Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: crowfootagenda on June 18, 2012, 11:06 pm

Title: MDMA Safety
Post by: crowfootagenda on June 18, 2012, 11:06 pm
I have always stayed away from molly and ecstasy because I have heard and read many negative things about it's possible long term effects. I know many people insist that it has no negative effects in the long term but I believe some studies have provided evidence to the contrary. Do you guys and gals believe MDMA is safe? and what do you use to back up that belief?
(I don't claim to know anything and am really just interested in what everyone else thinks.)
Peace.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: oscarzululondon on June 18, 2012, 11:09 pm
but I believe some studies have provided evidence to the contrary.

No there isn't. Not a single one. Isn't that amazing?

If you take it every day obviously you're going to deplete the serotonin in your brain and feel a bit low and maybe get a cold, but once every couple of weeks to a month and you're good to go. Like everything in life it's about balance.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: thesilence981 on June 19, 2012, 06:09 am
3 weeks between rolling minimum, most say a month or more.

and also obviosly keep the dose under 250mg or so, maybe even 200mg if your on the lighter side or sensitive to stims

i only do about 150mg, usually dose with 50 more a couple hours later
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: sdesu on June 20, 2012, 07:35 pm
There are a number of safety risks when taking MDMA, or any drug for that matter.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11888574

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20483717

Also, 250mg+ of MDMA is a high dose, if not borderline overdose; I would recommend avoiding doses that high.

sdesu
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gtgeorgz on June 20, 2012, 08:55 pm
i have taken MDMA four times in my life, in the space of about a year. I have only had positive impacts from it, primary ones being, a fucking good time everytime i take it obviously haha. But i always seem to get an after glow after the experience that lasts weeks on end where i feel good and 'nice', its also given me a more positive outlook and 'appreciation' of life. Nothing drastic and not to noticeable but its defiantly given me something :) its hard to describe if i'm honest! its a wonderful, magical drug if respected  :P
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gambino on June 21, 2012, 12:37 am
It's a hell of a lot safer than drinking alcohol, which is very hard on your body, especially your liver (and sometimes your relationships, too).  But you wouldn't worry about having a few drinks every so often, would you?  MDMA is something everyone should try.  And it's not like heroin or meth -- you're not going to develop an addiction or anything crazy like that.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: BoNgOn on June 21, 2012, 01:40 am
Get good MDMA not all was made equally.
Don't do often..
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: crowfootagenda on June 21, 2012, 03:19 am
in response to gambino I just want to say that I actually don't drink alcohol. thanks for all the other feedback, it sounds like overall mdma can be a valuable drugs but is not without risks when used incorrectly, nowhere near the safety of weed (but then again, what is?). I've also heard of people taking 5-url supplements to compendlsate for seratonin deficiency. has anyone seen studies that prove the effectiveness of this?
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: sdesu on June 21, 2012, 04:54 am
in response to gambino I just want to say that I actually don't drink alcohol. thanks for all the other feedback, it sounds like overall mdma can be a valuable drugs but is not without risks when used incorrectly, nowhere near the safety of weed (but then again, what is?). I've also heard of people taking 5-url supplements to compendlsate for seratonin deficiency. has anyone seen studies that prove the effectiveness of this?

You can take 5-htp supplements. 5-htp (5-hydroxytrpytophan) is the precursor to serotonin and increases the production of serotonin.

sdesu
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gtgeorgz on June 21, 2012, 10:06 am
in response to gambino I just want to say that I actually don't drink alcohol. thanks for all the other feedback, it sounds like overall mdma can be a valuable drugs but is not without risks when used incorrectly, nowhere near the safety of weed (but then again, what is?). I've also heard of people taking 5-url supplements to compendlsate for seratonin deficiency. has anyone seen studies that prove the effectiveness of this?

yeah if you take 100mg 5htp when you start to come down from the MDMA and for a few days afterwards, it helps with the comedown a lot and its said to replenish the serotonin that was lost during your roll, hence blocking some of potential 'brain damage' that may have been done during your roll.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: k1k1 on June 21, 2012, 11:11 am
i was doing mdma for a period of about 3years as good as daily (also other drugs, but mainly molly). i woke up and my first meal were some pills or a line of the love-powder... :\ (the wild young years, lol)
theoretically, i don't have any serotonin left in my brain, but that's just a theory. i never experienced smth like a xtc/mdma hang-over, but i know many ppl does.
after doing a break for several years with mdma, my tolerance is still pretty damn high :( (i need about 1g molly for a trip, that's so fuckin sad and expensive!!).

while my break, i went to many doctors and let check my brain and everything else which can be damaged by acting that irresponsibly, all they noticed was, that i nearly lost all of my mucosa and there is a little hollow space in my head.
i'm not a kind of depressed person, which i should theoretically be. the opposite is the case, i'm a happy person (ofc also w/o doing drugs ;) )
my story should ne encourage you to do mdma a lot, use it with care and get your own experience.
even i didn't get any big damage, i don't think mdma is healthy. no... i'm sure that mdma does damage on brain and body, perhaps i was kind of very very lucky.
on the other side, please tell me smth that's really healthy nowadays ;)
just one point which does reminds me every day of my behavior: i got a little tremore on my eyes, muscles and jaw...

