Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: goodvibes on December 13, 2012, 05:47 pm
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My job is extremely stressful, the people I work with are complete douchebags but I still have to go to work 7 days a week to make ends meet (I live in an apartment with my mom and girlfriend, my mom is too old and has gone through too much cancer treatment to be able to work more than part-time so I need this job to provide for us). The work itself is not a problem, the people I work with (particularly my boss) are extremely hard to deal with on a daily basis. I've had depression and anxiety problems for as long as I can remember but this job is making it much worse. Is there anything, possibly a prescription drug on SR that is not highly addictive but could help put me in a positive mood throughout an entire day of work (around 7 hours)? I don't have health insurance or I'd be seeing a doctor. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me out. :)
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I would suggest you try benzos like Xanax, or Klonopin if you want something longer lasting.
I believe there is a potential for addiction with very long term use, but I can tell you from experience that Xanax doesn't cause any addiction using it a few times a week for several weeks. Every day for a year or two may lead to addiction though.
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GHB - read this: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/ghb/authentic.html
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Just get some really GOOD MMJ and find one you like. Do you want to sleep and be relaxed? Get one with a very high CBD content that will sedate you, preferably an INDICA with these traits. Dont fuck with chemicals. Also watch your diet closer and make sure you are taking in enough fruits and veggiea and meat protein to deal with stress. Stay away from benzos like valium unless you only take it a short term But under your situation you may likely use it too much and get addicted so find a good bag of weed and take a few hits before, during and after work and you will feel better if you get the right kind. You can ask a vender but it sounds like you need some very good Master Kush or something with couch lock to sedate you as well as the pills can.
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Firstly, you're discussing self-medicating a mental disorder, so you're going to need to educate yourself as much as possible in regards to harm reduction and pharmacology because you're not going to have the luxury of a doctor.
Secondly, GHB is a horrible, horrible suggestion. GHB is addictive, and is a schedule 1 intoxicant. Why that member brought that up is beyond me if you plan on taking something on a daily basis.
Thirdly, I suggest you look into seroquel, hydroxyzine, and etizolam if you want anxiolytic relief. I believe etizolam also has some unique anti-depressant properties.
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You may want to look into a class of drugs in the racetam family along with other supplements people like to stack with them. Some of them are really good for depression and anxiety without being toxic or addictive. And as a bonus, they're perfectly legal to buy in most places.
http://www.longecity.org/forum/ Has a ton of useful information including experience reports and example supplement stacks.
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Benzo's like xanax would be effective on the anxiety part of things, but would do no good to the depression part of it all.
At a first glance you'd seem to be a candidate for ssri's like prozac or citalopram instead, but those do have unpleasant side effects, and while not addictive in the traditional sense of the word, can be hard to quit.
But perhaps you are feeling shitty for a good reason, your circumstances seem to be unpleasant at best. Medication is mostly designed towards people that feel depressed without having any good reason to feel that way, they are not designed for or aimed at people that actually have a difficult life and need to cope with that.
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Stay away from any Benzodiazepines as they are super addictive. If you really need help with anxiety then the only Benzodiazepine that I would recommend is Klonopin / Clonazepam. You should obviously do the research but it is the least addictive since it is slow reacting and longer lasting. Start with very low doses like .25 mg. Don't start popping 2 mg's and expect to not get addicted.
Melatonin (from Walgreen's OTC) is amazing as a sleeping aid if you have trouble at night with going to sleep. It is the best and safest sleep aid that has almost no side effects. So if you have the problem of speeding thoughts at night when trying to sleep it can help.
I found that Wellbutrin (Bupropion) is the best for depression for me personally. It is not an SSRI so it does not have sexual side effects like the SSRI's. I lost all interest in sex and had other side effects from all of the drugs that I have tried over the years (effexor, lexapro, prozac and zoloft).
Wellbutrin is also used to help people quit smoking and another positive side effect is that most people lose weight taking Wellbutrin.
It has worked the best for me in the 20 years or so of on and off usage of depression medications. It might not work for you and this is all kind of silly anyways since you should see a doctor for medical advice. It should be cheap since there are generics for it. Many doctors as we all know prescribe the newest drugs without generics so they get kick backs from the pharmaceutical companies.
