Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: wrathmore on August 28, 2013, 04:19 pm
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Ok so im getting prettty enraged at the way the media is portraying the happenings in Syria. This is my opinion on it...
Israel and USA have been preparing an attack for a long time and just like with Iraq the guise of WMD are the excuse to go and destroy another arabic nation, cause chaos while they suck dry their resources...oil and gas.The Syrian government have been winning in their offensive against the 'rebels' so why would Assad use chemical weapons. He knows it would be the death of him and the rebels know its the surest way to get foreign intervention. Its screaming that it was an attack perpetrated by rebels who were supplied by Americans from the turkish military base. Anyway what are people opinions on this? Russia seems to be siding with Syria as do China and a few others. One side (USA,UK) says Assad used Gas while the others (russia mainly) state it was the rebels!
Discuss :)
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For fifty-odd years the Americuns have wanted to depose whoever was in charge in Syria. Why? Who knows. Now the black liberal war criminal in chief is going to try and just do it. I, too, am enraged. I want to go and rip the goddamn warmongers' faces off. Fuck, this country is rapidly going down the drain.
If only some thirty years or so ago people had started to vote their consciences instead of for the "lesser of two evils", we might be in a position to have a very viable third (or fourth or fifth) party and maybe we'd have somebody like Ralph Nader as president instead of the demo-repub garbage that usually wins.
goblin
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Ok so im getting prettty enraged at the way the media is portraying the happenings in Syria. This is my opinion on it...
Israel and USA have been preparing an attack for a long time and just like with Iraq the guise of WMD are the excuse to go and destroy another arabic nation, cause chaos while they suck dry their resources...oil and gas.The Syrian government have been winning in their offensive against the 'rebels' so why would Assad use chemical weapons. He knows it would be the death of him and the rebels know its the surest way to get foreign intervention. Its screaming that it was an attack perpetrated by rebels who were supplied by Americans from the turkish military base. Anyway what are people opinions on this? Russia seems to be siding with Syria as do China and a few others. One side (USA,UK) says Assad used Gas while the others (russia mainly) state it was the rebels!
Discuss :)
I think we should stay the fuck out of it. Whether or not you think Assad was responsible for using chemical weapons, he has nevertheless slaughtered countless civilians. But if he is deposed, who will take over? Al-Qaeda? Much of the FSA is made up of Islamic foreign fighters.
Saddam was a piece of shit too, but we had no business trying to "spread democracy." According to the recent rhetoric I have been hearing in the media though, regime change is not the goal of Syrian intervention, so if that is true what the fuck are we doing?
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Yea stay the fuck out of it. I love my country just not the people who run it. 10 years later and we have already forgotten our last lesson. Personally, I expected more from Obama but his administration is now the one beating the drum of war so we can have four wars going at the same time. Afghan, Pakistan, Yemen and hopefully not soon to be Syria.
The rebels were sticking it to Assad and then the government regrouped and started to turn the tide of war back into their favor. I do not understand why Assad would use chemical weapons but maybe he did. Even if he did we have known about it since the first reports in April. Ridiculous. Unfortunately, we think that helping the rebels is a good thing. Well, at least some of us. I for one do not think America should spend one dollar or give one bullet to aid in a civil war in a country with no fucking economy and absolutely no benefit to the United States.
We have done this before. We gave weapons to the Iraqis to fight the Iranians. We gave weapons to the Taliban and Al Qaeda to fight the soviets. It has been proven time and again that giving weapons to religious zealots (sorry to call Muslims zealots because the fundamentalists are not worthy of such a title) will never result in a peaceful or sustainable outcome. We have had to clean up Iraq after he used the chemical weapons we sold him on the Kurds and we have had to clean up in Afgahnistan after we gave weapons to Osama and company causing two wars that have cost the lives of too many of our boys.
We will probably have to do the same if we keep giving weapons to Syrian rebels who if they defeat Assad's government will then have a war between the secular and fundamentalist factions of the now rebels. Hopefully that shitbird Putin will clean this up for us. After all, he hates people who don't think like he does and would enjoy killing them.
OBAMA = THE BLACK BUSH... Yeah I voted for you Obama now go choke on a dick you faggot.
