Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: CaneBlack on January 10, 2013, 11:41 am
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Never done H in my life. Got a dub of some powder H off a vendor and I am assuming to just crush it as fine as I can and grab a straw and sniff low dosages, being I have never done it, and go from there?
Any tips or advice or if my way is COMPLETE OFF base please let me know cuz I am bout to go for it like right now so yeah.... THANK YOU
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Never done H in my life. Got a dub of some powder H off a vendor and I am assuming to just crush it as fine as I can and grab a straw and sniff low dosages, being I have never done it, and go from there?
Any tips or advice or if my way is COMPLETE OFF base please let me know cuz I am bout to go for it like right now so yeah.... THANK YOU
what form of H do you have?
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do you have opiate tolerance?
start very-very low. like 2 mg.
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Never done H in my life. Got a dub of some powder H off a vendor and I am assuming to just crush it as fine as I can and grab a straw and sniff low dosages, being I have never done it, and go from there?
Any tips or advice or if my way is COMPLETE OFF base please let me know cuz I am bout to go for it like right now so yeah.... THANK YOU
what form of H do you have?
I believe it's "H" #3
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I heard H #3 is best taken down the japs eye. I can't vouch for this.
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if you got no3 you wont fel anything from snorting it.
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This is a good thread because I've been thinking about trying H for the first time. Snorting not injecting and I have no idea what I'm doing as far as buying? Not sure what the #'s are all about? And I'm assuming like Caneblack that you just crush it up and snort it. Obviously a small amount to test things out. Anyone have good info for first timers or a thread that would be good to read?
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do you guys not ever spend time reading erowid ?
everything you want to know and a good deal more you can never un-read is there, with handy indexes
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Yeah, I love Erowid but heroin is such a huge subject I thought it would be easier and better to ask an actual person.
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This is a good thread because I've been thinking about trying H for the first time. Snorting not injecting and I have no idea what I'm doing as far as buying? Not sure what the #'s are all about? And I'm assuming like Caneblack that you just crush it up and snort it. Obviously a small amount to test things out. Anyone have good info for first timers or a thread that would be good to read?
If you want to snort, you will want to go with #4. Most #4 you will find is already in powder form, so no need to crush. If you happen to get it in rock form, then yes, just crush it up to a powder. Easiest way to do that is on top of a hard surface and under paper money. You can smash with a lighter or a little cologne bottle or anything hard. Scrape anything that sticks to the bottom of the bill off with a credit card or ID. Chop up the flattened rock with the card until it becomes a fluffy fine powder, arrange into some thin, short little lines, and have a blast.
#3 is just a base heroin, and I believe that is really only good for smoking as is in that form. Smoking H is kind of tricky to do, so you will want #4. #4 heroin is more difficult to make, and it is stronger too.
If you are going to snort, stay away from black tar heroin, because that will make a mess in your nose.
You won't need very much either. Less than .1g a dose to start. Heroin is a very powerful drug, and people overdose all the time. It has killed many great men and women. The purity from batch to batch can vary, so even buying from the same person you will have to be careful each time you score. Start VERY SMALL. You can always take more if you don't feel anything. You can't take less, obviously.
The best way for you to learn whats up is to read around the forums to see what people say. Also erowid is a good place for information on all drugs, but I agree that heroin is a huge subject and erowid really isn't set up the best for learning about this particular drug.
Try this website out, it is pretty good: http://www.heroinhelper.com/
If you have any other questions, don't feel afraid or stupid to ask. There are a lot of people here who would be happy to assist you, ignore the assholes.
Always remember, heroin is playing with fire. You need to use responsibly, it is very easy to get carried away and sucked in. Once you start having withdrawals, you are addicted, and you will find yourself in a terrible cycle where your life becomes all about finding more opiates to make your sickness go away, it is not a good life. So if you still want to use, use responsibly. I can't stress this enough.
That website I gave you, heroinhelper.com, suggests a nice way to keep from getting addicted to heroin as you use.
That page is located here: http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/misc/chipper_tips.shtml
I suggest you follow that advice, it will help you remain a responsible heroin user and keep the drug fun, and it may just save your life. Trust me, I already died once thanks to one single heroin dose. I had to be brought back to life in the back of an ambulance. You do not want to have to go thru that. Be responsible.
Again, if you have any other questions, just ask. I would be happy to answer your questions as best I can, and there are a lot of people here with a lot of useful information.
B
P.S. Snorting it is the best way to go. You can make your bags last longer and you don't need to take as much all at once. It is also A LOT safer. The only benefit to shooting is a 30 second rush that honestly isn't even worth it. That is what went thru my mind after I first shot heroin, "that's it?". You can feel just as good blowing it, it is safer, easier to take smaller doses, and harder to OD. So the smartest thing to do is not ever IV. Tho I didn't even feel the injection was worth it after I first did it, I hardly ever snorted my heroin after that, I almost always shoot now. I just like the ritual, the prep, and I like that rush that is not even worth it, haha. So yeah, just be safe and smart and try to stick with snorting it. Good luck my brother.
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Thanks so much. I really appreciate the help and I'll check out the website.
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Just placed my first H order. I'm a little nervous and a little excited.
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I'm excited for you. Who did you order from? Be sure to let us know how you like it over at the heroin vendor thread.
