Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: surmer on March 28, 2013, 12:23 am
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How perfect is the fabrication of New Town? Nightly news giving a narrative for the families and law enforcement involved in the calamity that occurred under the label of mental health. It is so dramatic that Americans have been fooled into believing Arms Control is the answer. North Korea is the vanguard of China’s hostile invasion.
How long ago was it that whistleblowers revealed China’s military hacking? Then an article not long after that first alarm bell: Chinese computer hackers are unhappy employees. A glimpse of deception that persists via foreign influences. Media Comm is global. Who’s tracking global currency? Writing? Ideas?
War has already begun. Now North Korea is taking the step past physical barriers: military mobility.
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I kinda hope war does break out between North and South Korea.
But then, I wonder if the US would use it as an excuse to implement more Orwellian policies.
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I kinda hope war does break out between North and South Korea.
But then, I wonder if the US would use it as an excuse to implement more Orwellian policies.
Be careful for what you wish for. US troops would be in there as quick as possible.
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US Troops are already there in a way, they are in South Korea and have been. The US govt will use ANY excuse to spend more $ and spill more blood, we are a country continuously at war for profit. The dark side also gets off on death and suffering, that is why there is so much of it in the world, the money interests prove the dark side feeds off of it, because they have the resources to change some of the wrongs, they choose not to. As the SgtMjr said "be careful what you wish for"
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I kinda hope war does break out between North and South Korea.
But then, I wonder if the US would use it as an excuse to implement more Orwellian policies.
Be careful for what you wish for. US troops would be in there as quick as possible.
I know a couple people in the military, and a few more who are planning on entering. NK has proven that they have nukes, I am not sure that any engagement would last long enough to bring in large numbers of troops. Once the first nuke goes off I doubt there will be any conventional warfare except to clean up.
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US Troops are already there in a way, they are in South Korea and have been. The US govt will use ANY excuse to spend more $ and spill more blood, we are a country continuously at war for profit. The dark side also gets off on death and suffering, that is why there is so much of it in the world, the money interests prove the dark side feeds off of it, because they have the resources to change some of the wrongs, they choose not to. As the SgtMjr said "be careful what you wish for"
Hooah.
I kinda hope war does break out between North and South Korea.
But then, I wonder if the US would use it as an excuse to implement more Orwellian policies.
Be careful for what you wish for. US troops would be in there as quick as possible.
I know a couple people in the military, and a few more who are planning on entering. NK has proven that they have nukes, I am not sure that any engagement would last long enough to bring in large numbers of troops. Once the first nuke goes off I doubt there will be any conventional warfare except to clean up.
Tier 1 Special Forces would be sent in to attempt a sabotage before any nukes would go off. I too spent a large portion of my life in the military.
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In some ways, albeit from tragic events in recent American history regarding firearms and domestic arms control, the race to own assault weapons has generated secondary effects for self-protection and self-preservation. Of course there are troops present in South Korea and throughout the Pacific. Avoiding nuclear options are worth losing a few men due to military aggression, but the bigger strategic interest is whether or now China will get caught supporting North Korea... God, I hope there is peace, for the sake of modern civilizations. Enough nuclear and conventional warfare involving China and the West could do as much damage as burning the Libraries of Alexandria.
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In some ways, albeit from tragic events in recent American history regarding firearms and domestic arms control, the race to own assault weapons has generated secondary effects for self-protection and self-preservation. Of course there are troops present in South Korea and throughout the Pacific. Avoiding nuclear options are worth losing a few men due to military aggression, but the bigger strategic interest is whether or now China will get caught supporting North Korea... God, I hope there is peace, for the sake of modern civilizations. Enough nuclear and conventional warfare involving China and the West could do as much damage as burning the Libraries of Alexandria.
I'm more concerned about Russia being caught supporting North Korea. I feel like another World War is approaching but now with widespread nuclear consequences. Russia, China, North Korea, Syria, Iran, Palestine Vs. US and our allies.
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In some ways, albeit from tragic events in recent American history regarding firearms and domestic arms control, the race to own assault weapons has generated secondary effects for self-protection and self-preservation. Of course there are troops present in South Korea and throughout the Pacific. Avoiding nuclear options are worth losing a few men due to military aggression, but the bigger strategic interest is whether or now China will get caught supporting North Korea... God, I hope there is peace, for the sake of modern civilizations. Enough nuclear and conventional warfare involving China and the West could do as much damage as burning the Libraries of Alexandria.
