Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 05:50 pm

Title: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 05:50 pm
Alright. I personally have nothing against guns, but I don't believe they belong here at this current point in time. We are getting unwanted attention. The public used to view us as useless (Yet harmless) drug addicts. Now we'll be viewed as terrorists, regardless of how you use the guns you buy. That's just how it is, as of right now guns are more taboo than sex with children.

EDIT: It really shows your true colors that you would go so far to create new accounts just to vote for guns on SR. You think nobody notices, but in the matter of 15 minutes it just went from 85:15 to 60:40. You aren't sly.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: dird on January 28, 2012, 06:06 pm
Yes,

And the Silk Road should strive to have every item and service that subverts the power of the state.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: prsnnknwn on January 28, 2012, 06:10 pm
I think this is not the right question. We should start from the beginning - how much of us wants this place to represent some philosophical/ideological/social idea vs. how much of us wants it to be another convenience store (yeah, unusual, but still, just another one). And from there you can start ask whether we should ban this or that or nothing whatsoever.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 06:14 pm
A few questions to those who are pro gun for SR.

What are your motives? Are you looking to purchase fire arms? Are you vending fire arms? Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?

Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: dird on January 28, 2012, 06:22 pm
Democracy is not the political ideology of radicals. The majority is generally stupid. Take a look at the US political system.

I say we leave it to the owner of the Silk Road. He knows himself the route he wants to take his creation
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 06:28 pm
Democracy is not the political ideology of radicals. The majority is generally stupid. Take a look at the US political system.

I say we leave it to the owner of the Silk Road. He knows himself the route he wants to take his creation
What a poor response. The US political system is flawed in that the corporations are allowed to fund such large sums of money to whatever person they want to in return, gaining favors when said person reaches office. Just look at Obama+BP.

A completely unbiased, anonymous vote is the best way to go. You already know you're outnumbered and unwanted. If you don't like it, you can make your own site.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: dird on January 28, 2012, 06:34 pm
A few questions to those who are pro gun for SR.

What are your motives? Are you looking to purchase fire arms? Are you vending fire arms? Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?

Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?

I have no need to purchase a firearm on the Silk Road. I can legally purchase one if I wanted. But I believe in the right for people who can't buy one to purchase one. This ideal is greater than having a virtual 7-11 for drugs.

I have been thinking about starting my own service on here. That of tax evasion. This is just an example of what I personally believe should be on here. Do you think that would draw more unwanted attention?
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: dird on January 28, 2012, 06:37 pm
What a poor response. The US political system is flawed in that the corporations are allowed to fund such large sums of money to whatever person they want to in return, gaining favors when said person reaches office. Just look at Obama+BP.

A completely unbiased, anonymous vote is the best way to go. You already know you're outnumbered and unwanted. If you don't like it, you can make your own site.

The corporation card is used by intellectual children. Ad hominem yes. But it needs to be said.

And I'm off, I've said my views. They are there for people to see and evaluate on their own merit
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: prsnnknwn on January 28, 2012, 06:41 pm
What are your motives?
Are you looking to purchase fire arms?
Are you vending fire arms?
Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?
Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?

Where I live I cant buy firearm, period. Hell, I cant even buy crossbow or hunt with traditional bow. To make matters worse, I cant even go outside designated shooting range with airgun.
I want to shoot, I have done that in the past and it is just... interesting? For lack of better word.
I want my own, personal handgun at home, for situations when some lowlife scumbag will decide that my flat looks promising enough to try it for target. And police is last thing I want to trust to my or any other life for that matter.
I want to go to forest and do target practice. I want to feel that power in my hand and I want to learn to harness it and use it responsibly and only when needed.
I want to hunt so I kill meat I eat, I have long given up buying meat.
Is that valid enough reasons for wanting an option to buy a gun?

But here is fun part - to this poll, I voted against guns. And the reason is in my previous post - we are doing it wrong. We are trying to shape something, we actually have not even defined to begin with. If we are all about convenience store (and it REALLY looks that way, hence my vote) - I'd like to keep this one in realm of drugs and money services. If we are about possibly game changing phenomena in our current society, then I am all in for guns.

But vote all you want, this question will be addressed again and again, and again if we do not start from beginning. What is this place for us, but honestly. Maybe we should make poll, with answers like a) dealer subsitute b) way to feel more cool c) anarchoparadise d) implementation of long cherished philosophical dream and so on. Then we will see, what it is all about.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 06:44 pm
A few questions to those who are pro gun for SR.

What are your motives? Are you looking to purchase fire arms? Are you vending fire arms? Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?

Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?

I have no need to purchase a firearm on the Silk Road. I can legally purchase one if I wanted. But I believe in the right for people who can't buy one to purchase one. This ideal is greater than having a virtual 7-11 for drugs.

I have been thinking about starting my own service on here. That of tax evasion. This is just an example of what I personally believe should be on here. Do you think that would draw more unwanted attention?
Of course it would bring more unwanted attention. If you live inside of the USA and are trying to buy a gun you're obviously doing something wrong. As long as you're not insane, or a convicted felon, you can easily apply for a license and get a gun.
Now if you live outside of the USA, sorry, but you can't drag the entire silk road down with you. If you really can't live without a firearm, then find one in the streets. It's not that hard.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: wowzers on January 28, 2012, 06:48 pm
Put guns in a separate marketplace on another URL, we'd all be happy then. Facile ideological arguments aside, there's no real reason not to. If there's a real market for weapons, then the fees generated from their sales would sustain this second market.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 06:51 pm
Put guns in a separate marketplace on another URL, we'd all be happy then. Facile ideological arguments aside, there's no real reason not to. If there's a real market for weapons, then the fees generated from their sales would sustain this second market.
Right. But we can't have it called silk road, and we cant let the public know that the same person runs both sites. It would be better if one of these arms dealers would go out and make his own site. But they wont do that.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: cacoethes on January 28, 2012, 07:59 pm
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this.

As a matter of principle, I'd like to see guns allowed here, but in practice, and after much reflection, I'd have to say no.  I just want a place to buy clean drugs at reasonable prices, and I don't want my newly discovered honey-hole to be jeopardized by allowing sales of guns that I can legally purchase at my local gun shop.

In the US, drug charges are treated more severely when guns are involved, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.  As it stands right now, the imaginary links between drugs and terrorism are already being hyped by the government, and by the media puppets they control.  Throw weapons into the mix, and those links become even more validated in the minds of those who would already seek to shut down places like Silk Road.

In spite of my libertarian beliefs, I think drugs and weapons should be separated in this particular marketplace.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: guns4europe on January 28, 2012, 08:03 pm
Damn you're all a bunch of hypocrites, your drugs should be allowed but my guns banned? because you guys don't make money with my bussiness it doesn't mean you should rule out other people, that's discrimination. You junkies go buy and use drugs as much as you want as long as you stay off my guns
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 28, 2012, 08:06 pm
I say we leave it to the owner of the Silk Road. He knows himself the route he wants to take his creation

I snipped the opening sentence of your post as it is by any objective measure, without merit. It would have been better if you said something along the lines of... democracy disenfranchises the minority. And that is democracies greatest failure. We are here because we have been disenfranchised by the majority. They made certain drugs illegal  because they offend their sensibilities. And that is what this poll is trying to accomplish - the disenfranchisement of a minority. Odd isn't it? So much for do as unto others as you would have done unto you. 

However, this last sentence which is quoted is with brimming with merit.

There really is no point to this poll. So the majority doesn't want guns out of fear of it hastening the demise of SR or because they simply don't like guns (or both). Really, so what? What are they going to do when this poll and its sentiment falls on deaf ears? Leave SR? No, they have no where else to go and the owners or SR know that. And if the owners of SR are reasonably secure that SR can withstand an attack by LE, they are right to totally ignore the fear of a majority SR citizenry.

