Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: fuckingACE on November 29, 2012, 08:56 pm
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I smoke an e-cig because I am trying to quit smoking.
The one that I use is made up of 3 parts, A battery, an atomizer and a cartridge that I fill up with a mixture of pure nicotine, Propylene Glycol or Glycerine, and flavoring. Generally the concentrates they sell for making hard candy! yum, I love my Apple and coke flavored mix.
Anyway I have grown to love vaping as its called, its like having your own shisha with you all the time, you can switch flavours when you want and you get thick lush yummy smoke out of it that satisfies your craving and dosent kill you. The liquid is wicked from the reservoir to the atomizer via a small wick this is why the substance must dissolve and not form a precipitate.
Right the resevior that I fill up is about the size of a AAA battery. I guess I could fit around 2CC´s of P.G or Glycerine in there. Since you are allowed to smoke this on planes, trains, restaurants, work etc.. legally. I was thinking of making it interesting.
I am looking for any drugs that will stay in solution / dissolve into P.G or glycerine and that are not denatured by the heat that the atomiser gets to in order to create the vapour... I have put one drop of water with methamphetamine dissolved directly on the atomizer and had a puff and it was like a very strong pipe hit.
I ask this with the view of perhaps selling e-cigarette bundles on SR with pre-filled cartridges made to order with your drug and flavour of choice :D Just imagine being able to sit on a plane and slyly take a puff of your electronic cigarette filled with DMT, you could trip away with your eyes closed and no one would be the wiser. or puff away on methamphetamine at work, your employers would just think you are quitting smoking!
Right, so any suggestions / comments would be welcome
ACE
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this actually sounds like a awesome idea! if you could do this with dmt, i would definitely buy one!
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Yeah, this concept is nothing new, but wouldn't be a bad start-up idea for vending on the road. If I'm not mistaken I have seen THC e-liquid listed quite frequently.
Most (not all) drugs that are soluble in water will be soluble in propylene glycol or glycerol. You could always try adding a little bit of water to the PG / glycerol and see if the stuff dissolves while the mix is still able to be atomized.
Determining whether a substance is soluble in a given solvent is half intuition and chemistry knowledge, half just testing a small amount and seeing if it works. Assuming, of course, you can't find solubility data somewhere else.
Whether or not something is soluble in a given solvent depends on how similar it's polarity is to the solvent you are trying to dissolve the compound in. Polar dissolves polar, nonpolar dissolves nonpolar, but polar doesn't dissolve nonpolar and nonpolar can't dissolve polar. Get the idea?
Compounds made up of all carbons (not including the hydrogens) are very nonpolar. For example, hexane.
However, nitrogen, oxygen, and halogens "pull" on the electrons in a compound, causing a the molecule to be somewhat polar. The fewer the number of atoms that can distribute this 'pull', the stronger the polarity. For example, water has no carbons to distribute the pull of the oxygen on the electrons, and is a highly polar molecule, as the oxygen molecule "soaks up" the electron density, leaving the oxygen to have a partial negative charge and the hydrogens to have a partial positive charge.
Diethyl ether has a decent number of carbons to distribute the charge of the oxygen (and it's symmetrical, but I'm not going to get into that), therefore it is largely non-polar. (however, still minutely polar, even though it is not soluble in water)
Propylene glycol and glycerol are both somewhere in between.
You can use common judegement from this to narrow down your search.
Bear in mind that most drugs are salted, and do not exist in their freebase form. Any salted drug is going to be polar, even if its freebase form looks largely non-polar.
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Yeah, this concept is nothing new, but wouldn't be a bad start-up idea for vending on the road. If I'm not mistaken I have seen THC e-liquid listed quite frequently.
Most (not all) drugs that are soluble in water will be soluble in propylene glycol or glycerol. You could always try adding a little bit of water to the PG / glycerol and see if the stuff dissolves while the mix is still able to be atomized.
Determining whether a substance is soluble in a given solvent is half intuition and chemistry knowledge, half just testing a small amount and seeing if it works. Assuming, of course, you can't find solubility data somewhere else.
Whether or not something is soluble in a given solvent depends on how similar it's polarity is to the solvent you are trying to dissolve the compound in. Polar dissolves polar, nonpolar dissolves nonpolar, but polar doesn't dissolve nonpolar and nonpolar can't dissolve polar. Get the idea?
Compounds made up of all carbons (not including the hydrogens) are very nonpolar. For example, hexane.
