Silk Road forums

Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: pcgamer02 on August 06, 2011, 04:44 am

Title: Current resident viable?
Post by: pcgamer02 on August 06, 2011, 04:44 am
The general consensus on here seems to be using a fake name is the way to go. This works most of the time but could cause suspicion. What about using "Current Resident" instead of an actual name. I receive a lot of garbage with that on it already. What does everyone think?
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: redtide on August 06, 2011, 04:52 am
Current resident without bulk rate processing would be a red flag.
Best if you use a former tenant's name whose mail still gets sent to that address.
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: pcgamer02 on August 06, 2011, 05:04 am
Unfortunately where Ive been sending stuff to keeps a list of former tenants so it can be forwarded on.
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: Kind Bud on August 07, 2011, 01:56 am
The general consensus on here seems to be using a fake name is the way to go.
Using a fake name is NOT the general consensus. Most established buyers and sellers and the postal inspector say that using a fake name raises suspicion and puts your at more risk.

The best idea is to have NOTHING suspicious about the delivery.

Deliveries from Silk Road should look exactly like all any other mail, why would you want it to stand out?

NO ONE gets a package sent to "Current Resident"  in real life.

Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: pcgamer02 on August 07, 2011, 03:52 am
The general consensus on here seems to be using a fake name is the way to go.
Using a fake name is NOT the general consensus. Most established buyers and sellers and the postal inspector say that using a fake name raises suspicion and puts your at more risk.

The best idea is to have NOTHING suspicious about the delivery.

Deliveries from Silk Road should look exactly like all any other mail, why would you want it to stand out?

NO ONE gets a package sent to "Current Resident"  in real life.


Great advice!
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: 0xbeef- on August 07, 2011, 06:22 pm
The general consensus on here seems to be using a fake name is the way to go. This works most of the time but could cause suspicion. What about using "Current Resident" instead of an actual name. I receive a lot of garbage with that on it already. What does everyone think?

I agree with the comments on "current resident", it's a bad idea as it is generally only used by advertising/bulk mailing companies who almost never send out packages or "heavy" letter mail.

If we are speaking to keeping a certain level of anonymity in transactions... I would simply abbreviate and use minor misspellings of a real name, which would provide enough obscurity to protect an identity, in most cases.

For example: Instead of addressing to "Tom Johnson"   change it to:  "T. Johnston", or something similar which would make it much more difficult for anyone without access to specific information to identify a real name/location, but would also not raise a lot of attention in the system... People make minor spelling mistakes all the time.

Of course, this should be coupled with a 3rd party mailbox/address, unless you are renting the residence at your current location (much more difficult to get the name of a resident who rents vs. owns a property)


My two cents, feel free to correct me and/or add to my logic.


Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: Kind Bud on August 07, 2011, 06:58 pm
@0xbeef
Generic sounding names, fake names, and misspellings are mentioned specifically in the FBI's list of identifying suspicious packages.

Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: elementaryskool on August 07, 2011, 07:30 pm
http://www.fresno.gov/NR/rdonlyres/A58A779A-32D9-4283-9C3F-C84884E6A7DB/0/advisory.pdf

Apparently this was an FBI message to many USPS - as a reaction to anthrax scares more than SR type stuff
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: joeblow2 on August 07, 2011, 08:56 pm
The general consensus on here seems to be using a fake name is the way to go. This works most of the time but could cause suspicion. What about using "Current Resident" instead of an actual name. I receive a lot of garbage with that on it already. What does everyone think?

I agree with the comments on "current resident", it's a bad idea as it is generally only used by advertising/bulk mailing companies who almost never send out packages or "heavy" letter mail.

If we are speaking to keeping a certain level of anonymity in transactions... I would simply abbreviate and use minor misspellings of a real name, which would provide enough obscurity to protect an identity, in most cases.

