Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: munkies on March 30, 2013, 02:03 pm

Title: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: munkies on March 30, 2013, 02:03 pm
Ok so I've been thinking. It's obviously extremely dumb and unsafe to send/receive bulk orders through the regular mail. There are all kinds of illegal services on the onionweb, so why not a delivery service.
So here's my idea of how bulk delivery could be done safely:
an onion service similar to SR could be set up for transporters. A transporter would be an independent person or group whose sole task is to deliver the drugs from the vendor to the buyer. The sistem would work this way:
1. Buyer makes a large purchase, say 1 kg of cocaine. The buyer will not give his real address, but a requested drop off point, where he will pick up the drugs.
2. The vendor would work with a trusted transporter on the order, giving him a pickup up point. The transporter could set his price either as a percentage of the value or the distance traveled.
3. The transporter pays a bond to an escrow service for the value of the drugs to make sure he won't run off with the drugs.
4. The transporter picks up the drugs at the designated pick up point and receives the drop off point.
5. Buyer finalizes the order, the vendor receives the money, the bond is returned to the transporter and he receives his pay. Everyone is happy.
There will be no incentive for the transporter to run away with the drugs or kill the buyer, since the buyer will not have any cash on him. To ensure he will get paid and get his bond back, he will also need to leave the drop off before the buyer arrives.
I know it's not a perfect method, but I still think it's better than the postal system. The postal system is great for sending small amounts, but it's very risky, especially in some countries, for a large order.
What do you think?
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: kmfkewm on March 30, 2013, 02:19 pm
I like the idea of GPS assisted dead drops for moving bulk, or for doing local deliveries of small amounts in a small area. Mail is still pretty safe though, I might actually trust the mail to move a kilo of coke more than I trust some random fuck on a .onion site. In any case the buyer should not give the drop off point or else they could be LE and bust the delivery person, delivery person should pick the drop off point in an area close to where the buyer suggests (by close I mean within sixty miles or so). Biggest risk is that mostly LE will sign up for the long distance transporting service, to bust customers, who are all going to be bulk dealers. For localized dead drops, where vendors deliver inside a local region (probably big cities would be best), I think the idea is pretty solid though. It avoids the need for mail transportation which drops seizure risk substantially, keeps anonymity for the vendor (really it increases it as they can drop product off literally at countless locations) and increases anonymity some for the customer (picking up from a random location the vendor picks is probably even a bit safer than using a fake ID box).
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: munkies on March 30, 2013, 02:37 pm
As I said, the safety of the mail service depends on the country. In Romania, it's safe to send lsd tabs in envelopes, but larger packages don't get delivered to your house. You will receive a notice to come to the post office to pick up your package. You are required to show your ID and obtaining a fake one is not as trivial as it is in the US. From June 1st they will even issue biometric IDs which will be even harder to fake than current ones. You are also REQUIRED to sign for the package. My girlfriend worked as an intern at a post office and she told me postal inspectors WILL open international packages at random, sometimes even letters, using specialized devices for opening and resealing them. With all of this, it's hard not to be paranoid with the postal system. I agree it's not completely safe to hire a "random fuck" to deliver your drugs, but aren't we already buying drugs and giving our addresses and names to "random fucks" on SR already? And it seems to be working pretty well, the only weak link often being the postal service.
The transporters would also be subject to reviews and ratings similar to vendors to make sure they are not LE.
Also, there will be little incentive for LE to pose as transporters, as they will have to pay the bond, which obviously they will never see again, which in essence means they will be paying for the drugs.
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: kmfkewm on March 30, 2013, 03:13 pm
I suppose you have a point that we are already giving our names and addresses to random fucks anyway. The question comes down to, will it be more likely for customs to intercept the package if it is sent via traditional mail, or will it be more likely that all of the people who sign up for the transporter service are undercover LE. I wouldn't be surprised if they are willing to take a decent monetary loss in order to catch someone who they suspect regularly orders kilograms of cocaine. Plus they will of course wait for the buyer to pick up and ID them , and confirm that the order went great, before they bust the buyer. They will already have covert surveillance of them and enough evidence to bust them, so waiting a few days or however long to get their escrow money back and a positive review will not be such a big deal. All I mean by I would trust the mail more than some random fuck is that I am not sure the delivery service wont quickly turn into a giant LE honeypot for busting bulk customers, although you do make a very good point that people ordering bulk here or anywhere else anonymous are already trusting one random fuck to not be LE.
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: kmfkewm on March 30, 2013, 03:16 pm
It is also worth noting that someone who orders kilo of cocaine probably has a lot of money that the feds can seize once they bust him, so even if they do not get the escrow money back, they will likely more than be able to cover the loss.
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: munkies on March 30, 2013, 03:48 pm
Well the transporter could receive a pre-drop off point, which is, say 10 minutes away from the actual drop off point. When he confirms that he reached the pre-drop off point, he will receive the coordinates of the final drop off point which he will have to reach within 15 minutes. The buyer will already be positioned at a safe distance where he can observe the drop off point. If he sees anything fishy going on, he can just get the fuck out of there. It's also impossible for LE to set up surveillance with such short notice, maybe only if they use aerial drones, but let's get serious. In the end it just depends on the country. if we talk about the US, where they need a warrant to open a package and LE would have the resources and will to go for such a sting, this service would probably not be very popular. If we talk about Europe and Russia, where they can open your package just to see what's inside a service like this should be pretty useful.
No one can tell if it would work, but I definitely see something like this coming in the near future when SR will get really big and attract quite a lot of unwanted attention.  I honestly think, that there are countries, including my own, where regular LEOs haven't even heard yet of SR. In Romania, as I think is the case in most of the world, snitches are still the godsends for LE. I honestly don't imagine LEOs, browsing SR and the boards all day looking for clues, contemplating new methods or whatever to fuck us. Why focus on something so complicated when they can bust 50,000 pills in one day based on the info given by a snitch.
And to top it all off, this is the "security" of my country's postal service:
[cearnet link] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjr6ztAkAQE
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: kmfkewm on March 30, 2013, 04:28 pm
LE use aerial drones for surveillance all the time. Remote controlled mini helicopters that can carry high quality video cameras are actually relatively inexpensive, you can buy really nice ones for only a few thousand dollars and most major police forces have several.