I'm more concerned about Russia being caught supporting North Korea. I feel like another World War is approaching but now with widespread nuclear consequences. Russia, China, North Korea, Syria, Iran, Palestine Vs. US and our allies.
i concur SgtMjr, ww is approaching and the amount of time they will let death, destruction, and suffering go on is unknown, could be 4 years could be 20 years, then the global masses will be ready for their solution-a one world govt. with a one world monetary system.
Side question SgtMjr, how do you feel about the US govt listing vets as possible domestic hazards?
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US Troops are already there in a way, they are in South Korea and have been. The US govt will use ANY excuse to spend more $ and spill more blood, we are a country continuously at war for profit. The dark side also gets off on death and suffering, that is why there is so much of it in the world, the money interests prove the dark side feeds off of it, because they have the resources to change some of the wrongs, they choose not to. As the SgtMjr said "be careful what you wish for"
Hooah.
I kinda hope war does break out between North and South Korea.
But then, I wonder if the US would use it as an excuse to implement more Orwellian policies.
Be careful for what you wish for. US troops would be in there as quick as possible.
I know a couple people in the military, and a few more who are planning on entering. NK has proven that they have nukes, I am not sure that any engagement would last long enough to bring in large numbers of troops. Once the first nuke goes off I doubt there will be any conventional warfare except to clean up.
Tier 1 Special Forces would be sent in to attempt a sabotage before any nukes would go off. I too spent a large portion of my life in the military.
Well shit. One of the guys I know that is looking to join is specifically shooting for Special Forces...
You think it is really possible that it could go global? Russia maybe, but aren't China and the US too interconnected economically?
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No, maple, I don't think it would go global, but war is never predictable. It's like the BTC. No one knows the outcome until it happens. There are always a few people that guess it right, but unless they are the decision-makers, outcomes are rarely known. Even with decision-makers, the next few steps are still unpredictable.
For the sake of human civilization, I hope that we don't fight North Korea. I hope that we don't get caught spying on them as we did in the Tonkin Sea, as in the case of Vietnam. However, the intelligence of the US public will not be enough to match that of the war machine. The Iraq War, although a critical step the Arab Spring (it doesn't take much to get them going... as every other generation is a war-torn and battle-hardened bunch), was a hoax in terms of its actual premise... This is where it gets very fuzzy. CIA fuzzy.
Democracy in the Middle East? Instead of US-chosen dictators? Jesus, that would be beautiful. Independent and culturally revolutionary Middle East, educated and proud. Instead, we have Iran; Syria is in upheaval. Egypt has fallen off the radar as far as Prime Time goes, replaced by gun violence. Gun Violence? Is it the GMOs? Autism is 1 in 10, now? 1 in 4?
Anyway, I hope we don't go to war. Everyone has nukes. Everyone has everything to lose. We just need to infiltrate and educate the people of North Korea.
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In some ways, albeit from tragic events in recent American history regarding firearms and domestic arms control, the race to own assault weapons has generated secondary effects for self-protection and self-preservation. Of course there are troops present in South Korea and throughout the Pacific. Avoiding nuclear options are worth losing a few men due to military aggression, but the bigger strategic interest is whether or now China will get caught supporting North Korea... God, I hope there is peace, for the sake of modern civilizations. Enough nuclear and conventional warfare involving China and the West could do as much damage as burning the Libraries of Alexandria.
I'm more concerned about Russia being caught supporting North Korea. I feel like another World War is approaching but now with widespread nuclear consequences. Russia, China, North Korea, Syria, Iran, Palestine Vs. US and our allies.
i concur SgtMjr, ww is approaching and the amount of time they will let death, destruction, and suffering go on is unknown, could be 4 years could be 20 years, then the global masses will be ready for their solution-a one world govt. with a one world monetary system.
Side question SgtMjr, how do you feel about the US govt listing vets as possible domestic hazards?
Do you speak of Homeland Security saying that returning veterans show potential for domestic terrorist groups? If so, I find this very very offensive as I am a veteran myself and 99% of troops that fought overseas would never be involved in such a thing. Sure, some guys are not in the right mental state when coming home from combat but I wouldn't say that qualifies them as a 'domestic hazard'.
US Troops are already there in a way, they are in South Korea and have been. The US govt will use ANY excuse to spend more $ and spill more blood, we are a country continuously at war for profit. The dark side also gets off on death and suffering, that is why there is so much of it in the world, the money interests prove the dark side feeds off of it, because they have the resources to change some of the wrongs, they choose not to. As the SgtMjr said "be careful what you wish for"
Hooah.
