Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: Burning Man on May 27, 2013, 05:55 pm
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Long story short:
I bought 50 g:s of powder from a reputable vendor (+1 year, 98% feedback, +300 sales). Everything was fine and dandy until I started suspecting the gear was cut. A lot of communication between me and the vendor, and finally the vendor agrees this is the case - he got it lab checked. It's cut, but no more than 10% max, says the vendor, and offers me some extra for my next order.
OK, everything seems to be fairly good in my end: the vendor is agreeing screwing up, and promising me some extra. However, I am having some issues:
1) I believe the gear to be cut with more than what the vendor agrees. I'm thinking more like a 30% cut.
2) The extra I'm promised is not very much in my opinion. Then again, 50% is a normal refund for the item not showing up at all, I got my product after all, even though it is not quite what it should have been.
3) If I choose to accept the extra, how can I be sure the stuff I get next is any better?
And finally the biggest question...
4) I have not gone public with this. Should I?
The vendor is very established, and their feedback is good in regards to the stuff I got. Everyone is happy with the product, there are no reviews suggesting the gear is not as advertised. Now this gets me wondering, did the vendor pull a little cutting scam on me only? Or do people not realize that the product is not what it is advertised as? I'm puzzled.
Then again, the vendor was honest with me and agreed there really was cutting agents in there (completely harmless, mind you). Why would they do that if they weren't truly sorry? I believe that if they completely ignored me, and I would have gone public in a big way, this would have caused some debate, which would have been forgotten very soon and things would get back to normal. I am not a big time buyer whose accusations would make a difference, even though my stats are perfect and I have spent a decent amount here.
Ideas, thoughts?
(I hope this gets seen from the newbie discussion. I have never had a reason to write to the forums before. I don't really think the "50 post limit" helps anyone. I've never had anything of importance to write here, and now that I do, I'm stuck in a section of the forums I fear is not read much. Oh well.
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I hear you. 50 seems a little high, unless I'm missing some sort of automated way to increase your post count (if so, that even further dilutes any point to the 50 post requirement).
If it were me, I'd keep the 50 post for most forums, but newbie should be 0 posts, and a vendor review forum should be no more than 20 posts.
Think about it, only those most active really use this board a whole lot so their post count wouldn't matter anyway. The rest of us come here for only a few reasons really: read a review thread, post in a review thread, check site status, maybe read the odd newbie freakout thread (ZOMG SR VENDOR BUSTED IN AUSTRALIA! - whatever).
Admin(s): Consider a separate vendor review forum with a lower post limit!
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Don't go public yet. If you think you should get best refund, talk to the vendor about it.
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Don't go public yet. If you think you should get best refund, talk to the vendor about it.
Thank you Tyrion. Although I generally hate the Lannisters, you're ok.
I'm not that worried about numbers 1 & 2. I'm not in it for the money, but for the quality. I wish I could be sure that I'm getting what I think I'm getting. Number 3 is a bigger concern, although I think that in this case the vendor would do everything in their power to provide me with a kick ass product, at least I would.
But number 4 is about the community, all the people here buying what they think is a quality product - and then it is not. I sure as hell wouldn't like to get a product that is not as good as advertised, and then find out someone else, who is also a part of this community, knew about the product being cut and didn't call it out.
In the end, it would only do this place good if everything would be as transparent as possible. Anonymous labtests and whatnot. Someone scams you, you shout it out. Someone sells a product not as advertised, you shout it out. Someone offers exceptional service, you shout it out. And now I could do it, and don't want to do it because in the end I'm very very happy with the service I got, very professional. But what about the community? The rest of the people?
(To make it clear, I am not saying I was scammed. Maybe the vendor is the one who was scammed, idk. But they are responsible for the product they sell...)
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maybe i ask to get a better a picture of the story what the product was
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Long story short:
I bought 50 g:s of powder from a reputable vendor (+1 year, 98% feedback, +300 sales). Everything was fine and dandy until I started suspecting the gear was cut. A lot of communication between me and the vendor, and finally the vendor agrees this is the case - he got it lab checked. It's cut, but no more than 10% max, says the vendor, and offers me some extra for my next order.
