Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: ikz on December 12, 2012, 04:21 am
-
Maybe I just abused the fuck out of them.. but now every time I trip I just feel like I used to be a disillusioned idiot when I thought they were helping me be more "spiritual"..
-
It is possible to experience a mystical state of consciousness with the use of LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline. It is a state of consciousness, characterised by a profound sense of objectivity and reality, in which all sensuous, conceptual, temporal, spatial, and empirical content is excluded, so that there remains nothing but an undifferentiated, distinctionless void of pure awareness, which is immediately recognised as a basic principle of existence. W.T. Stace, Pahnke, and other students of mysticism have distilled the following universal characteristics of mystical experience, free from culturally determined philosophical or theological interpretations:
- Cosmic Unity. This is termed by various religions the Godhead, the Absolute, the Brahman, the Void, the One, the Tao,the Ground of Being, Universal Consciousness, etc.
- Transcendence of space and time
- Objectivity or reality.
- Deeply-felt positive mood. Joy, blessedness, peace, etc.
- Feeling that what is apprehended is sacred or divine.
- Paradoxicality (e.g. it is nothing, but also the fullness of reality; it is creative, but also totally inactive).
- Ineffability.
- Loss of the illusion of controllership
Now your problem may have been your assumptions as to what a spiritual experience is. You may have been looking in the wrong direction. It is not a hallucination, nor an intellectual revelation, nor a visionary experience, nor a trance-like state of consciousness, nor a state of heightened emotionalism, nor an experience of supernatural or paranormal activity, nor an out of body experiences. It is a state of being, a state of pure witnessing. You can be propelled into this state with large dosages of psychedelics, or by lower dosages in combination with meditation.
Many people, I think use psychedelics to hallucinate, and confuse hallucinations with mystical experiences. But you won't experience cosmic consciousness if this is the direction you are looking in, no matter how many times you used psychedelic drugs.
-
Maybe I just abused the fuck out of them.. but now every time I trip I just feel like I used to be a disillusioned idiot when I thought they were helping me be more "spiritual"..
wow thought i was the only one.
The time when i started actually enjoying psychedelic was the time i realized i need to separate my spiritual ambitions from my chemical consumption.
but i know that's not the case for everyone...
-
It is possible to experience a mystical state of consciousness with the use of LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline. It is a state of consciousness, characterised by a profound sense of objectivity and reality, in which all sensuous, conceptual, temporal, spatial, and empirical content is excluded, so that there remains nothing but an undifferentiated, distinctionless void of pure awareness, which is immediately recognised as a basic principle of existence. W.T. Stace, Pahnke, and other students of mysticism have distilled the following universal characteristics of mystical experience, free from culturally determined philosophical or theological interpretations:
- Cosmic Unity. This is termed by various religions the Godhead, the Absolute, the Brahman, the Void, the One, the Tao,the Ground of Being, Universal Consciousness, etc.
- Transcendence of space and time
- Objectivity or reality.
- Deeply-felt positive mood. Joy, blessedness, peace, etc.
- Feeling that what is apprehended is sacred or divine.
- Paradoxicality (e.g. it is nothing, but also the fullness of reality; it is creative, but also totally inactive).
- Ineffability.
- Loss of the illusion of controllership
Now your problem may have been your assumptions as to what a spiritual experience is. You may have been looking in the wrong direction. It is not a hallucination, nor an intellectual revelation, nor a visionary experience, nor a trance-like state of consciousness, nor a state of heightened emotionalism, nor an experience of supernatural or paranormal activity, nor an out of body experiences. It is a state of being, a state of pure witnessing. You can be propelled into this state with large dosages of psychedelics, or by lower dosages in combination with meditation.
Many people, I think use psychedelics to hallucinate, and confuse hallucinations with mystical experiences. But you won't experience cosmic consciousness if this is the direction you are looking in, no matter how many times you used psychedelic drugs.
Would you believe me if I told you I've been able to attain a "cosmic consciousness" for almost a year and a half?
I had a few glimpses of it on shrooms and acid but.. it wasn't anything that stayed with me.
I actually think using psychedelics to get to the point of "cosmic consciousness" or whatever you want to call it is RIDICULOUS.
Why do you need to use a substance to get to somewhere that doesn't need the drugs in the first place?
Do you think all the sages were tripping on acid all the time? Or shrooms?
They did it without the help of any drugs.. and how do you even know what you're experiencing IS "cosmic consciousness"?
