Silk Road forums

Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 24, 2013, 01:04 am

Title: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 24, 2013, 01:04 am
Hello travelers .. so good to find SR since I haven't been around a close group of friends that trip in a long time.. life has spread us away but the Road here unites us all

I see a lot of talk of ego-death with LSD..  that isn't really true.   What you are seeing is the removal of your environmental personality.  Your instinctual personality stays and is re-enforced.  Most people have a crafted ego though from their environmental experiences so when they say ego-death, that is what's really happening.  You take a vacation from any false ego you created from attaching to your scene, or environment

For those of us who never let go of independent thought, and only relate oneself to their instinctual persona, we gain strong waves of validation of ourselves as we get to relax from shielding the environment from influencing our actions and beliefs.  Our egos actually show a high level of confidence in this state..

hope this allows more people to gain insight into their true self and to 'bring back' themselves after their trip is over and engage life with it more and more
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: hchoman on August 24, 2013, 03:30 am
Very interesting...+1 if I could
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: DanDanTheIceCreamMan on August 25, 2013, 02:39 am
+1 brother, well said.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Chewable on August 25, 2013, 03:17 am
I think the same way, I have always believed many people are who they are because of the reflection they see when they interact with others..its that reflection that makes people do or say things that they feel they need to do to fit in to this world .Its only when we can remove all those layers, can we see who we are...The farther away you are from yourself the bigger the ego loss.. Sometimes it takes many trips to crack that shell. 

But in either event ego loss is ego loss...crafted or not...when you are well grounded, having ego loss is like reminding yourself that you are not the center. 

 
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ireallygotthemunchies on August 25, 2013, 10:01 am
meks me feel empti man like thers sumtim missin u get me
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Shaggy Shaman on August 27, 2013, 05:10 pm
Hello travelers .. so good to find SR since I haven't been around a close group of friends that trip in a long time.. life has spread us away but the Road here unites us all

I see a lot of talk of ego-death with LSD..  that isn't really true.   What you are seeing is the removal of your environmental personality.  Your instinctual personality stays and is re-enforced.  Most people have a crafted ego though from their environmental experiences so when they say ego-death, that is what's really happening.  You take a vacation from any false ego you created from attaching to your scene, or environment

For those of us who never let go of independent thought, and only relate oneself to their instinctual persona, we gain strong waves of validation of ourselves as we get to relax from shielding the environment from influencing our actions and beliefs.  Our egos actually show a high level of confidence in this state..

hope this allows more people to gain insight into their true self and to 'bring back' themselves after their trip is over and engage life with it more and more

+1 for you!

Excellent breakdown. Most people don't think of the ego as their personality, but that is the case. With focused intention, one may achieve a constant, pure state of what you call the instinctual personality. It is very intuitive and powerful.

SS
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: DanDanTheIceCreamMan on August 27, 2013, 05:17 pm
Random question, but which do you prefer, A strong acid trip or a strong mushroom trip? And why?
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 27, 2013, 09:03 pm
Random question, but which do you prefer, A strong acid trip or a strong mushroom trip? And why?

For me it would be the strong acid trip since it goes in line from what I wrote above. Makes it easy to get into that pure state. It's beautiful.

But with friends that aren't into deep conversations, strong mushroom trips is the merry bandwagon of choice  :D


@ Shaggy.. much love..  the pure state!
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Shaggy Shaman on August 29, 2013, 07:15 pm
@WaterWalker: Much love back!

I like both, but for me its the other way. Acid is for more social times while shrooms are deep. I use both in my shamanism, like different tools in a toolbox.

SS
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on August 29, 2013, 09:41 pm
All I can say is that I've experienced a complete abandonment of Ego when I had too much (20 hits)  of Acid. I was gone, there was nothing in control anymore. When I lost my ego, I couldn't see; I thought I was blind. At once I was experiencing another reality, one without decisions just reactions (which I wasn't completely aware of). The blindness turned into constantly shifting synesthesia.  I was aware of my surrounding but seeing through sound, hearing through smell and then that would change -I'd see through touch, or my thoughts were strong smells. It's very hard to describe and there was a period where I blacked out and I have no memory. When I started coming back to reality I found that I destroyed my apartment, and I thought that God was punishing me and I was in hell.