For example: Instead of addressing to "Tom Johnson"   change it to:  "T. Johnston", or something similar which would make it much more difficult for anyone without access to specific information to identify a real name/location, but would also not raise a lot of attention in the system... People make minor spelling mistakes all the time.

Of course, this should be coupled with a 3rd party mailbox/address, unless you are renting the residence at your current location (much more difficult to get the name of a resident who rents vs. owns a property)


My two cents, feel free to correct me and/or add to my logic.

You're absolutely right Oxbeef!  Many, many years ago I sold online (all statute of limitations have expired, finally!) and this is the exact way that all our most successful buyers purchased.  I don't know why people keep saying to use the name of a former resident unless it's their intention to have the former resident get the drugs at their new address! :P

With an escrow system, it's a HUGE DISSERVICE to the sellers to use a fake name or the previous resident's name and then say that the package never arrived when the USPS does its job correctly.

Besides, does anyone really believe that LE would believe that some "former resident" who hasn't lived there in 2+ years suddenly forgot their own address and had it sent to their "former home"?   In the area of plausible deniability you're much better off showing that the person is someone with a name much like yours...just NOT yours! :)
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: Kind Bud on August 07, 2011, 09:32 pm
<EDIT>
This thread become a debate with people arguing their own opinion.
There are other threads featuring experienced sellers and buyer who are happy to help.

You can start by looking up
"How to spot a suspicious package"
Here is a copy of the FBI and USPS list

Excessive postage
Unfamiliar recipient
Warnings such as ʺPersonalʺ or ʺconfidentialʺ
Handwritten  addresses
Generic sounding names (John Smith)
Incorrect  titles
Misspellings
Taped edges or seams
Oily stains, discolorations
Odor
Missing or incorrect return address
Postmark does not match return address
Excessive weight
Lopsided or uneven envelope
Rattling or other sounds
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: 0xbeef- on August 08, 2011, 12:55 am
Ya, I have to agree with joeblow2 on his agreement... Also, according to the USPS "hand written address" makes a package suspicious, which pretty much covers a rather large percentage of all lettermail? They don't pull all that shit aside to investigate everything that meets a single criterion, such as "hand written" or "misspelled".

These types of things, in my view, are not going to set off any alarms anywhere; as long as another indicator doesn't exist (such as smell, staining, tape, etc.); It would be a massive cost to the system to match and reference names against all known addresses in a given country, as mail is flowing in and out... It's just not enough of an indication, on it's own, to warrant an investigation. 

It is worth mentioning, as well, that the anonymity provided by 3rd party boxes and minor alterations to real names; is only protecting your anonymity between you and your seller... this doesn't protect you from LE, if they decide that the address is a viable target... Then they will execute a controlled delivery, or they will wait for someone to come and claim a package (if it's a box)

Also, I've seen "use a fake ID to open a box somewhere" thrown out before, and this is horrible advice in my opinion... Using fake identification will only aggravate charges and turn any circumstance into veritable hurricane of very serious legal issues.





Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: Kind Bud on August 08, 2011, 01:47 am
I would avoid anything on that list.
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: joeblow2 on August 08, 2011, 03:25 am
Ya, I have to agree with joeblow2 on his agreement... Also, according to the USPS "hand written address" makes a package suspicious, which pretty much covers a rather large percentage of all lettermail? They don't pull all that shit aside to investigate everything that meets a single criterion, such as "hand written" or "misspelled".

These types of things, in my view, are not going to set off any alarms anywhere; as long as another indicator doesn't exist (such as smell, staining, tape, etc.); It would be a massive cost to the system to match and reference names against all known addresses in a given country, as mail is flowing in and out... It's just not enough of an indication, on it's own, to warrant an investigation. 

It is worth mentioning, as well, that the anonymity provided by 3rd party boxes and minor alterations to real names; is only protecting your anonymity between you and your seller... this doesn't protect you from LE, if they decide that the address is a viable target... Then they will execute a controlled delivery, or they will wait for someone to come and claim a package (if it's a box)

Also, I've seen "use a fake ID to open a box somewhere" thrown out before, and this is horrible advice in my opinion... Using fake identification will only aggravate charges and turn any circumstance into veritable hurricane of very serious legal issues.

