Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: xblackbladex on January 17, 2013, 01:25 pm
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Look at the comments at the bottom of this article to read real testimonies.
Unlike the last one, this thread is open for free discussion and/or debate.
In good taste let's keep this thread friendly and clean! Thank you.
Check out this article and if you continue a clearnet query you'll find there are many articles alike this one.
http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/suboxone-depression-anxiety-and-pain/
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I'll throw in one anecdotal report of suboxone stabilizing depression. Yes.
However this is NOT an effective treatment. Getting off suboxone involved a loong and incredibly awful withdrawal syndrome (far worse than heroin). YMMV.
And staying on suboxone has a host of negative side effects that make you want to get off it -- chronic debilitating constipation, central hypogonadism, low sex drive, constant nausea, the chemical shackles, & cetera.
I'd recommend VIGOROUS PHYSICAL EXERCISE, regularly, over a long period of time. Seriously. Horror of horrors to mention that in a drugs forum I know. But hey, you asked.
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that was what I was trying to explain in the other thread, it might work short term but in the long term will not, just the same as benzos stop working and then you're left hooked on a drug that can be very hard to come off.
I was on subutex for 6 months doing an opiate detox, at times yes I would feel happy and content, especially in the early days, but as I lowered doses it soon stopped having any anti anxiety benefits, and def made me feel worse, very emotional as well as making me feel very lethargic. the rebound anxiety was horrible too, felt more anxious than I ever did pre sub days. IMO it should be used as a short term detox drug from opiates and nothing else off the book. I wouldn't want anyone to experience what I did unless it was to come off an even worse opi.
h
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I tried subutex for a week...Hated it. Im on methadone and will be for life, and have no problem with it cause it helps my pain and also no WD's when i decide to go on a H binge..Thank god btw iv got a Nice half coming saturday
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that was what I was trying to explain in the other thread, it might work short term but in the long term will not, just the same as benzos stop working and then you're left hooked on a drug that can be very hard to come off.
I was on subutex for 6 months doing an opiate detox, at times yes I would feel happy and content, especially in the early days, but as I lowered doses it soon stopped having any anti anxiety benefits, and def made me feel worse, very emotional as well as making me feel very lethargic. the rebound anxiety was horrible too, felt more anxious than I ever did pre sub days. IMO it should be used as a short term detox drug from opiates and nothing else off the book. I wouldn't want anyone to experience what I did unless it was to come off an even worse opi.
h
I was given Adavan a few years ago in the hospital during a psychotic break because my friend gave me 2 pills of meth and told me they were mdma. I have never felt a more horrible feeling than getting off that drug, and i was completely out of my mind, and couldn't even process reality. If the withdrawel of this medication is worse than that, then i can't even fucking imagine
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Benzodiazepine withdrawals are very nasty. Which is why I use them sparingly. Benzos and alcohol withdrawals are the only two withdrawals that 50% of the time should be done in a hospital because of the possibility of having a seizure and dying. I've tried every CLASS(not every med) but every class of psych meds and they have brought the worst out of me. I feel there was a lot of misunderstanding in the argument we had before which escalated too fast. I have been through the worst of the worst withdrawals and respect opiate withdrawals for what they are. Never did I say once however that Iwas planning on using suboxone every single day. We never even got that far into the conversation before everyone jumped down my threat calling me "stupid" and "naive". That is why I got so angry I felt disrespected, I think we're all more mature than that. I think we should all be open minded towards each others opinions without resorting to obnoxious forms of criticism. I call a truce.
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just quit taking subutex 3 days ago. i have been on 32mg daily,iv use only.
only way to do this without getting sick is to buy bulk percocet,roxies, take 15mg twice day for month.
then quit the percs or ween off,but i will just quit and take the 3-4 days of hell over 2 months of depression and wanting to die during early w/ds.
