Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Crisis on January 12, 2012, 06:06 am

Title: Moneypak crack down
Post by: Crisis on January 12, 2012, 06:06 am
I just read that Moneypak is now clamping down on people buying bitcoins. That they're taking people's money but refusing to release their funds if they suspect illegal activity.

How serious is this? Has anyone have any experience with this? And is this more of a problem for sellers as they try to collect their funds or are buyers targeted as well?
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: club on January 12, 2012, 02:08 pm
I know I was a little disturbed by the messages on the Moneypak cards: "Use of this product is tracked" and "Transaction information and store surveillance images are used to help law enforcement solve crimes and make arrests".

Obviously scare tactics. If I'm sending my moneypak to a BTC trader, I don't see how that could go wrong, unless they bust the trader and go through all his transactions. Even then, getting bitcoins isn't illegal (yet). And that's the most they could prove... that I spent the moneypak for BTC. I could be spending those BTC on a number of legal shops.
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: Crisis on January 12, 2012, 04:37 pm
That's what I thought. I couldn't see how they could possibly know who or where you were purchasing bitcoins from or why they should care unless that vendor was being targeted and had links to SR.

I was just wondering if there was any real world truth from the rumors or if it was some paranoid scare.
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: Aoth14 on January 12, 2012, 11:27 pm
They can't do anything, thats why the scare tactics.
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: doublemint on January 12, 2012, 11:34 pm
They can't do anything, thats why the scare tactics.
Yeah, they really can't do shit about it other than closing their company...
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: club on January 13, 2012, 04:19 pm
I just read something from a seller (different site) saying moneypak cut him off after receiving too many "usual transactions" from different locations. I also heard even if you don't trip their radar, they only allow a person to make 4 transactions a day, so the BTC traders aren't liking that. I get the feeling that for one reason or another, moneypak won't be a preferred method in the near future.
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: haxxtheplanet on January 14, 2012, 02:16 am
Moneypak has never been a good method for funding ever. You need scans of both the original receipts/cards everything or they'll seize your account once they notice too many reloads from too many locations.

Moneypak is designed for occaisonal reloads and using it to buy shit online. Once you start draining money from the card after a reload the money laundering alarms are tripped, say goodbye to your card. Sure you can mass buy cards, keep the scans and fight Moneypak but why bother when you can get payment cards without SSN totally anonymous and load it directly with bitcoins through exchangers in europe
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: MrDdroMcGillacutty on January 14, 2012, 07:14 am
I know I was a little disturbed by the messages on the Moneypak cards: "Use of this product is tracked" and "Transaction information and store surveillance images are used to help law enforcement solve crimes and make arrests".

Obviously scare tactics. If I'm sending my moneypak to a BTC trader, I don't see how that could go wrong, unless they bust the trader and go through all his transactions. Even then, getting bitcoins isn't illegal (yet). And that's the most they could prove... that I spent the moneypak for BTC. I could be spending those BTC on a number of legal shops.

WELL SAID. +1

Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: Aoth14 on January 14, 2012, 07:36 am
I know of miners who receive multiple MPs in one hours time period. I won't worry until they are worried. So far, as a whole, they are not.

I haven't tracked the ownership of the GreenDot branch yet, but it's hard to believe that a modern,monopolized financial group of any sort would reject income for any reason, other than pressure from a group of even higher influence,or for reasons of furthering a social/political agenda.

 So basically, I'm just watching what the Fed does. I know they won't cut off Moneypak until they have found a replacement income that meets and exceeds the corporations current intake (the only reason we are still oil dependent). But the day we're asked for ID at purchase, it's bye bye MP
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: DigitalDong on January 14, 2012, 06:15 pm
this maybe a dumb question but if they can track the MP's destination, cant they jsut as well find out where those MP orginated? (such as which store u bought from)....
me thinks BTC vendors need to keep that their only business in the states.. id hate to see a good vendor go down for possession just for using MP..
i dont know if its a scare tactic.. but LE's are drooling to find a way to get SR users somehow some way...
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: 100% American on January 14, 2012, 07:23 pm
Buying BitCoins violates the TOS(Terms Of Service) that Green Dot has implemented. Just as PayPal has restricted items, such a research chemicals known to be consumed for a high, firearms, sexually oriented materials, etc. etc. Green Dot does not allow users to purchase BitCoins using Green Dot MoneyPaks. Green Dot specifically states that no product owned by Green Dot can be used for commercial purposes unless said vendor/business registers and receives consent from Green Dot. Additionally, all BitCoin exchangers are required to follow federal laws pertaining to currency exchangers. By allowing their product to be the medium for BitCoin transactions Green Dot becomes a currency exchange. Green Dot has little interest in prosecuting people who purchase BitCoins. However, BitCoins has and will continue to seize money used in BitCoin transactions anytime they discover said transactions.

