Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: Cynosure on March 15, 2013, 04:45 am
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Mind you, I have not had many transactions and have not yet been asked to sign for a package. I'm just very curious as to what one should do if asked to do so.
Say you place an order here at the Silk Road. You didn't notice any mention in the vendor's profile of having to sign for your package. You get a knock on your door from an ordinary delivery person, with the package in hand, asking you to sign for it.
What do you do and why?
I've seen many people saying "NEVER SIGN FOR A PACKAGE". I'd like to know the logic behind this. Does signing for it seal you to possession of the contents of said package? In my mind, I would sign for a package I did not know was coming without hesitation. Can you not still deny, after signing, that you had no idea this package was coming or what it's contents were? Would it not seem sketch (and would you not possibly forfeit your goods) if you refused to sign for it? I've never seen anyone refuse to sign for a package and have even signed for packages to my address that have had the wrong name on them.
Your help is much appreciated; I'd like to be prepared!
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Your input is much appreciated!
..any others?
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Having someone sign for it and holding it is a great idea if you have a fake drop.
I would be worried doing it the other way. If the order is seized and they know its sign for delivery, then your set for a controlled delivery.
But here in australia, i'd say they would just take it out and send you an empty letter, or they just destroy it and send you a letter, i dont know...all depends on the amount ordered i suppose.
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Just don't get comfortable.
You should never, ever, take a package from a mail courier physically--whether you sign or not. The minute its in your possession, its good enough to search you all over. There are stories all over the net from signing, not signing, and even LE blowing their cover and trying to get dude to admit stuff was his. The underlying thing is you taking control of the package.
There was a bust recently (2 weeks ago or so) where a guy just got his mail from the mailbox (which had a drug package), walked inside and got busted--they were watching his box. Taking possession is the key.
Ideally you should either have a clean home (this is by far the best way), so that nothing would come up or stick in the event something went South, or have a clean and trusted drop point. If you have a clean home and something happens, you have a pretty good chance of pleading ignorance and walking away.
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I don't mind signing for packages, but I never order more than 1 package at a time that needs to be signed for. If the police would try to bust me for signing for it, I would just ask for a lawyer and deny knowing anything about it. I would just say that I get packages all the time from ebay and stuff, so I didn't know what I was signing for and didn't know I was signing for anything illegal. I don't think that explanation would work so well though if you get busted with several packages at once, it becomes kinda hard to believably deny knowing anything if I have like 4 packages containing various drugs from different places intercepted at once. I'm not a legal expert so my theory might be totally full of shit, but personally I stick with the one package rule just as a bit of a precaution when it comes to signature-required packages.
I have signed for a lot of bulk packages at home over the years and never had any trouble. One time I got slightly sketched out when I received a package that was partially ripped open, but nothing came of it and the contents inside were fine (and still hidden from plain view) so I think it had just been damaged by a mail sorting machine or something. I actually prefer to have tracking/signature required options for when I make a very large bulk order of something because from my experience it's a lot more likely to arrive fast and reliably if the seller has good packaging and can get the goods past customs.
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maybe you missed the part right above you that advised to have the po box sign for you and put it into the box. Legally, it still constitutes you signing, but you control when you pick it up.
No i didnt miss it, i mentioned it at the very start of my post. I said its a good idea AV.
But it can still bite you, their either watching your box, or even better they get video of you walking in and know who you are, then realize your not who you say you are because its a fake named drop.
I know end of the day its just mail. Would you sign for a bulk amount though? Say 2-3 ounces of cocaine? Thats where i'd start to worry, signing for that much.
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maybe you missed the part right above you that advised to have the po box sign for you and put it into the box. Legally, it still constitutes you signing, but you control when you pick it up.
Would you sign for a bulk amount though? Say 2-3 ounces of cocaine? Thats where i'd start to worry, signing for that much.
In my opinion you should NEVER sign for any amount of drugs that wouldn't be considered personal use. If you have the capital to buy bulk, then use some of it to secure a delivery method that doesn't link to you.
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As I see it there are two differed scenarios. One where you buy for personal use and one as a reseller/bulk-order. If you buy small amounts for personal use, don’t be so paranoid. No one cares for your weekend addiction. As a vender that often ships packages for 3-500USD it irritates me to see people saying "don’t sign for anything" When I just spend 30USD for something to hide my product inside, used time to hide it, spent another 30USD on shipping with a fake return address plus the value of my goods. And then here them bitch and mone about me wanting to use track and trace (need a signature) to make sure you get what you ordered. If you loos your guts when the packaged arrive and don’t sign it will be shipped back to the fake address and the police. And you can be sure I will lose 50% I the resolution center. So in shot, if you have the nerve to order it then have the decency to sign for it and accept the slap-on-the-wrist if you get court for your small pushed. If your buying bulk you should know the sconsequences and accept the punishment.
