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Discussion => Legal => Topic started by: thereisnospoon on August 06, 2013, 07:35 pm

Title: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: thereisnospoon on August 06, 2013, 07:35 pm
Ok here we go. I'm gonna get alot of attacks for this probably but I don't care anymore! If I get haters that means something is being done right! :) This was originally going to be posted in the thread "How to handle police" But I went a bit overboard.. and I'm too lazy to modify it at this point.


I'll start with some of the prior posts and then go into what I know personally. Stating "no comment" shows acceptance or "tacit acquiesence". All presumptions under law must be rebutted! All claims against your "person" (CHRISTIAN NAME) can be met with a counter-claim, this is a MAXIM OF LAW, which supercedes statutes and codes. (WHICH ARE NOT LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) They have the power and force of law because they are accepted by the general population because they don't know any damned better. Thanks to the programming of the "public fool system". Yes these "law enforcement officers" who took an oath as PEACE OFFICERS are trying to "charge" you under commerce. THIS IS WHY THEY ALL CARRY BUSINESS CARDS!! Ask any cop for one! They are "re-presenting" an agency which is a fiction non-profit corporation just the same as the courts! All the money they gather goes to the GAO(general accounting office) of each individual state and these funds go offshore to the slave colony owners. I won't go into further detail in that direction at this time. If you don't believe me you don't have to, I couldn't care less. Fact is DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU HAVEN'T CONFIRMED PERSONALLY!! Otherwise you're just spouting crap you "heard".

LEO's posing as Peace officers are nothing more than NWO security guards in my mind at this point. Yes they are to be taken seriously because as someone already stated they can and do harm quite often with no warrant/probable cause. We as a society of slaves (fear driven) have let this get entirely out of control!!! They only know what YOU tell them. Watch "First 48" and observe the cops taking bets on if the investigator can get them to confess. Without this confession the cops have generally nothing to present to the DA/prosecutor and they basically laugh at the cop and say get out of here with that weak case and bring me something real!

Generally as most people don't have the interest in law, but it should be a standard education for any man/woman to be able to handle their business and not transfer their eternal rights bestowed upon them by god/superior entity/cosmos to a BAR member attorney. (The King James Bible used to be a law text before the corruption of Corpus Juris Secundum and the BAR association) The prosecutor/DA, you're Attorney, and the Judge are all members of the same club people(BAR). WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Most people should simply stick to Power to Charm's post:

"I don't wish to answer any questions."

"I don't consent to any searches."

"Officer, am I free to go?"

(Repeat...)


You are always free to go because anything other actions by them constitute "False imprisonment" which basically you're not willing to sit around and stand for their questioning/harassment. You are asserting your right to contract and NOT contracting with these business people posing as Law Enforcement! False imprisonment happens anytime you are held against your will! This equates to kidnapping... If they keep you there against your will and state this in the form of a question (Am I being detained against my will?) it is a CRIME IN PROGRESS by LEO's by violating your rights which can never be taken away!! (But you can trasnfer them ;) ***Power of attorney**cough**cough***

If you are confident about your situation and have done your research there is nothing to fear by talking to police, it's a good way to get counter-intelligence if you know what you're doing. Always ask for the warrant, they probably don't have one. And even if they do you need to see the ORIGINAL WET INK SIGNATURE, otherwise its merely a copy/facsimile/fraud. But generally people are NOT confident and have no clue what they are doing so generally speaking NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE AND DEMAND YOU CONTACT YOUR ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY!! And don't fall for the scam of the public defender(public pretender) scam this is merely a way for the court to gain JURISDICTION over your person. Without granting JURISDICTION the court CANNOT proceed! I have seen many judges FLIP OUT on people for coming into court without an attorney. There's a reason for this, their little secret.. JURISDICTION!!! Please research what this word means because it is BEYOND CRITICAL!!

I can go on for days about this subject. So let's keep this discussion rolling. I am merely a student not an expert, however I welcome any questions. More than willing to help people see past the veil of the matrix!

***I am not an attorney, this is not legal advice but merely THEORY. Handle your own business people! READ READ READ!!!! And watch videos :)***

p.s. This is just a general mind dump which covered various topics, with no structure and I did not seek to cover any specific topic.

Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: postrex on August 06, 2013, 10:00 pm
Okay buddy... the freeman bit is interesting, but let's break down a few misconceptions:
I'll start with some of the prior posts and then go into what I know personally. Stating "no comment" shows acceptance or "tacit acquiesence". All presumptions under law must be rebutted! All claims against your "person" (CHRISTIAN NAME) can be met with a counter-claim, this is a MAXIM OF LAW, which supercedes statutes and codes. (WHICH ARE NOT LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Wrong... "I will not answer your question" is a very sufficient answer.  You are confusing the idea of consent by acquiescence - if you do not make any comment or protest, then yes, it is lawfully equivalent to consent.  However, answering, "I will not answer your question", or "My lawyer advised me not to answer any questions," acknowledges the question and therefore you cannot be deemed consenting in acquiescence.

