Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: sofish89 on May 18, 2013, 07:40 am
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I have heard ppl throw around the terms S and R when talking about ketamine. And also I;ve heard thst each one could be positively charged (+) or negative (-)
So does that mean there are 5 types of K (S+, S-, R+, R- and Racemic) ?? Sorry if this sounds like a newb question but I've been sniffing k for years withput knowing if it was the
S+ isomer ot the R isomer or just plain racemcic but would love to learn the difference.
And si intrsia's ketmine
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I was trying some out for the first time recently and came upon this problem. As far as I figured out, the S isomer is the better one in terms of effects so that's why everyone sells S isomer at an inflated price compared to racemic (which is both R+S isomer). I think the S isomer is positively charged and the R is negatively charged so S- R+.
Another thing I was wondering was about cooked ketamine. Does this just mean that it's been cooked off from liquid or does this mean that the crystals have been cooked? Should I cook my K if it is uncooked? I didn't ever manage to find this out so decided to just go ahead and got a pretty good trip out of it without worrying about it.
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Another thing I was wondering was about cooked ketamine. Does this just mean that it's been cooked off from liquid or does this mean that the crystals have been cooked? Should I cook my K if it is uncooked? I didn't ever manage to find this out so decided to just go ahead and got a pretty good trip out of it without worrying about it.
yes you should cook your crystals
cooked K doesnt damage the inside of the nose like crystals do, and it goes a lot faster into your bloodstream. the more surface the more reaction :)
cheers minchia
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So is it possible to have pure R- ketamine?
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Isomers aren't charged! x) (+) is the same as dextro, dexdrine is (+)-Amphetamine, or dextroamphetamine. It has nothing to do with electrical charge. For example, glucose is only one isomer, and it isn't charged.
There is only (R) and (S)-ketamine, two isomers. Racemic means there are equal proportions or (R) and (S)-Ketamine. (Or (+) and (-) if you want to call it that).
It is possible to have (R)-ketamine just like you can have (S)-ketamine but it isn't manufactured anywhere and you can't really extract it from racemic ketamine (it's really hard to do that kind of stuff).
So for clarification : (S)-ketamine = (+)-ketamine (or dextroketamine) and (R)-ketamine = (-)-ketamine (or levoketamine)
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Isomers aren't charged! x) (+) is the same as dextro, dexdrine is (+)-Amphetamine, or dextroamphetamine. It has nothing to do with electrical charge. For example, glucose is only one isomer, and it isn't charged.
There is only (R) and (S)-ketamine, two isomers. Racemic means there are equal proportions or (R) and (S)-Ketamine. (Or (+) and (-) if you want to call it that).
It is possible to have (R)-ketamine just like you can have (S)-ketamine but it isn't manufactured anywhere and you can't really extract it from racemic ketamine (it's really hard to do that kind of stuff).
So for clarification : (S)-ketamine = (+)-ketamine (or dextroketamine) and (R)-ketamine = (-)-ketamine (or levoketamine)
What da fuck! lol I have a fear that this is exactly how our younger generation who grow up with SR and constantly on the net will talk to us in 10-20 years time and I won't have a fuckin' clue what it is they're talking about
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What da fuck! lol I have a fear that this is exactly how our younger generation who grow up with SR and constantly on the net will talk to us in 10-20 years time and I won't have a fuckin' clue what it is they're talking about
Lol, well all I meant to say was that there was only (R) and (S), and that it means the same as (+) and (-) for ketamine, there's no such thing as R+ and R-. Also, a popular misconception is that (+)-ketamine is charged, because there's a (+) in its name. People think (+)-K will act like things you rubbed a balloon on. That's false.
I hope that sounds more like english to you now!
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So you are saying there are 3 kinds of ketamine,
the R the S and the racemic ?
If R is never manufactered then why do they make racemic (which has R in it) ?
And is it much harder or expensive to produce R ketamine as opposed ro racemic or S+ ?
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So you are saying there are 3 kinds of ketamine,
the R the S and the racemic ?
If R is never manufactered then why do they make racemic (which has R in it) ?
And is it much harder or expensive to produce R ketamine as opposed ro racemic or S+ ?
Well yeah I guess there are 3 kinds if you think of it that way. The thing is, to make racemic ketamine, they don't produce the (R), then the (S) and mix them in equal proportions. A synthetized molecule is usually racemic unless special steps are taken to only make one specific isomer.
I don't know if it's much harder to make the (R) than the (S), but the (S) isomer is more active and has a shorter duration which makes it ideal for anesthesia (that way, the person coming out of anesthesia won't have as much lingering side effects). That's why the pure (S) isomer is manufactured.
The (R) isomer isn't very interesting as a medicine, being less active than than the (S) isomer so that's why it's not found. The only way you'd get it is from a university or a hospital where they do clinical trials to compare the effectiveness of (R) vs (S)-ketamine. I don't know if (R)-ketamine is even interesting as a psychedelic but I'd be interested to try it to see how it's like.
