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Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: KingJoey on November 20, 2011, 03:54 am

Title: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: KingJoey on November 20, 2011, 03:54 am
Since I started doing drugs 11 years ago the "War on Drugs" has become something that I have tried to educate myself about and understand. During this time I have studied the "War on Drugs" closely and I have written numerous reports and other documents in an attempt to voice my own view about this so called "War on Drugs."

Like most things the government does they aren't telling the public the real reasons behind their actions or the actual goals behind the "War on Drugs." In order to understand the war on drugs we must read between the lines and eventually come too our own conclusions based on the data.

What is the "War on Drugs?" - The DEA and other government officials state that the "War on Drugs" is the fight to keep illegal drugs off the streets of America and to keep our youth drug free. In reality that is not what the "War on Drugs" is actually about. The "War on Drugs" has several significant goals but it is my firm belief that keeping America drug free isn't one of the significant goals of the "War on Drugs." I believe the primary goal of the "War on Drugs" is for the government too legitimize income in an illegal market, drugs. Its estimated that 9% of the worlds entire trade is illegal drugs. With that being said the illegal drug trade is one of the largest industries in the world. Each year more money is spent on illegal drugs than on cars. That's allot of money. The government wanted a piece of this pie and thus the "War on Drugs" was born.

How is the government earning money using the "War on Drugs?" - The DEA is one of the best examples of one way the government is using the "War on Drugs" too generate revenue. Each year the DEA seizes over a billion dollars in drugs and hundreds of millions of dollars in assets and cash. Some years the DEA seizes over a billion dollars in assets and cash. In the largest cash confiscation the DEA seized over $200 million in Mexico. In 2008 the Department of Justice reported seized property to the value of $3.7 billion dollars. So as we can see seizure of property is a huge business and the DEA takes advantage of this. Once property is seized the regulations regarding what can be done with the money are lax. Which is why we see the DEA driving $90,000 sports cars painted with "Just say no to drugs."

Another way the government makes money through the "War on Drugs" is through law enforcement. Tens of thousands of government agents only have jobs because of the war on drugs. Additionally tens of thousands of other people have jobs in industries that are a direct result of the war on drugs. In total over 100,000 jobs in America are dependent on the governments "War on Drugs."

The "War on Drugs" has created many legitimate jobs in many industries. But some of the biggest industries that prosper because of the "War on Drugs" include federal agencies, cops on the local and state level, lawyers, the prison industry, probation officers, judges, the media who is paid countless dollars each year to air anti-drug commercials and other anti-drug programs, the military (they receive specific funding due to the war on drugs), anti-drug politicians who manipulate the public and gain favor using the "War on Drugs," the drug rehab industry, and of course pharmaceutical companies that capitalize on the war on drugs by creating legal substitutes for illicit drugs that are addictive in their own right but used to help get users off of illegal drugs. There are more industries that are spin offs of the war on drugs like private prison companies and the companies that supply prisons with supplies. There are so many industries that profit from the war on drugs it would be hard too list them all but I hope this gives readers a better understanding of the many ways industries are using the "War on Drugs" for profits.

Is the governments "War on Drugs" a success - Based on my belief that the primary goal of the "War on Drugs" is to generate revenue based on the illicit drug trade I believe the war on drugs is a success. I do not support the "War on Drugs" but without a doubt the government has been able to use the "War on Drugs" to generate revenue. The war on drugs has made all kinds of people in legitimate industries rich beyond their belief. As a result the "War on Drugs" is backed by powerful companies, elite individuals with connections, and of course numerous law enforcement organizations from the federal level to the local level. Although the facts are clear that the "War on Drugs" has little impact on drug supply, price, availability, or use because so many powerful entities profit from this war it will continue indefinitely.

The sad part is the voiceless victims of the drug war do not have a say in the policy and for the most part they do not have enough power too get their point of view heard. Numerous industries would stand to gain if the "War on Drugs" was stopped and society as a whole stands to benefit in some regards. But the opponents of the war on drugs are to fragmented and lack the capital needed too win a fight against some of the most powerful organizations in politics.

All in all the "War on Drugs" isn't really profitable but the point is that the government is able to use the "War on Drugs" to benefit legitimate citizens and generate some taxes and other revenues.




Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: MagicMan on November 20, 2011, 08:21 am
I think George W. Bush said once that we are losing the war on drugs. That statement tickled me pink because he was implying that there was actually a war on drugs and that the drugs were winning. The near-omnipotence of the US government comes to a screeching halt when "fighting" drugs.
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: Aoth14 on November 20, 2011, 06:54 pm
The war on drugs is a war on freedom. Its about people being uncontrollable, mentally and physically.

