Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: nearo on September 14, 2011, 12:28 am

Title: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: nearo on September 14, 2011, 12:28 am
Went to move some money into Bitcoins today, and Mt. Gox let me deposit USD and then use those USD to buy BTC. Then, when I tried to send those bitcoins to an address outside of Mt. Gox, I get a message saying my account is under review. WTF?!? I've never done anything out of the ordinary and all of a sudden I try to withdraw bitcoins which I just bought today, and it's under review.  >:(

I hope we get an established system on here with Moneypak to BTC. Fuck all those other services, let's keep the fees that we get on SR. The moneypak exchange services that are cropping up here sound like a great alternative. Next time, I'm definitely gonna try that route.


SR FTW!!!

Mt. Gox, Go to Hell!!


Usually, I'm not so vulgar, but this really pissed me off today. Done venting.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: mseller on September 14, 2011, 12:47 am
If you received that message to email then ignore it. Its a phising scam.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: nearo on September 14, 2011, 12:52 am
I only receive this message when I try to withdraw bitcoins out of Mt. Gox. It's on the actual website. I didn't receive this message in an email or anything. It said to emaili right on the web page, when I click confirm to send the BTC out.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: yogsmythe on September 14, 2011, 10:23 am
http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idINN1510930920110615


Not trying to trip you out, but yeh, be careful....
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: EnterTheMatrix on September 14, 2011, 11:18 am
http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/06/15/financial-bitcoin-idINN1510930920110615


Not trying to trip you out, but yeh, be careful....

"We have no opinion for or against Silk Road because we don't feel we are associated in any way. However, if we are required to track payments coming in or out of Silk Road, we will comply, as we all want to see Bitcoin successful in the future."

FUCK you MTGOX. Everyone take note of this quote and try to buy from other sources/exchanges.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: 72289 on September 14, 2011, 01:37 pm
Damn. Makes me happy I've just done the MP to BTC or cash exchanges since I got into BTC. I rarely ever hear anything positive about MT. Gox
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: nearo on September 14, 2011, 02:09 pm
Fuck 'em. I turned my bitcoins back into cash and will take it back out.....decided to go the MP->BTC route. Exodus, any references for a good exchanger?

Or anyone have any recommendations for a good exchanger. I only go personal amounts, and order about once a month. Just want a reliable exchanger who is reliable.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: chronicpain on September 14, 2011, 03:52 pm
Im not tech savy at all. But those that are, can you chime in and tell how mt. gox can tell that an address belongs to SR?  I thought SR used dummy transactions, etc. and washed the bitcoins...  I guess if you use the same address each time, that would raise some flags. thats why everyone should use a new address EVERY transaction and never send directly to or from MT. Gox or any other exchanger..
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: LexusMiles on September 14, 2011, 11:14 pm
Im not tech savy at all. But those that are, can you chime in and tell how mt. gox can tell that an address belongs to SR?  I thought SR used dummy transactions, etc. and washed the bitcoins...  I guess if you use the same address each time, that would raise some flags. thats why everyone should use a new address EVERY transaction and never send directly to or from MT. Gox or any other exchanger..

Technically its possible to discover the main SR wallet (or wallets) if there are any. Since I don't want to do their thinking for them I wont spell out the steps right now, but as proof of concept I tried it for my self. *SO* assuming they can find the main wallet/s (if any exist), I still think we give Mt.Gox a chance. Think about it this way -- Mt.Gox had the open opportunity to say whatever they want to publicly about SR, and they simply said they they were neither for or against. That's pretty cool and neutral stance to be taking I think, and not totally un-noble.

They are openly giving us a hint, that they will comply with LE when requested. You can imagine so, because they will be under pressure to close their doors if they don't co-operate. So with this clue we must equip ourselves with a new strategy. Here's thought: Mt.Gox has a limit to their duty of care for BTC originating from their institution. Once a BTC changes addresses and wallets 'X' number of times, it can no longer be considered as belonging to a Mt.Gox customer, and therefore, no investigation of account will be initiated. We simply need to experiment and find this magic number of 'X'. I'd initially place a guess at '3', with a 50% confidence, and a guess of'5' at 85% confidence.

