Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: neonindian on November 23, 2011, 03:51 am

Title: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: neonindian on November 23, 2011, 03:51 am
I am interested in purchasing some heroin although using it intravenously is out of the question.  So I'm guessing the only other possible routes are insufflation, oral, or maybe smoking?  Which of those three methods are the most efficient/safest and what would be a good starting dose.  I plan to be very cautious when using the product as it would be my first time experimenting with the substance.  Any other feedback/tips would be greatly appreciated.  You guys rock! Thanks!
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: microRNA on November 23, 2011, 06:05 am
From someone who has become dependent, you should really consider whether you want to experiment with opiates. Read the threads on here like "should I try heroin" and others. The addiction really sneaks up on you and you dont see yourself getting tangled up till its too late. That being said, at least you are approaching it responsibly, so just be extremely careful and remember you can always take more but you can never take less.

I will say that if you are interested in heroin and have not tried the prescription opiates you should start there. The effects of insufflated heroin is remarkably similar to oxycodone. If you are familiar with oxycodone, and want something even more comparable to H, you should do some research into oxymorphone. Many even prefer it because the potency rivals that of H but it can be dosed accurately. Like heroin it is extremely dangerous, will make your tolerance skyrocket, and should not be underestimated. Oxymorphone and alcohol absolutely should not be mixed fyi. I provided more info in the thread I referenced if you are interested.

I strongly recommend you actually do not try heroin. It was just disappointing and a rip-off. There are too many variables that pharms let you avoid, but if you are committed... then insufflation is the best way to go. You need powder, not tar which would need to smoked. Personal tolerances and batch strength are different, so it is best to start with extremely tiny match-head size bumps and work your way up to where you feel decent. There really is no safe method to use H, but the same ROA generalizations apply... smoking will provide a more intense rush but not last as long due to the rapid delivery of the drug to circulation.
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: neonindian on November 23, 2011, 06:22 am
That's why I feel its the "safest" way to get it here on SR, not getting it from a guy from down the street.  I really just want to try it once, or whatever the smallest amount I could purchase on SR. I've done the prescription drugs and all and snorting oxycontin or whatever and wasn't one of my most memorable experiences. 
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: ketaaa on November 23, 2011, 06:50 am
forget your idea ;)
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: microRNA on November 23, 2011, 10:23 am
Like I said, insufflated H and roxy are very similar... if you dont enjoy oxycodone much then certainly dont expect great things from H. I was like you, just wanted to try it once since SR provided access, but it was nothing but a waste of money and I wish I had just gotten my roxy. First off, I received product from the most reputable vendor on SR recently that others were satisfied with. The bags were unbelievably light, 4 times less in weight than the least I ever thought would be in them. I expected the powder to kick my ass since I have such a low tolerance that others scoffed at my dosages. I was so surprised by how disappointing it was and much it cost for mostly cut. I contacted the vendor who said everyone else was happy and that he essentially overcharges on large amounts to prevent people like us from trying it. I just dont want your expectations to be too high like mine were. Plus that is even if you manage to pick a decent vendor since most will just flat out scam you without even sending a shitty product. There are new vendors now such as Aphex who appear to be promising though. Even if you get the product from a reliable vendor on SR, it is still a street drug that contains literally who knows what...

Since you want to try heroin for the experience, I urge you to actually consider oxymorphone and do some research on it compared to H. In my opinion it is more potent and enjoyable than the bags of powder I tried. Lovely warm blanket like I expected from H but never developed. Plus the biggest advantage is the known purity. This is extremely important because it allows you to accurately and much much more safely estimate dosages. A vendor is currently offering 10 mg for 35 dollars which is kinda steep cause theyre the ones people can shoot easily, but a single one would provide you with plenty for a full experience (probably 2-3 actually). Dont take it orally though, because bio-availability is only 10%.

Be safe and good luck!
- microRiboNucleicACID
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: foldingpaper on November 24, 2011, 09:16 pm
Have you considered suppository administration? The logistics might be a little more complex, but it is safer than nasal insufflation (which causes damage to the nasal septum) or smoking (which damages the lungs and can create toxic byproducts), while promoting a comparable rapid onset. Oral would be the safest, but should lead to a less intense (albeit longer) experience.

I have no history of heroin use but suppository would be my preferred ROA, unless purity can be verified. You may want to look into purifying methods, although additives are mostly harmless.
I can't say much on dosage, so I will refer you to the Erowid FAQ: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_faq.shtml#10

Overall, heroin is quite safe on the body. What you should be concerned with is addiction potential. Remember, for many addicts, it also started as a "one time thing". Be safe.
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: Leech on November 30, 2011, 03:26 am
From my research, smoking is the preferred and most controllable. You can count the number of hits and the visible  thickness of the smoke. You can hold the smoke for how long you wish in your lungs. Although lung disease is possible from long term use too.

Long term snorting MAY cause a permanent hole in your sinus membrane, please think thrice before trying.

If you IV impure H, you are gonna clot up your vessels which lead to your heart, giving rise to possible major health complications. Also, there are pathogens flying all over the air, even if your needle is sterile, there is no guarantee a minuscule bacteria or pathogen will enter the raw site coincidentally.

