Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: 7136214bradd on June 21, 2012, 03:35 am

Title: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: 7136214bradd on June 21, 2012, 03:35 am
What exactly are their incentives not to keep this information?  Obviously this information is conveyed through SR and it is supposed to be deleted when transactions are completed, but why would vendors not want to keep addresses around in case the worse happened?  Surely they would want to have at least some leverage with LE if something bad happened to them, and it would be incredibly easy to keep an otherwise secure list of each address they'd shipped to.  Plus, the buyers would never have any way to find out if this was going on.  Theoretically, there is no way to tell whether any vendor is hanging on to your address.  Are there any incentives for vendors to discard addresses after each and every purchase?
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: msft1 on June 21, 2012, 03:51 am
What exactly are their incentives not to keep this information?  Obviously this information is conveyed through SR and it is supposed to be deleted when transactions are completed, but why would vendors not want to keep addresses around in case the worse happened?  Surely they would want to have at least some leverage with LE if something bad happened to them, and it would be incredibly easy to keep an otherwise secure list of each address they'd shipped to.  Plus, the buyers would never have any way to find out if this was going on.  Theoretically, there is no way to tell whether any vendor is hanging on to your address.  Are there any incentives for vendors to discard addresses after each and every purchase?

Some incentives to NOT keep, just off the top of my head:

* Administrative cost (the time to collect and store this information securely)
* Risks of having it lost or stolen or used against you by LE
* Usefullness of this information (as a vendor I can't find it very useful. Bitcoins are useful; past receipt aren't)
* Finally, this information isn't very useful because nobody can prove that you've ordered something from them just because they have your name and address.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: blackend646 on June 21, 2012, 03:53 am
I suppose that's just one of the many gambles that come with shopping here. I seriously doubt a drug dealer having your address written down is enough evidence for the police to do anything. In a hypothetical scenario where a vendor gets busted and the fuzz knocks on your door, you just refuse to answer their questions without a lawyer present and the whole thing should go away.

I never went to law school and my knowledge about this sort of shit is limited but I really don't see how a dealer having your address written would be worth anything in court.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Christy Nugs on June 21, 2012, 07:08 am
I dont keep anything!! why would I help build a case against myself?
I have a small webber grill that burns all my paper 4-5 times a week - dcn's addys etc.
An offline windows comp that I use for labeling purposes. I wipe this comp completely every couple weeks with dericks boot and nuke
then reinstall the os and appropriate label software. This comp has a old working window washer program I keep on it also.
This laptop gets washed and the os done at least once a month - let me tell u it's a pain in the ass and takes a whole day.
The only info I keep are pgp keys and an e-mail addy if not the same as on pgp key and those r on a double - truecrypted usb stick.

I have heard rumors of some dumb ass vendors that have kept info but for the life of me I can't figure out what the possible benefit of this could be.

Peace out;
Christy
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Nero on June 21, 2012, 07:21 am
I dont keep anything!! why would I help build a case against myself?
I have a small webber grill that burns all my paper 4-5 times a week - dcn's addys etc.
An offline windows comp that I use for labeling purposes. I wipe this comp completely every couple weeks with dericks boot and nuke
then reinstall the os and appropriate label software. This comp has a old working window washer program I keep on it also.
This laptop gets washed and the os done at least once a month - let me tell u it's a pain in the ass and takes a whole day.
The only info I keep are pgp keys and an e-mail addy if not the same as on pgp key and those r on a double - truecrypted usb stick.

I have heard rumors of some dumb ass vendors that have kept info but for the life of me I can't figure out what the possible benefit of this could be.

Peace out;
Christy

+1
 
Not all vendors can be as awesome as you Christy :) You got the best shit at the best price and are obviously running one of the best systems. Keep it up! <3
 
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: BenCousins on June 21, 2012, 07:25 am
why would a vendor help implicate themselves? LE wants to move UP the chain not down it and if your buying from a vendor, no matter how much of a gangster you think you are your lower on the food chain then they are. Plus, with evidence of people you have sold to, a simple possession charge, (im addicted your honour it was all for personal use) could now turn into trafficking.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: goblin on June 21, 2012, 12:23 pm
True, Christy, I don't keep anything either. I do remember things occasionally, though, like if a buyer sends another order and he had an apartment number the first time and I remember about it, then I write him asking him if the non inclusion of it was intentional.

