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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: c13hqPX7d on August 07, 2013, 02:08 pm

Title: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: c13hqPX7d on August 07, 2013, 02:08 pm
In the light of recent threads, I wanted to get this discussion going. It probably already exists, but here's a new thread anyways.

First off, I would consider myself suicidal. I attempted suicide three times. I nearly killed myself unintentionally once with a nasty benzo+alc mix... just got out of hands. I have a bipolar disorder (URC), so I am aware that my thoughts and actions are always based on my current mindset (which can change pretty fast).
I always try to approach the idea of suicide in a humanist way, as an act of total personal freedom that nobody should interfere with. Suicide is not bad, or weak, or cowardish in any way. It's tragic to those that stay behind.

I would really love to start a discussion with you guys here. Please show me your point of view on the matter, so I can understand the things that I don't think :)

Cheers and stay safe, c13
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: DanDanTheIceCreamMan on August 07, 2013, 02:37 pm
I think some people look down upon suicide because they feel it is the easy way out. Meaning all of YOUR pain and suffering ends but all the people who cared and loved you that are left behind, their suffering just begins. I don't really have a side in this. I feel people should be able to do whatever they want. If you want to kill yourself you have that right.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: paxpax on August 07, 2013, 02:41 pm
I don't think most people view suicide as bad or wrong but with compassion for and an understanding of the value of the gift of life. Life itself is so precious and to throw away or destroy such an amazing gift is unthinkable to many. Often people who are considering suicide are doing so impulsively with out any long term view for what the future could hold, or even what future they could create for themselves. Once you give this gift up you can never change your mind and it is viewed as tragic.

I know there are some extenuating circumstances, those that must live with intense physical or emotional pain. I understand why some would want to escape this. I pray never to have to fathom such a decision. However for those who suffer, relief could be right around the corner in forms other than death, whether in the form of medical science or a companion, one never knows.

Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: findingcure on August 07, 2013, 04:24 pm
I once thought seriously doing suicide when i got my first Ptsd - I felt so bad. But even then i couldn't. Something inside me kept me alive like today as well. I just know i'm too strong to die.
However i see it as personal right to choose whether you live or die. If i would be pain that cant be removed or tied to bed paralyzed i would allow me to be killed or do it myself. Point of life is to live not slow death. It's not weak to wish for death if it's from right reasons. And no one cant tell you those reasons - you yourself choose.

For me, as long as i feel there is possibilities, i try to get there. And when im mentally ill, like now, i just cant kill myself because i feel i dont see the whole picture(wrong reasons). When i had my first Ptsd, which in the end was worse than this(i believe i survive), i was afraid of death because i felt that what ever i was afraid in life, it's gonna get me for sure in death. I dont know what happens after death, but i don't want to risk. But if i deal my problems alive i can embrace death when it comes.
I also feel like the person, who started my sickness, is pulling the strings if i choose to kill myself and i want to be 100% behind my actions.
And in my life there has been people, who have by their care showed me that im worthy of life and love. This is most important thing that makes me survive. May sound cliché, but true. But i also understand that i dont live for them but myself(with their help).

Since you are sick down with bipolar disorder, i cant say what would be right choice for you and i'm sure you have hard time to decide yourself. As long as there is enough good thing in life, it's worth of a shot.

All things that i mentioned are from my picture of the world. You have yours and make decisions based on that  :).
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: c13hqPX7d on August 07, 2013, 04:56 pm
Quote from: DanDan
I think some people look down upon suicide because they feel it is the easy way out. Meaning all of YOUR pain and suffering ends but all the people who cared and loved you that are left behind, their suffering just begins.

Sounds like doubled ego(centr)ism. The one who commits suicide acts egoistic by ending his/her life and not thinking/caring about the ones he/she leaves behind. The ones who stay behind act egoistic by insisting to have had a high value and/or importance in the life of the deceased.
Do I get your idea?

Quote from: paxpax
Life itself is so precious and to throw away or destroy such an amazing gift is unthinkable to many.

Well put :)
Although I do not agree with the term "gift of life". It implies so many things I do not believe in (i.e. the existence of someone/something who is able to 'give life' or that one must be thankful to be alive).
But I agree with you about impulsively commited suicides. These are a real problem and a tragedy in my opinion. There are distinctions to be made. Every suicide is unique and has it's own story.
Impulsive suicides are mistakes like any other you can make. The only difference is that it's the last mistake one will make (and therefore you can't regret it or try to change things again).
I like your last three words, 'one never knows'. So simple yet so true. ANYTHING could happen to make a change :)




I also wanted to say another thing about my alc+benzo OD, maybe it helps someone. Although I do fancy the idea of being dead *sometimes*, this was one of the most miserable experiences of my life. I was asleep for two days, and when I woke up I wasn't sure whether I was still alive or not. It literally took a few hours for me to realize that I'm still here (and weeks for my head to come clear again).
When I think about it now, I'm so glad that I survived. Somehow the idea of an unintentional OD that should kill you seems way worse to me than willingly committing suicide. I cannot describe the feeling I have when I think about it, but it definetely changed something in my brain. I don't drink since the incident for example; and I think differently than before.
All this made me appreciate life so much more. When you actually realize that death is not a big thing in essence and can practically happen anywhere, anytime, you stop seeing it as the 'end' of life if that makes sense... It made me more careful and appreciative of all the little things that happen to me and it made me somewhat realize what life is about.
I know this is a little off-topic, but I just wanted to show my motives and ideas about death, and my first-hand experience seemed adequate, although it's not about the morals and ethics of suicide.


Thanks for the input!

c13



Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: DanDanTheIceCreamMan on August 07, 2013, 05:07 pm
Quote from: DanDan
I think some people look down upon suicide because they feel it is the easy way out. Meaning all of YOUR pain and suffering ends but all the people who cared and loved you that are left behind, their suffering just begins.

Sounds like doubled ego(centr)ism. The one who commits suicide acts egoistic by ending his/her life and not thinking/caring about the ones he/she leaves behind. The ones who stay behind act egoistic by insisting to have had a high value and/or importance in the life of the deceased.
Do I get your idea?

