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Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: painbow on November 28, 2012, 04:17 am

Title: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: painbow on November 28, 2012, 04:17 am
I'm currently using ketamine to fight my depression.  It's only been couple months and it's been working well so far.

I don't have a strict regimen or dosing, I just kind of eyeball it and snort it whenever I feel like my depression is seeping back in.

I'd like to know if there are anyone out there who's used ketamine as an antidepressant and how it worked out for them in short and long-term and what their regimen was.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Christy Nugs on November 28, 2012, 07:07 am
why dont u just buy some b-12 , b3, alpha lipoic acid 1200 mg per day and some lithium orotate.
that would work better and cost less.
dont be scared by the lithiun its 5mg and over the counter.
wtf is depresion? i take it and dont have any!!
keeps the pms away - but i doubt u needed to know that lol  :P

what that combo does is return ur brain chemistry to normal whatever the fuck that is  :)
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: ilovesrdrugs on November 28, 2012, 07:13 am
How much K do you find yourself needing for depression I have considered this route since SSRI's suck dick and I won't touch them
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Boulder on November 28, 2012, 07:16 am
Haha You're a funny fellow Christy. I've used Methoxetamine for depression, and it has worked wonders I was completely I'm not sure if I can even find a word to describe what I was lol.
I am not depressed anymore to say the least, I am not who I was before I was depressed (in a sense as we all change some in do time)
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Ramadasa1 on November 28, 2012, 08:03 am
didn't work for me but it was fun! The best remedy I have found is daily (or at least every other day) exercise (any movement to get the juices flowin) and good healthy eating and maybe some supplemental vitamins and minerals to be sure you're getting what you need. just feeling like im taking care of myself by doing these things, let alone the physical benefits, makes me feel good, which reenforces the process. I have heard of studies in Houston, Tx testing the effects of ketamine as an anti depressant (actually the day after I first tried it I heard that on the radio, NPR i believe). for some certainly an extra dose of something is needed. for me though i feel like a daily dose of the chemicals released during a run, or swim really have an immediate and a cumulative effect that i think raises my base line happiness level over time. its getting over the hump that's the hard part but once the clarity from movement and good eating has been experienced its obvious how important and helpful it is.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Gary Oak on November 28, 2012, 08:27 am
I usually hole at least once a week to an album of my choice and occasionally toss some in with whatever other psychedelic I'm on every so often and it doesn't so much as get rid of my negative emotions but rather gives me a different outlook and motivation to kick ass for the rest of the week so I can explore my mind once again a few days later. It does leave an absolutely wonderful afterglow though which helps. :D

Just make sure to take a break from it every once in awhile, it has the potential to be habit forming without a doubt so make each time count by turning it into a ritual or form of meditation to really sort your shit out on it. I like to sort of plot my mind out on it like it was on a storyboard and piece my memories back together to get a different perspective on my life.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: nitpi950 on November 28, 2012, 08:59 am
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=59798.0
I knew I remembered a relevant thread. All it took was a search for "ketamine anti-depressant"
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Catgoesmeow on November 28, 2012, 05:51 pm
I'm currently using ketamine to fight my depression.  It's only been couple months and it's been working well so far.

I don't have a strict regimen or dosing, I just kind of eyeball it and snort it whenever I feel like my depression is seeping back in.

I'd like to know if there are anyone out there who's used ketamine as an antidepressant and how it worked out for them in short and long-term and what their regimen was.

Thanks.

Do you think drugs could be the source of your depression?
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: The Mustard Walrus on November 28, 2012, 06:29 pm
I've read about K as an anti-depressant and I think it's very interesting. Supposedly it helps restore neural pathways involving a brain compound called glutamate, I believe, which may be responsible for its anti-depressant characteristics.

I don't really suffer from depression myself (excepting the occasional grumpy mood), but I have been using K in small doses (~50mg) for the past month about once or twice a week, and I can tell you that I have felt somehow more resistant to bad moods in between K doses. It seems in the past month I've had a greater ability to ignore negative thoughts and feelings. I tend not to dwell on things lately. I simply move forward from life's little issues without letting them bother me. I suppose this could be attributed to the K.

