Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Centrum on September 26, 2013, 09:28 pm
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I wouldn't talk or say anything near the smart phones that you are doing that is against the law. If you think that people don't use the smart phones to ease drop on others using the built in camera and microphones your dead wrong. You never know who is listening and watching.
Well i will just turn it off hell I will take their battery out?? Ahhhh still with the right person its still can be used to watch and listen in and I'm not being paranoid its a fact and its was easier than you would ever think.
P.S Iphones are the worst of the worst for this. Iphones are so great that all the information you access is stored in the lens in a special place that is never erased not matter what you do with the phone. There is special software that is readily available to access this can access this uneasrable, comprehensive data on whatever you use the phone to do.
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I always wondered if the microfone is good enough to record your conversation when you put the mobile phone into your pocket. I mean the quality of speakerphone function seems to be very bad on most phones.
One thing is for sure, the built-in camera won't reord you in this case ;D
To be really safe you could buy this one:
Clearnet:
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I wouldn't talk or say anything near the smart phones that you are doing that is against the law. If you think that people don't use the smart phones to ease drop on others using the built in camera and microphones your dead wrong. You never know who is listening and watching.
This is true to some extent, but you're being a bit too paranoid.
Well i will just turn it off hell I will take their battery out?? Ahhhh still with the right person its still can be used to watch and listen in and I'm not being paranoid its a fact and its was easier than you would ever think.
So you believe that a device with ZERO power whatsoever is somehow still working and transmitting data? Do you know how electronics work? ??? ? I mean, are you fucking serious!? ROFL
P.S Iphones are the worst of the worst for this. Iphones are so great that all the information you access is stored in the lens in a special place that is never erased not matter what you do with the phone. There is special software that is readily available to access this can access this uneasrable, comprehensive data on whatever you use the phone to do.
"Stored in the lens" ..... I don't even think I need to explain why this one is stupid.
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No if you take the battery out you are fine. Everything needs power to run.
And finding if LE is using it to eavesdrop on you is very easy. Just touch your battery when it is not doing anything. If it is not warm then you have nothing to worry about. Another method is just keep an eye on the battery. If the battery is draining fast and your phone is just sitting there then a background program is running. Not that hard. My cell is always cold when it is not charging or I'm not using it, the battery also always stays high. That is how I know they are not using my phone to ease drop. Listening into my phone calls is another matter but I know my number is safe from that as well. All the major phone companies have dedicated law enforcement lines for the specific numbers they have on tap. I know the number for my carrier and my cell is not tapped.
You guys should freak out less. For every technique of theirs there is a way to either counter it or detect it.
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half of this is smart, the other half ridiculous.
1) your phone absolutely is a tool used by LE. I believe it was in 2011 there was a conference for LE that came with a 200+ page power point presentation detailing how to preserve data on phones. Everything from simply ripping the battery to some sort of bags that block signals so remote deletion wasn't possible. It also outlined where to find data on phones, the was an emphasis on pgp phones (specifically blackberrys that had the guts ripped out and new software added)
Anyone who has watched Cops or some other version of has seen an officer do a "traffic" stop yank the person rip the phone and waiting for it to ring for a meet up with someone else. The Cop will happily in as few words as possible set a meet, or rather agree to a meet to snag another arrest.
2) your phone (especially new phones) can be used to listen in, to locate, and to record you. Is it likely? I have no idea. I would assume no. Is having your phone in your pocket a good way to muffle the conversation? No clue, maybe but it really depends on a lot of things, personally it's just safer to leave it else where. Can a phone powered off but with it's battery in it be used to record or listen in? No idea. I know certain legit apps have permission to prevent phones from sleeping, and have access to record you, or access your contacts. I doubt your phone could be turned on without your permission (physically turning it on) but again why risk it?
a phone without power will not be able to function as anything more than a data storage "brick" whatever is on your phone is on your phone. whatever isn't, isn't
There is no lens or anything else for that matter that holds data the way the OP describes. phones like all devices have a finite space for data storage and such a "lens" would make all hard drives and sd cards (and other storage) obsolete. Your phone can store things without your knowledge, but it can only store so much information. Most of which you can access though it can be hidden in subfolders and be difficult to quickly find
Some practical advice if you decide to use a smart phone for business. ..... well just Don't. but if you must
1) assume it can be listened to and that your conversations are recorded. better to be paranoid than caught.
2) assume it gives away your location (so don't take it with you anywhere that you don't want it proven that you've been)
3) assume that anything on your phone, contacts, pictures, msgs, encrypted emails etc are all fully available to LE, especially if they ever snatch your phone. This doesn't mean confess to everything it merely means if they have your phone and you are doing the smart thing keeping your mouth shut except to say "lawyer"
4) don't bring the phone with you when having a sensitive conversation. The mics don't appear to be that good on phones but why risk it when it can be as simple as leaving your phone in the washroom with the tap running beside it.
