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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: Atticus on February 05, 2012, 11:10 pm

Title: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Atticus on February 05, 2012, 11:10 pm
Hello, first of all let me explain the circumstances upon which I’ll have a few questions.

Me and a few friends will be traveling to an old friends house who moved away a while ago to visit him for a few days. We are planning to take LSD one night in the house and Ecstasy another night, both of which I’ve already bought from Silk Road. Personally I have a few previous experiences with each drug but it has all been street-bought stuff so nothing like the potency of the stuff I have now (and only ever MDMA in powder (yeah, not crystals, that fucking white powder with about 20% MDMA in it)). A couple of my friends have had previous experiences too and some no previous experiences with either. But in general we’re all pretty new to these drugs.

For the acid we’re all going to take a 150ug blotter each (some say this is stupid if you’re new/fairly new to the drug but we’ll be in a good set and setting so I reckon it’ll be fine.) We’ll be dosing the acid around 4pm, we’ll play some music and just see where it takes us. The ecstasy pills have around 150mg of MDMA in them (again I think we’ll be fine.) We were going to go to a club with the ecstasy but have decided, due to the traveling this would involve, to just have our own party with some loud music and a few girls in the house.

I bought more acid and E than we’ll need and I want to keep some of both drug for later so I’m going to leave them at home as I know it won’t end well if I bring them (someone will buy them off me when I’m high or I’ll just fuck it and eat about 6 blotters or something.) In my house I currently have the acid stored in a plastic baggie inside a card hidden in a DVD box. For storage I don’t have access to the fridge/freezer in case it was found by others. This brings me on to my questions.

1.)   For traveling (not international or on a plane, the only way I’ll be searched would be a random stop on the street), how should I store the acid to ensure it retains maximum potency? (I assume ecstasy pills will just be fine inside a baggie and hidden.)
2.)   For the LSD I’m storing at home, what way would this be able to be stored over a period of possibly up to a month or two while retaining maximum potency too?
3.)   While on the ecstasy pills we will be dancing for some of the time but probably not as much as at a club on E, what would be the recommended amount of water for us to drink per hour to ensure we don’t drink too much/little?
4.)   I have heard that sports drinks and salty snacks are good while on ecstasy, is this true?
5.)   Is it recommended to eat/drink anything while on acid? I hear chewing gum is a good idea.
6.)   For both LSD and Ecstasy – how much should we eat before and what types of foods/specific easily obtained foods are recommended for either?

Thanks a lot for your help everyone, and sorry for the noobish questions - I've done some more obscure drugs like LSA a bit but never had access to good molly and lucy 'till SR came into my life.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: v01d on February 05, 2012, 11:27 pm
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For traveling (not international or on a plane, the only way I’ll be searched would be a random stop on the street), how should I store the acid to ensure it retains maximum potency? (I assume ecstasy pills will just be fine inside a baggie and hidden.)
Wrap it in foil, stick in the pages of a book. Tuck the book away somewhere cool.

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For the LSD I’m storing at home, what way would this be able to be stored over a period of possibly up to a month or two while retaining maximum potency too?
Same as above. If you are really paranoid wrap them in foil, put them in an airtight jar with some anti-moisture packets, and stick that in the freezer.

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While on the ecstasy pills we will be dancing for some of the time but probably not as much as at a club on E, what would be the recommended amount of water for us to drink per hour to ensure we don’t drink too much/little?
Just drink when you are thirsty. Don't over complicate it. Maybe a bottle every 1-2 hours. Try sports drinks or pedialite though. Both will hydrate you better.

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I have heard that sports drinks and salty snacks are good while on ecstasy, is this true?
Sports drinks, yes. I can't say anything about the salty snacks because I lose all appetite and food is actually disgusting to me. If your pills are good, you will be the same way more than likely.

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Is it recommended to eat/drink anything while on acid? I hear chewing gum is a good idea.
If you get hungry, go for it. Fruits are great on acid. Smoothies too. Chewing gum is a good idea if you get bruxism.

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For both LSD and Ecstasy – how much should we eat before and what types of foods/specific easily obtained foods are recommended for either?
Don't eat for ~4ish hours before you drop the MDMA. You probably won't want to eat while rolling either.
Same for acid. But if you do want to eat on acid, see the above. Fruits, or anything really.

Random tips:
Acid isnt quite as fragile as you'd imagine. Only worry about long term exposure.
Take magnesium before you roll. It will minimize the bruxism (jaw clenching).
Gum, gum, and more gum. Essential for drug use.
Get 5-HTP and vitamin b6 for the MDMA comedown, and the next few days. Helps to replenish seratonin.
If you want an amazing MDMA experience grab piracetam. It potentiates MDMA.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Atticus on February 06, 2012, 12:05 am
Thanks a lot for your help v01d! :) I looked a bit more into the 5-HTP and Magnesium too and they do seem like good ideas.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: obama on February 06, 2012, 01:09 am
I had LSD blotters stored in my closet drawer in an open vac seal bag for 6 months and they were still as potent as the first day I got them.

For MDMA, I recommend taking 500 mg L-tryptophan right after the comedown (its one step before 5-HTP into the conversion to serotonin).  I wake up with feeling good after a night of rolling with no headache and grogginess compared to without the tryptophan.  I usually take one 500 mg capsule every night a few days before I plan to roll but idk if that helps.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: 328502E on February 06, 2012, 04:15 am
Salty snacks probably aren't a good idea.  The MDMA is a salt anyway, so between that and the sports drinks you'll have plenty in your system.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: jpisbetterthanme on February 06, 2012, 07:34 am
First off I need to say this: how do you know it's 150ug of lucy? Did you buy it from someone on SR saying it was 150ug? Which someone? I have done a stupid amount of cid in my lifetime and I have sold/been around/whatever much much much more... The only only ONLY time I've ever seen anywhere *near* an accurate dosage of lucy was from a very close friend of mine who manufactured it in a lab for a living and put it on sheets to sell to his very close friends. Dosed carefully, however that is done. He said that those bibles (10 sheets) were just for us close friends and that the street shit isn't anywhere NEAR as potent, even though it's sold as such.

