Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: paxpax on September 25, 2012, 02:33 am
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**Update Easy Quick Clean Method***
One of the most common complaints in any cleaning process is the loss of product. Not loss of just the cut but the inability to reclaim everything that is stuck to the reaction vessel. This is understandable and for anyone who is only washing a gram or so of product could make the efforts not worthwhile. In light of that I offer a method for those who want to perform a quick cleanse without loosing any of their product to the cleaning vessel or transfer process. To start you will still need to have an amount of Anhydrous Acetone, see below for instructions to make your own from off the shelf acetone. Once you have that you will need to obtain some empty tea bags, these can be found at loose leaf tea shops, some health food stores and grocers. Find something high quality, proceed as follows:
Quick Clean Tec:
1. Using a suitable vessel, fill with ice cold anhydrous acetone.
2. Fill empty tea bag with product
3. Steep product in acetone. Remove and repeat.
4. Continue this process until you are satisfied.
Upon completion lay tea bag on plate, gently rip open and allow to dry. Reclaim from the te bag is very simple.
***End Update Quick Clean****
Hello SR!! Thought I would share a method to transform your dirty MDMA to crystal clean fun. This TEK is common knowledge for the initiated, but maybe not so much for the new MDMA connoisseur. SR has an impressive range of molly to be had, covering most shades of the rainbow. Simple fact, pure 100% MDMA.HCL is pure white with no odor (Don't get me started on this 84% bs....). If your product is anything but, then it contains impurities of unknown compounds. Typically, impurities will be un-reacted precursors. This could range from MDP-2-P to mercuric-chlroide. Pro Tip, mercuric chloride is a mercury salt and is bad news. Impurities could also be cutting agents. The thoughtful drug dealer would choose safe or inert cutting agents, sadly not all the dealers in a chain are of the thoughtful variety. Luckily the home student can eliminate a large portion of impurities by washing or re-crystallizing their MDMA. See below for how.
**EDIT** I modified a few steps to make the process a little faster, namely adding a method to flash vaporize acetone and cutting out the lengthy and unnecessary drying process **EDIT**
Acetone (Anhydrous) Wash
For mostly white or otherwise trusted MDMA a simple wash will suffice. An acetone wash will clear the crystals of any surface, non-polar organic impurities.
Materials:
Acetone (Hardware store variety is fine) Small can 500ml or so.
Epsom Salts
Filter Paper (Coffee Works) Lab filter paper is better
Mason Jars, baby food jars, dipping dishes or simliar.
Making Anhydrous Acetone:
MDMA is fully soluble in water. Hardware store Acetone will contain some water. Acetone is extremely hygroscopic. We need to remove the water or we risk loosing some of the MDMA.
Step 1
To remove the water we are going to first want to spread a layer of epson salts 50 or so grams (non scented) on a foil lined baking sheet. Bake the epsom salt @ 400F for about an hour.
Step 2
Allow the epsom salts (now magnesium sulfate) to cool slightly before adding to an empty mason jar. Seal the mason jar and allow to cool to room temperature.
Step 3
Upon cooling add a 200ml or so of acetone to the mason jar and replace cap tightly. Shake jar vigorously. Repeat shake every 15 minutes for one hour. Let the jar sit undisturbed in the freezer so all the MgSO4 settles to the bottom.
Washing MDMA
Find a suitable glass container for the amount of MDMA you wish to wash. Don't use a 10 gallon container if you only have a gram of product.
Step 1
Crush (GASP!!!) your MDMA into a coarse powder. No need to go nuts but you don't want any large rocks. Add to your container / glass.
Step 2
Add cold (from your freezer) Acetone to the container. Use a syringe, pipette or spoons and be careful not to disturb the MgSO4 at the bottom of the jar. Use just enough to cover the MDMA. Give the MDMA and acetone a few swishes.
Step 3
Pour the contents through some filter paper and allow gravity to do it's job. If any MDMA is left in your glass / container then repeat steps 2 and 3. Depending on how dirty the extracted acetone was, you may want to repeat the wash.
Step 4
Pour some additional cold acetone, a hundred ml or so, over the MDMA that now sits in the filter paper.
Step 5
If you plan on stopping here than lay the filter paper out flat on a dish and allow to dry. When complete, remove your now clean and white MDMA from your paper. Don't forget to tap the filter.
If you plan on crystallizing than no need to wait for it to dry, just transfer the MDMA cake to the vessel you plan on using to crystallize your product.
Crystallizing MDMA
For MDMA that is severely off color or known to contain impurities, you may want to recrystallize your product. This method destroys the crystal lattices and removes any impurities trapped inside. You will then reassembly your lattice and enjoy, MDMA is only partially soluble in IPA. We can exploit this property to clean and purify the MDMA.
It is worth mentioning that this step can be used in lieu of the acetone wash, it is not as thorough, but if you only had time for one or the other, this is the way to go.
