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Discussion => Security => Topic started by: tbart on July 17, 2013, 07:04 pm

Title: bit coins going up
Post by: tbart on July 17, 2013, 07:04 pm
got a feeling stories like this one are going to push bitcoins more mainstream and push prices up
should i be hocking the farm and investing everything in BTC and hope the feds don't crack down on it and destroy it's attraction?


http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/craig-bannister/govt-bureau-creating-google-earth-every-financial-transaction-senator

Gov't Bureau 'Creating a Google Earth on Every Financial Transaction,' Senator Warns
July 16, 2013 - 4:18 PM
________________________________________ 
 
The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) is looking to create a "Google Earth" of every financial transaction of every American, Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) warned today in a Senate speech opposing confirmation of Richard Cordray as CFPB director.
"This bill (creating the CFPB) was supposed to be about regulating Wall Street. Instead, it's creating a Google Earth on every financial transaction. That's right: the government will be able to see every detail of your finances. Your permission - not needed," Sen. Enzi said.
"They can look right down to the tiny details of the time and place where you pulled cash out of an ATM," Enzi warned.
And, there's nothing you can do about, since Americans don't have the ability to "opt out" or prohibit the government from collecting their personal financial data, Enzi said:
"You can't tell 'em to stay out of your records. It's not possible. If your data is being collected, you do not have the option to opt out. Nor, does the CFPD need any kind of permission from you to gather your personal information."
Enzi called for greater congressional oversight authority to ensure the CFPB does not abuse its power, but Republican still dropped plans to filibuster the nomination, caving to threats by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to change the filibuster rules.


Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on July 17, 2013, 07:16 pm
Your guess is as good as mine.  If I had to speculate I'd say we're going to see a short term decline in bitcoin before we see a rebound taking us to $120 and $150 and beyond.  This past week bitcoin really has had trouble surpassing the $100 wall. 

Here's a link to a great forum (clear net link below) where all guys do is speculate on where they think bitcoin is headed:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=57.0

There are just as many people who think it'll go down and crash and burn as there are people who think it'll skyrocket into the thousands of dollars.  These are long term speculations.  You can just about bet in the the short term bitcoin will rise and fall.  It's the nature of bitcoin.  It goes up and it goes down.  It's just tough to predict if it's going to go up next or go down next.  It's gambling really.  It's like the stock market.  There are major whales with millions of dollars invested in bitcoin that trade thousands of coins at a time and they can manipulate the market so to speak.  Pump and dump strategy if you will.  They make thousands and the little guy loses their ass.  But yeah check out that site.  A lot of guys use terms that I don't understand yet.  I used one above in my speculation: a wall.  A lot of technical jargon and graphs to analyze. 
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: tbart on July 17, 2013, 07:26 pm
well, i'm just talking about pressure on bitcoins growing from mainstream consumers that don't like having their every movement "mapped". There's another story in the news about license plate scanners recording cars as they pass and taking pictures and storing that info indefinitely - one guy in san diego filed a FOIA request for any license scan info on him, and in 11 months he'd been photographed 37 times, including one time in his driveway with his two daughters getting out of his car (cops have the scanners mounted on their cars now)

Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on July 17, 2013, 08:04 pm
well, i'm just talking about pressure on bitcoins growing from mainstream consumers that don't like having their every movement "mapped". There's another story in the news about license plate scanners recording cars as they pass and taking pictures and storing that info indefinitely - one guy in san diego filed a FOIA request for any license scan info on him, and in 11 months he'd been photographed 37 times, including one time in his driveway with his two daughters getting out of his car (cops have the scanners mounted on their cars now)

Ah I gotcha.  That story is somewhat disturbing but I'm not surprised at all.  In this day and age of technology, as with just about everything in life, there are positives and negatives to be seen if you look hard enough.  For example, a trip to the doctor or dentist is far less painful than it once was thanks to technology.  So that's a positive.  But your example, in my opinion, is mostly negative.  It seems like an invasion of privacy.  Our privacy is quickly disappearing with the advances in technology.  Sure a lot of it can be used for good, but it'll just be a matter of time before everything about us is logged and stored somewhere (Utah most likely because the government has been funding MASSIVE servers with nearly unlimited storage space to started logging and recording everything about everyone so at the click of a button if you show up on their radar they can look to see who you are and what you do.)

Now the the bitcoin bulls will tell you that this is all great for bitcoin.  Since bitcoin is a decentralized currency essentially people will eventually move away from fiat and towards bitcoin therefore increasing the value of bitcoin. 

Unfortunately, I don't see it playing out like this.  Here's how I see it happening.  There have already been talks and the idea thrown around of eventually moved currency 100% into the digital world.  Meaning no more cash.  All transactions will be digital.  And they're not just talking about credit cards that you physically keep in your wallet.  Oh no.  They're talking about implanting chips into people under their skin so that when you go to buy anything be it gas or food at the grocery store you have to swipe your arm so to speak.  If and when this plays out, bitcoin won't stand to exist.  At least not for illegal activities.  I don't see how it would have a chance.  Right now as us SR's know in order to be anonymous we must take our cash and turn it into bitcoin.  And then the vendors take out bitcoins and turn them into cash.  When we go all digital, how is this going to happen without the government and higher powers knowing about it?  All of our transactions will be logged.  Bitcoin would only really be able to be used for legal things and even then I'm sure it'll be taxed. 