It's not completely without benefit.  View "Journey of the Wounded Healer" by Alex Grey. I died and was reborn.  I didn't do acid for a long time after that, but when I did -I had a respect for the drug. I have no desire to do that much ever again.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on August 29, 2013, 10:58 pm
Holy jesus Bluto  umm. Welcome Back!  :D

I think everyone will have to expand their trip scale from what you just been through...  I think I will never go Full Bluto.. maybe half someday  ...it's like you took some violent storm from Venus and threw it onto Earth and then asked what the Weather Channel had to say about that..

I did find what you said about the world of reactions and no decisions very interesting and there could be a very deep link to instinctual personality / pure state that you uncovered...  very deep digging indeed though.. like a preconscious state with a side of scrambled DNA

you got me putting on my psychonaut gear and itching to travel further and report back...since I actually strengthen my ego on normal doses, I wonder what the hell happens if I go half Bluto

Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on August 30, 2013, 02:34 am
I went to a very good psychiatrist after that.  There is a saturation point with LSD. A point at which you can not go any further. Twenty hits was well beyond that point. It's possible to build up a tolerance, slowly. The case with my Ego Death was not one of those instances. I took 20 hits at once (after buying a sheet) and the amount I did previously to that day was 1 hit the weekend before.

The ego that died was the ego that did those 20 hits. Basically, I was trying to show off my toughness to a crowd of people. "See, I can do this." That kid is dead. My life has been completely altered by what happened on that day. I really can't say anymore because I don't want some DEA agent to figure out who I am.

Some people call it a 'bad trip'. That is not really what happened. It was a mediocre trip but I took way too much.

Nothing would have changed my mind before I put those tabs on my tongue. I was full of reckless fun. However, if you do proceed, just be cautious. Have some sober friends ready to hold you down, for instance.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: 8447948 on August 30, 2013, 03:24 am
Fair play bluto, you went far! were you looking for anything or just to show off as you put it?
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: neplusultra on August 30, 2013, 03:30 am
So what happens on DMT, isn't that full ego death?
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on August 30, 2013, 03:41 am


Fair play bluto, you went far! were you looking for anything or just to show off as you put it?

I thought I could handle anything that was thrown at me.  The problem is... at that point during the week since I had last done acid -I was dealing with things that were tangible. I wasn't thinking about the repercussions, the non-tangibles so-to-speak.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on August 30, 2013, 03:43 am
So what happens on DMT, isn't that full ego death?

To be honest, I've been afraid to try DMT because of what happened to me that day. i am also cautious of Salvia.

DMT is a different drug for sure.  I am getting back to nature in a lot of ways. Perhaps, I'll try a hit in the woods.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: jhancock1984 on August 30, 2013, 03:11 pm
I've found ego death to be easiest to achieve on mushrooms and DMT personally.  Take a few hits of DMT, lay back, and just let go.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: adamiz on August 30, 2013, 07:56 pm
So what happens on DMT, isn't that full ego death?

I would like to hear the answer to this s well.
Great thread by the way waterwalker! +1

All the best,

Adamiz
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Real_Drugs on September 01, 2013, 02:58 am
DMT is everything and anything.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: seafrog92 on September 01, 2013, 03:12 am
DMT, i prefer LSD for a nice long mellow type. load .04 of DMT onto a bowl and the next ten minutes of your life will be unforgetable.

i imagined myself inside of a crystal ball, trying to look out. laughing hysterically the whole time:)
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: adamiz on September 04, 2013, 11:43 am
Before I joined SR I didn't know about terms such as ego death and breaking through.
I had tried LSD before but it was more about partying and so. After some orders I made I realized that lsd isn't about partying but something deeper. Although I haven't ever tried more than 200ug of LSD I have never had such feelings of ego deaths. I don't know what will happen if I take stronger doses but hopefully in the future I will try.

The last 2 months I have been experimenting with DMT. Since money is not an option, I can't buy a GVG pipe and therefore I use the machine method. I have done almost 1-1,5g and still not achieved this so called break through. Almost all tries are full of visuals and uncontrollable thoughts. My best experience was one day when I did DMT after 6 hours I had taken a 140ug LSD tab. That was something strong! It was not any kind of ego death but only a deep understanding of what was important for myself this period. If anyone is interested you can read my report here:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=179972.msg1409935#msg1409935

I wont lie, but terms such as ego death and break through had got my attention for a while and really tried hard to experience those. In the end, I have come to the conclusion that the more you try to achieve these terms the more impossible is to experience them. Psychedelics are mind altering substances and when you try to force so deep emotions usually you fail. Finally psychedelics should be used when you are in a state of calmness and awareness and not when you really trying to achieve such deep terms. Meditation always helps.

