Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: Slupper on July 11, 2013, 07:29 pm
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I have only ever consumed alcohol and smoked weed. No cigs or anything else, not even once.
I am going off to Uni this coming fall for a double major in Computer Science/Electrical Engineering. I will almost assuredly be drinking and [depending on the outcome of this thread, which I will also be posting in the Drug safety forum once 50 is reached] smoking more weed.
I have high aspirations when it comes to job, and as such, trying other drugs and even continuing smoking weed has me a bit scared. I have interest in MDMA, but.. yeah.
The question for long-time drug users: (I guess it's two, really)
Do you think drugs have had an impact on your cognitive ability? Memory, etc.?
Is it ALL about not abusing it and only using drugs every once in a while to not do damage to yourself, or will ANY amount of usage have some sort of permanent effect?
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Goodness, this thread has the potential to be quite a polarizing topic of discussion.
Define long term drug user; Do you mean heavy (more than a few times a week in my opinion), casual (a couple times a month), or light (maybe once or twice a year)?
Much of what you'll find is subjective.
Take cannabis for example: Some will say they've literally been smoking/consuming heavily since birth and have had no negative cognitive or physical effects. Other will say that they've definitely noticed a decrease in memory, cognitive clarity, and of course the dreaded smokers cough (yes, believe it or not, burning plant matter (cannabis) releases benzene/hydrocarbons/carbon monoxide/etc. which are terrible for your health not to mention carcinogenic [benzene]).
Frequency as well as intake method (smoking a joint, using a water pipe, vaporizing) are very important to forecasting possible health effects and the severity of said health effects.
"Harder" drugs like MDMA should be approached with caution, as it has the potential to cause permanent damage to serotonin receptors if abused. Spacing out MDMA sessions (once a month max, less if possible) and making sure your stuff is clean is PARAMOUNT! This allows your neurological system to recuperate and will greatly (if not fully) reduce chances of neurotoxicity.
That said, I've never had any long term effects from MDMA use -- I find it to be an absolutely lovely, perspective-changing substance!
Every drug is different in these regards -- I'd search through the forums to answer any more questions you may have. This site can be quite a valuable resource.
Best of luck. :)
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Great response, meta. Thanks!
And I'd define "long-term user" as pretty much any of those. I'd just like anybody responding to specify whether they were a hardcore user, light user, etc. If somebody was a light user and says they have noticed long-term effects, I'd say that's just as important to note as a heavy user saying they have had no long-term effects.
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As someone that smoked weed everyday in college for 4 years then stopped as soon as I graduated I can say that my cognitive ability was definitely impacted in a negative way while I was smoking every day. This was 10+ years ago, but I can still remember the day I realized how much easier things were when my head wasn't all cloudy. As for other stuff, MDMA, coke, pills, etc... it just depends on your usage. If you're an addict and use everyday bad things will happen, not only cognitively, but real life shit like arrests, DUI's, rehab, death, etc... As with anything, moderation is the key. If I have a glass of wine with dinner every night to unwind that's OK, but if I down 2-3 bottles of wine every night to escape from reality, bad things will happen and you won't realize the path you're on until it's too late. Have fun at school, experiment, bang a bunch of chicks, get outside your comfort zone. But don't' do it every day and don't let it interfere with your ultimate goal. As always, moderation is the key. The problem is that some people are hardwired with addictive personalities and don't have the ability to do things once in a while. Make sure you know what kind of personality you have before you get in too deep.
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As someone that smoked weed everyday in college for 4 years then stopped as soon as I graduated I can say that my cognitive ability was definitely impacted in a negative way while I was smoking every day. This was 10+ years ago, but I can still remember the day I realized how much easier things were when my head wasn't all cloudy. As for other stuff, MDMA, coke, pills, etc... it just depends on your usage. If you're an addict and use everyday bad things will happen, not only cognitively, but real life shit like arrests, DUI's, rehab, death, etc... As with anything, moderation is the key. If I have a glass of wine with dinner every night to unwind that's OK, but if I down 2-3 bottles of wine every night to escape from reality, bad things will happen and you won't realize the path you're on until it's too late. Have fun at school, experiment, bang a bunch of chicks, get outside your comfort zone. But don't' do it every day and don't let it interfere with your ultimate goal. As always, moderation is the key. The problem is that some people are hardwired with addictive personalities and don't have the ability to do things once in a while. Make sure you know what kind of personality you have before you get in too deep.
