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Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: joywind on June 28, 2013, 07:42 am

Title: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: joywind on June 28, 2013, 07:42 am
Almost all rap is firmly seated in postmodern politics and society - gangsta life, bad whitey, bad authorities, pop culture hedonism, all very immediate and obvious but subjective conditions tending toward an overall crowd revolt mentality.

Most heavy metal does not fixate on a particular era, often pulling the listener into a visionary's fantastic or horrid time and place that never existed, which some would call temporal transcendence. This is much more frontal lobe metaphor than what rap has to offer. However, a lot of metal is fixated on the particulars of our temporary postmodern socio-political situation and its predictable crowd revolt.

Rap - narrow view, limited in scope ([corporate marketed]thug life, my dick, my bitches), low brow, frequently immediate and self-serving

Heavy Metal - broad view, open ended (the cosmos, spiritual war, apocalypse), high or low brow, frequent temporal transcendence and higher purpose
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: bodnostrokulum on June 28, 2013, 08:11 am
Good music is good music  ;) Its a nonsense to be divided by genres  :)
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: joywind on June 28, 2013, 08:20 am
But rap hardly qualifies as music.

Rap has little if any melody, "metal" does. 'Metal' employs a lot of melody, not only in the basic vocal part, but it makes much use of other melodic elements throughout a song, in the form of interesting and original "riffs" or "hooks" which often make up the underlying structure of the song. One of the whole challenges of writing music for a metal composer is to come up with an original melody, original riffs, and original hooks. "Rap" shouters don't bother with these central aspects of music. The musical creativity it takes to dream up one interesting metal "riff" is more musical creativity than is contained in an entire "rap" album.

Rap has little musical structure at all. "Metal" has much chordal and melodic structure. You can't even call rap "musical composition."

In "metal" the singers actually sing, that is, they sustain a note and follow a composed melody. In rap, the rappers just shout, nothing more.

Metal involves a lot of technical instrumental prowess, especially on the heavily featured electric guitar. One of it's chief features is usually the technical skill of a "wizard" guitarist. Rap doesn't even enter this territory. It is the most moronic, simplistic music out there, and whatever instrumentation there is is unnoticeable and unfeatured, because there is nothing to feature.

"Metal" also makes the full use of the drum kit and the rhythmic elements are much more complex and interesting. There is also, obviously, much more use of cymbals because there is so much more musical drama involved. There has probably never been a "metal" recording that employed a fake drum, i.e., a digital drum machine. It involves real drumming, by a real drummer. Often the drummer is highly skilled. And he's almost always White.

"Rap" on the other hand, generally is laid over the most simplistic beat, often on a 75 dollar digital "drum machine," and usually a basic 4/4 beat that a 10-year-old could have programmed in 10 minutes without using the manual. Then they usually employ a heavy and oppressive "subwoofer" setting for the digital/fake "bass drum."

'Metal' is a modern youthful offshoot of the White European musical heritage. That's why it's actually music, even though it is too loud, and I could make a lot of other complaints about it. It's also too harsh and agressive.

But rap is offensive, not musical, to my ears. It's not in the same category. It is thugs shouting over a digital drum beat. It's less than worthless.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: Ron Swanson on June 28, 2013, 08:34 am
hmm drum machines, electronically produced wankery and a mic. nah learn to play a fucking instrument if you want to make music. metal's not my cuppa but i appreciate the skill, there are some awesome musicians playing stuff i don't like.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: 808 Distance on June 28, 2013, 09:41 am
I don't think you can really compare the two. Hip hop and Heavy metal are quite different, I respect and enjoy them both equally.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: gtgeorgz on June 28, 2013, 10:35 am
Drum & bass and house music (not the whole 'EDM scene' type house bullshit though) 8)
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: Ballzinator on June 28, 2013, 02:21 pm
Metal all the way! \m/ 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ks7eLs8rjM

Also Dubstep, DnB and Future Garage :D
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: hemolyzer on June 28, 2013, 11:04 pm
You didn't even post this to have an actual discussion, you just want to wank off to how much you love metal, shut the fuck up kid.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: nitpi950 on June 28, 2013, 11:18 pm
you ignant
http://grooveshark.com/s/Get+Got/4vQKPV?src=5
http://grooveshark.com/s/The+Full+Retard/4wf228?src=5
http://grooveshark.com/s/You+Can+Sell+Anything/3C67CQ?src=5
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: AnonymousAddict on June 28, 2013, 11:20 pm
I dont see how you can even put one against the other. They are 2 totally different types of music. I like both. If its good then its good no matter what Genre its labeled.