I kinda hope war does break out between North and South Korea.
But then, I wonder if the US would use it as an excuse to implement more Orwellian policies.
Be careful for what you wish for. US troops would be in there as quick as possible.
I know a couple people in the military, and a few more who are planning on entering. NK has proven that they have nukes, I am not sure that any engagement would last long enough to bring in large numbers of troops. Once the first nuke goes off I doubt there will be any conventional warfare except to clean up.
Tier 1 Special Forces would be sent in to attempt a sabotage before any nukes would go off. I too spent a large portion of my life in the military.
Well shit. One of the guys I know that is looking to join is specifically shooting for Special Forces...
You think it is really possible that it could go global? Russia maybe, but aren't China and the US too interconnected economically?
I'm talking of Delta Force, ST6, etc. (Tier 1 Anti-terrorism units), but Special Forces would soon follow along with the Army Rangers. There's always a possibility but not many countries want a war with the US, UK, etc. I would think China would not get involved so quickly as they've been essentially begging North Korea to comply with regulations and we are very interconnected economically.
No, maple, I don't think it would go global, but war is never predictable. It's like the BTC. No one knows the outcome until it happens. There are always a few people that guess it right, but unless they are the decision-makers, outcomes are rarely known. Even with decision-makers, the next few steps are still unpredictable.
For the sake of human civilization, I hope that we don't fight North Korea. I hope that we don't get caught spying on them as we did in the Tonkin Sea, as in the case of Vietnam. However, the intelligence of the US public will not be enough to match that of the war machine. The Iraq War, although a critical step the Arab Spring (it doesn't take much to get them going... as every other generation is a war-torn and battle-hardened bunch), was a hoax in terms of its actual premise... This is where it gets very fuzzy. CIA fuzzy.
Democracy in the Middle East? Instead of US-chosen dictators? Jesus, that would be beautiful. Independent and culturally revolutionary Middle East, educated and proud. Instead, we have Iran; Syria is in upheaval. Egypt has fallen off the radar as far as Prime Time goes, replaced by gun violence. Gun Violence? Is it the GMOs? Autism is 1 in 10, now? 1 in 4?
Anyway, I hope we don't go to war. Everyone has nukes. Everyone has everything to lose. We just need to infiltrate and educate the people of North Korea.
I agree. CIA and the whole Middle Eastern crisis is a much more difficult subject that I rather not get into, but could go on for days about. But tensions are running high and it's about to get REAL ugly.
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Just curious, as a military person what do you think of the conspiracy theories that claim the US government is gradually attempting to limit our freedom? Hypothetically, if the US government started becoming more and more Orwellian, how would you react to it? That could be what the DHS is worried about, and the phrasing of it as "domestic terror" just a head start on propaganda. They did buy a lot of tanks.
EDIT: Also, what impact do you think a large scale conventional war would have on the sociopolitical state in the US, compared to WW1 and WW2?
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I think world war breaking out just isn't realistic. North Korea can talk a big show, and they like to act like they have a ton of power, but they would lose any hope of allying with China if they declared war on the US because of their troops in South Korea. As for Russia, they too would lose a lot by going against the United States, and their leaders know it. I'm not saying the United States is invincible or something, but as other people have said we love to spend money on "defense" something like 17% of all collected tax money goes to defense, more than the top 7 spenders in the world combined. Which, is crazy. North Korea just doesn't have enough chips on the board to be able to fight a successful war, and maybe Kim Jung Un doesn't know that, but I'm sure his generals do.
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Just curious, as a military person what do you think of the conspiracy theories that claim the US government is gradually attempting to limit our freedom? Hypothetically, if the US government started becoming more and more Orwellian, how would you react to it? That could be what the DHS is worried about, and the phrasing of it as "domestic terror" just a head start on propaganda. They did buy a lot of tanks.
EDIT: Also, what impact do you think a large scale conventional war would have on the sociopolitical state in the US, compared to WW1 and WW2?
Of course there gradually attempting to limit our freedom, but to what extent I am unsure. DHS's statement is most likely in preparation for the hypothetical situation of an Orwellian US, as many veterans would react in a way similar to 'domestic terror' if such a situation were to occur. Only to overthrow a tyrant government, not to hurt the people, so terror is the wrong word to use.
