Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: TSX on September 10, 2013, 08:15 pm
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I don't know anything about MDMA synthesis, but I was always wondering why there is these color difference from the brown look to almost transparent (100%) like ocean salt when both are suppose to have a purity of 80%+ from what the vendors are saying.
(even the size matches, it looks 100% the same, when I made noodels I had to smile and put my hand in the ocean salt)
Is the white stuff generally better? It seems that the brown stuff just has a lot of substances in it that are not MDMA, like waste that get's produced during the synthesis or washing? I also don't know anything about washing so I really don't know what I'm taking about right now.
I would assume that the brown, very dirty looking stuff hast a huge load of unwanted side effects?
Only had pills and white stuff in the past.
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It just has to do with the method the chemist used to make it, for the most part. I've had plenty of clear and dark stuff and to be honest both are just as good and just as clean. In fact, I get more worried about clear stuff because that can be M1 and that is pretty much what every local batch of mdma I see is.
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As far as I'm aware the light brown colour is what people like to see.
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This is a post originally made by some other member here. I unfortunately didn't save who wrote it as I just saved it for my self. Anyways props to him.
"The only method that uses Safrole is Merck. Both Shulgin methods use IsoSafrole.
Obviously there's a lot more to it than I am willing to explain here, but the best possible MDMA yields versus other salts comes from the Shulgin Method II.
"Brown Sand" is also known as the Shulgin Method I: (commonly synthesized in and sold out of Canada and Germany)
Refluxing Formic acid + N-methylformamide(NMF) and Piperonylmethylketone(PMK Oil) yields N-formyl-MDMA.
If then this is refluxed in concentrated hydrochloric acid and it is later made basic with sodium hydroxide, it yields crude MDMA.
The crude MDMA is finally extracted into diethyl ether, dissolved, and treated with hydrogen gas to produce a gelatinous brown precipitate of impure MDMA-hydrochloride.
The crude salt can then be dissolved in boiling methanol, and then added to chilled acetone to form a crystalline product.
Recrystallization yields fawn crystals(80%-82% MDMA) with a melting point of 147—148°C
"PMK White" is also known as the Shulgin Method II (Pretty much only comes from NL, and Belgium unless people are reselling):
Formamide + PMK refluxed at 190°C. The solution is made basic and extracted with diethyl ether.
The ethereal solution is then washed with dilute sulphuric acid, rinsed with water and finally dried over anhydrous sodium sulphate.
You would then reduce the diethyl ether to yield a clear yellow solution of N-formyl-MDA.
It is then added to diluted Lithium-Aluminium-Hydride(LAH) and further refluxed.
The excess LAH is decomposed by the addition of water and the resulting mixture should be filtered and the precipitate washed with diethyl ether.
The washings and the filtrate are then combined and extracted with dilute sulphuric acid.
The aqueous solution is then made alkaline with dilute sodium hydroxide and extracted with diethyl ether.
The solvent will evaporate to leave an amber oil of crude MDMA. (100% pure MDMA Freebase)
Base down in hydrochloric acid - Recrystallization yields crystals(84% MDMA) with a melting point of 149—150°C
Merck Method:
Involves the formation of MDPBP(from safrole) followed by reaction with methylamine. It produces White MDMA, but also produced MDPV analogues commonly known as "bath salts" ... Unless precautions and extra steps are taken, it is often that the crystalline product produced is riddled with contaminants and other active amphetamine salts."
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Interesting, now I have to check out the brown sand-like stuff just to see if there is a difference in the effects.
I always thought it was like a less professional production where the chemists just weren't that good. About the methylone, is there any way to distinguish between the two without a reagent/indicator?
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Interesting, now I have to check out the brown sand-like stuff just to see if there is a difference in the effects.
I always thought it was like a less professional production where the chemists just weren't that good. About the methylone, is there any way to distinguish between the two without a reagent/indicator?
Sorry for the late response.
Usually the brown sandy stuff tends to range from 60-70% in purity but they tend to have most of the safrole contamination which is pretty much carcinogenic poision. Best to wash it if possible.
The while/tan/beige tends to be the best quality and more clean of impurities.
However, the browner stuff tends to give the more amped up/energetic roll) while the cleaner stuff gives a more lovey dovey effect. Just from my personal experience.
Methylone is usually pure white crystalline powder most of the time. The effects hit quicker, way more speedy, hits the peak way faster and ends REAL short. if you pop to redose. Forget about it.
Edit: BTW because methylone is a byproduct of MDMA production some of them may have a clear tan color but usually it has absolutely no smell. So the real way to find out is try it out and feel the effects. It's really not that hard to find out what's what though.
Hope I helped.
