Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: asianboy on October 28, 2012, 12:20 am
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Which drugs if any would you like to see banned?
I know Bromodragonfly and phenazepam tend to be hated by many. I personally don't wanna see anything banned.
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I apologize if this is off topic I'm just curious. I've never heard of either of those drugs. why do people hate them so much?
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Long duration, accidental deaths, and bizarre behavior. Google it.
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Phenazepam - Powerful benzo with none of the fun effects of a benzo. Has an extremely long half life and has led many into a 5+ day long blackout resulting in waking up in a prison cell, road, some random house or just not at all (aka death)
Scopolamine - Not very recreational and has a boatload of misuses that it can be used for. It's not a hallucinogenic drug, it's a delieriant, it will have you TRULY believing you're smoking that cigarette that actually isn't in your hands and leaves you with fleeting memories if any of what happened. Also extremely dangerous in terms of dosing pure scopolamine, it's very easy to overdose, and the result's aren't pretty (there's a little more control if it's the Datura seeds themselves, not a purified extract, but my first sentence stands for itself).
Pentobarbital (large quanties) - People seem to only be seeking this out as a means to commit suicide, which i'd rather not see / hear of. Smaller quantities fine, but 9+ grams they are trying to off themselves. It's your choice if you choose that path, I just don't think SR should be the conduit through which you can obtain the means to do so (commit suicide).
One person has been trying to seek out Hydrogen Cyanide, Tetradotoxin, Ricin and pure Nicotine probably other's too. Those I don't consider drugs at all, but poison with no other use then to cause harm/death.
I'm not a fan at all of MDPV either, but it is recreational and it CAN (but rarely is) be used ... responsibly. The powerful urge to redose though and then end up doing crazy things does not make for a drug i'd like to see around.
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Pentobarbital (large quanties) - People seem to only be seeking this out as a means to commit suicide, which i'd rather not see / hear of. Smaller quantities fine, but 9+ grams they are trying to off themselves. It's your choice if you choose that path, I just don't think SR should be the conduit through which you can obtain the means to do so (commit suicide).
One person has been trying to seek out Hydrogen Cyanide, Tetradotoxin, Ricin and pure Nicotine probably other's too. Those I don't consider drugs at all, but poison with no other use then to cause harm/death.
That is so sad. I really hope people aren't ordering drugs to kill themselves. I want to cry just thinking about it.
And I really hope no one is buying drugs to murder with.
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Well, no, I did not expect to find s fairy tale land. I am not just here for coupons, but they are fun. I came ghere for the opiates and amphetamines.
But I can at least try to remain in my insulated little bubble with unicorns and rainbows.
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i wish there was some pentobarbital to buy on here. or secobarbital. not for suicide, because they are excellent sleep aids that really work
i would hope nothing would ever be banned on here, as long as it's a drug. i agree that poisons like ricin have no place on here
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That is so sad. I really hope people aren't ordering drugs to kill themselves. I want to cry just thinking about it.
sorry if being suicidal upsets you, it's just a fact of life for some people. thank god that you do not know what it is like.
some of us are terribly suicidal, and it can be part of the reason we do drugs in the first place - I mean really, who the fuck cares if I get high because I might be dead next week - might as well try and enjoy the day.
wouldn't you rather someone killed themselves in a dignified, personal manner instead of a violent means like jumping/hanging/shooting? don't people deserve at least that small comfort in a world full of pain?
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That is so sad. I really hope people aren't ordering drugs to kill themselves. I want to cry just thinking about it.
sorry if being suicidal upsets you, it's just a fact of life for some people. thank god that you do not know what it is like.
some of us are terribly suicidal, and it can be part of the reason we do drugs in the first place - I mean really, who the fuck cares if I get high because I might be dead next week - might as well try and enjoy the day.
wouldn't you rather someone killed themselves in a dignified, personal manner instead of a violent means like jumping/hanging/shooting? don't people deserve at least that small comfort in a world full of pain?
Ummm, yeah actually I do know from first hand experience exactly what it is like. Way to jump to conclusions. That is precisely why it makes me sad. If you read any of my other posts you would see that I mentioned I have been hospitalized for attempted suicide. I would never wish that on my worst enemy.
Sorry if it rubs people the wrong way that I have empathy and it makes me sad to think about someone ordering phenobarbital in preperation to commit suicide. I think about how sad their loved ones will be, how desperate they must feel, and I wish I could help them...stuff like that. I am an empathetic person and I always think about things like that.
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i wish there was some pentobarbital to buy on here. or secobarbital. not for suicide, because they are excellent sleep aids that really work
i would hope nothing would ever be banned on here, as long as it's a drug. i agree that poisons like ricin have no place on here
I agree it shouldn't be outright banned, it's the only sleep aid that works for me (fuck ambien, im a benzohead already, etc.), I just don't want to see ppl listing 9g of it (that's a lot of pills). Didn't mean to open up old wounds RE: suicide, I have seriouss depression and suicidal related problems myself, it's probably why I added it to the list. In small amounts i'd love to see it here, in bulk though .,.. well like the other person said it makes me sad to think that SR was the platform that facilitated someone taking their own life.
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Pentobarbital (large quanties) - People seem to only be seeking this out as a means to commit suicide, which i'd rather not see / hear of. Smaller quantities fine, but 9+ grams they are trying to off themselves. It's your choice if you choose that path, I just don't think SR should be the conduit through which you can obtain the means to do so (commit suicide).
I don't agree! I think that it is perfectly acceptable if not noble for silk road to be aforementioned conduit, it may well be the only conduit accessible to terminally ill and potentially immobile persons in a whole world of pain that we can not even begin to comprehend!
Hats off to SR for having the courage to allow such substances to be offered!
Didn't mean to open up old wounds RE: suicide, I have seriouss depression and suicidal related problems myself, it's probably why I added it to the list. In small amounts i'd love to see it here, in bulk though .,.. well like the other person said it makes me sad to think that SR was the platform that facilitated someone taking their own life.
I dose not make me sad it makes me proud and I am a very empathetic individual, That is why I feel the way I do!
I have had serious depression myself and have sat teetering on the knife edge that is suicide myself, I am glad I did not go through with it but it was a close thing, I had no one but myself to steer my fate!
I'm going off on a tangent now ::)
I am very tired but tomorrow I will search the forums and see if there is a thread discussing suicide on the road, if not I shall start one and give my 2 pence!
P.S barbituates are very useful tools if handled responsibly by educated individuals.....whatever there intended use.
Peace
L
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I don't believe in banning any drug, no matter how dangerous or unpleasant the effects may be.
It is up to the user to decide whether or not what they are doing is best for them. If they fuck up their lives as a result of drug use, they were a victim of their own irresponsibility, not the drug. The way I see it, drugs for them were a quicker means to the same end. Even if drugs didn't exist, they would have found some other way to hurt themselves and those around them.
A big reason why drugs are illegal today are because people destroy their lives through drug use, then fail to take responsibility for their own actions. They point fingers and say things like "drugs ruined my life." Well actually, drugs didn't ruin your life; you ruined your life. Unfortunately, black tar heroin doesn't have the right to an attorney, let alone defend itself. It is simply a substance, and it's not going to get into your system unless you make the decision to put it there.
Now, deaths and health complications caused by cutting agents or dishonest dealers are completely different, but those are inevitable results of the criminalization of drug use.
Just my two bitcoins
-schmuck
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I'm not so sure the chance of a drug heing used for suicide should really play a part in it being banned or not because if that was the case we'd lose heroin, all benzos, hell most pills in general. There are tons of drugs available on SR that could easily be used to facilitate suicide. I just pray anyone planning to do so would reach out for help first :(
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Sad but true, cyanide is for sale on SR.
