Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: 2marijuanaman on July 07, 2013, 07:38 am
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Ive been using a lot of psychedelics and have recently been thinking heavily about suicide... My lifes fine and all, but I'm far removed. I had one close friend left I lost. He said maybe we'd see eachother in another lifetime, and goodbye, cutting off all contact. weird in my opinion, especially for someone I've known so well...
So I feel like its time to move on learn more, enter 'hyperspace as a light being'... I was wodering if anyones had near death experiences and could give my advice?
I imagine suicide as walking into a black hole. Noone who goes in returns to tell about what its like... but clearly our souls are eternal. The black souls lead somewhere people havent been before
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All scientific evidence currently most strongly supports the notion that when you die your ability to perceive and think cease to be, causing 'you' to enter a state most similar to extremely deep sleep, although even more so. There is no scientific evidence for an eternal soul, and all religions promising eternal life after death have been thoroughly debunked and believing in any of them is essentially the same as believing in arbitrary bullshit. One of the leading theories of the end fate of our universe is that it will enter into a state of heat death, in which change ceases to be. This means that our universe is likely not cyclic, and there will not be a new singularity formed or a new expansion, and therefor there is no chance that you will reemerge from the singularity again after you die. The probability that a neural network making up your consciousness will be recreated in the remainder of time up until heat death is likely to be infinitesimally low. Pretty much your only hope for life after death is a multiverse with eternal inflation. However, in many multiverse models it is predicted that there is already at least one other life form equal to you somewhere in reality, and considering the fact that your ability to perceive doesn't seem to stretch to this clone it seems likely that after you die here you will not suddenly be able to see through the eyes of your counterpart in the multiverse. Also, the multiverse is not even proven and it probably never will be, and many physicists see the notion of a multiverse as being more religious than scientific.
Near death experiences are not the same thing as death experiences. If you want to experience a near death experience I suggest that you snort approximately 250 miligrams of ketamine, which will also probably have the added benefit of giving you temporary relief from depression lasting for some weeks, as you are probably actually depressed if you are contemplating suicide, even if you claim otherwise. Other than that I would lay off of the psychedelics for a while because you don't want to get so far out there that you kill yourself trying to have a spiritual experience.
Failing that you may want to consider joining a cult, your beliefs seem to map with heavens gate pretty well, unfortunately for you they already blasted off into heaven on a spaceship hidden by a comet.
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Why do all my former friends say "youd make a good cult leader" or "go join a cult" Like, gee, thanks. Anyway the ketamine idea didnt work
The way you put this information into words makes little sense... If youd explain it in another ay Id still love to read it. But ibogaine basically taught me that if I commit suicide, then Ill pick up where I left off, still learning. Ill have better circumstances in my new life.
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state most similar to extremely deep sleep
So. DMT hyperspace, basically? ;)
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Actually it will be most similar to how things were before you were born.
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people who are in with the reincarnation stuff are doing it because they had some glimmer of a memories from a past life. Don't buy into my friend. My hypothesis is that basically the energy is recycled. Bare with me. Yea the same energies is re used but not individualized. It is thrown back into the main energies and mixed back up. Expanded if you will and new life energies are given or taken , or assigned ( however it's easier for you to understand) to the newly conceived of the world INCLUDING ALL LIFE FORMS.
People are individuals and some claim to have recollections from another life. Maybe true but the truth is they don't have no clear thoughts of actually being somebody else. Everyone that ever researches out somebody they think they were in a past life ends up finding loads of differences in them and their selves.
I agree a lot with what kmfkewm said. When you die your gone and the earth and the rest of the planets are being drawn into the sun slowly. I sometimes think that if there is a God then maybe he put this whole thing in place as a scientific experiment but can only watch now. The world was set up for us in the beginning and it is what we make of it. Have you ever heard that song "Keep on the Sunny Side"? Well if you look for the bad and stay negative then you will find what you are looking for like that as well. All negative experiences.
I mean no body really knows til they byte the fucking bullet and stay dead right? I've had out of body experiences and could not tell nothing from it about life after death. I can say for certain that we each have full control over our own thoughts and whatever thoughts you have are what causes you to feel however it is you feel. Music is a good way to get out of a bad mind set. Something up beat that you love.
There are people who get tired of living and they start thinking about death and not long after they die. When you are truly ready to die you won't have to do any suicide it'll come to you. Man fuck that shit tho. I say DIE HARD BRO! You only have one life and that life is meant to experience and enjoy all that life has to offer including growing old
So the Ket idea did not work?
