Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: Holland_SR on November 01, 2011, 01:15 pm
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Hi guys,
We have been sending ever more weed in the past month. At some point we had the top three of bestselling listings in weed. Now that's nice of course.
But it comes with some problems. I am getting people going into the resolution center claiming they didn't receive it. Now of course for some that will be the case. But there are others where I feel they are just trying to wriggle out of paying $10-$100 or so. And it is starting to take a lot of time to keep track of it, the resolution center is not very easy to handle. Also, these small time scammers start to mess up the feedback, where large orders with 100 times the quantity always pass without problems.
A question before I revise my policy..
How is non-arrival normally handled by Silk Road resolution?
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Silk Road considers sending a shared risk, which implies 50% refund. But they would expect to see a sending confirmation, I think those are a bad idea and reduce the success rate and increase seller-risk. I am happy to take on more risk, but only if the buyer reputation warrants it.
Would you buy from a reputable seller if it meant taking a loss in case of non arrival?
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Thanks,
Holland
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Personally I am very cautious about ordering anything from here, coming internationally. The rule of thumb is start small as a "test run". However, in the unlikely situation that a very large order or package gets lost, stolen, or simply scammed (yes this is still a very small potential too) I think it's in the best interest of the seller to resume more than 50%. Why? Because the buyer can't help you package your goods to ensure it is delivered to them. The most we can do is ensure that we PGP encrypt sensitive information, and pay you what you're owed, and then we, as the buyer, can only sit here and wait and pray.
If the package doesn't arrive, how much of that is our fault? Zero. How much of the fault is the seller? Depending on what happened, the type of shipping that was involved etc, the seller does have at least some sort of fault here. Given how that weighs out, in most cases of "lost or stolen goods" the responsibility obviously lies in the uncontrollable variable with is the shipping process itself, but in no way shape or form does the buyer have any sort of control in this process, whereas the seller is the one who packages the goods to be shipped.
This is from a buyer's perspective anyways, and I always want to be extra careful. I'd hate to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over something I couldn't control or precautiously prepare myself.
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Thanks, you've sure got a point there.
But there is the feedback for the buyer to judge when it comes to sending and packaging. If a buyer thinks there is even the smallest chance the seller doesn't send, or sends dangerously, he shouldn't buy.
And the rest of the success rate depends on the buyer's location and honesty. Finland seem a little harder than say the UK, France etc. where for me it is about 100% success.
It is just very obvious that the 1g's get a larger percentage fake claims and feedback trouble than larger orders, I am probably leaving myself open to that because I don't use tracking. And when I am easy on resending or refunding it will only get worse.
Would you use send/receive confirmations and tracking? I wouldn't know of any way to remain anonymous doing that. Short of including a gps/gsm device in the package as smugglers do in large shipments, dodgier stuff ; )
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I absolutely agree, if the buyer gives a ridiculous address or puts a retarded name like Spongebob Squarepants then yes at that point I would chalk it up to 100% the buyer's fault and wouldn't even issue any sort of refund or reshipment.
My only points hold true if the buyer does their part of the deal properly and accordingly as mentioned. Personally I always check all feedback and contact all sellers prior to. It truly is unfortunate that anyone could potentially be abusing small transactions in order to gain any sort of edge over competition. This is just dirty and cheap tactics if it is happening. Honestly I think you're doing it right, I wouldn't take the extra time and money to put tracking on low budget gram transactions etc, but for the large orders you bet your ass that you should get a tracking number from whatever shipping company you use. Given the anonymity of how these operations work, it's really hard to determine a lot of uncontrollable variables, the best we can do is tracking numbers on potential skeptical transactions, and spending enough time getting to know your buyer/seller to "feel out" whether or not things are going to be so-called sketchy.
I feel for you sellers because I do see some of you receiving less than stellar feedback ratings from a sour transaction despite that buyer receiving a full refund or full reshipment or something extremely petty about something the buyer disliked about the packaging like using white paper instead of black to conceal something (I'm just making up a random example) but just remember for every bad apple there's much more honest and legit buyers who truly appreciate the way you guys handle yourselves and the way that you guys take care of us. Remember us when trying to counter these abusers.
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I would surely love to get a DCN # much like many reputable US sellers provide, especially when I'm spending a large amount of money.
I've bought from Holland many times, and will continue to because every transaction have been perfect.
But from a buyer's point of view, I think you should at least provide DCN's for orders of one ounce and above.