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heroin definitely heroin, ah and crystal meth. I have heard about bathsalts heard they were pretty nasty. Just don't see any use for these drugs other that to "get fucked up and not be a part of this world for a while". Quite sad, these people need help.
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I would like to see nicotine and alcohol banned. Not forever or so, but just for a while so that those people who are now always trying to take the moral stand by saying "you shouldnt do xyz because its illegal" and "you cant do that, its illegal man!" will be in my position for a while when they secretly get there wine from a whine dealer and have to score packs of Marlboro illegally.
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I would like to see nicotine and alcohol banned. Not forever or so, but just for a while so that those people who are now always trying to take the moral stand by saying "you shouldnt do xyz because its illegal" and "you cant do that, its illegal man!" will be in my position for a while when they secretly get there wine from a whine dealer and have to score packs of Marlboro illegally.
+1
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If you need the government to take care of you and to tell you what is safe to use and what is not safe to use then you shouldn't be using substances to begin with.
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I think marijuana should be banned. I've heard of a guy who snorted 3 marijuanas and died of a heart attack.
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I would like to see nicotine and alcohol banned. Not forever or so, but just for a while so that those people who are now always trying to take the moral stand by saying "you shouldnt do xyz because its illegal" and "you cant do that, its illegal man!" will be in my position for a while when they secretly get there wine from a whine dealer and have to score packs of Marlboro illegally.
+1
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I think marijuana should be banned. I've heard of a guy who snorted 3 marijuanas and died of a heart attack.
Lol
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I am always in for a little havoc, ban nicotine and alcohol and see the world collapse around you in two days. Imagine your white collar, well-groomed neighbor break bad for a pack of cigarettes... I think that would come pretty close to a zombie apocalypse *walks off to sharpen the edges of his spade*
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Prohibition solves nothing , it is proven to increase use of said prohibited substance.
Drugs should be legalized and the money saved from less gang related violence/healthcare/LE funds etc , could be funneled into education and support networks for those with problems.
The world would be a funner , safer , less violent and healthier.
This wasn't written very eloquently but you get my drift.
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I would certainly see plenty of drugs regulated; but I would assume we are all here because we want our drug(s) to be available and legal so I wouldn't ban anything because I think everyone should have freedom of choice. I'm paraphrasing some US supreme court decision when I say "if you treat everyone like children, then they will act like children"
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all research chemicals those things are worthless
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all research chemicals those things are worthless
MDMA would've been considered a research chemical for many decades >.>
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all research chemicals those things are worthless
MDMA would've been considered a research chemical for many decades >.>
i'm talking current ones like last 10 years or so NOT molly or lucy
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That's my point, why not the new ones? No innovations for you? This leads to perhaps better ones being discovered. Your way leads to nothing new, no progress.
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That's my point, why not the new ones? No innovations for you? This leads to perhaps better ones being discovered. Your way leads to nothing new, no progress.
lets see nbome or acid nbome is cheap for a reason its fucking garbage do whatever you like bro i'll stick with real shit that i know will fuck me up not some fucking synthetic bullshit thats supposed to be like the real thing kind of like titties real or fake i'll chose the real tits anyday
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So LSD is real titties and current RC's are fake titties? Sounds like one of those people who are against GMO's. If you are, also wrong. Science > You
As to why they are cheap, not worth explaining basics to you but it has nothing to do with quality >.>
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Prohibition solves nothing , it is proven to increase use of said prohibited substance.
Drugs should be legalized and the money saved from less gang related violence/healthcare/LE funds etc , could be funneled into education and support networks for those with problems.
I agree with SpiceyT.
If drugs were legalized and controlled we wouldn't have to worry about [bad] quality or jail-time for a high.
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"Fuck it, we would have injected Vitamin C if only they'd made it illegal."
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"Fuck it, we would have injected Vitamin C if only they'd made it illegal."
Wat
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Alcohol, heroine, meth, maybe commercial cigs and a few nasty rc's that mess with your blood pressure and give skin rashes - but banning is in actuality impossible because people will continue to manufacture these drugs, whether their governments ban them or not.
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I wrote an article about it actually, just this one:
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=66779.0
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The only substance and scene that I've dealt with that was truly horrific was meth, crack takes a 2nd even. I still wouldn't want it banned, everything can serve a purpose (even if it's just getting lit) in moderation. I'd rather see the idiots that abuse the substances banned from life before you ban the substance.
We already have laws against the bad shit people do. What difference does it make to account for what substance they're on when they do it?
Lots of room to expand here but I've already eaten enough time in this part of the forums tonight :)
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Cyanide on SR needs to be banned!
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Cyanide cannot be banned.It has many industrial uses.
If the sellers are really selling cyanide the real stuff , then there should not be any problem.
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I think all drugs should be legal upon completion of a course on the addiction potential and safety.
I aggree with this.
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I think it's easy to say "all drugs should be legal upon completion of a course on the addiction potential and safety" until you're dealing with something 1500x stronger than morphine, i.e. Etonitazene. For mankind's sake, I hope RC opiates like that never set foot outside of the lab.
Has anyone actually used Etonitazene, you might be wondering. Why yes, there actually is such a reported case!:
Thomas Highsmith worked at a prestigious laboratory in Salt Lake City designing low-friction laminates for high-performance skis. In 2003, he started spending long nights in his lab secretly manufacturing a personal supply of etonitazene. Shortly after completing the synthesis, he became hopelessly addicted. He would show up for work clutching a 12-ounce spray bottle of etonitazene and fiendishly snort it throughout the day. Over the course of a couple of months, his tolerance escalated to the point where he was taking 300 times his starting dose. A coworker became suspicious of Highsmith’s odd behavior and reported him to the police. His etonitazene supply was seized, and he was prescribed methadone to combat the withdrawal. At that point, his addiction equated to 500 bags of heroin a day, and the methadone umbrella did nothing to deflect the 10,000-pound etonitazene anvil hurtling toward his head. Highsmith never received a criminal sentence because he was found dead in his home before his first court date. The withdrawals were so severe that he had killed himself to escape the pain.
http://www.vice.com/read/hamiltons-pharmacopeia-804-v16n4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etonitazene
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/987708/Chemist-charged-in-drug-case.html?pg=all
... fuck everything about that.
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alcohol. nicotine in form of cigarettes. the most deadly ones.
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"Fuck it, we would have injected Vitamin C if only they'd made it illegal."
Wat
Trainspotting
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I believe most drugs should be legalized. However I think that any drug that has multiple cases of proven violent behavior should be banned. (looking at you PCP)
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"Fuck it, we would have injected Vitamin C if only they'd made it illegal."
Haha, anything is lethal at the right dosage. ANYTHING.
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Synthetic Cannabis AKA Spice Drugs... JWH-018 ect ect.... All these shitty substances were invented in the first place, because Cannabis is illegal. I wouldn't even bury 'em in the ground, just burn 'em! >:(
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Synthetic Cannabis AKA Spice Drugs... JWH-018 ect ect.... All these shitty substances were invented in the first place, because Cannabis is illegal. I wouldn't even bury 'em in the ground, just burn 'em! >:(
I tend to agree with you (not that they should be banned but they are garbage).
Why bother when it's so very easy to just get the real thing? The synthetic's mess up your tolerance to cannabinoids as well, and i'm happy that I can smoke weed till the cows come home not having to worry about developing a tolerance to the point of non-effectiveness.
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Synthetic Cannabis AKA Spice Drugs... JWH-018 ect ect.... All these shitty substances were invented in the first place, because Cannabis is illegal. I wouldn't even bury 'em in the ground, just burn 'em! >:(
I tend to agree with you (not that they should be banned but they are garbage).