If you're thinking about dosage, do you your weight*1,5 in mg (e.g. you weight 100kg, it'll be 100*1,5 = 150, so my recommend dosage would be 150mg for an intense trip, do lower if you're new to it. you can always do more, but once you consumed it, it's in your blood circulation, don't forget about that.)
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: StickAFinger on June 21, 2012, 02:08 pm
ingesting 1g trip of molly is probably the craziest shit i ever heard.


im happy you made it out alive and relatively unscathed.

i suggest you hang your molly jersey up, that drug retired!

i once trusted my friend to measure out a dose for me, thinking it would be the typical 120-160mg-sh realm

days later it turned out he gave us 250mg, strangely enough, i was ok, (only rolled about 8 times in my life)

i did have for the first time the eye wiggle, but i  was alright. i wouldnt do that amount again, id stick to the typical range.

it was pure molly too, im so fucking happy i didnt find out immediately after ingestion, as i would have freaked the fuck out
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: darthvaderstar on June 21, 2012, 11:10 pm
i was doing mdma for a period of about 3years as good as daily (also other drugs, but mainly molly). i woke up and my first meal were some pills or a line of the love-powder... :\ (the wild young years, lol)
theoretically, i don't have any serotonin left in my brain, but that's just a theory. i never experienced smth like a xtc/mdma hang-over, but i know many ppl does.
after doing a break for several years with mdma, my tolerance is still pretty damn high :( (i need about 1g molly for a trip, that's so fuckin sad and expensive!!).

while my break, i went to many doctors and let check my brain and everything else which can be damaged by acting that irresponsibly, all they noticed was, that i nearly lost all of my mucosa and there is a little hollow space in my head.
i'm not a kind of depressed person, which i should theoretically be. the opposite is the case, i'm a happy person (ofc also w/o doing drugs ;) )
my story should ne encourage you to do mdma a lot, use it with care and get your own experience.
even i didn't get any big damage, i don't think mdma is healthy. no... i'm sure that mdma does damage on brain and body, perhaps i was kind of very very lucky.
on the other side, please tell me smth that's really healthy nowadays ;)
just one point which does reminds me every day of my behavior: i got a little tremore on my eyes, muscles and jaw...

If you're thinking about dosage, do you your weight*1,5 in mg (e.g. you weight 100kg, it'll be 100*1,5 = 150, so my recommend dosage would be 150mg for an intense trip, do lower if you're new to it. you can always do more, but once you consumed it, it's in your blood circulation, don't forget about that.)

you have been doing mdma almost daily for 3 years? i have been abusing mdma ALOT since i started about 4 years ago. Even if i wanted to i couldn't do it daily, i wouldn
t feel much and would feel like shit too much. The most i've done was 3 days in a row with 250+ consumed each day and that was way too much for me that i had to take a long break. Moderation is key, a month minimum will do you good but if you must at LEAST 2 weeks. You will be fine, if your feeling you have done it too much, take a break and you will good.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: oscarzululondon on June 21, 2012, 11:26 pm
that i nearly lost all of my mucosa and there is a little hollow space in my head.

This is a joke to people reading this thread who don't know much about MDMA by the way. MDMA doesn't create "holes" in your brain, it's just a rumor based on bad medical science that law enforcement like to perpetuate. It doesn't kill any brain cells at all infact.

The rumor about holes started because some dip-shit FDA scientists did a CAT scan on peoples brains before and immediately after taking MDMA, and tuned the CAT scanner to look for serotonin, which of course is depleted after an MDMA binge so it looked on the pictures like there were grey holes in the brain, but really these were just areas of the graph with low serotonin, which gets replenished within a few days if you eat well and sleep well.

Using their 'Science' you can make holes in your brain by having sex and see the dopamine depleted before and after sex, or eat lots of chocolate and see hormones do other things, it's all bullshit.

The biggest risk with MDMA is drowning, people drink wayyyyy too much water because they think they are thirsty when they aren't. I've seen people down 4 liters of water like it's manna from heaven, so it's good to be aware of that. Just pace your drinking, a good idea is to get a 500ml bottle and just stick to that all night. Also have some chewing gum because you tend to grind your teeth a little and don't realise.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: smokeweed420 on June 22, 2012, 12:09 am
you dont have to worry about over dosing on it. the ld50 on it is really high. you would have to eat like 5g of mdma and not puke it up which would be very hard. i have taken 1.5g in a night (not proud of it) and had no negative symptoms. the worst that would happen is that you would have an overly intense experience
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: Tryptamine on June 22, 2012, 01:07 am
If you are severely malnourished (like a lab monkey) and take a very large dose, you may risk brain damage.
As long as your brain's metabolism is sufficient to accomodate the increased activity induced by MDMA, and you avoid taking an excessive amount, it will not be neurotoxic.

