Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: nmp222 on September 23, 2012, 07:39 am
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Admittedly you can use cyanide for certain chemical reactions but none of them involve people getting high. Should it be allowed to be sold? Potassium Cyanide is a super deadly poison and I think someone who buys it really is looking to kill someone.
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the number of ways to kill people is so vast I kinda doubt that someone would go so far out of their way to acquire cyanide through SR for the purpose when there are just as effective means of poison in most people's backyards. I don't really see any reason to buy it, but I also don't see a reason to ban its sale.
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i kinda agree, i though what is that doing being listed. there actually was a huge thread on a similar topic when someone kept trolling asking about purchasing anything to kill someone. it was a long time ago though
if anyone is in the situation to actually utilize KCN in a chemical reaction, then they already have it readily available in their lab generally
the type of person on SR is not likely to use it for any healthy productive purpose - generally it would be to cause harm to someone. i have an incredible respect for life and love of all others, so i strictly am against violence or inflicting injury. if it was up to me cyanide whould not be made available easily. it definitely has the potential to promote murder and suicide.
cyanide is so effective and "hands off'" there have been many documented instances where people went out of their way to obtain cyanide. its the most common ingredient in suicide pills which people actually still take to prevent themselves from going to jail - look up Micheal Marin, Leonard Lake or Alan Chmurny. There are many homicides, the most famous of which are the 1982 tylenol murders and then the stella nickell's copycat murders - killing her husband with cyanide then poisoning capsules of excedrin too, killing others to collect "accidental death" insurance money.
Its also used as a terrorist agent - in the subways of tokyo, a planned attack on the New York subway supposedly, was used by the Third Reich in holocaust gas chambers, and then to commit their own suicides - including the Hitlers (Adolf simultaneously with a bullet), even the Peoples Temple kool-aid cult massacre of 900 lives, and now used for govt execution in some states
i think SR actually has a policy against listings such as weapons and poisons but i guess it kinda falls into a gray area especially the way the listing is worded. if SR was contacted they may actually take it down though. but i mean i am on heroin which has been used by many people to commit murder, suicide, or accidental death as well.
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http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=43772.msg473889#msg473889
pretty sure the uses for it in organic chemistry are mentioned in this thread, if it reassures anyone,
not sure what to think personally
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the gray arena of the gray market lol
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I think it should be available. Freedom of life and choice. It's what SR stands for.
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I assume this is about substances like potassium cyanide which will result in rapid death if ingested.
I see no reason to ban them when people are using them to commit suicide - that would be similar to banning rope,
Cyanide can also be used in terrorism though, where a suicide attacker would mix a decent amount of potassium cyanide with acid in order to kill both himself and all people on the same subway cart, bus, or plane. This could be a good reason to ban a substance, but in this case it is not effective. Things like potassium cyanide are essential to chemical industry, and are also very easy to produce from other common substances like ammonia and natural gas. A ban on the substance would only hinder legitimate use but in no way stop people from using it for malicious purposes, and therefor just be symbolic politics.
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You can easily kill a person 20 ways from Sunday with many of the chemicals listed on the site. Give someone too much nicotine (it's a rather small amount) and they'll die, to much of any stimulant is death. Hell most drugs here will kill you if you take too much. And cyanide can be taken in safe doses. Just because someone COULD overdose themselves or someone else does not mean we should ban it.
I get real tired of the thought police trying to ban things just because they COULD be used improperly.
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you all are missing the point - especially whoever is talking about banning cyanide as a political movement... were talking about a listing on SR and whether it should be taken down.
the ONLY reason it would qualify for being taken down is if it was specifically restricted from being listed by SR. a case was made that more often than not cyanide is used with mal intent to harm. heroin may be deadly as well but it generally is not purchased to cause harm. see the difference?
according to the sellers guide below, cyanide would likely fall into this category. the point is to keep SR above things like weapons so it cant be demonized as badly - a line is crossed from a right to use drugs to the right to buy poison... which is why the armory was created and then closed.
quoted from the SELLERS GUIDE:
"RESTRICTED ITEMS
Do not list anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud, such as stolen items or info, stolen credit cards, counterfeit currency, personal info, assassinations, and weapons of any kind.
Do not list anything related to pedophilia.
Practically speaking, there are many powerful adversaries of Silk Road and if we are to survive, we must not take them all on at once. Additionally, if you try to please everyone, you will wind up pleasing no one. So certain things are restricted just so we don't scare too many off.