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They're doing the same shameful shit they did in Iraq with the sketch of Colin Powell (whom had to retire of political and military life after that btw)
They must be doing it again just to show us at which point they don't give a fuck.
Consequences can only be disastrous and not only in the region. It will involve Russia, Iran, China, fuck even the Egyptians now. Russia can't let happen to Syria what happened to Libya, even if they don't go on the field they will provide weapons. Remember Vietnam.and remember who won? We're going into a catastrophic war and in this region with no assurance Occident wins, at all.. Thank you leading us for something that seems like beginning of WW3 fucking puppets.
And what are the stakes? I see Occident dominated by speculative banking power going into war to hide an economic crises which system is entirely responsible. The only beneficiary of this except the banking system would be Israel but shit that's another subject. One day we should start to wonder why it is always Israel enemies we're attacking and why it is always their wars we fight.
Learn about Zionism and Talmudism, I believe a lot of the things that are being done right now are a consequence of the power they have.
But to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's I talk about the Rotchshilds/Bleinkfein and co.. of course no confusion. Zionist provoke antisemitism, that help their cause.
In the end... damn, why so much hate. I mean you come from the same People, you actually look the same, the only ones who agree with the Muslim about pork are the Jews. That would be nice if at a moment you could sit together around a fire and eat kosher/hallal together LOL
Can't eat at a table with a Zionist though.
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Ok so im getting prettty enraged at the way the media is portraying the happenings in Syria. This is my opinion on it...
Israel and USA have been preparing an attack for a long time and just like with Iraq the guise of WMD are the excuse to go and destroy another arabic nation, cause chaos while they suck dry their resources...oil and gas.The Syrian government have been winning in their offensive against the 'rebels' so why would Assad use chemical weapons. He knows it would be the death of him and the rebels know its the surest way to get foreign intervention. Its screaming that it was an attack perpetrated by rebels who were supplied by Americans from the turkish military base. Anyway what are people opinions on this? Russia seems to be siding with Syria as do China and a few others. One side (USA,UK) says Assad used Gas while the others (russia mainly) state it was the rebels!
Discuss :)
I agree with you on one fact that the chemical weapon attacks were perpuated by the Rebels as a way to push the US to attack Assad. If the whole world is telling Assad not to use Chemical weapons or we'll attack you would it make sense that he was responsible for the attack? The US is very reluctant to go into Syria or even do Air attacks. At this point after two years of Civil war in Syria and over 100,000 people killed one has to ask themselves what is the point now? Yes the whole Iraq war was based on the false premise that they had WMD so that Bush jr could finish the unfinished job of Bush senior to get rid of Saddam. Look what happened there. Now ask yourself this. Was the middle east more peaceful when Saddam was in power or is it more peaceful now? All of this and I do mean all of this is the US fault. If they go into Syria and take out the Assad it will be Iraq all over again and more recently Egypt. Past history shows us that the US has no knowledge and experience in dealing with the Middle East and it's vast complexities of secular religion, tribal fanatics, and the mindset of Arabs. Furthermore the US has viewed the the middle east region always through their own eyes. They base all their actions on their own beliefs and values without taking into consideration the beliefs and values of the people of the country that they are occupying as an invading force. I despise terrorism on all fronts. I hated seeing New York. I hated seeing what happened in Boston. But what about all the things we can't see? What about all the innocent kids in the middle east that are dead and laying on the street like trash..where is the humanity in that? Bush was the one that set all these events in motion and now we are witnessing the effects firsthand.
The US need to GTFO out of all the countries especially in the Middle east cause what they have been doing so far has been making things worse.They need to stop occupying other countries and start worrying about their own country.
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We only need Saudi Arabia. Let the rest of the middle east fuck each other up. The West did it for years and is now considered civilized. Let them learn it to earn it.
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If we (the US) bomb Syria we are really gonna piss off Russia and China and because shit always runs downstream also N. Korea, Egypt, etc. So my fear is this could potentially lead to WWIII. We would have the Brits on our side along with a few random countries that all share the same suffix of ISTAN, so in a nutshell we would probably be fucked. Seems to me because of the douchebags running this country the title of #1 world superpower is up for grabs and someone is gonna step up to the plate. My money is on Russia, that Putin is a bad motherfucker.
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It's just the US wanting control over opium and oil.
The US goes where the drugs are: Vietnam, Colombia, Mexico, Afghanistan.
Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia : oil.
Unfortunately for the US, Europe was able to secure a lot of oil from Saudi. They don't want that to happen again in Syria.
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It's just the US wanting control over opium and oil.
The US goes where the drugs are: Vietnam, Colombia, Mexico, Afghanistan.
Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia : oil.
Unfortunately for the US, Europe was able to secure a lot of oil from Saudi. They don't want that to happen again in Syria.
All about the Oil, Banks, Arms
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The rebels had a massive resistance building up in the part of Damascus they still controlled. They were preparing for a massive strike. The Assad regime caught wind of this and stationed the chemical weapons there. That is what spurred the mass murder. You people can dig your heads in the sand all you want and speculate about how it's going to affect Wall street, but the fact remains this guy (Assad) has been BUTCHERING his own people. The chemical weapons attack was undeniably a mass murder, borderline genocide. It seems the free will of those people to topple the Assad regime.
But on the other hand, lots of the FSA is in deep with al-qaeda and similar factions. At least Assad can maintain some sort of order right? What happens when these "terrorist organizations" overthrow the government? It becomes the Syrian state of Al-qaeda? Sounds worse than Assad.
It really is a shit mess and if Obama does nothing after drawing a line and proclaiming that the US will interfere if chemical weapons are used, he will look like a spineless pussy. The world knows that Putin will make good on his word, to the T. Obama appears to be more of a gum-flapper.
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The rebels had a massive resistance building up in the part of Damascus they still controlled. They were preparing for a massive strike. The Assad regime caught wind of this and stationed the chemical weapons there. That is what spurred the mass murder. You people can dig your heads in the sand all you want and speculate about how it's going to affect Wall street, but the fact remains this guy (Assad) has been BUTCHERING his own people. The chemical weapons attack was undeniably a mass murder, borderline genocide. It seems the free will of those people to topple the Assad regime.
But on the other hand, lots of the FSA is in deep with al-qaeda and similar factions. At least Assad can maintain some sort of order right? What happens when these "terrorist organizations" overthrow the government? It becomes the Syrian state of Al-qaeda? Sounds worse than Assad.
It really is a shit mess and if Obama does nothing after drawing a line and proclaiming that the US will interfere if chemical weapons are used, he will look like a spineless pussy. The world knows that Putin will make good on his word, to the T. Obama appears to be more of a gum-flapper.
The problem with that tactic is now you have Assad..no one here is saying that he's not a mass murderer that kills his own people but let's face it the US doesn't give a shit about humanity. Where were they when villagers were getting murdered by Rebels in Africa with machetes with women and kids getting gunned down? Where were they when Saddam unleashed chemical weapons on the Kurds in the north of Iraq for no reason. Yes the US goes where there's either Opium or Oil, previous poster that said that is spot on. But I'll tell you this that the sands are shifting and we can sit here and think the US is the superpower but when you think about China, North Korea, and Russia teaming up together that could shape up to be a nightmare of a situation. Throughout the history and the ages a common principle of human survival has always been to ban together to defeat a common enemy that's too powerful for you to defeat on your own. In my humble opinion I think there's a much larger and deeper game being played here then just the Syria issue. You can trace this back to the days when the Soviets where supplying Cuba with weapons. Where you think the Rebels or Syria are getting theirs? Wouldn't even surprise me if Russia is selling weapons to the Asssad regime and the rebels.
The important thing to remember is that when a position of power opens as such if Assad was removed chaos and civil unrest will ensue such as we saw and still see in Iraq. Saddam was an evil dictator and man but that's what it took to keep order in the middle east not trying to bring democracy to people that don't understand that. BTW did I mess the MEMO or National Broadcast that made us the worlds police? I can't stand the hypocrisy of the US government, geez and people wonder why I do drugs... It was once said that a depressed person actually sees the world for what it is and a normal happy person has the distorted view hence making him happy. 70% of your average american is happy enough just to be able to pay the mortgage, feed the kids, sit in front of the TV and could care less besides their day to day life. So then I ask you with a countries population that has that mindset then what change will ever come. People in Egypt and Turkey had the courage to stand up and say ENOUGH we won't take no more... Syria is more of a religious civil war with multiple parties involved but my point is when do Americans choose to stand up and so no more?
