Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: jpisbetterthanme on February 04, 2012, 07:09 am
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Suppose you are prescribed, say, adderall and ... idk, some Painkiller X.... and... no, leave it at that.
Example dose, 2x20mg adderall a day + 3xPainkiller X a day .... So ::counts fingers:: 80 Adderall and .. ... .. 113 Painkiller X
Now suppose you decide "Eff Doctors - Im'a hit da Black Market!" and come to SR (for all your pharmacy needs).
Upon arriving there, you discover that 20mg Adderall - which you get 80 of for about $130 - go for ~$12 a piece and that Painkiller X - which you get 113 of for about 80 bucks - goes for between 10-30 a piece......
So total cost of Adderall: 12x80 = 960
Total cost of Painkiller X: 113x20 = 2260
^^ THAT.
Is ridiculous.
Now my question is this: would it make sense to buy, say, a gram of meth for and a gram of heroin and break it into ludicrously small doses like this:
Meth: 100x10mg oral doses
Herron: 50x20mg not-IV doses
(Dosages are basically pulled outta me bum from looking at estimates on Erowid)
?
Or is that ridiculous?
10mg Meth = 20mg Adderall?
20mg Herron = 30mg Roxi?
Oh, and PS, those prices above are accurate... I actually had a prescription for 90x20mg Adderall and 90x30mg Roxicodone and I would get both for ~220...... And dont even friggin get me started on Xanax; CVS sells 60 of them to my friend for <$15 and people on SR are charging over $3 each pill ....... Pill Slingers are making a FORTUNE off of you. . .Honestly? Shame on you, Pill Slingers.
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I can't comment as far as the conversion rates, but as far as the prices of pills go, that's simple supply and demand. There is a lower supply of pills for SR compared to pharmacies, which drives prices higher, and there is higher demand for pills on SR than in doctors' offices, which also drives prices higher. You might have the luxury of being able to go to a doctor who will write you a scrip, but people looks for pills on SR don't. You also have to take into account the cost of that doctor visit, which is not accounted for in pharmacy prices but is usually added into street/SR prices. Finally there's the added risk that comes with the illegality of having these pills without a prescription, which carries a substantial premium.
The price is only too high if no one is willing to pay.
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All good points, but . . . I think a lot of the supply/demand curve here is tainted by ignorance. People just don't know that the pills can be cheap.
Example . . . The psych pills came from a free doctor. They're actually not mine but I've done the following many many times before for psych meds (Adderall, Xanax, etc):
-Figure out what pills you want
-Figure out what condition they treat
-Go find the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for said conditions
-Tell the doctor that^
-Get cheap drugs
-When you recycle everyone wins
As far as the pain meds go .... I only wish it were that simple; I was actually in a car accident and legitimately prescribed those meds. Ouch=/
AAAAANYway the real question here was about whether it'd be effective to make the doses I indicated.
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wait, I don't understand what you're asking lol....
Are you asking if It would make sense to split up meth/heroin into bite size pieces to abuse yourself?
or to resell to people?
or are you thinking about selling the addies/roxi to fund a meth/heroin addiction?
or are you asking why people are buying pills when they could have meth or heroin?
whatever you're asking, people buying the pills usually graduate to powders. It's like going from middleschool to highschool. I don't go around asking 6th graders why they aren't going to the prom or planning for college. That's because 6th graders don't give a fuck about college or proms yet. 6th graders like pokemon because that's what they know. Same goes with people taking pills - they don't give a fuq if meth or heroin is stronger or cheaper - they like where they're at because pills are what they know.
For the people that stuck to the pills and never graduated to powders when they decided to go sober - God Bless them folks.
Once you get in bed with the powders, it's game over. You can kiss being productive goodbye. And that middleschool ----> highschool thing? starts all over again - except this time it goes: Oral, snorting, smoking, injecting. For the folks that never graduate to injecting - God bless em.
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No.
I'm not talking about abusing anything.
I'm talking about use, not abuse.... And I suppose that is the question. Is that possible with these Big Bad Nasty Powdery Drugs?
If I go on SR and buy 1g of meth, is that the exact same shit that's in Desoxyn?
Ditto her'ron . . . What dosage of these could I put into capsules and use medicinally (vs recreational)?
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I'm talking about use, not abuse.... And I suppose that is the question. Is that possible with these Big Bad Nasty Powdery Drugs?
yeah it's possible if you have a higher power governing your actions. Like priests that practice celibacy.. and nuns.