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Now see the problem with reading one persons apparently informed opinion is it is dangerous.
And I'm not even any expert, but I can see the mistake right away.
0.1g is 100mg
if it was pure #4 and you snorted a whole 100mg, with no tolerance, it will get you into deep shit!
The correct answer is if it is #4 and nearly pure, maybe 90%, you try 5mg first and go up from there if it does nothing. 5mg is 20x less than .1g. We're talking smaller than the head of a match but you NEED a good scale with mg resolution.
There is an aussie #4 heroin vendor, read his product description, and his feedback. One guy bought 0.5g and given his initial experience he said it'd last him a month. Of daily use.
Be conservative don't approach the correct dose from the wrong side!
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The CrystalKing is on the H ?
I hope everything works out with your family emergency dude.
Looking forward to making another purchase from you.
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Now see the problem with reading one persons apparently informed opinion is it is dangerous.
And I'm not even any expert, but I can see the mistake right away.
0.1g is 100mg
if it was pure #4 and you snorted a whole 100mg, with no tolerance, it will get you into deep shit!
Hey man, I realize you are no expert, but you might want to read what I said again. I didn't say to start of with a .1g dose. I said he would need less than .1g. My exact advice was:
You won't need very much either. Less than .1g a dose to start. Heroin is a very powerful drug, and people overdose all the time.....The purity from batch to batch can vary, so even buying from the same person you will have to be careful each time you score. Start VERY SMALL.
I can't say much more than to start very small. You really can't give somebody dosing advice beyond that. Most people do not have a nice scale that can measure such small amounts, how is somebody going to weigh out 5mg? That is why I said less than .1, because when you place an order, it will usually come as .1g, .2g, .5g, and so on. So I think to say you need a very small amount, less than .1g is just fine advice. Do you not agree?
The correct answer is if it is #4 and nearly pure, maybe 90%, you try 5mg first and go up from there if it does nothing. 5mg is 20x less than .1g. We're talking smaller than the head of a match but you NEED a good scale with mg resolution.
The problem with this answer is it is assuming a lot. It is assuming the product is 90% pure, what if what you are getting is not 90% pure #4? Most times it is not, and vendors on SR, and most def dealers on the street usually do not list the purity percentage of their heroin. A scale is not required to be responsible with your heroin use. You just need to make sure to start small, that is really all you can say and being more precise after saying you need less than .1g is meaningless if the person doesn't have a scale on hand. I understand what you were trying to say, but you misread what I said. I think you got a little too excited to give dosing advice yourself, coming in with the "correct answer", even after you admitted that reading a person's opinion is dangerous. Do you see the irony in that?
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I ordered China White from Supremesmoke. I'm not dumb. I'm a bit paranoid of H so I plan on starting out very small. Very small. I placed a couple of orders of pure Opana and started very small to judge how it would hit me. I plan to start even smaller on H. I appreciate your advice Batin. I read the website you suggested and plan to use it occasionally and to go very small on the amount and if I need more another very small amount. I respect what H is and will handle it accordingly. Of course I'm fully aware that these could be the last words of a fool and I'll be out stealing bikes and DVD players for my next fix ;)
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Are stamp bags typically #3 or #4
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Are stamp bags typically #3 or #4
Stamp bags are usually #4. If it dissolves in water, it is #4.
Many people focus on the physical aspect of opiates, because of how damaging they are to the body, but also because of the high itself.
Actually, opiates are not very damaging to the body at all. In fact, they are one of the physically safest drugs you can use, in terms of not causing physical damage to your internal organs or body, as long as you are not taking opiates mixed with acetaminophen such as vicodin or percocet.
But, even though the physical addiction is what makes it impossible to quit heroin, it's the psychological mind-find that leads to the physical addiction.
Nothing is impossible, I know people who have been able to kick the habit. You are exactly right though, it is the psychological addiction that will lead to the physical addiction. If you let your physical addiction get bad enough it will be very difficult to quit, but the worst part of the physical addiction, the terrible withdrawals, goes away after a week or two for long time heavy users. Then, depending on how much and how long you used, your brain chemistry might be a little whacky and you will be low on energy for another 30 days to 6 months, this is known as post acute withdrawal syndrome, but after that the physical addiction will pretty much have faded. At that point, it becomes a struggle against the psychological addiction, urges or cravings to use, remembering those great feelings you had being triggered by people, places, events, songs, feelings, and all kinds of things. For some people this is a lifelong struggle, but by no means is it impossible not to use, you just have to take it one day at a time.
Your brain and your ego are your worst enemies when it comes to opiates. Don't ever believe you 'can't' get addicted, and if you do it more than once per week, don't ever think you 'aren't' addicted, despite what your mind will try to convince you.
It is accurate to say your mind and therefor your ego are your worst enemies when it comes to opiates. Your brain is very good at rationalizing your behavior, and as you slip into addiction your thought process can become skewed and you may do things you wouldn't normally do, which could lead to irresponsible use, then abuse, then addiction. It is possible to use a drug and not become addicted, though. I drink alcohol occasionally, but I am not addicted to alcohol. I have also used cocaine before, but I never got addicted to cocaine. It is possible to use opiates without becoming addicted, but everybody is different. There are some people out there who really can't use opiates without getting addicted. There are some people who can't used cocaine or alcohol or coffee without getting addicted, it depends on the way your brain is wired. If you find yourself losing control early in your experimentation with a certain drug, then it might be a good idea to discontinue its use immediately.