OK, everything seems to be fairly good in my end: the vendor is agreeing screwing up, and promising me some extra. However, I am having some issues:
1) I believe the gear to be cut with more than what the vendor agrees. I'm thinking more like a 30% cut.
2) The extra I'm promised is not very much in my opinion. Then again, 50% is a normal refund for the item not showing up at all, I got my product after all, even though it is not quite what it should have been.
3) If I choose to accept the extra, how can I be sure the stuff I get next is any better?
And finally the biggest question...
4) I have not gone public with this. Should I?
The vendor is very established, and their feedback is good in regards to the stuff I got. Everyone is happy with the product, there are no reviews suggesting the gear is not as advertised. Now this gets me wondering, did the vendor pull a little cutting scam on me only? Or do people not realize that the product is not what it is advertised as? I'm puzzled.
Then again, the vendor was honest with me and agreed there really was cutting agents in there (completely harmless, mind you). Why would they do that if they weren't truly sorry? I believe that if they completely ignored me, and I would have gone public in a big way, this would have caused some debate, which would have been forgotten very soon and things would get back to normal. I am not a big time buyer whose accusations would make a difference, even though my stats are perfect and I have spent a decent amount here.
Ideas, thoughts?
(I hope this gets seen from the newbie discussion. I have never had a reason to write to the forums before. I don't really think the "50 post limit" helps anyone. I've never had anything of importance to write here, and now that I do, I'm stuck in a section of the forums I fear is not read much. Oh well.
The only thing that matters at all in this discussion is...
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...Was the product as advertised?
If someone is selling "Magic Pixie Dust 89% pure!" and it's 70% pure, then you make it public. You destroy that vendor. The "I didn't know it was cut" line is for marks on the street, not intelligent businessmen. You ALWAYS know what quality your product is, so you can market it properly.
If I go and pass off M1 as MDMA, I am a bad vendor. If I sell 70% pure coke at 82% quality, I am a bad vendor. If I am marketing cut ANYTHING as "pure", then I am responsible for that.
You do what you want - drug users often will let things slip that a businessman wouldn't. I wouldn't let any vendor who sells me less-than-advertise product off the hook, unless the payoff was amazing.
Just my .02 BTC.
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why don't you take the new product the vendor is offering you, and then test again? If it is not what it should be then you shout it.
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i was just asking because i thought maybe the original poster has developed a tolerance? did you let anyone else try the product and get there opinion?
i totally agree with the other poster about how it was advertised. unless it was stated pure or uncut then i would take his offer. almost everything has been stepped on down the road, coke, h, k, meth. i never believe any vendor who says they have 100% pure. its just not happening.
i think you are doing the right thing by taking this up with the vendor first before going public! but realistically everything your gonna buy is cut it will just depend on how much. hopefully the vendor didnt cut it himself but it was probably stepped on before they got it
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50 posts kinda sucks, but you really can get it done pretty quick
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Thanks for your input everyone!
I have to disagree a little concerning the products sold here. I think that the default should be that if a product is not said to be cut, then we the customers should assume it is "pure". I know that it is not the case mostly, and I definitely know that the stuff on the street sold as "pure" never ever is.
But I think that SR should be here to fix this. The vendor is responsible for their gear, and we should assume the vendor knows what they are selling. And when they put up a listing, they should clearly state what it is. If they don't, then how the end user can know what they are buying? The feedback system and the forums are here to help us, the buyers, to make more knowledgeable choices regarding the vendors.
I'm not going in to detail as to what it was I ordered, as it makes no difference. Nor am I going to say anything else about the listings exact wording. It is enough that I say the product was not as advertised, and even the vendor acknowledges that.
I think I'm gonna take the offer, and if the problem is not fixed, I'm going to make it public. What really puzzles me, though, is that I see more and more reviews of the product, and no-one is questioning the quality. Doesn't anyone else notice anything weird? Was I the only one?