They have the power and force of law because they are accepted by the general population because they don't know any damned better. Thanks to the programming of the "public fool system". Yes these "law enforcement officers" who took an oath as PEACE OFFICERS are trying to "charge" you under commerce. THIS IS WHY THEY ALL CARRY BUSINESS CARDS!! Ask any cop for one! They are "re-presenting" an agency which is a fiction non-profit corporation just the same as the courts! All the money they gather goes to the GAO(general accounting office) of each individual state and these funds go offshore to the slave colony owners. I won't go into further detail in that direction at this time. If you don't believe me you don't have to, I couldn't care less. Fact is DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU HAVEN'T CONFIRMED PERSONALLY!! Otherwise you're just spouting crap you "heard".
While what you say started off as generally true (although the business card bit is irrelevant to the fact that an Officer acts as an agent), what you describe is just obscured fact and not actually pointing out anything crazy or unknown.  And a bit of it is just bullshit.  We are part of our respective societies, as well as the global society that is humanity, and so we are to act accordingly.  This is OUR land, and these are OUR laws.  It is a mistake to draw an imaginary line between government and the population.  We are governed only by consent, albeit that is now essentially the consent of the masses instead of individual.  But what you are talking about about money is pure bullshit.  Pure... Bullshit...

If you have a driver's license, or a birth certificate, or a SSN/SIN/etc card, then you have put your hand to paper and signed that you are part of your respective society.

LEO's posing as Peace officers are nothing more than NWO security guards in my mind at this point. Yes they are to be taken seriously because as someone already stated they can and do harm quite often with no warrant/probable cause. We as a society of slaves (fear driven) have let this get entirely out of control!!!
Okay, here comes the evidence that you are spouting conspiracy non-sense instead of a well considered essay... There is no fucking "NWO" - at least not in any way the term is used by miss-guided individuals like yourself.  We are all persons, we all represent ourselves as legal fictions because if is necessary to act at commerce in our day-to-day lives.  This is actually a design of old common law to protect individuals, and certainly not to harm us...

But, who are we slaved to exactly?  Ourselves?  Other people in the society?  The will of the masses (often by passive consent in acquience) ?

They only know what YOU tell them. Watch "First 48" and observe the cops taking bets on if the investigator can get them to confess. Without this confession the cops have generally nothing to present to the DA/prosecutor and they basically laugh at the cop and say get out of here with that weak case and bring me something real!
Because crap reality TV is great reference material <heavy sarcasm>... However, you are kind of correct in that police can only know what they are told or what they discover by real investigation.  And to be frank, real investigation typically amounts to finding snitches.

Generally as most people don't have the interest in law, but it should be a standard education for any man/woman to be able to handle their business and not transfer their eternal rights bestowed upon them by god/superior entity/cosmos to a BAR member attorney. (The King James Bible used to be a law text before the corruption of Corpus Juris Secundum and the BAR association) The prosecutor/DA, you're Attorney, and the Judge are all members of the same club people(BAR). WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The bible was never a law text...  Sorry.  Ancient common-law references may make comparisons to the bible, but they never reference it as fact (as far as I have ever seen).  I do agree that our legal systems are overly complicated, but quite frankly, statistics definitively show that the those who were not guilty have high-rates of success defending themselves.

Most people should simply stick to Power to Charm's post:

"I don't wish to answer any questions."

"I don't consent to any searches."

"Officer, am I free to go?"

(Repeat...)
These are not strong enough.  Should be something like:
"My name is <...>, I live at <...>."
"I am sorry, my lawyer has advised me to never answer any questions beyond my name and address."
"Officer, if you are not charging me, I am going to leave."

Why the fuck are you asking them for permission to do something if you are specifically trying to avoid being their chattel asset?

You are always free to go because anything other actions by them constitute "False imprisonment" which basically you're not willing to sit around and stand for their questioning/harassment. You are asserting your right to contract and NOT contracting with these business people posing as Law Enforcement! False imprisonment happens anytime you are held against your will! This equates to kidnapping... If they keep you there against your will and state this in the form of a question (Am I being detained against my will?) it is a CRIME IN PROGRESS by LEO's by violating your rights which can never be taken away!! (But you can trasnfer them ;) ***Power of attorney**cough**cough***
Sounds like you are absolutely contracting with them actually... The moment you ask them a question you are negotiating.  And no, false imprisonment isn't that simple.  It is very very easy to justify holding someone for 24hours, and nearly impossible to dispute as unjust in any court of law.

And no, in a society, reasonable cause stemming from a unprejudiced judgement absolutely justifies actions against an individuals will.  Sorry... you have a birth certificate or a driver's license or government ID, then you are consenting to this.  It is not as simple as you say to pick and choose your obligations.