If you want to be smart about it, get a burner phone. most corner stores sell cheap preloaders that are capable of text and talk. buy one put 100$ on it and when it's done. it's done. There are no names tied to it when purchased. At this point your biggest concern is being caught with it on you and the things you have on it (contacts, call history, txts etc). 2 ways to help mitigate this risk. 1) don't leave anything on the phone, contacts, texts, previous call history, no god damn pictures ever !!!! even after deleting most pictures can be recovered. So don't put contacts in. after every txt delete it, after every call erase the history. is this fool proof NO NOT AT ALL. data can be recovered after deletion. but it helps. it adds more time and effort to recovering data. It also might find it's way into the hands of an idiot cop who goes "shit this was never used theres nothing on it. it's garbage." it also may lead to you being able to say that you don't know anything about the phone other than you found it (talk to a lawyer before ever stating anything to the police about this. remember golden rule #1 always keep your mouth shut)
2) is a risky venture depending on whats on the phone and how confident you are. If the police in any situation lose sight of you there is no longer a continuity of any evidence. what I mean is if you turn and run from a cop and you turn a corner if they no longer have sight of you, they can't prove that the phone they found on the ground is yours. This will 100% require going to court because they are going to say it was your phone and you're going to say it wasn't and in the end it's going to be you stating that they lost sight of you so they can't 100% say that you tossed the phone. For this to even have a snow balls chance in hell they absolutely must lose sight of you. Note that doing this will most likely have you with an added charge of avoiding arrest, or resisting arrest or some such thing. It may be prudent to turn a corner toss what you are tossing and then stop, place your hands in the air and state that you are surrendering and were frightened when the police started screaming at you and pointed guns at you, once you realized it was the police you willfully surrendered to their custody. I've never tried this. I don't advocate doing it unless you are in some real deep shit. I do know that when you do something of this nature in a vehicle it can work out well but again I wouldn't advice it.
Just as a side example for the continuity part. One experience I've been privy too involves a 2 lane curvy road in dense forest. It's a small highway speed limit about 55mph. while driving this person had in the car about 18 oz of material. The police didn't know that the person had this on them and I believe were pulling the person over for unrelated reasons. However the person was well known to police and felt it was in their best interest to not be pulled over with any material on them. The police weren't directly behind this person, perhaps a few hundred yards back. The person driving was well aware of the police vehicle behind them, and that it was catching up. The driver decided at this point to hit the gas at the next curve. The driver continued to accelerate through this turn and down the next straightaway. By the time the police had rounded the corner and realized the increase in speed the driver was already going around the next curve a good distance away. The moment the driver was partially around this curve, and well out of sight the 18oz bag was launched out the passenger side window.
The driver then resumed normal speed and the police now had their lights turned on and were flooring it to catch up. Soon as the driver saw the lights he did what any good citizen does and pulled over. The police drove up to the now parked car and proceeded with a traffic type stop.
Key things to note in this were that the police did not have their lights on at the time of the drivers choice to speed up, I believe this to be what saved the driver from being charged with resisting arrest or fleeing or some other crap.
Take from it what you will. Just some thoughts.
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I think you might need to check your self in for a psych evaluation, there is no one sitting behind a desk listening or recording your voice or looking at messages. No one cares really and there is no evidence that anyone would do this is it possible maybe but it is not realistic. Who the police? No they have no idea they are to busy writing speeding tickets. The government maybe some three letter organizational doubt it they have much more going on that investigating one person all day going through all your message and conversation, there are millions of Iphones there not going to watch one person because he goes on SR. Seriously you need to slow down your thinking before you end up schizophrenic hearing voices from your phone thinking about conversation that don't exist if you feed into this it will build up into a point where you can't control I have seen it happen to a friend. Being paranoid isn't good for your mental health so calm down and don't worry nothing is going on unless your on the DEA top 10 list which your not so you don't have to get a burner phone and all that stuff just chill
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All these companies sell law enforcement one-click solutions to backdoor any device https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles3 your local cops have this software or access to it is just a phone call away to regional drug enforcement who will happily help them pwn your entire comms. Underestimate your adversary at your own 5-15yrs in prison peril.
Burner phone? Waste of time. http://www.scribd.com/doc/164396378/Seattle-Hemisphere-Info
BTW, they don't need a warrant to track and tap prepaid phones with no subscriber info in most countries. You can thank orwellian counter terrorism laws.
Get a used android phone off craigslist for $50-100. Put aftermarket firmware on it from any source (Cyanogenmod is good) so at least your local carrier can't silently backdoor you with spyware updates. Install Textsecure, Redphone and CsipSimple/Ostel. If it's rooted (Cyanogenmod) then get Droidwall and lock out everything except those 3 apps esp your browser. This is a business phone don't be a retard and use it for anything else. Now start adb shell and remove any google applications, especially: googleservicesframework.apk and com.android.vending (playstore) to prevent Google backdooring you silently.
