Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: foresworne999 on April 26, 2013, 01:31 am
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You can't trip two or three days in a row on the same substance because your body develops a tolerance which lasts for weeks. I'm interested to know if certain psychedelics have their own separate tolerances. If this were the case, you might be able to take LSD one day, then mushrooms the next, without having weaker effects. If you had 7 distinct substances each with their own tolerances, you could effectively trip for a week straight. However, I doubt this is the case, as there must be SOME overlap.
So does anybody know if a tolerance for one psychedelic means tolerance for all psychedelics, or if each substance is distinct and does not interfere with trips using different substances? I'm not sure we know enough about our brains to answer definitively, but I'd like to hear if you guys have had any experiences that might shed light on the topic.
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Different substances have different tolerances and there is not a cross tolerance for all hallucinogens. I have tripped two days in a row. I have tripped two days apart. I have also snorted 40mg 2c-e without getting any visuals right after tripping on 60mg for two days in a row.
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Mushrooms, LSD, and mescaline are cross-tolerant.
You can certainly trip several days in a row, you have have to double the dosage each day. E.g., 200ug of LSD one day, 400 the next day, 800 the next, and so on.
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Mushrooms, LSD, and mescaline are cross-tolerant.
You can certainly trip several days in a row, you have have to double the dosage each day. E.g., 200ug of LSD one day, 400 the next day, 800 the next, and so on.
I was speaking under the assumption that you would not increase dosage (The necessity of increased dosage indicates tolerance). Do you know if there are specific properties of the chemicals that determine cross-tolerance? If so, is there a place where I can see what drugs are cross-tolerant with each other (ex: DMT, Salvia, NBOMe)?
BTW: I assume "cross-tolerant" means they share tolerance?
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[quotforesworne999] Do you know if there are specific properties of the chemicals that determine cross-tolerance? [/quote]
[/quote]Psilocybin and LSD are cross-tolerant because they are structurally similar and have similar modes of action (partial 5-HT2A receptor agonism).
Cross tolerance between LSD and psilocybin
Harris Isbell, A. B. Wolbach, A. Wikler and E. J. Miner
Abstract
In two experiments, using a cross-over design, the development of directrd tolerance to LSD and psilocybin was measured after 10 (Experiment I) or 9 (Experiment II) volunteers had taken LSD in doses increasing to 1.5 meg/kg over the course of 6–7 days (Experiment I) or 13 days (Experiment II). On another occasion, the same patients received psilocybin in doses increasing to 150 mcg/kg over the course of 6–7 days (Experiment I) or 210 mcg/kg over the course of 13 days (Experiment II).
The development of cross tolerance to psilocybin in patients directly tolerant to LSD was measured by challenging the patients, after they had received LSD chronically, with 150 mcg/kg (Experiment I) or 210 mcg/kg (Experiment II) of psilocybin. Cross tolerance to LSD was evaluated by challenging the patients, after they had received psilocybin chronically, with 1.5 meg/kg of LSD.
A high degree of direct tolerance to LSD developed in both experiments, as manifested by statistically significant reductions in six of the seven parameters of response. Patients directly tolerant to LSD were also cross tolerant to psilocybin on five (Experiment I) or four (Experiment II) parameters.
Definite direct tolerance also developed after chronic administration of psilocybin in both experiments, but statistically significant reductions occurred in fewer parameters of response (four in Experiment I and three in Experiment II) than was the case with LSD. Patients chronically treated with psilocybin were also cross tolerant to LSD on four (Experiment I) or three (Experiment II) measurements. The degree of direct tolerance to psilocybin was less than the degree of direct tolerance to LSD.
The development of cross tolerance between LSD and psilocybin reinforces the idea that these two drugs cause psychic disturbances by acting on some common mechanism, or on mechanisms acting through a common final pathway.
[quotforesworne999]If so, is there a place where I can see what drugs are cross-tolerant with each other (ex: DMT, Salvia, NBOMe)?[/quote]
I haven't been able to find one.
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Interesting. I'll investigate that study you cited and see if that tolerance is based on the chemicals or the receptors they target. Thanks for the info.
