Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: orangejuice on August 20, 2011, 02:53 pm

Title: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: orangejuice on August 20, 2011, 02:53 pm
After watching the SR scene for some time I've been surprised with the amount of sellers who are only willing to SELL outside of escrow, and buyers who are frequently willing to BUY outside of escrow. We then read how some dear buyer has not received his product and has to rely on the goodwill of the seller, and must hope that they haven't been scammed.

 It's amazing me how many buyers are also willing to put up advance postings of "Putting my trust in the seller before receiving product, 5/5".  It brings tender tears but, really, trusting buyers are increasing risk. One buyers was waiting on an order worth hundreds of dollars only to find that his/her emails were being unanswered. Panic then sets in; it may have well been avoided had he/she bought within escrow.

And this leads me to part two of my rant: if sellers are not willing to work within escrow - screw 'em. Seriously. Boycott them. Some buyers are putting in too much trust and we keep hearing the same bleats of being scammed.  If we as buyers refuse to buy out of escrow, then these recalcitrant sellers will eventually  have to work within the escrow framework, or lose business.

 I know this cuts both ways, and I can already hear the keys from a seller tapping away to counter this; but really, no matter how much a seller says "trust me and I'll give you a 25% discount out of escrow" I personally wouldn't do it, so why the fuck are some buyers playing this game? Greed?  Naivety? Stupidity? Masochism? Adrenaline rush? ...

There are some really great people out there - buyers and sellers - who want to make this SR thing happen, and kudos to them, but to risk hard-earned BTCs - as far as buyers are concerned - is just not worth the discount, nor for the feel good, lovey trusty thing.  It should be within escrow, or nothing.

If sellers don't sell within escrow,  vote with your bitcoins - BOYCOTT.
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: bobmrly on August 20, 2011, 04:29 pm
Eventually, a great amount of people will get burned.

Just like with people using large exchanges, online wallets, not encrypting their wallets etc. Seems like it has to happen first before people learn :)
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: chronicpain on August 20, 2011, 04:49 pm
I did a small test last month. I offered  both options. Within escrow and a release escrow before shipping price.  I gave the customers a choice. I agree, escrow is important and has saved a lot of people heart ache. But on the flip side, there are reverse scamers, especially with opiates. that's why I usually have a limit on quantity within escrow.

In the future, I will always recommend that the buyers go within the escrow system. But, I will always offer them the choice. So its a win/win situation. I would never just have one option (out of escrow) But I have a lot of frequent customers that know me and trust me, so in return for their trust, I will give them a little better deal. Also, I wont I just sell us to us only. If I were to go world wide I would make it a requirement that the out of us sales go outside of escrow, I dont want to be held liable for a  shipment that is seized.

I dont think calling for a boycott is necessary. If a buyer wants to risk it, then its their choice.

I haven't made my mind up if i will continue to even make it an option. If I do, It will be because the buyer asked me to, not that I am making them. I mainly do it to protect me against scammers on bigger orders. I have heard vendors claim that after sending a few hundred dollars worth of expensive pharmaceuticals the buyer claimed it was never received and the vendor had to accept only 50 percent of the value. I cant afford to take that kind of loss.

So, I say let the buyer beware and let them choose. Lets not force anything upon anyone. If we do, we are no better than a government...
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: vanilla on August 20, 2011, 06:09 pm
I don't think it is wrong for some sellers to offer an out of escrow option for larger orders if they are familiar with a seller and have trust established. However, those sellers that come on SR and want to start off doing everything out of escrow really piss me off. Every time I see this, not only will I not buy but I will let it be known in these forums so as to warn everyone.
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: captainjojo on August 20, 2011, 10:23 pm
In the end, it all comes down to trust.  Either you trust the seller you are doing business with or you don't. 

The biggest problem with going out of escrow is knowing where to place your trust.  It would take a lot of good vibes (posts from happy buyers, that sort of thing) before I would be willing to place a first order with any seller out of escrow.  Too many things could go wrong. 