I really dont like much of the new rap, Almost all of it sounds the same. Im a Old school BONE THUGS N HARMONY FAN!! But as far as rock an metal Old school Metallica is good also! Nicklebak even had decent music but they r far from metal.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: oldtoby on June 29, 2013, 02:36 am
But rap hardly qualifies as music.

Says the person who asked the question? WTF?

hemolyzer has this.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: tedrux on June 29, 2013, 05:17 am
Dear joy wind,
dude , not all rap is gangsta rap. I think that not all rap is even necesarily angry. rap is poetry to music and it is used in a wide variety of ways. I like rap but dont like gangsta rap. obviously 'Em' ' is probably accrited by ignaramouses as the first white rapper and argue that his subject matter is largely the same with a bit more psychopath thrown in. ICP also is a white rap group and though some of their material is gangsta a lot of it is horror core just like some metal is horror core. actually some of their more recent stuff is rap mettal which I liked a lot. then theres also nerd core and what I wanna coin as freedom core. freedom core is like politcal comentary /human condition comentary such as flobots. nerdcore includes dave from boyinaband.com , mc chris, sir frontalot. theres a really great song by nonelikejoshua I think you should look at his material. and MC chris has a kids rap album actually , beleive it or not.  maybe your hitting on rap hate or maybe your hitting on 'why hasn't this been diversified' . if its the former I remind you an itteration of a style does not determine the way a style must be but only the way a style can be. if its the latter I agree but think its more diverse then your aware of .
final answer: rap metal
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: TreadLight on June 29, 2013, 06:31 am
I love them both, especially when they get creative and mix them together.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: frankmacca on June 29, 2013, 06:45 am
And what about De La and the Tribe? conscious hip-hop? I love it all if I DIG IT. Afro-beat, hip hop, rock, dnb, reggae, metal, jazz

there's always one Idris Muhammed (sp) to one Kenny G in any genre of music.. Genres themselves a a defintion are IMO limiting and passe..



OP: are you trolling or is your understanding/appreciation for music so limited that you index one of our most amazing achievements as a species as a genre showdown?

   
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: sleeptight on June 29, 2013, 07:05 am
I like both of them. They even fit together, take a look at Limp Bizkit or KoRn :)
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 29, 2013, 07:09 am
To get better insight on what rap is I suggest reading W.E.B.  Dubois outstanding book, "The Souls of Black Folk"  He speaks of negro spirituals sung by slaves that carried and uplifted African Americans during their oppression in America.

I got understanding that rap today is still basically those same negro spirituals sung back in the day of slavery.  Rap in all its forms is raw and it tells the truth of the suffering that still goes on in African American life today!

Stop the hate!
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: tedrux on July 05, 2013, 10:58 am
Rap in all its forms is raw and it tells the truth of the suffering that still goes on in African American life today!

thats racist, rap isn't connected to afro descended peoples any more or less then of asians. If it's rap, it's rap and genetics aren't a huge factor.
some rap isn't about suffering (mc chris "wiid" is not) so that is not definitive of the genre either. as far as rap being raw I'd say that jazz and rap are at opposite ends as jazz is random and from the soul whereas rap is typically (though not always) highly produced with a computer adding multiple layers of highly designed interplay.  I'd say maybe this was meant to be taken as fecesious in order to point out how rediculous the question seems to him?  I know that this could be construed as "black vs white" and say that "rap is nigger music and heavy metal, evolved into the most popular whitey music from rock and roll, is (if you'll allow me to coin a term) killbilly music. "  shrug. the classification of a piece of art is subjective (to the point that a particular perspective may lable it not even subjective! :p ) meaning that who see's it is in charge of what it means to them more then the one who expresses it. this ultimately means that defining rap as 'nigger music' is not wrong as thats exactly what it is to some perspectives BUT it isn't all that it is to every perspective and thus it being 'nigger music' isn't necessary for it being rap. :p
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: Hearts on July 05, 2013, 12:54 pm
Bitch I like Rap, some Metal (rarely listen to any nowadays), EDM, House,Dubstep,Trance,Trap,
Jazz, Rock, Classics, especially Pink Floyd, I've even enjoyed KPOP back then in 2008 or 09 with Big Bang and the other groups, before all the
gay, cross-dressing, massive boy groups started showing up.
>Inb4 Shitstorm

There is no "bad music", its all subjective.. Some music... like one artist i forgot who it was, sounded a little like Akon or it was him, and some other nigger that a taxi I was in was playing really got to me, that shit was so god damn slow, repetitive and boring as fuck imo, I just couldn't listen to anymore before my ears would start bleeding. I cant stand some of that shit, but for some people, they love it!

