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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: John_one on June 20, 2013, 02:53 pm

Title: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: John_one on June 20, 2013, 02:53 pm
Anyone have any experience in using benzos, when you can't sleep after a night with a lot of speed and alcohol or mdma and alcohol?
I was thinking about buying some to help me sleep.
Is it a good or bad idea? If it's good, what kind should i buy? 
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: gtgeorgz on June 20, 2013, 03:39 pm
I usually do about 1mg or 2mg's of Xanax after a night on MDMA, coke or such alike. Defo works better than Valium for me in terms of putting me to sleep.
Be sure not to drink to much alcohol before you take the xanax, I usually have no more than 5 drinks when mixing with coke/MDMA or other things. As mixing two downers causes a higher degree of CNS depression with can result in death (extreme cases) Although I have mixed about 2grams of GHB, 3 beers and about 6mg's of Xanax after a HEAVY night on cocaine. Woke up still very much under the influence of the downers but feeling very hungover.
I tend to only take 1mg of Xanax if I've had say, more than 2 drinks. As
1. it can be dangerous 2. it makes for a weird hangover mixing the two.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: jackofspades on June 20, 2013, 03:41 pm
Depends on you tolerance i supposed.
A Xanax 2mg bar can be used as a sleeping pill for an average adult male.
It will knock you out and once you sober out of it youll feel pretty good, and rested, but youll want more.

Dont take them with the MDMA/Speed/Booze as they do not compliment each other.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: zvp1014 on June 20, 2013, 05:39 pm
Dont take them with the MDMA/Speed/Booze as they do not compliment each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedball_(drug)

Xanax + Speed = Bliss.

Hell, Xanax + Caffeine = Bliss.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: cabinman01 on June 20, 2013, 05:46 pm
Quote
Hell, Xanax + Caffeine = Bliss.

^^^This
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: John_one on June 20, 2013, 07:35 pm
Sounds like something to be careful with.
Thanks for the reply.   
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: zvp1014 on June 20, 2013, 07:52 pm
Sounds like something to be careful with.
Thanks for the reply.

You definitely need to be careful with benzodiazepines- or so I've heard. I personally have a Xanax (Alprazolam) prescription; yet I only take it when I need it for anxiety issues, or after doing a drug like MDMA, LSD or Amphetamine to settle down when all is said and done. I've irresponsibly taken it WITH amphetamine, and it felt amazing.

However, it's always in moderation (no more than 2mg and usually only 1mg) and taken infrequently (once every one or two weeks in recent times). I did have a period where I was taking 1mg every weekday, but even when I stopped that I never experienced any withdrawal symptoms or cravings.

That being said, plenty of people develop severe addictions to the drug class and they are reportedly hell to come off of. They are, however, fantastic for alleviating the 'hangovers' of substances like MDMA, or for getting to sleep after ingesting a substance like LSD.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Ben on June 21, 2013, 01:22 am
There is reason for concern, especially when alcohol in involved.

Combining alcohol and benzo's can result into respiratory depression which in some cases has a fatal outcome.

The widespread notion on this is that they should never be combined, which is probably sound medical advise, but rarely practical. Moderation would be the key answer here, as well as erring on the side of caution.

Thins like xanax are often suggested to be used as an agent stop a bad trip and such, and tht works very well. If you have been drinking too you should have someone present when you sleep it all off though. The risk of fatal respiratory depression is not very large, but on the other hand you should really ask yourself if you want to risk dying from it.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Ben on June 23, 2013, 01:44 am
It sure is tempting, but you may just have another drink to fall asleep in such circumstances,

Surely benzo's will help you sleep, but actually waking up the day after is somewhat important too :D
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: ign0ramus on June 23, 2013, 10:54 pm
I wouldn't be able to sleep without xanax after a night of Mdma use.  I would stay up all day restless and won't be able to sleep until the next night, it was horrible lying around the house like a zombie all day.  Now I just eat me a light meal, wait an hour, and then take 2mg.  I'm out in a couple minutes and wake up refreshed!  Xanax has been a lifesaver.

PS - I don't use xanax recreationally
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Juggernog on June 24, 2013, 02:57 am
Quote
Hell, Xanax + Caffeine = Bliss.