Well, it appears that Oxbeef and I are having a bromance at this point. :)  Just having a hand-written address is NOT enough to get a letter pulled, otherwise it would be bedlam at the P.O.  It gets pulled if it has a hand-written address and one of those other red flag items.

Renting a P.O. box in a fake name shows *intent* and gets you in bigger trouble.  The misspelled name only keeps you from having a problem if it's something like a prescription size order of valium and they just decided to check it out instead of sending a love letter. 

All of the other situations arise when the P.O. has *already targeted you or your address* for some reason.  That's why it's so good to use a similar name and correct address: you don't have letters/boxes with your REAL ADDRESS floating around the dead letter office that may get opened, they find your 2,000 hits of Ganesh and suddenly you have LE on your doorstep...even though you never paid for that order because it was never delivered to you. :P 

Bottom line: use your real name or the first initial plus similar last name and make sure, for your sake and the sellers sake, that your product gets to you. 
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: 0xbeef- on August 08, 2011, 03:53 am
Haha... a bromance  ;)

Again I agree with the bottom line, as put forward by joeblow2... If you are comfortable with it, then get yourself a little extra anonymity and/or deniability while also ensuring that your packages make it to delivery; everyone wins... Buyer and seller alike.

This is an excellent thread started by a great question about "current occupant", as i'm sure more than one person has considered it and wondered.

All things considered, send stuff to yourself to test it out (Dummy letters, etc.)
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: CaptainJohnny on August 10, 2011, 10:07 pm
C'mon people, you're missing the point.

Anyone can send anything in the mail to anyone else. It doesn't matter who's name is on it. It won't help you in a bust either way. May as well fly under the radar and use your actual name.

Don't open the box.
Don't sign for anything, ever.
There should be absolutely no reason for you to have to talk to anybody to get it. *
Immediately write "Return to Sender, Recipient Unknown" on it.
Let it sit around for at least a few days before opening it.

* If asked to sign for it by a postal worker (whom you've never seen before); it's not a postal worker! Reject the package. Don't blame the seller. Don't have a conversation about it. This package should be left in your mailbox like anything else. If something other than that is happening, the jig is up.

If you really feel ballsy, put your own return address label on it (of someone you don't like) before you take the empty box back to the PO saying "nobody who lives here has any idea who's it is." Make sure the weight still matches... If the package or it's contents have been adulterated and you have any excuse to think you're the victim of a controlled delivery, don't effing do this. They already weighed it and TOOK PICTURES; they'll know you swapped the label...

Don't get paranoid when it's late. Get paranoid when you place your order. You know your neighborhood.... Anything look funny the same day as, and the days leading up to delivery? Surveillance occurs before, not only after...

So... Let me review....

If anything other than the usual happens, don't accept it. You shouldn't ahve to sign for anything. There is no reason for a postal worker to be talking to you. Period! If talking is going on, you already have your answer: It's gone sideways!

When everything goes according to plan, consider that you could still be getting watched anyway. These people are paid perverts. They love to sit in the bushes and spy on you.

One good option is to immediately write "return to sender: unrequested" or similar on the package. Just effing do it. Shut up and do it you stupid pot-head! :-p

Then, you've got options.

1) Just wait a few days.

Have you noticed that the box is still closed and says "return to sender: unrequested" on it? Even if it has YOUR name on it. You have no more protection by using a fake name, and all it can do is raise suspicion. Anyone can send anything to anyone. Don't make any statement accepting a package or identifying it as your own. Remember that part about talking? If you're doing it, the jig is already up. Shut your damn mouth and reject the package. NOW! Yes, we know you want your drugs. But accepting this package isn't going to get you high, only fucked!

2) Smoke it all right now.
3) Get it out to your car unseen and see if you are followed.