So that's how I see it happening.  This doesn't apply as much but first comes a world currency.  We're already in a global economy and there is talks of one world government and one world currency.  Once the world currency comes into play then the aforementioned will likely happen. 

I might be totally off about this, but I believe it's certainly possible and highly likely. 

I'll close with this.  When my grandmother was on her deathbed almost 15 years ago I was really getting into computers.  I love computers and have always loved them since I got my first Tandy.  When I went and told my grandmother about my computer and all the neat things I could do with it she just couldn't wrap her head around it.  She smiled and nodded, but it was obvious there was just too much of a technology barrier for her to understand what I was explaining.  I consider myself a child of the technology era.  Things are only going to rapidly develop and expand from here.  I get this funny feeling that when I'm on my deathbed my grandchild will come to me and tell me about his latest gadget or gizmo and I too will have a tough time comprehending how this technology works.  But for him, it'll just be second nature.   
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: tbart on July 17, 2013, 09:35 pm
forgot which, but think it was the kippinger newsletter, there was an article about "fiat" currency, and this next part i've had a helluva time wrapping my brain around, but one thing that gives fiat money value is the fact the gov't TAKES SOME BACK BY TAXING IT!!

but suspect you're right about digital currency, would save a lot of printing (whether credit cards, paper currency etc) - don't know about the sheeple accepting implants but probably on their smartphones  - but if/when digitcal currency becomes the standardd, bitcoins and anyone possessed will be criminalized -
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: deep987 on July 18, 2013, 03:19 pm
Unfortunately, I don't see it playing out like this.  Here's how I see it happening.  There have already been talks and the idea thrown around of eventually moved currency 100% into the digital world.  Meaning no more cash.  All transactions will be digital....

You're right, but you're missing one important difference between what you describe and bitcoin. The "currency" behind regular currency, even if used in an digital manor, is made up, fuzzy math, federal reserve currency. It is manipulated constantly (bitcoin is manipulated too, but by free market forces as opposed to bureaucratic/political). It is created out of thin air constantly at the whim of some whoever happens to be in power.

Bitcoin is decentralized by design to not allow for any of these problems. It would be the antithesis to the problem you describe. I think it's clear that if bitcoin is going to have problems in the future it will be because it's made overly difficult for a majority of users to acquire.
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on July 18, 2013, 04:27 pm
Unfortunately, I don't see it playing out like this.  Here's how I see it happening.  There have already been talks and the idea thrown around of eventually moved currency 100% into the digital world.  Meaning no more cash.  All transactions will be digital....

You're right, but you're missing one important difference between what you describe and bitcoin. The "currency" behind regular currency, even if used in an digital manor, is made up, fuzzy math, federal reserve currency. It is manipulated constantly (bitcoin is manipulated too, but by free market forces as opposed to bureaucratic/political). It is created out of thin air constantly at the whim of some whoever happens to be in power.

Bitcoin is decentralized by design to not allow for any of these problems. It would be the antithesis to the problem you describe. I think it's clear that if bitcoin is going to have problems in the future it will be because it's made overly difficult for a majority of users to acquire.

Your last sentence is exactly what I was getting at.  For example, have you ever been in the position where you're nearly maxed out on your credit or don't have the funds on your card and you go to make a purchase and that purchase is denied?  When we go digital and get rid of cash, then I believe the government will restrict the buying and selling of bitcoin.  Those transactions will be rejected so unless you barter or already are holding bitcoin, you won't be able to acquire any.  It's bound to happen because even though there are plenty of sites where you can use bitcoin to buy legal goods and services, there are also sites like SR where you can purchase illegal drugs and to take it a step further there are sites for buying weapons, buying stolen credit cards, putting hits out on people and buying child porn.  So I think the government is just itching to shut down the entire operation.  They have the motive.  And it's just a matter of time before they have the means. 
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: deep987 on July 19, 2013, 01:51 pm
I disagree that the reason the feds would limit access to BTC is because it can be used to buy illegal things. $ bills are used to buy many, many more illegal things than BTC are. Like you said about all regular currency becoming electronic. I just think the reasons for both are pure control, not to keep us safe from people buying illegal things. They want to have their hand/eyes in/on EVERY little piece of your life.
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: tbart on July 20, 2013, 01:31 am
agree with both positions / perspectives but the feds will be trying to stamp btc out for another reason: their lack of ability to control it's movement. Years ago, the firearms company i worked with did some business with the Jordanians - they wanted to pay us in swiss francs or wanted us to open an acct at their bank (the one they owned) in switzerland so they could pay us thru that acct. When we asked why, their response was that US State Dept requires (and had obtained agreement on this by international treaty) every transaction in excess of $10,000 has to be reported to US State. They felt it was none of State's business - unfortunately, the export license for the product was going to have to be approved by State Dept, so they'd know, no matter what currency the transaction was in, or what bank it was conducted thru.

It's all about control
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: CannabisConsumer on July 20, 2013, 02:31 am
If they mixed their data on IP addresses to data stored publically on the blockchain they could easily find most end-users.

Bitcoin is hardly an anonymous currency, why do people treat it like it is?
Title: Re: bit coins going up
Post by: iAmMe on July 20, 2013, 03:28 am
Just read an article that Satoshi Dice was bought for approx $11mil. Wonder if its true. If so, how it will affect the value of bitcoins.