You're tracked by your cellphones, your calls are monitored and emails, and not to mention your internet. Tor in the month of August had a 300% increase in users. That's great and all but is that our answer? To hide..... no things will change the US will either change or it will fall like all other 'Super Powers' before it out such as Rome, Greece, and Egypt.
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The rebels had a massive resistance building up in the part of Damascus they still controlled. They were preparing for a massive strike. The Assad regime caught wind of this and stationed the chemical weapons there. That is what spurred the mass murder. You people can dig your heads in the sand all you want and speculate about how it's going to affect Wall street, but the fact remains this guy (Assad) has been BUTCHERING his own people. The chemical weapons attack was undeniably a mass murder, borderline genocide. It seems the free will of those people to topple the Assad regime.
[...]
okay now please remember some simple facts.
Vietnam gulf of Tonkin incidents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression." The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.
In 2005, an internal National Security Agency historical study was declassified; it concluded[7] that the Maddox had engaged the North Vietnamese Navy on August 2, but that there were no North Vietnamese Naval vessels present during the incident of August "The report stated regarding August 2:
At 1505G, Captain Herrick ordered Ogier's gun crews to open fire if the boats approached within ten thousand yards. At about 1505G, the Maddox fired three rounds to warn off the communist boats. This initial action was never reported by the Johnson administration, which insisted that the Vietnamese boats fired first.[7]
Regarding August 4:
It is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night. [...] In truth, Hanoi's navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on August 2.[8]
The Gulf of Tonkin incident has long been admitted to be a false flag operation to get the U.S. into war with Vietnam.[9][10][11][12][13][14][15]
Kuwaiti incubator babies story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)#In_popular_culture
Her story was initially corroborated by Amnesty International[1] and testimony from evacuees. Following the liberation of Kuwait, reporters were given access to the country and found the story of stolen incubators unsubstantiated. However, they did find that a number of people, including babies, died when nurses and doctors fled the country.
In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيره الصباح) and that she was the daughter of Saud bin Nasir Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign which was run by Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's testimony has largely come to be regarded as wartime propaganda.
Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
President George W. Bush asserted peaceful measures could not disarm Iraq of the weapons he alleged it to have and launched a second Gulf War,[10] despite multiple dissenting opinions[11] and questions of integrity[12][13][14] about the underlying intelligence.[15] Later U.S.-led inspections agreed that Iraq had earlier abandoned its WMD programs, but asserted Iraq had an intention to pursue those programs if UN sanctions were ever lifted.[16]
[...] A key CIA informant in Iraq admitted that he lied about his allegations, "then watched in shock as it was used to justify the war".[19]
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We only need Saudi Arabia. Let the rest of the middle east fuck each other up. The West did it for years and is now considered civilized. Let them learn it to earn it.
You, sir, have a chocolatier's expertise of history.
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Well that settles it, im pretty proud for the first time in my life the UK hasnt jumped into bed with America and showed the world it has a back bone by not getting involved in Syria, i can honestly say i was shocked and thought a lot less of England before yesterday night.
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Well that settles it, im pretty proud for the first time in my life the UK hasnt jumped into bed with America and showed the world it has a back bone by not getting involved in Syria, i can honestly say i was shocked and thought a lot less of England before yesterday night.
Somebody in UK is actually thinking for a change. Must be the great influence of George Galloway, what a guy!
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Let them kill each others, a way to treat the muslims growth rate.
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I grew up believing I lived in the greatest country on Earth. As a kid, being patriotic was the shit! America was awesome I thought! Until I grew up, and got old enough to realize how shady our whole government is. It's a shame to realize you've been manipulated and fed bullshit by your country your whole life.
The thing with America, is that it's such a ''great'' country, that the majority of American citizens are completely closed off to the world around them. The news portrays shit in a completely different way it goes down. I'm pretty sure if ppl in Syria saw CNN, or another news channel, they would be outraged at how bad the media twists the story. I grew up loving my country, now I fucking hate America.
I appreciate my human rights. Eating, living, breathing, talking, religion if i choose. I don;t need a fucking Constitution to assure me of my right. These are actions I was BORN TO DO. You can't just shut someone up, or tell them to not worship this guy or whatever. The fact that it has to be on paper shows how fucked up humans are to deny us of our birth rights.