Now disable USB debugging, make sure your bootloader is locked, and that's good enough security. This is now your "burner phone". Nobody will be able to intercept your communications with bullshit Stingray or telco surveillance but they can still track you, and if they seize your phone you're fucked but you would be fucked anyways with a regular feature/burner phone. At least now your comms are encrypted rendering dragnet and push button surveillance useless. Use this phone for a few weeks and then zero out the userdata partition, flash a fresh Cyanogenmod install and sell it. Use the funds to buy a new throwaway cheap smartphone.
To protect against seizure you need to build your own device or flash a special sec rom that is anti forensics which is way too long to post here.
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Dude I'm telling you its true with out giving away my idenity I can tell you with certainty that this has been used against certain people and Its been used against me most smart phones have the capability and the software to do this . The iPhone was specifically designed and made to store information like this and if necessary to be used as a tool for LE. Every transistor of every screw was designed with this in mind from the start. You don't believe me do your own research and google I'm telling you your being a bit naive when it comes to this.
When the battery is taken out and the phone is turned off you bet your ass it is possible how you ask? because the smart phone have a built in back up power source like any high tech computer that's why you never loose your time, calendar settings, date, etc.
I urge you even if you think I'm wrong why take a chance and prove that I am right? Watch your smart phones think of how far technology has come and how easy it is to use your own technology against you like I have first hand experienced.
Please don't make the same mistakes I made watch your smart phones!
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I wouldn't talk or say anything near the smart phones that you are doing that is against the law. If you think that people don't use the smart phones to ease drop on others using the built in camera and microphones your dead wrong. You never know who is listening and watching.
Well i will just turn it off hell I will take their battery out?? Ahhhh still with the right person its still can be used to watch and listen in and I'm not being paranoid its a fact and its was easier than you would ever think.
P.S Iphones are the worst of the worst for this. Iphones are so great that all the information you access is stored in the lens in a special place that is never erased not matter what you do with the phone. There is special software that is readily available to access this can access this uneasrable, comprehensive data on whatever you use the phone to do.
OK stop. Take off your tinfoil hat.
First of all, you can't record without a battery, and you can't remove an iPhone battery (you can but the average user can't). Of you take the battery out, what's powering the mic/cam?
Second, let's assume you're talking about the US. There are over 300,000,000 people in the US. I'm sure at least 30% of them have smartphones. Do you think that LE has the resource to monitor every single smartphone in the US? Even if they did, they wouldn't review them all; they'd only go back and search for ones from suspects, but this is all hypothetical because it's simply not practical and it's not happening.
Third, all phones have mics. If you're theory is correct, then they're doing this to all phones.
Finally, they just don't need to do that. They don't break into your house and bug it when they suspect you. They follow you, they set up hidden cams, they look at your finances. They tap into your phone calls and texts (which all are unencrypted and pass over the airwaves). They don't need to hear every conversation to bust you, so they're not recording what you say when you're off the phone. And they aren't watching you through the camera. You can tell when the camera is open. A screen cam (to take screen shots) is a completely different animal then what you are talking about.
Also, if you're not using Silent Circle and you're stupidly using your smartphone to communicate about drugs, then iPhone to iPhone is the MORE secure. At least iMessages are encrypted.
tl;dr stay off the Kool-Aid and drink less coffee
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Dude I'm telling you its true with out giving away my idenity I can tell you with certainty that this has been used against certain people and Its been used against me most smart phones have the capability and the software to do this . The iPhone was specifically designed and made to store information like this and if necessary to be used as a tool for LE. Every transistor of every screw was designed with this in mind from the start. You don't believe me do your own research and google I'm telling you your being a bit naive when it comes to this.
When the battery is taken out and the phone is turned off you bet your ass it is possible how you ask? because the smart phone have a built in back up power source like any high tech computer that's why you never loose your time, calendar settings, date, etc.
I urge you even if you think I'm wrong why take a chance and prove that I am right? Watch your smart phones think of how far technology has come and how easy it is to use your own technology against you like I have first hand experienced.
Please don't make the same mistakes I made watch your smart phones!
1. Google does not equal "research"
2. How did you become privy to this information. I haven't seen anything like this from the EFF or other watchdog groups. Smart phones can be infiltrated easily, but not in the way that you describe.
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Maybe you should try a tin foil hat on if that means not being naive as to whats going on around you I think you may benefit. The people in my life and around me use to talk like you. They soon learned very quickly that there is much truth to my concerns.
Your still not getting it. Look believe what you want but i'm teliling the truth. They don't need to break in they don't need to psychically do anything to your phone. It's all software thats all you need the iphone comes ready already by design to do what we talked about.
Every transistor of every screw was designed with this in mind as the first priority!
As for review all you have to do is show up on the radar that's it. Wether it be a chance encounter with a noesy LE that's all it takes. Maybe you say a catch word or phrase over the telephone.
