Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 02:07 pm

Title: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 02:07 pm
Say 1 to 3 Bitcoins to stop the rapid growth. No visual access until payment completes. BTC,s go into a 'trust' for various
projects, scam refunds etc. Will bring a more serious buyer, stop the kids, prevent unlimited growth etc etc.
Just for new buyers - and now maybe the time to do it before it comes back online (might delay the reinstatement, sorry!)
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: impergat0r on November 11, 2012, 02:13 pm
I like the idea.

Let's say 2 BTC, ~20 Dollars. That's okay for someone who wants to seriously buy stuff here on a regular basis, but too expensive who just wants to scam.

And it would help with the extreme growth of SR members.
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: monster1188 on November 11, 2012, 02:14 pm
Okay,
So let's see you want buyers to pay about $11 to be on a underground site? I know you think that would be a great idea, but it really wouldn't. If someone was to scam they would likely pay this fee and continue on their business, nothing stopping them(most scammers are going after bulk in an order, so $100+ usually). Plus this site has been great since a buddy of mine has been on it without it, so why would we need it. Sellers now possess a tracking number to their orders, and that is all that is needed to provide proof in a case. I know you want brownie points for coming up with something like this, but it just won't happen.
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 02:20 pm
No 'brownie points' required thanks! The idea is already there for vendors - & it was put there to stop scam sellers. A 'lite' version of this would work, in my opinion, & stop underage snoopers setting up a simple free account to see what the big boys do with their time. It's not ideal, granted, but do you have a better idea

PS. I sell & buy on SR. I offer a sign for service & 90% of my buyers do not go for it - it can put them at risk. I never choose a sign for service as a buyer either Oh as for the bulk comment - great idea - bingo. How about a new buyer limit until say 10 or so buys? Good thinking!
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: monster1188 on November 11, 2012, 02:31 pm
No 'brownie points' required thanks! The idea is already there for vendors - & it was put there to stop scam sellers. A 'lite' version of this would work, in my opinion, & stop underage snoopers setting up a simple free account to see what the big boys do with their time. It's not ideal, granted, but do you have a better idea?
The point of an underground site based on Tor is to not know who anyone is, and trying to eliminate a certain cluster of people would not work. Drugs are drugs, and money is money. If someone wants the drugs bad enough they will pay what is wanted, and the same goes for the dealer, if they want the drugs the age doesn't matter. Now what could be done is you have buyer accounts almost like another site I am from known as Hackforums. They have something known as L33t and it seems to work pretty effectively. They pay about $25 and earn the perks such as a special badge, access to special forums, and more respect. On the forums special offers are posted, and I think sellers could use this forum to offer samples for honest reviews from these "higher ups". I think knowing that this is a underground site that before they can be a part of this group they need to be here for 1-3 months, and have less than a 2% refund rate.
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Dankbank1 on November 11, 2012, 02:38 pm
Nah I dont like the idea. They already stopped new registrations so that will bring growth to a hault. You cannot tax the lower class citizens (buyers) or for me personally will make me not want to spend money on here.
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 02:41 pm
But the 'cluster' would be kids & it should stop the growth which has caused this outage in the first place & lost a lot of us money. Paying a fee would not reveal the ID of the new buyer - just filter out the chancers. It was needed for vendors - ask DPR - it was his decision. Now I feel the time has come for new buyers. Just my opinion but I'm putting this direct to DPR for his thoughts. Maybe it will be part of the new version, who knows?
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 02:55 pm
Nah I dont like the idea. They already stopped new registrations so that will bring growth to a hault. You cannot tax the lower class citizens (buyers) or for me personally will make me not want to spend money on here.

It's not a 'tax'. Maybe they get the funds back after they prove their ability as a buyer. This is why I put it out there - thoughts & stuff! Feel free to punt in with other ideas. At the moment there's no SR due to this growth & no other ideas apart from a lock on new buyers which is far from perfect.
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Dankbank1 on November 11, 2012, 03:08 pm
I understand where you come from if it's a one time fee just to sign up. This would prolly get rid of non buyers and lurkers/LE possibly. If it's a one time only fee than yea understandable but if it were for every transaction then no. Simply because think of all the other fees we have to pay just to get BTC alone, then vendors jack shipping costs understandably but still. So its like fees here, fees there, fees everywhere. Idk maybe if they come up with a refined idea I'd be for it. I like where this is going +1 for the idea
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 03:21 pm
I understand where you come from if it's a one time fee just to sign up. This would prolly get rid of non buyers and lurkers/LE possibly. If it's a one time only fee than yea understandable but if it were for every transaction then no. Simply because think of all the other fees we have to pay just to get BTC alone, then vendors jack shipping costs understandably but still. So its like fees here, fees there, fees everywhere. Idk maybe if they come up with a refined idea I'd be for it. I like where this is going +1 for the idea

Yeah of course just a one time fee, not every time - wow it that were the case I'd pull out myself !! I,m thinking this not for SR,s profit - they make enough by vendor fees. This is a 'trust' idea - a trust fund of BTC,s which will assist financing scams & have the same result as you stated of offputting lurkers, media, LE, kids etc. There's bigger brains than mine out there - it's an idea which I got from being a vendor as I have to pay to be one. And SR vendors pay a fair bit to be there. Unlike BMR who only charge 1 BTC for a level 2 seller account - this explains its bad rep & many minus feedback vendor accounts. It's not brain surgery, lol.
Title: Re: SR Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: seraphim87 on November 11, 2012, 03:35 pm
I hate to cite reddit, but maybe we can have both.

