Silk Road forums

Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: ZenAndTheArt on May 04, 2012, 12:13 am

Title: The Road Ahead?
Post by: ZenAndTheArt on May 04, 2012, 12:13 am
Firstly I feel Silk Road is an inevitable step in the right direction. It has given us back a freedom of choice that our governments are increasingly taking away from us, bit by bit, day by day. I strongly believe the internet is our greatest weapon in the fight for our freedoms. First it brought us greater freedom of information, then came a new social freedom and with that greater freedom of speech, now is the dawn of a greater personal freedom. A dawn heralded in by Silk Road.
Although I feel our freedom to buy and consume what we chose is inevitable, I think we all have the nagging feeling that Silk Road will be a fleeting utopia, to be enjoyed whilst it's here and remembered fondly when it's short life is over... Silk Road is the first step, on a long road. The start of a long journey, not the end of the road.
So, to the point of this post. When the coffee shops in Amsterdam first started selling weed, some were busted by the police. But when one shop was shut down another would spring up in its place. Then another, until they forced a change in policy and the weed laws were relaxed. (I think that's how it happened, sorry if that's not 100% accurate). So imagine for a second that Silk Road is brought down, DPR is splashed  across the media (14 year old computer hacker masterminds drug website from family computer whilst parents raise funds for their local church. "He was such a quiet boy..."). But before they declare it another victory in the war on drugs and DPR is sent down for the rest of his natural life, imagine DPR has left us one last present, his calling card. A copy of the Silk Road website (it doesn't have to be a copy of the code to run a site like Silk Road, although that would be good). Rather, the idea, the what, hows and whys.
I hope someone will take the baton and run with it. Another TWO black markets could take its place. The blueprint has been set!
Don't let the bastards win!
KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE!!!
Zen.
Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: blackend646 on May 04, 2012, 02:37 am
I read something recently about the pirate bay being compiled into less than 1gb of data that anyone can download and host a copy of. My thought is maybe silkroad can do the same thing, but I don't know if that makes any sense.

I don't think SR is going anywhere anytime soon, and if/when it does it won't be long before another site comes up.
Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: tootiefruitie on May 04, 2012, 02:54 am
BUT HOW WOULD WE FIND IT!
Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: Limetless on May 04, 2012, 09:23 pm
BUT HOW WOULD WE FIND IT!

Lol....people would find it in days if SR2 was just ready-to-go. DPR is a smart guy, my guess is that IF he were ever caught he has a back up plan set to go as soon this place got hit.
Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: Prawl42 on May 04, 2012, 09:33 pm
Aye, If SR would to fall the community would not. It would Simply move to a new home. it could be a bit fuzzy for a few months but would be back on its feet eventually :)
Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: lostintime on May 06, 2012, 02:17 pm
which is why the whole "war on drugs" is just a way to fill prisons. Long Live Silk Road......ACAB!
Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: philter3 on May 06, 2012, 04:06 pm
OK.. here is something to think about.. and I'd like the wits (Like Pine and Kmfdmwtifshisname... the whizbang computer/security dude) that are sharper than mine to ponder on it.

I'm planning to vend, I've got my crops, my biz plan, all moving right. I've got my .onion for product portfolio, window shopping for peeps but they buy on SR. The escrow and resolution system... as a vendor. that's going to make me SOOO much money (trust + anonymity!! brilliant!).

If S.R. goes down for good.. if everybody has prepped right what we the community will lose is the joint escrow. All the good vendors will have their own .onion's. Maybe some of them will band together and have "Onion Rings" of little vendor sites.
 But they won't have a Fucking ESCROW system.

So everyone will be FE or somebody will have to be the Bagman.. i.e. play DPR's role. How can I be trusted to play Bagman on my own .Onion? That's horseshit. That's the point to escrow.. I don't have the BTC, YOU don't have the BTC.. HE has the BTC and once you get your shit THEN he gives it to me.

