Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: mikejones4321 on July 31, 2013, 07:57 pm
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This applies to people in the US but since the constitution is derived from the Magna Carta and the Magna Carta is the basis for law in the first world then you probably have similar statutes and rights in your country. I am new here (obviously) and I don't like to deal with trouble. After reading through a few threads I'm probably not going to order anything because it seems too risky. However, this reply was intentionally for someone who got raided but I figured this is a good info the mods here might want to sticky. It's a fucking shame that the War on Drugs have brought us to this but with a little knowledge you can keep yourself safe! So let me break it down for you guys and hope this helps. This isn't legal advice, it's simply how I would (and do) handle interactions with the police.
First and foremost you need to understand the terminology. You have three types of police interactions.
1. Voluntary interview - this is where the police are interacting with you on a voluntary basis and they do not have what they need for a:
2. Terry Stop - Named after Terry vs. Ohio. A Terry stop is a "brief and non-intrusive interaction". The key here is "brief and non-intrusive (no search). The element needed for a Terry Stop is "reasonable suspicion".
3. Arrest - when the police have probable cause. An arrest is defined legally as "forcibly restrained as in through the use of handcuffs". Anytime cuffs are placed on you, you have been ARRESTED. Even if they don't take you to jail or charge you with anything.
Reasonable suspicion - "Articulatable fact that a crime has been, is being or is about to be committed". For instance, if a police officer sees zig zags on your dashboard, that MAY be reasonable suspicion that you might have pot (which is total bullshit anyway). So they can ask you a few questions and detain you in a "brief and non-intrusive" manner. However here is the kicker. The 5th Amendment of the constitution states that you do NOT have to answer any questions, period. So even if they claim to have "reasonable suspicion", they can't force you to answer any questions! Don't! Simply as "am I free to go?" and don't answer ANYTHING besides giving them your name.
Probable cause - this is the standard for arrest. If they find a prohibited substance on you, in plain site, then it's probable cause. But you should NEVER give the police enough information for them to obtain probable cause and if you understand the 4th and 5th amendment, then you never will.
Here are a couple of situations (hypothetical and taken in the context of a traffic stop and from something that might spring up from a situation here).
Situation 1
Police bang on your door and claim that they seized a package containing illegal substances. What do you do? NOTHING! Simply do NOT answer the door. If they had enough to get a warrant they would be kicking down the door, not knocking. They are knocking because they are trying to get enough info for a warrant or an arrest. Simply state "I do not answer the door for police. If you have a warrant I will stand back with my hands in the air and you can kick down the door. "
Situation 2
Police kick down your door. There isn't much you can do at the time so just get on the floor with your hands up or whatever they ask you to do. Cooperate ONLY in the context of staying out of their way. Do not say ANYTHING or answer any questions, PERIOD besides "can I see your warrant?". Then if the police ask you to come to the station, tell them you'll be happy to answer questions with your lawyer present, period. Do NOT give them ANY information besides your name. PERIOD.
If you open the door for them they simply can say "I smelled marijuana" and search your house and your person. So NEVER open the door for the police. Police are NOT your friends, they will not "help" you, they are there to ARREST you, period, end of story.
In a traffic stop, same rules apply. Do NOT answer ANY questions. Here is how a traffic stop should go.
Police walk up: "do you know why I pulled you over?"
You: (rolling down the window just a few inches so you can hear them and hand them your DL and Insurance) "Am I being accused of a crime"??
Police "Can you roll your window down please?"
You: "I can hear you just fine. Am I free to go or am I being detained?"
Police: "Sir, I'm going to need you to roll down your window"
You: "Am I free to go or am I being detained?"
Police: "Can I see your drivers license and insurance please?"
You: "Am I being lawfully detained? I'll be happy to give you my drivers license if I am being accused of a crime. If I'm not, I would like to go".
Police: "Well sir/maam, you were doing 45 in a 40".
You: "You are mistaken but I will comply with your request for drivers license and insurance, here you go" (slipping it through the window".
At this point is could get weird. Either the police officer will understand you know your rights or they will ask you to get out of the car. Most likely, they will ask you to get out of the car.
When you get out of your car, you lock your car and roll up your window. This is IMPORTANT as it tells the officer that you do NOT consent to a search.
Police: "Why did you lock your car?"
You: "I'm not answering any questions today. If you are going to give me a ticket I would like to be on my way."
In a perfect world, police will respect your rights and just give you a ticket but most police will try some games with you.
Police: "Where were you heading to tonight?"