Sort of. I wouldn't consider people grieving over their loved ones to be egocentric. I'm sure there are cases where this is true, but I'm thinking about the people who genuinely care about their loved ones. If it were your own mother who commit suicide you might be happy that she is no longer suffering but at the same time you would be very sad that she is no longer around. I guess now that I'm writing it I'm starting to see how someone feeling bad about someone else ending their life can be egocentric.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: eskimoplea7 on August 07, 2013, 07:33 pm
Because you wont be paying taxes anymore haha
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: TMan99 on August 07, 2013, 07:58 pm
I have been depressed my whole life, I guess it is something with generics. But I would not attempet suicide in the near future. I did try to kill myself once when I was fucking 13. I don't know if that counts. I tried to cut through my neck with a knife, didn't work and as soon as it started bleeding I stopped.

I am in my late teens now and I think about it but couldn't do it for the few that actually love me and if I ended my life it would ruin theirs. I have definitley thought about it in depth and been pretty close in the past.

But often if someone kills themself everyone is like oh he/she was a coward how could they do that blah blah blah. I mean what the fuck? Someone is only as good as they feel and no one has the right to call them a coward for killing themself. For some people the pain is to much.

If someone is not acting on instinct and wants to end it then they have the right to, the real travesty (tragedy - what the difference?) is the pain that they would have to go through if they continued to live.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: jackofspades on August 07, 2013, 08:05 pm
Because staying behind ensures that youre going to have to endure additional pain as you fo on through life.

I think that suicide should be allowed but that a doctors approval should be needed, because suicide is a tricky subject.

I loved the movie with Al Pacino in it i think it was called "you dont know jack" or something and based on a true story.
I would recommend that movie to anyone interested in the topic of suicide.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Monty Cantsin on August 07, 2013, 08:11 pm
It is frowned upon in the West but not in places like Japan,check out the documentary on the Suicide Forest of Japan on vice.com
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Praetorian on August 07, 2013, 11:07 pm
Sadly, due to society, when you die... people are going to have a funeral for you.  Funeral burials cost $7,000-$10,000.  And that's the low end.  Plus, depending on how you killed yourself, there's also usually a bit of an investigation, and definitely a lot of clean-up.  Even if you don't blow your brains all over the wall behind you, or fill up a bathtub with your blood -you will still shit and piss, and possibly foam at the mouth/vomit on your way out.

            No matter how you cut it; it's just not something that's fun, or practical for anyone.  You were given a life; and even if it sucks - life is suck.  I do believe, if you really 'want' or 'need' to, you should be allowed to kill yourself.  And I don't abide by any religious value that 'damns' suicidal people to some eternity of pain and horror.  But, I do believe in Life more.

             I don't think people should kill themselves over things that don't prevent them from living.  Nor do I think anyone under the age of 25 should intentionally kill themselves, simply because of how your brain works when it's being rigged up into it's adult form. 

                                               I was suicidal from 13-22.  And then I grew up.

I would kill myself if I lost my sight and hearing and at least 2 limbs.  Or if I were older and felt that life just sucked; there is a point where we all 'know'  "It's only downhill from here" ...
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: GlenRunciter on August 07, 2013, 11:59 pm
Suicide is always an attractive option lingering on the periphery of our consciousness, especially when things look hopeless.  But having experienced the suicide of a very close friend, college roommate, etc. at the age of 22.....and also living in a family which was stigmatized thru several generations by a suicide (my father's father committed suicide back in the early 60's....in the house where he lived with his four young daughters and wife.   My Dad had moved out of the home by that point.)   These sorts of family tragedies are really hard on the survivors...and like I said, they ripple thru the generations....I never knew this man, but his mental illness could be my mental illness...sometimes these things are inherited and sometimes they skip a generation.    Back in the early 60's they gave electroshock therapy to him, and I think it made things worse.   

My college roommate went from being a gung-ho go-getter, hard charging scholar during the week, binge drinker on the weekends...very task and goal oriented...partly thru my influence and just being in college he started smoking weed and taking mushrooms and I could see the slow deterioration...at age 22 he was an alcoholic wreck, diagnosed with bipolar disorder. On a whim he decided to join the Army (not in his character, at all), (and how did he pass the competency tests?) .  He came home after Basic Training and blew his brains out.    These sorts of sudden, violent acts are very damaging to the survivors...they leave so many questions....my friend refused to take his bi-polar medication and I believe he fell into a funk and just did it.   My grandfather I never knew never had a chance in the early 60's....given the state of mental health treatment.    These were both very sick people.

I think a person has to be mentally ill in order to go thru with the act of suicide.  A normally depressed, or melancholic person usually has the rationale and sense of conscience still within them that would prevent them from performing this most selfish act.   On top of that, no matter how nice it might feel to exit the pain of this existence...to be part of the void...it is giving up.  It's a cowardly deed.    It's saying NO to life...when we should be saying YES to life, and FUCK YOU to life, saying "I'm still going to persevere and see this through, and everybody else can just go screw off."      You win the war, when you're 87 years old and people are muttering behind your back, "Why won't that miserable curmudgeon just DIE already!"   That's victory.....if you can make it to that point....you won!!!!    Shaking your fist at existence and saying "bring it on you son of a bitch!"     That's living and being heroic !!!!     ;)
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: RealJohnnyDepp on August 08, 2013, 01:40 am
I would never commit suicide my friend....When I am having troubling times, I look a upon the Lord my Saviour for guidance/help.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: c13hqPX7d on August 08, 2013, 03:59 pm
Quote from: jackofspades
I think that suicide should be allowed but that a doctors approval should be needed, because suicide is a tricky subject.

Thats an interesting approach... so you mean like a mental check-up?
Gonna watch the movie you recommended, thanks.


Quote from: Monty Cantsin
It is frowned upon in the West but not in places like Japan,check out the documentary on the Suicide Forest of Japan on vice.com

Good to know! I was assuming a western point of view, didn't even think about different cultures yet. "Suicide forest" sounds strange and interesting at the same time :)



I'll be back later today to write some more... Thanks everyone for the input.