Sometimes they themselves forget.

goblin
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Bordermolethesecond on June 22, 2012, 01:12 am
If you keep them in plaintext you are an idiot but I would imagine some do keep them and could possibly use them for their own interests if shit was to ever hit the fan.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: thenar5 on June 22, 2012, 06:37 am
How would they use them "for their own interests" at all?  You're making the case that you're a dealer stronger, and it isn't worth it to launch investigations in to addresses across states/countries for anything but the largest purchases so LE won't let you off easy for your attempt to snitch.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Wadozo on June 22, 2012, 11:31 am
What exactly are their incentives not to keep this information?  Obviously this information is conveyed through SR and it is supposed to be deleted when transactions are completed, but why would vendors not want to keep addresses around in case the worse happened?  Surely they would want to have at least some leverage with LE if something bad happened to them, and it would be incredibly easy to keep an otherwise secure list of each address they'd shipped to.  Plus, the buyers would never have any way to find out if this was going on.  Theoretically, there is no way to tell whether any vendor is hanging on to your address.  Are there any incentives for vendors to discard addresses after each and every purchase?

Are you implying that vendors should keep our addresses so they can snitch on us if they get caught? I don't know where you're from or how you were taught but where I'm from we don't snitch buddy. Ever. You're a fucking idiot and no vendor should ever sell to you again. If you talk that casually about snitching there's no doubt you would. I feel sorry for people that deal with you in real life.

Well said dondada ! Couldn't agree more with those sentiments. :) :)
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: bbuyer76 on June 22, 2012, 11:52 am
I dont keep anything!! why would I help build a case against myself?
I have a small webber grill that burns all my paper 4-5 times a week - dcn's addys etc.
An offline windows comp that I use for labeling purposes. I wipe this comp completely every couple weeks with dericks boot and nuke
then reinstall the os and appropriate label software. This comp has a old working window washer program I keep on it also.
This laptop gets washed and the os done at least once a month - let me tell u it's a pain in the ass and takes a whole day.
The only info I keep are pgp keys and an e-mail addy if not the same as on pgp key and those r on a double - truecrypted usb stick.

I have heard rumors of some dumb ass vendors that have kept info but for the life of me I can't figure out what the possible benefit of this could be.

Peace out;
Christy

LEA can get round windows washers, to save you the hastle create a disk image using acronis and when you want to reimage its just a 10 min job and the pc is just like you reinstalled everything from scratch, I image over 100 stock pc's over a network in one go and it does them all in about 10 mins :)

for secure deletion, try sdelete (clear net = http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx)

copy it to system32 folder or your own and add it to the path variable in windows

so with the 7 pass option your file is military level deleted, so you could do command line  "sdelete -p 7 -s folder_to_delete" and it would write over the folder and anything in it including subfolders and the space they took up 7 times with random numbers and letters :)

you can clear your free space on your hd using "sdelete -p 7 c:" and if you use whole disk encrption with true crypt like you said, its physically impossible (at the moment and the foreseeable future) for a rogue agent to get in and if they do by some miracle its all securely deleted :)

BBuyer76
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Bordermolethesecond on June 22, 2012, 04:26 pm
How would they use them "for their own interests" at all?  You're making the case that you're a dealer stronger, and it isn't worth it to launch investigations in to addresses across states/countries for anything but the largest purchases so LE won't let you off easy for your attempt to snitch.

Yes because we are all in America. I forgot, how silly of me.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: YouCanCallMeDougie on June 22, 2012, 05:03 pm
Vendors shouldn't, because per the SR handbook your addresses are deleted upon completion of order.  Keeping addresses would not only make vendors keep incriminating evidence about their biz, but strictly goes against all SR stands for an being "Anonymous Market Place."  Also selling out people you are distributing to only adds to what charges could be against you.  It's like when LE pulls you over for an ounce of pot in the car and both you and your friend claim it as both of yours (although a chivalrous act) it will just lead to both of you getting charged with the same crimes.  It's not like they split it in half when the charges are levied, so you both only get charged with half of an O.  I understand vendors trying to protect their interests if scammed or such (ie. blacklisting members) and that people can just resign up under a new user name with the same receiving address.  That is about the only instance that I can see it proving useful to not getting the wool pulled over your eyes again.  Also to the point earlier snitches end up in stitches and all it does is hurt the community and help LE.  End of Rant 8)~Dougie
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: thenar5 on June 24, 2012, 06:05 am
How would they use them "for their own interests" at all?  You're making the case that you're a dealer stronger, and it isn't worth it to launch investigations in to addresses across states/countries for anything but the largest purchases so LE won't let you off easy for your attempt to snitch.

Yes because we are all in America. I forgot, how silly of me.