Materials:
IPA (Anhydrous <-- MUST BE ANHYDROUS) - Found at most auto part stores
Epsom Salts
Mason Jars
Step 1
Drying your IPA
Auto part store IPA may contain some water, it is worth drying with epsom salt. Follow the procedure outlined above for Acetone, just replace with IPA.
Step 2
Add your product to a suitable container. Save a small amount (a few mg or small crystal) in case your solution needs a jump start.
Step 3
Heat your IPA to just boiling
Step 4
If your MDMA contains cutting agents, they will NOT dissolve here, do not let a cutting agent fool you into adding too much IPA. If you are adding IPA and you notice that the material in your container is no longer dissolving than assume it is cut and filter it from your IPA solution. Toss the cut and keep the IPA solution
Add Hot IPA to your container a little at a time until your MDMA is completely dissolved. If your MDMA cake was still wet with acetone, the hot IPA will flash vaporize it. It is CRITICAL that you only add enough hot IPA to just dissolve your MDMA. Add a little at a time and stir, continue until all MDMA is dissolved. If you add too much you WILL lose some of it.
Step 5
Cover your container and allow the solution to cool to room temperature. Then transfer it to the refrigerator. Give it an hour or two then transfer to your freezer overnight. As the solution cools, crystals will begin to form. The slower it cools the larger the crystals. (A moot point with MDMA, the crystals are very fragile and should crumble during filtration. Chemists use heat and pressure to create the "Crystals" you see on many of the SR product photos.)
Step 6
Use a stir rod or spoon to free up the crystals from your container and pour the contents through filter paper. If some of the crystals stick to the container after the first flush just use a little ice cold IPA or acetone to free them up. Allow to dry and enjoy.
If for some reason you awake to a ice cold IPA without any crystals you used too much IPA or your IPA was not dry. You can seed the process by dropping in a few MDMA crystals saved from step 2. This will catalyze the process and MDMA will fall from solution.
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Worth a sticky?
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it is recommended to wash the mdma to remove purities especially if your batch smells of licorice. this is indicative of a precursor known as safrole which is highly carcinogenic
nice write up, but i have posted the same recommendation as have some others... only difference with mine was i hate the hassle of using a filter and losing any product so i use another method - just pull the acetone off with a glass pipet from my tall shot glass with the chem settled at the bottom. then dump out and allow remaining acetone to evaporate, can only be used with a volatile solvent though
i would actually recommend people do more than just one wash, add acetone, remove, then add fresh acetone, and repeat at least a few times, or until the acetone remains clear.
and only extremely important threads, applicable to more people are generally stickied... cant sticky every topic, and recently they were just cleaned up and many were removed. this method can also be used for more than just mdma, such as cocaine, or extracted dmt and mescaline... so if you edited it for not just mdma, then maybe it would be worthy
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I still haven't washed any of my mdma or coke, ever. Thanks for posting this it has motivated me to finally give it a shot.
I should receive Symbiosis' mdma here in the next few days and am curious what the wash will yield.
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Oh, what a coincidence! I just posted in the MDMA quality thread outlining one of my most recent washes. I'll cross post it here to give you guys an idea on what you should expect. Great thread!
So I'm sure most of you have come across the infamous brown MDMA that Rainbow Vomit and Gelman offered a while back. You can find pictures of it here:
http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion/view.php?image=9d0ce66ccb996a225e7f13ae6974ff4a.jpg
http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion/view.php?image=50d944a1f44b855a5144c17e8fc33973.jpg
I fortunately had the opportunity to grab a bit of it before they both disappeared, and decided to run a small experiment to see just how pure this MDMA was and threw 3g through a rigorous acetone wash. This took me a few weeks to complete (a wash here and there, as my schedule allowed and drying permitted), but I finally settled on finishing at the 6th wash. What I revealed was just as expected -- this MDMA is very pure. Of the 3g (3,004mg to be exact) I ran through the wash, I yielded a very pleasant 2,371mg of washed MDMA and the crystals that have come through are absolutely beautiful. Here is a picture:
http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion/view.php?image=14d495a436f63f7c0ecb7a98c3c3cd3d.jpg
I have ran a few acetone washes before but this was the most surprising in the fact that the starting product was very tan, brown almost, and it yielded the most final product. I have ran very white/off-white crystal before only to be disappointed when 2g disappeared before my eyes into 700mg. This also reinforces the fact that color does not indicate purity! So while I'm a little late to the party, if you happen to come across this fine product in your ventures, be sure to pick it up. This MDMA is absolutely amazing.
This has been a public service announcement detailing how you should be sure to wash your MDMA! You'll be happy you did, kiddos. :)
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Great thread thanks for super clear step by step:-)
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Any chance of some citations/info on real cases of MDMA containing mercury? I've found out that it can do via one method of production if certain steps aren't followed but nothing on this actually being present in any end product.
