Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: ohnoes123 on October 16, 2012, 11:00 pm

Title: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: ohnoes123 on October 16, 2012, 11:00 pm
I'm so sick of vendors who are selective scammers, sell poor products. Having tons of 5/5 "FE".

If you have to FE, give a 3/5 - type FE, will amend rating once product received and tested. ... THEN you go back change your feedback, and don't give 5/5 just because you received it and didn't testi t yet.

You give feedback based on quality and RECEIVING. That way other buyers can see in the feedback what's going on rather than having to dig around the forums for hours... and the scummers who scam will have a harder time.

In fact, SILK ROAD should make default FE ratings 3/5 and then force the purchaser to AMEND HIS RATING within a certain period.

It's pretty simple logic for gods sake.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: wackmanblu on October 16, 2012, 11:10 pm
Interesting idea, you should put this in the Feature Request forum.

I don't think vendors are going to like it too much though as they want the highest ratings possible. Of course if everyone gets 5/5 then ratings become meaningless so maybe you're onto something.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: a1eph on October 16, 2012, 11:35 pm
Or, finalize and just don't leave any rating at all until you get the product/try it? You can leave or amend feedback at any time, so there's really no need to do it at all.

It's not fair to vendors at ALL to leave 3/5 because it messes up their stats (even if it's just temporary), and may slow down their business if the buyer doesn't see the FE's are the reason for their low score. On the flip side, leaving 5/5 for a FE isn't necessarily fair to buyers either as it may give sellers undue credit; however, one bad rating hurts a seller more than one good rating helps them.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: boringflooring on October 16, 2012, 11:37 pm
what about if it goes to auto-finalization? if somebody couldn't be bothered to get around to finalizing, they sure as hell aren't going to come back to amend the feedback.  Other than that i think it's a pretty good idea. Maybe auto-finalizes could be an exception that automatically goes to a 5/5
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Jello on October 16, 2012, 11:48 pm
Interesting idea, you should put this in the Feature Request forum.

I don't think vendors are going to like it too much though as they want the highest ratings possible. Of course if everyone gets 5/5 then ratings become meaningless so maybe you're onto something.
It isn't an idea at all, it's our responsibility as buyers. Everyone should know how to change the feedback. There is no reason to have a rating system if it isn't going to be used properly. Fuck the vendors rating, what's the point of them having one if it isn't accurate? I got scammed by Juergen since people FE and don't say anything or change the Feedback after being scammed.  He's still rated at 93 while he continues to selectively scam people. At least i learned a lesson, and at a relatively low price luckily.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: anex45 on October 17, 2012, 12:37 am
Or, finalize and just don't leave any rating at all until you get the product/try it? You can leave or amend feedback at any time, so there's really no need to do it at all.

It's not fair to vendors at ALL to leave 3/5 because it messes up their stats (even if it's just temporary), and may slow down their business if the buyer doesn't see the FE's are the reason for their low score. On the flip side, leaving 5/5 for a FE isn't necessarily fair to buyers either as it may give sellers undue credit; however, one bad rating hurts a seller more than one good rating helps them.

Yes but then if the FE rating was 3/5 maybe it would make a vendor have second thoughts about having buyers FE. The only legitimate reason why a vendor should ask someone to FE is if the buyer is new without any transactions or the buyer has a REALLY high refund/auto finalization rate.

I see lots of vendors making buyers FE because they use the excuse of "I need the funds to purchase more drugs to sell to buyers" ...if a vendor can't afford or manage their money right then they shouldn't be a vendor in the first place. A lot of the top vendors on here don't make buyers FE and have no problem selling mass quantities of drugs without needing buyers to FE to free up money.

A smart vendor will take into account that every now and then they're going to have a buyer that tries to scam them and they'll figure in the costs of such transactions.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: wsd23 on October 17, 2012, 02:54 am
Why not a choice in the ratings section that is 'Finalized Early' and wouldn't count towards the seller rating? Could even include on the profile the number of FEs that a seller has had for a period of time, say 2 weeks. Would still require people to actually go back and change the review once they get the package, but you can't make lazy people do anything.

I suppose some sort of notification that prompts you to change the review that pops up on the main page could be done, and would help remind those who are to forgetful (or stoned) to go back and write a proper review.

