Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: purplebirds1234 on April 10, 2013, 03:02 am

Title: MDMA purity discussion.
Post by: purplebirds1234 on April 10, 2013, 03:02 am
If MDMA in its purest form is white, why does Supertrips have some of the best MDMA on the road. Between Emonkey's acid washed MDMA, and Supertrips' tan MDMA I can not for the life of me understand how supertrips is equally as good if not better than Emonkey's.

In my understanding, tan MDMA is impurities and byproducts from a side reaction during synthesis. Acid washing removes these byproducts and leaves one with pure and white MDMA.
Is this true?

Or does color in fact not mean anything except a difference in the synthesis method?

Feel free to discuss  what you think the difference in tan and white MDMA is. If you are a real chemist please state so when posting your response because it could give your response a little more credibility than others. I have only taken 2 college chemistry courses so I know a little, but we do not learn to much about synthesis but I have a basic background.
My internet research comes up inconclusive, seems like a bunch of people with different answers all swear they know what they are talking about but they cannot all be right.

Also, supertrips, or any other MDMA synthesizer, could you offer some insight on why you think your MDMA is white, or your MDMA is tan.
Title: Re: MDMA purity discussion.
Post by: CrazyBart on April 10, 2013, 03:07 am
There are different ways to "make" MDMA. Color doesn't mean shit
Title: Re: MDMA purity discussion.
Post by: 2513415 on April 10, 2013, 05:05 am
I'd like to know myself as well. I've had mdma from many different vendors on here and Cloudsurfer and Underground syndicate has the best in my opinion.
Title: Re: MDMA purity discussion.
Post by: MySecretAccount on April 10, 2013, 08:30 am
I actually posted something about this as an observation in the MDMA Vendor thread, as I'm basically now the harm reduction guy and I have friends who are too afraid to use test kits/buy them, but who also will take US-made presses or capsules without knowing what's in it.

I've noticed that the color DOES have a trend on the Marquis Test's...secondary?....color? The white rocks, at least the good ones, tend to have a purple-ish hue when the test has settled. The tan usually has a slightly brown tint to it, although not always.

Here is what I found interesting, as I personally have taken Cloudsurfer's MDMA, eMonkey's MDMA, and have seen Haisenberg's and a few other "top vendors," and they all look quite a bit different.

I may be the only one who thought this, but the MDMA I received from Cloudsurfer a while ago (we're talking maybe 4-6 months ago) was in my opinion very weak, and I didn't like it much. I'm in the minority there, so; it is what it is.

eMonkey's crystals are literally what I imagine a near-perfect wash to produce, but the potency didn't blow me away. I'm not sure whose MDMA goes in the presses he sells, but - I've had some of those Defqon group/brand's (specifically THE Defqon pills...I miss those), and before that I tried a bit of each type (tan rock, Ivory/UK, Sand, etc). I figured that 

Now - here is what concerns me, as I think we all agree that there is a growing possible concern for massive MDMA consumption due to ease/price, especially in the wide-open, relatively rookie US market (or at least as of the last few years).

Two years ago Pokeballs ruled the West Coast, with about 90mg of MDMA and some Amp/Caffiene, and they were considered primo. Mints were (maybe are? never had any, don't follow them, and was always jealous). Now, with giant rocks of crystal MDMA getting better and better, AND cheaper and cheaper.

I tend to base my general guess of "what's out there' by looking at PillReports.com's North American section, and also EcstastyData, both of which show a concerning trend that's in addition to the existing "90% of shit sold in the wild is Pipes or Methylone."

More and more of the tests on EData show trace elements of what look like junk precursors, and some of the ratios they find are enough for me to wonder a bit. When good molly showed up on Edata 2 years ago, you'd see, MDMA, or maybe a 8:1 ratio of MDMA:precursor or MDMA:Benzoaine. Now - there are just tons of chemicals popping up in these results and the ratios are a lot more diverse than before.

I don't want to say for sure that it's anything more than possible just inactive stuff. This is a direct cross-post from the other thread, but - here's some front page stuff that includes a few very recognizable (by name or otherwise) SR favorites:


M80s - the closest the US has to the "DANCE/DEFQON" standard of quality...I think these used to be Pokeballs:

Methylsulfonylmethane

Woah, this is new and HAS to be a one off presser:

Caffeine
Methadone
MDMA
MDMA Methylene homolog
Benzocaine

4:1 ratio
1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol :: MDMA

MDMA
MDMA Methylene homolog
Methylsulfonylmethane
Cocaine


MDMA - 9
2,2,3,4-tetramethyl-5-(3,4-methylenedioxy)phenyloxazolidine - 6
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylbenzylamine - 2
Methylsulfonylmethane - 1

(Poplar Vendor's Capsules, Recognizable if you know who that vendor is:)
MDMA - 4
Methylsulfonylmethane - 1
Caffeine - 0.5


So, we have the following (using ratios as the general guideline), which I will Wiki soon enough, but...is this enough cause for concern?

