Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: tonyd3333 on September 19, 2013, 10:49 pm
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I just signed up to SR about two months ago. So far, my opinion of the site and how it's administered is top notch... I think the services provided are an unbelievable resource and a huge benefit to society. For myself, having drugs available this way has actually helped curb my drug abuse immensely... I have always been good at knowing when to say when about 95% of the time, and the 5% of the time I fuck everything up is when it's Tuesday morning at 3am and I'm coming off a harsh weekend, and I decide to make a random call to meet some friend of a friend of a friend in a parking lot on the other side of town..... THOSE nights are when I really screw up my life, and with this site it's almost necessary to do drugs responsibly, unless I plan on being a junkie ahead of time... And honestly, who really does that?
That much being said, and my appreciation notwithstanding, I feel the vendors tend to be a bit on the prima donna side of things... The idea that FE should be even requested let alone demanded is ridiculous. The whole point of the site as a buyer is the assurances that everything will come through, or there's a route that can be taken to resolve it. Same goes for the folks who ship with the "No Refund/No Reship" in their blocks. Personally, even if their product is great, I won't be ordering from these people because I find them to be the worst of the worst in prima donna fashion.
And for chrissake, READ/REPLY to your emails. I've read all your rants about how you aren't on SR to have discussions with buyers regarding anything except the fact that an order didn't arrive. I've read how busy you all are, and how tirelessly you work to meet the needs of the masses. Boo hoo, waaaaaahhhh... The SR prices are premium prices for drugs that can be obtained by street vendors for less. The premium price goes to a higher level of service and quality, and above all, consistency and safety (one and the same, most of the time).
As for the vendors that do take the time to reply, and do take the time to make sure orders are sent out quickly and accurately and as described. THANK YOU, and you will continue to get my business.
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Yeah how dare a vendor not sit at their computer 24/7 waiting to answer your questions thats just madness......
There are a lot of scamming buyers so if you want the good product off the good vendor shut up and obey their rules if not shop else where I promise you they wont miss your business. As SR allow vendors to require FE after they have established themselves why shouldnt they use the tool, how many dealers do you know that will give you the product let you go home and try it then come back to pay? none hmm thats a surprise
Some vendors do get inundated with dumb noob questions all day so not replying instantly is understandable one vendor I use had to walk a noob through the ordering process because they couldnt even enter their address and then went on to leave a 4/5 for the vendor. So in summation order off who you want but dont bad mouth vendors for using the tools provided to them by SR
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As SR allow vendors to require FE after they have established themselves why shouldnt they use the tool, how many dealers do you know that will give you the product let you go home and try it then come back to pay? none hmm thats a surprise
Because I'm not walking away with my product? FE'ing is like handing someone money and saying, Ill come back later and pick up my product, maybe.
Now if you have an on going relationship with a vendor and have had multiple successful orders with no issue, then yeah I see no problem in it at that point. But I would never hand a stranger my money and then cross my fingers that they mail my package. That's just asking for trouble.
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I've FE'd twice. One order was going to autofinalize and I didn't want the hit on my stats. Bitcoin amount was negligble, so I didn't care that much. The second time was with DonaldDraper. He had the product I wanted and had great feedback so I took a chance. Sweated a week or so, though. And even though he came through perfectly, I haven't reordered from him. Just too risky.
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You need to understand they are sending the product then hoping you will release the funds, its a two way street. Do you have any idea how many buyers try not to release funds when something goes missing like customs seixe it or it just plain gets lost.
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Yeah, that's a really good point. I've never had to do a dispute, that's not the right word, do they offer any protection for the seller? Otherwise, it really does seem like the seller has the burden of risk.
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Yeah how dare a vendor not sit at their computer 24/7 waiting to answer your questions thats just madness......