Oh, and RealJohnnyDepp, enjoy your trip.


Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Mr Candy on August 09, 2013, 12:36 am
I think my main problem with suicide is that it is irreversible.  Pretty much any decision in life you can go back on, try and fix, cope with, or see in a better light.  With suicide, this cannot be done.  Who knows how many people kicked the chair, and as soon as that noose tightened around their neck, just for that split second, immediately regretted the decision they had made. 

Of course I think a lot of our views on suicide definitely are influenced by society, like most things, like how it was illegal to commit suicide in the UK for a long time, and a traditionally Christian society.  Of course if we were all Ancient Japanese we would be saying completely different things and discussing how it can be justified

Eg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: realdeals on August 09, 2013, 12:57 am
I had some suicidal thoughts to when I had a nasty benzo withdrawel.
You sound like my best friend that died 2 weeks ago. He was just like you. (he died from valium , alcohol and heroin inject mix) it was suicide.  (he tried it multiple times before to)
plz get help buddy :) Life can be fun to!
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: RealJohnnyDepp on August 09, 2013, 04:40 pm
I had some suicidal thoughts to when I had a nasty benzo withdrawel.
You sound like my best friend that died 2 weeks ago. He was just like you. (he died from valium , alcohol and heroin inject mix) it was suicide.  (he tried it multiple times before to)
plz get help buddy :) Life can be fun to!

SUICIDE THOUGHTS FROM BENZO WITHDRAWEL..HOW MUCH WAS YOU TAKING?
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: realdeals on August 09, 2013, 08:50 pm
20-30mg every day for more then 1 year :)
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: wavelength on August 09, 2013, 09:54 pm
I'm sure this has already been said, but I would never commit suicide because I had a loved one that did, and it killed me inside for quite a while....

it really hurts the people around you.... they will want to know why, they will blame themselves because they "could have done something to stop it", and they will never be able to speak to that loved one again....

its just painful for everyone around you really.
I've considered suicide a few times but once I actually had someone close to me do it I realized that it was a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: RealJohnnyDepp on August 10, 2013, 02:44 am
20-30mg every day for more then 1 year :)

i been taking 4-6 mg a day for 2 weeks...do you think I'll get any sorts of withdrawals?
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: GlenRunciter on August 10, 2013, 03:54 am
I would start to taper it down, if you can.  Two weeks though shouldn't cause you too much discomfort if you cold turkey.   You're still within the safety window, from my experience.  I would definitely taper it down by a mg every couple of days until you're down to 0.   But I know that's not always realistic.   You could probably last another week and still cold turkey and be fine.   4-5-6 weeks straight at that dosage level though....you would definitely want to taper down gradually.       ;)      Take it easy
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: metacontxt on August 10, 2013, 05:35 am
"I always try to approach the idea of suicide in a humanist way, as an act of total personal freedom that nobody should interfere with. Suicide is not bad, or weak, or cowardish in any way. It's tragic to those that stay behind."

And also for the people who discover what's left of you. I remember reading about how some dude had hung himself from a tree next to a playground. What a fucker. I've no doubt he had his issues, but what if some kid found him? Also people who jump off tall buildings and freeway overpasses...that's pretty wrong, too. If you're going to do it, I'd hope you'd do it in a way that ensures the only people who see your deceased state are first responders and professionals who deal with this kind of thing for a living.

And I do think suicide's cowardly if you have children that you have some kind of parental relationship with. In that case, man up, get help, whatever - but don't fuck your kid's life up by killing yourself. That is taking the easy way out. You don't have to see how your decision might affect your child.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: R90 on August 10, 2013, 06:29 am
Is assisted suicide an option discussed in the US? In Switzerland there is a clinic where you can pay to have a lethal shot of morphine, then drift away surrounded by your loved ones. I don't know how they vet applicants, but I assume there's a pretty thorough process to make sure you're sure of your choice - not like you can change your mind! Not sure if they do that anywhere else in the world.

Agreed that suicides like father hanging himself in house with wife and kids (I know someone who experienced that horror) must be a carefully considered final fuck you to those left behind - surely nobody could be oblivious of the ongoing hell that would cause? That kind of inconsideration is a truly selfish act.

In general I don't believe suicide is always the coward's way out. I think it can take a lot of bravery to take that decision. But every story is different, can't judge them all the same. I guess suicide is frowned upon in western society as it generally perpetuates a cycle of misery.

The stigma must have been tough too when it was illegal, or a devout catholic lining up to commit an ultimate mortal sin facing eternal damnation. Talk about extra pressure at a difficult time!
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: R90 on August 10, 2013, 06:33 am
"I always try to approach the idea of suicide in a humanist way, as an act of total personal freedom that nobody should interfere with. Suicide is not bad, or weak, or cowardish in any way. It's tragic to those that stay behind."



Who said that? Sums it up perfectly.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: realdeals on August 10, 2013, 07:56 pm
20-30mg every day for more then 1 year :)

i been taking 4-6 mg a day for 2 weeks...do you think I'll get any sorts of withdrawals?

Not really.. I think a withdrawel only starts after 1 mounth. Stop with it trust me ;) its not worth it at all!
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: thedopestjunkie on August 12, 2013, 11:51 am
Good Topic. I have also been suicidal for much of my life and strangely enough a lot of my heroes have committed suicide from artists like Van Gogh to musicians like Kurt Cobain, well i guess that one is up for debate, to great writers like David Foster Wallace. On the one hand I felt strongly for most of my life that I was certain that I wanted to be the one to end my life so that I could know how it would end. The thought of not having time to say goodbye to loved ones or getting torn asunder by a bus used to scare me into thinking that suicide was a decent option for me.