^^^This
Almost a daily adventure for me.
My tolerance for xanax is about 5-7mg in about 2 hours. Usually after about the 5th I'm out of it..
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: WingWong on June 24, 2013, 03:43 am
Be aware that benzo withdrawal (if you become addicted) is some of the scariest shit known. It particularly comes on quick with short half life benzos like Xanax. I went through rebound axiety and rebound insomnia after taking only 1mg Xanax a day for three weeks! It was fucking aweful.

Other than that go for it! Benzos rule.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Juggernog on June 24, 2013, 04:00 am
Be aware that benzo withdrawal (if you become addicted) is some of the scariest shit known. It particularly comes on quick with short half life benzos like Xanax. I went through rebound axiety and rebound insomnia after taking only 1mg Xanax a day for three weeks! It was fucking aweful.

Other than that go for it! Benzos rule.
Yeah, I get really bad insomnia and a bit moody after my xanny binges. Other then that I'm good.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: ritzlover on June 24, 2013, 05:32 am
Do NOT mix benzodiazepines with large quantities of alcohol. You can easily black out and do very stupid, dangerous things. You may take a low dose of Xanax (.5 to 1 mg) while you are heavily drinking, but I would not take any more than that. Once you are sobering up from the alcohol, you may take more (not to exceed 4 mg). I'm serious. The mix can be deadly, be very careful. I'm speaking from experience.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: WingWong on June 24, 2013, 06:03 am
Do NOT mix benzodiazepines with large quantities of alcohol. You can easily black out and do very stupid, dangerous things. You may take a low dose of Xanax (.5 to 1 mg) while you are heavily drinking, but I would not take any more than that. Once you are sobering up from the alcohol, you may take more (not to exceed 4 mg). I'm serious. The mix can be deadly, be very careful. I'm speaking from experience.

Another good point. There's more drug education on these forums than IRL especially from doctors. I get Valium legally and was never ever warned of the dangers by doctors.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: ritzlover on June 24, 2013, 06:20 am
Doctors don't know shit about the drugs they prescribe. I suffered SSRI withdrawal syndrome, and the doc that prescribed Zoloft to me had no idea what I was talking about when I described my symptoms. I had to diagnose myself and create my own weaning plan. Um, you gave me a drug that makes you feel like your brain is being electrocuted when you stop taking it, and you, an MD with a specialty in psychiatry, didn't know this happens?

Fucking morons.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Juggernog on June 24, 2013, 06:45 am
I am not a huge fan of alcohol, And my mother has warned me endless times about alcohol and benzos.. I may take a lot of benzos, but never too much alcohol with it.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: WingWong on June 24, 2013, 09:55 am
Doctors don't know shit about the drugs they prescribe. I suffered SSRI withdrawal syndrome, and the doc that prescribed Zoloft to me had no idea what I was talking about when I described my symptoms. I had to diagnose myself and create my own weaning plan. Um, you gave me a drug that makes you feel like your brain is being electrocuted when you stop taking it, and you, an MD with a specialty in psychiatry, didn't know this happens?

Fucking morons.


Yep. They're fucking quick to hand out the SSRIs because they are allegedly non-addictive but try asking for benzos or, worse, oxy.

Sorry for going off topic.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Ben on June 25, 2013, 01:21 am
Prescription drugs (from a pharmacy, not SR) should come with a leaflet that actually does mention all these problems. both combination with alcohol, withdrawal issues and such. It is up to the user to to read that information or not.

For benzodiazepines it certainly does caution against the combination with alcohol.

GP's should still explicitly mention it though, since the leaflet with many medication is the length of your average EULA and probably not much easier to understand unless you have a background in biology, chemistry, medicine or such.

Pharma companies don't seem overly eager to help either though. Things like 20/30 mg citalopram are often in a tablet form that is virtually impossible to break in half with bare hands. I suppose they'd rather sell yet another prescription for 10 mg tablets when you want to stop using them, despite having enough in stock to break in halves or quarters over a period of months.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: newbottles on June 30, 2013, 09:46 pm
Be aware that benzo withdrawal (if you become addicted) is some of the scariest shit known. It particularly comes on quick with short half life benzos like Xanax. I went through rebound axiety and rebound insomnia after taking only 1mg Xanax a day for three weeks! It was fucking aweful.