So for the love of SR and future deals can all you don’t-sign-for-anything people please stop your nonsense. If you get a controled delevery you will get your house searched. signing or not.
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I don't mind signing for packages, but I never order more than 1 package at a time that needs to be signed for. If the police would try to bust me for signing for it, I would just ask for a lawyer and deny knowing anything about it.
If you're in the US and they do a CD then they are extremely likely to execute a search warrant shortly the package is on your premises (or usually in your house). The "I didn't know" defense should work provided you stick to it and provided there isn't anything else in your house. Usually they find other stuff in the house.
Also realize that detectives want to win and they will twist your words or claim that you said something you didn't in order to arrest you. It really does happen. Maybe they'll drop the charges eventually but getting booked, making bond, paying for a lawyer, having a mugshot....not fun. Just yes having a clean house and not talking is key. The police are really good at getting people to talk.
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To be safe u can mark this package as Return to Sender for one day. But I for myself have never seen drugs getting forwarded by the police. Infact i THINK its not even allowed for police to forward drugs with them knowing. What if it comes, u open it, take an overdose and die. People could point at the police and say its ur fault cuz u knew it was there...They should have confiscated it. But in the us everything is possible ive heared. Lately i came across an article that said feds can install spycams and you are not allowed to remove them and if u do u could get charged. Well good for the stalkers, they now dont have to be worried their spycams getting removed cuz people are scary they could get charged lmao. Anyway... just a few cents of mine. Nothing with any ground to it.
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As you can see, only the super paranoid buyers and the people dealing with large amounts would advise people not to sign for packages.
And the reason those people don't sign is mainly for plausible deniability as well as making a controlled delivery that much harder to execute.
So if you a small time buyer I would not worry at all, I've signed for a few packages with zero problems.
However if it isn't clearly stated on the vendors page that Signature is Required then I probably wouldn't sign.
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Having someone sign for it and holding it is a great idea if you have a fake drop.
I would be worried doing it the other way. If the order is seized and they know its sign for delivery, then your set for a controlled delivery.
But here in australia, i'd say they would just take it out and send you an empty letter, or they just destroy it and send you a letter, i dont know...all depends on the amount ordered i suppose.
agreed- esp for int. shipments, I wouldn't sign for anything. Or answer the door for that matter. It may be paranoia, but a healthy level of paranoia seems to be warranted to keep yourself safe.
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The challenge with International is that (with some exceptions) international tracking is only available if using registered mail and in the US that "officially" requires an in-person signature. There are lots of international vendors that sell untracked packages of course. That's going to come at a higher risk of not getting your package or a refund but it is better than going to jail.
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Have anyone ever herd of anybody going to jail for signing for 2-5 (even 10) grams of coke, mdma or weed? Has there ever been a CD for such a small amount? I havent and I honestly dont think it will happen. Again. no one cares for your weekend addiction.
I really don’t feel that advising anyone to "not sign for anything or even answer the door" is helping anyone. I think it is coursing allot of people to get paranoid for no reason. Unless you can show me evidence to the contrary and that you actually will go to jail for such an amount.
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I've received 3 more packages and haven't had to sign for any of them. Luckily, they've been coming directly to my mailbox.
I'm anticipating it, though, as my mailbox is smaller than normal due to being in a complex. I plan on signing for them unless there's something extremely sketch about the situation.
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I've received 3 more packages and haven't had to sign for any of them. Luckily, they've been coming directly to my mailbox.
I'm anticipating it, though, as my mailbox is smaller than normal due to being in a complex. I plan on signing for them unless there's something extremely sketch about the situation.
You don't have to sign because the mailman brought the package to your door. You have to sign because the package was sent in manner that requires signature such as registered mail which in the US requires a signature in person. Before you order make sure you are clear with the vendor if you need to sign for the package.
LE will often try to get you to sign in case of a controlled delivery but there was recently a 500g bust of MDMA where the feds simply placed the package into the mailbox and waited for somebody to take the package into the house.
Whenever there is a bust everyone screams "what an idiot for signing" but then you look over in the dutchaanbod thread and find there are hundreds of people that have ordered 50g+ of MDMA and had to sign for it because it is sent international registered tracked mail.
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i've signed for bulk quite a few times. just have to trust the vendor and stealth and set up your drop properly.
Most SR customers have been misled about good stealth. Customs is going to use an x-ray or maybe a dog before they take the time to actually open a package. Much of this "great stealth" just makes things look worse under an x-ray.
You're right about the dro although it is important to consider that law enforcement is often using GPS now.
