Silk Road forums

Market => Product offers => Topic started by: DrDeepWood on June 25, 2013, 02:33 am

Title: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: DrDeepWood on June 25, 2013, 02:33 am
I had an idea for vendors I am thinking of implementing.
It will be a site called GeoStashing.  Vendors will list it in their shipping options for huge cities such as:

Geostashing - Denver,CO
Geostashing - New York, NY
Geostashing - Houston, TX

Once the user orders, the vendor or one of his "droppers" goes around town and hides the orders in various places in public.  Using GPS tagged pictures the buyer will be notified where the drop is (GPS in google earth) and given a picture of it.  There will be security features to prevent the seller from accidentally adding a picture which contains his home location or something stupid like that.

example drop locations:

National Parks - driven into the ground with a tiny flag marking the position
Phone booths/payphones - taped in an in-accessible place (godfather)
Public bathrooms - same
Side of the road/highway - driven into the ground at a specific mile marker, tiny flag marking position


Many of you will think A) why go through the effort and B) this is insecure.

A) you H and coke vendors know how bad customers fiend, some would glady pay 500$ for same day delivery if they are experiencing withdrawls

B) this is not any less secure than mailing, as long as the vendor does not use any of the same drops twice, in fact, buyers have much more plausible deniability if they are somehow caught.

"I picked up this small film canister from the ground out of curiosity" is a lot easier to get away with than "I don't know anything about these drugs mailed to my name and address"

Of course vendors will have to hire "droppers" in major cities but due to the premium many would pay for same day service, it will be affordable to hire some workers.

Go look on topix and see how in every major city there are threads for people looking for drug connections, this would be the perfect answer.

Once in a while people will have their stashes stolen before they get there, but due to the vendor tagging a picture with GPS coordinates it will be easy to prove that it was an accident.

Let me know what you guys think.  Would you vend using this method? Would you buy using this method?
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: JackieChan on June 25, 2013, 02:46 am
I like it.

What is stopping the buyer from saying it was not there?
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: DrDeepWood on June 25, 2013, 03:09 am
What is stopping the buyer from saying it was not there?

Vendors have the same problem using the mail.
A tracking number will usually win the vendor the money via escrow if it comes down to a resultion.

How about a GPS and timestamp tagged image of the stashspot?

This of course could be "gamed" like the tracking number but if a vendor bothered to go out and take a picture of the stash, most likely he really did leave something.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: BruceCampbell on June 25, 2013, 03:25 am
Something tells me this is not a very good idea. Unless you're dealing IRL and actually know your customers and use this as a tradecraft technique I don't think it will work out very well.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: Juggernog on June 25, 2013, 06:53 am
Something tells me this is not a very good idea. Unless you're dealing IRL and actually know your customers and use this as a tradecraft technique I don't think it will work out very well.

Agreed. Awesome imagination, but maybe not thought out enough? It seems quite risky, as if it's not already.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: eguy85 on June 25, 2013, 07:34 am
Ya, I don't think it would go over with the surveillance state that US is now. Look at the Boston bombers, they found them via surveillance. Law enforcement could order from a vendor and say the vendor dropped the stash behind a toilet like in the Godfather, LE could simply pull surveillance videos and try and catch the vendor. Also, there are no payphones anymore.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: DrDeepWood on June 25, 2013, 08:46 am
Ya, I don't think it would go over with the surveillance state that US is now. Look at the Boston bombers, they found them via surveillance. Law enforcement could order from a vendor and say the vendor dropped the stash behind a toilet like in the Godfather, LE could simply pull surveillance videos and try and catch the vendor. Also, there are no payphones anymore.

You guys are forgetting one thing, there are more security cameras at the post office than there are elsewhere! Using this method is safer!  Mailing things exposes you to just as many cameras.  Plus, even in the largest cities there are parks without cameras.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: Tellemetree on June 25, 2013, 09:00 am
I had a dealer irl come up with a similar idea 10 years ago. It'd be viable and maybe useful if dealing irl, but not so much for SRers, since most buyers in big cities SHOULD be able to score if they are WDing somewhere in that city.

If not, well, your talking about a small minority now.

Its an awesome idea and viable in the right situation, just not convinced SR vendors are the right target.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: MrAnonymous on June 25, 2013, 09:03 am
Okay, so the buyer gets the location - what about LE buying and then just staking out the location.

A stake out with two undercover officers costs very little, so it would be super easy for them to do.

Maybe the don't get the vendor, but they get the dropper. And even if the dropper doesn't talk, they still have the dropper in possesion and can link him to the crime.

And there would be sufficent evidence to say that he is the vendor in court (even if he wasn't). So to avoid the larger jail term most would talk.


Anyone agreeing to drop the packages is stupid.

Not knocking your idea at all, it's creative. But it wouldnt work.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: Tellemetree on June 25, 2013, 09:08 am
Okay, so the buyer gets the location - what about LE buying and then just staking out the location.