What modest mouse posts about carcinogenic properties is wrong, at least a reason to be afraid. It isn't carcinogenic to humans and were it so it's carcinogenicity is minute and the same as things we are exposed to day to day.
I've washed before, it's interesting to see MDMA in its pure form and such a simple process.
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Any chance of some citations/info on real cases of MDMA containing mercury? I've found out that it can do via one method of production if certain steps aren't followed but nothing on this actually being present in any end product.
What modest mouse posts about carcinogenic properties is wrong, at least a reason to be afraid. It isn't carcinogenic to humans and were it so it's carcinogenicity is minute and the same as things we are exposed to day to day.
I've washed before, it's interesting to see MDMA in its pure form and such a simple process.
Hgcl2 is used to create an aluminum amalgam which is then used as a reducing agent in transforming MDP2P to mdma freebase. Generally the freebase is extracted via solvent washing and seperation. If the seperation is not performed properly mercury will end up reacting with hcl gas during salting and form mercuric chloride. There are other reducing agents but hgcl2 is by far the most common and available to clandestine labs.
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What modest mouse posts about carcinogenic properties is wrong, at least a reason to be afraid. It isn't carcinogenic to humans and were it so it's carcinogenicity is minute and the same as things we are exposed to day to day.
I've washed before, it's interesting to see MDMA in its pure form and such a simple process.
if safrole was not carcinogenic then why was it banned by the FDA (and CA) for causing cancer? not only are it and the metabolites carcinogenic, but also mutagenic and hepatotoxic.
its a precursor used in the production of mdma. when the synthesis is done, its never to 100 percent completion. if the chemist cuts corners (and to prevent reducing the weight = more money) they wont wash it themselves... meaning the leftover safrole remains with the mdma.
i am not trying to scare people, i am making sure people are well informed. i will admit the toxicity is low compared to many other carcinogens and the tests were done in animals, the actual risk in humans in not clear... and even then its not like everyone who ingests safrole will get cancer, but a small percentage will be at risk. why would you risk your health when the washing is quote from you "such a simple process"
if you want to claim i wrong then you could at least provided some sources backing your statement. especially when you are requesting others do the same...
from: http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v16je22.htm
Safrole and isosafrole administered to rats produces liver
hypertrophy and induces microsomal enzymes. Safrole is inactive in
mutagenicity studies with various strains of S. typhimurium with and
without activation. Safrole was positive in the in vitro mutagenic
assay with E. coli and S. cerevisiae and in the in vivo
intraperitoneal host-mediated assay.
Administration of safrole to mice, either orally or
subcutaneously, led to a marked increase in the incidence of liver
tumours. Exposure of mice to safrole in utero produced renal
epithelial tumours. In the case of rats, chronic administration of
safrole resulted in progressive dose-dependent liver damage ranging
from hepatic cell enlargement, nodule formation, cirrhosis adenomatoid
hyperplasia leading to benign and malignant tumours. No liver tumours
were reported in dogs fed safrole for six years, but some liver
changes including bile-duct proliferation were observed.
all of these sources, of which i just selected from the first couple pages of my search confirm my claim as well:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0015626481905186
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejoc.201101384/abstract
http://www.med.nyu.edu/content?ChunkIID=111804
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=21344888
http://www.naturalpedia.com/Safrole.html - this one lists quotes from multiple books regarding the danger
http://www.doaj.org/doaj?func=abstract&id=1020014
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/A/AmesTest.html - the test used to measure mutagenic properties
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/areca.htm
every single one of these confirms the toxicity and carcinogenic properties of safrole. if you dont want to believe the risk, then that is your decision. but to me and many others, any carcinogen i can avoided is definitely worth the effort. you dont need to refute my claim when i am just trying to make sure people are aware of the risk, no matter how small you perceive it to be in your reality.
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dammit.
i always don't wash my gear because a) i'm lazy & b) i don't want to fuck my gear up.
but this is a pretty good breakdown.
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Hgcl2 is used to create an aluminum amalgam which is then used as a reducing agent in transforming MDP2P to mdma freebase. Generally the freebase is extracted via solvent washing and seperation. If the seperation is not performed properly mercury will end up reacting with hcl gas during salting and form mercuric chloride. There are other reducing agents but hgcl2 is by far the most common and available to clandestine labs.
Okay I understand this (vaguely), But I can't actually find any instances where MDMA has actually contained any, only talk that it's possible. I'm not trying to bash what you're saying, I was rather concerned when I read it and started searching away, but I can't actually find anything to suggest that's it's a practical worry for users.
@modest mouse,
Absorption, metabolism and excretion of safrole in the rat and man, Toxicology, Volume 7, Issue 1, February 1977, Pages 69–83
Ranking Possible Cancer Hazards on the HERP Index (on safroles carcinogenicity)
And from Google research (can't see a paper) I understand that there are no carcinogenic properties in MDMA anyway, a precursor being carcinogenic doesn't matter.