One could always go through the seller feedback and count up the number of FEs, but SRs load times + missing review pages make looking at past reviews a bit of a chore.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on October 17, 2012, 06:08 am
Some excellent points made guys in the previous posts. The simplest and smartest thing for buyers to do is NEVER FINALIZE EARLY FOR ANY VENDOR OR FOR ANY REASON, EVEN FOR SO CALLED "TRUSTED VENDORS", FULL STOP!! Stay in Escrow and have peace of mind that you won't lose all your Bitcoins. :)
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: danconia on October 17, 2012, 05:57 pm
I agree it should at least not be defaulted at 5/5.  Give us the option to not give a rating when Finalizing (Early).
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Zulu on October 17, 2012, 09:42 pm
I'm so sick of vendors who are selective scammers, sell poor products. Having tons of 5/5 "FE".

If you have to FE, give a 3/5 - type FE, will amend rating once product received and tested. ... THEN you go back change your feedback, and don't give 5/5 just because you received it and didn't testi t yet.

You give feedback based on quality and RECEIVING. That way other buyers can see in the feedback what's going on rather than having to dig around the forums for hours... and the scummers who scam will have a harder time.

In fact, SILK ROAD should make default FE ratings 3/5 and then force the purchaser to AMEND HIS RATING within a certain period.

It's pretty simple logic for gods sake.

+1 my friend - i totally agree with this train of thought!
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on October 17, 2012, 10:08 pm
While I take your point, IMO, it really is a pointless objective to ask buyer's to change their feedback. The issue is that after a week or two has passed and the buyer is ready to change their feedback (either having finally received their order or gone through the resolution process), it's on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th page of the vendor's feedback. I'll bet there aren't too many buyer's who go back a few pages looking at the vendor's feedback. Most would look at the first page and the 10 or so most recent feedback scores and comments written on it when deciding which vendor to use. I will never understand anyone who chooses to FE. I know it's their choice if they choose to do so but why, why take a risk that you don't have to take? ???
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Moldybread on October 17, 2012, 10:47 pm
There should be the rating option "FE".

Rating without having received anything makes the rating system pretty much useless. It creates false trust that may not be deserved.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on October 17, 2012, 11:49 pm
There should be the rating option "FE".

Rating without having received anything makes the rating system pretty much useless. It creates false trust that may not be deserved.

If you don't FE, you won't have to rate an item until either it's in your hands or you have a full/partial refund. Really, there is no need to FE but some people get caught up in a vendor's hype or promises of a "bonus" if you FE. There are many vendors to choose from who utilize the SR Escrow system.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: microRNA on October 18, 2012, 12:11 am
i agree, dont FE in the first place

but if you decide to, you shouldnt mess up a vendors rating because you made the choice to FE

too many people fail to return and edit their feedback, so this would mess up the entire feedback system. if they leave 5/5 but the package doesnt show they are far more motivated to return and edit the feedback...

i personally agree with the member who mentioned you simply shouldnt leave any feedback after FE. you dont have to leave feedback until the order arrives, and they havent earned that score yet anyway

once the order arrives, then you can go back to your order page and submit the feedback
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Red Flag on October 18, 2012, 12:41 am
I'm so sick of vendors who are selective scammers, sell poor products. Having tons of 5/5 "FE".

If you have to FE, give a 3/5 - type FE, will amend rating once product received and tested. ... THEN you go back change your feedback, and don't give 5/5 just because you received it and didn't testi t yet.

You give feedback based on quality and RECEIVING. That way other buyers can see in the feedback what's going on rather than having to dig around the forums for hours... and the scummers who scam will have a harder time.

In fact, SILK ROAD should make default FE ratings 3/5 and then force the purchaser to AMEND HIS RATING within a certain period.

It's pretty simple logic for gods sake.

If people kept giving 3/5 for FE early then that sellers reputation would be ruined. In fact I would say that most vendors would just rather not do a deal if they knew that the buyer was FE and leaving 3/5 feedback.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: AlistairCook on December 31, 2012, 01:03 am
Bump for 2 reasons ... 1) because I agree the rating system is pointless if you only ever FE at 5/5 and 2) now I have FE'd how do I go back and amend it?
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Printro on December 31, 2012, 11:46 am
To your first point - you can FE without leaving a rating and wait for your package to arrive.
Second point - you can amend you feedback if you have already left feedback, but clicking on your account, top of the screen - where it shows how much change is in your purse, than once in your account on the right hand side says 'feedback', you can go in there and see all the feedback you have left and there is an amend button for each individual feedback.

Hope that helps.   :-*
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on December 31, 2012, 12:20 pm
To your first point - you can FE without leaving a rating and wait for your package to arrive.
Second point - you can amend you feedback if you have already left feedback, but clicking on your account, top of the screen - where it shows how much change is in your purse, than once in your account on the right hand side says 'feedback', you can go in there and see all the feedback you have left and there is an amend button for each individual feedback.