NSA if they want you bad enough certainly has their way to go through all these lines of communication and they blame it all on terrorism prevention so they get around warrants. Look you believe what you want but I'm telling you there is a major privacy problem here.
i have become piracy to this information by first hand experienced thats how I showed up on the radar I was targeted not by the government but by hackers.
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Correct me if im wrong but even IF LE got a hold of incriminating evidence via mobile, dont they have to inform you of a tap otherwise the information was unjustly obtained? Therefore making the evidence irrelevant and useless in court.
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Incorrect if this was true what would be the point of wire taps no one would incriminate themselves. In most states without a warrant only one party has to know they are being recordered for this to be evidence legally used again the party in court.
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They don't need to break in they don't need to psychically do anything to your phone.
I know. I meant like in the James Bond sense, like breaking in and putting a "bug" under a lamp to record you. I wasn't referring to phones; I was just pointing out that it's a parallel to your scenario.
NSA if they want you bad enough certainly has their way to go through all these lines of communication and they blame it all on terrorism prevention so they get around warrants.
No shit. But they aren't reviewing ALL of the data they are mining.
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Correct me if im wrong but even IF LE got a hold of incriminating evidence via mobile, dont they have to inform you of a tap otherwise the information was unjustly obtained?
Well, yes technically, but that's not how it goes down. They have a way to get around it. The FBI in particular is known to stumble across information and pass it along to local or state LE or DAs. The same is probably true with the NSA, except they'd pass the info to the FBI.
Here's how it goes:
Somehow they find out you're dealing (say through a wire tap they DIDN'T have a warrant for). They then pass that information along to LE/DA, except they say, "Look, you didn't hear it from me, but John Doe is dealing. Look into it." Then LE pretends that they discovered you in some other way (say through your bank or surveillance for example). The illegal wiretap is never brought up in court and doesn't exist in the legal documents.
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Incorrect if this was true what would be the point of wire taps no one would incriminate themselves. In most states without a warrant only one party has to know they are being recordered for this to be evidence legally used again the party in court.
You just contradicted yourself..
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Well, yes technically, but that's not how it goes down. They have a way to get around it. The FBI in particular is known to stumble across information and pass it along to local or state LE or DAs. The same is probably true with the NSA, except they'd pass the info to the FBI.
Here's how it goes:
Somehow they find out you're dealing (say through a wire tap they DIDN'T have a warrant for). They then pass that information along to LE/DA, except they say, "Look, you didn't hear it from me, but John Doe is dealing. Look into it." Then LE pretends that they discovered you in some other way (say through your bank or surveillance for example). The illegal wiretap is never brought up in court and doesn't exist in the legal documents.
Well I'm sure the FBI won't be concerned with anyone dealing less than anything netting under 250k/year. NSA took a very hard hit when that Russian dude leaked (Iknowhesnotrussianbutthatswhaticallhim) so im sure invasion of privacy is skating on thin ice. I hear you on the whole loophole situation, but the best thing about that is, your lawyer should find a few more (;
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Correct me if im wrong but even IF LE got a hold of incriminating evidence via mobile, dont they have to inform you of a tap otherwise the information was unjustly obtained?
Incorrect if this was true what would be the point of wire taps no one would incriminate themselves. In most states without a warrant only one party has to know they are being recordered for this to be evidence legally used again the party in court.
I believe the person in the first quote meant that they have to inform your attorney during the discovery process that they obtained a warrant and tapped your phone. And he's right technically, but there are ways around wiretap laws.
And just to clear things up, in most states (not all) in the US, you cannot legally record a telephone conversation without informing the other party that they're being recorded unless you're LE AND have a WARRANT. If the police and DA tried to use evidence from a wiretap, and it came out in court that there was no warrant for that wiretap, the evidence is thrown out. If that's all they've got, the case gets thrown out (It's unlikely that that would be the only evidence they had though.
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well said. still cant remember your password? lol
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Well, yes technically, but that's not how it goes down. They have a way to get around it. The FBI in particular is known to stumble across information and pass it along to local or state LE or DAs. The same is probably true with the NSA, except they'd pass the info to the FBI.
Here's how it goes:
Somehow they find out you're dealing (say through a wire tap they DIDN'T have a warrant for). They then pass that information along to LE/DA, except they say, "Look, you didn't hear it from me, but John Doe is dealing. Look into it." Then LE pretends that they discovered you in some other way (say through your bank or surveillance for example). The illegal wiretap is never brought up in court and doesn't exist in the legal documents.
Well I'm sure the FBI won't be concerned with anyone dealing less than anything netting under 250k/year. NSA took a very hard hit when that Russian dude leaked (Iknowhesnotrussianbutthatswhaticallhim) so im sure invasion of privacy is skating on thin ice. I hear you on the whole loophole situation, but the best thing about that is, your lawyer should find a few more (;
Oh I'm not talking about small time dealers. I mean the big fish. And besides, there's nothing stopping them from passing on information about small time dealers whom they discover "accidentally" to local police. Like say from an investigation of a larger distributor. Local police would be interested in middlemen.
