Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: oldcactushand on May 28, 2013, 12:51 pm
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First, there is no question as to whether this was LSD or not. It definitely was, and it's very good stuff. The person in question has no history of seizures or migraines.
SHORT VERSION: Someone took between 300-400ug, after 2 hours or so geometric patterns began to take over, but they had to walk down a steep hill. They panicked, screamed, and collapsed unconscious. They had a seizure, and when they came back round after 30 minutes or so, they had an intense migraine that lasted for about 6 hours. For the first 1 or 2 hours of that (maybe more), they were vomiting. After the migraine died down, they were exhausted but fine. They were in good spirits the next day.
LONG VERSION
Setting: middle of nowhere. The place we are staying in is the only one nearby. There are 5 people - Myself, Mary, Sarah (names changed) and 2 others. Sarah took 1 hit, everyone else took 3. I don't know how strong the hits were exactly, but I have good reason to believe 3 hits would have been 300-400ug. Everyone has taken acid a few times, but this is the strongest dose anyone has taken. I actually believe Mary to have taken less than 3 hits, maybe 2.5, but I can't confirm this so let's say she took 3.
After dropping we leave the house and begin walking up a nearby hill. In about 2 hours Mary will have a seizure. It might be worth pointing out that this was a difficult walk. I had barely drank any water all day, and it was evening now. I don't know, but I suspect the others were just as dehydrated as me, or maybe a little less. We sat down to rest a few times on the way up, intense physical exercise while coming up really hard on acid is incredibly challenging. Mary is in pretty good shape though, so it was a fair bit easier for her. It was exhausting though, and I mention this in case anyone thinks it could have played a significant role.
We get to the top of the hill. I think I've come up faster than everyone. The next hour or so consisted of me tripping harder than I ever have before. There were points where people would speak to me, I would hear their words but it felt like my brain was already processing so much that I could not dedicate enough energy/time/thought to work out what the words meant in the order delivered. Everything was moving, completely moving. The landscape and the sunset were intensely beautiful. It was hard to sit down and not move, because I felt constantly overwhelmed - I guess because of how much my brain was processing. I was listening to extremely epic and uplifting music loudly on headphones. It was completely overwhelming, like being on a rollercoaster or something. I was having a great time.
Mary and Sarah are playing around with various toys, chatting and laughing and having a nice trip. Mary appears to be getting more fucked and highly excited by how awesome the sunset is and how amazing the setting is in general. After a while I suggest we leave so we can get back before it gets totally dark. We did bring a light, but the hill was steep and it was a long walk, plus it was getting pretty damn cold.
Over time, Mary had begun saying she could barely see anymore. I assumed for most of the time she meant she had visuals like me, but as she said it more, and had trouble picking up the items on the floor in front of her, it became clearer that the geometric patterns must be taking over to some degree. She was not scared of this and was still in the highest of spirits, but she must have been slightly concerned to keep mentioning it. There was a steep downhill walk ahead of us.
As we walk it's clear that her visuals are increasing, "I can't see anything" being said a few times. Sarah is helping her down, and we are not in a massive rush. Still, it's clearly becoming a bit stressful for Mary.
The events that followed are a nightmarish blur to me. We sat down so Mary could gather herself. I think after a little while we agreed to carry on walking, Mary being guided by Sarah. I think we all stood up. But as we did, Mary wasn't happy. In a very scared and stressed voice that she said she believed this could be the start of a bad trip. I also remember the words medical emergency being said/shouted, perhaps straightaway afterwards. She began shouting "NO!", then she put her hand in front of her face as if to stop something coming towards her. She fell to the ground screaming like I've never heard anyone scream before. It must have lasted 2-3 seconds, like in a movie. She had said numerous times before this that it was too much, too much light, too much coming at her - that sort of thing.
The seizure may not have started *straight* after that, but I think it did. It was quite mild (she did not bite her mouth) and lasted probably about 10-20 seconds. She was unconscious and her body was completely limp after this. I believe there was some vomiting when we sat her up (worried she could choke), though she was still unconscious.
The next half an hour consisted of her lying down semi-conscious, occasionally attempting to aggressively move herself forward. It seemed like there were times where she was unstressed and many where she was extremely scared. I was trying to communicate with her, hoping that by making her pay attention to my voice from 'this world', she would more quickly come back to reality. It was getting dark and cold, and we still had some way to walk.
