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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: wilnin on January 14, 2012, 09:40 pm

Title: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: wilnin on January 14, 2012, 09:40 pm
Ok, first of all, although this may only be my third post (I think), I have been lurking for quite a "long time" around here and I must say a huge thanks and all my admiration to SR and everybody who is making this site a reality!

Now to my subject. The thing is, a friend of mine has a gf who is very "prude" (not sure what else to call it) as far as any kind of illegal drugs are concerned. She obviously never tried anything or even saw any up close. All her informations and ideas about it are straight up from the medias, so I guess no need to explain more  :(

Because of it my friend promised her never to use again (yeah I know, but he is in love :-P). Which is fine as it is his decision, but I can see he is starting to regret it  ;)

Now, without getting into THEIR business, I figured I could at least help him by "documenting" his arguments in favor...
If he can show her that what the medias are telling her is not necessarily the truth and that drugs in general (and MDMA / LSD in particular) are not necessarily evil/bad for your health... then he might have a chance to open her eyes, or at least start an adult conversation about it.
I just want to add that he is a very light user; may be once a month at the most!

And I figured that before launching a full scale Google search about studies/books... I could ask the good and knowledgeable people around here :)

Any pointers, ideas, or even experiences on how you dealt with a similar "problem"?

Any help will be greatly appreciated  ::)
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: v01d on January 14, 2012, 11:12 pm
I have launched this same argument with SEVERAL people. Here are some links for your MDMA argument:

http://thedea.org/neurotoxicity.html
http://thedea.org/statistics.html
(It's not an ACTUAL dea link, it's more of sarcasm :P )

"New study finds no cognitive impairment among ecstasy user"
http://www.addictionjournal.org/viewpressrelease.asp?pr=147

"Ecstasy Shows Promise in Relieving PTSD"
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2004887,00.html

"Could a Form of Ecstasy Fight Cancer"
healthland.time.com/2011/08/23/could-a-form-of-ecstasy-fight-cancer/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_misconceptions_about_illegal_drugs

Good luck!
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: doublemint on January 14, 2012, 11:42 pm
Uh, that's impossible. Introduce her to weed, and if shes interested she'll go on.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: NeveWitch on January 15, 2012, 12:03 am
Haha. I'm 25 now, but if you told me that I would be doing illicit drugs about five years ago, I would've scoffed and laughed at you. Look at me now. :P I'm sort of in a similar boat with you... I won't venture very much beyond MDMA, shrooms, and LSD, but mostly because those seem to be relatively safe, based on what I've read. I try and explain this to my friends with whom I would love to share the experience, but I have a hard time with some of my more close-minded friends. Here's what I've done when I discuss it with them:

First, ask them why they are against it. They'll probably say "because it's illegal". Then I usually ask them why they think that is, and what makes alcohol and tobacco acceptable, while weed and MDMA is not. A lot of times, I'll get my friends to sort of stop and think about it and sort of question it, and generally it'll open up to a nice discussion.

The other response is usually "because it's dangerous". And again, I tell them so is alcohol and tobacco, and that a lot of drugs are unnecessarily demonized, and like anything else, one should do research and educate themselves before passing judgment. Ask them why they think MDMA or LSD is dangerous, and chances are, they'll just respond with a lot of hearsay, urban legends, and a lot of misinformation. I won't go into more details, but you probably already have an idea about why these drugs can be considered safer than others.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: treebeard on January 15, 2012, 12:53 am
yep you basically nailed it NW
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: gg on January 15, 2012, 02:16 am
I'm not sure how to help, other than to just dump a bunch of information.

To start, no drug is technically safe. When used improperly, drugs that are normally harmless can cause harm. (Except weed of course.)

In the "Potential adverse effects" section on the Wikipedia page for LSD, it clearly states that there have been no documented deaths from LSD use. The only known negative effects are that it can cause psychosis or HPPD. That, and being in an impaired state can cause you to make bad choices.

MDMA is trickier to tout as safe. MDMA isn't wholly harmless. In very rare cases it's lethal.