And hey, tcobambientAgain, good choice ordering from supremesmoke! I ordered from him last week and he has some seriously beautiful H. It is really really good. Be careful with that stuff, and enjoy!
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As difficult as it is to believe for the uninformed, very pure heroin or 100% pharmacy grade opiates aren't as bad for the body as one would normally think. Long term usage will obviously cause problems, but the serious issues usually arise from other causes related to the usage. Despite the fact that it's a HIGHLY potent and a very dangerous substance for the uninitiated, it's theoretically much safer for the brain and organs than many other drugs. It still has its side effects, so don't think I'm saying it doesn't.
A lot of the damage to the liver, limbs, heart, brain, etc. have come from the lifestyle or the substances added to the drug. I used to live near the 'heroin capitol of the country' (as it was called many times), so I've seen nearly every negative effect. I'm also an ex-addict (heroin & cocaine, but heroin was the DOC - the coke was added for a speedball when money was good). I would never do coke w/out heroin, and I would never even do a line of it now if I didn't have a benzo to ease the comedown (hypothetically speaking).
I've seen friends severely damage or shut down their livers from the acetaminophen in pills (one actually died from that and not the Oxycodone in his system, his tolerance was that high), lose limbs, have veins shut down, acquire abscesses from missing the vein while injecting, and a host of other ailments. The cutting agents, the people involved in procurement, the dirty, shared, & constantly reused syringes - those are the truly dangerous parts of heroin. It's the lifestyle that usually gets you in the end (if you don't overdose).
The problem is that getting very pure *anything* is virtually impossible, be it heroin, coke, you name it. The city I used to live in used to do tests on the street heroin and found things that would astound you; one of them was crushed up glass. Another was rat poison. This stuff didn't kill the people outright, but it did quite a number on their veins, their hearts, their livers, you name it. I mentioned in another thread how I ran into a dealer I knew at the gas station; he stated that he was still cutting his crap dope with stuff life Fentanyl to help reproduce the side effects (he gets it very cheap), even after all of the deaths associated with that practice.
Please don't think I've advocating the use of heroin or any opiate. If you haven't tried it, I wouldn't suggest it. I was an addict from college throughout my entire twenties. It took a lot of pain, agony, and persistence to get clean, and its a miracle (or good luck, whatever you believe in) that I'm not in jail, don't have a disease (such as hepatitis C, which is very common among IV users), or just plain dead. I don't even have a record, and I don't know a 'using buddy' that I ran with that didn't have some kind of possession, distribution, DUI, etc.
I haven't been an addict for years, but I'll admit that I'm the rare ex-addict that occasionally gets high. I actually found a small bag of raw that's good for a shot or two when I was moving last week, and I've held on to it. I'll do it at the right time, but I doubt I'll flush it or give it away. The drug is like that.
My advice to new users (because this is why I started writing this post): if you're insistent on trying it, be careful. Try to be around someone that's familiar with the drug the first time you use it - just don't go looking for an addict, because they'll stick to anyone and call you every day for a ride, somewhere to hang, or just someone to get high with. Misery loves company, I'm just one of the exceptions that preferred to be alone most of the time.
...your brain will start telling you that there is nothing wrong with the drug. Your brain and your ego are your worst enemies when it comes to opiates. Don't ever believe you 'can't' get addicted, and if you do it more than once per week, don't ever think you 'aren't' addicted, despite what your mind will try to convince you. Respect the drug, mind your ego, and be safe.
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Everything you stated was accurate, except when you said opiates do not damage the body. That is very far from the truth, and if you're in disbelief simply google: "long term side effects of ingesting opiates" and do your homework. You may know people without complications after successfully cleaning up their act, as do I. But I also personally know two people suffering from long-term physical damage caused by opiates.
The first thing I'll note is that the one friend, is recovered(heroin). The other, is addicted(OC's and Roxis). Neither one of them drink alcohol... both have lost a kidney to the cause. The latter one is actually suffering from liver-disease which is a direct result of eating opiate(pills) all day-erry'day. The recovered heroin addict is much younger, but has very little cartlidge left in his knees and has developed rheumatoid arthritis as a direct result of prolonged use. -One can also note, that opiates(esp. H) are appetite suppressants. This will undoubtedly lead to malnourishment of the body, causing general damage to the body.
Again, everything else you stated was good info... but don't think for a second that opiates aren't physically damaging. That's nutty. :P
No, I was accurate in what I said. Everything an individual ABUSES in high doses damages the body or mind in some way, but relativity speaking, opiates are one of the least physically damaging substances of all drugs you can take. This is why they are prescribed for people with chronic pain to be used long term, they are relatively safe. Besides an overdose and short term effects while the drug is active in your system, such as respiratory problems, the danger of opiates is purely in its addictive properties. Also, the method of ingestion plays a role, for instance, blowing opiates thru your nose can wear away at nasal tissue, and injection can cause all kinds of problems, but opiates by themselves do not cause physical damage. I actually know this from discussions with doctors and research, I have done my homework.