Hope that helps.   :-*

All true guys but the problem with that is by the time you return to amend your feedback, the feedback you left is on the 2nd or even 3rd page of the feedback seen on the vendor's Homepage. Very few buyers go back past the first page looking at a vendor's most recent feedback when placing an order and invariably will miss reading the amended feedbacks. This is again another reason to look for vendors who use the Escrow system.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: flaxceed on December 31, 2012, 12:46 pm
Since I switched to all FE all the time, I have lowered prices on:

alprazolam
clenbuterol/t3 stack
tesosterone enanthate
super test- 300mg/ml testosterone enanthate
complete injecting kit

...and I will lower more prices soon.  Why?  Well, I don't have people with great stats using the escrow system to scam me selectively.  That makes my cost lower, so I am passing that along.  You can use vendors who don't require FE, but when you do most of the time (when all else is equal) you will pay higher prices.  When escrow is utilized it means losses for a vendor, and those come out of future customer's pockets.

It is too bad more people don't understand this, and it is too bad we have so many people screaming "never FE for any reason!" because it is misleading for new people.  If you pay attention and only FE with vendors who are really, really good statistically you are not putting yourself at risk!

Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: fuckingACE on December 31, 2012, 01:46 pm
I'm so sick of vendors who are selective scammers, sell poor products. Having tons of 5/5 "FE".

If you have to FE, give a 3/5 - type FE, will amend rating once product received and tested. ... THEN you go back change your feedback, and don't give 5/5 just because you received it and didn't testi t yet.

You give feedback based on quality and RECEIVING. That way other buyers can see in the feedback what's going on rather than having to dig around the forums for hours... and the scummers who scam will have a harder time.

In fact, SILK ROAD should make default FE ratings 3/5 and then force the purchaser to AMEND HIS RATING within a certain period.

It's pretty simple logic for gods sake.
As a vendor that does not and will not ever ask for FE, (not because we are not allowed to but because we don't agree with the principle) we fully support that. There is no reason you should say something is good when the package has not arrived, how do you know the packaging wont be shit and the product bunk? We disagree with the policy of full feedback when FE, and FE in general... feedback is there to gauge a sellers aptitude at selling, if you havn´t completed a transaction you are not in a place to judge quality.
Ace
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: buyer7697 on December 31, 2012, 04:22 pm
I'm so sick of vendors who are selective scammers, sell poor products. Having tons of 5/5 "FE".

If you have to FE, give a 3/5 - type FE, will amend rating once product received and tested. ... THEN you go back change your feedback, and don't give 5/5 just because you received it and didn't testi t yet.

You give feedback based on quality and RECEIVING. That way other buyers can see in the feedback what's going on rather than having to dig around the forums for hours... and the scummers who scam will have a harder time.

In fact, SILK ROAD should make default FE ratings 3/5 and then force the purchaser to AMEND HIS RATING within a certain period.

It's pretty simple logic for gods sake.
As a vendor that does not and will not ever ask for FE, (not because we are not allowed to but because we don't agree with the principle) we fully support that. There is no reason you should say something is good when the package has not arrived, how do you know the packaging wont be shit and the product bunk? We disagree with the policy of full feedback when FE, and FE in general... feedback is there to gauge a sellers aptitude at selling, if you havn´t completed a transaction you are not in a place to judge quality.
Ace

EXACTLY!  You are providing false stats to future buyers when you FE.  How the hell can you give someone a 5/5 when you haven't received or tested the product yet?  The idea of leaving 3/5 if for some dumb reason you do FE is a good one.  Don't give me this BS that it will hurt the seller, if the seller cares that much about a temporary 3/5 rating then the simple solution is to NOT REQUIRE FE.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: paxous on December 31, 2012, 04:24 pm
I'm so sick of vendors who are selective scammers, sell poor products. Having tons of 5/5 "FE".

If you have to FE, give a 3/5 - type FE, will amend rating once product received and tested. ... THEN you go back change your feedback, and don't give 5/5 just because you received it and didn't testi t yet.

You give feedback based on quality and RECEIVING. That way other buyers can see in the feedback what's going on rather than having to dig around the forums for hours... and the scummers who scam will have a harder time.

In fact, SILK ROAD should make default FE ratings 3/5 and then force the purchaser to AMEND HIS RATING within a certain period.

It's pretty simple logic for gods sake.

If people kept giving 3/5 for FE early then that sellers reputation would be ruined. In fact I would say that most vendors would just rather not do a deal if they knew that the buyer was FE and leaving 3/5 feedback.

exacly, FE is just for the vendor not to loose money in case you never receive the goods..
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: flaxceed on January 10, 2013, 04:47 pm
harder time.

exacly, FE is just for the vendor not to loose money in case you never receive the goods..

