Silk Road forums
Market => Rumor mill => Topic started by: rainbowmembrane on May 09, 2012, 08:22 am
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SR, I am very sad. My one hope for SR was that it would be a this fantastic place, that allowed to not have to look for good acid on the street (which as anyone will tell you, is a just as bad as SR is right now, but not as expensive). I had this great idea in my mind, an idea where these acid vendors were not just sellers of a substance, but the dispenser of joy and happiness and insight and understanding...and of course amazing visuals.
But my friends, this is not what we have. Instead, we have a few of the joy dispensers I mentioned above, and a market saturating majority of PEDDLERS, who don't care about what they sell, who they rip off and for how much. We've got vendors selling ten different products with fifty different listings, hundreds of orders a week...these vendors are just buying whatever their suppliers are calling acid and reselling on SR because WE are buying it...WE are the ones keeping these guys in the LSD market.
And of course we have the OUTRIGHT SCAMMERS, who knowingly rip us off without any hesitation, and then disappear. Unfortunately, there is no other way to find out if someone is scammer, unless people buy the stuff and see it's bunk or we have 50-60 people complaining about missing orders and lack of communication. These are the guys that driving up the price of LSD on SR, it is the SCAMMERS' faults that we are expected to pay $200+ for a ten strip! They are charging that much because THEY KNOW SOME PEOPLE WILL PAY! AND THEY MAXIMIZE THEIR SCAMMING PROFITS BY CHARGING MORE!
WELL I SAY ENOUGH!!!!! As long as WE keep buying THEIR fake LSD, then THEY will keep selling it. WE MUST BOYCOTT THE LSD MARKET ON SR. There is NO OTHER alternative, it is the only way we can get the fakers to get out. Unfortunately, the legitimate guys who are on here to supply us with quality LSD at a good price, they are going to take a hit for a while. Besides that, and not having any acid for AT LEAST THREE MONTHS, there are no downsides to this.
WE NEED RESTORE BALANCE TO THE SR LSD MARKET BY EXERCISING OUR POWER AS CONSUMERS! WE NEED TO SHOW THE SCAMMERS AND THE BULLSHITTERS AND THE CARELESS VENDORS THAT WE WON'T PUT UP WITH THEM ANY MORE. WE NEED TO BAND TOGETHER, WE NEED OUR INTERNATIONAL FRIENDS TO TRANSLATE THIS MESSAGE AND SPREAD THE WORD. FLOOD THE MESSAGEBOARDS WITH THE NEWS!!! BOYCOTT LSD FOR THREE MONTHS, KICK THE SCAMMERS OUT AND THE LEGITIMATE SELLERS WILL STILL BE HERE! GET THE PRICE BACK DOWN ON LSD, SO THAT WE CAN ALL AFFORD IT!
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POINTLESS
WITHOUT
NAMES
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You are looking at it only from the buyer perspective. You should consider that vendors also get scammed this drives the cost up plus packages get lost. Then Bitcoins need to be tumbled and exchanges which also cost money. Then the time they spend answering questions and processing and packaging orders. If you still want to make some decent money no wonder they charge 20 dollar a blotter i don't blame them. And if you don't like the prices don't order and stfu this is not walmart.
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You are looking at it only from the buyer perspective. You should consider that vendors also get scammed this drives the cost up plus packages get lost. Then Bitcoins need to be tumbled and exchanges which also cost money. Then the time they spend answering questions and processing and packaging orders. If you still want to make some decent money no wonder they charge 20 dollar a blotter i don't blame them. And if you don't like the prices don't order and stfu this is not walmart.
You don't even know what you're talking about. The vendors selling for $20 are the ones with the bunk. All the legit vendors that re-up once a month or so (and promptly sell out) are selling for reasonable prices. I don't believe vendors get scammed nearly as much as buyers, because a lot of people FE. So no, I don't think the sellers losing money is the reason why the prices have gone up. You clearly don't understand economics.
ADDITIONALLY, this is CLEARLY not walmart, but thank you for pointing it out. If it were WalMart, we'd be stuck paying what they charge. But this is a FREE MARKET, LIBERTARIAN ECONOMY WE HAVE HERE ON SR. We can interact with it as we please. If LSD buyers are getting scammed, then the LSD buyers need to do something about it, we need to stand up FOR OURSELVES. 1) It's our right 2) It's not SR's responsibility
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I have bought from almost every LSD seller within Europe and have payed about 15$ a tab which i think is reasonable. I mean a visit to a movie + popcorn drink costs me about 13 euros (in my country) and that lasts only about 2-3 hours tops. A tab lasts me 8-10 hours :) not to mention how much fun and that it opens my third eye.