1. The fear is just that, fear and it is unsubstantiated and based on hypothetical events.
2. Those who have a sensibility against guns must be ignored as we don't want to get into the slippery slope of catering to the sensibilities of anyone lest we find ourselves having to go without one of our favorite drug(s) of choice.

That last point, #2, has to be considered since this is the very thing that brought us all together. Society's collective sensibilities against drugs necessitated this place. We don't want to fall back into doing the same thing society at large has done to us.

Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: OldGuard on January 28, 2012, 08:06 pm
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this.

As a matter of principle, I'd like to see guns allowed here, but in practice, and after much reflection, I'd have to say no.  I just want a place to buy clean drugs at reasonable prices, and I don't want my newly discovered honey-hole to be jeopardized by allowing sales of guns that I can legally purchase at my local gun shop.

In the US, drug charges are treated more severely when guns are involved, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.  As it stands right now, the imaginary links between drugs and terrorism are already being hyped by the government, and by the media puppets they control.  Throw weapons into the mix, and those links become even more validated in the minds of those who would already seek to shut down places like Silk Road.

In spite of my libertarian beliefs, I think drugs and weapons should be separated in this particular marketplace.

^^ +1  ^^
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 08:08 pm
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this.

As a matter of principle, I'd like to see guns allowed here, but in practice, and after much reflection, I'd have to say no.  I just want a place to buy clean drugs at reasonable prices, and I don't want my newly discovered honey-hole to be jeopardized by allowing sales of guns that I can legally purchase at my local gun shop.

In the US, drug charges are treated more severely when guns are involved, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.  As it stands right now, the imaginary links between drugs and terrorism are already being hyped by the government, and by the media puppets they control.  Throw weapons into the mix, and those links become even more validated in the minds of those who would already seek to shut down places like Silk Road.

In spite of my libertarian beliefs, I think drugs and weapons should be separated in this particular marketplace.
I feel the same exact way. Theirs really nothing wrong with guns, and they're fairly easy to obtain in real life. Legally or Illegally.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: banalldrugs on January 28, 2012, 08:12 pm
Dude guns are hard to obtain in real life, drug vendors you can get to know easily but arms dealers are a lot harder so this forum is a great help to the unfortunate who can't find vendors in real life
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 08:16 pm
Dude guns are hard to obtain in real life, drug vendors you can get to know easily but arms dealers are a lot harder so this forum is a great help to the unfortunate who can't find vendors in real life
Where do you live? In America its a piece of cake.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: ianfleming on January 28, 2012, 08:23 pm
Buying illegal guns in the U.S isn't all that easy.
I'm a big part of the gun community and can honestly say that I have never seen someone selling illegal guns.
(even at gun shows)

But, also, in my area getting REAL MDMA is near impossible too.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: punchy on January 28, 2012, 08:23 pm
I dont think its a good idea to sell guns on Silk Road

You get all this extra attention from the full spectrum of government law agencies, Homeland Security,  ATF, CIA,  FBI

and what worries me most,  these agencies could get Postal Service funding for super hardcore scanners for the mail, putting the tried and true drug trade through the ringer

Bring it else where gagsta nip
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jimvisa on January 28, 2012, 08:25 pm
Damn you're all a bunch of hypocrites, your drugs should be allowed but my guns banned? because you guys don't make money with my bussiness it doesn't mean you should rule out other people, that's discrimination. You junkies go buy and use drugs as much as you want as long as you stay off my guns
i don't think people are being hypocritical, just a little selfish (which is understandable)
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: demarcko on January 28, 2012, 08:30 pm
I really cannot believe some of the responses from the pro gun people here. I really cant.


I want my own, personal handgun at home, for situations when some lowlife scumbag will decide that my flat looks promising enough to try it for target. And police is last thing I want to trust to my or any other life for that matter.
I want to go to forest and do target practice. I want to feel that power in my hand and I want to learn to harness it and use it responsibly and only when needed.
I want to hunt so I kill meat I eat, I have long given up buying meat.
Is that valid enough reasons for wanting an option to buy a gun?

No it's not and I'll tell you why. You don't know who in the fuck is buying this stuff. You want to hunt your own game for food? That's totally fine. But couldn't you also set up some traps or something?

I want to feel that power in my hand and I want to learn to harness it and use it responsibly and only when needed.
I want to feel that power in my hand
I have a sneaking suspicion that this is really, honestly, and truthfully, a secret pleasure that all gun owners have in the back of their minds and are usually reluctant to admit it.

No matter what ANY reason that ANYBODY gives for wanting guns, you don't know who in the hell is buying and if someones death was the result of a gun bought here on SR...What then? just because you wanted to hunt some rabbits, just because you wanted to feel the "power in your hand", If you wanted to protect your family or your house there are other ways... get a dog, get a security system installed, I'm sure there's tons of other ways. Or even because your country doesn't allow you to own guns, then that sounds like a revolution that the rest of your citizens in your country need to address yourselves.

The point I'm trying to make is this : Any reason you give for wanting guns, isn't worth the risk of an innocent person being shot by a gun purchased on our beloved SR.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jewfro on January 28, 2012, 08:40 pm
Damn you're all a bunch of hypocrites, your drugs should be allowed but my guns banned? because you guys don't make money with my bussiness it doesn't mean you should rule out other people, that's discrimination. You junkies go buy and use drugs as much as you want as long as you stay off my guns

go make a website for selling guns, and then you can GO FUCK YOURSELF. it's not hypocritical, it's not discrimination. it's EAT A FUCKING DICK AND FUCK OFF.

YOU WANT GUNS? GO MAKE A SITE FOR ALL THAT SHIT. EASY. LOOK AT THAT - FUCKING CAKE. AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH US STUPID HYPOCRITE ADDICTS, EITHER, YOU TOSSER FUCK.

you can fuck all the guns you want, and have them fuck your ass too, just TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. YOU AREN'T SHIT, YOU DON'T HAVE CLOUT, OR RIGHTS OR GODDAMN ANYTHING HERE.

YOU'RE NOT HAPPY?

FUCK

OFF.

Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: banalldrugs on January 28, 2012, 08:42 pm
Dude guns are hard to obtain in real life, drug vendors you can get to know easily but arms dealers are a lot harder so this forum is a great help to the unfortunate who can't find vendors in real life
Where do you live? In America its a peace of cake.
In the UK it's almost as hard as buying a nuke, they don't sell them on any street corner unlike drugs
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jewfro on January 28, 2012, 08:44 pm
Buying illegal guns in the U.S isn't all that easy.
I'm a big part of the gun community and can honestly say that I have never seen someone selling illegal guns.
(even at gun shows)

But, also, in my area getting REAL MDMA is near impossible too.

lol, i think if you want to buy illegal arms, the "gun community" isn't exactly the first place to go, since they're in the spotlight for anything weapon-related....

wouldn't it make more sense to check out the "fringe communities", which is to say the "ghetto-ass hood community" where i'm sure all the g's will be down to lay a strap onna brudda.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 28, 2012, 09:06 pm
Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
- yes and no
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 09:09 pm
Buying illegal guns in the U.S isn't all that easy.
I'm a big part of the gun community and can honestly say that I have never seen someone selling illegal guns.
(even at gun shows)

But, also, in my area getting REAL MDMA is near impossible too.
Why are you trying to buy guns illegally? Are you a hitman? Get a fucking license.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: SuperDimitri on January 28, 2012, 09:28 pm
I dont think its a good idea to sell guns on Silk Road

You get all this extra attention from the full spectrum of government law agencies, Homeland Security,  ATF, CIA,  FBI

and what worries me most,  these agencies could get Postal Service funding for super hardcore scanners for the mail, putting the tried and true drug trade through the ringer

Bring it else where gagsta nip

This is the most reasonable answer I have read, and just completely changed my whole outlook on this issue.
Just another reason to implement millions of dollars into high tech gadgetry to pop all our packages.
You just changed my mind.
I now vote NO.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 28, 2012, 09:32 pm
Alright. I personally have nothing against guns, but I don't believe they belong here at this current point in time. We are getting unwanted attention. The public used to view us as useless (Yet harmless) drug addicts. Now we'll be viewed as terrorists, regardless of how you use the guns you buy. That's just how it is, as of right now guns are more taboo than sex with children.