At least that is what I have understand from my experiences.

All the best,

Adamiz
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on September 04, 2013, 09:12 pm
Greetings Adamiz

As I said in the first post, not everyone will get an ego death.. it depends on how your main ego is constructed.  If it has anything to do with exterior/environmental constructs, you may very well experience ego-death as that is removed and you are left with a self identity that has been neglected

If you feel a bit empowered and assured on LSD, then your main ego is based on your instinctual personality or 'pure state'.  All the chains around you are tossed to the side during your trip, but not your ego since it isn't attached to those chains

As for DMT breakthrough, I think it will call you when you are ready.  I haven't broken thru either but I have gain strong messages bith times I have dosed.. and once was on LSD too which is really the way to go I believe



Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: OldIsGold on September 04, 2013, 10:32 pm
All I can say is that I've experienced a complete abandonment of Ego when I had too much (20 hits)  of Acid. I was gone, there was nothing in control anymore. When I lost my ego, I couldn't see; I thought I was blind. At once I was experiencing another reality, one without decisions just reactions (which I wasn't completely aware of). The blindness turned into constantly shifting synesthesia.  I was aware of my surrounding but seeing through sound, hearing through smell and then that would change -I'd see through touch, or my thoughts were strong smells. It's very hard to describe and there was a period where I blacked out and I have no memory. When I started coming back to reality I found that I destroyed my apartment, and I thought that God was punishing me and I was in hell.

It's not completely without benefit.  View "Journey of the Wounded Healer" by Alex Grey. I died and was reborn.  I didn't do acid for a long time after that, but when I did -I had a respect for the drug. I have no desire to do that much ever again.

Amen brother
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: adamiz on September 04, 2013, 10:39 pm
If you feel a bit empowered and assured on LSD, then your main ego is based on your instinctual personality or 'pure state'.  All the chains around you are tossed to the side during your trip, but not your ego since it isn't attached to those chains

Well sometimes I have this feelings and sometimes I feel just hyperactive. Although I have never tried a bigger dose than 200-250ug. Do you think I should do it? And neither tried mushrooms as well.

As for DMT breakthrough, I think it will call you when you are ready.  I haven't broken thru either but I have gain strong messages bith times I have dosed.. and once was on LSD too which is really the way to go I believe

As for DMT, I have some hard times with it. Usually there is a lot of thinking during my trip and very seldom some meaningful messages. Maybe it is because I use the Machine method or maybe because I can't have the total experience because my mind and thoughts block it. But I totally agree that with you that the combo LSD and DMT is the way to go. That one time I did it was absolutely fantastic.

Have a nice night/day

Adamiz
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: TSX on September 08, 2013, 11:01 pm
I never understood what ego death is suppose to mean. I heard a term called "Ozeanische Selbstauflösung" a couple years ago, the first word kind of gives me some insight when I think about the ocean and the water. So you are not able to distinguish from you and the outside world with the feeling that everything that exists is one, would that be a valid description?

People seem to love it generally, I read may posts here saying it was a good experience for them. I'm super scared I have to say. I had my first LSD experience about 2-3 weeks ago with heavy candy flipping and at the end I had about 400µg which I can hardly believe, maybe it was the super heavy combinations with MDMA and absurd amounts of cannabis that suppressed the LSD a lot or I wasted it a bit by only taking 1/4 or 1/2 of a blotter at once and then waiting for ... hours before taking more, I don't know.
This does not mean it was bad, oh no it wasn't, it was the most monumental, warm, safe, seemingly infinitely beautiful, paradox and magical thing I ever had the luck to experience.

Also this is about as imaginable as things like the outside of the universe or the inside of a black hole for the human mind, at least for mine. I guess it is one of these things you have to experience to understand them. But that is nothing new when it comes to psychedelics. ;)
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: DrWalterB on September 09, 2013, 06:10 pm
+1 to OP :) definitely something to think about.