Also, the future mechanism to avoid this will be a free laundry service. I suggest someone get to work immediately in creating one. It should be on the clearnet, or onoin, not really a concern there, but it should be not associated with SR, and should have a lot of clean BTC coming in too. There is already one available by the name of 'InstaWallet', however, InstaWallet most likely maintains thorough logs and therefore not entirely great as a long term plan for now.

So, in short, lets give Mt.Gox a chance. They maintained a neutral public opinion with SR, and in a way, have given us a friendly heads up to be more careful and more creative with our strategies.

ps. Some more info from the OP would be great. Do we know for sure that your investigation is linked to the article? Exactly how did you use your account before it was put on hold. Was it suspended upon your first withdrawal? Did you withdraw to how many wallets before transferring to SR? How long did you leave funds in SR kitty before spending? These questions will answer if yes or no did yoru account get closed due to an SR related investigation. Lets not all assume to quickly before we get the entire facts.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: CaliGrown78 on September 15, 2011, 03:48 am
Yep fuck mount gox and dwolla. I have been waiting three fuckin days. I am aggravated and tapped out financially. All my loot is sitting in dwolla somewhere. From hear on out moneypack exchanges only.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: halogen on September 15, 2011, 08:14 am
Mt Gox said the right thing in the interview.  Think about it from a legal standpoint.   Even though they are not an American company and fall under a couple of different jurisdictions, they want AND NEED to present as a clean, law abiding global citizen.  They cant answer with "no, we do NOT cooperate with LE because we don't want everybody to get busted...."  See what I mean?  It would be like a night shift cab driver telling a local news reporter that he does not answer to the cops.  If he chooses to drive drug dealers around at night its his business and he ain't gonna cooperate.  See what I mean? It just doesn't work that way.   

They said what they had to say. Good stock answer.

I personally find Gox's customer service really really poor so I dont use them anymore.  I won't bore you with my story but basically they made a mistake and it took well over a week to get them to acknowledge and correct it.

Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: halogen on September 15, 2011, 08:35 am
One other thing......

Here is a direct quote from mtgox "However, if we are required to track payments coming in or out of Silk Road, we will comply."

Ya, sure you will comply.  I am not a super tech savvy guy like I know some of you are.  However, without giving up too much about myself, I happen to know a bit about law. ;)   Let me tell you something.  I don't care how much manpower, time, and money LE (regardless of the agency) put into this they would never, ever get a conviction unless someone was really stupid and totally buckled up a confession and produced hard evidence i.e. personal computer.......    Even with that it would still be a tough gig to prosecute.  I can hear a judge now... "So where are these alleged drugs?  Where is the currency?  Where is this BTC you are claiming the buyer paid with?"    See where I am going?

Ive gotta go to bed but I like pondering this.  I will be back tomorrow.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: Raffael on September 15, 2011, 04:21 pm
@ yogsmythe
MtGox said a while ago they helped the German police to catch criminals using BTC (stolen bank account or money laundering). Nothing new here.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: nearo on September 15, 2011, 06:26 pm

ps. Some more info from the OP would be great. Do we know for sure that your investigation is linked to the article? Exactly how did you use your account before it was put on hold. Was it suspended upon your first withdrawal? Did you withdraw to how many wallets before transferring to SR? How long did you leave funds in SR kitty before spending? These questions will answer if yes or no did yoru account get closed due to an SR related investigation. Lets not all assume to quickly before we get the entire facts.

I've used the exact same process 4 or 5 times before. 1 deposit in, full conversion to btc, 1 withdrawal out. It never got to SR becuase I can't withdraw the btc. I changed the btc back to usd hoping to transfer back to my dwolla but I can't even deposit back into dwolla. My funds are frozen in Mt. Gox

Like I originally said Fuck Mt. Gox
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: chronicpain on September 15, 2011, 06:30 pm
Doesn't mt gox realize that 90 plus percent of all bitcoin users are using them illicitly? Why are they cutting of their noses to spite their face?