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Interesting. I'll investigate that study you cited and see if that tolerance is based on the chemicals or the receptors they target. Thanks for the info.
I've looked into this but I have yet to experiment. My understanding is that tolerance is directly related to the targeted receptors: since mushrooms, LSD, and mescaline each target 5-HT receptors, expect cross-tolerance.
Ketamine is a hallucinogen that targets NMDA receptors so there should be no cross-tolerance between ketamine and LSD, for example. Ambien is another unusual hallucinogen which targets GABA receptors.
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I tolerate psychedelics fairly well, thank you
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Forgive me for not looking this up but I'm sure someone can answer, all of these psychedelics also drain your serotonin reserves, yes? Or is this a misconception? I know that taking too much MDMA too closely together had a terrible effect on me. Underwhelming roll and had pretty fucked up short term memory for a... while... what were we talking about?
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psychedelics do not drain serotonin. Other drugs do, but psychedelics is structurally similar to serotonin
Many drugs, like methamphetamine, cocaine, heroin will drain your pineal gland of serotonin (this is an actual forced release of serotonin). Psilocybin does not do this and instead temporarily replaces the receptors with it's own serotonin like chemical, psilocybin, so that you're not actually draining your own brain of serotonin, because after a mushroom trip, your serotonin is still there
the pineal gland is also known as the third eye
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland
the replacement of serotonin with psilocybin during a trip affects the 5-HT receptors. This is been researched many times, but never fully explained on how psilocybin actually does this, so it remains a bit of a mystery. This is very different from many other drugs like meth, coke and pills which simply force release of serotonin, and this is why so many other chemicals have this long term side effects and hangovers, while mushrooms do not. True psychedelics, DMT, LSD and psilocybin are structurally related to chemicals that are already in your own brain. This is why psychedelics do very little physical harm over a long period of time and is also why you'll find older people doing shrooms as well as younger people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin
Psilocybin is a tryptamine compound with a chemical structure containing an indole ring linked to an ethylamine substituent. It is chemically related to the amino acid tryptophan, and is structurally similar to the neurotransmitter serotonin. Psilocybin is a member of the general class of tryptophan-based compounds that originally functioned as antioxidants in earlier life forms before assuming more complex functions in multicellular organisms, including humans.[51] Other related indole-containing psychedelic compounds include dimethyltryptamine, found in many plant species and in trace amounts in some mammals, and bufotenine, found in the skin of psychoactive toads.[52] Biosynthetically, the biochemical transformation from tryptophan to psilocybin involves several enzyme reactions: decarboxylation, methylation at the N9 position, 4-hydroxylation, and O-phosphorylation. Isotopic labeling experiments suggest that tryptophan decarboxylation is the initial biosynthetic step and that O-phosphorylation is the final step.[53][54] The precise sequence of the intermediate enzymatic steps is not known with certainty, and the biosynthetic pathway may differ between species.[55]
Forgive me for not looking this up but I'm sure someone can answer, all of these psychedelics also drain your serotonin reserves, yes? Or is this a misconception? I know that taking too much MDMA too closely together had a terrible effect on me. Underwhelming roll and had pretty fucked up short term memory for a... while... what were we talking about?
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the replacement of serotonin with psilocybin during a trip affects the 5-HT receptors. This is been researched many times, but never fully explained on how psilocybin actually does this, so it remains a bit of a mystery. This is very different from many other drugs like meth, coke and pills which simply force release of serotonin, and this is why so many other chemicals have this long term side effects and hangovers, while mushrooms do not. True psychedelics, DMT, LSD and psilocybin are structurally related to chemicals that are already in your own brain. This is why psychedelics do very little physical harm over a long period of time and is also why you'll find older people doing shrooms as well as younger people
Very cool. Thank you for the layman's terms.
I suddenly have an interest in psychology and neuroscience that will be explored while on a dosage of said chemicals.
Introspectively.
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I recently bought my first few hits of acid - 150ug blotter. The first hit was great and took me back to my youth. I had remembered the tolerance issue and waited 3 days before I took my second hit, but the trip was nowhere near as strong as the first.
