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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: dextro dave on September 21, 2012, 12:26 am

Title: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: dextro dave on September 21, 2012, 12:26 am
How many months/years do you have to be taking amphetamine before its pro-social and/or euphoric effects go away or significantly diminish?

Secondary question: Is there a way to reverse tolerance to what it was before you started taking the drug? If I stop taking it for a month, will i get the same effects that i got when i first started?



I've been taking dexedrine for about four months, and I still find it very pro-social and i still get a euphoria, although the euphoria is diminishing. i take it about three times a week.

I'm concerned that if i keep taking dexedrine on a weekly basis, it will eventually not work for me the way i want it to, and i will have to switch to methamphetamine or cocaine.

The question concerns Dexedrine, Adderall, and similar amphetamine drugs.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: le botbahn on September 21, 2012, 03:01 am
I took it for 2+ years and never noticed much of difference. I'd take it daily, often more than needed which would force a break period of a week or so.when my monthly supplh ran out. I'm sur that helped limit tolerance.

On the other hand, I've known people prescribed doses far greater than the typical limit with no reported tolerance issues.

IME, if you stick with oral ROA, you'll find your sweet spot.and it won't change much, if any, so long as you don't start drastically upping your doses. For me that was easy, anything beyond 60 mg/day had diminishing returns due to side unpleaeant side.effects.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: simantecort on September 21, 2012, 03:32 am
the euphoric effects may drop off a little if you take really large doses. the larger the dose, the worse the tolerance. if you keep upping the dose, of course, you will be able to keep getting that euphoric buzz. even if you maintain the dose, the social effects should not diminish much. however, doing large doses of amphetamines even once a week can cause semi-reversible damage to your dopamine receptors and mostly reversible damage to your serotonin receptors. when i used to extract dextro and take the pure stuff sublingually (best way to get high dose dextro into your body fast, its 99.5% bioavailability), i would immediately notice that this drug was going to fuck me up if i kept doing it. the euphoric effect of dextroamphetamine alone is so great, but the more you take it, the more you need. this is the reason a lot of users switch to meth. its kind of like how painkiller addicts switch to heroin, though i think this is worse because you can become socially dependent on the amphetamines. whats more, think about all the other side effects you get from dexedrine. i don't know about you, but i simply can't eat all day when i take dextro. food becomes disgusting to me. although i quit cigarettes a while ago, when i used to take dextro a few times a week, i would compulsively smoke at least a pack a day. i think if you stop for a month, your tolerance will definitely go down. there is not so much permanent tolerance with dextroamphetamine. though i love the way dextro feels, it is truly one of my favorite drugs with such a clean euphoric high, i recognize that if you're taking high doses (more than 60mg) this one is best taken in moderation. not more than once or twice a month, if you dont want to sustain weight loss and possible personality changes. it's nothing your body and mind can't recover from, but its best not to go down that road in the first place.

sawyer
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: dextro dave on September 21, 2012, 04:16 am
the euphoric effects may drop off a little if you take really large doses. the larger the dose, the worse the tolerance. if you keep upping the dose, of course, you will be able to keep getting that euphoric buzz. even if you maintain the dose, the social effects should not diminish much. however, doing large doses of amphetamines even once a week can cause semi-reversible damage to your dopamine receptors and mostly reversible damage to your serotonin receptors. when i used to extract dextro and take the pure stuff sublingually (best way to get high dose dextro into your body fast, its 99.5% bioavailability), i would immediately notice that this drug was going to fuck me up if i kept doing it. the euphoric effect of dextroamphetamine alone is so great, but the more you take it, the more you need. this is the reason a lot of users switch to meth. its kind of like how painkiller addicts switch to heroin, though i think this is worse because you can become socially dependent on the amphetamines. whats more, think about all the other side effects you get from dexedrine. i don't know about you, but i simply can't eat all day when i take dextro. food becomes disgusting to me. although i quit cigarettes a while ago, when i used to take dextro a few times a week, i would compulsively smoke at least a pack a day. i think if you stop for a month, your tolerance will definitely go down. there is not so much permanent tolerance with dextroamphetamine. though i love the way dextro feels, it is truly one of my favorite drugs with such a clean euphoric high, i recognize that if you're taking high doses (more than 60mg) this one is best taken in moderation. not more than once or twice a month, if you dont want to sustain weight loss and possible personality changes. it's nothing your body and mind can't recover from, but its best not to go down that road in the first place.

