Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: joywind on May 29, 2013, 09:28 pm
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Aside from THC and other cannibinoids, which may have anti-cancer properties, the whole marijuana plant material has thousands of unknown and carcinogenic components that have not been accepted by scientific and medical authorities as medicines. Medicines are rarely, if ever, smoked, and an exhaustive review in 1999 by the U.S. Institute of Medicine concluded that smoked marijuana should “generally not be recommended for medical use.” Additionally, smoked marijuana’s effective dose varies, due to individual differences in absorption and metabolism in the liver, as well as puff frequency, depth of inhalation and retention of inhaled smoke.
That smoked marijuana is not medicine doesn’t mean we should not pursue cannabis-based medicines in the form of pills, mouth-sprays, injections, patches and other acceptable routes of administration.
In some countries, marijuana-based medicines — meaning medications that aren’t smoked — have been approved to treat neuropathic pain related to cancer and spasticity related to Multiple Sclerosis (MS). These products include nabiximols (Sativex®), which contains THC and another cannabinoid called cannabidiol (CBD). This mouth spray allows for proper titration of dosage and eliminates the major health consequences of inhaling smoke. The presence of CBD also tends to lessen the intoxicating effects of THC.
It is clear that for some people, marijuana helps with chemotherapy-induced nausea, appetite enhancement and pain relief. But since smoking or ingesting the whole plant is undesirable, other methods should be developed for receiving the benefits of the drug. A possible solution would be to speed up research into marijuana’s components.
From 2007 to 2011, the National Institutes of Health provided more than $14 million for cannabinoid research (both clinical and preclinical) into the following diseases and conditions:
pain, addiction (marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, opiate), cancer (lung, breast, prostate), diabetic neuropathy, Tourette’s syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome, multiple sclerosis,
brain damage, organophosphate toxicity, depression, glaucoma, Alzheimer’s disease, stroke, Autoimmune Hepatitis, ALS, viral infection, liver disease, cardiotoxicity,
HIV/AIDS, emesis, itch, schizophrenia, sleep, Crohn’s Disease, bipolar disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, anorexia nervosa, fibromyalgia, graft vs. host disease, cervical dystonia, and trichotillomania/OCD.
The National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) has funded another 18 studies involving smoked, oral, IV or vaporized marijuana for addiction (marijuana, opiates), schizophrenia, wasting due to HIV/AIDS, neuropathic pain, irritable bowel syndrome, diabetic neuropathy and cancer-related pain.
This demonstrates that if a proposed study has a high-quality trial design and an experienced investigator, the research is very likely to be approved, and perhaps even funded. It is important to understand that the people who decide whether a study is approved for funding are skilled researchers, not government officials.
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This is nothing new. The FDA will never approve a medication that has to be smoked to receive the benefits. There are several other ways to administer a drug that doesn't involve smoking it, especially when effective routes of administration already exist.
Also, the DEA has the FDA by the balls when it comes to clinical trials (let alone getting research grants) for several Schedule I drugs. Even FDA-approved trials have been blocked by the DEA.
sdesu
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Inhalation is, however, just a very effective route to administer drugs.
You could obviously ingest a drug like cannabis, but that would mean it will pass liver metabolism at least once before reaching the brain.
Inhalation doesn't mean smoking per se though. Solutions like vaporizers can work - both for delivering thc, nicotine amd even substances like fentanyl.
I'm not sure about the FDA and DEA struggles over this issue as i'm not a us citizen, but it seems a rather pointless fight. Other schedule-1 drugs like morphine are already widely used in medicine, so i see no rationale in excluding cannabis from this regime. Perhaps it will lead to people using cannabis without good medical reason, but that seems to be happening all over the world right now. On the other side we have people getting hooked on prescription opiates/opioids all off the time, and perhaps some of those would be better off getting treated with cannabis.
Lets forget about the legal issues for a bit and let doctors prescribe what they think is best for their patiets.
