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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: DMtryptamine285 on July 16, 2013, 12:44 am

Title: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on July 16, 2013, 12:44 am
Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose (Dealing with “the fear”)

“The fear” is a term commonly used to refer to the anxiogenic (anxiety producing) effects of a synthetic cannabinoid overdose. Just as when one drinks too much alcohol and gets “the spins”, overconsumption of synthetic cannabinoids results in a very unpleasant and often downright terrifying experience in which the user often thinks that they are dying, or have suffered some permanent damage. If you ever experience a synthetic cannabinoid overdose it is important to remember that this fear is not based in reality, and is in fact you are merely experiencing a very severe panic attack. As long as you do not have any underlying cardiovascular condition it is extremely unlikely that you will experience any permanent damage from the overdose and you it is transient (it will pass). Just like a bad trip caused by psychedelic substances, you will eventually come down. Most synthetic cannabinoids currently on the market are very short acting which means that the effects will not last long.

Sometimes a person experiencing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose will have delirium like hallucinations, and loose contact with reality. It is important to remember that what you are experiencing is merely a sensation and is not real. Back when I was smoking synthetic cannabinoids I had hundreds of these mild overdoses, the sensations experienced can be very frightening and can surpass anything one can experience from traditional psychedelic and dissociative drugs. I have had times where I was sure I was trapped in hell and reliving every terrible thing I have ever done in graphic detail only to get the end of it and the loop to restart. The dissociation experienced from some of these chemicals can be extremely severe, surpassing the dissociation of drugs like ketamine and phencyclidine. 5-fur-144 is an example of one of the extremely dissociative cannabinoids and I suspect it has some action on N-methyl-D-aspartate similar to classical dissociative drugs in addition to cannabimimetic effects.

I recall one specific incident on 5-fur-144 (xlr-11) in which I saw myself separate from my body and was launched into space at lightning speed. This was not like classical psychedelics or dissociative however and the experience was primarily dark and the ego would not fully let go, very anxiety inducing. I did not know who I was, what I was, only that I did not want to be wherever I was. A hallucinatory phenomenon ensued in which I was assaulted with demonic voices screaming in my head, and dark shadow like “entities” reaching into my body (mind you “I” was out of my body, watching helplessly from above but feeling everything) while they were reaching through my chest and pulling my heart out of me like that scene from Indiana Jones and the temple of doom.

If you ever experience these schizophrenic like hallucinations (psychosis) from a synthetic cannabinoid overdose it is important to try your best to keep calm (as difficult as that can be) and remember it is merely a drug induced “trip”, you bought the ticket, you take the ride. Synthetic cannabinoids induce extreme tachycardia and panicking will only raise your heart rate and blood pressure further. The most important thing to do in the event of a synthetic cannabinoid overdose (assuming you still have enough control) is to keep your heart rate down any way possible as to minimize the chance of a cardiovascular accident (heart attack or stroke).

---Tips and tricks to lower heart rate in an emergency----

1. Lie down. Anxiously pacing around will only raise your heart rate higher, making you more anxious which will land you in a negative feedback loop of anxiety reinforcing tachycardia which reinforces anxiety and the irrational fear that you are dying.

2. Try to meditate or focus on pleasant mental imagery to take your mind off the anxiety, your heart rate will come down when you stop thinking about it thereby ending the negative feedback loop which is reinforcing the anxiety and tachycardia.

3. Practice breathing exercised. Take a deep full breath and hold it for a few seconds, then fully expel the breath and repeat. Keep breathing slow, one of the causes of cannabinoid induced anxiety and tachycardia is actually hyperventilating. Breathing into a paper bag can help as well

4. Do the Valsalva maneuver.
Hold your breath and bear down in a strain (like if you’re constipated and straining to have a bowel movement). Do these for five seconds, then breathe. This fools your body into thinking your heart should slow down. If the pulse hasn’t slowed, try again.

5. Do the carotid maneuver.
Find your carotid pulse just below your jaw. The vagus nerve runs next to it. Massage very firmly for five seconds. Warning: In rare cases this could knock off a piece of a blood clot lodged in this area and cause a stroke. Don’t do this in elderly people or anyone with a history of a stroke.

