Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Ticket on April 22, 2013, 07:08 pm

Title: Tormail alternative?
Post by: Ticket on April 22, 2013, 07:08 pm
Is there a reliable tormail alternative out there? I'm getting kind of tired of it being down. It really makes business difficult when you can only communicate half the time... or what feels like half the time.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: tree on April 22, 2013, 07:14 pm
I found secure-mail.biz to be a nice tormail alternative. It's in clearnet but doesn't seem to bad (you can access it through tor). It's used by some anonymous developpers, like the developper of whonix, so i figure it's not that bad.
You only have like 50MB of free storage space though so there's that.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: iheartmolly on April 23, 2013, 05:43 am
I would like to find a kind of mail service that keeps you anonymous but lets you get notifications of new mail by some anonymous method? Anybody know of such service?
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: super-silk-woman on April 23, 2013, 05:49 am
What about hushmail?
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: AnonymousAddict on April 23, 2013, 06:25 am
Mailinator is good... But thats really for throw away use..

U can make up a email right on the spot..

Say u can into a friend and they ask u email, but u dont wanna give them your personal

u could say jackmeoff@mailinator.com  and then u go to the site and put in the name u gav e the person  and its a email, u dont sign up or anything,

I use it for Bullshit sites that asks for email address's
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 24, 2013, 02:06 pm
Something fishy is definitely going on.  Blueskytraders stopped being able to send and receive messages to TORmail shortly after all of the new government regulations were placed on BTC.  And NOW he is saying that he cannot send/receive to the SAFE-MAIL.net......  Safe-mail is a clearweb email service and TORmail is obviously a hidden email service.  It does not make sense why he can no longer receive from Safe-Mail.net unless he is feeling the pressure from the government to no longer allow anonymous transfers.  To add to the fishy-ness of the situation, he has removed his public PGP key from his .onion website and said that "Our PGP key has been compromised, so we've taken that down. There are currently no plans to replace it, and consequently no plans for encryption going forward from here." 

I would like to hear what other people think about this?
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: mrlavish on April 24, 2013, 02:57 pm
Something fishy is definitely going on.  Blueskytraders stopped being able to send and receive messages to TORmail shortly after all of the new government regulations were placed on BTC.  And NOW he is saying that he cannot send/receive to the SAFE-MAIL.net......  Safe-mail is a clearweb email service and TORmail is obviously a hidden email service.  It does not make sense why he can no longer receive from Safe-Mail.net unless he is feeling the pressure from the government to no longer allow anonymous transfers.  To add to the fishy-ness of the situation, he has removed his public PGP key from his .onion website and said that "Our PGP key has been compromised, so we've taken that down. There are currently no plans to replace it, and consequently no plans for encryption going forward from here." 

I would like to hear what other people think about this?

I think this is how the powers that be will kill off SR via BTC "regulation". It is getting harder and harder to get coins anonymously. Bitfloor,Bitcopia,Get-Bitcoin,Bitinstant/Trustcash all have either had their bank accounts frozen or have become more difficult to use. BlueSkyTrader while an awesome vendor has become difficult to use requiring advanced orders that are often sold out and now as you stated can no longer handle tormail. I would not be surprised to see BlueSky's account frozen soon. As you stated I bet they are under pressure to not allow anonymous purchases anymore with threats of account closure.

Yes there are MP to BTC vendor(high fees and long ques), but the ability to get coins quickly without identifying yourself is getting whittled down. Yes they may not be able to squash or control coins, but if they make it that you have to jump through hurdles and identify yourself, then they will kill off BTC.

The whole point of BTC is anonymity. If you have to show ID and confirm it to make a BTC purchase, then what's the point?
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: AussieMitch on April 24, 2013, 03:53 pm
Just use safe-mail.net and turn off IP checking so it doesn't keep logging you out through Tor. Very fast and anonymous if you use Tor.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 24, 2013, 07:47 pm
Just use safe-mail.net and turn off IP checking so it doesn't keep logging you out through Tor. Very fast and anonymous if you use Tor.

You obviously did not read either my post or BST .onion website......  BST is NO LONGER ACCEPTING orders from BOTH TORmail AND Safe-mail.net

Basically, he canceled service to TORmail and then after SR users found a new email service that allows them to remain anonymous he canceled service to that domain as well.  It definitely seems like someone is putting pressure on him to NOT ALLOW ANONYMOUS BTC TRANSFERS!