If your friends have liver and kidney problems from their opiate use, it is most likely because the opiates they were using had acetaminophen in them, or some other chemical that was added to the mix. The chemical substance of opiates themselves do not cause long term permanent damage to the physical body or internal organs. I actually googled what you told me to google, and none of the results said anything about physical damage, honestly. If you don't believe me, do the google search yourself and try to find a website that claims that opiates alone cause any kind of physical damage. You also mentioned something about a friend having arthritis problems, so I did a search on that too. There is no research whatsoever that attributes opiate use to arthritis. If your friend has problems like that, it is likely an individual condition that he would have suffered anyway. I don't see how his heroin use could be directly related to the cartilage in his knees wasting away, that makes no medical sense. Opiates effect brain chemistry, and not the physical body.
The previous post by Thestral1 backs me up, opiates are actually pretty safe in terms of not causing long term physical damage. I am in no way saying opiates are a safe drug, they can cause many problems, they kill people, and ruin lives, but they will not ruin your liver like aspirin and alcohol and will not destroy your heart like cocaine. If you are going to use a hardcore drug, then opiates are a pretty safe choice, physically speaking. This does not mean they are safe, however. Do not think I am saying that. Opiates are playing with fire, and you will do well to always remember that if you choose to use.
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you feel GREAT. So good, that your brain will start telling you that there is nothing wrong with the drug. Your brain and your ego are your worst enemies when it comes to opiates. Don't ever believe you 'can't' get addicted, and if you do it more than once per week, don't ever think you 'aren't' addicted, despite what your mind will try to convince you. Respect the drug, mind your ego, and be safe.
+1 for these words of wisdom. A truly addictive substance is the one that's gonna make you think that there is no reason to be worried about its use, that it is actually ok to do it, even when you know it's not. Your mind on addictive drugs is your worst enemy.
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Just don't do it.
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Hi CaneBlack,
Like you, I have made my 1st purchase from SR, #3 Afghan from Topnotch & seeing as he appears to have good ratings I'm (fingers crossed), hoping all goes well. I expect I'll get it Tuesday & then looking forward to re-meeting H.
I used to smoke H, never got into IV, & smoking still gives you a great rush and I think saves your nose,mind you when I did snort I still loved it.
I was last detoxed about 30 yrs ago in 83 & ever since H has been like a long lost lover that I have never got outa my head. I'm 57 now & took early retirement and decided that I'm so fed up with Tramadols, Solpadene Max and all the other crap I have been poisoning myself with over the years.
Like most of the advise I see here is very good and very helpful andI know I'm dicing with serious shit, my plan is to take no more than twice a week MAX. But I know already that I have a battle with my brain.
At the moment I booze alcohol at weekends and then alternate with some foul tasting sleeping tab I get of my GP and Nytol & take these Solpadene Max between 5 & 8 every single day, which I know the paracetamol is gradually destroying my liver etc.
Last week I jumped on a train & found myself wandering around Kings Cross feeling like a total knobhead trying to score. So this SR site looks like it could save me all the hassles of streetwalking and hanging out with serious users and just keeping together.
Anyway, sorry to ramble, and I probably sound like the knobhead I'm trying not to be & good luck. As everyone says, start your dose really really small & be absolutely determined not to go beyond a few times a week.
Cheers
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So I thought I'd tell about my first time snorting H after posting to this thread a few times looking for info.
I had used Opana powder for the past two weeks and thought it was pretty good stuff.
Got my package on Monday and was obviously a bit scared. So I started out small on the China White. Really small bumps. It turned out for my first time it took me about 8 times the amount of Opana powder to feel the same effect. I was fine for a few hours and then started feeling sick to my stomach and thought I was going to throw up a few times. It was good high, other than feeling sick. Much longer lasting than any pharmaceutical opiate I'd taken. So I skipped a day and yesterday started out very small again. Just snorted two bumps, I'd say about 1/5 of what I used on Monday and it was a different experience. I felt it pretty much immediately. Not sure why I needed so much less and the high was so much more intense. My pupils were looked like someone basically stuck a stick pin in a sheet. Never seen them that small before. Like I said, the effect lasted for many hours. Didn't feel sick to my stomach at all. A good overall feeling. I think once my 1/8 is used up I'm going to cross H off of my list of drugs I've done and not look back. It's a good experience. Didn't take enough to get a nod going. Just a little paranoid about going to far.
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Okay, you got me. I actually didn't bother googling what I told you to google, as I don't get my information on the web.
So, I'll start again by saying that you're correct - 'most of the time' liver damage associated with opiate use is mainly contributed to the APAP in opiate-delivering pills. As well, one can argue that the impurities in heroin are more dangerous than heroin itself, just as the cutters in cocaine are often far more dangerous than cocaine itself. However, this does not mean that the opiates themselves pose no risk to the liver, and to think so would be to not know how the liver functions. It is commonly understood that Tylenol(acetaminophen) is horrible on the liver, in fact, one of the worst things your liver can attempt to process. So, yes, any opiate with acetaminophen is going to jack up your liver bad. As well as the 'lifestyle' of people who use Roxi-codone(no APAP) and OCs(no APAP) having a tendency to drink alcohol while under the influence. Furthermore, Ibuprofen, is arguably one of the harshest OTC medications you can put in your belly, as it is highly damaging to the lining of the stomach, as well as Aspirin.