I require FE but have still on many occasions re-shipped goods that the buyer says did not arrive.  Some people are confused that FE means the vendor has no obligations.  This is clearly not the case since your buyer can leave you feedback and amend feedback.  By the way, I am at 99.8% in over 300 transactions.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: chil on January 10, 2013, 04:56 pm
This is a good idea in theory, in reality the seller would message you telling you to 5/5 FE, otherwise there's no deal.

However, there is a way to get around this: be sneaky. Say ok to the seller, and when he has shipped your order, a few days later, edit your feedback to 3 / 5, while waiting for the package to show up, then uprate your feedback when the package shows up.

I don't like to be sneaky but if that's the only way to stop the FE madness, let's do it. Ideally, SR would have to forbid FE.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: microboilie on January 10, 2013, 05:07 pm
just FE and give 5/5 and change it accordingly, its not rocket science, and also not fair on the vendor to get less than a 5/5 unless they deserve it. plus there's enough people as it is who never come back and change their feedback after finalizing early, why should the vendor suffer for buyers being lazy and not changing their feedback?

 if it bothers you that much, use a vendor that doesn't require FE.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: germx99 on January 10, 2013, 05:19 pm
I don't think it's been stressed enough that if you do decide to finalize early, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LEAVE IMMEDIATE FEEDBACK! If more people realize this, then vendors can get their funds faster, in addition to providing the service offered lest they intend to receive negative feedback for non-delivery/poor quality.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: danknugsdun on January 10, 2013, 06:30 pm
I agree it should at least not be defaulted at 5/5.  Give us the option to not give a rating when Finalizing (Early).

You don't have to give a rating when finalizing?
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: DiamondSky on January 10, 2013, 08:43 pm
Basically the way the rating system is setup right now it is gamed towards vendors being able to scam buyers. If someone FE's and then leaves feedback, that feedback, as I understand it, is timestamped at the time they FE. So if they do get ripped off and eventually adjust their feedback, it is going to be buried behind a boatload of 5/5 FE's and most people aren't going to look back through a month of feedback to find the reality of someone not getting their drugs today.

Personally I think it's up to the vendor if they want to require FE or not. If it works for them then so be it I guess. The whole idea here is we have a market place where we get to choose our vendors. I won't and haven't bought anything that requires FE so some vendors are loosing customer's just like some customer's who choose not to FE are loosing potential vendors. 

What would be nice though is if the feedback system was adjusted so that those that FE can get feedback into the system relevant to the date of product arrival or non-arrival. If someone starts to scam, seeing three pages of 5/5 FE's in front of a bunch of 1/5 I got scammed and it sucks feedback makes the system a little uneven.

Just my two cents
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: QwertAnon on January 10, 2013, 09:21 pm
As pointed out before, you can finalize without leaving any rating.
Once you finalized, just click on Joe or any other link instead of submitting feedback.

Apart from that - don't finalize unless you live on the other side of the world or in russia or something.
Any vendor requesting you to FE without a real reason is a scammer. All of them. Every single one.

FE actually hurts vendors and helps scammers, because any refunds given to someone who finalized won't show up on his record. That's why no sane vendor will ever ask you to FE unless he has no intention of refunding you..
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: dbz4u on January 10, 2013, 10:50 pm
Honestly it's kind of sad that no one has posted this idea. Wipe out FE entirely, make escrow mandatory. Do this by eliminating the finalize option until the seller has confirmed through the tracking that they keep shows that it has arrived and they switch the status from "in transit" to "at destination." Make it a checklist for transactions so they don't have to do it 1 by 1, but ffs make it harder to scam. This isn't rocket science people
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: ladyfarm on January 11, 2013, 01:32 am
I'm sorry but I'm a nubie. How the fuck do I FE. I'm supposed to FE this guy and I can't
for the life of me find where to do this. I've already paid for it and it says it's pending.
Is there somewhere I can give a comment on his page. If so where?
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: dbz4u on January 11, 2013, 01:34 am
I'm sorry but I'm a nubie. How the fuck do I FE. I'm supposed to FE this guy and I can't
for the life of me find where to do this. I've already paid for it and it says it's pending.
Is there somewhere I can give a comment on his page. If so where?
how about you don't? contact SR support and try to cancel your order. Unless you want to see your money possibly disappear that is
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on January 11, 2013, 01:37 am
Or, finalize and just don't leave any rating at all until you get the product/try it? You can leave or amend feedback at any time, so there's really no need to do it at all.

This is suggested several times in this thread but I don't see how to do it.

I know how to go back and change feedback I have given to someone.  But I don't see how to create feedback for a purchase I have finalized but did not leave a rating for.  I just tried this today with a product I received.