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I've been thinking of getting a Marijuana medical card for awhile, I would qualify easy since I fall under once of there qualifying diseases, except for my disease affects the lungs and I can't smoke, and I've been researching the administration of it in various ways for pain relief. I've also been told that it's a much more holistic approach than taking synthetic opiates. I'm new to medical marijuana and would like to know what are the other effective ways of taking it and getting the most from it without smoking.
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Thousands of unknown components that have amounted to a grand total of 0 recorded deaths as a direct result from using cannabis, and an incredibly large amount of improved lives.
You don't have the authority (and the government shouldn't) to decide how someone wishes to ingest something, if you don't want to smoke it then that's excellent, but nobody cares.
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Vaporize it and stop being a Dinosaur.
What do you think people do to get their nicotine fix if they don't want to "smoke" it. ;)
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Vaporize it and stop being a Dinosaur.
What do you think people do to get their nicotine fix if they don't want to "smoke" it. ;)
Use nicotine patches? :P
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Thousands of unknown components that have amounted to a grand total of 0 recorded deaths as a direct result from using cannabis, and an incredibly large amount of improved lives.
um... i don't think you understand the concept of carcinogenicity. get back to us when you understand this concept.
You don't have the authority (and the government shouldn't) to decide how someone wishes to ingest something, ...
lol, you're a retard. I am not advocating that people should be forced to ingest it a certain way. I am saying that, if you don't want to get cancer, then you should probably eat cannabis rather than smoke it. Retard.
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Thousands of unknown components that have amounted to a grand total of 0 recorded deaths as a direct result from using cannabis, and an incredibly large amount of improved lives.
um... i don't think you understand the concept of carcinogenicity. get back to us when you understand this concept.
You don't have the authority (and the government shouldn't) to decide how someone wishes to ingest something, ...
lol, you're a retard. I am not advocating that people should be forced to ingest it a certain way. I am saying that, if you don't want to get cancer, then you should probably eat cannabis rather than smoke it. Retard.
So you need to resort to attempting to insult people to try to look like you're correct, funny because you don't seem to be liked on these forums. Even if you had figures about cannabis smoking and cancer rates, correlation does not imply causation.
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Please don't call me a dinosaur. I've been in pain management for 2+ years, and if you don't think I'm aware of the vaporizer method, your wrong. I wanted other peoples opinion on how effective it was for pain. I thought this maybe a good place to ask. No need to be smart ass and act like you know it all and I know nothing.
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Smoking plants is silly when concentrates are cheaper and more effective but if I were in actual pain ie broken bones thc/cbd is not something I would use for pain management. There are much more effective opiates for real pain, I say real pain and I only mean physical pain caused by injury. When I broke several limbs I found pot alone to be ineffective, however when combined with certain strong opiates (something codine, not oxy can't remember which), getting high made for an extremely fun time.
Anyway it shouldn't be smoked, marijuana should only be available in concentrates but at the moment it is much easier for many to just cure and (sometimes not cure) sell the plant. Unfortunately vaping concentrates can have slight learning curve where and just putting shit in bowl is idiot proof. In a few years when the younger generations get older I imagine thc concentrates will be more readily available, maybe as common as alcohol (fingers crossed).
Damn I wish more people got high. I drive around, I walk around stores, I see people, so many people that just look miserable and do dangerous and stupid things to get that misery some company and I think, if only they got high they wouldn't need to act like that, they might even enjoy life more.
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Thanks for the informative response. I am prescribed opiates for pain, unfortunately my dosing was cut by 33% and with no other reason than "we think it's too high" mind you, I've been on the same dose for over a year. I am with a very large and ineffective HMO that doesn't really handle pain management but has your regular PCP "take care of it for you, since they have field experience" I have a rare auto-immune disorder, I'm note sure if your in the medical profession but your name kinds suggests that (of course I know most are made up). If you take a close look at my username you'll figure out the disease (Ssc). My issues are with swollen joints, muscle weakness, and extreme stiffness. Any thoughts on managing that type of pain would be greatly greatly be appreciated.