If you are confident about your situation and have done your research there is nothing to fear by talking to police, it's a good way to get counter-intelligence if you know what you're doing. Always ask for the warrant, they probably don't have one. And even if they do you need to see the ORIGINAL WET INK SIGNATURE, otherwise its merely a copy/facsimile/fraud. But generally people are NOT confident and have no clue what they are doing so generally speaking NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE AND DEMAND YOU CONTACT YOUR ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY!! And don't fall for the scam of the public defender(public pretender) scam this is merely a way for the court to gain JURISDICTION over your person. Without granting JURISDICTION the court CANNOT proceed! I have seen many judges FLIP OUT on people for coming into court without an attorney. There's a reason for this, their little secret.. JURISDICTION!!! Please research what this word means because it is BEYOND CRITICAL!!
Nope... the "whole original wet ink signature" thing became invalid as of the last two years in most of the world.  The very basis of what constitutes a signature has changed - it is sufficient that a mark on a paper was created by your actions (a replica of a signature qualifies for this).  Sorry, it was a valid argument until recently, but the common-law has evolved and the practicing for requesting a signature have evolved to include digital signatures as valid.  This is how law works.
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: thereisnospoon on August 07, 2013, 12:21 am
Okay buddy... the freeman bit is interesting, but let's break down a few misconceptions:

***Never said I was a "freeman", but thanks for the assumption and general misconception! :)

I'll start with some of the prior posts and then go into what I know personally. Stating "no comment" shows acceptance or "tacit acquiesence". All presumptions under law must be rebutted! All claims against your "person" (CHRISTIAN NAME) can be met with a counter-claim, this is a MAXIM OF LAW, which supercedes statutes and codes. (WHICH ARE NOT LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Wrong... "I will not answer your question" is a very sufficient answer.  You are confusing the idea of consent by acquiescence - if you do not make any comment or protest, then yes, it is lawfully equivalent to consent.  However, answering, "I will not answer your question", or "My lawyer advised me not to answer any questions," acknowledges the question and therefore you cannot be deemed consenting in acquiescence.

***I never said it wasn't a sufficient answer, actually if you read my post I agreed with a prior post stating that "I do not wish to answer any questions" would work for most people and most should simply stick to that. Any presumption unprotested or counter-claimed stands as fact under law. I'm glad we agree on something so far. :)

They have the power and force of law because they are accepted by the general population because they don't know any damned better. Thanks to the programming of the "public fool system". Yes these "law enforcement officers" who took an oath as PEACE OFFICERS are trying to "charge" you under commerce. THIS IS WHY THEY ALL CARRY BUSINESS CARDS!! Ask any cop for one! They are "re-presenting" an agency which is a fiction non-profit corporation just the same as the courts! All the money they gather goes to the GAO(general accounting office) of each individual state and these funds go offshore to the slave colony owners. I won't go into further detail in that direction at this time. If you don't believe me you don't have to, I couldn't care less. Fact is DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU HAVEN'T CONFIRMED PERSONALLY!! Otherwise you're just spouting crap you "heard".
While what you say started off as generally true (although the business card bit is irrelevant to the fact that an Officer acts as an agent), what you describe is just obscured fact and not actually pointing out anything crazy or unknown.  And a bit of it is just bullshit.  We are part of our respective societies, as well as the global society that is humanity, and so we are to act accordingly.  This is OUR land, and these are OUR laws.  It is a mistake to draw an imaginary line between government and the population.  We are governed only by consent, albeit that is now essentially the consent of the masses instead of individual.  But what you are talking about about money is pure bullshit.  Pure... Bullshit...

***The business card bit is not irrelevant in any form or fashion. Yes, yes they are agents as I stated re-presenting/representing any given agency. And are required to identify(make the same as) themselves as said representative agent. Not a bit of it is bullshit, you are obviously sadly confused. You may opt out of any given society as you can opt out of any given thing period. I don't know why you're touting "global society" on a grand scale of pollution and war the collective isn't going on sustainably so something has to and will change. We should always act accordingly as you stated. It is NOT your land, you don't own it and you don't even have the deed or original certificate thereof. YOU DO NOT HAVE ALLODIAL TITLE TO YOUR PROPERTY or do you? :) There is split title in all property sir, there's a huge difference between equitable title and a beneficiary which almost all of us are simply beneficiaries of property that was seized long ago. Great example, does anyone have stock certificates anymore? Hell no! They're held in the Depository Trust Corporation or DTC as all the titles to your other property is. And your government IS one big imaginary line. Lots of them actually. There's no state or country line when you pass borders sir, at least not yet or the last time I checked. Fences maybe, but the lines on a globe simply DONT EXIST. You need to understand the definition of government firstly.

Govern = To control  (like on an engine governer controls rpms, or a state governer controls actions of said state.
Ment = Of or having to do with the mind (mentor, mental, mente, etc)

What does that come to exactly?

Looks like its working on you friend ;(

If you have a driver's license, or a birth certificate, or a SSN/SIN/etc card, then you have put your hand to paper and signed that you are part of your respective society.

***So you signed your birth certificate? I know you signed "your" social security card. That's obvious! How about turning it over and reading it for a change!! It states very clearly that you MUST return it on DEMAND!! Is this REALLY YOURS?? Why must you surrender something that belongs to you on demand if its truly yours???????
You do not need a drivers license to drive, as you ALREADY know I'm sure we all have a "Right to travel" ordained by god/universe/creator/superior being. This is merely to IDENTIFY you as a NAME, which you cannot be! A name is a word sound, people have MANY names they answer to in life. Nicknames, pet names, stage names. We move in and out of these names as we see fit in our lives. Funny how the court must address a particular name and must get you to address that yes you are indeed said NAME. As you know already said NAME is merely a corporation created with the application for a birth certificate by your parents. This is why said drivers license and social security card have CAPITOL LETTERS (capitus dominutio maximus) which denotes a CORPORATION. YOU MUST BE "IDENTIFIED"(made same as) THIS CORPORATE ENTITY FIRST IN ORDER TO HAVE CHARGES LEVIED AGAINST SAID CORPORATION. If you do not pay said charges in some fashion your body will be held as surety! If only people would wake up dammit... this is the MATRIX in and of itself and this guy is a perfect example of a confused yet somewhat educated debt slave!

