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Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: Limetless on October 19, 2012, 05:12 am

Title: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Limetless on October 19, 2012, 05:12 am
When you talk to people who remember the Kennedy assassination most of the time you hear "I remember where I was when I heard the news" and I noticed that generally people say the same thing about 9/11. I was talking about this in general the other day with someone and their point of view was that "9/11 was this version of JFK assassination" and I couldn't decide if I agreed.

Discuss? 
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Novartis on October 19, 2012, 05:21 am
I remember where I was at when princess diana died... I do happen to remember where I was at during 9/11 but it doesn't compare to me. Those two deaths just don't compare imo

I mean, I never wanted to join the military until then and have never wanted to except for then.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Limetless on October 19, 2012, 05:22 am
I remember where I was at when princess diana died... I do happen to remember where I was at during 9/11 but it doesn't compare to me. Those two deaths just don't compare imo

Yeah I remember both. I don't mean in terms of death but more what it did to public consciousness.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: wackmanblu on October 19, 2012, 11:38 pm
let's see - I remember where I was when:

Elvis OD'd
Lennon was shot
Ronald Regan was was shot
Both space shuttle disasters (Columbia and Challenger)
Iraq Invasion (part 1)
OJ was arrested
OJ was acquitted
Princess Diana bought it
Iraq invasion (part 2)
911

Out of all of them, I remember most vividly Elvis and 911. Don't know why Elvis (I actually don't really like his stuff) other than to think I was so young and how my parents reacted.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Novartis on October 22, 2012, 02:04 am
I remember where I was at when princess diana died... I do happen to remember where I was at during 9/11 but it doesn't compare to me. Those two deaths just don't compare imo

Yeah I remember both. I don't mean in terms of death but more what it did to public consciousness.

Oh, I don't know then... I wasn't around for JFK but I keep hearing "post 911 world" so when you say in terms of how it changed public consciousness, it seems like a greater event to me. But not having been around for JFK.. I just don't know
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: sausage and mash on October 22, 2012, 12:36 pm
I think two thing on this subject,
One if it was a bonified attack masterminded by bin laden and  AL-Qaeda then you have to give them credit for pulling off one hell of an attack, tactically they out smarted the CIA, FBI, NSA and all the other abbreviations, if you remove yourself from the human tragedy element then it was a brilliant move that weakened American economics, faith and it citizens own trust in its country and terrified the entire western world, it may not have been the most subtle but they got there point across.

Two, if the government engendered this attack to create fear, hostility and start a war then this was also another tactically genius move, what could be better than turning a whole continent against a religion, every red blooded American watching each other closely, assessing there potential threat from there neighbor,  they got blank check for funding, arms sales shot up, bills that allowed the government unprecedented access into its citizens lives were rushed through on a tilde wave of security updates that were largely unchecked and so vague they left lots of room for interpretation.
If this is the case, again the goal was complete.

*Disclaimer*
I in no way support the actions of ether the terrorists or the government during this time, its just my two cents, i find all attacks on civilians despicable ether through acts of terrorism or conventional warfare.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Barbijuana on October 22, 2012, 03:20 pm
I'll just leave this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IWJX879fOk

If you've got an hour and a half to kill; this documentary is very well made.

If it gives enough impact towards your point of view of 9/11 then you can further your own personal research with the Architect and Engineers for 9/11 Truth Assoc. at http://www.ae911truth.org/ -- Some of the most radical and crazy "truthers" have doctorate degrees.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: RetinaBlast on October 23, 2012, 05:07 am
9/11 was and is the biggest dupe ever orchestrated. the "official story" is the biggest piece of bullshit too. out of the insane amount of anomalies, inconsistent incidences and massive amounts of dis-information.... fuck. whatever.

has everyone not seen at least one 911 documentary? just watch one. I recommend the truth and lies of 911.

Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Limetless on October 23, 2012, 05:08 am
So you think it's an inside job then Ret?
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: RetinaBlast on October 23, 2012, 05:16 am
So you think it's an inside job then Ret?

Say whuuuut???

nahhhh
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Limetless on October 23, 2012, 05:22 am
So you think it's an inside job then Ret?

Say whuuuut???

nahhhh

Lol then do you care to share?
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: RetinaBlast on October 23, 2012, 05:27 am
hahaha um I meant yes :)
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Limetless on October 23, 2012, 05:29 am
Haha ah ok, bit late here so slow on the uptake. :P
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: dkmonk on October 23, 2012, 08:54 am
I think they are very similar as far as impact goes. They also have huge conspiracy theories behind them with a lot of people believing there to be cover ups and government involvement.