But let's not forget only true unadulterated authentic naturally occurring opiates(morphine, opium) will convert to endogenous morphine(endorphins) in the body. Synthetic opiates most definitely fall into the realm of liver toxicity, and with time will do some damage. This is all common knowledge, or common sense.
Here are facts that might not be common knowledge to those who never studied within the pharmaceutical, pharmacological, biochemical, or organic chem fields:
1. Opiates slow down and destroy the body's GI System. Long term use of opiates will damage to the lining of the colon and intestine over long periods of use, due to constant constipation. As well, it is likely that long term users will experience stomach ulcers and even acid reflux disease. While it is understood that Aspirin and Acetaminophen do a number on the stomach and liver, the opiates themselves will lead to damage due to their side stand-alone effects, such as eating/appetite loss and overproduction stomach acids. This can also be paired with damage associated with vomiting due to withdrawal, which further allocates the damage up the esophagus lining.
2. Opiates lower your heart rate, withdrawal symptoms can/do cause heart palpitations. Opiates will lead to erectile dysfunction over time due to decreased blood flow, and eventually, long term opiate use will lead to an arrhythmia of the heart putting you at serious risk for stroke, and cardiac arrest.
3. Opiates decrease the body's respiration rate, over time building up secretions in the lungs that can lead respiratory infections and other complications such as pneumonia and pulmonary edema.
4. Opiate use causes individuals to be less active paired with slowing the function of oxygen delivery to the joints in your extremities. Lowered levels of blood and oxygen to the ever-so-fragile, and weight-bearing knees WILL lead to arthritus. Not 'can' ... WILL, fact. Inevitable for most of us. Opiate use, speeds this process up(by slowing you down). Also, common sense about the short-term opiate effects(that you all know) such as forgetting minor injuries, forgetting actions, and not feeling 'subtle' pains in the body while under the influence(which for some users is as often as possible) paired with the aforementioned blood/oxygen flow decrease, is a bad combination if you're trying to get longevity out of your knees and hips.
Again, common sense for anyone who took human anatomy and pharmacology in college. I took 2 years of both. Not exactly on par with "discussing it with a doctor", but hey... he went to school to put you on the drugs, I went to school to know what they actually do to you on a microbiological and pharmacological level. But hey, what do I know! ::)
Listen dude, the bottom line is that relatively speaking, opiate use is one of the safest drugs you can use in terms of not causing physical damage to the user. That is a medical FACT. You can list possible physical dangers for every kind of food or drug in existence, but that does not mean the food or drug is especially physically dangerous. Compared to drugs like cocaine and alcohol, the long term use of which literally destroys the physical body, opiates are safe. You use cocaine and alcohol, don't you? Would you go to someone who is interested in trying cocaine or alcohol for the first time and say, "yea or just listen to this guy and don't try it [because it is so bad for you]"? I somehow doubt that. So why would you come in here with false information (when you claimed that opiates are physically damaging to the body) and then fight me when I correct you because you can think of some scenarios where physical damage may occur and you took some fancy college classes? I can tell by your profile that you think you are a real smart guy, but you need to accept that you are not always right.
But let's not forget only true unadulterated authentic naturally occurring opiates(morphine, opium) will convert to endogenous morphine(endorphins) in the body. Synthetic opiates most definitely fall into the realm of liver toxicity, and with time will do some damage. This is all common knowledge, or common sense.
False, this is incorrect, misleading information. You are right, some schools of thought only consider chemicals derived directly from the poppy to be considered "opiates", such as morphine and opium, and chemicals such as heroin and oxymorphone are "semi-synthetic" opioids, but so what? Morphine does not convert to endorphins, endorphins are neurotransmitters, and morphine in the brain mimics these neurotransmitters. That is how you get high. Opioids such as heroin usualy get converted to morphine, not to anything toxic to the liver. You are simply wrong, this is misinformation. Here is a fact with a source:
"Opioid analgesics do not cause any specific organ toxicity, unlike many other drugs, such as aspirin and acetaminophen. They are not associated with upper gastrointestinal bleeding and renal toxicity"
- Schneider JP. Rational use of opioid analgesics in chronic musculoskeletal pain. J Musculoskel Med. 2010;27:142-148.
So right there most of your claims have just been tossed out the window by the doctors and researchers you tried to talk down on thanks to some college classes you took. Congratulations.
Lets look at your list:
#1
Talk about hearsay, your entire number one is controversial and none of it is entirely fact, although you are trying to pass it off as such. This is also your strongest point too, because yes, the main physical effect caused by opioids demonstrated in research is constipation, and it is possible it could cause some GI system issues. This is not universal however, everybody is effected differently and to a different extent. I have never had much trouble with bowel movements during my use, I have never had trouble eating. Constipation doesn't always lead to long term physical damage, it depends on the individual, and you need chronic, high level abuse to get serious, permenent GI problems like ulcers and acid reflux. I'm talking like ridiculous amounts every single day for years. This kind of abuse would be extremely difficult to sustain, and your casual user would not have to worry very much about these issues.