Depending on the state and how much money you make in a year you could possibly get free medical care from the state. When I was 22 years old and still in college I lost my insurance due to one late payment.
So I found out that I had a tumor in my body right before or after that. No insurance company would even consider me obviously. So I was broke and needed medical care. I lived in a state that provided me medical care for almost free and I had the tumor removed (by a great surgeon and at a good hospital). So check out what you can get from the state or maybe a local low income clinic.
If you have money to spend on SR then you have enough to see a doctor (they will negotiate if you are paying out of pocket). You may then may qualify from a drug company for discounts or be able to purchase a low cost anti depressant legally.
SR is going to end up probably costing you more then the legit way unless you buy the crap from India/China. You don't know what the hell is in those pills. Biggest gamble when you are trying to get semi legit drugs. There can be some lethal shit in those pills.
Good luck and get help. Depression and anxiety only get worse if you dont do anything for it. Also look at other remedies that are hard to do when depressed but help the most. No alcohol, good sleep habits, work out, eat healthy, stay off of other drugs and seek counseling if you ever have really bad (suicide) thoughts.
SR is really probably going to cost more then the legit way I think.
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"GHB is a self-limiting medicine, which means that you discover by yourself when it is time to stop medication. Why? Because GHB induces emotional satiety and when you are emotionally satiated you do not feel like asking for more joy as you feel already fed up with happiness!!! Yes, you can be fed up with happiness! This is why people using GHB do not become addicted. In fact, GHB is even used to treat alcohol and opiate addicts. "
Is that stuff true? lol
I've tried Welbutrin, I guess its a hit and miss cause it didn't help me at all.
And there is pretty much no drug that isn't addicting.
Maybe try some supplements, they might help you.
I'm trying 5 htp atm and Im thinking of trying St.johns wort and L-tyrosine.
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look me up on BMR i have about 3 different anti d\s
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Heavy weight training and proper diet could do wonders - it gave me unbelievable results: mood, sleep, confidence, motivation, energy... the list is endless.
8-10 hours of sleep will also give you approx 5 decent REM cycles during sleep which makes me feel great.
Check out Modafinil if sleep duration is an issue - amazing drug, and some people use for depression anxiety too, so worth checking out my friend.
Good luck!
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Your best bet for self-medication without risking addiction is definitely MMJ. It'll definitely help with the depression and anxiety. You might also want to consider the occasional Ketamine bump, I've read it's one of the fastest depression treatments there is. You could also try St. John's Wort if you want something simple from Walgreen's. A lot of them time Anti-Depressants end up causing more problems then they solve. The thing you could do for yourself is like suspect said, diet and exercise. Carve out some time in your schedule to exercise some, I guarantee you won't be stressed after a good workout. You don't even have to shell out the money for a gym membership or equipment. I've been serious about fitness for the past 7 years, and my best results came after I stopped lifting weights an hour a day and just started doing Hindu Squats and Hindu Pushups. You'd be amazed at how effectively those two exercises work your entire body.
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I agree with the person who said to avoid benzodiazepines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_benzodiazepines
I suggest cannabis.
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Secondly, GHB is a horrible, horrible suggestion. GHB is addictive, and is a schedule 1 intoxicant. Why that member brought that up is beyond me if you plan on taking something on a daily basis.
Dude, the rest of your comments were good, but this one, with respect, is nonsense.
Firstly, what bearing the label "schedule 1 intoxicant" has on this conversation when the whole of Silk Road is about making illegal (schedule 1 and other) drugs available, I cannot fathom?? You seem to be equating scheduling status with efficacy or usefulness - when that is exactly what we are transcending with SR here. Bizarre...
Secondly, GHB is not "addictive" as you suggest it might be. Nearly all drugs have the potential for repetitive obsessive behaviour associated with them - but GHB would definitely fall into the "low risk" category - which you would know if you did your homework. The link I posted above might be a good place to start...