4) If nobody follows you, go to a friend's house and smoke out.

Whichever you choose, burn the package. You can claim you never opened the thing and burned it because it was suspicious and don't trust LE not to charge you with something you never asked for. Once it's burned, who can argue?

"I don't consent to any searches"

Worst case, you get busted with a 1/4. Most places that is a misdemeanor.

SHUT YOUR MOUTH! YOU CANNOT TALK YOUR WAY OUT OF IT! YOU WILL NEVER GET A "DEAL!" IF THEY WANT YOU TO TALK IT IS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET YOU ANY OTHER WAY. SHUT YOUR MOUTH!

Let me say it one more time. Nothing unusual should be going on. How many times has your postal person hand-delivered a package to you for no damn reason at all? NEVER, that's right. Don't forget that. If it is suddenly happen, that is not a postal person, and the stuff you ordered isn't in that package anymore anyway! If this package is coming to you by any means other than every other package you've ever gotten in your lifetime, something is up.

How many times can it be said? A fake name only raises suspicions. Possession of the package and what you appear to be doing with it are what determine your guilt or innocence. If it is unopened, your position is the same no matter who's name is on it. A fake name only looks like soemthng odd is going on, which they look into, and find drugs. Now it looks pretty obvious that you were trying to hide drugs. But you also look like a stupid pot-head because you thought the fake name would protect you, but it has now fucked you because you didn't bother to crack open a few law books and read for 15 minutes. Getting caught with the fake name looks like you're trying to hide something. It also makes you more likely to get caught. If you do get caught, but you have your real name, it actually gives you more deniability because you wrote "return to sender: unrequested" on the box with your real name! Who the hell buys drugs with their real name? It looks exactly like your story sounds when you use your real name.

You bought drugs. You have them now. You are in no better or worse position than any other drug purchase you've ever made in your life.

Something I've never seen anyone talk about is requesting 'samples' from a business. Like free sample business cards or some such. Classy people often have drop cards made, anything with a name and phone number on it. Now think. Who's name? How much does it cost? The fake name, and it's free. Just call these fuckers up and say you want to see some sample promotional materials. Hell, make up a fake company name. Guess what? You've got real, legit mail coming to your house with that name on it. A half dozen of these and it looks legit. Mail man doesn't think it's odd at all... And the company isn't registered to you because it doesn't exist.

Is that so hard? :-p
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: 0xbeef- on August 11, 2011, 12:54 am

Let me see if I can follow this paradox...

1) Use your real name, to "fly under the radar", but...

2) When you get your shit, write "return to sender, recipient unknown" on it... because they'll believe you don't know yourself

3) Don't accept a controlled delivery... Which is sound advice.

4) If you don't think they'll believe that you don't know yourself, try writing "Return to sender: unrequested"... Tell them no one ever sends you shit without permission?

5) Everyone is hiding in the bushes

And to conclude:  A fake name is a stupid idea, but a fake company name is an awesome one.


;)

Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: CaptainJohnny on August 11, 2011, 01:30 am

Let me see if I can follow this paradox...

1) Use your real name, to "fly under the radar", but...

It beats flying smack in the middle of the radar.

2) When you get your shit, write "return to sender, recipient unknown" on it... because they'll believe you don't know yourself

I did not say that.

3) Don't accept a controlled delivery... Which is sound advice.

Don't get excited and forget what a controlled delivery is.

If you're talking to a postal employee over something there is no reason to be talking to a postal employee for... The jig is already up. No doubt. Refuse the package.

It should be left in your mail box like everything else. If anything other than that is happening, the jig is up. Refuse the package.

Even if it is delivered normally, they could still be in the bushes. I know plenty of people who laughed at this, when it was very literally true. They aren't laughing anymore. Their arrogance made it impossible to help them.

4) If you don't think they'll believe that you don't know yourself, try writing "Return to sender: unrequested"... Tell them no one ever sends you shit without permission?