- the entire "ban on SR" issue , certain individuals think that if guns are banned SR will be left alone, left alone for perhaps 1 day.
- "guns are more taboo than sex with children" - laws are a shambles i wish i had the power to change it..
- "Now we'll be viewed as terrorists" - in case you haven't noticed governments apply wooly laws wherever they wish it to stick, if guns aren't to be sold there will always
   be something else something thinks should be illegal. SR will still be a target to be shut down; perhaps to minimise attention -perhaps.


otherwise its hoped people can discuss these matters in a civilised fashion.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 09:43 pm
Alright. I personally have nothing against guns, but I don't believe they belong here at this current point in time. We are getting unwanted attention. The public used to view us as useless (Yet harmless) drug addicts. Now we'll be viewed as terrorists, regardless of how you use the guns you buy. That's just how it is, as of right now guns are more taboo than sex with children.

- the entire "ban on SR" issue , certain individuals think that if guns are banned SR will be left alone, left alone for perhaps 1 day.
- "guns are more taboo than sex with children" - laws are a shambles i wish i had the power to change it..
- "Now we'll be viewed as terrorists" - in case you haven't noticed governments apply wooly laws wherever they wish it to stick, if guns aren't to be sold there will always
   be something else something thinks should be illegal. SR will still be a target to be shut down; perhaps to minimise attention -perhaps.


otherwise its hoped people can discuss these matters in a civilised fashion.
We won't be left alone, but the public support for a takedown of SR will be less. Anyone who hears about the anonymous terrorist website the silk road will pressure law enforcement to take it down. Now when we stick to drugs, we're just useless drug addicts that nobody cares about. Most people understand that drugs can be obtained with ease anywhere in the world, therefore they don't see this website as offering anything that there area doesn't already offer.
However, firearms aren't seen as something that is "common." They are seen as killers; not the people that pull the trigger.

Theirs no point in arguing with each other on SR; nobody here thinks guns are bad. We just are trying to avoid a bad press. If we push the small percentage of gun traders out, we drop down on everyone's give a fuck list.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 28, 2012, 09:53 pm
...otherwise its hoped people can discuss these matters in a civilised fashion.

Not possible I'm afraid.

You have a site full of drug addicts* who are afraid of losing their best supply. And what's so funny is that the site owners know that guns are being sold and aren't doing anything about it. Likely because they are confident in their security and because they are adhering more to their agorist principles of a free market.

Who's right and who's wrong? Neither side. Though those sticking to the truer sense of agorism are at least in line with SR's owners it seems.

The fear, however seemingly warranted, is unsubstantiated.

I can imagine SR's owners reading these threads and shaking their heads looking at all the addicts in a fear stricken tizzy. Almost as if they are going through withdrawal just by thinking of being off their drug of choice. 

*I'm one of those drug addicts, except I don't share the fear of many that guns will lead to this site's closure. I have a bit of faith in SR's owners to protect the site from LEO's long scaly arm.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: happyroller1234 on January 28, 2012, 09:54 pm
I'm glad someone decided to call a vote.  This is a good idea.  The users of SR should have most of the power...without us, SR has nothing.  If the majority of users do not believe guns should be on here (because of the attention or for other reasons), then they should be taken down.  If they aren't, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the owner of SR.  I'm somewhat appalled that they were posted in the first place, because wasn't he originally against guns being sold on here?
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on January 28, 2012, 09:57 pm
Alright. I personally have nothing against guns, but I don't believe they belong here at this current point in time. We are getting unwanted attention. The public used to view us as useless (Yet harmless) drug addicts. Now we'll be viewed as terrorists, regardless of how you use the guns you buy. That's just how it is, as of right now guns are more taboo than sex with children.
...
...
We won't be left alone, but the public support for a takedown of SR will be less. Anyone who hears about the anonymous terrorist website the silk road will pressure law enforcement to take it down. Now when we stick to drugs, we're just useless drug addicts that nobody cares about. Most people understand that drugs can be obtained with ease anywhere in the world, therefore they don't see this website as offering anything that there area doesn't already offer.
However, firearms aren't seen as something that is "common." They are seen as killers; not the people that pull the trigger.

Theirs no point in arguing with each other on SR; nobody here thinks guns are bad. We just are trying to avoid a bad press. If we push the small percentage of gun traders out, we drop down on everyone's give a fuck list.

ok, i am not entirely convinced this is the case by the same token you have a point....
so to compromise for the sake of everyone my guess is :-

1. what does SR think should be done?!
2. buyer/vendor feedback on the matter sent to SR / he reads the forum feedback himself.
3. draw up a tentative list of definite banned items not just guns.
4. enforce the ban list.

thanks
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 28, 2012, 09:59 pm
@Happyroller

That's a common misconception it seems. SR owners were never against anything being sold here. Read the sellers page. They asked that certain things not be sold here so as to not draw undue attention of LEO.

Now it seems the owners of SR are more confident in their security.

And BTW, this is not a democracy. Read the State of SR address. Even though top sellers were "consulted" the final decision came down to SR owners.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: freddieisdead on January 28, 2012, 10:18 pm
You're right Ben, this is not a democracy which almost makes this entire thread meaningless. There are already a hundred threads on the issue and this poll only makes it clear that more people would rather no guns than the alternative but it's not up to us. SR has the right to make the call and right now it allows for the sale of firearms. If that changes than so be it.

Democracy is essentially just two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: gaia on January 28, 2012, 10:37 pm
I can't be arsed with this endless bollocks anymore. I'm off to smoke some weed and get as many private dealer emails as I can.

Last word...if you want a gun, buy one legally. If you want an illegal gun, then you're a twat.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Aoth14 on January 28, 2012, 10:51 pm
I say no guns, just because of the ignorant masses who really buy into the gibberish propaganda and already relate guns and drugs as a connected form of badguyism. I own several guns, both legal and otherwise, While it does seem nice to have an easy place to get a gun, its much easier locally to get an unregistered, class 3, or no serial weapon, for a fraction of the cost. I know this isnt true for European countries,but I honestly dont know many people who can afford 1G for such a weapon, and dont already have access to them.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: rocketdog on January 28, 2012, 10:58 pm
Christ almighty. Just a swearword, I'm not a Christian. But the prices on SR are atrocious. If you really need a firearm and you're in the U.S. just pick up a copy of Shotgun News. Find a friend who has an FFL (Federal Firearms License) and you'll save big bucks.

Not that I'm encouraging gun ownership. Many humans are not responsible enough to have them. That said, I don't want the federal gov't  restricting more freedoms. It's gotta be a cultural thing where we realize that most of us are not at risk from coyotes and grizzlies. Most of us don't need to hunt food. And having a loaded gun in a house where children are present is stupid. I don't care how well you coach them, children do stupid things sometimes. Adults too.

Firearms, nine times out of ten, don't solve problems. That's a TV-bred Chuck Norris, Ted Nugent fantasy.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 28, 2012, 11:14 pm
...otherwise its hoped people can discuss these matters in a civilised fashion.

Not possible I'm afraid.

You have a site full of drug addicts* who are afraid of losing their best supply. And what's so funny is that the site owners know that guns are being sold and aren't doing anything about it. Likely because they are confident in their security and because they are adhering more to their agorist principles of a free market.

Who's right and who's wrong? Neither side. Though those sticking to the truer sense of agorism are at least in line with SR's owners it seems.

The fear, however seemingly warranted, is unsubstantiated.

I can imagine SR's owners reading these threads and shaking their heads looking at all the addicts in a fear stricken tizzy. Almost as if they are going through withdrawal just by thinking of being off their drug of choice. 