LEO's posing as Peace officers are nothing more than NWO security guards in my mind at this point. Yes they are to be taken seriously because as someone already stated they can and do harm quite often with no warrant/probable cause. We as a society of slaves (fear driven) have let this get entirely out of control!!!
Okay, here comes the evidence that you are spouting conspiracy non-sense instead of a well considered essay... There is no fucking "NWO" - at least not in any way the term is used by miss-guided individuals like yourself.  We are all persons, we all represent ourselves as legal fictions because if is necessary to act at commerce in our day-to-day lives.  This is actually a design of old common law to protect individuals, and certainly not to harm us...

***Equating "Law enforcement officers" to NWO security guards is an opinion. It's not a conspiracy if its true sir :) Are you telling me the United Nations doesnt at least seem NWO'ish? ;)  Under law a "person" can be defined as a corporation firstly. Oh and you're saying you "occasionally" RE-PRESENT yourself as a LEGAL FICTION(corporation) to act under commerce occassionaly? Now we're getting somewhere ;)

But, who are we slaved to exactly?  Ourselves?  Other people in the society?  The will of the masses (often by passive consent in acquience) ?

***You are a slave to whatever you so choose. For better or worse. Yes, you have a duty to society to do NO WILLFUL HARM TO ANOTHER. And to honor your word, there really isn't much else to life. You can't be a slave to the will of the masses unless you choose so. Passively or actively.

They only know what YOU tell them. Watch "First 48" and observe the cops taking bets on if the investigator can get them to confess. Without this confession the cops have generally nothing to present to the DA/prosecutor and they basically laugh at the cop and say get out of here with that weak case and bring me something real!
Because crap reality TV is great reference material <heavy sarcasm>... However, you are kind of correct in that police can only know what they are told or what they discover by real investigation.  And to be frank, real investigation typically amounts to finding snitches.

*** Yes sometimes they discover this by real investigation whatever that is. But mostly it's from people in "fear" instilled into them by these agents in order to get them to turn over their brother/sister to the "author-ities". Thanks for the sarcasm but I don't watch television and I'm speaking from real life experience here BUDDY. :)

Generally as most people don't have the interest in law, but it should be a standard education for any man/woman to be able to handle their business and not transfer their eternal rights bestowed upon them by god/superior entity/cosmos to a BAR member attorney. (The King James Bible used to be a law text before the corruption of Corpus Juris Secundum and the BAR association) The prosecutor/DA, you're Attorney, and the Judge are all members of the same club people(BAR). WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The bible was never a law text...  Sorry.  Ancient common-law references may make comparisons to the bible, but they never reference it as fact (as far as I have ever seen).  I do agree that our legal systems are overly complicated, but quite frankly, statistics definitively show that the those who were not guilty have high-rates of success defending themselves.

***Actually people that defend themselves win 16% of their cases vs defense attorneys being 8%. This is a very small number simply because people do not know how to present a counter-claim against the charges/claim being levied against their person/corporation/name that they have "identified" with. This is why cops always ask "What is your name?" They need this in order to proceed with their charging! How can you do business without knowing exactly who the other party is? Hmmmm? And yes the King James Bible was always a law text. Look it up yourself. Ancient law consists of "MAXIMS OF LAW" That supercede everything that came after it. All judges understand this and respect it, its part of their education. Their overly-complicated so that most people just step away. Maxims of law are unchanged ancient law for a reason ;)

Most people should simply stick to Power to Charm's post:

"I don't wish to answer any questions."

"I don't consent to any searches."

"Officer, am I free to go?"

(Repeat...)
These are not strong enough.  Should be something like:
"My name is <...>, I live at <...>."
"I am sorry, my lawyer has advised me to never answer any questions beyond my name and address."
"Officer, if you are not charging me, I am going to leave."

Why the fuck are you asking them for permission to do something if you are specifically trying to avoid being their chattel asset?

***Ok so now you're a name again?? Why in the HELL would you volunteer information like that??? You don't live at an address, you live within the confines of your own body!! I sleep where I rest my head at night. This does not equate to an address to be handed over!! I "live" where I have my mental and physical experiences wherever that may be. I didn't get into specifics of what I would say. Personally, I would like to know what agency our "agent" is "re-presenting" at that moment before I do a single thing else!

How do I even know he's a cop??? He has state ID, and a business card, and a badge number for a reason. It'd be prudent to figure out who you're deaing with before you start contracting. And yes if I'm not being detained against my will, I must assume that I'm free to go and promptly exit the scene. I would prefer to ask a question to put the burden of proof on the accuser. Even if you asked "Am I free to go" the officer knows your free to go otherwise they would have already handcuffed you. Always try and find out their "probable cause" for the situation you've encountered. Without sufficient "probable cause" anything that happens in the exchange is invalidated unless you later sign a waiver or give information that you should not have. Simply put they had no real reason to harass you in the first place so why are you participating in their mind games?