I like a variety of music but I just can't stick to one genre all the time, it gets to me. And I should take back that there is no "bad music", because there are some really shit bands actually.. Then again there surely is some kid around the corner who likes em..

This thread to me was made only to gloat that OP likes Metal and is superior from Rap, which isn't true because it's different for everybody and some people listen to music like Rap which talk about money, drugs, alcohol, bitches, because they find it funny and its catchy, they don't always want to listen to some deep, meaningful, reflective song all the time, mood is a huge factor.

When I want to mellow out there's some Pink Floyd, Some Norwegian bands (i'm not Norwegian but i like international music) like Karpe Diem that I unwind to, even Thai songs god dammit.

Listen to what you love, fuck those who think otherwise.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: SealTeam6 on July 05, 2013, 01:10 pm
Rap in all its forms is raw and it tells the truth of the suffering that still goes on in African American life today!

thats racist, rap isn't connected to afro descended peoples any more or less then of asians.


How in God's name is that racist?
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: SealTeam6 on July 05, 2013, 01:11 pm
Rap in all its forms is raw and it tells the truth of the suffering that still goes on in African American life today!

thats racist, rap isn't connected to afro descended peoples any more or less then of asians.


How in God's name is that racist?

And who is it descended from?
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: MC Haberdasher on July 05, 2013, 04:15 pm
Oh yeah??

We my favorite music is the sound of freebase cocaine crackling away while I torch a fat rock.




Hell yeah!
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: Croskin on July 05, 2013, 04:18 pm
For sound, I would say rap.  Even though i'm not a fan of rap, I can't bare most heavy metal.  If judging by lyrics/though/competence levels, I'd go with heavy metal even though there are a handful of people who make thoughtful rap.  I like a small portion of both. 
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: Authbyma on July 05, 2013, 06:20 pm
Honestly, it boils down to whether you enjoy vocal talent or musical talent more for entertainment. Rap emphasizes the vocal aspect, metal emphasizes the musical. They both (usually) have both elements, but the main focus is only put toward one or the other.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: SealTeam6 on July 05, 2013, 06:56 pm
If you are talking shit about any form of music, then you don't know anything about music!
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: Railgun on July 05, 2013, 07:01 pm
Almost all rap is firmly seated in postmodern politics and society - gangsta life, bad whitey, bad authorities, pop culture hedonism, all very immediate and obvious but subjective conditions tending toward an overall crowd revolt mentality.

Most heavy metal does not fixate on a particular era, often pulling the listener into a visionary's fantastic or horrid time and place that never existed, which some would call temporal transcendence. This is much more frontal lobe metaphor than what rap has to offer. However, a lot of metal is fixated on the particulars of our temporary postmodern socio-political situation and its predictable crowd revolt.

Rap - narrow view, limited in scope ([corporate marketed]thug life, my dick, my bitches), low brow, frequently immediate and self-serving

Heavy Metal - broad view, open ended (the cosmos, spiritual war, apocalypse), high or low brow, frequent temporal transcendence and higher purpose

  This is the second post by which you pose a seemingly open-ended question only to try to frame and inject your idea of the "correct answer" so deep into the text that it might as well just be your opinion.

 You are quite obviously listening to mainstream rap, in which you will find the degradation into what you would now call superficial and almost immaterial.  However, even within mainstream, there are those that do rap on a variety of topics.

Lastly, heavy metal, by stereotype, if I do what you did here, is not much more than a cacophony of dissonant chords and drug usage. 

I'm not a fan of either genre, but you've stereotyped both--one ideally, one maligned--so hard that you aren't even open to hearing much else, most likely.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: joywind on July 05, 2013, 08:38 pm
[quote author=Railgun link=topic=178180.msg1308209#msg1308209 date=1373050897  This is the second post by which you pose a seemingly open-ended question only to try to frame and inject your idea of the "correct answer"[/quote]
I provided my answer to the question. Feel free to provide your answer to the question. Just make it a good answer supported by reason and argument, like mine was.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: fatslimback on July 05, 2013, 09:31 pm
Public Enemy and Anthrax!

