Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: CompSci on January 12, 2013, 03:38 am
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On average, how often must one take roxies before one develops a physical dependence to the drug? For example, could someone get away with doing a 30MG roxy everyday for a week and then immediately stop without getting "sick?"
I ask because I love opiates but I also value my safety. Unfortunately, as an opiate lover who values their safety, I find it really hard to gauge safe use etiquette of the drug. In fact, there seems to be so much disinformation out there regarding the recreational use of opiates. For example, a lot of anti-drug types will tell you that doing heroin once will get you addicted for life yet we all know that's complete and utter bullshit. (Any addict who claims otherwise is just making an excuse for their complete lack of self-control)
So, to the responsible opiate lovers out there: How do you minimize the risk of becoming physically dependent on the drug?
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moderation and self control
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It's a lot harder than you think, I'd stop while you're ahead of yourself if you're that concerned about using consistently, because if you like it then you will..
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Only do it once a month.
maybe less
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If you know some people who have died from heroin/opiates, that could really help you moderate your use. I will never go down the path I have seen a few people go down and get themselves killed because of their addiction. Oxy has been available to me IRL and over SR for the past year, and still I have only used it 5-6 times. Best part is I can get fucked up off a 5mg Oxy. You have to know the power of what you're fucking with. If you don't have self-control, opiates probably aren't for you.
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If you know some people who have died from heroin/opiates, that could really help you moderate your use. I will never go down the path I have seen a few people go down and get themselves killed because of their addiction. Oxy has been available to me IRL and over SR for the past year, and still I have only used it 5-6 times. Best part is I can get fucked up off a 5mg Oxy. You have to know the power of what you're fucking with. If you don't have self-control, opiates probably aren't for you.
Problem is most people DO have self control until they try opiates.
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Problem is most people DO have self control until they try opiates.
Most people THINK they have self-control.
The best way to minimize the risk of addiction is not to do the drug at all.
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tl;dr: A week binge of 30mg of Roxy a day appears to be my absolute limits in order to avoid physical dependence but tolerance becomes an issue after four days. Meanwhile, 3-4 day binges of 30mg of Roxy each month appears to be an ideal sweet spot.
Long version:
I appreciate the responses. There seems to be a lot of people who say "never do it" and; "There is no way to do it safely!" Sadly, this is all misinformation and is exactly what I was trying to avoid. I'm not trying to be a dick but those answers are grossly inaccurate and perhaps even dangerous because it enables addictive behavior. Anyhow, despite popular opinion, opiates don't have some sort of supernatural addiction properties hidden within them. In reality, it is just that addicts of opiates are the most vocal users. Addicts also tend to justify their stupid actions by claiming they are "powerless" against the drug. Meanwhile, those who use opiates responsibly for recreational purposes are rarely ever heard from for obvious reasons.
Anyhow, despite some of the inaccurate answers I appreciate those who tried to give helpful advice. (e.g. taking it once a month or a couple times a month) However, I still feel that the figures mentioned above are far too conservative. I also feel that saying the cliche phrase "use in moderation and have self-control" is a vast oversimplification of the issue, too. The real purpose of my post was to come to some sort of agreement on what the definition of "moderation" and "self-control" is.
Personally, I just did 30MG of Roxy everyday for a week and today is my first sober day. I'm not feeling any physical withdraw symptoms and while I'm most certainly wishing I could do another 30MG tonight I won't -- I don't even have any available even if I wanted to. However, I have the necessary funds to buy more and yet I'm not going to do it because I know that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. In fact, I recently came into an extra couple thousand dollars this month of disposable income and most of it is going towards long-term investments. (e.g. stocks and bonds) Sadly, I will have to say goodnight to my "sweet prince" until next month. (Anyone get the reference? :P)
So to sum things up: if you're a responsible opiate user who enjoys the occasional opiate binge I've successfully found that a week of 30MG Roxy's a day has given me no ill effects so this might be a good limit for monthly usage. (Obviously, results may vary though) The only negative I found was that towards the end of the week 30MG felt a bit weak -- I was clearly building up a tolerance to it. Fortunately, I discovered that I was able to counter this by taking 50-100MG of Diphenhydramine (OTC sleeping pill). I also found that It also helped to take 15MG orally with the sleeping pill and then, once the pills took effect, to insufflate the remaining 15MG.