How do you know it isn't just all delusion and you're believing your own bullshit because if you looked the other way all of your experience would make you feel ridiculous?
-
Also, my problem with most people is that they say things like "i've experienced ego death many times.."
Your ego can't die. It's impossible.
What most people WANT is realizing that there is no self to control anything.. then the real magic happens. no psychedelic bullshit needed for that AND it stays with you. people who claim their "ego" has died more than once are just idiots who think taking that next 10 strip is going to solve their life problems.
-
i think the substance definitely matters. as said before lsd and psilocybin are good for it. phenethylamines in general lack the "one with the universe" aspect i get from indoles. i havent done mescaline so i cant speak on that. if anything maybe just take a break from use? nothing wrong with going a few months without tripping. its good to take from the experience, then integrate it. if your constantly dissolving your ego its not going to have the lasting effects like it normally would in my opinion.
-
Maybe I just abused the fuck out of them.. but now every time I trip I just feel like I used to be a disillusioned idiot when I thought they were helping me be more "spiritual"..
Ive had a similar experience with psychedelics, also thought they were helping me to be more spiritual, in some ways it did because it opened my mind to a certain extent, but nonetheless I can relate to what youre saying. Too much of anything is not good. Psychedelics should always be treated with respect and maybe youre just growing up. I also was a disillusioned idiot, but many of us are when we are young especially.
Sounds like youve come to the same realization about psychedelics as I have, I wish you the best, remember it's not the end of the world. Enjoy it for what it was.
-
what you need to do is rotate the crops, like what farmers do with their fields
if you do to much LSD and the spiritual yeild is beginin to yield, fire yourself up some DMT
do for a while, rotate the crops once more
thats the beauty of Silk Road, almost every halucinagenic drug known to man(I may be wrong Im no genious) is here for your enjoyment
that being said LSD has always been a big meany to my brain, most other halucinagens I enjoy
so mix it up, go for the exotic stuff youv never tried before
-
Would you believe me if I told you I've been able to attain a "cosmic consciousness" for almost a year and a half?
I had a few glimpses of it on shrooms and acid but.. it wasn't anything that stayed with me.
I actually think using psychedelics to get to the point of "cosmic consciousness" or whatever you want to call it is RIDICULOUS.
Why do you need to use a substance to get to somewhere that doesn't need the drugs in the first place?
Do you think all the sages were tripping on acid all the time? Or shrooms?
They did it without the help of any drugs.. and how do you even know what you're experiencing IS "cosmic consciousness"?
How do you know it isn't just all delusion and you're believing your own bullshit because if you looked the other way all of your experience would make you feel ridiculous?
Psychedelic drugs are useful aids in attaining states of consciousness which can be accessed without the use of drugs. Once you have experienced cosmic consciousness on LSD or mushrooms, it is much easier to access this state by disciplined meditation and concentration. If one is able to attain cosmic consciousness by an act of will, I don't think one needs to use psychedelic drugs for spiritual purposes, but these substances may still serve a useful role for other purposes.
As for the great mystics and sages of history, many of them had spontaneous mystical experiences which they were not afterwards able to replicate. Many others evoked mystical states of consciousness by methods which are very inefficient, such as fasting, self-inflicted pain, sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation, breath control, self-hypnosis, long hours of solitary prayer, etc. Like psychedelic drugs, these methods elicit biochemical changes and unlock the door to higher levels of consciousness. Unfortunately, these methods usually take years of practice and require the complete devotion of the individual, making social action impossible. They are also inefficient methods, similar to ingesting small dosages of psychedelics. I think it is better for a person to have a drug-facilitated experience of cosmic consciousness, instead of remaining withdrawn from the world until old age as a result of such ascetic practices.
As to how do I know that what I experienced is cosmic consciousness, cosmic consciousness is really unmistakeable once you have legitimately experienced it. There is the sense of complete unity with everything in the universe, transcendence of space and time, loss of the illusion of controllership, ineffability, parodoxicality, and the other characteristics I listed above. I have also studied mystical literature and I find myself going through states of consciousness which correspond precisely with every description of mystical experiences that I had ever read. I have also experienced cosmic consciousness long before I got into drugs, and I find that the state of consciousness I am able to attain with LSD is identical to my previous mystical experiences.
Also, my problem with most people is that they say things like "i've experienced ego death many times.."
Your ego can't die. It's impossible.
