Silk Road forums

Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: tankhere on July 06, 2013, 05:08 pm

Title: Cleaning coins?
Post by: tankhere on July 06, 2013, 05:08 pm
Hey everyone, feels nice to finally join here.

Starting with noobish questions already, I'd like to know how/where to clean your coins before sending them from your wallet to SR.

I've tried searching for CoinCleaner as I've heard of that one before, but had no success.

Any method is welcome for anonymizing the path between your wallet and SR.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 06, 2013, 05:17 pm
Bitcoin Fog.

http://fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion/
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: tankhere on July 06, 2013, 05:42 pm
Sounds easy as a pie, much obliged.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: youcantouchthis on July 06, 2013, 07:49 pm
I can vote for Bitcoin Fog as well.

Thank you
YCTT
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: joebiden on July 06, 2013, 07:55 pm
any thoughts on if this is necessary for small purchasers. doesn't SR have something like this built in?
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: youcantouchthis on July 06, 2013, 07:56 pm
There is no need to use that.
SR is mixing the BTC all the time they are on their server.

Thank you
YCTT
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: tankhere on July 06, 2013, 08:14 pm
Yeah but BC has to get to your SR wallet from somewhere first... and I was looking for a solution to mask that. And Bitcoinfog is great :)
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 06, 2013, 08:15 pm
There is no need to use that.
SR is mixing the BTC all the time they are on their server.

Thank you
YCTT

It depends on how safe you want to be.  If the SR servers are ever found or compromised by LE then the SR mixing doesn't matter.  They will see everything and have access to all of the public keys.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: HurtsOnHeroin on July 07, 2013, 08:26 am
There are weak attacks that don't require compromising the server. LE creates a buyer account and transfers 0.01 BTC to it. Then they watch where the coins are transferred from that address. Over time they could identify many addresses in the tumbler, depending on how it works, and look for big transfers to addresses that can be linked to exchanges. They won't be able to get info about individual purchases, though.

This isn't a threat to buyers, but the more steps you take to anonymize or mix your coins, the safer you will be.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 07, 2013, 12:35 pm
There are weak attacks that don't require compromising the server. LE creates a buyer account and transfers 0.01 BTC to it. Then they watch where the coins are transferred from that address. Over time they could identify many addresses in the tumbler, depending on how it works, and look for big transfers to addresses that can be linked to exchanges. They won't be able to get info about individual purchases, though.

True, and the tumbler is pretty shitty.  Remember the Casey Jones case?  Over a half a million coins went through one wallet address if I remember correctly.  That isn't very good tumbling in my opinion...  It should be using more new wallet addresses.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Gwendolyn on July 07, 2013, 01:35 pm
Many thanks for the information!
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: buckschap on July 07, 2013, 01:55 pm
There are quite a few people on this forum pushing Bitcoin Fog. I wonder what their agenda is. Perhaps the owner of BF is a top 1% vendor and has set it all up to wash HIS coins (quite a difficult task, I would imagine). I would personally never use it because the 1-3% fee is ridiculous. What does BF do that blockchain.info's shared send doesn't? I know it's on 'clearnet' (not that I care) but their mixer is open source, so someone should be able to set it up on Tor (if it hasn't already been done) and charge a REASONABLE fee for the service.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: tankhere on July 07, 2013, 02:16 pm
Personally, I still say having this extra layer of protection (especially if you bought your coins traceably like I did) worths the fee, but then again, I usually manipulate 2-3 coins at most... I see how it's different when you're transferring regularly and in bulk.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Beasters on July 07, 2013, 03:08 pm
You don't need to clean your transaction chain. Silk Road already uses a tumbler system that routes transactions through many addresses in order to mask the transactions. You can read about it in the Silk Road Wiki:

http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: tankhere on July 07, 2013, 03:18 pm
That tumbling happens only when you pay someone FROM your SR wallet, as I understand.