Loosely linked (but not really relevant) - http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/news/ecstasy-could-bring-joy-to-cancer-sufferers
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Thank you for the write up paxpax.
Step 3
Heat your IPA to just boiling
Have a perhaps silly question....Whats the best way to heat up the IPA? Could i put the IPA in a glass jar then put in a water bath or would that risk water getting into the IPA? Could i put a lid on the jar or would that be unsafe because of pressure build-up?.
Also for the IPA & Acetone if the bottle claims 100% and I use straight out of unopened bottle is dehydration with MgSO4 necessary?
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you NEVER heat a closed container of a solvent, because of the pressure as you mention
a water bath might work - generally it is just a hot plate or even electric burner, just NOT an open flame
you have to specifically buy anhydrous acetone, even 100 percent acetone will still have some water in it. not sure about 100 % ipa
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Thank you for the write up paxpax.
Step 3
Heat your IPA to just boiling
Have a perhaps silly question....Whats the best way to heat up the IPA? Could i put the IPA in a glass jar then put in a water bath or would that risk water getting into the IPA? Could i put a lid on the jar or would that be unsafe because of pressure build-up?.
Also for the IPA & Acetone if the bottle claims 100% and I use straight out of unopened bottle is dehydration with MgSO4 necessary?
Micro is correct on his heating methods and cautions. The IPA can be heated over an electric element, or hot plate in any suitable vessel. Pyrex glass is perferred but a stainless steel pot would suffice. A water bath is not recomended, if you are concerned about uneven heating then an oil bath would be a better choice.
Concerning acetone. Your typical hardware store acetone is far from reagent grade. Acetone is extremely hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the air. A drying agent is necessary. Remember mdma.hcl is fully soluble in water. Skipping the mgso4 will reduce your yield.
While IPA is not as hygroscopic, it is industrial grade and may contain wster. Water here will inhibit crystal formation.
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:OOOOOO
very good post! You made washing clear and concise.
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Thanks MicroDNA and papax for your quick replies.
The store bought acetone was clear in color but after shaking in a jar with the dried MgSO4 it became a milky white color. I let it sit for around an hour.
Is it normal for the acetone to turn from clear to a milky white color at this stage?
I then filtered this milky white acetone through a coffee filter but this did not remove the milky color. I also noticed there was a tiny amount of white sediment at the bottom of the jar.
I then filtered through 3 layers of coffee filters with cotton wool between the layers, this removed the sediment but the milky color remained.
Would this acetone be OK to use or should it be clear after drying with MgS04.
Perhaps the MgSO4 has impurities or the coffee filters are not good enough? I used Epsom salts from the grocery store which looked like the clear see-through crystals in this picture:
http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion/view.php?image=4730f27fac8d66a92ea02415a7b585df.jpg
After heating for around 1.2 hrs @ 205 Celsius in the oven the Epsom salts turned to a non see-through white clumpy powder. Is this normal?
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that visible change in the salt indicates the dehydration worked, so that is a good thing it turned white
it should still be clear - that indicates MgSO4 left in the acetone
best thing to do is let it sit undisturbed overnight or longer if necessary until the salt settles to the bottom
then you can pull the clear acetone off the top or gently pour it without disturbing the settled layer
you shouldnt really use the acetone with a bunch of MgSO4 because you will probably end up with a significant amount in your mdma. this will make weighing doses inaccurate and you might consume too much mgso4 which acts as a laxative - not generally fun for most situations people take mdma
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that visible change in the salt indicates the dehydration worked, so that is a good thing it turned white
it should still be clear - that indicates MgSO4 left in the acetone
best thing to do is let it sit undisturbed overnight or longer if necessary until the salt settles to the bottom
then you can pull the clear acetone off the top or gently pour it without disturbing the settled layer
you shouldnt really use the acetone with a bunch of MgSO4 because you will probably end up with a significant amount in your mdma. this will make weighing doses inaccurate and you might consume too much mgso4 which acts as a laxative - not generally fun for most situations people take mdma
+1
A suggestion. Keep your mason jar with acetone and mgso4 sealed and im the freezer. When needed decant off some of the top layer with a shot glass.
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Would a custom tip(flattened 12" copper/ceramic rod) attached to a 30w soldering iron be usable for a submersible heating element of potentially dangerous solvents?
A few years ago I ran into a bit of trouble when 1L of DMT containing naptha lit up and an entire weeks worth of work was gone as well as half my kitchen when the oil bath got too hot.
Since then I've been looking at alternative heating methods and I've always liked the idea of a submersible heating element. but I havn't done a tek big enough to warrant it in the proceeding years.