Why bother when it's so very easy to just get the real thing? The synthetic's mess up your tolerance to cannabinoids as well, and i'm happy that I can smoke weed till the cows come home not having to worry about developing a tolerance to the point of non-effectiveness.
Synthetics have their place IMO. I find them very useful for tapering off weed when I'm taking breaks (keeps my appetite healthy), and they can provide a high that is qualitatively different than what THC and its relatives can give you (one particular blend makes life almost cartoonish in large enough doses, like borderline psychedelic). I also find no cross-tolerance issues between synthetics and real bud.
All that said they are an easy way to trigger panic attacks!
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Synthetic Cannabis AKA Spice Drugs... JWH-018 ect ect.... All these shitty substances were invented in the first place, because Cannabis is illegal. I wouldn't even bury 'em in the ground, just burn 'em! >:(
I tend to agree with you (not that they should be banned but they are garbage).
Why bother when it's so very easy to just get the real thing? The synthetic's mess up your tolerance to cannabinoids as well, and i'm happy that I can smoke weed till the cows come home not having to worry about developing a tolerance to the point of non-effectiveness.
Synthetics have their place IMO. I find them very useful for tapering off weed when I'm taking breaks (keeps my appetite healthy), and they can provide a high that is qualitatively different than what THC and its relatives can give you (one particular blend makes life almost cartoonish in large enough doses, like borderline psychedelic). I also find no cross-tolerance issues between synthetics and real bud.
All that said they are an easy way to trigger panic attacks!
Man, if you take a break from weed, it's better be sober than smoking Synthetics... These substances are way much potent than THC and have way more side effects... some of my worst highs came from Synthetics... One time I smoked it and after about 10 minutes I had really strong sugar fall, my face turned white and I almost fainted :-[, unless my friend had made me a good ginger lemon tea with sugar :). It's just crap... You don't know how many people here in Israel, smoke that shit while in the army, because it's undetectable in urine test unlike THC.. Also I got 2 friends who smoke Synthetics just because it's more available than hash and weed. one of them smokes about 50 bowls of Synthetics everyday... :o It's horrible...
Keep your brain healthy and stay away from bad chemicals. Smoke weed ;)
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You just have to remember that synthetics != weed. They must be treated differently. If you smoke too much, you will get into trouble. And BTW the experiences you describe from synthetics I have seen in people smoking weed before (inexperienced smokers however).
I have a feeling most people get themselves into trouble because they think that they are hardened stoners that they can smash the synthetics just as much, even though tolerance to THC does not mean tolerance to these new cannabinoids. These synthetics have a huge amount of promise in the medical community, but idiots chasing highs in irresponsible ways have given them a bad name (I've been a bit irresponsible myself with them, but I've never made the same mistake twice).
I don't smoke synthetics all the time during breaks, only to ease the lack the appetite initially. But sometimes I will smoke synthetics along with my weed, as some synthetic cannabinoids just provide a better high than THC and co IMO.
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You just have to remember that synthetics != weed. They must be treated differently. If you smoke too much, you will get into trouble. And BTW the experiences you describe from synthetics I have seen in people smoking weed before (inexperienced smokers however).
I have a feeling most people get themselves into trouble because they think that they are hardened stoners that they can smash the synthetics just as much, even though tolerance to THC does not mean tolerance to these new cannabinoids. These synthetics have a huge amount of promise in the medical community, but idiots chasing highs in irresponsible ways have given them a bad name (I've been a bit irresponsible myself with them, but I've never made the same mistake twice).
I don't smoke synthetics all the time during breaks, only to ease the lack the appetite initially. But sometimes I will smoke synthetics along with my weed, as some synthetic cannabinoids just provide a better high than THC and co IMO.
There are so many Cannabinoids in Cannabis, I'm sure you'll find a strain which make you the best high for your brain without using the synthetics. And there is for sure, cross tolerance to cannabis and synthetics. When I was smoking synthetics for a while and then got back to cannabis it was very weak. My friends who smoke synthetics everyday say that cannabis don't affect them anymore. It's because synthetics are much more potent than cannabis and they fuck up your tolerance...
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I can't vouch for the synthetics your smoking, but the ones I have smoked do not have that effect. I know there are many cannabinoids in cannabis, but they are all close analogues of one another. These synthetics have wildly different structures and can affect the receptors in ways that cannabinoids in cannabis can't (most are full agonists at at least one of the CB1 and CB2 receptors for a start). I've smoked many different types of weed but the effects some synthetics have are just on a different part of the spectrum altogether.
But as you can see, we are both talking about synthetic weed but clearly talking about 2 different blends of compounds going on our conflicting descriptions. That's the problem with lumping all synthetic cannabinoids into one big group. Each chemical is unique, and some are clearly better/worse than others. I'm in Australia where quite a large number of synthetic cannabinoids have been banned, and we have analog laws ruling out the use of simple fluorinated alternatives, so we are only seeing the newer synthetics, none of the JWH series for sure.
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none. silk road is a free market.
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none. silk road is a free market. use at your own risk.
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Petroleum
TV
Kim Kardashian
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None. SR is indeed a free market respecting the rights of people to make their own choices, also on what drugs they use.
My personal rule is: let people decide what they want to do for themselves, as long as they do not harm others. We do not need big brother to control us.
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I can't vouch for the synthetics your smoking, but the ones I have smoked do not have that effect. I know there are many cannabinoids in cannabis, but they are all close analogues of one another. These synthetics have wildly different structures and can affect the receptors in ways that cannabinoids in cannabis can't (most are full agonists at at least one of the CB1 and CB2 receptors for a start). I've smoked many different types of weed but the effects some synthetics have are just on a different part of the spectrum altogether.
But as you can see, we are both talking about synthetic weed but clearly talking about 2 different blends of compounds going on our conflicting descriptions. That's the problem with lumping all synthetic cannabinoids into one big group. Each chemical is unique, and some are clearly better/worse than others. I'm in Australia where quite a large number of synthetic cannabinoids have been banned, and we have analog laws ruling out the use of simple fluorinated alternatives, so we are only seeing the newer synthetics, none of the JWH series for sure.
You are right, everyone should do what feels good for him, but each one should ask himself if it truly makes him feel good...
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This is very tricky to answer that, and there are many aspects to the problem.
As others said, SilkRoad was created exactly for that reason : bypass prohibition of drugs, because we all know many drugs are useful when used correctly.
However, I tend to agree with you :
I think all drugs should be legal upon completion of a course on the addiction potential and safety. If you can read about phenazepam for more than an hour and not realize that's not a good thing to be involved with then by all means, go for it.
I've seen so many people trying a drug when they knew hardly nothing about it, or just what some not so trustworthy friend (or pusher) told them. Many drug users are stupids, they don't think more than one second before trying a drug. Not everybody wants to screw its life when he tries a drug for the first time. Many just want some fun without thinking first about consequences, possible addiction, or physical/psychological damage.
I agree with the fact that forbidding drugs is not the way to go, but sometimes we must have some rules, or at least systems, to prevent people to hurt themselves involuntary.
A good analogy here would be :
Driving is dangerous. Therefore, many many people drives every day. But do you give a car to a guy who don't know how to drive ? Do you think it's OK to prevent him to drive before he took lessons / driving exam ? Most of you would answer no. (Update : I meant yes)
IMO it's the same thing about drugs. I have a friend who tried amphetamine for the first time a few months back. At the moment he only knew it was a speed drug and he thought it would be a good idea to test it at his job to see if it would enhance his productivity... I just don't wanna think about what would've happened if he tried methamphetamine (crystal meth) or another nasty drug instead.. I like to think that if he read about it before, maybe he would've changed his mind...