After clicking off of the page to leave the initial feedback how do I get back create it?  It does not show up in my profile under view feedback and I don't see a link within the transaction in my account history to update it.

Anybody know how to do this?


UPDATE:
Nevermind I figured it out - it still is on the orders page until you leave feedback.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on January 11, 2013, 01:40 am
I'm sorry but I'm a nubie. How the fuck do I FE. I'm supposed to FE this guy and I can't
for the life of me find where to do this. I've already paid for it and it says it's pending.
Is there somewhere I can give a comment on his page. If so where?

Click on your orders page and click the button that says finalize if you wan't to do this.  Just be careful about which vendor you are dealing with.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: uniwiz on January 11, 2013, 02:17 am
Honestly it's kind of sad that no one has posted this idea. Wipe out FE entirely, make escrow mandatory. Do this by eliminating the finalize option until the seller has confirmed through the tracking that they keep shows that it has arrived and they switch the status from "in transit" to "at destination." Make it a checklist for transactions so they don't have to do it 1 by 1, but ffs make it harder to scam. This isn't rocket science people
<facepalm>

It always worth repeating, don't FE.

SR Support tells you not to FE.
Experienced buyers/forum members who are not vendors tell you not to FE, but people still do it.
No rule can stop you from giving your money away.

Flaxseed has justified FE, in the rumor mill, in the Don't FE Thread. All his excuses have been throughly debated. It's great for vendors, bad for buyers over the long run.

Only YOU can prevent FE, all you have to do, is not click the finalize button. How do you make a rule for that?
Boycott vendors who require FE, and move to the next one who doesn't. For those who earned their stats, use your brains, and buying power.
Come on people use some common sense.

Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on January 11, 2013, 06:52 am
Honestly it's kind of sad that no one has posted this idea. Wipe out FE entirely, make escrow mandatory. Do this by eliminating the finalize option until the seller has confirmed through the tracking that they keep shows that it has arrived and they switch the status from "in transit" to "at destination." Make it a checklist for transactions so they don't have to do it 1 by 1, but ffs make it harder to scam. This isn't rocket science people
<facepalm>

It always worth repeating, don't FE.

SR Support tells you not to FE.
Experienced buyers/forum members who are not vendors tell you not to FE, but people still do it.
No rule can stop you from giving your money away.

Flaxseed has justified FE, in the rumor mill, in the Don't FE Thread. All his excuses have been throughly debated. It's great for vendors, bad for buyers over the long run.

Only YOU can prevent FE, all you have to do, is not click the finalize button. How do you make a rule for that?
Boycott vendors who require FE, and move to the next one who doesn't. For those who earned their stats, use your brains, and buying power.
Come on people use some common sense.

unwiz, once again you have posted some common sense on this issue of FE. +1  :). Seriously, anybody who FE for ANY reason is taking a risk that they just don't have to  ???. It makes absolutely NO SENSE at all to FE for anyone. Some buyers need to use their head and not be sucked into some of the deals promised by some vendors if they do FE. Escrow is in place for the protection of both parties. If each one fulfills there part of the transaction, all will be fine but should a problem arise, at least if a resolution can't be reached by both parties, SR Support can make a decision based on the facts and any evidence presented to them. That, IMO, is at least a fair and equitable resolution to any problem which may occur instead of the alternative of FE, where a buyer is purely at the mercy of the vendor with regards to any type of refund/reship or resolution. Buyers need to realize that there is NO SUCH THING as a "trusted vendor" or a "trustworthy vendor" when your using an anonymous market on the Hidden Web. That's not to say that excellent, professional vendors are not operating on SR, because they definitely are, but one just never can be sure, hence the purpose of the SR Escrow system and why buyers need to utilize it. One last thing to remember,  buyer's also need to understand that by FE, SR views that as you having received your order and are satisfied with it all, almost like a receipt if you like. Once you finalize the order, SR Support will NOT help you at all, FULL STOP.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: warmkitty on January 11, 2013, 09:10 am
The feedback system has the potential to accurately identify the trustworthiness of all sellers - Both FE and non FE - it just requires that accurate feedback is left.
Maybe FE transactions should have feedback set by default as "pending" to ensure buyers are aware that they still need to leave feedback rather than risk the situation at present which is buyers getting skewed feedback because buyers are too ignorant or too lazy to update feedback allready left.
Their is nothing wrong per se buying FE so long as the seller is trustworthy - after all you dont order your shopping online from tescos and only expect to pay for it after you have eaaten it.
If i was selling i would be disinclined to proceed on the basis that i was at the mercy of the buyer if i got ripped off.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on January 11, 2013, 09:43 am
The feedback system has the potential to accurately identify the trustworthiness of all sellers - Both FE and non FE - it just requires that accurate feedback is left.
Maybe FE transactions should have feedback set by default as "pending" to ensure buyers are aware that they still need to leave feedback rather than risk the situation at present which is buyers getting skewed feedback because buyers are too ignorant or too lazy to update feedback allready left.
Their is nothing wrong per se buying FE so long as the seller is trustworthy - after all you dont order your shopping online from tescos and only expect to pay for it after you have eaaten it.
If i was selling i would be disinclined to proceed on the basis that i was at the mercy of the buyer if i got ripped off.