6. Do an Ice-water facial.
If you have cold water (preferably ice water,) dip your face in it a few seconds. This stimulates your vagus nerve to slow your heart by causing what’s known as the dive reflex. It’s the same reflex that helps some people survive for a long time under cold water by slowing the body’s metabolism down.

When experiencing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose try your hardest to think about something else besides how unpleasant the effects are. Just like with a bad trip caused by classical psychedelics you may find that if you can get your mind off the negativity you may find that it is actually pleasant (In very minor ODs at least.) Do not focus on your pulse, it reinforces the anxiety and makes the tachycardia much worse. You would be surprised at how well the body handles tachycardia, and you are extremely unlikely (assuming you are healthy) to have a heart attack from your heart beating too fast. For a mild overdose, while it is hard to realize it at the time, your heart really isn’t beating much faster than if you where to run a mile or engage in any heavy exercise.

Symptoms and sensations you may experience during a synthetic cannabinoid overdose

•   Tachycardia (racing heart beat)
•   Auditory hallucinations (hearing voices)
•   Tactile hallucinations (touch hallucinations)
•   Feeling as though you have pissed yourself
•   Nausea and vomiting
•   Severe anxiety and feeling of immanent doom
•   Visual hallucinations (both open and closed eye visuals)
•   Severe dissociation of mind and body (feeling as though you are “outside yourself”)
•   Fluctuations in blood pressure (either high or low)
•   Agitation and aggression
•   Sensation that you or objects around you are melting (similar but different to the feeling of psychedelics)
•   Audio and visual flanging effect (very similar to nitrous, ketamine, or DXM)
•   Phantom pains in various areas of the body (likely a hallucination)
•   Severe paranoia (like pot times ten)
•   Seizures (rare, extreme overdose)
•   Cardiovascular accidents (rare, extreme overdose)
•   Loss of motor control
•   Unresponsiveness (extreme overdose)
•   Looping thoughts or actions
•   Ego death/loss (rare, wish it was more common)
•   Seizures (rare, extreme overdose)
•   Cardiovascular accidents (rare, extreme overdose)
•   Loss of motor control
•   Unresponsiveness (extreme overdose)
•   Looping thoughts or actions
•   Ego death/loss (rare, wish it was more common)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---Some other things you can do to take your mind off of the anxiety---

•   Watch TV, preferably a program that is easy to follow and not a lot of shooting or cop car noises (nothing is worse while on any intoxicating substance than hearing the sound of cop cars.)

•   As mentioned before in the how to slow your heart rate section, meditation can be a great way to take your mind off of the negativity

•   Turn on all the lights in the house, darkness can bring on a negative mindstate in some people (this goes for psychedelics as well.)

•   If you are experiencing dissociation or hallucinations try to avoid closing your eyes, as the CEVs produced by cannabinoids are often more intense than the OEVs

•   Get something to eat, you will feel better quickly once you get some food in you. As with marijuana, eating something will quickly bring you down

•   Sing a song out loud or listen to positive, uplifting music preferably without words, I find psybient to be great (but not the dark stuff).

•   Drink plenty of water, you may be dehydrated and not know it

•   Take a shower

•   Try to introspect and determine the source of the anxiety (only recommended for mild overdoses or for those experienced with psychedelic substances)

•   If you are not too far gone and it is still possible (ie: mild OD) try to read, it can really help to take your mind off the negativity

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------What is and is not a medical emergency from SC use------------------------------
----------Medical emergency requiring immediate care  (call 911 or drive to hospital)---------

-Seizures and convulsions
-Anaphylactic shock (allergic reaction)
-serious hives or perceivable swelling
-Severe flank pain persisting after intoxication has worn off (may indicate AKI)
-Signs of stroke or heart attack persisting after the typical duration of intoxication (SC’s cause panic attacks which have many symptoms consistent with stroke or heart attack so differentiating them during the intoxication is difficult)
-Person an immediate threat to self or others, severe psychotic break
-Person not breathing

*Remember that a panic attack can mimic the symptoms of many serious problems so it can be hard to distinguish between them, you should familiarize yourself with the symptoms of a panic attack which are listed below*

-Panic Attack Symptoms-
•   Sense of impending doom or danger
•   Fear of loss of control or death
•   Rapid heart rate
•   Sweating
•   Trembling
•   Shortness of breath
•   Hyperventilation
•   Chills
•   Hot flashes
•   Nausea
•   Abdominal cramping
•   Chest pain
•   Headache
•   Dizziness
•   Faintness

Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Ben on July 16, 2013, 01:13 am
That makes an interesting read.

