Silk Road forums
Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Phil198022 on March 25, 2012, 06:41 am
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Just in case - which I really don't hope - a package gets caught up in customs and you are charged with import of say some amount like 3 grams of Cocaine (just an arbitrary example), or 50 pills of mdma or whatever, so basically an amount that can be realistically considered for your own consumption, but that isn't negligible either, in which case the law suit would probably be dropped alll together, what are the realistic penalties one can expect in the EU if you have no prior convictions, above 21 years old? Of course in the case of customs you could always refuse to accept the letter and say you didn't order whatever it is and know nothing about it.
Still, in the case of possession are we talking about a financial penalty, perhaps some social hours, psychiatric evaluation etc. OR a short jail sentence? After all, in addition to possession in no small amount (like 20 consumption units or so) you have gone against import laws, which I assume aggravates the crime in the eyes of the state leaders and judicial system. Anybody have any idea what is approximately to be expected in the rather unlikely case one is apprehended with importing by mail say 3 grams of coke, or meth, or any other drug below the "night geringe Menge" ("no small amount" = amounts that exceed the amounts listed in the table below) at which point one would probably go to jail I guess?
Here is a list (don't know if it's up to date), with which amounts in Germany one still is under the amount where possession with intent to distribute is assumed, so basically larger scale personal consumption is assumed up to:
Heroin: 1,5 g HHCL
Haschisch / Marihuana: 7,5 g THC
Kokain: 5 g Kokainhydrochlorid
Amphetamin: 10 g Amphetaminbase
LSD: 6 mg Lysergsäurediäthylamid oder 300 Konsumeinheiten
Morphin: 4,5 g Morphinhydrochlorid
MDMA: 30 g MDMA-Base oder 250 Konsumeinheiten
MDE/MDEA: 30 g MDE-Base, entspricht 35 g MDE-Hydrochlorid
I would assume for first time offenses one would get away with a financial penalty, yet if I look at certain law texts from German like the following, they sound kind of scary:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/btmg_1981/__29a.html
"§ 29a Straftaten
(1) Mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter einem Jahr wird bestraft, wer
....
2. Betäubungsmitteln in nicht geringer Menge...sie besitzt, ohne sie auf Grund einer Erlaubnis nach § 3 Abs. 1 erlangt zu haben.
(2) In minder schweren Fällen ist die Strafe Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren."
Translated in short (I left out some irrelevant parts):
"you will be jailed for not under one year if you possess narcotics above a "geringe Menge" ("small amount", which refers to basically 1 or 2 consumption units, like maybe 0,5 g of Cocaine as an example) without having permission to do so.
In less severe cases the jail sentence stretches from 3 months to 5 years(!)."
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And even more problematic
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/btmg_1981/__30.html
"§ 30 Straftaten
(1) Mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter zwei Jahren wird bestraft, wer
........................
4. Betäubungsmittel in nicht geringer Menge ohne Erlaubnis nach § 3 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 einführt.
(2) In minder schweren Fällen ist die Strafe Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren."
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Roughly translated
"Felonies
(1) with prison sentences not under two years will be punished.....
......
4. Somebody who imports no small amount... (again "small amount" refers to an amount for daily consumption, impractical and expensive to order, plus more risky, since you would have to place a large number of orders, which increases the chance of one of them being intercepted)...of narcotics without permission." 【I mean importing is a lot about what SR is about】.
"In less severe cases (I guess no prior convictions, ordered only for self consumption) the jail sentence will be from 3 months to 5 years."
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It's not only about spending 3 months in jail (in which I have no interest), but also the repercussions, like if you look for a job afterwards and have to tell your employer I spent time in jail for drug felonies. Now I don't want to increase paranoia etc. among the SR people. Still, anybody have any idea what realistic penalties are to be expected in the EU for import and possession of no small amounts (e.g. 3 grams of coke or meth) that are clearly meant for personal consumption with no prior convictions? The import part would probably be hard to prove because of Tor anonymity, you could always say you bought it at some local pub, so we would just be stuck with possession in no small amount nor in an amount that looks like intent to distribute.
Again, I don't want to create panic, I have bought stuff in China before, where I would have probably landed for several years in a laogai hard labour camp, if they had caught me and I generally consider law enforcement to be for the most part some fat, bureaucratic government officials who enjoy bullying people around, try to avoid work and therefore go for easy targets like some small time corner dealers, people who park on the wrong side of the road or people who mow their lawns on Sunday (forbidden in German) all the while looking forward to their next doughnut or pizza lunches and their pensions in 28 years.
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In Austria the law is nearly the same, but there is a really important parts.
Which makes it lower..
But now the most important part.
If you deal with drugs you get...