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http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/e0f771df1a
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http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/e0f771df1a
Thanks
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I've been thinking of getting a Marijuana medical card for awhile, I would qualify easy since I fall under once of there qualifying diseases, except for my disease affects the lungs and I can't smoke, and I've been researching the administration of it in various ways for pain relief.
Does not being able to smoke also mean not being have to use a vaporizer?
The smoke from burning vegetable matter - tobacco or cannabis - is much harder on the lungs compared to what comes out of a vaporizer or electric cigarette.
That said you can ingest cannabis perfectly well, but the downside is it can take a fairly long time between swallowing it and reaching full effect. Depending on circumstances this can take anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours. If you are using it chronically this may not be much of a problem, but if you seek fast relief it is something to consider.
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Using a vaporizer has been suggested, but I'm not sure if this can still affect the lungs? I'm assuming no? I haven't tried it yet.
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I guess you'll have to test it for yourself really.
As a cigarette smoker i have little trouble inhaling cannabis from joints (though it usually feels 'worse' compared to ordinary cigs).
I have tried electric cigarettes though, and i can attest that they deliver the nicotine without any of the burning sensation involved with real cigs. I'm not sure how this compares to experiences with vaporized cannabis, but i suppose just giving it a try will not hurt either.
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Marijuana should not be marketed as medicine. Everyone should be able to grow their own and decide themselves how they would like to ingest it. Whether it be you make concentrates, edibles, vaporization, or smoke everyone should be allowed to create their own concoction that suits their needs. It is a plant for gods sake.
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Using a vaporizer has been suggested, but I'm not sure if this can still affect the lungs? I'm assuming no? I haven't tried it yet.
If vaped correctly you get cannabionds and almost nothing else. Its not only healthy but you actually get more out of the same amount of cannabis. Vaping, tinctures, edibles and creams are all safe and effective and even smoking it really is alot safer than most things. I dont have any evidence to back this up but if your inhaling carcinogens and compounds with cancer preventing and reversing property's its seems unlikely the carcinogens would result in cancer. You should be more concerned with alcohol and GMO consumption than smoking cannabis.
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Thanks for posting everyone. The question is does it make difference in how it's ingested for pain relief. Maybe I should ask this question instead does it make difference in how it's ingested for getting high or the Euphoric feeling. Often times, the amount of high and euphoria does equal amount of pain relief, usually it's the euphoric feeling that masks and suppresses the central nervous system
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For your THC vaping pleasure, I have some listings you should check out. Vaping produces no carcinogens. Nothing burns therefore there are no harmful byproducts. This is one of the main benefits of the electronic cigarette for tobacco smokers. It cannot be said to be 100% safe (but what can be?), but vaping THC poses very little if any health risk while providing some very beneficial chemicals. The symptom relief one gets from cannabis should not be affected by the route of ingestion, just the onset and duration of the relief.
If you're just getting started or want to take it up a notch, I have some raffles that I just listed for complete kits
- Beginner kit: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/ef157d994a
- Advanced kit: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/2c74721bd8
If you've already gotten started vaping and just need the THC to vape, I have some listings for you as well
- Prefilled cartomizer: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/1776d7edf0
- Dropper bottle of e juice: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/ea08ff6621
Vaping THC is certainly becoming a more common method of ingestion. It is very customizable and virtually undetectable unless you are in a confined space vaping for an extended period of time using a non-flavored product!
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really nice to see a thread like this addressing health issues, where so many threads are deliberately against health information. Recently read an article on the medicinal benefits of raw marijuana, where any form of heating destroys many of the contents. Don't know if any raw food heads are reading but you would know a lot about it.
Respect
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but mj smoke tastes better then the vapor
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recent studies suggest otherwise. "marijuana causes lung cancer" is blatant misinformation. don't believe the hype!
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51148243/ns/business-press_releases/t/federal-government-reports-marijuana-effective-combatting-certain-cancers-reports-adsi/
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You guys should all go on NORML.org(CLEARNET) and follow up on recent studies that pop up often. Very cool stuff and great organization.