If you look at it that way it's not that expensive. Maybe the US LSD vendors are rips i don't know that (rather not order overseas) but i do know that the acid i had was very nice.
Try ordering some Dutch LSD those gave me the best trips of all.
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never had problems with the EU ones, too.
But the wow I tried was yummy
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registration, that is not fun only, among other stuff it is a serious thing, like third eye and everything, so if people sees something that is unfair they are the right to take action. Beacuse of attitude also means. The only purpose of the whole thing to help people, isn't it?
My point we must protect fair vendors and buyers. And it took for me two days to decided from whom I will make my first purchase, I wish it wasn't so complicated :))
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The problem with the scams are: Sheets, and half sheets, and international orders:
Many vendors require international buyers to FE, and to take all the risk of the order not showing up.
LSD is the least detectable drug that can be sent by mail. And international buyers especially in Europe, where only very little vendors with good acid, mostly overpriced, exist, often have no other choice than to FE. Which opens all doors for scams. And since the only way to get fairly priced L is buying sheets of half-sheets, you get burned with a huge financial loss, if you get scammed.
My demand for US/Canada Vendors:
Don't require FE for european buyers, do a good shipment job, get DCNs to prove you sent the orders to prevent reverse scamming. Reduce the buying amount, without letting the prices rocket through the roof for anything less than half-sheets.
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I love people who complain about acid prices. Have you ever thought of how many years a vendor would get for taking the risk of sending acid through the mail. Yes, i know acid is one of the safest drugs to send through the mail, but still. They take a huge risk and i think they have the right to charge whatever price the believe is fair for them risking their freedom.
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^^^ I agree, vendors should be able to charge whatever they want. But if you charge a premium price for a non-premium product then that is fucked. I believe that is OP's point.
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Supply and demand..
Unfortunately LSD is really hard to make. But since it's active in the sub-milligram range, if a new lab starts producing, the market will be quickly flooded.
Pickard's labs allegedly produced 1kg of LSD every five weeks. That's 10.000.000 blotters.
For now, it's seems there is no supply
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HEY GUYS ILL HAVE MY PRINTER PAPER SHEETS UP IN 3 DAYS TIME - 300$ A SHEET - 1000 HITS - SUPER FINE WHITE ON WHITE!
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Walking into SR this last couple weeks I saw atleast 3 blotter prints that have been tested elsewhere as negative for LSD and have been proven other chems.
NOT ONLY THAT... These sheets are being sold for 800+? WTF...
The people making this crystal and the ones laying the bibles and all the people before these peddlers would be extremely disappointed.
I dont know how to fix it but it would be nice to see L back where its supposed to be. Where anything above $5 is something you could pass up...
paying like 40 for 1 or 2 hits makes me want to barf.
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only like less then 10% of sr use the forums. so you cant organize anything like this. nice try though.
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WELL...according to the amount of LSD listings, I would say supply is close to, or even meets demand and thus we have market clearing. That would make sense, because I never come onto SR and see every LSD vendor is sold out. THERE IS ALWAYS someone listing LSD. Therefore, once could even argue supply exceeds demand. But we all know that most of the listings on here are NOT LSD. So the problem is not with the actual supply of true LSD, the problem is that the market is saturated with non-LSD products that are being sold as LSD. Imagine if you went to the store to buy milk, but when you got home it was just white colored water. YOU WOULD NEVER BUY MILK FROM THAT STORE AGAIN, AND THAT STORE WOULD BE OUT OF BUSINESS VERY SOON. This is exactly what is going on here on SR with LSD, but the barriers of entry into the market (for a LSD vendor on SR) are almost nil. The proof of that is the long list of scammers that pop up and disappear.
Don't get me wrong. If I knew every post on SR was true LSD and it was $20 per tab, I'd be okay with it. But the thing you people are not realizing is that it's the fake lsd saturating the market that is causing the price to go up. If the scammers come and charge $20 for a tab of an RC that cost them less than a dollar per tab, the that is going to soon be the going price of LSD. A 400% price increase is unacceptable, even for this market.