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We only need Saudi Arabia. Let the rest of the middle east fuck each other up. The West did it for years and is now considered civilized. Let them learn it to earn it.
ahh there lies your puppet master. Saudis and Russia are the top 2 in oil exports... Russia holds an iron fist on natgas into Europe
Qatar and anyone else that wants to get into that game has to pipeline it up there.. go get a map. It is either Syria or Iran where this pipeline would have to go through
Saudis have been trying to bribe the Russians to give up support of Syria but that would be dumb short term gain for Russia
even though they are threatening checnya terror attacks on their olympics next year if they dont comply
the Israel angle is a whole other side of the story but not the main impetus here..but a major actor involved yes - so much of their drama is propaganda
the usa is muscle and consumption.. like a whole pack of pit bulls.. they haven't had a say since JFK
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Very ashamed of my country... WTF are we doing, once again warring a country half way around the world.
Fuck.. What country accepts American refugees?
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I grew up believing I lived in the greatest country on Earth. As a kid, being patriotic was the shit! America was awesome I thought! Until I grew up, and got old enough to realize how shady our whole government is. It's a shame to realize you've been manipulated and fed bullshit by your country your whole life.
It's wonderful when a person breaks free of the mental shackles he grew up with. I congratulate you.
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I have to agree with you on most of what you said apart from the Israel Zionism, i am not against jews, christians, muslims etc but Zionism is a ridiculous concept. Are you aware that Palestine was a country until the British gave it over to the jews after the war, are you aware that Israeli settlers evict villages of palestinians and built illegally on land that is not theirs. Are you also aware that a huge fucking wall dividing the people was constructed, the people beyond this wall are bombarded with drone attacks and the IDF brutalize and take away children and men from their families for "disruptive" behavior. These same people are denied access to hospitals and have the amount of food limited to a set calories per day...rationed.
Israel as a country is a monster, if you look beyond what the west or the east potrays it as and actually go look for yourself you will see. Have you left your country and been to see the suffering the Palestinian people suffer at the hands of Israelis? I imagine not. Watch the documentary "5 broken cameras", a friend of mine was involved in the final production of it. Go visit Israel and head out to Gaza and then tell me that Zionism is not a problem. I have friends who are orthodox jews and part of a big movement, jews against zionism. I cannot abide racism and although i think all religions are stupid, people are entitled to believe in what they want.
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I have to agree with you on most of what you said apart from the Israel Zionism, i am not against jews, christians, muslims etc but Zionism is a ridiculous concept. Are you aware that Palestine was a country until the British gave it over to the jews after the war, are you aware that Israeli settlers evict villages of palestinians and built illegally on land that is not theirs. Are you also aware that a huge fucking wall dividing the people was constructed, the people beyond this wall are bombarded with drone attacks and the IDF brutalize and take away children and men from their families for "disruptive" behavior. These same people are denied access to hospitals and have the amount of food limited to a set calories per day...rationed.
Israel as a country is a monster, if you look beyond what the west or the east potrays it as and actually go look for yourself you will see. Have you left your country and been to see the suffering the Palestinian people suffer at the hands of Israelis? I imagine not. Watch the documentary "5 broken cameras", a friend of mine was involved in the final production of it. Go visit Israel and head out to Gaza and then tell me that Zionism is not a problem. I have friends who are orthodox jews and part of a big movement, jews against zionism. I cannot abide racism and although i think all religions are stupid, people are entitled to believe in what they want.
Zionism is completely fucked. Go learn about and read Roi Tov's books
also, WWI was swung because of the Britain deal of giving Palestine to Jews..before that, there was lots of jewish support of Germany against Britain. that move turned the tide and is one of the main reasons that led to Hitler/WWII
Zionism is completely psychotic and is not even good for Judism/Jewish people.
Go try to attend a Zionism meeting/conference in your town and see how much you get questioned before you can even sniff the inside of the place..they'll cry anti-semetic unless you bend over and take it up the ass blindfolded by them
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I have to agree with you on most of what you said apart from the Israel Zionism, i am not against jews, christians, muslims etc but Zionism is a ridiculous concept. Are you aware that Palestine was a country until the British gave it over to the jews after the war, are you aware that Israeli settlers evict villages of palestinians and built illegally on land that is not theirs. Are you also aware that a huge fucking wall dividing the people was constructed, the people beyond this wall are bombarded with drone attacks and the IDF brutalize and take away children and men from their families for "disruptive" behavior. These same people are denied access to hospitals and have the amount of food limited to a set calories per day...rationed.