Doesn't make any sense to me.. all they will do is put themselves out of business. Maybe they will help in token busts, just to give the appearance that they will cooperate.. But if Mt Gox think that main streem businesses will use bitcoin only for legit puproses, they have another thing coming..
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: LexusMiles on September 15, 2011, 10:00 pm
I've used the exact same process 4 or 5 times before. 1 deposit in, full conversion to btc, 1 withdrawal out. It never got to SR becuase I can't withdraw the btc

It never got to SR any of the 4 or 5 times, or just the last time? Also, the '1 withdrawal out' where was it to each time? Online wallet, or PC wallet? If online wallet, which one?
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: gaah on September 16, 2011, 12:00 am
Same thing happened here... deposited from Dwolla, converted to BTC, tried to withdraw... got the message "Account is pending review, please contact aml@mtgox.com"

Never sent BTC from the MtGox account to/from SR previously, so I have no idea why the account would be under review.  Pretty pissed right now as they will accept your money, but not let you withdraw it in either BTC or dollars, or codes of any kind!

They do not warn you when depositing either... you only get the message once you try to withdraw.  The message appears nowhere else on your account until you attempt to withdraw.

Moral:
**DO NOT USE MTGOX**
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: OKF on September 18, 2011, 10:38 pm
so they might give away the information, that i transfered f.e. 100 Bitcoins to SR.
so what? big deal. LE can't find out what i bought with it, or am i mistaken here?
no one can be convicted by that kind of fact alone, at least not in europe.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: Modoki on September 18, 2011, 11:24 pm
no, but maybe if its much money, you can get a search warrant with it and then you're most definitely fucked.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: OKF on September 19, 2011, 11:38 pm
so if i'm laundering the money before i send it to sr, i am on the "safer" side (of using mtgox)?
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: Modoki on September 19, 2011, 11:47 pm
yes definitely. however, laundering does not only include using several hops until you transfer your money to SR but also to "wash" it. For example, you could send it to someone who then sends you completely different coins instead of your old ones to the adress you want. They are then unlinked, provided the launder service is trustable.
Much love
M
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: OKF on September 20, 2011, 12:04 am
i guess the only trusted and big laundry right now is bitcoinlaundry.com ? sadly there comission rate is ridiculous atm.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: Raffael on September 20, 2011, 01:14 am
i guess the only trusted and big laundry right now is bitcoinlaundry.com ? sadly there comission rate is ridiculous atm.
It seems to lack a functionality for withdrawing the laundered coins into multiple  addresses, which has added security benefits in my opinion.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: themunchies on September 20, 2011, 05:48 pm
I have 2 accounts locked by Mt. Gox- one with $300 and one with $700. I had two because you can only move so much per day, so I made 3 accounts and sent the form in to have my withdrawal limits raised. So I do what they want me to and what do I get? FUCKED.
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: dwjess367 on September 20, 2011, 08:02 pm
I have 2 accounts locked by Mt. Gox- one with $300 and one with $700. I had two because you can only move so much per day, so I made 3 accounts and sent the form in to have my withdrawal limits raised. So I do what they want me to and what do I get? FUCKED.

So sad to hear, especially after all the good you've done for the community! It seems like the bitcoin infrastructure is really going through some growing pains right now. . .
Title: Re: Fuck Mt. Gox
Post by: lucymylove on September 20, 2011, 08:08 pm
Fuck Mt.Gox, use UKash and convert it to bitcoins via http://btc-e.com

Quote
    You can get Ukash from any convenience store with an epay top-up terminal. Find your nearest location here.

        Go to your nearest store with an epay terminal
        Ask for a Ukash voucher ($10, $20, $50, $100, $200 or $500)
        Give the shopkeeper your cash
        The shopkeeper will print your voucher with the 19-digit Ukash PIN
        Now you're ready to exchnage Ukash to Webmoney (PIN is valid for 12 months).


http://www.ukashwm.com/l/cms_instore_nz_en.php
http://www.ukashwm.com/l/cms_uk.html

I'm sure you can insert money in UKash and exchange it anonymously. But to get your money from the system I guess you will need to convert to something you can get, LiberyReserve or other currencies.