This Wikipedia page sums up the effects of MDMA the best: Effects of MDMA on the human body - http://preview.tinyurl.com/2f354f6

To sum it up:
-Hyponatremia. It's caused by the fact that MDMA causes water retention. Athletes have died from this as well, it's not exactly uncommon.
-Hyperthermia. MDMA causes the body difficulty in regulating temperature, which can lead to overheating if taken in a hot environment.
-Serotonergic changes. Experiments in lab animals have shown that ecstasy use may lead to changes in neurons that make serotonin. Some studies have shown that the changes are permanent, while others demonstrate that they are temporary. There isn't enough data to determine whether the changes are due to down regulation or cell damage. There is more evidence for the latter, as MDMA can supposedly cause oxidative stress in the brain. Also, it's difficult to know how studies done in animals can translate to humans. The doses that caused changes in animal brains may not cause the same changes in humans. It's also difficult to measure cell density by measuring serotonin levels alone.

The worst most common effects of ecstasy can be counteracted by taking it in a safe environment and drinking sports drinks rather than water. To reduce possible changes in the brain, taking an antioxidant and the lowest possible dose will help.

Just give her time and proper research and don't push it.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: doublemint on January 15, 2012, 02:24 am
A good way to start is educating her on that alcohol is the most dangerous drug in the world and that it's legal. Ask her why she thinks that is. She'll respond "It's not bad in moderate use." Then you will reply "Neither is MDMA, LSD, or Weed." She'll say "Then why are they Illegal?" Then tell her about all the urban legends and shit people made up about the 3 above.  Show her graphs to put in perspective tobacco, alcohol, and all the other drugs. Alcohol will rank at the top, and tobacco will be shortly behind, crack somewhere in between, and the trio above towards the very bottom.

Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: gg on January 15, 2012, 02:35 am
Show her graphs to put in perspective tobacco, alcohol, and all the other drugs. Alcohol will rank at the top, and tobacco will be shortly behind, crack somewhere in between, and the trio above towards the very bottom.

Here is a good graph to demonstrate that: http://preview.tinyurl.com/cn95kf

You've probably seen it floating around the internet. It's a scale used to assess the harm of drugs. LSD and MDMA are more harmful than Cannabis, but less addictive. Tobacco and Alcohol are both more harmful and addictive than MDMA and LSD.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: doublemint on January 15, 2012, 02:54 am
Show her graphs to put in perspective tobacco, alcohol, and all the other drugs. Alcohol will rank at the top, and tobacco will be shortly behind, crack somewhere in between, and the trio above towards the very bottom.

Here is a good graph to demonstrate that: http://preview.tinyurl.com/cn95kf

You've probably seen it floating around the internet. It's a scale used to assess the harm of drugs. LSD and MDMA are more harmful than Cannabis, but less addictive. Tobacco and Alcohol are both more harmful and addictive than MDMA and LSD.
Yeah, there are some really great ones on Wikipedia, I don't really like posting links on here as people usually wont click them (Plus I'm lazy)...
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: NeveWitch on January 15, 2012, 04:33 am
Yeah, MDMA certainly isn't harmless, but in general, the danger for MDMA, shrooms, LSD, and weed are blown out of proportion. Unfortunately, much of what the general public knows about these drugs are based mostly off of misconceptions and misinformation.

The chart  mentioned earlier off of Wiki (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Drug_danger_and_dependence.png) is a good place to start if your friend needs more concrete evidence.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: NeveWitch on January 16, 2012, 07:10 pm
those drugs will permanently warp your mind, they are one of my favorite past times, but the truth is the truth.

Haha, that statement would scare away a lot of people, but I can see what you're saying. MDMA and shrooms have opened up my mind and have let me see some things in a different light. Maybe you should say those drugs will "permanently EXPAND your mind" since that sounds a little cooler and less bad.