The word death in "ego death" is just a metaphor for transcendence. It could just as easily be called ego transcendence. The point is that the ego is no longer the whole, but is reduced to a part of a larger whole, the bodymind. It is not unusual for the individual, who hitherto saw the autonomous ego as the highest stage of unity, to become apprehensive about dying, to believe that he has already died, or that he now knows what death is going to be like. Hence 'death' is a valid metaphor. Ego death also paves the way for a kind of rebirth in which feelings of annihilation are followed by a sense of reunion with the ground of being. The whole death-rebirth struggle is a very common experience in psychedelic sessions (at least in higher dosages). That's why the word 'ego death' is used. I think it's a valid metaphor.
Anyway, I think you raise a good point. It is quite possible for some individuals never to have a spiritual experience on LSD or mushrooms. I never experienced anything spiritual on my first 40 or so acid trips. I think this is because I was looking in the wrong direction - I was confusing aesthetic and hallucinatory experiences with spirituality. Naturally, I got frustrated when I realised that these weren't real spiritual experiences, but mere illusions. I think there is a technique to evoking a mystical state of consciousness with LSD. This is why it is important to have a competent guide who has attained higher levels of consciousness with the drug. You should also take somewhere between 200 and 400 micograms, which is much higher than the common dosage.
-
if psychedelics are losing their magic, that probably means it's time for a break. doing them too often can definitely lessen the experience. you know what they say, too much of a good thing...
-
I commonly hear this from psychonauts who use the same substance too frequently.
If you've been doing acid for the last year, you need to switch it up and do Iboga or DMT, or 2C-E... do yoga, travel, meditate, learn about tantra, etc.
So many ways to evolve. Keep going.
-
Maybe I just abused the fuck out of them.. but now every time I trip I just feel like I used to be a disillusioned idiot when I thought they were helping me be more "spiritual"..
I don't want to sound offensive, but I totally agree with the statement about being a disillusioned idiot. I have been doing psychedelics for 10 years now and it was always just for fun,, lots of fun ;D. I never searched for anything spiritual in drugs, I think that's ridiculous. I rarely do drugs other than lsd, because I get bored on them, acid on the other hand never ceases to amaze me, but it's just a drug like mdma, coke or any other, no higher being involved :)
just my opinion :-X
-
Maybe I just abused the fuck out of them.. but now every time I trip I just feel like I used to be a disillusioned idiot when I thought they were helping me be more "spiritual"..
I don't want to sound offensive, but I totally agree with the statement about being a disillusioned idiot.
Sorry but this bugs the fuck outta me. Disillusionment is the state you've reached when you start thinking the beauty was all fake and stop seeing it. He didn't used to be a disillusioned idiot, he feels like he was a deluded idiot and he has now become disillusioned.
Oh, and by the way, EVERYTHING IS IN OUR HEADS. The beauty true acid heads perceive is as real as the bleakness you appear to live in from my perspective.
Wanna argue with me on that? Call me a deluded idiot? I really don't give a shit, because I live in a world of unimaginable beauty and splendor and you'd rather just shrug it all off as fake.
Maybe i misunderstood what he wrote, or I didn't express myself correctly. What I want to say is that anyone who thinks that drugs help them to grow spiritually/become closer to god are disillusioned. I don't need drugs to see beauty around me. I don't seek truth in drugs. I don't make important decisions regarding my life based on my experiences while on drugs. And I have many friends who like you disagree with me, that is why I started my post with I don't want to sound offensive
-
Maybe I just abused the fuck out of them.. but now every time I trip I just feel like I used to be a disillusioned idiot when I thought they were helping me be more "spiritual"..
I don't want to sound offensive, but I totally agree with the statement about being a disillusioned idiot.
Sorry but this bugs the fuck outta me. Disillusionment is the state you've reached when you start thinking the beauty was all fake and stop seeing it. He didn't used to be a disillusioned idiot, he feels like he was a deluded idiot and he has now become disillusioned.
Oh, and by the way, EVERYTHING IS IN OUR HEADS. The beauty true acid heads perceive is as real as the bleakness you appear to live in from my perspective.
Wanna argue with me on that? Call me a deluded idiot? I really don't give a shit, because I live in a world of unimaginable beauty and splendor and you'd rather just shrug it all off as fake.
Someone give typtap some karma, because I can't give any.
