Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: mrxempire on February 26, 2013, 03:53 am
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Hey guys, I am planning on taking 600 ug of LSD in about a month. I have friends who would like to take these with me, but I would rather take lighter 100-200ug doses with them. I feel that taking such a high amount is better saved for introspective solo trips. Would you agree? Most of my friends are too frightened to take that high of a dose anyway haha. I am going to take 3 days off of work, and take the doses early in the morning, with 2 rest days afterward, just to be safe. I am an experienced psychonaut, and have been very interested in high doses ever since i mistakenly took 500 ug and freaked out. Now that I know what an extreme dose is like, I feel I will be able to handle myself when I do take it. I'm not planning on taking anymore than 600 ug, but would I trip harder if I took 1000 ug instead of 600? Or is there a maximum level of ingestion where taking more acid doesn't do anything? Please feel free to share your own high dosage LSD experiences here as well. I am very excited to take a higher dosage with a more prepared mind. ;D
P.S: When I took 500ug, I had a sober trip sitter with me, and he mentioned something about flies, and all of a sudden I saw what looked like rainbow fruit flies buzzing around my head. My friend thought it was very comical that I swatted at the air for 5 minutes. Has this ever happened to any of you? Even though I was super fucked up, I knew the flies weren't real so I didn't get too weirded out.
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Hey mrxempire,
I think 600 ug is a good starting heavy dose for you, especially since the 500ug dose was strong. I have extensive experiences with LSD in particular (among other psychs) at varying doses, but mostly high doses. I definitely agree that if you're going to go for 600 ug, then you should do that dose on your own or with ONLY ONE other person. The more people you add, the more egos you have interacting, the more distractions and finally it all ends in confusion with everyone sitting or walking around going "wait...What?"
With LSD, there really is no "cap" dose. That is to say that you could take a 1200 or 3200 ug dose and you'd find that the effects are greatly amplified. I also think that taking a dose this high is excessive and not productive for anything. The psychic content that will come through will be too confusing and will be coming in too quickly. It will be hard to have any sense of control or integration of the experience. Stick to doses at or below 1000 ug. My highest dose trip was 800 ug and it was crazy but my most meaningful trips were dosed at around 3-400 ug. More than anything, the mindset and mind capacity of the individual taking the LSD is what will ultimately determine the impact that the dose will have on him/her.
With regards to your P.S.: Yes, this is common on LSD and other psychedelics. People tend to be much more open to suggestion, especially when it comes to visual or sensory phenomena. It concerns me that you describe the trip as you being "super fucked up". If this is the way you're thinking 600 ug is going to be, then I suggest you reconsider the reasons why you're going to use this drug. When used for the wrong reasons, the lessons can be taught harshly. I wish you the best, and I hope this information has been helpful.
May you find Peace, Love, and Deeper Understanding. :)
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Hi, I don't myself have experience with doses beyond 450 ug which was a bit too heavy for me at the time, but I have recently been reading Stanislav Grof - Czech psychiatrist who supervised about 4000 LSD sessions and he says that in by far the most patients doses beyond 500-600 ug produced no new phenomena and that giving higher doses for most users has no purpose.
He does mention though that people suffering from OCD seems to have a higher resistence to the experience. The most extreme case he experienced was one highly obsessive compulsive patient who had no reaction at all until the 6th time he was given 1600ug (ie he was 5 times given 1600ug with 0 reaction and the 6 time they gave him the dose there was a minor reaction). He attributes this to their strong fear of/resistance to loosing control.
And note this was lab grade LSD not "the dealer said it was ..." dosage strength.
For by far the majority though there does seem to be a point around 500-600ug where taking more will make only minor or no difference.
This is from LSD: Doorway to the numinous by Stanislav Grof - highly recommended reading - can be gotten on Amazon.
His other books are highly recommended too - especially the one called The cosmic game where he goes over a very large number of the religious/ mystical ego death / merging with the universe types of experiences that will frequently occur to LSD users typically after one has had a series of 200ug + trips.
On doing it alone / with friends that really depends about how mature and experienced your friends are. If you are confident they they will not freak or act stupid or start to fuck with your head or such being with others adds another dimension that really can enhance the trip and the positive feelings. If your are unsure about them however the doubt will hold you back and tend to keep one from giving in to the experience.
I most of the time trip alone.
It is hard to say which experience has been the strongest or best as there has been many and some are very hard to explain but one strong expeience was flying through the universe going faster and faster for 9 hours straight sort of Odyssey 2001 style
Closed eyes / dies and leave the body at about T +1 see the earth from above and pass the moon at T+1.10 pass outer solar system just moments later and then it goes faster and faster until galaxies and universes are just flying by so fast it is just a blur. That is about 2 hours into the trip. From there on it just gets even faster and faster and the most unbelievably beautiful and vast scenery passing by.
