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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: oppyate on January 01, 2012, 05:35 am

Title: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 01, 2012, 05:35 am
I have been injecting both IV and IM for over 25 years. Both are similar, but I want to cover the basics of IV Injections because I'm reading lots of procedures that are bothering me and I think it's just Wrong.

What NOT to IV: although you could get creative and IV just about anything, chances are you will become ill or dead. Unlike Ingesting something, once something zips along your Blood Stream at an average of 50 MPH, you may get lucky the first time the junk passes your Heart And Lungs, but not so Lucky the Second.

1. Never Inject Narcotics that have APAP/Tylenol, ibuprofen or aspirin. If you Cold Water process, you really still have amounts of APAP, which is not, meant to be floating around in your bloodstream. Aspirin is an Acid and it will have negative effects on your body.

2. MDMA, MDA, LSD, 2-C, Ketamine, Coke or anything else. The effects will become greatly Magnified and what may be of ingested safety will be waay too much for your circulatory system.

3. Tar Heroin: I personally don’t shoot Tar anymore because of images and medical details that have come about. However, If you must shoot Tar and Not Powder, I will give what I consider to be just an effective way to shoot it safely.

4. My focus will be on pills that are 100% pure Narcotic. These are 100 percent oxycodone (OC's, Roxies, MC's,) 100% Opana (oxymorphone), Diluadid (100% hydromorphone) and of course Heroin, Powder and Tar.

An important thing to take into consideration is “bio-availability.” What percentage of X Drug will become fully available once it’s in your Bloodstream or Ingested.

Conversion: What will be more Potent? 12 milligrams of hydromorphone, 40 milligrams of oxycodone, 8 milligrams of oxymorphone or 10-20 milligrams of (50 to 70%) Heroin? Trick question cause actually all these are all equivalent doses. Actually on the high side!

 More realistic Dosages for non-opiate experienced IV’ers would be as follows:

Morphine 5 mg
Diamorphine (H) 2-3 mg (2 full matchstick heads)
Codeine 50 mg
Oxycodone 5 mg
Hydromorphone 2 mg
Methadone 1 mg
Fentanyl  IV 100 mcg
Oxymorphone 3mg

Syringe and Needle:

Typically if you can find, buy a Syringe that will hold 2 CC’s or 2 ML’s you’ll be fine. Even if your doing IM Injections, 1 ML/CC is usually the max dosage anyway.

Needle Gauge: The smaller the number, the Thicker the Needle. A 20-gauge needle is a fucking nail. Most likely for thick oils such as steroids. The higher the gauge, the thinner the needle. For example, a 31-gauge needle is thinner than a 28-gauge needle. Most Insulin needles are between 28 gauge and 31.

For IV’ing the “approved” Opiates, a 2cc/2ml Syringe with a half-inch length 28-gauge needle is perfect. These are usually Diabetic needles.

2. Isopropyl Alcohol 70% or higher
3. 100% cotton balls or wipes
4. Sanitized Glass water dropper
5. Distilled Water
6. Large Tablespoon with good lip on it
7. Clear Pyrex container or cup that will hold 5ML’s of water.
Heating source, stove or microwave.
8. Pill Crusher and Credit Card.
9. One set of very well washed and dried set of hands.

Some people swear on Saline solution, but its expensive and good clean water is just as effective.

A.   Pills or Powder. Find 2 flat saucers that have an upward lip. This will save you from potentially spilling the goods. If you have a pill crusher, take the pill you will be using to IV. For this example we will use the 5mg Oxycodne Roxy you have burning a hole in your hand. Place it in pill crusher and crush, crush away until you have a powder form. You will still have chunks that need to be dealt with. Take your Credit Card and give it a quick wipe with your cotton soaked in alcohol, wipe clean of germs and flick in your wrist back and forth until CC is completely dry. In the 2 saucers, pour about equal amounts of the crushed powder. With your CC, rub the powder down over and over and occasionally bring to a pile and then crush/rub with CC until you have a super fine powder. The finer the powder, the more it will quickly dissolve. You should have 2 saucers with 2 nice piles of approximately 3 possibly 4 milligrams of oxycodone fine powder. If you don’t have a pill crusher, use your spoon. If you press down in the wrong way or too quickly that thing will fly off and you will spend the next 30 minutes looking for the pill. Press down firmly, but slowly. Get you CC and gather the pile. Press again with spoon. Each time it will be easier and easier until you have a crushed powder. Repeat the rubbing and piling with the Credit Card until you have a talc like pile of powder.