I know some people experience come-downs involving depression with MDMA, but actually, I have found that MDMA is a great anti-depressant for me as well, long after I come down. I have never experienced depression post-MDMA. On the contrary, I find it renews my positive outlook on life for a good long time. I have been a happier and more positive person in the past 2 years since using MDMA...
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: nuyt on November 28, 2012, 08:08 pm
I usually hole at least once a week to an album of my choice and occasionally toss some in with whatever other psychedelic I'm on every so often and it doesn't so much as get rid of my negative emotions but rather gives me a different outlook and motivation to kick ass for the rest of the week so I can explore my mind once again a few days later. It does leave an absolutely wonderful afterglow though which helps. :D

Just make sure to take a break from it every once in awhile, it has the potential to be habit forming without a doubt so make each time count by turning it into a ritual or form of meditation to really sort your shit out on it. I like to sort of plot my mind out on it like it was on a storyboard and piece my memories back together to get a different perspective on my life.

OK, this is definitely something I should try out for myself.

I've only done ket once, a very small amount, so it's pretty new to me. Is there anything important to know? Like should I stick with the s isomer stuff I see listed? Also could anyone estimate for me what a typical dosing regimen might be?
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: AnonymousAddict on November 28, 2012, 10:59 pm
Could someone please Kindly explain to me how doing Ket makes you feel? I was giving a Gram of it as a sample from a order i made with some one and i have yet to try it.. Simply because i dont know how to tell if its real or BS. It's in a crystal like form . How would i do it? Please explain
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: oxymd on November 28, 2012, 11:30 pm
I inadvertently discovered Ketamine could treat my depression.  I bought some for recreational use, and the very next day I found my moderate to severe depression of 10+ years was utterly obliterated.  It felt as though it had completely rewired my brain in a way that changed my thought processes -- the depressive thought patterns I had experienced for years were just gone.  It still blows my mind that it's possible to feel *this* good on a daily basis without any drugs.  Ketamine has been an absolute miracle drug for me, and I hope to see it FDA approved so others can (legally) experience this kind of relief.

Answers to common questions I've been asked:
 - I used racemic Ketamine (I haven't found any literature examining the roles of each isomer for depression relief.  For all I know Ketamine's antidepressant activity could be conferred by the R-isomer, although I think this is unlikely.  In clinical trials they administered racemic, so that's what I'm sticking to).

 - I started with an initial dose of 50 mg IM, and upped it to 100 mg IM for the next several doses.  Studies seem to indicate depression relief can be achieved at much lower doses (even subpsychoactive doses), but I was using it recreationally sooo...I have no interest in lower dosages.

 - How it works*:  Ketamine, an NMDA receptor antagonist, seems to cause an immediate and rapid increase in "synaptic plasticity."  This is a fancy term for making new connections -- how we form memories, associations, etc.  It seems as though antagonizing the NMDA receptor causes an increase in a certain downstream protein called BDNF (brain derived neurotrophic factor).   Low levels of BDNF are associated with stress and depression, and eventually lead to degeneration of vital connections in the hippocampus (your memory center).  BDNF has been shown to play a key role in promoting synaptic plasticity (new connections) and is likely the mechanism by which Ketamine reverses depression.

 - Placebo effect?  Something I found impressive -- one study showed depression relief in a large percentage of those administered Ketamine, while none (0%) of those administered placebo reported any relief.  Interesting that there was no placebo effect at all.  I found this study after I had tried Ketamine as I figured any depression relief I would experience would just be a placebo effect because I had heard about the clinical trials.  A placebo effect is most certainly not the case for me.

*From what I have gathered from a quick review of the primary literature and what I can remember from my medical school neuroscience course.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: whatsupwiththat on November 28, 2012, 11:55 pm
I took MXE or DXE.  Forgive me, I am not exactly sure what the correct letters are but I was told it was similar to or had properties of Ketamine.  It was an intense fun psychedelic experience and the next day I felt better than I had in years.  I have a tendency toward depression so this joyfulness was amazing and it lasted several days.  I attributed this turn around in my depression at the time to the Ketamine or Ketamine-like qualities of what I took.

