!
If you are going to look at it in those terms; the reason that the drug business is such a profitable one is because of the risk of imprisonment. Some capitalists choose to deal in legal goods such as coffee and tobacco; the profits are not as high but there is no risk of prison. Others choose to sell heroin and cocaine; where the profits are much higher due to our insane drug laws causing scarcity.
It's just a condition of business for them.
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The whole idea of prohibition creates these fucked up incentives. Like the drug business is regarded as being inherently violent. It's not; it's just that people dealing in illegal drugs are outside the protection of the law and cannot call on it to settle disputes. They have to turn to more traditional methods of conflict resolution. Equally, violent and ruthless people are drawn to such a business; where their character traits will give them an advantage.
While I strongly disagree with prohibition, I don't feel much sympathy for a high up cocaine dealer.... they know the risks and rewards and decide on their career precisely because of the high rewards.