However, things have been progressively getting better in my life, and I am so grateful for the loved ones I do have, that there is now no way I would ever abandoned them by committing suicide. Also for someone who doesnt have much to show for my life in general, other than years of drug abuse, Im eager to accomplish some major goals before my time is up. I started a bucket list, that helped to elevate my mood greatly and I have been less suicidal because of it. More importantly, this site gives me a much needed outlet to share my experience and listen to others share their experience. I have not only become non-suicidal since joining this community, my quality of life has improved because some of the members of this community are extremely thoughtful and helpful, something I never expected so I guess I must have been as close minded about addiction as most people to think that this site only has drugs to offer. There is much more and for once we are organized, just as we should be, disenfranchised and all. Stripped of our rights. But we will win the battle.

As far as Japan is concerned, Ive always had a hard time understanding suicide to be honorable and still do. IMO, if you are ready to die, why not sacrifice yourself for the greater good somehow. Donate your body to science or jump on a fucking landmine to save others wouldnt that be better than just giving up. In the end I think thats the major problem with suicide, anyone who is not terminally ill really is just giving up on the same damn life we all have to suffer through. To me thats weakness. I guess in a sense Im a suicidal success story and will continue to be for the rest of my life since I did not give up. I feel pretty damn good about that and only hope that I can help others to come to the same realization so that they may enjoy the lives theyve got.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: ondine on August 12, 2013, 08:45 pm
I'm sure this has already been said, but I would never commit suicide because I had a loved one that did, and it killed me inside for quite a while....

it really hurts the people around you.... they will want to know why, they will blame themselves because they "could have done something to stop it", and they will never be able to speak to that loved one again....

its just painful for everyone around you really.
I've considered suicide a few times but once I actually had someone close to me do it I realized that it was a terrible idea.

Exactly, suicide can be justified through the ego, but even if you can't find a reason to live for yourself, at least try to be aware that your suicide will greatly harm those around you. I know because I went through a similar scenario recently. For the depressed, or those with substance abuse problems, it can be all too easy to forget about how other people may care for your happiness and well being. In fact, I would think that if you can begin to recognize how you taking your own life would hurt those that love you, then you may start to realize just how much you mean to the world, and maybe get started on the road to recovery.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: DrunkenAfficianado on August 12, 2013, 10:17 pm
 8) I challenge any sentient being considering suicide to get a tremendous amount of laughing gas NO2, and to plan on six to fifteen gas therapy sessions of 150 to 400 whippets at a time over the next year, and do those with the total intention of killing yourself, but examine your plan and the reasons for it on the nitrous.

Then make your decision.  I did.

Because I DIDN'T commit suicide, I got to experience the invention and beauty of the Silk Road.

Fuck Yeah.
 8)
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: ondine on August 12, 2013, 11:09 pm
WHY KILL YOURSELF WHEN U CAN SILKROAD??
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Vanquish on August 12, 2013, 11:18 pm
Good Topic. I have also been suicidal for much of my life and strangely enough a lot of my heroes have committed suicide from artists like Van Gogh to musicians like Kurt Cobain, well i guess that one is up for debate, to great writers like David Foster Wallace. On the one hand I felt strongly for most of my life that I was certain that I wanted to be the one to end my life so that I could know how it would end. The thought of not having time to say goodbye to loved ones or getting torn asunder by a bus used to scare me into thinking that suicide was a decent option for me.

However, things have been progressively getting better in my life, and I am so grateful for the loved ones I do have, that there is now no way I would ever abandoned them by committing suicide. Also for someone who doesn't have much to show for my life in general, other than years of drug abuse, I'm eager to accomplish some major goals before my time is up. I started a bucket list, that helped to elevate my mood greatly and I have been less suicidal because of it. More importantly, this site gives me a much needed outlet to share my experience and listen to others share their experience. I have not only become non-suicidal since joining this community, my quality of life has improved because some of the members of this community are extremely thoughtful and helpful, something I never expected so I guess I must have been as close minded about addiction as most people to think that this site only has drugs to offer. There is much more and for once we are organized, just as we should be, disenfranchised and all. Stripped of our rights. But we will win the battle.

+1, well said.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: spanky loc on August 12, 2013, 11:39 pm
I think a good part of the general opposition comes from the view that life is precious. Whether religious or atheist most people take the view, at least subconsciously, that life is a gift.

I believe that the obvious pain that suicide causes to the deceased's surviving family and friends also contributes to the stigma against it. There's not point in wondering "why???" if your friend gets hit by a car, after all, accidents happen. But when someone takes their own life, there will be people asking "why???" for decades, for sure.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: thedopestjunkie on August 13, 2013, 12:01 am
:)
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: spanky loc on August 14, 2013, 09:30 am
Good Topic. I have also been suicidal for much of my life and strangely enough a lot of my heroes have committed suicide from artists like Van Gogh to musicians like Kurt Cobain, well i guess that one is up for debate, to great writers like David Foster Wallace. On the one hand I felt strongly for most of my life that I was certain that I wanted to be the one to end my life so that I could know how it would end. The thought of not having time to say goodbye to loved ones or getting torn asunder by a bus used to scare me into thinking that suicide was a decent option for me.

However, things have been progressively getting better in my life, and I am so grateful for the loved ones I do have, that there is now no way I would ever abandoned them by committing suicide. Also for someone who doesnt have much to show for my life in general, other than years of drug abuse, Im eager to accomplish some major goals before my time is up. I started a bucket list, that helped to elevate my mood greatly and I have been less suicidal because of it. More importantly, this site gives me a much needed outlet to share my experience and listen to others share their experience. I have not only become non-suicidal since joining this community, my quality of life has improved because some of the members of this community are extremely thoughtful and helpful, something I never expected so I guess I must have been as close minded about addiction as most people to think that this site only has drugs to offer. There is much more and for once we are organized, just as we should be, disenfranchised and all. Stripped of our rights. But we will win the battle.

As far as Japan is concerned, Ive always had a hard time understanding suicide to be honorable and still do. IMO, if you are ready to die, why not sacrifice yourself for the greater good somehow. Donate your body to science or jump on a fucking landmine to save others wouldnt that be better than just giving up. In the end I think thats the major problem with suicide, anyone who is not terminally ill really is just giving up on the same damn life we all have to suffer through. To me thats weakness. I guess in a sense Im a suicidal success story and will continue to be for the rest of my life since I did not give up. I feel pretty damn good about that and only hope that I can help others to come to the same realization so that they may enjoy the lives theyve got.