-
i wrote this after my first high dose psilocybin experience and just reread it the other day. it definitely brought me back to some profound insights.
a misunderstanding of a misunderstanding
look at yourself, look at this landing
what is existence?what is illusion?
i hold the answer to all life, the conclusion
infinite was created to explain the unexplainable.
insecurity builds this "reality" around us, interchangeable
reality to you, is vastly personal.
its all a projection of your soul, seemingly worthless
the world has become, life it self, a vehicle
man-made language, the fuel. science, the tool-that
creates the road, or boundary we follow
go off road, i know its hard to swallow.
but once you can unlock the god inside of you.
and realize everything in existence, IS YOU
you can be one, you can be all
there isnt such a thing as a "rise or a fall"
human communication as of now is all
to all of those who are blind
caught up in someone elses bind, BLIND!
to what the fuck we really have in our grasp
society, ONE BIG MASK
infinity, START TO ASK
trace any item your eyes are creating, over and over
you may soon come to realize that all is infinite that we create
never an end or beginning, grab your ego, start to deflate
your soul is infinite, nowhere to start, nowhere to finish
please grab ahold of yourself, ahold of your mind,
WHAT THE FUCK IS IN IT?
nothing, yet everything.
infinity is my answer to life, we are eternal
the human mind is endless, but (words) are the end OF this.
there will never again come a reason, that i need this pitiful, linguistic hell
evil itself, inside of this shell
much like darkness, or the embodiment of "hidden"
my light they try to dim, so i toss them under the lid, in
my mind, my soul, my spirit, my consciousness
infinite, everlasting-a constant loop, life-is-this.
the urge to become everything, a real thing indeed
your entire existence is thought, which thought will you feed?
i think you will learn something from psychedelics if you WANT to learn something, personally.
-
I don't need drugs to see beauty around me either. I don't seek truth "in" drugs but in reality -through- drugs. They're a tool, like meditation. I make plenty of important decisions based on experiences while on drugs, since it's all life experience anyway and I don't lose my head.
Good for you man.
And english is not my first language but I'm sure you understood what i wanted to say. If not I can try again :D
-
Maybe I just abused the fuck out of them.. but now every time I trip I just feel like I used to be a disillusioned idiot when I thought they were helping me be more "spiritual"..
I don't want to sound offensive, but I totally agree with the statement about being a disillusioned idiot.
Sorry but this bugs the fuck outta me. Disillusionment is the state you've reached when you start thinking the beauty was all fake and stop seeing it. He didn't used to be a disillusioned idiot, he feels like he was a deluded idiot and he has now become disillusioned.
Oh, and by the way, EVERYTHING IS IN OUR HEADS. The beauty true acid heads perceive is as real as the bleakness you appear to live in from my perspective.
Wanna argue with me on that? Call me a deluded idiot? I really don't give a shit, because I live in a world of unimaginable beauty and splendor and you'd rather just shrug it all off as fake.
"fuck you dude, i'm so much more enlightened than you, i've seen it all on acid man, you have to go back and learn more.. i see more beauty than you do, shut up, SHUT UP"
yeah maybe one day you'll wake up and realize you aren't enlightened at all and no amount of psychedelics will ever help you achieve nirvana.
just saying broseph. i know a little thing or two about life. i really hate the word but i am "enlightened" in every sense. it's more like liberated if anything. it happened without psychedelics.. but i did do a lot of psychedelics before it happened and through further experimentation i've come to the realization that i DON'T need to keep taking psychedelics to come closer to some higher power
you know, i love fear and loathing, the end monologue is PERFECT for people like you
"We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled the 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel." -- Raoul Duke
yes, you are completly correct, everything is in our heads.. but when you're on something like a psychedelic you can EASILY start believing in something by only a "feeling" you got during that trip without any actual evidence
you shouldn't believe anything without evidence..
do you have good evidence to believe you even exist?
from what i've read from your previous posts.. you sound like you just got ticked off that i said that psychedelics aren't as special as you think they are. do you really need to get mad?
you sound mad
lol mad
this enlightened guy is getting mad over a message board..
also, to all the other people saying "you just need to switch it up a bit and take other psychedelics"
that's where i say, sorry, you just want to keep getting fucked up you aren't trying to better yourselves.
-
Troll or not, but he's got a point. LSD (or any other drug) is not a tool for enlightenment.