BUT GUESS WHAT PEOPLE, WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. AND IT'S NOT HARD! IT'S SO EASY!!! JUST STOP BUYING ALLLLLLLLL LSD FROM ANY VENDOR, LEGIT OR ILLEGIT, AND CLEANSE THE MARKET. PURGE IT OF THE FILTH. I PROMISE, THE LEGITIMATE VENDORS WILL STILL BE THERE.
BOYCOTT THE LSD MARKET ON SR! GET RID OF THE SCAMMERS, BRING THE PRICES BACK DOWN AND BALANCE THIS MARKET! THE VENDORS ARE NOT GOING TO DO IT, THEY ARE MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY! WE MUST TAKE CONTROL OF THE MARKET WE SHARE WITH THE VENDORS AND RESTORE BALANCE!
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POINTLESS
WITHOUT
NAMES
You don't need names. A boycott means you don't buy from anyone. Once we all boycott, then the market stagnates, the fakes get out and the legit vendors will remain.
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Prices are pretty redic. Here in the US i've seen 10 strips for $40 regularly for the past 5-10 years, and still to this day. Maybe even $50-$60, but that's pushing it. I really would set up a sellers on here, but it's just not my cup of tea. Sorry guys, but if you come to the northeast you'll find it for that cheap ;)
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The LSD market is already working itself out. When there was like 60 listings that was pretty bad. I feel like most of the listings on there are just crap.
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I would love some LSD as I've not had it for almost 20 years....I've had various other psychedelics in the mean time but LSD is just not available to me locally and am more of a stims/depressants man with my drug use. I wanted to buy some off someone here but the price is ridiculous and as stated it is gonna be mostly RC's by the look of it on the forum and there are many, many alternatives these days at a fraction of the price of the LSD offered here. I'll stick with the 2C's and 25i until I can get a real sense that the tabs are Lysergic acid diethylamide.
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Instead of boycotting the market, how about everyone takes a moment to purchase some of 3Jane's LSD and take some time off to reflect on life? Trust me, you will not be disappointed. ;)
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A boycott means you don't buy from anyone. Once we all boycott, then the market stagnates, the fakes get out and the legit vendors will remain.
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NOT TRUE. Scammers will wäït änd wait and sell bullshit.
Only REAL TESTS FOR LSD can resolve problems.
Someone wiťh teșts mușt buy Lsd from all vendors ănd present resuľts - what ìs fake
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''A boycott means you don't buy from anyone. Once we all boycott, then the market stagnates, the fakes get out and the legit vendors will remain.''
NOT TRUE. Scammers will wäït änd wait and sell bullshit.
Only REAL TESTS FOR LSD can resolve problems.
Someone wiťh teșts mușt buy Lsd from all vendors ănd present resuľts - what ìs fake
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Yes, I don't think to totally boycott is the idea....Testing, now that is THE answer....I looked at 3Jane's listings and they state they have done a Marquis test...Some forum members have set up threads in the Cocaine section to test various batches of Coke. It would be great to have similar threads for most of the drugs on SR. Obviously the Dutch have access to walk in centre's where they can test drugs, not sure if acid is one, but this Marquis can be done by anyone if they can get the test kit. If anyone has these type of test kits it would be of great service to the community to test the tabs, if you buy and can spare a tab, and post the results. As if people are taking 25i etc instead of LSD, this could be potentially VERY dangerous as dosage of RC's needs to be very exact and can vastly vary between different compounds.
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''A boycott means you don't buy from anyone. Once we all boycott, then the market stagnates, the fakes get out and the legit vendors will remain.''
NOT TRUE. Scammers will wäït änd wait and sell bullshit.
Only REAL TESTS FOR LSD can resolve problems.
Someone wiťh teșts mușt buy Lsd from all vendors ănd present resuľts - what ìs fake
Yes, I don't think to totally boycott is the idea....Testing, now that is THE answer....I looked at 3Jane's listings and they state they have done a Marquis test...Some forum members have set up threads in the Cocaine section to test various batches of Coke. It would be great to have similar threads for most of the drugs on SR. Obviously the Dutch have access to walk in centre's where they can test drugs, not sure if acid is one, but this Marquis can be done by anyone if they can get the test kit. If anyone has these type of test kits it would be of great service to the community to test the tabs, if you buy and can spare a tab, and post the results. As if people are taking 25i etc instead of LSD, this could be potentially VERY dangerous as dosage of RC's needs to be very exact and can vastly vary between different compounds.