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well said. still cant remember your password? lol
LMFAO. No, I'm good now. I made that up yesterday because I forgot my old password and the email address I used to register was tormail, so I couldn't retrieve it. You can't change s/n's, can you?
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i havnt the slightest clue, i just get on here to see whats up with the internet game, but recently things have changed so im looking into expanding and becoming more part of the SR comm
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Definitely a concern....also did you know that police can copy the contents of an iphone from their policecar?
Check this: (warning: clearnet)
http://thenextweb.com/us/2011/04/20/us-police-can-copy-your-iphones-contents-in-under-two-minutes/
"It has emerged that Michigan State Police have been using a high-tech mobile forensics device that can extract information from over 3,000 models of mobile phone, potentially grabbing all media content from your iPhone in under two minutes.
The CelleBrite UFED is a handheld device that Michigan officers have been using since August 2008 to copy information from mobile phones belonging to motorists stopped for minor traffic violations. The device can circumvent password restrictions and extract existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags.
In short, it can copy everything on your smartphone in a matter of minutes.
Learning that the police had been using mobile forensic devices, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has issued freedom of information requests which demand that state officials open up the data collected, to better assess if penalised motorists warrant having their data copied.
Michigan State Police were more than happy to provide the information – as long as the ACLU paid $544,680. Obviously not pocket change.
“Law enforcement officers are known, on occasion, to encourage citizens to cooperate if they have nothing to hide,” ACLU staff attorney Mark P. Fancher wrote. “No less should be expected of law enforcement, and the Michigan State Police should be willing to assuage concerns that these powerful extraction devices are being used illegally by honoring our requests for cooperation and disclosure.”
Once the data is obtained, the device’s “Physical Analyzer” can map both existing and deleted locations on Google Earth, porting location data and image geotags on Google Maps.
The ACLU’s main worry is that the handheld is quietly being used to bypass Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches:
“With certain exceptions that do not apply here, a search cannot occur without a warrant in which a judicial officer determines that there is probable cause to believe that the search will yield evidence of criminal activity.
A device that allows immediate, surreptitious intrusion into private data creates enormous risks that troopers will ignore these requirements to the detriment of the constitutional rights of persons whose cell phones are searched.”
The next time you are Michigan, be sure drive carefully!"
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sucks to live in michigan. bet the fishing is great though
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Definitely a concern....also did you know that police can copy the contents of an iphone from their policecar?
Check this: (warning: clearnet)
http://thenextweb.com/us/2011/04/20/us-police-can-copy-your-iphones-contents-in-under-two-minutes/
"It has emerged that Michigan State Police have been using a high-tech mobile forensics device that can extract information from over 3,000 models of mobile phone, potentially grabbing all media content from your iPhone in under two minutes.
The CelleBrite UFED is a handheld device that Michigan officers have been using since August 2008 to copy information from mobile phones belonging to motorists stopped for minor traffic violations. The device can circumvent password restrictions and extract existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags.
In short, it can copy everything on your smartphone in a matter of minutes.
Learning that the police had been using mobile forensic devices, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has issued freedom of information requests which demand that state officials open up the data collected, to better assess if penalised motorists warrant having their data copied.
Michigan State Police were more than happy to provide the information – as long as the ACLU paid $544,680. Obviously not pocket change.
“Law enforcement officers are known, on occasion, to encourage citizens to cooperate if they have nothing to hide,” ACLU staff attorney Mark P. Fancher wrote. “No less should be expected of law enforcement, and the Michigan State Police should be willing to assuage concerns that these powerful extraction devices are being used illegally by honoring our requests for cooperation and disclosure.”
Once the data is obtained, the device’s “Physical Analyzer” can map both existing and deleted locations on Google Earth, porting location data and image geotags on Google Maps.
The ACLU’s main worry is that the handheld is quietly being used to bypass Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches:
“With certain exceptions that do not apply here, a search cannot occur without a warrant in which a judicial officer determines that there is probable cause to believe that the search will yield evidence of criminal activity.
A device that allows immediate, surreptitious intrusion into private data creates enormous risks that troopers will ignore these requirements to the detriment of the constitutional rights of persons whose cell phones are searched.”
The next time you are Michigan, be sure drive carefully!"
OK. That's only true if your phone isn't password protected. Both iOS and Android are encrypted (well Android isn't by default, but you can change that easily in the settings).
So if your phone is locked and you refuse to unlock it, they can't do what you're describing. The moral of that story is to make sure you have a strong password and that your phone is locked when not in use.
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Cops can phone up Apple and request your password be reset remotely, regardless of encryption. Everything backed up to Apple drive or cloud w/e they call it, can be accessed by Apple. You don't have control of the key. Buy a new phone and then enter your password and presto, you get everything downloaded from Apple idrive to the new phone. Don't rely on iOS for privacy it's a blackbox.