Finally at the end I open my eyes and the room melts away like butter and I have arrived at a big black sort of doorway. I can see through or into the door and in there is just infinite endless nothing, like a passage of no return into the unknown. I am really unsure about whether to go through but decide not to, don't want to completely loose the connection the world. The room returns and I am gently returned to normality.
That was on about 350ug.
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Balls.
You got 'em.
Big titanium-cored, brass-plated balls.
In the immortal words of Tommy Chong, "I hope you're not busy for about a month man!"
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i had a bad trip with 700 ug... based on that experience, i would suggest having a sitter. but my set and setting were less than ideal in that trip.
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Go hard or go home....
or go hard then stay home lol
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sitter would be nice. in case you need someone to be your ego for you!
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I'm a solo tripper, but approaching that level of dose (540ug) I've definitely thought "I'll be ok, but a sitter would really be nice". Maybe different in a 100% secure location (mine averages about 95%), it would do away with that back-of-the-mind worry that I'm going to do something (dangerously) stupid. And of course worry and tripping do not nicely mix. YMMV.
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I always found it difficult to find an adequate trip sitter. But if you do find one and want one, go for it.
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I feel like i could vanquish this beast by myself. Back when i took 500ug, i was by myself, and the experience was so overwhelming that I had to call a trip sitter over at about the 2 and a half hr mark. However, the experience was mostly positive. It made all of the other times i had taken L look like childs play. I really want to go back to that level with a more prepared mind. I wish I was a better writer so i could describe to you guys the crazy things i saw. For a few minutes it made me forget i had taken acid, and i thought the world was ending for a good 15 minutes. It would be nice to share this experience with a friend or two, but i don't think any of them would be willing to take that much with me haha and if they did, we would be unable to speak with everything that would be going on in our heads
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Hey mrxempire,
I think 600 ug is a good starting heavy dose for you, especially since the 500ug dose was strong. I have extensive experiences with LSD in particular (among other psychs) at varying doses, but mostly high doses. I definitely agree that if you're going to go for 600 ug, then you should do that dose on your own or with ONLY ONE other person. The more people you add, the more egos you have interacting, the more distractions and finally it all ends in confusion with everyone sitting or walking around going "wait...What?"
With LSD, there really is no "cap" dose. That is to say that you could take a 1200 or 3200 ug dose and you'd find that the effects are greatly amplified. I also think that taking a dose this high is excessive and not productive for anything. The psychic content that will come through will be too confusing and will be coming in too quickly. It will be hard to have any sense of control or integration of the experience. Stick to doses at or below 1000 ug. My highest dose trip was 800 ug and it was crazy but my most meaningful trips were dosed at around 3-400 ug. More than anything, the mindset and mind capacity of the individual taking the LSD is what will ultimately determine the impact that the dose will have on him/her.
With regards to your P.S.: Yes, this is common on LSD and other psychedelics. People tend to be much more open to suggestion, especially when it comes to visual or sensory phenomena. It concerns me that you describe the trip as you being "super fucked up". If this is the way you're thinking 600 ug is going to be, then I suggest you reconsider the reasons why you're going to use this drug. When used for the wrong reasons, the lessons can be taught harshly. I wish you the best, and I hope this information has been helpful.
May you find Peace, Love, and Deeper Understanding. :)
Very wise post. I greatly enjoyed reading that :)
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Hey mrxempire,
I think 600 ug is a good starting heavy dose for you, especially since the 500ug dose was strong. I have extensive experiences with LSD in particular (among other psychs) at varying doses, but mostly high doses. I definitely agree that if you're going to go for 600 ug, then you should do that dose on your own or with ONLY ONE other person. The more people you add, the more egos you have interacting, the more distractions and finally it all ends in confusion with everyone sitting or walking around going "wait...What?"
With LSD, there really is no "cap" dose. That is to say that you could take a 1200 or 3200 ug dose and you'd find that the effects are greatly amplified. I also think that taking a dose this high is excessive and not productive for anything. The psychic content that will come through will be too confusing and will be coming in too quickly. It will be hard to have any sense of control or integration of the experience. Stick to doses at or below 1000 ug. My highest dose trip was 800 ug and it was crazy but my most meaningful trips were dosed at around 3-400 ug. More than anything, the mindset and mind capacity of the individual taking the LSD is what will ultimately determine the impact that the dose will have on him/her.