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i dont honestly know if that would work but it seems dangerous to me in concept. also, given it is only heating from one point instead of a large surface area such as an entire pot's bottom and sides it would be very inefficient i believe
unless you have a gas stove top i think i would just recommend using the stove and maybe a thermometer- is that what you were doing when the naptha caught fire? how did it occur if i may ask, just burst into flames? maybe monitor the temp to keep it far from the ignition/flash temp
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I'm going to preface this by mentioning that I was 16 years old at the time, I was also quite lazy and extremely impulsive. Trust me when I say that I learned my lesson well in the proceeding years.
Anwyays, yeah we were using a gas stove top. We didn't have any access to electrical heating devices at all and we had spent a week doing a single pull of about 8kg of bark. Prior to this tek, our largest extraction was 500grams. We were very inexperienced with such large amounts of chems.
We decided to take the risk and put the evap tray in a (very large) hot water bath over a gas stove on the smallest flame possible.
It worked well for about 20-30 minutes, then I assume the concentration of naptha vapor in the area reached a high enough level to ignite from the flame of the stove.
I want to figure out a way of heating the liquid rather than the container. I don't have any lab equiptment and I have no way of procuring any. I have just finished extracting D amphetamine using shotglasses and pyrex measuring cups that were designed for home cooking and it was way too difficult to do quite a few of the required steps without heat. I still have no access to electric heating but for some of my future projects I will need to use hot solvent washes and I don't really like the idea of a repeat performance.
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Can anyone offer a good ratio of acetone (or IPA):MgS04:MDMA ratio? If I do this I want to be sure not to f it up. Also, I assume the acetone from the hardware store have more water and would thus need more MgSO4?
Does this same method work for cocaine HCl and are the ratios the same?
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If you have to ask that question, you definitely shouldn't be cooking MDMA. Acetone wash is one of the safest parts of the entire procedure. If you attempt this, you will be working with some very dangerous chemicals and you probably won't have any idea what they do or how to use them safely.
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MgSO4 and acetone are actually very safe relatively, compared to most chemicals - the mdma and cocaine are probably just as dangerous
just add an excess of baked epsom salt, a lot, for some reason i seem to think there might possibly be a visible change - until it stops absorbing water and remains white and clumpy possibly (i dont remember if you can tell) but i dont know the exact ratio, i think it might be ten or twenty grams per 8 oz or liter, its been too long - just dump in a lot to be safe and let it all sink to the bottom by gravity leaving clear acetone on the top to use
in addition to mdma hcl you can also use it for cocaine hcl, mescaline salts and i believe dmt salts but might be remembering incorrectly for that one
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Don't need it for DMT salts as acetone washes aren't really that useful with DMT, its easier/less change of a screw up to just double a/b it.
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Thanks for the great guide. I think I might try this on my molly.
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isopropyl alcohol can be separated from aqueous solutions by adding a salt such as sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, or any of several other inorganic salts, since the alcohol is much less soluble in saline solutions than in salt-free water. The process is colloquially called salting out, and causes concentrated isopropyl alcohol to separate into a distinct layer.
The water layer will go to the bottom after shake/wait/shake/wait/etc with MgSO4 so if I'm not mistaken it is important to pull the alcohol off the top of leave the salt/water mixture behind.
Also, MgSO4 is slightly soluble in IPA so even when the alcohol is poured through the filter some MgSO4 will go with it. You'd have to distill the alcohol to remove all of the MgSO4.
I'm not a chemist so I'm just putting this stuff out and then the experts can correct me.
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+1 tyvm
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cool tips.
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This thread could use an awesome bump. :)
I completed my sixth and final wash and recrystallization of luckylucianno's product on Sunday and it finished drying today. Of the 20,010mg I ran through the process, I received a fantastic 17,718mg of beautiful crystalline MDMA with only a very, very slight tan hue that is just barely visible in the picture and only when the shards are clumped together. When the crystal is broke down into a fine powder, it is completely white. The amount of loss I experienced is very, very good and is on point with what you should see.
Before: http://wuakd3inzzy5iz4w.onion/images/0ae9d90882a2c2c6747666e6e76205bb.jpg
After: http://wuakd3inzzy5iz4w.onion/images/7ae9c1418552e04072c503052382a9ad.jpg
I recommend anyone that is interested in having an absolutely pure product, or those that are interested in a straightforward, simple, and rewarding chemistry experiment, to go about washing and recrystallizing their MDMA. The method that I followed is very similar to the one paxpax posted a while back that can be found here: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=45508
Please note that I went through the process SIX times in order to achieve this beautiful of a product and isn't typically practical as after the 2nd/3rd wash, the loss of impurities is quite negligible. I went through with this little experiment only for novelties sake and in order to attain gorgeous MDMA crystals.