 Is there  theoretically a method whereby a computer program can act as the escrow agent for the BTC to the satisfaction  of the vendor and buyer?
  BTC are basically information (suitably and subtly hashed). Wallets can be embedded in programs and electronic coded versions of contracts.
  I thought.. well someone could transfer money to an escrow program.. and from that point on.. the only place it could go is either the vendors wallet (if the buyer presses the OK) button.. or it "auto-finalizes" into a "you both are screwed" and gives the money to the Tor Networks or other suitable charity. This is the only way I can think of to have escrow protection without a suitable human agent (like Sr/DPR) being the bagman. Is there a way an electronic escrow program (coded open source, inspected etc.) could be more flexible that this? If so how?
  Any Onion Ring that replaces Silk Road will be different without the power of truthful, honest and effective escrow. Scammers would have a FIELD DAY.
  We need our inhouse boffins thinking about this. I grow mushies, and run businesses.. I don't write code. But I see functional relationships like it's reflexive.
 
 tl;dr We need a theoretical framework for non-human escrow comnputer programs if SR's community is to exist if SR central ever goes down.  We gotta have a properly pre-cooked Onion Ring waiting in the freezer!!
Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: philter3 on May 06, 2012, 05:37 pm
Sadly my notes/flow-chart can't be copied and pasted to a text box. But here is the general gist...

This scheme requires
 1.Both people have GPG
 2. They use a address verification "dummy" shipment
 3. There is DCN on the actual product shipment.

New Seller      New Buyer

Agreement to Transact

Escrow Program is Opened.
Seller and Buyer Encrypt a Given Code with their Privkeys
and Give their pubkeys to the escrow program

Escrow Program Decrypts Code using given Pubkeys.
Accepts Relationship as True
(IF keys do not match.. Program Exits).

Buyer Encrypts Their Address and inputs it into the Escrow Program

Seller Sends Test Package to Decrypted Address shown in Escrow Program
. Enters Verification Code (hidden in package) in Escrow Program

Time Elapses

Buyer Does not Enter Verification Code  --> Program Exits

Buyer Does enter Verification Code --> Escrow Continues

Buyer place order with seller using address in Escrow Program
Deposits BTC in Escrow Wallet.

Seller Packs and Ships Order.. Markes "In Transit" in Escrow Program

If no response from Buyer for X number of days (10? 15? 30?) Escrow
Program Auto-finalizes and deposits BTC in Seller's wallet.

If at any time Buyer hits "resolution" button in the Escrow Program
the clock stops.

If Buyer hits "Finalize" the Escrow deposits BTC in Seller's Wallet.


If Buyer and Seller are in Resolution they may both agree to hit
"Split" for a 50/50 refund. If one or neither hit "split", or the
customer does not hit "Finalize"... and the transaction is in
"Resolve" after 30/60 days then the BTC are deposited in the wallet of Tor Networks
or other charities.

Some ideas.. can DCNs be loaded via machine? I.e. have the Escrow
Program check a DCN? If so.. then between a loadable DCN, a confirmed
address from the Buyer, and the ability to "nuke" the BTCs and send
them to charity this seems like plenty of leverage for buyers.

Title: Re: The Road Ahead?
Post by: Fred Flintstone on May 07, 2012, 11:49 pm
Sadly my notes/flow-chart can't be copied and pasted to a text box. But here is the general gist...

This scheme requires
 1.Both people have GPG
 2. They use a address verification "dummy" shipment
 3. There is DCN on the actual product shipment.

New Seller      New Buyer

Agreement to Transact

Escrow Program is Opened.
Seller and Buyer Encrypt a Given Code with their Privkeys
and Give their pubkeys to the escrow program

Escrow Program Decrypts Code using given Pubkeys.
Accepts Relationship as True
(IF keys do not match.. Program Exits).