I have since learned that Ketamine is very effective in the treatment of migraine headaches, another problem I suffer from.  I am definitely very interested in getting me some Ketamine!!!

Thanks for the info folks!
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: sunny1 on November 29, 2012, 01:06 am
I started taking it in small doses, about 25 mg and it does the job. Within 8 hours or so i feel a noticeable difference. It lasts for days and days too.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: nuyt on November 29, 2012, 02:39 am
I inadvertently discovered Ketamine could treat my depression.  I bought some for recreational use, and the very next day I found my moderate to severe depression of 10+ years was utterly obliterated.  It felt as though it had completely rewired my brain in a way that changed my thought processes -- the depressive thought patterns I had experienced for years were just gone.  It still blows my mind that it's possible to feel *this* good on a daily basis without any drugs.  Ketamine has been an absolute miracle drug for me, and I hope to see it FDA approved so others can (legally) experience this kind of relief.

Answers to common questions I've been asked:
 - I used racemic Ketamine (I haven't found any literature examining the roles of each isomer for depression relief.  For all I know Ketamine's antidepressant activity could be conferred by the R-isomer, although I think this is unlikely.  In clinical trials they administered racemic, so that's what I'm sticking to).

 - I started with an initial dose of 50 mg IM, and upped it to 100 mg IM for the next several doses.  Studies seem to indicate depression relief can be achieved at much lower doses (even subpsychoactive doses), but I was using it recreationally sooo...I have no interest in lower dosages.

 - How it works*:  Ketamine, an NMDA receptor antagonist, seems to cause an immediate and rapid increase in "synaptic plasticity."  This is a fancy term for making new connections -- how we form memories, associations, etc.  It seems as though antagonizing the NMDA receptor causes an increase in a certain downstream protein called BDNF (brain derived neurotrophic factor).   Low levels of BDNF are associated with stress and depression, and eventually lead to degeneration of vital connections in the hippocampus (your memory center).  BDNF has been shown to play a key role in promoting synaptic plasticity (new connections) and is likely the mechanism by which Ketamine reverses depression.

 - Placebo effect?  Something I found impressive -- one study showed depression relief in a large percentage of those administered Ketamine, while none (0%) of those administered placebo reported any relief.  Interesting that there was no placebo effect at all.  I found this study after I had tried Ketamine as I figured any depression relief I would experience would just be a placebo effect because I had heard about the clinical trials.  A placebo effect is most certainly not the case for me.

*From what I have gathered from a quick review of the primary literature and what I can remember from my medical school neuroscience course.

Wow. Don't want to get my expectations too high, but this sounds like exactly what I need.

So racemic did it for you? I was all set to order s-isomer, as the other anectdotal reports I've read on sr pointed to it as the preferred choice to treat depression. Also, I don't really want to IM (that means intramuscular, right? as in an injection?), just snort. Did you try snorting at first and then move onto IM? Just curious, as this information could be very helpful to me. thanks
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: oxymd on November 29, 2012, 02:57 am
Wow. Don't want to get my expectations too high, but this sounds like exactly what I need.

So racemic did it for you? I was all set to order s-isomer, as the other anectdotal reports I've read on sr pointed to it as the preferred choice to treat depression. Also, I don't really want to IM (that means intramuscular, right? as in an injection?), just snort. Did you try snorting at first and then move onto IM? Just curious, as this information could be very helpful to me. thanks

Those were my thoughts exactly...I knew it could treat depression, but didn't expect much for myself.  Not everyone benefits from it, but you'll never know unless you try.  Worst case is you'll get high and have a good time ;)

