Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: Rush Limbo on September 21, 2011, 02:17 am
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Can someone please give me a compelling, technically valid, reason not to use USPS tracking site over TOR?
Do you guys seriously believe USPS tracking system checks the incoming IP address against list of TOR exit nodes, notifies LEs, and based on that they acquire a search warrant for the package, and manage to intercept and inspect it?
REALLY???
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It would be absurdly easy to write a script to do that, so yes I do. Better to be paranoid in this business.
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Can someone please give me a compelling, technically valid, reason not to use USPS tracking site over TOR? Do you guys seriously believe USPS tracking system checks the incoming IP address against list of TOR exit nodes, notifies LEs, and based on that they acquire a search warrant for the package, and manage to intercept and inspect it?...
The reason would be that it's technologically easy and logistically feasible for them to do so if they choose. Knowing that, why take the risk of making their job -- interdicting contraband -- any easier than it need be.
A publicly accessible list of exit nodes is maintained and published by the Tor Project -- couldn't be easier than that. To the best of my knowledge USPS doesn't need a warrant to run anyone's package past a drug-sniffing dog or through an x-ray machine if they feel like it. By using Tor you've given them the perfect reason to suspect that you might be "up to no good". (If you don't have anything to hide . . .) And now they know what recipient (and sender) addresses the Postal Inspectors might want to give a little extra attention to in the future.
Plus it's hardly a challenge to set your browser to connect directly once in a while.
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I use a VPN which erases log files daily. You could you easily monitor TOR traffic and pinpoint what package(s) were being tracked as others have said.
Another thought I have always had is to establish a baseline of the various shipping methods and compute the typical number of times a package is tracked. Domestic and international. All of it. Then it would not matter what you used to obfuscate your IP location because they would already know where the package was going.
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I'm not a specialist, but a VPN could erase the logs of whom accessed a server?
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I'm not a specialist, but a VPN could erase the logs of whom accessed a server?
Here we go:
VPN client at home ------------->Professional VPN service ------------>USPS for package tracking.
Let's say LE is looking for TOR connections/ nodes (as some surmise. I am not so sure since I used TOR to check shipping forever and never had an issue. That does not mean LE has not added this tactic to identifying suspect packages, especially with the creation of SR and increased TOR use.
So just to be safe, I use my VPN service. This way I just appear as a normal IP address accessing USPS. Now if LE wanted to find out who I was, it would lead back to my VPN service. LEO of course would want to identify which customer was using that particular IP and that particular time, but my VPN cannot provide this information. It was purposely coded to delete all log files periodically for member anonymity.
Hope that helps
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Oh, now I understand.
I was thinking a VPN always keep the information of the users, but I was wrong.
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Would like to sign up for the VPN service.
At all possible to let me know who to go with?
Your help is much appreciated.
Thank you.
-Monkey
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1. You shouldn't check tracking directly as it removes all plausible deniability and links you to the order in this way
2. VPN is just as weak to this attack as Tor. Even using an IP address that is in a different area than the package is being shipped to can flag the address as suspicious, so even using a private VPS isn't good.
3. Fuck VPNs, Tor is superior by far, don't trust a VPN to keep you anonymous
4. I think using open WiFi from random locations is the best bet to check tracking
5. or use a proxy site between the official usps tracking site there are a lot of proxy tracking checkers that are probably less likely to flag
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by proxy checker I mean there are third party tracking sites designed to proxy tracking results. Use Tor to connect to them.
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i.e. packagemapping.com
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I can understand why it is prudent to avoid using Tor to check a tracking number, but no evidence.
Until there's a court case citation or a publicly made available LE document that clearly states a package was seized directly or indirectly due to the usage of Tor I'm not going to put much stock into the idea. Of course once there's a reliable source that backs it up then it will certainly become a best practice. to avoid it.
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I'm tempted to start tracking all my Amazon, etc. packages through tor just to throw noise into the system if they are doing that. Maybe I'll teach my mom to use tor. ;)
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I'm tempted to start tracking all my Amazon, etc. packages through tor just to throw noise into the system if they are doing that.
That's a brilliant idea. If many people do it then we can increase the noise-to-signal ratio. :)
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The computational problem and database mining / matching is not an issue, they do such things in DHS for real theoretical crime and terrorism. Even a modestly skilled MS-SQL server guy could write the SQL and a program to massage the results, even going using Map reduce or a variant to cope with the big data deluge that such a trapping (real time or batched) could create. million of tracking item queries by the minute, 100s of K IP addresses from Tor network, some of which are reused from old exist nodes.
Its not as simple as the tech challenge anyway. Where does the legal scheme fit here. what type of traps will these matches get you, who will manage the lists, jurisdiction. >??????
false positives. bad busts leading to lawsuits. Ridicule over running this data gathering and arresting 39 1/2 stoned hackers and those like me (middle aged woman that likes to roll and watch old movies on Netflix.)
We trapped this postal user from our "project Whirlwind Tor cracking logic and AI systems from DHS, and notified LE in 221 cases - we have here defendant X, caught handling .5 gram of MDMA, although defendant X cannot provide information on the seller, due to anonymity of Tor, which we have not been successful in exploiting."
Dismissed!