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I don't agree. That is remedy to the smaller problem, of LSD being passed as real. But the main problem is that people are KNOWINGLY selling fake LSD and reaping huge profits, because so many idiots are buying.
Testing is not the answer, getting rid of the scammers is the solution. Short of a boycott, I don't think anything will change. On top of everything, the scammers have really driven up the price. But, why is it the legit sellers are still selling for $5 USD - $7 USD per hit??? I know why.
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THIS IS WHY OUR LSD MARKET SUCKS!
http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/d87589368b
LOOK AT THE REVIEWS!!!!!!! This reputable seller is KNOWINGLY selling fake LSD. Even when people have come and told him, hey, I tried your stuff and it's bunk, HE IS STILL KEEPING HIS LISTING UP.
GET RID OF THIS SESAMPINO GUY! HE IS A CHEATER, A LIAR AND A FAKE. LOOK AT THE REVIEWS! THIS IS UNREAL AND UNACCEPTABLE! FUCK SESAMPINO! FUCK ALL THE OTHER FAKERS, FRAUDS AND CHEATERS. THESE PEOLE ARE RUINING A GOOD THING!!!! DON'T LET THEM DO IT!
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what silkroad vendors are known to sell real LSD?
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what silkroad vendors are known to sell real LSD?
3Jane, Del Ellis, (JonnyDeal & Envious when they are around) and I think Flying Dutchman if your outside of USA
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what silkroad vendors are known to sell real LSD?
3Jane, Del Ellis, (JonnyDeal & Envious when they are around) and I think Flying Dutchman if your outside of USA
LSDirect is also legit. The only problem is, none of them has a consistent source. It can be a couple months between legit sellers showing up. And when they do, it's usually gone within a few days.
Couple weeks ago, 3Jane was on, and her shit sold up in like 3-4 days.
But really, that's not the problem. I'm totally okay with there being a SHORTAGE of LSD...that's just how it's been for the last decade. But when there are 30+ listings, and 99% of the time, ALL of them are bullshit....well that is just NOT okay. NO OTHER market on SR has to deal with this bullshit. WHY SHOULD WE?
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Umm.. Vendors are doing YOU a service by taking all the risk of selling drugs to you through the mail. If you do not like it either a. go buy it in person or b. become a seller and sell acid for the prices that you think everyone should pay.
Or grow up and realize that you don't get everything you want. Quality and convenience come at a price.
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Umm.. Vendors are doing YOU a service by taking all the risk of selling drugs to you through the mail. If you do not like it either a. go buy it in person or b. become a seller and sell acid for the prices that you think everyone should pay.
Or grow up and realize that you don't get everything you want. Quality and convenience come at a price.
Amen to this. People love to bitch. Vendors could give two shits if certain people buy from them, because there will always be people who do. LSD is something that is hard for many to find, so why not jack up the price? Im sure these people bitching would be giving it away and paying for the shipping themselves. Take intro to economics, supply vs demand.
NO OTHER market on SR has to deal with this bullshit. WHY SHOULD WE?
from what I hear the cocaine market is shit too(im not involved in it). In my area it costs no more than 40/50$ a gram but people sell it for 100 on here, why...because someone in the middle of Alabama will buy it due to a lack of supply where they are. Look at the weed, people are paying 75$ an 8th when anywhere along the west coast you can get it for 40. A Vicodin costs 10 on some listing. The prices are high for everything besides MDMA, it is the only thing that is less expensive. I agree the LSD is easy to fake due to research chemicals and being completely bunk, but that is what the rating is for. Give them a 1/5 and blast them and if it really is everyone else will do the same and eventually sink them (look at DQB with pills, his rating is so low people stopped ordering and he went away for awhile, he is back and it will take awhile to try to rebuild) The demand on here will be difficult for anyone to keep up with I think
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I got a hit from GGW for free I am gonna try out and they are reasonably priced. I also got an eleven strip from Del Ellis that was fucking amazing and so god damn clean and currently have two on the way from Dimensional Traveler(so we will see) I have never ordered off of 3Jane but heard it legit, so is Del Ellis, so is GGW and time will see with DT. So the lsd market is not that bleak at least in the states. You just gotta get it when its hot, shit goes quick and yeah most of our buddies overseas are selling RC bullshit and other chemicals which are not LSD.