*I'm one of those drug addicts, except I don't share the fear of many that guns will lead to this site's closure. I have a bit of faith in SR's owners to protect the site from LEO's long scaly arm.
I don't mind being grouped with the drug users, but i personally have never used anything other than weed. So you're no better than me mother fucker.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: moonbear on January 28, 2012, 11:38 pm
What if the owners of SR hosted a separate website exclusively for guns and other weapons? That way people could still get the guns if they wanted them without associating SR with guns. It's a win-win situation! Besides, selling guns on here is like begging for attention, LEO will redouble their efforts to take SR down.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 28, 2012, 11:56 pm
...otherwise its hoped people can discuss these matters in a civilised fashion.

Not possible I'm afraid.

You have a site full of drug addicts* who are afraid of losing their best supply. And what's so funny is that the site owners know that guns are being sold and aren't doing anything about it. Likely because they are confident in their security and because they are adhering more to their agorist principles of a free market.

Who's right and who's wrong? Neither side. Though those sticking to the truer sense of agorism are at least in line with SR's owners it seems.

The fear, however seemingly warranted, is unsubstantiated.

I can imagine SR's owners reading these threads and shaking their heads looking at all the addicts in a fear stricken tizzy. Almost as if they are going through withdrawal just by thinking of being off their drug of choice. 

*I'm one of those drug addicts, except I don't share the fear of many that guns will lead to this site's closure. I have a bit of faith in SR's owners to protect the site from LEO's long scaly arm.
I don't mind being grouped with the drug users, but i personally have never used anything other than weed. So you're no better than me mother fucker.

Where did I say or imply that I was better then you? Read it again for the first time.

BTW, weed, though a plant, is a drug. Big whoop. Shouldn't be a negative connotation association with the word, drug.

And that's another problem. There is an acute lack of reading comprehension skills on here with all the emotions and fear. Probably why the owners have to make the rules and not cater to the whims of the community.

Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: torlander on January 29, 2012, 12:11 am
I remember there were so many of these pro-gun anti-gun vote threads a long time ago. The results always came out pro-gun over majority. I can see now  that SR has drawn too many people recently. Too many people that perhaps shouldn't be here.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 29, 2012, 12:17 am
I remember there were so many of these pro-gun anti-gun vote threads a long time ago. The results always came out pro-gun over majority.

Interesting to say the least. I suppose many didn't learn the lesson that this isn't a democracy, but a market.

Quote
I can see now  that SR has drawn too many people recently. Too many people that perhaps shouldn't be here.

Maybe, but it's a free market. The market will decide who stays and who goes. Speaking of which, we lost a few good sellers over the many months. Shame.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: novocaine on January 29, 2012, 01:21 am
wow another gun poll, awesome...

GUNS dont sell on SR and if for some reason ONE actually does sell after all the fuck around pms back and forth...' how are we going to do this' blah blah the only people buying them are LE 8) :o

WHO has bought a gun through SR escrow?.....Coppers

So dont worry yourself... the guns are in safe hands. ;) ;D ;D ;D



Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: trilogique on January 29, 2012, 01:30 am
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this.

As a matter of principle, I'd like to see guns allowed here, but in practice, and after much reflection, I'd have to say no.  I just want a place to buy clean drugs at reasonable prices, and I don't want my newly discovered honey-hole to be jeopardized by allowing sales of guns that I can legally purchase at my local gun shop.

In the US, drug charges are treated more severely when guns are involved, WITHOUT EXCEPTION.  As it stands right now, the imaginary links between drugs and terrorism are already being hyped by the government, and by the media puppets they control.  Throw weapons into the mix, and those links become even more validated in the minds of those who would already seek to shut down places like Silk Road.

In spite of my libertarian beliefs, I think drugs and weapons should be separated in this particular marketplace.
couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: anoncorp on January 29, 2012, 03:22 am
Should make weapons it's own site, seperate from this one.
The biggest problem with accepting weapons is no longer is this site now JUST the enemy of the US Feds, now every European and UK agency will be coming after it as they are extremely strict on gun control.

There is also a safety issue. How do you cladestinely ship ammunition? If you put it in the mail system, it is taken by PASSENGER aircraft.. meaning there's now undeclared ammunition in the belly of a passenger craft. These mail bags have often been slammed against walls, run over and other things while on the ramp and inside during the flight. There's a reason ammunition must be declared to the captain and stowed away far away from vital A/C parts.

I wouldn't want to be the vendor who shipped hidden ammo and have it go off accidentally killing the pilot or downing a plane. That's like terrorism charges.

Just my $0.02
If you want to avoid intelligence agencies focusing their attention on this site better ban the gun sales. The DEA has limited resources but now Homeland Security, ATF, Interpol, Scotland Yard and NSA/CSIS will get involved to shut down this gun market just like they did when carding forums started selling weapons out of Spain/Turkey

Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: mxchamp148 on January 29, 2012, 04:05 am
I have guns and have no problem with guns at all, and will always support gun rights. This is different though, I have been selling here on the silk road to support my family on top of the two jobs I have already. I also think that these weapons will be making to much noise and could be the final blow to our network and friend base we have all worked to establish. I think it will be drawing to much unwanted attention from all types of people including government and politics who are already looking for ways to shut us down. Working two jobs blows, and since the silk road, I haven't had to put in as much time at the office and such, it has been great and I don't want to lose this lovely network.

Cheers everyone,
148
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: guns4europe on January 29, 2012, 04:10 am
I have guns and have no problem with guns at all, and will always support gun rights. This is different though, I have been selling here on the silk road to support my family on top of the two jobs I have already. I also think that these weapons will be making to much noise and could be the final blow to our network and friend base we have all worked to establish. I think it will be drawing to much unwanted attention from all types of people including government and politics who are already looking for ways to shut us down. Working two jobs blows, and since the silk road, I haven't had to put in as much time at the office and such, it has been great and I don't want to lose this lovely network.

Cheers everyone,
148
Think of it this way, more guns=more attention=more clients for you=more money and everyone's happy :)
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: dance4life on January 29, 2012, 04:12 am
What does SR have to say about guns / weapons?

I don't know about you guys but I personally would not want to purchase one from here anyway.  50/50 chance it has a small gps tracker in it from your friends at the ATF.  Someone has already mentioned I believe you are putting the plane at risk that ships your gun by doing this.  All around a terrible idea.

Guns exponentially up the ante on this site, imo.  Also, if you are a legit seller, you could potentially be selling to someone who is going to kill multiple people.  Why would you want that on your hands? 
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: mxchamp148 on January 29, 2012, 04:13 am
Should make weapons it's own site, seperate from this one.
The biggest problem with accepting weapons is no longer is this site now JUST the enemy of the US Feds, now every European and UK agency will be coming after it as they are extremely strict on gun control.

Oh and I forgot!!!!!

I agree with Anoncorp

I belive if the Silk Road possibly just starts another site for its harder products under a name not related , like the white market or something and see how it works out instead of rolling the dice with the Silk road and possibly getting us shut down!

148
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: mxchamp148 on January 29, 2012, 04:18 am
I do agree there could be more business, and I'm happy with more business, but if we get shut down there will be no business at all.... which is ultimately what we should be trying to avoid...that would be No Bueno

148
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: A. Dubois on January 29, 2012, 04:36 am
It's what agorism is all about! Whatever floats your boat without sinking mine, and owning a gun for protection is A-OK with me. The Non Aggression Principle dictates that gun ownership is JUST FINE as long as you only use it against someone who is aggressing against you. Violence to prevent injury to yourself and loved ones is ALLOWED. I'm not Jesus or a Buddhist monk turning the other cheek, but that's ok for others if that's what they want. To dictate that others live that way is dead wrong. If you are dictating to others what they can and can't do, it's NOT an anonymous libertarian anarchist marketplace. Everyone seems to worry that having guns will bring heat, but the percentage of people in jail for guns is infinitesimal compared to the amount locked up for drugs. Silk Road by its very nature will bring heat, so the object should be to stay ahead of that heat. Gun sales don't give them more power or motivation to aggress against us than they already have.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: demarcko on January 29, 2012, 05:06 am
Everyone seems to worry that having guns will bring heat, but the percentage of people in jail for guns is infinitesimal compared to the amount locked up for drugs.