I do think that 9/11 had an impact that is way more widespread and serious than the Kennedy assassination. We are still over in the Middle East from the 9/11 attacks. After the attacks it didn't stop destroying lives, we have thousands of service men and women dead and wounded and even more poor Arab children and families dead and wounded.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on October 23, 2012, 05:16 pm
Lets not forget history here.  Kennedy was just one man.  President sure, but someone wanted him out of the way.  As for 9/11 i cannot stand it when people accuse american agencies being responsible.
I dont mean any offense to americans here today but i honestly believe that the majority of the american public just cannot accept the fact that an attack that damaging and widespread occurred on their soil.
Even if you say to me "yeah but it was an excuse to start a war on terror"
I would say, bullshit and IRA.
If it was a set up or an inside job to give them the directorate to obliterate all terrorism, then why they fuck didnt the american government do something about the IRA or troubles in Norther Ireland in general the very next day.
The simple answers are that the IRA has american sympathisers and people who to this day send them cash and hold fund raising events for them.
Dont want to listen or believe me?  Just ask the average american and they will tell you that somewhere along the line they are of Irish decent, which is probably true.
The point is, the american government simply wouldnt care that much about one group of peoples troubles to plan a massive attack like that on their own country.  And, dare i say this without causing another argument, are too stupid to pull it off anyway.
No instead they just wanted revenge, plain and simple.  Why most of the world cant just accept this is just fucking beyond me.
I hope no americans were insulted during the making of this movie !
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: dkmonk on October 24, 2012, 03:02 am
We aren't going to bomb the hell out of Ireland because the whole European Union would not support it and be outraged starting a war with them.

We did know about September 11 before it happened and even knew that these hijackers were here, but didn't do anything about it. That is a fact that the government admits. The information just didn't ever link together from the CIA to FBI they say. I doubt that.

I do think we let it happen to use as an excuse for more Federal power to be granted and have American support of doing so stripping away our liberties, but doing it in a way where the public wants them stripped away. Getting into a war to dominate the Arab world with our military presence while getting support or at least a nod from our allies too.

This attack wasn't very secret and the CIA and FBI knew that they planned to hijack planes and run them into buildings. Nobody gave a rat's ass though.

Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on October 24, 2012, 05:48 pm
Quote
This attack wasn't very secret and the CIA and FBI knew that they planned to hijack planes and run them into buildings. Nobody gave a rat's ass though.

Plus 1 buddy and thanks for partly agreeing with me.
I guess nothern ireland is a short straw in comparison, its just that at least here in the uk, when bush stated a "complete" war on terror, or at least thats how he made it sound, we thought something in the slightest would be done about the IRA.

But as for linking intel together it seems to be common place.  Remember the buses that got bombed in London?
Same deal, MI6 knew, MI5 had intel on the ground and knew the targets.  The only thing that held them back was that one pair of scissors that could cut through the legal red tape.
All those James Bond movies look like complete bollocks when you see whats under the sugar coated icing.
Oh and for those who do not yet realise, MI5 is for internal british operations, and MI6 is external.
What would be the equivalent in the states??
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: 1100101 on October 26, 2012, 07:48 pm
Oh and for those who do not yet realise, MI5 is for internal british operations, and MI6 is external.
What would be the equivalent in the states??

Well, supposedly FBI is internal and CIA is external.  I'm sure they both cross jurisdiction lines when they aren't supposed to though.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on October 27, 2012, 01:10 pm
Quote
Well, supposedly FBI is internal and CIA is external.  I'm sure they both cross jurisdiction lines when they aren't supposed to though.

Yeah, thats when i like to use the phrase "only in america!".
We are incredibly british about our military and espionage operations.
To get a really good idea, watch the tv series SPOOKS, for an idea of MI5 operations, and then watch a James Bond movie.
The Daniel Craig stories by far are the most realistic situations an agent "might" encounter.
Basically when an agent goes into another countries jurisdiction, he can do whatever he pleases.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Kuulostaa on October 29, 2012, 04:13 am
Perhaps JFK was a stepping stone to see if they (global empire?) were able to get away with 9/11? .. who knows really, so many sides of the story, so much disinformation and misinformation...but

The fact that the buildings were hit 2/3rds of the way up... yet after fire for an hour were able to somehow crush the bottom 2/3rds into dust at almost free fall speed?  Seems too much like a movie to me.. and that's that thing with unrealistic movies.. our perception of physics and the way the world actually works is out of wack...