Don't drink excessive water, don't overheat, and you should be fine. Take lots of vitamin C every day if you can.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: SteveyMcBobbyPants on June 22, 2012, 04:11 am
A lot of people suggest 5-HTP for the comedown but that shit isn't good for your heart. Sure, some of it crosses your blood-brain barrier and gets converted into serotonin. Most of it, though, gets converted into serotonin by your liver which is very bad for your heart. If you want to increase your levels of serotonin (which in turn decreases any, albeit small, risk of neurotoxicity), take an l-Tryptophan supplement after rolling. l-Tryptophan is also a primary precursor to serotonin but it is only converted into serotonin after it has safely crossed the blood-brain barrier, not in the liver.

Honestly, go roll your tits off. Your body will tell you if you're overdoing it.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: oscarzululondon on June 22, 2012, 04:42 am
A lot of people suggest 5-HTP for the comedown but that shit isn't good for your heart. Sure, some of it crosses your blood-brain barrier and gets converted into serotonin. Most of it, though, gets converted into serotonin by your liver which is very bad for your heart. If you want to increase your levels of serotonin (which in turn decreases any, albeit small, risk of neurotoxicity), take an l-Tryptophan supplement after rolling. l-Tryptophan is also a primary precursor to serotonin but it is only converted into serotonin after it has safely crossed the blood-brain barrier, not in the liver.

Honestly, go roll your tits off. Your body will tell you if you're overdoing it.

I totally agree with what you're saying, but from personal experience NO shitty artificial additives help.

Nothing beats lots of meaty protein and dairy foods and sunshine to replenish serotonin:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100412113628AAcMfTw

Think about it, when you get a good nights sleep your normal bodily function is to convert all the melatonin in your brain (sleep chemical) to serotonin (happy chemical) for the next day.

Why do you think people feel so great after lying on the beach all day? Sunlight literally creates serotonin in your brain. Sunbathing the next day after taking MDMA is perfection, trust me.

Also for various reasons I can't be bothered to explain, just taking vitamins alone is pointless, you need the "carriers" to make that vitamin useful, which are usually found alongside the vitamin in the fruit or vegetable or meat it came from. For example you can eat 3 tonnes of Vitamin C, but if you don't have the corresponding carrier found in Oranges etc, then it won't be able to enter your white blood cells, be manipulated by your DNA and become useful for fighting bacteria.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: SteveyMcBobbyPants on June 22, 2012, 05:01 am

I totally agree with what you're saying, but from personal experience NO shitty artificial additives help.

Nothing beats lots of meaty protein and dairy foods and sunshine to replenish serotonin:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100412113628AAcMfTw

Think about it, when you get a good nights your normal bodily function is to convert all the melatonin in your brain (sleep chemical) to serotonin (happy chemical) for the next day.

Why do you think people feel so great after lying on the beach all day? Sunlight literally creates serotonin in your brain. Sunbathing the next day after taking MDMA is perfection, trust me.

Also for various reasons I can't be bothered to explain, just taking vitamins alone is pointless, you need the "carriers" to make that vitamin useful, which are usually found alongside the vitamin in the fruit or vegetable or meat it came from. For example you can eat 3 tonnes of Vitamin C, but if you don't have the corresponding carrier found in Oranges etc, then it won't be able to enter your white blood cells, be manipulated by your DNA and become useful for fighting bacteria.

You're totally and completely right. Nothing helps your body recover more than a healthy diet, restful sleep, and an active lifestyle. Idk some people just feel like they can get away with taking a vitamin/supplement and being A-okay. A lot of people don't realize that the pill they're popping to recover is actually doing just as much harm. Spread the good word of common freaking sense, Oscar.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: k1k1 on June 22, 2012, 10:23 am
that i nearly lost all of my mucosa and there is a little hollow space in my head.
This is a joke to people reading this thread who don't know much about MDMA by the way. MDMA doesn't create "holes" in your brain, it's just a rumor based on bad medical science that law enforcement like to perpetuate. It doesn't kill any brain cells at all infact.

I guess this wasn't caused by the mdma, but by meth and coke, which i also took regularly in that time and i don't know what everything else i snorted ;\
mdma is a great thing, if you can handle it, but nowadays i love my weed and sometimes i'm still doing some experiment, but mostly as therapys, to solve some problems i have personally or found smth i want to explore in meditation, but yeah still some times to do party (one or two times in a year) :)
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: MasterS on June 22, 2012, 04:12 pm
http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/131/11/2936.full

Study showing, "findings suggest sustained effects of ecstasy on brain microvasculature, white matter maturation and possibly axonal damage due to low dosages of ecstasy. Although we do not know yet whether these effects are reversible or not, we cannot exclude that ecstasy even in low doses is neurotoxic to the brain."