Did not read this post before I posted earlier, but it's a good one. Totally agree with most of your points!
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: ProudCannabian on August 14, 2013, 12:38 pm
I haven't read anything but your first post.  Just because I want to get this out as it's fresh in my mind.

Life can be tough, and mental disorders can wreak havok on what is already a difficult, uphill climb.
Suicide is nowhere near as fun as drugs, sex, love, food, entertainment or friendship.
There is always time to die, we will all die eventually.  Today or ten years from now.
You can say, I'm only here for a short time and it won't matter in the grand scheme of things if I am gone - but you effect the people around you.  You are effecting all of us in this thread in various ways, right now.

There is a chance, a chance, that life is not the end of your existence - but it is almost definite that you are living life right now.  Why chance nothing, undescribable something, or a torturous afterlife, when those answers will come in their own time.

Have you ever eaten a waffle in the Alps?
Have you ever been hang-gliding?
Have you ever hiked through the wilderness?

There are so many experiences to try.  Unless you are stuck in a whelchair, and even if you are, you should at least try to make what life you have left interesting and/or fun.
Going to kill yourself regardless of what we all say here?  Fine.  Do it, but at least experience something out of the ordinary before you do.  If you just up and leave your home, and start walking/driving in a random direction, with no intention of going back, you will either be changed, or find some novel way to die, like at the hand of a pack of wolves, or falling asleep at night in the freezing cold of the desert.

See, if you don't have the balls to do that, I don't think you are killing yourself for yourself, but more to "punish" those around you.  They might be sad for a time, but they will move on, and when they die, it will not matter as you will be forgotten (as we all are after three generations, unless we do something amazing).  So punishing others is not really a good reason either.  If you are only going to kill yourself to explore the next realm, or rid yourself of pain, get your ass out there and meet some bears or swim to Cuba or something.

If it's purely due to your mental disorder, tell your doctor your thoughts, honestly, and he will drug you up with some nice stuff, or take you off the whacked out meds he may have already prescribed.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: thedopestjunkie on August 14, 2013, 12:40 pm
Good Topic. I have also been suicidal for much of my life and strangely enough a lot of my heroes have committed suicide from artists like Van Gogh to musicians like Kurt Cobain, well i guess that one is up for debate, to great writers like David Foster Wallace. On the one hand I felt strongly for most of my life that I was certain that I wanted to be the one to end my life so that I could know how it would end. The thought of not having time to say goodbye to loved ones or getting torn asunder by a bus used to scare me into thinking that suicide was a decent option for me.

However, things have been progressively getting better in my life, and I am so grateful for the loved ones I do have, that there is now no way I would ever abandoned them by committing suicide. Also for someone who doesnt have much to show for my life in general, other than years of drug abuse, Im eager to accomplish some major goals before my time is up. I started a bucket list, that helped to elevate my mood greatly and I have been less suicidal because of it. More importantly, this site gives me a much needed outlet to share my experience and listen to others share their experience. I have not only become non-suicidal since joining this community, my quality of life has improved because some of the members of this community are extremely thoughtful and helpful, something I never expected so I guess I must have been as close minded about addiction as most people to think that this site only has drugs to offer. There is much more and for once we are organized, just as we should be, disenfranchised and all. Stripped of our rights. But we will win the battle.

As far as Japan is concerned, Ive always had a hard time understanding suicide to be honorable and still do. IMO, if you are ready to die, why not sacrifice yourself for the greater good somehow. Donate your body to science or jump on a fucking landmine to save others wouldnt that be better than just giving up. In the end I think thats the major problem with suicide, anyone who is not terminally ill really is just giving up on the same damn life we all have to suffer through. To me thats weakness. I guess in a sense Im a suicidal success story and will continue to be for the rest of my life since I did not give up. I feel pretty damn good about that and only hope that I can help others to come to the same realization so that they may enjoy the lives theyve got.

Did not read this post before I posted earlier, but it's a good one. Totally agree with most of your points!
Thanks brother!
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: PerfectScans on August 14, 2013, 01:00 pm
its a choice and an option.

and no one should be judged for trying it or doing it for whatever their reasons.

For some, be it mental or physical, life is not really so wonderful and why should anyone have the right to force someone to live a life they do not want to live ?

simples.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Juggernog on August 14, 2013, 01:28 pm
WHY KILL YOURSELF WHEN U CAN SILKROAD??

^^
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: neplusultra on August 14, 2013, 10:36 pm
I'm on board with suicide being an immense burden placed on the loved ones left behind. Other than that... death in general is part of the cycle of life. And you in fact are a dreamless sleeper who occasionally and momentarily achieves awakeness, and that awakeness is the consciousness of an Earth that could only achieve awareness through embodiment.  IMO ;D
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Juggernog on August 15, 2013, 05:11 am
Life is the shit! Especially when you have silk road! I was actually going through a mid-life crisis before I found the road. Partly because I have outsourced my dopamine to pain pills for many years, then all of a sudden I could not find pills ANYWHERE local. I was ready to end life, but then I stumble on SR. Someone tell me it was meant to be!
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Vanquish on August 15, 2013, 05:23 am
You can say, I'm only here for a short time and it won't matter in the grand scheme of things if I am gone - but you effect the people around you.  You are effecting all of us in this thread in various ways, right now.