@ adamiz gonna check your DMT report have been thinkin of trying this myself 8)
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: adamiz on September 09, 2013, 07:27 pm
+1 to OP :) definitely something to think about.

@ adamiz gonna check your DMT report have been thinkin of trying this myself 8)

If I would suggest any substance for someone to try it would be DMT.
Despite the fact that it is one of the safest, it is also one of the most extraordinary!
Need a lot of research in how to take though :)

Good luck!
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: TSX on September 09, 2013, 07:54 pm
If I would suggest any substance for someone to try it would be DMT.
Despite the fact that it is one of the safest, it is also one of the most extraordinary!

Safer than LSD?
LSD is like 6-12h and DMT smoked is like 10+ minutes (and hours of aftermath?) but does that make it safer if it's way more intense than let's say LSD? I would think that LSD is safer even tho it lasts so much longer. I kind of get it that the short effect duration makes people say it's safer than [insert substance here]. But on the other hand if it is so uber intense and has these extreme time misconceptions while on it than I don't think it is more safe than other psychedelics.

Maybe someday I'll find out by myself.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: adamiz on September 09, 2013, 10:22 pm
Without any actual scientific knowledge, I would say yes. I think it is safer than LSD. Although LSD has nothing so dangerous, it is as well one safe substance. But still, I believe DMT is 99% safe. The 1% is for the mental shock of the astonishment you might have :)

Still, I don't have anything to prove my words. My opinion is based on what I have read and what other experienced psychedelic users around here say.

Let's hope somebody can enlighten us on this matter.

All the best,

Adamiz
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on September 09, 2013, 11:47 pm

Let's hope somebody can enlighten us on this matter.

All the best,

Adamiz

You're never given a dream without also being given the power to make it true.
― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah―


just jumping in to +1 you on your sig..   that book is a drug everyone should take  ;)
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: GGGreenbud on September 10, 2013, 12:02 am
        Personally, "Ego Death" never really meant anything until I tried psilocybin for the 3rd or 4th time, ate about 6gm of cubes, and even though I had tripped on LSD many times, even put into a trance state, and lost all trace of ego, the 'ego death' from shrooms was something I was not prepared for, much more profound in nature.  The self ceased to exist as an object, I felt very, very, alone, so much that I questioned my own existence and whether the event was even happening, during a 3 block walk to some steps where I sat, alone in the universe.  Perhaps it was the angry mob of  people who had threatened my friend, which catapulted me into this state, and in my hasty escape, I found ego death in the in-between of a very safe place, a courtyard in an apt. building where we knew everyone, out onto the cold streets alone.   I returned to find a beer and drink it, swatted away a camcorder, and told my friend that I was "Tired of contemplating my existence, and getting drunk."  This was when I lost it, not during the 600ug solo acid trip, not in the trance, and certainly not through any other experience up until that point.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: adamiz on September 10, 2013, 10:01 am
You're never given a dream without also being given the power to make it true.
― Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah―
just jumping in to +1 you on your sig..   that book is a drug everyone should take  ;)

It is indeed a great book!
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: DrWalterB on September 10, 2013, 02:00 pm
just found it as a .pdf, will have to give it a read :)
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Isobetadine on September 11, 2013, 01:22 am
Hello travelers .. so good to find SR since I haven't been around a close group of friends that trip in a long time.. life has spread us away but the Road here unites us all

I see a lot of talk of ego-death with LSD..  that isn't really true.   What you are seeing is the removal of your environmental personality.  Your instinctual personality stays and is re-enforced.  Most people have a crafted ego though from their environmental experiences so when they say ego-death, that is what's really happening.  You take a vacation from any false ego you created from attaching to your scene, or environment

For those of us who never let go of independent thought, and only relate oneself to their instinctual persona, we gain strong waves of validation of ourselves as we get to relax from shielding the environment from influencing our actions and beliefs.  Our egos actually show a high level of confidence in this state..

hope this allows more people to gain insight into their true self and to 'bring back' themselves after their trip is over and engage life with it more and more

UUHHGG..
That post get's another +1 from me,it gives me a strong wave of validation in itself :D.

