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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: quantaflux on September 07, 2012, 07:13 pm

Title: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: quantaflux on September 07, 2012, 07:13 pm
I was wondering if anyone that has taken MDMA for long, protracted periods of time has had any cognitive function decrease or anything like that? Suddenly i'm really worried about the neurotoxicity and doing permanent damage to my brain - am I just being paranoid?

There doesn't seem to be an agreement among scientists about whether it is damaging or it isn't, some studies claim causation where others say there was no change, etc, and most of it seems to have been done <10 years ago, is there anything more up to date?

Will crystal mdma be 'purer' and thus 'safer' than random E pills?
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 07, 2012, 07:35 pm
I believe your paranoia to be completely justified, although I have no specific science to back me up at the moment. But yes, although not physically addictive MDMA definitely does damage. How much damage practically speaking? I really have very little idea, but in relation to other popular substances its definitely one of the most harmful.  I have watched a documentary talking about 'serotonin depletion syndrome' in chronic MDMA users though.
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: gtgeorgz on September 07, 2012, 07:46 pm
There's so many contradicting story's and studies on MDMA damage its hard to know what to believe.
But if you're in the UK theirs a promising looking documentary coming up on channel 4 that's dedicated to finding out more about MDMA toxicity and damage.
have a lil' read: http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/groundbreaking-mdma-science-study-to-be-broadcast-on-channel-4
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: quantaflux on September 07, 2012, 09:36 pm
There's so many contradicting story's and studies on MDMA damage its hard to know what to believe.
But if you're in the UK theirs a promising looking documentary coming up on channel 4 that's dedicated to finding out more about MDMA toxicity and damage.
have a lil' read: http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/groundbreaking-mdma-science-study-to-be-broadcast-on-channel-4

I am in the UK, and this is awesome, but it doesn't seem like they're going to look at the toxicity effects, especially since it seems like it's going to be a one-off thing on people that don't regularly take it, not to mention that they are using only 80mg, but it's better than nothing I suppose. any idea when it airs?
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: gtgeorgz on September 07, 2012, 09:40 pm
Yeah mate, I'm sure it'll look into seasoned MDMA users though and compare them to people who don't use. But even then, the MDMA users will most likely be using other drugs so its not really fair. :-\ who knows though!
Just says sometime in the autumn buddy, I'll be watching for sure.
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: Snoopish on September 07, 2012, 09:57 pm
If anybody watches/can recap what they say in this story I'd be interested. I haven't strayed much further up than 100mg of MDMA (no redosing) so I'd like to hear about some human results that aren't being extrapolated from overdosing certain breeds of monkey or rats or whatever.

Cheers
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: gtgeorgz on September 07, 2012, 10:00 pm
Yeah will do mate, may need reminding though as it probably won't be on for a month or two!
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: sl1pknot on September 07, 2012, 10:11 pm
During periods of more frequent mdma use, yes I have noticed decreased cognitive functioning, but after ~1/2 to 1 week max I think it returns to baseline. I have a bit of a tolerance to mdma, and during the hangover afterwards I notice a decrease in my thinking and functioning abilities, but doesn't everyone? Granted if you are getting pretty fucked up off of 100mg then you have little to no tolerance and the negative aftereffects are less existant. So obviously moderation is key. Unless you have too many good raves to go to...

On another note I've heard and often wondered if alcohol increases mdma neurotoxicity...
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: Snoopish on September 07, 2012, 10:17 pm
During periods of more frequent mdma use, yes I have noticed decreased cognitive functioning, but after ~1/2 to 1 week max I think it returns to baseline. I have a bit of a tolerance to mdma, and during the hangover afterwards I notice a decrease in my thinking and functioning abilities, but doesn't everyone? Granted if you are getting pretty fucked up off of 100mg then you have little to no tolerance and the negative aftereffects are less existant. So obviously moderation is key. Unless you have too many good raves to go to...

On another note I've heard and often wondered if alcohol increases mdma neurotoxicity...

From the stories I've heard, liquor is a dangerous mix with MDMA regardless--so I avoid it. That said, there is probably a chemical precedent that would allow for increased neurotoxicity--I don't have enough chemistry background to say for certain off the top of my head but they both fuck up your brain in all kinds of (potentially fun) ways. 

What dosages are you using? Maybe we should set up a thread of people's MDMA dosaging with noticed after-effects? This is the harm-reduction section of SR after all.

Cheers!
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: TheBusiness on September 08, 2012, 03:04 am
Listen.. they've large MDMA doses to mice and then cut their brains open to see the effects. They do find axon damage in the brain probably caused by excess free radicals lingering after the expired serotonin.  They also observe down regulation of serotonin production.

Here are my tips ...

- preload with loads of Vitamin C and R-ALA to help clean up the free radicals
- space out your rolls
- get lots of sun, eat healthy etc to come back to baseline
- consider nootropics, particularly some kind of racetam to increase brain activity + protection.

Interestingly, one study showed reduced axon damage in the mice after preloading with sildenafil (viagra).
Title: Re: MDMA neurotoxicity/safety?
Post by: ianfleming on September 08, 2012, 12:02 pm
Quote
Interestingly, one study showed reduced axon damage in the mice after preloading with sildenafil (viagra).
sextacy as this is called, is very dangerous as it increases the chances for a heart attack and related cardiovascular damage.