Other than that go for it! Benzos rule.
Yeah, I get really bad insomnia and a bit moody after my xanny binges. Other then that I'm good.

Benzos are such an odd category.  On one hand they are the perfect thing to have in your toolbox always, to use as needed.  Not only do they neutralize bad psychedlic trips, allow you to sleep after amphetamine binges, but I also find them useful for alcohol hangovers.  And they can be huge in helping deal with opioid WDs.

On the other hand, my understanding is that physical tolerance to benzos leads to the most brutal WDs known to man.  I am happy to say that I have no firsthand experience here.

I keep a stash of generic Xanax/alprazolam for the above reasons.  I also enjoy combining it with alcohol, 1mg at a time.   I definitely enjoy combining it with caffeine, 1mg at a time.  I don't go overboard there.

I do go overboard on alcohol frequently but that is BORING topic for SR boards.

I thankfully don't have a serious anxiety disorder, but man those benzos are great at allowing you to not give a fuck about anything.  If you love booze, you will love benzos.   And you can dose such that you aren't very fucked up either.  I have found short term memory issues to be present but very mild.  I am talking about 1mg doses, and maybe maxing out at 3mg over a long day/night.  Again, this is with relatively heavy drinking with a a high alcohol tolerance.

I suspect many drug abusers are ultimately seeking the above outcome of not giving a fuck for a few hours.  So word to the wise.

Do your homework and stay safe.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Juggernog on June 30, 2013, 10:52 pm
Absolutely, When I do take them, I tend to have that "I don't give a fuck" attitude. Not for long though. lol
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Ben on July 01, 2013, 12:58 am
The risk in combining benzo's with alcohol really is a doubly edged sword.

You can, and often will, experience effects like anterograde amnesia, which are not very dangerous despite being experienced as very uncomfortable by some.

The dangerous effects arise it  higher dosages where respiratory depression becomes a risk. This is not a condition that causes massive deaths at all, but it is somehting that happens to certain persons under unfortunate circumstances. Sadly, it is not possible to predict who will fall victim to it and who will not.

Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: zvp1014 on July 01, 2013, 04:02 am
Benzos and alcohol are a very easy way to kill yourself.

1mg of Xanax and an Adios Motherfucker combined result in some pretty fantastic feelings.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Juggernog on July 01, 2013, 04:43 am
Benzos and alcohol are a very easy way to kill yourself.

1mg of Xanax and an Adios Motherfucker combined result in some pretty fantastic feelings.

1mg, man I wish that was enough for me now adays...
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: xlr8r on July 01, 2013, 06:57 am
Amazing i dont know how you guys get knocked out from a 2mg xanax, back when i had a toleaance i sometimes took 50, but i would sewriously wwarn against that, anyway, if you have zero tolerance to benzos i would recommend taking two 30mg serapax, or five 5mg vallium, or one 2mg xanax bar. Either of those options will make you feel nice and relaxed without knocking you out
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: FollowIcculus on July 01, 2013, 07:10 am
Absolutely, When I do take them, I tend to have that "I don't give a fuck" attitude. Not for long though. lol
I get the I don't give a fucks too but my biggest issue with Xanax is that I redose and don't remember it.  I swear to god every time I eat a bar and go out for the night I wake up in the morning thinking ok I should have 10 bars left only to find that I really have 4.  My generosity surely plays a role in this but it just seems like I "lose" one bar for every one I remember grubbing.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: xlr8r on July 01, 2013, 07:14 am
Absolutely, When I do take them, I tend to have that "I don't give a fuck" attitude. Not for long though. lol
I get the I don't give a fucks too but my biggest issue with Xanax is that I redose and don't remember it.  I swear to god every time I eat a bar and go out for the night I wake up in the morning thinking ok I should have 10 bars left only to find that I really have 4.  My generosity surely plays a role in this but it just seems like I "lose" one bar for every one I remember grubbing.