For over a decade I've actually stuck to 3-4 day binges a month which I've found works extremely well. The great thing about 3-4 day binges is that my tolerance to 30MG of Roxy never really became an issue. This is the biggest positive I can think of to sticking to a 3-4 day binge rather than a week binge each month.
In conclusion I suspect a week binge of 30MG a day is the absolute limits for me. If I were to go longer it became clear that my tolerance was going to require significantly higher doses which I took as a sign a physical dependence to the drug was imminent. As a result I'm now thinking that I should usually stick to 3-4 day binges a month for most of the year and occasionally treat myself to a week binge once to twice a year.
Anyhow, good luck to the fellow responsible opiate users out there.
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tl;dr: A week binge of 30mg of Roxy a day appears to be my absolute limits in order to avoid physical dependence but tolerance becomes an issue after four days. Meanwhile, 3-4 day binges of 30mg of Roxy each month appears to be an ideal sweet spot.
Long version:
I appreciate the responses. There seems to be a lot of people who say "never do it" and; "There is no way to do it safely!" Sadly, this is all misinformation and is exactly what I was trying to avoid. I'm not trying to be a dick but those answers are grossly inaccurate and perhaps even dangerous because it enables addictive behavior. Anyhow, despite popular opinion, opiates don't have some sort of supernatural addiction properties hidden within them. In reality, it is just that addicts of opiates are the most vocal users. Addicts also tend to justify their stupid actions by claiming they are "powerless" against the drug. Meanwhile, those who use opiates responsibly for recreational purposes are rarely ever heard from for obvious reasons.
Anyhow, despite some of the inaccurate answers I appreciate those who tried to give helpful advice. (e.g. taking it once a month or a couple times a month) However, I still feel that the figures mentioned above are far too conservative. I also feel that saying the cliche phrase "use in moderation and have self-control" is a vast oversimplification of the issue, too. The real purpose of my post was to come to some sort of agreement on what the definition of "moderation" and "self-control" is.
Personally, I just did 30MG of Roxy everyday for a week and today is my first sober day. I'm not feeling any physical withdraw symptoms and while I'm most certainly wishing I could do another 30MG tonight I won't -- I don't even have any available even if I wanted to. However, I have the necessary funds to buy more and yet I'm not going to do it because I know that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. In fact, I recently came into an extra couple thousand dollars this month of disposable income and most of it is going towards long-term investments. (e.g. stocks and bonds) Sadly, I will have to say goodnight to my "sweet prince" until next month. (Anyone get the reference? :P)
So to sum things up: if you're a responsible opiate user who enjoys the occasional opiate binge I've successfully found that a week of 30MG Roxy's a day has given me no ill effects so this might be a good limit for monthly usage. (Obviously, results may vary though) The only negative I found was that towards the end of the week 30MG felt a bit weak -- I was clearly building up a tolerance to it. Fortunately, I discovered that I was able to counter this by taking 50-100MG of Diphenhydramine (OTC sleeping pill). I also found that It also helped to take 15MG orally with the sleeping pill and then, once the pills took effect, to insufflate the remaining 15MG.
For over a decade I've actually stuck to 3-4 day binges a month which I've found works extremely well. The great thing about 3-4 day binges is that my tolerance to 30MG of Roxy never really became an issue. This is the biggest positive I can think of to sticking to a 3-4 day binge rather than a week binge each month.
In conclusion I suspect a week binge of 30MG a day is the absolute limits for me. If I were to go longer it became clear that my tolerance was going to require significantly higher doses which I took as a sign a physical dependence to the drug was imminent. As a result I'm now thinking that I should usually stick to 3-4 day binges a month for most of the year and occasionally treat myself to a week binge once to twice a year.
Anyhow, good luck to the fellow responsible opiate users out there.
It's hard to give a concrete answer because everyone's body is different, everyone has different tolerances, everyone has natural tolerances, etc etc. There's a lot of information available on endorphines, your receptors, etc but scientists are still unsure about a lot of things that happen during the addiction process and how opiate receptors function.
When I was 15 years old it took me about 3 weeks of daily Oxycontin use for me to start experiencing withdrawals....nowadays if I stop IVing heroin or using other opiates for awhile and then start using again...it takes me only about 2 to 3 days of using for me to experience withdrawals.
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Compsci you are the one spreading misinformation. How long have you been using? Not long I betl
Of course you feel no withdrawal from a 30mg "binge" because that is a tiny dose. The point is people keep chipping away and up the dose over months/years. It is inevitable if you want to keep getting as high as you used to.
