Silk Road forums
Discussion => Legal => Topic started by: buckaroo0987 on September 05, 2013, 03:15 am
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There are plenty of items for sale on the SR that aren't really illegal (they can be used to do illegal things, but they also have legit uses).
So I'm curious if those sellers of legal items would run into problems just like the people selling drugs etc.
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I saw a listing for a grilled cheese sandwich recently. Lol. I'm pretty sure grilled cheeses are legal, but I think having any affiliation with SR or even Tor is illegal. Idk about Tor actually. I did read that any affiliation with SR, even if you're purchasing perfectly legal items, is illegal because you're working with DPR, basically funding him I guess from the fees that SR has.
Some one else posted a thread like this and that was one of the responses I can remember.
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Is it illegal to read these Forums, just for the DPR book club?
How about just having an account to do "research on current drug tastes", assuming you only look at the pretty pictures, and never order anything?
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Honestly?? I think so..
I don't know though so don't believe what i say.
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The Government of Earth allows this site so we are sedated and have no problem with them committing war crimes under the auspices of enforcing the illegal United Nations laws.
Party on Wayne!
Party on Garth!
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As a vendor and business owner who deals only in legal products, I have a few things to say on this topic:
I pay commission on my listings. Where does this money go? I don't know; some of it obviously supports the data, bandwidth and security and overall site function. What do other vendors pay? I don't know. What do the Directors at Amazon spend their revenue's on? Drug importation? I don't know.
Am funding illegal activity? No, I'm funding Silk Road's operators for their resources, escrow services and marketing benefits. Does the commission price generate profit after expenses are factored? Maybe maybe not. SR is not transparent with financial data, just like many fortune 500 companies.
Is my operation legal? Yes.
I pay for the services offered by SR, and think that having a team that weeds out illegal item listings would raise my expenses for these services (determining legality in many countries and regions would take extensive research).
You're a Canadian Law Enforcement Officer? G'day officer, I sell chemicals and nutritional compounds for research, here's my card.
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Yes, selling anything at all on SR is illegal. You are supporting an illegal black market by paying vendor bond and commission fees. The legality of your product or service is irrelevant.
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Am funding illegal activity? No, I'm funding Silk Road's operators for their resources, escrow services and marketing benefits...Is my operation legal? Yes.
Your bond and fees are directly funding the operating expenses of an illegal online marketplace.
You're a Canadian Law Enforcement Officer? G'day officer, I sell chemicals and nutritional compounds for research, here's my card.
If your products are legal, you should host a clearnet online store. Even then, offering chemicals under the guise of "research" does not protect you from legal action under an analogue act. Any legitimate chemical supplier will only deal with companies involved with research. Being affiliated with SR, primarily a source for individuals to acquire illicit substances, further adds suspicion to your operation.
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I do clearnet sales and custom orders/imports. What proof is there that any of the money I pay is contributed toward illicit activity? There is none. Buying a product from a money laundering front is a good example. How do you know what the balance sheets and ledgers say. If you buy from a business that has directors, execs or owners that get a cut of profit, and they buy firearms with it, how are you supposed to know. I pay for advertisement/marketing and hosted listings, as well as the escrow service, and many other enhancements the site has recently made (IE: Feedback re-vamp).
That is such a weak charge that I could defend myself with a lawyer that costs under $2K, and have him/her get me an absolute discharge.
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I do clearnet sales and custom orders/imports. What proof is there that any of the money I pay is contributed toward illicit activity? There is none. Buying a product from a money laundering front is a good example. How do you know what the balance sheets and ledgers say. If you buy from a business that has directors, execs or owners that get a cut of profit, and they buy firearms with it, how are you supposed to know. I pay for advertisement/marketing and hosted listings, as well as the escrow service, and many other enhancements the site has recently made (IE: Feedback re-vamp).
That is such a weak charge that I could defend myself with a lawyer that costs under $2K, and have him/her get me an absolute discharge.
This eludes to an interesting point.
And maybe I'm wrong about it, but my first question would be.... can it actually be proven anything illegal is being sold on the SR. And/or can it be proven anything at all is being sold?
Yes, we see pictures of illegal drugs and other items... but can it be proven that it's anything more than elaborate entertainment?
We're dealing with anonymous browsers, anonymous users, and anonymous money.
I know I've never bought anything here as far as anyone can prove. So how can LE prove this is anything more than elaborate hoax of a site?
Maybe I'm opening up a can of worms with this, but I think it's an interesting point.
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I do clearnet sales and custom orders/imports. What proof is there that any of the money I pay is contributed toward illicit activity? There is none. Buying a product from a money laundering front is a good example. How do you know what the balance sheets and ledgers say. If you buy from a business that has directors, execs or owners that get a cut of profit, and they buy firearms with it, how are you supposed to know. I pay for advertisement/marketing and hosted listings, as well as the escrow service, and many other enhancements the site has recently made (IE: Feedback re-vamp).
That is such a weak charge that I could defend myself with a lawyer that costs under $2K, and have him/her get me an absolute discharge.
This eludes to an interesting point.