I realize it depends on the individual and the quality of the acid, but generally, how many days should one wait before using again to ensure a good experience? I don't want to have to double up on dosage.
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I didn't realize this until using some of them a few times and not getting the same effect from the amount used before
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I can't trip three days in a row on 2C-B, alas, such a wonderful drug!
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In my personal experience, taking mushrooms two days in a row severely reduces the intensity of the second trip, and what is worse, it is more likely to result in a an uncomfortable or even bad trip.
Personally, I find that I can take one day LSD and the next day mushrooms without little decrease in effects. But I haven't tried them 3 days in a row (yet).
I would recommend to take it easy, since one also needs to integrate what psychedelics teach us!
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I recently bought my first few hits of acid - 150ug blotter. The first hit was great and took me back to my youth. I had remembered the tolerance issue and waited 3 days before I took my second hit, but the trip was nowhere near as strong as the first.
I realize it depends on the individual and the quality of the acid, but generally, how many days should one wait before using again to ensure a good experience? I don't want to have to double up on dosage.
2-3 weeks is the most common answer. I really wish there were some tolerance graphs about this, though. Does anyone know if 2cb or NBOMe variations are also cross-tolerant with each other or with LSD/psilocybin?
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What about reverse tolerance? I've heard of a few drugs that work this way.
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This is a very informative thread, thanks for the info guys.
Psychedelics never had a psychedelic effect.... I never saw hallucinations, tracers, fractals, or any of the other effects people claim to have. At the most they make me a little more happier and social, at the worst they give me muscle aches.... all in all I always find myself disappointed I don't react the same way the people around me react to them.
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This is a very informative thread, thanks for the info guys.
Psychedelics never had a psychedelic.... I never saw hallucinations, tracers, fractals, or any of the other effects people claim to have. At the most they make me a little more happier and social, at the worst they give me muscle aches.... all in all I always find myself disappointed I don't react the same way the people around me react to them.
That sucks. I've tripped so hard that everything I thought of I actually saw it in front of me and I forgot I was on drugs.
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I've literally done 2 hits of Acid, an 8th of shrooms, 10 shots of Jager, and smoked ton of weed in the course of 2-3 hours and never lost touched with reality.
Clearly I'm not wired the same way as everybody else.
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You can't trip two or three days in a row on the same substance because your body develops a tolerance which lasts for weeks. I'm interested to know if certain psychedelics have their own separate tolerances. If this were the case, you might be able to take LSD one day, then mushrooms the next, without having weaker effects. If you had 7 distinct substances each with their own tolerances, you could effectively trip for a week straight. However, I doubt this is the case, as there must be SOME overlap.
So does anybody know if a tolerance for one psychedelic means tolerance for all psychedelics, or if each substance is distinct and does not interfere with trips using different substances? I'm not sure we know enough about our brains to answer definitively, but I'd like to hear if you guys have had any experiences that might shed light on the topic.
For me if i do mushrooms they work on a first day wonderful, next day even if do twice then first they don't do much to me, but if i skip one day ill come back to first.
LSD newer done 2+ days in a row cos for me it is a heavy trip with lot of lough that enough for months/years to remember how good it was.
MXE can do day by day every day the same nice buzz. longest 15days. I miss that stuff and cant find good vendor for long time :(
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This is a very informative thread, thanks for the info guys.
Psychedelics never had a psychedelic effect.... I never saw hallucinations, tracers, fractals, or any of the other effects people claim to have. At the most they make me a little more happier and social, at the worst they give me muscle aches.... all in all I always find myself disappointed I don't react the same way the people around me react to them.
They do try shrooms they show u fab world with two sides dark and bright depends where shrooms drop u off..
Ones i been in a local bus full of gremlins :)
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You can't trip two or three days in a row on the same substance because your body develops a tolerance which lasts for weeks. I'm interested to know if certain psychedelics have their own separate tolerances. If this were the case, you might be able to take LSD one day, then mushrooms the next, without having weaker effects. If you had 7 distinct substances each with their own tolerances, you could effectively trip for a week straight. However, I doubt this is the case, as there must be SOME overlap.