With regards to your P.S.: Yes, this is common on LSD and other psychedelics. People tend to be much more open to suggestion, especially when it comes to visual or sensory phenomena. It concerns me that you describe the trip as you being "super fucked up". If this is the way you're thinking 600 ug is going to be, then I suggest you reconsider the reasons why you're going to use this drug. When used for the wrong reasons, the lessons can be taught harshly. I wish you the best, and I hope this information has been helpful.
May you find Peace, Love, and Deeper Understanding. :)
Very wise post. I greatly enjoyed reading that :)
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! :)
Just trying to spread the positivity and aid people to being better rather than having more problems.
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Agreed that 600ug is a good starting point for a first "strong" LSD trip. There isn't much to say that zipstyle hasn't (nice post!), but I personally find mushrooms to be more "introspective" and LSD to be "extrospective" if that makes sense, although they both certainly have both qualities. And as for a very high dose, my highest for LSD alone was 1mg. I find that I enjoy taking both mushrooms and acid in unison more than taking say double the acid. The combination has made for some "breakthrough: trips in terms of introspective and extrospective realizations, and the visuals are the best. But when you smoke a dose of DMT on top, it's just... psychedelic perfection. Anyway, I'd just recommend taking LSD with mushrooms rather than taking more LSD or more mushrooms.
In terms of having a supervisor or whatever. It's never really been necessary for me. But I would say this depends entirely on yourself. I usually like having others around on LSD (obviously not any asshole though), and go for solo trips on high-dose shroom trips because that's where ego death comes into play at a smaller dose than LSD. Even at 1mg, my ego was still more intact than on anywhere 8+g of PE mushrooms.
Have a good trip!
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Anyway, I'd just recommend taking LSD with mushrooms rather than taking more LSD or more mushrooms.
I second this. I took a 60 µg blotter once, then later 4g mushrooms. The mushroom trip was far more intense than usual even though I only ingested minimal amounts of acid.. Wouldn't have gotten as far with 5-6g shrooms alone ;)
But I haven't tried high doses of LSD yet. It will happen soon though :)
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Although taking mushrooms and LSD in unison sounds like a great idea, i am unable to do so since everytime i eat mushrooms i get sick. Doesn't matter if its plain, or in tea, or in chocolate. Everytime I eat mushies i get sick. Would someone describe to me in more detail what "ego death" is? Is that where you forget who you are and feel "oneness with the universe" or something like that? Im not sure if i experienced that last time i had a high dose
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Ego death is when everything you are or think you are melts away. It's both terrifying and liberating all at once. If it's never happened to you before, you will know when it does. Because you simultaneously realize that you are the most significant AND insignificant thing in the universe.
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woah that sounds crazy. That will be my goal. How much L does the average person need to take to reach this level?
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There is no exact dose that will give you this effect. It's all based on set, setting, and mindset. Some people require very low doses to "get it" (the core message of LSD and other psychedelics centers around egolessness), and other people require much higher doses. If you have never taken LSD or seriously practiced meditation, then you should probably avoid this until you do so that you can enjoy and understand it better when it happens (or after it happens). Otherwise it will hit you like a truck and you'll be left wondering what happened.
But I digress, sorry. To answer your question more directly, I would venture to guess 2-3 strong tabs might do it. 4-6 tabs will very likely force it upon anyone that takes that dose. This can have very negative outcomes if someone is not ready. Lower doses of LSD always yield the best results.
As with all drugs, try to find your LOWEST EFFECTIVE DOSE. :)
Live long, learn, be happy.
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woah that sounds crazy. That will be my goal. How much L does the average person need to take to reach this level?
There is no exact dose that will give you this effect. It's all based on set, setting, and mindset.
This is very true. But I think it is worth mentioning that from my experience and others I have spoken to through the years, it is much much easier to experience ego death on mushrooms. The ego death I experienced at 1,000ug was still not as intense or "complete" as the ego deaths of a lesser intensity on mushrooms.
But, it could differ by person. LSD and me just get along fantastically. I am always very very, in control of the situation even when I attempt to meditate and "float away" into the experience.
In terms of dosage of shrooms, it takes me at least 6-7g of very good mushrooms, but I have tripped with someone who had an ego death on 2.5g. It depends on a lot of factors.
everytime i eat mushrooms i get sick. Doesn't matter if its plain, or in tea, or in chocolate. Everytime I eat mushies i get sick. W
I'm sorry to hear this. I have never gotten sick while tripping, so I may not be a good source of info, but it is always a good idea to fast before a mushrooms, peyote, or ayahuasca trip -- really any natural psychedelic. If you eat a small meal 2 or 2.5 hours before dosing that is high in protein and low in carbs or any "stomach expaning" ingredients, you would be much better off than say eating a fuckton of pizza. When you get sick have you eaten before? And do you just "purge" once or is it a constant feeling of nausea? Many people find the purging to be cleansing and therapeutic, I can't speak for that though.