B.   Into you cup or beaker, pour in 3-4 CC’s/ML’s of Distilled water. Boil or nuke until it’s scalding. Meanwhile, take your powder, picked up with Credit Card and pour it into your spoon. Take your eyedropper or syringe and suck up pretty close to 2 cc’s or 2mls of scalding water and drop slowly onto your spoon. Do not over fill your spoon or you will lose contents. 2 CC’s is enough and should be enough to fill your spoon. Most syringes and needles come with a tip cover. If the needle was wrapped and brand new, feel free to use that tip to stir the powder until all the powder is now a liquid. Color may be clear, maybe light white or even brown if your using H. The water in spoon will still be hot but by time you get it into your syringe it will be ready to shoot. If your needle is used, please use the alcohol to wipe or soak that baby down and let air-dry.

C.   Get a piece of cotton about the size of your pinky. Roll it up and drop that baby right in the middle of spoon.

D.   Take covers off needle and gently stab the wet cotton. Draw up with your syringe and then stop. Look at your syringe and burp it. Tap it a few times and push out any air. Stab your cotton again and keep drawing out whatever liquid is in it. You may have some liquid in spoon and feel free to put the few drops in your mouth, grab the cotton and chew on it. Waste makes haste.

E.   You now have your syringe filled, burped of all air bubbles and with anywhere from one CC to possibly 2 CC’s if over did the water. Place cover on needle and set aside on a clean paper towel. Grab cotton, soak it with alcohol and vigorously rub the area or vein your going to poke into.

F.   Belt or Rubber strap. I have really good juicy veins that are very visible so I have not had to use them. If you have a hard time finding a Vein, you may need to use these items to get a vein to bulge.

Moment of truth. With a dart like, yet methodical lunge, push the needle into your vein. If it’s a half-inch needle, be sure at least a full quarter inch enters your vein. With your thumb (takes practice) slowly push up on the syringe plunder and look for blood trailing into your syringe. This is important because you will know with out a doubt that you are now in a vein. The slowly, methodically push in all 1 to 2 ccs of the liquid into your vein. Pull out the syringe and quickly place cotton with alcohol on the bend of your elbow, fold back your arm and wait a few seconds. The bleeding should have stopped. Find a comfortable place to chill and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Be sure you put all the stuff close together in case you have to put your shit away in a moments notice.

Heroin: Follow all the same guidelines, but probably no need to crush your 2 matcheads with CC or pill crusher unless your lucky enough to come across rare but pure chucks (unlikely.)

Black Tar: Follow all the same directions, except after its been sitting in the hot water, dissolve it as much as possible with your syringe tip.
The take a Lighter and burn it from underneath until it bubbles. Tar has lots of impurities so you want to burn those off. Add about 1 more CC of water, stir and heat one more time with lighter. This will give you a very well purified 2 cc’s of Tar. Because Tar is unrefined and thick, it’s best to be sure you get a full 2 cc’s of water. All the other methods, 1 cc or more is fine. Just be sure you know you have the right dosage, right conversion and you realize your stepping a slippery slope once you start to IV.

Hope that helps. Most important, Sanitize, sanitize, sanitize!

oppyate




Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: E=daveC² on January 01, 2012, 02:40 pm
Couple things I can suggest. I've read heat is not needed and maybe even bad to use for pills because the opiates easily dissolve in cold water while hot water can allow more of the fillers to dissolve. Use a micron filter if possible to remove the particles you can't see that can clog your capillaries.

Make sure you don't get any filler drawn into your syringe. Double filtering for pills isn't a bad idea especially if the solution looks cloudy. Get a clean spoon and empty the syringe into it. Then drop a smaller piece of cotton in there and suck up again. I always hold my shot up to the light to make sure there are no particles or bubbles in there. Another thing I do is soak the cottons in alcohol and squeeze them out before using since I doubt they come sterile.