And btw, this is not about tolerance, that's for sure.
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Do you have other vendors that you can get good product from? If not, then I'd be weary about burning any bridges. If you name and shame them and then try to purchase from them, that seems incredibly risky in terms of what they could be supplying you. But I guess that's a rather selfish way of approaching it, and from the sounds of it you're rather conscious of the fact that other people are impacted by this vendor lying (knowingly or otherwise) to them.
On the other hand, if they're supplying a cut product, perhaps you have an obligation to let everyone know? I guess it's just a matter of personal judgement. You could always find someone on the forums to run an independent test and then they could publicize it.
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I'd really like to know what the product was?
~how did you ascertain it was cut?
~how did you decide that %age?
~ how did the vendor "admit" it was cut? overtly? implied?
~why a 50% reship? You got the product right? It very much depends on what it is. 80% heroin cut to 70%??? pah! wouldn't worry about it. 50% coke cut to 35%??? yeah I'd be annoyed plus we feel an oblligation to tell other members the truth about a vendor. We got fucked over by Jesusof Rave and his little army of supporters caned us hard!
Looking forward to hearing from you
m m m motek
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I would definitely get a test kit, and compare purity with the vendors result. There's always resolution center, 7-10 days on that option I believe.
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I have to disagree a little concerning the products sold here. I think that the default should be that if a product is not said to be cut, then we the customers should assume it is "pure". I know that it is not the case mostly, and I definitely know that the stuff on the street sold as "pure" never ever is.
see i always think cut should be default. its just whether the cut happened before the vendor or if the vendor cut it before he sold it to you.
all a vendor can do is guarantee that they have not cut the product
even if you get junk or coke right off the brick its cut and not all vendors use there product so they might not know.
when he offered to send you a new sample, is it from the same batch or a new batch?
if its from the same batch and now its better you will know he cut it
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Hey guys, sorry for the delay :)
To Motek, and others too:
- Ok, the vendor did not offer a reship, and I did not ask for one. The reason I mentioned reship / refund was, that many vendors offer 50% in cases the product never arrives. Reflecting to that, my offer of xx% discount on next order is fine - I did receive the product.
- The vendor had the gear tested, so he knows it was cut. I asked him, because I noticed it was cut just by examining the product. It was fairly obvious.
- I am not sure of the percentage, but from user experience (me and others) I'd say 30ish %. Just a guestimation though.
- It wasn't heroin, it wasn't coke. Something from the amph family.
all a vendor can do is guarantee that they have not cut the product
No, the vendor (at least if he's not a small timer) should test the products they sell, every batch of them. That's how business should be conducted. They should not trust their sources, and shoud not leave the testing to their clients.
But in the end, everything is fine.
The vendor made me a better offer (even though I did not even ask for one). They halted their sales on the product, and they have contacted other customers too. I think they have been reasonably honest with me and other customers too. I'm happy, and I will take the offer they made me. I'm not gonna name them if the next batch is what it should be.
Thank you for your input everyone. Much appreciated!
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Well handled BurningMan. As a vendor if I were ever to have a dispute about my product I would like them to handle it the way you did. If he messes up again then you nail him to the wall but you talked to him cordially and came to a solution. Props.
WD
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If I bought 50 g's of a product I would also buy a test kit to check purity. It's a smart investment to make. The big problem I am having lately with H vendors is that several of them are stating that their bags weigh100mg or more and they simply don't. In fact, when i buy 30+ of them and I am lucky if even 3 or 4 weigh 100mg, with most right around 75mg. This is a huge discrepancy but I don't want to ruin my relationship with vendors when there are so few H vendors on the road. My scale is accurate to .0002+/-
The issue isn't cut or weight as they are all cut and all under weight, the issue is honesty from vendors and what we can expect from them.
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nice to know everything went well Burning Man.
You handled it pretty well, congratz
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and +1 to you =)