I have never had a bad experience, or even a bad moment on psychedelics in years and countless experiences from the drug or my mind itself. Obviously external factors I've had can have a negative influence but usually they are momentary, and usually solvable. IMO, much of people's problems come from not respecting the experience enough and just "jumping" into it. You must respect the drugs for what they are, love them, and they will love you back. That might sound like a load of lunacy, but it's always worked for me and those I teach it to first hand.
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I used to be able to enjoy mushrooms with no problem. I really enjoyed taking them. However, ever since I had one bad experience, i get sick every time. I can't stomach the taste of eating the mushrooms plain. I can eat them without throwing up, but at about the three hour mark I start to feel very sick, like i'm going to throw up. Then I start throwing up, but it's not like a purge. It's a series of dry heaves that result in a tiny bit of vomit slowly dripping out of my mouth. For the next three or four hours, i experience waves of these dry heave puking episodes every ten minutes or so. I think i just can't get the taste of the shrooms out of my mouth. I just keep thinking about how gross they are and they make me sick. I ate a mushroom chocolate at a festival last year that only had a slight nasty taste and the same thing happened. The only time in the last two years that I haven't got sick was at that same festival when some dirty hippy gave me this weird psylocybin extract pill that had this tiny amount of brown goop inside. Holy shit did i trip balls from that. It was sort of a bad trip though. The come up of psylocybin makes me feel sluggish and lightheaded. I had to go back to our campsite and rest for like 20 mins, but then i started to feel nice again. So, it seems to me like mushrooms are out of the question for the time being
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But I think it is worth mentioning that from my experience and others I have spoken to through the years, it is much much easier to experience ego death on mushrooms. The ego death I experienced at 1,000ug was still not as intense or "complete" as the ego deaths of a lesser intensity on mushrooms.
That's my experience, too.
Re: nausea - I've come to expect nausea with shrooms and LSD - but more with shrooms - and see it as part of the coming up of the trip. (The couple of times I'd actually been tempted to get sick I held on instead and extremely intense trips resulted - I think these were dose and setting issues) Try adjusting dose downward and/or re-interpreting the sensation if you can.
That being said, I've just tried 4-AcO-DMT, which is reputed to provide a mushie trip without the nausea, and I can say that it did indeed do that. Only one try so far, however, so don't take it as a strong recommendation yet. But it was very recognizably a psilocybin/psilocin trip (in all the good ways).
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I used to be able to enjoy mushrooms with no problem. I really enjoyed taking them. However, ever since I had one bad experience, i get sick every time. I can't stomach the taste of eating the mushrooms plain. I can eat them without throwing up, but at about the three hour mark I start to feel very sick, like i'm going to throw up. Then I start throwing up, but it's not like a purge. It's a series of dry heaves that result in a tiny bit of vomit slowly dripping out of my mouth. For the next three or four hours, i experience waves of these dry heave puking episodes every ten minutes or so. I think i just can't get the taste of the shrooms out of my mouth. I just keep thinking about how gross they are and they make me sick. I ate a mushroom chocolate at a festival last year that only had a slight nasty taste and the same thing happened. The only time in the last two years that I haven't got sick was at that same festival when some dirty hippy gave me this weird psylocybin extract pill that had this tiny amount of brown goop inside. Holy shit did i trip balls from that. It was sort of a bad trip though. The come up of psylocybin makes me feel sluggish and lightheaded. I had to go back to our campsite and rest for like 20 mins, but then i started to feel nice again. So, it seems to me like mushrooms are out of the question for the time being
Oh ok, the taste. Yea they aren't fantastic and sometimes while I'm wolfing them down I do get a gag reflex if I go too fast. You could try eating them with something like a cereal bar or something similar. One bit food, one bite shroom, one bite food, chew, chew, chew, swallow -- repeat. Also, don't eat them like normal food, literally try to chomp them as fast & efficiently as you can. Then you could get something to wash your mouth out, a flavorful drink, or a strong mint. I agree, shrooms taste horrible.
In regard to the pill, if it wasn't a capsule with ground or powdered shroom, it was most likely psilocetin (4-AcO-DMT) and can provide a different experience than psilocybin. Up to you mate, shrooms are definitely harder to "control" or guide but if you are looking for an ego death, there is no alternative in my opinion. Also, I'd say shrooms are more prone to bad trips, especially if done in public. When tripping in public, I always go LSD. LSD for the festivals, and shrooms for home or the park.