in order to keep costs down, amongst advertising, which I suppose we can't do, (or can, maybe, for vendors? i dunno) a person can buy reddit gold/premium features. it gives them a few extra barebones features and more importantly, their accounts are given priority on the server level.

so, if you pay say a lil BTC, you get silkroad to run better for you, and it especially performs noticeably better when the crew needs to slow down connections for maintenance. this way, you get money for updates, get better service overall for everyone, people still have incentive to pay if say they think that they're so important they have to have service *now*, and people can't complain as much, because obviously, you get what you pay for.

seems straightforward enough. I know i'd pay for it for the sake of the community.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: TheGoodSon on November 11, 2012, 04:42 pm
This is a terrible idea...

Charging admission to a place like this will level the playing field and will cause many more sites like SR to crop up.

Charging admission will not stop any scammer

Charging admission will only hurt vendors

Charging admission is a short term solution and will not fix any bandwidth problems.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: USAShroomzz on November 11, 2012, 04:44 pm
I really like the idea of charging for buyer accounts.  The extra money could be used to bring down SR commission a percent point and save money for everyone. 

Also, if you are being scammed on SR you are a dumbass that would get scammed just as bad on the street.  Everyone knows to buy from trusted vendors and it is impossible for a buyer to scam a vendor as long as everything is done in the SR system and DCN numbers are used.  So the whole scammer argument is invalid.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: USAShroomzz on November 11, 2012, 04:49 pm
This is a terrible idea...

Charging admission to a place like this will level the playing field and will cause many more sites like SR to crop up.

Charging admission will not stop any scammer

Charging admission will only hurt vendors

Charging admission is a short term solution and will not fix any bandwidth problems.

Excellent, more SR sites need to pop up.

Scamming is a non issue if you work inside the SR system

Vendors will get more business because more real buyers will be logged on and not kids browsing, etc

In Long term there will less server load on logging in, making accounts, etc that can be used for browsing and other data
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: scene on November 11, 2012, 04:55 pm
How about a light front-end that you can *just* browse, that will front most of the page views/reloads, and then have a more dedicated site where you need to pay a fee to become a buyer and where you do the actual transactions. That keeps the website is accessible to everybody.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 04:58 pm
This is a terrible idea...

Charging admission to a place like this will level the playing field and will cause many more sites like SR to crop up.

Charging admission will not stop any scammer

Charging admission will only hurt vendors

Charging admission is a short term solution and will not fix any bandwidth problems.

OK. 'Terrible idea' - a bit OTT, maybe? It's just an idea but no more 'terrible' than the vendor charge (which is a great idea)!

Charging admission to a place like this will level the playing field and will cause many more sites like SR to crop up: No, SR is too well established for buyers to risk their BTC,s on an unknown start up site. It'll add kudos & exclusivity to Silk Road.


Charging admission will only hurt vendors: No They will keep their existing customer base - this is only for new buyers. Outage's hurt, not charges. (how much are you earning at this moment?) And if it were the case that SR starts to lose out then the fee could be simply removed. This is far better than the existing no sign up situation would you not agree?

Charging admission is a short term solution and will not fix any bandwidth problems: It will fix bandwidth issues by removing lurkers & suchlike It'll also have the same PR advantage as the removal of The Armory as those nasty pics (parent's, politician speak) would not be available to their little Tommy or Tina & hurt their feelings/maim them for life etc..  ::)

PS the scammer situation. I speak from a UK point of view. Now say I sell to a 0/0 buyer, I send 1st class untracked as that's what most buyers want - they do NOT want the risk of signing for drugs and the police bursting through their door so that's to be taken into account. Now this 0/0 buyer says 'no receipt'. So SR 50/50 me, I lose 50% on the sale, the buyer gets it for half price & sets a new 0/0 SR account up and does the same thing. Half price after half price. See my point?
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: TheGoodSon on November 11, 2012, 04:58 pm
This is a terrible idea...

Charging admission to a place like this will level the playing field and will cause many more sites like SR to crop up.

Charging admission will not stop any scammer

Charging admission will only hurt vendors

Charging admission is a short term solution and will not fix any bandwidth problems.

Excellent, more SR sites need to pop up.

Scamming is a non issue if you work inside the SR system

Vendors will get more business because more real buyers will be logged on and not kids browsing, etc

In Long term there will less server load on logging in, making accounts, etc that can be used for browsing and other data

No, vendors will get less business because there will be fewer new buyers browsing. You cannot attract new business by mandating an upfront payment just to see what's for sale.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: USAShroomzz on November 11, 2012, 05:10 pm
That would be true thegoodson if SR was just starting out, but SR is now huge and widely known what it contains.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: TheGoodSon on November 11, 2012, 05:17 pm
Perhaps, but consider:

You're new to this whole idea, you want to see what's for sale before you commit to anything. What can SR show you behind a pay-wall that makes you want to spend the money.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 05:28 pm
It's also the 'hidden box' scenario.........