Eventually she came back and began to communicate much better, although she was still quite scared and could not really see. I would estimate the time to be about half an hour, but I was in the midst of my most intense psychedelic experience ever, so I could be wrong. We somehow managed to get her back to the house. For the next few hours she had an intensely painful migraine (I don't know at what point in the experience the migraine started), having to sit in complete darkness. And for the first hour or two there was vomiting. I felt her temple at one point and you could feel the blood rushing.
After hours the migraine had massively declined and she was in high spirits again, reflecting on the revelations she had had while unconscious, which seemed to be of a largely positive nature. She was exhausted the next day but absolutely fine; in better spirits than myself.
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I have looked around on some forums about this and cannot find anything other than speculations. I have not seen any mention of migraines either. Does anybody have any experience with this, or any reliable information?
Does sensory overload explain both the seizure and the migraine? If so, why isn't this much more common in instances of ego death? Perhaps it was the stress of experiencing it in a place where she felt unsafe. She kept asking us if we could see where we were going, I think she may have been afraid of getting lost (which would have been a terrible situation). Even so, does this explain it entirely? Could dehydration also have played a role? Or something else that I have not considered? Is there any evidence that her seizure threshold will be lower now? How worried should she be about all of this? If this was to happen again (to her or anyone else), what should I do in such a situation?
Thanks in advance for the help. At some point I will write up my experience of this all while in the midst of a very intense trip if anyone's interested. It was extremely frightening.
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Could be anything dude, but i would in no way attribute this incident to the L it self.. sounds more to me like a panic attack. In many cases of severe panic/anxiety attacks, the individual will hyperventilate so much that they totally fuck up the flow of oxygen to there extremitys and the brain alike.. hense a head ache and seizure like symptoms, the arms legs hands and feet will all have lo oxygen left in them and will literally seize up uncontrollably.
After a normal breathing pattern returns the body will be back to normal, leaving behind no signs of what had just happened. Its happened to be a few times, scary shit, esp if you dont know what wth is going on. Im glad every is ok..
All the things you describe as having happened, all can be in direct correlation with worked up nerves.. the bodies nervous system can be a muh fucka for real.. the vomiting, head aches, seizure type occurrence, all can be caused by the bodies nervous system, and thats likely what happened there.
I could be wrong about this, but im almost 100% that what ever it was that occured it was not a direct result of the LSD. Much love
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I think you're right. Thank you.
There is some fear that this could have set off something previously dormant within her. An unrelated condition that was set off by the experience. Her heart racing scared her a lot, and she believed she could have heart attack (this was during the migraine, after ego death... she was able to communicate better than myself at that point, but was still in a very bad way).
Having read more about panic attacks since your reply, I see this is common. The fear makes the heart beat faster, but people think that the fear and the increased heart rate are two symptoms of one cause, when in fact they are cyclical.
If anybody is reading this and has similar questions to myself, I found the first post of this thread quite helpful. I have never seen a panic attack and a lot of this sounds very familiar now. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20985
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Yea, there is always the slight possibility that your friend had some hereditary traits dormant with in her, that was brought to the surface by the L.. but i find it highly unlikely.
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Me too. The more I read about panic attacks, the more this seems like one. I don't really think there are any symptoms that are not explained by a panic attack, and the reason for the panic attack is quite clear as well. I'd still appreciate the advice and opinions of others on this though.
I will write up my trip report from the moment it all went wrong onwards at some point. I'm fairly new to LSD, and I guess I had a 'bad trip'. It's very interesting and is getting easier to think about. It's already making small steps to becoming kind of funny. I went from having my most powerful and beautiful LSD experience to date into a genuine nightmare scenario, all against a stunning backdrop of the best dreamlike sunset I have ever seen and a breathtaking landscape, increasingly dark and hostile. But I am slightly nervous that I will begin to think about it when I trip again, and potentially get stuck in such a headspace.
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Its not uncommon to have the experience that you and/or your friend had..
The only true way to combat those episodes when taking larger doses of L than one is used to, is to simply embrace the fear. Channel H. S. Thompson, and ride the wave dude..If you just accept what is happening, even if you think your going to die, take a deep breath, close your eyes, and be ready to die..
You certainly will not die, but in fact, once youve accepted your worse possible fate, after a few min the fear and anxiety will pass, and you will be in heavan..on earth,lol. Best of luck dude.
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Its not uncommon to have the experience that you and/or your friend had..
The only true way to combat those episodes when taking larger doses of L than one is used to, is to simply embrace the fear. Channel H. S. Thompson, and ride the wave dude..If you just accept what is happening, even if you think your going to die, take a deep breath, close your eyes, and be ready to die..