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''A boycott means you don't buy from anyone. Once we all boycott, then the market stagnates, the fakes get out and the legit vendors will remain.''
NOT TRUE. Scammers will wäït änd wait and sell bullshit.
Only REAL TESTS FOR LSD can resolve problems.
Someone wiťh teșts mușt buy Lsd from all vendors ănd present resuľts - what ìs fake
Yes, I don't think to totally boycott is the idea....Testing, now that is THE answer....I looked at 3Jane's listings and they state they have done a Marquis test...Some forum members have set up threads in the Cocaine section to test various batches of Coke. It would be great to have similar threads for most of the drugs on SR. Obviously the Dutch have access to walk in centre's where they can test drugs, not sure if acid is one, but this Marquis can be done by anyone if they can get the test kit. If anyone has these type of test kits it would be of great service to the community to test the tabs, if you buy and can spare a tab, and post the results. As if people are taking 25i etc instead of LSD, this could be potentially VERY dangerous as dosage of RC's needs to be very exact and can vastly vary between different compounds.
you don't use a marquis test on LSD buddy
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oh cool, i dunno what you do to test it but i was sure thats what 3jane had put on their listing that they had tested it using this method to eliminate the presence of something, thus proving it LSD?? im sure thats what they said....maybe i fucked it up/confused!? ha oh well, cant check now as listing not up....upon more thought and consideration, i'm gonna give 3jane a shot when they get some back in. seem like straight up vendors and the OP is takin this a bit far....Just stick to those vendors who have been mentioned here already, and if its a month between trips....so be it!!! its not that long to wait now is it!!? ha try another drug in the mean time to keep you occupied! plenty to choose from here!! ;) and yeah the price is high....but actually....i cant get it anywhere else...it is rare to most nowadays....fuck it, im gonna pay the money!!! you other members here have convinced me on 3jane!! wanted to grab some MDA off them too but it's gone also!!! haha hope its all back in soon.....
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Actually you CAN use a marquis test for LSD.
Check out the chart. LSD is in the column on the right.
http://www.bunkpolice.org/wp-content/uploads/Marquis-Infographic61.jpg
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NEVER buy LSD in the street or in a festival unless its your soulmate offering it!
There are too many research drugs that can be put on blotter - DOC is just one of dozens active at 1mg or so and long-lasting. I read a trip report on Erowid that was frightening! I mean hallucinating like mad 12 hours into the trip? Hallucinations VERY real but yet 'too false', no real 'deep connections' like you get on real LSD or mushrooms.
So, I have boycotted LSD.
My first LSD trip cost £2.50p. It was a microdot - some tiny 'dot' that was held between two pieces of thin see through paper. I was tripping from 7.00pm at night and still tripping at 4.00am. Came down gently around 6.00am but no way could I sleep after the experience. Now I see LSD costing a fortune and some taking 2,3,4 tabs to really feel it.
I really wanted LSD for my festival pack and sadly turned down some free LSD last year as I was not in the mood. Two trips were offered for me to take for later on. Should have took that offer but I thought LSD was easy to get.
Not so!
But some do have it - and those who have tripped will sure report it.
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TESTING IS NOT THE ANSWER!!! HALF OF THE BULLSHIT VENDORS SAY THEIR LSD IS TESTED 100% LEGIT. TESTING IS NOT THE ANSWER. TESTS CAN BE FAKED, TESTS CAN SHOW FALSE RESULTS, TESTS ARE UNRELIABLE, THE TESTER CAN BE UNRELIABLE.
TESTING IS NOT THE ANSWER! BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT!
I have said many many many times already, I don't mind high prices for REAL LSD. You can still get sheet here for less than $10 per tab. Price is not the issue here. It's the fraudulence, plain and simple. I don't care if there is fake LSD for $2 a tab, it's still fake LSD.
We have this core dilemma on our hands; we want to have this great, flowing, well-supplied market for LSD and we don't want to have to wade through the bullshitters. In a perfect world, we'd have that. But obviously we are not a perfect world, so we must operate how we can.