I thought he was bullshitting me or exaggerating or something - by that time I was able to eat a ten-strip and be still in my head. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and bought five, each supposedly ~220-250ug and started by dosing with just one, in case he was right....... Yeah, that one hit was probably 250. Maybe more. Stronger than tenstrips I've had.

I've bought lucy off SR before a few times and for the most part I believe the stated doses are bullshit, just like they are in buying it f2f (sorry vendors). It's fine, I understand it, it's the same as people calling their weed stupid fucking names - it's made up bullshit that is just for marketing purposes. The general rule of thumb I follow? Whatever the person says, cut it in half. It's not that much.

In other words, that "150ug" tab? I'd guess 50ug.

This is just a generality, though, and that's a thing that SUCKS about cid. I don't think you can put a price on an LSD trip... so I have no problem paying 150 bucks to buy fucking 10 of some vendor's "200ug" hits @ 15 a pop to trip. Those people are salesmen, not chemists. Whatever. You get to know the people you're buying off and learn to gauge appropriately - you don't have the benefit of being able to look at a hit and tell how strong it is, like you would with weed or something.

And even if it is 150ug, it wouldn't make me trip. I would feel like I smoked a joint. That may be from doing so much of that shit in my time but I have always had a crazy tolerance... And it's got nothing to do with my height/weight/gender/whatever.

Here's one of the very very very few thoughts I have that I 100% believe that I know sounds like total fucking bullshit: LSD is magic. I call it Lucy because I really do believe it is an Entity. Some kind of Thing. I even know what it looks like - the All-Seeing Eye ! :) ..... It finds you when you are supposed to take it. If you force it at the wrong time, you'll just kinda get a little high or whatever. You'll feel good and whatnot but .. not a real lsd trip.

When you are supposed to have a real LSD trip, Lucy will fucking HUNT YOU DOWN and she will essentially force herself on you. I've seen this happen over and over and over and over and over and . .. (etc) ... Whenever Lucy shows up in town and I have friends who can't partake because they don't have the money or they are out of town or whatever, it always works out where they end up getting a free trip somehow or they end up back in town by some crazy extraneous bullshit .... If you're supposed to trip, you're going to trip. It doesn't matter if you take one hit of 20000000000g or if you take one hit of 0.00001ug. The dose is insignificant. 1ug is SUCH a small amount... I firmly believe it's not the drug, the set, or the setting that leads to a trip.



Those are my caveats. I feel like throwing those out there for you because it sounds like there are people involved that really have no clue about this shit. . . . . . And I have seen many many many people get their whole world improved because of an acid trip, but I've also seen a few people fall by the wayside, even on very small amounts after taking it many times before. And some first timers freak the fuck out too. HAVE A SITTER.


My caveats on MDMA: I will put ANY OTHER CHEMICAL into my body. One dose changes your brain structurally. I'm not cool with that. I've had guns and knives pulled on me from people experiencing Seratonin Syndrome because of a roll - sometimes the first one they've taken. Don't know what that is? GO LOOK IT UP. It's important. I'm not the douchebag that says "duhhhh dont do drruuuggs" and I fucking hate when people say shit like that but ...... Literally *any* other chemical.

And I think if you MUST do them back-to-back, it's a bad idea to do them in that order (i.e., do the MDMA the first night, lucy the second).... I seriously would advise you against doing these chemicals separately two days in a row anyway. Candyflipping is fun, I hear, but .... No.

You gotta realize, the first time people roll, it can be a crazy experience that changes their lives forever .......... But the first time people trip? That's it. They walk through a door. They *will* be changed forever. With MDMA it's like "I remember when I was rolling and I thought that blahblahblah" - with acid, those thoughts are just as real later. This shit can be really really really really hard for some people to integrate after the fact - I have seen the Bad Trip start after the "drug"  "wears off" ..... It's not pretty.


In all honesty I'd say fuck the MDMA; take the cid but make sure there's a sittter .........

But whatever you and your buddies are gonna do what you want regardless of what I say.....


To answer your list of questions, the same basic storage techniques are true for just about every drug there is: cool, dark, dry place. As cool, dark and dry as you can get. With storing cid, if it's wrapped in foil and stuck in a book or a drawer, it'll keep as long as your body will.

How much you should take of one or the other is hard to gauge because you are taking two drugs that are notoriously sold by people who don't really have any clue what the fuck is in them. With lucy, if it's from an unknown source I take one hit and wait until I'm feeling it, then I wait about half as long as it took to kick in and take another one if I want to. With X, you are taking a risk if you take ANY amount. If it's a pill, take the pill. I've done X a few times (15-20) and I've obviously known lots of people who have done it and I cant think of a single situation where someone had bad effects from taking an X tablet that would've been avoided if they only took half. Ditto people who took two or three or four or whatever ....... Up to a point, of course. People who do retarded shit like taking 15 of them are knowingly taking a HUUUUUUUUUGE risk.

.... But again, I need to point this out because I can't ignore it in good conscience (which is the whole reason I'm msging you to begin with)  :  it sounds like there are people involved who don't know anything about mdma either.

Feeding people one chemical some of them don't know anything about is a horrible idea; feeding them another chemical they know nothing about the next day is almost a definite recipe for disaster.  The more people you add, the more likely it gets that something bad will happen. Remember that if you got the stuff off SR and you did your due diligence, you're probably dealing with shit that is way more potent than what even the knowledgeable people are used to... I would say that if there are more than five of you, the odds of something bad happening is virtually 100% ......

I'm not saying someone will overdose or some shit.... I've heard of that but never happened to anyone I know. However, I do know several people (I'd guess roughly 20% off the top of my head) who are allergic to X or something ... And that is horrible. They don't end up in the hospital but they end up having the exactly opposite experience that X is supposed to cause, feeling exactly as bad as you feel good. For hours and hours. Puke puke puke, etc etc etc. It sucks for them and for everyone around them.

I didn't know that could happen so I point it out here. The other bad things that could happen, you already know about those ... A lot of people who get involved in drugs and want to take LSD are depressed, and if you go into an acid trip depressed you could very easily have a bad trip. That's a serious threat. I've seen people have glowing life changing experiences on LSD, sure, but I've seen way more people have good trips that are just fun and cool and whatever..