If the buyer tells the transporter the drop off location, the transporter will be arrested by law enforcement posing as customer. That breaks anonymity for the transporter and is impossible to do securely. The only way it would have any chance of working is if the drop is made before the customer knows the exact location of the drop.

I think that there is future for dead drop transportation as well, but I think it will be for local regions and not using networks of anonymous transporters. I suppose it is possible that it could use anonymous transporters as well, but I think at least it will start with vendors in major cities doing dead drops around their own city for more localized customer bases. For long distance transportation of bulk I still think that mail is likely a better choice, same for small amounts as well although for a totally different reason.
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: AllDayLong on March 31, 2013, 12:54 am
I think at least it will start with vendors in major cities doing dead drops around their own city for more localized customer bases.

Now that I can see. You just better trust your vendor. But from the vendors view point it sounds pretty safe if you're smart.
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: kmfkewm on March 31, 2013, 01:17 pm
it is probably safer for the customer than getting via mail anyway, as when getting via mail the customer often gives the vendor their home address and identity. In this case, they get GPS coordinates from the vendor, and can pick up the package after waiting some period of time. It is probably even safer than using a fake ID box, because the drop area will likely be well away from any cameras.
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: White 0ut on March 31, 2013, 01:34 pm
Ok so I've been thinking. It's obviously extremely dumb and unsafe to send/receive bulk orders through the regular mail. There are all kinds of illegal services on the onionweb, so why not a delivery service.
So here's my idea of how bulk delivery could be done safely:
an onion service similar to SR could be set up for transporters. A transporter would be an independent person or group whose sole task is to deliver the drugs from the vendor to the buyer. The sistem would work this way:
1. Buyer makes a large purchase, say 1 kg of cocaine. The buyer will not give his real address, but a requested drop off point, where he will pick up the drugs.
2. The vendor would work with a trusted transporter on the order, giving him a pickup up point. The transporter could set his price either as a percentage of the value or the distance traveled.
3. The transporter pays a bond to an escrow service for the value of the drugs to make sure he won't run off with the drugs.
4. The transporter picks up the drugs at the designated pick up point and receives the drop off point.
5. Buyer finalizes the order, the vendor receives the money, the bond is returned to the transporter and he receives his pay. Everyone is happy.
There will be no incentive for the transporter to run away with the drugs or kill the buyer, since the buyer will not have any cash on him. To ensure he will get paid and get his bond back, he will also need to leave the drop off before the buyer arrives.
I know it's not a perfect method, but I still think it's better than the postal system. The postal system is great for sending small amounts, but it's very risky, especially in some countries, for a large order.
What do you think?

It would be badass to offer this service on SR domestically  in the US.... I would drive all across this bitch for some serious bread...

Buyer makes a purchase from a seller, gives details about meetup, then I come in, independent driver come get the product and then get on the road.... Your best bet would be to rent a Uhaul truck or ride a greyhound with a  backpack... Like build up a reputation, and stay with one main US vendor to start so you can just hit the most ordered from areas with bulk...

I think I might make a thread and gauge the interest from vendors and buyers for this.

The escrow idea is sick for sure... but how do you know they won't rob you at gunpoint and make you finalize? I mean I would bring a gun personally because it would be within my right, according to what state I'm in.
Title: Re: Idea for a new delivery method for bulk orders
Post by: schmuckboy on March 31, 2013, 07:10 pm
As long as it's packed stealthy enough, I honestly think the mail is the best way to transport drugs, even huge amounts.