Racemic did the trick for me.  I can't come up with a logical argument as to why the S-isomer wouldn't work as it has a higher affinity for the NMDA receptor than the R-isomer.  It could be argued that the S-isomer would exert an even more powerful effect at a lower dosage for treating depression.  Yes, IM = intramuscular injection.  You don't have to inject anything, I would imagine any route of administration would work just as well.  I chose not to snort it because I hate any sort of postnasal drip, and I am very comfortable with giving injections (although it was strange to inject myself). 
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Christy Nugs on November 29, 2012, 04:26 am
why dont u just buy some b-12 , b3, alpha lipoic acid 1200 mg per day and some lithium orotate.
that would work better and cost less.
dont be scared by the lithiun its 5mg and over the counter.
wtf is depresion? i take it and dont have any!!
keeps the pms away - but i doubt u needed to know that lol  :P

what that combo does is return ur brain chemistry to normal whatever the fuck that is  :)
May I ask if that's just what you've found works best for you or something you've read\were recommended somewhere? If there's any papers\articles discussing it I'd be very interested :D

i got rid of my tv 8 years ago and never looked back!!
i read a lot. mostly science and peer reviewed medical papers.
also chemistry - well a little - in my field of expertise.
Those are harder to find lol

everyone's brain needs lithium and other minerals to function.
its made with a chemical reaction  with oratic acid. thats whats in mothers
milk. very mild and natural. it helps ur brain produce a feeling of well being " dopamine "
it is not a finite resource as past studies have suggested.


Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: painbow on November 29, 2012, 05:25 am
IM injections may be more effective but I personally feel that most people will benefit from just snorting ketamine.  Just finely grind the crystals with a metal spoon or something.

Some people say, they like to take smaller doses daily and others say they like taking bigger doses infrequently.

I have been experimenting with different dosing regimens.  I personally don't like the small daily dose regimen.  Taking smaller doses rather makes me feel irritable and flat at times.

At this point, I believe taking higher dose every 5-10 days seem to work better.  Plus, I don't think taking ketamine on daily basis would be healthy since there are reports of withdrawal syndrome.  Thus, taking breaks in duration of 5-10 days may work better while minimizing dependence and long-term side effects.

Ketamine will be a "reset" button on your reality.  It will make you feel very vulnerable like an infant being born.  This is the time where your mind is very mendible.

Make sure to be in positive and calm environment and listen to some good music or positive messages whether in forms of video or audio you can find on youtube or so on.

I may also try S-isomer in the future and see how it differs from racemic ketamine. 

For those who are want to fight depression, also look into psilocybin mushrooms.  Clinical data suggests that shrooms can indeed help with anxiety and depression.

Currently, I am convinced that weekly ritual of ketamine / psilocybin may be far more effective in long-run than the anti-depressants on the market at the moment.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: nuyt on November 29, 2012, 06:37 am
Those were my thoughts exactly...I knew it could treat depression, but didn't expect much for myself.  Not everyone benefits from it, but you'll never know unless you try.  Worst case is you'll get high and have a good time ;)

Racemic did the trick for me.  I can't come up with a logical argument as to why the S-isomer wouldn't work as it has a higher affinity for the NMDA receptor than the R-isomer.  It could be argued that the S-isomer would exert an even more powerful effect at a lower dosage for treating depression.  Yes, IM = intramuscular injection.  You don't have to inject anything, I would imagine any route of administration would work just as well.  I chose not to snort it because I hate any sort of postnasal drip, and I am very comfortable with giving injections (although it was strange to inject myself). 

So racemic was just what you tried first, and since it sounds like it worked so well you've had no reason to try S isomer?

And @painbow, first off thanks for that info! Sounds like you've gotten good results from racemic too. My impression, just based upon reading threads on SR, is that people seem to have good results regardless of which type they've tried. And I haven't seen anyone do a comparison (which would probably be pretty hard to do anyways).