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I don't have much to add, but feel that I should mention that I've recovered from some terrible depressive episodes to live a healthy and reasonably happy life. That means anyone else can too. It always worries me when I hear talk of suicide.
I've been extremely fortunate to have only known a couple people who took their own lives, but I did have a good friend hang himself this past spring. It left a lot of us with a heavy cross to bear, so I feel inclined to point that things can (and do) get better for most people.
FWIW, even though I'm a man of faith who believes that is not for me to decide when the gift of life ends, I think science also points in the direction of the end of life being all there is.
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Actually it will be most similar to how things were before you were born.
I was never born to begin with. I always am. I don't die because I was never born.
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Actually it will be most similar to how things were before you were born.
I was never born to begin with. I always am. I don't die because I was never born.
whoa man that is some deep shit.
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whoa man that is some deep shit.
It is the plain, simple truth, open to everyone.
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The way you put this information into words makes little sense... If youd explain it in another ay Id still love to read it.
His point is that we don't know what happens after death, but we have no evidence to think that there will be an afterlife. No heaven/hell, no hyperspace, no reincarnation, just myths to comfort our fear of death.
I would agree that you probably are depressed, as you said you recently lost a close friend. I think suicide is the right answer for someone who is deeply depressed without hope of recovery, but that person is not in the right place to judge objectively whether their situation will improve or not. Take a step back from the psychedelics, evaluate what things would need to change for you to start enjoying this life, talk to a professional, and give the decision some time.
If you do decide to commit suicide, do it right though. You don't want to end up paralyzed, unable to finish yourself off, if the bullet misses and hits your spine or something. I'd suggest a massive injected dose of heroin.
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All scientific evidence ...
This is confused bullshit. Questions about immaterial things are metaphysical, not scientific. It's ludicrous to try to deal with metaphysical issues through science.
His point is that we don't know what happens after death
We don't need to. All we need to know is who we are. Not by reading about it, but through direct experience. And that liberates the mind of all fear of death, because what we are is eternal and unconditioned by time.
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A person is a focused illusion of being, and death occurs when the illusion of being is no longer sustained. Then everything flows out, and away from the disequilibrium state that is life. It is a state of disequilibrium, yet it is maintained for decades, but finally, like all disequilibrium states, it must yield to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and at that point it runs down, its specific character disappears into the general character of the world around it. It has returned then to the void/plenum.
What I imagine happens is that for the self time begins to flow backward, even before death; the act of dying is the act of reliving an entire life, and at the end of the dying process consciousness divides into the consciousness of one's parents and one's children, and then it moves through these modalities, and then divides again
It's moving forward into the future through the people who come after you, and backward into the past through your ancestors. The further away from the moment of death it is, the faster it moves, so that after a period of time, some say 42 days, one is reconnected to everything that ever lived, and the previous ego-pointed existence is allowed to dissolve, returned to the ocean, the morphogenetic field, God, or the One of Plotinus--you choose your term.
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Essence
##Clearnet##
http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp
##Clearnet##
Crazy Parakeets :P
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as long as there can still be some good times its worth living. i guess if life was only complete shit to pretty much shit then maybe whatever. that would be an extreme circumstance though.
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His point is that we don't know what happens after death
We don't need to. All we need to know is who we are. Not by reading about it, but through direct experience. And that liberates the mind of all fear of death, because what we are is eternal and unconditioned by time.
Uh huh, and I suppose you've achieved all this?
Is it possible that someone could "know who they are" and still fear death?
Please enlighten me o wise and benevolent joywind.
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Uh huh, and I suppose you've achieved all this?
There's nothing to achieve.
Is it possible that someone could "know who they are" and still fear death?
Who is it that fears death? The absolute Witness of all contingent perspectives fears nothing.
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Only way is to find out yourself. Only then will you experience what 100+ billion people have experienced. Don't think just because you deem it "trancendal suicide" it's going to be any different.
Who knows? Maybe what you think will happen will happen. Or maybe we're part of the matrix. Or maybe you become a god.
Or maybe you'll just Darwin yourself. Doesn't matter for me, cause I'm not you, and I know I want to live to experience more happiness.
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permadoc ???
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Uh huh, and I suppose you've achieved all this?
There's nothing to achieve.
Is it possible that someone could "know who they are" and still fear death?
Who is it that fears death? The absolute Witness of all contingent perspectives fears nothing.
Your words are meaningless.