However - and this is important - a full 100% of the people I've seen have a bad trip (on LSD or anything else) have been permanently changed for the worse. This varies in degree but it's a truism.



To sum all this up, let me reiterate that it fucking pisses me off when people are just like "duh, don't do drugs" ..... That's useless. The implication is that drugs are risky - unless you're a complete fucking moron (you're not if you're reading this), you already know there are risks. I tried to point out shit that you may not know about here (it's stuff I didn't know about until I saw it) to give you a heads up.... But the overarching theme is that I think this is a terrible idea. YOU do whatever the fuck you want - take twelve hundred kg of mdma and eat an entire bible of LSD, whatever, that's you're choice, you can make decisions for yourself.

HOWEVER......... I believe you may be putting others in danger without their really knowing so, and that I cannot abide quietly. Is there anyone in the group who has never done either drug? ......... If so, this is a terrible idea and a criminal act in the drug world; like Bob Dylan says, to live outside the law you must be honest. That isn't honest. It's almost sadistic. I cannot imagine what it would've been like if I took LSD and MDMA for the first time within two days. But when I try, no matter what scenario I imagine it's bad. At the very minimum, if both experiences go really really well, they will cancel each other out and you won't learn anything. As far as I'm concerned, Ecstasy doesn't teach you anything (or the retarded shit it teaches you like "duh every problem in the world could just be solved with huuugggs" disappears after a few days), but LSD nearly always does. You spoil it by adding anything.


Think about your ancestors or something. If there were LSD several centuries ago, it would've been a big fucking deal .... People would like.. Fast for it... Pray around it.... Etc. It would be a rite of passage.

It's no different now. If you take lucy lightly she will fucking kick the shit out of you. Acid is the only drug I know of that I'd say truly demands respect. . . . You *should* respect all drugs, but Lucy is the only one I know that will beat your ass if you are flippant...


Don't be.


Be smart here. And safe. Take it from someone who knows what he's talking about - this is a bad idea. I'd be the last person to tell you don't ever do LSD or MDMA ever ever ever and nobody ever should ever ever ever, but I will say with that level of strength that you NEED TO wait several days in between.

Even if you can handle it, not everyone can. I think I could and I can think of three or four other people I think could handle it (remember I'm not talking about just HORRIBLE THINGS like overdosing and dying or having a horrible bad trip - I'm including a waste of one or both experiences here), and all those people (and me) have done this shit lots of times.

Think of a drug experience as a pie chart ....... The first time you do it, a HUGE CHUNK of that pie is consumed by your not knowing what it's going to do to you. That's fine if someone's never smoked pot or drank a beer before and you do that in one weekend, whatever, I encourage it. But MDMA and LSD are two of the most serious drugs there are. Note I say "serious" not "hard"...... Traditional "hard" drugs like coke and her'ron don't really change your entire paradigm. LSD will. If I remember correctly you said you have only had LSA before? ...... So you've eaten Morning Glory seeds? LSD is absolutely NOTHING like that. Shit will blow your mind.


As a closing note...... I'd say go research this shit for yourself but it took me several years and a degree to learn all bout it, but to keep it brief, MDMA and LSD over two days - regardless of the order - is a terrible idea because of what neurotransmitters get depleted/rearranged/inhibited/etc...... It's a complicated interplay because both drugs cause a complicated set of reactions on their own, and they last a long time. Again, regardless of the order you do them in, you are still going to have effects from one drug on the day after. Biochemical effects. Big ones. You may very well not feel it but it will still be there - the changes are the reason the drugs are so intense.

The particulars of these two drugs make it so that taking one one day and the other the next is a bad idea for several reasons, but I won't even bother to go further into it because..... Does it matter? Even if it's just a wasted experience, why bother ?

If you and your buddies had lots of experience with both drugs, I would say you'd be better off candyflipping (taking both at the same time), but I wouldn't suggest that to you unless you and EVERY ONE of the people you were with had extensive experience with both drugs. In case you couldn't tell, I've done both many times but even I have never felt ready to do them together - they are THAT powerful.

DON'T DO IT! Wrap Lucy in foil and keep her in a book or a drawer or something and eat her the next weekend. You will have a better experience from both drugs if you do that. You've got all the time in the world.





Please, if anyone else agrees with me on this, f'king post and say so. I've seen this sort of thing happen before and it always goes bad.

Don't put other people in danger because of ignorance.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Aliahad on February 06, 2012, 09:48 pm
I've heard that aluminum foil hurts your Lucy. Could be a rumor, but why risk it? I keep mine in a small baggy to protect from air, wrap that in foil to protect from light, and keep it in a book in my closet.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: v01d on February 07, 2012, 01:06 am
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My caveats on MDMA: I will put ANY OTHER CHEMICAL into my body. One dose changes your brain structurally. I'm not cool with that. I've had guns and knives pulled on me from people experiencing Seratonin Syndrome because of a roll - sometimes the first one they've taken. Don't know what that is? GO LOOK IT UP. It's important. I'm not the douchebag that says "duhhhh dont do drruuuggs" and I fucking hate when people say shit like that but ...... Literally *any* other chemical.
One dose of MDMA changes your brain structure? No. Just no. Unless you have sources for that that aren't the old "one pill of MDMA can lead to parkinsons" or "MDMA puts holes in your brain" (which both have been proven FALSE.) you can stop right there. Seratonin syndrome is INCREDIBLY rare and only really occurs in people mixing other drugs and MDMA such as DXM. And even then they wouldn't be pulling knives or guns on anyone, they would be too crippled to do so. I think you are thinking of someone who maybe got slipped a piperazine.

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However - and this is important - a full 100% of the people I've seen have a bad trip (on LSD or anything else) have been permanently changed for the worse. This varies in degree but it's a truism.
Once again, no. Bad trips can be more enlightening and better for you than the best trip. In fact a close friend of mine went through HELL on 3 tabs recently and a week later he is a changed man. He is more respectful, trying harder at work, trying harder with studies, and overall just better off.