A stake out with two undercover officers costs very little, so it would be super easy for them to do.

Maybe the don't get the vendor, but they get the dropper. And even if the dropper doesn't talk, they still have the dropper in possesion and can link him to the crime.

And there would be sufficent evidence to say that he is the vendor in court (even if he wasn't). So to avoid the larger jail term most would talk.


Anyone agreeing to drop the packages is stupid.

Not knocking your idea at all, it's creative. But it wouldnt work.

Yeah assuming it works how my guy planned. The location and pics etc isn't sent until AFTER the dropper has made the drop. So they aren't at any sort of increased risk than with posting mail.

I still think its better suited irl dealers though to avoid the meet and face to face aspect.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: zxydwx3 on June 25, 2013, 09:34 am
Quite original. Not sure how or if it would work, but I'll be pondering...
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: DrDeepWood on June 26, 2013, 07:36 am
Okay, so the buyer gets the location - what about LE buying and then just staking out the location.

A stake out with two undercover officers costs very little, so it would be super easy for them to do.

Maybe the don't get the vendor, but they get the dropper. And even if the dropper doesn't talk, they still have the dropper in possesion and can link him to the crime.

And there would be sufficent evidence to say that he is the vendor in court (even if he wasn't). So to avoid the larger jail term most would talk.


Anyone agreeing to drop the packages is stupid.

Not knocking your idea at all, it's creative. But it wouldnt work.

Yeah assuming it works how my guy planned. The location and pics etc isn't sent until AFTER the dropper has made the drop. So they aren't at any sort of increased risk than with posting mail.

I still think its better suited irl dealers though to avoid the meet and face to face aspect.

Exactly, the dropper will only send the location after he has left.  As long as the dropper does not use the same location twice he will be totally safe.  This will not always be the case with the mail, I would suspect that when mail regulations require ID and going into the post office for most mail then this idea will be a lot more useful.

This would be good for IRL dealers except for the fact that they need to be paid, if the client is using bitcoin to pay him then why not make it totally anonymous in the first place.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: pzvTVzD6OL on June 26, 2013, 08:29 am
I like the idea, and I think it's quite a good one for the dealer's protection even if it won't be that easy to put this method in place, but there is another problem : what about the buyer's safety ?

What can assure the buyer that the dealer isn't still there, waiting for the buyer to come in and for instance take pictures of him to have a possibility to blackmail him later ?
And what if LE made the listing, and simply wait for the buyer in order to arrest him ?
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: zxydwx3 on June 26, 2013, 05:53 pm
I like the idea, and I think it's quite a good one for the dealer's protection even if it won't be that easy to put this method in place, but there is another problem : what about the buyer's safety ?

What can assure the buyer that the dealer isn't still there, waiting for the buyer to come in and for instance take pictures of him to have a possibility to blackmail him later ?
And what if LE made the listing, and simply wait for the buyer in order to arrest him ?

What would they arrest the buyer for? He hasn't taken possession of the contraband yet.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: pzvTVzD6OL on June 26, 2013, 06:02 pm
Yes, but for instance if the listing is for big amounts (I'm talking amounts that clearly aren't for your own personal consumption), even if they don't arrest you right away, they can know who you are and that you are probably a dealer yourself.

And there is still the fact that the vendor can know who you are without much effort by simply waiting for you to pick the package.
It's a good idea for the vendor's protection, but I'm not really sure about the buyer's security in this kind of dead drops.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: DrDeepWood on June 27, 2013, 04:22 am
These are the same kinds of problems which are inherent with the mail system and every other method.

Yes, geostashing will not prevent a cop from setting up a vendor account and busting buyers or something, but neither does SR.

Seems the only criticisms of my idea are criticisms that also apply to the silk road in general.
Title: Re: Geostashing - Vendors dropping packages off same day
Post by: pzvTVzD6OL on June 27, 2013, 01:03 pm
These are the same kinds of problems which are inherent with the mail system and every other method.

Not for this part, no vendor could know your face/take pictures of you using the classic mail system, unless he travels to your front door and wait for you to pick up your mail, which is simply not viable.

And there is still the fact that the vendor can know who you are without much effort by simply waiting for you to pick the package.
It's a good idea for the vendor's protection, but I'm not really sure about the buyer's security in this kind of dead drops.


Also if the problems are the same between this and other methods, I don't really see the point in implementing it, as the only main benefit would be a same day "delivery" but it would cost a lot more for the vendor than just mailing his orders with express shipping.
Or he will have to charge a lot more for same day pick-up, and I don't really think that much people will be interested compared to an express delivery.

And one other problem of this method that doesn't exist with the classic mail system, it's fine if you ordered a few grams, but what about a few ounces ? Won't it be dangerous to simply walk around town with such quantity on you (for both the dropper and the buyer) ?
Don't get me wrong, I love these kind of methods, but I just don't think it would be worth it here on SR, even if it's a good idea for IRL dealers.