So just because there are more people in jail for drugs than guns means that having guns on SR shouldn't bring more attention? Makes perfect sense.

Silk Road by its very nature will bring heat, so the object should be to stay ahead of that heat. Gun sales don't give them more power or motivation to aggress against us than they already have.

Ya that's why Gawker was unmotivated to write another article ; Because guns have always been for sale here on SR.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: mxchamp148 on January 29, 2012, 05:16 am
I understand what your saying I think, which is that because we are already selling drugs which are illegal and drawing attention you, you believe that adding one more illegal product isn't going to change a thing we will still be illegal. I have to say that may not be the case, I think selling or promoting the sales of weapons (I believe there is a grenade launcher for sale! lol) we may be viewed as a terrorist organization which will in turn give us way more unwanted attention rather then if it were just the drugs. If Sept.11 never happened maybe not. I think it is a bad idea!!!

Cheers,
148
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: A. Dubois on January 29, 2012, 05:19 am
That's part of it but the main object is that you can't dictate what we can buy and sell and call this an anonymous agorist marketplace. You can't dictate what we buy and sell based on worries that are simply conjured up in your head! (Guns will bring heat)
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: theradblur on January 29, 2012, 05:39 am
Okay first of all, jewfro, writing in CAPS LOCK won't get your point across any better and it makes you look like a fool. Especially all the uncalled for name-calling. Come on dude, grow the fuck up. You sound like a prepubescent teenager about to have an aneurism.

Second, I'm all for the gun trade. I live in America and even though I don't own any firearms at the moment, I do believe in our constitutional right to bear arms. With that said, I am still deciding whether SR should allow the gun trade in their market place.

I am on the fence because all I see right now in both arguments are speculations. The side that doesn't want guns in the marketplace CLAIM (claim is important) that it will draw further attention to SR and ultimately they are SPECULATING that it will shut down SR due to increased effort from the Government to shut us down.

The side that says they want guns on SR believe this because they believe that SR should not be just a marketplace, but a symbol. This place is a small revolution in the technology age we now live in and they think SR shouldn't shy away from their oppressors and instead fight back. If guns will make the Government more weary of us, then good! Let them cower in fear from SR. The people that support guns on SR think SR can withhold from the attacks from the government and stay alive to flourish into this ideal symbol of a free market.

My question to you, ALL OF YOU, is that does having the gun trade on SR really make us more vulnerable? Will it be our demise if we continue to sell firearms? Where is the proof? Can SR withstand the attacks from the government if they choose to go all out on SR?

If SR is more vulnerable from the firearms and it will be our demise, and if taking guns out of the marketplace keep this place alive longer then I am all for abolishing firearms. At least until SR improves its defenses from attacks.  So please, can someone answer my questions?
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 29, 2012, 06:27 am
@theradblur

Exactly a large part of the issue. No one knows anything. It is pure, unsubstantiated, speculative fear. They have zero proof that gun sales will hasten SR's demise. They can only offer hypothetical situations which they believe will have the effect of rallying LE into an all out effort to shut SR down.

The other thing is that there's no precedent for anyone to draw upon to make a reasonable argument. This is clearly a unique situation.

The fear is so strong, that most can't even reflect on the incredible work that the owners of SR have done thus far to keep this place alive. The fear is so strong that most can't even muster a pebble's worth of faith in the owners of SR to continue to aptly defend SR from LE assault. Instead some have railed against the owners of SR going so far as calling them stupid when most if not all of them have no idea of what it takes to operate an enterprise such as this.

The answer might look something like this;

SR has always been under threat. The longer it exists, the greater the threat it faces. The owners of SR are acutely aware of this and take ever more stringent methods and contingencies to protect SR from LE threat. Adding guns may increase the desire of LE to institute a course of action with the purpose of halting SR from operations. But that desire doesn't automatically translate into success. It may be the case that rather than attempt to shut down SR, LE would be better served by using it as an intelligence gathering source. Something that would be easier to implement and that would yield far more data than if SR were to cease operations. They could use it to set up sting operations by posing as a seller of certain types of weapons. Plus there is political risk for a politician who rallies LE to attempt to shut SR down. Failure to shut down SR will hurt the politician, making them seem ineffectual and impotent. So even a politician would have to weigh the cost of failing.

Sen Chuck Schumer (D-NY), one of the most powerful and influential senators in the United States,  tried to rally the DEA and Dept of Justice back in June of last year to shut SR down. What came of it? Right, SR is still here.

Have a little faith in SR's owners to do everything in their power to keep SR safe from LE assault. So far they've done a damn good job. Why lose faith all of a sudden? Do you think European LE is more powerful and adept than the US's?

Let's all get a grip and continue to enjoy the fruits bestowed upon us by the creators and maintainers of SR.


 and likely federal powers don't want to shut it down but would rather use it in other, more effective

 
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: keldog09 on January 29, 2012, 07:10 am
I don't think guns belong on SR at this moment in time for two reasons:

1) While our community is vibrant and SR has implemented (what I would say to be) good security measures to protect users, adding guns to the equation this early in the game is a risk that SR isn't ready for. The illegal arms trade attracts a lot of serious negative attention and I don't think we have the resources to defend against some kind of large-scale take down. An association of violence with SR could also help push legislation similar to SOPA and PIPA into a good light and back on the table. Image isn't everything, but it counts for something if it could potentially gain a ton of negative media attention overnight (I'm sure it already has, I'm just posting on the fly).

2) There aren't a ton of legitimate reasons to buy unregistered firearms. Sure, I believe that people should be able to buy their own guns, but without any kind of registration or training you're just asking for trouble. I suppose you could make a similar argument in regards to illicit substances, but the intended use of an illicit substance has nothing to do with violence. There are only three reasons in my mind why one would want to purchase an unregistered firearm: to hurt/kill someone or oneself, to avoid consequences of serious criminal charges if one's not supposed to have guns in the first place, or if firearms are completely banned in ones country. It's not a good idea, even with potential profits, to get involved in any of those situations. I just don't view SR as that kind of place.

The first point is based entirely on speculation but I can definitely see it happening. Paranoia I suppose. The second point I've concluded from experience as in my area it's very easy to buy firearms or get licensees that pertain to firearms and it's this way in most of the United States (unless you're under 18 or have a felony) so I just can't see why there'd be a huge demand for illegal guns online.

SR shouldn't involve itself in messy stuff like that anyway. We're too classy.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: demarcko on January 29, 2012, 08:39 am
@theradblur

Exactly a large part of the issue. No one knows anything. It is pure, unsubstantiated, speculative fear. They have zero proof that gun sales will hasten SR's demise. They can only offer hypothetical situations which they believe will have the effect of rallying LE into an all out effort to shut SR down.
Unsubstantiated? Speculative? What else do you want? It sounds like what you're saying is that until something happens then we can't assume that anything will happen.

The fear is so strong, that most can't even reflect on the incredible work that the owners of SR have done thus far to keep this place alive. The fear is so strong that most can't even muster a pebble's worth of faith in the owners of SR to continue to aptly defend SR from LE assault. Instead some have railed against the owners of SR going so far as calling them stupid when most if not all of them have no idea of what it takes to operate an enterprise such as this.
You make it sound like SR is some kind of impenetrable fortress.