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To be safe u can mark this package as Return to Sender for one day. But I for myself have never seen drugs getting forwarded by the police. Infact i THINK its not even allowed for police to forward drugs with them knowing. What if it comes, u open it, take an overdose and die. People could point at the police and say its ur fault cuz u knew it was there...They should have confiscated it. But in the us everything is possible ive heared. Lately i came across an article that said feds can install spycams and you are not allowed to remove them and if u do u could get charged. Well good for the stalkers, they now dont have to be worried their spycams getting removed cuz people are scary they could get charged lmao. Anyway... just a few cents of mine. Nothing with any ground to it.
I don't know what country you are in, but most countries allow undercover law enforcement to break the law in pursuit of the "bad guys."
In the US they regularly sell drugs, weapons, fake IDs, you name it, all in the name of fighting "crime."
In fact, the CIA pretty much created the crack epidemic of the 80's, and nobody here hasn't heard of the Fast and Furious operation where they "lost" tons of guns they were selling to the Mexican cartels. Real drugs, real guns. You can't hand a knowledgeable dealer a bag only 1/2 full of coke when you're undercover, if you want to live.
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To be safe u can mark this package as Return to Sender for one day. But I for myself have never seen drugs getting forwarded by the police. Infact i THINK its not even allowed for police to forward drugs with them knowing. What if it comes, u open it, take an overdose and die. People could point at the police and say its ur fault cuz u knew it was there...They should have confiscated it. But in the us everything is possible ive heared. Lately i came across an article that said feds can install spycams and you are not allowed to remove them and if u do u could get charged. Well good for the stalkers, they now dont have to be worried their spycams getting removed cuz people are scary they could get charged lmao. Anyway... just a few cents of mine. Nothing with any ground to it.
I don't know what country you are in, but most countries allow undercover law enforcement to break the law in pursuit of the "bad guys."
In the US they regularly sell drugs, weapons, fake IDs, you name it, all in the name of fighting "crime."
In fact, the CIA pretty much created the crack epidemic of the 80's, and nobody here hasn't heard of the Fast and Furious operation where they "lost" tons of guns they were selling to the Mexican cartels. Real drugs, real guns. You can't hand a knowledgeable dealer a bag only 1/2 full of coke when you're undercover, if you want to live.
Most countrys is not true. At least not in the EU at all.
Quite simple why it shouldnt be allowed. because they will seduce people to make illegal things. If they werent there to offer the drugs the people wouldnt have tried to buy it. Means basically they create the 'bad guys' just to make them pay? What world we living in?
I can see it clearly: cop comes to you asks 'hey do u want to buy some coke' ? 'hell yeah, why not, i never did it but i always wanted to try it'! 'ok, u r arrested because u wanted to buy drugs' rly?
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Just don't assume 50g of MDMA (or even an oz) isn't going to get a CD. The vast majority of packages get through so we don't ever see many love letters but of those that get caught the law often specified fairly low amounts as being enough for trafficking. Even small amounts are often automatically possession with intent to sell.
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subbed.
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its certainly possible but id be blown away if you could show proof.
Just to give some context in relation to the recent Florida CD, 10g+ of MDMA in FL requires a mandatory minimum 3 years in prison and a $50,000 fine: http://www.thelawman.net/Drug-Offenses/Florida-Drug-Trafficking-Statute.shtml
I can't imagine customs will simply destroy a 50g package of MDMA and not send a love letter or notify the local LE or something. But I may have overstepped as I've never worked for customs so hell if I know. I do think that authorities are more likely to inform the local news about the larger busts than the smaller ones.
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The penalties for smaller amounts of MDMA are astonishing. Most states anything over 1g is a felony. It is insane when you think about it, compared to other drugs that are far worse and much lower schedule (or legal, like alcohol...)
The whole delivery thing can be entirely mitigated if you keep a clean house, or use a reliable drop. I think the biggest problem is people finding a trustworthy or safe drop, and an unwillingness to keep a clean house.
For people buying bulk, its probably safer and easier to either pay a couple hundred dollars for some actual stealth (like hollowed out hard drives, for instance, or some other x-ray defeating "normal" object), or to rent a local shithole off of craigslist on a month-month basis with fake info. The cost is steep, but if you are importing 1/2 key of some drugs, its probably worth it.
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I agree. I think people get a sense of security in these forums and if I had to guess, the bulk of international drugs are shipped to homes with drugs. The odds indicate they'll be fine but if you're one of the few that get caught the odds don't matter anymore.
The people that get caught and go to jail aren't very active on the forums.
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The vendor should make the buyer well aware that a signature will be required unless they have the option to waive signature. If ever asked to sign for anything else, go with your gut feeling. Is it your regular mail person? Are they acting wierd? Does anything not feel right? If you want to sign but are not sure, ask the senders name and where it is from before signing anything.