Android if you have framework services and/or playstore cops can ask google to install any app they want such as a 3rd party screen lock app that changes the password and gives them access or keeps the phone awake. If you have your shit setup to sync/backup you're equally screwed none of it is encrypted. Multiple articles where forensic investigators have managed to escalate from the PIN screen to download apps and unlock the phone should you have playstore installed.
TL;DR don't use Blackberry, don't use iOS, use Android but rip out the shit that can remotely control your phone.
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Smartphones always be threats.
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Cops can phone up Apple and request your password be reset remotely, regardless of encryption. Everything backed up to Apple drive or cloud w/e they call it, can be accessed by Apple. You don't have control of the key. Buy a new phone and then enter your password and presto, you get everything downloaded from Apple idrive to the new phone. Don't rely on iOS for privacy it's a blackbox.
Android if you have framework services and/or playstore cops can ask google to install any app they want such as a 3rd party screen lock app that changes the password and gives them access or keeps the phone awake. If you have your shit setup to sync/backup you're equally screwed none of it is encrypted. Multiple articles where forensic investigators have managed to escalate from the PIN screen to download apps and unlock the phone should you have playstore installed.
TL;DR don't use Blackberry, don't use iOS, use Android but rip out the shit that can remotely control your phone.
None of that is going to happen on a traffic stop. The article was about police scanning phones for minor traffic violation stops. They need a warrant to do what you describe. And they're not going to get one for that. They have to have probable cause to search your car. I never said smartphones were "secure." I was commenting on traffic stops for minor moving violations only. I was also explaining that that wasn't the thing to worry about. There are many important more things to worry about. And telling people not to freak out. This technology has been in use for years in police cars.
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Amount of BS in this thread hurt head.
Battery out = phone safe. If you given custom phone in secret that fit 2nd battery and active transmit circuit then problems you have can no be fixed here and you would know ;)
Smartphone is very insecure and can be use in many ways to help LE. iPhone is most bad for this 100%. Even battery in iPhone is no easy to disconnect. Ways possible to make much safer as comsec and others try to explain.
Put password on your phone no security when come to LE. Problem with phone is carrier always have control of data channel and some remote program ability. If possible 100% to secure custom OS, carrier still have remote access to phone radio.
Simple is cell phone not safe, smartphone very more unsafe.
Decide threat model and work inside of it.
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I believe it has been confirmed that it is easy to eavesdrop on your phone even if it is supposedly "turned off".
Now the new I-phone has a fingerprint scanner, you can use to unlock your phone.
When I heard that, the first thing I thought was, how convenient, now the government can more easily work toward completing their national fingerprint database, with the full cooperation of the sheep, er citizens.
I'm also assuming everyone born after a certain date have had their DNA sample taken and stored.
I don't think it's paranoid by a long shot to believe that. Especially now that the Snowden info is confirming some things that were in the past attributed to "conspiracy nuts". I wouldn't put anything past those bastards.
In the not to distant future, it will be like in that old sci-fi movie, Gattaca. (Uma Thurman looked really hot in that movie)
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Amount of BS in this thread hurt head.
Battery out = phone safe. If you given custom phone in secret that fit 2nd battery and active transmit circuit then problems you have can no be fixed here and you would know ;)
Smartphone is very insecure and can be use in many ways to help LE. iPhone is most bad for this 100%. Even battery in iPhone is no easy to disconnect. Ways possible to make much safer as comsec and others try to explain.
Put password on your phone no security when come to LE. Problem with phone is carrier always have control of data channel and some remote program ability. If possible 100% to secure custom OS, carrier still have remote access to phone radio.
Simple is cell phone not safe, smartphone very more unsafe.
Decide threat model and work inside of it.
That's not my point. They need reasonable suspicion to search your car on a traffic stop. You don't have to hand over your phone if you've done nothing wrong. And I'm familiar with the device they're talking about. It's not anything to worry about.
As for Apple vs Google in the smartphone security gamble, I'd probably get in bed with Apple. At least their messages and backups are encrypted. Whether it's worthless or not, at least they pretend to offer you security (actually same with OSX). Google is just creepy. All they want to do is mine your data and serve up ads.
And who the fuck talks and texts about drugs on their smartphones? That's just dumb.
Look, there are many ways that they can decrypt your phone, but there's no way that's going to happen on the side of the road. That search also has to hold up in court.
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LMAO Reasonable Suspicion all that means is that a reasonable person would be suspicious ask any cop that can mean a lot of things and there certainly are ways around that as well. Yes I know some of the laws an educated man.
Listen I'm not telling you what to think you make your own assumptions I'm just telling you the holes are there and I'm letting you all decide.
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Definitely a concern....also did you know that police can copy the contents of an iphone from their policecar?
Check this: (warning: clearnet)
http://thenextweb.com/us/2011/04/20/us-police-can-copy-your-iphones-contents-in-under-two-minutes/
"It has emerged that Michigan State Police have been using a high-tech mobile forensics device that can extract information from over 3,000 models of mobile phone, potentially grabbing all media content from your iPhone in under two minutes.