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On taste: if you like (regular) mushrooms at all, fresh shrooms should be like munching on any mushroom - from pleasant to at least easy to take. But I find powdered shrooms to be pretty horrid. If even a shroom chocolate is too shroomy, then I'm guessing you're not a mushroom lover.
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I used to be able to enjoy mushrooms with no problem. I really enjoyed taking them. However, ever since I had one bad experience, i get sick every time. I can't stomach the taste of eating the mushrooms plain. I can eat them without throwing up, but at about the three hour mark I start to feel very sick, like i'm going to throw up. Then I start throwing up, but it's not like a purge. It's a series of dry heaves that result in a tiny bit of vomit slowly dripping out of my mouth. For the next three or four hours, i experience waves of these dry heave puking episodes every ten minutes or so. I think i just can't get the taste of the shrooms out of my mouth. I just keep thinking about how gross they are and they make me sick. I ate a mushroom chocolate at a festival last year that only had a slight nasty taste and the same thing happened. The only time in the last two years that I haven't got sick was at that same festival when some dirty hippy gave me this weird psylocybin extract pill that had this tiny amount of brown goop inside. Holy shit did i trip balls from that. It was sort of a bad trip though. The come up of psylocybin makes me feel sluggish and lightheaded. I had to go back to our campsite and rest for like 20 mins, but then i started to feel nice again. So, it seems to me like mushrooms are out of the question for the time being
Oh ok, the taste. Yea they aren't fantastic and sometimes while I'm wolfing them down I do get a gag reflex if I go too fast. You could try eating them with something like a cereal bar or something similar. One bit food, one bite shroom, one bite food, chew, chew, chew, swallow -- repeat. Also, don't eat them like normal food, literally try to chomp them as fast & efficiently as you can. Then you could get something to wash your mouth out, a flavorful drink, or a strong mint. I agree, shrooms taste horrible.
In regard to the pill, if it wasn't a capsule with ground or powdered shroom, it was most likely psilocetin (4-AcO-DMT) and can provide a different experience than psilocybin. Up to you mate, shrooms are definitely harder to "control" or guide but if you are looking for an ego death, there is no alternative in my opinion. Also, I'd say shrooms are more prone to bad trips, especially if done in public. When tripping in public, I always go LSD. LSD for the festivals, and shrooms for home or the park.
Just wanted to drop in and say that I've always been the complete opposite. Keep in mind that everyone is different, OP. Use others' experience as a guideline, but always consider that you may react totally different.
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Hi, I don't myself have experience with doses beyond 450 ug which was a bit too heavy for me at the time, but I have recently been reading Stanislav Grof - Czech psychiatrist who supervised about 4000 LSD sessions and he says that in by far the most patients doses beyond 500-600 ug produced no new phenomena and that giving higher doses for most users has no purpose.
He does mention though that people suffering from OCD seems to have a higher resistence to the experience. The most extreme case he experienced was one highly obsessive compulsive patient who had no reaction at all until the 6th time he was given 1600ug (ie he was 5 times given 1600ug with 0 reaction and the 6 time they gave him the dose there was a minor reaction). He attributes this to their strong fear of/resistance to loosing control.
And note this was lab grade LSD not "the dealer said it was ..." dosage strength.
For by far the majority though there does seem to be a point around 500-600ug where taking more will make only minor or no difference.
This is from LSD: Doorway to the numinous by Stanislav Grof - highly recommended reading - can be gotten on Amazon.
His other books are highly recommended too - especially the one called The cosmic game where he goes over a very large number of the religious/ mystical ego death / merging with the universe types of experiences that will frequently occur to LSD users typically after one has had a series of 200ug + trips.
On doing it alone / with friends that really depends about how mature and experienced your friends are. If you are confident they they will not freak or act stupid or start to fuck with your head or such being with others adds another dimension that really can enhance the trip and the positive feelings. If your are unsure about them however the doubt will hold you back and tend to keep one from giving in to the experience.
I most of the time trip alone.
It is hard to say which experience has been the strongest or best as there has been many and some are very hard to explain but one strong expeience was flying through the universe going faster and faster for 9 hours straight sort of Odyssey 2001 style
Closed eyes / dies and leave the body at about T +1 see the earth from above and pass the moon at T+1.10 pass outer solar system just moments later and then it goes faster and faster until galaxies and universes are just flying by so fast it is just a blur. That is about 2 hours into the trip. From there on it just gets even faster and faster and the most unbelievably beautiful and vast scenery passing by.