So does anybody know if a tolerance for one psychedelic means tolerance for all psychedelics, or if each substance is distinct and does not interfere with trips using different substances? I'm not sure we know enough about our brains to answer definitively, but I'd like to hear if you guys have had any experiences that might shed light on the topic.
In my experience, no. I do, however, seem to have to wait a lot longer than other people to get the effects back. As a general rule I never do a psychedelic more than once every two weeks. It'd probably work every week, but what's the fucking point if' it's gonna be weak sauce.
Generally, even if I do 2c-b, I gotta wait. Can't get up the next morning and do shrooms, turns out that's just a massive waste of a rather large dose of shrooms. I always laugh when people tell me "my best friend did LSD every day for years and now he's really screwed up." You can't do psychs very close together.
However, I do SEEM to be able to do dissociatives after a psych trip, but I can't remember any specific instances where I could confirm this well enough to assert that without a massive grain of salt.
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Generally, even if I do 2c-b, I gotta wait. Can't get up the next morning and do shrooms, turns out that's just a massive waste of a rather large dose of shrooms. I always laugh when people tell me "my best friend did LSD every day for years and now he's really screwed up." You can't do psychs very close together.
However, I do SEEM to be able to do dissociatives after a psych trip, but I can't remember any specific instances where I could confirm this well enough to assert that without a massive grain of salt.
Is it possible to develop a tolerance for dissociatives? Also, does anyone have any more information on the cross tolerance of more substances? So far we presumably have LSD/shrooms/2cb, but I can't find much else online. I took NBOMe on Wednesday and would like to know if I can trip again Saturday/Sunday with a combination of shrooms or NBOMe without being overly wasteful. I'm also cautious to not OD on NBOMe. Thanks again for the all the great advice. Learning a lot.
EDIT: I've found sites that say NBOMe has a very long tolerance duration. :/
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Generally, even if I do 2c-b, I gotta wait. Can't get up the next morning and do shrooms, turns out that's just a massive waste of a rather large dose of shrooms. I always laugh when people tell me "my best friend did LSD every day for years and now he's really screwed up." You can't do psychs very close together.
However, I do SEEM to be able to do dissociatives after a psych trip, but I can't remember any specific instances where I could confirm this well enough to assert that without a massive grain of salt.
Is it possible to develop a tolerance for dissociatives? Also, does anyone have any more information on the cross tolerance of more substances? So far we presumably have LSD/shrooms/2cb, but I can't find much else online. I took NBOMe on Wednesday and would like to know if I can trip again Saturday/Sunday with a combination of shrooms or NBOMe without being overly wasteful. I'm also cautious to not OD on NBOMe. Thanks again for the all the great advice. Learning a lot.
EDIT: I've found sites that say NBOMe has a very long tolerance duration. :/
Well. I mean you can definitely get tolerance for dissociatives. MXE develops notoriously quick. I was (irresponsibly) doing MXE two to three times a week. Then I stopped for about a week and did 800 mg of Ketamine. Did almost nothing. And yeah, just doing the MXE and some RCs, dissociatives develop tolerance QUICK. Now, the cross-tolerance with dissociatives and more classical hallucinogens and entactogens, I don't know much about. I just don't have the kind of experience to say anything about it. As dissociatives are (unusual) depressants, I'd be kind of interested in how using K would affect the use of oxycontin.
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You can't trip two or three days in a row on the same substance because your body develops a tolerance which lasts for weeks. I'm interested to know if certain psychedelics have their own separate tolerances. If this were the case, you might be able to take LSD one day, then mushrooms the next, without having weaker effects. If you had 7 distinct substances each with their own tolerances, you could effectively trip for a week straight. However, I doubt this is the case, as there must be SOME overlap.
So does anybody know if a tolerance for one psychedelic means tolerance for all psychedelics, or if each substance is distinct and does not interfere with trips using different substances? I'm not sure we know enough about our brains to answer definitively, but I'd like to hear if you guys have had any experiences that might shed light on the topic.