I suggested it because it does indeed have superb clinical efficacy as an anti-depressant and anxiolytic - when taken daily and long term at low dosage (around 1g, twice a day).
BG
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Thank you to everyone who took the time to give me their input on this matter. I guess I'll just stick to good ol' mary jane.
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I'm not that convinced that cannabis is the right solution here though. The problem is that it can heighten emotions, both positive and negative. Then again, if ghb was the only other candidate on the list to consider, i'd readily light up a joint and forget about that idea asap.
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Secondly, GHB is a horrible, horrible suggestion. GHB is addictive, and is a schedule 1 intoxicant. Why that member brought that up is beyond me if you plan on taking something on a daily basis.
Dude, the rest of your comments were good, but this one, with respect, is nonsense.
Firstly, what bearing the label "schedule 1 intoxicant" has on this conversation when the whole of Silk Road is about making illegal (schedule 1 and other) drugs available, I cannot fathom?? You seem to be equating scheduling status with efficacy or usefulness - when that is exactly what we are transcending with SR here. Bizarre...
Secondly, GHB is not "addictive" as you suggest it might be. Nearly all drugs have the potential for repetitive obsessive behaviour associated with them - but GHB would definitely fall into the "low risk" category - which you would know if you did your homework. The link I posted above might be a good place to start...
I suggested it because it does indeed have superb clinical efficacy as an anti-depressant and anxiolytic - when taken daily and long term at low dosage (around 1g, twice a day).
BG
You're peddling GHB as a cure-all. The only thing to my knowledge that GHB is approved for is sleep disorders, which is bizarre considering it's a schedule 1 substance.
No sane medical professional would prescribe GHB as an anti-depressant, or as an anxiolytic, as there are more established medications out there that don't have the side effect of the user falling into a coma if you take too much. (which is possible on benzos, but difficult to do so, much more so than GHB)
So no sir. I do not condone your biased suggestion. GHB is not a low-risk drug.
Do my research, on what GABAb?
I'm the only one on here with any baclofen!
8)
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Do you have any baclofen Joey? ;D
Seriously no need to be abrasive, but also like you said no need to be patronizing.
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Ketamine has shown amazing promise as an anti-depressant when used in moderation. I have a friend that ingests a high dose every two weeks and it has markedly improved his moods. Here's a study:
https://www.sciencemag.org/content/338/6103/68
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Secondly, GHB is a horrible, horrible suggestion. GHB is addictive, and is a schedule 1 intoxicant. Why that member brought that up is beyond me if you plan on taking something on a daily basis.
Dude, the rest of your comments were good, but this one, with respect, is nonsense.
Firstly, what bearing the label "schedule 1 intoxicant" has on this conversation when the whole of Silk Road is about making illegal (schedule 1 and other) drugs available, I cannot fathom?? You seem to be equating scheduling status with efficacy or usefulness - when that is exactly what we are transcending with SR here. Bizarre...
Secondly, GHB is not "addictive" as you suggest it might be. Nearly all drugs have the potential for repetitive obsessive behaviour associated with them - but GHB would definitely fall into the "low risk" category - which you would know if you did your homework. The link I posted above might be a good place to start...
I suggested it because it does indeed have superb clinical efficacy as an anti-depressant and anxiolytic - when taken daily and long term at low dosage (around 1g, twice a day).
BG
You're peddling GHB as a cure-all. The only thing to my knowledge that GHB is approved for is sleep disorders, which is bizarre considering it's a schedule 1 substance.
No sane medical professional would prescribe GHB as an anti-depressant, or as an anxiolytic, as there are more established medications out there that don't have the side effect of the user falling into a coma if you take too much. (which is possible on benzos, but difficult to do so, much more so than GHB)
So no sir. I do not condone your biased suggestion. GHB is not a low-risk drug.
Do my research, on what GABAb?
I'm the only one on here with any baclofen!
8)
Actually I'm not suggesting it as a cure-all. Definitely not. I have more integrity than that.
But, if you research more, you will find that GHB (before it was scheduled) enjoyed significant use as a clinical anti-depressant, with very positive results. In fact it is probably the only drug that has been used clinically as an anti-depressant that actually allows healing of the underlying psychological issues. This is because it supports emotional catharsis rather then emotional suppression (which is what most all the others do).