You are always free to go because anything other actions by them constitute "False imprisonment" which basically you're not willing to sit around and stand for their questioning/harassment. You are asserting your right to contract and NOT contracting with these business people posing as Law Enforcement! False imprisonment happens anytime you are held against your will! This equates to kidnapping... If they keep you there against your will and state this in the form of a question (Am I being detained against my will?) it is a CRIME IN PROGRESS by LEO's by violating your rights which can never be taken away!! (But you can transfer them ;) ***Power of attorney**cough**cough***
Sounds like you are absolutely contracting with them actually... The moment you ask them a question you are negotiating.  And no, false imprisonment isn't that simple.  It is very very easy to justify holding someone for 24hours, and nearly impossible to dispute as unjust in any court of law.

Read "A treatise on false imprisonment and arrest" and get back to me. Typically they hold you for 72 hours in the US to see if they have anything. That's why you MUST be arraigned within this time-frame otherwise you MUST be released. It's all contracts my friend, all day everyday contract law reigns supreme in all governments. You MUST submit a counter-claim always for your detention. And yes this means verbal and verbal notification is crucial and verbal contracts are just as powerful as written or recorded contracts. My word is my bond.

And no, in a society, reasonable cause stemming from a unprejudiced judgement absolutely justifies actions against an individuals will.  Sorry... you have a birth certificate or a driver's license or government ID, then you are consenting to this.  It is not as simple as you say to pick and choose your obligations.

***Who said I had these ID's? When did I give my consent exactly? Which government are we speaking of? Have you changed your idea of the word government yet? Reasonable cause, says who? Can you prove it/your claim? Contracts are dynamic my friend I can pick and choose what I want while I'm in this body. :)

If you are confident about your situation and have done your research there is nothing to fear by talking to police, it's a good way to get counter-intelligence if you know what you're doing. Always ask for the warrant, they probably don't have one. And even if they do you need to see the ORIGINAL WET INK SIGNATURE, otherwise its merely a copy/facsimile/fraud. But generally people are NOT confident and have no clue what they are doing so generally speaking NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE AND DEMAND YOU CONTACT YOUR ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY!! And don't fall for the scam of the public defender(public pretender) scam this is merely a way for the court to gain JURISDICTION over your person. Without granting JURISDICTION the court CANNOT proceed! I have seen many judges FLIP OUT on people for coming into court without an attorney. There's a reason for this, their little secret.. JURISDICTION!!! Please research what this word means because it is BEYOND CRITICAL!!
Nope... the "whole original wet ink signature" thing became invalid as of the last two years in most of the world.  The very basis of what constitutes a signature has changed - it is sufficient that a mark on a paper was created by your actions (a replica of a signature qualifies for this).  Sorry, it was a valid argument until recently, but the common-law has evolved and the practicing for requesting a signature have evolved to include digital signatures as valid.  This is how law works.

LOL, it is NOT law. Once again, statutes and code are given the FORCE of law by the consent of the people. If the sheeple ever found their backbone in their flouridated brain-washed minds again they might have something to say! That's if they truly cared about their brother/sister and wanted to live in a free society! So if the police show up with their digital warrant are you going to let them search??

Maxims of law haven't and will not change!
Making a counter-claim for harassment or detainment and/or damages is paramount!
The burden of proof lies on the accuser!

I can go on but I think the mix between public(slave) and private(sovereign) is getting out of hand.
There are always two sides to every story and our reality has two sides as well. If you want to be
led out of the matrix and into the light then you will find your way. If you prefer the matrix then so be
it. Everyone is not cut out for it, and they should remain there as diligent little debt slaves toiling away
to pay their mortgages/cars/boats/college education/credit card/medical/legal payments. I myself, I
choose to opt out of this "system" of modern slavery. Just as inflation is the hidden tax, debt slavery
is the hidden master!
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: PathSeeker on August 07, 2013, 01:51 am
I like to think a lot of this is true.  But in practice?  I think, at least on Candians, the concept that we have a choice whether or not to consent, has been lost.  Nobody draws a distinction between our right to freedom of association and our right to not associate with any particular organization, like CANADA.  People say "If you don't like it you are free to leave."  That just betrays the fact that we were conquered before we were even born.  It isn't that black and white, but I've yet to see anyone pull any of this stuff off in court, or at the side of the road for that matter.  Some people say "if you're in court, you've already lost" and you should have already gotten your affidavits together showing how the crown has failed to prove any jurisdiction over you.
Regardless of any of it, who's anywhere waiting to step up and enforce your rights?  If a judge says that the policies of the corporation apply to you, is there a good gaddamn thing you can do about it?
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: DEBT SLAVERY 101 on August 07, 2013, 04:51 am
That's a good question there ain't it?

Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: DEBT SLAVERY 101 on August 07, 2013, 04:56 am
In all actuality there's quite a few who exert their rights on the side of the road and especially in the courts.. with some degree of success. It's just that it's usually quite daunting to most everyone. And it's supposed to be. Designed and setup to be.

