Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: fruity on April 21, 2012, 06:11 pm
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Ive looked over this forum a bit but cant find any threads on how to safely use benzo's, so decided to start one.
As I understand it, each benzo has a different half-life and strength. The strength is defined as a mg equivalence to 10mg of diazepam.
Also, if only taking diazepam then its ok to consume it daily for 2 weeks (or possibly 3), after which point dependence starts to develop. Then the user should take at least a 3 week break from all benzos. This is because in some cases, due to the long half-life of diazepam, withdrawal symptoms can take upto 3 weeks to develop. If 3 weeks pass without experiencing any withdrawal symptoms, then its ok to start taking them again.
I was wondering how this information scales across other hypnotics. For instance with conazepam, where 0.5mg = 10mg diazepam but with a significantly shorter half-life. In this case the half-lifes are (quoting wikipedia) 20-100 hours for diazepam compared to 18-50 hours for clonazepam.
So would I be right in assuming that benzo withdrawal symptoms if taking clonazepam would set-in within 1.5 weeks after stopping taking it, or would it still be 3 weeks? I would assume that dependence would always take the same time to develop.
Or does anyone have a good link where this information for a number of different hypnotics is? Ive come across a number of sites that only discuss diazepam.
Thanks.
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I was addicted to Valium for well over 2 years (70-100mg/day)
It was bad and my life sucked while on it. It was even harder and longer to come off because of the aforementioned long half life.
Anyway, Your idea of taking diazepam for 2 weeks on 3 weeks off sounds like it will be safe if followed stringently (assuming you don't exceed 10mg/day). If you find yourself abusing your set limits, this is a good sign that you are developing a problem, and you should stop immediately.
Now for an explanation on half lives. As you probably know, things like alprazolam (Xanax) and lorazepam (Ativan) have very short half lives, which mean that they will have minimal residual effects or hangovers. The consequence of this is higher levels of cravings for the shorter-acting drugs, and also more intense, but shorter withdrawals. As for the med-long half life drugs like clonazepam and diazepam, after a high dose, you can feel the effects (though not nearly as intense) for up to days after. I really struggled with Valium addiction because the withdrawal was a slow, dragged on process, which never seemed to get better. I would have preferred a more intense, shorter withdrawal, but at my dose that would've been very very dangerous.
As I said, keep to your schedule and don't abuse your plan or you will begin to slide down a slippery slope. Also consider taking a couple of days of a week in addition to your said schedule.
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Very informative post, thanks!
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I was addicted to Valium for well over 2 years (70-100mg/day)
It was bad and my life sucked while on it. It was even harder and longer to come off because of the aforementioned long half life.
Well done kicking the habit, I hear that its harder than an opioid dependence to come off. If a Doctor put you on this, it seems very irresponsible as they are supposed to move you onto a short half-life benzo for long term use.
Now for an explanation on half lives. As you probably know, things like alprazolam (Xanax) and lorazepam (Ativan) have very short half lives, which mean that they will have minimal residual effects or hangovers. The consequence of this is higher levels of cravings for the shorter-acting drugs, and also more intense, but shorter withdrawals. As for the med-long half life drugs like clonazepam and diazepam, after a high dose, you can feel the effects (though not nearly as intense) for up to days after. I really struggled with Valium addiction because the withdrawal was a slow, dragged on process, which never seemed to get better. I would have preferred a more intense, shorter withdrawal, but at my dose that would've been very very dangerous.
Thanks for the information, very much appreciated. So if we consider alprazolam, what would be a recommended duration to let it completely leave the body. 1 week?
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I was using Xanax as prescribed by a psychiatrist on and off for 2-3 years. At first it was to help me get to sleep (1)
I'm the "Type a' personality where I'm always on the go, and couldn't 'shut my brain off' when it was time to go sleep.
Initially the Xanax helped (1Mg) before bedtime (1), but then I found myself going right to sleep, but then waking up around 1:30AM and unable to go back to sleep and get a full night's rest. I would just sort of toss and turn not really getting REM sleep untill I had to wake up at 6AM for work..
I stopped the dose prior to going to bed, and kept a pill on the night stand and would take it when I woke up just a few hours after going to bed.
It worked for a little while, but I found myself with real bad short-term memory loss, which was real bad in my working life.
I decided to stop the Xanax cold-turkey. That was a bitch, and for approximately 2 weeks I only slept about 2-1/2 hours at the most; from the time I went to bed to approximate;y 2-1/2 hours after. I just stayed in bed hoping to go back to sleep but never did, until the alarm clock went off.
That two weeks was hell! Now, I usually go to sleep in a regular period of time, but I will wake up no matter what at 5:30AM. I guess it's just the way my brain is wired. I'll wake up if an ant farts in the bedroom!
Long story short, Xanax worked great for what it was intended but the memory loss was a =BIG= side affect in my working life, so I decided to stop the daily use, and only use it on a Friday or Saturday night occasionally.
I don't know if this helped anyone, but thought I'd share since I saw the thread.
And as a side note, ANY alcohol made me time travel (I would NEVER remember anything from the time I drank a few beers until the next morning. Absolutely NOTHING!)
It's a good drug for what it's designed, but I didn't like the memory loss side effects,
I hope this helps. I sort of went off on a tangent there...
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A good friend had a xanax addiction. The weird thing is that she wouldnt take them long enough to get physically addicted, she would literally go through a bottle of 90-120 2mg xanax in a couple, three days. When you take that high of a dose, it does the exact opposite of what its intended. She was wire up, did things that she would normally never do (she shoplifed a flower, lol) she would have absolutley no memory of what she did or where she had been. Shes damned lucky that she never got into an accident and killed someone.
