Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: dingowombat on August 24, 2012, 11:26 pm
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I've recently received a package of coke from a newish vendor on there. It came across international borders and turns out wasn't vacuum sealed. I gave a 3 in feedback for that reason and the following conversation ensued:
Vendor:
The fact that you gave me a 3 rating for not vacuum sealing is very nice on your part especially since I don't offer sealing in my profile. I am starting to reconsider selling to you Australians due to the fact that most of you guys have a really bad attitude
Response from me:
Are you serious? It's not something you have to offer extra. It's the bare minimum that is expected on SR. In fact it is stated in the official Silk Road seller's guide (which I presume you read when you joined up as a seller, because it's mentioned in the sellers sign-up page to which you clicked "I Agree"... yes, I'm a seller too under a different account) that you *have to* vacuum seal if your product has a smell. And cocaine definitely smells.
It's on this page:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/sellers_guide
In this packaging section:
"If the contents of the package have an odor or can be detected by canine or electronic sniffers, you MUST vacuum seal the package."
In 31 transactions over 6 months I've never had a vendor not vacuum seal. You are playing games with people's safety putting your customers at serious risk of arrest and worse. I've never given a 3 to any vendor, but I don't see any reason not to tell other people that you are not keeping to the SR rules. And it not just to Australia, it's to anywhere.
Vendor again:
Nice interpretation of the rules, the coke bag has no odor to it, that was mostly meant for weed. You might have had over 31 buys but I have over 400 sales. I was mulling the other day if I should stop shipping to oz due to the bad attitude of the clients from that country and you have made out my mind, no more oz. Ps, most vendors don't vacuum and lots complain about Australians
I call BS. Also, vendor's page says as of right now 40 transactions - not over 400 sales.
Am I being unreasonable here? If everything thinks I'm in the wrong here I'll go change my rating to something else - but I'd like to at least get feedback from the SR community in general.
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Yes, you are being very unreasonable. If the vendor never states on their profile they vaccuum seal their product, and you never inquired about it before placing the order you should give him the 5/5 he deserves since you received your order, tuck your tail between your legs and learn to read a vendor's profile before just 'expecting' anything.
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Only a little unreasonable in my opinion. You did actually receive the order and if the quality was good, the feedback score should be raised. You have now brought to the vendor's attention the concept of vacuum sealing orders and if he refuses to do so, you know who not to order from next time. I can see how you have made an assumption , thinking common sense would tell you that, especially being an order from overseas, that the vendor would definitely vacuum seal the order. I'm sure next time you place an order you will ensure the vendor vacuum seals it.
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I don't feel you're being unreasonable.
However, I made a similar post once regarding a small amount of MDMA from holland, and a bunch of people posted to tell me I was a jackass.
So apparently the majority do not agree with us...
The consensus seems to be, for some twisted reason, that if it's not mentioned, and you don't inquire, and the amount is personal, that vendors are under no obligation to vacuum seal. I think this is retarded where drugs like cocaine and mdma are concerned, because they do sniff for those, but I guess the vacuum sealing process is expensive.
Please PM me the vendor's name so I'll know never to order from him.
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Okay I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong then (or going against common wisdom). I've changed the feedback score back. However I will leave the comment that it wasn't vacuum sealed to inform other users.
Thanks all,
DW
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The consensus seems to be, for some twisted reason, that if it's not mentioned, and you don't inquire, and the amount is personal, that vendors are under no obligation to vacuum seal.
They always used to tell me this in school and pissed me off, but for some reason i'm gonna say it anyways.
When you Assume, you make an Ass out of You and Me !
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Okay I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong then (or going against common wisdom). I've changed the feedback score back. However I will leave the comment that it wasn't vacuum sealed to inform other users.
Thanks all,
DW
+1 DW for making the right decision (IMO). :) Having the guts to admit you may have made a boo boo shows a strength of character and a great attitude. Good on ya. :)
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You are NOT being unreasonable. Not vacuum sealing or at least heat sealing an international order is playing games with your safety. You should say who the vendor is so that those of us who value our safety and freedom know who to avoid.
