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Discussion => Off topic => Topic started by: Nuggz on January 16, 2013, 01:25 pm

Title: Why SETI doesn't stand a chance!
Post by: Nuggz on January 16, 2013, 01:25 pm
I always loved the concept of the SETI project. I even contributed computing power to it for a while. Now I'm wondering if they may be on a fools errand.

In considering the likelihood of finding radio transmissions from another world there are a few variables to take in to account such as how many intelligent civilizations could have evolved given the uber-trillions of possible worlds, and how long such civilizations survive.

In the back of my brain I thought maybe SETI would have a decent shot at finding something since there could be civilizations that have existed for millions of years, beaming out their radio signals all the while.

But that's not what's happening here. We've been broadcasting commercial radio since 1920. My guess is that by 2020 there may be no modulating transmissions at all. Almost everything is digital now, including the TV stations.

Even if we were to intercept a single stream of what we thought might be a digital transmission I find it unlikely that a tightly compressed stream of 1's and 0's could maintain cohesion over very long distances. Even though space is considered empty (we can talk about dark matter another time) you are still going to run into the occasional hydrogen atom.

Complicate the matter with broadband. Complicate it even more as broadcast networks and the internet  increasingly encrypt their traffic. All you have is a whole hell of a lot of indecipherable noise.

So not only would SETI have to be lucky enough to point at one of the trillions of likely candidates, it would have to be pointed there during that infinitesimally small 100 year period of modulated transmissions.

I can't even imagine the math on that. (Although I know there are some in here who can)

The other side of this coin is that the universe could be teaming with communication that we can't decipher any more that your dog could decipher your PGP letter. 

THATS IT! The universe is talking behind our backs using PGP!

Thanks SR. I used to get stoned and think about pretty buds.xu
Title: Re: Why SETI doesn't stand a chance!
Post by: DiamondSky on January 16, 2013, 10:01 pm
SETI isn't really looking to talk to the aliens or even understand what they say so much as they want to pick up a transmission pattern that would not normally be created naturally. To put it another way, a SETI project on another planet that happens to look at Earth wouldn't need to know that a transmission was Wi-Fi, FM, Microwave, etc. just that the configuration of the transmission was not a naturally occurring phenomenon.

It's not the Search to UNDERSTAND Extraterrestrial Intelligence... just the search for the existence of it.

Now of course if we find life out there of course we would eventually want to understand all the great stuff they are saying is and what their Thursday night prime time line up looks like but first we need to know they are there and that's all SETI is looking for.
Title: Re: Why SETI doesn't stand a chance!
Post by: ch0sen on January 16, 2013, 11:22 pm
What if there are aliens and they have an entirely different way of communicating over long distances.  What if Tesla was right and the whole "crackpot" science things and longitudinal waves and the aether are right?  Meyl and Dollard are both showing that Tesla was right and are making amazing discoveries.  If that is the case then SETI is never gonna find anything. 
Title: Re: Why SETI doesn't stand a chance!
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on January 17, 2013, 12:24 am
Do you remember pulsars in astrophysics? I remember my teacher saying they were first called LGMs or something (Little Green Men). Because there EM radiation was so regular (on,off,on,off at precise intervals) that they were mistaken at first for a possible sign of alien life on another planet.
I think I've I remembered this correctly?
Title: Re: Why SETI doesn't stand a chance!
Post by: Nuggz on January 17, 2013, 07:03 am
It is entirely conceivable that, were we do discover a signal, the sending intelligence could be long since dead. No way to ever set up a meaningful line of communication. Assuming we really are constrained by the speed of light. There are some interesting possibilities there as well.

I was referring to finding existence of intelligence. My point was simply that the nature of our transmissions have changed away from modulated signals, which would be distinguishable, to digital broadband encripted noise, which may be indistinguishable from other noise. The pulsar mentioned is very distinguishable.

If other intelligences were to roughly mimic our timeline of advances then after 100 years their signals might just disappear into random noise, such as ours have, thus reducing the possibility of discovery dramatically.