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Life is teh best drug.
dont quit
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state most similar to extremely deep sleep
So. DMT hyperspace, basically? ;)
^^ This. If you want to experience death smoke DMT a few times, you will get your fill and want to do something else.
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Your words are meaningless.
All words are meaningless in the face of the unnameable - it cannot be otherwise. Reality cannot be denoted by word or idea because it transcends the limitations of human langauge.
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Your words are meaningless.
All words are meaningless in the face of the unnameable - it cannot be otherwise. Reality cannot be denoted by word or idea because it transcends the limitations of human langauge.
You're getting predictable.
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You're getting predictable.
There's nothing new under the sun.
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We all die someday. Why rush it? Just live your life.
And do what ever you want to do with it!
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I'd recommend you implement some sort of suicide "waiting period", where no matter how much you want to kill yourself, you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can actually carry it out. I think at least one, or much preferably two-three years is a good amount of time to wait. This helps mainly because things do get better over time, and suicide isn't something you want to be impulsive about. The way you feel "removed" right now will pass, but suicide is fairly permanent.
Transcendental suicide? Yes, the atoms and energy in your body will flow into the river of the universe and all, but unfortunately no, you will not experience consciousness in the way you do now ever again. That's why now is special, and since our lifetime is so short already I don't see how making it shorter is really a solution to anything at all.
EDIT: Almost forgot to mention: TRAVEL!! Contrary to what the news media would have you believe, our planet and the people on it are amazing. I doubt you've seen every corner of it, you should really check out more of it before you enter hyperspace as a light being because you might not make it back to Earth then.
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we all die at the end. why rush it?
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There's nothing to achieve.
Who is it that fears death? The absolute Witness of all contingent perspectives fears nothing.
All words are meaningless in the face of the unnameable - it cannot be otherwise. Reality cannot be denoted by word or idea because it transcends the limitations of human langauge.
All the time you talk you want to let pass as the one that knows everything and it's sure of everything, and this alone is a sure give-up that in reality you know little (or nothing) of what you are talking about and you are just an arrogant fool.
I can bet how much you want that I've experienced what you will never do in 30 lifetimes and I would never pretend to know for sure what's what in this life or another, or what is my soul, or even what am "I" in objective terms. There's no way to be sure. There's only way to experience, but that cannot give you knowledge of what the experience is in reality. It's just a subjective certainty, not an objective one and as such it cannot be a real certainty (int the same way as you cannot be objectively sure anything exists apart you). The two things are different, even if you would like to insist they are the same because you cannot understand their difference in your ego trip.
Yes, you can experience who you are and even experience your Atman or soul or whatever you want to call it, you can experience illumination/liberation and you can experience nirvana but still you cannot know for sure what is what and why it is this way and know if a state (of whatever nature) will endure after death or not or even know what that state REALLY is.
It's impossible for us humans - and it will be always impossible - to know certain things and you are not excluded from this no matter how much you would pretend to. You are just so deluded that you cannot look at the thing objectively. All the "gurus" that pretend as you to know what's what are just (what did you say about Crowley, ah... yes) charlatans (and this time for real).
All us humans can do is experience and make hypothesis based on those experiences, but we cannot turn that hypothesis in a reality just because we have had that experience, because we cannot know what that experience is in itself to begin with. You can say that it doesn't really matter to know objectively, and in this I can agree, but don't ever try to pretend that YOU KNOW what the experience in reality is because you cannot - and not only you, NOBODY can, and who says the contrary is just a fool.
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To me suicide is a sign of weakness. Well always has been in my situations with the people I know. U are different . You want knowledge.?? Why??? Why question the unknown that you will never know. When u die u will just die like there is nothing else. A huge release of dmt into the brain I think and nothing else. No othef conciusness. Is there not any more girls u wana fuck or new people u wana meet. Its a very materialistic world and I love every minute of it.
I don't ever want to die I just want to go do what I love. Whixh is fishing and chaseing girls and doing drugs. I love my life and want nothing more than what I know now. Anything more is almost pointless
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All the time you talk you want to let pass as the one that knows everything
On the contrary, I claim to know only one thing, and that is that I know nothing. Nothingness is known only by not knowing. To know nothing is to know by divine knowing, and our ignorance is thus ennobled and adorned with spiritual knowledge. It is knowledge of pure nothingness, which is pure beingness and pure awareness, which is the kind of unknowing that is transcendental.
of what you are talking about and you are just an arrogant fool.
I freely admit that I am a fool because I am attempting to make the truth known to those who don't want to know it and refuse to listen. I guess I have a a naive faith in humanity.