SR has always been under threat. The longer it exists, the greater the threat it faces. The owners of SR are acutely aware of this and take ever more stringent methods and contingencies to protect SR from LE threat. Adding guns may increase the desire of LE to institute a course of action with the purpose of halting SR from operations. But that desire doesn't automatically translate into success. It may be the case that rather than attempt to shut down SR, LE would be better served by using it as an intelligence gathering source. Something that would be easier to implement and that would yield far more data than if SR were to cease operations. They could use it to set up sting operations by posing as a seller of certain types of weapons. Plus there is political risk for a politician who rallies LE to attempt to shut SR down. Failure to shut down SR will hurt the politician, making them seem ineffectual and impotent. So even a politician would have to weigh the cost of failing.
Sounds like you think a sting operation wouldn't be that bad.
Title: As a social libertarian the control of guns is one thing I definitely believe
Post by: hucklepicklesbigs on January 29, 2012, 10:55 am
in. And I've done plenty of hunting and fired a wide range of weapons. I've also worked in countries where war was occurring.

SR has plenty on its plate without pushing the anonymous sale of weapons. Fighting the control of drugs and other panned non violent paraphernalia is a good place to start. 
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 29, 2012, 02:17 pm
@theradblur

Exactly a large part of the issue. No one knows anything. It is pure, unsubstantiated, speculative fear. They have zero proof that gun sales will hasten SR's demise. They can only offer hypothetical situations which they believe will have the effect of rallying LE into an all out effort to shut SR down.
Unsubstantiated? Speculative? What else do you want? It sounds like what you're saying is that until something happens then we can't assume that anything will happen.

No, what I'm saying is exactly what I said. Nothing more. It is what it is. Unsubstantiated and speculative. Nothing more attached to it. It's just a statement of fact.


Quote
The fear is so strong, that most can't even reflect on the incredible work that the owners of SR have done thus far to keep this place alive. The fear is so strong that most can't even muster a pebble's worth of faith in the owners of SR to continue to aptly defend SR from LE assault. Instead some have railed against the owners of SR going so far as calling them stupid when most if not all of them have no idea of what it takes to operate an enterprise such as this.
You make it sound like SR is some kind of impenetrable fortress.

Really? Read it again. Nothing of the sort said or even implied. Though few seem to acknowledge the work done thus far to secure Silk Road. It's almost as if they believe that Silk Road has never been under direct assault from LE.

Quote
SR has always been under threat. The longer it exists, the greater the threat it faces. The owners of SR are acutely aware of this and take ever more stringent methods and contingencies to protect SR from LE threat. Adding guns may increase the desire of LE to institute a course of action with the purpose of halting SR from operations. But that desire doesn't automatically translate into success. It may be the case that rather than attempt to shut down SR, LE would be better served by using it as an intelligence gathering source. Something that would be easier to implement and that would yield far more data than if SR were to cease operations. They could use it to set up sting operations by posing as a seller of certain types of weapons. Plus there is political risk for a politician who rallies LE to attempt to shut SR down. Failure to shut down SR will hurt the politician, making them seem ineffectual and impotent. So even a politician would have to weigh the cost of failing.
Sounds like you think a sting operation wouldn't be that bad.

Again, really? Seriously, that conclusion makes no sense. Absolutely none at all.

From your responses, I'm guessing English isn't your primary or first language. Which is fine. That may account for your confusion and difficulty in comprehending what was posted. There are of course other possibilities, considering.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: FreeLife1 on January 29, 2012, 02:32 pm
Its funny how the media makes a few bad apples the spokesman of our community. How many times has one bad guy spoke for an entire group in history...This will be addressed by the administrator today im sure, so keep looking out! Hopefully guns are removed ASAP.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: demarcko on January 29, 2012, 03:51 pm
It may be the case that rather than attempt to shut down SR, LE would be better served by using it as an intelligence gathering source. Something that would be easier to implement and that would yield far more data than if SR were to cease operations. They could use it to set up sting operations by posing as a seller of certain types of weapons.

and then you end the sentence. You leave us hanging with that. It's like ok... well a sting operation isn't something anybody wants either.

you shouldn't criticize your readers.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: FreeLife1 on January 29, 2012, 04:06 pm
I wonder how many pro gun people made 15 accounts each to vote yes....these numbers dont check out with me.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Silpheed on January 29, 2012, 04:34 pm
Right. But we can't have it called silk road, and we cant let the public know that the same person runs both sites. It would be better if one of these arms dealers would go out and make his own site. But they wont do that.

I can think of at least one other marketplace on TOR where all the gun vendors on SR could go, BMR.

However, if vendors go to another site then SR loses a cut of those sales.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 29, 2012, 04:36 pm
It may be the case that rather than attempt to shut down SR, LE would be better served by using it as an intelligence gathering source. Something that would be easier to implement and that would yield far more data than if SR were to cease operations. They could use it to set up sting operations by posing as a seller of certain types of weapons.

and then you end the sentence. You leave us hanging with that. It's like ok... well a sting operation isn't something anybody wants either.

Yes, obviously. Right? Of course no one wants that.

BTW, it's been a long held fear that LE could even pose as a seller of drugs. There are encumbrances that reduce the likelihood but that don't eliminate it. All depends on the agency tasked with the mission.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: gaia on January 29, 2012, 04:39 pm
I wonder how many pro gun people made 15 accounts each to vote yes....these numbers dont check out with me.

Good point. Works both ways though I guess. Polls mean little here, it's so easy to make several accounts.

Anyway, kudos to DBush, looks like he's been gently pushed, or he's listened to the community and made the right decision. Either way, respect.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 29, 2012, 05:26 pm
Right. But we can't have it called silk road, and we cant let the public know that the same person runs both sites. It would be better if one of these arms dealers would go out and make his own site. But they wont do that.

I can think of at least one other marketplace on TOR where all the gun vendors on SR could go, BMR.

However, if vendors go to another site then SR loses a cut of those sales.
We never had any gun sales. The only vendor was dbush, and I don't believe he even made one sale in the 2 days he was here.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: keldog09 on January 29, 2012, 06:23 pm
Quote
BMR

Let BMR be the source then. They can deal with the mess. It's not like anyone makes any profit on weapons here anyway.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: opendarkness on January 29, 2012, 10:34 pm
Damn you're all a bunch of hypocrites, your drugs should be allowed but my guns banned? because you guys don't make money with my bussiness it doesn't mean you should rule out other people, that's discrimination. You junkies go buy and use drugs as much as you want as long as you stay off my guns

I agree with 'guns4europe' that guns should be allowed here because they are illegal and this is a forum about illegal products.

So guns kill people and drugs dont? Sure.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: demonkleaner on January 29, 2012, 10:55 pm
guns and drugs dont mix, GUNS OR ANY WEAPON SHOULD NOT BE AVAILABLE ON SR........ there is another BlackMarket site and they belong on that site....... any weapons available on SR should stay in the USA or where ever the fuck they come from ...... and should not be available for international sale .not every country has gunlaws as relaxed as the USA . when the general public find out that automatic weapons are available world wide through this site WATCH HOW FAST SR WILL BE STOPPED THEN.....so i VOTE NO WAY
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: keldog09 on January 30, 2012, 12:58 am
Quote
Quote
Damn you're all a bunch of hypocrites, your drugs should be allowed but my guns banned? because you guys don't make money with my bussiness it doesn't mean you should rule out other people, that's discrimination. You junkies go buy and use drugs as much as you want as long as you stay off my guns

I agree with 'guns4europe' that guns should be allowed here because they are illegal and this is a forum about illegal products.

If we're going by that logic, then how would you feel if someone wanted to sell nuclear weapons of some kind or chemicals that are made specifically for killing humans? Legality doesn't regulate morality, but there's a good reason behind some of laws that exist. Use your head.

And how the hell is banning gun sales discrimination? That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. Come down from your cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it. Seriously.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: guns4europe on January 30, 2012, 07:33 am
Quote
Quote
Damn you're all a bunch of hypocrites, your drugs should be allowed but my guns banned? because you guys don't make money with my bussiness it doesn't mean you should rule out other people, that's discrimination. You junkies go buy and use drugs as much as you want as long as you stay off my guns

I agree with 'guns4europe' that guns should be allowed here because they are illegal and this is a forum about illegal products.