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However, I do know several people (I'd guess roughly 20% off the top of my head) who are allergic to X or something ... And that is horrible. They don't end up in the hospital but they end up having the exactly opposite experience that X is supposed to cause, feeling exactly as bad as you feel good. For hours and hours. Puke puke puke, etc etc etc. It sucks for them and for everyone around them.
Once again, looks like you are looking at piperazine or some other substance that ISN'T MDMA. I can assure you the allergic reaction to MDMA isn't a rate of 20%.

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HOWEVER......... I believe you may be putting others in danger without their really knowing so, and that I cannot abide quietly. Is there anyone in the group who has never done either drug? ......... If so, this is a terrible idea and a criminal act in the drug world; like Bob Dylan says, to live outside the law you must be honest. That isn't honest. It's almost sadistic. I cannot imagine what it would've been like if I took LSD and MDMA for the first time within two days. But when I try, no matter what scenario I imagine it's bad. At the very minimum, if both experiences go really really well, they will cancel each other out and you won't learn anything. As far as I'm concerned, Ecstasy doesn't teach you anything (or the retarded shit it teaches you like "duh every problem in the world could just be solved with huuugggs" disappears after a few days), but LSD nearly always does. You spoil it by adding anything.
So you'd prefer his friends try MDMA and LSD on their own? Risk getting PMA pills and DYING? Rish getting DOx and tripping balls for 12+ hours?
If his friends want to do it, they are allowed to. Stop making assumptions about them not knowing what they are doing.
Also, Everything after that is opinion. I find MDMA to be a problem solver closer to the primal part of humans, and LSD as a more expansion.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: aciddeath on February 07, 2012, 01:52 am
jps advice is very solid. Having used pure MDMA once, pills a few times, and LSD many times I did not find a point which would require extreme rebuttal. He is issuing a first time drug user of both drugs to use caution.

These two substances are extraordinarily powerful and life changing. Pure MDMA was the first drug (other than marijuana and alcohol) that I consumed and my entire perspective was mutilated and reassembled (for the better!). One of my favorite parts was the afterglow and being able to mentally recall the absurdly elevated positivity. One of my least favorite parts was crashing for a week straight (sadness, alone, emptiness, confusion) and the cognitive impairment (slightly harder to concentrate, give a shit). Another negative aspect was the feeling of "oh! if I could only have a little more MDMA I could get rid of this feeling!". In hindsight I would probably attribute these negative effects to the psychedelic amphetamine and my inexperience with drugs in general.

I was recently thinking about taking both drugs in a weekend
some very experienced folks would do it together (I considered it). Outside of being very unsafe psychologically, I feel it is a waste (using one after another in weekend). Especially if the mdma is taken first (LSD without serotonin would be a bum out).

Chose one to take and remember, you can always take more you can never take less!!


One piece of advice I would certainly follow is to sit down with whoever is to consume the drug and try to set the atmosphere. Talking is important. So is being in an environment where if someone feels like expressing intense emotions and speech they can. Everyone will be spinning off into their respective 'zones' so it's good to have a real world object of your own to remind you that you will be coming back to reality in time. I used to write "You are tripping" on the back pages of my notepad when I first started tripping...just in case. It would be comforting to look at.

I find having something to 'play' with is critical to the psychedelic experience. Having a notebook and pen is always 100% required for me, and sometimes an instrument, flashing toy, ball or audio recorder is very engaging. Going outside with torches (or flashlights if youre in an area that can catch on fire) is very fun. Don't be afraid to form attachments to inanimate objects. Every time I am tripping I am always wearing funny clothes or mostly red.. don't know why.

good luck, don't panic! (and have some light benzos handy for a friend that does)
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: jpisbetterthanme on February 07, 2012, 03:02 am
@Aliahad (and OP, really)
This :
http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=82

Although to be honest I don't agree that you should keep it in the freezer but only because freezer burn is a true possibility and it will kill your cid.





@Void
Phew! You kinda tore me a new one there.

I'll just go in order:)

1 -  MDMA changing brain structure : I was afraid someone was gonna ask me for a source on this . . . My source is a couple textbooks I have from a couple classes I took with one of the foremost researchers in the field of set and setting. He's one of the pioneers of the studies where they get a bunch of students and tell them they are drinking beer and watch them get "drunk" off O'Douls or someshit. I wish I could link to him but that would be identifying information to me and that would be a bad thing...

But I may as well just say "muh butt's muh source" with that collection of associations you have no way of verifying...

So I was going to go find the other sources I have consulted about this but they're all journal articles and reports on university's web pages and (probably biased) government publications, etc. etc. etc. ..... But then I decided why bother? I could send you a list of a bazillion sources, but why don't you go google "mdma change brain structure" and do it yourself...? It's on Erowid's site too somewhere; that was where I first came across it, because I didn't believe it either.



2-  Seratonin syndrome - Kay, I'm not going to even bother arguing with you about this one:) ... Seratonin syndrome is not as rare as you think and I have no way of proving to you that people have pulled weapons on me before. Even if full-blown seratonin syndrome WERE rare, the after-effects of MDMA include .... Uh, misery, basically:) ... Again I could source this claim a million different ways but if you think about it, you can figure that to be the case by yourself... If not, go read something.

Either way, re: 1 and 2, please. . . do some research before you accuse me of not doing mine, kay? I know what I'm talking about.



Kay now I'll play nice :)



3- Bad trips: Your friend who went through hell is changed because he was traumatized and now he's terrified. He was in HELL! That is not at all worth the tradeoff to me. If you were given a drug and foreknowledge that it was going to give you a bad trip, would you take it? If you say yes you are either lying or not very bright: it's called a "bad" trip for a reason. If you'd like I can modify my statement and say 90% of the people I've seen have a bad trip experienced it as something bad, but then I'd just be stating a tautology, except being too much of a wuss to go 100% with it. In other words, I'd be consciously giving info I believe to be false. Bad trips are bad. All of them. Otherwise they aren't bad trips. Have you ever seen anybody end up in the psych ward? I have. Lots of people actually, probably half a dozen or so in my lifetime, and most of them were first time users. All of them were inexperienced users...