 No discovered long term effects of serotonin depletion and affecting regulation.

Which is funny because I read another study a week ago showing that serotonin production wasn't normal up to 3 years after use. (Can't find the article sorry -_-)

The more studies done the better but people need to take into account that a true scientific experiment has only 1 variable with all else being controls. Otherwise it becomes conjecture and pseudoscience. (I know a lot of studies that are getting funded have a goal that isn't possible to achieve only 1 variable and they are doing the best they can in the scientific community) I'm just sick of poorly devised studies, poorly interpreted results, and an overall lack of scientific approach people give to new information.

Knowledge is God people.

With that, I'm off to go roll my ass off ^_^
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: Tryptamine on June 22, 2012, 05:43 pm
A lot of people suggest 5-HTP for the comedown but that shit isn't good for your heart. Sure, some of it crosses your blood-brain barrier and gets converted into serotonin. Most of it, though, gets converted into serotonin by your liver which is very bad for your heart. If you want to increase your levels of serotonin (which in turn decreases any, albeit small, risk of neurotoxicity), take an l-Tryptophan supplement after rolling. l-Tryptophan is also a primary precursor to serotonin but it is only converted into serotonin after it has safely crossed the blood-brain barrier, not in the liver.

Honestly, go roll your tits off. Your body will tell you if you're overdoing it.

I totally agree with what you're saying, but from personal experience NO shitty artificial additives help.

Nothing beats lots of meaty protein and dairy foods and sunshine to replenish serotonin:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100412113628AAcMfTw

Think about it, when you get a good nights sleep your normal bodily function is to convert all the melatonin in your brain (sleep chemical) to serotonin (happy chemical) for the next day.

Why do you think people feel so great after lying on the beach all day? Sunlight literally creates serotonin in your brain. Sunbathing the next day after taking MDMA is perfection, trust me.

Also for various reasons I can't be bothered to explain, just taking vitamins alone is pointless, you need the "carriers" to make that vitamin useful, which are usually found alongside the vitamin in the fruit or vegetable or meat it came from. For example you can eat 3 tonnes of Vitamin C, but if you don't have the corresponding carrier found in Oranges etc, then it won't be able to enter your white blood cells, be manipulated by your DNA and become useful for fighting bacteria.

I'm afraid I disagree with you.

First of all, serotonin is not a 'happy chemical', or anything of the sort. In fact it is a molecule produced during stress, which further propagates the stress reaction through your body. It strongly suppresses oxidative metabolism and favors glycolysis, like cortisol and estrogen. Its physiological effects in animals include tropor and learned helplessness. In humans, high amounts (as in users of SSRI) can lead to suicide, due to constant inescapable stress. It also promotes neurotoxicity.
Most of what people think about serotonin is disinformation; Serotonin was discovered several years after LSD, (which at the time was thought of by those scientists who didn't take it as 'psychotomimetic') and when it was found that LSD was an extremely potent serotonin antagonist the logic was that increasing serotonin activity would have the opposite effect of LSD (and would make 'insane' people 'sane'). In reality, the beneficial effects of drugs like LSD and MDMA are caused in part by their antagonism of serotonin, and many people know that taking 5-HTP beforehand substantially dampens the effects of these, which is consistent with serotonin being an (the?) anti-psychedelic agent.

Also, I agree that supplements may be ineffective and often harmful, due largely to self-serving disinformation propagated by the supplement industry (under the guise of "these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA...") that compels people to eat things no human should be eating, like fish and flax oil, or aspartic acid. That said, there's no question that nutritional supplementation can prevent adverse effects from drug use; the 300+ 5/5 feedback on my products, about half of which is for the anti-neurotoxicity pill, suggests otherwise.

And vitamin C doesn't need a cofactor to be used; Linus Pauling successfully used intravenous synthetic vitamin C to cure cancer, so clearly it's physiologically active.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: oscarzululondon on June 22, 2012, 05:56 pm
And vitamin C doesn't need a cofactor to be used; Linus Pauling successfully used intravenous synthetic vitamin C to cure cancer, so clearly it's physiologically active.

Good news! I'll go tell all the people dying from cancer...  ::)

Every vitamin needs a cofactor, infact Vitamin C doesn't even get stored in your body, it gets flushed straight out, which is why once you start taking it you need it every day.

It's much much much better to have a balanced diet and active outdoor lifestyle with lots of sunshine etc, you wouldn't get cancer in the first place then. I can guarantee my diet of fruit, vegetables and fish will make me feel a lot better physically and mentally than pizza, pasta, burgers & supplements.