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recent studies suggest otherwise. "marijuana causes lung cancer" is blatant misinformation. don't believe the hype!
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51148243/ns/business-press_releases/t/federal-government-reports-marijuana-effective-combatting-certain-cancers-reports-adsi/
Well, its not impossible for a substance to inhibit one type of cancer while promoting another, so i don't think the study can be interpreted as a conclusion that smoking cannabis does not cause lung cancer.
On the other hand, smoke from all kinds of sources increases the risk of lung cancer and a host of other respiratory disesase. This is not limited to tobacco or cannabis, but also includes smoke from campfires, bbq's, vehicle exhaust and what not. For someone that does a bbq or campfire once in a while this rarely is a problem, but it is for people in the third world that rely on indoor, wood-burning stoves to cook their food on a daily basis.
Vaporizers generally do not have such problems since they heat up the substance you want to inhale to its boiling point, but that is a temperature much lower than the ignition temperature for something like cannabis. THC boils off in the 150 to 160 C range, far short of what is required to ignite any vegetable matter.
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recent studies suggest otherwise. "marijuana causes lung cancer" is blatant misinformation. don't believe the hype!
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51148243/ns/business-press_releases/t/federal-government-reports-marijuana-effective-combatting-certain-cancers-reports-adsi/
Well, its not impossible for a substance to inhibit one type of cancer while promoting another, so i don't think the study can be interpreted as a conclusion that smoking cannabis does not cause lung cancer.
On the other hand, smoke from all kinds of sources increases the risk of lung cancer and a host of other respiratory disesase. This is not limited to tobacco or cannabis, but also includes smoke from campfires, bbq's, vehicle exhaust and what not. For someone that does a bbq or campfire once in a while this rarely is a problem, but it is for people in the third world that rely on indoor, wood-burning stoves to cook their food on a daily basis.
Vaporizers generally do not have such problems since they heat up the substance you want to inhale to its boiling point, but that is a temperature much lower than the ignition temperature for something like cannabis. THC boils off in the 150 to 160 C range, far short of what is required to ignite any vegetable matter.
i agree, but there are numerous studies that say marijuana decreases the risk of lung cancer. feel free to research it for yourself, i was just providing one example. i'm not saying i would treat cancer by smoking cannabis. that would be pretty ineffective because the anticancer properties are quite mild. you need strong concentrates to really see results in that respect. plain ole pot just won't cut it for cancer. :P
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smoke weed every day
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Using a vaporizer has been suggested, but I'm not sure if this can still affect the lungs? I'm assuming no? I haven't tried it yet.
Vaporizing still affects the lungs. Trust me I know this first hand. Sure, vaporizing is BETTER for your lungs than combustion, but it is no panacea.
I have been a pot head on and off my entire life. The last several years of my life I've had a great job and live in an area where I can call and order amazing weed to my house legally.
After many years of having terrible lung and stomach problems from smoking, I took a long 10 month break and then eased my way back in with a new Volcano Digit that I bought to ensure I only vaporized. Overall it was a LOT better on my lungs. And my stomach showed none of the issues it did from smoking.
But over time it still caused issues. To see what happens - just use a volcano for a long time and then pick up one of the bags and look at it closely in the light. You will see this thin yellowish sticky film all over the inside. This is the same shit that gets into your lungs from vaping. After a long time of vaping I started to notice that my lung capacity was dramatically reduced. And then eventually I started wheezing and my lungs felt almost worse than they had if I had been smoking the whole time. At least with smokng I felt I had nasty black tar in my lungs that I could try to cough up. With vaping it was just shitty lungs and I had to wait it out. I was miserable.
I have also tried the new e-pens with the various honey/ash oils they sell by me and end up coughing just the same. These also give me headaches for some reason.
The new PAX style vapos they have been releasing are probably the best option I have seen but they don't change anything about that little thin film of stickiness coating ones lungs.