You get one too Dr. Bisschop for your nick and ava,probably of my favorite fictional characters of all time:).
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on September 20, 2013, 12:54 am
        Personally, "Ego Death" never really meant anything until I tried psilocybin for the 3rd or 4th time, ate about 6gm of cubes, and even though I had tripped on LSD many times, even put into a trance state, and lost all trace of ego, the 'ego death' from shrooms was something I was not prepared for, much more profound in nature.  The self ceased to exist as an object, I felt very, very, alone, so much that I questioned my own existence and whether the event was even happening, during a 3 block walk to some steps where I sat, alone in the universe.  Perhaps it was the angry mob of  people who had threatened my friend, which catapulted me into this state, and in my hasty escape, I found ego death in the in-between of a very safe place, a courtyard in an apt. building where we knew everyone, out onto the cold streets alone.   I returned to find a beer and drink it, swatted away a camcorder, and told my friend that I was "Tired of contemplating my existence, and getting drunk."  This was when I lost it, not during the 600ug solo acid trip, not in the trance, and certainly not through any other experience up until that point.

" The self ceased to exist as an object, I felt very, very, alone, so much that I questioned my own existence and whether the event was even happening"

I think it's possible that we don't exist at least as our ego perceives ourselves.. I know that perhaps sober minds may snicker at this -but we are just a collection of matter and energy -no different in substance than warm dirt. The awakening that one may experience is to do something with one's life. Perhaps that is the lesson that I should have learned.

(Just trying to stay positive)
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: jhancock1984 on September 23, 2013, 09:33 pm
Honesty I find this topic a bit silly.  Describing an ineffable experience is impossible to begin with.  But going a step further and saying everyone who would describe it differently than you is operating under a misconception?

Really?

Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on September 23, 2013, 11:50 pm
Honesty I find this topic a bit silly.  Describing an ineffable experience is impossible to begin with.  But going a step further and saying everyone who would describe it differently than you is operating under a misconception?

Really?

Yes, they're all different and hard to describe. Describing the experience is a challenge, even -but not completely ineffable. Why don't you try it? I like to hear other people's experience with LSD.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: jhancock1984 on September 24, 2013, 01:36 am
Most of my experience with high dose states of mind comes from DMT rather than LSD.  So my experience may differ quite a bit from your own Bluto.  But I don't think the experience itself can be described because when you're that high on psychedelics you can't form words or associate concepts appropriately.  Your sense of me and not me breaks down into monism.  I'm not even sure ego death is the right word as it implies the experience is without your ego when, for me at least, it's more like your ego has been gently dissolved (or violently if I'm not letting go) into the fabric of everything.

Why I think this is so profound is because it allows people to see that when all of their ideas, thoughts, and concepts about things are gone there's still something there.  What this means is..  well it has as many different meanings as their are people on the planet and everyone is going to see it differently.  Which is why I find the topic kinda silly.  Not because I don't see Waterwalker's perspective but because he dismisses all other perspectives as misconceptions.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on September 24, 2013, 10:16 pm
Not because I don't see Waterwalker's perspective but because he dismisses all other perspectives as misconceptions.

Not quite, you didn't even mention the difference of instinctual vs environmental personality traits which is the basis of my post...  so you kinda prove my point actually

those that avoid groupthink, conditioned responses, etc and choose rather to constantly challenge and validate their independent thoughts against their instinctual personality (or 'pure state' as another named it) do not have that dissolving of the ego as you mentioned.. it is the opposite.

That is why I created this thread. To shine a light on that.  Call it silly if you like, but it is real as rent.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on September 25, 2013, 12:07 am
Not because I don't see Waterwalker's perspective but because he dismisses all other perspectives as misconceptions.

Not quite, you didn't even mention the difference of instinctual vs environmental personality traits which is the basis of my post...  so you kinda prove my point actually

those that avoid groupthink, conditioned responses, etc and choose rather to constantly challenge and validate their independent thoughts against their instinctual personality (or 'pure state' as another named it) do not have that dissolving of the ego as you mentioned.. it is the opposite.

That is why I created this thread. To shine a light on that.  Call it silly if you like, but it is real as rent.

In (ancient) computer science there is something called a pointer. When I had my "freakout" I had what I call a pointer to this reality. A point of reference that told me who I was and what I was feeling. Through synesthesia -I lost the constantly shifting pointer to myself. I had no idea who or what or where I was.  I guess in some way I was "liberated" from the confinement of identity.