I prefer using as little water as possible, and use fresh, cold tap water and haven't had any infections yet. For dope I only use about .3cc, pills you need some more. I've read a double wash can help get some more of the opiates left after the first rinse. With Opana's or Dilaudid's I'll use maybe .6cc for the first wash, squirt that into the second spoon, then use another .4cc wash and combine them before filtering the second time. You might need a full cc to properly dissolve some opiates like morphine and methadone. I haven't messed with tar yet so I don't know how to handle that.

Thanks for all the info oppyate. Be careful everyone. When in doubt, check out the forums here or on bluelight or opiophile.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 01, 2012, 08:15 pm
Quote
I prefer using as little water as possible, and use fresh, cold tap water and haven't had any infections yet.

Davekozy I have seen and if im in a rush I have used plain water out of a tap. Personally, I'm just trying to shoot for Safety here. I figuere if someone will at least follow 50% of the Guidelines they wont end up hurting themselves. You are right that you can use as little .5 ML's. If it's tar, I would'nt do it.
Tar I would want minimum of 1.5 ml's or CC's.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: jj06 on January 01, 2012, 11:06 pm
12mg IV hydromorphone is NOT the same as 40mg IV oxycodone. It's in the same league as 100-120mg oxycodone. (Unless you're referring to eqv PO, which could be dangerously confusing in a thread like this). I have less experience with the other drugs, but I don't think that's a very good conversion chart for IV-to-IV. It certainly differs from conversion ratios used clinically, and differs from my and others personal experience. As the clinical conversion charts are on the low side, it would be prudent for inexperienced users to start there and titrate up.

While I don't know what country you're in, in the US 2cc/28g equipment is very rare. You generally don't need more than 1cc, and 2cc equipment is typically 23-25g (larger needle, for those not familiar, which causes far more vascular damage). This is especially true for Instant Release preparations. The only solubility limit you're likely to encounter is with oxycodone; if you're trying to IV more than 150mg at once you'll likely need a larger rig, but I suspect people at that level of tolerance are already familiar with all this.

To aid in registering, you can pull back the plunger as soon as the needle breaks the skin. This will create a vacuum bubble that automatically draws blood in so you know when you've entered a vein.

One of the most important safety tips: if the blood is bright red and it burns, you've hit an artery. Pull out immediately. Never shoot into arteries.

Edit: One more thing, cotton fever is not caused by the cotton itself, but rather a specific type of bacteria that grows on cotton. For this reason, try to get the cotton balls from the first aid section of stores that says 'sterile' cotton. If the box does not specifically say it's sterile, then it's not. This will prevent cotton fever (but not all IV-related infections).

If you're injecting pills, attempt to obtain wheel filters. Over time, inactive fillers from pills will accumulate in your lungs and can cause serious health problems. Micron filters reduce this risk. These are fairly hard to find, and getting them online is pretty much the only option.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 02, 2012, 02:30 am
jj06..if you read carefully I very clearly stated that was high end and merely to prove the point that numbers are deceiving, especially in bio-availability ingested or IV'd. That was very clearlt stated as "high end." My numbers came from an on-line conversion calculator. I then go on in the following :

“More realistic Dosages for non-opiate experienced IV’ers would be as follows:

Morphine 5 mg
Diamorphine (H) 2-3 mg (2 full matchstick heads)
Codeine 50 mg
Oxycodone 5 mg
Hydromorphone 2 mg
Methadone 1 mg
Fentanyl  IV 100 mcg
Oxymorphone 3mg”

I dont disagree with your other comments. A Regestered burse could have written a better set of guidlines. I'm just scratching surface and there are just as many variations and preferences to IV'ing as there are to drug of choice. Again, I'm doing my best to provide some type of guideline for safety. I'd be more than happy to Torch this thread if you feel you can provide superior methods for safety.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: E=daveC² on January 02, 2012, 04:34 am
I always clean the spoons, syringes, and cotton with alcohol every time. Never use your dirty mouth to clean the coating off of pills either. Wipe them with alcohol swabs or scrape the coating off. I don't reuse the cotton since it's so cheap and easy to get, but I do reuse my needles a few times after rinsing with water and then alcohol. I certainly don't follow every precaution I should, but I'm being far more careful now then I was a few years ago when I caught Hep C from sharing dirty needles. :(

Thanks for the heads up on the tar. I like to try it this month if it's still around when I get money.