I'm not saying your product  doesn't work, obviously it's going to work, it's giving people exactly what they need exactly when they need it. I'm just saying there's a more natural, healthy alternative if people bother to put in the time. I suppose not everyone has that time luxury however.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2012, 01:30 am
Do you guys and gals believe MDMA is safe? and what do you use to back up that belief?

My 2 cents on this: provided you are in good general health and not taking any medication, especially SSRI antidepressants, mdma is not that dangerous a drug. The main risk in recreational use is simply overdoing it, dancing and jumping around for hours, which eventually can lead to dehydration, hyperthretmia and such.

These side effects are serious and potentially fatal, so you need to have friend looking out for your well-being when taking them at parties. The direct effects of mdma are not likely to cause injury at all, but the effects caused by altered behavior very well can.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: Tryptamine on June 23, 2012, 05:41 am
And vitamin C doesn't need a cofactor to be used; Linus Pauling successfully used intravenous synthetic vitamin C to cure cancer, so clearly it's physiologically active.

Good news! I'll go tell all the people dying from cancer...  ::)

Every vitamin needs a cofactor, infact Vitamin C doesn't even get stored in your body, it gets flushed straight out, which is why once you start taking it you need it every day.

It's much much much better to have a balanced diet and active outdoor lifestyle with lots of sunshine etc, you wouldn't get cancer in the first place then. I can guarantee my diet of fruit, vegetables and fish will make me feel a lot better physically and mentally than pizza, pasta, burgers & supplements.

I'm not saying your product  doesn't work, obviously it's going to work, it's giving people exactly what they need exactly when they need it. I'm just saying there's a more natural, healthy alternative if people bother to put in the time. I suppose not everyone has that time luxury however.

Vitamin C is a cofactor, you don't need anything else for it to be utilized. You 'need' to take it every day because humans and other primates who (should) eat a diet consisting almost entirely of fruit cannot synthesize vitamin C, and so require several grams per day from their diet. That the RDI of Vitamin C is 70mg per day (just enough to prevent acute scurvy most of the time) itself constitutes one of the major causes of disease today, since it guarantees that 99%++ of the population is severely deficient.

Of course, for our brains it's best to eat a fully raw diet consisting mainly of wild fruit and tubers and psychoactive plants, but that is impossible for the vast majority of people; even the fruits to which we do have access do not compare in biochemical richness to the wild fruits which our distant ancestors ate (back before the fall of mankind, as it were). We do, however, have access to thousands of types of herbal extracts and essential metabolites (including 'vitamins'), which we can use to try and bridge that gap.

Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: Anon0123456 on June 28, 2012, 09:12 am
And vitamin C doesn't need a cofactor to be used; Linus Pauling successfully used intravenous synthetic vitamin C to cure cancer, so clearly it's physiologically active.

Good news! I'll go tell all the people dying from cancer...  ::)

Every vitamin needs a cofactor, infact Vitamin C doesn't even get stored in your body, it gets flushed straight out, which is why once you start taking it you need it every day.

It's much much much better to have a balanced diet and active outdoor lifestyle with lots of sunshine etc, you wouldn't get cancer in the first place then. I can guarantee my diet of fruit, vegetables and fish will make me feel a lot better physically and mentally than pizza, pasta, burgers & supplements.

I'm not saying your product  doesn't work, obviously it's going to work, it's giving people exactly what they need exactly when they need it. I'm just saying there's a more natural, healthy alternative if people bother to put in the time. I suppose not everyone has that time luxury however.

Vitamin C is a cofactor, you don't need anything else for it to be utilized. You 'need' to take it every day because humans and other primates who (should) eat a diet consisting almost entirely of fruit cannot synthesize vitamin C, and so require several grams per day from their diet. That the RDI of Vitamin C is 70mg per day (just enough to prevent acute scurvy most of the time) itself constitutes one of the major causes of disease today, since it guarantees that 99%++ of the population is severely deficient.

Of course, for our brains it's best to eat a fully raw diet consisting mainly of wild fruit and tubers and psychoactive plants, but that is impossible for the vast majority of people; even the fruits to which we do have access do not compare in biochemical richness to the wild fruits which our distant ancestors ate (back before the fall of mankind, as it were). We do, however, have access to thousands of types of herbal extracts and essential metabolites (including 'vitamins'), which we can use to try and bridge that gap.

That is fascinating.  Thanks for posting.   :)
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: snipeemfl0 on June 29, 2012, 12:55 am
There are a number of safety risks when taking MDMA, or any drug for that matter.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11888574

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20483717

Also, 250mg+ of MDMA is a high dose, if not borderline overdose; I would recommend avoiding doses that high.

sdesu

I stopped reading at .gov lol
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: deliric on June 29, 2012, 03:08 am
I have always stayed away from molly and ecstasy because I have heard and read many negative things about it's possible long term effects. I know many people insist that it has no negative effects in the long term but I believe some studies have provided evidence to the contrary. Do you guys and gals believe MDMA is safe? and what do you use to back up that belief?
(I don't claim to know anything and am really just interested in what everyone else thinks.)
Peace.