Israel as a country is a monster, if you look beyond what the west or the east potrays it as and actually go look for yourself you will see. Have you left your country and been to see the suffering the Palestinian people suffer at the hands of Israelis? I imagine not. Watch the documentary "5 broken cameras", a friend of mine was involved in the final production of it. Go visit Israel and head out to Gaza and then tell me that Zionism is not a problem. I have friends who are orthodox jews and part of a big movement, jews against zionism. I cannot abide racism and although i think all religions are stupid, people are entitled to believe in what they want.
Zionism is completely fucked. Go learn about and read Roi Tov's books
also, WWI was swung because of the Britain deal of giving Palestine to Jews..before that, there was lots of jewish support of Germany against Britain. that move turned the tide and is one of the main reasons that led to Hitler/WWII
Zionism is completely psychotic and is not even good for Judism/Jewish people.
Go try to attend a Zionism meeting/conference in your town and see how much you get questioned before you can even sniff the inside of the place..they'll cry anti-semetic unless you bend over and take it up the ass blindfolded by them
A slave does not wish to become a equal but to become the master...
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America have enslvaed millions of peaceful people and make them work for cents on the dollar. Why is america the "moral protector", america does not have any morals.
Fuck america. I hope it burns and I get to enjoy the pleasure of seeing DEA buildings burned to the ground and blown up.
The real terrorists are here in the white house.
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Yep, glad ppl and now the general public can see what kind of Government they have. It's a Government that smiles in your face while it sticks it's hands in all your pockets and takes away each one of your rights little by little everyday. Until we're left with a broken down shell of a democratic system that would make Marxism look like a better alternative to reach a moral higher ground.
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All I know is we can't let a tyrant get away with using chemical weapons on his own people. That would send a bad signal. The US does not want to take sides in this civil war. There are no good options here. We are winding down two wars in the Middle East and nobody wants a third one. Syria is so complicated, with all its various factions with animosities going back to the Middle Ages. There is no way we can decide the outcome of a Shia/Alawite alliance vs. a Sunni rebellion. But Assad must be slapped down and punished for unleashing the sarin gas. It will probably take less than 48 hours to complete whatever precision strikes need to occur. No boots on the ground. We are not declaring "war" on Syria. We don't want anything to do with that mess but Assad forced our hand...we can't sit idly by (like we've done in the past) and inhumanely let leaders of nations gas their own citizens.
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Currently, 1/5 of the lebanese population is syrian refugees, similar cases in jordan and turkey, the whole region is suffering, not only syrian rebels. So it would be much better if someone can end this war. In cases like this, we should prefer peace over justice, i dont care if he used the sarin or not, he must move away and let the whole region cool down.
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Currently, 1/5 of the lebanese population is syrian refugees, similar cases in jordan and turkey, the whole region is suffering, not only syrian rebels. So it would be much better if someone can end this war. In cases like this, we should prefer peace over justice, i dont care if he used the sarin or not, he must move away and let the whole region cool down.
Removing Assad wont let the region cool down, i believe it will aggravate the region more. He allows and protects Christians and Muslims, keeping Syria a multicultural country with free religious practice. He keeps the tribes from killing eachother and allows minorities. He may be fucked up and may be a dictator but take him a way and it will chaos, expect the jihidists to purge Syria of non muslims and the bloody will be on our hands if we aid them!
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It's funny to read all the conspiracy theories that people believe. I swear people just grab them out of thin air:
America wants all the gas and oil, America's been trying for 50 yrs to depose Syrian leaders, America wants to enslave millions to work for pennies on the dollar, Israel and America and some Zionist plot ...
There is no oil or gas to speak of in Syria. Syria is a speck of dust on the global stage. The biggest threat Syria holds is against Israel, who is an American ally and people act like this is a secret conspiracy. It's not. It's a well known relationship. There is simply NO strategic advantage for the US to become involved in Syrian affairs. Yet they may, and this is due entirely to the breaking of International law against chemical weapon use and public opinion. There really is no secret here.