Meth/heroin/coke is like the highschool teacher you whacked off to in the bathroom. This time though, she's caught you whackin off and wants to do you in every position - and also tape it so you can watch it over and over again in private. You can say "no" anytime you want to - but you won't - because you're not a priest or a nun. Sometimes even a higher power cannot protect you from female rapists.
From then on, everytime you see that teacher, you're going to get flashing images of her naked body and you're gonna wanna bang-bang again. All you have to do is wink and she'll throw herself at you. But wait! you found out that she's available anytime and anywhere. Now you can bang before school, after school, after dinner, before bed, and early in the morning.
That's the best analogy I can give you. 99% of the time if the drug is there and in your face and there's no one else around and you're bored as hell - you won't be able to say no. Welcome to drug abuse.
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S. . . . So no, then?
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@seirfmuy
Really good analogy! and was a good read too.
...but now i'm horny
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@ bionic
LOL that's exactly why I didn't give a completely serious response . . . . That was like the most graphically sexual response ever. Don't get me wrong, it was The Shit and all and I think the analogy is brilliant but ......................... uh holy shit that guy needed to get laid, LOLGASM
it was like "METH ? yeah that shit is addictive. let me tell you how addicted. I WILL TAKE MY LONG HARD THROOOOBBBING MEMBER IN MY HAND AND PULL YOU CLOSER, BREATHING UPON YOUR SPECTACLES, UNTIL YOU WERE CLOSE ENOUGH SO THAT I COULD blahblahblahblahwordswordswordswords" (ten million words later) ".......And THEN you'll most likely want to do it again. Unless you are friggin Jesus or sumshit. Which you're not. Pussy. ................... MMMMM PUSSY. KNOW WHAT I'D DO WITH THAT???? I WOULD TAKE IT AND I WOULD SLIDE UP TO IT AND TAKE THIS HEAD OF LETTUCE AND blahblahblahwordswordswords" (fifteen million words later) ".......AND FUCKING SHIT! *THAT* IS WHY YOU SHOULDNT EVER EVER EVER USE DRUGS IN POWDER FORM................................oh, and by the way, on a lighter note, I WILL TAKE MY ---"
//// jpisbetterthanme reads alll twelve billion of the twelve billion words that follows that jibbajabba ////
//// jpisbetterthanme reads several of poster's other posts and realizes that he does, in fact, have a taste for some powders, including the METH ////
//// jpisbetterthanme considers where he is reading this info ////
//// jpisbetterthanme realizes this guy is prrrrrrrobbbably on some powder of some sort /////
//// jpisbetterhtanme realizes that the ridiculous concentration of HARDCORE PORN in poster's post likely indicates a stimulant of some sort ////
//// jpisbetterthanme figures out that "holy shit that Powder X could turn me into something like THAT" ////
//// jpisbetterthanme considers ////
//// jpisbetterthanme : "AWESOME!!!!!!!!!" ////
//// jpisbetterthanme proceeds with previously-set course as if he DIDN'T already have a ridiculous libido ////
//// jpisbetterthanme's girlfriend reaps the REWARDS ///
//// jpisbetterthanme: [ //// THUMBS UP //// ] :D ////
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@ funway (or whoever wants to answer?)
How true is the 'youre gonna lose a lot of it' maxim ? If you were looking to relieve the HYPOTHETICAL pain of two HYPOTHETICAL herniated discs, how much HYPOTHETICAL her'ron would you say would work? Took about 45mg of non-hypothetical roxi to make it go away (non-hypothetical cus I had a Rx :) ) ... I know you don't lose ALL of it by eating it .. .
If you were me and you had those HYPOTHETICAL herniated discs and you were trying to MEDICATE with her'ron without actually getting high, what would you do (besides "not doing her'ron" and/or "just IV amount X.XXXXXXXXXX" cus needles and judgement are poo)? .... SO basically if you're snorting it or smoking it .....
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I too am struggling with stingy docs and ridiculous SR prices to try and obtain medication. First off, jumping from adderall to meth is not something I would recommend. Personally, from what I have read/experienced, meth is one of the most damaging drugs to your body and is even neurotoxic (and I at least half way know what I am talking about). If you want a powder more similar to adderall it would be the amphetamine paste ("speed") that people are selling, given adderall is just 4 various amphetamine forms.