#2
You wouldn't have much integrity to try to pass #2 off as straight fact. Heart trouble such as arrhythmia of the heart is only an issue with certain synthetic opiates such as methadone., and even then, the risk of cardiac trouble compared to drugs like cocaine and amphetamines is minimal. If you are going to pick a hard drug to use, opiates are still the safest.
#3
These are not facts. The only fact you have here is that opiates can slow respiration. As far as this causing long term physical damage, there are many many outside factors that would attribute to that. I couldn't really find any information on the internet to support this claim of yours. The risk of respiratory infection or infections in general, as well as pneumonia and pulmonary edema are pretty much caused by poor intravenous injection skills .
#4
This is more speculation than anything. No facts, you are just saying stuff that sounds like it could be true. Again you make a claim that has no research backing it up. This is not common sense. There is no research out there that links opiate use to arthritis. Sorry man, there just isn't. Look it the fuck up. In fact, there is research that suggests opiates may be used to treat arthritis. Anyway, the problems you listed here are mainly the consequence of poor lifestyle choices, and not direct effects of opiates on the body. We are talking about opiates as a drug, not opiate users as people.
I wasn't trying to be like: "You're wrong" ... but I have to point out facts vs. assumptions and hear-say. Especially when you're posting in a thread that aims to coach people who are riding the Black Stallion for the first time.
Just sayin...
Don't condescend to me. You weren't trying to say I'm wrong? That seems to be exactly what you are trying to say, especially when you close with your smart ass "I went to college" bs. It doesn't matter what education you have if you are wrong, and yes, I am saying you are wrong. A medical doctor, especially one who specializes in drugs and addiction, is going to know more than a guy who took two years of classes on pharmacology and human anatomy. I'm sure those where two big years, and I am really proud of you for getting thru that, but it doesn't give you the right to come in here and try to diss opiates for one of its pros. It has enough cons, it is playing with fire, it is dangerous, but what it is not is a huge risk for physical damage. That category is reserved for drugs like alcohol, cocaine, ecstasy, amphetamines, methamphetamine, and certain designer drugs.
You didn't point out any facts, you exaggerated facts to try to prove me wrong. The bottom line is relatively speaking, opiates are one of the physically safest drugs you can take. This is true. And how could you come into a thread that "Aims to coach people who are riding the black stallion for the first time", as you say it, and tell them, "Just don't do it"? You are not our mom, we didn't come hear to hear some guy who likes some drugs way worse than opiates tell us we should stay away from them. Know what I'm saying? That made me mad.
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hey heroin experts, is this normal (for some)?
trying heroin (china white, #5, or whatever it is called) hasn't revealed why it is so scary / great / uber addictive.
First, I tried snorting, not IV. If the only way to experience the magic of heroin is to IV it, forget it.
So snorting. I explored doses varying from 5mg to 20mg, on a few different occasions over the last few weeks. Go small, I start to feel heavy, for want of a better word. But still functional. Slight mood lift. This lasts for 4 or so hours then eases.
If I do more than the above small dose, I feel somewhat nauseous and there are stronger head spins when I'm walking. The effects last longer. In that state I prefer just to lie horizontal. I stare at the ceiling as the head spins are lessened. My body feels heavier and I get more trouble regulating my temps. I also start itching. Quite a lot of itching. I don't feel euphoric, I just feel .. sedated.
Then I wait a week, and to remind myself that ecstasy is better and take a pretty mild dose of MDMA -- I feel AMAZING for about 4 or 5 hours.
The H is mildly pleasant, with side effects, about 2/10, and the MDMA is 8/10 with no side effects.
I'm told MDMA is like heroin on training wheels but for me, this opiate is just a pain. Expensive, anti-social, side effects, physically addictive (a couple of days after, I felt the need to do it again) but not actually _enjoyable_. I can feel if I were to snort it regularly, I'd want to keep doing it. but not to get high! just because my body wants some, to feel normal.
My conclusion is for snorting this particular #5, I felt like I was picking up smoking again: Yeah, a bit relaxing. Yeah, I know if I force myself to smoke a pack over a week I'll be a smoker again. First few cigs will make me physically sick, then I'll have a habit and need it to not snap at people. not worth it!
Is this just how heroin IS for some? or should I be smoking #4 off foil, to get a glimpse of the magic?
Just hypothetically -- I've already decided I'm not going to experiment with it more. I just want to know. Maybe I should have done more, enough to make me puke? is it a drug where there is a dose barrier to find and cross?
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I just finished off a stamp bag of #4 after about 5 years of zero opiate use. IV'd 15mg and got the best rush and full body glow for about 4 or 5 hours.
Different drugs have different effects on different people. Maybe your body wont tolerate and allow opiates to work as someone elses body will? Who knows...?
I vomited for a couple of hours (empty stomach) the first time i used heroin, after that though, recreational use was amazing (weekends). And still, after 5 year hiatus from opiates, it still works amazingly well :)
If your not gonna finish your bag of dope, send it to me ill buy it! :P
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Real insightful article and its amazing how most people assumew opiates are the DEVIL and other drugs, far less dangerous!
The real danger with heroin is that your dealing qwith an uregulated drug market and the hygeine standards of the people making the heroin are not going to impress any chemist in proper lab.
Same with coke, and there are more people fucked uo on coke than heroiun. Coke seems more 'acceptable', coke is 'clean; and heroin 'dirty', that is the mindset of many drug users and its hypocritical as abusing coke can make you worse than someone abusing heroin.