They want you to do drugs. Only ones that: they control,know will harm your health, or will put you in jail. They dont want us using Cannabis because it doesnt cause war, health problems, legal issues,revenue for the rich,etc until they set up that net to recover the fact they cant sell Rx Marijauana with added pill poisons yet (Marinol/sativex will flop soon I hope). They dont want us selling each other drugs. Because then its our decision and our market. They want to create the problem,get credit/funding for identifying it, then sell the solution, and they've done it.

Eliminating the middle class,setting us up with the same fate of many other once great countries. They've defined what a drug user is,put a spokeperson in a labcoat, and linked drug use directly to poverty. They set our entertainment standards high, and lowered our morals. They tell us if we want to use illegal drugs, how our life will be, and sadly some day I'm sure alot of voters will be willing to trade in their right to bear arms and own land for the right to smoke crack and watch mtv. Thats the only way the war on drugs will end, in an extreme tradeoff that makes us a guaranteed future 3rd world country.

Half the youth are on amphetamines for 'personality correction', while they are not only banned,but condemned for consenting adults. Now they are starting to use the brain-warping phsyco drugs instead of methylphinidate and Adderal. Because they do their research, and know how to raise a child to be docile and indifferent to whats going on around them; soul-less if you ask me personally. 

If the drug issue is still called a war, its obvious whos winning.And to me, supporting the loosing side of a civil war is national treason.

But it doesnt matter. people dont care. most of them dont. not enough to find out whats really going on. Some words of a founding father:

"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers."

"Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now"

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it. "

"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him."


"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. "

Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: oppyate on November 21, 2011, 04:45 am
We have a great system on the War on Drugs. It's 100% fact that in Afghanistan U.S. soldiers are actually protecting Poppy Fields from being burned down by the Taliban. This is Not hearsay or twisting of facts. Google it. Imagine if in today's world whether the FDA would approve the sale of Tobacco Products. Fuck No..Each 6 bucks you pay for 20 ciggs, 4 of them go to State, Government and Lawyers. Alcohol..? Texas, New Mexico and California make millions out of DUI's. They cant keep you from drinking, but they sure have an awsome Ponzi Scheme to milk it for Taxes, Permits and then nailing anyone that stupid enough to tell a cop they've been drinking, even if it was one beer. Weed and Marijuana will likely be Legal soon cause Govie sees the dollar signs. Besides, it's wrong to entice a child to want a Happy Meal cause of the toy, you cant have pop/sodas in schools, Bloomberg eliminated use of Transfats and oils in all of NYC, and more laws will control content of Internet. As far as Silk Road? Govie is probably fuming that everytime someone buys a Vicodin for 5 bucks they are Not getting 8.5% of tax due. Bitcoins can's be used to borrow from one program to another. What a Joke. Now I'm pissed and i'm going to have to chill out by smoking some of my Un Taxed weed.
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: arutha on November 21, 2011, 05:41 am
It seems pointless to me. Each year governments spend millions of dollars trying to stop the drug black market. A solution? Legalise it. Tax it. Regulate it. Black market instantly disappears, government rakes in money for doing absolutely nothing, crimes decrease because there is no dealing with criminals and less chance of drugs being laced with whatever. I personally don't think all should be legalised, some have some pretty bad side effects, but many are fairly harmless and non-addictive in moderation. In fact, less harmful than tobacco and alcohol. It is baffling really.

But yes, while it is illegal it is very hard to band together as a large group and try to enforce changes. In Australia it has got so ridiculous, drug paraphenalia is no longer allowed to be sold like bongs, even though it is still fine to import and own them. Its so stupid (and this really pissed me off) that pipe screens cannot be sold in some states because they can be used for drugs. Little pieces of steel mesh for god's sake!
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: theless on November 21, 2011, 08:10 am
some drugs will kill you, so the government should ban them. that's what they're supposed to do.

but they know nothing about drugs, or maybe they wont admit. no law is based on real scientific facts. there are places where lsd and cocaine are in the same class.

yet some people have governments that are a bit less ignorant so they can smoke weed legally.

thats my view. be safe and dont give a shit about the system
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: mambosun on November 21, 2011, 06:38 pm
On the other hand, if all drugs were made legal who really knows what effect that would have on society as a whole?  I think that alone is a legitimate reason to have some control on psychoactive substances.  Maybe when the general population is more educated about the consumption of these substance we can ease up a bit on the laws.

