Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: tommygun on October 13, 2012, 01:54 am
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Just out of curiosity, how would you rate the drugs in order of risk, for buyer or seller. I'm sure it varies by state or federally but does it go like:
Heroin>Meth>Coke>Weed>Prescription. Or would prescription by higher than weed, etc?
Let me know your thoughts :)
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I believe in almost any case prescription would be less heavy, as they are legal to some.
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Heroin and Marijuana are Schedule I in the USA, carrying the heaviest penalties.
Cocaine and Amphetamines are Schedule II, carrying (subjectively) lighter penalties.
Drugs are placed on Schedules based on their approved medical uses, potential for abuse, and potential for dependence. Basically, the more likely a drug is to get you 'high', the more likely a drug is to get you hooked, and the less useful to the medical community, the further up the Schedule the drug moves. (I is the highest, V is the lowest.)
So heroin, which doctors don't use, which gets you super-high, and which can get you really fucking hooked, lands at the top....next to weed (this is obviously a subject for another day). Tramadol (not federally scheduled, but useful for an example), on the other hand, is widely prescribed to treat pain, doesn't get you very high, and is not especially likely to get you hooked, rounds out the bottom at Schedule V.
It's important to keep in mind that each drug has different amounts corresponding to possession and distribution, and that these aren't always equivalent to the dollar value of the product. For example, there are federal mandatory 5 year sentences for posession of 1 gram of LSD or 28 grams of crack. 1 gram of LSD is like 8000 doses, which gives it a street value ($10/dose) of around $80,000 dollars. an ounce of crack is has a street value ($100/gram) of about $3,000
This seems to make it much more risky to be a crack dealer than an LSD dealer, since they're both risking the same jail time, but the Mr. Crack has to sell 25 times more product (dollar-wise) to make the same amount of money. However, it gets more complicated when you factor in the fact the the sentencing guidelines are based on any MIXTURE containing the offending drug (**Guidelines have been revised for LSD dosage to reflect the unfairness of this sentencing guideline as it applies to LSD. The concept still applies to mixtures like pills and edibles, so I'm leaving it in, but I'm too lazy to re-type it.**) This means that when Mr. Crack gets busted with an ounce of crack, he gets charged with an ounce of crack posession (5 years), but when the schmuck with 3 sheets of ready-laid blotter paper gets busted, they count the weight of the PAPER when considering sentencing. So while he's only got 36mg of actual LSD on that paper, he's getting charged with posession of 1.5 grams of LSD, which is going to land him in jail for the same 5 years that Mr. Crack got, even though he had far less of the actual drug. Mr. Crack stood to make $3,000 from his sale, and L.S.D. McSchmuck stood to make the same $3,000. They have both assumed approximately the same amount of risk for the same amount of profit for the same amount of sales. Mister Crack learned that 'approximately' the same amount of risk does not mean 'the same amount of risk' as he slowly bled to death after being stabbed and robbed by crackheads. L.S.D McSchmuck fared slightly better, convincing an ugly Phish groupie to give him a hand-job in the massage tent.
This means that as a seller, you risk much steeper sentencing penalties when you're selling anything other than a pure form of whichever drug it is that's paying your bills. This makes selling MDMA pills, edibles, or anything on blotter riskier if you get busted. It also means that there's an incentive not to cut the product, as the weight of every cut will be counted towards the total drug weight at sentencing. Here's a quick list showing the weight needed to trigger the federal 5-year no-parole mandatory minimum, the street value of that amount, and the amount of money that you stand to make for every year you risk in jail. Prices are obviously variable. Penalties for posession of personal-use amounts is always 0-6 months in jail, except where noted. Keep in mind that these are federal penalties, and state laws may differ.
LSD: 1 gram (2500 doses at the DEA's revised 0.4mg/dose)
$25,000 ($10/hit)
$5000/year in jail (YIJ)
MARIJUANA: 100 kilograms (220 pounds)
$264,000 ($1,200/lb) (~3500oz.)