Buyer Encrypts Their Address and inputs it into the Escrow Program

Seller Sends Test Package to Decrypted Address shown in Escrow Program
. Enters Verification Code (hidden in package) in Escrow Program

Time Elapses

Buyer Does not Enter Verification Code  --> Program Exits

Buyer Does enter Verification Code --> Escrow Continues

Buyer place order with seller using address in Escrow Program
Deposits BTC in Escrow Wallet.

Seller Packs and Ships Order.. Markes "In Transit" in Escrow Program

If no response from Buyer for X number of days (10? 15? 30?) Escrow
Program Auto-finalizes and deposits BTC in Seller's wallet.

If at any time Buyer hits "resolution" button in the Escrow Program
the clock stops.

If Buyer hits "Finalize" the Escrow deposits BTC in Seller's Wallet.


If Buyer and Seller are in Resolution they may both agree to hit
"Split" for a 50/50 refund. If one or neither hit "split", or the
customer does not hit "Finalize"... and the transaction is in
"Resolve" after 30/60 days then the BTC are deposited in the wallet of Tor Networks
or other charities.

Some ideas.. can DCNs be loaded via machine? I.e. have the Escrow
Program check a DCN? If so.. then between a loadable DCN, a confirmed
address from the Buyer, and the ability to "nuke" the BTCs and send
them to charity this seems like plenty of leverage for buyers.



+1

That is genius! I had essentially the same basic idea but you did a great job fleshing out the details.

I have a few ideas: This automated escrow system would be safest if the buyer's address was in no way connected to or sent through the escrow system and was solely there to transfer btc from one address to another. This is in case of a future worst possible scenario - if the escrow system was ever infiltrated and all the messages/information was somehow decrypted, the only information they would have is the transfer of btc from one address to another.

Using other methods to send the seller your address which are in no way connected to the automated escrow system would turn a single system into fragments which would be impossible to ever connect.

I imagine:

1) The buyers/sellers decide on a deal in some marketplace forum (A)

2) The buyer and seller then use the automated escrow system (B), which incorporates some safe form of encryption - public/private PGP keys or whatever (I am not very knowledgeable on this stuff, but it appears that philter3 is.) This escrow system would have to show the seller that the buyer's funds are in fact deposited. Also, the escrow system should ideally protect from theft by whoever is running the system. The host should not have personal control over the actual btc, thus removing the risk of them stealing the funds. The service could just charge a small fee or % of the sale for each transaction.

3) The seller sends the buyer his PGP encrypted address from yet another source (C), such as torPM, privnote, whatever is agreed upon

4) When buyer receives product, funds are released from the escrow system (B) to the seller's btc address.

5) Some sort of feedback system is essential, and I have yet to hypothesize a feedback system which does not tie together (A), (B) and (C)

My goal in creating all these disjointed services is to turn a single operation (like SR) into a network so complicated that it would be impossible to connect and therefore impossible to bring down or prove anything in a court. If there were multiple marketplaces (As) using multiple automated btc escrow systems (Bs) and multiple methods of delivering the seller's PGP encrypted address (Cs) then even if LE or whoever obtained all your information from any one of those 3 services, they would have no way of using the information unless they had access to the other two services.

With A, B and C all completely separate and independent, trying to bring the system down would be next to impossible so long as none of the independent systems have any information which, if compromised, would point to your accounts on the other systems.

Example: Fred Flintstone's account on the marketplace he uses (A) is compromised. So long as my compromised marketplace account (A) doesn't give any information regarding my btc exchange account (B) or the account I use to send my PGP encrypted address (C) then they have nothing!

This would also turn a monopoly (SR) into a competitive marketplace, where various markets (As) are trying to outdo each other, creating a greater incentive to improve, innovate and bring down prices. 

Does this show any semblance to rational thought? or am I just rambling due to the adderall I took earlier?

One of the major drawbacks I see to turning this stimulant-induced delusional idea into a reality is the feedback system - how can feedback be reported without compromising the