However, nitrogen, oxygen, and halogens "pull" on the electrons in a compound, causing a the molecule to be somewhat polar. The fewer the number of atoms that can distribute this 'pull', the stronger the polarity. For example, water has no carbons to distribute the pull of the oxygen on the electrons, and is a highly polar molecule, as the oxygen molecule "soaks up" the electron density, leaving the oxygen to have a partial negative charge and the hydrogens to have a partial positive charge.
Diethyl ether has a decent number of carbons to distribute the charge of the oxygen (and it's symmetrical, but I'm not going to get into that), therefore it is largely non-polar. (however, still minutely polar, even though it is not soluble in water)
Propylene glycol and glycerol are both somewhere in between.
You can use common judegement from this to narrow down your search.
Bear in mind that most drugs are salted, and do not exist in their freebase form. Any salted drug is going to be polar, even if its freebase form looks largely non-polar.
Ok from 3 hours of google searches I can assume that I will get at least some form of success with dissolving the following in PG!
Methamphatamine
DMT. 5meo-DMT etc...
THC
cocaine but NOT freebase crack
If this is true then I recon this is a fucking good Idea... I´m gonna work through the list in that order. Just ordered some meth and DMT, I will trial this when it arrives and keep you posted.
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I suppose you can use this with a wide range of substances, since you are not bound by water/PEG as the solvent at all - the PEG produces the smoke-like effect, but does not add anything to the delivery system as such. If you wanted to use more polar drugs you could use ethanol instead of water as the solvent, provided the e-cig doenst set fire to it (there are different designs, some less safe than others).
THC should certainly be a prime candidate as it isn't hard to dissolve and will survive the heating process in the e-cig very well. Things like cocaine sound feasible as well.
As for taking it on airplanes: You probably should not do that, especially when they use drug-sniffing dogs at airports. Those will probably pick out the scent of your e-cig contraption. Also, many airlines actually do not allow using e-cigs in flight, although you could always use on in the loo - the little bit of vapour from them will not trigger smoke alarms. This shouldn't be a problem even in the lavatory fire alarm triggers, since its quite clear that there is no fire there. Carrying illicit substances on flights is a problem, however.
Tablets generally aren't a problem since you can simply stick them in a nondescript bottle, but things like powders or liquids are to be avoided.
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The issue with using ethanol for example is the consistency, It must be thick enough not to bypass the atomizer chamber through the pin sized air hole so it must be somewhat thick like glucose / PG, perhaps something could be added to the ethanol/cocaine solution to make it thicker-
Also part of the attraction of the e-cig is that lush thick smoke. I would like to find a way to conserve it.
Another factor to take into account is the residue left behind after vapourisation, PEG and PG and G do not leave residue, thus the atomiser does not clog up.
ACE
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This is a wonderful idea. It'd be cool if this could be done with opiates as well! If someone on SR could market a wide variety of e-cig liquid laced with different drugs I think it would be a wonderful way of really increasing stealth-smoking ability. Ideally one vendor supplying THC, Heroin, Meth, MDMA, etc., etc. liquids all in one place with different strengths and such. I know I'd definitely be a customer for multiple different 'blends'.
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D-Limonene? what do you require(health wise, boiling point etc)
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Isn't propylene glycol truly poisonous?
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As for taking it on airplanes: You probably should not do that, especially when they use drug-sniffing dogs at airports. Those will probably pick out the scent of your e-cig contraption. Also, many airlines actually do not allow using e-cigs in flight, although you could always use on in the loo - the little bit of vapour from them will not trigger smoke alarms. This shouldn't be a problem even in the lavatory fire alarm triggers, since its quite clear that there is no fire there. Carrying illicit substances on flights is a problem, however.
Tablets generally aren't a problem since you can simply stick them in a nondescript bottle, but things like powders or liquids are to be avoided.
Who knows it it's a good idea or not(probably not) but I did meet a guy that smoked an e-cigarette with a thc cartridge on an airplane. I was pretty shocked, because it definitely had the unmistakable smell of weed. Wild shit.
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If it smells like pot to the human nose, i'm sure a drug sniffing dog would find it even when it's not being used.
But there are obviously other applications for this than flights, like ordinariy at-home use to inhale something that would require to be smoked otherwise.
As for PEG being poisonous: it surely is if you gulp it down like water, but that is not the case here - the dose makes the poison. Smoke machines used in disco's and such use PEG too, and can fill up a room with a thick smoke that is blinding enough to limit vision to 1 metre or so. Inhaling that has not been proven to be very dangerous at all, though some people seem more tolerant of it than others. The amounts used in electronic cigarettes are usually very small - perhaps a few ml for the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes in case of nicotine.
I suppose this could be a technology that can allow people to use cocaine without snorting it, not wasting lots of it trying to smoke it.