You certainly will not die, but in fact, once youve accepted your worse possible fate, after a few min the fear and anxiety will pass, and you will be in heavan..on earth,lol. Best of luck dude.
YES. Haha, there have been so many trips where I'm freaking out and then im like WWHSTD? (What Would H. S. Thompson Do?) and then I'm mothafuckin flyin spaceships and shit like WHOOAAAAHH and the universe crowns me for accepting my ineptitude.
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LOL sounds about right. Hehe
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I said this in another thread: the fact that LSD or similar psychedelics are physically harmless and nobody really can OD with them it doesn't mean that in all circumstances they can be safe. Every medicine of whatever type becomes a poison after a certain threshold and what that threshold is depends on the individual and the parameters tied to the same. In the case of LSD the "poison" nature has more to do with the psychic side than the physical one, but this doesn't mean that some sort of physical reaction cannot evolve since the two are closely tied together and related one to the other.
Depending on the individual certain thresholds that for some other people are perfectly safe can become a nightmare because they cannot cope with them (but they can naturally learn how to do so, and by will or helped to they can safely do so). If this happens in an intense way, in certain circumstances (some people are more prone to this, usually those that are more tied to their physical bodies for various factors that can be tied to education, nature or whatever), the mind will evidence the fact by using the physical as a focus.
Your friend obviously couldn't cope with the fear at a certain point and given various factors (that can be hereditary or how she is or even how she reacts internally with the fear) her mind externalized the occurrence in a physical way; it is much less uncommon that it seems. I've witnessed in various circumstances people reacting physically under certain stressful psychological behaviors. It can also happen during a dream, for example: to many people it happens that if they have a nightmare they have the traces of what happened in their bodies. (For what it concerns this occurrence in fact consider that migraine are usually tied to the eyes and temples; when the girl couldn't cope with the visionary state she reacted physically in the same way that people that have migraines react to strong visual stimuli).
The mind is the most mysterious thing we humans have and every person reacts in different manners given their education, background and natural traits. So also substances that are indeed safe in themselves given the circumstances and in certain occasions can become dangerous (and in fact for this if you are not accustomed to certain thresholds it's always better to have someone expert near to help you in case).
The best thing your friend can do in this instance is to not let the thing block her (elsewhere the issue will become worse in other similar occasions, having to do with LSD or not) and retake LSD at the first instance (starting at a lower dose until she is comfortable getting there again). If she can do this she will undoubtedly turn this bad occurrence into something she will thank for in the future. If she instead will stop here you can rest assured that this trait that came out in that particular circumstance will become even stronger by time. In fact much probably she has get this trait (or evolved it more) because she has done something similar in the past with something akin to what happened there.
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+1 @ BlackIris, thats spot on... the human brain is capable of more than anything any one person can fathom.
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The only true way to combat those episodes when taking larger doses of L than one is used to, is to simply embrace the fear. Channel H. S. Thompson, and ride the wave dude..If you just accept what is happening, even if you think your going to die, take a deep breath, close your eyes, and be ready to die..
best drug related advice i've read here so far ;D
+1
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Grazi, Back at ya Minchione 8)
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Thanks BlackIris. She does not intend to stop taking LSD, although will probably not do so at the first instance. As I said, I don't think the experience was actually that bad for her considering the way it began, and the pain that she was in. I don't know the details of what she experienced, but I remember her saying she understood the concept of oneness. I think the fear came from not initially realising that she was experiencing ego death, and the location this was happening to her in.
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/\ Yea, makes sense dude.. that first taste of ego loss, well, it feels like your dying..
First time it happend to me, when i came too and was able to slap together a sentence, my first words to my sitter, where " did i just die and come back to life?" LOL
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The only true way to combat those episodes when taking larger doses of L than one is used to, is to simply embrace the fear. Channel H. S. Thompson, and ride the wave dude..If you just accept what is happening, even if you think your going to die, take a deep breath, close your eyes, and be ready to die..
On one of my most beautiful OBE was after a ritual of evocation, when meeting Azazel. I had a conversation with Him about death. It did go something like this:
- Azazel: Why do you think humans are so afraid to die?
- Me: I suppose that for most of them this has to do with the thought of what they have missed in this life and how much, with a second chance, they would like to go back to change this.
- Azazel: And what do you think about this?
- Me: I think it is good that these people acknowledge their errors and are fighting to recover them.
