Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: sanderb on September 27, 2011, 10:07 am
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What is the best way from bitcoins to cash? How do big sellers here do that?
I am not talking about 10 or 100, but more amounts like 10k- 50k, how do you get that to cash without having to reveal your identity at any point?
And also without raising suspicion as to the level of income, so having to use your own identity for WU or bank transfer is not ideal
This is just the one big question for me..
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I've never dealt with amounts that large, so this is just theoretical. You could arrange a face-to-face meet up (you'll need to identify yourself to a single person) or make a deal to receive cash via mail (risky since it could get "lost" or seized.)
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How do big sellers do this?
If you make even $500 turnover a day you need regular cash for supplies, does anyone know?
Also without having to deal person to person. I guess BTC to ATM is what i need, even if I would need to use10 cards or so if there are daily withdrawal limits.
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Sounds to me like anyone pulling in that kind of money can afford an alternate identity for a false bank account or WU transfers etc. Also, I recommend you keep all of your transactions to under $10k as that is where they must be reported to the IRS (if you are in the US). Anything above this amount should be broken up into smaller chunks. Most of the debit cards I have seen only allow a $10k-$20k balance anyway. Most only allow $500-$1500 a day to be withdrawn. Seriously if you are pulling in $50k at a time you need an dirty accountant and a shell corporation in Nevada.
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Thanks vanilla,
I have no problem with using a number of smaller debit cards at all. And I wouldnt want to send $10k bitcoins a go either. But to sell on SilkRoad it shouldnt be too hard to get to $500+ a day or more selling good quality at a good price and unlimited supplies..
That doesnt mean that that is profit of course. That is why it is so important to find an efficient way to get cash out and pay for supply. So based on the expected profit margin I can't really afford the dodgy ID etc route..
What debit cards etc. would be best to use getting cash out of an ATM while staying anonymous? (I don't mind having cards send to me). Imagine selling $500 a day, and getting that out using a few debit cards. What would be the best route? Exchanger and debit card combo?
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There have been multiple discussions about this on the board. The consensus is from silk road > wallet (instawallet?) > wallet (on computer or vm?) > exchanger for e currency of choice > debit card. People seem to be reluctant to reveal the actual providers used to do the exchange. There are several exchangers available that deal in the debit cards. Or Digital Express on SR has a debit card available as well if you prefer to use SR rather than an outside entity (there are limits to this option so read his listing thoroughly before buying). At the end of the day it depends on what e-currency you will use as an intermediary between BTCs and cash. Most of the major ones have an option for cashing out to a debit card. The cost is typically 5% or thereabouts total in converting bitcoins to cash. I recently got my card and have had no issues withdrawing funds.
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Well I am happy to use a card that can be loaded from Liberty Reserve or someway. But any useful card that can get $500+ a day from a cash machine will need ID etc. am I right?
I know by then there wont be a link between sales on Silk Road and the card, but there is still such a thing as the taxman etc..
Could you point to actually used debit cards maybe and a good discussion thread? Been searching for hours but still pretty hard to find quality info.
Thanks a lot.
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As I said there has been a lot of discussion about moving funds from SR to a debit card but no one really wants to say where they got the card. I have done some extensive research and have found a few that seem reputable. Most e-currency websites have a list of 'official' exchangers. This is where I got started in my search. Most e-currencies have at least 1 provider that will give you a debit card. As for taxes, the ID verification is solely for the bank's purpose. These banks are located outside the United States so they do not report to the IRS. They simply use the ID to verify there is a person attached to the account. Or if it is that big of a concern get a fake ID. I got one from ibanez88e on SR and it works nicely for this purpose. Chalk it up to a business expense. I wish I could come right out and say where you can get a card but everyone has been really tight-lipped about this and I don't want to break any unwritten rules that everyone seems to be abiding by. Start with your e-currency (in your case LR) and go to the part of their website marked 'buy/sell' or 'exchange' and there is an provider listed there that sells debit cards. This will be more or less the same no matter which e-currency you use. If you still need help PM me.
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Still looking into this..
I guess getting debit cards with a known LR exchangers is a good way, though i would still need to get a dodgy id for that.
Would Paxum be a good candidate? Decent limits and it takes money straight from MtGox. Looks pretty pro as well.
This one looks interesting, an exchanger that can send your money straight to any(?) VISA or MC cc card. I haven't seen that before, anyone heard of it before?
https://www.intexchange.com/vivodcard.asp
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Of course, the first step should be to spend as many Bitcoins as possible. Whatever you're buying, try to convince them to accept Bitcoins. In this way it will spread link-by-link through the economy.
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The best thing for the BTC economy is to buy/sell items USING bitcoins.
When you cash out, it depresses the price of bitcoins, especially if you really want cash bad and sell the BTC lower than they're worth.
That huge botnet out there mining coins is helping to depress our economy by a huge amount, I would imagine.
That being said... the narrow market for things you can buy with bitcoin mean you HAVE to convert to cash in order to eat, buy more products to sell, pay rent, etc.
It's a catch 22.
Just don't take too much of a hit when you sell bitcoins, stand firm on your price. If you've got like 10k+ bitcoins, you're a major player in the BTC market, and what you do with those coins will have a definite effect on the market.
-Proud
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You can get a couple Greendot cards, which let you cash out $500/day. It's pretty easy to find people willing to exchange BTC for their MoneyPak reloader.
You don't need an ID, just identity info, (SS# etc..) and a decent drop address. Keep each one to under $5000 / month and you should be fine.
Getting the identities can be tricky, but if you're too lazy to skim your own you can usually find people selling them on the deep web.
Otherwise LR and offshore business accounts are the way to go.