Um... ever hear of "washing a bottle"? Where you fill up your "empty" LSD vial with Everclear and take a shot... I've tripped for 4 days straight after washing a bottle. While I don't recommend it, it was the other side of spirituality: when you just want to go back to normal after 24 hours of colors attacking you--with your eyes open or tightly closed.... : )
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You can't trip two or three days in a row on the same substance because your body develops a tolerance which lasts for weeks. I'm interested to know if certain psychedelics have their own separate tolerances. If this were the case, you might be able to take LSD one day, then mushrooms the next, without having weaker effects. If you had 7 distinct substances each with their own tolerances, you could effectively trip for a week straight. However, I doubt this is the case, as there must be SOME overlap.
So does anybody know if a tolerance for one psychedelic means tolerance for all psychedelics, or if each substance is distinct and does not interfere with trips using different substances? I'm not sure we know enough about our brains to answer definitively, but I'd like to hear if you guys have had any experiences that might shed light on the topic.
Um... ever hear of "washing a bottle"? Where you fill up your "empty" LSD vial with Everclear and take a shot... I've tripped for 4 days straight after washing a bottle. While I don't recommend it, it was the other side of spirituality: when you just want to go back to normal after 24 hours of colors attacking you--with your eyes open or tightly closed.... : )
A ridiculous dose is obviously going to help you trip longer. I'm focusing on standard doses spread over multiple days, and in particular, without wasting drugz.
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Six or more days in between sessions completely destroys tolerance. It's been scientifically tested many times back in the 50s and 60s. And yes cross tolerance is an issue. But why on earth would anyone want to trip to days in a row? Isn't the whole point to take some time and reflect ?
It's not fucking coke or meth....We are talking about flesh of the gods here.
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Six or more days in between sessions completely destroys tolerance. It's been scientifically tested many times back in the 50s and 60s. And yes cross tolerance is an issue. But why on earth would anyone want to trip to days in a row? Isn't the whole point to take some time and reflect ?
It's not fucking coke or meth....We are talking about flesh of the gods here.
Flesh of the Gods.... I disagree... were are expressing the gods of the flesh--our own minds.... There is nothing "godly" going on... but an entirely Human phenomenon. If you want a more creative response, then the bombardment of serotonin, and other neurotransmitters, is another face of our material Universe... where material meets immaterial...
I'm not one for claiming about gods and heaven and hell. There is very little to gain, I think, to appeal to forces beyond our own minds. After all, every idea that has ever existed has come from another human. Don't confuse this great truth.
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Flesh of the Gods.... I disagree... were are expressing the gods of the flesh--our own minds.... There is nothing "godly" going on... but an entirely Human phenomenon. If you want a more creative response, then the bombardment of serotonin, and other neurotransmitters, is another face of our material Universe... where material meets immaterial...
I'm not one for claiming about gods and heaven and hell. There is very little to gain, I think, to appeal to forces beyond our own minds. After all, every idea that has ever existed has come from another human. Don't confuse this great truth.
[/quote]
I'm in full alignment with your thoughts here and I am not confusing any "great truth", it is just a figure of speech. Apparently that is the term that the Aztecs used when referring to THE mushrooms.
Peace,
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Twice now I have found LSD to be very ineffective for a few days after smoking DMT. I feel high but get no visuals.
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Flesh of the Gods.... I disagree... were are expressing the gods of the flesh--our own minds.... There is nothing "godly" going on... but an entirely Human phenomenon. If you want a more creative response, then the bombardment of serotonin, and other neurotransmitters, is another face of our material Universe... where material meets immaterial...
I'm not one for claiming about gods and heaven and hell. There is very little to gain, I think, to appeal to forces beyond our own minds. After all, every idea that has ever existed has come from another human. Don't confuse this great truth.
I'm in full alignment with your thoughts here and I am not confusing any "great truth", it is just a figure of speech. Apparently that is the term that the Aztecs used when referring to THE mushrooms.
Peace,
OK... I'm smart, but I'm ignorant. Aztecs. Got it...
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Six or more days in between sessions completely destroys tolerance. It's been scientifically tested many times back in the 50s and 60s. And yes cross tolerance is an issue. But why on earth would anyone want to trip to days in a row? Isn't the whole point to take some time and reflect ?
It's not fucking coke or meth....We are talking about flesh of the gods here.