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So other than the shorter duration, how do the effects differ between the different variants?
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so is it safe to say that any ketamine that was extracted from medical ketamine vials is probably (S) isomer or do they make medical grade racemic ketamine (in the USA)?
and I'm talking about the ketamine vials that veterinarian doctors have in their offices..
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yes you should cook your crystals
cooked K doesnt damage the inside of the nose like crystals do, and it goes a lot faster into your bloodstream. the more surface the more reaction :)
cheers minchia
I generally IM it because I have experience of IMing drugs and I don't like snorting stuff. Should I still cook it?
Also good info on the isomers. I did think it was weird that two chemical formulas with different arrangements could have different charges.
I guess by making K it is difficult to have a reaction make only one isomer of it so it's probably back street lab stuff that's racemic and medical stuff that's S only.
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yes you should cook your crystals
cooked K doesnt damage the inside of the nose like crystals do, and it goes a lot faster into your bloodstream. the more surface the more reaction :)
cheers minchia
I generally IM it because I have experience of IMing drugs and I don't like snorting stuff. Should I still cook it?
Also good info on the isomers. I did think it was weird that two chemical formulas with different arrangements could have different charges.
I guess by making K it is difficult to have a reaction make only one isomer of it so it's probably back street lab stuff that's racemic and medical stuff that's S only.
How do you make it from powder and keep it sterile when you do it IM?
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Great info here guys! +1's !!!
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There's currently more racemic medical ketamine than (S)-ketamine. It's kinda like how dextroamphetamine started becoming more popular than racemic amphetamine or how escitalopram ((S)-citalopram) is now more popular than racemic citalopram, or armodafinil and modafinil.
Both types of ketamine usually come from injection vials, there's more than enough medical ketamine in India and Mexico to fill the market, I don't think a lot of ketamine is made in underground labs.
As far as I know there's only racemic ketamine manufactured in the USA at the moment, but maybe they started using (S)-ketamine now.
You don't need to cook it to inject it! It's dissolved anyways. To make it sterile, you can use a 0.22 micometer wheelfilter, it will filter the bacteria out of your solution, so even if you use dirty water it'll be sterile (there can still be viruses but that's not a big concern). Unless you use a dirty needle and syringe, it'll be sterile if you use a 0.22 micrometer wheelfilter (you can buy them on SR or on the clearnet). I don't think you really need to use a wheelfilter if your ketamine is good and you're using sterile saline and a sterile needle, good ketamine should be clean enough. If you see insoluble particles though then you should filter it out.
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You know your stuff tree! +1. Thanks very much for clearing up my speculative comments and reassuring me that I don't need to be cooking it.
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Thanks! IMing give you more bang for your buck anyways, but I don't really like getting weird looks when buying needles so I resort to snorting...
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if anyone is interested..
R and S just refer to the direction in which a substituent group come off the body of the molecule at chiral centers. Racemic means that there is an equal proportion of R and S molecules.
They come off at different directions (2 possible, R or S only) depending on the chemical processes (elimination, substitution, addition, etc...). Sometimes certain enantiomers cause dangerous reactions (R-Thalidomide eases morning sickness symptoms whereas S-Thalidomide causes genetic defects and grotesque birth abmnormalities)
Not really important info, just if anyone is curious. I only skimmed the thread so i hope i'm not repeating anything!
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There's currently more racemic medical ketamine than (S)-ketamine. It's kinda like how dextroamphetamine started becoming more popular than racemic amphetamine or how escitalopram ((S)-citalopram) is now more popular than racemic citalopram, or armodafinil and modafinil.
Both types of ketamine usually come from injection vials, there's more than enough medical ketamine in India and Mexico to fill the market, I don't think a lot of ketamine is made in underground labs.
As far as I know there's only racemic ketamine manufactured in the USA at the moment, but maybe they started using (S)-ketamine now.
You don't need to cook it to inject it! It's dissolved anyways. To make it sterile, you can use a 0.22 micometer wheelfilter, it will filter the bacteria out of your solution, so even if you use dirty water it'll be sterile (there can still be viruses but that's not a big concern). Unless you use a dirty needle and syringe, it'll be sterile if you use a 0.22 micrometer wheelfilter (you can buy them on SR or on the clearnet). I don't think you really need to use a wheelfilter if your ketamine is good and you're using sterile saline and a sterile needle, good ketamine should be clean enough. If you see insoluble particles though then you should filter it out.
That sounds like an abcess waiting to happen. It should always be filtered. Are the wheel filters sterile in both directions?
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Well considering how a lot of people use cigarette filters and non-sterile cotton balls, if your ketamine is pure, you don't really need to use a cigarette filter or cotton, those would probably do more harm than good.
Wheel filters are sterile both ways up to the point when you filter your solution. You can draw you solution in a syringe and then put the wheel filter on and then squirt it in your disinfected spoon. Wheelfilters aren't reusable though, after some hours they become filled with bacteria.