I know he will allow use of hushmail but after the TFM sting I am very wary of using hushmail, even though buying BTC is not illegal.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: sourman on April 24, 2013, 08:26 pm
Don't use hushmail. You might as well use any free webmail provider from some "unfriendly" country. Lavabit.com is a good clearnet email provider that is known for maintaining privacy.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 24, 2013, 08:56 pm
I will definitely check out lavabit.com  +1 to you sir.   I would love to hear from BST himself on this issue.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 24, 2013, 10:06 pm
Yeah, lavabit works on clearnet but it WILL NOT ALLOW you to use TOR with it.  I got as far as clicking on the sign up link before being banned because of my masked TOR IP.  I will try yahoo with TOR and post back how that works.  Anyone with any suggestions is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: iheartmolly on April 24, 2013, 10:53 pm
Something fishy is definitely going on.  Blueskytraders stopped being able to send and receive messages to TORmail shortly after all of the new government regulations were placed on BTC.  And NOW he is saying that he cannot send/receive to the SAFE-MAIL.net......  Safe-mail is a clearweb email service and TORmail is obviously a hidden email service.  It does not make sense why he can no longer receive from Safe-Mail.net unless he is feeling the pressure from the government to no longer allow anonymous transfers.  To add to the fishy-ness of the situation, he has removed his public PGP key from his .onion website and said that "Our PGP key has been compromised, so we've taken that down. There are currently no plans to replace it, and consequently no plans for encryption going forward from here." 

I would like to hear what other people think about this?

I think this is how the powers that be will kill off SR via BTC "regulation". It is getting harder and harder to get coins anonymously. Bitfloor,Bitcopia,Get-Bitcoin,Bitinstant/Trustcash all have either had their bank accounts frozen or have become more difficult to use. BlueSkyTrader while an awesome vendor has become difficult to use requiring advanced orders that are often sold out and now as you stated can no longer handle tormail. I would not be surprised to see BlueSky's account frozen soon. As you stated I bet they are under pressure to not allow anonymous purchases anymore with threats of account closure.

Yes there are MP to BTC vendor(high fees and long ques), but the ability to get coins quickly without identifying yourself is getting whittled down. Yes they may not be able to squash or control coins, but if they make it that you have to jump through hurdles and identify yourself, then they will kill off BTC.

The whole point of BTC is anonymity. If you have to show ID and confirm it to make a BTC purchase, then what's the point?

Ultimately, this is all an evolutionary game. Right now, we are seeing a phase change that is making things more difficult. But out of these new obstacles, something else should arise. New methods will appear that have not yet been conceived or planned for. If you think that banning drugs will make them go away. Then, banning bitcoins will make them disappear. But that's not how it works. I believe what would result is that they will become more precious and valuable, as demand will still exist but supply will be hard to come by. The system will evolve, and new methods will be used to circulate/acquire them.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: sourman on April 24, 2013, 11:01 pm
Yeah, lavabit works on clearnet but it WILL NOT ALLOW you to use TOR with it.  I got as far as clicking on the sign up link before being banned because of my masked TOR IP.  I will try yahoo with TOR and post back how that works.  Anyone with any suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Damn, it worked over tor as recently as a few months ago :/

Yahoo should work.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: dryice on April 25, 2013, 12:41 am
Lavabit.com works fine with tor you just cant set up a new account all the time using tor. Keep trying and It will let you though sometimes.
Or set up your lavabit account using VPN or from a public computer somewhere then you can access it anytime with tor.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 25, 2013, 02:46 pm
Yahoo will not allow you to sign up over TOR.  Once you get to the Captcha, even if you enter it correctly, it just reloads a new captcha.  I tried it multiple times in a row and I had Noscipt disabled.   Back to square one.  Anyone have any others to recommend/try?
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: Ticket on April 25, 2013, 02:58 pm
Everyone has given suggestions for clearnet email services. I should have been more specific in my original post. Clearnet email is not acceptable for my purposes. Are there no other Tor-based email services out there?
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 25, 2013, 03:57 pm
No, TORmail was and is the only Hidden web-mail service available to the public. 
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: railroadbill on April 25, 2013, 05:33 pm
Hotmail works fine with tor. gmail works fine too if u get a burner phone to register it with. Why the need for a hidden service? You can use pgp to keep contents private and tor to keep connections separate.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 25, 2013, 05:51 pm
You can use pgp to keep contents private and tor to keep connections separate.

Not with BlueSkyTraders.  He no longer allows encrypted communications for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: railroadbill on April 25, 2013, 06:13 pm
You can use pgp to keep contents private and tor to keep connections separate.

Not with BlueSkyTraders.  He no longer allows encrypted communications for whatever reason.