Quote
Their is nothing wrong per se buying FE so long as the seller is trustworthy 

If I had a dollar for every time I've read those infamous words "trustworthy vendor", I'd be loaded.  ???  There is NO such thing when using an anonymous market on the Hidden Web to buy illegal products. Sorry, but that's the truth. Just ask those buyers who FE for Tony76 who they thought was a trustworthy vendor!!!  ::)  There are many others one could name but, if you simply use the Escrow system, you'll do all in your power to prevent yourself from falling victim to scammers. Why anybody would take a risk that they simply don't have to take is beyond me!

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after all you dont order your shopping online from tescos and only expect to pay for it after you have eaaten it. 

Your transaction in this situation is transparent in that your name and account are linked to your purchase. If I buy something, pay for it and find a problem with what I ordered, I can return it and ask for a replacement or a refund. If I have problems doing so, I can then ask a particular Government Organization/Department to step in on my behalf as the retailer would be breaking a law by not selling a product fit for purchase or able to be used as it should be. Ordering illegal products on an anonymous market found on the Hidden Web is a completely different situation altogether. If I buy something and pay for it before I receive it, the vendor could ship me anything and suddenly disappear off the face of the earth, never to be seen again or in some cases, resurface as a new vendor with a new name. I'd be up shit creek without a paddle and could kiss my coins good bye. Your comparing apples with oranges IMO.

The current feedback system would work fine if buyers left feedback when they received their orders and didn't FE. It's as simple as that. I could understand vendors asking buyers to FE if there was no Escrow system, but we have one and should utilize it.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: uniwiz on January 11, 2013, 11:11 am
There is a long list of "trusted" vendors who ran off with peoples BTC, for various reasons.
They build trust, get good reviews, require FE, put out orders, then run a great sale. GONE!
They even wonderful people in the forums, until they disappear. Yes, I have been sucked in, but after Tony76 I'm a lot wiser,
How much do you need to loose before YOU smarten up?

Every freakin week, it happens.
People use common sense.

What he said above ;)
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on January 11, 2013, 12:32 pm
What I find sad unwiz is there will still be many people who will continue to FE, get screwed and then post how they have been ripped off by a "trusted vendor", despite the endless flow of warnings by many people. If buyers took the time to read the SR Wiki, including the Buyers Guide, and the "A Few Words" by DPR on the SR Home Page (top right hand corner), they might think twice before FE. Problem is IMO, only a small percentage do so before ordering.  :o
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: sppa on January 11, 2013, 03:21 pm
FE should not be included in the sellers stats.( perhaps a tick box option as to why....New customer etc.) It should read as a seperate number. eg :SPPA(99) (25). So 25% of my sales are FE'd but hold no rating and dont affect the overall %. Whatever is the consensus on here, it will be hard to implement a totally new system now, as it would effectively cause all the vendors to go back to 0.
 I think this would put more emphasis on the customer to do his research and make an informed decision. After all it is a buyers market and I agree with what this thread is saying. If we collectively as a whole start to boycote the FE then hopefully it will be only used for the very first time buyer, ordering samples to build his stats

It peeves me when I see people finalise, give 5/5 but have not even tried the product
perhaps the stats shown next to their name should be overall rating for received goods, so at a glimse the number would represent how many parcels have been recieved.i.e 100 % success. So FE would not affect this total. and on the particular goods page you can see the review for that product.
Also if FE your order still remains visable. so you are aware you need to fill in a review WHEN your goods have arrived
SPPA (99) (25)
so 99% of my orders have reached its destination  ( obviously in cases of resolution it can be amended by admin when an aoutcome is reached), 25% of my orders have FE'd
You look at a particular product, say 1g white widow, there you can see all the reviews for that strand only. there I can see what people actually think of that product.
This way customers wont be scared into giving no less than 5/5 as it wont affect the overall stats of the vendor, but allows you to be honest
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: danknugsdun on January 11, 2013, 03:23 pm
Honestly it's kind of sad that no one has posted this idea. Wipe out FE entirely, make escrow mandatory. Do this by eliminating the finalize option until the seller has confirmed through the tracking that they keep shows that it has arrived and they switch the status from "in transit" to "at destination." Make it a checklist for transactions so they don't have to do it 1 by 1, but ffs make it harder to scam. This isn't rocket science people

