Silk Road forums

Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: blacksmith101 on September 27, 2013, 08:05 pm

Title: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: blacksmith101 on September 27, 2013, 08:05 pm
So if I buy bitcoins that can be traced to me and send them to silk road will LE know that I'm buying drugs? Anyone been busted this way or is it not worth worrying about?
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: IForgotMyFuckingPassword on September 27, 2013, 08:22 pm
I think you're OK if you use a new SR btc address EVERY SINGLE time that you make a transfer. Just make sure that your transfer goes through before you change your address, otherwise you'll lose the coin.

As for them being able to determine that it's a SR btc address, no they don't. But depending on how you've purchased the coins, the can trace them to you. They won't know that the btc address belongs to you though.

Let's say, for example though, you buy coins on an exchange (DON'T!) and then transfer them straight to your SR account. After that, you make a purchase from a vendor who appears legitimate, but who actually is LE posing as a vendor. Now they've got your real name and address (if you used your real addy); they can identify where the coins came from by following the blockchain back to Gox (just using them as an example). They can subpeona Mt Gox and get your clearnet IP. That will of course match your real home address. Now try denying you made the purchase when they make a controlled delivery and arrest you. Good luck with that.

Stay away from the exchanges. I haven't found a completely anonymous way to purchase coin. There are cameras everywhere, so if you're depositing cash, you're on cam. It's really not likely they're going to be checking cams unless you're already under surveillance. Just try to stay low profile and you'll be fine. I've been buying safely for over 2 years (and I started using Dwolla and Gox --  how stupid that was and how lucky am I?).
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: Yoda on September 27, 2013, 08:38 pm
Launder the coins through bitcoinfog.
fogcore5n3ov3tui.onion

Read this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/09/05/follow-the-bitcoins-how-we-got-busted-buying-drugs-on-silk-roads-black-market/
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: AdventureTimeSupply on September 27, 2013, 08:49 pm
Let's say, for example though, you buy coins on an exchange (DON'T!) and then transfer them straight to your SR account. After that, you make a purchase from a vendor who appears legitimate, but who actually is LE posing as a vendor. Now they've got your real name and address (if you used your real addy); they can identify where the coins came from by following the blockchain back to Gox (just using them as an example). They can subpeona Mt Gox and get your clearnet IP. That will of course match your real home address. Now try denying you made the purchase when they make a controlled delivery and arrest you. Good luck with that.

You skipped the part explaining how LE got your bitcoin address. That's not possible using your example.
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: IForgotMyFuckingPassword on September 27, 2013, 09:09 pm
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You skipped the part explaining how LE got your bitcoin address. That's not possible using your example.

That's because I'm not sure how the vendor side works, but I assume they would just use their own address and follow it back through the blockchain. That part I'm not sure about, but it doesn't matter anyway. They trace the coins back to the exchange. The exchange coughs up you REAL IP address. That's really all they need.

They don't need to prove the btc address belongs to you. If you sent them your real name and address and bought a similar amount of coins from an account that is linked to your physical address (that matches the one you sent to them), that's enough. That's beyond a reasonable doubt to the average person (which is what the jury would be made up of). They're not going to buy that it's a coincidence or conspiracy.

Something like that is only going to happening on very large purchases. They need to have enough evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, but they don't have to prove you're involved in every single step of the transaction to prosecute you.
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: AdventureTimeSupply on September 27, 2013, 09:25 pm
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You skipped the part explaining how LE got your bitcoin address. That's not possible using your example.

That's because I'm not sure how the vendor side works, but I assume they would just use their own address and follow it back through the blockchain.

All coins are tubled on Silk Road, so there's no possible way to tie a buyer and sellers bitcoin addresse together.

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They trace the coins back to the exchange. The exchange coughs up you REAL IP address. That's really all they need.

That's not possible because of Silk Road's tumbling.

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They don't need to prove the btc address belongs to you. If you sent them your real name and address and bought a similar amount of coins from an account that is linked to your physical address

This is outside the realm of this discussion. If LE sent you drugs you'd be busted and no further evidence would be needed. In order for them to trace your bitcoins they would have to start at the point where you initially purchased the bitcoins. And even if they did that, which would be ridiculous, there would be no connection between a Silk Road purchase and a bitcoin purchase. Anyway all you would have to do is send the coins from an exchange to a new personal wallet before sending them to Silk Road and there wouldn't be any way to prove that the coins from the wallet address to Silk Road had anything to do with you.
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: IForgotMyFuckingPassword on September 27, 2013, 09:36 pm
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That's not possible because of Silk Road's tumbling.
I don't believe anything is impossible. It might be highly unlikely, but I doubt it's impossible. Besides, there really are easier ways to catch people then tracing coins through the blockchain, so I doubt that would be their first choice.

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This is outside the realm of this discussion. If LE sent you drugs you'd be busted and no further evidence would be needed. In order for them to trace your bitcoins they would have to start at the point where you initially purchased the bitcoins.
Well, I agree with your first sentence. The reason I brought that up is because there seems to be a misconception perpetuated on these forums that you have plausible deniability if arrested on a controlled delivery, and that's just flat out untrue. It's better not to answer the door when your expecting a package.

And yes, that's off topic, but that's why I mentioned it

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And even if they did that, which would be ridiculous, there would be no connection between a Silk Road purchase and a bitcoin purchase.
If you purchase $1000 coins and buy $975 worth of drugs, that's close enough. Nobody's going to buy that's a coincidence. People tend to buy exactly what they need for their purchase on the exchanges because the exchange rates are so volatile.
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: blacksmith101 on September 27, 2013, 10:20 pm
Thanks guys that's all useful info. That Forbes link answers my question I think.

If I understand it right LE could build a (large) list of silk road deposit addresses and follow back the coins through the block chain to exchanges that require ID or at the very least places that don't allow Tor. Then they've got your info and could target your mail. So basically you can never use these places safely. Given that 90 % of people don't even use pgp, would it be fair to say that LE could have a far more detailed picture of what's going on than most people think? This worries me.
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: IForgotMyFuckingPassword on September 27, 2013, 11:03 pm
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That Forbes link answers my question I think. If I understand it right LE could build a (large) list of silk road deposit addresses

Yeah I just read that article too. Oddly enough, I cited it on another answer for a different topic, so I didn't read that far down.

I'm  surprised that they're claiming they've identified 300+k that belong to the "drug market." With that said, they're not saying they've identified them as SR; there are other markets.
Title: Re: silk road bitcoin address identifiable?
Post by: cryngie on September 27, 2013, 11:14 pm
You should tumble the coins before sending them to SR so that coins sent to TOR dont match the ones bought by you. Some btc exchanges will take your coins if the wallet is on the deepweb so tumbling then into a wallet then to SR is the best. A guy had his coins taken off him for sending them to and from SR but he didnt tumble so.........