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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: anonypunk on September 05, 2013, 08:24 pm

Title: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: anonypunk on September 05, 2013, 08:24 pm
This information was copied into notepad then pasted from there to here. I'm not sure if that is against some rules, ethically wrong, or unsafe but I thought that information on this substance might help clear up some things for some people. If you haven't read it already it's an interesting read. I apologize if this will have to be removed for some strange security reason.



Using Methoxetamine
Ways of administration

Note: Dosages are currently speculative
[hide] - [top]Oral
Light   10-30mg
Common   40-60mg
Strong   50-100mg
First effects: ~5 min
Peak begins: 20-40 mins
Peak lasts 2-4 hours
After effects 4-8 hours

Oral consumption of methoxetamine can be acheived by either allowing it to dissolve under the tounge, or swallowing. The onset is much slower and smoother making it ideal for inexperienced users and the nausea is minimal. The taste however is unpleseant.
[hide] - [top]Insufflation/Intranasal
Snorting is reported to be easy, with minimal discomfort.

Light   10-20mg
Common   20-50mg
Strong   50-90mg
Very Strong   90-150mg
First effects: ~10 min
Peak begins: 20-25 mins
Peak lasts 1.5-2 hours
After effects 1-2 hours

The duration, especially the after effects, or 'comedown' will lengthen as the dose increases. The after effects are similar to the main effects, just lessening in intensity as time goes on. The length of this period can be uncomfortable for some.

No hangover effects reported
[hide] - [top]Rectal
Light   5-10mg
Common   25-40mg
Strong   40-70mg
First effects: ~2 min
Peak begins: 5-10 mins
Peak lasts 1.0-2 hours
After effects several hours

Plugging methoxetamine produces very quick onset coupled with a fast descent into dissociation at mid to high doses which could prove overwhelming to inexperienced users. It is also easy to accidently dose to high so starting with lower than usual dosage is advisable.

Achieving total dissociation is easier through this ROA than with oral or insufflation but considerably more nausea may be experienced.

Also methoxetamine has a reputation for not dissolving in water very well. Usually it will dissolve very slowly if stirred, although some have found it impossible with some batches
[hide] - [top]Intramuscular
Light   5-10mg
Common   10-20mg
Strong   20-40mg
First effects: ~5 min
Peak begins: 5-10 mins
Peak lasts 1.0-2 hours
After effects 1-2 hour

Less hangover than, say, ketamine, but tolerance builds up fast. Effects are cumulative when doses are repeated. Repeated dosing too quickly (say, in less than 1.5 hours) can result in anxiety and discomfort.

For those without tolerance, doses of over about 25 mg may result in a disorientated state, which is not necessarily desirable.
[hide] - [top]Effects of Methoxetamine
Mild body load
Mild stimulation
Euphoria
Feeling of floating
Time dilation
Hallucinations
Dissocation
Insomnia
sweating

Anecdotal reports suggest that Methoxetamine is mentally a 'cleaner' dissociative than Ketamine, and less physically impairing as well.
[hide] - [top]Combinations with Methoxetamine
It can be mixed with ketamine or 4-MEO-PCP but unless doses of both are kept much lower than usual, the results may be uncomfortable.

Cannabis, or synthetic cannabinoids will drastically increase the effects of MXE and could cause panic to a person in an already confused state of mind. This is not advised on high doses of MXE until it is sparingly explored on low doses.

Opiates and MXE will potentiate each other. 30mg of MXE and 10mg of hydrocodone will likely feel like 40mg MXE and 20mg of hydrocodone.
[hide] - [top]Different Uses for Methoxetamine
Visualising.
[hide] - [top]Anti-depressant
The discoverer of Methoxetamine:
Quote:
Methoxetamine’s anti-depressant effect is immediate, and it lasts a bloody long time. It could banish an emotional blight on people’s lives[3]


[hide] - [top]Pharmacology of Methoxetamine
Methoxetamine is an analogue of ketamine where the 2-chloro group on the phenyl ring has been replaced by a 3-methoxy group and the N-methyl group on the amine have been replaced by an N-ethyl group.