Don't call me a junkie you know nothing about me.
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its not so much about self control, as it is about each individuals will, every one is different. Some people have addictive personalities , some dont. I take any where from one 30mg roxy a day to none, for moths at a time, and ive no mental addiction to them, or any opiate.
Now as far as physical addiction, thats another story, opiates take as little as 2 uses to develop mild forms of physical addiction. You just have learn to tune in with your body, and learn to ease your self off of them by gradually reducing your dose and how often you dose. As you stated if you take 1 30 a day for a week, by the 7th day if you dont dose, you will have almost full blown opiate withdrawal, kicking like a junky. Good luck friend.
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its all about what drug 'does it' for you.
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Compsci you are the one spreading misinformation. How long have you been using? Not long I betl
Of course you feel no withdrawal from a 30mg "binge" because that is a tiny dose. The point is people keep chipping away and up the dose over months/years. It is inevitable if you want to keep getting as high as you used to.
Don't call me a junkie you know nothing about me.
Just so you know I wasn't calling you a junkie or an addict -- I was merely speaking in general terms about how addicts react towards opiates. This, at least according to my own personal opinion, is a result of the NA/AA classes which actively teach that addicts are powerless to the drug. I feel this is a harmful thing to teach. We absolutely have power over any drugs we consume.
Anyhow, keep in mind a 30mg dose isn't necessarily a tiny dose to someone with a low tolerance. In fact, many people are just fine with taking 15mg with a low tolerance. As such, if one hopes to escape physical dependence wouldn't it be wise to always keep ones tolerance low? This is why I'm wondering about a way to effectively keep ones tolerance in check. I've discovered the 3-4 day "binges" each month do this for me and I've been doing it for over a decade. Of course, others make a good point regarding the irregularities of our own bodies. Apparently, physical dependence isn't much of an issue for me after at least a week of 30mg a day use but I suppose others have vastly different experiences with opiates.
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Compsci you are the one spreading misinformation. How long have you been using? Not long I betl
Of course you feel no withdrawal from a 30mg "binge" because that is a tiny dose. The point is people keep chipping away and up the dose over months/years. It is inevitable if you want to keep getting as high as you used to.
Don't call me a junkie you know nothing about me.
Just so you know I wasn't calling you a junkie or an addict -- I was merely speaking in general terms about how addicts react towards opiates. This, at least according to my own personal opinion, is a result of the NA/AA classes which actively teach that addicts are powerless to the drug. I feel this is a harmful thing to teach. We absolutely have power over any drugs we consume.
Anyhow, keep in mind a 30mg dose isn't necessarily a tiny dose to someone with a low tolerance. In fact, many people are just fine with taking 15mg with a low tolerance. As such, if one hopes to escape physical dependence wouldn't it be wise to always keep ones tolerance low? This is why I'm wondering about a way to effectively keep ones tolerance in check. I've discovered the 3-4 day "binges" each month do this for me and I've been doing it for over a decade. Of course, others make a good point regarding the irregularities of our own bodies. Apparently, physical dependence isn't much of an issue for me after at least a week of 30mg a day use but I suppose others have vastly different experiences with opiates.
You clearly know nothing of physical addiction, I hope you never have to!
As for answering OP's question... DON'T START USING THEM... problem solved.
- JWM
I'm genuinely curious as to what you mean by this. I understand that there is a physical dependence towards opiates when they aren't used responsibly but other than that I'm confused by what you're getting at. Are you suggesting abstinence is the ONLY way to avoid becoming addicted to opiates?
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Come on dude, one blue per day for 3-4 days at a time isnt a binge and not nearly enough time to grow physically dependent. We are talking consistant use for weeks or months, and getting sick as a dog with flu-like symptoms after not getting your dose...knowing full well the only thing to making you well would be more opiates.
I agree that I hope you never experience such an addiction, but you advocating chipping like that are coming far too close to the flame to not get burned.
Yes, the best way to not INEVITABLY get hooked is to abstain. Still you have nof answered my question, how long have you been using? If in 2 more years, you have to stop, who is to say it will be easy? and i doubt 30mg 3-4 days in a row will not get your rocks off anymore, make that 3-4 times a day.
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I got 1/8 of a gram of SupremeSmokes #4(the good shit before the CW) over a week ago and I still have half the bag left. I've been taking 2tiny bumps a day for the past 2 days and plan on doing this until I finish it, shouldn't be too much longer. I'm hoping I don't get WD's, what do u guys think?