When I were a kid if a grown up said, "here hold this box but don't you dare peek inside",. Well I'd open the box as would any other kid (I was not a geek). For the same type of reason (curiosity) & wanting to be part of something exclusive (read: iPhone snobbery) it'll be a runner. Think outside the box. At the moment any red-top rag (newspaper) can say things like: Silk Road sells drugs, guns (untrue) fake ID & can be seen by kids just by making a free account - then the 'something must be done' brigade start to fire up (due to their drink habits being so much better then other's choices) & harm can be done. It does have its drawbacks but keeping an eye on the comp. and changing accordingly if startups start to hit - come on. We make enough money. Greed can be the downfall & kill the golden goose.


PS a link to the well known SR Wiki on the front page would suffice for me if I were a new buyer that's a dead cert.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: shoxmaxim12 on November 11, 2012, 05:33 pm
I've been using SR a while now, and the growth scares me. When everyday people talking about it at work, and see it mentioned on facebook it makes it feel less exclusive than it did before.

I think it's scary beacause the way i look at it is, the more people who know the more chance it has of being brought down.  When realisticaly Growth is the best thing, it will define it more and slowly but surely create a more solid system.

Whilst i like the idea of implementing a sign up fee it wouldn't be any good, it would detier people from joining.

The only real benifical thing i can think of, is this:

The first order any user makes a mandatory donation fee goes towards SR, This alows the first time user to have alook around and see this is the real deal. 
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: shitwassocash on November 11, 2012, 05:39 pm
The fee idea is good for keeping out people so dumb/unwilling to learn that they can't figure out how to get and use BTC. People like that are a liability. They put the site at risk.


Sales won't suffer if browsing the market is free and transactions require a joiner's fee. There are many successful businesses with that model.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 05:43 pm
Or a 2 visit token. New users can login 2 times & if they do not make a buy they get locked out. Just putting it out there.....?
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: odd on November 11, 2012, 05:59 pm
SR is already set up to be a scam free environment.  People get scammed because they deal out of escrow or FE early.  People get scammed because they act impulsively and don't take the time to find a decent vendor who offers what they want without FE.  As for a buyer fee....  There are plenty of other market places, non affiliated vendors (vendors who sell strictly through email), and so on that all the buyers would go there instead and the vendors will soon follow because frankly that's where the business is.  In a system like this, here is what i would see happening.  Right now i'm sure there's a large number of people here who still haven't made an order and are doing their research to make sure for instance they can be safe, secure, anonymous, and find what they want without FE (which is why the signing in twice without making an order would not work.  research and planning is very important to keeping yourself safe.)  i think these people would eventually open a new market and we would end up just having another open membership market place.  I may still be considered a newbie to SR but I've been buying drugs on line since the days of MIRC before facebooks creator was a load in his daddy's nutsack.  SR is a godsend to the mail order industry.  The escrow system alone is huge.  i remember sending cash in the mail and praying it would show up.  Although i will say to the OP stay hungry man keep thinking of ways to improve our experience.  just because this one didn't pan out keep thinking and keep researching,  invest some time and money into learning some programming languages.  We always need people to be thinking of ways to improve what we do. 
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: shoxmaxim12 on November 11, 2012, 06:10 pm
Perhaps new members have to be recruited, i.e they make an account, enter a referance account name, the reference accepts the account, bomb they are in.

otherwise a small BTC Charge, or something
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: shitwassocash on November 11, 2012, 06:12 pm
SR is already set up to be a scam free environment.  People get scammed because they deal out of escrow or FE early.  People get scammed because they act impulsively and don't take the time to find a decent vendor who offers what they want without FE.  As for a buyer fee....  There are plenty of other market places, non affiliated vendors (vendors who sell strictly through email), and so on that all the buyers would go there instead and the vendors will soon follow because frankly that's where the business is.  In a system like this, here is what i would see happening.  Right now i'm sure there's a large number of people here who still haven't made an order and are doing their research to make sure for instance they can be safe, secure, anonymous, and find what they want without FE (which is why the signing in twice without making an order would not work.  research and planning is very important to keeping yourself safe.)  i think these people would eventually open a new market and we would end up just having another open membership market place.  I may still be considered a newbie to SR but I've been buying drugs on line since the days of MIRC before facebooks creator was a load in his daddy's nutsack.  SR is a godsend to the mail order industry.  The escrow system alone is huge.  i remember sending cash in the mail and praying it would show up.  Although i will say to the OP stay hungry man keep thinking of ways to improve our experience.  just because this one didn't pan out keep thinking and keep researching,  invest some time and money into learning some programming languages.  We always need people to be thinking of ways to improve what we do.