Here is my previous wash on luckylucianno's product from a few months back (pictures are down and I no longer have them stored locally, sadly):
So I'm sure most of you have come across the infamous brown MDMA that Rainbow Vomit and Gelman offered a while back. You can find pictures of it here:
http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion/view.php?image=9d0ce66ccb996a225e7f13ae6974ff4a.jpg
http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion/view.php?image=50d944a1f44b855a5144c17e8fc33973.jpg
I fortunately had the opportunity to grab a bit of it before they both disappeared, and decided to run a small experiment to see just how pure this MDMA was and threw 3g through a rigorous acetone wash. This took me a few weeks to complete (a wash here and there, as my schedule allowed and drying permitted), but I finally settled on finishing at the 6th wash. What I revealed was just as expected -- this MDMA is very pure. Of the 3g (3,004mg to be exact) I ran through the wash, I yielded a very pleasant 2,371mg of washed MDMA and the crystals that have come through are absolutely beautiful. Here is a picture:
http://xfq5l5p4g3eyrct7.onion/view.php?image=14d495a436f63f7c0ecb7a98c3c3cd3d.jpg
I have ran a few acetone washes before but this was the most surprising in the fact that the starting product was very tan, brown almost, and it yielded the most final product. I have ran very white/off-white crystal before only to be disappointed when 2g disappeared before my eyes into 700mg. This also reinforces the fact that color does not indicate purity! So while I'm a little late to the party, if you happen to come across this fine product in your ventures, be sure to pick it up. This MDMA is absolutely amazing.
This has been a public service announcement detailing how you should be sure to wash your MDMA! You'll be happy you did, kiddos. :)
Any questions you guys may have, please feel free to PM me with them! My chemistry knowledge is rather intermediate, but I'll definitely offer you with as much insight as I can. This is a simple process assuming care, precision, and proper equipment are all followed. Cheers! :)
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Subscribing.
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Unfortunately most people, think that white mdma with no smell is weak mdma...
Just the way of the world and people without knowledge i suppose
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Nice guide, will definitely try this with some brown crystals I've got laying around! :)
Is it safe to say you yield something like 95-99% MDMA.HCl after about two or three washes (+recrystallization)?
Some info I found on the acetone/MgSo4 ratio:
NOTE: Acetone is dried using Anhydrous MgSo4. Add 20g MgSO4 per liter of solvent.IPA can be dried using CaO.*** Also Acetonitrile is supposed to be very good at recrystallizing MDMA
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thanks OP for this, could be useful. +1
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Ah thank you! Very well written guide.
When recrystallizing product, if there are cutting agents present that crytallizes with the MDMA, then recrytallization would be pointless right? This leads me to my next question, what is MDMA usually cut with?
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subscribing ;)
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Does washing MDMA in this way allow to increase the purity beyond 84% or does this same synthesis limitation still apply?
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Does washing MDMA in this way allow to increase the purity beyond 84% or does this same synthesis limitation still apply?
No. When people say 84% purity MDMA, they are talking about MDMA.HCl
16% of the weight is HCl.
It is really the purest you can get in salt/solid form.
If you want just 100% MDMA, you would need to convert it to freebase, which is a liquid.
Please see this thread for further comments
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=120940.0
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84, 85, 87%, I'm getting confused now. Where's the truth ?
edit: after some googling, it seems that there is no final word on this debate, lots of savvy lab talk and calculus, but no agreement.
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This is a lot of good info. Thanks OP
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ill be trying this next week with a batch of unpure MDMA
ill post pics ;)
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I have some reagent grade acetone that I use for washing coke every now and again, but I'm coming up to the end of a 3-month MDMA break, so I figured hey, I'll wash my supply! I have 3 different vendors represented, below are the results of the wash. Actually, I have 4 vendors in my stash, but the few hundred mg I have left of Dopeboy's stuff I wouldn't touch. Silly, but it's the first thing I ever bought off the road, and I'm saving it. :)
Procedure: each vendor's MDMA was ground using a ceramic mortar and pestle to a fine powder. Powder was then weighed, and placed directly into a flask (so weight numbers wouldn't reflect losses to the grinding). Each sample got 40 ml of acetone, was stirred into suspension, allowed to settle for 5 minutes, and was stirred into suspension again. After pouring the clear acetone at the top of the sample, this was repeated 2 more times. Everything into the filter, dried for 24+ hours to allow residual acetone to evaporate, and the samples were reweighed.
NOTE! If you've done a cocaine wash, you might be tempted to heat the M&P. (Some people chop their coke on a warm plate, same thing.) When grinding coke, this helps break up the powder. Don't do that. I lost maybe 2-300 mg of MDMA when something in the first sample melted well under 150 F. No good. Don't be dumb like me, grind cold.
