Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: player777 on May 28, 2013, 01:18 pm
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Hi everyone,
I'm just wondering, a lot of vendors states that, upon ordering, refund policies will always be 25-50%. If they don't send anything and claim they did, they will always profit 50% of the price. How do we buyers know if they actually sent it?
When in resolution center, can we ask for proof of postage? Like some postal receipt? They could censor addresses, personal information etc.
What about pictures? Snapshots of the letter/parcel before sending them?
I know these steps are really troublesome, but also bear in mind the profit they are making. With high profits, they could hire more workers in their team. Also, at such high profits, should vendors do a little extra for buyers? Or maybe implementing this for orders above a certain amount? $300? $500?
Just my thought.
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If they fail to show proof of sending it, or proof of packaging it. Maybe refunds should be raised to 80%? or 90%?
That way, buyers will still lose a bit of money, but still better taking back only 50%.
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I hear what you are saying....but what you are saying really makes no sense??? I will help you out an address everything you said...
I'm just wondering, a lot of vendors states that, upon ordering, refund policies will always be 25-50%. If they don't send anything and claim they did, they will always profit 50% of the price. How do we buyers know if they actually sent it?
A vendor can NEVER just not send a package and just claim they did and get 50%. First you would have to finalize. And I assume you would not do so until you got the package. If you did not get the package..then you will take it to resolution. Or I should say..you SHOULD take it to resolution. When you do... the vendor has to show proof that he did send it..Such as a DCN. And if he does and it shows delivered...you will in fact get 0% refund. Assuming the DCN is on the up and up. But this is where it gets a little tricky. Just because the vendor states a refund policy...it is not 100% accurate. As like I said..he could win the dispute and you would get nothing if indeed he had a DCN that showed delivered. Now in the dispute process just because the vendor gives them the DCN does not mean it is closed right away. The vendors history and feedback play into it of course. But for the most part...If the vendor has a DCN that proves he shipped it(and it should show delivered) then he will win the case.
But you were asking not about legit orders but scams. Well if he did not send it and you took it to resolution and he offered no proof..you would get 100% even if the vendor states 50% refund. And so this is how the vendor could not just make 50% profit every time by not sending it. Assuming the customer took it to resolution and has not FE'ed. And obviously a vendor that has a history of packages not showing up and not having DCN's...well they will not be vendor for long.
When in resolution center, can we ask for proof of postage? Like some postal receipt? They could censor addresses, personal information etc.
What about pictures? Snapshots of the letter/parcel before sending them?
This is a step that is so not needed and would prove NOTHING. How could you ever tell that the picture is for that actual order? You couldn't...and again look at the answer above...Then you can see how there is no need for any of this. The DCN is enough. And YOU do not have to ask for proof...that is was the resolution is for! Of course a vendor has to have proof he mailed you a package..they are not just going to take his word for it. I was a little surprised you asked this...as what did you think resolution asked for? Nothing? I mean did you believe resolution was just you and the vendor and he offered you his refund policy? It almost sounds like that is what you believed? If you did...now you know the truth :D
I know these steps are really troublesome, but also bear in mind the profit they are making. With high profits, they could hire more workers in their team. Also, at such high profits, should vendors do a little extra for buyers? Or maybe implementing this for orders above a certain amount? $300? $500?
What do you mean by a little extra for there buyers? I could not figure that out. Also you mention high profits a lot. What does that have to do with anything? And there are plenty of vendors that do not have high profits. And there are plenty that do and they do have a team! But realize what you post was saying..you first started out saying that vendors could just take a 50% profit with each order when they say they are offering 50% refund. And that is so silly to even think that could happen..and then right after you talk about resolution...and by doing that I assume you understand that in resolution..the vendor has to show proof he did mail it...and if he did...and somehow you did not receive it...lets assume the mailman lost it..n Meaning the vendor has a DCN and the DCN shows not delivered...then it is up to you both to come to a fair resolution and if you could not...then they will make a fair decision. But if the vendor has any kind of history of this happening a lot...then of course resolution would know about it...and they are not just going to award him 50% every time. NO WAY. So if you think of it in these terms...then you would see it is IMPOSSIBLE for a vendor to just claim he mailed it but he did not. And A vendor is required to show some form of proof he mailed it. And that go's for a $50 or a $5000 purchase. But there would never be a need for pictures or anything like that. And again...the reason I said what are you talking about...is because you talked about resolution, I assumed you would realize that the vendor has to show proof he mailed it. And that you would also realize that a vendor could not go to resolution time and time again and just claim he mailed it and collect 50%. Also when a vendor states his refund % I really do not understand why. As I have never heard of resolution only giving a 10% refund because that is whats the vendors policy is.