Etizolam has some wheel filters for sale. http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/15

Not to piss on your cornflakes, but I think the numbers for hydromorphone and oxymorphone should be reversed. I'm pretty sure oxymorph is about %50 stronger than hydromorph when IV'd. I know I get a hell of a lot higher shooting a 10 mg Opana than an 8 mg Diluadid.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: jj06 on January 02, 2012, 04:49 am
I agree with most of what you said about safety outside of what I commented on, I just wanted to provide a caution about the conversion figures you're using. 5mg oxycodone/2mg hydromorphone is still pretty extreme, since a non-tolerant user should start with ~15mg for a reasonable recreational dose; 6mg of hydromorphone IV'd by someone with zero tolerance will easily have them puking for a few hours. Remember, the oral bioavailability of hydromorphone is way down in the 15-20% range compared to 70-85+% for oxycodone. Also, which online conversion tool are you referring to? I recommend the one chronicpain links to in the sticky opiate conversion thread ( http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=900.0 ). I don't know which site might suggest 100ug fentanyl IV is equal to only 5mg of oxycodone. The whole 'reduction for cross-tolerance' idea doesn't really carry over to recreational use. I've found dosages need to be increased above the guidelines, but would never suggest a low-tolerance user to start there, and at high tolerance other factors come into play (for example, when my tolerance was 800-1400mg oxycodone per day, no matter how much oxymorphone I did, I felt only the rush and was sick again within 20 minutes, even with 80-100mg oxymorphone IV'd).

Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: E=daveC² on January 02, 2012, 05:12 am
I don't have much tolerance and no habit now. A 30 mg oxy iv'd is fine for me, an 8mg Diluadid does me good, and a 10 mg Opana is great. I'm about 175 lbs for reference. No puking here. I guess I'm lucky.

Wow you had a high tolerance. 20 mg Opana might kill me. 80 to 100 mg is insane.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: jj06 on January 02, 2012, 05:18 am
Big difference between no tolerance and some tolerance. 30mg was too much for me the first few times, but after a year 100% clean what tolerance remained from the bad old days (that kind of tolerance is not fun, you aren't even high most of the time, and supporting it is a nightmare- 8 doctors) I started up again and 30mg barely cut it, needed 45 to nod again.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: E=daveC² on January 02, 2012, 07:34 pm
I've never nodded from a 30 mg roxi even the first time I shot one. Roxi's kind of wake me up actually. Now the Opana is another story. I snorted about 15 mg of an ER and I was nodding for hours. Man that stuff is strong. They build tolerance quick and I felt a little sick after just a week of using. Dilaudid and Opana are definitely my two favorite opiates behind H.

Once you've had a tolerance that high your brain is probably permanently changed. I used to drink a lot and even after not drinking for a couple years I can still consume more than I could before I started many moons ago.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 03, 2012, 04:52 am
I probably shouldnt have mentioned anything on numbers. I mearly wanted to establish Habit of Sanitary conditions.  I used :