All the day like... seeing do's muffuckn LURKERS LURKING AROUND TOWN in their grill covered cars. But it's indoctrinated. To keep you in line. It's about breaking that bullshit mind control. Look at what you believe is your identity. Who you believe who you are.
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: thereisnospoon on August 07, 2013, 06:01 am
I like to think a lot of this is true.  But in practice?  I think, at least on Candians, the concept that we have a choice whether or not to consent, has been lost.  Nobody draws a distinction between our right to freedom of association and our right to not associate with any particular organization, like CANADA.  People say "If you don't like it you are free to leave."  That just betrays the fact that we were conquered before we were even born.  It isn't that black and white, but I've yet to see anyone pull any of this stuff off in court, or at the side of the road for that matter.  Some people say "if you're in court, you've already lost" and you should have already gotten your affidavits together showing how the crown has failed to prove any jurisdiction over you.
Regardless of any of it, who's anywhere waiting to step up and enforce your rights?  If a judge says that the policies of the corporation apply to you, is there a good gaddamn thing you can do about it?


Well, have you ever heard of Robert Menard? He is not a "child of the province" as he puts it. And he's had so much success in court he's banned from their corporate premises! ;)  But anyone can obviously say it's not real, people can believe what they want. It's their matrix experience to do what they like with it! So long as they do no intentional harm and hold their word obviously.

Beyond that Canada is property of the British Crown. Look at your money.. The queen is on a $20 I have I'm quite sure. And if you look closely on the coat of arms the "Crown" is above it all. But of course that's all just an ACCIDENT.

I'm not sure how exactly things are in Canada, I do know it varies from region to region. I would seek local guidance in matters of sovereignty such as Menard, Dean Clifford for primers and there are many others. The cops are slightly less militaristic than the United States so you guys are way better off in these matters because its slightly less dangerous to actually assert your rights.

These matters take an immense commitment of time to re-learn what we've been taught. In most cases generally things are opposite of what we were taught.

Remember that there are two primary types of Jurisdiction. Personam jurisdiction, which is over your "person" or "corporate name". And subject matter jurisdiction, which is simply the matter at hand such as any given contract. Hiring an attorney automatically grants personam jurisdiction because the attorney is a BAR member just the same as a Judge. At least this is how it is in the United States.

I can say these practices are not imaginary. They are accepted in many regions and are part of a much larger system than your locality. It takes much time to understand the inner-workings of this system and it is not for the timid. Good luck in your studies if you so choose! :)
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: postrex on August 07, 2013, 06:07 am
LOL, it is NOT law. Once again, statutes and code are given the FORCE of law by the consent of the people. If the sheeple ever found their backbone in their flouridated brain-washed minds again they might have something to say! That's if they truly cared about their brother/sister and wanted to live in a free society!
I do not know exactly what you are responding to from my dissection of your OP... but... The "sheeple" are us.  That's you, that's me.  We are society.  You are on the internet, under a roof, using resources and gaining utility from many facits of society.  And by doing so, you are consenting to the statutes and bylaws, and essentially existing in contract with society.  With us.  Your random ramblings about a free society need to be backed up with an idea of what a "free society" might look like, else it is nothing more then rambling.  There are many ideas of what constitutes freedom.  It is not a simple concept, and freedom absolutely necessitates responsibility (aka abidance to a code... aka the statutes governing your situation).

So if the police show up with their digital warrant are you going to let them search??
WTF are you even talking about?
1. You never "let" police search...  that's just basic smarts.  If they have the right to do so, you simply do not resist.  And if you think you are macho enough to stand up against a swat team, then you are deluded.
2. WTF is a "digital warrant?"  I talked about digital copies of signatures being valid in court as a direct response to your outdated ramblings that stopped working about 3 years ago.

Maxims of law haven't and will not change!
Making a counter-claim for harassment or detainment and/or damages is paramount!
The burden of proof lies on the accuser!
Yes... sure...  But good luck ever actually collecting on your counter claim.  If you try to collect within society's existing systems, you will be bothered, laughed at, and eventually pushed aside.  If what you desire is to be ignored and banished by society, then go for it - you have that right.  I don't see you actually exemplifying these ideals.  Why?  Because being a freeman requires being a god-damn libre homo - one who essentially lives in the woods at the edge of town and doesn't bother anyone, and so the crown (king/society/whatever) leaves them to their meanderings.

I can go on but I think the mix between public(slave) and private(sovereign) is getting out of hand.
There are always two sides to every story and our reality has two sides as well. If you want to be
led out of the matrix and into the light then you will find your way. If you prefer the matrix then so be
it. Everyone is not cut out for it, and they should remain there as diligent little debt slaves toiling away
to pay their mortgages/cars/boats/college education/credit card/medical/legal payments. I myself, I
choose to opt out of this "system" of modern slavery. Just as inflation is the hidden tax, debt slavery
is the hidden master!
First, NEVER use the term sovereign in that context.  You will be immediately destroyed by any good lawyer.  To be sovereign requires a following, and if you cannot provide a grand jury equivalent (30 people at the top end) to state they follow you, you can NOT be sovereign.  The sovereign stuff is along the entirely wrong path if your aim is to divulge yourself of social responsibility.  The path to take is being a freeman - get the fuck off the computer, and go live on the edge of the woods.  Do no harm and go about your way.