The forum is a separate entity that would still be free, so potential buyers would always be able to get info before they take the dive.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: snark on November 11, 2012, 06:41 pm
Similar to the having to put in an existing account for references, maybe they could give trusted members new user codes to be selectively given out, for example if someone has a friend they know would be serious about using the site as it's meant to be used. Also, potential new users could reach out to these members on the forum by sending them a summary of why they want to use the site, perhaps including some information about drugs/harm reduction strategies. That way we'll get more people who have actually done their research and have a bit of knowledge right from the get go. Just a thought!
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 07:42 pm
I was just going to say this 'by invite' idea. Anyone remember Demonoid? It got too big for its pants and became an invite service which worked very well & stopped the huge growth but kept it's status. Remember, growth in itself is not always a good thing. It has its drawbacks & little growth & staying here as opposed to unlimited growth/bad PR/football moms saying something must be done brigade is not. This is not Amazon. Unlimited growth vs. stable growth/sales. PS. How's the unlimited growth option working for you today? How much have you earned today? How about yesterday? Day before? Point made.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: 2513415805 on November 11, 2012, 08:38 pm
I would say up it a little. This is a very great concept and I'm a good customer of the site. If all the sudden we had to pay $100.00 I'd pay it just to become a member and be able to buy items. I'm sure most will not agree with me but I'd pay whatever fee it was to still be able to use SR. SR has saved time and energy and it's easy or me to get my items. Going back to local people would be a disaster we are very spoiled here.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: human5 on November 11, 2012, 08:43 pm
I think this is an excellent idea. It will help slow the explosive growth by forcing people to invest money before even being able to access the site. I would even go so far as to suggest implementing a small monthly membership fee and overall focusing the website on supplying people who supply others in real life. The website is essentially a network and should be used as such. It's notoriety as the "amazon or ebay of drugs", I believe, can and will destroy or hinder it's goal. Just my 2 cents but obviously something has to be limited here if we are to keep things going smoothly.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BTCoins on November 11, 2012, 09:38 pm
I hear all the points & as the OP I have been open to opinions & yes I can see the drawback with not seeing what's on offer but offering unlimited lurkers and enemies using bandwidth is not working either it seems so there must, as usual, be a middle way.

1. I think a small token payment will be needed but not for existing buyers. DPR can tally his servers to cope with existing & reasonable growth I am sure There are many advantages to this and the funds can be used for growth/charity/whatever.

2. Buyers need to see what's on offer. I think I can see that now but in out in out all day without buying - that's unpaid bandwidth - just not on.

3. So perhaps before payment, a temp username/password with 3 to 5 site access tokens can be granted. The user can then convert for 1 or 2 BTC for unlimited access & buyer privileges  - thus  proving they are serious and if not they won't bother & won't bother the bandwidth either. I cannot see them making free access account after free access  just to view can you?

Please read the above & consider it in the real world. I have spent a boring rainy Sunday in the UK coming up with this master plan. I think it's the answer. I'd like to see it in place. Hey and Mainstream Media/Congressman/Football Mom: in YOUR FACE  ;D - the funds go to charity. Maybe a a drugs advisory center. Let's PR them back with some Karma Ammo.

And for stress listen to the late great DB as I do & feel your place in the order of things: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4dwr2md7yY&feature=related
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: hogman on November 11, 2012, 09:41 pm
I don't like the idea, we're paying a 6%+ commission now, imposing a membership fee is a form of discrimmination in my opinion. I think they froze membership awhile back, that's good. maybe get strict on auto finalizes, or set bar higher on vendor stats,like maybe they can't go below 97%. Or as Forbe's reported recently about the 22 million in revenue that SR has generated maybe they invest some of that and upgrade the system.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: lucidmatrix on November 11, 2012, 10:31 pm
I support this idea, as a vendor I don't like that any schmuck with torbrowser can peruse my listings
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: shitwassocash on November 11, 2012, 11:05 pm
Or as Forbe's reported recently about the 22 million in revenue that SR has generated maybe they invest some of that and upgrade the system.


Seriously.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BlarghRawr on November 12, 2012, 01:10 am
Or as Forbe's reported recently about the 22 million in revenue that SR has generated maybe they invest some of that and upgrade the system.


Seriously.
Forbes underestimated but I don't want to reveal my math.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: StrangeHands on November 12, 2012, 02:05 am
Not a fee, a minimum balance. Make it so that if you do not have at least 1BTC in your account then you cannot get past the login screen, it just gives you your deposit address.

That way you get rid of all the people who want to look but have no intention of buying. You prove the person has access to bitcoins.

You could at any time take back all of your money including the 1BTC, but you would not be able to log in again until meeting the minimum.

That way there is no cost and we filter out the bitcoinless browsers.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: HassleHoff on November 12, 2012, 02:45 am
I support this idea, as a vendor I don't like that any schmuck with torbrowser can peruse my listings

I believe they still have a stealth mode for vendors. A buyers fee would do nothing to keep LE from seeing your listings. They have plenty of money for bitcoins.

I'm pretty much against the idea of a buyers fee. I think many people need time to observe the process and browse before they are ready to purchase. I spent several months lurking before I made my 1st purchase.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BlarghRawr on November 12, 2012, 02:46 am
Not a fee, a minimum balance. Make it so that if you do not have at least 1BTC in your account then you cannot get past the login screen, it just gives you your deposit address.

That way you get rid of all the people who want to look but have no intention of buying. You prove the person has access to bitcoins.

You could at any time take back all of your money including the 1BTC, but you would not be able to log in again until meeting the minimum.

