Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: Tunbear on May 01, 2013, 03:55 pm

Title: Option for buyers to cancel early if vendor doesn't hedge escrow.
Post by: Tunbear on May 01, 2013, 03:55 pm
It seems a lot of people lost out on money while I was away because they couldn't cancel their order as the BTC crashed so quickly that by the time they had the chance to cancel their order, their bitcoins had dropped in value massively.

Now I know this is a risk you take by shopping with unhedged vendors, but I don't think buyers really take much notice of this - it's the vendors who it benefits because they know, generally speaking, coins will rise more often than they will fall and even when there's a major crash its a minor bump in the road, but to a customer this is much more unfair.

Also crashes are great for recovering some of the funds paid out to hedged vendors when there's a dip, and customers are getting shafted in pretty much all scenarios, even to the point where vendors will cancel an order because they know the BTC they'll receive will be shit (and I'not not done it myself but I certainly would if I was gonna end up losing money, I'm a drug dealer not a charity case..that being said I'd sort em out another way).

Long story short maybe it would be a good idea for customers who are going to suffer heavily in a sudden BTC drop to have the chance to cancel early, if the vendor allows it, even going as far as choices like if there is an x % drop in value of your BTC in 2 days you can cancel early, and/or an option for the customer to receive a pre-selected reimbursement, of lost funds.

For instance, if you ordered something for 10BTC, but there is a BTC crash where they lose 50% of their value in 2 days. The customer could be given several options -
-Cancel the order early, get your 10 BTC back.
-For a small fee, much like the escrow fee, but going to the vendors and not SR, get 25 or  50% of your loss paid by the vendor.
-For a slightly larger fee that goes to SR, same deal, the larger amount
-Pay a set fee or a per transaction fee so that the customer, if he decides on a refund is hedged. Any cancellations by vendors void this.


I know it's pretty complicated and a ballache to implement but it could help bring in more funds (imagine the amount of customers who would choose hedge protection in case of refund because of the feat of the market?)

Just seems customers need more protection because unhedged transactions very rarely benefit the customer
Title: Re: Option for buyers to cancel early if vendor doesn't hedge escrow.
Post by: societyagrees on May 02, 2013, 05:54 pm
I like this idea. I think this or some variation is fair.

A lot of vendors don't hedge their orders. For the most part this has probably been in their favor (I got started when BTC were worth $9 a coin...). Then a crash happens and they cancel orders, fucking customers whose coins were tied up? I understand the pain, but if you aren't going to hedge the $ then you've gotta accept the ups AND the downs.

Title: Re: Option for buyers to cancel early if vendor doesn't hedge escrow.
Post by: Herbal Remedy on May 02, 2013, 09:06 pm
I think this is a pretty terrible idea.  If you don't want your money unhedged going into escrow, then don't order from that vendor.  Find a vendor that doesn't unhedge and order from them.  The free market will work, and if enough customers want hedged escrow, vendors will start providing it in order to generate more sales.

As a vendor who has unhedged escrow, I can tell you that if customers were allowed to cancel early it would be a nightmare.  Imagine going to ship an item, and coming back to find out your customer canceled the order, because the bitcoin price moved and they want their money back so they can order at the cheaper price.  Imagine every time bitcoin price goes up, customers are canceling their orders and then reordering at the lower price.  When does it end? Using this logic, a customer that ordered from me in February when the bitcoin price was $25, should get some money back from me because the price went up.  They are "losing out on money". lol

Basically right now, vendors are allowed to cancel if they need.  But those vendors put in hard work, pay a $500 bond, and if they cancel orders, they are going to have very unhappy customers who won't buy from them in the future.  But there are legitimate reasons for a vendor to need to cancel an order as well.  Buyers on the other hand can create multiple accounts for free and just cancel orders all day with much less of a consequence.  Also there is no feedback page for buyers to out them as cancelers.  Your solution is to compound the problem by allowing not only vendors to cancel, but now you want buyers who are much less accountable to be able to cancel.  If a vendor has buyers canceling orders every 5 minutes to get a better price, then the vendor will probably need to retaliate and also cancel orders due to fluctuations as well.  It would be ridiculous.

If vendors are going to have unhedged escrow and then cancel orders because of bitcoin fluctuations, then they are a poor vendor.  Out them in their feedback and the forums. 
Title: Re: Option for buyers to cancel early if vendor doesn't hedge escrow.
Post by: XXXotica on May 02, 2013, 09:12 pm
^^^^Bingo.
Title: Re: Option for buyers to cancel early if vendor doesn't hedge escrow.
Post by: ItalianMafiaBrussels on May 02, 2013, 09:24 pm
Just wanted to quickly add: I'm a vendor who processes all orders (unless it's a scammer ofc), bitcoin crash or not. As some people might know i had some difficulties around the bitcoin crash until 2 weeks ago. I had a lots of bulk mdma orders placed at 150-200 euro/btc, I'm proud on myself that i didn't cancel and got my customers what they wanted :-)

I'm not a sissy man, i will send everyone's order, even if bitcoin crashes to to 50 USD or whatever  8)

My risk!

But then i can't stand those customers in resolution who try to squeeze out a higher-than-agreed refund rate by saying "Hey man you win anyways because the btc price rose" i mean turn off the bullshit please, what if the coin went down in value, then they don't bring up "Hey man you really lost a lot on this" anymore. I unhedge, so i take the loss or win. My decision, my risk, and i will always stand by my word and deliver  :)