But yeah, Bigglesworth is kind of right about peer pressure, though I hate to call it that. I don't really want to pressure anyone into trying the drugs that I've enjoyed, but I find it's helpful if you have friends that all enjoy it too, so they'll feel at least a little safer about it. If anything, you'll probably have an easier time with MDMA, since MDMA is pretty much a guaranteed winner because it's pretty hard for you or any of your friends to have a bad time on mollies. So show her the data, and let her see her peers enjoying it so that hopefully she'll have an easier time warming up to it.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: gharyeee on January 16, 2012, 07:51 pm
It's pretty much all been said, but I will have to strongly agree that being patient and not "pushing" it on her will be the best way to keep her mind open. Address her concerns without making her feel attacked or pressured and the facts will do the rest. Many things are dangerous and it all comes down to being responsible and moderating use. But yes, if she is unaware of the dangers of alcohol as compared to MDMA and other substances then I think that would be your go-to information to hand off to your friend.

Great find with that chart on wikipedia! To this day I'm still surprised by how many people separate alcohol from their list of "drugs" because it is legal and therefore safer, then as the night goes on they end up "overdosing."

In regards to how "those drugs will permanently warp your mind," I believe that warp was a terrible word choice. My view on psychedelics is that they are natural teachers. They will remove (for the duration of the trip) the barriers or filters in your brain and allow you disregard your standard "world views." Therefore understanding things in a fuller sense or being able to see things in an entirely new light. When I trip I tend to realize how naive I am about certain aspects of life and take that with me so I can learn from it. One of my first trips hit me incredibly deep with the realization of just how similar we ALL are. We are all brothers and sisters in this world and should be treated as such. Psychedelics have taught me to enjoy the moment and not get caught up in the daily grind that we all endure. I also find that they reinforce the power of love and understanding. Ah, and my personality, life history, friendships, moral compass, and career are all still intact.
So yes my mind may be warped now, but I believe it is all for the better.

Got a little off-topic...

Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: gg on January 16, 2012, 08:26 pm
Show her graphs to put in perspective tobacco, alcohol, and all the other drugs. Alcohol will rank at the top, and tobacco will be shortly behind, crack somewhere in between, and the trio above towards the very bottom.

Here is a good graph to demonstrate that: http://preview.tinyurl.com/cn95kf

You've probably seen it floating around the internet. It's a scale used to assess the harm of drugs. LSD and MDMA are more harmful than Cannabis, but less addictive. Tobacco and Alcohol are both more harmful and addictive than MDMA and LSD.
Yeah, there are some really great ones on Wikipedia, I don't really like posting links on here as people usually wont click them (Plus I'm lazy)...

It's cool, I just really geek out over this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: wilnin on January 16, 2012, 09:10 pm
WOW! I didn't expect so many answers. THANKS  A LOT to everyone for the help. The advices and the documentations are greatly appreciated! Now I'll just pass it on to my friend and hopefully it will help him out.

Just to clarify something though, my friend doesn't want his GF to try anything (although I guess that would ultimately be "nice"  8)) but just to make her understand that, as stated above by many of you, it is not any more, nor any less, dangerous than for instance alcohol. Therefore as a "reasonable man" he can use without abusing it.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone and long live SR  ;D
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: Bud on January 16, 2012, 10:15 pm
just tell that bitch to SMOKE THAT BLUNT uP nigga, yea 8) Know watta mane?
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: rocketdog on January 16, 2012, 10:43 pm
Just don't be too pushy or she'll look at you like an addict.
Your advice is great as is the rest of your story.

If she's the academic type you might direct her toward some peer reviewed scholarly journals like http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/ujpd

Some of my favorite stories come from people like Stanislav Grof, Christina Grof, and John Lily. Here's a good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: caffeine_me on January 17, 2012, 11:16 pm
I have found it is never a good idea to talk someone into trying something for the first time.  I think the journey we take to get to the "enlightened" state of MDMA (And possible LSD as well) includes that inception of thought in our brain/heart that motivates us to push through the mental/physical barriers that kept us from "trying."

I follow the path my mentor took with me.  Live your life in a way that clearly exposes the falsehoods of the myths/propaganda, and when you see that look in their (Someone close to me) eye they are ready, I share a little more about my myself.  'People don't see something unless they are looking for it'
This route seems to provide more a sense of personal growth/confidence/respect for the virgin MDMA user, which will help them in their journey with more complex substances like LSD.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: theradblur on January 18, 2012, 05:27 am
Drugs are bad mmmmmkay?
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: edballs on January 18, 2012, 06:15 am
If she goes out clubbing or partying with a group of friends who she likes and has respect for....*including* other girls who she gets along with really well......and everybody else is taking drugs, having a great time and acting like total freaks....she will see for herself that its no big deal. And she might see that everyone else is having a much better time than her as well.

