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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: gtelop on June 30, 2012, 05:42 pm

Title: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: gtelop on June 30, 2012, 05:42 pm
I've done LSD and tons of weed. I love it. I like especially the philosophical mode of thought you get into on the comedown of a great trip on acid. Now I've come across here on SR some drugs that claim to have the effect of LSD but without the "mindfuck". To me mindfuck sounds like something really bad, something you don't want a drug to have as a quality.

So what do people mean when they say a drug has less/more mindfuck? Is it the way that the drug makes you think different? As my experience with acid, where my thoughts get more lucid, associative and non-interrupted (by other irrelevant thoughts). To me that is what mindexpansion stands for. But, of course, if we mean fuck as in love-making then I agree ;) Mind-love-making. Yeah.

Do you prefer a psychedelic with or without mindfuck? Why? What would you say is different in the experience?
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: Gary Oak on June 30, 2012, 06:56 pm
Basically strong psychedelics give people the notorious mindfuck, which is define as an idea or concept that shakes one's previously held beliefs or assumptions about the nature of reality. It could be from LSD or shrooms making you realize how small you are in the universe, or listening to The Beatles or Grateful Dead and suddenly understanding the music on a whole different level. Ketamine is probably a pretty good example of a mindfuck as well despite being a dissociative. ;)
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: wretched on June 30, 2012, 07:20 pm
I guess I don't have the official LSD brethren definition of mindfuck, but I define it as the loss of total ability to focus on a single item when you are in the time warp. an example would be when tripping in a hotel room on the last night of a vacation. mid peak, I realize that I need to set the alarm to wake me up before checkout time. I stand up from the chair where I was sitting, and during the 6 foot journey to the clock on the side table.....I not only aged, but I forgot HOW to set the alarm. I knew I needed to, so I began looking for the instruction manual. I just can't remember where I keep this goddamn manual. I know I've used it before! I tear the room apart looking for the manual, but once I see the bible that they leave in the room, I decide that it is a useless search, and I am smarter than this machine, so it is time to get back to the task of setting the alarm. I look at the clock for nearly an hour before I realize that I have had the alarm time set all week for checkout time. I return to my chair to collect myself before heading out of the room for a trip into the wild outdoors. The second I sit down, I wonder about the alarm once again. I know I set it but how do I make sure it will go off in the morning? the task of sliding the switch into the alarm position just seems too simple to have worked, so I feel the need to test it out. "WHERE IS THE FUCKING MANUAL" I scream in a fit of rage. At the sound of this, my trip-mate comes out of the bathroom laughing and asks me if I am ready to go out yet. I asked what he was laughing about, and he told me that while I had been working on setting my clock for what seemed like hours, that 5 minutes had actually passed and he reminded me that we had a standing wake-up call, and we actually had another night of tripping ahead of us before having to check out.


tl;dr  I was outsmarted by an alarm clock while on LSD (that is my definition of mindfuck)
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: mito on June 30, 2012, 07:40 pm
Some K and M hole experiences are mindfucking IMO.     
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: Frostbite on June 30, 2012, 07:51 pm
When i had a 25-i trip by myself, thinking about my fathers schizophrenia and abuse he has put my older brother through.. i started getting extremely emotional in a good way and i started to love people for what they are, rather than what i want them to be and slowly my thoughts started getting more abstract. i realized that we are all merely products of our own biochemistry and genetics hence the attraction to in normal people who look like their parents, our cognitive processes which are GREATLY influenced by our environment and our perception of it, nature aims to make our gene pool to be as diverse as possible for survival, nature is the structure of everything in the universe and it saddens my heart that some people are brought up without love, learning the situations of this planet through a dark perspective from someone who holds such a influence on them. I cried and I wanted to make this planet a place with less hate..

haha thats the type of mindfuck i got :)

