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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: lonchainme on January 24, 2012, 12:43 am

Title: any possibility of tripping on antidepressants?
Post by: lonchainme on January 24, 2012, 12:43 am
Years ago I used hallucinogenics a bit and enjoyed it a lot.  I stopped doing drugs for a while save for the effexor and wellbutrin that I started taking for the first time some years back.  It occurred to me while looking over SR that the psychedelics I was looking forward to taking most probably will not work.  Like, at all.  I researched this a bit and although I know some people get less of an effect, or stop taking their antidepressant for a day and take twice what they would normally take of whatever, it seems like effexor (SNRIs in particular) are very good at cutting the balls right off of any and all psychedelics.  With wellbutrin it seems like its lessening effects are not as severe, but as basically a last resort, I thought I'd post here and see if there are in fact any kinds of psychedelics that are less hindered/not hindered at all by antidepressants. 
Title: Re: any possibility of tripping on antidepressants?
Post by: onestopshop on January 24, 2012, 01:46 am
I did some research on this for a med patient and got mixed conclusions from the research, but it's like you said they'll lessen the effects but they won't cut it off completely you just need a little bit more then usual to trip (talking about mushrooms here), I think the main problem is that your more likely to have a bad trip.

not so sure r.e wellbutrin but did a quick bit of digging on to it, and pretty much same as above so just increase dosage more then what you'd normally take, to pluck a figure out of the air I'd say have 25-50% higher dosage

hope that helps a bit
Title: Re: any possibility of tripping on antidepressants?
Post by: tcobambientAgain on January 24, 2012, 04:57 am
I just talked about this in another thread because I ate an 1/8 of shrooms Wed night and had no effect on me.  I'm on Prozac, Lithium and Cymbalta.  I did some research and the prozac and lithium shouldn't have had any negative effect.  I couldn't find out about Cymbalta so I'm thinking that could be the one that fucked me over? 
I've tripped once before a few years ago and loved it.  The problem is I'd have to stop taking my meds for probably 3 or 4 days to get them out of my system enough for the shrooms to really hit but by that time you start to get withdrawals.  Antidepressant withdrawals are a fucking bitch to deal with. 
Title: Re: any possibility of tripping on antidepressants?
Post by: lonchainme on January 24, 2012, 05:18 am
I think the main problem is that your more likely to have a bad trip.

Is this primarily because of the context for the start of the trip (i.e. having to take way more of whatever than you normally would, being nervous it's not gonna work, maybe being nervous because you stopped taking your meds for a day in order to trip better and are wondering if you're gonna start freaking out), or is it also something having to do with the way the antidepressants and psychedelics interact? 

It's a damn shame because I'm a lot more functional on said meds than without them (and actually have only good things to say about them), and you'd figure a better head space would allow for a better trip, but nooooo
Title: Re: any possibility of tripping on antidepressants?
Post by: ShieLdz on January 25, 2012, 12:28 am
I don't know about SNRI's, but I was prescribed to an SSRI for awhile and I dropped acid once while I was on it. I took two hits of some local WoW and tripped my ass off! Quite possibly my favorite trip to date. I don't think the SSRI hindered my trip at all. I too have read about the grim potential for antidepressants and lsd, but I'm not convinced. I believe that if you are prescribed to these drugs, it's probably because you have a chemical imbalance (more specifically, a serotonin imbalance) - hence what the drugs are for. For a normal person, an SSRI/SMRI's might hinder their trip, but for those of us already lacking serotonin it might just be the thing we we need to have a good trip. IMO.

One thing's for sure though, I would NOT increase my dose (of any hallucinogen) to compensate for the antidepressant. That could have all kinds of bad side effects, namely serotonin syndrome   :-\

NOTE: You may want to wait until to you get things sorted out though. Unfortunately, there have been several instances in which patients suffering from depression have committed suicide while under the influence  :'(

hope that helps
Title: Re: any possibility of tripping on antidepressants?
Post by: bobmarley1 on January 25, 2012, 08:09 am
i've tried basically all of the SSRI's and none of them have sent me "tripping"...unfortunately.
Title: Re: any possibility of tripping on antidepressants?
Post by: Silpheed on January 25, 2012, 10:10 am
Some antidepressants can make other drugs last longer. But first you need to know which cytochrome P450 enzymes metabolize the antidepressant, and which cytochrome P450 enzymes metabolize the other drug. You shouldn't be mixing any drugs until you first know how each of them are metabolized. And you should learn more about drug metabolism in general because you only have one body after all.