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It's not at all unreasonable to assume an experienced coke seller vac seals ... I think it's safe to say most coke buyers here just take something like that for granted. Ultimately though, it's up to the buyer to make sure the seller meets their minimum packaging/shipping expectations. IMO, the seller ought to be up front by making it crystal clear in their menu posts that they DO NOT vac seal. That's only fair, no? It's hard to believe this is the first time a buyer has brought this up with the seller. Full disclosure always beats falling back on a technicality.
Stealth packing isn't something that benefits only the buyer. If a drug pkg gets intercepted and Postal Police decide to investigate you better believe they are going to go after the sender just as hard as the receiver. It's in both party's interest to minimize every possible risk to avoid detection. Also..a drug sniffing dog most def can be trained to specifically detect cocaine.
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This is not unreasonable. Vacuum sealing should be standard and in particular to Australia and ESPECIALLY for Blow. I gotta confess it took me a while to get a vac sealer because I bought one and it broke however I did double-bag but now I'd never send an order without vac-sealing, I'd just delay the order.
If this moron thinks that dogs can smell through zippies he was born with only half a brain. If dogs can smell bacon through usual packet, ya damn straight they can smell Blow WHICH THEY ARE TRAINED TO DO through a thin little zippie.
Complete fool, should be named and shamed.
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Actually, the dogs don't even need to detect the drugs through a baggie. Most positive hits come from trace elements left behind on the outside of the baggie and packaging.
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if it's stated on the vendor's page that they do not vacuum seal, they deserve the 5/5
still doesn't mean they're a good professional vendor though. Just tip them off about vacuum sealing and move on
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The other thing about this that really grinds my gears is that the onus (for this type of illicits) should definitely not be on the buyer, if you don't vac seal mention it on your page. If vendors answered PM's from every person they sell to about whether or not they vac seal they'd do very little else with their time.
Limbo, I got a letter from you before you got the vac sealer, no concerns at all for RC's. Got plenty from the UK and US with 0 troubles. Never hurt though!
Yeah RCs are a bit different because apart from the big 3 Meph, M1 and MDPV dogs aren't trained for them and even then not all of them have caught on although the Amphetamine RCs can still be detected by dogs trained to smell Amphetamine compounds in general. Also if you are buying and selling Blow you can quite easily afford a vac sealer because they are hardly break-the-bank expensive. Mine cost me about £300 + shipping because I needed a big one to seal up keys of the Cat but if ya only selling little bits you don't need to spend anywhere near that much. Just laziness not to have it in my opinion.
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Yeah they can be trained for specific things or generically. So if a dog was trained to generally pick up on Amphetamines it'd pick up from anything from MDMA to base Amphetatmine to Meth to the complex ones like DOC, DOM, DOB and DOI.
M1 is a cathinone and most LE trained dogs haven't been geared to them yet although I believe they have started to do it for them in the U.K and U.S, not sure about Australia though.
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I judge packages first and foremost on if they get to me. I think the issue would be better of discussed with him without leaving bad feedback. At the end of the day you got your gear and its your choice to buy from him again.
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I'd say you are very justified in leaving a 3/5. Sending coke over seas without a vac is just plain retarded. Whether he listed it in his page or not, he deserves a bad rating because that is bad form and is the type of shit that whittles away at the effectiveness and legitimacy of SR. Would it be ok to sprinkle coke on the outside of the envelope too just because they say they do? Get out of here..vac your shit man..every time..no excuses.
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Vacuum Sealing - am I being unreasonable?
No ur are not, unless you totally dont care and of ur head
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vacuum sealing is total bullishit, dogs smell the tiniest particles. Do you people honestly think most vendors here wash all the surfaces and the materials they use prior and after sealing? On my part vacuuming only makes it bulkier and harder to hide.