$52,800/YIJ
CRACK: 28 grams
$2,800 ($100/gm)
$560/YIJ
*Posession of 1.0gm receives 6-12 months.
POWDER COCAINE: 500 grams
$60,000 ($120/gm)
$12,000/YIJ
HEROIN: 100 grams
$10,000 ($100/gm)
$2,000/YIJ
*Posession of 1.0gm receives 6-12 months.
MDMA: 200 grams (800 pills at the DEA's 250mg/pill)
$10,000 or $8,000 ($50/gm or $10/pill)
$1,600-$2,000/YIJ
AMPHETAMINE & METHAMPHETAMINE: 5 grams (!)
AMPH: $200 ($40/gm) METH: $500 ($100/gm)
$40/YIJ $100/YIJ
*Posession of 1.0 gm receives 27-33 months. (Equal to 20KG of Marijuana)
DOB (just for fun): 40 grams
$80,000($5/hit 2.0mg)
$16,000/YIJ
For Sellers, I'd say the danger is:
Meth>Crack>Heroin>MDMA>Cocaine>LSD>Marijuana
If we're talking mostly about jail time risked vs. ability to turn a profit.
For buyers,
Amphetamine>Meth>Crack>Heroin>Cocaine>MDMA>LSD>Marijuana
If we're talking about jail time risked vs. ability to store personal-use amounts.
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Great information, thanks.
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Yup, thesearstower thats some good information. Are those federal penalties though? Cause it can vary greatly from state to state.
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Heroin and Marijuana are Schedule I in the USA, carrying the heaviest penalties.
Cocaine and Amphetamines are Schedule II, carrying (subjectively) lighter penalties.
Drugs are placed on Schedules based on their approved medical uses, potential for abuse, and potential for dependence. Basically, the more likely a drug is to get you 'high', the more likely a drug is to get you hooked, and the less useful to the medical community, the further up the Schedule the drug moves. (I is the highest, V is the lowest.)
So heroin, which doctors don't use, which gets you super-high, and which can get you really fucking hooked, lands at the top....next to weed (this is obviously a subject for another day). Tramadol (not federally scheduled, but useful for an example), on the other hand, is widely prescribed to treat pain, doesn't get you very high, and is not especially likely to get you hooked, rounds out the bottom at Schedule V.
It's important to keep in mind that each drug has different amounts corresponding to possession and distribution, and that these aren't always equivalent to the dollar value of the product. For example, there are federal mandatory 5 year sentences for posession of 1 gram of LSD or 28 grams of crack. 1 gram of LSD is like 8000 doses, which gives it a street value ($10/dose) of around $80,000 dollars. an ounce of crack is has a street value ($100/gram) of about $3,000
This seems to make it much more risky to be a crack dealer than an LSD dealer, since they're both risking the same jail time, but the Mr. Crack has to sell 25 times more product (dollar-wise) to make the same amount of money. However, it gets more complicated when you factor in the fact the the sentencing guidelines are based on any MIXTURE containing the offending drug (**Guidelines have been revised for LSD dosage to reflect the unfairness of this sentencing guideline as it applies to LSD. The concept still applies to mixtures like pills and edibles, so I'm leaving it in, but I'm too lazy to re-type it.**) This means that when Mr. Crack gets busted with an ounce of crack, he gets charged with an ounce of crack posession (5 years), but when the schmuck with 3 sheets of ready-laid blotter paper gets busted, they count the weight of the PAPER when considering sentencing. So while he's only got 36mg of actual LSD on that paper, he's getting charged with posession of 1.5 grams of LSD, which is going to land him in jail for the same 5 years that Mr. Crack got, even though he had far less of the actual drug. Mr. Crack stood to make $3,000 from his sale, and L.S.D. McSchmuck stood to make the same $3,000. They have both assumed approximately the same amount of risk for the same amount of profit for the same amount of sales. Mister Crack learned that 'approximately' the same amount of risk does not mean 'the same amount of risk' as he slowly bled to death after being stabbed and robbed by crackheads. L.S.D McSchmuck fared slightly better, convincing an ugly Phish groupie to give him a hand-job in the massage tent.