From the part I bolded, I'm not sure if you mean that the effects you were noticing ended after you stopped smoking or if you mean it affected you permanently. Could you clarify?
But thanks for the response. My plan has been to get the studies done during the week and get smacked on the weekend. I don't like the "day after" feeling of a hangover or having smoked the day before. (Though after smoking it's much more mild.)
I've always held the theory that to be creative you need to have fun, enjoy the thing you're doing to do it best. People that haven't done drugs say the whole "I can have just as much fun sober" shit, but honestly I don't find that to be true. Drugs make you open yourself to more socially. I'm just trying to find that happy medium of using drugs to have fun and then to maximize creativity. ("Find the maxima," haha)
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Yes, moderation is a pretty simple, but key concept to keep in mind.
In my university years I dabbled with some drugs. Cannabis is a given. I tried mushrooms (one of the best days of my life), Ketamine, among many others.
The details don't matter too much. I have friends who slowly became daily, habitual smokers - who show very clear, obvious signs of anywhere from mild to alarming levels of impairment. I had friends try Percocet for their first time then devolve into heroin addicts within a matter of months. I have friends who have tried a colorful assortment of substances to no (at least to my eye) harm and moved on to work, graduate study, whatnot.
And this speaks to my own personal self. But for me, the most impairment I got was from benzodiazepines. They are more dangerous than the layman gives them credit for. They obviously have an enormously therapeutic upside to them, but the downside tends to be shrugged off. Did I need them when my condition was horrifyingly debilitating, paralyzing? Yes. Did they cause cognitive impairment? Yes. But I digress. I keep a mental list to myself of substances I "know" never to try, but it's tailored to suit/fit me.
Moderation. :)
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MDMA/Cocaine are definitely a big jump up from Cannabis, and its advisable to stay away from it if you have had any previous issues with addiction. There is also the issue of having your product cut, with Cannabis, and Alcohol you can be pretty assured that your product is not being cut; with Cocaine, and MDMA its a totally different ball game. MDMA manufacture usually involves some of the same precursors as Methamphetamine (Methylamine), and so you will often find MDMA chemists also manufacture meth... keep this in mind.
The biggest part is, you are going from Cannabis, likely grown in some one's basement, or some small time grow op, to a multi-million dollar operation that involves the importing of watched chemicals (meaning organized crime is almost always involved). When you get up to drugs like Cocaine, and MDMA, you are playing with fire; not only is the potential for addiction tripled, but you have a much larger chance of running into people you don't want to be dealing with. Once again, there is a big difference between a couple thousand dollar Cannabis grow op, and a multi-million dollar Cocaine/MDMA import/manufacturing operation.
Keep this in mind when you are making your decision, and make sure you properly research both your source, and the chemical in question. This is not something you want to just throw yourself into, tho movies may make it seem like an easy road, these substances have ruined people's lives, and have an enormous potential for both a positive, and negative impact on your life.
Most of all, choose what seems right for you, don't base your decision off others opinions, but your own.
Best of luck, and remember, knowledge is power.
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As always, moderation is the key. The problem is that some people are hardwired with addictive personalities and don't have the ability to do things once in a while. Make sure you know what kind of personality you have before you get in too deep.
Great advice if i could plus +1 you for that statement i would!
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I meant that after a couple months of not smoking my cognitive function returned to its baseline. While it's impossible to say whether or not there was a minor long term effect, I can say with certainty, for myself, that there was a substantial difference in the clarity of my thoughts and an increased drive to get things done correctly and in a timely fashion. I have not noticed any negative long term effects from smoking regularly over a 4 year period, but I can definitely say that there is a huge difference in cognitive function between being a regular user of marijuana and not using at all. I'd advise you to have fun and experiment, but if I had it to do over again I would not have made 1/8-1/4 of herb part of my daily routine.
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i've used every drug under the sun. however, i didn't find any that were worth using habitually, because in the long-run the negatives will always overshadow the benefits. that being said, i think drugs made me a lot happier about both myself and the world which we all share. using drugs therapeutically is one thing, abuse is another. it is up to each individual to choose which path to take. good vibes friends.
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Awesome answers from everyone in this thread. It's definitely helping me to make my decisions on things. Mainly just moderation.
Regarding the cutting of drugs: I had an ASD repair ("hole in my heart") as a baby. I'm able to do everything anybody else is now, just a murmur is left, but the thought of anything being laced kind of gets me.