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vacuum sealing is total bullishit, dogs smell the tiniest particles. Do you people honestly think most vendors here wash all the surfaces and the materials they use prior and after sealing? On my part vacuuming only makes it bulkier and harder to hide.
Good luck getting sales if that's how you feel mate.
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Do you people honestly think most vendors here wash all the surfaces and the materials they use prior and after sealing?
...umm. Yes...? :\
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Just to tie up loose ends, the vendor did message me that he'll be updating his profile to indicate that he doesn't vac-seal. To me that sounds fair, and I'll let my revised rating stand. Tried the product last night too and it was quite good. Such a pity, if he sealed properly I would definitely be a repeat customer.
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lol dont think hell be getting many orders after his profile gets updated
vacuum seal or gtfo
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I agree with every statement made here in that its ridiculously stupid not to vac seal coke, but still stand by my statement that you got your package safely and the vendor should get 5/5 for it.
The onus is on the buyer to make sure their product is packaged the way it should be, and if the vendor never mentions in his packaging section of his vendor profile it's your responsibility to question him in private about it. Their 'oniu' is written in their vendor profile, and if it's not stated in there you need to contact that vendor about it.
We're talking about buying contraband over the internet here from an anonymous person. Unless that person explicitly states that your product is vacuum sealed, for your own safety it's YOUR responsibility to question the vendor on the tenets of their shipping methodology that concern you/us all.
It was wrong and STUPID that he packaged your order in the way that he did, but it was also wrong and stupid of you for not questioning him on his packaging methods (broadly speaking) before committing to place an order with him. If you value your freedom sometimes you have to make that extra step to ensure that your package is being shipped to you appropriately because there are many vendors on here that just don't know it's common sense to vac seal coke (and the double ziplock bag thing is an example, I mean what the fuck, that aint gonna protect shit).
It's the vendor's fault and up to SR vendor support to evaluate the vendor's methods and take action from there, but it's up to you to evaluate the vendor's methods and question them on it, regardless of if it's common procedure to vac seal coke or not. He may be a new vendor with no clue on how to safely ship things and SR vendor support will deal with it in kind, but at the end of the day it's your safety that's in question and your responsibility to ensure that your package is shipped appropriately. It never kills anyone to PM the vendor BEFORE making the order.
I'm not trying to chew you out bud, i'm speaking on the behalf of all vendors and buyers, you just provided an example for me to explain my view on this matter. I'm glad you got your stuff safely, hope you learned a lesson in taking responsibility for your own safety and hope that you realize if a vendor bitches at you for 'bothering' them with pointless questions, that's probably not a vendor you'd want to do business with (*cough* Bosshogg)
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My view on this is that any drug with an odor should be vacuumed as standard if shipping internationally. It's just common sense surely?? Plus I think vendors should actually say they don't vacuum to give you an informed choice, as stated it is set out in the guidelines by SR and it isn't a difficult operation to perform. At least that's how I feel about it....
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My view on this is that any drug with an odor should be vacuumed as standard if shipping internationally. It's just common sense surely?? Plus I think vendors should actually say they don't vacuum to give you an informed choice, as stated it is set out in the guidelines by SR and it isn't a difficult operation to perform. At least that's how I feel about it....
What if some punk ass 17 year old some how gets his hands on a QP of coke and tries to start vending on here so he can pretend to be some hardcore playa but doesn't actually know shit about coke or the way to handle it?
It's an anonymous place here so it concerns me to some extent that some of the vendors here are fucking children who don't know anything about the trade and aren't mature enough to understand the ramifications of their actions :(
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I've recently received a package of coke from a newish vendor on there. It came across international borders and turns out wasn't vacuum sealed. I gave a 3 in feedback for that reason and the following conversation ensued:
Vendor:
The fact that you gave me a 3 rating for not vacuum sealing is very nice on your part especially since I don't offer sealing in my profile. I am starting to reconsider selling to you Australians due to the fact that most of you guys have a really bad attitude
Response from me:
Are you serious? It's not something you have to offer extra. It's the bare minimum that is expected on SR. In fact it is stated in the official Silk Road seller's guide (which I presume you read when you joined up as a seller, because it's mentioned in the sellers sign-up page to which you clicked "I Agree"... yes, I'm a seller too under a different account) that you *have to* vacuum seal if your product has a smell. And cocaine definitely smells.