If we're going by that logic, then how would you feel if someone wanted to sell nuclear weapons of some kind or chemicals that are made specifically for killing humans? Legality doesn't regulate morality, but there's a good reason behind some of laws that exist. Use your head.

And how the hell is banning gun sales discrimination? That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. Come down from your cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it. Seriously.
That same logic can be applied to the gun sales on here, the money made by drug trade finances the Mexican cartels, the Taliban, the FARC,... They kill humans and with buying drugs you help maintain that violence indirectly. I found you some nice quotes on gun control:

"An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
"Gun control is not about guns; it's about control."
"If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words."
 "Free men do not ask permission to bear arms."
 "Those who trade liberty for security have neither."
"The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others."
"Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians."
"Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace and safety."
"You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive."
"Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer."
"If Guns cause Crimes, then Matches cause Arson."
"Only a government that is afraid of it's citizens try to control them."
"The American Revolution would never have happened with Gun Control."

I mean that it's discriminating that it's allowed you guys make money with drugs that brought heat too to this site in the past, but the people who sell guns lose their income after a single article. Not very fair

Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: kuwahara on January 30, 2012, 12:01 pm
People seem to go way off track with this.

1. Silk Road is not a free market.  The guides say they don't want any child porn for example or bio weps.
2. This is a vote, people are not necessarily hypocrites for wanting guns off here.  I want them off because they WILL get the place shut down, it is just a matter of time.  Americans may not realise just how big a deal being able to get guns is in Europe....a place where drugs are often very much quietly tolerated.   Internationl powers will not let this go, I think they would for drugs.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: moonbear on January 30, 2012, 01:33 pm
The admin decides what goes. Obviously he is okay with guns on SR. He hasn't even mentioned considering banning guns here.

Point is, talking isn't doing anything.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 30, 2012, 04:02 pm
True Moonbear, the admin decides. But it looks like talking about it made one gun dealer step out of the game.


@kuwahara, it's a polite request not to sell certain things on the sellers page... obviously, since guns were listed for a while. So that would indeed make it a free market.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: rowdyrasta on January 30, 2012, 04:58 pm
A few questions to those who are pro gun for SR.

What are your motives? Are you looking to purchase fire arms? Are you vending fire arms? Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?

Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?

great point doublemint.
go make your own site and sell all the guns you want.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: guns4europe on January 30, 2012, 05:50 pm
People seem to go way off track with this.

1. Silk Road is not a free market.  The guides say they don't want any child porn for example or bio weps.
2. This is a vote, people are not necessarily hypocrites for wanting guns off here.  I want them off because they WILL get the place shut down, it is just a matter of time.  Americans may not realise just how big a deal being able to get guns is in Europe....a place where drugs are often very much quietly tolerated.   Internationl powers will not let this go, I think they would for drugs.
There is the same story again, it's undeniable drugs have brought heat to this site in the past too, but did I hear anyone ask to ban drugs because they brought heat back then? You only care about your own desires but don't respect the ones of others.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: doublemint on January 30, 2012, 11:01 pm
A few questions to those who are pro gun for SR.

What are your motives? Are you looking to purchase fire arms? Are you vending fire arms? Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?

Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?

great point doublemint.
go make your own site and sell all the guns you want.
Im against guns for SR? You make your own site "guns4europe"
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: guns4europe on January 30, 2012, 11:12 pm
A few questions to those who are pro gun for SR.

What are your motives? Are you looking to purchase fire arms? Are you vending fire arms? Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?

Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?

great point doublemint.
go make your own site and sell all the guns you want.
Im against guns for SR? You make your own site "guns4europe"
I'll if the community donates me the money to do so, it's the fault after all of the 15 year drugged idiots on here who don't know anything about how LE works
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: BenJesuit on January 30, 2012, 11:27 pm
A few questions to those who are pro gun for SR.

What are your motives? Are you looking to purchase fire arms? Are you vending fire arms? Is it just because you believe SR should rebel against the government in every way?

Even though you are the minority, do you think its right to undo everything SR has accomplished thus far? Why can't you guys make your own site?

great point doublemint.
go make your own site and sell all the guns you want.
Im against guns for SR? You make your own site "guns4europe"
I'll if the community donates me the money to do so, it's the fault after all of the 15 year drugged idiots on here who don't know anything about how LE works

While it is true many do not know exactly how LE works, the knowledge wouldn't necessarily make them any more agreeable. The fear of a possibility is all it takes. You have to appreciate that fear. Here is a unique market to buy quality drugs. Some that can't readily be acquired where some live. Therefore, anything perceived as hastening the loss of that market will be disliked and fought against. With that in mind, you can't expect all persons to be fully rational. Many do understand the simple philosophy of why allowing guns on Silk Road would technically be right. But as I said, the fear is much stronger. And there's no precedent to draw faith from. One can't say, "well this site has been selling guns for 10 years and never had a problem with LE."   

So yes, many are being selfish. But surely you can understand and appreciate why.

There are other ways guns could be traded on here. There is the possibility of discreet listings. Listings that say one thing, but that might imply another and that require one to contact buyer before purchasing to learn of the actual details of the weapon. That was just off the cuff. Completely unpolished and likely unfeasible but it should get the brain juices flowing for those interested who may not have thought in that direction.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jj06 on January 31, 2012, 08:49 am
I know this is all being discussed ad nauseum, but I want to weigh in.

I fully support selling guns, as well as anything there's a demand for, through sites like this. But I just don't understand: Why can't there just be a different site for guns/hits/whatever else? The same person(s) who run SR can do it, and would still get all the ideological and financial glory from it, but it would attract much less risk. For both sites. A site that sells both guns and drugs is MUCH more of a target than 2 sites, one selling drugs and the other selling guns.

While it would be extremely difficult to bring SR down, I don't doubt for a second that if the US .gov really went after SR it could do some serious damage. TOR is very sophisticated, but not perfect. No matter what countermeasures are taken, I just can't see believing otherwise. And there's no way of avoiding stings targeting the members; all it would take was a few highly publicized arrests to make everyone feel unsafe and substantially reduce the activity here.

What makes having everything under the same name so beneficial that it's worth not mitigating the risk by separating things? I'd submit that the ideological statement simply doesn't outweigh the risks of having a one colossal target larger than two smaller targets combined. Two separate sites is a win-win-win scenario in my eyes.
 
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: watmm on January 31, 2012, 07:53 pm
SR should allow the sale of anything in which the production or use of it doesn't require an involuntary victim.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jeanvaljean on February 01, 2012, 07:45 am
SR should allow the sale of anything in which the production or use of it doesn't require an involuntary victim.
Then we can ban GHB too since it can be used as rape drug
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: cindylove on February 01, 2012, 09:42 am
Has anyone of the anti-gun people ever considered that with all these drugs most of us purchase here that if our house was invaded by thugs, calling the cops isn't really an option because of that ounce of blow under my bed? Let and let live, you do your dope and let those who want heat to get their heat.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: cindylove on February 01, 2012, 09:45 am
SR should allow the sale of anything in which the production or use of it doesn't require an involuntary victim.

If you invade someones house that doesn't really qualify as involunary if the owner decides to protect his property.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Mecajesus on February 01, 2012, 10:41 am
No thank you.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Damod78 on February 01, 2012, 11:41 am
listen to the people!

Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: gazwel on February 01, 2012, 11:48 am
If the UK media found out about the guns then the pressure would be on the site big time. Never mind the US media and how they report it, guns are viewed differently over here. Some people in other countries might think "who cares about the UK media" but trust me when I say if the UK media got a hold of this then the site would probably not last long :(

There would be a campaign etc. and it would just be bad for us. Keep guns away in my opinion.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: watmm on February 01, 2012, 12:49 pm
SR should allow the sale of anything in which the production or use of it doesn't require an involuntary victim.
Then we can ban GHB too since it can be used as rape drug

'can' conflicts with 'require'.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: watmm on February 01, 2012, 12:50 pm
SR should allow the sale of anything in which the production or use of it doesn't require an involuntary victim.

