Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Mashman on August 02, 2012, 11:42 am

Title: Musings on LE
Post by: Mashman on August 02, 2012, 11:42 am
Yeah so last night I was thinking if there was a vendor on here who was undercover LE and he was actually sending out drugs and even If he wasn't to some extent woul these actions not come under entrapment and therefore the case would be unable to go to trial? I'm not sure about American law but in the uk I dont think police can offer you drugs an then arrest you for it. So it should apply to the net. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Mashman on August 02, 2012, 12:27 pm
Not quite what I thought but definitely a good defense!

From wikipedia :

In criminal law, entrapment is conduct by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit.[1] In many jurisdictions, entrapment is a possible defense against criminal liability. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informant or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person (see sting operation). So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime had it not been for inducement or persuasion on the part of some government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty. For example, if a defendant had purchased illegal drugs from an undercover officer, he may be found not guilty if it is determined that the officer initiated the transaction or aggressively pressed the accused to complete it.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: sourman on August 02, 2012, 01:10 pm
From a legal standpoint, most jurisdictions will allow undercover officers to offer drugs for sale and arrest someone for buying them as long as the cops were "passive" (meaning they can convince a jury that they were) and did not convince you to do anything.

In the case of SR, such operations would probably incur too many liability issues. Unless they bust or run surveillance on every person who tries to pick up their packages, there is no way LE can tell who the buyer is potentially going to be. They can't risk shipping painkillers, dangerous RCs, or even weed (it's highly dangerous, right?) because should anything happen to the user, it will blatantly expose them for the hypocrites that they are. How can they even ship drugs in the mail if it's so illegal for them to do so? What if they get lost in the mail and some postal worker ODs? I mean, they can always just fly across the country personally dropping the packages off dressed like the mailman, but why bother? It would be like the recording industry suing a few p2p users thinking everyone will stop.

There are only two likely solutions here. Either they will mail fake drugs to people trying to buy in bulk and charge them with conspiracy, or they will simply go after existing vendors, threaten them with ridiculous jail time, then have them work as CIs gathering info on everything from buyer addresses, to supply chains, chat logs, interacting with users on the forums to try and climb the leadership ladder, etc. Small time buyers likely won't be getting raided by the feds, though I can certainly see them sending address lists to local PCTs and leaving it up to their discretion. If you live in Texas or some other state with whacked-out drug laws, don't be surprised if the local sheriff (or laughably over-equipped SWAT team) pays you a visit. It's not like those small town departments have anything else to expend their oversized "anti-terror" budgets on.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Goofy Hippy on August 02, 2012, 02:32 pm
Yeah so last night I was thinking if there was a vendor on here who was undercover LE and he was actually sending out drugs and even If he wasn't to some extent woul these actions not come under entrapment and therefore the case would be unable to go to trial? I'm not sure about American law but in the uk I dont think police can offer you drugs an then arrest you for it. So it should apply to the net. Any thoughts?

Don't buy anything from  an 'undercover LE'!

Don't ever assume any constitutional rights or laws will protect you when it comes to big enough machines wanting to munch your ass! I have seen case after case where the man entraps the fuck out of you and then as you're sitting on a cold concrete block eating cold ... only God knows what? - on a stackable plastic tray - keep telling yourself that your rights are protected by the Constitution of the United States. I'm sure it's the same in the 2000's anywhere you live.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: gonzorx on August 03, 2012, 03:58 am
entrapment is an outdated concept. If you are entrapped by LE, courts will usually permit the evidence these days. The old 'are you a cop' question can result in them lying to you and it still being above the board.

be warned.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: mito on August 03, 2012, 01:02 pm
Fuck LE, fuck'em hard.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Thunderweed on August 03, 2012, 01:44 pm
it wouldn't work
vendors don't aggressively convince you to buy their product

unless the LE agent posed as a vendor, and PM'ed all buyers constantly trying to convince them to buy, and assuring them it's safe, not entrapment
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Mashman on August 03, 2012, 02:49 pm
But surely the advertisements from vendors saying there stuff's the best "fire"/flake etc. surely a good lawyer could build up a good case around that.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Lumps on August 05, 2012, 12:37 am
Guys, if LE played dirty like that no courtroom would ever hear of it. Get it out of your head that LEO plays by the game because they most certainly don't because they have to catch people who don't either.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: 751a696c24d97009 on August 05, 2012, 01:08 am
Calling it entrapment definitely wouldn't hold up in court. You willingly came to a site that is known for primarily selling illegal drugs, willingly created a site, willingly bought and transferred bitcoins into your account, and willingly placed an order for an illegal substance. Usually the vendor doesn't try to convince you, you usually just place and order and they fill it out. Even if a vendor did try to convince you to buy from them, you still came to the site and made an account on your own.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: midlandsmafia on August 05, 2012, 01:19 am
I have an idea !!
 How about all vendors start to use a little footnote at the bottom of there items saying : ' If you purchase I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you. .'
Or something like that. Then we'll see them try to use that in court.
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Limetless on August 05, 2012, 01:21 am
I have an idea !!
 How about all vendors start to use a little footnote at the bottom of there items saying : ' If you purchase I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you. .'
Or something like that. Then we'll see them try to use that in court.

That'd be alright actually, could bring out a line of diving rods that find water, cunts and cunts in a bath. :P
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Thunderweed on August 05, 2012, 02:20 am
I have an idea !!
 How about all vendors start to use a little footnote at the bottom of there items saying : ' If you purchase I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you. .'
Or something like that. Then we'll see them try to use that in court.

i actually dont see how this wouldnt work...

but there also has to be a legit excuse to be making an account on SR to show you didn't have illegal intent
Title: Re: Musings on LE
Post by: Limetless on August 05, 2012, 07:55 am
That would depend highly on whether I have been on the sesh or not my friend. ;)