Finally at the end I open my eyes and the room melts away like butter and I have arrived at a big black sort of doorway. I can see through or into the door and in there is just infinite endless nothing, like a passage of no return into the unknown. I am really unsure about whether to go through but decide not to, don't want to completely loose the connection the world. The room returns and I am gently returned to normality.
That was on about 350ug.
damn nice post will check the books
1+
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In regard to the pill, if it wasn't a capsule with ground or powdered shroom, it was most likely psilocetin (4-AcO-DMT) and can provide a different experience than psilocybin.
If you make a tea-extract of psilocybin, you can boil it down to a thick brown goo. You put this in gelatin caps and then put them in the freezer. This is best used when you have a lot of mushrooms and want to free up some space :) And I have heard it can be combined with lemon tek.
I often get sick as well, usually with lemon tek. I get a very mild body load on mushroom tea.
Note: My experience is mostly from Liberty Caps. Might taste a bit less than cubensis.
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In regard to the pill, if it wasn't a capsule with ground or powdered shroom, it was most likely psilocetin (4-AcO-DMT) and can provide a different experience than psilocybin.
If you make a tea-extract of psilocybin, you can boil it down to a thick brown goo. You put this in gelatin caps and then put them in the freezer. This is best used when you have a lot of mushrooms and want to free up some space :) And I have heard it can be combined with lemon tek.
I often get sick as well, usually with lemon tek. I get a very mild body load on mushroom tea.
Note: My experience is mostly from Liberty Caps. Might taste a bit less than cubensis.
Good to know. I hadn't heard of this. I've never actually taken the pills, only occasionally in chocolate and lots and lots of raw dried -- never fresh ones either, though I'd like to get my hands on those one day just to give em a try.
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woah that sounds crazy. That will be my goal. How much L does the average person need to take to reach this level?
There is no exact dose that will give you this effect. It's all based on set, setting, and mindset.
This is very true. But I think it is worth mentioning that from my experience and others I have spoken to through the years, it is much much easier to experience ego death on mushrooms. The ego death I experienced at 1,000ug was still not as intense or "complete" as the ego deaths of a lesser intensity on mushrooms.
But, it could differ by person. LSD and me just get along fantastically. I am always very very, in control of the situation even when I attempt to meditate and "float away" into the experience.
In terms of dosage of shrooms, it takes me at least 6-7g of very good mushrooms, but I have tripped with someone who had an ego death on 2.5g. It depends on a lot of factors.
ego death and breakdown of personal controllership are two distinct things. ego death happens when you see through the ego and transcend the ego, not merely when you feel like you have lost control. for me LSD produces ego death most consistently and reliably. Mushroom trips contain more hallucinatory distraction - hallucinations detract from transcendence, they are not usually conducive to it. it's quite possible to experience ego death without even noticing it, simply because you are too distracted by the visuals. I think the ideal drug for spiritual transcendence is one that produces ego death with the minimum of hallucinatory effects.
250-400ug will produce ego death in nearly everyone. 100ug is enough for some people. 400ug and more is necessary only for the most resistant people
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when eating shrooms when i was younger we tried many different foods to eat with shrooms to get them down and not have throwing up sort of episodes ..IS TO EAT THEM WITH KETCHUP.. if that didnt help you eat them on white bread with KETCHUP. i know many people say the same thing about shrooms but when they ate them with ketchup the whole taste stomach thing will be minimal.WARNING I WOULD BE VERY CAREFULL TAKING LARGE DOSES PLEASE i have seen many people get permanetly fucked up mentally.we used to take way to much lsd... we used to call it INSTANT RETARD IN A BLOTTER... moving on my lsd shroom days are long over, any way have a good and safe trip. LLSR
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do shrooms really taste that bad for some people?
they taste fine to me
i put a bunch of shrooms on my steak and ate them, tasted good...
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The taste is different from species to species, but eating dried cubensis isn't that bad; the fresh ones are worse. For semilanceata it's the opposite, fresh ones only taste faintly like dirt, iron or grass, but the dried ones are cringe-inducing mofos. I am one of those who can't eat mushrooms at all if they are not psychedelic ;) I always make tea of them, the taste becomes more recessive then.
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woah that sounds crazy. That will be my goal. How much L does the average person need to take to reach this level?
There is no exact dose that will give you this effect. It's all based on set, setting, and mindset.
This is very true. But I think it is worth mentioning that from my experience and others I have spoken to through the years, it is much much easier to experience ego death on mushrooms. The ego death I experienced at 1,000ug was still not as intense or "complete" as the ego deaths of a lesser intensity on mushrooms.
But, it could differ by person. LSD and me just get along fantastically. I am always very very, in control of the situation even when I attempt to meditate and "float away" into the experience.