I could be wrong about anything but i dont 100% believe in anything, just read into terence mckenna and youll find out haha

its weird how people say that 25-i doesnt give them a mindfuck, i guess set and setting was responsible
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: wretched on June 30, 2012, 07:57 pm
Frostbite, that doesn't sound like mindfuck at all, but that sounds like a beautiful trip of the mind. I associate mindfuck with bad aspects of a trip, and while being overcome with emotion in that way can be difficult, it is also beautiful to experience it, so I would chalk that up in the great trip category. Thanks for sharing it with us!
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: Frostbite on June 30, 2012, 08:02 pm
yeah i suppose :) i havent had anything past a level 3 trip so i wouldnt really know haha, but im looking forward to doing some DMT
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: mito on June 30, 2012, 08:04 pm
^^^ I agree.   That's more like an insight, a moment of enlightenment.
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: Frostbite on June 30, 2012, 08:26 pm
haha thanks :)  it felt like i was reborn.... terence mckenna has had such a strong influence on me lol
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: gtelop on June 30, 2012, 11:01 pm
Thanks for all the answers. Kinda made it clearer to me. Will do some of DMT tomorrow for the first time. Would you say that DMT gives a mindfuck or is it just so utterly weird but good, like Frostbites trip on a higher level, and that the mindfuck would be a bad DMT-trip? As if you would meet a dark entity that would fuck with you? Shouldn't think of those dark beings right now though ;)
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: LeftCrtl on July 01, 2012, 06:14 pm
Basically strong psychedelics give people the notorious mindfuck, which is define as an idea or concept that shakes one's previously held beliefs or assumptions about the nature of reality. It could be from LSD or shrooms making you realize how small you are in the universe, or listening to The Beatles or Grateful Dead and suddenly understanding the music on a whole different level. Ketamine is probably a pretty good example of a mindfuck as well despite being a dissociative. ;)

I have experienced a altering change while under the influence of Ketamine. After the first time I injected K my entire perception about life changed. I had closed eye visual hallucinations the entire time following my journey as an atom. I didn't have a choice in were I was going, but I was in a group of thousands of other atoms all working together. I realized that when I die I will decompose and help support life as a whole. I don't see a individual as a single entity that contains a soul, but rather a carbon based person held together by trillions of cells. Matter is one as a whole. Everything is created, and destroyed by matter. You are just a walking evolutionary mutation of matter. That experience took away my fear of death, and popped my IM cherry.  I recommend Ketamine to anyone who is curious about the substance, but it's not cheap.
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: SpeedCrunch on July 01, 2012, 10:06 pm
Basically strong psychedelics give people the notorious mindfuck, which is define as an idea or concept that shakes one's previously held beliefs or assumptions about the nature of reality. It could be from LSD or shrooms making you realize how small you are in the universe, or listening to The Beatles or Grateful Dead and suddenly understanding the music on a whole different level. Ketamine is probably a pretty good example of a mindfuck as well despite being a dissociative. ;)

I have experienced a altering change while under the influence of Ketamine. After the first time I injected K my entire perception about life changed. I had closed eye visual hallucinations the entire time following my journey as an atom. I didn't have a choice in were I was going, but I was in a group of thousands of other atoms all working together. I realized that when I die I will decompose and help support life as a whole. I don't see a individual as a single entity that contains a soul, but rather a carbon based person held together by trillions of cells. Matter is one as a whole. Everything is created, and destroyed by matter. You are just a walking evolutionary mutation of matter. That experience took away my fear of death, and popped my IM cherry.  I recommend Ketamine to anyone who is curious about the substance, but it's not cheap.

The only type of mindfuck that I have ever experienced was during an LSD trip about 150-200ug. I watched the Beatles movie yellow submarine and it just shattered my sanity.

I just wanted to crawl out of my own skin and just felt myself suffering at one point I was thinking about skinning myself alive with surgical instruments to escape my body.

My thoughts just kept getting more and more dark. It was all very creepy I have never had a trip that was so dark before.

About 5 hours in I took 40mg diazepam and about 30 minutes latter I began to calm down.
But my mind just felt as though as if it where stuck like my body and mind where stuck between two alternate dimension.

But with that said that's the only type of mindfuck that I have ever had if that qualifies as mindfuck.

But I have had 2 trips since then and they have been very beautiful. (It's all set/setting)

I have a trip log saved from that bad trip I been thinking about posting but it does get rather dark..