-
i dont get why people have to say that just because they didnt get anything spiritually out of an lsd trip, its not spiritual. several people go to church and jjust get bored as fuck am i right? it takes the mindset.... you should watch the youtube video "children on lsd" he talks about it being one of the most important experiences a person could have. more important than reading the bible. and this is from a CHILD. the innocence of a child speaks truth in my opinion =P
im going to add this in here as a great example of a man who took lsd and had cosmic revelations because of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5hW6Dm_m5t4
-
i dont get why people have to say that just because they didnt get anything spiritually out of an lsd trip, its not spiritual.
Deep, innate jealousy or envy. "I'm not experiencing all this beauty, and if I'm not they can't be either so it must be fake."
XD I feel like I live on the forum, guys, I'm on here posting so damn much.
Do.. you really think we are jealous and envious of you?
A person who truly was enlightened in any sense wouldn't go around spouting that everyone else is jealous of them.. they wouldn't even tell anyone they were enlightened.. you're a fool.
-
i dont get why people have to say that just because they didnt get anything spiritually out of an lsd trip, its not spiritual. several people go to church and jjust get bored as fuck am i right? it takes the mindset.... you should watch the youtube video "children on lsd" he talks about it being one of the most important experiences a person could have. more important than reading the bible. and this is from a CHILD. the innocence of a child speaks truth in my opinion =P
im going to add this in here as a great example of a man who took lsd and had cosmic revelations because of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5hW6Dm_m5t4
yes.. leave it to a child with an underdeveloped mind to tell you the truth about psychedelics..
-
I think that everyone before using any psychedelics should learn and read a lot about it... Knowledge it's most important imo... When we r confident about it I can't imagine bad trip... Stanislav Grof, Timothy Leary, Albert Hofmann, Sasha Shulgin it's basic... We need to be well prepared before trippin'... Much love bros,
acidsoldier
-
"I just spout all the insights and inspirations I have in an effort to share the love I have for the universe."
no, a person who has "love for the universe" wouldn't need to be telling people who oppose their views how jealous they are because they don't agree with you...
look in the mirror my friend.. maybe you need a break from acid for a week to see what's really there.
-
"
Wanna argue with me on that? Call me a deluded idiot? I really don't give a shit, because I live in a world of unimaginable beauty and splendor and you'd rather just shrug it all off as fake."
yeah man.. the love is pouring out of you deeply.. i can see it right now..
"I did say that acid is a tool of enlightenment, but I honestly have a ways to go. You don't even see the path to walk down because you've turned yourself off to it."
why do you assume such things that i'm not walking down the path of enlightenment because i don't need to use psychedelics to get there anymore?
don't need to believe me but i've been "enlightened", "liberated", "free", whatever you want to call it for 1.5 years now
it really isn't what you think it is
and what you think is "the road to enlightenment" is nothing more than you escaping reality to get fucked up on the daily
you ain't doing yourself a favor kid. you sound arrogant as hell and i bet you don't know the first thing about spiritualism. acid heads are deluded. i've done plenty of acid my friend. i've had those "unifying" experiences''
they are cool, neat, but they don't last
sobriety is the real path to enlightenment
trust
-
if you think that sobriety is the path to enlightenment, why are you spending your time on a site like sr?
-
In response to OP (I skipped over the bickering) the same thing happened to me after I started using psychedelics. When I first tripped on acid, I saw the beautiy in every little thing that I took for granted my whole life, I felt like I could see the would through a child's eyes. After I sobered up, the way I felt (enlightened/one with existance/whatever) seemed like a dream that I could only recall glimpses of. I took lots of psychedelics, hoping to "figure out" why they made me feel like that, so I wouldn't lose the feeling when the drugs ran their course - needless to say it didn't work. Now I have come to terms with the fact that drugs are only a tool to explore the depths of conciousness - they can't show you any "truth" that you aren't capable of finding on your own, but they can make it a little easier if you use them productively. Learn to appreciate the little things when you are sober, learn about philosopy, read books (good ones, full of knowledge), find your true self - drugs can help you to understand reality, but they are only 1 tool amoung many, don't rely on them too much - at least don't expect all the answers from them.
tl;dr taking psychedelics lets you see things without all the preconeptions that society pounds into our brains - you can learn to see with open eyes without being on them (though you won't be giggling as much) Don't take drugs too seriously, but don't take them for granted either.
Regarding this topic I would sugest reading a book called BE HERE NOW, by Ram Dass aka Prof. Richard Alpert
-
My immediate intuition is that you aren't doing high doses sparingly. 75mg of DMT through a freebase vaporizer will most likely put you into contact with the "Other" or "others".