sawyer
if i could give you karma i would.

since you seem to know a lot about this drug, i have another question for you. concerning the risk of damage to the dopamine receptors, is there any good evidence that this can occur even at dosages as low as 15-20mg a day of pharmaceutical dexedrine? I seem to be sensitive to amphetamines, and rarely go over 20mg. Even 5mg is 'good enough' if i'm running low. People have been taking the drug their entire adult lives without suffering from any appreciable impairments of cognition.

do you believe that amphetamines have any serious risk of cardiotoxicity?

as regards appetite suppression, it is the main thing i dislike about amphetamines, but on the other hand, it forces me to plan my meals rationally instead of eating whatever fills me up the most. i also find my appetite to be an annoying distraction when i'm working or studying.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 21, 2012, 04:21 am
You should be taking it daily if you are truly using it medicinally, at a stable dose, and euphoria should not be anywhere near the top of the priority list for that type of medication.  It seems like your more interested in recreation, euphoric effect which is not what ADD medication is really about. I mean you can use speed recreationally and I have no problem with that, but yea, that qualifies as amphetamine abuse and I don't know why that would be your drug of choice to abuse as far as euphoria seeking. It's a tool, that is useful in life often, thats it. But if your into that speed euphoria sure try Meth out, seems like thats the direction your headed anyway.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 21, 2012, 04:27 am
the euphoric effects may drop off a little if you take really large doses. the larger the dose, the worse the tolerance. if you keep upping the dose, of course, you will be able to keep getting that euphoric buzz. even if you maintain the dose, the social effects should not diminish much. however, doing large doses of amphetamines even once a week can cause semi-reversible damage to your dopamine receptors and mostly reversible damage to your serotonin receptors. when i used to extract dextro and take the pure stuff sublingually (best way to get high dose dextro into your body fast, its 99.5% bioavailability), i would immediately notice that this drug was going to fuck me up if i kept doing it. the euphoric effect of dextroamphetamine alone is so great, but the more you take it, the more you need. this is the reason a lot of users switch to meth. its kind of like how painkiller addicts switch to heroin, though i think this is worse because you can become socially dependent on the amphetamines. whats more, think about all the other side effects you get from dexedrine. i don't know about you, but i simply can't eat all day when i take dextro. food becomes disgusting to me. although i quit cigarettes a while ago, when i used to take dextro a few times a week, i would compulsively smoke at least a pack a day. i think if you stop for a month, your tolerance will definitely go down. there is not so much permanent tolerance with dextroamphetamine. though i love the way dextro feels, it is truly one of my favorite drugs with such a clean euphoric high, i recognize that if you're taking high doses (more than 60mg) this one is best taken in moderation. not more than once or twice a month, if you dont want to sustain weight loss and possible personality changes. it's nothing your body and mind can't recover from, but its best not to go down that road in the first place.

sawyer

Some sound advice in there but mostly directions on exactly how to abuse prescription amphetamines.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: simantecort on September 21, 2012, 04:37 am
to put it simply, it is the dopamine "release" that itself causes neurotoxicity, which is really just a fancy word for dopamine or serotonin receptor depletion. if you are sensitive to the drug's subjective effects, you will be equally sensitive to its neurotoxic effects. the more you feel the dopamine rush, the more your dopamine receptors are being depleted in a sense. however, it is hard to gauge whether you are indeed chemically sensitive to the effects or are simply psychologically sensitive. it is unlikely that 5-20mg a day would have neurotoxic effects, but again it is not black and white. kids who do low doses of amphetamines invariably exhibit some degree of growth stunting. age is certainly a factor in the harmful effects of the drug, as well as personal chemistry, which is impossible for you to measure. for this reason, it's best to err on the side of caution and not take any potentially neurotoxic drug more than a few times a month. you may be fine, but on the other hand, you may not. is it really worth the risk? i asked myself the same question, and for that reason gave it up. i have heard many anecdotal reports of amphetamine's long-term safety, but it goes directly contrary to chemical studies demonstrating neurotoxicity to multiple receptors, notably 5-HT and DA. i would say if anyone used amphetamine for their entire life, the chemical almost certainly had an effect on their brain's gene expression, neuroreceptor density, etc. however, how these factors translate to psychological disabilities is not well-understood. some people can become permanently disabled from a few drug experiences, while others can use drugs their entire life and perform excellently. even though these people don't *notice* any behavioral or psychological problems, there are probably structural differences in their brain. what concerns me about your case is that you are able to get an effective dose from just 20mg, which suggests to me that you already have a low density of 5-HT receptors. messing with them more could be irreversible! though, it could not, and i don't claim to know what the outcome will be. even PhDs in neurochemistry and molecular biology would be unable to give you a definitive answer, because the brain is so poorly understood. but the best way to deal with all drugs is in moderation, since although the precaution may be unnecessary, you can't really guarantee your safety if you take drugs all the time. even marijuana can have permanent effects if used chronically.