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Benzodiazepine withdrawals are very nasty. Which is why I use them sparingly. Benzos and alcohol withdrawals are the only two withdrawals that 50% of the time should be done in a hospital because of the possibility of having a seizure and dying. I've tried every CLASS(not every med) but every class of psych meds and they have brought the worst out of me. I feel there was a lot of misunderstanding in the argument we had before which escalated too fast. I have been through the worst of the worst withdrawals and respect opiate withdrawals for what they are. Never did I say once however that Iwas planning on using suboxone every single day. We never even got that far into the conversation before everyone jumped down my threat calling me "stupid" and "naive". That is why I got so angry I felt disrespected, I think we're all more mature than that. I think we should all be open minded towards each others opinions without resorting to obnoxious forms of criticism. I call a truce.
Gladly. I definitely feel it was a misunderstanding that got way way out of hand. I'm glad we're able to talk without being furious at each other. I just mentioned in the other thread you made about sleep something i just remembered. I have a friend that takes GHB for sleep, it is a very powerful sedative. Please refer to my other post for a little more in depth info.
Honestly if you aren't getting any sleep, then that's what your depression is from IMO. We need to find a way to knock you out when you want to sleep, and i bet the depression/mental issues would just dissolve. I am a horribly nasty person when i have no sleep and my head is pounding, so i understand how hard it can be
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This is long, so don't read it if you don't like long posts. - Remember, I warned you.
If I could delete any drug file from my life it would be the suboxone one. This prolonged my addiction to opiates by another 3 years. I wasn't a heroin addict, not even an oxy abuser. I was a former drug addict and alcoholic, and been clean for 7 years, then over time I had slips, got 1 year straight, then back, then marriage, babies, responsibility. Enjoyed the occasional beer, but was focused on family.
Eventually I got old. (ever happened to you? -sorry) and my body started to not "bounce back" the way it used to. I had a job with a major utility corporation, and had back problems. Started with the Lortab, then I found a Dr who was fresh out of med school, loved my flirting with her. (wasn't exactly a looker, so it was out of kindness). I told her the 4 Lortab (10's) a day weren't cutting it, and she said she was more worried about the Tylenol (acetaminophen) amount, than the narcotic amount. She suggested a new drug called Avinza. aka Kadian aka MS Contin. - Told me it had morphine, but it was a once a day pill.
I don't need to go on. You know where that led.
Dr shopping, etc, waaay before the pill mills of Florida, and the DEA crackdown of 2010 and onward. - Though it was the NY State crackdown on all pain meds, with the introduction of the "Mark of the Devil" IMHO - The UPC coded prescription forms. - It's even worse now with the HIPPA law which took away your freedoms to have access to the pain meds you want and need.
I finally decided/remembered that I was a drug addict. - Checked in to a clinic. Had heard about suboxone (this was pre-film to give you a time frame), and most said "avoid it at all costs" go with Methadone if you must go.
I protested, and asked for Methadone, but this hospital obviously had a deal with Reckitt Benckiser, probably got all their cleaning products they make along with the deal.
After day 3 of "waiting for a bed", I had twisted and turned and sweated and shitted my way through the worst of it. Although, a 4th night was coming, and a beautiful nurse practitioner had a long talk with me about suboxone. She explained to me that those who say not to take Suboxone, are usually just junkies that want to get high on their old drug, not those serious about getting clean.
That was a life changing moment. - I took the bait. - Was given Suboxone, gabapentin, and clonidine, and when I went to sleep that night, I felt like I was falling, but in a good way, I saw colors going by as I went down, down, down. Until I woke up the next morning, feeling like I was still fucked up from a night of heavy partying.
That falling was suboxone stealing my soul, and anything left of the sharpness of my central nervous system.
I was setup with a Dr when I got out who Rx'd suboxone, another lackey out for the payola from big pharma Reckitt Benckiser. I started to notice that I was acting retarded. I would take a pee, and forget to zip up. Like everyday !!!- I had two small children at the time. Sex drive was gone. I got what looked like Shingles, though I never had Chicken Pox. I noticed I had blurry vision and was told it would go away. I started getting tinnitus -ringing in my ears. As a part-time musician, this was like blindness to a painter artist. -- I decided I would wean off. - The Dr wanted me on for at least 8 months.