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Currently, 1/5 of the lebanese population is syrian refugees, similar cases in jordan and turkey, the whole region is suffering, not only syrian rebels. So it would be much better if someone can end this war. In cases like this, we should prefer peace over justice, i dont care if he used the sarin or not, he must move away and let the whole region cool down.
Removing Assad wont let the region cool down, i believe it will aggravate the region more. He allows and protects Christians and Muslims, keeping Syria a multicultural country with free religious practice. He keeps the tribes from killing eachother and allows minorities. He may be fucked up and may be a dictator but take him a way and it will chaos, expect the jihidists to purge Syria of non muslims and the bloody will be on our hands if we aid them!
Mmm you are right, there is no clear plan who is going to fill the position of Assad. But what is the solution?
Believe me the situation is intense here in the middle east, i can see syrian refugees everywhere in large numbers, they will steal, kill and do whatever they can to get some food or money.
I think this situation should go for 1 of 2 extreme options, us strike attack or chemical weapons.
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All I know is we can't let a tyrant get away with using chemical weapons on his own people. That would send a bad signal.
Short memory? We supported Saddam in doing the same things when we sided with him vs Iran.. he hit Iran and supporters of Iran with chems that US and Brits gave him
USA has gone full imperial death star but sadly they are really a tool for the international elites that do not really have any sovereign base.. they are parasites that go from host to host
At least Hitler was patriotic.. I have no clue what any common person gains from this NWO globalization except debt slavery
I think Gaddafi was the last true great leader for his people that we'll see in a while.. RIP (if you are shocked by this, go read all the things a Libyan citizen got while he was ruler.. you will be floored, and then disgusted of NATO/NWO even more for killing him)
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buy oil
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If Syrian rebels used poison gas, would the USA bomb them?
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Right, the United States turned a blind eye when Saddam gassed his own Kurdish population, and then again during the Iran/Iraq war when chemical weapons were used against the Iranians. So this time the proper response will be to punish the Assad regime for using these weapons against their own people.
But it's not quite so simple. Syria is very complex. How does this chemical attack, that perhaps killed 1400 people, merit extra special attention within a a civil war where 100,000 people have been killed by explosions, executions, ethnic cleansing, etc. etc. I am changing my mind by the minute on this issue b/c it begs the question that the US either has to go in BIG and topple Assad or just do nothing....we can't do small, limited strikes...and then go away. That would be pointless.... UGH...there are no good options here. :o ::)
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Right, the United States turned a blind eye when Saddam gassed his own Kurdish population, and then again during the Iran/Iraq war when chemical weapons were used against the Iranians.
The United States also turned a blind eye when the British gassed the Kurds, the authorisation for it coming from that staunch defender of human rights, Winston Churchill.
The United States also considered using poisoned gas to support their planned invasion of Japan, but were deprived of the opportunity by the Japanese surrender.
These were not recent events, but to those who remember them it does not seem so long ago.
The use of poison gas went out of fashion not because it was inhumane, but because the permanent members of the UN Security Council had nuclear weapons which were able to kill more people in less time.
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Cui bono
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The United States also turned a blind eye when the British gassed the Kurds, the authorisation for it coming from that staunch defender of human rights, Winston Churchill.
There is actually no evidence this took place. Certainly Churchill ARGUED for the use of Tear Gas (rather than lethal gas such as Mustard Gas) but even so, even Tear Gas was not used. A US senator and some historians have claimed gas WAS used, but only through argument. Not a single one of them has actually presented the EVIDENCE of it.
Read:
A December 2009 article in the Journal of Modern History by R.M. Douglas of Colgate University went through the known sources and concluded that: "While at various moments tear gas munitions were available in Mesopotamia, circumstances seeming to call for their use existed, and official sanction to employ them had been received, at no time during the period of the mandate did all three of these conditions apply", and that it was clear that no poison gas was used. Douglas observed that Churchill's forceful statement had served to convince observers of the existence of weapons of mass destruction which were not actually there, which ironically matched events in 2003.
So this is (a) dealing with tear gas not a substance like Sarin or Mustard Gas and (b) it was only a threat - it never actually took place.
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All I know is we can't let a tyrant get away with using chemical weapons on his own people. That would send a bad signal.