This means that as a seller, you risk much steeper sentencing penalties when you're selling anything other than a pure form of whichever drug it is that's paying your bills. This makes selling MDMA pills, edibles, or anything on blotter riskier if you get busted. It also means that there's an incentive not to cut the product, as the weight of every cut will be counted towards the total drug weight at sentencing. Here's a quick list showing the weight needed to trigger the federal 5-year no-parole mandatory minimum, the street value of that amount, and the amount of money that you stand to make for every year you risk in jail. Prices are obviously variable. Penalties for posession of personal-use amounts is always 0-6 months in jail, except where noted. Keep in mind that these are federal penalties, and state laws may differ.
LSD: 1 gram (2500 doses at the DEA's revised 0.4mg/dose)
$25,000 ($10/hit)
$5000/year in jail (YIJ)
MARIJUANA: 100 kilograms (220 pounds)
$264,000 ($1,200/lb) (~3500oz.)
$52,800/YIJ
CRACK: 28 grams
$2,800 ($100/gm)
$560/YIJ
*Posession of 1.0gm receives 6-12 months.
POWDER COCAINE: 500 grams
$60,000 ($120/gm)
$12,000/YIJ
HEROIN: 100 grams
$10,000 ($100/gm)
$2,000/YIJ
*Posession of 1.0gm receives 6-12 months.
MDMA: 200 grams (800 pills at the DEA's 250mg/pill)
$10,000 or $8,000 ($50/gm or $10/pill)
$1,600-$2,000/YIJ
AMPHETAMINE & METHAMPHETAMINE: 5 grams (!)
AMPH: $200 ($40/gm) METH: $500 ($100/gm)
$40/YIJ $100/YIJ
*Posession of 1.0 gm receives 27-33 months. (Equal to 20KG of Marijuana)
DOB (just for fun): 40 grams
$80,000($5/hit 2.0mg)
$16,000/YIJ
For Sellers, I'd say the danger is:
Meth>Crack>Heroin>MDMA>Cocaine>LSD>Marijuana
If we're talking mostly about jail time risked vs. ability to turn a profit.
For buyers,
Amphetamine>Meth>Crack>Heroin>Cocaine>MDMA>LSD>Marijuana
If we're talking about jail time risked vs. ability to store personal-use amounts.
Wow nice read thanks!
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Noticed you didn't have pills on here? pills < all else?
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For those curious, here's the link to federal sentencing guidelines.
CLEARNET: www.ussc.gov/Guidelines/2011_Guidelines/Manual_HTML/2d1_1.htm
The 'levels' referred to in the guidelines apply to jail terms detailed in the following document.
CLEARNET: www.ussc.gov/Guidelines/2011_Guidelines/Manual_HTML/5a_SenTab.htm
You can work out the specifics for any drug that you're looking for using these two.
The only pills I'd really be concerned about are Adderall, since they're sentenced exactly the same as Methamphetamine. It really depends, but if you're just carrying a few pills in your pocket, you're probably okay.
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Wow, heroin and weed on the same schedule? That's weird.
I'm not sure but I think out here heroin and cocaine are about the same. Weed under 5g = no charge. Prescriptions depend on what kind and/or if the person needs them him/herself.
Usually people can have some shit on them, as long as it's for own consumption.
I would like to hear about all these rules in the netherlands though.
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Mister Crack learned that 'approximately' the same amount of risk does not mean 'the same amount of risk' as he slowly bled to death after being stabbed and robbed by crackheads. L.S.D McSchmuck fared slightly better, convincing an ugly Phish groupie to give him a hand-job in the massage tent.
Ok, this is likely the funniest damn thing I've read on SR forums.
Thanks thesearstower!
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Great post with a ton of info!! Off to make a business plan! Ill hit you back in 5 if things go wrong!