That way there is no cost and we filter out the bitcoinless browsers.
Fuck that plan, too. If you don't let them browse they'll never find anything that gives them a reason to buy. So you solve the "problem" by vastly reducing the number of people who will buy stuff.

Because fucking seriously, think about that. If you joined a website and it said that you can't browse their illegal drugs until you deposit some money... are you going to say "Hey look, this sounds legitimate and I'm totally going to get some drugs now" or would you think "Hey, this looks like a scam."?

Yes, we all know what SR is. Assume you don't. Assume you've come across it from, say, the hiddenwiki(a notoriously unreliable source of information, as proven by the fact that SR's address was changed to a phishing-site so many times)... does it look legit, then? It doesn't. It looks like a darkweb scam.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: dempills on November 12, 2012, 02:49 am
If a buyer fee was to be implemented it should be differentiated from the seller fee in the signup.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: TheGoodSon on November 12, 2012, 02:58 am
Well, I am going to stand behind my earlier suggestion in that it should be free.. but..

If there were going to be a pay-wall of some sort, I do think that it should be after a few visits, but this wouldn't combat the problem of users making new accounts to get more visits either.

The idea of vendors handing out invites is a good idea IMO, you can widen it to vendors and buyers who meet certain criteria (do a certain amount of business), however, this also opens a can of worms up in that it points someone to a service, making business inherently more risky.

There is no great solution, a hybrid solution maybe needed.. the tokens -> pay is worth some thought.

Sorry I was harsh earlier., I was coming off my coffee buzz.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Skippy_Jif on November 12, 2012, 03:02 am
I fully support OPs idea. The BTCs would go for certain causes.That would be sweet because it would help out so much with scams which is SR's biggest flaw. You may not get full monies lost, but it would be better than nothing!

Good idea. Also, there would be no excuse for security flaws due to money. SR on demand! LOL
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BlarghRawr on November 12, 2012, 03:06 am
Any idea that makes buyers pay a fee or even deposit money just to browse is a TERRIBLE idea that will crippling the influx of new users and the survival of the site on the whole.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Skippy_Jif on November 12, 2012, 03:19 am
^^^^Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: TheGoodSon on November 12, 2012, 03:22 am
^^^^Care to elaborate?

Since I said the same thing earlier, IMO, enacting a pay-wall makes users who may be interested in buying in after they see what it's all about have to make a leap immediately. Given the responses of late on the forum, if the average users are _that_ paranoid, they maybe more inclined to go somewhere else.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: drganja on November 12, 2012, 03:23 am
i like the idea. i think that there should be a 200+ fee for a buyers account. this will weed out all of the members who arent serious buyers.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Purple_Hue000 on November 12, 2012, 03:29 am
We need all the soldiers we can get for a place like this. The bigger the growth, The Stronger we grow, the more we know, The dope we smoke!
All the Federal Government does is oppress us!
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: CrazyBart on November 12, 2012, 03:38 am
At first i was all for some kind of buyer fee to register. The more i think about it the less i like the idea though. If we limit the amount of people here and become an exclusive group, the more we detract from the Silk Road creed. The bigger we are the harder we are to stop. Drugs should be available to everyone for personal, exploratory use. The number of people on the site isn't the problem, the admins and DPR just need to work on the infrastructure. Continue to allow as many people to join but also put the safety of the customer first.

Most people are saying it will weed out the "not serious buyers," but what does that mean exactly? Say i come here and only want to buy a gram or two of weed every now and then. Does that make me less important than the person who buys a LB of it?

Everybody needs to cool their jets, we are all just trying to get high as giraffe pussy. 
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Skippy_Jif on November 12, 2012, 03:48 am
^^^^Care to elaborate?

Since I said the same thing earlier, IMO, enacting a pay-wall makes users who may be interested in buying in after they see what it's all about have to make a leap immediately. Given the responses of late on the forum, if the average users are _that_ paranoid, they maybe more inclined to go somewhere else.

SR is very popular. Kinda like the Wal Mart of retail. That being said people will pay to come in because it has proven itself. $20 isn't shit to get on here and see if you like it or not. You know you're gonna :)
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: TheGoodSon on November 12, 2012, 03:54 am
^^^^Care to elaborate?

Since I said the same thing earlier, IMO, enacting a pay-wall makes users who may be interested in buying in after they see what it's all about have to make a leap immediately. Given the responses of late on the forum, if the average users are _that_ paranoid, they maybe more inclined to go somewhere else.

SR is very popular. Kinda like the Wal Mart of retail. That being said people will pay to come in because it has proven itself. $20 isn't shit to get on here and see if you like it or not. You know you're gonna :)

I do understand that position, but if Walmart started charging, they'd see everyone run to Target or Krogers. SR could implement a pay-wall because the only real competition is BMR, and BMR isn't big time enough to take on SR. My view is as a vendor, I like new clients (0/0s). I always take pride in introducing someone to the joy that we all know is SR, my contention is that my <3 of helping new users is that I may not get to do that as much.

Cheers :)

PS. The other reason is because user load (probably) had nothing to do with this.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: CrazyBart on November 12, 2012, 03:56 am
At first i was all for some kind of buyer fee to register. The more i think about it the less i like the idea though. If we limit the amount of people here and become an exclusive group, the more we detract from the Silk Road creed. The bigger we are the harder we are to stop. Drugs should be available to everyone for personal, exploratory use. The number of people on the site isn't the problem, the admins and DPR just need to work on the infrastructure. Continue to allow as many people to join but also put the safety of the customer first.