They sell coins though, theres no personal info you need to give. Theres no reason to hide using tor if your just buying coins. It does make you wonder why the sudden change in policy, there's definitely been alot of changes happening lately. 
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: mezzomixtor on April 25, 2013, 08:27 pm
Yahoo will not allow you to sign up over TOR.  Once you get to the Captcha, even if you enter it correctly, it just reloads a new captcha.  I tried it multiple times in a row and I had Noscipt disabled.   Back to square one.  Anyone have any others to recommend/try?

When did you try? because i was able to create an account over TOR 3 days ago! (and i'm still using this account)
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 25, 2013, 09:38 pm
I tried before I posted my first post saying that it doesnt work and then I tried it again just now and it STILL will not get past the CAPTCHA.  I tried multiple times again and every time after inputting the random string of letters and numbers, the CAPTCHA will just reload with a different set of letters and numbers.  I had Noscript set to Allow scripts Globally, just to make sure that it wasn't Noscript that was hindering the process.   Finding a suitable replacement to TORmail/Safe-mail is proving to be VERY tricky.   Anyone else with any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: mezzomixtor on April 25, 2013, 11:34 pm
I tried before I posted my first post saying that it doesnt work and then I tried it again just now and it STILL will not get past the CAPTCHA.  I tried multiple times again and every time after inputting the random string of letters and numbers, the CAPTCHA will just reload with a different set of letters and numbers.  I had Noscript set to Allow scripts Globally, just to make sure that it wasn't Noscript that was hindering the process.   Finding a suitable replacement to TORmail/Safe-mail is proving to be VERY tricky.   Anyone else with any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I just tried to create an account again, and after 5 or 6 captchas it worked! maybe its a bug or something and you have to enter the captcha several times till it works i dont know ^^ but if you want to then just write me a pm and i'll give you the access data for the account!

edit: wrote you a pm
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 26, 2013, 01:45 pm
I am definitely not comfortable using an account not created by me.  Thanks for the kind gesture but I still need to find an alternative web-mail service.   Can anyone else chime-in and enlighten us with the e-mail service that you are using with TOR?
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: meatwad on April 26, 2013, 04:15 pm
I was finally able to get signed up to yahoo mail through TOR.  You have to enter the Captcha 4-5 times before it will finally go through.  yahoo mail should be sufficient until another TOR alternative comes along.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: mezzomixtor on April 26, 2013, 05:03 pm
I am definitely not comfortable using an account not created by me.

totally understand this! at least you could create your account  :)
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: monrovia on April 27, 2013, 01:31 am
countermail.com?? Unless I missed something, I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet. I've never used it, but I just wanted to bring it up and see if anyone has any experience with it and knows if it's also banned by BST. This is kind of aggravating, BST was my favorite bitcoin vendor by far. :(
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: maxieBB on April 27, 2013, 02:25 am
Is there a reliable tormail alternative out there? I'm getting kind of tired of it being down. It really makes business difficult when you can only communicate half the time... or what feels like half the time.

Try Whore-mail, they go down on you half the time. They never get tired either.  :-*
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: itsthecops on April 27, 2013, 03:46 am
I lost my trust in tormail.  You really can't tell if they're getting back, copied, raped or what. 
I'm genuinely scared for my email in there.  It's anonymous BUT it's not confidential by any means.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: Ticket on April 27, 2013, 04:24 pm
After doing a bit of reading, it looks like hushmail might be the best option. For anyone interested, this is a good read:

CLEARNET WARNING
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/11/tutorial-how-create-anonymous-email-accounts
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: mezzomixtor on April 27, 2013, 05:38 pm
didnt read the article, but i dont think that hushmail is an option. there are enough posts in this forum where people warn you about hushmail with good reason!  ;)
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: sourman on April 27, 2013, 07:20 pm
Don't use hushmail unless you're making throwaway accounts or something. It's not much better than a regular free webmail service as they are known to cooperate with authorities. Most of the evidence being used to prosecute The Farmer's Market (TFM) leadership involves decrypted emails sent through hushmail.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: medicineman684 on April 27, 2013, 08:59 pm
Yeah, lavabit works on clearnet but it WILL NOT ALLOW you to use TOR with it.  I got as far as clicking on the sign up link before being banned because of my masked TOR IP.  I will try yahoo with TOR and post back how that works.  Anyone with any suggestions is greatly appreciated.