I really like thinking about this btw. It borders on thinking about death and what it would be like to not be here. Sometimes I think that I really died on that day and that this -all I have known afterwords- is some freaky near death hallucination.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: jhancock1984 on September 25, 2013, 03:54 am
Not quite, you didn't even mention the difference of instinctual vs environmental personality traits which is the basis of my post...  so you kinda prove my point actually

those that avoid groupthink, conditioned responses, etc and choose rather to constantly challenge and validate their independent thoughts against their instinctual personality (or 'pure state' as another named it) do not have that dissolving of the ego as you mentioned.. it is the opposite.

That is why I created this thread. To shine a light on that.  Call it silly if you like, but it is real as rent.

I find starting a thread called ego death misconceptions and acting as though you're all enlightened for having experienced something one way while denouncing all other experiences as false to be quite silly yes.

And really all you're saying, to me at least, is that you're guarded and skeptical and it's nice to get really high because it gives you a chance to relax. 

That perspective shit is a funny thing ain't it?
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Bluto on September 25, 2013, 02:21 pm
Not quite, you didn't even mention the difference of instinctual vs environmental personality traits which is the basis of my post...  so you kinda prove my point actually

those that avoid groupthink, conditioned responses, etc and choose rather to constantly challenge and validate their independent thoughts against their instinctual personality (or 'pure state' as another named it) do not have that dissolving of the ego as you mentioned.. it is the opposite.

That is why I created this thread. To shine a light on that.  Call it silly if you like, but it is real as rent.

I find starting a thread called ego death misconceptions and acting as though you're all enlightened for having experienced something one way while denouncing all other experiences as false to be quite silly yes.

And really all you're saying, to me at least, is that you're guarded and skeptical and it's nice to get really high because it gives you a chance to relax. 

That perspective shit is a funny thing ain't it?

I don't get the "denouncing" aspect. I mean I don't see it. Perhaps it's the anonymous veneer of the internet that makes me immune to feeling hurt by an online discussion. Perhaps, I am used to far worse criticism form people who do not share our pastimes.

Can we discuss our experiences without denouncing anyone? Can we develop some thicker skin against perceived criticisms? I mean, can't we all just get along?
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on September 25, 2013, 04:27 pm
Not quite, you didn't even mention the difference of instinctual vs environmental personality traits which is the basis of my post...  so you kinda prove my point actually

those that avoid groupthink, conditioned responses, etc and choose rather to constantly challenge and validate their independent thoughts against their instinctual personality (or 'pure state' as another named it) do not have that dissolving of the ego as you mentioned.. it is the opposite.

That is why I created this thread. To shine a light on that.  Call it silly if you like, but it is real as rent.

I find starting a thread called ego death misconceptions and acting as though you're all enlightened for having experienced something one way while denouncing all other experiences as false to be quite silly yes.

And really all you're saying, to me at least, is that you're guarded and skeptical and it's nice to get really high because it gives you a chance to relax. 

That perspective shit is a funny thing ain't it?

you still haven't expressed any insight since I guess you don't have any so you feel no one else should either..  enjoy trying to derail the thread

@ Bluto:  Your posts have added plenty to this thread, I'll elaborate more after Johnny Cockhead gets tired of being a vapid fuck.. he probably has the same trips whether on nitrous balloons or acid, definitely sounds like someone that has to be 'trip sit' if you know what I mean



Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: jhancock1984 on September 25, 2013, 05:09 pm
lol..  now you've degenerated into outright name calling.  I should rest my case but I suppose I won't because hey, who doesn't like a good argument.

The reason I find this thread silly is because it's not about discussion.  It's not about sharing experiences.  It's about one person saying that the way he sees it is the only way and that anyone that sees it differently is wrong.  It's about one person showing off their pet hypothesis and killing all further conversation.

If this thread was about sharing experiences and insight I would be happy to share.  But it's not.  It's about Water Walker stroking his own ego and sadly a bunch of people jumped on that train, because as Water Walker pointed out in the beginning, thinking for yourself is hard.

But as long as we're starting a shit storm I'll throw some.

I really don't think you've ever experienced ego death Water Walker.  I think you fuck around with low doses that inflate your ego and you have no idea what people are talking about when they relate high dose experiences with DMT, Shrooms, or LSD.  You act as though you could drop a ten strip and function.  Because in this state your 'true self' is revealed.  I suspect that you're young and still believe you're invincible.  That you still feel as though you have nothing to lose.  When I was young LSD affected me much the same way.  Then I realized I was mortal and shit got a lot more real.