If you invade someones house that doesn't really qualify as involunary if the owner decides to protect his property.

I don't follow.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: FiveSeven on February 01, 2012, 12:53 pm
If the UK media found out about the guns then the pressure would be on the site big time. Never mind the US media and how they report it, guns are viewed differently over here. Some people in other countries might think "who cares about the UK media" but trust me when I say if the UK media got a hold of this then the site would probably not last long :(

There would be a campaign etc. and it would just be bad for us. Keep guns away in my opinion.

The DEA (among others) has had SR in their sights for a long time. Nothing's happened yet.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: dpb on February 01, 2012, 04:15 pm
I like the idea of being able to buy a gun without having it officially registered in a government database; that database can be used to round up all the guns when they decide to turn this into an all out police state. The right to bear arms was written into the constitution with the intention of protecting citizens against an oppressive government. If you don't want guns to be sold on Silk Road, don't buy guns from it; they can't do business if you don't give it to them. Let the free market regulate itself!
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jeanvaljean on February 01, 2012, 09:28 pm
SR should allow the sale of anything in which the production or use of it doesn't require an involuntary victim.
Then we can ban GHB too since it can be used as rape drug

'can' conflicts with 'require'.
Guns don't require a victim too, they can be used for target shooting
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: watmm on February 01, 2012, 09:42 pm
SR should allow the sale of anything in which the production or use of it doesn't require an involuntary victim.
Then we can ban GHB too since it can be used as rape drug

'can' conflicts with 'require'.
Guns don't require a victim too, they can be used for target shooting
That's my point  :)
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: sonic on February 01, 2012, 11:52 pm
Sure, sell some guns.  As long as you pay your SR fees you can sell whatever the hell you'd like, I'd imagine. 

Are you, from the POV of a site owner, going to outlaw hundreds to thousands of dollars per gun order that you can tax?  Guns are good business for SR.  Plus, it draws publicity and brings new people into the scene drawing even more cash.  No publicity is bad publicity, and from a business stand-point: guns are good business.

Like them or hate them they will go down with the ship.  How is meth less dangerous than a Beretta, by the way?  The Beretta probably will never even be used.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: ianfleming on February 02, 2012, 02:08 am
Quote
I like the idea of being able to buy a gun without having it officially registered in a government database
You don't have to register a rifle or shotgun anyway. And quite a few states don't even require registration of pistols.
Unless your buying NFA items.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Terminal Viscosity on February 02, 2012, 02:20 am
Exactly.

And even thought the DEA etc might not be interested in baiting buyers and busting them, the ATF most certainly is, and is notorious for doing so. Anybody from the US who buys a gun on here is a fucking idiot beyond belief. I don't know about overseas, but from my perspective, a lot of foreign countries take guns as a much more serious threat than small amounts of drugs.

For the most part guns are not that hard to legally get in the US (except if you're a felon, in which case get a fucking shave and haircut, don't dress like a thug, and buy one face to face, totally legal in most places in the US), full auto is useless anyway, and modifications like shorter barrels can be made at home. 

Love guns, voted no.

Quote
I like the idea of being able to buy a gun without having it officially registered in a government database
You don't have to register a rifle or shotgun anyway. And quite a few states don't even require registration of pistols.
Unless your buying NFA items.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Sunwarrior on February 02, 2012, 02:44 am
Really though question.

I voted YES and instantly started to think that I was wrong. It would have been the same if I had voted NO.

PRO - I like it to be because why would be restricted to have a fire weapon (if we can easily have knives and hurt anyone if we wanted)?
CON - Why the hell would we need fire weapons? To have attention when we speak to our leaders? Really doubt so.

Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: ianfleming on February 02, 2012, 02:53 am
Quote
full auto is useless anyway, and modifications like shorter barrels can be made at home. 
These things are legal to civilians in the U.S anyway.
You can buy a transferable machine gun made before 1986, it's just going to cost you an extra $200 and a lengthy background check.
If you can legally buy a pistol you can buy a suppressor/silencer, short barrled shotgun, or even a machine gun.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Atticus on February 02, 2012, 02:55 am
I don't think that guns should be allowed on Silk Road for the same reasons as many others have stated.

Firstly it will create a lot more negative media attention than Silk Road currently already has. It'll change Silk Road in the eyes of the public as the basis for the story of 'Mark' buying five tabs of LSD to the story of some other guy who bought a Glock 18 and shot up a school. Regardless of if that's the reality of it or not.

Secondly I like Silk Road as it is, my secret online source of any drug I want. Guns are still available on other sites on Tor, regardless of the increased risk on other sites. But guns are overall a much riskier thing than drugs anyway. I think Silk Road would be better off as a primarily drug website. I know that guns won't affect it too much this way as it'll still sell drugs - but that's just the way I'd like it to continue to be.

Thirdly I'm a bit of a pacifist. I acknowledge violence is necessary in some occasions but overall I am not in favor of supporting violence. I am too very liberal in my views but I do not think than real guns being legal is a good thing from society. (Mind you, I'm from the UK and have grown up in an environment where guns aren't common or legal.)
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Terminal Viscosity on February 02, 2012, 03:00 am
I know. I meant for a felon, but reading my post back I was not very clear.
Quote
full auto is useless anyway, and modifications like shorter barrels can be made at home. 
These things are legal to civilians in the U.S anyway.
You can buy a transferable machine gun made before 1986, it's just going to cost you an extra $200 and a lengthy background check.
If you can legally buy a pistol you can buy a suppressor/silencer, short barrled shotgun, or even a machine gun.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: ianfleming on February 02, 2012, 03:45 am
Quote
some other guy who bought a Glock 18
Really, getting a Glock 18 is one of the RAREST and hardest to acquire FA weapons, period.
Even for a Class 7 FFL, you have to have a REASON to get one, it becomes a dealer sample, and even then it's VERY hard.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: fiona on February 03, 2012, 03:12 pm
guns are allowed for sale here

http://w6jkkh2wrar57rnl.onion

join us
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: Oldtoker on February 03, 2012, 03:42 pm
I agree with most on here that the sales of guns on here just brings too much unwanted attention.  I'm all for a free market place but, by including guns, it seems to me, we are just asking for the wrong type of attention.  If there is a big enough market for the sales of guns then do it under another website. 
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: abcdefghijklmnop on February 04, 2012, 04:23 am
I'm a Democrat with a strong belief in my 2nd amendment rights (imagine that.)  I love guns and own many, and I believe an armed populace is good for a society.  Not really trying to debate any of that - I am comfortable where I stand and am not offended by other viewpoints - I just wanted to provide context for my "No" vote.

However, what if the owner of SR were to basically clone the site, rename everything, separate backend and hosting and everything?  The cost would be minimal (reuse all the code, etc.), but could protect SR (the drug site) in case the other side caught too much heat.

Regardless of who ends up owning it, I think a separate site can provide the same level of service for a different market, and the two will end up "safer" in the end.  I can only hope SR is already looking into a distributed architecture for this site as it is.
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jpisbetterthanme on February 04, 2012, 06:24 am
Champions of SR: "This site is great! People should be able to have the freedom to not be told what they can and cannot buy, say, or do. FREEDOM!!!!! Also, nobody should ever be allowed to purchase guns."


JPIsBetterThanMe: "And now for some inappropriate affect::     8)"




And now for some inappropriate affect::     8)
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: klaaat21 on February 04, 2012, 06:32 am
Great thread.
I keep looking for the upvote / downvote button  (like reddit)
It would be nice to be able to agree or disagree with someone's post by clicking on a button
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: jpisbetterthanme on February 04, 2012, 06:33 am
Great thread.
I keep looking for the upvote / downvote button  (like reddit)
It would be nice to be able to agree or disagree with someone's post by clicking on a button


I DISAGREE.



.... So two buttons, then?
Title: Re: Guns on SR? Vote now.
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on February 05, 2012, 11:56 am
...request a re-edit option on vote pls !!!