However, i'm affraid it is very very difficult to tell the difference between a psychological panic attack and serious medical condition purely on what you are feeling, or even on what others observe about you.

I do not want to instill fear, but on the other hand research chemicals could have serious side effects that are very real and would require medical attention in some cases. Erring on the side of caution would be best in such situations.

Something like increased hart rate, chest palpitations and profuse sweating could be the result of using a cannabinoid rc, but it could also be the result of a serious medical problem. By just observing the symptoms these are virtually impossible to tell apart. And while it seems extremely unlikely that you would suffer a cardiovascular incident at the exact same time you are experimenting with drugs, it cannot be completely excluded either.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Trippinmonkey on July 16, 2013, 01:50 am
Nah.. while you are 100% right. Lets not freak him out.

After the rc wears off everything will be fine again and you learned never to do that again.

Ben im gonna send you a pm
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: zipstyle on July 16, 2013, 10:12 am
Solution in this situation: positive mindset (as much as possible) and take a damn benzo.
This same thing happened to me and luckily I had taken an alprazolam shortly after I finished smoking the synthetic cannabinoid.

It seriously felt like a parade of knights in shining armor were coming through the clouds to carry me off into peaceful cloud heaven. It was nice and then I fell asleep.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Tellemetree on July 16, 2013, 10:45 am
I'm still yet to find a thread that talks up synthetic cannabanoids.

I'm sure some ppl must think they are great but by and large most of what I read on them is profoundly negative, esp when compared to normal cannabanoids.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: zipstyle on July 16, 2013, 11:30 am
I'm still yet to find a thread that talks up synthetic cannabanoids.

I'm sure some ppl must think they are great but by and large most of what I read on them is profoundly negative, esp when compared to normal cannabanoids.

The only one that I have ever had 95% positive experiences with was JWH-018. Anything else is rubbish, imo.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: correctly on July 16, 2013, 12:50 pm
i know of one person out of maybe 50 who i know have tried
very bad reaction to synth cannabinoids

has happened twice to him
after one hit only from a blend of noids
eyes will roll back, the power to speak is gone, basically you become a
spasming seizing vegetable for 30-45 minutes
it would look as if all hope is lost
breathing slows and he looks unconscious but is not

it might also have been a allergic reaction which is why it could be very very dangerous
i'm sorry but i would really advice to never use synths again
i enjoyed it immensely and its great but i think the risk is just not worth it

anyway, my 2 cents. good luck and stay safe.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Ben on July 17, 2013, 12:36 am
I'm still yet to find a thread that talks up synthetic cannabanoids.

I'm sure some ppl must think they are great but by and large most of what I read on them is profoundly negative, esp when compared to normal cannabanoids.

I suppose the point is that you compare it to natural cannabis. Personally i wonder why people go with the research chemicals when cannabis is widely available in most parts of the world. Perhaps it has something to do with US drug testing procedures and what not, but apart from that i see no reason to go with RC instead of good old pot.

Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: National Direct on July 17, 2013, 05:10 am
JWH and a few others are full-spectrum cannabinoids, meaning they emulate the plant material to a far better extent than other cannabinoid isolates that cause endless adverse effects. I personally think that synth cannabis is a result of mislead drug laws in many countries. Here in Canada all synthetic cannabinoids are legal as far as I know, and it's simply because very few people take it here. It's easy to get weed, and the penalties for weed possession here won't even leave a mark on your wrists, unless you get arrested by a cop that likes to tighten the cuffs to fuck.

That said, I have no personal experience with synth cannabis, but I would say the best ay to avoid the side effects is simply not take it. If that's not an option, quick acting benzos are likely the most effective remedy.