Short memory? We supported Saddam in doing the same things when we sided with him vs Iran.. he hit Iran and supporters of Iran with chems that US and Brits gave him
One, there is no firm evidence that it was Assad who used CW. It very well could have been the "rebels" to spur a US attack.
And two, the US has used CW countless times in the past: Vietnam (agent orange and napalm; kids are STILL being born with deformities), Fallujah (white phosphorus, depleted uranium; ditto with Iraqi kids), Japan (WWII, napalm, oh and don't forget those pesky nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Yes, US permitted S. Hussein to bomb Iranian soldiers with CW during the eight year long Iraq-Iran war. US also helped and permitted Israel to use CW on Palestinians and Lebanese. Do we really need to go on?
The imperial ambitions of the west (read US and UK) toward Syria is spelled g-a-s p-i-p-e-l-i-n-e from Qatar through Syria to ships for Europe and for Israel. Kind of cutting off Russia at the knees.
Come on, people, wake up!
goblin
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So this is (a) dealing with tear gas not a substance like Sarin or Mustard Gas and (b) it was only a threat - it never actually took place.
Thank you for the clarification.
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So this is (a) dealing with tear gas not a substance like Sarin or Mustard Gas and (b) it was only a threat - it never actually took place.
Thank you for the clarification.
You're welcome.
However, CH did use them on Russians in 1919, they were used on Indians as test-subjects during CW development in the 1930s (causing some horrific injuries), and - despite being a signatory against their use - CH had prepared the use of Mustard Gas in the event of a German invasion. He also proposed the use of both Chemical AND Biological weapons, as first-strike attacks on Germany, later in the war. Again, despite being a signatory against their use. War commanders/Whitehall basically blocked his proposal.
Funnily enough the Nazis refused to use CWs in response to the British invasions - on moral grounds.
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I imagine if the US as does not help the rebels. And if the rebels win then the US and the New Syrian government would be on better terms. Then if they do nothing and then when the dust clears there will be a lot off resentment to towards the US. For not helping them in there struggles for a Syria free form stalin style oppression.
I have Syrian friend. And they told me that there are government informants every where. And all lot of people have simply disappear and never to be hurt form again. If its really true that the US want to bring freedom and democracy or what ever they should act. I also imagine that if the US would help the rebels. That would go a long way to restoring relation between Muslim and the US.
Alqaida does not hate the US because it the US. ALqaida and other Islamic faction hate US because of its selfish and hypocrite policies and sticking its nose in to business that do not real concern them expect when there own interests of power and control are treat-end,
I am Muslim and I do not hate America or its people, I hate there Zionist agenda.
I will you all the best
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It's kind of like the Iran-Iraq war (which was about as close to a perfect war as you can get). Pity they both can't lose.
Neither side is remotely palatable. If the Free Syrian Army wins, the moderate wing will go the same way as the moderates who helped overthrow the Shah. Assad's a cunt, pure and simple. The world would be a much better place if they just fought it out and managed to kill each other stone dead.
Here's what we should do in Syria. Contain the conflict, protect our strategic allies Jordan and Israel. (Turkey can look after itself) Then arm the side that's losing. Then, when they start winning, arm the other side. Let them slaughter each other. No, help them to slaughter each other. Down to the last man. Let all the Sunni radicals in to help out; but don't forget Hizballah, either! And if the Iranians enter the fray...jackpot.
Seriously, there's nothing worth saving in that part of the world.
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It's kind of like the Iran-Iraq war (which was about as close to a perfect war as you can get). Pity they both can't lose.
Neither side is remotely palatable. If the Free Syrian Army wins, the moderate wing will go the same way as the moderates who helped overthrow the Shah. Assad's a cunt, pure and simple. The world would be a much better place if they just fought it out and managed to kill each other stone dead.
Here's what we should do in Syria. Contain the conflict, protect our strategic allies Jordan and Israel. (Turkey can look after itself) Then arm the side that's losing. Then, when they start winning, arm the other side. Let them slaughter each other. No, help them to slaughter each other. Down to the last man. Let all the Sunni radicals in to help out; but don't forget Hizballah, either! And if the Iranians enter the fray...jackpot.
Seriously, there's nothing worth saving in that part of the world.
Recycling the area.. Good idea.. But seriously, there is few people worth saving.