I didn't imply that anywhere in my post.  Where in the world is having the address of somebody far away who may have purchased drugs a useful piece of information to give the police if you are arrested?
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: kmfkewm on June 24, 2012, 11:47 am
How would they use them "for their own interests" at all?  You're making the case that you're a dealer stronger, and it isn't worth it to launch investigations in to addresses across states/countries for anything but the largest purchases so LE won't let you off easy for your attempt to snitch.

Yes because we are all in America. I forgot, how silly of me.

I didn't imply that anywhere in my post.  Where in the world is having the address of somebody far away who may have purchased drugs a useful piece of information to give the police if you are arrested?

Interpol may be interested in it
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Mitanox on June 24, 2012, 04:35 pm
I never keep addresses longer then necessary unless my customers ask me to (if they have a deal with me that they want weekly shipments for example and even then they are stored in a separate Truecrypt container in my already Truecrypted PC).

Personally I dont think it matters as I will never ever give up my Truecrypt passwords to anyone because it would only incriminate myself to a point where I would be behind bars for a long time and I suspect the same goes for any other vendor when looking at it from a security perspective but ethically its just not done to keep addresses from customers if they don't want to so I don't. I do keep a list of countries (and states in the case the country is the USA) of the amount of packs arrived or not, where I shipped the batch of mail from and the packaging style code in a spreadsheet but this cant be traced back to individual customers their address or nickname.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Bordermolethesecond on June 24, 2012, 05:00 pm
How would they use them "for their own interests" at all?  You're making the case that you're a dealer stronger, and it isn't worth it to launch investigations in to addresses across states/countries for anything but the largest purchases so LE won't let you off easy for your attempt to snitch.

Yes because we are all in America. I forgot, how silly of me.

I didn't imply that anywhere in my post.  Where in the world is having the address of somebody far away who may have purchased drugs a useful piece of information to give the police if you are arrested?

Other countries maybe they wouldnt but if you had 10 local addresses, and you said to them I can guarantee you high volumes of both drugs and criminals come and go here and here etc. If they felt there was a decent catch in it for them it might float their boat. Maybe not. Just saying some squealers would be willing to try it.
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: sabteria14 on June 24, 2012, 05:52 pm
the unscrupulous vendors often do
Title: Re: Why wouldn't vendors keep the addresses of those to whom they've sold?
Post by: Christy Nugs on June 24, 2012, 11:39 pm
I dont keep anything!! why would I help build a case against myself?
I have a small webber grill that burns all my paper 4-5 times a week - dcn's addys etc.
An offline windows comp that I use for labeling purposes. I wipe this comp completely every couple weeks with dericks boot and nuke
then reinstall the os and appropriate label software. This comp has a old working window washer program I keep on it also.
This laptop gets washed and the os done at least once a month - let me tell u it's a pain in the ass and takes a whole day.
The only info I keep are pgp keys and an e-mail addy if not the same as on pgp key and those r on a double - truecrypted usb stick.

I have heard rumors of some dumb ass vendors that have kept info but for the life of me I can't figure out what the possible benefit of this could be.

Peace out;
Christy

LEA can get round windows washers, to save you the hastle create a disk image using acronis and when you want to reimage its just a 10 min job and the pc is just like you reinstalled everything from scratch, I image over 100 stock pc's over a network in one go and it does them all in about 10 mins :)

for secure deletion, try sdelete (clear net = http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897443.aspx)

copy it to system32 folder or your own and add it to the path variable in windows

so with the 7 pass option your file is military level deleted, so you could do command line  "sdelete -p 7 -s folder_to_delete" and it would write over the folder and anything in it including subfolders and the space they took up 7 times with random numbers and letters :)

you can clear your free space on your hd using "sdelete -p 7 c:" and if you use whole disk encrption with true crypt like you said, its physically impossible (at the moment and the foreseeable future) for a rogue agent to get in and if they do by some miracle its all securely deleted :)

BBuyer76

I do believe u have misunderstood. My apologies for not making it clearer.

I use the ww 7 pass shread feature for file on desktop and use the 7 pass on regular cleanup right after my printing is done.

When I nuke the hard drive I use memtest 86+ first - then reboot with dericks - use 7 passes then reload windows with ghost.
It takes that long just to wipe. My printer comp is very old laptop.

The only thing that I am missing is the ability to get inside the actual printer. I am sure kmfkewm knows what I am speaking of...:P
no reason to give johhny law any ideas lol.

I think I am as safe as is possible but thanks for the link - I will startpage the program and check it out.