The CelleBrite UFED is a handheld device that Michigan officers have been using since August 2008 to copy information from mobile phones belonging to motorists stopped for minor traffic violations. The device can circumvent password restrictions and extract existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags.......
Over here we tend to use a device called the CellDEK over here for portable analysis and have been for years - it's not as effective against smartphones as it used to be against dumb phones if they are locked.... ( clearnet: https://viaforensics.com/resources/white-papers/iphone-forensics/logicube-celldek/ )
However under the law in many countries you can be compelled to hand over your PIN/passphrase which then enables a pretty much full acquisition on nearly all current smartphones. As most of you will probably be aware, deleting things from smartphones (or almost any device containing flash memory) does not actually delete anything from the memory, it simply 'un-indexes' it. Only overwriting the memory will delete it (e.g. delete everything on the device then COMPLETELY fill the device with different content).
On a more extreme front, it has been possible in the past, and from time to time will be possible in the future, to exploit vulnerabilities in particular software releases of common smartphones (Android and iPhone spring to mind) in a number of ways to cause them to do something like capture video/audio or divulge their contents remotely. Most of these attacks however are active, require manual/semi-automated exploitation and importantly are detectable and therefore are seldom used. Some can be delivered by SMS, web pages - others require cell operator access and the ability to send control requests to the phone - some require your phone to be connected to a honeypot WiFI or GSM network. I have never seen any phone which continues to allow this after it has been switched off - although it would be possible it would require a modified firmware. Some phones can be made to full turn back on at a given time using built in alarm clock functions and these two can be a problem and bite you.
On a side note, I have noticed that almost every application you install these days feels compelled to send location information back to it's servers - everything from games to social media apps and everything in between. Turn off location services and just allow it by app. This is kind of an aside though because turning off location services doesn't stop your phone knowing and reporting it's position to the cell operator. Just something to watch out for as it significantly increases the number of entities who will be aware of your location.
Now active attacks using fake cell base stations, sometimes called IMSI catchers, are a different story and the use of these devices is much more widespread. Generally such techniques are used to locate subscribers without having ask the cell company to help, or more often to identify what handsets and SIM cards (subscribers) are in a particular location, again without having to have the cell company play ball. These devices usually work over a limited range - from 10 meters up to a few kilometers. It only takes a few seconds, perhaps 30 for good measure - then they can be switched off like it never happened.
These units tend to be portable so generally they are dumped in vehicles for ready deployment. So if you see a van outside your house one night which seems to be emanating strongly on GSM frequencies remember to knock on the window and say hello. :)
Some LEO even go as far as to use the above technique to intercept outgoing calls and potentially inject fake incoming calls, again effective over a limited physical area. Again it is used in tactical scenarios or where contacting the cell operator for assistance is not desirable/possible for whatever reason.
It is detectable but only 'at the time' and even then you have to be looking for it which 99.999% of targets are not. If you are ever interested in counter-measures or detection then let us know :)
Again if your phone is off, it is off and none of this shit will work. Trouble is phones are not that difficult to turn back on accidental, people forget to turn them off etc. The rule is do not take mobile phones of any description into secure environments.
Consider the story of Bob D Grower. Bob tends to his fields of Indica at least twice a week. The fields are miles from anywhere and nobody would find them in a million years. Trouble is Bob takes his phone with him when he visits. He doesn't make or take any calls but his location is none the less stored in the cell companies logs when he moves from cell to cell or periodically. One day some analyst decides to try and impress his boss and executes a query for all subscribers in cells where no other subscribers exist in those cells or some such, just for shits and giggles. Bobs phone shows up quite a few times. One social network graph/map later and Bob and his fields are a target for LEO.
Bob should have left his phone at home, turned on for good measure. If Bob really must take his phone with him then Bob really needs to turn it off BEFORE he gets in his car and NOT BEFORE he is very far clear of the location to be kept secret. Driving to the place to be kept secret and then turning your phone off is not going to cut it.
Consider the story of the undisclosed party. The undisclosed party like to meet up at an undisclosed location for undisclosed activities. The regional LEO wish to know who the party-goers are. The LEO cannot get the local cell provider company to play ball as they cannot issue such a broad warrant. The LEO roll out one of their GSM sniffer vans which parks up, powers up and rinses the IMEI and IMSI numbers of every turned on phone in a 1500m range - all within about 30 seconds. The LEO then just filter down to the handsets and subscriber numbers in the 100m radius they are interested in. The unique handset numbers and the subscriber are now captured, stored and entered into the LEOs (or their partners) intel databases. LEO can now approach the cell company for subscriber address/name details or just work with the data in their own social graphs and maps.
The party-goers should have left their phones at home because now the LEO party poopers have peeped on them with their phone sniffing shenanigans.