Even if the seller is on the up and up, what happens if the package is honestly lost in the mail or held up in customs, you have no recourse but to hope the seller is a professional, and wants your repeat business enough to work with you on some sort of refund.

I definitely avoid those sellers that don't even bother with SR, those that want to go direct from day one.  With no feedback how the hell are you supposed to get an idea of how professional and trustworthy the seller is.  I shouldn't have to weed through hundreds of posts looking for feedback on the SR Forums about the seller.

I like the way CP did it.  He offered two prices, those who released when the order flipped to 'in transit' and a higher price for those who wanted to keep it in escrow.  That left it up to the buyer to decide if he wanted to take the risk, he was not being forced to give up his BTC before getting anything, he could make the choice, and if he/she felt comfortable enough with the seller, then why not.

In the end it is the buyers choice, nobody is forcing them to buy direct or out of escrow.  Anyone who does that without doing their research has nobody to blame but themselves.  There is enough information floating about on the boards for most buyers to make a reasonably informed decision.  Anybody who releases escrow or goes direct after reading a post about someone not getting their shipment or where the seller refuses to communicate should stick to buying stuff from their friends, at least then they have someone to yell at when they don't get the right product.

I see posts from buyers saying they sent $500 directly to a seller and they haven't heard anything back nor seen a package arrive.  Hell, I would be antsy about giving someone local $500 up front and then waiting to see if he gets back to me (I once gave a good source $3k and for two days waited to hear back - he came through, but I didn't sleep well for  a couple of days - I will say that transaction definitely increased my trust in him).

The best thing is to start small and build on it.  Get a good rapport with your seller and let it grow.  Drop the ones that make your worry and don't communicate. 

Well, that's my .02 BTC worth.  :)

Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: pcgamer02 on August 20, 2011, 10:41 pm
Let the buyer beware...
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: erko78 on August 22, 2011, 07:11 pm
It honestly all depends on the person.  I went out of escrow with coast2coast who at the time had 100% perfect rating with 10+ transactions,  and...I got scammed.  But I've also gone out of escrow almost a week after that with LTTM and that went smooth.  Currently doing out of escrow with Quantum and I have no doubt that too will go smooth.  Just use your head and look for signs of potential scamming.  Example of this would be a seller only selling 1/8 or 1gs,  then having an out of escrow deal on OZs,  anytime you see a big jump in quantity it should set off some kind of alarm.  Good luck to all,  it sucks getting scammed :(,  but fuck it this isn't walmart lol!
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: PervertedPrude on August 22, 2011, 08:04 pm
I really don't think that's necessary. I personally won't purchase outside of escrow--everyone else can do whatever the hell they want to do. :D
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: 18kct on August 22, 2011, 09:21 pm
I just wanted to chime in to say that I only SELL by using escrow! This is a customer service business, and I feel that my customers are best serviced  by using escrow. By the same token, I expect my customers to keep open discussion with me if any problems arise with their orders. Reverse scamming does happen, but those scammers should be identifiable by their lack of communication BEFORE going to the resolution center.
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: captainjojo on August 22, 2011, 10:57 pm
Yes, as mentioned several times in numerous posts, there probably should be some sort of feedback for buyers.

Maybe something available to a seller, but only if that buyer orders from them, then they could call up a feedback list for the buyer.

And the buyer should be able to see a list of feedback he has gotten from the sellers so that if he believes that a seller has improperly shot him down, he could possibly open communication with that seller and try to make it right (maybe the seller could have the option of editing feedback just like buyers do).

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Boycott sellers who refuse to sell inside escrow
Post by: 98080678 on August 26, 2011, 08:13 am
All depends on the seller. I have had success with a somewhat larger order out of escrow - the cost was lower and I was fine with the seller getting the money right away. I only did this because of the fact that the vendor was active in the forums, had a large number of previous transactions and communicated well.