It is suggested that:

The group change from N-methyl to N-ethyl gives Methoxetamine greater potency than Ketamine

The group change from 2-chloro to 3-methoxy will give Methoxetamine less analgesic and anesthetising properties than Ketamine

The T1/2 (half life) of Methoxetamine will also be longer.


[hide] - [top]Chemistry of Methoxetamine
Methoxetamine is a chemical of the arylcyclohexylamine class.

Methoxetamine   2-(3-methoxyphenyl)-2-(ethylamino)cyclohexanone
Ketamine   2-(2-Chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone


[hide] - [top]The dangers of Methoxetamine
The arylcyclohexylamines light up too many of the reward systems in the brain, with the dopamine-reuptake inhibition, the NMDA antagonism, and the µ-opioid affinity. They lend themselves to abuse and escape to fantasy[4]

High instances of significant urge to redose (fiending) reported anecdotally.

"Somebody in Sweden injected 100 mg of methoxetamine and 400 mg of MDAI ... there were cardiac problems, and the person died."[5]


Anecdotal reports suggest that it has similar psychological addictive tendencies as ketamine for some people, but the longer duration probably means that the 'fiending' may be less intense.

With repeated use, the effects get less euphoric and anxiety increases. From the records of those taking the ketamine daily, one might expect that the a simulation of paranoid schizophrenia might might occur.

Methoxetamine, like all psychologically psychoactive drugs, has the propensity to induce panic and/or anxiety attacks. This is largely dose dependent and therefore users must familiarise themselves with lower doses before attempting high doses.

Obviously people with conditions such as schizophrenia should stay away from this compound.

it [Methoxetamine] has a dose low enough that it should not harm the urinary bladder like Ketamine.[6]
[hide] - [top]Redosing
Taking care when redosing is of great importance. The reason for this will be illustrated a bit more graphically:

insufflation/snorting.

~t+0.20 for the peak to begin
~t+2.00 for the peak to end
~t+4.00 for the after effects to pretty much end.

The after effects take a very very long time to wear off and they are not insignificant effects by any means. Even 30 mins after the peak has 'ended', the effects may still be 70-80% as strong as they were during the peak. This means that redosing 10mg on a 50mg trip at this point will bring the experience right back up to the intensity it had been during the peak. Just from 10mg - and taking 20 mg would bring an, albeit, short, peak back but even higher than it had been during the first peak! After already experiencing a significant 2 hour peak, this can be quite unexpected and unwanted.

the ^ represents a dosage taken
the @ represents the level of effects felt as its equivalent in mg for a certain time.

This is approximate, but should give a good idea.

t+0   t+30.00   t+60.00   t+1.30   t+2.00   t+2.30   t+3.00   t+3.30   t+4.00   t+4.30   t+5.00   t+5.30   t+6.00
^50mg   @50mg   @50mg   ^30mg   @80mg   @70mg   @60mg   @50mg   @35mg   @20mg   @10mg   mild after effects   very mild after effects
^50mg   @50mg   ^30mg   @80mg   @80mg   ^20mg   @90mg   @75mg   @60mg   @45mg   @25mg   @10mg   mild after effects
In the above table, a reasonably large dose is started with- the main dose- and this is supplemented with smaller doses (although not quite small enough- 30 is a large re-dose). Even so, you can see that over time they stack up and cause 1 hour long 80mg experiences which is seriously high (not to be attempted by unexperienced users).

t+0   t+30.00   t+60.00   t+1.30   t+2.00   t+2.30   t+3.00   t+3.30   t+4.00   t+4.30   t+5.00   t+5.30   t+6.00   t+6.30   t+7.00
^50mg   @50mg   ^40mg   @90mg   @90mg   ^40mg   @120mg   @105mg   @90mg   @75mg   @60mg   @45mg   @30mg   @15mg   mild after effects
The table above demonstrates an experience with higher redoses. Note with high dosages that the experience can last longer, especially the after effects. Even though the last dosage was taken at t+2.30, the effects continue until t+7.00. Even though they are mild at that point, see that even at the 5 hour mark the effects are on 60mg- still a significant dose and after tripping for so long, it can start to take its toll. Note also that the increments cause a peak of 120mg, which is seriously high (not to be attempted unless seriously experienced), and lessens very very slowly.