I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't tried MDMA at least once in their life... Oh my god what a feeling.

But yeah, keep it spaced out, 1-2 months at least between rolls.

Safe? Yes, if you know what you're doing.
Worth it? Definitely....
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: MasterS on June 29, 2012, 03:38 am
^ +1
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: Anon0123456 on June 29, 2012, 07:10 am
I have always stayed away from molly and ecstasy because I have heard and read many negative things about it's possible long term effects. I know many people insist that it has no negative effects in the long term but I believe some studies have provided evidence to the contrary. Do you guys and gals believe MDMA is safe? and what do you use to back up that belief?
(I don't claim to know anything and am really just interested in what everyone else thinks.)
Peace.

I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't tried MDMA at least once in their life... Oh my god what a feeling.

But yeah, keep it spaced out, 1-2 months at least between rolls.

Safe? Yes, if you know what you're doing.
Worth it? Definitely....

Agreed. I had the pleasure of my first time being back in the 90s as a teenager in a jacuzzi with some close friends. So amazing lol
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gambino on June 29, 2012, 09:17 am
in response to gambino I just want to say that I actually don't drink alcohol. thanks for all the other feedback, it sounds like overall mdma can be a valuable drugs but is not without risks when used incorrectly, nowhere near the safety of weed (but then again, what is?). I've also heard of people taking 5-url supplements to compendlsate for seratonin deficiency. has anyone seen studies that prove the effectiveness of this?

Dude, why do you think weed is less harmful than MDMA?  You have it backwards.  Cannabis is more harmful than MDMA.  Google "David Nutt Lancet" and read his work if you want to understand something about relative harms. 
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: mrmdma on June 29, 2012, 10:03 am
A lot of people suggest 5-HTP for the comedown but that shit isn't good for your heart. Sure, some of it crosses your blood-brain barrier and gets converted into serotonin. Most of it, though, gets converted into serotonin by your liver which is very bad for your heart. If you want to increase your levels of serotonin (which in turn decreases any, albeit small, risk of neurotoxicity), take an l-Tryptophan supplement after rolling. l-Tryptophan is also a primary precursor to serotonin but it is only converted into serotonin after it has safely crossed the blood-brain barrier, not in the liver.

Honestly, go roll your tits off. Your body will tell you if you're overdoing it.

I totally agree with what you're saying, but from personal experience NO shitty artificial additives help.

Nothing beats lots of meaty protein and dairy foods and sunshine to replenish serotonin:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100412113628AAcMfTw

Think about it, when you get a good nights sleep your normal bodily function is to convert all the melatonin in your brain (sleep chemical) to serotonin (happy chemical) for the next day.

Why do you think people feel so great after lying on the beach all day? Sunlight literally creates serotonin in your brain. Sunbathing the next day after taking MDMA is perfection, trust me.

Also for various reasons I can't be bothered to explain, just taking vitamins alone is pointless, you need the "carriers" to make that vitamin useful, which are usually found alongside the vitamin in the fruit or vegetable or meat it came from. For example you can eat 3 tonnes of Vitamin C, but if you don't have the corresponding carrier found in Oranges etc, then it won't be able to enter your white blood cells, be manipulated by your DNA and become useful for fighting bacteria.

I always thought serotonin is converted into melatonin, but can't be converted back....
Synthetic vitamins don't work that well, there you are completely right although synthetic vitamin C works as an antioxidant, which is still great when taking MDMA to ease the oxidative stress caused by 5-ht(serotonin)depletion in your synapses.

5-htp taken with a strong complex b-vitamin capsule does help significally for me. Yes 5-htp can be harmful when used daily, but when taken few times in a month or tops once a week the possible harms should be tolerable. You can always go with l-tryptophan though.
All in all 5-htp is relatively to use and I would prefer it any day over an SSRI to treat mild depression. It is the leading drug for depression in Japan.


My special mourning after MDMA breakfast consists of a strong vitamin B capsule
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-B-100-250-Capsules/395
accompanied with 100mg of 5-htp, eggs & bacon, fruits and juice. Sometimes fruit is the only thing I can get down though as animal products smell so harsh after taking an amphetamine :)

Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: scaredpanda on June 29, 2012, 10:32 pm
I have always stayed away from molly and ecstasy because I have heard and read many negative things about it's possible long term effects. I know many people insist that it has no negative effects in the long term but I believe some studies have provided evidence to the contrary. Do you guys and gals believe MDMA is safe? and what do you use to back up that belief?
(I don't claim to know anything and am really just interested in what everyone else thinks.)
Peace.

I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't tried MDMA at least once in their life... Oh my god what a feeling.

But yeah, keep it spaced out, 1-2 months at least between rolls.