Ultimately one of the biggest reasons to live.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: bbd82584 on August 15, 2013, 02:48 pm
I just wanted to adress the question in the subject posed by the OP.  I think suicide freaks people out because when somebody is suicidal, it's pretty clear that they are no longer willing to adhere to basic, unspoken laws that make living around other people practical, relatively safe, and beneficial for all parties.  One of these unspoken laws (unspoken I guess in the way that they are a given in most all situations) is that your life, your will and need to actually exist, is the MOST important need there is.  When somebody is no longer operating with that in mind, it becomes valid for others to really question how much respect you have for THEIR need to be alive.  Nobody wants to be pulled under by a drowning man.  I don't think most thinking people really believe that a person shouldn't have "a right to decide when their ride ends", I think its more of a question of "how is this person going to behave now that they aren't playing by the rules".  I think that's what really makes people uneasy about suicide.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: findingcure on August 15, 2013, 04:10 pm
I just wanted to adress the question in the subject posed by the OP.  I think suicide freaks people out because when somebody is suicidal, it's pretty clear that they are no longer willing to adhere to basic, unspoken laws that make living around other people practical, relatively safe, and beneficial for all parties.  One of these unspoken laws (unspoken I guess in the way that they are a given in most all situations) is that your life, your will and need to actually exist, is the MOST important need there is.  When somebody is no longer operating with that in mind, it becomes valid for others to really question how much respect you have for THEIR need to be alive.  Nobody wants to be pulled under by a drowning man.  I don't think most thinking people really believe that a person shouldn't have "a right to decide when their ride ends", I think its more of a question of "how is this person going to behave now that they aren't playing by the rules".  I think that's what really makes people uneasy about suicide.

I think i have to comment about this. When i told my attitudes about suicide i didn't mention my thoughts why most/others see it as threatening. I think bbd82584 opinion has bit similarities with mine though mine is bit deeper. The reason is actually in much deeper level than just about suicide. First question: why people feel threaten by individual who wants to do suicide? Same question can be asked other way: Why some people feel threatened by person who doesn't do things by rules? It's because of SAFETY. Most important basic need of humans is feeling of safety and most people get this feeling from rules.
Some people understand that rules and moral are two different thing and latter can exist without first.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: SmellsLikeCalifornia on August 17, 2013, 06:04 am
In the light of recent threads, I wanted to get this discussion going. It probably already exists, but here's a new thread anyways.

First off, I would consider myself suicidal. I attempted suicide three times. I nearly killed myself unintentionally once with a nasty benzo+alc mix... just got out of hands. I have a bipolar disorder (URC), so I am aware that my thoughts and actions are always based on my current mindset (which can change pretty fast).
I always try to approach the idea of suicide in a humanist way, as an act of total personal freedom that nobody should interfere with. Suicide is not bad, or weak, or cowardish in any way. It's tragic to those that stay behind.

I would really love to start a discussion with you guys here. Please show me your point of view on the matter, so I can understand the things that I don't think :)

Cheers and stay safe, c13

Suicide is looked down upon because it's a selfish act. Unless you raped a child or are in EXTREME chronic pain there is no reason to end your own life. Hopefully you have, friends, family, brothers, sisters, teachers, even neighbors who you would hurt if you offed yourself. I don't know your situation, but if you've got kids/little brothers/sisters than that's the worst thing you can show them. A strive to continue a valued life at all costs is the essential quest for every human being. As far as we know, your quest could change tomorrow, just remember to look up no matter where you're at. Keep them shoulders high and don't let anyone belittle you.


I think I even posted this somewhere on the interwebs before:
"If you ever think about killing yourself just remember that there's a child somewhere out there that loves and looks up to you.

And if you still feel like offing yourself, just do it, cause you're a piece of shit."

Truth be told.
SLC
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: TMan99 on August 17, 2013, 06:34 am
In the light of recent threads, I wanted to get this discussion going. It probably already exists, but here's a new thread anyways.

First off, I would consider myself suicidal. I attempted suicide three times. I nearly killed myself unintentionally once with a nasty benzo+alc mix... just got out of hands. I have a bipolar disorder (URC), so I am aware that my thoughts and actions are always based on my current mindset (which can change pretty fast).
I always try to approach the idea of suicide in a humanist way, as an act of total personal freedom that nobody should interfere with. Suicide is not bad, or weak, or cowardish in any way. It's tragic to those that stay behind.

I would really love to start a discussion with you guys here. Please show me your point of view on the matter, so I can understand the things that I don't think :)

Cheers and stay safe, c13

Suicide is looked down upon because it's a selfish act. Unless you raped a child or are in EXTREME chronic pain there is no reason to end your own life. Hopefully you have, friends, family, brothers, sisters, teachers, even neighbors who you would hurt if you offed yourself. I don't know your situation, but if you've got kids/little brothers/sisters than that's the worst thing you can show them. A strive to continue a valued life at all costs is the essential quest for every human being. As far as we know, your quest could change tomorrow, just remember to look up no matter where you're at. Keep them shoulders high and don't let anyone belittle you.


I think I even posted this somewhere on the interwebs before:
"If you ever think about killing yourself just remember that there's a child somewhere out there that loves and looks up to you.

And if you still feel like offing yourself, just do it, cause you're a piece of shit."

Truth be told.
SLC
Some people don't have any of that and if they were to blow their brains out no one would give a fuck.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: klemmo on August 17, 2013, 07:03 am
Good Topic. I have also been suicidal for much of my life and strangely enough a lot of my heroes have committed suicide from artists like Van Gogh to musicians like Kurt Cobain, well i guess that one is up for debate, to great writers like David Foster Wallace. On the one hand I felt strongly for most of my life that I was certain that I wanted to be the one to end my life so that I could know how it would end. The thought of not having time to say goodbye to loved ones or getting torn asunder by a bus used to scare me into thinking that suicide was a decent option for me.

However, things have been progressively getting better in my life, and I am so grateful for the loved ones I do have, that there is now no way I would ever abandoned them by committing suicide. Also for someone who doesnt have much to show for my life in general, other than years of drug abuse, Im eager to accomplish some major goals before my time is up. I started a bucket list, that helped to elevate my mood greatly and I have been less suicidal because of it. More importantly, this site gives me a much needed outlet to share my experience and listen to others share their experience. I have not only become non-suicidal since joining this community, my quality of life has improved because some of the members of this community are extremely thoughtful and helpful, something I never expected so I guess I must have been as close minded about addiction as most people to think that this site only has drugs to offer. There is much more and for once we are organized, just as we should be, disenfranchised and all. Stripped of our rights. But we will win the battle.