There are so many factors that go into the outcome of a psychedelic experience that have nothing to do with the potential of the substance.
1) What is the exact substance/species and any information about its purity?
2) Size of dose.
3) Method of ingestion.
4) How often?
5) Any other substances in the mix?
6) Environment.
7) Mental/emotional/physical state before the trip.
8) Attitude and expectations for the trip.
And a couple of qualitative points:
1) The substance cannot show you what you are not ready to see nor teach you what you are not ready to learn.
2) Observe and value the relationship you have with the substance. Try communicating with it if there is something wrong.
-
i dont get why people have to say that just because they didnt get anything spiritually out of an lsd trip
I know what people mean when they talk about psychedelics and spiritual experience on them. I just call the same thing a hallucination caused by a hallucinogenic drug.
several people go to church and jjust get bored as fuck am i right?
Absolutely. This is like an argument between atheists and religious people, pointless
-
I know what people mean when they talk about psychedelics and spiritual experience on them. I just call the same thing a hallucination caused by a hallucinogenic drug.
Hallucinations are not the spiritual component of an LSD trip. This is a common misconception of people who have never taken psychedelics, or have only taken enough to experience hallucinatory and aesthetic phenomena. The spiritual element of an acid trip is cosmic consciousness, which is not a sensory or a hallucinatory experience.
-
what you need to do is rotate the crops, like what farmers do with their fields
if you do to much LSD and the spiritual yeild is beginin to yield, fire yourself up some DMT
do for a while, rotate the crops once more
thats the beauty of Silk Road, almost every halucinagenic drug known to man(I may be wrong Im no genious) is here for your enjoyment
that being said LSD has always been a big meany to my brain, most other halucinagens I enjoy
so mix it up, go for the exotic stuff youv never tried before
Precisely, use a window. MDMA then maybe some benzos....
-
We got some real psychonauts in this thread. :)
-
I know what people mean when they talk about psychedelics and spiritual experience on them. I just call the same thing a hallucination caused by a hallucinogenic drug.
Hallucinations are not the spiritual component of an LSD trip. This is a common misconception of people who have never taken psychedelics, or have only taken enough to experience hallucinatory and aesthetic phenomena. The spiritual element of an acid trip is cosmic consciousness, which is not a sensory or a hallucinatory experience.
Well i have taken shitloads of them in relatively high doses, mostly lsd and dmt. And I got little carried away with dmt when I first found out how easy it is to extract it. I don't think that it is because of the lack of experience with psychedelics.
And like someone said in this thread, some people take drugs too seriously... Maybe it is to ease the guilt and justify doing them by involving divine powers :) I don't know
P.S. And by hallucination I didn't mean only visuals, but the altered state of consciousness
-
I know what people mean when they talk about psychedelics and spiritual experience on them. I just call the same thing a hallucination caused by a hallucinogenic drug.
Hallucinations are not the spiritual component of an LSD trip. This is a common misconception of people who have never taken psychedelics, or have only taken enough to experience hallucinatory and aesthetic phenomena. The spiritual element of an acid trip is cosmic consciousness, which is not a sensory or a hallucinatory experience.
Well i have taken shitloads of them in relatively high doses, mostly lsd and dmt. And I got little carried away with dmt when I first found out how easy it is to extract it. I don't think that it is because of the lack of experience with psychedelics.
And like someone said in this thread, some people take drugs too seriously... Maybe it is to ease the guilt and justify doing them by involving divine powers :) I don't know
P.S. And by hallucination I didn't mean only visuals, but the altered state of consciousness
That altered state isn't hallucination you asshat. =P
I don't involve divine powers I invoke pure consciousness.
got me on wording again :D
-
got me on wording again :D
Life itself, thought, is the only "justification" I need to drop acid and see what I can learn by actively exploring.
Good point. I drop acid to have a good time, and it's been good to me so far :) This why I love lsd, it gives you whatever you want from it
-
valid arguments, both sides
glad to see some smiles at the end..
was beginning to sweat because of how insecure i am of my own subjective perceptions..
under the influence or not
my two cents on my small journey:
there's beauty to be found in un-beauty (thusly, in emptiness) and also in beauty in its most bountiful perceived quantities....
-
This why I love lsd, it gives you whatever you want from it
Yep, including nothing useful if that's all you expect.
Beats the illusion of enlightenment.