In terms of dosage of shrooms, it takes me at least 6-7g of very good mushrooms, but I have tripped with someone who had an ego death on 2.5g. It depends on a lot of factors.
ego death and breakdown of personal controllership are two distinct things. ego death happens when you see through the ego and transcend the ego, not merely when you feel like you have lost control. for me LSD produces ego death most consistently and reliably. Mushroom trips contain more hallucinatory distraction - hallucinations detract from transcendence, they are not usually conducive to it. it's quite possible to experience ego death without even noticing it, simply because you are too distracted by the visuals. I think the ideal drug for spiritual transcendence is one that produces ego death with the minimum of hallucinatory effects.
250-400ug will produce ego death in nearly everyone. 100ug is enough for some people. 400ug and more is necessary only for the most resistant people
It's not just seeing through the ego and transcending it. It is a "perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment, a sense of the loss of "control", the loss of the accustomed feeling of existing as a 'personal agent', and loose 'cognitive-association binding'." That is taken from wikipedia. So, there is certainly a loss of control within an ego death. I don't think it's possible to experience ego death without noticing it, unless you are doing something crazy at the same time it's happening -- so possible, but highly unlikely. You could experience partial ego death, but not complete.
And idk, for me I'd definitely say that LSD produces more "hallucinatory distractions." But really, I don't think that they would at all deprive you of or limit you ego death, for me they'd enhance it. If you experience complete ego death, everytime for me, it was the ONLY thing I could focus on. There was no way I could distract myself from it. It would distract me from fucking anything I was doing. You are pulled out of your reality and put into all reality or the shared reality. You are one with the universe -- your skin melted away, the "ego" that is driving you gone. So you definitely lose control.
Can I ask what you mean exactly by breakdown of personal controllership? Because from what I interpret of it, that would be included in an ego death, but it depends on what you mean by it.
Also on the dosages you list.. I have not experienced ego death on 400ug, closer to double that. But like I said, it depends a lot person to person, but also most especially on how you actually define it. I would also go so far to say that there are different levels & intensities of an "ego death."
do shrooms really taste that bad for some people?
they taste fine to me
i put a bunch of shrooms on my steak and ate them, tasted good...
I don't think it's really about the actual taste, but rather how it incites the gag reflex. I've noticed that it differs by person, mushroom strain, but even by the batch of shrooms themselves. Maybe it has something to do with the concentration of psilocybin. But to me they don't taste bad, just makes me gag on occasion when I eat them alone. I'll have to try them on steak, that does sound good.
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It's not just seeing through the ego and transcending it. It is a "perceived loss of boundaries between self and environment, a sense of the loss of "control", the loss of the accustomed feeling of existing as a 'personal agent', and loose 'cognitive-association binding'."
All of that is included in ego transcendence. But the 'loss' of control is actually a transcending of control events; you watch your thoughts and actions arise automatically, things going on outside of you feel the same as things going on inside, with no distinction between subject and object, giving rise to a mystical feeling of timeless unity with everything in the universe. I find that LSD produces this state most consistently, with a minimum of hallucinatory distraction compared with other psychedelics, but that's just me -- all classic psychedelics can evoke this experience in common dosages.
Also on the dosages you list.. I have not experienced ego death on 400ug, closer to double that. But like I said, it depends a lot person to person, but also most especially on how you actually define it. I would also go so far to say that there are different levels & intensities of an "ego death."
Either the dosage you took was lower than what you thought it was, or you are an unusual case. 250-400 is the dosage range for normal people to experience ego death. If you need more then you must be very psychedelically resistant to the effects of the drug. This was also the dosage typcially used to evoke ego death and transcendental spiritual experiences in psychedelic therapy sessions in the 60s. This is covered in more detail in Grof's "LSD Doorway to the Numinous" and "LSD: The Problem-Solving psychedelic".
Also on the dosages you list.. I have not experienced ego death on 400ug, closer to double that. But like I said, it depends a lot person to person, but also most especially on how you actually define it. I would also go so far to say that there are different levels & intensities of an "ego death."
That is certainly true. My most intense ego death satori-samadhi experience though was was with LSD; my most intensely hallucinatory and 'out of this world' trip was with mushrooms. I've taken equivalently huge dosages of both. I think it's a matter of psychological disposition... Some people place a high premium on hallucinations and visionary experience. Then there's acid quality, cross tolerance with mushrooms, etc., which can definitely effect the intensity of the trip.
Shrooms are definitely more out of this world. With LSD i've experienced past-incarnation memories, precognitive visions, possession, and telepathy...... with mushrooms I've experienced plant consciousness and visions of alien landscapes !