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This study from '93 looks at byproducts that result from 3 of the common routes to MDMA used in clandestine chemistry.
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mdma.impurity.study.html
As I posted earlier in the thread on purple MDMA, pure MDMA/HCL should colorless and odorless. Anything else indicates the presence of impurities. In most cases, these are usually non-psychoactive, but potentially harmful. They are due to poorly washed/purified product.
I really don't think you can derive any meaningful assessment of "molly" from its color, other than to say that if it's not clear and odorless, it's not pure MDMA/HCL. It could still pack a punch though. Unfortunately, you may have something that is colorless and odorless that isn't MDMA/HCL. So without testing, it's impossible to know what you have.
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Edit: BTW because methylone is a byproduct of MDMA production some of them may have a clear tan color but usually it has absolutely no smell. So the real way to find out is try it out and feel the effects. It's really not that hard to find out what's what though.
Hope I helped.
uhm where did you get that information? by what route is methylone a byproduct?
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Edit: BTW because methylone is a byproduct of MDMA production some of them may have a clear tan color but usually it has absolutely no smell. So the real way to find out is try it out and feel the effects. It's really not that hard to find out what's what though.
Hope I helped.
uhm where did you get that information? by what route is methylone a byproduct?
I apologize if I'm wrong. I thought I read some where either here or some other forums that M1 and MDA is a byproduct created during the MDMA production. I'm not totally knowledgeable on that MDMA even though I have a pretty good experience with is. But I can definitely tell the difference between M1 and MDMA in terms of effects.
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This is a post originally made by some other member here. I unfortunately didn't save who wrote it as I just saved it for my self. Anyways props to him.
"The only method that uses Safrole is Merck. Both Shulgin methods use IsoSafrole.
Obviously there's a lot more to it than I am willing to explain here, but the best possible MDMA yields versus other salts comes from the Shulgin Method II.
"Brown Sand" is also known as the Shulgin Method I: (commonly synthesized in and sold out of Canada and Germany)
Refluxing Formic acid + N-methylformamide(NMF) and Piperonylmethylketone(PMK Oil) yields N-formyl-MDMA.
If then this is refluxed in concentrated hydrochloric acid and it is later made basic with sodium hydroxide, it yields crude MDMA.
The crude MDMA is finally extracted into diethyl ether, dissolved, and treated with hydrogen gas to produce a gelatinous brown precipitate of impure MDMA-hydrochloride.
The crude salt can then be dissolved in boiling methanol, and then added to chilled acetone to form a crystalline product.
Recrystallization yields fawn crystals(80%-82% MDMA) with a melting point of 147—148°C
"PMK White" is also known as the Shulgin Method II (Pretty much only comes from NL, and Belgium unless people are reselling):
Formamide + PMK refluxed at 190°C. The solution is made basic and extracted with diethyl ether.
The ethereal solution is then washed with dilute sulphuric acid, rinsed with water and finally dried over anhydrous sodium sulphate.
You would then reduce the diethyl ether to yield a clear yellow solution of N-formyl-MDA.
It is then added to diluted Lithium-Aluminium-Hydride(LAH) and further refluxed.
The excess LAH is decomposed by the addition of water and the resulting mixture should be filtered and the precipitate washed with diethyl ether.
The washings and the filtrate are then combined and extracted with dilute sulphuric acid.
The aqueous solution is then made alkaline with dilute sodium hydroxide and extracted with diethyl ether.
The solvent will evaporate to leave an amber oil of crude MDMA. (100% pure MDMA Freebase)
Base down in hydrochloric acid - Recrystallization yields crystals(84% MDMA) with a melting point of 149—150°C
Merck Method:
Involves the formation of MDPBP(from safrole) followed by reaction with methylamine. It produces White MDMA, but also produced MDPV analogues commonly known as "bath salts" ... Unless precautions and extra steps are taken, it is often that the crystalline product produced is riddled with contaminants and other active amphetamine salts."
Please don't perpetuate the myth that MDMA HCl is 84% pure. Adding the HCl doesn't change the purity, MDMA HCl and NOT MDMA Freebase is your target drug. That's the same thing as saying that Ketamine has a maximum purity of 86% because 14% of its weight HCl. Nobody ever says that, it's just plain wrong! MDMA HCl has a maximum purity of 100%, end of story.
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posting to find thread later on.
B0lixtrader nice post you saved there!
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Usually the brown sandy stuff tends to range from 60-70% in purity but they tend to have most of the safrole contamination which is pretty much carcinogenic poision. Best to wash it if possible.
The while/tan/beige tends to be the best quality and more clean of impurities.