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But you were asking not about legit orders but scams. Well if he did not send it and you took it to resolution and he offered no proof..you would get 100% even if the vendor states 50% refund.
What about orders without any tracking, such as most international orders? It'd be extremely easy for buyers to scam if they got 100% refund every time, I can't imagine they get a full refund every time a non-tracked package "doesn't show up". If such a system was in place, why would there be so many non tracked shipping options?
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Every seller Ive ever dealt with ALWAYS uses a DCN.
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What about orders without any tracking, such as most international orders? It'd be extremely easy for buyers to scam if they got 100% refund every time, I can't imagine they get a full refund every time a non-tracked package "doesn't show up". If such a system was in place, why would there be so many non tracked shipping options?
Well again you have to take in to account that it is going to resolution...and when it does...they would notice if you had a pattern or history of refunds... and the do not...and I certainly said no where that the buyer would get a full refund. Let alone the words every time. Nothing is going to be every time. They do take into account the history of the account.
But yes... it would be possible for a vendor or a buyer to lie and pull of a scam...once maybe twice..but again both you and the OP were making suggestions that in the OPs case he said a vendor could ALWAYS get 50% and not send anything...and that is simply not true. And in your case you said a full refund every time..Nothing and no one is going to be able to pull of a scam for an extended period of time. And I feel both of you were asking about that...could a vendor or a buyer ALWAYS pull off a scam...and the answer is NO. Anytime something go's to resolution...they are keeping track of how many disputed you have as a buyer vs how many packages you send...and if you are a buyer they are keeping track of how many times you claim not to get a package.
And on international orders they of course would need something different then a DCN...and take other things into consideration. Also you both are talking about people that are clearly pulling a scam...and the buyer could pull off WAY more scams then a vendor could. And that is not even close. And there are plenty of international vendor that simply will not vendor to certain country's...like Russia...as a lot of buyers from there will claim they never received the item.
But here in the USA....if you ship priority or Express you will ALWAYS have proof of delivery and it would be very hard for someone to claim they didn't get it...yes it happens...but it is rare. I have never had someone claim they didn't get a package. And I have never sent a package without a DCN...and I do not know a vendor that is in the USA that does not use a DCN. They like to claim the count was off or the weight was off. That yes they got the package...but it was not right. Those of course are harder to prove...and that is where resolution is going to look at your feedback and history if you are a vendor...and if you are a buyer they are going to look at how long and how many packages you have ordered and if you have made claims before. If you notice...when there is a problem vendor here that we all call out...he is always less then 1 month old. The new system they put in place a few months ago...has made it very difficult for a vendor to be a scammer. truth is...it is stupid to scam..you make way more money being legit.
Bottom line is NO VENDOR is going to make a killing sending no packages and claiming they did...or sending an empty package and claim the buyer is lying. Yes all this could be done once...but again..this is why you as a buyer should use a trusted vendor that has been with SR for some time with great stats...if you choose right...you can bet you will get exactly what you ordered and you will get it every single time. PERIOD!
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Chill RxKing, I don't have any orders in resolution now and I'm not using this thread to threaten vendors.
Most of my orders are international orders, so there is no DCN. Please think of other buyers outside your country, Americans.
If you think from a vendors perspective, you would say that no vendors would kill their own business. What about selective scamming vendors? Don't tell me that it's the buyer's fault that he did not do his/her research. Even after research, there still will be selective scamming issues.
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I am chill and I did not even think about you having orders in resolution or not. I just answered your questions and tried to show you that what you were saying just could not take place and that there is no need for all the other stuff you talked about. Also I realized right away you are new and you clearly don't know how things work and you were just trying to figure it out.That's a good thing about you! But with all the things you said...the fact is once it go's to resolution and the vendor either has proof (he wins) or does not (the buyer wins) there is no need for the other stuff you said like pictures and things. And this stuff has been asked MANY of times in these forums over the last year BUt you were not around to read it and it is not something you could search for.
If you think from a vendors perspective, you would say that no vendors would kill their own business. What about selective scamming vendors? Don't tell me that it's the buyer's fault that he did not do his/her research. Even after research, there still will be selective scamming issues.
