Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: acidhead on April 27, 2013, 08:19 am

Title: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: acidhead on April 27, 2013, 08:19 am
There are of course different brands of Ketamine. Ketalar contains a preservative (benzthonium chloride, an anticholinergic agent) that has a significant effect upon the brain, and Astrapin’s Ketamine-500 contains the potentially neurotoxic chlorobutanol, which has shown harmful effects in chimpanzees. I wish there was a way to know what brand of ketamine I am taking. :(
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: guppy on April 27, 2013, 03:55 pm
There isn't unless you can acquire the vials and even then it can be questionable if the vials are authentic and if what you're left with after drying is pure Ketamine. Also I'm just speculating here but I think the majority of black market Ketamine would probably be sourced from manufacturers. I've read stories of factories in India running illicit productions of Ketamine during night time and then shipping before the normal daily activities resumed without much trace. If this is indeed the case it would be a lot easier to ship the product without putting it in vials first and thus most likely be "pure" Ketamine without preservatives.

If you're in a country that offers drug testing you could probably get an indication although I seriously doubt if they'll be able to tell you what trace amounts are left over from preservatives and such. The reported result would probably be % purity of Ketamine.

Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: slirp on April 30, 2013, 12:28 am
Ketalar contains a preservative (benzthonium chloride, an anticholinergic agent) that has a significant effect upon the brain

http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/lookup.cfm?setid=14b54219-f5fd-42fa-8784-719f9785497f

In the link above you can find that FDA approved for human use ketamine contains benzethonium chloride.  It is no higher than 0.1mg/mL.  Benzathonium is approved for use in a lot of products that come into contact with humans.  I don't know the particular data you're looking at but compared to the ketamine I doubt that a very small amount of benathonium is going to have a long-term detrimental effect on your brain.

That said, most of the Ketamine on SR coming from India factories rather than dried vials.  From vendors like Marcel Ketman is is always good quality based on the vast majority of reviews.  I'm sure there are some levels of impurities but it is very clean compared to say, 99.999% of MDMA you'll find.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: tree on April 30, 2013, 09:33 pm
Chlorobutanol isn't active at the doses it's used as a preservative for. Chlorobutanol doses are measured in grams, and it's no more toxic than alcohol. The tiny amounts of chlorobutanol in your ketamine won't do you more harm than a sip of beer.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on May 07, 2013, 03:49 am
If you stick with well trusted, tried and true vendors, youll be getting one of three types of K.

If your dealing with the smaller guys, they usual have the pharmaceutical vials. Others like Marcel, or Reich source either Racemic or S Isomer, which will always be specified on either the listing or their profiles. Most cases they will even tell you where the gear is sourced from, ie India, Netherlands, Germany etc. Much love dude.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: grdr on May 07, 2013, 06:25 am
hello I haven't tried ketamine yet but it was long on my to do list i wanted to know the difference between S-isomer and racemic ? What's the difference ?
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on May 07, 2013, 06:34 am
@ grdr...essentially, ones human grade, and the racemic is veterinary grade. The isomer is more psychedelic.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: joywind on May 07, 2013, 07:06 am
If you stick with well trusted, tried and true vendors, youll be getting one of three types of K.

If your dealing with the smaller guys, they usual have the pharmaceutical vials. Others like Marcel, or Reich source either Racemic or S Isomer, which will always be specified on either the listing or their profiles. Most cases they will even tell you where the gear is sourced from, ie India, Netherlands, Germany etc. Much love dude.
uh oh, i got ketamine from 'reich' (a long time ago, i still have it).

guess that means i got vet ketamine.....

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on May 07, 2013, 11:20 am
If you stick with well trusted, tried and true vendors, youll be getting one of three types of K.

If your dealing with the smaller guys, they usual have the pharmaceutical vials. Others like Marcel, or Reich source either Racemic or S Isomer, which will always be specified on either the listing or their profiles. Most cases they will even tell you where the gear is sourced from, ie India, Netherlands, Germany etc. Much love dude.
uh oh, i got ketamine from 'reich' (a long time ago, i still have it).

guess that means i got vet ketamine.....

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

Not necessarily, I get from Reich all the time, got 2gs on the way. His shit is primo.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: cerealbox on May 07, 2013, 11:40 am
@ grdr...essentially, ones human grade, and the racemic is veterinary grade. The isomer is more psychedelic.
That's not true at all. There's no such thing as veterinary and human grade Ketamine.

All Ketamine from medical sources is Racemic. You will never go to a hospital, need Ketamine and be given one isomer or the other. Racemic means it contains both S and R stereoisomers (mirror images). However, once people started using the stuff recreationally, people began to find that some stuff they were getting was better than others. It has been theorized that this is due to the exact mix of S and R Ketamine. I believe it is S that is believed to have the greater recreational value.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on May 07, 2013, 11:57 am
@ grdr...essentially, ones human grade, and the racemic is veterinary grade. The isomer is more psychedelic.
That's not true at all. There's no such thing as veterinary and human grade Ketamine.