- Azazel: No. It is instead the supreme act of a coward. They have been cowards all of their life, they are so even more in death, the climax of life. Nothing was acknowledged. They aren't fighting the error, just their image of it. They didn't embrace life for cowardice, they haven't changed in death; if they really acknowledged it, they would stop doing what they always did and embrace death with courage. In that moment they would have fulfilled their second chance.
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The only true way to combat those episodes when taking larger doses of L than one is used to, is to simply embrace the fear. Channel H. S. Thompson, and ride the wave dude..If you just accept what is happening, even if you think your going to die, take a deep breath, close your eyes, and be ready to die..
On one of my most beautiful OBE was after a ritual of evocation, when meeting Azazel. I had a conversation with Him about death. It did go something like this:
- Azazel: Why do you think humans are so afraid to die?
- Me: I suppose that for most of them this has to do with the thought of what they have missed in this life and how much, with a second chance, they would like to go back to change this.
- Azazel: And what do you think about this?
- Me: I think it is good that these people acknowledge their errors and are fighting to recover them.
- Azazel: No. It is instead the supreme act of a coward. They have been cowards all of their life, they are so even more in death, the climax of life. Nothing was acknowledged. They aren't fighting the error, just their image of it. They didn't embrace life for cowardice, they haven't changed in death; if they really acknowledged it, they would stop doing what they always did and embrace death with courage. In that moment they would have fulfilled their second chance.
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Some very good advice in here.
I know for some with very little to no experience with tripping it may be very hard but always keep in mind to have no fear. Just accept the trip and embrace it, learn to enjoy that intensity and have fun with it. Something that may help is to always know the substance you just consumed will not kill you or damage you. It is just part of the ride!
Heh, once you learn to do that you will be an official psychonaut!
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I'm glad to hear she is taking the good out of what happened.
My first trip I experienced ego death and I was so damn scared, because I knew nothing about tripping I thought "you see cool shit" and that was it. Holy tits was I wrong hahah
Anyways my first trip was 3.5g of Penis Envy shrooms and took me off this planet. I did end up having a really bad trip, but that bad trip taught me sooo much. I learned so much about myself and about the world. I've learned more from that bad trip that I have learned from all my good trips put together. Some people just aren't mentally stable enough to handle all this new information raping our brains lol.
You always need to look at the good in things, it's always there. It might be hidden a little, but it's always there.
^_^ good vibes
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No such thing as a bad trip, just difficult ones. And it is through those that we LEARN and GROW. To use one of my terms, when you "pop your cherry" with anything, it's the most painful but it's also the most exciting, interesting, impactful, teaching moment you'll have with that thing. Same goes for the tripping experiences. :)
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First, there is no question as to whether this was LSD or not. It definitely was, and it's very good stuff. The person in question has no history of seizures or migraines.
im guessing it was tested?
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i thought this thread was going to be about LSD getting taken by customs (i.e. 'seized')....good responses to the OP tho
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Every medicine of whatever type becomes a poison after a certain threshold and what that threshold is depends on the individual and the parameters tied to the same. In the case of LSD the "poison" nature has more to do with the psychic side than the physical one, but this doesn't mean that some sort of physical reaction cannot evolve since the two are closely tied together and related one to the other.
I feel like this is an excellent point. Just because LSD doesn't physically cause any damage, it's silly to say it can' cause mental damage. As studies have shown, what you *perceive* has happening has a huge effect on what actually happens. Placebo pills are a perfect example.
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I think the person who suffered from seizures should stop taking the chemical.
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it's tough to say. I am experienced and can deal with the discomfort, maybe some fear and nausea....vasoconstriction etc.....but what you described could be bad news. she needs to see a neurologist to make sure she doesnt have annuryisms etc....her reaction to it could suggest underlying causes.......yes, you need to accept the trip, accept death, etc.....but dont ignore warning signs. When I was tripping weekend on mushrooms, some very peculiar shit was happening physically with my cerebral circulation. during the trip I just dealt with it, the circulation and "blank" spots, etc....but after the trips I addressed the issues!
Every medicine of whatever type becomes a poison after a certain threshold and what that threshold is depends on the individual and the parameters tied to the same. In the case of LSD the "poison" nature has more to do with the psychic side than the physical one, but this doesn't mean that some sort of physical reaction cannot evolve since the two are closely tied together and related one to the other.
I feel like this is an excellent point. Just because LSD doesn't physically cause any damage, it's silly to say it can' cause mental damage. As studies have shown, what you *perceive* has happening has a huge effect on what actually happens. Placebo pills are a perfect example.
+1 to both of you, great points :D
I love these discussions.