I'm gonna stick with my weed and hash and expect what I always get from using them.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Ben on July 18, 2013, 01:28 am
As i've worked on cannabinoids during by bachelor study i'm quite familiar with the synthetics. Several very good cannabinoid partial agonists are known, such as anandamide and 2-ag, but those are not effective as recreational drugs since they do not cross the blood brain barrier at all. These substances are naturally present in all mammals however, and probably are the 'normal' agonists of the cannabinoid receptors.

Substances like JWH-018 are full CB1 agonists though, so their effects are probably different from that of either the endocanabinoids and that of THC.

I think everyone should have the chance to enjoy any drug they want, but i would not go as far as saying that JHW-018 (or 073) is a synthetic equivalent of weed. It surely acts on the same system, but even with natural cannabis there are differences in how people react to plant products richter or poorer in CBD compared to THC. I suppose something like JWH-018 could be considered to be '200% sativa', while many users actually enjoy the indica properties of cannabis strains just as much.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: National Direct on July 18, 2013, 01:35 am
As i've worked on cannabinoids during by bachelor study i'm quite familiar with the synthetics. Several very good cannabinoid partial agonists are known, such as anandamide and 2-ag, but those are not effective as recreational drugs since they do not cross the blood brain barrier at all. These substances are naturally present in all mammals however, and probably are the 'normal' agonists of the cannabinoid receptors.

Substances like JWH-018 are full CB1 agonists though, so their effects are probably different from that of either the endocanabinoids and that of THC.

I think everyone should have the chance to enjoy any drug they want, but i would not go as far as saying that JHW-018 (or 073) is a synthetic equivalent of weed. It surely acts on the same system, but even with natural cannabis there are differences in how people react to plant products richter or poorer in CBD compared to THC. I suppose something like JWH-018 could be considered to be '200% sativa', while many users actually enjoy the indica properties of cannabis strains just as much.


Thanks for the info, I was curious to learn more about the medical potential that these substances have, since that is ultimately mroe important than recreational value (IMO - I'm sure many here don't give a fuck about the pharmaceutical applications lol)

PINACA derived cannabinoids are being mass produced in China right now. Don't know what to think of that, but the competition for selling leads is fierce across the Pacific. AB-PINACA and AB-FUBINACA. Maybe Be knows a thing or 2 about these Japanese fruit sounding compounds.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: cabinman01 on July 18, 2013, 03:16 am
I've had many good experiences with the JWH strains in the past.  I used it because it was easier to get ahold of, and hell it was new so I thought I would try it.  The problem is that you don't always know what you are getting when you buy it from say, a head shop or gas station.  A certain strain can be fine on you, but the smallest change in the chemical structure can be disasterous.  I found that out the hard way.  A panic attack is nothing compared to some of the frightening situations that synthetic cannabis can induce on someone.  Needless to say, I'll never use any synthetic cannabis again! Ha
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Ben on July 19, 2013, 12:45 am
Thanks for the info, I was curious to learn more about the medical potential that these substances have, since that is ultimately mroe important than recreational value (IMO - I'm sure many here don't give a fuck about the pharmaceutical applications lol)

Well, the research was along the lines of medical application. It turns out that taking cannabinoids before suffering a stroke actually reduces the amount of damage, in rats. This would have direct application if you could somehow know you would suffer a stroke an hour from now (in which case i'd suggest smoking all the pot you can, unless you can make it to a hospital within that hour).

Since strokes are usually not predictable research continues into investigating the effect of taking cannabinoids shortly after suffering one, which also shows some promise, but nothing as large as the effect of taking it sometime before the stroke.

In research the strokes were obviously artificially inflicted in rats, but that compares pretty well to a 'natural' stroke in any mammal.

In any way, the research chemicals were virtually all intended towards this type of medical research, and they are not designer recreational drugs in any way. Substances that bind extremely well to cannabinoid receptors have been developed as well, mostly because they can be labeled with radioactive isotopes to figure out the distribution of cannabinoid receptors in various tissues. These strong binding substances do not activate the receptor in all cases though - they can be full antagonists that just have very good affection to the receptor.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on July 21, 2013, 11:09 pm
Its a very common effect of synthetic cannabinoid overdose. If you smoke too much of any synthetic you can feel as though you are dying. Its just a panic attack, and as everyone should know those feel almost identical to a heart attack. You can air on the side of caution but if you are a synthnoid user you will be going to the hospital everyday because panic attacks are extremely common. I have gone through hundreds of them, you never actually die, and it doesn't last long enough to need a benzo. It will be over before the benzo has time to work.