And maybe I'm wrong about it, but my first question would be.... can it actually be proven anything illegal is being sold on the SR. And/or can it be proven anything at all is being sold?
Yes, we see pictures of illegal drugs and other items... but can it be proven that it's anything more than elaborate entertainment?
We're dealing with anonymous browsers, anonymous users, and anonymous money.
I know I've never bought anything here as far as anyone can prove. So how can LE prove this is anything more than elaborate hoax of a site?
Maybe I'm opening up a can of worms with this, but I think it's an interesting point.
Your on theI do clearnet sales and custom orders/imports. What proof is there that any of the money I pay is contributed toward illicit activity? There is none. Buying a product from a money laundering front is a good example. How do you know what the balance sheets and ledgers say. If you buy from a business that has directors, execs or owners that get a cut of profit, and they buy firearms with it, how are you supposed to know. I pay for advertisement/marketing and hosted listings, as well as the escrow service, and many other enhancements the site has recently made (IE: Feedback re-vamp).
That is such a weak charge that I could defend myself with a lawyer that costs under $2K, and have him/her get me an absolute discharge.
This eludes to an interesting point.
And maybe I'm wrong about it, but my first question would be.... can it actually be proven anything illegal is being sold on the SR. And/or can it be proven anything at all is being sold?
Yes, we see pictures of illegal drugs and other items... but can it be proven that it's anything more than elaborate entertainment?
We're dealing with anonymous browsers, anonymous users, and anonymous money.
I know I've never bought anything here as far as anyone can prove. So how can LE prove this is anything more than elaborate hoax of a site?
Maybe I'm opening up a can of worms with this, but I think it's an interesting point.
Buckaroo - you're on the right page. Anonymity and the uncertainty that inherently comes with it is a fuck ton of reasonable doubt; reasonable cause, whatever your country calls this wonderful protective 'clause' in criminal law.
People are simply paranoid and you think I operate a business like I do without thorough research of this. I didn't think what I wrote in 5 minutes, It's a collective statement of knowledge that I've learned from experience and acquaintances.
+1 for your intelligence lol.
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I do clearnet sales and custom orders/imports. What proof is there that any of the money I pay is contributed toward illicit activity? There is none. Buying a product from a money laundering front is a good example. How do you know what the balance sheets and ledgers say. If you buy from a business that has directors, execs or owners that get a cut of profit, and they buy firearms with it, how are you supposed to know. I pay for advertisement/marketing and hosted listings, as well as the escrow service, and many other enhancements the site has recently made (IE: Feedback re-vamp).
That is such a weak charge that I could defend myself with a lawyer that costs under $2K, and have him/her get me an absolute discharge.
Why do you not link to your clearnet site? Online payment processors do not charge anywhere near the ~10% fees of SR, so it doesn't make sense to open up shop here if you have a legitimate business established. There are far more potential clients Googling on the clearnet for "chemicals" than the very limited and niche market to which SR caters. Online advertising/marketing/SEO expenses can be amortized and claimed as tax deductions; that is no excuse.
Simply having the "SR vendor" tag attached to your username proves that you have a financial investment in an underground drug ring. The mountain of evidence you've provided here on the forums will have your budget-rate attorney shitting his Men's Warehouse slacks when faced with a team of federal and/or state prosecutors.
Paranoia is not a synonym for discretion. Wishing you luck, ND.
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I've sen some shady people around here, so I don't advertise my site publically on SR. Another reason being risking my vendor privileges for encouraging sale off SR when SR is used to gain the marketing reach that I wouldn't have without SR. Come to think of it, I'm not paying enough to cover the reach I get with SR.
Also, as mentioned in earlier posts, reasonable doubt is everywhere on Tor .onion sites. What a headache for law enforcement to arrest me and try me for my operation here. Would look great that they made an arrest on someone with questionable convictions and a lack of supporting evidence, when there are purported sellers of cocaine, meth, heroin and other substances. Afghan originating heroin can even be considered Proceedings of Crime for Terrorist Organizations or Activities. Canada or US, these crimes are the equivalent of treason in 16th Century England.
Lastly, I don't care about such gray areas of the law that are encountered by any business, and unavoidable. Sometimes you gotta say fuck it, stick to your ethics, your judgement, and set up shop. No smart business ever runs out of legal questions - if they do, they are not planning for the future adequately.
Cheers,
N. Direct
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I saw a listing for a grilled cheese sandwich recently. Lol. I'm pretty sure grilled cheeses are legal, but I think having any affiliation with SR or even Tor is illegal. Idk about Tor actually. I did read that any affiliation with SR, even if you're purchasing perfectly legal items, is illegal because you're working with DPR, basically funding him I guess from the fees that SR has.
Some one else posted a thread like this and that was one of the responses I can remember.
Correct. It's called "Conspiracy".
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Is it illegal to read these Forums, just for the DPR book club?
How about just having an account to do "research on current drug tastes", assuming you only look at the pretty pictures, and never order anything?
Nah, that wouldn't be illegal...or would it? Let's substitute the word "drug" with "child pornography". Would it be illegal then? I think it would be if "consumption" meant merely viewing, but that wouldn't be the case for drugs, would it? So, no, not illegal.