Building 7 (WTC7) is something else I look at and am like wtf.. No plane hit that building, yet it collapsed into its own footprint from fire on a couple floors..

I have no idea what happened on Sept 11th.. but I do know that the government isn't telling us the truth about what went down.. that in itself creates mystery and rumors... and they most likely know this..
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: You Enjoy Myself on October 29, 2012, 07:52 am
It's definitely possible that the government was involved with or at least allowed the attacks to happen, but the conspiracy goes too far when you start nitpicking about the way in which the towers collapsed. Planes and fires DO cause towers to collapse. There are also some decent documentaries about the reasons that all three towers collapsed but people don't pay as much attention to those. Government didn't plant bombs on the towers to make sure they collapsed. We still could have invaded Iraq from the plane crashes alone without any collapse.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on October 29, 2012, 06:06 pm
I agree totally.
The american government doesnt NEED to be held back by all that red tape bollocks.
Thats why Bush AND Blair went into that country together.  The brits couldnt do it alone because we ARE terribly british about things like that.
But whoever persuaded who, they both went into iraq for the oil.
They just needed a push or an excuse to do it.
I am not saying that 9/11 wasnt an atrocity, of course it was.  But i guarantee you now that there were people in the Bush administration, even Bush himself, who couldnt give a flying fuck about the average human being.
For starters, Bush didnt know what the fuck to do when he got told the news at that elimentry school.
I wonder how much ""persuasion" he needed to go to full scale war.
Sorry if it seems i am rambling, but Bush and Blair were the two biggest mistakes of the western world.
And hey, im a westerner.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: 1100101 on October 29, 2012, 09:12 pm
Quote
Well, supposedly FBI is internal and CIA is external.  I'm sure they both cross jurisdiction lines when they aren't supposed to though.

Yeah, thats when i like to use the phrase "only in america!".
We are incredibly british about our military and espionage operations.
To get a really good idea, watch the tv series SPOOKS, for an idea of MI5 operations, and then watch a James Bond movie.
The Daniel Craig stories by far are the most realistic situations an agent "might" encounter.
Basically when an agent goes into another countries jurisdiction, he can do whatever he pleases.

Yep, only in America indeed I suppose, lol.

Spooks was good (ty Netflix).   

TY for the analogy, now I know!

Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Kuulostaa on October 30, 2012, 02:46 am
It's definitely possible that the government was involved with or at least allowed the attacks to happen, but the conspiracy goes too far when you start nitpicking about the way in which the towers collapsed. Planes and fires DO cause towers to collapse. There are also some decent documentaries about the reasons that all three towers collapsed but people don't pay as much attention to those. Government didn't plant bombs on the towers to make sure they collapsed. We still could have invaded Iraq from the plane crashes alone without any collapse.

Hey, not to be lazy or anything, but could you point me in the right direction for some of these documentaries please?

Would be interesting to see what they have to say.  I've seen write ups on a few buildings that have been on fire completely for hours and hours and hours, yet remain standing and do not collapse into dust...

Seeing the other side of things is always interesting =) Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: You Enjoy Myself on October 30, 2012, 08:05 am
There's a Nova documentary called "Why the towers fell" and that's what it covers. The first one I ever saw was a history channel documentary called "Zero hour" or something, it covers a lot of interviews about 9/11 but is interspersed with segments about what caused the towers to fall. These are both available on youtube and will probably lead to others.
It basically comes down to the extreme damage of the crash, which also destroyed fireproofing, and the extremely hot temperature that jet fuel burns at. It wasn't just a building that caught on fire, it got hit by a fucking jet plane. These points are still arguable, but it makes enough sense to me. Most engineers and architects will tell you that the towers fell on their own without the help of a controlled demolition, and if anyone is the expert on this matter it would be them.
I'm not arguing that the government didn't have anything to do with it, just that they didn't need to go through the risk of detonating the towers as well as crashing planes into them. And if the government was responsible for 9/11 then who cares if there were bombs involved, it's really a moot point in the scheme of things.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: You Enjoy Myself on October 30, 2012, 08:12 am
Oh I forgot about tower 7. I know I've seen or read stuff about it somewhere but can't remember what the fuck happened off the top of my head. I'll have to look into it
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: BenCousins on October 30, 2012, 04:30 pm
The  US goverment couldnt cover up a break into a laundromat how the hell are they going to cover up a huuuuuuge operation like 9/11
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on October 30, 2012, 05:40 pm
Quote
The  US goverment couldnt cover up a break into a laundromat how the hell are they going to cover up a huuuuuuge operation like 9/11