Furthermore if you dig even deeper you will discover that it is actually GHB's superb efficacy in this regard that led to it being seen as a threat by the mainstream pharmaceutical establishment, and hence its banning. Prozac is a multi-billion Dollar industry. GHB can't be patented as it's naturally occurring in the human body, and so Eli Lilly can't own it. The number one cash-cow of the pharmaceutical industry was radically threatened and that is why GHB got taken out in a well-organized and very well funded media campaign - and one that has IMHO even affected your perceptions.
This is clear to me from your use of the word "coma" - a very loaded, graphically suggestive word - conjuring up images of someone lost to the world with pipes coming out of his body and plugged into a machine. "Coma", "date rape", "made from paint-stripper and drain-cleaner", "highly addictive" etc etc - these phrases and images were all part of the media campaign to demonize GHB, and have NOTHING to do with GHB in truth.
To clarify the point, if you take too much GHB you will fall into a deep sleep from which you cannot be aroused for about 3-4 hours, after which you will awaken feeling refreshed, in good spirits and in perfect health. Hardly a coma!
And yes I do feel you should do more research on GHB if you're going to comment seriously on it. Some suggestions:
http://www.amazon.com/GHB-Natural-Enhancer-Ward-Dean/dp/0962741868/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355565462&sr=1-1&keywords=ghb (very good book to read on the subject)
http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/76-the-truth-about-ghb-steven-fowkes-testifies-to-the-california-state-legislature-committee
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/ghb/authentic.html
With respect,
BG
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Have three separate Ayahuasca sessions and realize depression & anxiety hold no value in your life and purge the negativity out with the rest of the toxins in your body and practice meditating and breathing.
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It's true. The nigga has baclofen. Do you have baclofen?
I talked to Bruce for like an hour. He's fluent in benzos and GABA. Bluegiraffe is a shill for GHB becuase he sells it. The OP asked for something that isn't addictive, and can be used everyday, and this douchebag says GHB and patronizes everyone that disagrees with him?
Asshole.
Baclofen I just looked up is the only other pharm that triggers GABAB so you telling Bruce to do his research makes you a patronizing prick.
That's not very nice :)
I do sell GHB (because I actually believe in it), and I have researched it in depth for many years. So please accept my apologies if I came across as patronizing - certainly not my intention. But I do like to correct perceptions that to me appear not founded in how it actually is.
I know that Baclofen is a GABA-B agonist (and thus shares some characteristics with GHB) but I have not researched nor bio-assayed it, so cannot comment. I am sure it is another viable option for goodvibes to consider. Ultimately it comes down to his choice based on us providing truthful and accurate information to him.
To suggest that I am a shill for GHB is really not cool though. I am upfront about the fact that I sell it (mentioned in my forum signature) and I would never suggest it where I did not feel it would be appropriate. Based on my research and experience I would still say it's a viable option to consider in this circumstance.
BG
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Have three separate Ayahuasca sessions and realize depression & anxiety hold no value in your life and purge the negativity out with the rest of the toxins in your body and practice meditating and breathing.
Second
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look me up on BMR i have about 3 different anti d\s
A little loyalty would not go amiss...
If you're going to promote on the SR forum then at least consider actually selling on SR...
Know what I mean?
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A deep, un-wakable 4-8 hour sleep is a coma dude. I'm not a propagandist and don't fancy using words like "date rape drug", or "bath salts" but medically that is a coma.
You also can't patent DMT and you could make the same claims from everything from MDMA to marijuana.
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A deep sleep from which one cannot be awakened is, indeed, not always a coma. As long as there are things like retractive relfexes to pain stimuli, a condition like that is not usually described as a coma to the general public. By all means it is a conditions from which recovery is plausible, and in many cases likely.
Barring that, GHB is still a rather dangerous substances. Acute withdrawal can be life threatening, which should be reason enough to seriously consider it as a treatment option. Benzodiazepine withdrawal can, in rare cases, be life threatening too, but that is very unlikely when taken at doses prescribed by doctors.