Flesh of the Gods.... I disagree... were are expressing the gods of the flesh--our own minds.... There is nothing "godly" going on... but an entirely Human phenomenon. If you want a more creative response, then the bombardment of serotonin, and other neurotransmitters, is another face of our material Universe... where material meets immaterial...
I'm not one for claiming about gods and heaven and hell. There is very little to gain, I think, to appeal to forces beyond our own minds.
This is an incredibly closed minded way of thinking. To say that "There is very little to gain ... appeal(ing) to forces beyond our own minds" is basically saying that you do not believe in your own potential to advance further into what you do not know / understand, and come to know and understand it. Is it not true, things that were once "beyond our own minds" are now a part of them? And we are only just getting started. Figuring out that the earth was round created a massive shift in collective consciousness, so just imagine what would happen if we unlocked the secrets of death and the afterlife.
After all, every idea that has ever existed has come from another human. Don't confuse this great truth.
Sounds like somebody needs to up the dose and experience a true ego death.
Based on that sentence, you obviously haven't gotten there yet.
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Six or more days in between sessions completely destroys tolerance. It's been scientifically tested many times back in the 50s and 60s. And yes cross tolerance is an issue. But why on earth would anyone want to trip to days in a row? Isn't the whole point to take some time and reflect ?
It's not fucking coke or meth....We are talking about flesh of the gods here.
Flesh of the Gods.... I disagree... were are expressing the gods of the flesh--our own minds.... There is nothing "godly" going on... but an entirely Human phenomenon. If you want a more creative response, then the bombardment of serotonin, and other neurotransmitters, is another face of our material Universe... where material meets immaterial...
I'm not one for claiming about gods and heaven and hell. There is very little to gain, I think, to appeal to forces beyond our own minds.
This is an incredibly closed minded way of thinking. To say that "There is very little to gain ... appeal(ing) to forces beyond our own minds" is basically saying that you do not believe in your own potential to advance further into what you do not know / understand, and come to know and understand it. Is it not true, things that were once "beyond our own minds" are now a part of them? And we are only just getting started. Figuring out that the earth was round created a massive shift in collective consciousness, so just imagine what would happen if we unlocked the secrets of death and the afterlife.
After all, every idea that has ever existed has come from another human. Don't confuse this great truth.
Sounds like somebody needs to up the dose and experience a true ego death.
Based on that sentence, you obviously haven't gotten there yet.
Every force that exists... they are all present within the network that is a human brain. Everything that exists, also exists in our grey matter.
Physical
Chemical
Nuclear
strong, weak forces...
It's all in there...
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How do you think we are able to come by this knowledge of the Universe--and what has existed before we come into being?
Life is a fuck.
We come from orgasms and star dust.
With a little luck,
We'll evolve past this rock without a bust.
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OP here. This is pretty old, but I wanted to mention that I took 2.2mg 25i-NBOMe and 0.5g of mushrooms on Saturday (after having also indulged on Wednesday). I had an awesome trip, much better than weds. Open eye fractals, strong CEVs, and things got really animated and rainbow-colored. Also had some great short moments of spacing out and contemplating existence, disconnecting with reality etc. Violently threw my guts up an hour or so in, but after the nausea passed, everything was great (God I hate that metal taste :-\). Loved the experience, though. I plan on experimenting with more psychedelics to see if I can get different insight and also eliminate the nausea. Thanks again everyone.
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I recently bought my first few hits of acid - 150ug blotter. The first hit was great and took me back to my youth. I had remembered the tolerance issue and waited 3 days before I took my second hit, but the trip was nowhere near as strong as the first.
I realize it depends on the individual and the quality of the acid, but generally, how many days should one wait before using again to ensure a good experience? I don't want to have to double up on dosage.
2-3 weeks is the most common answer. I really wish there were some tolerance graphs about this, though. Does anyone know if 2cb or NBOMe variations are also cross-tolerant with each other or with LSD/psilocybin?
Thanks for your reply. I used my last hit last night which was 4 days from the second hit and it was a bit better but nowhere near the first. Once this SR issue is resolved, I'll stock up again, and by then, I should be tolerance absent. :)