I said "NO" and went online looking for support. - Finally found the wean down to a crumb at a time way, and got there.
Permanent vision damage. After 45 years of 20-10 marksman-like vision I was always told, as my job required annual vision checkups. Now I was getting vision loss like a 55-60 year old. The tinnitus was maddening. The restless leg syndrome was torture. That shit fucked up my body but good.
I finally found a Pain Mgt Dr who worked with me, and gave me Oxy 15mg 4 pills a day, and said "By this time next year, I will have you off of all opiates" - I didn't want to hear that, but hell, a year of 4 15mg Oxy's a day? Better than nothing. - Well he was very focused on physical rehabilitation. I had to attend mandatory "stretching exercise" class, plus a piss test every month.
The following year, I was down to 3 pills a day. Next month 2, and I knew it was coming so I just stopped, went through my last opiate withdrawal (wasn't as bad as the Morphine cold turkey, or the long drawn out side effect and permanent damage of Suboxone) I even kept one pill in case of emergency and 1 week after my last pill, I took that pill and threw it in the river.
Bottom line? - Suboxone should be banned. Bringing back Quaaludes would make more sense. - Now for some reason my drug of choice is Adderall (amphetamine). When I'm without it, I do get depressed, but no side effects, diarrhea or RLS.
That is my opinion. I feel there are no benefits of Suboxone. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another shitty RC "Research Chemical".
Go on Youtube sometime and look for a blonde chick who documents her Suboxone "therapy". She looks pretty decent right before she starts Suboxone. Then day by day, her face loses it's youthful appearance. Her speech becomes very drone like. I had to stop watching after like week 3 or 4. - I didn't want to leave a comment, and ruin her "progress", because how do I know, if she wasn't saved by it?
Her next fix of dope could've been an OD, or tainted shit, or be in a drug deal ripoff, murder, what have you.
I'll leave it at that. - Sorry if I rambled and it was long. Nobody put a gun to your head to read this.
Still opiate-dependant free. I even finally got around to trying Heroin. Stupid move, I know, but once a month? Split a gram with a friend? - Recreationally ? No problem.
Touch Suboxone again? - You'd have to put a gun to MY head! I'll always have addiction in my blood, I'm just a little, NO, a LOT wiser from my 50+years of experience.
Peace
jagfug
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This is long, so don't read it if you don't like long posts. - Remember, I warned you.
If I could delete any drug file from my life it would be the suboxone one. This prolonged my addiction to opiates by another 3 years. I wasn't a heroin addict, not even an oxy abuser. I was a former drug addict and alcoholic, and been clean for 7 years, then over time I had slips, got 1 year straight, then back, then marriage, babies, responsibility. Enjoyed the occasional beer, but was focused on family.
Eventually I got old. (ever happened to you? -sorry) and my body started to not "bounce back" the way it used to. I had a job with a major utility corporation, and had back problems. Started with the Lortab, then I found a Dr who was fresh out of med school, loved my flirting with her. (wasn't exactly a looker, so it was out of kindness). I told her the 4 Lortab (10's) a day weren't cutting it, and she said she was more worried about the Tylenol (acetaminophen) amount, than the narcotic amount. She suggested a new drug called Avinza. aka Kadian aka MS Contin. - Told me it had morphine, but it was a once a day pill.
I don't need to go on. You know where that led.
Dr shopping, etc, waaay before the pill mills of Florida, and the DEA crackdown of 2010 and onward. - Though it was the NY State crackdown on all pain meds, with the introduction of the "Mark of the Devil" IMHO - The UPC coded prescription forms. - It's even worse now with the HIPPA law which took away your freedoms to have access to the pain meds you want and need.
I finally decided/remembered that I was a drug addict. - Checked in to a clinic. Had heard about suboxone (this was pre-film to give you a time frame), and most said "avoid it at all costs" go with Methadone if you must go.