So a good solution IMO would be to only sell a drug to someone who successfully passed a relatively small (but thorough) test about the safety and possible addiction of the drug he wants to buy/try. Of course it's only the beginning of a solution, but I really think it would help people consume drugs more responsibly without forbidding them (it's a bad idea to forbid drugs, all studies showed it, but LE and politicians are very itchy about trusting scientists, not mentioning they're often linked/controlled by mafia, criminal organizations, etc.).
Sorry I'm sure my english is bad but I did the best I could.
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IMO meth is just a more potent, less fun, more expensive version of amphetamine. Used responsibly it isn't a bad drug at all and I don't find it that psychologically addictive at all (others may disagree).
Wouldn't you be better off just cutting out the propaganda and teaching harm reduction strategies instead of creating a whole new licensing scheme? I agree that drug education is important, but I don't think that's the way to go. Either the licensing is going to be no more than a formality and probably not be that effective in teaching the dangers, or if it gets in people's way too much back to the black market they will go.
Though I suppose if you had competitive licensing from multiple firms to find what's right for the market/substance then you might be onto something!
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I dunno, for the goal of personal liberty and freedom, I am against the banning or scheduling of substances. But I must admit, that if things like Piperazines and PMMA or other things that chemists put in pills sold as E (especially in the U.S.) were banned or more severely scheduled than MDMA, you wouldn't be able to count all the f*cks that I would not give.
I originally came to SR because of all the times I had been sold pipes. Of course, you can buy a testing kit (which I did), but I just hate the fact that these awful pills that can harm or kill people are being unscrupulously sold as MDMA for profit and ease of access.
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But I must admit, that if things like Piperazines
You do realize that there are legitimate uses for Piprazines right, like busphar.
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IMO meth is just a more potent, less fun, more expensive version of amphetamine. Used responsibly it isn't a bad drug at all and I don't find it that psychologically addictive at all (others may disagree).
Wouldn't you be better off just cutting out the propaganda and teaching harm reduction strategies instead of creating a whole new licensing scheme? I agree that drug education is important, but I don't think that's the way to go. Either the licensing is going to be no more than a formality and probably not be that effective in teaching the dangers, or if it gets in people's way too much back to the black market they will go.
Though I suppose if you had competitive licensing from multiple firms to find what's right for the market/substance then you might be onto something!
You just proved how education about drugs is so important. I don't see any way you could use meth responsibly. A single dose of it can make you highly addicted. A long term use can lead to suicide, it can cause depression, anxiety, violent behaviors, and many more horrible effects.
Maybe I could give you this to read... it's all there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Effects
And no it's not propaganda, it's commonly known facts.
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IMO meth is just a more potent, less fun, more expensive version of amphetamine. Used responsibly it isn't a bad drug at all and I don't find it that psychologically addictive at all (others may disagree).
Wouldn't you be better off just cutting out the propaganda and teaching harm reduction strategies instead of creating a whole new licensing scheme? I agree that drug education is important, but I don't think that's the way to go. Either the licensing is going to be no more than a formality and probably not be that effective in teaching the dangers, or if it gets in people's way too much back to the black market they will go.
Though I suppose if you had competitive licensing from multiple firms to find what's right for the market/substance then you might be onto something!
You just proved how education about drugs is so important. I don't see any way you could use meth responsibly. A single dose of it can make you highly addicted. A long term use can lead to suicide, it can cause depression, anxiety, violent behaviors, and many more horrible effects.
Maybe I could give you this to read... it's all there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Effects
And no it's not propaganda, it's commonly known facts.
Methamphetamine still has proper medical uses and is marketed under the pharmaceutical name Desoxyn.
It's a matter of quantity, intention and ROA that dictates the responsibility of a drug's use.
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we drink it all the time, but I'd say alcohol just for a joke - the vast VAST majority of death and coma in the ER are secondary to alcohol and the many conditions that a chronic alcoholic suffer. Opiate combination are often the case but really it's just the booze. I know prohibition didn't work so I wouldn't seriously suggest this, but I'm just saying - you don't see people dying in the ER from weed overdoses (maybe a panic attack or two) but nothing compares to the etoh when it comes to numbers.
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I don't believe in banning any drug, no matter how dangerous or unpleasant the effects may be.
It is up to the user to decide whether or not what they are doing is best for them. If they fuck up their lives as a result of drug use, they were a victim of their own irresponsibility, not the drug. The way I see it, drugs for them were a quicker means to the same end. Even if drugs didn't exist, they would have found some other way to hurt themselves and those around them.
A big reason why drugs are illegal today are because people destroy their lives through drug use, then fail to take responsibility for their own actions. They point fingers and say things like "drugs ruined my life." Well actually, drugs didn't ruin your life; you ruined your life. Unfortunately, black tar heroin doesn't have the right to an attorney, let alone defend itself. It is simply a substance, and it's not going to get into your system unless you make the decision to put it there.
Now, deaths and health complications caused by cutting agents or dishonest dealers are completely different, but those are inevitable results of the criminalization of drug use.
Just my two bitcoins
-schmuck
Very much agree with schmuck on this one. Drugs don't ruin peoples lives, people do.
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Sprayed cannabis, anything with a cut in it actually!
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I don't believe in banning any drug, no matter how dangerous or unpleasant the effects may be.
It is up to the user to decide whether or not what they are doing is best for them. If they fuck up their lives as a result of drug use, they were a victim of their own irresponsibility, not the drug. The way I see it, drugs for them were a quicker means to the same end. Even if drugs didn't exist, they would have found some other way to hurt themselves and those around them.
A big reason why drugs are illegal today are because people destroy their lives through drug use, then fail to take responsibility for their own actions. They point fingers and say things like "drugs ruined my life." Well actually, drugs didn't ruin your life; you ruined your life. Unfortunately, black tar heroin doesn't have the right to an attorney, let alone defend itself. It is simply a substance, and it's not going to get into your system unless you make the decision to put it there.
Now, deaths and health complications caused by cutting agents or dishonest dealers are completely different, but those are inevitable results of the criminalization of drug use.
Just my two bitcoins
-schmuck
Very much agree with schmuck on this one. Drugs don't ruin peoples lives, people do.
True, alcohol can be abused to excess just like any other drug - it's the person using that depends on whether it will or won't (of course odds of addiction, but still..)
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Yes, drugs should never be sold as something other than what it is.. this is a leading cause of overdoses and could be bypassed with the legalization of all drugs. All drugs should be legal.
Read my signature. \/ \/ \/
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I have never tried Meth or Heroin and I never plan to. I've just seen too many people turn into bad people from those substances.
I like all drugs in moderation and to be honest, i have only used a handful.
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personally none...
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I just dream of the day when you can walk into a CVS and buy a bottle of Generic Diazapam like you can buy some advil or heartburn medication. Or some antibiotics, or whatever. If they were quality controlled and properly labeled I am sure everything would be just fine!
You know, Children's Tylenol is probably the most dangerous drug out there! People overdose their kids on that from ignorance or negligance all the time. But of course the idiot sheep will moan that legalizing heroin, or cocaine, or making available without a prescription many controlled drugs and selling them behind the counter to people 21 years of age or older will kill kids. Highly unlikely. It will probably enable the parents to live more productive lives if anything and stay out of jail. Big Pharma and Doctor's have a stranglehold on us. Now people die rather than rack up tens of thousands in ER visits for want of an antibiotic prescription.
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i would make everything that is legal, illegal.( caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, etc..)
i think it would change the world dramatically to be honest :P
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i would make everything that is legal, illegal.( caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, etc..)
i think it would change the world dramatically to be honest :P
wow. that would be soo wierd. You never think of caffeine, tobacco and alcohol as drugs but they are!
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One year for NYE celebrations my my group of friends (~15 people) decided not to do any drugs (alcohol included, though tobacco and caffeine were allowed). It was probably the worst NYE I've ever had but we all realised how reliant we were on alcohol to celebrate things. It was really eye opening but I don't recommend anyone does it, ever.