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All of that is included in ego transcendence. But the 'loss' of control is actually a transcending of control events; you watch your thoughts and actions arise automatically, things going on outside of you feel the same as things going on inside, with no distinction between subject and object, giving rise to a mystical feeling of timeless unity with everything in the universe. I find that LSD produces this state most consistently, with a minimum of hallucinatory distraction compared with other psychedelics, but that's just me -- all classic psychedelics can evoke this experience in common dosages.
I do know what you mean. I just have always had this thought that ego death was something that was rarely ever achieved, but now I am seeing that I experience every damn time I trip! I have had a lot of experience tripping but I guess I never bothered to really define "ego death." When I take 650ug+ (or similar dose of shrooms) I achieve a total blend between my mind and reality, which I would have previously consider an "ego death." But so you would consider a simple revelation of your own identity an "ego death." Does it require an ego death to objectively see yourself? I feel that I think in similar ways and had even before I took the first hit. I analyze myself and try to improve on it for the better, and always have. I've always been one to take in all perspectives in any given circumstance.
I think this is really just a matter of how you define "ego death." I know that the experiences you are describing @ the doses described at are accurate, it's just a matter of correctly wording the intensity.
Also on the dosages you list.. I have not experienced ego death on 400ug, closer to double that. But like I said, it depends a lot person to person, but also most especially on how you actually define it. I would also go so far to say that there are different levels & intensities of an "ego death."
Either the dosage you took was lower than what you thought it was, or you are an unusual case. 250-400 is the dosage range for normal people to experience ego death. If you need more then you must be very psychedelically resistant to the effects of the drug. This was also the dosage typcially used to evoke ego death and transcendental spiritual experiences in psychedelic therapy sessions in the 60s. This is covered in more detail in Grof's "LSD Doorway to the Numinous" and "LSD: The Problem-Solving psychedelic".
To be clear, this was not one occasion, I have taken high doses of LSD countless times, peaking @ 1200ug. And I know that I am definitely able to handle myself on psychedelics very well -- always have. But this does not dismiss me experiencing an ego death. Like I stated above, I think this is just a matter of definition. I don't really like the term because it gives the impression of a simple point that you have to reach and there are variants of intensity after reaching this point. It's not like breaking the sound barrier.
Also on the dosages you list.. I have not experienced ego death on 400ug, closer to double that. But like I said, it depends a lot person to person, but also most especially on how you actually define it. I would also go so far to say that there are different levels & intensities of an "ego death."
That is certainly true. My most intense ego death satori-samadhi experience though was was with LSD; my most intensely hallucinatory and 'out of this world' trip was with mushrooms. I've taken equivalently huge dosages of both. I think it's a matter of psychological disposition... Some people place a high premium on hallucinations and visionary experience. Then there's acid quality, cross tolerance with mushrooms, etc., which can definitely effect the intensity of the trip.
Shrooms are definitely more out of this world. With LSD i've experienced past-incarnation memories, precognitive visions, possession, and telepathy...... with mushrooms I've experienced plant consciousness and visions of alien landscapes !
Totally agree on how you've described LSD and shrooms. Although just last Saturday I experienced what felt completely like past-incarnation memories on 6.5g of shrooms. But shrooms are definitely more wacky. With LSD for me, it's easier to reach a point or realization that you knew you were going to attempt before the trip, which would make it better for therapy IMO. With shrooms, you never know what's going to come to you, and it's much more like DMT than LSD is.
Good discussion. Love any talk on psychedelics. :D
+1 to you, sir.
Also, what would you consider calling what I had previously described as "ego death." If we say you're definition is correct, what would you call what I had described? A complete ego death? Ego shattering? Disillusion of reality? A full meld with the universe? Is there a word out there already for this definition?
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With shrooms, you never know what's going to come to you, and it's much more like DMT than LSD is.
"Psilocin (also known as 4-HO-DMT, psilocine, psilocyn, or psilotsin), is a substituted tryptamine alkaloid and a serotonergic psychedelic drug. It is present in most psychedelic mushrooms together with its phosphorylated counterpart psilocybin." - Wikipedia
It is an interesting discussion to follow! I have heard the term ego death being challenged as a misnomer. That most go through an ego disintegration/deconstruction/dissolution. And if there are many ways of describing it, there are many ways to experience it. I have not experienced myself, even on higher dosages of shrooms. "Ego transcendence" rings a bell, as it would be an apt name for the state of mind I entered once, reminiscent of Nietzsches Zarathustra or his concept "Über-mensch". I could describe it as total clarity and control, without prejudice.