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Just curious, as a military person what do you think of the conspiracy theories that claim the US government is gradually attempting to limit our freedom? Hypothetically, if the US government started becoming more and more Orwellian, how would you react to it? That could be what the DHS is worried about, and the phrasing of it as "domestic terror" just a head start on propaganda. They did buy a lot of tanks.
EDIT: Also, what impact do you think a large scale conventional war would have on the sociopolitical state in the US, compared to WW1 and WW2?
Of course there gradually attempting to limit our freedom, but to what extent I am unsure. DHS's statement is most likely in preparation for the hypothetical situation of an Orwellian US, as many veterans would react in a way similar to 'domestic terror' if such a situation were to occur. Only to overthrow a tyrant government, not to hurt the people, so terror is the wrong word to use.
It is the nature of bureaucrats and politicians to collect as much power as they can, even at the cost of sacrificing other peoples freedom. I do not think they will stop until they are stopped, and if they manage to start implementing Orwellian policies it could get really difficult fast. I remember the end of Orwells 1984, and it was pretty damn depressing. I mean, I doubt it will get THAT bad before people start to fight back, but quite a few of the measures that might initially be supported by some members of the public would be instrumental in limiting the effectiveness of any sort of revolution, such as CCTV or internet censorship acts. I don't think any sort of open physical revolt will prove effective in the end.
I think world war breaking out just isn't realistic. North Korea can talk a big show, and they like to act like they have a ton of power, but they would lose any hope of allying with China if they declared war on the US because of their troops in South Korea. As for Russia, they too would lose a lot by going against the United States, and their leaders know it. I'm not saying the United States is invincible or something, but as other people have said we love to spend money on "defense" something like 17% of all collected tax money goes to defense, more than the top 7 spenders in the world combined. Which, is crazy. North Korea just doesn't have enough chips on the board to be able to fight a successful war, and maybe Kim Jung Un doesn't know that, but I'm sure his generals do.
Assuming the NK government is composed of totally sane and reasonable people. If the top players there decide they don't particularly care that much about living anymore, they could take all those fanatics they have been nurturing and let them loose just to cause as much damage as they could. Same with Iran. I'm not sure either of those country's leaders are totally sane.
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@maple
Haha, yes, you're right. Still, their leaders aren't THAT stupid and I think they know they if they decided to break out into nuclear war, their people would rebel. I mean, what have you got to lose if your country is going into a suicide mission? Leaders of Iran and North Korea are smarter than you might think.
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With Iran, I could see their people rebelling if their leaders did something that stupid. I do not think it would be that simple with NK though, they have been way more isolated and exposed to propaganda than Iranians have. I would not put it past them to stage an American attack just to get their citizens riled up.
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With Iran, I could see their people rebelling if their leaders did something that stupid. I do not think it would be that simple with NK though, they have been way more isolated and exposed to propaganda than Iranians have. I would not put it past them to stage an American attack just to get their citizens riled up.
The answer lies within your post. The NK people have been isolated. They need to be freed, so that they can share the global human enterprise.
E.U., NAFTA., O.P.E.C., U.N., ....
We need to "infiltrate" the NK people, so that they don't mimic the fictional Unsullied from Game of Thrones. This requires a tremendous amount of resources, but the outcome could be the absence of nuclear fallout--which the WORLD WILL SUFFER. Radioactive xenon gas... other radioactive isotopes: Iodine (do you have potassium iodide stockpiles?)... Volcanic activity is even possible just beyond North Korean borders in China. The volcanic lake there has raised due to an exacerbated magma chamber below.... thanks to the 3 or 4 magnitude nuclear-induced earthquake (Xenon was detected, proving the detonation of a nuclear weapon)....
Parenthetically, the U.S. media seems resolute for North Korean incompetence, claiming they do not have I.C.B.M technology reliable enough to reach the U.S., much less be accurate. Truth be told, no one knows every secret! We don't want to be crying over a 9/11 times 1,000, do we? No...
So, thermodynamically, what does it take to prevent a nuclear holocaust? How many resources are we willing to dedicate to global peace? Global intelligence? Global health?
What the fuck. I'm downloading (pirating) Korean Rosetta Stone TONIGHT. If we can penetrate the NK regime with resources and aid, education and hope, then a nuclear holocaust can be prevented. You can join me now, or cry over the next 9/11.... because every tragedy we suffer is never the last.... there is always something worse...
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I would not doubt that attempts are already underway. But if they are really hardcore brainwashed...and they think that we would do anything to subvert them...I do not know if that would work. It would be awesome if it did though!