sawyer
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: simantecort on September 21, 2012, 04:40 am
Some sound advice in there but mostly directions on exactly how to abuse prescription amphetamines.

the line between use and abuse is exactly what the user makes it. sublingual administration of 5mg could be considered abuse, while oral administration of 20mg could be considered psychologically necessary by a pharmaceutical professional. who is to set the standards? thousands of people die from taking prescribed diabetes medication every year, yet millions of people use illegal drugs safely every day. to separate drug administration into two categories, proper use and improper abuse, is a naive way of looking at chemistry.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 21, 2012, 02:26 pm
Some sound advice in there but mostly directions on exactly how to abuse prescription amphetamines.

the line between use and abuse is exactly what the user makes it. sublingual administration of 5mg could be considered abuse, while oral administration of 20mg could be considered psychologically necessary by a pharmaceutical professional. who is to set the standards? thousands of people die from taking prescribed diabetes medication every year, yet millions of people use illegal drugs safely every day. to separate drug administration into two categories, proper use and improper abuse, is a naive way of looking at chemistry.

Right, I wasn't speaking to specific type of administration, more so the underlyring reason you are using a substance. If you are using amphetamines strictly to experience euphoria, not only would I say you should find I different drug of choice that is more euphoric, but that is recreational use and being that it is a prescription drug, purely recreation use IS abuse. I have had 3 shoulder surgeries, so as far as opioids its a gray area for me cause I constantly am in pain but I also always enjoy the euphoric buzz that comes with it, you can't really separate the analgesia from the euphoria.  However, once I am completely pain free, which I will be eventually assuming I don't re-injure my surgically repaired shoulders, if I continue to do painkillers that will be purely recreational and that will be abuse of that substance, I will be the first to admit it. That is the difference to me.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 21, 2012, 06:23 pm
When it comes to something like marijuana or alcohol, which is recreational bout 98% of the time, its more about how much you use it to be abuse (especially with alcohol). But prescription drugs, although I really like them, should be respected and if there is no medicinal aspect of using them whatsoever (for example taking xanax when you have absolutely no anxiety or insomnia, just to get fucked up) than that is abuse.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: painbow on September 21, 2012, 06:41 pm
The smart way to use it is to ONLY use the dose that makes your productivity goes up without much euphoria.  That dose may be as low as 2.5mg to 5mg.  Don't try to get the euphoria and take breaks in between the days of use.

If you're looking for party drug, look for other stimulants like MDMA or M1.  Dexedrine is a better productivity tool than social drug.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: simantecort on September 21, 2012, 06:54 pm
i have ADD and have never considered using dextroamphetamine or any amphetamines with the prescribed use. using even a low dose every day is worse for your mind than abusing a high dose every now and then. in fact, it is my personal opinion that amphetamines should not be prescribed for ADD or ADHD. i think the side effects of using low dose amphetamines every day vastly outweigh the potential productivity benefits. for this reason, i have always used my script sparingly, but when i use it i certainly seek the euphoria. why should it matter what my reason for taking the drug is? all that matters to me is that i not damage my brain.

sawyer
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: painbow on September 21, 2012, 07:07 pm
i have ADD and have never considered using dextroamphetamine or any amphetamines with the prescribed use. using even a low dose every day is worse for your mind than abusing a high dose every now and then. in fact, it is my personal opinion that amphetamines should not be prescribed for ADD or ADHD. i think the side effects of using low dose amphetamines every day vastly outweigh the potential productivity benefits. for this reason, i have always used my script sparingly, but when i use it i certainly seek the euphoria. why should it matter what my reason for taking the drug is? all that matters to me is that i not damage my brain.

