Silk Road forums

Market => Product requests => Topic started by: quinone on November 12, 2011, 03:27 pm

Title: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: quinone on November 12, 2011, 03:27 pm
I see a wealth of 'RC' vendors, which is awesome.

My question is, have any of you considered or actually sold .. packs of say 1 2C-I 1 2C-B 1 valium, etc. etc.?

I ask because I have VERY LITTLE experience with psychedelics, want to get my feet wet, but not by buying 10 2C-B's, or just one pill (with the risk inherent in shipping already, my orders wont be dinky 1 pill $10 risks heh).

I sadly cannot get high off psyilocybin (shrooms), I believe because i'm on an SN/DRI, so my options have always been limited, I know a phenethylamine analog will do the trick though.  I mentioned valium too just as a ... emergency measure (could be xanax, anything to calm me the fuck down if i'm tripping myself out).

I've done my homework, and as a biochemist know full well what i'm getting into (so save your warning speeches please heh), it's always just been a matter of procuring psychedelics (no LSD in my city) and entering the world of entheogens with a wise mind and slow and deliberate caution with the appropriate substances (which thank god SR supplies !).

I would greatly appreciate any help, it's time to get this trip rolling :)
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: darkbananaa on December 02, 2011, 12:32 am
Hey man. I may have something you might be interested in. I have 2ci, 2ce, mxe, and methylone as far as RCs goes. I also sell LSD. Msg me on the site if you want to work something out, I'd be glad to help!

http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/user/60981
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: microRNA on December 02, 2011, 06:41 am
Can you explain your reasoning behind believing a phenethylamine will do the trick?  Are you on a Selective norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor or a serotonin-ND re-up inhibitor (a TRI)? I dont really know if a phenethylamine will have much more of an effect than a tryptamine. Generally SSRIs just reduce the effects of psychedelics in general. You may be able to take more to trip, but would experience increased systemic side effects I assume so go with something fairly non-toxic like darkbanana's LSD. If you can get it on SR, why go with the research chems initially... not that the 2c-x arent interesting. Research it first certainly...
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: quinone on December 02, 2011, 07:55 am
Can you explain your reasoning behind believing a phenethylamine will do the trick?  Are you on a Selective norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor or a serotonin-ND re-up inhibitor (a TRI)? I dont really know if a phenethylamine will have much more of an effect than a tryptamine. Generally SSRIs just reduce the effects of psychedelics in general. You may be able to take more to trip, but would experience increased systemic side effects I assume so go with something fairly non-toxic like darkbanana's LSD. If you can get it on SR, why go with the research chems initially... not that the 2c-x arent interesting. Research it first certainly...

As I said I am on a selective norepinephrine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor (well actually I said I was on an SN/DRI cuz I didn't feel like typing all that out).

I know phenethylamine analogs will have affect on me because i've taken phenethylamine anaolgs.

Some SSRI's completely eliminate the effects of psychoactive drugs.  In my ... history of anti-depressants I was once on a series of SSRI's, took so much MDMA it should kill a man, yet did not roll in the slightest, short of being really hot, having dilated pupils, and clenching my teeth (though I think that was from the anger I was experiencing in not getting high).

I WANT to go with what you call 'research chemical's (as a chemist that term disgusts me lol), and DON'T want at this time to go with LSD.  I need no reason, but the nature of my request should indicate that i'm interested in LESS profound experiences first.  I have pretty serious depression la de da blah and don't want to jump head first into an intense psychedelic experience without first knowing how my depression fits in.

I don't expect you to know that i've got a PhD in Biochemistry, but your telling me to 'research it first certainly' was painful to read.  I've researched and understand PEA's, tryptamines, benzos, and the opiates as best as current literature allows.  It's just been that until I discovered SR I had no source of LSD, 2C-X, etc.  I'm also trying to be ultra cautious given my medical crap.  Search for other posts i've commented in if you don't believe me, you'll see that they all have the same pseudo-arrogant scientific banter that your own posts have  ;)

The essence of this product request was to kind of get 1 of each (including LSD) so that I could ... taper my mind up, and to see if it's even worthwhile for me to enter into a psychedelic experience at all.