I'm probably going to give my doc a call and ask about the whole thing (obviously tip-toe around "oh, well, I'm just saying IF" the drug ordeal) and get his opinion.
How do I go about making sure that nothing is cut with anything too horrible? With dealers on the street, obviously only from people who have bought from them. On SR, I'm assuming it's just to check the user's feedback fully and make sure nothing fishy's going on?
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Awesome answers from everyone in this thread. It's definitely helping me to make my decisions on things. Mainly just moderation.
Regarding the cutting of drugs: I had an ASD repair ("hole in my heart") as a baby. I'm able to do everything anybody else is now, just a murmur is left, but the thought of anything being laced kind of gets me.
I'm probably going to give my doc a call and ask about the whole thing (obviously tip-toe around "oh, well, I'm just saying IF" the drug ordeal) and get his opinion.
How do I go about making sure that nothing is cut with anything too horrible? With dealers on the street, obviously only from people who have bought from them. On SR, I'm assuming it's just to check the user's feedback fully and make sure nothing fishy's going on?
Have also done every drug under the sun and i would say that with the heart murmur i would be REALLY
careful with certain drugs-cocaine, mdma and amphetamines. the can raise and lower your heartrate
drastically. i would ask your doctor although his answer is sure to be slightly bias. you can at least sift
through the facts about what he tells you maybe cross ref via google or other sources. anything that
is done at the right dosage not frequently is mostly safe. so if you so venture i would start with smaller
doses than most just to gauge. happy trails
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Interesting you should mention a concern regarding cuts/fillers. This happens to be a primary concern of mine.
Such a concern plays a significant factor in my personal decision(s) not to try cocaine, MDMA, ...; anything that I'd need to purchase in powdered form, and/or anything that by nature must be manufactured in a clandestine laboratory. Hey, I imagine I can be overly paranoid/cautious at times. I wouldn't want to purport that such options are poor choices for other people.
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Skipping right over the "do drugs fuck my body/mind up" questions...
If you're going to a real University, like for engineering in the US, an ABET accredited one... partying and engineering don't jive. Not even talking about a double major, just engineering alone. You're not a Communications major, you don't get to hit the bars/frat parties like them. And you want to double major?... not going to happen. Engineering isn't for everyone.
Even if you were a genius, trying to keep up with even the weekend party crowd will kill your academic career.
IMHO... Make a decision; either hunker down and study, or go party animal. If you chose to study your butt off, you'll have the money later for whatever you want... chicks, drugs, whatever. But the other way around... well...
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moderation is the key!!!
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Psychedelics have improved my mind in every way imaginable.
As Terrance said, if you're worried about side effects, remember natural plant materials tend to be safest. You can't fatally OD on cannabis, shrooms, cactus, vegetal. Once you start getting into chemical or even highly refined substances (meth, cocaine, sugar) you're potentially asking for trouble. The exception to that rule is LSD. IF it's LSD, and not something else.
If you want to become a space cowboy, you might want to look at shrooms. 20,000 years of safe use. Will send you out past pluto if you want. Easy to tell by looking if you've picked or purchased the right substance. Deep. Will improve your brain rather than eat holes in it.
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@HenryC0833- I'm only new to SR but have a huge interest in psychedlics as a tool for self-exploration and introspection on a level not facilitated by 'the everyday'.
One of the main reasons I'm so grateful for SR is not having to deal with dodgy dealers who are trying to sell NBOMe as LSD, and who knows what else as LSD.
On here reviews by buyers paint the picture. I'm finalising some bitcoin stuff and looking to buy and try both mushrooms and LSD... exciting and illuminating times ahead no doubt.
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i can say weed helped me during university years, at least as far as courses are concerned
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Out of all the substances i have done, I would say weed was the worst long term, although I was smoking every day, the problem is with the extremely potent weed you can get now, when I first started smoking it was mainly solid/pollen and that was fine, once I started smoking skunk regularly it made me lazy/paranoid/socially awkward with non-smokers, I have no problem with it now and will have smoke if its offered but have no desire to purchase it. It must be said though, I had no problem in stopping it whatsoever even from an oz a week.
MDMA is amazing and should be tried by everyone at least once IMO, to me it is all about the setting though, Its great for raves etc. and just chilling with mates, It leaves me with no desire to do it everyday and most people I know are the same, in fact it is rarely abused.
M-cat is a different story, It is now more common then coke around here and has certainly fucked a few people up as its relatively short action and desire to do more and more just to maintain a level leaves it wide open to abuse! Although most people will be fine with it.