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Come on dude, one blue per day for 3-4 days at a time isnt a binge and not nearly enough time to grow physically dependent. We are talking consistant use for weeks or months, and getting sick as a dog with flu-like symptoms after not getting your dose...knowing full well the only thing to making you well would be more opiates.
I agree that I hope you never experience such an addiction, but you advocating chipping like that are coming far too close to the flame to not get burned.
Yes, the best way to not INEVITABLY get hooked is to abstain. Still you have nof answered my question, how long have you been using? If in 2 more years, you have to stop, who is to say it will be easy? and i doubt 30mg 3-4 days in a row will not get your rocks off anymore, make that 3-4 times a day.
I've been doing the 3-4 day 30mg Roxy a month thing for over a decade. It has been a fairly regular thing but there have definitely been an occasional month or so I've gone without it. I've also substituted Oxy for H on numerous occasions, too, but I prefer Oxy.
To be clear, I'm just trying to gauge how other users are using opiates recreationally in a responsible yet somewhat consistent manner. I completely realize that 3-4 days of 30mg of Roxy (and occasional H use) a month is hardly a binge. For me it seems like one but I guess the definition of a binge varies from person to person. Personally, I can't even begin to comprehend using opiates daily for weeks or even months. Don't get me wrong, it sounds heavenly but that is absolutely inviting addiction.
I got 1/8 of a gram of SupremeSmokes #4(the good shit before the CW) over a week ago and I still have half the bag left. I've been taking 2tiny bumps a day for the past 2 days and plan on doing this until I finish it, shouldn't be too much longer. I'm hoping I don't get WD's, what do u guys think?
The longest I've gone is a week and tolerance started to become an issue. Rather than doing more I just found ways to work around it. (See my posts above) I experienced no signs of physical dependence but be prepared to battle the voice in your head which insists to "BUY MORE!" This voice only lasts a few days, for me at least. Just ignore that voice until it goes away and you're good. Sadly, I suspect most addicts don't ignore this voice.
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Come on dude, one blue per day for 3-4 days at a time isnt a binge and not nearly enough time to grow physically dependent. We are talking consistant use for weeks or months, and getting sick as a dog with flu-like symptoms after not getting your dose...knowing full well the only thing to making you well would be more opiates.
I agree that I hope you never experience such an addiction, but you advocating chipping like that are coming far too close to the flame to not get burned.
Yes, the best way to not INEVITABLY get hooked is to abstain. Still you have nof answered my question, how long have you been using? If in 2 more years, you have to stop, who is to say it will be easy? and i doubt 30mg 3-4 days in a row will not get your rocks off anymore, make that 3-4 times a day.
I've been doing the 3-4 day 30mg Roxy a month thing for over a decade. It has been a fairly regular thing but there have definitely been an occasional month or so I've gone without it. I've also substituted Oxy for H on numerous occasions, too, but I prefer Oxy.
To be clear, I'm just trying to gauge how other users are using opiates recreationally in a responsible yet somewhat consistent manner. I completely realize that 3-4 days of 30mg of Roxy (and occasional H use) a month is hardly a binge. For me it seems like one but I guess the definition of a binge varies from person to person. Personally, I can't even begin to comprehend using opiates daily for weeks or even months. Don't get me wrong, it sounds heavenly but that is absolutely inviting addiction.
I got 1/8 of a gram of SupremeSmokes #4(the good shit before the CW) over a week ago and I still have half the bag left. I've been taking 2tiny bumps a day for the past 2 days and plan on doing this until I finish it, shouldn't be too much longer. I'm hoping I don't get WD's, what do u guys think?
The longest I've gone is a week and tolerance started to become an issue. Rather than doing more I just found ways to work around it. (See my posts above) I experienced no signs of physical dependence but be prepared to battle the voice in your head which insists to "BUY MORE!" This voice only lasts a few days, for me at least. Just ignore that voice until it goes away and you're good. Sadly, I suspect most addicts don't ignore this voice.
I look at this as a test for myself. To see how much self control I really do have and to see if I have an addictive personality, which I believe I do not. I have done this test with crystal meth and I passed. Shit I still have half the bag of crystal left, its just been sittin in my drug treasure chest. I have no desire to do any so I'm just saving it for a rainy day. Heroin I heard was a different ballgame so I wanted to try it out. I have full confidence I will not be purchasing again when this bag is done.