But anyway has anyone else ever had an experience of literally wanting to crawl out of your own skin on LSD?
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: breathe on July 02, 2012, 04:32 am
what I've gathered from the first page of this thread is that mindfuck doesn't really mean anything
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: Barbijuana on July 02, 2012, 06:38 am
I got my shit shattered -- coming down off some rolls took a few hits of liquid at a festival. Was already apprehensive getting the unknown dose since there was talk of some bad product in circulation. Anxiety +1. The onset was extremely quick and ended up getting lost trying to find campsite. Anxiety +2. Ran into an ex girlfriend who was sluttin down on some random guys face along a walkway. Anxiety +3.

Finally found HQ and had blankets over the windows of car for pitch black effect and the there was a complete disassociation of time and if I was dreaming or awake at some points. The attempt to hang on to sanity is an increasingly downward spiral. The harder you try to explain, deal and fight off the dip out of reality becomes extremely frustrating and the last thing I wanted was to be "that guy" who ruins everyone's night. My mind got stuck in a limbo and a repeated thought process. For some god awful reason I tried to explain this at the time but came out as incomprehensible blabber.

At some point I had my best friend wielding a full battery loaded Mag light while I was on all fours telling him to knock me out with a blow to the back of the head. Luckily one of the guys we were with had only taken some MDMA and was keenly aware that this would of been a grave mistake. The entire next day I was on edge and was catching audible hallucinations from anyone that walked by, seeing eyes constantly shifting back and forth and was under the impression that my best friend had plans to kill me.

Bad trip or mindfuck, either way it has definitely left its mark that leaves me slightly anxious anytime before taking psychs anymore. I actually broke a two year hiatus with a solo trip of 2mg of 25i just last night and it was great and feels good to be back.
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: gtelop on July 02, 2012, 12:16 pm
Glad to have you back Barbijuana. I hope you will stay with us, on the bus, for a long time without any trouble in your mind.

What I've gathered from the previous posts is that there are Good trips, Bad trips and Mindfucks. The difference between Bad trip and Mindfuck is very subtle and fleeting. Basically a Mindfuck is more screwing with your perception of reality in a way that is frustrating, annoying and uneasy; and a Bad trip is more of a horrible, terrifying and dark experience. A mindfuck I could imagine be a part of a good trip if you just let go and say "fuck it, just go ahead and fuck with my mind, I don't give a shit, or even, this is what I want", while a Bad trip is always a Bad trip. I don't know, really, haven't had too much experience yet and no bad trips, just episodes of mindfuck in an overall Good trip. Maybe it's something like this; the more mindfuck a drug gives you, the likelier you are to get into a bad trip, and even more so if you are prone to not be able to handle the mindfuck aspect? Say, LSD is more prone to induce a bad trip than 25i-NBOMe because of the larger mindfuck aspect of an acid-trip. (Based on what I've read about 25i-NBOMe. Never tried it myself.)

Off-topic:
Anyhow, I did DMT for the first time yesterday. Failed at first attempt and succeeded at the second. Long story short. My mind and body got separated, but I was still aware of my body failing to breath and kept on swallowing instead back where it was, but it was all cool. I trusted it would take care of itself. I saw three huge blobs, made of some membrane, in orange geometric fast pacing figures as "skin". They did something, two were uninterested, one gave me a little attention and poked me a couple of times as to just entertain me. I thought all the time that this is just the outside of hyperspace, the wall to push through as if the blobs were gatekeepers. I heard in the back of my mind Dr. Strassman or McKenna or myself telling me to push through, not to give in to amazement, but I couldn't. It all lasted 3 minutes that felt like 15-20 something if I would try to render it into our spacetime. I would suppose this was just barely a breakthrough and I'm stoked to try it again.
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: advanced motion on July 02, 2012, 10:12 pm
Quote
But anyway has anyone else ever had an experience of literally wanting to crawl out of your own skin on LSD?

Absolutely. At some point every single time I did it. Which was maybe a handful of times from when I was 17-19 years old... Half a lifetime ago (almost). There was some educational and good things about those few trips I took. Made me understand so much about popular culture, for one thing.