Wtf I'm not going to try to convince someone a bad trip is bad:)

And is your friend really better off? If you got the shit kicked out of you by a mugger, you would change your behavior afterwards, and it may be for the better to an outside observer but .. You'd be traumatized. A woman who gets date raped will start keeping a closer eye on her drinks, and that is a good habit to get into... But don't you think she'd give just about anything to just avoid the rape in the first place?

...This is ridiculous and we can go back and forth on it all night, but I think this misunderstanding may be the result of ambiguity on my part. My implication there was that there's a huge potential problem with first time users of either LSD or MDMA in that it could overwhelm them, and if you mix both of them together, it WILL overwhelm them - that's the whole point. An experienced user would be overwhelmed too, but they would have built up tools to handle it. Without those tools, you are fucked.



4- Allergic reactions: You're right on this one I didn't really know about what was going on there and frankly it baffled me. I'm not even sure that it's just another drug that caused those problems - I thought about it a little more and I'm pretty sure all those people took rolls. I only know a handful of people who have taken non-bogus MDMA powder and they were all really experienced by that point. None of them got sick. And I'm only talking about a sample size of maybe 10 people tops.

Other people (the ones I was talking about in the post) take rolls and get sick and miserable. That is horrible. I didn't know that was a possibility and every one of them said it was like they were allergic to it. Yeah it could be caused by something else but ... Neither of us know. So this is moot. Point is I was speweing out info because it sounded like OP wasn't taking MDMA or LSD seriously enough . . .



5- Taking shit on their own and dying: where did you get that from? I'm thinking maybe I said take the substances alone and the ambiguous use of the word "alone" led you to believe I meant "with no other people around" rather than "separately," which would've been a better word choice.

Taking MDMA alone would be awful, I think! If you want to talk and hug people and you're alone, I imagine you'd just be jumping out of your skin:)



6- Assumptions about them not knowing what they're doing: ... Assumption? Okay I don't know that they don't know what they're doing because I am not them but the existence of the post alone implies some lack of knowledge, but OP directly says "nothing like the potency of the stuff I have now" when talking about himself and some of his friends "had previous experiences too and some no previous experiences with either. But in general we're all pretty new to these drugs." ... That's not my assumption, that's his statement.

Remember that in the drug world saying someone doesn't know what they are doing is not at all a bad thing. You mentioned piperazine - I'll readily admit that if you gave me a bunch of piperazine I'd have no idea wtf to do with it. I'd have to look it up and/or ask around.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. So what - we all had a first time too, y'know?



7- "If his friends want to do it, they are allowed to" : If his friends want to hang themselves they are allowed to as well. I'm not forbidding them. OP basically said that he didn't really know what he was doing and I responded to give him information. My suggestion is opinion, yes, but it's an informed opinion that I took the time to build up in one billion words .... I wanted to fill in the blanks for him - isn't that what this forum is for? Of course I'm going to state my opinion, but it's obvious to you that it's opinion, so it'll be obvious to OP - I wasn't trying to state my opinions as facts. You stated your opinion too, saying MDMA is a problem solver closer to the primal part of humanity/LSD is expansion... Total opinion. I've got formal education in this stuff, and a shitload of experience. I was sharing what I knew. I am not apologetic for that, and shame on you for sounding so accusatory =P



BTW you didn't even answer OP's question, you just attacked me... Do you honestly think it's a good idea to feed a cocktail of MDMA+LSD to a bunch of people who have no experience in either..? That sounds like a good idea to you..?





@ aciddeath (who posted while I was writing this - yay to the SR forum warning me there was a new post:))  :


Thank you! :D

I'd like to point out the "crashing for a week straight" part of your post .... That's what I was getting at above. I've had that experience every time I've taken X (@void preemptively: I am not saying that is 100% true for 100% of people 100% of the time but it is for me! ;) ) and I *DEFINITELY* would not want to take LSD in that state of mind. I barely want to get out of bed in that state of mind.

Re: it'd be a waste using one after another ... +1.


Re: have a notepad  + 1 -  I'd even say regardless of what you do, OP, go get a sketchbook for the weekend. Doing either of those drugs alone, taking them together, taking them separately over the two day period .... all of these would be enhanced. Tell your friends too. Don't let them tell you they can't draw - it doesn't matter.


Re: "you are tripping" on the notepad : LOLOLOLOL !! Other people do that?! I do that every time - people think I'm loony. Until they see it while they're tripping and they're like "Ohhhh... now I get it."

If the experience is new or it's going to be intense (ie, "hm it's ... like ... Friday - I BETTER EAT A TEN STRIP NOW!!!!") I will also duct tape a post it note saying that to my door.... SO I don't wander off. I can't tell you how many problems that has prevented... I learned to do that after me and some friends experienced a true shared delusion and ended up wandering off in the woods chasing a space shuttle for hours and hours and hours...... Ridiculous.






As an added post script (@void preemptively: THIS IS MY OPINION;)), I recognize that my experience here is obviously VERY MUCH tainted by my opinion - I am not an Ecstasy person. I find that even after the physical down feeling disappears in a week or so, I sometimes start to feel even MORE miserable when I realized all that empathy and feeling close to people and stuff is bullshit... I took it more times hoping that I would pick that up as some kind of permanent paradigm but... Nope. It just gets further every time. Fuck that. PLUR is horseshit. You can't spend your whole life hugging everyone and wearing glow in the dark wristbands and stuff - you will just look like a lunatic. And the sad part is that nobody will tell you, not even your closest friends. I know a handful of people like that and they're the kind of people who leave the room and everyone says "what. . . the . . . FUCK . . . is their deal!?" and the answer is always "s/he took too much Ecstasy back in the day."

It's always "back in the day," too, in my world because eventually people who have taken a lot of Ecstasy just fall off the radar . . . Ravers are annoying to be around: they nearly try to push PLUR on you, not realizing how crazy they sound or how ironic it is to try to force that on someone.

LSD ? None of the above is true. The stuff I learn on LSD sticks with me. It's real learning. It's not just some really strong chemically induced feeling that disappears after the drugs wear off. And unless you are totally unreasonable or you get really unlucky or something, you're still gonna be fine being in The World if you've done LSD a few times... When I'm put in situations like this one (the SR forum, that is), I tend to let it all hang out and people either think I'm a fucking dangerous lunatic high on Whatever-It-Is-I'll-Take-Two, or they realize that I'm not at all serious when they think that sort of thing. I do attribute a lot of that barely-latent madness to psychedelic sandwiches but way more to DXM than to LSD; I've not been fully back to earth since I went to the fourth plateau about ten years ago......