One thing to consider is the powders will be of unknown and varying quality, while pharms are of known and consistent potency. They are not pure, so you will have to take that into consideration when dosing.
You may be able to use H as a painkiller, since diacetylmorphine is used medically for terminally ill patients, but you surely are likely to become addicted, at least physically. But you are certainly already physically addicted to the oxycodone... The only problem is it will not last nearly as long as OC, so you will have to dose more frequently. Orally, it will last longer but will use more product given the decreased bio-availability. If you do try it, you should start with snorting the tiniest match head sized bumps until you find the relief you need. Be extremely careful obviously, and always test EVERY new batch of anything with the tiniest bit to be safe, even less than you know you need, just to be sure and work your way up. Then next time you will know how much you need.
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Lol, all DARE did was make me want to try drugs.
You made a claim that you will lose alot more H if you take it orally. PLEASE stop making claims without providing a reference.
First, I never compared it to amphetamine in regards to neurotoxicity so accuse me accurately. The fact that methamphetamine induces striatal dopamine depletions indicative of neurotoxicity is a well known fact among the scientific community and really doesnt warrant me to provide a source because if you took your own time to research the chemical you would quickly find a plethora of information on the topic, including how meth is used in scientific models to cause neuronal damage. It also increases the permeability of the blood brain barrier and makes one more susceptible to infiltration by infected monocytes interestingly.
1) JPET March 1994 vol. 268 no. 3 1571-1580
2) http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0006-8993(09)90007-5
3) March 1, 2006 The FASEB Journal vol. 20 no. 3 571-573
4) DOI: 10.1046/j.1471-4159.1996.67062443.x
5) The Journal of Neuroscience, 15 October 2000, 20(20): 7838-7845;
6) The Journal of Neuroscience, 1 January 2002, 22(1): 274-283;
7) DOI: 10.1046/j.1471-4159.2001.00339.x
8) The Journal of Neuroscience, 15 October 2002, 22(20): 8951-8960;
9) DOI: 10.1080/15216540410001727699
The last one is about MDMA too, which I will also claim to be at least slightly neurotoxic...
PLEASE now provide references backing your claims, especially that meth is not more neurotoxic than amphetamine. I would be interested to read such papers.
Thank you,
- microRiboNucleicAcid
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@microRNA:
First up, I find it ridiculously amusing for some reason to think that your post actually came from my RNA :)
Yes I'm aware I'm not a virus, mostly (microRNA is only in virii, right?)
ANYWAY .. This:
1- Speed: I am a'scared of ordering "speed" off SR. For starters, I am not willing to take the risk of getting it sent through customs and all the sellers are in the EU (just confirmed this again - Germany and the Netherlands). That seems like a surefire way to either get the order taken by customs or get my dumb ass arrested. I would love to do that though - the crazy customer appeciation sale had Heisenberg's meth for $100/g and that was a stupidly low price. Can get like 5g+ of reggalarass amphetamine from the EU for that much. .. Also for some reason "amphetamine paste" to me just sounds like it could be absolutely anything. Adderall is a bunch of kinds of amphetamine salts mixed together but, for instance, one of the things listed now is amphetamine phosphate. .... That's not one of the four.
Anyhow, if it were in the US I'd probably jump at it, though. I never really looked into it enough to know what kind of dosages I'd be dealing with but I'm pretty sure 5g of amphetamine would be like a years supply for me:D
2- Neurotoxicity of meth: Eek, yes @that. Plus from what I've heard from several reliable sources (i.e., not DARE:)), you really CAN smoke meth once and get addicted... And from what I've heard from lots of other sources who seem to be trustworthy (including one person here) it's difficult if not impossible to have meth and NOT try smoking it. I can see that.
What I can't understand, though, is how all this stuff can be true and Desoxyn can still be dispensed by pharmacies...? If having it in the room somehow (osmosis?) automatically turns everyone into a skin-picking dick-sucking crazy person, what makes it different if doctors give it to you? Obviously that doesn't happen with Desoxyn. From what I understand you can be treated for an extended period of time with Desoxyn if under a doctor's supervision.