(popular vendor's red/grey capsules)
Methylsulfonylmethane - 20%

(same vendor, different batch, or at least it seems)
Methylsulfonylmethane - 33%


(Unknown MDMA Source, from California) - MDMA 50%, and the other 50%:

2,2,3,4-tetramethyl-5-(3,4-methylenedioxy)phenyloxazolidine
3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylbenzylamine
Methylsulfonylmethane

(Same as last Capsule, but white and not tan);

MDMA Methylene homolog - 35%
Methylsulfonylmethane - 10%
Cocaine - trace (never get this one)

(Brown Crystals from New York):

1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol - 80%
MDMA - 20%

AND THE WINNER OF THE "WHY PRESS THIS?" (Blue Circle press, Madison, WI)

Caffeine - ~50%
Methadone - ~25%
MDMA - 12.5%
MDMA Methylene homolog - 12.5%
Benzocaine - trace


These counts may be off by 1-2 each, but - the front page of Edata has this frightening count

Pills sold as E - Good (MDMA, or mostly MDMA + light caffeine type stuff - 43
Pills sold as E - Bad (no MDMA at all, or trace MDMA with 80-90% other stuff - 34

Good E Pills that were non-US based - 20 (I think, I might have skipped a few)

If we take this site as  general sample set (it's skewed heavy on MDMA Good, imho) - pills in the US that are MDMA, or MDMA+Caffeine  are maybe 1/3, 1/4? I'm too lazy to redo the mtch, but - that's scary, since I'd also wager that the # of rolls, and now ESPECIALLY caps that go through the hands of the non-tech savvy, it's a frightening thought.

What the fuck are all these chemicals, and what do they do? I'm sure I had too much MDMA in general, and on top of that, now I'm reading that I likely took some of this other stuff over the last year or so....with Coachella coming up (and tons of naive people buying from people hustling Methylone and other bunk beans, or cap), I feel like I don't know enough to REALLY help them or tell them about what all the other chemicals do.

But...is all this European MDMA introducing some of this stuff to the states? Any thoughts on why we're seeing more "other" stuff than before?

TL;DR - US has a frighteningly high list of  bunk pills and the use of them is much higher in the "offline" world, at least from what I know. Somebody ate all those cutouts a few years ago - that's a scary thought.
Title: Re: MDMA purity discussion.
Post by: Dingo Ate My Drugs on April 10, 2013, 09:16 am
If MDMA in its purest form is white, why does Supertrips have some of the best MDMA on the road. Between Emonkey's acid washed MDMA, and Supertrips' tan MDMA I can not for the life of me understand how supertrips is equally as good if not better than Emonkey's.

In my understanding, tan MDMA is impurities and byproducts from a side reaction during synthesis. Acid washing removes these byproducts and leaves one with pure and white MDMA.
Is this true?

Or does color in fact not mean anything except a difference in the synthesis method?

Feel free to discuss  what you think the difference in tan and white MDMA is. If you are a real chemist please state so when posting your response because it could give your response a little more credibility than others. I have only taken 2 college chemistry courses so I know a little, but we do not learn to much about synthesis but I have a basic background.
My internet research comes up inconclusive, seems like a bunch of people with different answers all swear they know what they are talking about but they cannot all be right.

Also, supertrips, or any other MDMA synthesizer, could you offer some insight on why you think your MDMA is white, or your MDMA is tan.
I've never produced MDMA, but I've done a fair bit of research and from what I've read, the colour has nothing to do with the purity of the MDMA.
The colour is only there because there are trace amounts of impurities remaining. Simply put, very high MDMA that is brown just means it hasn't been washed to remove the trace amounts of chemicals that give it the colour. White MDMA may be very marginally stronger because the impurities are washed away. But the difference will be so small you'd never notice.

So colour doesn't mean anything except if it's been washed or not.
Title: Re: MDMA purity discussion.
Post by: cantharidin on April 10, 2013, 05:34 pm
It's true that color can be misleading when looking at purity. Very tiny amounts of highly colored impurities can make a fairly pure sample colored while large amount of white impurities (lots of inorganic salts fall in this category) can give a shit product that looks good.

Two best ways of assessing purity are melting point and physical state. 

Melting point requires at least a crude specialized apparatus, but it's hard to beat. The true melting point of MDMA-HCl is about 150 deg. C, and a pure sample melts at a very defined temp (quick and sharp melting). A shit sample will start melting much lower and over a very broad range.

If the chemist cares about the final product quality, they will recrystallize (from ethanol/ether or, my favorite, acetonitrile). Doing this can give beautiful clear/white needles. If you get MDMA as white needles, then you've got something.