t+0   t+30.00   t+60.00   t+1.30   t+2.00   t+2.30   t+3.00   t+3.30   t+4.00   t+4.30   t+5.00   t+5.30   t+6.00
^30mg   @30mg   @30mg   ^10mg   @50mg   ^10mg   @50mg   @40mg   @30mg   @10mg   mild after effects       
The above table represents an 'ideal' approach to redosing for unexperienced users. The main dose is started with, and then low redoses are taken (if desired- redosing is of course not a must, just something often done).

Because of the long duration of methoxetamine, not appreciating the cumulative effects of redosing can result in an experience which is too intense. Furthermore, as Methoxetamine does not inhibit movement as much as ketamine, hurting yourself during freak-outs is especially dangerous. Additionally, whereas on ketamine you can look forward to coming down fast, on methoxetamine, especially high doses, the return to baseline is long and arduous.
[hide] - [top]Overdose


There has been a published case study of three methoxeamine "overdoses" presenting at a hospital in the UK. The amounts that the users reported taking were 500mg, 200mg and unknown. In the case of the unknown dose, testing of biological fluids revealed a Serum methoxetamine
concentration of 0.20mg/l, compared to the 0.12mg/l found in the patient who took 500mg.
Adverse symptoms common to all cases were:

    tachycardia ranging from 113-135BPM
    Hypertension (187/83 mmHg, 201/104 mmHg and 198/78 mmHg)
    dilated pupils


This suggests sympathomimetic toxicity in high/overdoses. All 3 were treated with benzodiazepines, and suffered no lasting effects[7]


Overdosing on Methoxetamine in the sense of taking so much that negative effects occur can happen. A person might:

-forget they have taken the drug
-become preoccupied with delusions, possibly dangerous ones
-lose all sense of time, reality and self
-become fearful, or panic
-think they have gone insane

In these situations, if a person is experiencing some of these negative psychological symptoms, you must reassure them. Tell them that they have taken a drug, that these are all just effects of the drug and that they WILL end. It can take several hours- but there is a gradual process of re-entry during that time where they will gain more and more awareness. Vomiting a bit is normal. You may have to constantly reassure them, but keep doing it. It might be frightening for you to see someone in such a state, but know that it is purely drug induced- it's your job to simply help them wait for the effects to wear off.

Read more: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Methoxetamine#ixzz2e2ojZRTK
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: anonypunk on September 05, 2013, 08:33 pm
Harm reduction is always a good thing. But stealing others typed words is frowned upon by some for ethical reasons. I'm not going to go ask permission to share information if it has the potential to help. Let me know what you guys think. This could be much better if it were more clinical in nature I suppose.
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: crumbwriggle on September 06, 2013, 04:22 am
I tried MXE for the first time about 4 months ago. Didn't have my scale with me so I "eyeballed" a decent line, that was a big mistake. Ended up snorting 110 mg and having an intense 8 hour trip where I couldn't walk without falling down and holding my head up was impossible. I just laid down for the whole time and listened to chillstep mixes while I basically swung around within my body. It seemed so impossible to get up that when I had to pee, I decided it was better to not move and just piss myself. Regardless it was quite fun for the first half then I just couldn't wait for it for be over. By the end of the 8 hours I thought it was permanent and I had fucked myself up. I finally fell asleep and woke up normal and ready for work.
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: anonypunk on September 06, 2013, 06:55 am
Thats crazy! See if this info had been right in front of you before you snorted that line you could have had a great first time. =) Glad you're okay.

But this is what I'm talking about. We all should really try and help people out in making educated decisions on their drug use. Everyone starts somewhere. So if the info is right there when you're buying it at least you know that you can have a reference.