As to needing a sitter I take 30mg plus doses of 2c-e and when I start to get anxiety I remind myself, I could die at any fucking time, sober or otherwise.  But you know what, I still dose with a sitter.  You know why?  Because I'm a responsible fucking adult.  Not a reckless kid.

Sorry, I'll shut up now so we can get back to watching WaterWalker stroke his ego.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: echo_ on September 25, 2013, 06:43 pm
My psychedelic dick is bigger than your psychedelic dick.

Have some respect for the learning process. If a person is really stroking their ego, let them do it. We've all done it. Don't say you haven't.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: jhancock1984 on September 25, 2013, 08:03 pm
My psychedelic dick is bigger than your psychedelic dick.

Have some respect for the learning process. If a person is really stroking their ego, let them do it. We've all done it. Don't say you haven't.

You're right and I shouldn't get into poo flinging contests.  It's pretty silly.

Let me start again.  Water Walker, the only issue I take with this thread is that it's presumptuous.  You're not saying, hey, this is my experience and my perspective.  This is how I see things.  You're saying this is how things are and if you don't agree with me you must have a misconception.  And I happen to like your perspective.  I think it's a neat take on things and an interesting hypothesis.  But, in my opinion, it closes off communication.  It doesn't allow for openness and sharing.  Because you've already proposed that anyone that disagrees with you is operating under a misconception.

Anyway that's that.  If you want to throw more poo at me and tear down my position go for it.  I won't defend myself.  If we can turn this around into a civil conversation I'll participate.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: moonflower on September 26, 2013, 08:50 pm
lsd is most certainly capable of ego dissolution. it just takes a much higher dose than with tryptamines. low to common doses of lsd tend to make your ego very permeable, without dissolving it. if you truly believe you cannot experience ego death on lsd, then you haven't done a large enough dose. :P
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: mrxempire on September 27, 2013, 01:52 am
So, is an ego death a positive or negative experience? I've heard some people say that it was an enjoyable experience for them, while others say that it was sad, or even terrifying. I don't believe that I have experienced this phenomena yet, even though one time I took 600 micrograms of LSD by mistake and freaked the hell out. I still knew who I was, even though i was like babbling incoherently to my friend.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: jhancock1984 on September 27, 2013, 03:55 pm
Ego death, in my opinion, is a state of profound relaxation were the lines between you and not you blur.  There's no sense of danger because there's nothing outside of yourself to threaten you and there's really no you to be threatened.  Just one giant universal orgy of awesomeness.

On the other hand, and again this is just my opinion, most people are wired into a survival trip as Hunter S. Thompson would say.  We're literally wired to constantly be alert, on the look out for danger, constantly analyzing rather all the 'not-mes' are a threat to us.  Letting our guard down so completely can be terrifying.  Because it feels like surrendering to death and really you are.  You're surrendering to the experience and allowing whatever happens to happen.

This is why set and setting are so important.  The person needs to be in a mind set and environment that they can get really comfortable, let go, and relax.

Now all of that said I imagine a high enough dose could force ego death on someone.  In which case you'd probably have a flux of terrifying vs. relaxed states as your consciousness flirts with letting go which could be very frightening when you have no idea who you are, where you are, etc. etc. because you're entire universe has been over run by fractals.  For some this flux state feels like dying (white light experiences, life flashing before their eyes, etc. etc.).   On the other hand the first time I really let go was the first time I smoked DMT because it was so intense I had to just let go and enjoy the ride.

Another way of thinking about it is like a roller coaster.  You strap in for the ride and once you're on the ride there's really no getting off.  You can either let go and have a good time or spend the length of the trip fighting the experience and wishing it was over.  The higher the dose the bigger the roller coaster and the more terrifying it will be for some but the more amazing it will be for others.  It's all a matter of your willingness to let go.