Sample 1: Skyy (before he did his runner)
Weight before: 2870
Weight after: 2260
78% Acetone insoluble
Sample 2: Ivory
Weight before: 4120
Weight after: 3475
84% Acetone insoluble
Sample 3: Symbiosis
Weight before: 2025
Weight after: 1650
82% Acetone insoluble
Note that I'm definitely NOT saying any of these were some % pure and certainly they are not now 100% pure MDMA. But, even in Ivory's stuff which showed the best under this test, out of every 100mg I will not be ingesting 16mg of some random unwanted substance, which is awesome.
I do find it funny that they landed so close to that 84% number that causes some confusion. Coincidence. There you go, for what it's worth!
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Is the recrystallization process necessary? IPA (anhydrous) is highly watched around here.
Could one wash with acetone and then use the product from there?
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Great information all, subscribing...
blahblah1234
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The 84% number comes from MDMA HCl, which is the most common stable form of MDMA. Freebase (pure MDMA) would be too unstable to ship or store with any reliability, so you will always see MDMA as a salt, usually MDMA HCl. (not sure if other salts are even produced or stable) The 84% number comes from taking the molar mass of MDMA divided by the molar mass of MDMA HCl - ie by mass 84% of the molecule you're consuming MDMA, the rest of that molecule is HCl. Something in the first few chapters of an entry level chemistry text should explain that if you're confused.
Not to say washing your stuff is pointless, maybe its a reasonable precaution depending on ones risk tolerance. Me though I'm not convinced that there's much point to washing. I'd need to see A.) an analysis, GC, MS or even by pure stochiometry showing that HgCl is present, or other potentially dangerous precursors and B.) something showing the levels of said precursors are high enough to be significantly toxic/carcinogenic/mutagenic, etc because the dose makes the poison as much as the identity of the poison itself does.
Considering all the drug war propaganda out there you'd think they'd be raving constantly about this if leftover precursors and such were a serious health threat.
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Here's a post by asdfsquared on the 84% subject I think you all will find interesting...
Okay you all, I'm going to drop some chemistry knowledge on you.
First off, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of vendors that say 'lab tested, xx% pure" are completely full of shit.
Secondly, as far as the discussion with whether or not the salt counts in the percentage measurement, there are two numbers a lab would give relating to the purity of a powder like this. The actual purity, and the w/w ratio. You are correct in that if indeed the manufacturer used HCl to salt the final product, it could only reach an 84% w/w concentration (assuming your math is right, I didn't check it). However, that's not what a purity testing lab would do. If you were truly measuring purity, the weight of the HCl would be included in that number. Any vendor worth his salt would post the higher number, since most silk-roadians knowledge of this subject is fairly small.
When you buy Benadryl, the box doesn't read "diphenhydramine 25mg before adding the weight of HCl". No, the 25mg amount includes the HCl used for salting. And it is recorded as 99+% pure.
Why is MDMA never found in concentrations above 84%? My guess? Vendors think noone would believe them if they posted higher, since most pulled the number out of their ass to begin with.
It is possible, however, that MDMA.HCl is fairly hydroscopic, and some of the weight is water. That would leave the molly to be but 84% pure. Or it's just always cut below that. I don't know much about MDMA itself.
I guess my point is that those numbers are all bs anyways, don't listen to them. listen to reviews.
Want to test the absolute purity of your MDMA? Grab a small glass vial, a thermometer, and a pot of canola oil. Put a little of the molly in the glass vial, and place the glass vial and thermometer in the pot of canola oil. Put the canola oil on the stove. Slowly increase the temp of the oil so that it increases at a rate of about 1-2 deg cel per minute. At around 147 deg C, the molly should melt sharply over about a 1-2 degrees cel range. The more impure it is, the wider the range. How wide the range is depends on the melting point of the impurities, so its hard to get an exact purity out of this, but it will give you a good idea.
As far as crystal size goes, crystal size is truly dependent upon the method of how you crystallized your final product. If you used clean, scratch-free glassware and pure solvents in a dust-free environment, allowed the solution to cool to the point of crystallization very very slowly, then dropped in a tiny seed crystal in a large pot of solution, there's no reason you couldn't see crystals the size of a basketball. Crystallization is ALL technique.
Just today in lab I was waiting for my product to crystallize and got a tad impatient so I took a glass stir bar and scratched it back and forth across the bottom of the beaker. My final product was very salt-like, with virtually no large crystals. If I do it the patient way, I end up with large crystals, typically peaking around the size of grains of rice (this is in only 5ml of solution!). Imagine the crystal sizes you could achieve using 1L+ of solution, as in clandestine laboratories! Most clandestine chemists are impatient and cheap, and it is the equipment and procedures they use cause the MDMA to crystallize in small chunks, not the MDMA itself.
Certain compounds used as filler could, due to the interactions between the filler and solvent, crystallize easier, resulting in larger, more appealing looking crystals and a less pure product. However, this is not always the case, and large crystals could also be indicative of a skilled chemist.