Yes.... no established vendor that has been here more then 6 months..is going to kill there account for a scam. There is just no need to. And if they had a history of not sending packages or just having problems..they will have there account suspended. And vendors are here to vend..not to scam.
As to "selective scamming"....I have been in these forums for about 18 moths. And a vendor for 14 months...And I can tell you that when I first got here...there was a lot of people actually doing business in the forums without a vendor account. And almost all the post were in the Rumor mill section and it was really like the wild wild west. And when I say almost all the post...I am talking about post in general. It was not spread out how it is now...
The mods simply could not control the stuff being said. They tried but to no avail. And the #1 scam was for someone to get a vendor account and "sell" btc for money packs.. And they would create fake feedback and they would do some legitimate business then they would kill the account. And the big one of course was tony76. He was only a vendor for 4 months! And they have said he was a TRUSTED VENDOR! And he was a vendor for 4 fucking months! And he sold dope,coke and meth. And he opened his sales to international and requested that everyone FE and because of what he sold...and there were lets say... some desperate/dope-sick/some good people that didn't think twice and FE'ed and he bolted. And after that...all these people came out against FE. And most of the people talking about it were in fact people that FE'ed! If you talk to any member that was a buyer over a year ago...they will all tell you that every single scam happened because they FE'ed. PERIOD. And on a smaller level people that fell for the MP to btc from a vendor that had been in business for 3 weeks. And once these people got scammed...much like when the people that got scammed by Tony76and a few others that went with FE scam....and the others fell for the MP to BTC...well those people started throwing out "Selective scammer" and they are still around today saying those 2 words.
And the real truth is since they changed the way people can get a vendor account and started cracking down with very good mods that are right on top of someone posting without a vendor account...in fact they got so good at it and are so on top of it...that in the last 6 months...they have all but eliminated people trying to sell in the forums. If someone makes a post and does not have a vendor account...they will lock it. Scout was really on top of the MP to BTC scammers in the forums. He alone stopped 99% of that...and I would say that now...maybe some newbie falls for it 1 time a month if that...and with the cost and how they monitor new vendor accounts now...they have all but eliminated the vendor accounts that open just to scam. Sure they are there...but they catch them. Or one of us in the forums does. Just caught one a few days ago..Infiniateloser or something like that. He was here less then a month...with 30 plus sales I think...and his first or second scam attempt we got him and his account is now frozen. And the person he tried to scam with the FE...he actually got a refund! So I am not sure if he pulled off a successful scam.And of course he sells meth and of course he is a methhead himself. And the "meth guys" with there meth thread do a great job of communicating with each other to stay on top of Meth vendors and call out the bad ones right away.
What I am trying to show and tell you is that you use the term "selective scamming vendors" as if there are a lot of them. And there is simply not. And again as I have said for a long time...and new vendors hate this...but it is a fact...do not use a new vendor! Go with an established one and you will eliminate the chances of getting scammed. PERIOD!
It is so simple it drives the mods on the real site and in the forums nuts. If you the buyer...just dealt with vendors that do not require you to FE..... that would make it 100% YOU WILL NOT GET SCAMMED! So not FE'ing would make it so you can even deal with a new vendor. As you are totally protected. And on top of that..if you chose a vendor with 99+ with over 1 year...you will in no way fall to any kind of scamming. It is really that simple. Your a new buyer. And you are talking about selective scamming vendors ....as if you need to worry about them. And the fact is...you do not at all. And I will even say that there are probably less then 5 even out there. And I do not think there are any that are not requiring you to FE. So if you choose a vendor that does not require you to FE...then you just eliminated selective scammer. If you just stick to a USA vendor...then you just raised the bar again. As you do not have to worry about customs or long wait times. I mean the ball is totally in your court. And yet so many newbies focus there attention on the wrong things. And if you just did what I just told you...then you have NOTHING to worry about.
Of course anything can happen. But the odds of something going wrong when in over a year nothing ever has...are pretty good. And in your case..you would never have to worry about it as if you do not FE...you are golden. And clearly you are concerned about getting scammed. And you can easily avoid it all just by how you choose a vendor. That being said...there are good vendors that require you to FE. They claim they need people to FE to run there business they can not wait for 3 weeks to get payment...Most of them ship international and there are others that have claimed they do not "need" it..but they want it...and if you do not like it...FUCK OFF. And that is the beauty of a FREE MARKET! YOU CAN CHOOSE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO!!! AND IF YOU CHOOSE RIGHT....YOU CAN NOT GET SCAMMED!! PERIOD!!!!