Opiates in general have little positive effect on me, I imagine I'm in the small percentage who have a natural tolerance to them so I can't really comment much on them, they do nothing for me.
Mushrooms are very good and again should be tried by all IMO. Very clean and beautiful high. A really useful drug to provide insight etc. With virtually no abuse potential. Same goes for most natural and naturally derived psychedelics.
Ketamine, well where do we start, It is a fascinating drug to me and I have used/abused it for severall years. It has no physical addiction, but the k-hole is an escape from reality and it is widely abused these days, I have personally struggled with it for a couple years, problem being its so short acting that you fully feel fine just a couple hours later and as such it can be used after work etc. without feeling crappy the next day making it very easy to form a habit. Tolerance also builds rapidly.
None of these drugs have ever done me any long term mental damage though, although as has been said, the old phrase could not be truer with most things in life 'everything in moderation' Remember that and have fun!
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MDMA is amazing and should be tried by everyone at least once IMO, to me it is all about the setting though, Its great for raves etc. and just chilling with mates, It leaves me with no desire to do it everyday and most people I know are the same, in fact it is rarely abused.
interesting :)
i tried mdma, in pill form, for the first time a few days ago, and i can say i was worried for a moment that i may liked it too much lol
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mind over matter
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I've noticed people that use, are more open minded about things and more worldly. I've also noticed from this forum, that people seem to know how to construct sentences better than people on Yahoo forums.
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Nice thread my friend.
As everyone says moderation is the key.
During my student times I discovered weed as well. I can say I did abuse it very much. I can say also it help me many times during studying but in general I did abuse weed a lot. 10-15 joints every day...
Now I still smoke weed but in a very respective way (my opinion). I can say I do it almost everyday but 1 or 2 mini joints. I use it during tasks that can be boring such as cleaning, fixing stuff or when I want to write, read, have sex or if I am going to see a movie/documentary.
Moderation is one key and the other is respect. Especially if you get involved with psychedelics. Many people use psychedelics such as LSD just for fun. The way I see it psychedelics should be taken in order to understand yourself and you existence.
Don't force yourself into substances just because you have the chance to get some. Think about it first, make your setting good and then give a try.
As for the "life after using", don't worry. Nothing bad will happen to you if you take the right doses, good quality and always respect substance that alter your way of thinking. Substances can really help you built your character, but they are not the only thing. Now that you going to college try and find some time to travel and meet new places and people. That's one of the best ideas to do when you are student.
Drugs are mind openers but so is traveling as well.
Wish you good luck in student years my friends. And remember again. Moderation and respect is important in any stage of your life...
Adamiz
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I've tried almost every single popular drug on the market, including all of the below listed drugs, and abused many of them at some point, and I assure you, no matter what drug, trying it a single time, or using it in limited moderation is not likely to cause any kind of permanent damage if you're an adult. If you OD or take a different drug thinking it's something else, that might be a different story, so always educate yourself about effects and dosages and make sure you know exactly what you're taking before taking it.
But can be a very short road from there to abuse and addiction, and at that point there are very real risk of causing yourself long-term harm. If you don't want to run that risk you shouldn't do it at all because you never know when you are going to really like a drug too much. My rule of thumb is don't do any drug more than once a week, with the exception of weed, and some you should do less. Drugs are just tools, you can't build a house without a hammer but you can murder people with one too. These are the worst drugs in order in my opinion:
1. Meth. Some people try meth and don't like it, some people can even use it once in a while without serious side effects, but some people who particularly like it do indeed get addicted very quickly, and once you're addicted to meth, it's probably the most difficult to stop, and very toxic. For meth there is nothing like methadone as there is for quitting opiates, when you quit meth after being addicted, it's just horrible withdrawal for a month or longer. I just don't recommend doing this recreationally at all, if you want to do speed get some regular amphetamines (adderall), they aren't exactly good, but meth is a serious whole other problem. It is a soul-stealing drug, it can completely destroy your body and mind and leave you wanting more
2. Opiates. Heroin is worse than pharmaceuticals because it's impure and cut and therefore toxic especially if you are shooting it, but in general, pure opiates are nontoxic, once you quit you're off and won't be worse for it. They are however extremely physically addictive. If you start doing a lot of opiates every day you wont be able to stop. Youll probably need to go to the methadone clinic, but if you actually want to quit methadone makes it much easier than speed to quit. If you want to do opiates recreationally I wouldn't do them more than once every 2 weeks because they are so addictive. Also overdoses are possible and very bad and can be deadly
3. Crack. Crack isn't actually that toxic, even if you are addicted, you can quit and not have any terrible permanent defects. It's not likely to kill you. The problem with crack is that it's much more addictive than powder cocaine because you get really high and crash really hard quickly, and it is by far the most expensive drug to be addicted to, if you start doing crack you can easily find yourself with no money and stealing for more.