Ya... I'll believe you actually opt'd out of anything when you publish your name because you aren't scared of anything.  Until that point, your words are simply wishful thinking.

And I could talk about this for hours as well by the way, in a much more coherent fashion then you, very likely.

In all actuality there's quite a few who exert their rights on the side of the road and especially in the courts.. with some degree of success. It's just that it's usually quite daunting to most everyone. And it's supposed to be. Designed and setup to be.

All the day like... seeing do's muffuckn LURKERS LURKING AROUND TOWN in their grill covered cars. But it's indoctrinated. To keep you in line. It's about breaking that bullshit mind control. Look at what you believe is your identity. Who you believe who you are.
It is absolutely possible, but it really comes down to individual circumstance.  And really, license/insurance/registration systems were designed and implemented for a reason - they benefit society as a whole.

Anyway, fighting traffic tickets is a peace of cake.  Mainly because it's not worth the time in court.  It's not criminal, so who gives a fuck?

You show me someone that actually openly grows weed as a freeman, and we'll talk.  I've heard those who claimed to do such, but were never public about it - so obviously they were just hiding and believing they were protected.

I like to think a lot of this is true.  But in practice?  I think, at least on Candians, the concept that we have a choice whether or not to consent, has been lost.  Nobody draws a distinction between our right to freedom of association and our right to not associate with any particular organization, like CANADA.  People say "If you don't like it you are free to leave."  That just betrays the fact that we were conquered before we were even born.  It isn't that black and white, but I've yet to see anyone pull any of this stuff off in court, or at the side of the road for that matter.  Some people say "if you're in court, you've already lost" and you should have already gotten your affidavits together showing how the crown has failed to prove any jurisdiction over you.
Regardless of any of it, who's anywhere waiting to step up and enforce your rights?  If a judge says that the policies of the corporation apply to you, is there a good gaddamn thing you can do about it?
I think you can look at this from the flip perspective too - "If you don't like it, leave" is such a common statement because we so commonly believe this.  The geographic land mass that is Canada is obviously separate from the legal entity CANADA, but only in function.  They are the same in concept and our minds.  And if we (collectively as a society, or for nations as a global society) view borders as true, then they are.

We can hope people will wake up suddenly, and everything will change.  But sadly that is very unlikely.  Being disappointed with how things are and complaining about how much better they could be if you were "free" will only make your life miserable.  Work within the system, master is, beat it... Win the game.  You will get endlessly more satisfaction, and those that are smart enough to contemplate the true ideals of freedom and freemen should be well equipped to consider the system and use it to your advantage.

Now that said, I've seen some interesting stuff in court.  But it always gets patched up rather quickly.  There is only one technique that really works - walking in, refusing to speak to anyone but the judge, and stating yourself plainly and honestly, stating you are guilty of the highest crimes in society and should be punished to death.  Then let your legal fiction die.  Only then can you be a freeman - when society itself kills your person.  Few will ever have the balls to do this of course.

Well, have you ever heard of Robert Menard? He is not a "child of the province" as he puts it. And he's had so much success in court he's banned from their corporate premises! ;)  But anyone can obviously say it's not real, people can believe what they want. It's their matrix experience to do what they like with it! So long as they do no intentional harm and hold their word obviously.
Sorry friend, but Menard is a joke.  He pays taxes, and when he drives (rarely does he have enough resources to do so), he insures his car.  Don't be fooled.

Beyond that Canada is property of the British Crown. Look at your money.. The queen is on a $20 I have I'm quite sure. And if you look closely on the coat of arms the "Crown" is above it all. But of course that's all just an ACCIDENT.
No way.  CANADA is actually the property of the United States.  Check the SEC corporate registry.  Also note that nowhere in Canada is CANADA registered.  True fact.

As far as the Crown, Canada is not owned by the Crown, Canadians consent to rule under the Crown and her agents, and the Queen upholds her obligations as a monarch in this modern age by letting her child state be largely free.

I won't bother with the rest of your post, sorry.  But Menard is just such a tool.  He's simply not the kind of character you would want to associate with.
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: PathSeeker on August 07, 2013, 06:40 am
Well, have you ever heard of Robert Menard? He is not a "child of the province" as he puts it. And he's had so much success in court he's banned from their corporate premises! ;) 
That's awesome!  And yes quite familiar, his work is what turned me on to the idea that we do have remedy somewhere.
Quote
But anyone can obviously say it's not real, people can believe what they want. It's their matrix experience to do what they like with it! So long as they do no intentional harm and hold their word obviously.

Beyond that Canada is property of the British Crown. Look at your money.. The queen is on a $20 I have I'm quite sure. And if you look closely on the coat of arms the "Crown" is above it all. But of course that's all just an ACCIDENT.