For example, the antidepressant venlafaxine (Effexor) is metabolized by the cytochrome P450 enzyme CYP2D6, mainly in the liver. Venlafaxine is a substrate of CYP2D6.

A substrate is a molecule that an enzyme acts upon. An enzyme is a protein that catalyzes (increases the rate of) a chemical reaction. The substrate binds with the active site on the enzyme, forming an enzyme-substrate complex. The substrate is then transformed into one or more products, which are then released from the active site. If there is more than one substrate, they might bind in a certain order to the active site, before reacting together to produce other products.

That is how the human body metabolizes all foreign substances (xenobiotics), including drugs, although it can't always metabolize everything thrown at it. And sometimes, a metabolite that is produced by metabolism may be harmful to the organism. Cytochrome P450 oxidases, UDP-glucuronosyltransferases, and glutathione S-transferases are used to metabolize xenobiotics in the human body. Often metabolites of certain drugs can be detected in urine, and that is how urinalysis (urine) drug tests work, by looking for certain metabolites.

An enzyme substrate (a substrate that a specific enzyme acts upon) binds to an enzyme and the enzyme converts it into other products. An enzyme activator binds to an enzyme and increases the activity of the enzyme. An enzyme inhibitor is a molecule that binds to an enzyme and decreases its activity.

If an enzyme inhibitor binds to an enzyme, it can prevent the substrate from entering the enzyme's active site, or hinder the enzyme from catalyzing its normal reaction. Inhibitor binding can be reversible or irreversible.

An enzyme inhibitor can be competitive, uncompetitive, non-competitive, or partially competitive. In competitive inhibition, when the inhibitor binds first to the active site on the enzyme, it prevents the binding of the substrate (and when the substrate binds first to the active site it prevents the binding of the inhibitor, as if one key was put into a lock first). In uncompetitive inhibition aka anti-competitive inhibition, the inhibitor only binds to the enzyme-substrate complex (so the substrate first binds to the enzyme, and then the inhibitor binds to that structure). In non-competitive inhibition, the inhibitor binds to a different site on the enzyme (not the active site) and reduces the activity of the enzyme.

If a certain drug is a substrate of (whatever) cytochrome P450 enzyme (abbreviated as CYP), then a CYP(whatever) inhibitor will prevent that drug from being metabolized like it normally would, and thus stay in the human body longer.

The antidepressant fluoxetine (Prozac) is a strong CYP2D6 inhibitor, and a mild to moderate inhibitor of CYP1A2, CYP2B6, CYP2C9/2C19, and CYP3A4. It also inhibits the activity of P-glycoprotein, a membrane transport protein that has a function in drug transport and metabolism.

Cocaine for example is metabolized by CYP3A4.

MAOIs can prolong and enhance the effects of psilocybin, alcohol may enhance the effects of psilocybin, and tobacco smoke can lead to more powerful effects since the smoke decreases levels of MAO in the brain and other organs.

Here's an example (although I'm not exactly sure on this, I'm still learning):

Since fluoxetine is a strong CYP2D6 inhibitor, if someone takes fluoxetine it will decrease the activity of the CYP2D6 enzyme in response to other drugs. As if someone put their key in a lock so other keys could no longer fit. If someone later consumes a drug that is a substrate of CYP2D6, say, venlafaxine, then the CYP2D6 could not metabolize venlafaxine like it normally would, because it's already busy metabolizing fluoxetine. The venlafaxine would then stay in their body longer than it normally would.

Before mixing any drugs you need to know if there are any contraindications (a factor or condition that is a reason to withhold a drug) or drug interactions, or you could get seriously injured or die.

Don't take my word for it. Do your own research.