CONVERSION BETWEEN OPIOID ANALGESICS
A practical guide from the University of Alberta Multidisciplinary Pain Centre
(A simpler scheme, used by the Regional Palliative Care Program can be found here)
Use this page to help solve the common problem of figuring out how to convert from one opioid to another, or from more than one drug to a new opioid. It should be noted that good generalisable data in this area is hard to get. The table is a simplified composite of published data, clinical impressions and informal consensus.
1. Make a list of the total amounts of each opioid drug currently being taken orally, rectally or transdermally in a 24 hr period. Count milligrams of each drug, whether being given as long- or short-acting preparations, scheduled or breakthrough. Injectable opioids get added in later. If there is only one drug, that's fine!
2. Look at the table below. Multiply the amount of each drug by its bioavailability (column 4), to get a smaller number. This is the number of milligrams that actually gets into the bloodstream. Remember that a 100 MICROGRAM fentanyl patch is 0.1 MILLIGRAMS of fentanyl PER HOUR.
3. Convert each number in your list to i.v. morphine equivalents, by using column 2. For example, if the bioavailable codeine dose is 100 mg, the i.v. morphine equivalent is 10mg
4. If any opioids are being given parenterally, add them to the list at this point, and convert them to i.v .morphine equivalents as well.
5. Add up the i.v. morphine equivalents. You should now have a single number in milligrams.
6. Reduce this number by 30%
7. Select your new drug.
8. Use column 2 to obtain the equivalent parenteral dose of the new drug. For example, if your reduced i.v. morphine dose was 50mg, the equivalent i.v. hydromorphone dose is 10mg.
9. Divide this number by the bioavailability of the new drug to get a bigger number, that being the oral 24 hour dose of the new drug. Some rounding of numbers is fine.
10. Divide this dose into long- and short-acting fractions as you see fit.
11. Use these steps as only a starting point. Apply careful clinical judgement and be prepared to adjust the dose of the new drug according to response. Remember that because of incomplete cross-tolerance, the starting dose of the new opioid should be reduced by about 30%.
DRUG
PARENTERAL DOSE (MG) EQUIVALENT TO 10 MG IV MORPHINE
ORAL DOSE EQUIVALENT TO 30 MG ORAL MORPHINE
BIOAVAILABILITY OF ORAL DOSAGE FORM
DOSING INTERVAL (HRS)
MORPHINE
10
30
0.3
3
ANILERIDINE (LERITINE)
25
75
0.3
3
CODEINE
100
300
0.3
3
DIAMORPHINE (HEROIN)
5
12.5
0.4
3
FENTANYL
0.1
-
-
1
HYDROMORPHONE (DILAUDID)
2
3
0.6
3
LEVORPHANOL
2
4
0.5
6-12
MEPERIDINE (DEMEROL)
80
250
0.3
3
METHADONE
2-10
2-10
1.0
8-12
OXYCODONE (PERCOCET OXYCONTIN)
10
12
0.8
3
PROPOXYPHENE (DARVON)
50
100
0.5
4
SUSTAINED RELEASE MORPHINE (MS CONTIN)
-
60
0.5
8-12

Palliative conversion table
Extracted from Alberta Hospice Palliative Care Resource ManualSecond edition (2001) http://www.palliative.org/PC/ClinicalInfo/ACB%20PC%20resource%20manual.pdf NB: The table below is a guideline only. Patient-to-patient variability occurs. Patients should therefore be monitored closely when their opioids are being switched. DrugPO DoseSC / IV DoseMorphine10 mg5 mgCodeine100 mg50 mgOxycodone5 mg-Hydromorphone2 mg1 mgMethadone1 mgToo irritatingFentanyl IV or PatchCheck manufacturers instructions100 mcg Note the ratio from oral to SC / IV is 2:1 on most occasions Back Home
http://www.uofapain.med.ualberta.ca/Palliativeconversiontable.htm4/30/2007 2:50:55 PM
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: kiwibacon on January 03, 2012, 12:51 pm
few questions bout your post...

firstly why dont you use wheel filters on pharms couldnt see that anywhere always thought that was a basic safety tip they only cost like $1 each at most?

and how come insulan needles why dont u just get whatever guage needles u want from local exchange. pesonally im a fan of 27 1/2's but depends on what im shooting