By that logic you are making it easier for buyers to scam. If you think most sellers are going to send out 10-20k worth of merchandise in escrow you are wrong. It's too much of a risk.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: edar on January 11, 2013, 03:39 pm
Dont F.e  If you still want to F.e  .....          Leaving  1/5  for F.E WILL UPDATE
but I dont know why anybody would want too or have too
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on January 11, 2013, 03:58 pm
Honestly it's kind of sad that no one has posted this idea. Wipe out FE entirely, make escrow mandatory. Do this by eliminating the finalize option until the seller has confirmed through the tracking that they keep shows that it has arrived and they switch the status from "in transit" to "at destination." Make it a checklist for transactions so they don't have to do it 1 by 1, but ffs make it harder to scam. This isn't rocket science people

By that logic you are making it easier for buyers to scam. If you think most sellers are going to send out 10-20k worth of merchandise in escrow you are wrong. It's too much of a risk.

It's much more of a risk for a buyer to not use Escrow and pay a vendor for a product not yet received! I totally understand a vendor's view point where some buyers are only out to scam vendors for some free drugs, constantly creating new accounts and pretending their orders haven't arrived. As a buyer, that really pisses me off as it affects how we, genuine buyers, are perceived in the eyes of some vendors through no fault of our own. Vendors can take some preventative measures to counteract this such as, for example, limiting the amount newbie's can purchase in a single transaction until they reach a certain number of purchases. The only risk to a vendor having money in Escrow is either from SR being taken down or DPR doing a runner. The latter isn't going to happen IMO because it's a constant income stream making some serious coin. I'm not for one minute pretending it couldn't or will never happen,  but I highly doubt DPR would ever kill the goose that layed, and is still laying, the golden egg. That just doesn't make any sense to me and coupled with his/her's proven loyalty and dedication to remain and fight for what they believe in, fighting through and prevailing after some minor issues and hacks, leaves me in no doubt Escrows biggest hurdle is LE infiltration. DPR has done an amazing job in maintaining the security and anonymity of this hidden service. One can only hope he/she remains a step ahead of the authorities for a long time to come. As it stands, Escrow is the safest and fairest option for all concerned and while each side will have some issues with particular aspects of the system, it's currently all we have until a better idea or system, prevails. 
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: warmkitty on January 12, 2013, 09:49 am
The feedback system has the potential to accurately identify the trustworthiness of all sellers - Both FE and non FE - it just requires that accurate feedback is left.
Maybe FE transactions should have feedback set by default as "pending" to ensure buyers are aware that they still need to leave feedback rather than risk the situation at present which is buyers getting skewed feedback because buyers are too ignorant or too lazy to update feedback allready left.
Their is nothing wrong per se buying FE so long as the seller is trustworthy - after all you dont order your shopping online from tescos and only expect to pay for it after you have eaaten it.
If i was selling i would be disinclined to proceed on the basis that i was at the mercy of the buyer if i got ripped off.

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Their is nothing wrong per se buying FE so long as the seller is trustworthy 

If I had a dollar for every time I've read those infamous words "trustworthy vendor", I'd be loaded.  ???  There is NO such thing when using an anonymous market on the Hidden Web to buy illegal products. Sorry, but that's the truth. Just ask those buyers who FE for Tony76 who they thought was a trustworthy vendor!!!  ::)  There are many others one could name but, if you simply use the Escrow system, you'll do all in your power to prevent yourself from falling victim to scammers. Why anybody would take a risk that they simply don't have to take is beyond me!

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after all you dont order your shopping online from tescos and only expect to pay for it after you have eaaten it. 

Your transaction in this situation is transparent in that your name and account are linked to your purchase. If I buy something, pay for it and find a problem with what I ordered, I can return it and ask for a replacement or a refund. If I have problems doing so, I can then ask a particular Government Organization/Department to step in on my behalf as the retailer would be breaking a law by not selling a product fit for purchase or able to be used as it should be. Ordering illegal products on an anonymous market found on the Hidden Web is a completely different situation altogether. If I buy something and pay for it before I receive it, the vendor could ship me anything and suddenly disappear off the face of the earth, never to be seen again or in some cases, resurface as a new vendor with a new name. I'd be up shit creek without a paddle and could kiss my coins good bye. Your comparing apples with oranges IMO.