I used to think it was because the shit you would get on the street is made by mixing poison together and it was the process itself that led to those horrible outcomes - impure product > impure human test subject. But apparently not. So wtf!? ///boggle!///
3- Test dose of the her'ron: Dosage = small match head size bump, but I should start by testing an even smaller amount? Or is that match head sized bump the smaller dose you mean? I've got another thread about trying to figure out what a small dosage (e.g. 10-15mg) of powder looks like here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=11161.0;topicseen
Same question, really ... I'm trying to figure out if my idea is a terrible one. It's either like the time I bought a friend's dead computer to get the parts out and ended up getting a video card worth more than I paid for the computer OR the time I bought a friend's dead laptop thinking I'd cannibalize it for parts only to find it was one of those laptops that you can't really take apart at all (who the fuck solders RAM?!) ... IE either a pretty good idea and a way to save a few bucks or the worst idea ever:)
@funway
1- Re: Crazily neurotoxic meth: No, he really is right. Want a source? Kay, this:
http://www.if-pan.krakow.pl/pjp/pdf/2009/6_966.pdf
Or this:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.2009.02564.x/abstract;jsessionid=CB6A3D659A71B73232F49506A6D64634.d03t02
Or go to the Wikipedia article for meth and search for "neurotoxic" and see for yourself. It's very very very well documented.
2- Re: other ADD medications - that's another thing I'm wondering about.. I did use them responsibly for years. Most of my life, actually - I took "something" for ADD as a kid (mom doesn't remember what) and since I've been an adult, just Adderall.. Except for the month when Vyvanse came out and I got it for free. Just one month though.
But I've also snorted it/used it to stay up all night/whatever... Of course I have - I've been taking it for soooooo long. If you were taking medicinal marijuana for some chronic condition for over a decade, wouldn't it be safe to say you smoked an irresponsible amount just to get high a few times?
Ditto the painkillers... Of course I've gotten high off them before. You don't have Roxi around for like three or four years in constant supply without ever getting high off it, you know?
In short, I'd say I was taking these drugs responsibly, yes. I wouldn't shoot the other stuff because I have seen people go down that road and it kicks your ass right away, so I'm scared like a wuss of IV.. But if I have these capsules with a small amount of heroin / meth in them to treat pain / ADD and I take one when I need it - stretched out over an indefinite period of time, not like a daily or even weekly thing - I think it can last for a long time.
Goal = figure out if that is fucking impossible. Note, "impossible" not "difficult" ... Obviously it'll take some self-control but I've learned a lot about that from the School Of Hard Knocks.
So what do you think ? Impossible? People seem pretty evenly divided... And it sucks that I went through that fucking DARE program as a kid because as much as I learn about shit I still in the back of my head can't help but think you can try something once and get addicted to the point where you are on the street sucking dick and nicking cars in like a week even though I rationally know that is bullshit...... Roar @ conditioning/brainwashing. Especially roar @ doing it in a way that makes kids WANT to take drugs. "DONT SMOKE WEED YOU WILL FEEL GREAT" wtf.
And now I see that you both responded again on the post. But I'm not gonna go back and edit my own shit out ! So there!
But
@ mRNA part 2
Holy shit @ BBB and infiltration by infected monocytes! Try 5mg of meth and in one week you will be on the street sucking dick and stealing cars AND you'll have friggin bugs in your brain and shit! :o
@ funway part 2
I can't really comment on 'speed paste' because I honestly still don't really have a grasp on what the fuck that is exactly. That just makes me think of a five year old eating elmers glue and then snorting a bunch of NO-DoZ for some reason :)
"But I do know this . . . That was the longest conversation I've ever had. ..... Goodbye, mailbox."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Pv_n044vM
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I'm talking about use, not abuse.... And I suppose that is the question. Is that possible with these Big Bad Nasty Powdery Drugs?
yeah it's possible if you have a higher power governing your actions. Like priests that practice celibacy.. and nuns.
Meth/heroin/coke is like the highschool teacher you whacked off to in the bathroom. This time though, she's caught you whackin off and wants to do you in every position - and also tape it so you can watch it over and over again in private. You can say "no" anytime you want to - but you won't - because you're not a priest or a nun. Sometimes even a higher power cannot protect you from female rapists.
From then on, everytime you see that teacher, you're going to get flashing images of her naked body and you're gonna wanna bang-bang again. All you have to do is wink and she'll throw herself at you. But wait! you found out that she's available anytime and anywhere. Now you can bang before school, after school, after dinner, before bed, and early in the morning.
That's the best analogy I can give you. 99% of the time if the drug is there and in your face and there's no one else around and you're bored as hell - you won't be able to say no. Welcome to drug abuse.