So good luck and I hope you understand everything I said. Just do not FE....and you will be golden. And you would not even have to think about this stuff you brought up in this thread! In fact it would be like you making a thread... Entitled "I am worried bout sharing needles with other dope heads and what is the safest way to do it"
That should be your next thread player777! But you say to me "why Rxking...I do not even use dope and I have never shot up" and I would say " well you made a post about a vendor not sending a package and claiming he did to make 50% and about a selective scamming vendor, and you will never encounter those things either...but you wanted to know about it...so why not sharing needles? I think both things are of equal value to you. Meaning a total waste of your time and energy. :)
Good luck to you! At least you are smart enough to ask and learn about it.
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777 you and i both know who you are and that you did receive the order. so pay for it. i said i would write up the custom order that was sent to you over and above the actual order of 25 tabs you paid for. tracking showed delivered and a very reliable source ,be it hearsay said you got order and are trying to screw me out of $1940. you keep asking different questions, but the same answer comes up you owe me $ for your order. i sent you 200 extra tabs that you were to pay when you got money. i was going to make a custom order for the 200 tabs thru sr. also i was to be given 50% of sales for fronting you extra tabs. i know i should not have given you the benefit of the doubt. my bad but do not ever try to say i did not send order. pay your bills
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Morphineman as there was no reply I can clearly see this bastard cunt is trying to fuck you over and I don't know either of you if it showed delivered WITH A SIGNATURE it means it was 110% delivered all you need to do is copy this page with a screen shot and say no more ok I hate dirty thieving scumbags especially when it involves K's fucking scum cunt player777 fuck you see it's scammers like this that need to be banned done let em start afresh from scratch again
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I agree with RxKing here, we state our terms, when you purchase you either agree to them or shop somewhere else, if a seller was to start selectively scamming and hide behide thier terms, the feedback and feedback score would soon show this happening. Respect us and get some back.
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It's easy to claim the reality of humans on either side of the argument. We, as humans, are all greedy, and it is easy to try and get more out of a transaction.
The escrow and resolution centers, are there for a reason. There are many things that can go wrong with ordering something through the mail, and it has nothing to do with SR. The number of things that have to go right to get a package from A to B is just ri-goddman-diculous. Factor that in with the fact that you are one in MILLIONS of daily packages.. and its just one big clusterfuck. The security of the buyer and the vendor, are both paramount for either side. Unfortunately, people tend to get caught up in the mess and rush to get something done so they can get what they want as quickly as possible. Even a slight misspelling in the name of the person, can cause a package to get lost. This is why so many vendors say in their profile "Make sure your address is correct because I will COPY and PASTE it directly onto my label." If the address is correct, and the package is sanely bound, domestically the chances are extremely high it will get to its destination. That is all there is to it.
Tracking numbers are an easy way for disaster. EASY. We all know the feeling, we got goodies in the mail and all we wanna do is refresh it every 2s to see if its 1cm closer to home. Worse yet, some will do it from tor. This is such a ridiculously easy way to get your package flagged. This, is why vendors don't give it. If there IS a problem, they are happy to check it, and/or give it to you then. Otherwise, they will check it to see if it got to you.
It DOES happen that the postoffice screws up and delivers it to the wrong place, OR, marks it delivered when it wasn't. It's not the same postal union from years ago... they are stressed and shit happens. More often than not though, tracking is spot on. If it says delivered, it was delivered. If it was delivered to the wrong place, you might want to go check the info you sent them. If the info you sent them is correct, many vendors keep the receipt until finalization. They can check to see if it was there fault.
Regardless, SR is a privilege. We have the ability to order top quality products from individuals that are here to provide us that service. Occasionally it doesn't go in our favor. It is easy for one to suggest that a vendor could screw someone over, but the truth is its equally possible on both sides. That is why FE happens with vendors - they get tired of buyers trying to fuck them over too. Paranoia over this, is just going to make your experience worse, and if you can't trust a vendor because you believe they'll just screw you anyways, maybe you shouldn't be ordering from here.
In the real world, you don't have an escrow OR resolution center. You give someone money, you take your product home with you, and then you get screwed because they compressed some powdered milk and ran off with your moola. The system works most of the time, and a better system isn't exactly easy to come up with. Would you prefer to have the real life system instead?