I'm not sure how exactly things are in Canada, I do know it varies from region to region. I would seek local guidance in matters of sovereignty such as Menard, Dean Clifford for primers and there are many others. The cops are slightly less militaristic than the United States so you guys are way better off in these matters because its slightly less dangerous to actually assert your rights.
You got it pretty close.  The queen is the ultimate head of the country and we have a de facto (illegitimate) government because we failed as a people to set up a de jure one, is the history as I understand it.  It actually used to even say "de facto" referring to canada's government on the website of the Governor Genereal (the queen's rep. here).  A few years back Canada had to get the GG's permission to prorogue government.  We are definitely ruled by the monarchy.  Dean Clifford is the man!!!  He's also in jail at the moment afaik.  Which is a lot of the reason for my original comment.
Some of these guys are doing really amazing things, but it's all so fucked up and it seems like there's no right thing to say.
Debt Slavery101 nailed it with know who you are...but it's also not that easy it seems.
Quote
These matters take an immense commitment of time to re-learn what we've been taught. In most cases generally things are opposite of what we were taught.

Remember that there are two primary types of Jurisdiction. Personam jurisdiction, which is over your "person" or "corporate name". And subject matter jurisdiction, which is simply the matter at hand such as any given contract. Hiring an attorney automatically grants personam jurisdiction because the attorney is a BAR member just the same as a Judge. At least this is how it is in the United States.

I can say these practices are not imaginary. They are accepted in many regions and are part of a much larger system than your locality. It takes much time to understand the inner-workings of this system and it is not for the timid. Good luck in your studies if you so choose! :)
definitely didn't mean to imply that this is all imaginary...I'm deeply involved in my own process of disentanglement from that web of shit.
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: DEBT SLAVERY 101 on August 07, 2013, 09:25 am
sovereign simply means authority

to author

do you?
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: postrex on August 07, 2013, 04:45 pm
sovereign simply means authority
No...

A sovereign entity is a monarch, or a person with supreme power of authority, or a body of individuals making up a state...  But the key is that it requires followers.  Really, go into court and try claiming you are a sovereign entity.  You will be found in contempt, because you are lying.  One person on their own cannot be sovereign by definition, sorry.

I see that all this freeman stuff has really tickled your fancy.  But the ideals do not match the execution.  If you do your research properly, you will see exactly when and why the "Sovereign Person" movement failed - and it was because simply, you cannot use that term unless you are the supreme leader of a body of people.

These are ideals and theories of law and legality and most of them end up having no bearing on reality.  While the personhood structures are absolutely real, this is for our benefit and our choice.  We all act at commerce every day, and we do so on our own cognizance - that requires a bonded and incorporate entity under law.

If you want to be a freeman, I say again, you cannot sit on your computer in your condo or house and preach bullshit.  You need to go live in the wood and bother no one and have no one bother you.  Then you can be free like the magna carta allows.  Anything less, and you are subject to the rules of your society.
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: sharonneedles on August 09, 2013, 10:39 am
***Power of attorney**cough**cough***

If you are confident about your situation and have done your research there is nothing to fear by talking to police, it's a good way to get counter-intelligence if you know what you're doing. Always ask for the warrant, they probably don't have one. And even if they do you need to see the ORIGINAL WET INK SIGNATURE, otherwise its merely a copy/facsimile/fraud. But generally people are NOT confident and have no clue what they are doing so generally speaking NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE AND DEMAND YOU CONTACT YOUR ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY!! And don't fall for the scam of the public defender(public pretender) scam this is merely a way for the court to gain JURISDICTION over your person. Without granting JURISDICTION the court CANNOT proceed! I have seen many judges FLIP OUT on people for coming into court without an attorney. There's a reason for this, their little secret.. JURISDICTION!!! Please research what this word means because it is BEYOND CRITICAL!!

You spend your whole essay talking about getting an attorny and then at the end you say go to court without one?

**Lawyer up if you're in trouble and let the professional make the case (it's what you pay them for). Let the judges and the lawyers interpret the law because you don't know shit**
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: PathSeeker on August 09, 2013, 11:06 am
[**Lawyer up if you're in trouble and let the professional make the case (it's what you pay them for). Let the judges and the lawyers interpret the law because you don't know shit**
I don't know...on one hand, you can lawyer up which is in essence handing your body over to the Crown/State via the BAR association, or you can self-represent, and try to fight the crown/state/bar.  Either way, you're in a pool of sharks and you're going to get digested.
Title: Re: Legal mind dump - Say whaaaaaat?!
Post by: thereisnospoon on August 10, 2013, 07:02 am
I was high during original post but I assure you all info is spot on regardless of the haters I knew I would attract.

Simply put everyone can handle their legal needs differently and will do so. If there is no need to go to court then
it should be simply avoided at all costs. There are ways to get things done with the correct attorney/judge combo.
And there are ways to handle your business in the private as a sovereign. If you don't believe me but are still interested
then simply dig very deep and I promise you will eventually find "remedy". This does NOT come easy, you must
spend a massive amount of study time to pull these matters off and there are months if not years of clearing the
crud out of your mind from all of the brainwashing we are put through(USA).

Very simply put sovereign = authority. I'm quite sure we are all the "author" of our story. So innately we are all sovereign
until we CHOOSE otherwise. Most choose the path of self-induced slavery simply because they know of no alternative.
And no this does not require you to live on a mountain-side with no electricity. But you could! :)