I fucking love reading your posts...BRAVO
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Suppose you are prescribed, say, adderall and ... idk, some Painkiller X.... and... no, leave it at that.
Example dose, 2x20mg adderall a day + 3xPainkiller X a day .... So ::counts fingers:: 80 Adderall and .. ... .. 113 Painkiller X
Now suppose you decide "Eff Doctors - Im'a hit da Black Market!" and come to SR (for all your pharmacy needs).
Upon arriving there, you discover that 20mg Adderall - which you get 80 of for about $130 - go for ~$12 a piece and that Painkiller X - which you get 113 of for about 80 bucks - goes for between 10-30 a piece......
So total cost of Adderall: 12x80 = 960
Total cost of Painkiller X: 113x20 = 2260
^^ THAT.
Is ridiculous.
Now my question is this: would it make sense to buy, say, a gram of meth for and a gram of heroin and break it into ludicrously small doses like this:
Meth: 100x10mg oral doses
Herron: 50x20mg not-IV doses
(Dosages are basically pulled outta me bum from looking at estimates on Erowid)
?
Or is that ridiculous?
10mg Meth = 20mg Adderall?
20mg Herron = 30mg Roxi?
Oh, and PS, those prices above are accurate... I actually had a prescription for 90x20mg Adderall and 90x30mg Roxicodone and I would get both for ~220...... And dont even friggin get me started on Xanax; CVS sells 60 of them to my friend for <$15 and people on SR are charging over $3 each pill ....... Pill Slingers are making a FORTUNE off of you. . .Honestly? Shame on you, Pill Slingers.
Im so fucking tempted to sell pills now.
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has anyone mentioned the fact that when you're consuming pills you are getting drugs made in what basically equates to a government regulated lab? I guess this is an apples and onions kind of discussion topic.
My propaganda controlled brain generally feels 'safer' eating product made from a non underground lab... even if it is more expensive.
This isn't to say that there are no incredibly high potency high purity H/meth (especially on this site). I just figure if I am going to be using a drug daily/semi daily I want some "Quality Assurance"
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@ funway
Thank you for your response!
Re: Speed paste - thank you for clarifying. I guess my instinct was right in not wanting to try something called "speed paste." Those crazy Europeans!!!!!! // stares xenophobically //
(...one can stare xenophobically, right...?)
RE: last sentence of your first paragraph + your second paragraph: thank you again. This was exactly what I was thinking. It's good to hear someone else (who knows from experience) say the same thing. It seems pretty straightforward and logical to me but I've been hit with so much misinformation on meth that I can't help but instinctively think it's somehow EVIL.
RE: Mix meth with sugar: That's a great idea! ... I'm thinking of measuring out dosages and putting them in #1 capsules but then I was thinking if anybody ever saw a bunch of capsules with just a few mg in them they'd know what was up. ....Plus I was thinking that having a bunch of crystal around would just pretty much ensure I'd end up doing something stupid like snorting/smoking it and then when I wanted more I could break open another capsule. Not so with sugar + meth:)
You were serious about that right...?
How do you take yours, btw? If you got a gram of meth, what would you do with it?
Finally, re: evidence of that claim ... See this paper:
http://www.if-pan.krakow.pl/pjp/pdf/2009/6_966.pdf
A big part of the reason meth leads to Parkinson's is because of the increase in lipidophilic properties caused by adding the methyl group. In other words, the meth- part is what contributes to the structural changes that are signfiers of Parkinson's. It's all explained pretty well in the first couple pages. The paper's an interesting read anyway.
There are other sources too, but I haven't seen one that explains it as clearly and succinctly as this one. TBH, I didn't understand it at all until it was put so explicitly. Organic chemistry is not my thing :)
@ GORDENRAMSEY
I gotta admit I too love reading that post more and more each time. I wish they taught grade school so colorfully :D
@Angelology
RIGHT??? I had a friend who would go get those pills prescribed by a doctor in the morning (Xanax, Adderall, Soma, Roxicodone AND Dilaudid, somehow) and by dinner time he would have sold them all and made a fucking FORTUNE. I'm talking 5-10k for just a few hours of work. Granted that he was committing huge crimes before even walking out the door of the doctor's office (fake MRI....), not to mention the huge amount of crimes involved in selling them.... And also granted that he ended up penniless and addicted to Xanax, Adderall, Roxi and Dilaudid.... Heh. But it was a fun ride! I mention 'by dinner time' specifically cus he'd always buy that night:P
@funway part 2 (THE SEQUEL)
Isn't that pretty rare? I don't even think they have any on SR I can get in the US... Is it really that good?