It seems, however, my request wasn't popular, as it got buried in the forums until today lol.  Messaged darkbanana, but he only has LSD listed, so unless he gets/has the notorious 'research chemicals' :D (i'm just messing with you bud lol) i'm gonna just have to keep looking.  It's not that the products not there, just that I don't want 10 different orders.
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: microRNA on December 02, 2011, 10:20 am
Thanks for the reply, clarifying your post, I was just very curious. And sorry for telling you to research things, just a proponent of responsible use and knowing about the chemical one is consuming... obviously there are enough irresponsible users out there that I just include something like that regardless of whether you have an extensive background in psychopharmacology or not.

That is extremely interesting given the medication you are on that you experience relatively minimal effects from 4-ho-dmt when it should be targeting the serotonergic system with high affinity yet a phenethylamine has strong effects. I would expect it to be the other way around but maybe those systems play an integral yet non-specific role and you need that extra disruption of the dopaminergic and adrenergic systems to produce strong effects.

Have you heard of the NBOMe series that were actually used for their high specificity during receptor mapping, so we can fairly call them "research" chemicals, while the others can be "lack of research" chemicals. The nbomes are analogues of the 2c-x series, and have been getting great reviews, some even claiming they are by far their favorite psychedelic. The reason I mention it is that many people find them to be very gentle, especially at lower doses, so they may be a good place for you to begin the taper, and would also be good for the more intense, introspective experience at higher doses as well.  I am planning to try them fairly soon as another class to have "researched" lol If you are interested, you may message ENBOOM on the main site, who also has 2c-e and has been very helpful during communication. Etizolam also has a very long list of RCs and some benzos on SR so you may directly inquire about a complete package from him as well... Both should be happy to help you I would think.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: quinone on December 02, 2011, 12:30 pm
No need to apologize, I can be an arrogant dick when i'm in a bad mood (and I was in a bad mood).  I totally understand, respect, and ENDORSE your advising people to do their research.

Yeah it's definitely weird that I experienced minimal effects from Psilocin, all my friends were high as shit and meanwhile I've eaten fuckin like 4-5 grams (not all at once) and i'm sober.  It was MDMA I actually referred to in my post, but Psilocin was actually the first experience (well lack of experience) with SSRIs, and then the S(N/D)RIs (it's Bupropion lol enough of this silly S<>RI crap haha), good job reading my mind/knowing things about me that I didn't tell you haha :D  But yeah, i've had both SSRI's and SNDRI's suppress the effects of both Psilocin and MDMA

I thought I was crazy actually until I moved back to my hometown and hooked back up with some old friends.  One of them is on Venlafaxine (an SNRI) and say's he's never tripped on shroom either, and that all his/our friends would give him such a hard time whenever they ate shrooms (Psilocybin, Psilocin (after dephosphorylation of Psilocybin of course), 4-HO-DMT ... take your pick at what name to use heh).  Now they just give us both a hard time.

I agree it is weird, now that i've seen the subjective results of using Psilocin with any of the selective reuptake inhibitors (2 of my own), whatever way the effect's are suppressed, they are clearly independent of the serotogenic/dopaminergic/noradrenergic membrane reuptake cascades.  It seems logical that an SSRI would suppress it's effect's as it targets 5-HT receptors almost exclusively, but why SNRI's and SN/DRI's suppress it's effects are ... well up to our speculation.  Psilocin almost doesn't react with dopaminergic or noradrenergic neurons at all, so all I can chalk it up to is a disruption in synaptic plasticity/receptor density.  Your speculation re: non-specific disruption of dopaminergic/adrenergic systems makes sense (well to me at least) cuz a change in receptor density would elicit such a disruption.  Really I don't know though, been an annoying mystery my whole drug using life :D