As far as Japan is concerned, Ive always had a hard time understanding suicide to be honorable and still do. IMO, if you are ready to die, why not sacrifice yourself for the greater good somehow. Donate your body to science or jump on a fucking landmine to save others wouldnt that be better than just giving up. In the end I think thats the major problem with suicide, anyone who is not terminally ill really is just giving up on the same damn life we all have to suffer through. To me thats weakness. I guess in a sense Im a suicidal success story and will continue to be for the rest of my life since I did not give up. I feel pretty damn good about that and only hope that I can help others to come to the same realization so that they may enjoy the lives theyve got.

+1 from me too. That's a lovely piece of writing.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: findingcure on August 17, 2013, 07:08 am
In the light of recent threads, I wanted to get this discussion going. It probably already exists, but here's a new thread anyways.

First off, I would consider myself suicidal. I attempted suicide three times. I nearly killed myself unintentionally once with a nasty benzo+alc mix... just got out of hands. I have a bipolar disorder (URC), so I am aware that my thoughts and actions are always based on my current mindset (which can change pretty fast).
I always try to approach the idea of suicide in a humanist way, as an act of total personal freedom that nobody should interfere with. Suicide is not bad, or weak, or cowardish in any way. It's tragic to those that stay behind.

I would really love to start a discussion with you guys here. Please show me your point of view on the matter, so I can understand the things that I don't think :)

Cheers and stay safe, c13

Suicide is looked down upon because it's a selfish act. Unless you raped a child or are in EXTREME chronic pain there is no reason to end your own life. Hopefully you have, friends, family, brothers, sisters, teachers, even neighbors who you would hurt if you offed yourself. I don't know your situation, but if you've got kids/little brothers/sisters than that's the worst thing you can show them. A strive to continue a valued life at all costs is the essential quest for every human being. As far as we know, your quest could change tomorrow, just remember to look up no matter where you're at. Keep them shoulders high and don't let anyone belittle you.


I think I even posted this somewhere on the interwebs before:
"If you ever think about killing yourself just remember that there's a child somewhere out there that loves and looks up to you.

And if you still feel like offing yourself, just do it, cause you're a piece of shit."

Truth be told.
SLC

You have a very honorable assumption of life and death, but i have to remind that things arent written in black and white. Many people with suicidal tendencies, doesn't have family or close ones. And in worst case, those are the ones who lead person to kill them self, if they are emotionally and/or physically abusive. I can see that you have never been in the situation where suicide would have crossed your mind. In my life suicidal idealization was sign from emotional abuse that my family practiced to me. There was nothing i could do about it. And i don't think you need to tell person with suicidal thoughts they are piece or shit (especially if they don't reach your assumption of human life) since they already feel like that and believe it's correct. I personally know suicide is not right choice for me, but i dont deny those who want it.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on August 22, 2013, 08:46 pm
why give them the satisfaction? its givin' up


TWM
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: TSX on September 09, 2013, 02:26 am
I think some people look down upon suicide because they feel it is the easy way out. Meaning all of YOUR pain and suffering ends but all the people who cared and loved you that are left behind, their suffering just begins. I don't really have a side in this. I feel people should be able to do whatever they want. If you want to kill yourself you have that right.

If you have anyone that loves you, and if so maybe there would be no suicide.
Also your last sentence reminds me of Children of Men and the quote (I only know the German dub audio so it may not be an exact quote): "The government is handing out suicide kits, but weed is still illegal."
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: neplusultra on September 09, 2013, 04:50 am
I recently saw this video on youtube, unrelated to suicide, but there was this nice little graph that showed the top 20 reasons people die. Suicide was around the mid point, but this year alone 36,000+ people committed suicide. Hell man, a lot of people are miserable. Sometimes it's life, not death, that kills you.

Not for the faint of heart, but this is an interesting documentary about all the suicides that have taken place on the golden gate bridge over it's entire history. I forget the exact number, but I think 135 people a year jump from the bridge. Yikes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhARXu3wWDc [CLEARNET]
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: fuckmadagascar on September 09, 2013, 07:56 am
I think some people look down upon suicide because they feel it is the easy way out. Meaning all of YOUR pain and suffering ends but all the people who cared and loved you that are left behind, their suffering just begins. I don't really have a side in this. I feel people should be able to do whatever they want. If you want to kill yourself you have that right.

If you have anyone that loves you, and if so maybe there would be no suicide.
Also your last sentence reminds me of Children of Men and the quote (I only know the German dub audio so it may not be an exact quote): "The government is handing out suicide kits, but weed is still illegal."

Thought of this too! Wonderful connection right there.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: jundullahi on September 19, 2013, 06:03 am
The way I look at suicide is that a waste. We only have one live and this live we have is very sort indeed.
So people dont kill yourself s. There is always a better way out. 
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: TSX on September 19, 2013, 07:38 am
If you are in constant pain and your days are only suffering than maybe it is the best way out. That makes me very sad now that I wrote and thought about it. ;(
But hey let's not be pessimistic in the suicide thread, it may kill someone. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on September 19, 2013, 10:21 pm
are some relief (not all) for pain

TWM
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: FirePharmacy on September 19, 2013, 11:42 pm
I read this thread this morning, and thought about it a lot today.

IMHO, what really matters in the end of life is how we treated others, how we loved, and cared for our families.  I think a parent has a moral obligation to be there for their children.  I mean - kids only have two parents.  They didn't get to pick us.  We are irreplaceable to them.  In my darkest times, it's my children that helped get me through.  Suicide seemed a good out to me, but would have ruined their lives.  I can't say enough how glad I am that I'm still here!

Since those dark times, I've discovered that life itself, the warm sun, the changing leaves in fall, the smell of puppies, a good cup of coffee in the morning, bring me joy and I try to be grateful and enjoy those moments, when before I took them for granted.  Especially when I'm feeling down.  I guess with age comes more wisdom as to how to live a happier life and take the bumps and downs with a grain of salt.