LEAVE THE PHONE AT HOME
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LMAO Reasonable Suspicion all that means is that a reasonable person would be suspicious ask any cop that can mean a lot of things and there certainly are ways around that as well. Yes I know some of the laws an educated man.
Listen I'm not telling you what to think you make your own assumptions I'm just telling you the holes are there and I'm letting you all decide.
I know what reasonable suspicion and reasonable doubt both are. That was my point. They have to be able (the DA) to convince a judge (and sometimes a jury) that that's reasonable. I know what the reasonable person standard in the US is.
Oh, and the police can do whatever the fuck they want. They can say you look shifty and that's "reasonable suspicion." But they have to be able to convince a judge it was, otherwise whatever they found not in plain sight is inadmissible.
Being arrested, indicted, and convicted are 3 different animals. Being arrested is meaningless without the other 2.
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+1 that shit
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Look, there are many ways that they can decrypt your phone, but there's no way that's going to happen on the side of the road.
Yes it is
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp
The Michigan State Police have a high-tech mobile forensics device that can be used to extract information from cell phones belonging to motorists stopped for minor traffic violations. CelleBrite UFED used by Michigan police found the device could grab all of the photos and video off of an iPhone within one-and-a-half minutes. The device works with 3000 different phone models and can even defeat password protections.
"Complete extraction of existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags," a CelleBrite brochure explains regarding the device's capabilities. "The Physical Analyzer allows visualization of both existing and deleted locations on Google Earth. In addition, location information from GPS devices and image geotags can be mapped on Google Maps."
They can always just outright lie where they got evidence from too: http://www.dw.de/dea-secretly-uses-nsa-to-prosecute-crime/a-17053762
Inb4 silly message forum lawyering and claims of "need a warrant" which will not save you from the iron fist of the state who no longer needs warrants, due to border security buffer zones, stop and frisk, anti-terrorism law mission creep and shady partnerships with intel agencies. This includes all states not just the US.
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Put on your tin foil hats people.
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As for the NSA helping the DEA with the phone conversations, that's been going on forever. But again, warrants are required to tap a phone. If you have a good lawyer (or even an average one, you can get the warrantless evidence connected thrown out.
Please stay away form the Kool-Aid
you don't get it. the DEA is lying in court where the evidence comes from to avoid needing warrants.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805
since 97 percent of federal cases, 94 percent of state drug cases are plea bargains none of this evidence is ever challenged.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/opinion/trial-judge-to-appeals-court-review-me.html
i guarantee your "good lawyer" will tell you to take the plea bargain of 5-15yrs instead of 100 years if you let it go to trial and roll the dice with the DEA lying to the court.
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Here is info direct from the forensics developer source. I thought this was the stuff of TV shows like ALIAS...
https://viaforensics.com/resources/white-papers/iphone-forensics/logicube-celldek/
https://viaforensics.com/resources/tools/burner-phone-forensics/
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As for the NSA helping the DEA with the phone conversations, that's been going on forever. But again, warrants are required to tap a phone. If you have a good lawyer (or even an average one, you can get the warrantless evidence connected thrown out.
Please stay away form the Kool-Aid
you don't get it. the DEA is lying in court where the evidence comes from to avoid needing warrants.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805
since 97 percent of federal cases, 94 percent of state drug cases are plea bargains none of this evidence is ever challenged.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/opinion/trial-judge-to-appeals-court-review-me.html
i guarantee your "good lawyer" will tell you to take the plea bargain of 5-15yrs instead of 100 years if you let it go to trial and roll the dice with the DEA lying to the court.
I understand that the majority of criminal cases in the US are adjudicated via plea bargain largely due to abuse of powers by prosecutors (i.e. overcharging). Since trials are always uncertain, people take the plea because they fear being found guilty and being subjected to a harsher sentence than they deserve. Also, many of those people are in fact guilty and some confess their guilt. I know a former public defender who was frequently dismayed that her clearly guilty clients insisted on her taking their cases to trial (and I'm talking municipal court where you never win).
That's not what I said, however. I said that if it were to come out in open court or in the discovery process that evidence is based on an illegal wiretap, that just about any lawyer, even Lionel Hutz, could get that evidence thrown out. It was based on the assumption that you have a strong enough claim to take the case to trial, which would generally be based on the advice of your attorney.
And none of this is new. This very old news coupled with a ton of paranoia.
Put aside whether or not the police can decrypt your phone on the side of the road without your consent (which would be subject to scrutiny if the case were to go to trial). There are very simple solutions to the problem if I accept your assertion:
Don't talk or text about drugs on your phone (and I say talk because unless you're using Silent Circle, your cell phone conversation is being transmitted unencrypted and can be intercepted easily).
Leave your phone at home so that you cannot be tracked by GPS/cell tower connections.
Use extreme caution when traveling with drugs in the car. Obey even the most minor of traffic laws. And leave nothing suspicious in plain sight.
Simple.