And the thing is, my friends all know this just as well as I do. My closest friends and other people I'm comfortable around will even tell me outright if I'm talking like I'm on LSD or something. Doesn't happen often but it happens. People who have taken LSD don't tend to fall off the radar as much as ravers and other people who take MDMA.


Now, yes, that is all EXTREEMMMMMEE EDITORIALIZING! . . . .But what I'm getting at is that both chemicals have their place. What kind of weekend are you trying to have? What kind of friends are these? If it's a bunch of couples, you will have a blast on MDMA (or LSD but still).....But like... If it was me and a bunch of other dudes, there's no way I'd take MDMA. I've come to a conclusion (OPINION!!!!!) that MDMA is good for one thing: sex. It makes sex/cuddling/whatever kind of affection feel incredible. Look at someone who is blowing up - they look like they are having an orgasm. That's because of the oxytocin in their brain; they effectively ARE having an orgasm... Hence "ecstasy," get it?

I did MDMA with a bunch of other dudes only one time and we all agreed it was a terrible idea... We all ended up wandering off to our respective girlfriends (none of whom were there with us)...

I've also done MDMA with several different girls, two of whom I was with for many years before doing it ..... blahblahblah . . . . AND IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME, THAT'S HOW IT WAS!!!!!


Acid though? Fuck yeah, me and my guy friends will take as much LSD as you'll give us any time you'll give it to us. In fact, a little whlie after me and that group of dudes took a bunch of MDMA together, we split up a sheet between the six of us. Because we had a sheet. AND IT WAS FUCKING AWESOME, THAT'S HOW IT WAS!!!!

"This is a sausage fest and it's bumming me out" - never a thought on LSD.


Bottom line: taking X and not getting laid during/after is shit. If that's how it's gonna go down, save your MDMA for when you're with a girl/guy/anonymous stranger in a blue cartoon fox suit. Shit, I don't know what you're in to - we just met!

......
.........
.............
Actually, if you're in to fucking/getting fucked by an anonymous stranger in a blue cartoon fox suit, save the acid for that shit too lol



SO...... That.




Oh and @aciddeath again, "Don't panic" +5. . . .
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: jpisbetterthanme on February 07, 2012, 03:03 am
..... Also LOL @ me for writing five thousand pages in my first post, then five thousand pages in my second post, and answering OP's actual questions with just one link to Erowid in the first three lines of the second post.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: v01d on February 07, 2012, 05:14 am
I still don't quite believe you on the dose of MDMA changing your brain structure. At the very least there has been a study showing MDMA doesn't cause cognitive damage. And the comedown can be helped with b6, 5-HTP, piracetam, and vitamin C pre/postloads.

And I have been doing my research. MDMA is my go to drug and I have been keeping on the research for the last 10 years.

On to my friend. He isnt traumatized and actually he is quite unafraid anymore. Without going into specifics he had been repressing some BAD stuff that 3 hits of decent lucy made him face. He came out of it better off and happier even though the actual trip was bad.

I feel like your warning is valid now that I mull it over. Taking LSD AFTER a night of MDMA would be a bit much. If anything, take the LSD the first night. If all goes well popping the MDMA the next day isnt a problem. I don't forsee a problem with the MDMA, the worst I have seen on upper purity MDMA is vomiting on the comeup and slight anxiety on the comeup.

Certainly OP should give these substances the respect they deserve.

Also, your posts have got to be the most tl;dr posts on all of SR. :P
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Atticus on February 07, 2012, 07:30 pm
Thanks again for your help everyone! We're planning to take the acid on the first day and then wait a few days and take the ecstasy on the last night. I am worried about how bad the MDMA comedown will be but I'm planning to get some 5-HTP tomorrow. (What dose would be recommended, by the way? I'm about 150 pounds.) I would like to try some benzos as well in the future for comedowns (and in case of a bad trip on acid) but I doubt I'd get it in time now for this time.

I understand that it is risky for us, as inexperienced as we are, to be trying both of these drugs within a few days of each other and at relatively high doses. Thanks to advice here I am now considering starting with half a blotter of LSD and half an ecstasy pill, but I'll see how I'm feeling on the day.

And the notepad and pen idea is great, thanks!
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: jpisbetterthanme on February 08, 2012, 05:23 pm
@void :   

you <3 my tl;dr posts :)


if it saved one mind i would write a set of encyclopedias . . .


@ Atticus :
Let us know how it goes?
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: germanicus on February 08, 2012, 06:18 pm

1.)   For traveling (not international or on a plane, the only way I’ll be searched would be a random stop on the street), how should I store the acid to ensure it retains maximum potency? (I assume ecstasy pills will just be fine inside a baggie and hidden.)
2.)   For the LSD I’m storing at home, what way would this be able to be stored over a period of possibly up to a month or two while retaining maximum potency too?
3.)   While on the ecstasy pills we will be dancing for some of the time but probably not as much as at a club on E, what would be the recommended amount of water for us to drink per hour to ensure we don’t drink too much/little?
4.)   I have heard that sports drinks and salty snacks are good while on ecstasy, is this true?
5.)   Is it recommended to eat/drink anything while on acid? I hear chewing gum is a good idea.
6.)   For both LSD and Ecstasy – how much should we eat before and what types of foods/specific easily obtained foods are recommended for either?

As you already know, your two main enemies with LSD are light and heat.  If you don't have access to the fridge, put your blotters in an airtight container and find the coldest and darkest place in your pad.  A month or two isn't bad, but for longer periods of time, the fridge is really the best place for your L. My friend had L in a tiny vegetable storage container in his fridge for over a year at one point, and no harm had come to it at all. Sure, this could happen in a sock drawer as well, but I wouldn't take any chances: Light and heat disrupt and destabilize these kinds of compounds, so best avoid them at all costs.