However, the browner stuff tends to give the more amped up/energetic roll) while the cleaner stuff gives a more lovey dovey effect. Just from my personal experience.
That was very helpful for me, thanks. I'll stick with the super clean white stuff, even at really heroic doses I have only very few side effects I noticed.
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This is a post originally made by some other member here. I unfortunately didn't save who wrote it as I just saved it for my self. Anyways props to him.
"The only method that uses Safrole is Merck. Both Shulgin methods use IsoSafrole.
Obviously there's a lot more to it than I am willing to explain here, but the best possible MDMA yields versus other salts comes from the Shulgin Method II.
"Brown Sand" is also known as the Shulgin Method I: (commonly synthesized in and sold out of Canada and Germany)
Refluxing Formic acid + N-methylformamide(NMF) and Piperonylmethylketone(PMK Oil) yields N-formyl-MDMA.
If then this is refluxed in concentrated hydrochloric acid and it is later made basic with sodium hydroxide, it yields crude MDMA.
The crude MDMA is finally extracted into diethyl ether, dissolved, and treated with hydrogen gas to produce a gelatinous brown precipitate of impure MDMA-hydrochloride.
The crude salt can then be dissolved in boiling methanol, and then added to chilled acetone to form a crystalline product.
Recrystallization yields fawn crystals(80%-82% MDMA) with a melting point of 147—148°C
"PMK White" is also known as the Shulgin Method II (Pretty much only comes from NL, and Belgium unless people are reselling):
Formamide + PMK refluxed at 190°C. The solution is made basic and extracted with diethyl ether.
The ethereal solution is then washed with dilute sulphuric acid, rinsed with water and finally dried over anhydrous sodium sulphate.
You would then reduce the diethyl ether to yield a clear yellow solution of N-formyl-MDA.
It is then added to diluted Lithium-Aluminium-Hydride(LAH) and further refluxed.
The excess LAH is decomposed by the addition of water and the resulting mixture should be filtered and the precipitate washed with diethyl ether.
The washings and the filtrate are then combined and extracted with dilute sulphuric acid.
The aqueous solution is then made alkaline with dilute sodium hydroxide and extracted with diethyl ether.
The solvent will evaporate to leave an amber oil of crude MDMA. (100% pure MDMA Freebase)
Base down in hydrochloric acid - Recrystallization yields crystals(84% MDMA) with a melting point of 149—150°C
Merck Method:
Involves the formation of MDPBP(from safrole) followed by reaction with methylamine. It produces White MDMA, but also produced MDPV analogues commonly known as "bath salts" ... Unless precautions and extra steps are taken, it is often that the crystalline product produced is riddled with contaminants and other active amphetamine salts."
Please don't perpetuate the myth that MDMA HCl is 84% pure. Adding the HCl doesn't change the purity, MDMA HCl and NOT MDMA Freebase is your target drug. That's the same thing as saying that Ketamine has a maximum purity of 86% because 14% of its weight HCl. Nobody ever says that, it's just plain wrong! MDMA HCl has a maximum purity of 100%, end of story.
If you read the top of my post, I was quoting someone else who originally made that post. Not trying to spread wrong information but if it seemed so my apologies.
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Edit: BTW because methylone is a byproduct of MDMA production some of them may have a clear tan color but usually it has absolutely no smell. So the real way to find out is try it out and feel the effects. It's really not that hard to find out what's what though.
Hope I helped.
uhm where did you get that information? by what route is methylone a byproduct?
I apologize if I'm wrong. I thought I read some where either here or some other forums that M1 and MDA is a byproduct created during the MDMA production. I'm not totally knowledgeable on that MDMA even though I have a pretty good experience with is. But I can definitely tell the difference between M1 and MDMA in terms of effects.
Sorry to bump but methylone and MDA CAN be byproducts of MDMA synthesis.
The peracid oxidation of isosafrole creates isosafrole glycol that is reduced by sulfuric acid to MDP2P. A single hydroxyl group may be left if not fully reduced and if synthesis is continued with crude intermediate the resulting MDMA can indeed contain a renegade hydoxyl group, thus methylone may present itself.
MDA is a very common byproduct from reductive aminations of MDP2P.
Ex: Reductive amination using mercury nitrate and methylamine/nitromethane would yeild a ratio of MDA/MDMA
Just saying...it happens
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...also I think the halogen route to MDMA/MDA is prolly used much more often used in any part of the world than any of the routes mentioned in this thread thus fart. Ease of procurement, syntheses, and scalability yada yada yada. If sass oil is rich enough in safrole a halogen synthesis can proceed from beginning to end without a single distillation and give VERY brown product that is still very pure. Even cleaning up a brown product will still leave a less browner product.
Just saying...