One other danger with heroijn is that it is the worlds greatest painkiller. This meansd mental as well as physical. I am convinced many users have used heroin to hide from problems which spiralled and led to addiction.
Young women and guys are in danger also as older people prey on addicts, Fact of life and I've seen it time and time again.
When the brain first experiences heroin, your sending a message that here is a medical rememdy that really works! Psychological addiction is rife mainly as people have lives with little stimulus in them - its easy to put someone in rehab, but if they come out and face the same life, its not surprising many will take up the habit again.
I think herpin addicts should be given pure heroin and would demand they turn up to some local clinic to be injected.
As for cocaine, you cannot giver someone pure cocaine and expect them t live a normal life, with heroin yes,but coke IS very damaging when used lomng term. Not least with the levisnole wormimng agent being found in many batches and now RCs are starting to appear in UK coke cut so much there is barely any coke left! To give the powder some 'ummpph', RCs are added. There is talk of new RCs out there not yet publicised which can emulate the effect of coke.
If given a choice of beckming a heroin addict, with access to pure heroin, or a coke addict, with access to pure coke, I think the heroin addict would be attending the funeral of the coke addict.
Of late, a buddy of ours got cancer and his dioc asked about coke use and warned him not to use it due to the white blood cell count being lowered. Remember, cocaine will actually rot your flesh if you do enough of it! Lately, I've passed down a few nights out on the beer and coke, even though its top Mex sourced coke. A few of the guys are using dexamfetamine and claimj its as good as coke, no need to stuff powder up youe nose and doses of 5mg at a time help anyone get s bit chtty and feel euphoria.
RCs are more dangerous than heroin, few could take RCs daily, even taking weekly has left some a bit battered.
The main danger in heroin addiction is that yopu might use dishonesty more often than most folk. Families and friends turn their back against you when you starr robbing them.
If your going to become a heroin addicy, try and be rich!
My advice is don't experiment with heroin - go as far as opium and go no futher.
I will be honest and say most funerals I go to when its someone died young its usually the booze.
I have a friend who has been an addict for 25 yr or so - he works, owns his home, has qualifications and is VERY meticulous about hygeine.
He eats well and functions just like anyone else, I would leave him in my home without fearing the 40 inch TV has vanished! He earns enough, not sure what he spends but he must buy bulk. He cleans it (never asked how) never shares needles and used to get diamorphine as part of some pilot scheme. he project was a success, heroin addicts given access to oure heroin soon looked healthy again and either found work or educational studies..
The main problem many have is that the 'heroin' they buy is contaminated on purposem with biulking agents that wuill do damage if injected, many heroin users daily - whilst coke, most I know use it only a few times a year although I got mayes who can do an 8 ball in a wk-end with ease. Trouble is coke can cause heaert problems and certainly anyone who has snorted coke for a few years will have that Bob Dylan 'twang'.
More people die of obesity than heroin addiction but one pleasure (gluttony) is seen as better than pain relief which is why most heroin addicts use.
It wpould be impossible to put heroin on general sale in a shop - its too addicxtive to advertise. I wonder if legalising medical usage might lead to many younger people taking up the offer of free drugs for life,
What made me realise people will do anything for heroin is when a local beauty queen picked up an addiction and was selling herself to men in their 60s and 70s, viagra making it all possible.
Many prostitutes are futher enabled as addicts due to the horrible lifesryle they have.
Some are just selfish, women who would sooner chase the fragon and some latest bboyfriend than look after the kids.
Its down to economics, if you have a real good job and can afford an addiction and all the precautions needed to purify the heroin you doo better than someone who is running out of the local supermaket with an armful of meat and whose income is anything from 50 to 180 pounds of benefits,
Hundreds of addicts have mssing limbs due to clots caused by injecting with impurities and non sterile methods.
I've seen a guy no legs and one arm - and he was still using!
If your curious about heroin - try its little cousin opium.
And good luck to anyone battling addiction or trying to afford it!
I'd advise people to NOT have that first go of heroin which is enough for most to end upo addicted for decades with lives that are pretty dull.
Rich heroin addicts are likely having a greatr time!
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heres is the deal.
you have weak will power. you are fucked, because you are just finding a reason to fill that 'crack' of your shell with something to escape your problems or whatever the fuck.
more importantly if you shoot up you more than likely fucked regardless.
but the drug is NOT overpoweringly addictive. i literally tried every damn drug thanks to this wonderful website...(minus SOME RC's)
the only one i can say, or really...class that either I HAD a problem, was in the Stimulant category. That is mainly though from curiousity mixing with what I found out to be undiagnosed ADHD....so thank you SR, cause i got this treated now. (therapist first...then just some conditioning and finally, a script..which i do not abuse).... but i guess im not that fucked in the head to 'lose' myself to a drug.
so, when it comes to this mythical all powerful-end all addiction that everyone puts behind, whatever drug, be it heroin, coke, meth, crack...its all bullshit....the addiction is attached to the person. not the drug.
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I'm here speaking truth, from extensive reading of medical journals on this very topic. Med. journals... you know? The Standard of the field? If google were the standard, we'd all be dead or dying due to misinformation.