§ 27 SMG :D :D :D
Mit einer Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder mit einer Geldstrafe bis zu 360 Tagessätzen wird bestraft, wer vorschriftswidrig
Suchtgift erwirbt, besitzt, erzeugt, befördert, einführt, ausführt oder einem anderen anbietet, überlässt oder verschafft,
Opiummohn, den Kokastrauch oder die Cannabispflanze zum Zweck der Suchtgiftgewinnung anbaut oder
psilocin-, psilotin- oder psilocybinhältige Pilze einem anderen anbietet, überlässt, verschafft oder zum Zweck des Suchtgiftmittelgebrauches anbaut.
Wer jedoch die Straftat ausschließlich zum persönlichen Gebrauch begeht, ist mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu sechs Monaten oder mit Geldstrafe bis zu 360 Tagessätzen zu bestrafen. Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren ist zu bestrafen, wer diese Straftaten gewerbsmäßig begeht.
Mit einer Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren ist zu bestrafen, wer
durch eine Straftat nach Abs 1. Z 1 oder 2 einem Minderjährigen den Gebrauch von Suchtmitteln ermöglicht und selbst volljährig und mehr als zwei Jahre älter als der Minderjährige ist oder
eine solche Tat als Mitglied einer kriminellen Vereinigung begeht.
BUT NOW THE BEST THING ON THIS LAW: ;D ;D ;D ;D
Wer jedoch an Suchtmittel gewöhnt ist und eine Straftat nach Abs. 3 oder Abs. 4 Z 2 vorwiegend deshalb begeht, um sich für seinen persönlichen Gebrauch Suchtmittel oder Mittel zu deren Erwerb zu beschaffen, ist nur mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr zu bestrafen. (BGBl I 2007/110)
If you deal and you are addicted you don´t get more than 1 year prison and i personal know in 70% every cases you only have to go to a drug therapy!
For one year they observed a H dealer ring! One of them was the supplier from a friend and the police busted him and other.
The Police known that he sold about and his supplier sold about 30kg. His supplier used H and was addicted, but he never tried it.
They found nothing without thc in his blood.
He got 4,5 year for selling 10kg H and his supplier with 30kg got 7 month in an closed drug psychiatry!
In Austria drug-addict is a psychical illness and psychical patients don´t belong to prison!
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Yes it´s clear there are many parts, if you are a big drug gangster boss you could go for 30 years.
To the rest of Europe Austria has a strong drug law!
Don´t know how it´s is in other country's but this part is very special !!
Clear you can´t say you are weed addict and that´s the reason why you deal.
But with coke and H it works every time without a good lawyer.
Than the sent you to a doc and he know who is addict. Make tests etc..
The craziness is the difference on this law. There is no part how much you can deal.
If they would write everything up to a kg is up to a year for addicted persons!
For 30kg H you would go 10 years to prison and if you use H you only get up to one year.
The supplier from a good friend only soled 50g-100g H to people.
But my friend knows this supplier since he was a child.
That´s the reason why i know everything about this case.
The supplier from this supplier and 2 more people only got 7month
in a drug clinic. Ok they can´t go out from there but it´s not like prison.
It´s like an hospital.
The supplier from me and my friend got 4,5 years for a much lower thing.
That´s unbelievable....
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Like Moz said, were i live it depends also wich lawyer you have. The first time i was cought and did time was with heroine 21.5 gr. I was just 2 weeks 19y old and first you have to go to the prosecutor and he desides if you go to prison or you get a warning. I got prison because i was stopped by the police before and then i had just 0.7gr or so. That was a warning and i had to go to do my story and they let me go. But now they said i had intensions off dealing, but it was realy my own stash!!! But they didn't believe me. So after the first 5 days in prison you have to go to the 'Raadkamer" were they deside to let you go or go back to prison. I got back to prison for 1 month they said and then come back. When i got back in prison i called my father for a lawyer (i had to pay for myself my parents just loan me the money). After 1 month i go back and i was free because the cops didn't find proof on my sellphone if i had costumers + the 21.5gr heroine was not packed in seals to sell + i got out if i followed a program to get clean. And if i did another mistake in the following 3 years then i must go back to prison and sit my time out wich was 4 months normaly. After 3.5 Years i did 4 months time again but that had nothing to do with dope. Also oure laws are confusing, like with weed. You can't grow it, import it, buy it...but iff they catch you and its under 5 gr, then they just take it. But that don't make any sense?? If you can't buy it or grow it, how do you get the weed then??? Very confusing here but under the 5gr, they leave you alone, they just take it. WTF?? I think those that make those laws are using dope themself or so :D Welcome to my country!!! JUST LEGALIZE ALL DOPE!! Let their be paying tax on it and then you know what you get also without any dangerous cutting materials in it. Is good for the economie + less people would be taking dope when the years pass + the most crime in the drugs bizz would be gone, instead of all the violence in some country's just for getting territory to sell dope.
Ps : Sorry for my bad English.
Greeetttzz
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http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/countries
WoW interesting site...thx