EXACTLY RIGHT BRO AND THIS IS WHY THEY ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS DRUG THERE IS, YOU TAKE THEM AND THINK YOUR OK BUT YOUR NOT.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: FollowIcculus on July 01, 2013, 07:29 am
Absolutely, When I do take them, I tend to have that "I don't give a fuck" attitude. Not for long though. lol
I get the I don't give a fucks too but my biggest issue with Xanax is that I redose and don't remember it.  I swear to god every time I eat a bar and go out for the night I wake up in the morning thinking ok I should have 10 bars left only to find that I really have 4.  My generosity surely plays a role in this but it just seems like I "lose" one bar for every one I remember grubbing.
EXACTLY RIGHT BRO AND THIS IS WHY THEY ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS DRUG THERE IS, YOU TAKE THEM AND THINK YOUR OK BUT YOUR NOT.
Yeah you think you're fine but everyone knows you are super fucked up and you can sometimes make an ass out of yourself but the most dangerous drug there is?  You've gotta be kidding.  And for the love of god push that little button on the left of your keyboard that says "caps lock." 
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: newbottles on July 01, 2013, 05:33 pm
Amazing i dont know how you guys get knocked out from a 2mg xanax, back when i had a toleaance i sometimes took 50, but i would sewriously wwarn against that, anyway, if you have zero tolerance to benzos i would recommend taking two 30mg serapax, or five 5mg vallium, or one 2mg xanax bar. Either of those options will make you feel nice and relaxed without knocking you out

I wouldn't call 2mg Xanax 'dangerous' to a user with zero tolerance, but I know that when I had zero tolerance 2mg and one beer knocked me the fuck out.  And I have a high alcohol tolerance.  1mg dose was much more reasonable.  I would recommend 1mg for a user with no tolerance, and no combination with alcohol until you evaluate your benzo tolerance.  YMMV.

BTW does anyone have any anecdotal or evidence based opinion on when serious benzo WDs become a potential risk?  ie what level of tolerance/dose/frequency? 

I would hate to be surprised or for anyone else to be surprised in this regard.  Opioid WDs are one thing but clearly a taper is not an "option" but becomes a necessity for benzos or alcohol at a certain point.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: zvp1014 on July 01, 2013, 07:46 pm
I wouldn't call 2mg Xanax 'dangerous' to a user with zero tolerance, but I know that when I had zero tolerance 2mg and one beer knocked me the fuck out.

When I first began my prescription Xanax, I once took two as I was having very high level anxiety that day- thankfully I had somebody to drive me as I passed out from it.

Now 2mg is nothing if not combined with something else.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Ben on July 02, 2013, 01:00 am
Well, that's tolerance at work.

If you give someone just 1 mg of xanax and a beer, chances are it will knock them out for the rest of the evening. Surely they will not die from this, just be sound asleep when left undisturbed.

It seems that tolerance to benzo's has more than one stage. The very first one, 'virgins' so to say come with a quick knock-out effect, and people that only use them once a month or so seem to remain on that level.

Once you get to more frequent use, say a couple of times a week, this knock out effect disappears completely for doses like 1 to 2 mg xanax. The anxiolytic function is still there though, so it is basically doing what you want it to do: reduce anxiety without knocking you out.

The problems come with higher dosages, usually taken daily. The tolerance will gradually build to a point where you will need larger doses to achieve the desired effect, but at this point dependence also presents itself.

Finding a stable usage pattern somewhere in the second of these stages is very tricky, especially because the unpleasant effects are gone entirely at this point, and there is little reason not to use any more apart from cost or fear of respiratory depression.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: zvp1014 on July 02, 2013, 02:59 am
Finding a stable usage pattern somewhere in the second of these stages is very tricky, especially because the unpleasant effects are gone entirely at this point, and there is little reason not to use any more apart from cost or fear of respiratory depression.

Which is why I'm thankful that something seemingly clicked in my head to decrease my anxiety significantly, as I used to be taking 1-2mg daily for a few weeks but didn't develop a dependance. Now it's actually being used PRN... and when I wish to save on drink prices.
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: Ben on July 03, 2013, 01:15 am
What 'clicked' exactly?
Title: Re: Benzos after a hard night of doing drugs?
Post by: zvp1014 on July 05, 2013, 03:53 am
What 'clicked' exactly?
Many things.

I'm my own worst enemy, I can do as I wish and others dislike it they can deal with it themselves, people are more concerned with their own lives than yours, etc.

I was taking it for social anxiety.