So I still don't find it a good idea to simply send your funds directly TO your SR from clearnet or any wallet.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: dolphy7835 on July 07, 2013, 03:23 pm
I use dawn dish soap personally. Nyak-nyak-nyak!
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Beasters on July 07, 2013, 03:27 pm
That tumbling happens only when you pay someone FROM your SR wallet, as I understand. So I still don't find it a good idea to simply send your funds directly TO your SR from clearnet or any wallet.
As far as I know it tumbles transactions going to and from your wallet.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 07, 2013, 04:35 pm
There are quite a few people on this forum pushing Bitcoin Fog. I wonder what their agenda is. Perhaps the owner of BF is a top 1% vendor and has set it all up to wash HIS coins (quite a difficult task, I would imagine). I would personally never use it because the 1-3% fee is ridiculous. What does BF do that blockchain.info's shared send doesn't? I know it's on 'clearnet' (not that I care) but their mixer is open source, so someone should be able to set it up on Tor (if it hasn't already been done) and charge a REASONABLE fee for the service.

;D  Blockchain's tumbler is very easy to detect where stuff is going.  You put in 200 bitcoins and it spits out 200 bitcoins instantly.  Bitcoin Fog is much different.  You put in 200 bitcoins and you decide how many come out after how long and to how many addresses.  It's easy to see on in the blockchain when  200 bitcoins go in and come right back out but with Bitcoin Fog no one would be able to track that shit.

You don't need to clean your transaction chain. Silk Road already uses a tumbler system that routes transactions through many addresses in order to mask the transactions. You can read about it in the Silk Road Wiki:

The SR tumbler is pretty shitty.  Remember the Casey Jones case?  Over a half a million coins went through one wallet address if I remember correctly.  That isn't very good tumbling in my opinion...  It should be using more new wallet addresses.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Beasters on July 07, 2013, 04:58 pm
The SR tumbler is pretty shitty.  Remember the Casey Jones case?  Over a half a million coins went through one wallet address if I remember correctly.  That isn't very good tumbling in my opinion...  It should be using more new wallet addresses.
I didn't realize the SR Tumbler was shitty. I have noticed it split my coins into many transactions and many addresses. I'm not familiar with the Casey Jones incident.
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 07, 2013, 05:02 pm
The SR tumbler is pretty shitty.  Remember the Casey Jones case?  Over a half a million coins went through one wallet address if I remember correctly.  That isn't very good tumbling in my opinion...  It should be using more new wallet addresses.
I didn't realize the SR Tumbler was shitty. I have noticed it split my coins into many transactions and many addresses. I'm not familiar with the Casey Jones incident.

Quote
There is one other transaction in the referenced account, for 17.24btc which entered 5/22/13 and is transferred out 5/28/13 - It moves through one intermediary account, is then combined into a block of 200btc and moves through an account that transacts only in 100 or 200btc blocks totaling 10,100btc.  Following any one of those 200btc blocks leads you to apparent “mixer” transactions, small amounts of value peeling off of the larger amount at each hop.    Taint analysis reveals that nearly 10% of those bitcoins eventually pass through an address responsible for transacting more than 419,000btc since 2012

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/53700133097/users-bitcoins-seized-by-dea
Title: Re: Cleaning coins?
Post by: Beasters on July 07, 2013, 05:15 pm
Quote
There is one other transaction in the referenced account, for 17.24btc which entered 5/22/13 and is transferred out 5/28/13 - It moves through one intermediary account, is then combined into a block of 200btc and moves through an account that transacts only in 100 or 200btc blocks totaling 10,100btc.  Following any one of those 200btc blocks leads you to apparent “mixer” transactions, small amounts of value peeling off of the larger amount at each hop. Taint analysis reveals that nearly 10% of those bitcoins eventually pass through an address responsible for transacting more than 419,000btc since 2012

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/post/53700133097/users-bitcoins-seized-by-dea
Wow. Thanks for letting me know.