Everyone should just take the money they were going to get one bag of weed with and buy new scales if they don't have them already.

If you cant do that...

Then maybe a we could get someone with an extremely high precision scale to take comparison photos to help people eyeball amounts.

We could make a photo series on the onion network with varying increments: 10mg powder beside a dime - 50mg powder beside a nickel - 1gram beside a quarter?

Do all the major drugs and then you'd have a visual handbook to help you guess how much you're taking.

See what I mean?

Something along those lines and have a scale based on currencies in different countries.
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: Trippinmonkey on September 07, 2013, 04:21 pm
I love MXE, and ketamine.

Overdosed a lot unfortunately. I got the MXE off of virmo and did not expect it to be really pure and stuff... but yes, it was...

I really wish to experiment with the meo ketamine.. erowid offers no info and only Rinran seems to have it.
Hopefully he will give me some to test and review it :
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: conflicted on September 08, 2013, 10:04 pm
When MXE first appeared on the streets in my area, it was sold as ketamine due to there being a huge long lasting ketamine drought, this I believe was bought about by a change of legal status in India. Although I stand to be corrected on that.
A lot of bad things happened when daily K users aquired what they thought was powdered ketamine (it was actually extremely fine crystal) and went on to consume half gram lines as they normally would with ketamine, I know a lot of people who suffered injury and complete blackouts for hours, in fact I had a bad experience with it myself gaining some bad bruises that I have no idea how I got, however I woke up in bed the next morning still feeling pretty disassociated (some 12 hours after dosing), I have no idea how I got undressed and into bed, the line I did was a CD case length! How foolish I felt, but I had assumed it was rubbish bulked up K which was doing the rounds at the time! Later on I cooked some in the microwave and found that it doesn't cook like K at all leaving a horrible burnt mess instead of a clumpy white powder!

I have tried it a couple times after that in much smaller doses, however I don't think its patch on  K for three main reasons,
 1- It doesn't immobilize you whilst in the 'hole' allowing you to move around in a zombie like state causing havoc and scaring innocent friends etc.
2- It doesn't have the 'magic' of K, at least for me, most of the MXE holes I have been into have been empty voids with dark shapes and outlines.
3- The after effects last far to long for it to be pleasant for me, I feel like a retard for a good few hours.

Having said that it has developed a fairly loyal following in certain areas, many prefering it to K, each to their own I suppose. I did here from some one or some forum that approximately 1 in 20 like it, that statement may well be utter shite though!

Anyhow, Thanks very much to Anonypunk, if we could use these forums and TOR in general to make guides for every drug with approximations for eyeballing etc. that would be a HUGE step foreward and could well save a few fatalities as well as few peoples mental health, its O.K. suggesting everyone buy scales and all but I know as a 17 year old lad, I had a lot better things to spend money on (read DRUGS).

I really think thats the next step for this community and to forward our cause of legalization, we need to make sure people have the correct knowledge at their disposal.

Peace
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: anonypunk on September 09, 2013, 07:11 am
+1 karma to both of ya!

Oh yeah and I agree with you conflicted.
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: anonypunk on September 11, 2013, 08:58 pm
Damn. I have experienced amazing moments on MXE and this tail end of this last batch from Poppermachine was awesome. Fuck! I was catatonic (unable to move as if frozen in time) at one point. I started actually losing it a little bit to be honest but I was definitely in a M-Hole. Good godamn. I am going to try IV next time around. Anyone know the best way to dissolve it fully? Got a fresh point waiting to get in there and do some delivery.
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: anonypunk on September 13, 2013, 08:15 am
I realized today what others had already known. Amphetamines like adderall greatly diminish MXE's effects. Anyone else have this same problem?
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: Trippinmonkey on September 13, 2013, 05:43 pm
I would recommend checking virmo's mxe out. Effects and dosages are the same as erowid describes.
Title: Re: MXE Overview (copied from DF)
Post by: anonypunk on September 13, 2013, 08:52 pm
Thanks. I will do that when I can!