LOL.  Love it.  Although its not the US government in general.  Its just that dick head Bush who was in power at the time.  He was truly the epitome of stupidity.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: GOTMILKTEAM on October 30, 2012, 05:50 pm
When you talk to people who remember the Kennedy assassination most of the time you hear "I remember where I was when I heard the news" and I noticed that generally people say the same thing about 9/11. I was talking about this in general the other day with someone and their point of view was that "9/11 was this version of JFK assassination" and I couldn't decide if I agreed.

Discuss?

Both were backed by the international banking cartel/CIA works for the banks.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: BenCousins on October 30, 2012, 06:07 pm
not a fan of bush but incorrect. He had his IQ tested at 125+ which isnt genius but is fairly intelligent (although i agree the most powerful man in the world should be waaaaaay above average intelligence). The problem bush had was a problem with communicating that made him seem alot less intelligent then he really was. I can sympathize with this seeming ive known many people over the years with this exact same problem. If you spend abit of time and get past their exterior barrier they have up for whatever reason, you will find there alot more thoughtful and calculated then the general loudmouths who tend to take up most of the time society generates to listening.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on October 30, 2012, 06:13 pm
Quote
not a fan of bush but incorrect. He had his IQ tested at 125+ which isnt genius but is fairly intelligent (although i agree the most powerful man in the world should be waaaaaay above average intelligence). The problem bush had was a problem with communicating that made him seem alot less intelligent then he really was. I can sympathize with this seeming ive known many people over the years with this exact same problem. If you spend abit of time and get past their exterior barrier they have up for whatever reason, you will find there alot more thoughtful and calculated then the general loudmouths who tend to take up most of the time society generates to listening.

I didnt know that, but id true then some kudos to bush i guess. But i think it was his general attitude that made us all realise he just didnt give a fuck about people.
Just look up some Michael Moore documentaries.  Remember the famous scene where he was asked about WMDs and the famous quote followed "watch me take this swing" while playing golf.
Actually, i take the kudos back. 
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: BenCousins on October 31, 2012, 06:09 am
Quote
not a fan of bush but incorrect. He had his IQ tested at 125+ which isnt genius but is fairly intelligent (although i agree the most powerful man in the world should be waaaaaay above average intelligence). The problem bush had was a problem with communicating that made him seem alot less intelligent then he really was. I can sympathize with this seeming ive known many people over the years with this exact same problem. If you spend abit of time and get past their exterior barrier they have up for whatever reason, you will find there alot more thoughtful and calculated then the general loudmouths who tend to take up most of the time society generates to listening.

I didnt know that, but id true then some kudos to bush i guess. But i think it was his general attitude that made us all realise he just didnt give a fuck about people.
Just look up some Michael Moore documentaries.  Remember the famous scene where he was asked about WMDs and the famous quote followed "watch me take this swing" while playing golf.
Actually, i take the kudos back.

IMO Michael Moore and George Bush are as bad as each other
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on October 31, 2012, 07:07 pm
Ohh, i wouldnt say that.
Okay they are probably both infactuated with themselves but they are very different characters.
I for one admire Michael Moors work.  Why wouldnt you admire someone for exposing truths??.
As for bush, the only reason he got into power, and i think most people are aware of this now, is that he was in that all famous secret society Skull and Cossbones.  The one where leading NSA, CIA and Homeland security, alongside other governmental staff, have been recruited from.
It is a far cry to say they are as bad as each other.
Looking at this, Bush is by far, much, much worse.
You could say he is a traitor.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: noirbert on November 01, 2012, 05:31 am
If you look and listen to george bush's speeches while he was governor, he was a really good and competent  speaker.


Pre-senial dementia was thought to be the case but honestly what I conclude is he was just playing his cards the way he was told to.  Being dumb on purpose, as to not seem deliberately evil or bad.


 
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Kuulostaa on November 01, 2012, 07:30 am
There is a channel on youtube - AlienScience - that has great 9/11 films/documentaries..