Another benefit with benzodiazepines is that they are clinically available and to some degree interchangeable. Someone brought into hospital suffering from, for example, klonopin withdrawal symptoms by benefit by treatment with diazepam, alprazolam and other legal and readily available substances. In case of ghb withdrawal this would be much more difficult since there is no legal ghb substitute available, and treatment would only focus on controlling symptoms.
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I believe you could actually treat GHB withdrawal with baclofen, which I have some of, which is why I took offense to someone telling me to do my research when I'm the only vendor on here with a GABAb agonist besides GBL or GHB. The OP asked for something non-addictive that can be taken everyday, and BlueGiraffe recommends GHB, which on both grounds, addictive, and not something you should take everyday goes against the stipulations of the first post.
I recommended Seroquel, hydrozyzine, and etizolam because etizolam has a pharmacological profile that suggests it has anti-depressant effects and a lower potential for addiction that benzodiazepines.
Seroquel is something I wouldn't take for anxiety, but it's approved for GAD.
Hydroxyzine is a novel first generation antihistamine with opiate potentiating/anxiolytic effects.
I didn't even recommend benzodiazepines considering the stipulations of the first post, so going from hydrxyzine to GHB without a discussion on benzodiazepines, and suggesting GHB in this fashion at all is silly.
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A deep, un-wakable 4-8 hour sleep is a coma dude. I'm not a propagandist and don't fancy using words like "date rape drug", or "bath salts" but medically that is a coma.
You also can't patent DMT and you could make the same claims from everything from MDMA to marijuana.
um... don't wish to be argumentative :) but clinically it is not a "coma". and it's 4 hours outer max, normally less. this knowledge comes from an extensive literature search, 15 years of experience with it, and the deliberate self-administration of 10g (as Na salt) in a single dose on an empty stomach (a huge amount) to test acute toxicity parameters. just saying...
and yes one could say similar things about the other drugs mentioned, and the banning of any drug is always preceded by a media disinformation campaign to get the masses to support the move. Thankfully we've all grown past the ideas that cannabis will make you kill your granny (which were the kinds of notions being pushed pre it being banned). GHB was just one of the most recent drugs to be banned so much of the negative hype is still in the public consciousness. And GHB was done in a much grander way than something like 2C-B for example, as 2C-B wasn't about to cut into any other major pharmaceutical markets like GHB was starting to do. Fuck, even Oprah did a show on it and spoke out of her ear about it. Scripted all the way - and that costs a lot of money...
anyway not wanting to argue - just providing what I know to the conversation...
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A deep sleep from which one cannot be awakened is, indeed, not always a coma. As long as there are things like retractive relfexes to pain stimuli, a condition like that is not usually described as a coma to the general public. By all means it is a conditions from which recovery is plausible, and in many cases likely.
Thank you.
Barring that, GHB is still a rather dangerous substances. Acute withdrawal can be life threatening, which should be reason enough to seriously consider it as a treatment option. Benzodiazepine withdrawal can, in rare cases, be life threatening too, but that is very unlikely when taken at doses prescribed by doctors.
"rather dangerous" is a relative term. I would say that GHB and benzos would share the same or similar risks at best in regards to acute withdrawal IF such symptoms even arose. The daily dose of GHB when used clinically as an anxiolytic / anti-depressant is much lower than the usual recreational dose.
Another benefit with benzodiazepines is that they are clinically available and to some degree interchangeable. Someone brought into hospital suffering from, for example, klonopin withdrawal symptoms by benefit by treatment with diazepam, alprazolam and other legal and readily available substances. In case of ghb withdrawal this would be much more difficult since there is no legal ghb substitute available, and treatment would only focus on controlling symptoms.
Valid, I agree.
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Do you have baclofen Bruce?? Wasn't quite sure yet ;)
I believe you could actually treat GHB withdrawal with baclofen, which I have some of, which is why I took offense to someone telling me to do my research when I'm the only vendor on here with a GABAb agonist besides GBL or GHB. The OP asked for something non-addictive that can be taken everyday, and BlueGiraffe recommends GHB, which on both grounds, addictive, and not something you should take everyday goes against the stipulations of the first post.