This will sort things for you, the buyer and SR
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Such a tough balance to get right. Reducing the rights of buyers to increase the rights of sellers is great because it will slow or cease the curb of buyers who say they didn't receive a product when they actually did receive it. Then there is the flip side, where selective scamming sellers will say the shipped the product when they didn't, and the buyer will be left with nothing. The ideal solution would be to increase the rights of good honest sellers, and decrease the rights of rip-off buyers... knowing who is who.. well if there is some formula that can be worked out.... Like I said, "tough balance" to work it out... but a good conversation to be having.
To answer your question directly, yes I would buy from a reputable seller if it meant taking a loss on a non-arrival.
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In a way Silk Road can be trust based more than say eBay. For me the profit is not in a one off sale, rather in the repeat business. It makes no sense not to send for me as a repeat buyer is worth a more than any single order.
The 1g's are a bit of a pain as I consider them samples, there is no profit coming from those if you consider the product, packaging, posting etc. But the 1g's are the main risk, some guy that claims to not have had it can give me a low feedback because I only refunded 90%! In the feedback they count as much as a 50x larger listing that generally goes off without a hitch...
Maybe I should make the smallest order a bit bigger, like 3g, and make the cash spent on it a discount on a next large order..
How does Silk Road handle resolutions? Never had one yet..
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In my mind, Holland, you are one of the best weed vendors on here. I'd be all for a min order of 3g as long as it doesn't affect your great prices too much :)
To be honest I never buy less than about 5g weed anyway.
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MrRibena +1
Holland_SR,
I would be interested in any written rules or procedures, so I can post them in the Missing package FAQ.
I have been through resolution, twice so far.
I would think vendors perceive it's bias towards the buyer.
The buyer of course realizing he risks 50% might think not.
I received %100 refund because of no DCN, and good buyers background.
The vendor's records were flawless, and after I was done I understood why.
I have since done business with these vendors that more than make up the loss.
Basically the SR admin guide and encourage you to resolution.
I think it's 15 days from "in transit" that triggers the resolution button.
Not sure what the timing is if nothing changes in status while "in processing"
If you are seeing a higher rate on 1 gram purchases, which makes no sense except scamming, then screw em.
Stop the 1gm selling. You have made your rep. No sense wasting time and money.
Please read my FAQ, and see if that helps, or if you would like to add something.
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3901.0
We all agree there are scammers on both sides, and we need to protect each other.
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Well, I had one genius that finalized early because he had to, but did that with 3/5.. aarrgh. As if 3 is some kind of neutral.
There are a lot of first-time buyers here that should understand that sending is a shared risk when both sides have done their best. A lot of buyers come from the 'ebay' kind of sites where you should get a full refund if it doesn't arrive. But this is a different kind of trade, the postman likes to smoke as well and there is no recourse.
And even though I would happily pay for the very few packages that don't make it for real, if I am easy in refunding there is the moral hazard problem that will make me more and more popular with scammers. That is what I have been battling this week and what forced me to get a bit more strict. But I prefer to be more strict than more expensive.
I am testing some changes in the 'terms and conditions'.. Reculer pour mieux sauter! (take a few steps back to jump further!)
My goal is to find the right method where I can take all the risk of sending, but I am not there yet.
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Holland, you already have a good reputation on SR.
If I were you, I'd stop selling 1g samples and just go with 3.5/7/14/28/56 grams
Early finalization required for buyers with less than 3-5 transactions or more than 20-25% refund rate.
This should help you with part of the problem.
But still not providing DCN for large orders is risky imo.
Hopefully you'll figure out something soon man
Keep up the good work brotha :)
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Well there are ways to get tracking without showing my face in a post office. So that looks like it will work.
But getting tracking without a receiver signature is still not easy. I found one way where the postman at the destination can do it too, so that is better. Would you buy with tracking if it meant you had to sign for it?
Another thing, have people done larger quantities by drop-off? That has become a lot easier with everyone having a gps. We could drop-off 'larger' quantities for pick up by the buyer. Bit of getting used to but it should be possible to do risk free. James Bond fun.. for European mainland buyers
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I think there should be a limit on how many transactions you can send to resolution or cancel per week. Also there should be a certain limit on feedback scores of 1 and 5 maybe per day.
This would prevent some of the serial scammers, as well as many of the asshole vendors that try to kick other vendors in the teeth through shitty feedback.
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Would you buy with tracking if it meant you had to sign for it?
Looking at your shipping skillz I think I would ;)
Except if it goes through more inspections than a regular package. Any ideas about it?
Is there such a thing as controlled delivery in Europe?
I have nothing to back this up but I think having a package delivered with or without a signature is the same shit in EU (well maybe just in my country..)
You get a call from the cops and are required to go to the police station.
Right?