You: "I'm not answering any questions, am I free to go?"
Police: "Why aren't you answering any questions?"
You: "I would like to know if I am being detained or if I am free to go."
At this point either the police officer will ask you to stay put while he runs your DL or he/she will try to search you. The ONLY time a police can search you without a warrant is when they SUSPECT you might be ARMED. And if they suspect you are armed they can only PAT YOU DOWN for weapons. They cannot stick their hands in your pockets or search other places.
Police: "Turn around and put your hands on the car"
You: "I do not consent to a search. Do you suspect that I am armed?"
Another trick they might pull is saying "do you have any needles that will stick me if I put my hands in your pocket?"
The ONLY thing you should say is "I do not consent to a search". It's important though to not resist even if they are illegally searching you. What is important is to get your objection to the search on the record.
Here is where it gets tricky. Most states have laws that allow a police officer to search you if the dogs smell marijuana. That gives them probable cause for a full search, which is total bullshit, but the supreme court has upheld it. So one of two things is going to happen at this point.
Either the police officer will walk back to his/her car, give you a ticket and you're on your way or they will threaten to call the dogs. If they threaten to call the dogs, this is what I tell them.
"I do not consent to a search and I need to be on my way. According to Terry Vs. Ohio, any stop must be non-intrusive and non-evasive. If you hold me here longer than what is reasonable for a traffic stop, you are violating my constitutional rights to be protected against unreasonable searches and seizures".
They may still call the dogs anyway. If they do.
"Officer, I would like you to call your supervisor please because this is impeding my right to move freely and I must be on my way".
If the officer is smart, he/she will give you a ticket and you'll be on your way. If not, they might call the dogs anyway. Once they call the dogs there isn't much you can do because they will cause the dog to false alarm and search your car anyway. It's best practice to simply not carry anything with you! However if you MUST, it's good practice to conceal your private belongings in private like the trunk of your car. Trunks are harder to get into without a warrant. Also, if it takes you 15 minutes to hide it, it will take hours for the police to find it so make sure you spend time hiding your private stuff.
By practicing the above, you are protesting enough to ensure even if they do find something your lawyer will be able to get it thrown out of court for refusing the search. Police don't know the law, you have to remember that. They will violate their own policies and statutes out of ignorance. It's your job to make sure you do NOT consent to ANYTHING or give them any information.
This is your 4th amendment. Learn it and use it!
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"
This is your firth amendment. Learn it and use it!
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
So what have we learned? NEVER EVER EVER TALK TO THE POLICE! Simple, end of story.
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exactly.
When I do this, the worst thing that happens is my shit gets confiscated. When I don't, I get arrested, and sometimes, charges get filed (avoid this - IT IS EXPENSIVE and TIME CONSUMING)
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Great post!! I know the false trigger with dogs is bullshit, I have a German german shepherd and I can false trigger whenever I want with simple movement or body language.
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This is greattttttttt
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Great post! Thanks a bunch!
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This was perfectly worded and not too obnoxious! GREAT POST!
Ryno
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Another thing about your 5th amendment (and this only applies when being questioned, generally after an arrest. But it really can apply anytime you're being questioned by police) - you actually have to literally say that you are "invoking your 5th amendment rights". The supreme court decided that unless you specifically say that you are using your 5th amendment rights, that your silence can and will be used against you. So be sure to specifically tell them you are using your 5th amendment rights, and that you want to speak with your lawyer. The US supreme court (SCOTUS) is made up of mostly fascists who don't give a fuck about the constitution...they're politicians in robes interpreting the constitution to fit their ideology. At least here in the US. But the far right fascist ideology is spreading around the world like stage 4 cancer, so its likely that many more countries will fall in line with the far right extremists in the US).
Just wanted to throw that in there. When I read about that ruling, I nearly vomited. The US is slipping closer and closer to fascism by the day. We've been a police/prison state for some time now, and its only getting worse. Soon enough, we may have no rights at all. Rights will only be reserved for the very rich and multinational conglomerates (most of you are well aware that we already have 2 justice systems in place. Rich people don't do time...everyone else does). I mean, the fact that corporations are now considered people is insanity (people who can not be held accountable for their crimes). When a corporation is given the death penalty after their actions result in a death(s), I may get on board with this...until then, I can't see how corporations can be given the same rights as human beings at all. But alas, the US is corporately owned, so these corporations can get away with anything they want. Sorry for the rant...I see what's happening in this country and it really frightens me.
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Thanks for posting this, hope it gets stickied