4. Nitrous oxide. I'm not even kidding. It's nontoxic in moderation but if you get addicted to nitrous oxide it can cause permanent, irreversible nerve damage. Most people can't afford to get addicted to it but if you do it's very hard to quit and does kill your nerves and can make you quite literally insane. It is just an all around shitty drug, expensive, doesn't last long, bad side effects, I would just do something else if I wanted to get high. Don't do it more than once a week and take lots of vitamin B-12 every day if you are going to do it ever.
5. MDMA. This is pretty much nontoxic in moderation, it can cause depression in the days after but you're generally back to normal within 3-7 days. the problem is if you start doing it too much it depletes your serotonin levels, and if you take it when your serotonin is completely depleted it becomes much more toxic, besides just not working very well. Don't do it more than once a month, once every 2 weeks if you want to push it, but doing it every weekend is going to turn out bad. And take tons of 5-htp afterward. However once you quit there arent generally permanent effects, but if you way overdo it (like doing it several times a week) there still can be. Also make sure you always know your source and use test kits, because there is a lot of fake ecstasy pills and molly out there, and if you combine MDMA with PMA you can die
6. Powder cocaine. The main problem with powder cocaine is the cut, it's not really that harmful itself but the cuts can be much worse. The main risk of getting addicted to this drug is turning into a broke mean jackass, but it's not physically addictive or really very hard to quit for most people.
7. Benzos, GHB, and alcohol. These all are depressants with similar effects so I group them together. GHB is a naturally occuring chemical in your brain and nontoxic and very fun but never combine it with other depressants. I put them here because most people can do them pretty often and not get addicted, but if you take them in large excess every day, when you try quitting the withdrawal is even worse than opiates, can last for weeks, very painful and there is nothing you can do about it except taking more depressants.
8. Psychedelics. Nontoxic, almost completely harmless in moderation if not beneficial, but they can be psychologically addictive and if you start doing them too much you can become disconnected from reality and HPPD is a real risk, google for more info. They will change you, but generally for the better not worse
9. Weed. If you're over 18 or so you can smoke weed all the time for the rest of your life and not have any serious problems, but it can start making you crazy. If you're under 18 you can smoke occasionally but i don't recommend doing much of any drug and try not to do any if you're not a fullgrown adult because your brain is still developing and you don't know how that's going to affect you. However it too can be addictive and hard to quit for some people
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The OP has experience with alcohol, one of the most dangerous drugs IMHO, and he's worried about pot causing permanent damage. LOL ::)
Fact is, everything you eat, drink, smoke, ingest, everything you think, changes you in some way. Changes your brain growth and function, changes your body, changes your appearance etc.. Everything!
YOU are the Head Keeper, you decide what to think, what to do, when, and how much.
What you should be most important for you is keeping your college education your top priority. You should earn the right to "toke" it ez once you have finished your studying, or earned the grades you wanted. What are your goals for GPA? Do you have a high opinion of yourself and your ability?
Or do you want to just barely graduate as a computer scientist/electrical engineer? If you shirk your education you won't get very far in the real world. You won't get promotions or raises, you will just keep slaving away at the bottom of the food chain for a pittance. Your co-workers will have to carry your burden in the workplace, and believe me, they won't like fixing your ineptitudes and fuckups.
I personally did all kinds of self-medicating shit in college, day and night, so I can't say I followed my own advice. Nevertheless, things turned out quite well for me once I learned moderation.
To avoid permanent brain damage, keep busy, be thinking and engaged in your classes. Don't waste your time on video games, TV and facebook. One exception - listen to good music every day, it will help your brain grow!
One thing that will help you in college is some ritalin, adderall, dexies, black beauties, white cross. They will help you meet your priority of education and give you more time to PnP.. 8)
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@TriangleList
Wish I had enough ass to give you Karma points, that was quite possibly the best no-shitter I've ever heard. That should be required reading for every smart-alek 13 year old in the world.