I do not do synthnoids anymore for this exact reason. The key is to get your mind off the sensation and lower your heartrate. That will alleviate the fear, I would not advise taking another drug to deal with it.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: correctly on July 22, 2013, 09:18 am
it is not always a panic attack. i have seen seizures and people black out here.
the effects of the overdose vary so much that it is just not worth it
someone may just die from an allergy or a seizure and get permanent brain damage or what
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Hearts on July 22, 2013, 12:37 pm
Completely unrelated but I've seen DMTryptamine285's threads and I always enjoy reading through the help he gives out.

 Anyways, about over a week ago I got my 25i NBOMe's and took them now and then, until 5 days ago I took a blotter and a half, which was approximately 1800ug. I proceeded to smoke a joint (I haven't smoked weed in 3 weeks, and 3 weeks ago I had only smoked a couple of times, before that, 6 months clean, so it really hit me good).

Anyways, after a while, I was just really high, and decided to eat a bag of chips, upon eating, I realized, I could not feel my body. I could not feel my face. But I kept on eating. I finally realized, that my "framerate" was so slow, what I was seeing, and what I had felt, were completely off sync.

I began losing my trait of thought and became really confused. I felt sick, I tried rubbing my face to see if I could still control myself, and I felt like I was actually Schizophrenic. My reaction was so slow to things that I thought I was schizophrenic and another persona of myself is controlling myself. I was getting worried because I thought it was not possible since I was still conscious, but it genuinely felt like someone else was controlling me, I was shit scared if I stood up and went around the house doing shit, but thankfully I remained in my room.

I have never been this scared, I had never taken NBOMe with weed and it had been so long since I smoked. I layed on my bed, stared at the walls and my vision was typically like a NBOMe trip (25i), there were strange spots around me, warping walls... Tons of colors and tracers, its like "snow vision" with the whole pallet of colours off the rainbow...  anyways things began to slow down even more. I began recalling muscle memory, this may sound weird but when I twitched my face, or moved my lips, it felt like someone was out there pulling my face and doing it to me (involuntary movements). Have you seen videos of something played backwards? lets say someone is talking and the video is played backwards and his face movements seem odd and silly, or a ball hitting someones face played backwards, I felt like the ball had hit me and returned to the person who threw it with my face feeling fucking weird. I thought my mom was doing it to me (Moving my lips and face), The movements just felt really involuntary.

But really I was just really out of it. I got scared that I was going to be brain damaged, I remember before knocking out (Thank GOD the weed helped me sleep, even on NBOMe.. but it was still the mix of the two that fucked me up) I was staring at the wall blankly, I couldn't hold a thought, I didn't know what I was, had visions of the universe, how insignificant I was.. Next I either had a dream while knocked out or right before it, but I felt like "God" or an entity with more power and intelligence that was governing the universe was showing me what I really was. It was like I was some kind of ball of energy, and it was persuading me that this IS reality, this is what you really are; The world and your body is nothing like what is lies beyond. And I layed there trying to accept this reality, this way of thinking, this "new perspective" at the time...

While I was going through that I was just scared, really worried, but I told myself, just knock out, sleep, you will be ok later, you're just really really fucking high.. and eventually I woke up and everything was back to normal...

Sorry if this made almost no sense, but this was my weird ass experience with 25i and weed, (you can say with barely any weed tolerance).. Any comments on this mix/experience DMTryptamine285?
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: mcguire39 on July 22, 2013, 06:41 pm
Thanks for the tips on how to deal with one if it occurs. If I had it to do over I would have never touched any of the cannabinoids. I got my first panic attack from an overdose of Magic Silver some years back. Magic Silver is a 'spice' like incense containing cannabinoid RC's; I do not know which ones.