Safe? Yes, if you know what you're doing.
Worth it? Definitely....

Totally agree. If there's one thing I could recommend everyone experience, even just one, it would be doing MDMA. A +1 for you, sir.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: four2o on June 30, 2012, 06:30 am
From everything I've read it seems like MDMA is relatively safe assuming the following criteria is met:

-It's used in moderation. In other words, give it the proper respect it deserves. Personally, I'd say no more than five times a year but I'm sure some will vehemently disagree with me here.
-You have no underlying/untreated health conditions. (e.g. heart disease, high blood pressure, etc.)
-You keep yourself aware of how much liquid you've consumed. In other words, be sure to stay hydrated but also keep track of how much liquid you're consuming -- too much water can lead to hyponatremia which can be fatal. I wouldn't worry about this too much though -- it's very rare and it's more important that you keep hydrated.
-You're certain the chemical you're consuming is in fact MDMA.
-You're aware of all the drug interactions with it.

If you abide by the rules above you can pretty much be certain you'll be "safer" than most while consuming it. However, it should be noted that we still don't fully understand the long-term effects of MDMA so there definitely is a slight risk to consuming it. With that being said, I'd be willing to bet MDMA is still far safer than driving your car to work everyday.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: MDDude on June 30, 2012, 12:19 pm
in response to gambino I just want to say that I actually don't drink alcohol. thanks for all the other feedback, it sounds like overall mdma can be a valuable drugs but is not without risks when used incorrectly, nowhere near the safety of weed (but then again, what is?). I've also heard of people taking 5-url supplements to compendlsate for seratonin deficiency. has anyone seen studies that prove the effectiveness of this?

Dude, why do you think weed is less harmful than MDMA?  You have it backwards.  Cannabis is more harmful than MDMA.  Google "David Nutt Lancet" and read his work if you want to understand something about relative harms.

that makes nosense.ofcourse is weed less harmful then mdma. do you know why mdma is neurotoxic then you should know that weed can´t be that neurotoxic...pharmacologic seen
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gambino on June 30, 2012, 04:53 pm
in response to gambino I just want to say that I actually don't drink alcohol. thanks for all the other feedback, it sounds like overall mdma can be a valuable drugs but is not without risks when used incorrectly, nowhere near the safety of weed (but then again, what is?). I've also heard of people taking 5-url supplements to compendlsate for seratonin deficiency. has anyone seen studies that prove the effectiveness of this?

Dude, why do you think weed is less harmful than MDMA?  You have it backwards.  Cannabis is more harmful than MDMA.  Google "David Nutt Lancet" and read his work if you want to understand something about relative harms.

that makes nosense.ofcourse is weed less harmful then mdma. do you know why mdma is neurotoxic then you should know that weed can´t be that neurotoxic...pharmacologic seen

I'll bet you didn't even look at Dr. Nutt's article in the Lancet before saying that my statement makes no sense.  Did you?  I guess you  know better than medical science.  Let me let you in on a little secret that's not so secret to many people: neurotoxicity is not the only possible drug harm.  Besides that, there are still a lot of unanswered questions about the possible neurotoxicity of MDMA.  That said, in terms of relative harms, according to Nutt's Lancet paper, MDMA is less harmful than cannabis.  Sorry to say medical science hasn't affirmed your preconceived notions.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: MasterS on June 30, 2012, 06:58 pm
I tried gaining access to the article but not paying a site for full access to verify his scientific approach. A scholarly article isn't conclusive, it is a presentation of observed information. I've read countless journals where their conclusion was not based in scientific observation with one variable. It's their impression based on data with more variables than they are able to control. That doesn't make it fact or verified. Please don't take a source and present it as undeniable fact. Science is about repeated studies verifying facts. Not hey this smart guy said something it must be true. Hence debated topics like string theory or the cause of global warming, different observation of facts without repeatable verification. Sorry your view of scholarly articles doesn't follow the principles of science.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gambino on June 30, 2012, 08:40 pm
I tried gaining access to the article but not paying a site for full access to verify his scientific approach. A scholarly article isn't conclusive, it is a presentation of observed information. I've read countless journals where their conclusion was not based in scientific observation with one variable. It's their impression based on data with more variables than they are able to control. That doesn't make it fact or verified. Please don't take a source and present it as undeniable fact. Science is about repeated studies verifying facts. Not hey this smart guy said something it must be true. Hence debated topics like string theory or the cause of global warming, different observation of facts without repeatable verification. Sorry your view of scholarly articles doesn't follow the principles of science.

I never said anything was conclusive or fact.  Maybe you need to re-read what I wrote.  I'm pointing to one pretty well-respected example of a scientific finding that MDMA is less harmful than cannabis.  Show me one that indicates the opposite.