Sorry, but couldn't resist ;D
-
The more psychedelics I take, the less I feel the need to take more. My original goal in using them was as a tool to be the person I wanted to be, and they've been accomplishing that better than I had hoped so I've noticed it's been getting longer and longer in between trips which is alright with me. :D They've taught me quite a lot about myself and I'm able to have a good time regardless of if I'm high or not, only now I'm able to get high regardless of the situation and still be myself. Hell, if I'm able to trip on shrooms at work and actually have my employers congratulate me on doing a great job I think I'm doing something right with them. The reason I bring that up is because I really believe that the experience is what you make of it, try to do something different with your time under the influence like learning a language or reading a book on consciousness or philosophy. I know for my next trip on LSD I'm going to sit down and read my Dr Seuss collection to see how they've effected my life since reading them as a child and meditate on it afterwards outside in my garden smoking weed, I'm sure it'll be really pleasant. :) Do you have some grandparents alive? If so I highly recommend that you take some MDMA and stop by their place to catch up, ask them about their life and compare how much you can relate or how many differences they had growing up compared to what it was like growing up for you. Just keep moving forward and focus on living in the moment when you ever doubt yourself.
-
look at people who take shitloads of psychedelics like Tim Leary and John Lily. Then come back with me and take it with pain. Hence the psychedelics.
-
Why do you need to use a substance to get to somewhere that doesn't need the drugs in the first place?
If you can successfully 3-hit a 75mg dose of DMT you will go places no human has ever seen or ever will. Remember we're talking about something that is active in the pineal gland, exists in a countless unknown amount of plants in almost every ecosystem on Earth, and has been used as a slow-release hybrid in the Amazon longer than indigenous memory can recall.
2 points:
1) DMT is not a "substance" or "drug" any more than isolated serotonin, melatonin, dopamine, etc.
2) Before the 20th century it wasn't ever possible to hit the brain with a lot of DMT at once, so this idea that "wise men of the past didn't need drugs to become enlightened" is like saying "the cavemen didn't need a spaceship to go to the moon". Not only is DMT the space shuttle, but it takes one to places that were previously not attainable.
-
DMT is interesting from a scientific point of view, but I think the mental pyrotechnics of DMT are sensory, aesthetic, linguistic, and cognitive, not transcendental or spiritual. English mystic Alan Watts tried DMT, and considered it "amusing but relatively uninteresting". I agree with the amusing part, but I still think it's highly interesting, but the interest is more akin to the interest of space exploration than that of mysticism, in my humble opinion. It's an amazing experience but quite distinct from a mystical state of consciousness. Enlightenment comes with cosmic unity; as Watts liked to say, the unity is "that than which there's no whicher". You can't get any "higher" than that. LSD, mescaline, and mushrooms seem to be the most effective methods of evoking this state of consciousness, while DMT seems to me to be more of a roller coaster ride.
I could be wrong about DMT. That's my impression based on only a handful of experiences with the drug, and the descriptions of it given by Terence McKenna.
-
DMT is interesting from a scientific point of view, but I think the mental pyrotechnics of DMT are sensory, aesthetic, linguistic, and cognitive, not transcendental or spiritual. English mystic Alan Watts tried DMT, and considered it "amusing but relatively uninteresting". I agree with the amusing part, but I still think it's highly interesting, but the interest is more akin to the interest of space exploration than that of mysticism, in my humble opinion. It's an amazing experience but quite distinct from a mystical state of consciousness. Enlightenment comes with cosmic unity; as Watts liked to say, the unity is "that than which there's no whicher". You can't get any "higher" than that. LSD, mescaline, and mushrooms seem to be the most effective methods of evoking this state of consciousness, while DMT seems to me to be more of a roller coaster ride.
I could be wrong about DMT. That's my impression based on only a handful of experiences with the drug, and the descriptions of it given by Terence McKenna.
Great post.
A couple points:
1) I think we'd agree that DMT almost needs its own category. It doesn't touch mental acuity, as it is more of an "event".
2) If DMT isn't mystical, then I think we need to check our definitions.
3) While during the event, DMT doesn't facilitate spiritual insight, but my self-reflections afterward greatly impact other spiritual avenues available to me.
And, I love Alan Watts... but I believe his essence as an entertainer of Eastern spirituality sort of behooves him to dismiss psychedelia.
-
I think is all about the user. LSD helps me think about things or problems under a different perspective, under a different light. But you never stop being you, all you feel and see is something you had inside you all the time, is like it helps you tap into your subconscious. You are not going to experience things you didn't have in the beginning.