I can bet how much you want that I've experienced what you will never do in 30 lifetimes and I would never pretend to know for sure what's what in this life or another, or what is my soul, or even what am "I" in objective terms.
I don't claim to know anything that stretches beyond my direct experience. I only claim to know what I am directly aware of, which is literally nothing, but a greater nothing than my limited mind can grasp hold of. Man is limited and thus not capable of omniscience; nonetheless, metaphysical truth adapts itself to the form of the human mind in the sense that it limits itself to prevent the victory of falsehood.
There's no way to be sure.
On the contrary, there is a way to ABSOLUTE certitude, because we have the absolute truth in ourselves, burried beneath the surface of our consciousness. We know the Truth, because we ARE the Truth, but this knowledge is hidden by Ice because of the Fall of Man. But the realised man has an eye within his heart, and this is an infallible means of knowledge.
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To me suicide is a sign of weakness.
Most people go through life absolutely terrified of death, yet somehow people who exhibit no fear of oblivion are 'weak' or cowardly? Totally ludicrous. If you think suicide is so easy, why don't you try hanging yourself? Committing suicide takes an act of will, i.e. inner strength, which most people don't have. Most people are too scared to take the ultimate plunge into the unknown.
Suicide is a basically an escape from a situation that has become intolerable. It is no more a sign of weakness, than a slave is a coward who frees himself from the yolk of bondage.
I don't ever want to die I just want to go do what I love. Whixh is fishing and chaseing girls and doing drugs. I love my life and want nothing more than what I know now. Anything more is almost pointless
Not everyone is content to wallow in ignorance. Some people are endowed, or cursed, with a nobler nature. They are more aware of reality. Hence they are bothered by the problem of their existence, why they are here, who they are, where they are going, etc. It is the ignorant and small-minded that are not troubled by these questions.
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I freely admit that I am a fool because I am attempting to make the truth known to those who don't want to know it and refuse to listen. I guess I have a a naive faith in humanity.
NOBODY can know the "truth". Stop with this nonsense. You are just making an idiot of yourself and you don't either get it.
On the contrary, there is a way to ABSOLUTE certitude, because we have the absolute truth in ourselves, burried beneath the surface of our consciousness. We know the Truth, because we ARE the Truth, but this knowledge is hidden by Ice because of the Fall of Man. But the realised man has an eye within his heart, and this is an infallible means of knowledge.
Again exchanging subjective truth vs. objective truth. You lack analytical thinking. I already told you that you are in the position of the man inside in the Plato's Cave metaphor. You think you know the truth just because you have had a glimpse of certain experiences, yet the "truth" you talk about is filtered by personal knowledge, and in your case this last is completely faulted. You must be willingly to go beyond the experience and express analytical thinking, if you cannot do it you just become what you are, a self-aggrandized guru, and a danger to humanity.
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NOBODY can know the "truth".
Realisation of truth is based on intellectual intuition, which by its very nature is infallible because it is a vision by the pure intellect, whereas the analytic mind operates only with reason, hence with logical assumptions and conclusions.
Again exchanging subjective truth vs. objective truth. You lack analytical thinking. I already told you that you are in the position of the man inside in the Plato's Cave metaphor. You think you know the truth just because you have had a glimpse of certain experiences, yet the "truth" you talk about is filtered by personal knowledge, and in your case this last is completely faulted. You must be willingly to go beyond the experience and express analytical thinking, if you cannot do it you just become what you are, a self-aggrandized guru, and a danger to humanity.
Every person is capable of intellection, for the simple reason that man is man. But, in fact, intellectual intuition -- the eye of the heart -- is hidden under a sheet of ice, so to speak, because of the degeneration of the human species. So we may say that pure intellection is a gift and not a generally distributed human faculty.
You lack analytical thinking.
Analytical thought admits as true only what can be empirically proven, without taking into account on the one hand that truth is independent of our willingness to admit it or not, and on the other hand that a proof is always in proportion to a need for causality, so that there are truths that cannot be proven to everybody; strictly speaking, analytic thought admits something not because it is true, but because it can be proven--or appear to be proven--which amounts to saying that for analytic thought, method outweighs truth, in fact, if not in theory. Specifically rationalist thought, moreover, readily overlooks the fact that there are mental needs due only to a deviation or a hypertrophy and which are consequently unable to provide legitimate points of departure for axiomatic formulations: if blind men could see light they would not dream of asking for proofs of its existence.