I protested, and asked for Methadone, but this hospital obviously had a deal with Reckitt Benckiser, probably got all their cleaning products they make along with the deal.
After day 3 of "waiting for a bed", I had twisted and turned and sweated and shitted my way through the worst of it. Although, a 4th night was coming, and a beautiful nurse practitioner had a long talk with me about suboxone. She explained to me that those who say not to take Suboxone, are usually just junkies that want to get high on their old drug, not those serious about getting clean.
That was a life changing moment. - I took the bait. - Was given Suboxone, gabapentin, and clonidine, and when I went to sleep that night, I felt like I was falling, but in a good way, I saw colors going by as I went down, down, down. Until I woke up the next morning, feeling like I was still fucked up from a night of heavy partying.
That falling was suboxone stealing my soul, and anything left of the sharpness of my central nervous system.
I was setup with a Dr when I got out who Rx'd suboxone, another lackey out for the payola from big pharma Reckitt Benckiser. I started to notice that I was acting retarded. I would take a pee, and forget to zip up. Like everyday !!!- I had two small children at the time. Sex drive was gone. I got what looked like Shingles, though I never had Chicken Pox. I noticed I had blurry vision and was told it would go away. I started getting tinnitus -ringing in my ears. As a part-time musician, this was like blindness to a painter artist. -- I decided I would wean off. - The Dr wanted me on for at least 8 months.
I said "NO" and went online looking for support. - Finally found the wean down to a crumb at a time way, and got there.
Permanent vision damage. After 45 years of 20-10 marksman-like vision I was always told, as my job required annual vision checkups. Now I was getting vision loss like a 55-60 year old. The tinnitus was maddening. The restless leg syndrome was torture. That shit fucked up my body but good.
I finally found a Pain Mgt Dr who worked with me, and gave me Oxy 15mg 4 pills a day, and said "By this time next year, I will have you off of all opiates" - I didn't want to hear that, but hell, a year of 4 15mg Oxy's a day? Better than nothing. - Well he was very focused on physical rehabilitation. I had to attend mandatory "stretching exercise" class, plus a piss test every month.
The following year, I was down to 3 pills a day. Next month 2, and I knew it was coming so I just stopped, went through my last opiate withdrawal (wasn't as bad as the Morphine cold turkey, or the long drawn out side effect and permanent damage of Suboxone) I even kept one pill in case of emergency and 1 week after my last pill, I took that pill and threw it in the river.
Bottom line? - Suboxone should be banned. Bringing back Quaaludes would make more sense. - Now for some reason my drug of choice is Adderall (amphetamine). When I'm without it, I do get depressed, but no side effects, diarrhea or RLS.
That is my opinion. I feel there are no benefits of Suboxone. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another shitty RC "Research Chemical".
Go on Youtube sometime and look for a blonde chick who documents her Suboxone "therapy". She looks pretty decent right before she starts Suboxone. Then day by day, her face loses it's youthful appearance. Her speech becomes very drone like. I had to stop watching after like week 3 or 4. - I didn't want to leave a comment, and ruin her "progress", because how do I know, if she wasn't saved by it?
Her next fix of dope could've been an OD, or tainted shit, or be in a drug deal ripoff, murder, what have you.
I'll leave it at that. - Sorry if I rambled and it was long. Nobody put a gun to your head to read this.
Still opiate-dependant free. I even finally got around to trying Heroin. Stupid move, I know, but once a month? Split a gram with a friend? - Recreationally ? No problem.
Touch Suboxone again? - You'd have to put a gun to MY head! I'll always have addiction in my blood, I'm just a little, NO, a LOT wiser from my 50+years of experience.
Peace
jagfug
I feel like this is exactly the kind of testimonial blade wanted. Thanks for warning him jag
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I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. Best of luck to you.
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I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. Best of luck to you.
So i didn't get a response yet in the other thread, i'm really eager to hear, have you tried GHB yet for sleep?
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This is long, so don't read it if you don't like long posts. - Remember, I warned you.