Seems to me that things are running their course quite nicely, and some day we probably will see a falling out on the "War On Drugs." 
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: psychedelicbees1 on November 21, 2011, 07:29 pm
first of all these are all very well thought out posts.  And I hope that anyone who has made it this far into the black market has given the "War on Drugs" some serious thought.  I know  I have, and I have pretty much come up with all of these reasonings as well.  But last night a friend and I were discussing corruption in the US government, especially the history of its involvement in armed conflict.  Every single war we have been in, we have manipulated ourselves to be in.  The only time we have truely been attacked was Pearl Harbor (we all know 9-11 was an inside job), and even then we had the power to prevent.  However the goverment needs the public support to go into any armed conflit, and they know how to manipulate the masses very well!  What better way than by being attacked?  They struck first, so we are only defending ourselves.  Even if it means INVADING other countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Mexico, Europe during WWI and WWII).  The military is used to enforce the corporate agenda of the government to acquire as many resources(oil, land, cheap labor) that we can get. Now this leads us to the current issue being addressed.  By instilling this "War on Drugs" The government has given themselves full control to attack whichever countries they want, simply say there are drugs there.  It gives them reason to go to MExico and South America and attack trafficker.  Maybe if they ever get smarter than traffickers, they can seize all the drug trade areas and do it's own distribution....  Hell for all we know they are already controlling the drug trade! Anyone remember how Rick Ross got busted?  After years of working with the same supplier, he gor busted because it turns out the the DEA was supplying him!!  There are countless reports of military members being bribed by the DEA to help traffick these drugs... There are also reports of military members mysteriously "disappearing" from declining these request.  So by controling these resources they profit, the profits are even larger when the product remains illegal due to the risk involved.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Treasury doesn't actively launder funds that the government obtains illegally.

I hope this all makes sense as I am really baked right now haha...  Everyone just needs to start learnign how to live off the grid!
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: MagicMan on November 21, 2011, 08:17 pm
On the other hand, if all drugs were made legal who really knows what effect that would have on society as a whole?  I think that alone is a legitimate reason to have some control on psychoactive substances.  Maybe when the general population is more educated about the consumption of these substance we can ease up a bit on the laws.

Seems to me that things are running their course quite nicely, and some day we probably will see a falling out on the "War On Drugs."  Easy up on the paranoia; there's no reason to get all conspiracy theory about this.

Actually we have a pretty good idea of what would happen if all drugs were made legal. Check out Portugal, they decriminalized everything a few years ago and they're doing pretty well. By removing the stigma from drugs Portugal has allowed addicts to get help without fear, something this war on drugs is preventing.
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: mambosun on November 21, 2011, 09:49 pm
On the other hand, if all drugs were made legal who really knows what effect that would have on society as a whole?  I think that alone is a legitimate reason to have some control on psychoactive substances.  Maybe when the general population is more educated about the consumption of these substance we can ease up a bit on the laws.

Seems to me that things are running their course quite nicely, and some day we probably will see a falling out on the "War On Drugs."  Easy up on the paranoia; there's no reason to get all conspiracy theory about this.

Actually we have a pretty good idea of what would happen if all drugs were made legal. Check out Portugal, they decriminalized everything a few years ago and they're doing pretty well. By removing the stigma from drugs Portugal has allowed addicts to get help without fear, something this war on drugs is preventing.

Guess it's time for other countries to follow Portugal's lead, then.  It will come.
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: lazypeepsarebusted on November 21, 2011, 10:15 pm
some drugs will kill you, so the government should ban them. that's what they're supposed to do.

but they know nothing about drugs, or maybe they wont admit. no law is based on real scientific facts. there are places where lsd and cocaine are in the same class.

yet some people have governments that are a bit less ignorant so they can smoke weed legally.

thats my view. be safe and dont give a shit about the system

Maybe you just arn't supposed to take drugs that will kill you, I know I sure wouldn't.
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: KingJoey on November 23, 2011, 05:15 am
the sad part is most of the things in drugs that kill you is cuts.....or other bullshit thats not the actual drug. If drugs were properly regulated like the legal heroin equivalent oxys, roxys, etc then a significant amount of danger would be reduced.
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: towelie on November 23, 2011, 05:45 am
I think the saddest part is someone on SR actually said
"some drugs will kill you, so the government should ban them. that's what they're supposed to do."
 
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: Mistersketch on November 23, 2011, 06:59 am
my view on the war on drugs was forever changed when i found out that CIA agents in the late 80s and early 90s were importing tons of cocaine,

It makes you think, I believe drugs will stay illegal forever since it marks up the price on them and I also believe that the government does already regulate the flow of every single drug on the market other than weed which can be produced by people, why make something legal when they are already making money off of it and making more on the fact that they make it illegal

not to mention all the money they receive for the efforts of the "war on drugs" and all those who are arrested for it

the government has more power and controls more than we know, we are but pawns in their system which has stood the test of time,
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: rbrdx on November 23, 2011, 07:12 am
Yeah, while some drugs, like strong opiates, can be very dangerous them being illegal doesn't help much. At very least, punishing the end user does absolutely NO good for anyone. It only serves to alienate the users from society making it harder for them to kick the habit. They also have to resort to crime to fund their use of ridiculously overpriced narcotics, thanks to prohibition. Work is pretty much out of question for many, as their time is spent on scoring and no one wants to hire a junkie anyways.