The basic idea with hydration and ecstasy is that you can lose too many electrolytes with overexertion, and water makes that even worse—just like the marathon runner can die when he drinks too much water after his last lap.  His body is out of salt, and the water only dilutes what little salt his body has left.  So if you've been dancing for six straight hours, and haven't eaten anything because you're not hungry, and are instead binging on water, you are doing it wrong.

Your best bet is to go buy some natural coconut water (not milk!).  Coconut water doesn't have any of the crap that sports drinks have—artificial flavoring and dyes and sweeteners—and it's fully loaded on 5 different electrolytes.  It's delicious, and it's really good for you.  Sip on those if you're concerned.  Then again, if you're not going to be booking it at clubs the whole time, you're probably in no danger at all.  The hydration problem with ecstasy is no different than the marathon runner: Just don't overexert yourself.

As far as food is concerned, eating good food and drinking delicious beer with acid is amazing as the drug defamiliarizes your senses and reveals facets of the food—in both taste and smell—you would have never noticed before.  Drinking a delicious IPA can be like drinking a glass of the sweetest flower nectar, and with every bite of food, you will taste every informant of flavor ten times more powerfully than otherwise.  You should cook something really tasty.  Make it worth it!  But don't overthink it either.

Best of luck.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: sd4sd4 on February 08, 2012, 08:40 pm
@jp, gotta love your writing style :) I agree with a lot of things you say but let me add a few of my thoughts to this:

3- Bad trips: Your friend who went through hell is changed because he was traumatized and now he's terrified. He was in HELL! That is not at all worth the tradeoff to me. If you were given a drug and foreknowledge that it was going to give you a bad trip, would you take it? If you say yes you are either lying or not very bright: it's called a "bad" trip for a reason. If you'd like I can modify my statement and say 90% of the people I've seen have a bad trip experienced it as something bad, but then I'd just be stating a tautology, except being too much of a wuss to go 100% with it. In other words, I'd be consciously giving info I believe to be false. Bad trips are bad. All of them. Otherwise they aren't bad trips. Have you ever seen anybody end up in the psych ward? I have. Lots of people actually, probably half a dozen or so in my lifetime, and most of them were first time users. All of them were inexperienced users...

Wtf I'm not going to try to convince someone a bad trip is bad:)

And is your friend really better off? If you got the shit kicked out of you by a mugger, you would change your behavior afterwards, and it may be for the better to an outside observer but .. You'd be traumatized. A woman who gets date raped will start keeping a closer eye on her drinks, and that is a good habit to get into... But don't you think she'd give just about anything to just avoid the rape in the first place?

This is not just black and white. Bad trips are bad for the duration of the trip no question about that (or is there? :) ), but I do believe and experienced it myself that you can learn a mighty lot from it. Because most of the time it is bad for a reason.

Hence your date rape analogy is pretty one sided, let me present a counter example: you are sick, you know that you're sick (this is important) and you know that if you don't go through a probably painful and maybe even dangerous operation then you'll only get worse. You also know that if the operation is successful then you'll be healed. Now that "operation" part is what LSD is capable of doing on the psyche level. Heavily introspective trips can be difficult or downright bad (I just had one of this recently), but it is only because you have unsolved problems deep within. And if you're experienced enough then you can use this powerful but wonderful substance to heal your inner self.

At the end doing the risk assessment is up to the user but the more information he/she gets the easier it'll be for him/her to get to the right conclusion.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Atticus on February 09, 2012, 03:52 pm
Thanks again for the tips everyone. I'll try to get some Coconut water, sounds like a good idea.

I will post an in depth review to let everyone know how it went and what tips I did/didn't take. :)
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: happyroller1234 on February 09, 2012, 04:53 pm
Other people (the ones I was talking about in the post) take rolls and get sick and miserable. That is horrible. I didn't know that was a possibility and every one of them said it was like they were allergic to it. Yeah it could be caused by something else but ... Neither of us know. So this is moot. Point is I was speweing out info because it sounded like OP wasn't taking MDMA or LSD seriously enough . . .

How did those people ingest the rolls?  The only time I've vomited on MDMA was when I dosed orally.  If I just snort it, I never puke.  Some of my friends who parachuted the powder also got sick.  And smoking a heavy amount of weed when you're rolling, for some people, can be overwhelming and result in sickness.  Also, pure MDMA is different than a roll (i.e., it is not usually cut with amphetamines or downers). 
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: v01d on February 09, 2012, 11:53 pm
This is not just black and white. Bad trips are bad for the duration of the trip no question about that (or is there? :) ), but I do believe and experienced it myself that you can learn a mighty lot from it. Because most of the time it is bad for a reason.

Hence your date rape analogy is pretty one sided, let me present a counter example: you are sick, you know that you're sick (this is important) and you know that if you don't go through a probably painful and maybe even dangerous operation then you'll only get worse. You also know that if the operation is successful then you'll be healed. Now that "operation" part is what LSD is capable of doing on the psyche level. Heavily introspective trips can be difficult or downright bad (I just had one of this recently), but it is only because you have unsolved problems deep within. And if you're experienced enough then you can use this powerful but wonderful substance to heal your inner self.

At the end doing the risk assessment is up to the user but the more information he/she gets the easier it'll be for him/her to get to the right conclusion.
Spectacular post, couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: jefferys on February 12, 2012, 11:34 pm
I've felt worse coming down off weed (1-2 day hangover with severe headache and altered perception) than MDMA.
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: germanicus on February 13, 2012, 06:10 pm
I've felt worse coming down off weed (1-2 day hangover with severe headache and altered perception) than MDMA.

That's a new one...?
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: jefferys on February 14, 2012, 10:34 pm
Yeah, usually just a little bleary eyed. But it was my first time using edibles. Really heavy chocolate brownies so that may have contributed. That and too high I dose. I just have a few hits of the pipe every now and then now. Don't really enjoy weed all too much anyway (no euphoria, or mood lift).
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Atticus on February 19, 2012, 09:13 pm
I've been back for a while now but just been really busy therefore been unable to reply until now. I intended to do a full step by step review of my experiences with both of these drugs but due to time constraints I'll just give a quick review.