When she ran out, she was fine til she got more.. So, she never went thru physical wd's. Like i said, everytime she would binge, she would shop, etc. shoplift. she was arrested several times and went to jail and had to complete an addiction type program. I honestly believe this saved her life. To this day, she cannot take any type of benzo because she FINALLY knows that she just cant take the chance. It took years and finally jail time for her to realize that she had a problem. Her friends and family just couldn't get through to her..
Even today, she will sometimes take a sleeping pill and even though they are not technically a benzo, they are very close structurely. I honestly believe that during the years that she abused the xanax (since she took so many) People will think that she took a benzo, so someone else has to control the sleeping pills for her..
I personally was physically dependent on benzos, i never abused them, the doctor had me on such a high dose, that when i decided i wanted off it took well over 6 months of taper, actually closer to a year and even after stopping my legs would kick and mentally i felt like shit for about a year.. So, it took me almost 2 years to be finally physically/mentally free from benzos.. Now, I still take them, but at much much lower doses. (Not the 14mg of daily xanax that i used to be on) I never take more than 2m\g of xanax a day and after a week i always take a few days off. I feel that i could do a small taper and be free in a month or so and be totally fine..
Yes, to the question about benzos being more difficult than opiates. While they are technically totally different animals, I would take a opiate wd, etc 10x before going through a benzo wd.. opiate wd/s are much more intense but much shorter acting. (everyones different, but thats the usual consensus)...
Always be careful with those benzos, it can be a very slippery slope..
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I haven't used Xanax for very long or even in amounts over .5 mg so I wouldn't know dependence of any benzo though (people will probably disagree with me) filling in the gap with other drugs like cannabis may help reduce cravings.
I think replacing a possible habit with a less harmful one would be better and maybe more enjoyable eg. cravings for benzo:smoking weed everyday.
However I know its not as simple as that but before becoming dependent, consider cutting dosage down and filling that void up with something else.
I personally don't enjoy benzo relaxation as much as the reduced anxiety effects (which is why I use it in the first place).
@frogger, you should try cannabis as a sleep aid - it always helps me.
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i only use xanax if i can't sleep or if i have a shitty comedown, it knocks me out
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>>{Cut}>>
@frogger, you should try cannabis as a sleep aid - it always helps me.
--==Yes, you're absolutely right.==--
In the past I had jobs where I was subjected to random drug tests, that's why I went to the psychiatrist [legal] route of things. Before I had that job, I would wake up, as I wrote, shortly after going to sleep, and would go hit the water pipe 2 or 3 times, and then go back to bed 'till the alarm went off.
I am in a stable job now and I'm definitely looking at going green again (Can you shoot me a PM {I don't know if PMs are available thru the forums...?} I've got some questions about what to get).
Thanks (Sorry to hijack the thread)
Frogger
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I take the lowest amount possible when taking benzos and I wait a few days before taking another. I also mark when I took it on a calendar so that I can keep track of my consumption.
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frogger, you want and indica strain preferably with high cbd (but this is not an easily determinable characteristic)
sativas are generally more stimulating and creative alert high considered most suited for daytime and activities
indicas are characterized by a strong relaxing body component and less heady buzz, often very sedating and good for evening
also, to send a pm just click on the users name adjacent to their post. on this screen there is an option to send a pm or view posts, etc
if you have questions, feel free to message me
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benzos are great to come down and get some sleep after stimulants have been taken.
but you also should be carefull. My GF dipped accidentally a lot of phenacepam...(half life ~60 hours)
she can't remember what happened for more than a week and i had to babysit her for the whole time :-(
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cycle 4 weeks on ATLEAST 2 off do 3. I was very addicted to benzos to the point where i was crushing 6 tabs nightly just to get sleep every single night, i was seeing 4 different doctors monthly to get enough pills. As for hypnotic states yeh i saw and did some crazy on even stillnox. Anyway if you have a addictive personality please be careful dude.. xanax is great for coming down but if your using to fix something in your life, be careful.
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There is no way to safely use xanax. Xanax is the leeches, the calomel, the bloodletting, the prefrontal lobotomy, the electroshock therapy of our time. To take a physiologically destructive, mind-numbing drug because you can't sleep, or on the recommendation of a doctor whose income depends on prescribing you such drugs and downplaying the side-effects, seems like a terrible waste of life, especially considering that the 'symptoms' it targets are themselves results of inadequate nutrition and excessive exposure to toxins.
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@ tryptamine
you probably have had your expiriences with xanax. but not everyone respondes the same way.
i now some people who take their benzos for some time because they have their problems and it helps them...they do not like to take benzos
but still as you say benzos taken just to be not to be in reality is a waste of ones lifetime
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listen to Tryptamine :) although my opinion is biased
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@ tryptamine
you probably have had your expiriences with xanax. but not everyone respondes the same way.
I tried it a while back, in the spirit of experiencing everything once. Never again. Xanax taught me the meaning of the saying "A mind is a terrible thing to waste".
i now some people who take their benzos for some time because they have their problems and it helps them...they do not like to take benzos
Did it fix their problems? Did they take it a few times and then become well-adjusted, mindful, autotelic individuals? Or did they keep taking it, blunting their cognitive facilities to forget their 'anxiety', claiming it's the 'only thing that helps them' and that they have a 'legitimate need'? I've only ever seen the latter; your mileage may vary.