And oh, like some one mentioned, it's funny that Afghanistan opium fields are going again, and country just surpassed (2010 or 2009 I think) Morocco as #1 hash producer in the world. That's some effective work you're doing fighting them drugs, guys! One has to be pretty brainwashed to believe that powers to be would actually want to win the war on drugs. Like many have said above, keeping prices up, cutting a big fat piece for governments & corporations and last but not least, to keep the sheep in line with fear are obviously the real goals on "War on Drugs".

"Every strong state needs an enemy"
-Adolf Hitler
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: psychedelicbees1 on November 23, 2011, 07:14 am
I think the saddest part is someone on SR actually said
"some drugs will kill you, so the government should ban them. that's what they're supposed to do."

haha that's for true
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: theless on November 23, 2011, 09:03 am
I think the saddest part is someone on SR actually said
"some drugs will kill you, so the government should ban them. that's what they're supposed to do."

haha that's for true

haha come on a lot of people will die
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: BigFlake on November 23, 2011, 02:18 pm
Did we (the US Government) not learn anything from Prohibition?  Alcohol kills, nicotine kills, but they're legal and taxed.  Do the same with other drugs, the result will be the same.  Those who want to partake, have an absolute right to put whatever they want in their bodies.  The Government's role is not to protect us from ourselves but to protect us from infringing on another's personal freedoms.  This is (was) supposed to be government by and for the People.  Ask yourself, if you've made a transaction on SR, who's personal freedoms did you infringe upon?

That's just my personal view.  Others may not share it.

BigFlake

Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: threatminor on November 23, 2011, 02:37 pm
Okay… Once I move beyond the moronic conspiracy theorists, my minds-eye illustrates the typical suburban white kid sporting a Che Guevara shirt while smoking $300 worth of weed.  Since you've written extensively about the war on drug - which ended about 3 years ago - I'll play devils advocate with the intention of getting you to think critically rather than superficially.   

"Like most things the government does they aren't telling the public the real reasons behind their actions or the actual goals behind the "War on Drugs.'"

Characterizing the government as a single entity is philosophically flawed.  It is not an autonomous being capable of thought, but rather, the government is amorphous, which lacks a unified driving force.  Thus, your premise is problematic since it is grounded on the intentional act of an individual when in reality it is not.  How could I purport to write an analysis about dog shit, when, in reality, I'm analyzing a butterfly?  I cannot.  Pro tip *** attack the question not the answer *** I'm kind of drunk, but it's difficult to analyze your writing without clarification.  I'll assume, arguendo, that your premise is valid; that is, for the sake of argument.

Claiming the drug trade is large monetarily speaking, and therefore the government "want a piece of this pie" and ergo the "War on Drugs" was born."  Might this simply be mistaken "cum hoc ergo proter hoc"?  Just because something is worth $$, it does not necessarily imply desire.  A correlation does not imply causation, now does it?

"Which is why we see the DEA driving $90,000 sports cars painted with "Just say no to drugs."

Ugh…. Not even going there….

"Another way the government makes money through the "War on Drugs" is through law enforcement."

Query?  If the goal is to make money, why does the government simply just not print it?  Much to my dismay, there are justifiable policy reasons behind the anti-drug movement beyond profit motivation.

Questions you should explore: is drug use a victimless crime, if criminal? [BigFlake?] What impact, if any, should the drug user bear in relation to health-care?  That is, should a non-drug user be forced to subsidize the drug user health care costs? How would the government "legalize" drugs, legislatively or judicially?  Keep in mind, we have 230 years of precedential history to justify coupled with an electorate that is comprised of morons who believe a super-power in the sky controls all against the fairly educated ass-wipes that could careless and those in-between.  The list is very long.

You've got a good start, but a long road ahead.  If this were an undergraduate piece, a B- seems generous. Again, my goal is only to make you look deeper... We're on the same side, but if you want to "win," you must anticipate the real questions.  This essay does not.

Oh yea, Portugal? Is that the model democracy, now?
Title: Re: My view on the war on drugs
Post by: KingJoey on November 23, 2011, 08:51 pm
threatminor - that was a well thought out and intelligent post. Honestly, in the past I wrote a more thought out and comprehensive explanation about my thoughts and conclusions on the drug war. I spent about 10 minutes writing that post and I didn't do much to review it. But I am really glad that my post got so many excellent and valid answers. We really have an intelligent community here and the answers I read here are better than the threads on most other forums.

I really like everyones responses and I honestly believe that I learn the most when people disagree with me and we engage in an intellectual conversation as opposed too an argument. I have alot of respect for threatminor because he was able too get his point across in such a subtle manor that was completely devoid of negativity while jam packed with through provoking statements.