I had not heard of the NBOMe series, i'm more familiar with the 'bromo-dragonfly' 5HT(2A) agonist data, but having now looked a bit into these NBOMe analogs I see they are 2C derivatives with a methoxylated phenyl moiety just chilling with the amine :D  Very interesting phenethylamine analogs for sure, i'm almost inclined to go get the PDB structure for human 5-HT(2A) just to see where that substituted phenyl moeity fits (but i'm gonna play Skyrim instead lol).  It looks like a very fragile moeity, one would think that before crossing the BBB that secondary amine would be cleaved.  Perhaps it is and that's involved in it's activation ... I don't know ... i'm talkin out my (organic chemistry) ass since i've never even read any literature on NBOMe analogs (well that one paper) lol.  It's always good to have new 5-HT(2A) full agonists to add to our toolbox of 5-HT(2A) structure/dynamics/kinetics probes ... well that and new psychadelics heh.  It's hard to argue against a paper on NBOMe analogs titled "High Specific Activity Tritium-Labeled N-(2-methoxybenzyl)-2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodophenethylamine (INBMeO): A High Affinity 5-HT2A Receptor-Selective Agonist Radioligand" lol.  Nah, I read it, solid work and a very good addition to 5-HT(2A) probes.

It's a shame we're in the dark ages with regards to protein structure, especially in vivo.  We just blindly probe around in the dark until we find something that either fits, or induces a conformational change and just run with it lol.  It'll be cool in 100 years (when i'm dead) when we can actually study protein structure and dynamics in vivo.  X-ray crystallography is so limiting (frozen picture of a crystal whose conformation is probably not what it was in vivo since it's locked in a crystal lattice), and NMR is so DIFFICULT (not to mention it still can't be done in vivo, but it CAN elicit protein dynamics and kinetics in vitro that would be the same as in vivo since the proteins are allowed to remain conformationally nascent and active).  K wow i'm rambling like a mother fucker (it's just I never get to talk science with anyone other then my work colleagues, which is boring then lol).

I'll take a look at ENBOOM/Etizolam, though Darkbanana has responded and I think we'll end up working something out.  Would have probably been easier from the start if I had just msged one of the 'RC' vendors to ask for a custom order, I guess I expect too much from forums :P (I would think that the vendors would be searching for posts like mine to make more sales and get new customers, but meh, what do I know)
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: microRNA on December 03, 2011, 01:16 pm
I agree it is nice to be able to talk to another scientific mind since I usually must remain silent regarding such interests...

Some people actually just seem to have crazy tolerances to shrooms. For example, while hiking off the blue ridge parkway, 2 friends and I each eat about a gram and a half of potent shrooms for a very enjoyable slightly intense trip, while another friend eats 5 grams. When it was time to drive to a new trail to a waterfall and we were still tripping, who did we decide was the most able to drive? Not one of the 3 low dosers, but my friend who had eaten the 5 grams. The medication could obviously have something to do with it too though. Possibly a receptor polymorphism that results in a higher susceptibility to depression also causes a decreased activity of 4-substituted tryptamines  :P Very perplexing though

I could not find any decent information about the active site or a protein structure for a 5-ht receptor, maybe I am just not searching in the right places. I did find a very interesting article about the hydrophobicity of 5ht2a ligands and their related activity. It would seem he N-benzyl moity plays an important role in the specificity and agonist properties of the NBOMe compounds. Given the hydrophobic structure of serotonin, I would expect an active site rich in hydrophobic residues, likely the reason the N-benzyl and hydrofuran rings of bromo-dragonfly have such high affinity for the receptor. I also would expect the hydrophobic nature causes increased solubility across the BBB and thus may contribute to the impressively miniscule dosages needed to elicit a psychedelic response. If you want to look into it, the paper is titled "The Role of Lipophilicity in Determining Binding Affinity and Functional Activity for 5-HT2A Receptor Ligands"