Note that I was responding to multiple assertions in this thread, with absolutely *zero* presented in the way of proof, that weed is less harmful than MDMA.  People saying shit like, MDMA is "nowhere near the safety of weed" and "ofcourse (sic) weed less harmful then mdma".  And the fact is, that the most current science (Nutt) says the opposite.

BTW, here's the Lancet paper, available for free: hxxp://www.tomfeiling.com/archive/reclassification_of_drugs.pdf

People can believe whatever they want.  I'm just trying to point to some facts here to help inform some people.  All I'm getting back is argument because apparently there's a lot of potheads here who don't want to hear that their beloved weed is more harmful than MDMA.  Well to those potheads, I say: Relax.  At least weed is a lot less harmful than alcohol!  (Oh shit, now I'm gonna get blasted by the drunks.)
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gtgeorgz on June 30, 2012, 10:33 pm
Does anyone know if you take 5HTP supplement for a few days BEFORE you roll, but then STOP taking all 5htp after 24hrs before you roll, does it increase the effects of mdma?
what about pre-loading on L-Tyrosine? I heard it increases the available dopamine within the brain that mdma can use, increasing the stimulant, body buzz effect of mdma?
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: breathe on July 02, 2012, 04:19 am
I've done it twice and never had any kind of hangover. I still wouldn't class it as "healthy" though.

I once gave a dude some MDMA and he was loving it so much that he said he could see why it's illegal. I didn't say this but I remember thinking the exact opposite my first time, "why is would something this good be illegal? everyone should try this!"
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: advanced motion on July 03, 2012, 12:17 am
There is plenty of information out there, but the general consensus is that mdma (not ecstasy- which could be any number of things) is safe when taken in a controlled environment, with proper supervision.
There was one of our health officers out in BC who had an article in one of the papers recently:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/pure-ecstasy-can-be-safe-if-consumed-responsibly-bc-health-officer/article4258230/

Now, they mean by a professional in a healthcare setting. But that's typically not how we do.

There are risks, but they are well manageable for sensible people who are well informed with good intentions.

Of all the things I've ever done (not just drugs; actions, anything!) there is NOTHING that's been as beneficial to me. My life dramatically improved. But this may not happen to everyone. Please, just practice safe harm reduction if you go for it. 

Oh, and re. David McNutt: MDMA ranked 17 out of 20 drugs when compared in terms of their harms, below No.1-rated alcohol, and other drugs including heroin, cocaine, tobacco, pot and steroids, according to a U.K. analysis published in The Lancet in 2010.
From the same article.

Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: MasterS on July 03, 2012, 01:09 am
The pdf linked I read a cute 7 pages. It gave no data for me to critique. They state in the paper that MDMA has a lower physical harm score because it is relatively new and they must use lab tested studies for their data. I did not agree to the mean physical harm they gave cannabis because it does not correlate to the many studies contrary to their high numbers. Honestly, it isn't that far below alcohol.
I have a patient who suffers from severe chrons who works with his GI doctor treating his condition through only cannabis means. He was on chemo pills for years and the transition to cannabis has been documented in his case and many I've worked with to be more beneficial to his health than the other pharmacy drugs.
The point; the high rating that bumped cannabis a bit higher than MDMA must be using limited or incorrect studies  (If not I would love to review them) and their admittance to the limited data they had on the harm of ecstasy which newer journals have published studies that lead to more questions on the impact on serotonin levels in the brain and the possible receptor deficiencies.
No drug is harmless because in the nature of a drug it is affecting our CNS. They can be used in a beneficial way that overshadows the limited harm caused from responsible application, and for that reason I am pro drug. For escapism, self harm, or harm to others, I do not agree with its use.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: gambino on July 03, 2012, 11:45 pm
For escapism, self harm, or harm to others, I do not agree with its use.

Wait, lemme get this straight.  You don't agree with drug use for escapism?  I don't know a single person who doesn't use one drug or another for escapism. Hell, many people do other more harmful things for escapism, like sky diving.  Is that okay with you?  I guess it's okay with you to go to the beach but only for medicinal purposes, not for escapism. LOL.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: MasterS on July 04, 2012, 01:36 am
You seem to mistake my philosophical ideal for a narrow minded and  judgmental view which isn't accurate. That is what your reaction portrayed however.
Also we obviously don't view escapism the same. Escapism is to distraction from reality, that doesn't mean doing something that alters reality to better yourself is escapism. Scoff at your own ideology because your downward view of mine is glaring ignorance.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: Ahoyhoy on July 12, 2012, 09:49 pm
preload and postload with 5-HTP, magnesium and vit C and you'll be ok. Also, don't take any more frequently than 5 - 6 weeks to allow your serotonin levels to re-establish themselves.
Title: Re: MDMA Safety
Post by: 4903kmn1d on July 13, 2012, 12:52 am
Interesting thread :) there's a lot of interesting topics at http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/forums/22-Ecstasy-Discussion if you're interested in mdma HR.