You are not speaking the truth though. I used a fact from one of these medical journals that you hold in such high esteem which contradicts your claim that opiates are physically damaging to the body. They are not. That is what you are wrong about, and that is what I am debating you about. I don't care if you went to college. I am not defending my habit. I am telling you that you are wrong about something. I backed my claim up with a fact from a medical journal. So what do you have to say about that, prof?
Let's stop the pointless debate. I get it. You're a user. You're butt-hurt that someone is "dissing your drug, yo" ... Even though I'm really not. Hence the above commendation of the newb who used for his first time!
It is not a pointless debate. You are spreading disinformation in a thread where people who curious about heroin are coming to learn something, and I have called you out on it, and provided the correct information. You don't get it. You are a condescending asshole. This isn't about me and what drugs I take. This is about you being wrong about something. You are wrong, just grow up and deal with it.
ONE of us knows what we're talking about. The other, is defending themselves and their habit. Opiates are "Relatively" safe. You've made you're point. I am not wrong in what it does to the body, and who are you to tell me I am? I've studied this, you clearly have not "Damn yanks and yer Fancy faggy college edumacations!, yeeehawww"
Beat it, dumb-dumb.
You are right. I know what I am talking about. You are vainly trying to defend yourself as some kind of an expert because you went to school. Good for you. That doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. You say you studied this, but you seem to have missed all the data that shows that opiates are non toxic. I even cited a medical journal that says this.
For a college educated doctor type, you sure seem immature. What are you, 16 years old? Calling me a redneck and a dumb dumb because I proved you wrong? How do you know I'm not a college educated person like you? What makes me a southern red neck? Asshole.
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Batin, did it take you 3 months to read my last message? Or 3 months to formulate a rebuttal that is just a simple reiteration and reversal of my last response to you?
Get the fuck out of here, no one cares.
dont mean to add fuel to the fire but...gonna be honest Batin, festivalia pretty much nailed it.
you must have been in a middle of a nod session during your attempt at a comeback.
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
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This is a good thread because I've been thinking about trying H for the first time. Snorting not injecting and I have no idea what I'm doing as far as buying? Not sure what the #'s are all about? And I'm assuming like Caneblack that you just crush it up and snort it. Obviously a small amount to test things out. Anyone have good info for first timers or a thread that would be good to read?
If you want to snort, you will want to go with #4. Most #4 you will find is already in powder form, so no need to crush. If you happen to get it in rock form, then yes, just crush it up to a powder. Easiest way to do that is on top of a hard surface and under paper money. You can smash with a lighter or a little cologne bottle or anything hard. Scrape anything that sticks to the bottom of the bill off with a credit card or ID. Chop up the flattened rock with the card until it becomes a fluffy fine powder, arrange into some thin, short little lines, and have a blast.
#3 is just a base heroin, and I believe that is really only good for smoking as is in that form. Smoking H is kind of tricky to do, so you will want #4. #4 heroin is more difficult to make, and it is stronger too.
If you are going to snort, stay away from black tar heroin, because that will make a mess in your nose.
You won't need very much either. Less than .1g a dose to start. Heroin is a very powerful drug, and people overdose all the time. It has killed many great men and women. The purity from batch to batch can vary, so even buying from the same person you will have to be careful each time you score. Start VERY SMALL. You can always take more if you don't feel anything. You can't take less, obviously.
The best way for you to learn whats up is to read around the forums to see what people say. Also erowid is a good place for information on all drugs, but I agree that heroin is a huge subject and erowid really isn't set up the best for learning about this particular drug.
Try this website out, it is pretty good: http://www.heroinhelper.com/
If you have any other questions, don't feel afraid or stupid to ask. There are a lot of people here who would be happy to assist you, ignore the assholes.
Always remember, heroin is playing with fire. You need to use responsibly, it is very easy to get carried away and sucked in. Once you start having withdrawals, you are addicted, and you will find yourself in a terrible cycle where your life becomes all about finding more opiates to make your sickness go away, it is not a good life. So if you still want to use, use responsibly. I can't stress this enough.
That website I gave you, heroinhelper.com, suggests a nice way to keep from getting addicted to heroin as you use.
That page is located here: http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/misc/chipper_tips.shtml
I suggest you follow that advice, it will help you remain a responsible heroin user and keep the drug fun, and it may just save your life. Trust me, I already died once thanks to one single heroin dose. I had to be brought back to life in the back of an ambulance. You do not want to have to go thru that. Be responsible.
Again, if you have any other questions, just ask. I would be happy to answer your questions as best I can, and there are a lot of people here with a lot of useful information.
B
P.S. Snorting it is the best way to go. You can make your bags last longer and you don't need to take as much all at once. It is also A LOT safer. The only benefit to shooting is a 30 second rush that honestly isn't even worth it. That is what went thru my mind after I first shot heroin, "that's it?". You can feel just as good blowing it, it is safer, easier to take smaller doses, and harder to OD. So the smartest thing to do is not ever IV. Tho I didn't even feel the injection was worth it after I first did it, I hardly ever snorted my heroin after that, I almost always shoot now. I just like the ritual, the prep, and I like that rush that is not even worth it, haha. So yeah, just be safe and smart and try to stick with snorting it. Good luck my brother.
Props for the post mayne.