Well, this thread motivated me to place an order for a gram of S isomer. Thanks OP and everyone who's contributed, and I'll keep you guys updated as to how it works for me. :)
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: AnonymousAddict on November 29, 2012, 11:08 am
Guys Could u please tell me how i can tell what i was sent was real Ket?  As i said i have a little more than a Gram in Crystal form, and i have no clue how to messure out a dose.. I dont wanna go out of my mind kinda thing i just wanna do enuff to feel it to see if its something i like to go further, I gues i will try snorting ..it..But Is there any tale tell signs to know if its real>? It was sent to me a sample cause i orderd 4000 xanax bars from india..
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Gary Oak on November 29, 2012, 11:34 am
Guys Could u please tell me how i can tell what i was sent was real Ket?  As i said i have a little more than a Gram in Crystal form, and i have no clue how to messure out a dose.. I dont wanna go out of my mind kinda thing i just wanna do enuff to feel it to see if its something i like to go further, I gues i will try snorting ..it..But Is there any tale tell signs to know if its real>? It was sent to me a sample cause i orderd 4000 xanax bars from india..

Invest in something as simple as a $20 milligram scale for one thing, it's just plain old lazy if you don't. Anywho, if you're too impatient for that just grind up a tiny amount to snort and just keep going at it until you start to feel your mind free itself from your cranium. Being on ketamine is like dreaming while awake, but not everyone can learn to enjoy it like the rest of us.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: AnonymousAddict on November 29, 2012, 11:58 am
Thnks, I had a digi scale and some asshole stole it out my truck..lol.. I dont really need a scale anymore cause iv dont really sell anything or buy mutch of anything tht needs to be weigh . Im more of a Pharmacutical meds man myself. But i thought since i had this ket i would see what its all about.. How can i tell if its real? R there any ways to look at it or taste it or anything to see? How long does it last?
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: echoman on November 29, 2012, 03:28 pm
Ketamine can cause depression too.....so I ve heard
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: painbow on November 29, 2012, 11:18 pm
why dont u just buy some b-12 , b3, alpha lipoic acid 1200 mg per day and some lithium orotate.
that would work better and cost less.
dont be scared by the lithiun its 5mg and over the counter.
wtf is depresion? i take it and dont have any!!
keeps the pms away - but i doubt u needed to know that lol  :P

Lithium actually causes kidney damage when used longterm.  Vitamin B complexes can definitely help your mood and energy.  Augmentation of B complex has been shown to increase the effectiveness of antidepressants.

Dopamine isn't the only neurotransmitter involved in the mood.  There are many many factors beyond the several neurotransmitters commonly mentioned (DA, 5HT, NE) that affects our mood.
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: Christy Nugs on November 30, 2012, 12:11 am
sorry to tell ya the L orotate wont cause any damage at all and is 5mg a day.
your brain actually needs it to function properly. u have been taking it all of your life in the food u eat - prolly just didn't know it\
i think ur confused with the prescription lithium - i would never tell anyone to take that - its poison!
it's like 5 or 6 bucks a bottle for 30 days - seriously give it a try - u wont be disappointed!
Title: Re: Ketamine for Depression - Has anyone tried it?
Post by: nusakan on November 30, 2012, 12:45 am
I took Lithium Orotate when I was depressed and even taking a quarter pill (!) I was constantly - constantly - dying of thirst. So I can completely believe kidney damage is a possibility with more. You feel sedated. It makes your thinking fuzzy. It messes with your endocrine function. Especially thyroid, which is in itself one of the major causes of depression. Whatever Christy and the internet try to tell you, it is the same lithium that they use on psych wards but with an orotate ion instead of a carbonate. Do NOT waste your money or your time. Leave that hippy fairy dust for people looking for magic beans.

On the contrary what did cure my depression - and my mom's - was just the basics:

100mg Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate (B6)
800mcg Methylfolate (B9)
 >1mg Dibencozide (B12)
>15mg Optizinc
 >500mg Carlson EPA Fish Oil
250mg Genceutic Naturals Curcumin BCM-95

Also EXERCISE EXERCISE EXERCISE!

I mention the best forms/brands because I only ever found certain ones to actually work. And I have tried EVERYTHING.

Proper nutrition etc won't be enough for everyone but it will give you the best shot possible.