Still opiate-dependant free. I even finally got around to trying Heroin. Stupid move, I know, but once a month? Split a gram with a friend? - Recreationally ? No problem.
Touch Suboxone again? - You'd have to put a gun to MY head! I'll always have addiction in my blood, I'm just a little, NO, a LOT wiser from my 50+years of experience.
Peace
jagfug
I feel like this is exactly the kind of testimonial blade wanted. Thanks for warning him jag
Didn't want to quote the whole quote of my quote, but do I detect a hint of condescension there, or am I being paranoid?
You really feel that's exactly what he wanted/needed ??
It's hard to tell an innocent comment from sarcastic or condescending one when reading text. Could be because I'm old.
I'll tell you one thing, I'd never get away with that opinion on whatever support thread I used to go on when I was trying to kick suboxone.
I also realize that I didn't go into as much detail about the withdraw itself, but suffice it to say, the uncomfortability level, lasted longer threefold than morphine, and I had been on 4 60 mg MS Contins
a day for almost 4 years!!!
- I didn't read the other forum where you've seemed to flee from negativity. (Hope the trend continues)
Just to add my two cents in on sleep, and I"m sure it has been suggested before. - The amino acid Tryptophan taken occasionally has helped this drug addict get a good nights sleep.
Also, there used to be a supplement sold here in the States called GABA Plus. - Made by TwinLabs. Which was thought to hit the precise receptors that Valium does.
- my first really bad addiction was Valium, so I read up on why my body craved it and so forth, so I understand insomnia all too well.
Also look at what you do during an average day. Not sure of your age or physical limitations. Though usually you know the "no-no's" of insomniacs. - Sleeping too late on days off.
Taking long naps on any day-pretty much kills your brains desire for sleep.
Lack of physical activity. - all obvious, right?
Hope that was really helpful.
I felt a little "self centered" in my original post. - Though it was quite cathartic, so I thank you both for humoring me. ;)
Peace
jagfug
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This is long, so don't read it if you don't like long posts. - Remember, I warned you.
Still opiate-dependant free. I even finally got around to trying Heroin. Stupid move, I know, but once a month? Split a gram with a friend? - Recreationally ? No problem.
Touch Suboxone again? - You'd have to put a gun to MY head! I'll always have addiction in my blood, I'm just a little, NO, a LOT wiser from my 50+years of experience.
Peace
jagfug
I feel like this is exactly the kind of testimonial blade wanted. Thanks for warning him jag
Didn't want to quote the whole quote of my quote, but do I detect a hint of condescension there, or am I being paranoid?
You really feel that's exactly what he wanted/needed ??
It's hard to tell an innocent comment from sarcastic or condescending one when reading text. Could be because I'm old.
I'll tell you one thing, I'd never get away with that opinion on whatever support thread I used to go on when I was trying to kick suboxone.
I also realize that I didn't go into as much detail about the withdraw itself, but suffice it to say, the uncomfortability level, lasted longer threefold than morphine, and I had been on 4 60 mg MS Contins
a day for almost 4 years!!!
- I didn't read the other forum where you've seemed to flee from negativity. (Hope the trend continues)
Just to add my two cents in on sleep, and I"m sure it has been suggested before. - The amino acid Tryptophan taken occasionally has helped this drug addict get a good nights sleep.
Also, there used to be a supplement sold here in the States called GABA Plus. - Made by TwinLabs. Which was thought to hit the precise receptors that Valium does.
- my first really bad addiction was Valium, so I read up on why my body craved it and so forth, so I understand insomnia all too well.
Also look at what you do during an average day. Not sure of your age or physical limitations. Though usually you know the "no-no's" of insomniacs. - Sleeping too late on days off.
Taking long naps on any day-pretty much kills your brains desire for sleep.
Lack of physical activity. - all obvious, right?
Hope that was really helpful.
I felt a little "self centered" in my original post. - Though it was quite cathartic, so I thank you both for humoring me. ;)
Peace
jagfug
What i said was sincere. What you went through on that drug sounded absolutely horrible, thank you for warning him