Personally I think all drugs should be sold in a phamarcy (incl. alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, etc.) and not sold outside of one (ie. can't pick up APAP/paracetamol in the supermarket). Before buying a drug you should have to complete a drug specific test (IE. for aspirin people should be aware not to give to adolescents, that it can cause kidney problems, the dose duration and redosing schedules, is not habit forming, et cetera).
Successful completion will be recorded centrally to a government independent body, you are identified by a unique code that cannot be traced back to unless you give your code to someone (some sort of medical ID?).
Failing a test will require you to re take it on another day.
I doubt this will ever happen. I mean when people get antibiotics they don't read the safety information that comes with it (like some you can't drink alcohol with, to keep taking the whole course even if you start to feel better). They don't take the whole course and start to get sick again. Or they take the whole course but don't rest for 3 full days (like in the case of a staph infection on the skin of your leg, you should rest for 3 days with leg elevated. Barely any do)
Sorry this post was a bit of a ramble (I accidentally took too much modafinil, which is pretty ironic considering the context of this post).
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The only drugs i think should be banned are all synthetic cannabinoids & the 25x-nbome drugs, once they get banned and the stocks run out, i doubt you will see them again, why waste good 2Cs to make that garbage.
It's sad that people will take that junk just because of its legality and price, regardless of the unknown and known risks.
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None. SR is indeed a free market respecting the rights of people to make their own choices, also on what drugs they use.
My personal rule is: let people decide what they want to do for themselves, as long as they do not harm others. We do not need big brother to control us.
this
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One year for NYE celebrations my my group of friends (~15 people) decided not to do any drugs (alcohol included, though tobacco and caffeine were allowed). It was probably the worst NYE I've ever had but we all realised how reliant we were on alcohol to celebrate things. It was really eye opening but I don't recommend anyone does it, ever.
Personally I think all drugs should be sold in a phamarcy (incl. alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, etc.) and not sold outside of one (ie. can't pick up APAP/paracetamol in the supermarket). Before buying a drug you should have to complete a drug specific test (IE. for aspirin people should be aware not to give to adolescents, that it can cause kidney problems, the dose duration and redosing schedules, is not habit forming, et cetera).
Successful completion will be recorded centrally to a government independent body, you are identified by a unique code that cannot be traced back to unless you give your code to someone (some sort of medical ID?).
Failing a test will require you to re take it on another day.
I doubt this will ever happen. I mean when people get antibiotics they don't read the safety information that comes with it (like some you can't drink alcohol with, to keep taking the whole course even if you start to feel better). They don't take the whole course and start to get sick again. Or they take the whole course but don't rest for 3 full days (like in the case of a staph infection on the skin of your leg, you should rest for 3 days with leg elevated. Barely any do)
Sorry this post was a bit of a ramble (I accidentally took too much modafinil, which is pretty ironic considering the context of this post).
when I was prescribed anti biotics I only took a few till i felt better and then saved it for the future and it really helps. I know this is against reconmendations and maybe my body won't produce it naturally now? sigh.....off too google i go.
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There is no need to ban any drugs. If there were no restrictions on drugs, people would use the good/less harmful ones, and ignore the harmful ones.
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NONE,
No products should be banned that only directly affects 1 person, it should be their choice to consume what they like.
If someone uses a product to deliberately harm someone else, that person should be punished, not everyone.
Just imagine if all drugs were legal and not heavily taxed........
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*disclaimer* didn't read every page but glanced over the first */disclaimer*
Some discuss having every drug legal. Personally, that is my opinion. From personal experience and the experiences of my comrades, illegality means nothing. If somebody wants a drug that can harm them, they'll get it. The difference then, is where they get their drugs. If they get them from the streets they are likely to get cuts and unreliable quality and all-around "dirty" shit. Not to mention, if we're talking about meth, heroin, or anything else someone might IV/IM, they're going to reuse or improperly use needles and hurt themselves in that way.
As much as I dislike a lot of what the government has its hands in, legalization of all drugs would lead to safe/healthy(as healthy as some drugs are) regulations that providers must meet. Additionally, I like the idea of mandatory education classes (and not bullshit "stay-clean" classes) that are geared towards whatever drug you want in on. You want to start doing heroin? Well first you got to take the general opiates class and provide proof you've been using lesser opiates for x length of time before upgrading (we can just piss test these people every time they come to class) and then you will be taught the dangers/advantages of each RoA as well as how to properly prepare your drug for IV/smoke/snorting, etc.
I feel a lot of questionable/less-known drugs (I'm looking at you, RCs) will fall by the wayside if everyone can access pharm-grade drugs to utilize at affordable prices (Why try that opiate RC that's been around for years when you can rely on using one that's been tested solidly for decades?)
Pipe dream? Yes. However, in short, I don't want to see any drug banned because banning anything, from weapons to drugs, is not an effective mode of prevention. If there are drugs that people shouldn't use, the best deterrent will be honest education discussing WHY those drugs should be avoided.
Cheers, and I hope I covered at least a little more than what's already been said in this thread,
Snoopish
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Synthetic Cannabis AKA Spice Drugs... JWH-018 ect ect.... All these shitty substances were invented in the first place, because Cannabis is illegal. I wouldn't even bury 'em in the ground, just burn 'em! >:(
I tend to agree with you (not that they should be banned but they are garbage).
Why bother when it's so very easy to just get the real thing? The synthetic's mess up your tolerance to cannabinoids as well, and i'm happy that I can smoke weed till the cows come home not having to worry about developing a tolerance to the point of non-effectiveness.
Synthetics have their place IMO. I find them very useful for tapering off weed when I'm taking breaks (keeps my appetite healthy), and they can provide a high that is qualitatively different than what THC and its relatives can give you (one particular blend makes life almost cartoonish in large enough doses, like borderline psychedelic). I also find no cross-tolerance issues between synthetics and real bud.
All that said they are an easy way to trigger panic attacks!
Man, if you take a break from weed, it's better be sober than smoking Synthetics... These substances are way much potent than THC and have way more side effects... some of my worst highs came from Synthetics... One time I smoked it and after about 10 minutes I had really strong sugar fall, my face turned white and I almost fainted :-[, unless my friend had made me a good ginger lemon tea with sugar :). It's just crap... You don't know how many people here in Israel, smoke that shit while in the army, because it's undetectable in urine test unlike THC.. Also I got 2 friends who smoke Synthetics just because it's more available than hash and weed. one of them smokes about 50 bowls of Synthetics everyday... :o It's horrible...
Keep your brain healthy and stay away from bad chemicals. Smoke weed ;)
Yeah, synthetic weed is bullshit. I get the impression that whatever new drug appears & then gets banned, someone will synthesize some new shit & market it - just like molecular LEGOs.
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Synthetic Cannabis AKA Spice Drugs... JWH-018 ect ect.... All these shitty substances were invented in the first place, because Cannabis is illegal. I wouldn't even bury 'em in the ground, just burn 'em! >:(
I tend to agree with you (not that they should be banned but they are garbage).
Why bother when it's so very easy to just get the real thing? The synthetic's mess up your tolerance to cannabinoids as well, and i'm happy that I can smoke weed till the cows come home not having to worry about developing a tolerance to the point of non-effectiveness.
Synthetics have their place IMO. I find them very useful for tapering off weed when I'm taking breaks (keeps my appetite healthy), and they can provide a high that is qualitatively different than what THC and its relatives can give you (one particular blend makes life almost cartoonish in large enough doses, like borderline psychedelic). I also find no cross-tolerance issues between synthetics and real bud.
All that said they are an easy way to trigger panic attacks!