But again.. how does a building that is weakened 2/3rds of the way up gain potential energy to crush the lower 2/3rds into dust....

Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: BenCousins on November 01, 2012, 08:05 am
Ohh, i wouldnt say that.
Okay they are probably both infactuated with themselves but they are very different characters.
I for one admire Michael Moors work.  Why wouldnt you admire someone for exposing truths??.
As for bush, the only reason he got into power, and i think most people are aware of this now, is that he was in that all famous secret society Skull and Cossbones.  The one where leading NSA, CIA and Homeland security, alongside other governmental staff, have been recruited from.
It is a far cry to say they are as bad as each other.
Looking at this, Bush is by far, much, much worse.
You could say he is a traitor.

Michael Moore is just..... I Cbf even going into what a tool he is.

Theres plenty of plausible reasons how everything on 9/11 happened and zero plausible ways they could cover it up. The same people who think 9/11 is a giant organized conspiracy are the same people who think the  aithorities are diverting all there resources from a flailing economy and failed war in Afghanistan to stopping the 0.00000001% of total global drug trade that goes through here
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Sixteenpointfive on November 06, 2012, 04:45 am
Such foolishness.  Won't even waste my fingers typing about 9/11.

As for Kennedy, go look at every American president that has been assassinated and you will find they all share the same common thing. Here's a tip, Central Bank.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Hungry ghost on November 08, 2012, 01:44 pm
To those who think 9/11 was an inside job: Why did they have to take down both towers? Would one not have served as sufficient justification for the "War on Terror"?  I mean the cover up was going to be big enough already wasnt it?
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: BenCousins on November 09, 2012, 01:04 am
To those who think 9/11 was an inside job: Why did they have to take down both towers? Would one not have served as sufficient justification for the "War on Terror"?  I mean the cover up was going to be big enough already wasnt it?

It would be Impossible to cover up something that big. Paranoid drug users.............
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Adasel on November 09, 2012, 02:55 pm
Quote
To those who think 9/11 was an inside job: Why did they have to take down both towers? Would one not have served as sufficient justification for the "War on Terror"?  I mean the cover up was going to be big enough already wasnt it?

I completely agree.  The reason the american public, or at least the majority, feel it is a cover-up, is quite simply due to the fact that, it is unthinkable that such a catastrophe could take place within the greatest nation on earth.
I wonder if anyone had similar concerns when the bus bombings occurred in london, or did anyone even notice?.
Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: Barbijuana on November 09, 2012, 03:12 pm
To those who think 9/11 was an inside job: Why did they have to take down both towers? Would one not have served as sufficient justification for the "War on Terror"?  I mean the cover up was going to be big enough already wasnt it?

WTC Building 7 fell from what looked like a controlled demolition on the same day as the planes hitting WTC1 and 2. That's enough for me to think it was an inside job. Google: Engineers and Architects for 9/11 Truth and they go into great detail discussing the structural and engineering aspects of WTC7 -- and these are not paranoid drug users.

WTC7 held all the documentation of the CIA, FBI and paper trails for every transaction on the U.S. Stock Exchange for that day. It was blocks away from the Twin Towers and collapsed to the ground in 7 seconds with all other buildings around it seemingly untouched and structurally intact.

Title: Re: 9/11/JFK
Post by: BenCousins on November 09, 2012, 03:39 pm
To those who think 9/11 was an inside job: Why did they have to take down both towers? Would one not have served as sufficient justification for the "War on Terror"?  I mean the cover up was going to be big enough already wasnt it?

WTC Building 7 fell from what looked like a controlled demolition on the same day as the planes hitting WTC1 and 2. That's enough for me to think it was an inside job. Google: Engineers and Architects for 9/11 Truth and they go into great detail discussing the structural and engineering aspects of WTC7 -- and these are not paranoid drug users.

WTC7 held all the documentation of the CIA, FBI and paper trails for every transaction on the U.S. Stock Exchange for that day. It was blocks away from the Twin Towers and collapsed to the ground in 7 seconds with all other buildings around it seemingly untouched and structurally intact.

but thats one side of the story, there are plentyof Engineers and architects who will argue to the contray, everyday people, they cant possibly be in on the conspiracy aswell could they?

Interesting Fact: There was actually a bunch of apartment bombings in Russia in the late 90s which was discovered to be a "white flag operation" orchestrated by the government to draw support for the war in Chechnya