Yaaaas!
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: helll on July 06, 2013, 12:01 am
This is the second post by which you pose a seemingly open-ended question only to try to frame and inject your idea of the "correct answer" so deep into the text that it might as well just be your opinion.

Yep. 

As someone who has been listening to metal for a long time, and observing it's culture, I know exactly the crowd that joywind is coming from.  The pseudo-intellectual rhetoric he uses to condemn rap and glorify metal is very reminiscent of certain forums and websites.


There has probably never been a "metal" recording that employed a fake drum, i.e., a digital drum machine

LOL.  Apparently you don't know much about metal either.  Lots of black metal bands have used drum machines, and grind too if you want to count that as metal.

Rap, just like metal, can be found at any level of complexity (not that I'm accepting this as a criterion for good music).  Rap beats tend to be more layered than metal riffs, with different layers fading in and out over the course of a song.  Rap beats tend to be produced electronically, which to do well is no more or less difficult than learning to play an instrument well.

'Metal' is a modern youthful offshoot of the White European musical heritage. That's why it's actually music, even though it is too loud, and I could make a lot of other complaints about it. It's also too harsh and agressive.

You fucking pussy, metal is supposed to be harsh and aggressive.  And I guess you're not aware of the massive influence that Mexican and South American bands have had on the development of heavy metal?  Sepultura, Vulcano, Sarcofago, Mortem, Mortuary, etc... lot's of non-European heritage there.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: ytabletrash on July 06, 2013, 12:57 am
death to all butt metal
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: tedrux on July 07, 2013, 04:24 am
but I like Butt Metal
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: nitpi950 on July 07, 2013, 04:41 am
but I like Butt Metal
cock rock for me thanks
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: joywind on July 07, 2013, 04:50 am
The pseudo-intellectual rhetoric he uses to condemn rap and glorify metal is very reminiscent of certain forums and websites.
What the hell are you talking?

I don't glorify metal. I don't even like heavy metal.

I don't like rap either.

As an outsider to rap and heavy metal, I think I have a rather more objective perspective on things than someone who is a fan of either genre.

Heavy metal at least has some merits.

Rap is pure garbage.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: helll on July 08, 2013, 05:48 am
The pseudo-intellectual rhetoric he uses to condemn rap and glorify metal is very reminiscent of certain forums and websites.
As an outsider to rap and heavy metal, I think I have a rather more objective perspective on things than someone who is a fan of either genre.

So you know nothing about either, and therefore that gives you perspective?
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: joywind on July 08, 2013, 06:57 am
So you know nothing about either, and therefore that gives you perspective?
I am not a FAN of rap or heavy metal. That doesn't mean I "know nothing" about rap or heavy metal (I've listened to quite a bit of both), nor does it mean I categorically dislike either genre. It just means I have no prejudices or biases on this subject.

Prepare to receive negative karma on a daily basis. I'll get some of my friends to give you negative karma as well. I have no tolerance for trolls.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: soviet on July 08, 2013, 09:35 am

Rap - narrow view, limited in scope ([corporate marketed]thug life, my dick, my bitches), low brow, frequently immediate and self-serving



You've made it abundantly clear that you know absolutely nothing about rap. Holy shit I really hope you're trolling. Stop listening to the fucking radio, rap don't live there!

Have you never heard of Eminem? Nas? Lupe Fiasco? J. Cole? Wale? Mos Def? Macklemore? Kid Cudi? Fabolous? The list goes on. Most of the music these rappers produce has a great deal of substance to it.

By the looks of your childish responses it seems like you listened to a single Lil Wayne CD and deemed yourself worthy to judge all of rap music.
 
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: joywind on July 08, 2013, 10:09 am

Have you never heard of Eminem? Nas? Lupe Fiasco? J. Cole? Wale? Mos Def? Macklemore? Kid Cudi? Fabolous?
Yes, I have heard all of their music. All of it is garbage.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: helll on July 08, 2013, 07:17 pm
Prepare to receive negative karma on a daily basis. I'll get some of my friends to give you negative karma as well. I have no tolerance for trolls.