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Off to make a business plan!
I think it is something that is essential for vendors to keep in mind. If you're using the mail, it's likely the Feds are going to be the ones busting you. It's not a the worst idea to know how much weight is going to get you pinched for how long. Vendors should also be honest with themselves about just what sort of risks they're actually taking when they casually decide to sell their roommates's Adderall prescription to make a few bucks. There's serious risk there, and vendors have to be very careful about how they conduct their business, especially if they're facing these sorts of penalties. I would certainly never consider dealing amph or meth after this. It's far too risky. However, knowing that Marijuana and Mushrooms are weighted equally, I'd be a lot more inclined to cultivate and sell these drugs. I'm pretty risk-averse, however. At least when it comes to the G-Men. When it comes to taking drugs and riding motorcycles, no one I know is going to call me safety-conscious. ;)
(As you might be able to tell,) Amphetamine is my drug of choice. After learning about how stiff the penalties are for posession (State and local), I've stopped carrying capsules on me. It's not worth risking a year in jail just to have 50mg of Amph with me in case I decide I want to get spun. I also make sure that I keep only small amounts in my home, and keep my larger stash off-site. And if I positively must carry, it's relatively trivial to empty a few capsules filled with Echinacea or Goldenseal, mix my Amph in to the herb, and re-fill the capsule. The pills will still get you high, and it's almost certain that you can use the help from whatever dubious health benefits the herbs claim to have. Obviously I'm only able to take the capsules orally, but one is you're trying to have a functional speed habit, one probably shouldn't be snorting them anyway.
If the cops catch you, they'll take one look at your unwashed, disheveled clothes, your aura of BO, and your purse full of supplements and accuse you of being a dirty new-age hippie. As hurtful as that might be, it's far preferable to them accusing you of being a drug-addicted drug dealer, which is what you are.
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One thing that isn't really covered here is the risk for prescription pill vendor. For example, I would "assume" that opiates are stiffer penalty than benzos? Or maybe it doesn't matter?
But also I wonder, what is the tipping point for qty. Is a fed even going to waste their time if you are selling 5 at a time?
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Because you're curious, here are the amounts for prescription meds necessary to trigger the 5yr mandatory minimum.
(This is for actual amount of drug contained in the pill, not the weight of the pills themselves.)
OXYCODONE: 50 grams
HYDROCODONE: 200 grams
MORPHINE: 200 grams
METHADONE: 200 grams
HYDROMORPHONE (DILAUDID): 40 grams
Benzodiazepines are schedule IV. 16 units (pills) are equal to 1 gram of marijuana, so you're going to need a whole fucking lot of them to get in serious trouble for posession. Many thousands.
Given the Schedule II or lower rating of prescription drugs (because of their legitimate medical use), there's a lot less risk if you're dealing. You'd need 1250 40mg Oxys to trigger the 5yr mandatory minimum. That's a lot of Oxy, and amounts are similar for all prescription opiates.
The only exception (and I'll say this again, because it's worth saying) is Adderall and generic amphetamine/dextroamphetamine. Amphetamine and methamphetamine are exactly the same as far as the feds are concerned. This means that posession of even 35 30mg Adderall can get you 2 years in jail. 170 30mg Adderall will trigger the federal 5yr minimum. Given the higher dosages for amphetamine vs. methamphetamine, this means that it's actually more risky to deal Adderall than it is to deal meth. Maybe this is part of the reason that it's so expensive on SR.
It's 'safer' to deal pills than other illicits, so long as you're speaking only of the risk of jail time. How 'safe' you actually are has more to do with your OpSec than what you're dealing.
TL;DR: You're safer dealing prescription pills than other illicits. Opiates are more dangerous than Benzos, but you're going to need a lot (thousands) of either to get into serious trouble. Adderall/amphetamine is the exception, with stiff penalties for even a handful of pills.
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Thanks for the info Searstower! They renamed that tower by the way :) Good stuff, appreciate you taking your time to provide detail.