At least science is making amazing strides and progressing at an ever increasing rate. The patch clamp at least allowed us to decipher some characteristics of the mechanisms in vivo of ion transporter function (but not really structure as you mentioned). It really is unbelievable how much we have been able to discover about the ridiculously intricate and beautiful mechanisms of biology just through a little brute force biochem. Crazy how much a freaking western blot can demonstrate.
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: quinone on December 04, 2011, 08:11 am
Here's some structural/other information and related citations:
http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/P28223

The citations appear to have a pretty extensive wealth of information, I just don't feel like delving into them right now.  Let me know what you find though (aka you can do the work for me :D)

I also stumbled upon this publication, which seems particularly relevant since it show's agonist bound 5-HT2A structures:

G Protein- and Agonist-Bound Serotonin 5-HT2A Receptor Model Activated by Steered Molecular Dynamics Simulations
Vignir Isberg, Thomas Balle, Tommy Sander, Flemming Steen Jørgensen, and David E. Gloriam*
Department of Medicinal Chemistry, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Copenhagen, Universitetsparken 2, 2100 Copenhagen, Denmark
J. Chem. Inf. Model., 2011, 51 (2), pp 315–325

I was about to mention the hydrophobicity of planar aromatic analogs (like bromo-dragonfly) with respect to the hydrophobic region of the membrane itself, but you already said it, and mentioned a paper about it lol.  I guess it does pay off to read a person's entire post before replying ;)

To add briefly, the membrane docking component of 5-HT crosses the membrane seven times, and doesn't contain any beta-barrels, so it occupies a ... very robust space within the lipid bilayer (aka it's structure is fat), obviously the calcium gated component of the 5-HT receptor (the internal residues if you will) contain beta barrels :D.  So it stands to reason that hydrophobicity of the agonist is strongly linked to it's binding rate.  Lipid rafts would also be exchanged at a faster rate the more hydrophobic the 5-HT-agonist complex is.

A large force in bromo-dragonfly and it's related analogue's extremely long length of action is the difficulty in breaking the many resonance stabilized aromatic moeities, but hydrophobicity, and the dramatic conformational changes the planar configurations of these agonists induce clearly relate to length of effect and potency.

Western blots are the man !
But so are all the other blots (and electrophoresis, etc. blah), can't get that precious protein to study unless I maniacally play god by inserting the protein's sequence into an expression plasmid.  Fuck bacteria anyways, i'll do what I wan't to those bitchy little cells heh
Title: Re: Any vendors willing to sell RC 'packages'?
Post by: microRNA on December 04, 2011, 02:09 pm
Thanks for the response. I appreciate you providing the link but I had actually come across uniprot, I was just being lazy and not reading papers. I didnt know where the binding site was located so I was having difficulty, but I see now you knew it was within the trans-membrane domain. Do you know if the main binding sites of all GPCRs are in the T-M region? I was incorrectly thinking it may be in the cytoplasmic domain. I will have to look into that paper shortly if I can gain access on campus.

I mentioned the hydrophobic nature of the active site residues, however I had also supposed but failed to mention the pi orbital interactions leading to aromatic stacking interactions could play a major role, since I recently learned about their importance in nucleic acid and protein structure. I didnt know the duration of their effects was partly due to these interactions as well, but it makes sense. As I had expected, I found a paper that demonstrated for some ligands not only the hydrophobic nature of the residues, but also for a large part the aromaticity, is integral for high affinity and actually partially responsible for activation. Evidently two phenylalanine residues in alpha helix 6 are critical to the functionality of the binding site and transducing the signal. I found the paper to be extremely interesting, especially since I will be conducting my own research shortly with the highly selective agonist. The paper was entitled "Molecular interaction of serotonin 5ht2a receptor residues Phe339 and Phe340 with superpotent n-benzyl phenethylamine agonists" by, you could probably guess it, Nichols.

Bacteria, lol making me feel so powerful sometimes. and then weak at others. For my undergrad I was in a microbio lab and now I am at the grad school level, in neuroscience and pharmacology related studies. Still have SO MUCH to learn it is ridiculous though! Not an expert by any means, as I am sure you can at least claim to be in your specific area of interest. My user name would point to another fascination of mine as well, interfering RNA!!!  ;)