I had never had a panic attack previously. I didn't even know what was happening until I realized the symptoms I was having fit those of a panic attack. And then that made it only worse, because now I was panicking that I was having a panic attack, if that makes any sense. Fortunately it wasn't too major of a panic attack, but it is something I never wish to repeat.

I would say the worst part of it is now I know what a panic attack feels like. It's one of those things you can read about and have people tell you what it feels like, but, you never know what that terror is until you have one. And then you can never forget that feeling. And in the back of your mind, at least mine, I always have a bit of fear that it might repeat. Panic is a unique state of mind/emotion that's for sure. It's related to terror I think but it seems to be the notion/feeling that there is nothing you can do about the situation that makes it worse.

Now that I have a source for genuine cannabis (rather than Spice and other incense), I am easing back into it. When I get really stoned sometimes I feel a slight bit of that panic, but nothing like on the incense. And normally with cannabis it seems to start right after an exceptionally strong hit and then it begins to recede within about 15 minutes, whereas with the synthetic I think it was an hour or so that my attack was going on.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: ejammings on July 22, 2013, 06:57 pm
I smoked a bowl of "Brain Freeze." Not sure of the chemical name.

I was thrown in a terrifying mind loop, it lasted only 40 minutes but to me it felt like I was in that chair for 4 hours. During that 40 minutes I had forgotten everything. I didn't know who my friends were, who I was, how to talk, and how to breath for enough time that it was extremely frightening.  The music my friends had playing was scaring the hell out of me too. They caught on and turned off the music.

I dealt with by convincing myself this was temporary, once it wore off I'd remember everything again, my gut felt like being on a ride at a carnival where you are upside down and suspended in air(on the ride this lasts ~1 second) but for the whole 40 minutes.

Needless to say I will not touch synthetic anymore.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on July 23, 2013, 06:46 pm
While completely off topic I will answer the question because I experienced the same damn thing.

I am convinced that weed and 25x-nbome leads to delusional experiences. I do not know why this occurs but it seems to quite regularly. You can be having a great experience and for some reason toking just completely throws you for a loop. I would like to know why this is as well. Perhaps you should start a new thread and see if this happens to anyone else.

I have seen some experience reports on other forums regarding the same thing. Unfortunately its too new a substance to figure out the pharmacological reason behind it, I would just like to know if anyone else has experienced that as well.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: SmokesHisBroccoli on July 23, 2013, 10:40 pm
To the OP, thanks for such an informative post!  I did stop reading where you started listing ways to cope and deal with the overdose, but that's only because I never intend on smoking synthetic cannabinoids again if I don't have to.  So basically I just read on your description of the overdose itself and I can say I've experienced the fear on one occasion and fear and a disconnection from myself/reality on other occasion. 

Those were really the only two bad trips I've had with synthetic cannabis but I fully agree with the description from the OP.  It's hard to put into works but you did a great job.  Both times that I smoked too much and the OD symptoms kicked in it was an intense panic attack like you mentioned.  Heart was beating out of my chest and I thought I was having a heart attack.  Shortness of breath and all that.  The way I got through it was to just try and relax and coach myself and reassure myself that the drug is causing this and that it would pass.  Out of the two times I OD the one time I was out in public having just smoked in my car getting ready to go to the bar.  After I smoked I couldn't get out of my car and when I did I just leaned up against the wall for a couple of hours until it passed.  The other time I OD I ended up laying down in bed and passing out.  I woke up with the worst hangover. 

Tip of the day for spice smokers:  Don't sprinkle a bunch of kief from your spice bag onto your bowl like it's marijuana kief.  This caused one of my intense OD trips. 
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: slirp on July 23, 2013, 10:41 pm
Some of the synthetic cannabinoid experiences seem similar to ego death.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: aussiepp on July 23, 2013, 10:47 pm
Isn't that enough reason not to touch that shit? Jesus Christ, it's fucking poison. Stick with natural bud, for fuck sake.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: ejammings on July 24, 2013, 05:16 am
While completely off topic I will answer the question because I experienced the same damn thing.