It's on this page:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/sellers_guide
In this packaging section:
"If the contents of the package have an odor or can be detected by canine or electronic sniffers, you MUST vacuum seal the package."
In 31 transactions over 6 months I've never had a vendor not vacuum seal. You are playing games with people's safety putting your customers at serious risk of arrest and worse. I've never given a 3 to any vendor, but I don't see any reason not to tell other people that you are not keeping to the SR rules. And it not just to Australia, it's to anywhere.
Vendor again:
Nice interpretation of the rules, the coke bag has no odor to it, that was mostly meant for weed. You might have had over 31 buys but I have over 400 sales. I was mulling the other day if I should stop shipping to oz due to the bad attitude of the clients from that country and you have made out my mind, no more oz. Ps, most vendors don't vacuum and lots complain about Australians
I call BS. Also, vendor's page says as of right now 40 transactions - not over 400 sales.
Am I being unreasonable here? If everything thinks I'm in the wrong here I'll go change my rating to something else - but I'd like to at least get feedback from the SR community in general.
You are not being unreasonable at all!
All powders orders etc should be double vacuumed sealed especially when sent internationally.
Matrix 8)
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Tip from a top seller right there^^
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I'm glad to learn so many members of the community agree with me on this one. Apparently only the vendor and this guy read my post on the matter.
I honestly thought people didn't give a fuck if small orders got vacuum sealed or not. It actually dropped my respect for the SR community by 2%, but this damage has been reversed now.
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I've recently received a package of coke from a newish vendor on there. It came across international borders and turns out wasn't vacuum sealed. I gave a 3 in feedback for that reason and the following conversation ensued:
Vendor:
The fact that you gave me a 3 rating for not vacuum sealing is very nice on your part especially since I don't offer sealing in my profile. I am starting to reconsider selling to you Australians due to the fact that most of you guys have a really bad attitude
Response from me:
Are you serious? It's not something you have to offer extra. It's the bare minimum that is expected on SR. In fact it is stated in the official Silk Road seller's guide (which I presume you read when you joined up as a seller, because it's mentioned in the sellers sign-up page to which you clicked "I Agree"... yes, I'm a seller too under a different account) that you *have to* vacuum seal if your product has a smell. And cocaine definitely smells.
It's on this page:
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/sellers_guide
In this packaging section:
"If the contents of the package have an odor or can be detected by canine or electronic sniffers, you MUST vacuum seal the package."
In 31 transactions over 6 months I've never had a vendor not vacuum seal. You are playing games with people's safety putting your customers at serious risk of arrest and worse. I've never given a 3 to any vendor, but I don't see any reason not to tell other people that you are not keeping to the SR rules. And it not just to Australia, it's to anywhere.
Vendor again:
Nice interpretation of the rules, the coke bag has no odor to it, that was mostly meant for weed. You might have had over 31 buys but I have over 400 sales. I was mulling the other day if I should stop shipping to oz due to the bad attitude of the clients from that country and you have made out my mind, no more oz. Ps, most vendors don't vacuum and lots complain about Australians
I call BS. Also, vendor's page says as of right now 40 transactions - not over 400 sales.
Am I being unreasonable here? If everything thinks I'm in the wrong here I'll go change my rating to something else - but I'd like to at least get feedback from the SR community in general.
You are not being unreasonable at all!
All powders orders etc should be double vacuumed sealed especially when sent internationally.