All Ketamine from medical sources is Racemic. You will never go to a hospital, need Ketamine and be given one isomer or the other. Racemic means it contains both S and R stereoisomers (mirror images). However, once people started using the stuff recreationally, people began to find that some stuff they were getting was better than others. It has been theorized that this is due to the exact mix of S and R Ketamine. I believe it is S that is believed to have the greater recreational value.

Makes sense, but what i mean by that was, that back when Ket was used in , well where ever it was used for humans, operations id assume, i real some where that it would have been s isomer that would have been used. Where as when the tiger escapes the zoo, they pump him with a tranq chock full O' racemic.

Never the less, i could be dead wrong. Much love dude.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: slirp on May 08, 2013, 04:32 pm
@ grdr...essentially, ones human grade, and the racemic is veterinary grade. The isomer is more psychedelic.
That's not true at all. There's no such thing as veterinary and human grade Ketamine.

All Ketamine from medical sources is Racemic. You will never go to a hospital, need Ketamine and be given one isomer or the other. Racemic means it contains both S and R stereoisomers (mirror images). However, once people started using the stuff recreationally, people began to find that some stuff they were getting was better than others. It has been theorized that this is due to the exact mix of S and R Ketamine. I believe it is S that is believed to have the greater recreational value.

Makes sense, but what i mean by that was, that back when Ket was used in , well where ever it was used for humans, operations id assume, i real some where that it would have been s isomer that would have been used. Where as when the tiger escapes the zoo, they pump him with a tranq chock full O' racemic.

Never the less, i could be dead wrong. Much love dude.

Ketamine is still legally used for humans and it is generally the racemic variety.

wikipedia says that the S+ isomer is available as "Ketanest S."  I'm not sure if that's a human or vet brand name.

To the original question, the racemic (mixed isomer) lasts longer and you might perceive it as more fucked up/less clean than the S+.

Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: BYSD on May 15, 2013, 06:07 pm
"Difference between S+ and Racemic

In general, as a result of pharmaceutical tests, S+ ketamine is thought to take effect more quickly and is in the region of 2.5x stronger than R- ketamine. The effects of R- ketamine are expected to remain in the body longer than S+ however. For this reason, many people have reported that the effects of S+ are felt more in the mind than in the body. Many pharmaceutical study patients also found taking S+ to be a more pleasant experience - most likely because it was cleaner and didn't last as long. Many people also feel that S+ has more euphoric tendencies than R-. Racemic ketamine is a mix (usually 50/50) of S+ and R-. It is thought to act a little more like R- however as R- effects the way S+ reacts in the body.

One must remember that pharmaceutical studies are taken by people who most likely don't take the drug (or any drug) recreationally and take it in doses that are close to anesthesia. In smaller recreational doses, it is highly debatable that it is easy to detect a discernible difference between S+ and racemic. This is reflected in the contrasting opinions I hear from my customers. Many US customers request S+ because they think it to be more psychedelic (because it effects the head more) whereas many of my European customers request racemic for the exact same reason as they feel S+ too clean and is more suited to patients than recreational drug-takers. The fact S+ is beginning to replace racemic within the anesthetist profession because it is less traumatic for patients, is used by many to point out that racemic is more psychedelic. In short, I find that neither the medical nor drug-taking community can find much agreement on the two variants.

It must also be noted that 95% of the ketamine produced, and therefore sold on the black market, is racemic. Pure S+ is extremely rare (pure R- is never sold) and in most cases dealers that tell you they have it, are bullshitting you because they know it is in high demand. There is no easy way to test for S+ but the best way is to see if the crystals are positively charged. Pure S+ ketamine should clump together and also stick to anything it is placed on much like a positively charged balloon sticks to your hair. Since racemic is 50% S+ however, you will notice this with all ketamine you buy in crystalline form. The effect will just be far more pronounced with S+. S+ tends to be found in more rod-like, shardy crystals than R- too, but this is not a given."
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: slirp on May 15, 2013, 09:09 pm
I wouldn't say that S+ is extremely rare nowadays.  Most of the ketamine on SR was made in India for the recreational market.  Sure it is less common that racemic but at least on SR it hasn't been hard to find S+.

If you're buying redirected veterinarian vials of ketamine off the street then yes S+ is pretty rare although it does exist.
Title: Re: What kind of ketamine are we getting?
Post by: dirtybiscuitzz718 on May 16, 2013, 09:46 am
+1 BYSD 8)