This is merely an expression of intent. It isn't concrete. But it helps. The fact that no one needs permission means your argument is plausible.

As the old saying goes, possession is 9/10th of the law. And I have experience with that.

Getting busted with a fake name proves you were trying to hide something. You're also more likely to get busted because of it and you can't get out of that trap you just set for yourself.

If you get busted with your real name, make a clear marking on the box that you were taking to the post office for return (or so your story goes), and you don't blab or give in to the scare tactics, you'll almost always get off the hook. Why? Because there is nothing proving you asked for it or claimed it as your own. As you pointed out, you can't control who sends you shit in the mail.

Don't defeat this, it's your only lifeline. Fake name defeats it.

I speak from experience, not theory.

5) Everyone is hiding in the bushes

Is it safer to presume that they are not? Only the paranoid survive. I'm living proof.

And to conclude:  A fake name is a stupid idea, but a fake company name is an awesome one.

I never said that.

I said that if you insist on using a fake name, do yourself the courtesy of having some other very legit looking business mail come first to get the postal employee accustomed to that name. It's still a bad idea, but it's slightly less bad if you buffer it like this. A business could be anyone. An individual, well, where is he? Can you show me this invisible room mate?

Aside from internal checking, dogs, leaks, x-ray, etc... The fake name is the next thing on the list that gets people busted, and they cannot get off the hook because it is obviously pre-meditaded. Pre-meditation eliminates plausible deniability. Also known as 'reasonable doubt.' Read cases of people getting busted for receiving drugs in the mail, it's enlightening.

1) Plausible deniability is all you've got, granted to you only because it's a box in the mail. It is still no guarantee. Use of a fake name eliminates this. You cut your own throat.

2) Drugs in your possession any other way give you no such hope. Using the fake name kills that plausible deniability. You're boned. Period. Done. Game over.

3) If you get some other mail to your address under that name, the eyebrow does not get raised to begin with. Still a bad idea, but slightly less bad. You sill lose your plausible deniability becasue it is obviously pre-meditated. But, chances of getting discovered are much lower.

Do you see the pattern? Plausible deniability is your only lifeline. It is not a guarantee. Using a fake name destroys this lifeline.

These are your choices:

1) Use your real name and have a strong chance of getting off the hook even if you accept a controlled delivery. Don't sign, and avoid using the wrong words.
2) Use a fake name and be guaranteed fucked in the ass if the shipment is discovered to be contraband.
3) Use a fake name and mitigate the chances that it will be discovered, still significant risk of a giant government penis in your ass. If your shipment is discovered to be contraband, you're just as fucked as option 2 because you killed your plausible deniability. But the odds of it getting that far are significantly reduced.

I can lead the horse to water...  The rest is up to the horse.
Title: bad advice thread
Post by: Kind Bud on August 11, 2011, 01:48 am
I am abandoning this thread.
I would rather spend my time helping people than argue with people who insist that they are right.

This thread features new people who are giving poor advice with little or no experience using their best guess on how they would do it.

We have several threads about this with people who have decades of experience.
We have several threads with experiences Silk Road buyers and sellers.
We have a thread with a formal postal inspector who gives advice that is the opposite of this thread.

Anyone new to Silk Road who reads this thread, I highly suggest you look though the security forum and not pay any attention to this thread.

Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: CaptainJohnny on August 11, 2011, 02:08 am
I concur even though I am being referred to.

Presuming to know my experience level is plain ignorant. I could be a defense lawyer with over 20 years of experience defending exactly this sort of thing...  Nah, that's not possible. But I'll not say either way.

Have all the rope you'd like... I've never been to prison. I've never even been arrested. There's a reason for that, and it isn't internet armchair quarterbacking from people who think that pot was never mailed to anyone before Silk Road came along...

You'll find the majority of my commentary to be in sync with most experienced posters. A few additions I've put in fill holes and get the ol' noggin churning. ...or not, for those who haven't got a noggin to churn...