Matrix 8)
Exactly! :)
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I can't believe sellers actually think it is OK to send product such as cocaine not vacuum sealed.
It's like buying a car and then they give you a car with no wheels. "Hey what the fuck, where are the wheels on my fucking car?"...Salesman "Uh, I never said you would get wheels included with the car nor does it say it on the paper you signed, fuck off!"
Yeah, see how ridiculous that is? It is basic fucking rules of sending drugs that has any kind of odor.
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dogs can smell through vaccum seals, but not in passing. They would have to loiter around a bag for minutes, not seconds to make a good assessment. I have seen this time and time again.
k9 inspectors at docks/airports are largely command driven to suspect looking people and are not hassling them for what they smell. It is just probable cause to search anybody they want by suggesting a dog detected a scent. Meanwhile, you look at the dog and it has the most vacant look on its face, clearly detected nothing apart from a pull command on their collar.
What needs to be addressed on SR are two things after some tests I ran:
1. adequate vacuum bags need to be purchased and I have never seen a vendor who has used the correct ones (only improved by X2 or 3 times vacuum sealed. Food grade will not do. You want bags that seal/protect expensive electronics or lab equipment trays. price will be a bit more, factor it in to your costs. I would rather pay for a $5 bag than lose a $500 order...)
2. packaging and mailing would need to be done in seperate rooms. As tomorrowman said, fucking pointless otherwise as any spec of shit on the outside of the vacuum bag, inside or outside of the letter = EASY fodder for dogs.
So if you are going to do it poorly, dont do it at all. If you are going to do it properly, good fucking luck dogs.
conclusion: MOST of you vendors are sloppy bitches. If I ever vend I will use nothing but the best 3M patented materials because I wouldn't offer reships unless you had 20+ orders. haha
the end.
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does this mean if i drive around my neighborhood throwing little bits of grinded weed in every blue postbox, it's gonna make me safe for a while?
tons of packages will be opened that are sent around my area, then they'll discover nothing illegal and be confused
then when shit clears out I can relax a bit more about packages being intercepted
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No, drop envelopes covered wit a bit of hash oil in the mailboxes. That way it will stick to a bunch of envelopes and make customs go ape shit 8)
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I'd have changed the 3/5 to 2/5 after his reply. Maybe some people only care about scoring the bag, but come on, I don't use SR to remember what punk street dealers act like. Maybe the reason there's so many entitled dealers around is that people are afraid to leave negative feedback. I say fuck 'em ::)
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I'm going to go against the grain and say that yes, you are being unreasonable, as are most people in this thread. There is a huge information gap when it comes to vaccum sealing and I would like to clear some of it up. It is totally up to you whether you wish to change the rating but I hope that everyone here reads this post and takes it to heart.
Vaccuum sealing in and of itself is not better than simply heat sealing. In fact, heat sealing using the same materials is arguable better than vacuum sealing. This is because the vaccuum created distorts and stretched the plastic, weakening it. Just because there is less air in a sealed container does not mean there is also less substance, the diffusion gradient has not changed and could even be argued that it is now greater because of the lack of air in the package. If it was just a baggie in an envelope then, yes, it is not ideal but if you throw a strop because it simply isnt vaccuumed for the sake of it then you are taking things too far.
Low density polythene is a poor barrier to moisture vapour diffusion anyway. To consider tripple vac sealed the gold standard is a fucking low estimation when it really is most likely worse than putting it in three heat sealed sandwich bags. I understand that these myths are also spread on the silk road sellers guide but can everyone please do their own research before spouting off false and unverified claims. There is more than enough information even on these forums that give you infinitely better options than tripple vac and I would disourage anyone from leaving a negative rating based solely on the lack of vaccuum packaging.
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So sweeney, you are saying that vacuum sealing is an insufficient method for safety and recommend heat sealing, yet you would give an international cocaine dealer 5/5 for NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING aromatic concealment? It's really not even the carelessness that bugs me, its the rude attitude of the vendor in response. Maybe I'll be blacklisted by some dealers for taking customer service seriously. Good riddance..