I use lavabit using Thunderbird email client with torbirdy addon...works great. Definitely time to bail on tormail. You can't complain because it's a free service but you' think they'd at least put up a notice when their service goes down for three or four days at a time!

mm
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: Ticket on April 29, 2013, 04:51 pm
Don't use hushmail unless you're making throwaway accounts or something. It's not much better than a regular free webmail service as they are known to cooperate with authorities. Most of the evidence being used to prosecute The Farmer's Market (TFM) leadership involves decrypted emails sent through hushmail.

Decrypted emails meaning TFM leadership used PGP on top of hushmail's encryption, and both levels were decrypted? That seems extraordinary to me. What strength RSA keys were they using? The EFF article specifically warns that hushmail may cooperate with authorities. But given that ANY legitimate clearnet service will, the fact that they're honest about it is a plus.

My logic goes like this:

Tormail is the only tor-based email service.
Tormail is unreliable and a possible honeypot.
Therefore, Tormail use is not acceptable.
And therefore clearnet services are the only option.
All clearnet services are subject to law enforcement warrants and/or subpoenas.
Protect yourself, no matter what clearnet service you use, with PGP.
Hushmail refuses subpoenas from foreign LE agencies unless they go through the proper Canadian channels (most give up at that point)
Other clearnet services give up information much more readily (gmail)
Most clearnet services disallow the use of Tor (lavabit).
Hushmail works perfectly fine with Tor.
Therefore, hushmail, though an imperfect solution, may be the best option for many reasons.

Please, poke holes in my logic. I welcome it in an effort to increase the safety and security of all.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: Jack N Hoff on April 29, 2013, 05:10 pm
Don't use hushmail unless you're making throwaway accounts or something. It's not much better than a regular free webmail service as they are known to cooperate with authorities. Most of the evidence being used to prosecute The Farmer's Market (TFM) leadership involves decrypted emails sent through hushmail.

Decrypted emails meaning TFM leadership used PGP on top of hushmail's encryption, and both levels were decrypted? That seems extraordinary to me. What strength RSA keys were they using? The EFF article specifically warns that hushmail may cooperate with authorities. But given that ANY legitimate clearnet service will, the fact that they're honest about it is a plus.

My logic goes like this:

Tormail is the only tor-based email service.
Tormail is unreliable and a possible honeypot.
Therefore, Tormail use is not acceptable.
And therefore clearnet services are the only option.
All clearnet services are subject to law enforcement warrants and/or subpoenas.
Protect yourself, no matter what clearnet service you use, with PGP.
Hushmail refuses subpoenas from foreign LE agencies unless they go through the proper Canadian channels (most give up at that point)
Other clearnet services give up information much more readily (gmail)
Most clearnet services disallow the use of Tor (lavabit).
Hushmail works perfectly fine with Tor.
Therefore, hushmail, though an imperfect solution, may be the best option for many reasons.

Please, poke holes in my logic. I welcome it in an effort to increase the safety and security of all.

They didn't use PGP.  They are talking about hughmails built in encryption which is a very false sense of security.

I've had more than one account banned by hushmail for breaking their terms of service.  I don't know what I did either.
Title: Re: Tormail alternative?
Post by: sourman on May 01, 2013, 09:41 pm
Don't use hushmail unless you're making throwaway accounts or something. It's not much better than a regular free webmail service as they are known to cooperate with authorities. Most of the evidence being used to prosecute The Farmer's Market (TFM) leadership involves decrypted emails sent through hushmail.

Decrypted emails meaning TFM leadership used PGP on top of hushmail's encryption, and both levels were decrypted? That seems extraordinary to me. What strength RSA keys were they using? The EFF article specifically warns that hushmail may cooperate with authorities. But given that ANY legitimate clearnet service will, the fact that they're honest about it is a plus.

My logic goes like this:

Tormail is the only tor-based email service.
Tormail is unreliable and a possible honeypot.
Therefore, Tormail use is not acceptable.
And therefore clearnet services are the only option.
All clearnet services are subject to law enforcement warrants and/or subpoenas.
Protect yourself, no matter what clearnet service you use, with PGP.
Hushmail refuses subpoenas from foreign LE agencies unless they go through the proper Canadian channels (most give up at that point)
Other clearnet services give up information much more readily (gmail)
Most clearnet services disallow the use of Tor (lavabit).
Hushmail works perfectly fine with Tor.
Therefore, hushmail, though an imperfect solution, may be the best option for many reasons.

Please, poke holes in my logic. I welcome it in an effort to increase the safety and security of all.

No, no lol

I meant hushmail itself decrypted the emails TFM's crew sent through their service. As far as I know, they did not use PGP on top of hushmail.