sawyer

Do you still use amphetamine Rx for the productivity purposes?  How do you deal with your ADD knowing the adverse effects of frequent amphetamine use.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: simantecort on September 21, 2012, 07:23 pm
i deal with it without drugs. in fact, i have come to believe ADD is a disorder at least exaggerated, and possibly made up by the pharmaceutical industry for the purpose of selling amphetamines. truth be told, my diagnosis as ADD has helped my productivity. the ability to multiprocess and manage many things in my head in short amounts of time is what first made me concerned i had some kind of disorder, but meditation has allowed me to hone these skills into something that can actually help me. now i can control my focus without drugs, which is something i think we should all aspire to, since it is a lot healthier. a good exercise regimen and healthy diet can make a world of difference. of course, you won't get either one if you're on amphetamines all the time!

sawyer
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: painbow on September 21, 2012, 07:38 pm
i deal with it without drugs. in fact, i have come to believe ADD is a disorder at least exaggerated, and possibly made up by the pharmaceutical industry for the purpose of selling amphetamines. truth be told, my diagnosis as ADD has helped my productivity. the ability to multiprocess and manage many things in my head in short amounts of time is what first made me concerned i had some kind of disorder, but meditation has allowed me to hone these skills into something that can actually help me. now i can control my focus without drugs, which is something i think we should all aspire to, since it is a lot healthier. a good exercise regimen and healthy diet can make a world of difference. of course, you won't get either one if you're on amphetamines all the time!

sawyer

werd up brotha.  ADD shit is blown way out of proportion.  ADD itself is not a myth though. I have seen kids with REAL ADD who actually has no impulse control.  You can actually tell they are actually missing a screw or two.  But, real ADD is RARE.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: dextro dave on September 21, 2012, 10:00 pm
The smart way to use it is to ONLY use the dose that makes your productivity goes up without much euphoria.  That dose may be as low as 2.5mg to 5mg.  Don't try to get the euphoria and take breaks in between the days of use.

If you're looking for party drug, look for other stimulants like MDMA or M1.  Dexedrine is a better productivity tool than social drug.
I've tried all of the popular drugs, and in the final analysis, dextro-amphetamine is the best social drug suitable for regular use. The only drug that is better in this respect is MDMA, but I wouldn't take MDMA more than a few times a year even if it were freely given to me.

If you are aware of non-amphetamine drug that increases your verbal fluency, talkativeness, self-confidence, etc., while making you feel energised, focused, and euhorphic, then by all means let me know. I've never heard of any such drug.

Alcohol, benzos, cannabis -- these no doubt work for some people, but for me they are garbage when used recreationlally. I need drugs that give me energy and focus, not take away what little I have.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 22, 2012, 05:05 am
. a good exercise regimen and healthy diet can make a world of difference. of course, you won't get either one if you're on amphetamines all the time!

sawyer

I really liked the rest of your post, but this final claim is outrageous. If you take prescription amphetamines exactly as prescribed (by a good, responsible doctor) that is exactly what they promote (a good exercise regimen and depending on you food choices a healthy or at least not gluttonous diet.)

Those are two of the major ways having Vyvanse prescribed improves my quality of life. Liked the rest of your post a lot, the last sentence is bullshit.

My two favorite adderall/vyvanse snacks are bananas and apples. By favorite weed snacks are kettle cooked salt n vinegar potato chips and McDonalds. My favorite thing to do on adderall/vyvanse is go for runs and play sports and/or do my shoulder PT and lift weights.  I really can't believe you would say such a thing, its so ignorant.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 22, 2012, 06:32 pm
"If you are aware of non-amphetamine drug that increases your verbal fluency, talkativeness, self-confidence, etc., while making you feel energised, focused, and euhorphic, then by all means let me know. I've never heard of any such drug."


Oxycodone...

Not that I would recommend it for such a purpose (because of addiction potential), but it does everything you just listed wonderfully, emphasis on energy and euphoria but certainly increases sociability in all aspects as well.
Title: Re: Amphetamine users: question
Post by: numbering on September 22, 2012, 08:22 pm
simantecort, I doubt that your point of view is a smart one. Would I take the risk of POTENTIALLY neurotoxicity while being able to function, focus, have a life, be productive and so on? I guess, I would. It's also not very intelligent to rely on a healthy life no matter what. I just assume that your ADD is not that severe, so you are able to live with it. more easy than others.