On the issue of vacuum sealing, I think it is sufficient for smaller, well stealthed amounts in most situations. In order to avoid a repeat of this discussion, I think that proper vacuuming equipment (good bags, good sealer) and relatively short transit times without extreme heat will prevent leakage. And, although dogs have sensational olfactory capabilities, the odds are against them when patrolling the floor of a busy mail center. Think about if dogs were trained to hit on packages with the lowest olfactory threshold they are capable. Anyone who packed a bowl before going to the post office would be leaving trace amounts of odor on the package. The response threshold from dogs must be trained higher than their touted capabilities, otherwise things would be a mess (well.. more of a mess).
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So sweeney, you are saying that vacuum sealing is an insufficient method for safety and recommend heat sealing, yet you would give an international cocaine dealer 5/5 for NOT EVEN ATTEMPTING aromatic concealment?
Thats a loaded question, I didn't say it was unacceptible or that I would give him a 5/5. Its an average level of packaging at best and I don't think it should be held in such high regard.
I understand what you are getting at and I agree, it probably wasnt out of order since he didn't use any concealment. I would still encourage anyone not to give a bad rating rating simply because it isn't vacuum packed. There are better methods than vaccum sealing and I'd recommend that these are researched before buyers demand vacuum sealing.
I misread your first post and I and I think the seller should offer some level of aroma suspension although if they didn't specifically offer it on their page I wouldn't expect it.
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So sweeny you would recommend heat sealing then washing the bag ? I also think vacuum sealing unless done very professionally is not effective
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yeah i've noticed vacuum sealing definitely does not work well
anyone else who has bought weed with multiple vac seals, a lot of the time you can pretty much smell it after cutting off 1 or 2 vac seals.
this shows that the smell is constantly leaking, but the vac seal just shuttles it enough so that it's undetectable by humans. i guess that's a good thing, but this shit will definitely not stand a chance against dogs
needless to say vac seals are probably enough for the average package though considering that a package must first be suspicious to be sniffed by dogs
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off top
mail gets scanned?
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needless to say vac seals are probably enough for the average package though considering that a package must first be suspicious to be sniffed by dogs
That's not true I'm afraid. What are you basing that on?
Can't speak for your country but I'm near positive that they would have dogs sniffing mail randomly suspicious or not, and then have higher scrutiny for the packages that are suspicious looking.
But I agree we should look for better packaging methods, there was a thread floating around here comparing different methods but I can't find it... I think those static-free bags they sell hardrives in could be effective, but I'm quite clueless on the subject.
USA
from what i've read on these forums, dogs are mainly used to check suspicious packages and less random package smells. If you look at the postal profiling sticky, most mail that is found is first flagged for suspicion that raises the likelihood of being sniffed
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Actually, the dogs don't even need to detect the drugs through a baggie. Most positive hits come from trace elements left behind on the outside of the baggie and packaging.
Too true. There was a "Border Security" show recently showing drug detection at the Vancouver airport. Their dog alerted on a nicely sealed package leaving Canada. When they cut open the package, it was clearly vacuumed sealed. On another incoming package, they opened a suspicious package and didn't detect any smell. But they ripped apart the contents to find very flat heroin inside wedding invitations.
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Anyone worrying about smell permeation should try my Heat Seal Foil :)
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/index.php/silkroad/item/3e10560aef
Easy to use, no noisy equipment, much higher grade than foil food bags but at the same time thinner and stronger :)
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you should at least vacuum seal any drugs you send over seas at least. not unreasonable.
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As a buyer I would expect all packages to be properly packaged to avoid detection...vacuum sealing is a cheap easy way to accomplish this. As for international orders this is a must! IMO I think a vendor stated that the profile page doesn't say anything about vacuum sealing....well if you are shipping internationally state that you will not be vacuum sealing and see if your sales decrease!