It’s hard to imagine that everyone on this thread doesn't understand the TOS that governs how products can be used. In this case, specifically, the TOS concerning MoneyPaks. It is unlikely that Green Dot will discover BitCoin purchases as long as the buyer and the seller shut the fuck up and conduct business in a covert manner. The majority of the people that have money seized are those that feel the need to call the company and complain. Additionally, BitCoin exchangers can have the money seized if they call the company and for any reason the company suspects BitCoin sales. Even if the company cannot PROVE BitCoin sales they can and do seize accounts just on suspicion. The US federal law fully supports Green Dots decision to seize all monies used to purchase BitCoins and all proceeds collected by exchangers. Below I have included a link that clearly outlines policies that support the decision to seize monies used for BitCoin transactions put in place by Green Dot. Keep in mind that the US federal government has officially declared BitCoins a currency therefore all currency traders MUST submit to all guidelines outlined on the link below. Green Dot is subject to prosecution if they allow currency trading using MoneyPak as a medium. Prosecution is inevitable unless Green Dot conforms to the same guidelines required by currency traders. In order to prove to the government that Green Dot does not support currency trading Green Dot is seizing all money associated with currency exchanges using the MoneyPak card. By doing this Green Dot is able to stay in the good graces of the US federal government.

It is inevitable that all companies being used to facilitate BitCoin exchanges will either submit to federal guidelines that apply to all currency exchangers, the federal government will fine the company thousands of dollars for each transaction(or worse), or the company will take aggressive actions to prevent BitCoin transactions. (This does not apply to companies in the EU)

It is important for customers to start doing some research. I know you guys do drugs but fuck. Its just like a loop of dumb shit over and over at times. Step it up and stop making all drug users look like brain dead morons. Why were the users at OVDB so intelligent while the average user on Silk Road seems completely devoid of intelligence?

Here is the link that contains all of the regulations that force Green Dot to take its current stance:

http://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/amlsourcetool.htm#3

This is one of the most damaging supporting components of the regulations utilized by Green Dot:

10. Information Sharing with Law Enforcement and Financial Institutions
Two provisions relating to information sharing were added to the BSA by the USA PATRIOT Act. One provision requires broker-dealers to respond to mandatory requests for information made by FinCEN on behalf of federal law enforcement agencies. The other provides a safe harbor to permit and facilitate voluntary information sharing among financial institutions.

Mandatory Information Sharing: Section 314(a) Requests: Broker-dealers are required to respond to requests for information made by federal law enforcement agencies. FinCEN, on behalf of a requesting Federal law enforcement agency, may require broker-dealers to search their records to determine whether they have accounts for, or have engaged in transactions with, any specified individual, entity, or organization. These requests are often referred to as “Section 314(a) information requests.” Broker-dealers must report to FinCEN if they have any account or transaction matching the information listed on the information request. Broker-dealers must also designate a contact person (typically the firm’s AML compliance officer) to receive the requests and must maintain the confidentiality of any request and any responsive reports to FinCEN.

Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: abuttelmao on January 17, 2012, 04:25 am
Very awesome and informative post.  I've always wondered just how safe and anonymous moneypaks are.  If you buy them with cash, I guess you're pretty safe - I'm sure that when you purchase with cash though, they're much more likely to flag the card and possibly deny your money.  Just a speculation, of course.
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: club on January 19, 2012, 02:28 am
Very awesome and informative post.  I've always wondered just how safe and anonymous moneypaks are.  If you buy them with cash, I guess you're pretty safe - I'm sure that when you purchase with cash though, they're much more likely to flag the card and possibly deny your money.  Just a speculation, of course.

I was under the belief that you could *only* use cash to get MP. At least that's how it was at my local convenience store. They wouldn't accept credit as a means of payment for it. Which I guess kind of makes sense. That MP is as good as cash, and they wouldnt want me contacting my credit card company and claiming I was frauded and the payment gets retracted or something like that. They want a non-rescindable method of payment.
Title: Re: Moneypak crack down
Post by: SuperDimitri on January 19, 2012, 03:28 am
Why were the users at OVDB so intelligent while the average user on Silk Road seems completely devoid of intelligence?

Probably because those users didn't go spouting off to the TV, Radio, & Print media about their site(but I'm kinda glad they did!). Sure wish I had been a part of it, I think. But again, if they're so smart, what happened to it? That's a serious inquiry. Because ever since the OVDB thread started up, it's been mostly about OVDB users bashing SR users. What the fuck is up with that? Where's the "collaboration" someone was posting about?
I am an average SR user. But I'm working on it. As I suppose all the people who post "stupid" things are.
Newbs are expected to find the info themselves, but post after post gets turned into a slurry of shit (that I now add to) that you have to try to decipher, WHILST being a dumb average Joe. I think some people's learning nature is different, don't you? It doesn't really make them dumb. Some have to do, and some  have to be shown.
I would also like to say y'all should take some pointers from the Shroomery forums. Those people have manners, and class.
Remember, we're all stars. And while some people aren't the  brightest stars in the galaxy. They're STILL stars.


As for the MP situation, I only used it once to try this out. From then on, it's been simple to acquire BTC, without the unholy premium. Your post was mostly (98%) informative, ans useful. don't take the criticisms too strongly.