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I earn enough here in a few weeks to get a great lawyer to discharge any charges made against me regarding my operation on SR, since the prosecution would be so weak, I doubt it would stand by the first scheduled court appearance (which my lawyer would attend while I continue ith my business, or operate under contingent arrangements, should i need to deal with conditions set by the police when I sign my Promise to Appear to get bail). My local police wouldn't be making a smart move to arrest me, as I have used the wonderful medium of e-mail to voluntarily disclose my operation. I wil forever have proof of this communication, and it only enforces reasonable cause to make allegations about my operation being one that offends the Canadian Criminal Code.
If I was headquartered in the US, I would be a little more paranoid due to a very different legal system of "civic law" vs. Canada's (excl. Quebec's) "common law".
Civic Law is your department of Justice's firmly set consequences for convictions of certain offenses, which really show their absurdity when stacked to 1000 years of incarceration (scary for that to be the nation's definition of justice).
Common Law on the otherhand, aside from the relationship definition of 2 partners being considered mutually joint with regard to held assets, allows for a more progressive change n sentencing to take place. If a judge makes a ruling in a superior court for crimes that you committed either identical or very closely related (IE - an actual occurence - A Judge for the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that K-9's used in schools to alert for any possession of drugs in student lockers was an action that was unlawful by the police, who did the search by request of an East Coast high school principal. Drugs were found and the trial made national headlines after the conviction was never made, and a statement was released that the judge ruled, based on constitutional Canadian rights and the rights outlined in the Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, the accused was searched of his/her property based on no pretext that linked the student to be suspect of possession, and no warrant to search the allocated property of this individual (the locker) was granted before the K-9 highschool hallway patrol inspected the defendant's locker by canine alert by proximity.
Since then, it is now law in all of [English, lol] Canada (excl. Quebec - they like to be different, and didn't want to adopt the common law system of the British government. ), that a conviction cannot be made by random search of property without reasonable cause and a warrant to search an individual's property must be first attained to investigate with K-9s in schools. I feel that common law was an excellent and novel judicial system that has it's root's in (I believe, 17-18th century England, where courts were being abused by plaintiffs who would accuse a person of a crime, which required resources to investigate and try in court. Since the amendments were not being made fast enough to weed out common reports and accusations, some genius (non-sarcastic) decided that common law, shall be the law of His Majesty's estates and properties, and govern the state of England whilst allowing tribunals to effectively prosecute or discharge allegations proposed to the courts.
For the optimistic in a gray area, common law is a wonderful contemplation of judicial proceedings and a defendant accused of crimes can end up bettering the nation's judicial system instead of getting the reactive frictionless soap every day for 200 years. It is possible to be that low-friction bar of soap, and slip out of the tainted current state of laws, and leave a soft and shiny future for further victims of unjust accusations.
I would research US criminal law more and try to interpret and contrast it with Canadian law if it didn't piss me off so much to see the waste and absolute lack of intelligence in congress, the blindness to obvious waste of hard working American tax money locking up felons and toughening them up to be more of a threat to society after completing a sentence. I'm surprised there aren't more pissed of American's involved in domestic terrorism due to the government's absolute insolvency, lack of accountability, and manipulation of currency to keep the mess going.
To all you American vendors using BTC and evading taxes that fund absolute fucking idiots who control the creation of money, and the lazy conservative complacency that dominates even under the democrats, You fucking cut off their cash flow. My trust in the US dollar expires every morning when the markets start trading. Keep your bitcoins, and use them to change the US to a nation of prevailant libertarian ideology and practice. When wall street falls, as Roger Water's so vivdly predicted in the psychedelic Musical Classic "The Wall" (lol), it'll be the forward thinking people like most who read this that will rule the country. It's not simple but fuck, I hate US law and the levels of corruption that make the corruption up in Canada smell slightly better than a clear flowing piss after a 5 mile run in contrast.
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Is it illegal to read these Forums, just for the DPR book club?
How about just having an account to do "research on current drug tastes", assuming you only look at the pretty pictures, and never order anything?
While laws can differ between countries, I somewhat suspect these forums should be 100% legal and covered by freedom of speech. There's no business going on here.
Looking at pictures of drugs is also not illegal so I see no reason why having an SR account would be illegal. It's not going to help your political career, but not illegal.
I also see no way to prosecute anyone who buys a banned book (that is not banned in their country) or grilled cheese sandwich on SR. If I'm somehow aware the local McDonalds is selling cocaine behind the counter and yet I buy their happy meal anyway, what would the charge be?
I do wonder about selling. Selling something on SR would in itself not be illegal. If I want to sell orange juice on the Silk Road, that's my damn business. The commission however might be considered funding a criminal organization. In this case, selling something on SR would be just as illegal as making a donation to SR.
The sale itself should be OK if you didn't have to pay commision. I do doubt anyone would ever be prosecuted purely on this basis, but you never know. I think it would give LE and lawyers a headache, because to what degree could an individual be expected to be aware the commision could be funding for a criminal organization? Paying commission on marketplaces is very common.