As far as color is concerned, a very small amount of impurity can generate a very large amount of color. If you were dealing with pharmaceutical manufacture, those colors would be a very large deal. But since your not, and frankly, you're lucky if a fresh batch doesn't contain heavy metals from hardware store chemicals, the color isn't indicative of much. Other than perhaps the method of synthesis.
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stupid question but what you put in the coffee filter and dump acetone over will be your end product, not what comes through the filter into a jar? should you double up the coffee filters? What if you could get ahold of some whatman filters like used in pharma compounding would those be any better?
Then you just let it air dry for probably 24 hrs at room temperature? this seems easy enough im going to have to give it a try. i have some of LL's stuff several people told me gave them massive headaches days later so im wondering if washing it would help.
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stupid question but what you put in the coffee filter and dump acetone over will be your end product, not what comes through the filter into a jar? should you double up the coffee filters? What if you could get ahold of some whatman filters like used in pharma compounding would those be any better?
Then you just let it air dry for probably 24 hrs at room temperature? this seems easy enough im going to have to give it a try. i have some of LL's stuff several people told me gave them massive headaches days later so im wondering if washing it would help.
first i have heard of this. how much did they take/were they drinking alcohol/other drugs. finally which batch was it. as i have heard there have been 2
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Several doings were taken. Honeslty one friend does too much so i told him his input is worhtless. Another couple wouldnt take it anymore after they got bad headaces. Actualy a friend and I did some and he only did 120mg test on a random day. He text me the next day the shit was awesome but his head was killing. 2 beers were drank no other drugs. The headache complaint came from 2 dif batches. I have 3 batches in small amounts left dating back to late dec through now. I love the stuff. My one complaint is it does not make me want to have sex on it, it kind of hinders it though i do feel great. If i add in Methylone ( i had a few caps) that totally changed things. i was up like a rabbit all night. Kinda strange but again i know everyone is effected different. I love the stuff regardless i just might try washing it to see if that helps with headaches.
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So to clarify will washing/recrystallization result in pure MDMA.HCL?
For example will it remove all other MD-XX compounds or will these remain
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do you have to re crystalize it? i understand for resale purposes people might want it but if all im doing is cleaning it for a cleaner end product what do i care about re crystilaztion?
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I mostly just do benzos, but I've been thinking of trying mdma. What SR vendors sell mdma so good that I don't have to worry about any of this shit you guys have been talking about? Or, should I just stick with drugs that are more low-maintenance?
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So to clarify will washing/recrystallization result in pure MDMA.HCL?
For example will it remove all other MD-XX compounds or will these remain
Nope.
It'll still have most everything it went in there with. It's good for cleaning out organic stuff (it you buy MDMA cut with flour you should either clean it or stop buying your drugs at the bakery) but the reason you are using acetone to clean the MDMA is that MDMA does not dissolve in acetone and neither do a lot of other things. I could cut MDMA with dozens of other cheaper white powders and you could wash away the day and still have the same ration of cut to MDMA.
Personally I would love to have 100% clean MDMA I just hate the idea that someone might think washing is going to guarantee that that which it will not.
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subbed
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Thanks for the info on givin' her a good wash!
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So to clarify will washing/recrystallization result in pure MDMA.HCL?
For example will it remove all other MD-XX compounds or will these remain
Nope.
It'll still have most everything it went in there with. It's good for cleaning out organic stuff (it you buy MDMA cut with flour you should either clean it or stop buying your drugs at the bakery) but the reason you are using acetone to clean the MDMA is that MDMA does not dissolve in acetone and neither do a lot of other things. I could cut MDMA with dozens of other cheaper white powders and you could wash away the day and still have the same ration of cut to MDMA.
Personally I would love to have 100% clean MDMA I just hate the idea that someone might think washing is going to guarantee that that which it will not.
The acetone wash is to remove non polar organics, not cut. The non polar organics are typically any remaining or unreacted precursors, the most critical being Mercuric Chloride or MDP2P. You do not want this in your body.
The crystallization via boiling IPA is intended to remove cut. There are few, if any, compounds that share solubility properties with MDMA while still resembling MDMA. For example, MDMA is a polar compound while IPA is a non polar solvent. IPA's ability to dissolve MDMA at temperature is somewhat unique.
I make no claim that the process outlined earlier in this thread will remove all cutting agents but it will remove 90% of all organic impurities and a wide range of common cutting agents rendering a safer product.
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Updated tek with new methods for faster processing and a few additional warnings.
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Super post. Thanks
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I mostly just do benzos, but I've been thinking of trying mdma. What SR vendors sell mdma so good that I don't have to worry about any of this shit you guys have been talking about? Or, should I just stick with drugs that are more low-maintenance?
Dont worry get pressed pills, I like brown sugar for what it is Im not trying to make the island part 2 hardcore its already like that, I think some of you are forgetting these are drugs and what end are you on.
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Updated with quick clean tec
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Subscribing