Man, if you take a break from weed, it's better be sober than smoking Synthetics... These substances are way much potent than THC and have way more side effects... some of my worst highs came from Synthetics... One time I smoked it and after about 10 minutes I had really strong sugar fall, my face turned white and I almost fainted :-[, unless my friend had made me a good ginger lemon tea with sugar :). It's just crap... You don't know how many people here in Israel, smoke that shit while in the army, because it's undetectable in urine test unlike THC.. Also I got 2 friends who smoke Synthetics just because it's more available than hash and weed. one of them smokes about 50 bowls of Synthetics everyday... :o It's horrible...
Keep your brain healthy and stay away from bad chemicals. Smoke weed ;)
Yeah, synthetic weed is bullshit. I get the impression that whatever new drug appears & then gets banned, someone will synthesize some new shit & market it - just like molecular LEGOs.
That's why making drugs illegal is so dangerous, these designer drug don't usually go through proper controls and testing. I'm sure a majority of drug deaths are caused by uneven strengths and adulterants mixed into them.
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ban alcohol, nicotine
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I am probably going to piss off some people with this one, but crystal meth and scopolamine would be the primary two that come to mind for me!
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every drug should be banned that I'm not currently doing because they're bad. when I move on on some different drug it should be legalized because it's okay and the drugs I stobbed doing should be banned because they're bad.
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Most drugs should be legal, however people should be required to take precaution, and information classes on their drug of choice. Plus a mental health checkout for the harder drugs. :-\ Wouldn't want people to take too much of something for the wrong reason...Although scopolamine scares me...
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I don't think any drugs should be band all should be legal, but at the same time I think we would be better off without without heroin and alcohol but that's only because I have had family who have been addicted to both, but at the same time their are millions who can enjoy them and be responsible with their drug use ???
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I guess it's hard to answer this question pragmatically without going in circles. E.g. - ban x substance because of z reason -> good for this and that reason -> prohibition doesn't work. I still think it's important to talk about though. So here's what I think:
I can respect and understand the view that no, or very few drugs and substances should be banned on the basis of individual liberties. The idea that you can take what you want, fuck yourself up, and it's your fault, but if you use it to fuck with yourself then you should be dealt with accordingly.
However I'm of the view that very few people's bodies are theirs to fuck up. That sounds weird, but let me explain. The legalization of some heavy duty shit, like ice, bromo-dragonfly or heroin means that I could have access to it. From this point of view I could try and take these drugs and thus I could become addicted and fuck my life up (I also might not get to this extreme, but, let's just say that I do because these are highly addictive substances I think, although correct me if I'm wrong, and the propensity for me and others to get addicted is real). Okay so I do that, but I'm important to how family functions from all things including their housing situation, welfare, happiness etc., my job, my friends and I dare say, my community and society. As such my body isn't really 'mine' to fuck up, and I believe that very few people's bodies are too. I've spent time in communities where substance abuse is a real problem - and it's always the stuff that is legal and easy to obtain. People smoke weed every now and then , and that's hardly a problem.
I don't really know what I think should be banned in any exhaustive sense. All I can say is that I know what I feel shouldn't be - Cannabis, mushrooms, low dose LSD, salvia divinorum, peyote, and other entheogens with positive spiritual benefits.
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No drugs should be illegal. In my opinion the more dangerous a drug is the more reasons to legalize and regulate it. Not saying all drugs should be easy to get a hold of, but it should be possible to get it legal somehow
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No regulations on any substance, fuck the man!
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Nothing should be banned, your body is your temple and your own business what you do with it, but i were to ban any substance id ban tobacco, its murdering shit, im so happy i never started, in saying that i smoke weed like a fucking trooper!.....although its probably the radiation they put on it that kills people not the tobacco itself. Its a crazy world.
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AND!
Although ya couldn't ban it but ixing Benzos + Alcohol just shouldn't be allowed, its sheer lunacy (not "oh look at that field full of all those beautiful unicorns!!!" fun kinda lunacy)... you turn into, well errrr basically, the devil from south park, on crack, and your runing very low on crack!
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hmmm didn't expect to see this asked here! And the many answers show many people have interesting pov's almost spanning the complete range from 'none' to 'ban grass' I must say I'm surprised with the advocates for banning stuff, tho! That's the classic double standards used by TPTB to start the WoD's
please pardon my copypasta...it was the only way I could answer :P
personally I would ban none, but insist on some type of short class to educate you about the drug you wish to buy, which, after completing you would be given a card for that drug, similar to a MM card, saying you were "qualified" to have it ;D
. And maybe throw in the requirement for a blood test once a year to screen for communicable diseases.
Pentobarbital (large quanties) - People seem to only be seeking this out as a means to commit suicide, which i'd rather not see / hear of. Smaller quantities fine, but 9+ grams they are trying to off themselves. It's your choice if you choose that path, I just don't think SR should be the conduit through which you can obtain the means to do so (commit suicide).
One person has been trying to seek out Hydrogen Cyanide, Tetradotoxin, Ricin and pure Nicotine probably other's too. Those I don't consider drugs at all, but poison with no other use then to cause harm/death.
Wow! I don't understand why they would not just order some #4 heroin ... a gram would do the trick for most people!
In fact this just how how ignorant many people are about drugs in general, from alcohol to heroin, nicotine to THC,
and their apathy when it comes to actively learning about them, even when the information they seek is just a google search away, is amazing.
Often they'd prefer to listen to their friends 'misinformation' rather than learn otherwise
Possibly becoz when you're a teenager admitting you are ignorant about things like drugs is almost like asking how do people have babies! So pretending you know and acting cool is far more important than actually knowing.
Which is how people end up making ignorant comments like "all research chemicals are useless" . . . wtf? ALL drugs were at one time a 'research chemical' ... People spouting parroted platitudes like this, is exactly what I'm talking about!
Making a comment like that comes from their social conditioning,
I'm sure in the circles comments such as this are the norm, everyone would be going "ooh yeah, all Research chems are useless" (while off their chops on mdpv) which they will tell you "isn't a research chemical, becoz it's, like, well it's like REALLY well known, it's a proper drug and all! everyone knows that! It's not like bath salts or anything.....hey babe, where'd you put the plant food?" ahh the lulz
But it's this ignorance which causes problems when people take a drug they know sweet fuck all about.
I believe if drugs were legal and openly discussed, the myths about drugs would quickly be dispelled and the general level of knowledge about drugs of all types would improve significantly. If a buyer could rest assured what they are buying IS exactly as described, then many of the problems coming from innappropriate dosing would be avoided, and even drugs like PMA and the bromo dragonflies would be legal, but with a BIG warning on the pack about the potential effects.
Knowledge is power...power against 'completely unexpected shit happening' and fuckin up your day/night/life! The more you know about what to 'expect' and how to deal with any 'negative effects',, the safer you are.
Knowing everything you NEED to know to safely take drugs recreationally is not a lot of information, you could easily learn most of it in a week of quality classes on the topic.
"The only substance and scene that I've dealt with that was truly horrific was meth, crack takes a 2nd even. I still wouldn't want it banned, everything can serve a purpose (even if it's just getting lit) in moderation. I'd rather see the idiots that abuse the substances banned from life before you ban the substance."
Yeah, and alcoholism and compulsive gambling to name a few, are just as fucked!
"I believe most drugs should be legalized. However I think that any drug that has multiple cases of proven violent behavior should be banned. (looking at you PCP)
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Then you'd have to be looking at alcohol and meth too.....no? although here's more disinfo..."I don't see any way you could use meth responsibly. A single dose of it can make you highly addicted"
WTF? how can you say that? just coz a wiki article does? (does it? I didn't read it) seriously, that would be funny ifit wasn't so sad! And I don't really have much time in general for speed in any of it's incarnations, but comments like this are again exactly what I'm talking about!