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I would not doubt that attempts are already underway. But if they are really hardcore brainwashed...and they think that we would do anything to subvert them...I do not know if that would work. It would be awesome if it did though!
The Unsullied.... Death is the only option.
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"No serious sociologist any longer believes that the voice of the people expresses any divine or specially wise and lofty idea. The voice of the people expresses the mind of the people, and that mind is made up for it by the group leaders in whom it believes and by those persons who understand the manipulation of public opinion. It is composed of inherited prejudices and symbols and cliches and verbal formulas supplied to them by the leaders.
Fortunately, the sincere and gifted politician is able, by the instrument of propaganda, to mold and form the will of the people."
- Propaganda (1928) Edward Bernays
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With Iran, I could see their people rebelling if their leaders did something that stupid. I do not think it would be that simple with NK though, they have been way more isolated and exposed to propaganda than Iranians have. I would not put it past them to stage an American attack just to get their citizens riled up.
This is very true. NK citizens would NEVER rebel unless they already had the idea in their heads. The amount of propaganda in NK is crazy, and their leader is viewed as a god. If someone regains their sight due to a surgery, they thank their leader for allowing it to happen, etc.
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I find it funny that we were hell-bent on invading Iraq over the "possibility" that they may have Wmd's. Fucking North Korea says we got the motherfucking nukes, we want to kill you, we hate you, ching chong motherfuckers. We sit idle and impose sanction after sanction and act like there no big deal, like its a game in the schoolyard. I tell you what though the people who have and are going to continue suffer till the end of this, is the people of North Korea. Check out the Vice guide to North Korea on Youtube. Its crazy to see the state of that country and what this dictator has done. I bet if North Korea was sitting on billions of dollars of lithium, oil or other non renewable resources it would be a pile of ash right now.
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I find it funny that we were hell-bent on invading Iraq over the "possibility" that they may have Wmd's. Fucking North Korea says we got the motherfucking nukes, we want to kill you, we hate you, ching chong motherfuckers. We sit idle and impose sanction after sanction and act like there no big deal, like its a game in the schoolyard. I tell you what though the people who have and are going to continue suffer till the end of this, is the people of North Korea. Check out the Vice guide to North Korea on Youtube. Its crazy to see the state of that country and what this dictator has done. I bet if North Korea was sitting on billions of dollars of lithium, oil or other non renewable resources it would be a pile of ash right now.
I never thought of that. Good point. That just brings more shame upon the US gov.
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I find it funny that we were hell-bent on invading Iraq over the "possibility" that they may have Wmd's. Fucking North Korea says we got the motherfucking nukes, we want to kill you, we hate you, ching chong motherfuckers. We sit idle and impose sanction after sanction and act like there no big deal, like its a game in the schoolyard. I tell you what though the people who have and are going to continue suffer till the end of this, is the people of North Korea. Check out the Vice guide to North Korea on Youtube. Its crazy to see the state of that country and what this dictator has done. I bet if North Korea was sitting on billions of dollars of lithium, oil or other non renewable resources it would be a pile of ash right now.
I never thought of that. Good point. That just brings more shame upon the US gov.
Also, foreign policy is based on a game of darts, played by blind guy who is really throwing darts at a map with strings of action prompts.
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I find it funny that we were hell-bent on invading Iraq over the "possibility" that they may have Wmd's. Fucking North Korea says we got the motherfucking nukes, we want to kill you, we hate you, ching chong motherfuckers. We sit idle and impose sanction after sanction and act like there no big deal, like its a game in the schoolyard. I tell you what though the people who have and are going to continue suffer till the end of this, is the people of North Korea. Check out the Vice guide to North Korea on Youtube. Its crazy to see the state of that country and what this dictator has done. I bet if North Korea was sitting on billions of dollars of lithium, oil or other non renewable resources it would be a pile of ash right now.
Meh, I wouldn't say NK has been that belligerent. Also, the threats they've been making, are something they have been doing for a long time and is not a new thing for Kim Jung Un. Kim Jung Il did it all the time as well. They don't have nukes that could reach America, except for some outer territories. That's why we haven't done much. The reason they are so antagonistic at the moment IS the sanctions. America is the one that keeps putting up sanctions, and I agree with you that's not the right thing to do. The right thing to do is ignore their "threats" until something serious comes up. Remember that time they photoshopped a photo to make it seem like there were more people? Just goes to show that NK is all bark and no bite. The sanction bullshit needs to stop though, agreed.
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Yeah, South Korea has a new president--only in office 5 months. This is stress-testing... as we're good with stress.