I was fairly sensitive to it, I guess, as I could never speak, everything scared me, I'd have these panic induced thoughts about how I had taken too much and would end up never coming back again and being put into a mental institution. I do believe the setting was the problem though. There were always too many strange incidents that would happen (as they do on LSD- you know what I mean), we were too out in public, there were too many people around I didn't know well, etc.  I never took huge amounts ( I'm female, 5'6, 140 lbs). The most I've ever taken was 2 hits of Mad Hatter blotter, but it was not the worst trip for me. But "mindfuck" to me is the "negative thought loop" and paranoia aspects. Things that would alert others to knowing you are on a drug.

Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: alreadytaken on July 03, 2012, 03:23 am
justin bieber
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: Spunkaroo on July 03, 2012, 10:25 am
My 2 cents on mindfuck? Watching a foreign language film at the peak of a 1000 ug LSD trip and starting to think you're from that country. I think it was a German film, but it was a while ago now...

I have to admit I didn't really mind that experience, but the rest of trip was amazing, and that may have coloured any negativity that was there at the time.
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: DisgruntledUser on July 04, 2012, 09:38 am
A mindfuck is when you look at an M.C. Escher picture, and it looks normal until you realise that the angles don't make sense or it changes dimensions or something.

With psychedelics, there is usually a divide between visuals and mindfuckery. Visuals are obviously the little swirling patterns and whatnot that you see when tripping and are what most people associate with the trip itself. The Mindfuckery is stuff like a lost sense of time, epiphanies and some of the more intense and coherent visuals.

Visual archetype Psychedelic: DMT
Mindfuckery archetype Psychedelic: Mushrooms
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: wretched on July 05, 2012, 03:46 am
while not mindfuck exactly, but mindfuck related

to celebrate the holiday today I took a larger than normal dose of 4-aco-dmt followed an undisclosed amount as a bump as soon as the first peak hit, and it sent me into the worst timewarp I have ever been, but it was great to relive the 15 minutes of this particular peak over and over while watching a lit cigarette smoulder in the ashtray, and trying to follow the fleeting whisps of smoke. I kept forgetting that I had lit one, and reached for one from my pack, but got distracted by the smoke, then the smoke would make me crave a smoke, so I would reach for a fresh one from the pack, but get distracted by the smoke. I couldn't tell you how long this went on for, or how many camels I lit without smoking them today. 
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: Huxlay on July 05, 2012, 11:36 pm
What is mindfuck? 

Mindfuck- The disconnection of a structured evolving thought process cross fading into a deep subconscious maze of non comprehensible thought in a already altered state of awareness shunning down on cognitive connection; revealing an infinite stream of unknown patterns within, which throws you off into the complete loss of any scope of comprehension.


rantrant
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: gtelop on July 06, 2012, 11:42 am
Hooray! Nice words Huxlay. I think that kinda pinpointed what I was trying to say. Mindfuck equals incomprehension and Bad trip is the feelings of terror, horror or whatever negative emotion you get. If you have a hard time accepting a stream of incomprehensible stimuli, just letting go, then you might be propelled into a Bad trip. I'm trying to become a sort of a shaman/guru/guide for my friends and you all have helped me alot.
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: cosmicwizard on July 06, 2012, 09:16 pm
What is mindfuck? 

Mindfuck- The disconnection of a structured evolving thought process cross fading into a deep subconscious maze of non comprehensible thought in a already altered state of awareness shunning down on cognitive connection; revealing an infinite stream of unknown patterns within, which throws you off into the complete loss of any scope of comprehension.


rantrant

+1
Title: Re: What is "mindfuck"?
Post by: tordemon on July 06, 2012, 09:32 pm
I feel like it depends on how you use it (and the context). At least in my group of friends, if you say something causes a lot of mindfuck, then the substance is rather stoning and makes things confusing. This is in particular the case with shrooms for me. A mindfuck is something that really just blows your mind, and most likely makes your jaw drop with surprise. The best example of that was 2C-E for me, when I stared at fractals and just couldn't believe the beauty of what I was watching.

Also, with the LSD that you've mentioned, I feel like mindfucks usually happen a lot more frequently with higher doses, such as were sold in the 60s. I don't get too many of those with the low-dosage tabs floating around these days.