thanks...
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: E=daveC² on January 04, 2012, 12:08 pm
Smaller gauge needles cause less damage, scarring, bleeding, and pain. 30's are what I like.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: kiwibacon on January 04, 2012, 01:02 pm
wow i have no idea why i dont use 30s just my mates and me always used 27 1/2's how blond is that
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 05, 2012, 02:02 am
EDave, wheels are a Great idea. I didnt mention it cause for one, thet are Not that easy to come by..at least for me. I also stress using cotton filtering. If you do a side by side comparison of cotton filtered vs. Not, it's huge! Also, if your going to use a 20 gauge, 2 inch needle Kiwi, You could eventually collapse that vein as well as lots of un needed brusing. Try a 28 if your that set on the bigger ones. All in all, everyone has a "Ritual" when they shoot. I just want to have an honest discussion about IV Safety. I know everyone will disagree, but I felt I covered the basics.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: 100% American on January 05, 2012, 06:39 am
This is a really great guide to IVing stuff. I had a question though. I have been doing drugs for 10+ years and I was getting bored. So I started doing some shit IV. I did heroin and other opiates, ketamine, and mdma using IV. I IVed about 15 times total. I only IVed in the veins in my arm. I became bored of IVing so I dont IV any more but I have noticed that the veins in my arms look like they are gone now. Will they come back? Is there anything I can do to make them normal again?
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: jj06 on January 05, 2012, 06:50 am
Since we're talking about IV safety, it's probably a good idea to talk about abscesses. Eventually, just about every long term IV user will get one. An abscess is where the injection site become swollen and painful, due to an infection. Sometimes they resolve on their own, sometimes you can treat it yourself, and sometimes you really need medical attention.
When it's hard, you can follow a wait and see approach. It might go away. But if the top is soft, it needs attention. It needs to be drained. There's a couple ways to go about this. I've had success by using a large needle to suck some of the pus out and squeezing the rest out through the holes. If that option isn't viable, you can slice it open with a razor. It is absolutely critical that it is sterilized. Make sure it's bandaged with sterile gauze afterwards, change the dressing daily. Using this I've never had to go to the hospital, out of about 5 abscesses that progressed to the needs-treatment point, in 9 years of IV use.
If things continue to get worse, and it's turning purple or black, it's time to cut your losses and get professional help before you start losing body parts. It needs to be properly lanced and you need antibiotics. Even if you have antibiotics, they take days to work and only a culture of infection will show if you need different antibiotics- if you wait to see if yours will work, the damage could become irreparable. If you do happen to have a broad spectrum antibiotic, it's a good idea to start a course as long as it doesn't delay you from seeking treatment.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: jj06 on January 05, 2012, 06:54 am
This is a really great guide to IVing stuff. I had a question though. I have been doing drugs for 10+ years and I was getting bored. So I started doing some shit IV. I did heroin and other opiates, ketamine, and mdma using IV. I IVed about 15 times total. I only IVed in the veins in my arm. I became bored of IVing so I dont IV any more but I have noticed that the veins in my arms look like they are gone now. Will they come back? Is there anything I can do to make them normal again?

Were you ever unable to use veins? It's unlikely they would permanently collapse that quickly (at least the arm veins). They'll probably heal in a few weeks. It is possible to collapse them permanently; most of my arm veins have been completely gone for 5+ years, but it takes some heavy use and usually some bad habits, like re-using needles until the pain is excruciating, which was my problem.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: 100% American on January 05, 2012, 08:33 am
I was always able to use the veins but I stopped IVing all together once I noticed my veins looked like they were gone. I used small insulin needles every time I shot up and the only time I put the needle into my arm more than once was when I missed then I would try again. But I was throwing needles away after one use each time. I used to have veins that I could see easy but now I cant see where they are. Is there anything I can do to help them come back? What causes the veins to collapse?
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: E=daveC² on January 05, 2012, 01:02 pm
I'm surprised your veins collapsed from only 15 shots especially using new works each time. I've IV'd a lot more than that and don't have any collapsed veins and only one that's thick and scarred. Some people's veins collapse easier than others.

A good practice is to rotate injection sites to give the veins time to heal.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: LesbianRobot on January 07, 2012, 12:04 am
great post. i posted something similar in the H Vendor thread. It is nice to see some of us are still saving lives :)
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 09, 2012, 03:37 am
Thanx LR. I'm sure you have your very own "ritual" that probably differrs from mine. What happens to IV users (including myself) is we start taking shortcuts, get sloppy and the "safe process'" we followed at the beginning get blown off. Thing is, that very Ritual of safe IV'ing should be repeated over and over..no shortcuts.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: rabbitbow on January 09, 2012, 03:49 am
posts like these are always good, im glad i looked for them when i started IVing. its very intimidating to start off by yourself if you dont have a walk-through.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: jj06 on January 09, 2012, 07:15 am
Indeed. I never knew anyone who injected when I started up, so I learned from posts like these. Always good to have this information available.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: LesbianRobot on January 09, 2012, 02:18 pm
Thanx LR. I'm sure you have your very own "ritual" that probably differrs from mine. What happens to IV users (including myself) is we start taking shortcuts, get sloppy and the "safe process'" we followed at the beginning get blown off. Thing is, that very Ritual of safe IV'ing should be repeated over and over..no shortcuts.