@aciddeath
Hey I just responded to you in another post - QUIT FOLLOWIN ME. :)
+1 to what you said and I would definitely pay for the pills if I could afford them. I lost my health insurance though, and even though the pills are WAY cheaper than I ever though they would be, they are still pretty expensive to get out of pocket. Hence the impetus for this post: is it really a good idea to save money by buying harder drugs and using less of them?
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I'd like to see evidence that meth is more neurotoxic than amphetamine. I see people making this claim all the time, but nobody backs it up with evidence.
Funway, I suggested he not progress to meth but stick to amp since the OP was already taking amp and therefore the toxicity profiles would be similar. However, meth has a different toxicology profile than amp, which you claimed they were equivalent. I ASKED YOU nicely to provide evidence backing you claims, as I did when you not so politely instructed me to do so. However, you only respond complaining about people countering your incorrect claims without providing any evidence, while you just ignored my request for you to provide your own?!
Meth has a differing toxicity profile due to the the different mechanism by which the stress occurs. The mechanism has been proven to differ and not be antagonized by methods that prevent d-amp or cocaine damage. The affinity for the SERT transporter and effects on serotonin lead to an MDMA like toxicity profile in which serotonergic neurons are depeleted and begin to re-uptake dopamine leading to apoptosis. Also, the increased potency and lipophilicity of the molecule leads to a greater CNS penetration with increased concentrations, rather than being dispersed throughout the periphery, when combined with the extended pharmacokinetic profile resulting in longer lasting effects all contributes to the increased toxicity of meth.
1) West J Med. 1999 April; 170(4): 214–219.
2) Toxicokinetics of Amphetamines: Metabolism and Toxicokinetic Data of Designer Drugs, Amphetamine, Methamphetamine, and Their N-Alkyl Derivatives
3) Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 1990 Aug;36(4):745-9.
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@Funway: That was a poorly defended argument . . . In the first place you ask everyone else in the whole world to give you sources for stuff while providing nnnnnnnnone of your own....Only source in your whole reply = the source someone else sent you that you didn't read that you included to say it was irrelevant.
Other than that it's shit you made up. "D-amphetamine users are just going to take more" - kay, so's the guy with the Red Bull. But it's irrelevant too because it's a totally different molecule.
The specific kind of neurotoxicity here (the ones that separate d- from meth- ) are related to the methyl group in the methamphetamine, which is itself what separates methamphetamine from d-amphetamine.... I don't even know why this is a discussion that's still going on.
If you want sources, friggin' read the sources people gave you. You seriously asking others to read them for you and quote them? Lazy. We can only show you the door. I've already read the articles I send. And even if I haven't read anything but the relevant part, I've read that!
Next time do your research please. Sorry if I sound pissed off; it's just cus I'm pissed off. Me = always "wtf" @ "I know you all just did both the actual research for me and the actual footwork in finding the research for me because I won't do it myself but can you also read it to me too? Tell me a stoooor-ry!"
No.
Would it even matter anyway, though? You'll still be stuck in your thinking and fuck a bunch of "science." Nothing can change that but you, even a whole bunch of evidence. A dangerous mindset, it is. George W. Bush probably still believes there are WMDs in Iraq......
EDIT : btw, thanks for the link. Some good stuff there ... I like the one poster's idea about making your own stacks with caffeine and such
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... To those who believe no explanation is needed. To those who don't no explanation will suffice. Do your own homework funway :-D
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... To those who believe no explanation is needed. To those who don't no explanation will suffice. Do your own homework funway :-D
Wait, are we talking about having faith believing in God ... or about actual science?
That line is straight out of a Christian debating thread, Shredder :D
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Point! :)
I've only heard it in connection with REAL magic before (you know . . . card tricks and such).
I shall rephrase for the faithless! Nothing I could say could ever convince. So why bother? :)
Maybe I'm just bitter - I mean, I started this thread and came up with what I still think is one of the most awesome thread names on the forums / in the world. . . Then . . . Dude totally jacked my thread to tout the health benefits of meth ! Just sayin'.
//shakes seriousness meter// is this thing even on anymore . . ?