On the other side, I do believe that terminally ill cancer patients, AIDS patients,  and other horribly painful terminal disease patients should have the right to choose a way out.  Lethal injection seems reasonable.  I think even if their kids were at their bedside, they'd see it as a happy escape from a tortured, painful physical existence. 
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Rotaluc on September 21, 2013, 07:29 pm
I know there are some extenuating circumstances, those that must live with intense physical or emotional pain. I understand why some would want to escape this. I pray never to have to fathom such a decision. However for those who suffer, relief could be right around the corner in forms other than death, whether in the form of medical science or a companion, one never knows.
Let's talk about medical science, and I'll only need a single sentence for companions.

I have several conditions.

For one condition, there is no cure and there never will be. Simply can't be done. There is no medication to reduce the symptoms either, and there never will be. If this was my only condition I could live with it.

For another condition, there is no cure but a cure might be invented in, say, a few years. It's possibly being invented right now, I couldn't tell you, all I know is they are working on it. But I wouldn't expect it to be on the market for the next 10 years. And when it does hit the market, I don't know if it'll work for me at all, if I'll quickly develop tolerance, if side effects will be unacceptable.. Oh, and for the first 20 years when it's still patented, I likely won't be able to afford it. If this was my only condition I could live with it.

I've seen specialists, many specialists, for many years. And you know what? I guess I was just out of luck, but all of them were idiots. I have no specific desire to see them again.

For another condition (yes, another), there is no cure and never will be, but there is medication that can severely reduce the symptoms. So I asked my doctor last year (I just recently found out about the condition, up to now the trouble I had was unexplained) to give me some to try if this would fix some problems I've faced throughout my whole life. He told me to see a specialist. So I asked him for just three pills so I could see for myself what this drug would do for me at all, if I was right I would see the specialist. He refused.

This drug is less dangerous than alcohol, less dangerous than caffeine, and even more so when you would have just three pills.

I've also asked friends if I could have some of their pills to try. Would have paid them, obviously. Even asked a doctor in the family to write me a prescription for a few pills. And guess what? Everyone refused. I guess they prefer seeing me in misery.

And now? My "three pills and I'll see the specialist" offer no longer stands. I've lost faith. Even lost faith that medication can help me at all, even though that now with SR I could access almost anything I need.

Those conditions have robbed me of everything that could possibly make life worth living. But I'm not terminally ill, so many would say I have no right to take my own life.

Oh, and companions? My conditions also have inhibited me from finding any.

Fuck my life.
There is a chance, a chance, that life is not the end of your existence - but it is almost definite that you are living life right now.  Why chance nothing, undescribable something, or a torturous afterlife, when those answers will come in their own time.

Have you ever eaten a waffle in the Alps?
Have you ever been hang-gliding?
Have you ever hiked through the wilderness?
I suggest the following. Remove all protein from your diet for two weeks so your body has little sources for dopamine production.

Now use a ton of amphetamines. When it wears off.. Take some more. Now wait for the hangover. Now, do you feel like having a waffle in the Alps? Do you feel like hang-gliding? Do you feel like hiking?

And now, try to imagine some people have to feel like this 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

And to put some humor in this post after all, here's a link to Doug Stanhope's view on suicide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDj85J59OhE . At 2:00 he practically says the topic title out loud.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Remediless on September 21, 2013, 08:22 pm
@Rotaluc Sorry, I might well be being ridiculously thick here, but what's the name of the pill- can you say? Why (as in what reasons do the friends with it and the family doctor state) won't they give you it? Why won't you buy it on SR?

I DO know what deep depression feels like- I've battled it on and off since my teens so you have my sympathy, I know what it feels like to just want a fucking truck to pile into the side of the house and do you in. For me though it's a case of you never know what's around the corner in life and I'm glad I hung on in there by my fingernails when I did because things for me are a-ok now. Not always a mardi-gras, true but life's not ever gonna be perfect and the downs are what make the ups so special.
Title: Re: Why is suicide so frowned upon?
Post by: Rotaluc on September 21, 2013, 11:22 pm
@Rotaluc Sorry, I might well be being ridiculously thick here, but what's the name of the pill- can you say? Why (as in what reasons do the friends with it and the family doctor state) won't they give you it? Why won't you buy it on SR?
Methylphenidate. Some of my problems are probably caused by some misconstructed dopamine system. I suspect it would help my daytime fatigue, focus, motivation and mood. For the latter I've been given SSRI's in the past, but they don't do jack shit for me.

My doc, my best guess, won't give them because it's on the opium list. (would have still been happy if he had suggested an alternative, like atomoxetine, bupropion or modafinil, but.. he didn't) Family doc and friends, I can only guess they don't want me to be happy. SR, oh, I very well may buy it at some point here. It's just that I've been looking for so long, back then, short after discovery, I felt hope that this could make some sort of change. As time passed, I first lost the will to see a psychiatrist, even if I were given some sample pills. A bit later, I lost hope pills would help at all.

And when I compare to alcohol and caffeine, I compare to what I am free to do. I can get completely hammered if I want, but if I ever start drinking, chances are that I'll commit suicide while intoxicated, thinking "what the hell". And caffeine, I've done 800mg of caffeine, absolutely legal.. It was wonderful, and the hangover was horrid. I still feel myself longing to get "there" again, but 800mg isn't even gonna cut it anymore (the second time I did 800mg it was much milder). If I would keep upping the dose like I did, it wouldn't take long to get to lethal levels.

Let me tell you, caffeine is a harddrug.

Three pills of 10mg methylphenidate, not snorted or injected or other crazy crap, just taken, one at a time, is really bloody harmless compared to that.
Quote
I DO know what deep depression feels like- I've battled it on and off since my teens so you have my sympathy, I know what it feels like to just want a fucking truck to pile into the side of the house and do you in. For me though it's a case of you never know what's around the corner in life and I'm glad I hung on in there by my fingernails when I did because things for me are a-ok now. Not always a mardi-gras, true but life's not ever gonna be perfect and the downs are what make the ups so special.
I hung on in there too. I really have no idea how I can still be alive today.

But when I look back, I wish I had ended it 15 years ago. People always told me things get better, too bad that was bullshit. Things get better for some people. Clearly not for all. Or maybe I'm just an exception.

"If you look too long into the Abyss, the Abyss looks into you" - Nietzche