Most people are saying it will weed out the "not serious buyers," but what does that mean exactly? Say i come here and only want to buy a gram or two of weed every now and then. Does that make me less important than the person who buys a LB of it?

Everybody needs to cool their jets, we are all just trying to get high as giraffe pussy.

   Yes it does make you less important. this site should be mainly for semi bulk to bulk buyers who than distribute to people like you. This place is my business and it hurts when we have scammers that can make as many accounts as they want, too many people on the servers that barely even use the service, etc etc.All of these things drive away our beloved sellers and force them to make ridiculous terms like requiring FE because of how many stupid uneducated teenager scammers that there are.  im extremely grateful for silkroad and i love everything about it. i just dont want to see it dissapear due to incompetence.

Ok, If the infrastructure got fixed, assuming never any down time.

Nobody is forcing you to sell small amounts or to buyers without reputable stats.

now where is the problem for you?
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BlarghRawr on November 12, 2012, 04:17 am
Say i come here and only want to buy a gram or two of weed every now and then. Does that make me less important than the person who buys a LB of it?
Yes it does make you less important.
Fuck you, drganja.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: jonscotch on November 12, 2012, 05:28 am
Keep things the same. Everyone in this thread was a newbie at some point. Y'all need to get off your high horses.

The more members, the more sellers, the more drugs we all can enjoy.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BlarghRawr on November 12, 2012, 05:42 am
Keep things the same. Everyone in this thread was a newbie at some point. Y'all need to get off your high horses.

The more members, the more sellers, the more drugs we all can enjoy.
Fucking exactly. +1 to you for saying something that makes sense.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BenJesuit on November 12, 2012, 06:26 am
It would be unfortunate if a buyer fee were implemented. It is unnecessary.

A vendor can chose who he/she wants to sell to. They can also set a minimum quantity. They can limit the shipping method to DCN only so they have proof of delivery. They can limit sales to established buyers with certain stats.

Not seeing why this would need to be implemented. It serves no real purpose. It wouldn't protect vendors from scammers. It wouldn't even lighten server load.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: catlicker on November 12, 2012, 08:17 am
Keep everything the same except when you register, have you sent straight to the wiki page then to  forum page. before they can even browse the site.

and maybe show a page of a few of the other sites that THEY SHOULD ALREADY BE AWARE OF !! ie bluelight, erowid,   
shroomery,(million other forum boards) ect   even GOOGLE SEARCH that they should already know how to use !

they amount of lazy people round here amaze me. They can't do 5 minutes of research and start 500 topics over something already covered or only sign up to the forum once they think there scammed.

 

but no, charging or changing it is not the answer. Most good vendors know how to keep off the scammers. Alot of people get all high and mighty as "I was here first" or "I'm the only cool one who can get exotic drugs(to there friends)"

sorry for the bit of a rant !!
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: bynter on November 12, 2012, 08:30 am
Now here's something no one else seems to consider: How are you going to pay for an entrance fee with BTC when a very large majority of people get their initial BTC from SR?


and on the subject of newbies who dont RTFM and make a million posts about things: Question and Newbie boards!
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: iMaverick on November 12, 2012, 09:09 am

^^^^Care to elaborate?

Since I said the same thing earlier, IMO, enacting a pay-wall makes users who may be interested in buying in after they see what it's all about have to make a leap immediately. Given the responses of late on the forum, if the average users are _that_ paranoid, they maybe more inclined to go somewhere else.

SR is very popular. Kinda like the Wal Mart of retail. That being said people will pay to come in because it has proven itself. $20 isn't shit to get on here and see if you like it or not. You know you're gonna :)

damn, lets make it $200!!

in my mind, the fee must be, but it should be reasonable. like $5-10 semiannually.
not that much for the SR privilege, but at the same time good enough to prove a buyer's intentions (whether 1-2 grams of weed, or 1LB of #3 H).

i hope this  at least would restrain scammers from fucking with vendors..
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Revolutionista on November 12, 2012, 09:57 am
I think its pretty logical to think there should be a fee, although I certainly dont think it should be more than 1 bitcoin/$10. The costs involved in running and maintaing this project would be a pitiful reason dpr and his gang to sack it all off. If you favour sustainability you'll advocate a fee. Optional donation wont work either, everyday I log on to sites that provide top grade global scale free content begging for donations and they get $5 a day if they're lucky.
The process of getting bitcoins for me was a long and trivial one. I spent at least 6weeks browsing before actually working out how to get bitcoins in my sr acc. The two processes of getting on sr and gettin bitcoins are out of sync so badly which is why they could be just 10% of sr accs ever evn had a coin deposited. I mean christ i could be on sr from any android device with the help of wikipedia ;) in 4 minutes!
In short use the bane of getting bitcoins as the filter for serious users. Even a 0.05 bitcoin fee shows theyve been serious enough to go out and figure out how to get bitcoins. And if you wanted to be really picky they would have to prove their pgp competency before full access was granted. This would DRASTICALLY reduce the possibility of some randomer just hearing about sr, googling it and be wasting bandwith (or whatever you describe it as in this dimension) within minutes. Sr use would speak alone the lines im assuming it was designed to. ie one guy sharing the knowledge of how to use it with his close friends he trusts wont abuse it.
Anyhow this is my first post hi to all sorry its been a rant and a half but im thrilled to be here ; D
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BlarghRawr on November 12, 2012, 10:34 am
If there is going to be a free, it should be applied to everyone who joined in that last year. You fuckers pushed it over the edge. :)

Since you newb-fucks seem to love suggesting it, why not pay it yourself. Fucknuggets.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: gazwel on November 12, 2012, 10:41 am
Am I missing something, let people view the site without paying is an option?