Anyway that's my experiences with it.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: TSX on September 27, 2013, 04:33 pm
Great post, I guess I should start reading your text walls because I was always like TL; DR. Thanks! :)
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: moonflower on September 27, 2013, 06:59 pm
So, is an ego death a positive or negative experience? I've heard some people say that it was an enjoyable experience for them, while others say that it was sad, or even terrifying. I don't believe that I have experienced this phenomena yet, even though one time I took 600 micrograms of LSD by mistake and freaked the hell out. I still knew who I was, even though i was like babbling incoherently to my friend.
whether ego death is a positive or negative experience depends entirely on your mind. if you are open and accepting of the experience, it will be pure bliss. the converse is also true. to me there's nothing more liberating than dissolving the ego and becoming one with everything.
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: GGGreenbud on September 28, 2013, 02:44 am
  Let us not forget that ego loss =/= extreme depersonalization.   I think you can have depersonalization, it is certainly an element of ego loss, in that you are separated from your construct-laden self, but depersonalization is a dissociative disorder, however temporary, and on its own does not particularly lead to the kind of profound experience of oneness with the universe that we are talking about here.  I don't even know how many times I've experienced true ego-loss, maybe 20 times, out of ~120 trips(I lost count a long, long time ago.)  A few times I got so depersonalized that I had serious problems relating to anything, let alone the universe.  Just a bit of food for thought. 
Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: Krazys on October 01, 2013, 08:34 am
Interesting thread.

As my name states; I am a "crazy" person. A psychological outlier, my experiences are abby normal to say the least. This applies to psychedelics, interpersonal relations, watching a sunset, and simply thinking about what to have for lunch.

For some people an acid induced "ego death" is a very bad thing. Rather than the parts of themselves reintegrating into a (better) person they fly off into the either or end up in a jumble on the floor... and stay that way. Hell, there are people that shouldn't smoke pot. And yes; for some people it can be a wonderful and transformative experience.

I'm closer to the OPs description than to the "ego death" model. But I can see where the wording came across as a bit condescending. Although no more so than the "no ego death = you are a small dose light weight" crowd. There is a much greater variety in mental OS and architecture than most people think.

Krazy(s)


Title: Re: LSD - ego death misconception
Post by: ~o~WaterWalker~o~ on October 03, 2013, 01:15 am
Yes this thread was created to shine a light, not degrade.  But many thin skin people exist who get offended unless you approach with a list of hand holding disclaimers. That's all I will say about the dust up here.

With the current circumstances of SR, normally I wouldn't bother logging in at all anymore, but this thread deserves what I promised Bluto.  And I see the others have chimed in to bring this back on course.

Here we go, hope you are ready....thanks for the recent comments, they mean a lot. Save them, and express them...


Ever have a book for years, decades and never open it?  And you don't open it until it is time in your life to finally read what it has to say to you.  Last week this happened to me.   A book published back in the early 70's.  The second Seth book.  The cover used to freak me out with the distorted picture of the author Jane on it.  But I always kept it.  Seth was channeled by her, and her husband wrote everything down.

There is one chapter about multi dimension personalities and it nails it completely.  As I said, I just read it last week..  Years ago I would never of made sense of what it wrote, but after reading what Bluto wrote, I was ready to understand it.  please, everyone in this thread go get it.  I will try to summarize, but currently I am not near the book...


Action is what is.  Being conscious of it creates the impressions. Time only means something to the impressions in environments that include time as a construct; one example is our physical universe.

Ego is just an impression to the reactions your action have in the physical.  You have a personality layer underneath that which is tied to your conscience.  That is the personality I have mentioned in the OP.  It is still your identity but without the binding of the memories that your ego layer holds onto. In knows of them, but knows they all can be changed.  In fact the past can be re-experienced and 'changed' just as your future circumstances can change course in this layer. 

Another layer of personality is deeper; and this is where Bluto and others that feel complete meltdown of self have experienced.  Here I believe the 'machine elves' is the best expression of.  Where you see and create entire realities not of this world or any rules at all.  It is pure action onto action, etc

Again, please read the text, not just my foggy summary of it.

But it does show the difference of what my first post mentioned.  That losing your top level is not the real dissolve.  If you lose the top layer, and free yourself to your middle layer, you can feel stronger, more 'attached' about your true self.

But if you do go full Bluto as I coined earlier, you will lose touch with yourself and swim in uncharted waters.. as he did well to explain as best as anyone.  I have yet to go that far and one day I will walk there


If this last layer is what Jhancock meant earlier, then he should of offered it instead of looking to derail the thread.. I see he contributed recently, thanks for that.

be safe all, and remember, we can sail anywhere..