The current feedback system would work fine if buyers left feedback when they received their orders and didn't FE. It's as simple as that. I could understand vendors asking buyers to FE if there was no Escrow system, but we have one and should utilize it.
Yes i agree.
From a buyers perspective. A trustworthy seller is only trustworthy till he goes bad. Why risk it ? Never FE.
From a seller perspective every non FE transaction you are at the mercy of the buyer ripping you off. One can understand why sellers prefer FE particularly with new customers.
Where buyers are persuaded into FE then feedback is their only leverage to ensure honest delivery so making FE feedback "pending" would at least give the seller incentive to supply and remind the buyer to leave accurate feedback on completion.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on January 12, 2013, 10:09 am
The problem with the whole feedback issue relating to buyers FE is there is only room for 10 feed backs to be left on each page. By the time a buyer is ready to edit their feedback, it's probably 2-4 pages back and no longer on the vendor's actual home page. Most buyers I've heard from rarely, if ever, look at feedback beyond the first page so if this is the case, most if not all of the amended feed back won't be seen. 
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: hoobydoobydoo on January 12, 2013, 04:38 pm
The problem with the whole feedback issue relating to buyers FE is there is only room for 10 feed backs to be left on each page. By the time a buyer is ready to edit their feedback, it's probably 2-4 pages back and no longer on the vendor's actual home page. Most buyers I've heard from rarely, if ever, look at feedback beyond the first page so if this is the case, most if not all of the amended feed back won't be seen.

It can still impact the vendors rating even if the comments aren't seen.  And when you see a sub-100 score people might click back to find out the reason.  I have several times at least.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on January 12, 2013, 09:46 pm
The problem with the whole feedback issue relating to buyers FE is there is only room for 10 feed backs to be left on each page. By the time a buyer is ready to edit their feedback, it's probably 2-4 pages back and no longer on the vendor's actual home page. Most buyers I've heard from rarely, if ever, look at feedback beyond the first page so if this is the case, most if not all of the amended feed back won't be seen.

It can still impact the vendors rating even if the comments aren't seen.  And when you see a sub-100 score people might click back to find out the reason.  I have several times at least.

It would only impact newer vendors with a low number of transactions. Established vendors with hundreds, if not thousands of transactions to their name, would barely feel any change to their feedback score. It would require a lot of buyers leaving poor feedback to significantly lower their feedback score compared to a small number for a new vendor to have the same affect. As I said previously, I sent out quite a few PM's months ago now to some buyers asking them about this very issue and from memory, only 3 out of 32 PM's sent stated they had checked past the first page of feedback when researching a vendor.
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: dbz4u on January 13, 2013, 12:07 am
The problem with the whole feedback issue relating to buyers FE is there is only room for 10 feed backs to be left on each page. By the time a buyer is ready to edit their feedback, it's probably 2-4 pages back and no longer on the vendor's actual home page. Most buyers I've heard from rarely, if ever, look at feedback beyond the first page so if this is the case, most if not all of the amended feed back won't be seen.

It can still impact the vendors rating even if the comments aren't seen.  And when you see a sub-100 score people might click back to find out the reason.  I have several times at least.

 
It would only impact newer vendors with a low number of transactions. Established vendors with hundreds, if not thousands of transactions to their name, would barely feel any change to their feedback score. It would require a lot of buyers leaving poor feedback to significantly lower their feedback score compared to a small number for a new vendor to have the same affect. As I said previously, I sent out quite a few PM's months ago now to some buyers asking them about this very issue and from memory, only 3 out of 32 PM's sent stated they had checked past the first page of feedback when researching a vendor.

Aww man, that's just sad. How can people just be SOOO trusting on the internet. Scratch that, not even the internet, the motherfucking DARKWEB!
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: JakkTheKipper on January 14, 2013, 06:59 am
So would you say it's OK to leave 3/5 with a little message as long as you definitely go back and amend when the business is concluded? In my opinion, if you have to FE, placing a temporary 3/5 or 4/5 is fair because they shouldn't be asking for FE to begin with and at the time the feedback is left it is an honest reflection of the service so far. You can't tell me everybody is happy with FE. I've seen countless vendor profiles with a 100% rating and they've got nothing but FE notes in the feedback so giving them a temporary drop in the ratings would make people think twice before ordering (YKKZipper for example).
Title: Re: To those who FE/ Have to FE.. DON'T FE AT 5/5... Amend your feedback
Post by: Wadozo on January 14, 2013, 09:04 am
Really, all this bullshit about changing this and doing that in relation to buyers who FE is ridiculous!  ??? If buyers just followed the SR guidelines instead of trying to re-invent the wheel, there would be a major reduction in scamming!! Instead of going round in circles, FOLLOW DPR'S GUIDELINES!