Some people also talk about plugging, and swear by it being the best. Well no harm trying but that's not my lil bro's cup of tea.
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: oppyate on December 05, 2011, 01:03 am
I've been a Rabid Opiate Lover since I was in my teens after my first knee surgery. I'm on regular pain meds and would say I have a high tolerance. My Dr. recently limited the amount of total Oxycodone I can get now and I thought SR would be a good place to fill the gaps. Problem is Oxycodone here averages 2-4 bucks a milligram and hydromorphone/oxymorphone 5-6 bucks a milligram.
I'm finding that Heroin is an average of 5 Bucks a milligram when purchased by the Gram. A person here on SR purchased from nucleo and mentioned the stuff as best he's ever had. Here's my question. Conversion Tables do not have Heroin as a Conversion as an option. Does anyone know fairly well, as an example to make it easy, 10 milligrams of Oxycodone Equal X milligrams of H with 70+ purity?
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: nimbus on December 05, 2011, 01:21 am
I had access for about a year to a solid supply of prescribed Oxy, Roxi, 10mg Vics, and man, that shit was good. Even the shitty uncrushable OPs were great because I could cut them into 8 little pieces to spread it out. When I knew my supply was going to be coming to an end I managed to taper down gradually enough that I luckily had no problem quitting. But I know if I started buying H or other opiates on SR I'd be fucked. I can't imagine myself shooting up either but I think that's probably what everyone thinks at first, until they realize they can get a much better high if they just try it once.... so I will stick to some occasional coke and various psychedelics thank you very much. :P
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: microRNA on December 05, 2011, 05:35 am
Smoking is not a safer method of ingestion than snorting in my opinion... for one, the delivery rate of the drug to the BBB is matched only by IV administration. The damage to the nasal membranes will be paralleled or exceeded by the stress on the lungs. Also, certain byproducts of cut heroin, especially powder, being smoked has been known to produce a devastating condition destroying the nervous system known as toxic leukoencephalopathy. The axonal damage leads to cognitive decline, personality changes, and eventually death. The exact mechanism or toxic components of the smoke have not been elucidated.


Oppyate, below stolen from: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=268657&highlight=diamorphine

"Oxycodone:
IM: 15 mg
oral: 30 mg
...
Diamorphine:
IM: 5 mg
oral: 60 mg"

[Ref.: Foley KM: The Treatment of cancer pain. NEJM 1985; 313 (2): 84-95.]


All the conversion charts I could find refer to subcutaneous diamorphine (H), but if you are interested:
http://wardwiki.com/w/Strong_Opioid_Conversion_Guide

and an equivalency chart as a Word doc viewed on google:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:j1N94LcQZsAJ:palliativedrugs.com/download/081230_Opioid%2520_Conversion_Chart_08.pdf+diamorphine+conversion&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjpZPTPFZzmVYSu3yJy0-5ebPqmXZr7mtjf67rSfWsd9HCVQ0IZ3sC_YOoaFolRC60PswOMRUBSCL8lXiC2VAMk6WX_etuwODCiRkAxURAL8i2CMbvenp2r7qJ1w1q_jarhiGAf&sig=AHIEtbRUz7jHDrqTgRUgVlOjOQ5cPT75iA

Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: E=daveC² on December 05, 2011, 03:58 pm
It's about twice as strong as morphine. 200mg morphine can kill you so 100mg of dope can kill you without a tolerance orally. Problem with street stuff is you never know the purity.
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: oppyate on December 05, 2011, 09:45 pm
Thnx Micro. So just to clarify, basing it on  Morphine, 1mg of Morphine is 50% of Heroin?  What threw me of was your posting?
"
Oxycodone:  15 mg IM makes sense compared to Oral
IM: 15 mg
oral: 30 mg
...
Diamorphine: 5mg IM would be equal to 2.5 Heroin, but 60 mgs ingested of H seems rather high?
IM: 5 mg
oral: 60 mg"

My personal opinion is ingesting H is a waste, but if I didnt IV/IM I would rather snort
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: Addy on December 05, 2011, 11:08 pm
I actually prefer sniffing it. I'll shoot maybe once a month, but most of the time I'll have to drive later in the day, or be around people, and I can't really function if I'm blasted after shooting it.

As others have said, be careful. Remember you have tomorrow to live for, so don't take too much at once, and I'd recommend only buying from SR if you do choose to try it, as it's less likely you'll get addicted when you can only obtain it every so often.
Title: Re: Heroin R.O.A
Post by: microRNA on December 06, 2011, 11:30 am
Sorry for copying and pasting that post without explaining, I think what that is saying is that Heroin is approx half as potent as oxycodone when taken orally, likely due to its ridiculously terrible BA, so a 60 mg dose of H would be equivalent to a 30 mg dose of oxy. However, by IM, H would be three times as potent as oxy, so a 5 mg dose of heroin would be equal to 15 mg of oxycodone. According to that wardwiki site I posted earlier, a 30 mg oxycodone oral dose would equal 60 mg morphine orally. Then, converting that to H, it should be equivalent to 20-30 mg of diamorphine subcutaneously. The purity definitely complicates things immensely however... Also, I am not sure how the ROA and bio-availability really effects these dosing conversions.

I also found another equivalency chart (below) for if you are IVing, that states 10 mg morphine is equivalent to 5 mg diamorphine, which would be equivalent to 10 mg oxy. The oral doses it states have H and oxy equivalent however. So who really freaking knows...

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:sH0J7GALZrMJ:www.uofapain.med.ualberta.ca/For%2520Professionals/Opioid%2520conversion/Opioid%2520conversion_PDF.pdf+IV+morphine+to+diamorphine+conversion&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShfFutdoeHRqsGOofz69oOMtnhaOhnWok689eA3PAyGL1KQ_h7DPbm34gIokkZERL7ivRt5IP-8oq7ZxCIISJmjwCmVAjb7C35JhnAwi6sNiIl2GiJ5jNy3_0YCXuaeOvsEgms_&sig=AHIEtbSpK4BBaLqXKW9J8_yM83e5UuKm4A