This is the ultimate in anonymity, it cannot possibly extend my ePeen as no one will ever know who I am... It benefits me nothing to lie, and can only benefit those who choose to learn. Or not.

A buyer's one and only defense is the hope that their plausible deniability convinces a judge that it's not a solid case and is dismissed before trial. Fake Names defeat that. Facts don't change based on internet egos. I'm trying to help my fellow Agorists. If they don't want my help, well, guess how much money it cost you....
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: 0xbeef- on August 11, 2011, 02:26 am

I am abandoning this thread.
I would rather spend my time helping people than argue with people who insist that they are right.

This thread features new people who are giving poor advice with little or no experience using their best guess on how they would do it.

We have several threads about this with people who have decades of experience.
We have several threads with experiences Silk Road buyers and sellers.
We have a thread with a formal postal inspector who gives advice that is the opposite of this thread.

Anyone new to Silk Road who reads this thread, I highly suggest you look though the security forum and not pay any attention to this thread.




Does being "new" here, automatically make people illegitimate?..

I feel that is a bit elitist, on your part.

Also, your postal inspector (who you referenced as a legitimate source of information) has also agreed with many of the points made in this thread... such as handwritten labels rarely getting attention, etc.

Just pointing that out with a hope that we don't disregard things that have been said...  Simply because of a lack of consonance in opinions? I think that you will find these opinions to vary quite mildly; after closer consideration of the arguments.

But, all things as they are...  When someone must be correct; they usually leave.
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: Mister Dank on August 11, 2011, 07:19 pm
As a seller, I can tell you from experience that whether the address is handwritten or not has ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on the suspiciousness of the package. Every package that I've had intercepted was with a typed label and so far, the ones I've sent handwritten all make it through.

In fact, the truth is probably the opposite: handwritten looks more genuine, whereas LE knows criminals will use labels.

My best advice is to mix it up - make every package different. Mine got intercepted because they all looked the same. I also suspect that quite a few of them were fake orders made by Feds that were flagged from the start.


<EDIT>
This thread become a debate with people arguing their own opinion.
There are other threads featuring experienced sellers and buyer who are happy to help.

You can start by looking up
"How to spot a suspicious package"
Here is a copy of the FBI and USPS list

Excessive postage
Unfamiliar recipient
Warnings such as ʺPersonalʺ or ʺconfidentialʺ
Handwritten  addresses
Generic sounding names (John Smith)
Incorrect  titles
Misspellings
Taped edges or seams
Oily stains, discolorations
Odor
Missing or incorrect return address
Postmark does not match return address
Excessive weight
Lopsided or uneven envelope
Rattling or other sounds
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: CaptainJohnny on August 29, 2011, 07:42 pm
Heyguesswhat?
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: brockeh on September 01, 2011, 12:48 am
Heyguesswhat?
WHUT??
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: CaptainJohnny on September 06, 2011, 09:43 pm
I farted.
Title: Re: Current resident viable?
Post by: novocaine on September 06, 2011, 10:39 pm
As a seller, I can tell you from experience that whether the address is handwritten or not has ABSOLUTELY ZERO impact on the suspiciousness of the package. Every package that I've had intercepted was with a typed label and so far, the ones I've sent handwritten all make it through.

In fact, the truth is probably the opposite: handwritten looks more genuine, whereas LE knows criminals will use labels.

My best advice is to mix it up - make every package different. Mine got intercepted because they all looked the same. I also suspect that quite a few of them were fake orders made by Feds that were flagged from the start.



+10

I believe this to be true ime.

In fact stand out occasionally. I have sent packages to mates and vice versa with the address of things like C/- 'Petes Dildos PTY LTD' or 'Britney Spears ultimate fan club' or put something dumb in their name like dazza dhik-ed.

Hide in plain sight, make it look personal.
That said I follow my customers address and name to the tee, but mates....lol the most outrages fake companies we can think of the better ime