There are a lot of scamming buyers so if you want the good product off the good vendor shut up and obey their rules if not shop else where I promise you they wont miss your business. As SR allow vendors to require FE after they have established themselves why shouldnt they use the tool, how many dealers do you know that will give you the product let you go home and try it then come back to pay? none hmm thats a surprise
Some vendors do get inundated with dumb noob questions all day so not replying instantly is understandable one vendor I use had to walk a noob through the ordering process because they couldnt even enter their address and then went on to leave a 4/5 for the vendor. So in summation order off who you want but dont bad mouth vendors for using the tools provided to them by SR
I don't need my hand held and I don't need constant communication. But the attitude of "Don't talk to me for any reason unless you didn't receive your order" will lose my business. That's all I'm saying. There's is a two way street here, we're all busy and benefiting each other, and if a vendor has no time to answer a simple question from me, I don't want to deal with that vendor. And I won't, as you put it. And I've had two vendors in the last two weeks that I've had purchases from that haven't even opened my emails. I FE'd for both, as I had to, and gave them 5/5 as I had to in order to keep from getting blacklisted from them... And now they don't open my emails. Two weeks, and no delivery, and no emails. So either I got ripped off, or there's a security problem I need to concern myself with. Either way, please excuse me if I seem a bit irritable that they won't even read my emails now that my funds are already released to them and I have no recourse. And one of them is a new vendor, so I don't know what you mean that SR allows them to request FE after being established..... Seems to me any vendor has that option at their disposal, no?
I would agree with your analogy regarding the dealers and going home to try it if it weren't for the fact that the funds are held on SR for the vendor. So to use your same analogy, I'm sure any street vendor would be fine with a known and reputable third party holding onto the money until the buyer verified they didn't get kicked in the nuts.
Being a noob, and also seeing it from the buyers perspective only, I can accept the probability that there are problems out there with buyers that cause a lot of the issues I brought up. There's obviously a reason for FE and a reason vendors ask not to be emailed. I read that SR will likely institute a buyer's rating system, which I think will be awesome to help solve that. I guess until then, I just think it's ridiculous to be so finicky in their demands. And you are right, if the tools are there for them to use, who am I to say they shouldn't use them... All I wanted to convey was that I am one buyer that will find a better vendor... As is my right just the same.
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You need to understand they are sending the product then hoping you will release the funds, its a two way street. Do you have any idea how many buyers try not to release funds when something goes missing like customs seixe it or it just plain gets lost.
Shouldn't the loss be split 50/50 in that case?
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You need to understand they are sending the product then hoping you will release the funds, its a two way street. Do you have any idea how many buyers try not to release funds when something goes missing like customs seixe it or it just plain gets lost.
That's messed up if that's the case. And I have to claim ignorance here, I would think that any buyer should be pretty grateful for a service performed and release the funds immediately. If that's happening, than a buyer rating system should definitely be installed ASAP...
Simple question, though... If the package does get lost or is seized in transit, why shouldn't the vendor be responsible at all? Why should that loss be on the buyer? Where's the justice in saying a lost package is the buyer's loss alone? It's just as much the buyer's fault as it is the seller's. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just asking a question.
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You need to understand they are sending the product then hoping you will release the funds, its a two way street. Do you have any idea how many buyers try not to release funds when something goes missing like customs seixe it or it just plain gets lost.
That's messed up if that's the case. And I have to claim ignorance here, I would think that any buyer should be pretty grateful for a service performed and release the funds immediately. If that's happening, than a buyer rating system should definitely be installed ASAP...
Simple question, though... If the package does get lost or is seized in transit, why shouldn't the vendor be responsible at all? Why should that loss be on the buyer? Where's the justice in saying a lost package is the buyer's loss alone? It's just as much the buyer's fault as it is the seller's. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just asking a question.
Exactly. It is only fair that in the event of a customs seizure, the disputed amount is split 50/50 between the buyer and the seller to ensure fairness and minimize risk for both parties.
There's a resolution center on here for when orders do not go as planned, where resolutions are proposed by both sides. If an agreement isn't reached then an admin reviews the case. I haven't had to use it yet at this point but it'd definitely be the place to turn to instead of just refusing to release any funds to the seller.
