Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: sorasgaze on November 15, 2012, 10:11 am
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So I'm sure we all saw the news and media bullshit about zombies and bath salts, and they say bath salt blends would cause excited delirium which was why people were acting that way. You never know what the fuck is in the legal highs you're buying and as far as I know, only the mixed stuff sold in stores caused people to act like that, but is it possible to "turn into a zombie" with MDPV alone? I'm talking about small doses, throughout the day, I could definitely see how psychosis could make someone feel like that and do crazy shit after a few days of pure PV, but just wondering on small amounts without day long binges.
now to my other topic... (put both of these in one, obviously pointless for two threads)
Is it possible to have a heart attack and/or die from being on PV? I'm amazed by how much it messes with the way you think and act, and to see no deaths reported from MDPV alone shocked me, I looked everywhere too, couldn't find anything except deaths from people on store-bought bath salts. I've convinced myself almost always that I'm going to have a heart attack or cardiac arrest when I'm on it. Some PV users will know what I'm talking about when I mention sex/masturbation and MDPV. Unfortunately, I was one of those people that wasn't aware of the sexual effect from this, and was masturbating nonstop for approx. 7 hours straight, again, went to school with a sore dick and the only thought in my head was porn all day, if any of you have ever done this and have some good shit, you know the feeling. I got kinda side-tracked, so back to my question, couldn't it be even MORE likely to have a heart attack while jackin' it on PV? I'm not doing both of those, just on PV and when I think about my heart, it feels like it's hurting every now and then but I'm thinking it's probably paranoia although it is beating extremely fast as it should while on this.
I can't figure out why this drug is so crazy to your psychological health and could cause you to go insane within a day or two, yet apparently it's considered rather safe? I read that the toxicity is close to or safer than MDMA.
tl;dr: Is it possible to experience "excited delirium" on PV alone; can you have a heart attack on PV alone
I guess I'll ask this too since I'm on the topic, I have no benzos unfortunately and can't get any at this point or soon, could propanolol be helpful or bad for the comedown? I haven't read any solid information, just opinions, I know nothing of "beta blockers" and all this other stuff people were talking about.
Thanks!
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As I said in a thread I posted here a few days ago, I purchased what I thought was methylone and what I think is actually MDPV. To make this perfectly clear, I know what methylone is. I bought 20g of that stuff from China before it became illegal in the United States, and went through the entire amount without a problem - it didn't make my heart race at 110-120bpm, it didn't have me feeling scared for my health. This stuff that I purchased recently isn't methylone and has all the characteristics of MDPV. Even if it's not known to cause heart attacks, I don't see how this kind of thing can be considered safe at all.
Also, sex is better on methylone too. MDPV isn't even close.
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That's a *no* on the beta-blockers. Propranolol is a beta-blocker. If the generic name ends in -olol, there's a good chance it's a beta-blocker.
Not a lot out there on MDPV in particular but, as with other sympathomimetic drugs, the concern is that you can get a potential increase in hypertension due to unopposed alpha-adrenergic effects of the drug, same as cocaine. (This can be a dramatic increase.)
Best option I can think of would be benzodiazepines and a reasonable amount of fluids, option two would be reduced use.
Hyperthermia / dehydration are common and will further increase heart rate. (Hyperthermia's something I'd watch, that's the symptom that can escalate into something that gets people actually admitted most often.)
Can you go into cardiac arrest with MDPV alone? Rapid heart rate, obvious yes; other arrhythmias do indeed show up; fatal arrhythmia, rare, but there is at least one case report published this year with MDPV alone (published in March), and of course the case reports with other drugs. So, yes, you could. It's very improbable but it is possible.
To be fair, they did resus the guy after cardiac arrest in the March case report and he then died from hyperthermia, rhabdo, coagulopathy, metabolic derangement, and anoxic brain injury, so I guess you could say the arrest itself didn't kill him.
Excited delirium: yes, this is a possibility. Is it an option with small doses? Interesting question, I don't know the answer, my understanding is that it depends on past history / sensitization and maybe some other vulnerabilities.
More than you may want to know on excited delirium: Search for PMC3088378
If you read that, in combination with the brief description of MDPV action below, you can see how concern might arise.
It's like anything else you ingest, it's your choice between the fun quotient and the risk profile.
Overall, from the limited amount out there, there's a dose-response effect and increase in risk.
Apologies if the below abstract is a repost, I'm pretty certain this article's been cited here before and probably discussed to death.
The authors are not being histrionic in their title.
Neuropsychopharmacology , (17 October 2012) | doi:10.1038/npp.2012.204
Powerful Cocaine-Like Actions of 3,4-Methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV), a Principal Constituent of Psychoactive ‘Bath Salts’ Products
Abstract
The abuse of psychoactive ‘bath salts’ containing cathinones such as 3,4-methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV) is a growing public health concern, yet little is known about their pharmacology. Here, we evaluated the effects of MDPV and related drugs using molecular, cellular, and whole-animal methods. In vitro transporter assays were performed in rat brain synaptosomes and in cells expressing human transporters, while clearance of endogenous dopamine was measured by fast-scan cyclic voltammetry in mouse striatal slices. Assessments of in vivo neurochemistry, locomotor activity, and cardiovascular parameters were carried out in rats. We found that MDPV blocks uptake of [3H]dopamine (IC50=4.1 nm) and [3H]norepinephrine (IC50=26 nm) with high potency but has weak effects on uptake of [3H]serotonin (IC50=3349 nm). In contrast to other psychoactive cathinones (eg, mephedrone), MDPV is not a transporter substrate. The clearance of endogenous dopamine is inhibited by MDPV and cocaine in a similar manner, but MDPV displays greater potency and efficacy. Consistent with in vitro findings, MDPV (0.1–0.3 mg/kg, intravenous) increases extracellular concentrations of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens. Additionally, MDPV (0.1–3.0 mg/kg, subcutaneous) is at least 10 times more potent than cocaine at producing locomotor activation, tachycardia, and hypertension in rats. Our data show that MDPV is a monoamine transporter blocker with increased potency and selectivity for catecholamines when compared with cocaine. The robust stimulation of dopamine transmission by MDPV predicts serious potential for abuse and may provide a mechanism to explain the adverse effects observed in humans taking high doses of ‘bath salts’ preparations.
tl;dr: No, you should not take beta blockers with MDPV to make it more tolerable.
Yes, it's possible to go into an arrhythmia, potentially a fatal one, using MDPV alone.
Yes, excited delirium is a real thing and MDPV has some credible mechanism as a risk for the condition.
Both cardiac arrest and excited delirium are uncommon outcomes of use and appear somewhat (but not entirely) dose-dependent.
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Excited delirium- yes, maybe not after a dose or two but with prolonged/heavy use. Definitely.
Death/heart failure-yes. Fiance of mine last year went a little crazy and had a heart-attack in his sleep and died. Of course he did also take about 7 roxi's and smoke/snort an entire container of salts...which he'd actually been strung out for about a week on so...combo didn't help.
If you can't get benzos atm, just slowly taper until you do get them in hand. I definitely wouldn't use opiates of any sort.
Not sure what else to suggest for it since I did it only once and have sworn it off since then.
Good luck OP