Surely that would not solve anything? As people would still be clogging up the system? I would not mind paying a small annual fee if it meant I could buy my stuff quicker but I ain't paying so kids can view the site all day without buying and stop me from getting on.

How about if you don't buy within 30 minutes you get booted? Would that work?
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: herbaman on November 12, 2012, 10:50 am
Considering the new wanted or unwanted rush a Demonoid type of invitation from verified users(Min 15 transaction) to enable access to the site too will be great.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: greatwh1tebuffalo on November 12, 2012, 11:07 am
So this fee should apply to all buyers new and existing right?
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Twelve_Pickles on November 12, 2012, 11:44 am
No fee. No exceptions.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: JoeHartley on November 12, 2012, 12:27 pm
I say that a buyer's fee isn't a bad idea, but it shouldn't be imposed upon existing members who have at least 10 transactions - they have already proven themselves to be a part of the community. It would definitely dissuade a number of new members, but DPR has always been of the opinion that SR should be available to all.....those capable of finding it ;)  I admire his desire to keep equality and accessibility to this project, rather than making it exclusive and charging extra fees! Our attempts to introduce peace to the war on drugs won't be nearly as effective if we limit our numbers - people are power!
Just my 2 cents,
- JH
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Revenantchild on November 12, 2012, 03:52 pm
I like the idea of a 2.5btc joining fee (non returnable) It would also deter shithead scammers or buyers with bad stats from opening up accounts whenever their accounts start looking bad from auto-finalize or a ton of refunds. They do a number of small transactions and then suddenly a big one that "doesn't arrive" There are plenty of sites that charge to open accounts. It would also make careless users a little more careful. I've personally had quite a few users reappearing as different users with stories of losing their passwords or pin numbers etc...
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: TheGoodSon on November 12, 2012, 05:43 pm
I like the idea of a 2.5btc joining fee (non returnable) It would also deter shithead scammers or buyers with bad stats from opening up accounts whenever their accounts start looking bad from auto-finalize or a ton of refunds. They do a number of small transactions and then suddenly a big one that "doesn't arrive" There are plenty of sites that charge to open accounts. It would also make careless users a little more careful. I've personally had quite a few users reappearing as different users with stories of losing their passwords or pin numbers etc...

A fee would solve none of those problems, scammers will gladly pay 2.5BTC if it means they can "buy trust"
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: bynter on November 12, 2012, 07:24 pm
How about this idea: You can pay the fee OR get ten user feedback. But until you do one of them, your order size is restricted and you  are eligible to have to FE
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: jonscotch on November 12, 2012, 07:49 pm
How about this idea: You can pay the fee OR get ten user feedback. But until you do one of them, your order size is restricted and you  are eligible to have to FE

This is a horrible idea. If you don't pay the fee, how could you get ten feedback? And if new members have to FE, how would they not just be scammed 95% of the time?
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: bynter on November 12, 2012, 08:28 pm
How about this idea: You can pay the fee OR get ten user feedback. But until you do one of them, your order size is restricted and you  are eligible to have to FE
Well what i'm suggesting isn't a system all too different from the current one. But members who pay the fee get a badge so sellers can see, "this guy is serious about buying." You'd still be able to buy without paying the fee, and it'd still be at the discretion of the seller if new buyers who haven't payed the fee have to FE
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: breastimus2 on November 12, 2012, 08:44 pm
I'm a new buyer and I would be more than happy to do some type of membership payment in order to ensure the survival of the site if it would help. This site just seems way too good to be true and if Napster couldn't hold up in court, I can't imagine this site will either with public access... But I respect DPRs philosophy as it's his site. The guy is smart enough to run this joint so I can imagine he's already factored all these options to consider the pros and cons.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: shitwassocash on November 12, 2012, 09:04 pm
Ideally this site should be free full access to all.

But right now no one can use the market. For some time before SR went down, registrations had been taken away: no access for any new users.

We hope DPR and his team have enough money and smarts to upgrade SR to take on the growth, but if we keep having facing these issues as a result of too many people coming on board, something will have to change. For the sake of survival of the site.