On a moral level, we take the high road, pun intended ;). Those who seek to control the behavior of their neighbors through force are immoral. Silk Road exists to circumvent that force and provide a safe-haven where civilized people can come together in peace for mutual benefit. To allow listings of items designed to defraud or harm innocent people would be to stoop to the level of the very people we are standing up to."
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On a moral level, we take the high road, pun intended ;). Those who seek to control the behavior of their neighbors through force are immoral. Silk Road exists to circumvent that force and provide a safe-haven where civilized people can come together in peace for mutual benefit. To allow listings of items designed to defraud or harm innocent people would be to stoop to the level of the very people we are standing up to."
wow.. so poetic. SR fuckin' rules!
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I'm not in control of what is or is not allowed to be traded here. Thinks like potassium cyanide do have, however, a decent potential to be used as a weapon too. On the other hand its a substance that would aid someone in committing suicide without any additional victims too.
I suppose reason is in place here - ordering 1 gram to kill youself would not be a problem as far as SR ethics are concerned. Ordering a kilogram however should be a clear indication that the intent is not just suicide - bit that could still be for lab research and not for terrorism. If someone orders a kilogram of KCN combined with a few liters of concentrated hydrochloric acid that should ring some alarms, but anyone planning an attack would probably not be stupid enough to order both at the same place.
Since death by cyanide poisoning is unpleasant at best, i doubt there would be much of a market for it though. There are a lot of substances for sale here that would result in death in large doses without such unplesantries.
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Admittedly you can use cyanide for certain chemical reactions but none of them involve people getting high. Should it be allowed to be sold? Potassium Cyanide is a super deadly poison and I think someone who buys it really is looking to kill someone.
Wrong. Cyanide is an excellent reagent and precursor for many drugs. The total synthesis of lysergic acid involves a reaction done in a solution of sodium cyanide in hydrogen cyanide. Potassium cyanide like in the ad could be combined with benzyl chloride to create benzyl cyanide, then to p2p via the acetonitrile, then to meth. Cyanide is a great chemical, not just a lethal poison. It's not something I'd be willing to work with in a clandestine lab due to the poisonous aspects but I do make and work with mercuric chloride, which is in some ways more toxic since exposures can be cumulative. A half gram in your hamburger and you'd be just as dead as if it were cyanide, lol. Hold the pickles. ;)
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The add is now gone.
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Cyanide is an excellent reagent and precursor for many drugs.
It's even a fairly common reagent in the chemical industry that has noting to do with drugs at all. Thinking of it that way, there would be very few (if any) chemicals that have a sole purpose in suicide or murder. There is an endless list of compounds that are used in organic synthesis but also are very nonporous otherwise. Controlling all of those would mean a heap of paperwork without any guarantee none if it is leaked,
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Admittedly you can use cyanide for certain chemical reactions but none of them involve people getting high. Should it be allowed to be sold? Potassium Cyanide is a super deadly poison and I think someone who buys it really is looking to kill someone.
The first thing that needs to be said is that, if you need to kre-8 a new username in order to ask this, you're not comfortable with talking about this under your main name, or you have been given answers but do not like them and are attempting to appear as a 'new insight'. (SR members have patiently tried to enlighten you regarding the many legitimate uses of cyanide, but without apparent success.)
The second is that we have already debated this in other threads exhaustively. This is old commentary on old news, re-posted minus the scattered diatribe and in a slightly more civilised tone, but unfortunately not without the same crackpot logic. You are wasting everybody's time here.
The third is that decisions regarding prerequisites for listings on Silk Road is made soley by DPR, without needing consensus from the entire SR community. He does not need your approval to approve of lists. This is his site, not yours.
The fourth is that if you do not wish to purchase something from SR, you are not in any way compelled to and are free to buy something else.
The fifth is that if you cannot handle Tor-based marketplaces without turning the forums into an ethos-religious debate as a result of your being uncomfortable with it, then you really should not even be here, let alone on SR.
And sixth, that you needn't bother pretending this is your first ever time on the Silk Road, and someone's made a mistake and terribly confused or so forth as nobody can be bothered with this. (Date reg: 23 Sep. Dste posted: 23 Sep. Last seen: 23 Sep. Total posts: 1)
We do not need trolling on these forums by people with multiple usernames positing 2 liners of vitriolic posiion and then leave, only to return the next day to do it again. Just go. This is not the place for children. Read through the posts, there is some very good comments that should allay your fears. If those fears persist, or you wish to continue arguing or subtly undermining DPR, or anyone with an opinion different to your own, you should kindly leave.
Thank you, and fuck off.
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Because I drilled down from a search and got to it that way, long story, I had no idea how old it was. Anyway, it peed me off.