Like I care about fucking forum karma, go for it bitch.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: calicojak on July 08, 2013, 08:19 pm

I really dont like much of the new rap, Almost all of it sounds the same. Im a Old school BONE THUGS N HARMONY FAN!!
Same here. 8)
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: tedrux on July 10, 2013, 12:35 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1TBgcctcco

listen to this and then try to wrap your brain around the idea that not all rap is gangsta rap. I think its a direct contradiction for you to say that all rap is crap then say your not against it catagorically. O.o . and you shouldn't neg karma some one for expressing an opinion particularly one I think most agree with. if you listen to something expecting not to like it and don't dig through it for something fitting to your taste then its like that south park episode where your listening to steamy ray vaughn
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: titsmcgee123 on July 10, 2013, 12:42 am
I have to say I believe both are brutal, but I think that older rap (late 80s-90s) is fantastic. However, if you're asking about the current artists/bands I'd rather eat crow than listen to either - they're both manufactured by the higher-ups that only care about selling an image to people that will buy the shit they spew.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: XXXotica on July 11, 2013, 04:48 pm
Great music is great music.

At the end of the day the most successful and artistic Rap artists collaborate with producers who use and orchestrate live instruments for alot of the music used. In turn, majority of the great artists are essentially poets. Alot of them dont always talk about "thug life". You can actually find enriching and motivating things in alot of the quality music. The problem with rap is that there are more artists on the opposite end of the spectrum that just wake up, smoke weed and talk on a beat that was made in 5 minutes on a laptop; thats not music.

Heavy Metal takes alot more effort if you're speaking about an actual band. That is alot harder to do successfully and entails more work for the artists than rap artists. There skills are instrumental which is hands on and easier for the skill to be noticed due to it behind visual and audible. Rap, more or less, is focused on strictly lyrics so in turn great poets can cause you to visualize and feel the passion conveyed.

Id say at the end of the day that a great rap song to me is as impressive as any genre. The rapid rates in which rap is producing wealth to an entire culture is fascinating as well if you look into the numbers.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: joywind on July 11, 2013, 09:51 pm
Great music is great music.
I agree.

But rap isn't great music.

It isn't even music period.

Rap has little if any melody, "metal" does. 'Metal' employs a lot of melody, not only in the basic vocal part, but it makes much use of other melodic elements throughout a song, in the form of interesting and original "riffs" or "hooks" which often make up the underlying structure of the song. One of the whole challenges of writing music for a metal composer is to come up with an original melody, original riffs, and original hooks. "Rap" shouters don't bother with these central aspects of music. The musical creativity it takes to dream up one interesting metal "riff" is more musical creativity than is contained in an entire "rap" album.

Rap has little musical structure at all. "Metal" has much chordal and melodic structure. You can't even call rap "musical composition."

In "metal" the singers actually sing, that is, they sustain a note and follow a composed melody. In rap, the rappers just shout, nothing more.

Metal involves a lot of technical instrumental prowess, especially on the heavily featured electric guitar. One of it's chief features is usually the technical skill of a "wizard" guitarist. Rap doesn't even enter this territory. It is the most moronic, simplistic music out there, and whatever instrumentation there is is unnoticeable and unfeatured, because there is nothing to feature.

"Metal" also makes the full use of the drum kit and the rhythmic elements are much more complex and interesting. There is also, obviously, much more use of cymbals because there is so much more musical drama involved. There has probably never been a "metal" recording that employed a fake drum, i.e., a digital drum machine. It involves real drumming, by a real drummer. Often the drummer is highly skilled. And he's almost always White.

"Rap" on the other hand, generally is laid over the most simplistic beat, often on a 75 dollar digital "drum machine," and usually a basic 4/4 beat that a 10-year-old could have programmed in 10 minutes without using the manual. Then they usually employ a heavy and oppressive "subwoofer" setting for the digital/fake "bass drum."

'Metal' is a modern youthful offshoot of the White European musical heritage. That's why it's actually music, even though it is too loud, and I could make a lot of other complaints about it. It's also too harsh and agressive.

But rap is offensive, not musical, to my ears. It's not in the same category. It is thugs shouting over a digital drum beat. It's less than worthless.
Title: Re: What is better, Heavy Metal or Rap?
Post by: frankmacca on July 11, 2013, 10:13 pm
"'Metal' is a modern youthful offshoot of the White European musical heritage. That's why it's actually music, even though it is too loud, and I could make a lot of other complaints about it. It's also too harsh and agressive."

And there we have it folks. The reason it's actually music is because it's made by White (his capitalization, not mine) Europeans.

You don't speak for this 'White European'. You are comments are embarrassing son!

Now go masturbate in a corner to Judas Priest or whatever it is that skinheads do in their parent's basements