If your group of friends are totally hardcore, or act like jerks while off it, or the girls in the group are bitchy with her, or any one of a million other things that might put her off, then it can go totally the other way.

Bottom line is that you can't *convince* her. And you shouldn't try. That would be a little shady and manipulative. She has the right to make her own mind up.

All you can do is present the evidence that supports your case. If that evidence comes in the form of you showing her web links, documentaries etc then it WILL look a little like you're trying to push it.

If the evidence is all around her, and nobody is pushing it on her, then she *may* see it for herself, and seeing it for yourself is really the only way anyone learns anything.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: Aoth14 on January 18, 2012, 06:40 am
If she doesn't want to hear it, she WONT hear it. People usually get defensive about the issue, that's how you know their feelings are based on lies they are comfortable believing, and they subconsciously know it I'd bet.

Start slow. Its going to be tough, it always is. I've been told some crazy stuff before. Then you use the scientific name for the drug instead of the media nickname, and they don't even know what you are talking about. Despite having a page of false knowledge memorized in there non-functioning brains.

Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: novocaine on January 18, 2012, 09:36 pm
As Aoth14 said if she doesnt want to hear it she WONT hear it.

You can explain everything posted here until the cows come home and it can still be a waste of time.

My GF will not take drugs. It has nothing to do with the the propaganda out there and more to do with experiencing drug abusing ex BF's and family.

If your friend really wants to win over his GF then I suggest prove to her with his actions, by taking drugs responsibly and safely.
Dont rub her face in, for instance when she opens the freezer for some icecubes a baggy doesnt fall out in her lap or constantly talk about drug use or experiences you have had.

Dont take a dose if you are with her but let her experience your come down. I never dosed around my GF up until recently but she got to see the aftermath of a big night. Smiling faces and being positive ime changed her view on drug use.

Dont force her info down her throat. That never works. Do it ever so subtlety. Leave a link open on your computer screen or print a page off and leave it laying around etc.

My gf  now says she will try MDMA, shrooms etc ONE day. Thats good enough for me. No rush ;)
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: foxymeow on January 24, 2012, 04:33 am
Sloooooooooow

thats all I'm going to say.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: momiji on January 24, 2012, 11:50 am
The thing about opinions, like all politics, is facts do not matter to the majority of people. If you push them you only encourage them to have views against your own. If you point out that their views are factually wrong it only encourages them to disagree with you more.

Breaking through that depends on why the person is against the subject to begin with. Usually when it comes to drugs the best solution is for them to see you under the influence so they have first hand experience. Seeing first hand is a way to break the fallacy barrier without being forceful. However, if the person is so anti the subject they refuse to even view it irl, then it is of the level of forced ignorance and nothing can be done.

Your friends best bet is probably to go trip with his friends away from his girl friend. If she has a problem with him having a night out with his friends then she isn't worth the trouble to begin with. No one should be held against their will lock and key. We live in a free country, do we not?
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: foxymeow on January 25, 2012, 02:28 am
I have gotten many girls to start to like drugs and rolling by giving them Foxy. Foxy is a psychedelic that is really only pleasurable for girls (not really for guys), has mild euphoria, less of a comedown than 2cs, and has a pretty smooth comedown.

But the girl needs to be at least used to smoking weed and softer drugs. Its a good introduction to psychedelics though.
Title: Re: What would be the best way to convince a GF that MDMA & LSD are "safe drugs"?
Post by: brockeh on January 25, 2012, 09:50 am
A lot of peoples initial unthoughtout reasons for being against drugs basically boil down to them being illegal.

something being legal or illegal isnt the same as being right or wrong, almost everywhere in the past slavery was legal, do you feel that made it right?

Also most people who dont use 'drugs' still drink alcohol, press home that there is no fucking difference