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There's a resolution center on here for when orders do not go as planned, where resolutions are proposed by both sides. If an agreement isn't reached then an admin reviews the case. I haven't had to use it yet at this point but it'd definitely be the place to turn to instead of just refusing to release any funds to the seller.
If you FE the resolution center isn't an option anymore, which means it essentially puts all the risk on the buyer and none on the seller. There should definitely be a 50/50 stake in the case unless one party faulted the deal somehow, but FE takes that away from the buyer.
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There's a resolution center on here for when orders do not go as planned, where resolutions are proposed by both sides. If an agreement isn't reached then an admin reviews the case. I haven't had to use it yet at this point but it'd definitely be the place to turn to instead of just refusing to release any funds to the seller.
If you FE the resolution center isn't an option anymore, which means it essentially puts all the risk on the buyer and none on the seller. There should definitely be a 50/50 stake in the case unless one party faulted the deal somehow, but FE takes that away from the buyer.
Yeah. I think the person posting earlier was referring to people refusing to finalize and propose a resolution. Which doesn't even sound like a good way to keep your money since it auto-finalizes after a certain period of time anyway.
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There's a resolution center on here for when orders do not go as planned, where resolutions are proposed by both sides. If an agreement isn't reached then an admin reviews the case. I haven't had to use it yet at this point but it'd definitely be the place to turn to instead of just refusing to release any funds to the seller.
If you FE the resolution center isn't an option anymore, which means it essentially puts all the risk on the buyer and none on the seller. There should definitely be a 50/50 stake in the case unless one party faulted the deal somehow, but FE takes that away from the buyer.
Yeah. I think the person posting earlier was referring to people refusing to finalize and propose a resolution. Which doesn't even sound like a good way to keep your money since it auto-finalizes after a certain period of time anyway.
I agree, it makes no sense from the buyer's point of view to hold onto funds. I can see how that would be frustrating from a vendor's standpoint, and hopefully the buyer ratings will take care of that.
I just meant to point out that a reasonable solution is NOT to demand FE, in my opinion, as that completely removes any recourse for the buyer in the event something goes wrong.
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Yeah. I think the person posting earlier was referring to people refusing to finalize and propose a resolution. Which doesn't even sound like a good way to keep your money since it auto-finalizes after a certain period of time anyway.
I think that one can extend the finalization time by clicking the 'resolve' link (which might be misleadingly named as it seems it doesn't send transactions immediately into arbitration).
To FE is a personal decision and responsibility and is a matter of trust, taking things out of SR's hands. I've done it twice, with reputable vendors, in early deals and have been fortunately enough to have that trust repaid. Unless that trust exists, however, or one can accept the possible loss of whatever funds are at stake, it is almost certainly far better to find another vendor who doesn't demand it.
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Hi Tony, I don't think ranting on the forums like you initially did was the best way to approach this (although i mostly agree with your points!, just not the delivery).
As a new buyer myself I have had nothing but EXCELLENT communication from around 8 out of every 10 Vendors I have contacted.
I base part of my buying decision on this, i.e. - if they reply quickly and I like their "vibe" - I will consider them over others in a heartbeat.
True Vendors, know the old adage "The customer is always right" and the good ones will treat you as such.
Perhaps a post in these forums asking for recommendations of Good Vendor (for the products you are after) may have been a way to get the info you are after in a more positive way.
But then, nothing IMO beat speaking to Vendors directly - most are great, the ones who are not........just "hurt them" with your lack of custom and attention! 8)
As I mentioned, I have had great communication from the majority of Vendors I have approached, for example MACHINE ELVES (if you are after DMT) at http://silkroadvb5piz3r.onion/silkroad/user/7076c26b1e ......are simply superb.
I must have exchanged 10-12 messages with them and they even took the time to contact me a week after finalizing to see how I got on!!
There are lots of vendors of this caliber on SR and I am sure that you just need to sound them out.........NOT sound off!!
Have a great weekend, I promise you once you find the Vendors you actually like....everything is a breeze.