One, or even five doses of methamphetamine WOULD NOT get one 'addicted' in ANY way other than some kind of psychological yearning.
It is NOT possible to label a person an "addict" after ONE FUCKIN DOSE! or even a week of constant use! You 'may' be able to label them 'dependant', but that is all!!
Seriously bro, I was completely on your side until that comment! FFS mate that's shockingly uninformed and poorly thought out, as I've pointed out! wow!
I think this guy sums this problem up perfectly...it's called being 'holier than thou'! lol!
"every drug should be banned that I'm not currently doing because they're bad. when I move on on some different drug it should be legalized because it's okay and the drugs I stobbed doing should be banned because they're bad"
"But I can at least try to remain in my insulated little bubble with unicorns and rainbows" :D 8)
lol sounds so colorfully comfy and delightfully filled with denial . . . what a place! Can I come over to see the unicorns?
"I think marijuana should be banned. I've heard of a guy who snorted 3 marijuanas and died of a heart attack."
LMAO THREE!!! wow! I had a friend who shot up a marijuana 'buddha stick' I believe it is called, and died :o!
A (famous "ita b") journalist downunder looked at a marijuana (could have been 2 but) and smelled the smoke...and went on a 3 DAY nightmare trip!
"I am always in for a little havoc, ban nicotine and alcohol and see the world collapse around you in two days. Imagine your white collar, well-groomed neighbor break bad for a pack of cigarettes... I think that would come pretty close to a zombie apocalypse *walks off to sharpen the edges of his spade*"
Yeah probably...and imagine all the dogs that woould escape after their masters go temporarally mad and run off in search of a nico fix?
The dogs would form packs and start prowling the city like in other countries of the world...but these would be big healthy dogs on the loose .... "dogs gone wild" so to speak! There's a LOT of dogs in suburban Oz, let alone the states!
Having seen packs of feral dogs in the bush and the prey they take down, people would be a tasty size when their 'inner wolf' comes out, although I reckon there'd be some doggie canabalism before that . . . with the little lap dogs gettin snacked on when they get too fuckin noisy.
bromodragonflies and the likes, maybe PMA, can be too intense for most people BUT what really matters is that people both know about what they are taking, and then, actually get the drug they want, in an 'appropriate' form and dose, whatever that may be for them, as we all have preferences for our DOC
"I just dream of the day when you can walk into a CVS and buy a bottle of Generic Diazapam like you can buy some advil or heartburn medication. Or some antibiotics, or whatever. If they were quality controlled and properly labeled I am sure everything would be just fine!"
A fantastic sci fi author name Ursula K Le Guin wrote a great book called The Lathe of Heaven, which starts of with in a world like this with a dude abusing "pharm cards" at the ADM (auto Drug machine!) and is getting too much speed, so they send around a friendly psychiatrist to check him out, and so the story begins about a man who has dreams that sometimes come true irl :o
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I hope no one disagrees with me, but I've tried meth once with a friend, and just about had a nervous breakdown. They say "Meth, not even once", but once was enough to keep me away from it for a life time.
I'm sure there are other drugs that have a more pleasant high associated with it. Also, some of those before/after pics of meth addicts scare the shit out of me.
I'm sure, with moderation, meth could be fun, maybe; but to me, I couldn't care less if meth was banned.
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Banning any drug is an idealistic and unrealistic stance. Just as censorship can never work the way those censoring want it to, banning drugs will never work the way the banners want it to.
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Banning any drug is an idealistic and unrealistic stance. Just as censorship can never work the way those censoring want it to, banning drugs will never work the way the banners want it to.
Solid assertion and said briefly which is something I rarely achieve. In short, prohibition never leads to desired results. Even if the government wanted to regulate certain substances, controlling them is a much more effective method than outright banning them. Those with the means and the desire will find what they want regardless of rules.
Cheers
Snoopish
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I would ban caffeine, simply because fuck everything about everyone everywhere...watch the world burn because people cant function legally anymore in the morning and what not.
except all of you fine fellas, because we have a caffeine section :P
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Weed because I have lost too many friends to overdoses on that shit
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An excellent quote on this subject came from a convict in a maximum security prison which goes something like this:
"In prison you could get ANY drug you wanted. If you didn't go in with an addiction, you went out with one. Now, if you can't control the flow of illegal drugs in a maximum security prison where no one has a bit of privacy, how can you hope to control them in a free society?"
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i'd like to see tobacco very gradually phased out. much like how they keep raising the pension age so that every year. this is coming from someone who smoked for 8 years, quit for almost a year, started again then stopped then started again etc etc. i don't like paying tax for drugs it feels unnatural. also tobacco as a drug doesn't really do much except put cash in the pockets of govt and most likely underpaid virginian farmers. the (shocking to some)problem is the government don't really want people to stop smoking.
When it comes to cigarette sales, the government is the main player, not the tobacco industry. Around 85% of the cost of a packet of cigarettes is tax and goes to the Treasury. In essence, you are purchasing your favourite pack of cigarettes directly from the government. The tobacco industry’s cut is only around 10% to 15%.
Total income from tobacco sales is approx. £14bn
The Treasury receives approx. £12bn through revenue
The tobacco industry receives approx £2bn through sales
Cost of treating smokers on NHS is estimated to be £5bn per year.
Pensions and support savings is estimated at £10bn per year (smokers dying early)
The average life expectancy for a non-smoker is 77.7 years for a man and 81.9 years for women. For smokers, life expectancy is reduced to 64.5 year for a man and 67.5 years for a woman.
Tobacco smokers who work their whole lives paying tax on their salaries and on cigarettes contribute to the Treasury funds, but will not live long enough to claim state pension for very long, if at all. That’s a win-win situation for the government.
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Absolutely none.
Stop liking what I don't like: The Thread
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sugar is America's biggest drug. start with that drug.
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You can kill someone with a bat or commit suicide by hanging yourself so banning certain drugs is not going stop suicide or murder. Sadistic sexual predators will also continue to do horrible things even if there weren't drugs around.
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Ketamin
Krokodil
Jenkem
Datura
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Drugs with absolutely no recreational value ie drugs meant to harm yourself or harm other people. Like pure Cyanide powder
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Drugs with absolutely no recreational value ie drugs meant to harm yourself or harm other people. Like pure Cyanide powder
Is it even a drug then? I think it'd have to have recreational or medicinal value to be a drug in the first place?
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sugar is America's biggest drug. start with that drug.
+1 for speaking the truth. :)
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sugar is America's biggest drug. start with that drug.
+1 for speaking the truth. :)
It ain't even sugar now, just that fucking corn syrup. :(
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sugar is America's biggest drug. start with that drug.
+1 for speaking the truth. :)
It ain't even sugar now, just that fucking corn syrup. :(
very true... and that's even worse for you!
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Who ever said weed, you need to get better connects or stop smoking to much of the wrong strain for the wrong environments.
I was going to say alcohol thinking I would be the only one to think this but looks like there are a few that beat me to it, the stuff is evil, cant actually believe its legal when you think about it logically.
Imagine if alcohol were to be discovered right now in this day and age but instead of drinking it lets say you had to smoke it but with exactly the same effects, rage, anger, false sense of confidence, drowsy, fighting, vomiting, stomach pains, etc it would be banned and made into a class A(schedule 1) no in fact it would be above class A the government would have to give its own separate category.
If cannabis were to be discovered right now it would be classed as a wonder drug sent from above, such a fucked up cruel world were living inn right now, but don't worry change is happening faster than I could of ever imagined.