I am convinced that weed and 25x-nbome leads to delusional experiences. I do not know why this occurs but it seems to quite regularly. You can be having a great experience and for some reason toking just completely throws you for a loop. I would like to know why this is as well. Perhaps you should start a new thread and see if this happens to anyone else.

I have seen some experience reports on other forums regarding the same thing. Unfortunately its too new a substance to figure out the pharmacological reason behind it, I would just like to know if anyone else has experienced that as well.
Definitely.

I thought I was having a lucid dream but really I was prancing around the neighborhood barefoot. Neighbor called me an ambulance.. 2mg of 25i-nbome and lots of weed.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Hearts on July 24, 2013, 08:10 am
While completely off topic I will answer the question because I experienced the same damn thing.

I am convinced that weed and 25x-nbome leads to delusional experiences. I do not know why this occurs but it seems to quite regularly. You can be having a great experience and for some reason toking just completely throws you for a loop. I would like to know why this is as well. Perhaps you should start a new thread and see if this happens to anyone else.

I have seen some experience reports on other forums regarding the same thing. Unfortunately its too new a substance to figure out the pharmacological reason behind it, I would just like to know if anyone else has experienced that as well.

Oh my gosh I thought I was the only one! I will make a thread and quote what you said if thats alright DMTryptamine. And thanks for replying :)
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: slirp on July 24, 2013, 05:57 pm
I've seen a "I'm dying" and seeings-oneself-with-eyes-closed experience after using a psychedelic (LSD rather than NBOMe) as well.  It seems there is some sort of synergetic effect.  I don't think it is simply a panic attack though.  psychedelic users often report high anxiety when approaching ego death.  The fear is a effect rather than a cause.

If you can let go of the fear then you may find the experience enlightening but since I personally haven't been able to get the synthetic cannabinoids to do much for me I really can't test that theory.

I'm still concerned about the safety of 5f-ur144.  I consider jwh-018 to be relatively safe.  It is a shame gov'ts had to ban it because "it is like marijuana" thus leading to the development and release of other chemicals which may be significantly less safe.

Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Hearts on July 25, 2013, 08:42 am
You know that got me thinking, could I have experienced an ego death? I actually felt like what you just said! Except after being scared I accepted it, it was very odd.. (if you read my post about some higher life form governing the universe showing me what reality actually is, and this is what you are <a ball of energy>... But I don't think you can ego death on 25i + weed... can you? lol..

But it genuinely felt like I was out of my own body at one point
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: Real_Drugs on July 25, 2013, 12:13 pm
Heavily debatable, but very informative.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: slirp on July 25, 2013, 02:32 pm
You know that got me thinking, could I have experienced an ego death? I actually felt like what you just said! Except after being scared I accepted it, it was very odd.. (if you read my post about some higher life form governing the universe showing me what reality actually is, and this is what you are <a ball of energy>... But I don't think you can ego death on 25i + weed... can you? lol..

But it genuinely felt like I was out of my own body at one point

If you experienced ego death, then I guess it is possible.  Weed seems to make people more susceptible to the effects of psychedelics.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: National Direct on August 06, 2013, 05:35 am
ego death can be experienced thru meditation and ideological and/or psychological perspective changes. This doesn't require drugs, but for different people a hit of weed could get you there, for another it might take a high dose of LSD. Very subjective and always possible with psychadelics.
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: chronicjohnson on August 06, 2013, 10:39 pm
Isn't that enough reason not to touch that shit? Jesus Christ, it's fucking poison. Stick with natural bud, for fuck sake.
I agree. Why would anyone bother with this stupid crap? Smoke real weed, people!!!!
Title: Re: Managing a synthetic cannabinoid overdose
Post by: semi_feral_human on August 06, 2013, 11:40 pm
Isn't that enough reason not to touch that shit? Jesus Christ, it's fucking poison. Stick with natural bud, for fuck sake.
I agree. Why would anyone bother with this stupid crap? Smoke real weed, people!!!!

Well synthetics are infinitely cheaper for one. Also, some people have to take employment drug tests, which tend to always test for real weed and almost never for synthetics. Still some people, ignoring the previous two reasons, actually prefer certain synthetics over weed (or at least the weed that's readily available to them).

I've had panic attacks on both, particularly after breaks.