GHB and baclofen could probably each treat withdrawal of the other. Appreciate you bringing this substance to my awareness in these specific details. And I apologize for causing offense. Not intended. I just felt that your research on GHB specifically could have gone deeper - not saying anything about anything else.
I do stand by my original comments though: GHB can be safely used daily as a clinical anti-depressant / anxiolytic at doses lower then usual recreational ones (and has been very successfully so done). There are significant refs to this in the book by Ward Dean MD that I suggested to you.
Appreciate the detail, research and wisdom in all your other comments.
And goodvibes, sorry for arguing all over your thread - very rude I know :) Trust something useful came out of it for you...
Veritas valebit...
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I'm not trying to be argumentative either, but the past few posts of this thread have been arguing semantics. I was operating within confines of the stipulations outlined in the first post, and I believe although you have a basis in argument, GHB certainly is not a first line choice of substances in this situation.
First line medications in this case would be an SSRI, w/hydroxyzine, or something like Seroquel, followed by or including benzodiazepines.
I'm just going by the prescribing experiences I've had and the DSM-IV.
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I'd certainly agree that SSRI treatment would be chosen by most physicians based on the problem described, and i'm sure there is a basis in the DSM (4 or 5) for that.
Personally i think the downside of this is that the side effects of ssri's are largely underestimated by gp's. Side effects like sexual dysfunction (in males) are pretty common, and while not life threatening in any way directly, could lead to more problems in other aspects of life. Also, i think the term 'non-addictive' is a bit of a misnomer here. Mostly ssri treatment -does- require very careful tapering off to avoid paradoxical effects. Neglecting that may not be life threatening either, but it can lead to great discomfort.
I think ssri's are too often used in cases where there is no major depression, but a disorder that is actually anxiety/panic dominant. In such cases ssri's will not be an effective treatment for the actual condition, but will have all the usual side effects, including the requirement to tapering off doses slowly to avoid adverse effects on the way out.
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Benzo's or eaither BusPar....
I take xanax and klonopins for anxiety.. But when i was locked up and needed medication i was put on BUSPAR which is kinda like a xanax but it takes a few weeks to get in your system and start working...But i forget your looking on SR so yeah XANAX OR KLONOPIN...actually ATIVAN would probley be best for you cause its not as addictive ..IMO
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I'd certainly agree that SSRI treatment would be chosen by most physicians based on the problem described, and i'm sure there is a basis in the DSM (4 or 5) for that.
Personally i think the downside of this is that the side effects of ssri's are largely underestimated by gp's. Side effects like sexual dysfunction (in males) are pretty common, and while not life threatening in any way directly, could lead to more problems in other aspects of life. Also, i think the term 'non-addictive' is a bit of a misnomer here. Mostly ssri treatment -does- require very careful tapering off to avoid paradoxical effects. Neglecting that may not be life threatening either, but it can lead to great discomfort.
I think ssri's are too often used in cases where there is no major depression, but a disorder that is actually anxiety/panic dominant. In such cases ssri's will not be an effective treatment for the actual condition, but will have all the usual side effects, including the requirement to tapering off doses slowly to avoid adverse effects on the way out.
I agree wholeheartedly. SSRI's are prescribed too broadly as a cure-all of emotional issues. The side effects are significant as described above, getting out is problematic, and from a perspective of actual psychotherapeutic healing they do not generally serve, because they suppress the symptoms of the underlying issues rather than allow processing, healing and transformation - which is crucial to long-term sanity and mental wellness.
For me SSRI's are going in the opposite direction to the healing psychedelics like Iboga, Ayahuasca and San Pedro / Peyote. For actual growth, true wellness and actualization I would avoid SSRI's like the plague (except perhaps Sceletium which does function like one, without the negatives, and allows process).
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I wouldn't recommend avoiding ssri's at all costs.
The problem with these substances is not that they are ineffective. The problem is that they are often prescribed as 'cure' for some ailment that has never been properly diagnosed.
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DMT