yeah, my ritual is quick and easy...i shoot up directly into my eyeballs  :o
LMFAO

but seriously...yes we do all have a ritual, and sometimes we get in a hurry to get our fix/buzz on and we sometimes forget a step or just flat out skip it. Number one on this list when it come to IV'ing is definitely safety. Please everyone, always be safe!!!  8)
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: LesbianRobot on January 09, 2012, 02:57 pm
I'm surprised your veins collapsed from only 15 shots especially using new works each time. I've IV'd a lot more than that and don't have any collapsed veins and only one that's thick and scarred. Some people's veins collapse easier than others.

A good practice is to rotate injection sites to give the veins time to heal.

Honestly Dave, it just sounds more like he may have had low blood pressure instead of collapsed veins. I really do not think after shooting so few times that his veins would be collapsing. You and I both are very aware that when we are close to withdrawal or our diet hasn't been very good, etc. etc. etc. and all of the other things that lower blood pressure, it is very hard to get that flash of red to register. So with that said, I am sure his veins have no collapsed and it was just low blood pressure. Try Google'ing something like "Things that lower blood pressure" or something to that effect. I am sure your veins are perfectly fine 100%American, you probably just had low blood pressure.Let us know soon if you veins are looking normal again...

Cheers everyone, and please stay safe.

~LR

Pot Script - I also prefer 30 gauge...they are small enough to hardly cause any damage and little to no bruising. Also, they are big enough to actually draw up your choice of "solution" and fill the chamber at a desired level, however sometimes, depending on what kind of filter you use, it may draw up the solution a little slower than say a 28 gauge but is definitely better if you prefer not having big red dots or bruises on our bodies/injection site. Stay safe everyone a keep on keepin' on.  ;) :P 8)
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 10, 2012, 03:33 pm
Noobie Iv'er..my personal response is 2.5 mg.
Good Starting dose for Big Boy IV drugs, e.g., Heroin, Hydromorphone (diluadid) and Oxymorphone (opana).
You sent a PM, but I deleted it.

I tossed out that "safe number" assuming you are an Opiate Virgin.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: how-d on January 12, 2012, 05:14 pm
 I assume that dosage would fall under the safety thread...


Anyway, I just got my hands on some #3 or #4 from wumg00 and haven't tried it yet. I hear that this is fire and to be extra careful.

I have a lot of IV experience, and very little H experience. It has been 15 years since I've IV'd H and even then it was in low dosages prepared by other people. So this isnt a question so much about how to fix, but rather one of dosage.

The question is...What is a good, safe dose of his product for someone without an established tolerance?
Also, I got 1/2g so how many doses can I get out of that?

I'm looking for feedback from those familiar with his gear preferably, but feedback from all is welcome.

Thanks in advance for the responses.

Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 12, 2012, 06:27 pm
Quote
The question is...What is a good, safe dose of his product for someone without an established tolerance?
Also, I got 1/2g so how many doses can I get out of that?

I'm looking for feedback from those familiar with his gear preferably, but feedback from all

Very, very familiar with wumg00's stuff. Very nice stuff indeed.

IMHO, I would start with No More than 2 Match heads (yes, like the matches you use to start a cigg or a grill) worth of H. Add a little more than 1 CC/ML to your spoon. Follow a Safety Routine or Ritual as outlined in this post using cotton or wheels if you have them.

Remember, you can always go up, but if your over buzz you wont be coming back.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 12, 2012, 06:34 pm
Quote
Add a little more than 1 CC/ML to your spoon. Follow a Safety Routine or Ritual as outlined in this post using cotton or wheels if you have them.

Left out the active ingrediant called WATER...1 cc/ml and a tad for loss of liquid in cotton.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: how-d on January 12, 2012, 08:38 pm

Quote
IMHO, I would start with No More than 2 Match heads (yes, like the matches you use to start a cigg or a grill) worth of H.