I still stand behind a small BTC fee for a buyer account, with transactions requiring a buyer account and viewing the market free to unpaid buyer accounts. A fee won't deter scammers and LE, but it would weed out people too dumb to figure out how to get BTC. People like that are a liability. Any serious buyer who isn't a fuckwit will do the research and get the btc. And the money generated can be put back into the site, so SR can take on even more users.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: 1100101 on November 12, 2012, 09:38 pm
As it's been said, it's a bad idea IMO.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: puddle7 on November 13, 2012, 02:33 am
I signed up to SR before the seller fee.  Honestly I almost balked at just having to sign up to look at the site!  Another username and password to remember, and you better believe it's not the username I use everywhere else on the web!  I was hoping to start vending, but then the seller fee was added, and I had been doing my research before upgrading to a vendor account.  That $150 might not seem like much to you successful vendors, but look at all the other stuff someone has to do to get started properly.  Gotta get postal materials and DCNs safely, design good packaging, learn PGP, acquire product, etc, etc.  The seller fee doesn't prevent new sellers who don't follow any of those protocols, either.  I was planning to start out small, listing one or two items at a time to get up to speed before committing to more orders.  $150 is a good chunk of change right now, so I'm frozen out of that.  I understand why the seller fees are necessary in limiting scammers, but it also blocks people who want to start out small.

I am glad I was able to see the site just by signing up - it is very impressive!  The forums took me a while to find - they are a tiny link in the corner that I finally found and clicked on after reading all the FAQ's.  If you require a buyer fee, it will scare away careful people like me, because I'm not sending money to some site I haven't even seen, no matter how cool it's supposed to be!  You'll just limit new users to those with more money than sense.  Kids who get plenty of cash from their folks won't mind risking a few bucks.  Those of us who have to earn our cash aren't likely to chance it.  In short, I am strongly against buyer fees.

Somebody mentioned something that might be good though - link to the forums and make people ask for invites.  This means that people will be doing some reading before signing up.  I was so amazed when I found the forums!  So much info!  I wouldn't have been as impressed by them if I hadn't seen the site yet, but it could be a reasonable trade-off.  Requireing invites would limit new users to those who are able to read and communicate.  If you want to limit kids signing up, this will at least be a step in that direction.  Sure, many kids are smart enough and communicate well enough to pass, but hopefully those kids would be smart enough to be careful with what they get at least.  I mean, the ones who just click on the picture like it's something from ebay and don't really read much are the ones who are less likely to know what they're doing.  They can't do research if they can't read, right?  On the other hand, it does place a burden on non-English speakers.  Still, checking whether someone can communicate before letting them in is a much better option than checking if they'll send money to just get access to a darknet site they haven't seen yet.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Skippy_Jif on November 13, 2012, 02:50 am
Puddle: There is nothing easy about start up as Vendor status if you don't have money. My advice is to buy the account and give out a few samples to reputable members i=on the forum. Send these samples via first class to save money. When giving out samples make sure you make a listing($0.0) with free shipping so that when the samplers get their samples they can leave you feedback. Second is to mark your prices to the other vendors and if you can have lower prices. Then advertise, advertise and advertise some more.

All during that time you should be buying priority stamps w/ tracking, so when you do receive orders you can go ahead and ship out the orders and get paid in 2-3days. As long as you have good product, response time to your clients and ship quickly then your business is all down hill. You'll be making pretty good money in no time.

Hope this helps. Don't let it pass you by because of a few hundred dollars.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: puddle7 on November 13, 2012, 04:30 am
Thanks Skip.  I suppose there's no need for tracking on samples is there?  Why would somebody lie about not getting it if it's free?  I may still make it happen sometime, but right at the moment I can't for a lot of other reasons.  I mainly wanted to point out what adding financial barriers does, and share my perspective as a newbie.  There are big orders on here, but lots of people come here just for small amounts for their own use, and nobody with any internet savvy will put up with a paywall just to get access.  Vendors will of course, and it slows down the scammers, so it's a good thing.  People like to window shop before they buy.  The anticipation is a big part of the experience, and all these suggestions to only allow a glimpse of the site or charge a fee just to look will block that out if they get put into place.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: BlarghRawr on November 13, 2012, 04:41 am
Thanks Skip.  I suppose there's no need for tracking on samples is there?  Why would somebody lie about not getting it if it's free?
To get another freebie. Some people are complete assholes.
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: Skippy_Jif on November 14, 2012, 06:35 am
No tracking is necessary as long as you pick the right people. Blargh is right, people can be assholes and there are a lot on SR that pull shit they wouldn't do IRL, but if you're smart and listen to people who have traveled the path before then you will be fine.

Blargh would be a good candidate for a sample if he is willing to accept the freebie, Dondada, Removed and others in SR Vendor Drug Specific threads. Just make sure you ask for permission and set up gpg/PGP for messaging and/or getting addresses.

If you do this simple, but crucial start up then you will bring in some good money. Be nice, competitive, responsive and safe and you'll never look back. Good luck!
Title: Re: Silk Road Buyer Membership Fee - Thoughts?
Post by: CharlieAndMollie on November 14, 2012, 08:11 am
Come on guys?! Membership fees?
We do not need or want legislation do we? We do not like being told what we can and cannot do right?
We hate governments telling us that we get punished when we buy, use or sell drugs right?
SR is a free and open anonymous community not bound by any government laws. If there is a pirate, we are all shipmates, are we not?
If the boat gets full just buy a second boat or a third boat. This is how we become an armada and can conquer the world.
No fees or hurdles to become a shipmate please, I hate the idea.