If you love your weed make sure you do her justice and become a little bit of an activist, don't let the uneducated and brainwashed slate her any more, don't let them get to you either, just calmly and confidently explain to people who slander weed the truth and the facts, knowledge is your weapon you must arm yourself to the hills, its only a matter of time before cannabis is legal world wide, trust me on this one.
The Dutch have the right idea classing alcohol as a hard drug and not having it as a separate matter.
Don't get me wrong I used to drink with the best of them but out of all the drugs I have done this is by far the worst.
Give me a bag of Premium weed and block of lovely hash and I'm happy, its all I need these days :)
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CLEARNET WARNING ** *
www.foxnews.com/health/2013/03/20/sugary-drinks-linked-to-180000-deaths-worldwide-452398939
AND how many deaths from Marijuana - 0
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AND how many deaths from Marijuana - 0
And zero from psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, DMT, and peyote/mescaline.
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I have never tried methamphetamine but I have tried heroin and crack cocaine a couple of times. Heroin takes a while to get addicted to (I didn't get that far) but with crack the addiction instant (at least it was for me). I could never refuse a crack pipe, but I don't see my crack-addicted mates anymore. Problem solved.
Don't try crack. Seriously.
While I wouldn't wish for any drug to be banned, the world would probably be a better place if some of them weren't invented in the first place.
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AND how many deaths from Marijuana - 0
and my psychiatrist has told me of committing several young people to nursing homes because of getting perma-fried on the *legal* smoking blends that are out on the shelves in the US these days. people that cannot function anymore. not people that freaked out because they don't know what to expect and have never been that fucked up before.
if weed wasn't illegal, the JWH's would have never been so popularized. by banning that generation of synthanoids we get this shit out there that's actually doing harm and closing the loop of the self fulfilling prophecy. the war on drugs created that monster and is responsible for a lot of damage that never ever came from smoking good weed or even that DIRT.
I'm not a fan of MDPV or Aminorex or some of those instant psychosis inducing stims, tho. and i'm glad "bath salts" are mostly off the shelves. people had no idea what they were taking
banning drugs doesn't work, hopefully education can help
sex education is proven to decrease STD spread and unwanted pregnancies
abstinance based "education" just makes that shit worse
when are they going to start real drug education for young adults, you know, the ones that do the most stupid shit on drugs?
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SSRI's like efforex, they are horrible and cause so many bad side effects while not helping at all.
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SSRI's like efforex, they are horrible and cause so many bad side effects while not helping at all.
Unless you NEED a reuptake inhibitory before you actually have a mental condton (and't don't just tell me o yeah bro I know how bad depression is just because you had a really bad day once. Iit's a very real disease with very real and very NON-CLICHE symptom's. Yeah crying is a symptom, but so are a dozen other things that don't even sound like depresson at all). I hate it when ppl tell me they know what depression is like. NO YOU DON'T, you don't have it !!! Same is true for migranes. Maybe you did how a terrible headache once, but that;s not a migraine !!
Anyways, point is that some of these anti-depresant's actually DO HELP people who actually have the disease. It can take a while for some to find the one that works for them, and some sadly might not find an effective reuptae inhibitor..
Luckily after playing around with a dozen I found that buproprion (Welbutrin) actually made a marked change n my mood and behavior. I am so grateful I found it, because I know now that if I miss 2 or more doses that my mentally .goes back to exactly the same it was like before taking buprorion and it's so ridiculously .... let'a just say i'd prefer to take my meds :)
People say these anti-depressant's are dangerous because they ... increase suicide rate for example. Well in that case, the victin already sincerely and fully wanted to commit suicide. It's that depression is so powerful it can make you not even have the will to leave your own bed, at any time. Of course if all of a sudden a medicine is starting to work to treat the symptoms of your depression, then if being bed ridden and believing your incapable of doing anything that are going to be reduced, and you'll find yourself finally capable of committing suicide. It's not the anti-deperssant, it's the intent of the person.
Problem is the doctor's who prescribe anti-depressan't like candy. For god sakes they'll write you a prescription on your FIRST visit with them !!! These anti-depressant's require at least a few appointment's of getting to know you, firstly to get to know if you actually have disease depression or if you've just been having a hard time with something personal.
It just bother's me a hell of a lot that a majority of people shouting out against anti depressant's don't even have depression, or they use(d) a GP to prescribe them anti-depressant's instead of visiting a psychiatrist a half dozen times before they even put chemical treatment's (SSRI[s, trcyclycics, etc.) on the table.
I agree with you though, the thing about SSRI's, (SN/DRI)'s* and other receptor type reuptake inhibitor is that their presence will completely kill, or prevent the enactogenic effect's of drugs like 2C's, LSD and even shrooms (:( ) and entheogenic effects from like MDMA.
*SN/DRI meanin Selective Norepinephrne / Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitor which both wellbutrin and effexor are. they focus more on the other 2 for people having unacceptable side effects with SSRIw like paxil).
I'll tell ya at least these drugs don't inhibit MXE trip though. Wonder if these anti-depressant's would block ketamine considering its structural similarity to MXE?
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Read the WHOLE thread. These responses are interesting. I'm with the small government crowd. Except I'd take it a step further:
NO regulation of any kind for any drug or pharmaceutical or chemical. Initially, this would probably result in a few deaths of idiots or (sadder) the unattended children of idiots.
But think of it this way: what if, for the last 100 years, instead of being fed disinformation (about recreational drugs) or propaganda and paid advertizements (about pharmecuticals and coffee and cigs and booze, etc) the people of the world would have had 100 years to experiment on their own bodies as they saw fit. Scientists would have had 100 years to do real research about the effects of all of these psycoactive chemicals.
I would be willing to bet that if that had been the case for the last 100 years, the few deaths along the way from dumb-asses (or even just unfortunate accidents) would have been far outweighed by the massive advances in medicine, etc. Because, lets face it, the deaths from dumb-asses and unfortunate accidents happen anyway. Some could argue more, some could argue less.
Of course there's no way to know for sure, but imagine if 420 was legal for the last 100 years. I don't know how you "self medicate" with MJ, but I personally use it as a sleep aide, and appetite controller, an anti anxiety medication, a pain killer, and an alternative to alcohol. Now maybe my response to cannabis is only similar to 1% of the population. even if that's the case, that would be 1% of the entire world who has no need of oxi, benzos, ambien, booze, etc. That in itself would save some lives, I think. But get this: I actually know a LOT of people who would NEVER smoke weed as long as it's illegal but they would take a whole handful of pain killers or benzos AS LONG AS THE DOC ENDORSES IT. I know a few who have developed severe opiate addictions because of this.
Also, I've heard about things like meth being used for weight loss, ketamine being used as an anti depressant, opium being used as an anti Hershey squirts, etc, etc, etc. Maybe some of these applications are good, maybe not, but I feel like research into these possibilities is severely limited because so much of the population still feels the need to lower their voices to a whisper whenever anyone is discussing any compound that could possibly be used recreationaly.
I personally feel that almost all governments world wide (aside from the ones that barely exist - recovering from civil war or supper corrupt or whatever) have gotten WAY too big for their own good. The result is a generation of people who are dependent on their government. People were never meant to be dependent on their government. Unfortunately many of us DO need "big brother" telling us how to raise our kids and what to eat and what to do with our lives - but we shouldn't. it's time people started taking responsibility for themselves and their actions and their kids. I personally believe that until either (A) the government becomes much smaller and starts forcing people to reap the benefits and the consequences of their actions OR (B) a massive wave of people choose to do just that on their own, we are going to continue to feel more and more trapped by our society. I've only been adult enough to think about this stuff for about 15 years and I've felt a HUGE decrease in the amount of personal freedom I've felt. And the "squeeze" comes from a combination of societies "values" and and increase in government.
anyway. my 2 cents
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* MDPV can be used responsibly.
Don't I have rights or something? WTF socialists!