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The vendor should make the buyer well aware that a signature will be required unless they have the option to waive signature. If ever asked to sign for anything else, go with your gut feeling. Is it your regular mail person? Are they acting wierd? Does anything not feel right? If you want to sign but are not sure, ask the senders name and where it is from before signing anything.
This is false comfort. There have been instances where LE watched someone get a package from their mailbox, or used gps to detect the package had moved inside. The "refuse package dont answer door" thing works sometimes, but the ultimate way to not be a convicted felon is to be totally clean when something goes down.
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something like that
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I see everyone saying personal use and obviously much more then that. What would you guy say the max for personal use would be? I would never order more then a oz of marijuana but that's just me.
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I see everyone saying personal use and obviously much more then that. What would you guy say the max for personal use would be? I would never order more then a oz of marijuana but that's just me.
I also try my best to stick to the 1oz rule.
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dont like the idea of it
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The laws tend to be more reasonable for smaller amounts of weed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_US_state
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MAN. The show 'DEA' on spike has an episode where they pull a package sting in northern new jersey, stupid fool at the salon signs for it and before he knows it hes cuffed and stuffed, unless maybe its overnight or express of course
The vendor should make the buyer well aware that a signature will be required unless they have the option to waive signature. If ever asked to sign for anything else, go with your gut feeling. Is it your regular mail person? Are they acting wierd? Does anything not feel right? If you want to sign but are not sure, ask the senders name and where it is from before signing anything.
This is false comfort. There have been instances where LE watched someone get a package from their mailbox, or used gps to detect the package had moved inside. The "refuse package dont answer door" thing works sometimes, but the ultimate way to not be a convicted felon is to be totally clean when something goes down.
I worry about that, them watching you go to the box. I live in a a spot where it would be easy to detect people that dont fit. Only thing they could do to have an advantage surveillance setup on me would to setup in an apt/house in my neighborhood to watch me from there, couldn't do shit about that
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A lot of helpful information here. I am inclined to agree that the risk is relatively low for personal amounts, period. That said, domestic orders with no signature required feel much less sweaty than international with signature required, even if they are the same small amount!
Stay smart and use PGP. I see these newer vendors popping up without accepting PGP and they are doing serious biz. That is very stupid. Don't ever give your address without PGP. Everything else is secondary.
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i've signed for bulk quite a few times. just have to trust the vendor and stealth and set up your drop properly.
Most SR customers have been misled about good stealth. Customs is going to use an x-ray or maybe a dog before they take the time to actually open a package. Much of this "great stealth" just makes things look worse under an x-ray.
You're right about the dro although it is important to consider that law enforcement is often using GPS now.
I'd say this point is debatable although it depends on what the intent of your stealthing is. Although I do agree there are some very odd ideas about what will help orders get to customers sometimes. Why some people still seem to think spraying perfume on things helps keep them hidden is beyond me.
Also to the guy who said about hiding drugs inside hard drives, X-rays can go through metal as it's one way they can detect human trafficking in the back of cargo trucks. However the scanners used on trucks are much more powerful than the ones used for parcels, how much so I don't know so it could possibly work but then the top lid of a hard drive is normally only a few millimeters thick so it might not be thick enough.
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The vendor should make the buyer well aware that a signature will be required unless they have the option to waive signature. If ever asked to sign for anything else, go with your gut feeling. Is it your regular mail person? Are they acting wierd? Does anything not feel right? If you want to sign but are not sure, ask the senders name and where it is from before signing anything.
I agree that the Vendor NEEDS to let their buyers know that if they buy a certain type of shipping (most likely Express), that the pkg will need to be signed for. Unless they waive the signature, some vendors do and others don't; but I am not sure that this is an option with International. I think that REQUIRES a signature.
Just make sure you do your best to keep a clean a spot at your receiving address. This is for ALL SR DRUGS. Just because you don't need to sign for a pkg doesn't mean some Dilbert at USPS won't accidently stumble upon your goods and pass the info on to the local ball-busters.
I wanted to add that I have received some pkgs in the past that required a signature and Everytime, it was a new mail person who I didn't recognize. Normally people would be shittin' bricks about this; but this is common for my area. There are carriers whose job is ONLY making these types of deliveries. I.E.- they only deliver pkg's, anything with a signature required, certified mail; etc... This happens all the time and like I said is the way these types of mail are handled around here. So there is no reason to freak out if a different than your usual mailman is trying to get you to sign for your 10 Molly pills and 1/2 G of fishscale; the regular mail carriers routes are biggger than ever so they don't have time to tackle every mail item.