Last year I grew a couple of plants in my backyard, then when they were through I cooked them all down into cannabutter and started making cookies and shit. This was AWESOME at first. In fact, it was just plain amazing. I rolled through like three months blasted out of my mind on my treats and no lung issues. But then I started noticing an odd tightening in my chest sometimes which kind of spooked me like my heart was hurting. I figured this was just some fake sensation and didn't really pay much mind. I thought I had finally found the perfect solution to my wanting to be constantly stoned problem.
Until I went into the doctor for my annual physical and had bloodwork done. My cholesterol came back with an LDL level of 292 (TOTAL 351). My previous test the year before had a TOTAL level of 165 (99 LDL). And during the prior year, besides eating the cannabis treats, I ate great. Mostly vegetarian/vegan all organic no processed foods and I stopped drinking pop. So by eating so much cannabutter I basically turned my blood into a slimy sludge filled with fat. I don't know if this is why i had felt chest pains but since ceasing my activities and eating healthy once again I don't feel them anymore. My cholesterol is also back to the same it was as before I started.
The lesson I have learned from all of this is that it is simply not possible to continue remaining on a cannabis high for the remainder of my life. I now smoke every couple months on certain special occasions or for social events or when I am on any other sort of mind altering substance that has synergies with MJ (all of them?). I guess I am just getting old and this is what happens.
Bottom line, IMO, I don't think there is any perfect method for conuming cannabis on a continuous basis. If only doing it occasionally, I doubt it matters whether you smoke, vape, or ingest. The body is a pretty resilient thing.
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Like many, I've been a smoker for many years. So I've just put a quck poll together to see where the SR community is at with weed and how its consumed. Tobacco is becoming less popular every year in the west just as the popularity of vaporizers seems to be increasing. In the interest of research and good health. check out the poll..take you 15 seconds.
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=196472.0;topicseen
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For your THC vaping pleasure, I have some listings you should check out. Vaping produces no carcinogens. Nothing burns therefore there are no harmful byproducts. This is one of the main benefits of the electronic cigarette for tobacco smokers. It cannot be said to be 100% safe (but what can be?), but vaping THC poses very little if any health risk while providing some very beneficial chemicals. The symptom relief one gets from cannabis should not be affected by the route of ingestion, just the onset and duration of the relief.
If you're just getting started or want to take it up a notch, I have some raffles that I just listed for complete kits
- Beginner kit: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/ef157d994a
- Advanced kit: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/2c74721bd8
If you've already gotten started vaping and just need the THC to vape, I have some listings for you as well
- Prefilled cartomizer: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/1776d7edf0
- Dropper bottle of e juice: http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/item/ea08ff6621
Vaping THC is certainly becoming a more common method of ingestion. It is very customizable and virtually undetectable unless you are in a confined space vaping for an extended period of time using a non-flavored product!
Awesome thanks for this info mdpro! I've been using ecigs for some time now and am so happy that I gave up analogs and was wondering if the same was possible with Cannibis. I know I will miss the flavor and smell of normal burning if I switch to this for good, but I'm sure it's worth it as it's nice to be able to ride a bike more than two blocks and be out of breath. I'm sure that ecigs aren't perfect, after all putting anything into your lungs besides air really isn't great for you, but I know from how well I breath now it's a great alternative and you can get your nicotine fix anywhere. And really with your product no one would know it's Cannibis either since I imagine it has no odor like ecigs.
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I vape, smoke, and make/use tincture. Vaporizing tastes so good! I think it tastes much better than smoking. It is very 'flowery' and full bodied, without any residue from a pipe (even one that's cleaned well before using). Tincture is lovely, though it takes a while to 'work.' The tincture is great for big events where smoking or vaping would not be possible. It's also nice that it leaves no scent on one's clothing or in the house, etc. That's just my experience. I think that a person has to try a few different methods to know which works best for them....or which works best under what circumstances.
Regarding pain, I have found that sativas do shit for pain; in fact, they sometimes increase it. Indicas are great for it, but they make me stupid and sleepy. Since I have chronic pain, I mix both types (or use a hybrid), so as to be alert AND pain-free (or, at least, experiencing less pain than before ingesting/smoking)
Take care!