Anyway, on our first full day (we arrived the previous night and smoked some weed) we decided to hit it off with a tab of acid each. We all dosed the blotters I'd bought together at around 4pm and within half an hour we were really really giggly. Fast forward another half hour and we were all in a full-blown trip. LSD was a fun drug, I had a bad-ish trip about three or four times, the first feeling like it may have lasted around twenty minutes (of course you're never sure of time on acid), the other three for about five minutes each. However I doubt these were full bad trips, the first was pretty intense for a short while but it wasn't overly terrifying. The other three were mainly just like I felt like I was looking for something important that I couldn't remember. Out of my friends a couple others report having bad trips for a few minutes too - one saying that he had a very intense bad trip for about fifteen minutes.

I found it weird, on acid we mainly listened to hard electro/house music (to my displeasure, I put on some of The Beatles etc a few times but generally most people put on house/electro) and we raved a lot which was enjoyable but not what I expected. I enjoyed the visuals but they weren't as pronounced and different as I thought they'd be. (I didn't expect pink elephants or anything like that, I knew what to expect, but the only profound distortions I can totally remember was people's faces changing a bit.) Food tasted amazing though.

Overall it was a good experience. If I'm honest, I was a little disappointed with acid but that may be due to both dose (higher would be better in future I reckon, although I'll dose the same another couple times to become more used to the feeling) and being a little worried about my first time. We smoked a lot of weed in the comedown and it wasn't until around 6am that the trippin' ended and I managed to get some sleep. The next day we all felt very tired, although I didn't have a sore head or feel sick, and we smoked a lot of grass which helped. But apart from a few minutes of worry and a couple of broken beer bottles (juggling full beers on acid isn't a good idea!) we'd all really enjoyed the experience and it was a success.

Then, the night following the day of the comedown we dosed our ecstasy - again the whole thing at once. Within about forty minutes two of my friends said they could properly feel it, their pupils were very dilated and they said they were loving everything. Fast forward another half hour and all my friends except me were raving in the field behind the place we were staying with music blaring. I still didn't feel anything yet. It was until we headed inside and sat down (about 90mins after the initial dose) that I felt anything. Everyone apart from me and one other friend said that while coming up they felt a bit worried, very sweaty and nauseous for around two minutes each. I didn't feel this at all. Instantly, suddenly, I felt brilliant. The next two hours passed like twenty minutes where we just sat and talked and reminded each other that we loved each other (whoever said it was right, it is a little gay while on E in a room full of guys) and listened to music. (Mainly my kinda music, some of The Beatles and Led Zeppelin etc instead of house/electro which a lot of my friends are into and what you'd expect on ecstasy.)

Then we smoked huge amounts of weed again, although we all felt like we could totally handle smoking as much as we wanted, we finished about an ounce that night between us. Finally we got to bed at around 4am and woke up the next day to, bar a little tired (much more awake than we were on the acid comedown) feeling almost rejuvenated and still a bit lovey.

Ecstasy was an incredible experience. I've done shitty street ecstasy pills before but never have I felt like that. Based on that experience it's probably my new favourite drug! Although, I can see what people mean by wanting more, I didn't crave it but I would have liked some more. Again, nothing bad came from this experience, no one had anything bad happen to them and we even cleaned up the place a bit towards the ecstasy comedown!

Both drugs were definitely great experiences - one of my aims now is to candyflip at some point soon as I think if the ecstasy helps me to calm down a little on acid while still having the visuals it'd be a life-defining mix of drugs.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread - it all went brilliantly!
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: johnwholesome on February 20, 2012, 02:44 am
Try your MDxx with some green tea next time. Not too hot. I swear it's such a booster for some reason...
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Atticus on February 22, 2012, 07:11 pm
Try your MDxx with some green tea next time. Not too hot. I swear it's such a booster for some reason...

Thanks for the tip, I'll try this in future and see how it goes. :)
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: Psychswag123 on February 23, 2012, 04:50 am
Nothing better than being mdmazed!

 ;D
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: ForbiddenNode on February 23, 2012, 03:57 pm
Seratonin syndrome is INCREDIBLY rare and only really occurs in people mixing other drugs and MDMA such as DXM.

Yeah, don't do that. That is a bit off-topic but someone I know once took about 200mg of DXM and felt good for several hours. When they started to come down they took what someone told them was Ecstasy but didn't feel anything. Assuming it was fake, they took 400mg of DXM a few hours later and were foaming at the mouth. No noticeable permanent damage but still some scary shit.

Strangely enough, that person couldn't get high from THC until after that event. I'd say that's a sign of permanent brain chemistry alteration but some would say for the better.  ;)
Title: Re: A Few Questions About LSD and Ecstasy
Post by: jpisbetterthanme on March 04, 2012, 12:58 am
.... Just wanted to weigh in on this post after a little while - I was waiting on OP's report of how it went before I said anything. Let me just say that I am very happy that this went well for OP - what sticks out in my mind is the part of the trip report that says OP and OPs friends took the 2nd trip the day after *coming down* from the first - I think that is a very important distinction because it means there was a day of waiting time in between one dose and the other.

Either way, OP, I'm really glad this worked out for you - I think I may have misread a few things but I don't regret what I said (I still say if you did the two extremely powerful drugs on consecutive days you would've had a terrible experience).

BTW OP, I think your attitude about candyflipping (specifically, wanting to Do It Some Time) is healthy - just don't rush it. It sucks in many more ways than one to have an X/LSD experience you can't integrate. It's a shitty place to be psychologically but it means it's also kind of a waste of money.

RE the comments on bad trips, I agree with the poster that said that BAD TRIPS can be either powerfully positive life-changing experiences (a lot like the surgical analogy another poster used, which I also liked a lot) or terrible bad psychotic breaks, so there was no reason to compartmentalize and say it had to be one or the other. It sounds like OP and OP's friends had a good time though so . . . Thumbs up :-D


As far as the other people responding to me... Thanks for enjoying what I say whether you agreed or not ! :) Nothing in particular sticks out in my mind that I didn't address already, just a few minor concerns that my fellow forum-dwellers seem to have picked up on for me (thanks humans!) . . .

If you really want more elaboration on anything I said PM me. Just wanted to actually log in instead of lurking and say I'm happy for OP:)