Supply of real, quality, LSD is always going to be a problem...that's just a fact of life. We are all aware of this and we accept it. But dealing with scammers doesn't have to be a fact of life, in a totally free market. As the consumers, we hold a lot of power in a high demand market. We don't have the power over price, unfortunately, but that is not a big deal. What we do have power over is, who to and who-not-to buy from. That is, quintessentially, what drives the market...is OUR demand for a product.
Right now, this market is ACTUALLY running at a major supply deficiency, but you wouldn't think by looking at the listings up. Over 40 listings for anything from single tabs to whole sheets. 99% of those listings are BULLSHIT. WHY ARE THEY STILL UP???
It is not SR's responsibility, unfortunately. To maintain a free market, they cannot regulate. I'm sure there is some minimum regulation they do, to maintain security and safety...but aside from that I don't think they get involved. It would be against the principle of a free market.
Again, I say, WE MUST BOYCOTT. I think, for the legit sellers than come around once in while...well there stuff sells out so fast it really doesn't make a difference.
On a final note. We cannot look at this as sellers doing buyers the favor or vice versa. This is a mutually necessary market. Without buyers, there is no need for sellers. Without sellers, there are no buyers. NO ONE HERE IS OUT TO DO FAVORS. That thinking is naive. Every seller here is looking to turn a profit, how much profit may be a testament to their character. Nonetheless, no one here is working for free and no one is doing ANYONE a favor. We all need each other. BUT THE ONE THING WE DON'T NEED, ARE BULLSHIT SCAMMING SELLERS TRYING TO STEAL MONEY FROM UNSUSPECTING BUYERS, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A GOOD THING AND INFLATING A MARKET THAT SHOULDN'T BE INFLATED!!!!
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Surly there are some good vendors out there?
People seem to like 3jane?
But I do agree completely. Mdma, shrooms, speed, and a few other products are so cheap on SR it puts LSD to shame!
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Hello. I still don't have any kind of experience with psychedelics except for salvia. I bought 10 dancing bear tabs from FartBomber (NL) and maybe I'll give a try on half tab tomorrow with friends,one of my friend tried last year half tab of (maybe-lsd). He told me the trip lasted about 7-8 hours,not visuals but sort of mind fuck like the time was really slow and shits,also a lot of laughs,didn't felt cold (it was in January,about -10°C outside here) and he enjoyed some nice music while tripping...so I think my friend tried real LSD and that's why I'll try the dancing bear tab with him. I don't have a LSD test now so I really can't tell if it will be acid but I hope so :)
But a thing :
A lot of sellers (NL ofc) said their tabs are lab-tested because of Netherland drug's facilities...so..I think these "lab results" are written in a sort of paper like medical ones...if a seller would be really honest just scan the picture of those lab results and put them on listings..if they really did those tests.. :)
Sorry for my English,I tried my best without using a translator eheh.
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Sadly, the drug testing facilities in NL don't give you something that could be scanned. They just tell you the results.
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Hello. I still don't have any kind of experience with psychedelics except for salvia. I bought 10 dancing bear tabs from FartBomber (NL) and maybe I'll give a try on half tab tomorrow with friends,one of my friend tried last year half tab of (maybe-lsd). He told me the trip lasted about 7-8 hours,not visuals but sort of mind fuck like the time was really slow and shits,also a lot of laughs,didn't felt cold (it was in January,about -10°C outside here) and he enjoyed some nice music while tripping...so I think my friend tried real LSD and that's why I'll try the dancing bear tab with him. I don't have a LSD test now so I really can't tell if it will be acid but I hope so :)
But a thing :
A lot of sellers (NL ofc) said their tabs are lab-tested because of Netherland drug's facilities...so..I think these "lab results" are written in a sort of paper like medical ones...if a seller would be really honest just scan the picture of those lab results and put them on listings..if they really did those tests.. :)
Sorry for my English,I tried my best without using a translator eheh.
I truly hope you bought legit LSD. But I doubt it. Pretty much all LSD from Europe seems to be bunk...RCs out the ass. It's hard to differentiate LSD from some RCs, if you have never had real LSD.
Good Luck. Please leave a review of your experience.
OH YEA! DON'T DO A HALF TAB! WHOLE TAB OR NOTHING! We have a saying around my house....ONE OR NONE!