Thank you, oppyate.
Does  about 10mg sound right to start or do you think I should go lower with his product?
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 12, 2012, 10:09 pm
how-d...
10 mgs sounds about right if your accurate as hell (use of a digital scale) and are Not an Opiate Virgin.  Keep this in Mind.

10 mgs of Morphine= 5 milligrams of Diamorphone (H)= 2 milligrams of Hydromorphone

So, if your going to use about a Pinky's Nail Worth (about 10 mgs) than your taking on a pretty big hit. If your using 10mgs of H and one full CC/ML of water, you should consider administering .5CC's (half CC)..wait 15-20 minutes to see how your body is after the initial Rush. If your body can take the additional brunt after 20 mins, then you should be cool. I Am Assuming you've already built up some Tolerance to opiates right?
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: how-d on January 13, 2012, 09:38 pm
how-d...
10 mgs sounds about right if your accurate as hell (use of a digital scale) and are Not an Opiate Virgin.  Keep this in Mind.

10 mgs of Morphine= 5 milligrams of Diamorphone (H)= 2 milligrams of Hydromorphone

So, if your going to use about a Pinky's Nail Worth (about 10 mgs) than your taking on a pretty big hit. If your using 10mgs of H and one full CC/ML of water, you should consider administering .5CC's (half CC)..wait 15-20 minutes to see how your body is after the initial Rush. If your body can take the additional brunt after 20 mins, then you should be cool. I Am Assuming you've already built up some Tolerance to opiates right?

Thank you for the reply.

I am not an Opiate Virgin. I used to have quite the tolerance. However, since I haven't used opiates in quite a while, I assume that my current tolerance is probably back to nil.

I can make an accurate measure with a digi scale, but want to be respectful of wumg00's product to make sure I don't over do it.
Would you say that .05 would be a safe starting point considering the potency of his product and the lack of tolerance on my part or is that still to high?
Man, that must be good stuff. I've been holding off trying it until I get enough feedback. I wouldn't want to get a one way trip and would love to be able to confidently and repeatedly enjoy what is obviously good stuff.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: oppyate on January 14, 2012, 12:21 am
If you take some time and review H Forums, you'll find I was actually the very first One to try his stuff. I used 2 fat match heads (probably 6-8 milligrams) and the rush was insane and the H high was awsome. Take 2 match heads, 1 cc of water and call me in the morning.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: MC Haberdasher on August 31, 2012, 11:45 am
Does anyone have experience with IV Demerol?

Like, can you just crush em like a roxy and shoot em, or is it a bit more involved?
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: wasta on September 03, 2012, 01:43 am
A bush-docter-medicineman is not qualified to give instructions.

Everybody can say a few words, it is up to you, to who do you listen to.

My advice (but I 'm not qualified either) is to take your do's and do not's, only from the professionals.

Mainline !

http://www.mainline.nl/en/training-and-expertise/other-activities/workshop-on-safe-injection-practices.html

Wasta
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety
Post by: OffMyProgram on September 14, 2012, 07:01 pm
It's kind of weird but I just started back up after close to 20 years and my tolerance seems to be right where it left off.  I barely feel a 4mg dilaudid and have to do two.  I was wondering why at the hospital post surgery 5 years ago, I was always in pain despite a normal human dose of morphine.  Tolerance is a fucked up thing.
Title: Re: IV Injection Safety - Research
Post by: HarmReduction on September 15, 2012, 12:26 pm
This is a great thread , its threads like this that as a worker I continue to learn, I noticed in one of the posts there was a mention of wheel filters here is a you tube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7dtxTGJpw4 also . Not sure which country everyone is from and if its white or brown H . Here in Ireland its brown H so citric or Vit C is always used. In the UK and here we have had a number of MCAT / Mephedrone injectors , Mephedrone is water soluble and if its heated it turns to jelly and this can cause the increased risk to clotting of the veins, mephedrone has re bound element to it we were seeing people injecting upto 16 times a day it was mad .....

On another matter I am involved in some research at the moment about people buying from SR this is anonymous and I can be contacted either via DM or via tormail hrireland@tormail.org, I have had a number of people respond and it would be great to get some more . If you would like more details as I said DM or email me Thanks

Remember the higher the Gauge of the pin the less damage your do and always rotate the sites and always use a new needle , it hurts less and wont leave track marks