Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: entreterra on July 20, 2013, 07:39 pm
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Hi all,
I'm curious how frequently and for how long one must take benzo's for withdrawal to occur once you are without them. I recently acquired some for the purpose of having on hand for post-mdma and as a means for softening a bad psychedelic experience.
I have been experimenting though with them for the past several days (less than two weeks). The benzo in question is valium and the dosage never exceeds 10mg a day except one experience of 20mg over the course of the day. Use has not been daily, but roughly every 2-3 days. I've used approx 70mg in 10-14 days. I rarely desire to dose multiple days in a row because the calmness lasts well into the next day, which is another reason I enjoy them.
I've enjoyed the mildness of the sedation compared to things like xanax which I dislike very much other than it's ability to knock me out quickly or quell heavy stimulation. Valium on the other hand is very pleasant and not impairing in the least. The only thing I slightly dislike is my motivation to do things is taken down a notch or two but not even as much as smoking a bowl does; plus that is to be expected with a benzo.
I don't plan to go through my whole stock as I really got them for come-down purposes as described above, but I was wondering how long I might be able to continue this pattern without any withdrawal occuring once I stop.
Thanks for any advice
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I am not a doctor so don't take this as medical advice, but I will describe my experiences.
I enjoy using xanax to help me get to sleep after doing LSD or MDMA. I personally believe you can avoid addiction to benzos by following basic rules. My personal rules are:
- Take it only to get to sleep, not during the day. Only once per day.
- Do not take more than 2mg, if 2mg is not working then I need to take less not more
- Do not take it more than 3 times a week
- Go 5 consecutive days without it every 14 days
The first 3 rules are designed to prevent forming a significant tolerance. The last rule is more of a test. If I can go 5 days and not have terrible withdrawl then I am not addicted. If I do suffer withdrawl I would begin a weening regiment.
I have been doing xanax for about 2 years and my consumption has been stable and I have been able to live with these rules. The worst I have experienced was a few nights that it took me till 3-4am to get to sleep, not the end of the world.
Benzo withdrawl is nasty, I have not experienced it myself but friends have told me how terrible it can be. If you have an addiction and you stop outright it can result in fatal seizures. You want to ween if you are in that situation.
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excellent advice, thank you for the detailed response, Tess.
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Valium can be a very deceptive drug though. It's half-life depends between persons, but generally is anything from 2 days to a full week when you include active metabolites. If you have taken a valium 2 days ago, it does not mean that you are not under its influene anymore at all.
Something like xanax is much less forgiving. While about 20 times as potent as valium per mg, it also has a much shorter half life - something in the order of 6 to 12 hours.
This gives valium the nice property of being able to got without ingesting any for fairly long peroids of time - several days in some people, a full day in most. Reality is that if you took 20 mg of valium yesterday, the equivalent of taking > 10 mg today is still in your system today.
I'm not advocating against valium as such, but just be aware that it can take a very long time to clear your system compared to something like xanax, and this may convince you not to be addicted whilst you actually are.
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I am not a doctor so don't take this as medical advice, but I will describe my experiences.
I enjoy using xanax to help me get to sleep after doing LSD or MDMA. I personally believe you can avoid addiction to benzos by following basic rules. My personal rules are:
- Take it only to get to sleep, not during the day. Only once per day.
- Do not take more than 2mg, if 2mg is not working then I need to take less not more
- Do not take it more than 3 times a week
- Go 5 consecutive days without it every 14 days
The first 3 rules are designed to prevent forming a significant tolerance. The last rule is more of a test. If I can go 5 days and not have terrible withdrawl then I am not addicted. If I do suffer withdrawl I would begin a weening regiment.
I have been doing xanax for about 2 years and my consumption has been stable and I have been able to live with these rules. The worst I have experienced was a few nights that it took me till 3-4am to get to sleep, not the end of the world.
Benzo withdrawl is nasty, I have not experienced it myself but friends have told me how terrible it can be. If you have an addiction and you stop outright it can result in fatal seizures. You want to ween if you are in that situation.
What Tessellated said.
Personally I cannot use xanax without falling asleep, unless it's after a lot of stimulants. Then it just brings me down a lot and relaxes me.
1mg Xanax on it's own will put me to sleep within 15 minutes. I don't use it more than once or twice a week. usually only if I can't sleep or when I am coming off stimulants.
I wouldn't say that I've "experimented" with it though. I haven't found it to be very interesting. Just makes me relax and fucks my memory and makes me clumsy.
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Even at conservative doses it can mess up your memory severely, especially when taken with (even very moderate amounts of ) alcohol - and i presume other drugs too.
For the benzodiazepine/alcohol mixture the memory loss is nearly completely anterograde however - you will remember everything up the point of taking both, and sometimes very little or nothing after. This could be beneficial to 'delete' a boring long haul flight from your memory, but the downside is that you are clueless what you did during that time, no matter how crazy it was.
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I don't wish to downplay a potentially dangerous substance, but I used to take Xanax daily and legally for anxiety, 1-2 mg, and there've been times where I've felt bored and irresponsible and taken higher binge doses.
I've never once had withdrawal symptoms or cravings. Perhaps I'm a hopelessly deluded Xanax junkie, but I'd beg to differ given how the bottle I refilled a month ago is still almost entirely full and how I still have a scrip for an additional bottle.