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You need to understand they are sending the product then hoping you will release the funds, its a two way street. Do you have any idea how many buyers try not to release funds when something goes missing like customs seixe it or it just plain gets lost.
Isn't this what the escrow system is in place for? Honestly, if I never receive something because the vendor packaged it badly, why would I want to pay him/her? For his efforts? Had you done your job in the first place, it would have ever been a problem. Im paying you to provide me with a service and a product. If you cant provide either of those, why do you deserve payment?
Now I understand shit happens, and it could end up being the PO fault or whatever, and in that case I wouldn't be placing blame on the vendor. But if you think that I'm going to FE, cover the postage, product and just cross my fingers, well you are nuts. Best case scenario we both end up losing some, but not the entire amount for either of us.
I think the whole point of this is "Dont be a dick." Find someone you trust and stick with them. You get better service that way.
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Hi Tony, I don't think ranting on the forums like you initially did was the best way to approach this (although i mostly agree with your points!, just not the delivery).
Couldn't agree more, my delivery was born out of frustration from the two vendors who are apparently going to continue ignoring my emails. I should have been more specific about those two and less general about vendors as a whole. I've also had some great interactions with a much larger group of really good vendors, answering my questions and providing a service as described. From now on I'll use FE only with those that I trust completely. Only lost around 1.5 bitcoins to learn that lesson, it could have been worse I suppose.
Thanks for your feedback! Much appreciated.
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You need to understand they are sending the product then hoping you will release the funds, its a two way street. Do you have any idea how many buyers try not to release funds when something goes missing like customs seixe it or it just plain gets lost.
Isn't this what the escrow system is in place for? Honestly, if I never receive something because the vendor packaged it badly, why would I want to pay him/her? For his efforts? Had you done your job in the first place, it would have ever been a problem. Im paying you to provide me with a service and a product. If you cant provide either of those, why do you deserve payment?
Now I understand shit happens, and it could end up being the PO fault or whatever, and in that case I wouldn't be placing blame on the vendor. But if you think that I'm going to FE, cover the postage, product and just cross my fingers, well you are nuts. Best case scenario we both end up losing some, but not the entire amount for either of us.
I think the whole point of this is "Dont be a dick." Find someone you trust and stick with them. You get better service that way.
Well said. And yes, as you described, that's exactly what I did with two vendors, I FE'd, covered the postage, product and just crossed my fingers, and found myself not receiving anything and the two vendors not even taking the time to read my emails. Lesson learned.
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Lets be honest, it is an unbelievable system that seems to work most of the time in a business that is loaded with cut throats, liars and thieves, I think the knowledge required to get on here and buy/sell weed out the worst of the worst, but those determined to scam will try and do so. The vendors know before they sign on that there is an escrow system and their prices reflect that (fair trade off I guess). But I can tell you, any vendor that demands FE on their page will not get my business ever, doing that hurts the whole system, lets face it we take risks on all sides. If a buyer is late/auto finalizing constantly that will catch up with him and he will be cut off, If a vendor doesn't hold up his end of the bargain that will come out to. Where people run into trouble is when they FE, If a vendor does not want to use the escrow system he can easily go out on the street and sling dope the old fashioned way, exposing himself to more risk, and getting lower prices. They are plenty of good vendors on here to choose from that don't require it, so that should tell you something, and if it seems to good to be true it probably is.
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Never FE. If you have to make smaller purchases for a while to gain the trust of a trusted vendor. Check around the road. A newbie presents a niche market for certain vendors who gear their offerings for newbies. They offer smaller amounts at slightly higher prices but don't require FE. Learn to use PGP and the other safety features. Showing the vendors that you "get it" goes a long way.
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Agreed, I have yet to even have a need to contact the vendor, place my order, send my encrypted address.. done. I mean you should feel pretty lucky that you can even message back and forth this way, you think Bruno down the street will answer your petty little questions. Now when it comes to missing product, or other such things, you should expect a response as they know that is part of the deal here.
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Hey, if you're looking for a vendor that doesn't require FE and ships fast and discreetly, check out the listings in my sig!