Again exchanging subjective truth vs. objective truth.
The distinction is not between subjective and objective (the absolute is simultaneously pure Subject and pure Object), but between truths on the vertical dimension of spirituality, and truths on the horizontal dimension of physicality. One has to distinguish between "horizontal" and "vertical" dimensions, the vertical being spiritual and the horizontal natural. For materialists, only the horizontal dimension exists, and that is why they cannot conceive of causes which operate vertically and which for that very reason are non-existent for them, like the vertical dimension itself.
Your argument has its roots in in this prejudice. Instead of conceiving that creatures are archetypes "incarnated" in matter, starting from the Divine Intellect and passing through a subtle plane, you restrict all causality to the physical world, simply because you yourself are not aware of vertical causation.
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The distinction is not between subjective and objective (the absolute is simultaneously pure Subject and pure Object), but between truths on the vertical dimension of spirituality, and truths on the horizontal dimension of physicality.
No. It's just that you don't understand the difference between subjective and objective certainty.
Let's make you an example. You reach Dhyana, you have that experience. Ok, good. How can you be CERTAIN of what causes the experience, how can you be certain of what the experience REALLY is?
It can be:
1) A blood vessel in the brain exploding.
2) A certain chemical released in the blood.
3) Your consciousness that merges INTERNALLY with an object.
4) Your consciousness that mergers EXTERNALLY with an object.
How the hell can you know the TRUTH OBJECTIVELY of what the experience is? And concerning points 3 or 4 how can you know what even "consciousness" is in that case, and even more what an "object" is either?
You must use BOTH analytical thinking and both experience to look at the things: "the method of science, the aim of religion". Your reason is as important as your non-reason. The point is that you must utilize reasoning after, not during. EVERYTHING must be tested and everything must be look upon objectively, or you become an idiot.
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How can you be CERTAIN of what causes the experience, how can you be certain of what the experience REALLY is?
I've already answered this question, so I'll just quote myself:
"Realisation of truth is based on intellectual intuition, which by its very nature is infallible because it is a vision by the pure intellect, whereas the analytic mind operates only with reason, hence with logical assumptions and conclusions."
And:
"Every person is capable of intellection, for the simple reason that man is man. But, in fact, intellectual intuition -- the eye of the heart -- is hidden under a sheet of ice, so to speak, because of the degeneration of the human species. So we may say that pure intellection is a gift and not a generally distributed human faculty."
And finally:
"We know the Truth, because we ARE the Truth, but this knowledge is hidden by Ice because of the Fall of Man. But the realised man has an eye within his heart, and this is an infallible means of knowledge."
1) A blood vessel in the brain exploding.
2) A certain chemical released in the blood.
Because the self merges into a boundless universal consciousness that transcends the body. Because it is truly self-transcending, what is reached is not the organisation of the brain or body.
3) Your consciousness that merges INTERNALLY with an object.
4) Your consciousness that mergers EXTERNALLY with an object.
There is no subject/object, internal/external distinction.
Because the realisation of the Absolute involves the transcendence of the self into a pure subject, having no object but its own self, it cannot be regarded as objective, but neither can it be regarded as subjective. It's both purely subjective and purely objective. And this is where we get into the paradoxical nature of the experience. We've been conditioned to regard the distinction between subjective and objective as absolute. Mystical experience shows that the subject-object dichotomy is illusory. So when I say that mystical experience points to an objective reality, that is only half of the truth; it is simultaneously a subjective experience. The knower and the known are one.
How the hell can you know the TRUTH OBJECTIVELY of what the experience is?
Because I am that truth. We are all that truth. That is how it can be known, both objectively and subjectively. It is not something standing apart from us.
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Ok, I see that you didn't reply at all to what I said but just sprout again your senseless "mystical chattering" around.
You have not PROVEN me that you know what Dhyana REALLY is (even pretending you experienced it).
Want to try again? What it REALLY is?
You CANNOT do it, nobody can.
You cannot either know if your consciousness is a result of your brain or not, how the fucking can you know? Do you understand it?
All you talk about "mystical experiences" can even be just chemical reactions in your PHYSICAL brain, do you understand it? Does it make a difference in reality? No, but still you cannot say that you know what those experiences are and that they are "so and so", because you don't know.
Now, stay to the point and reply SPECIFICALLY to what I said or I will just ignore you.
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You have not PROVEN me
There is not a question of 'proof' but solely of direct evidence, of intellectual evidence that implies absolute certainty; but in the present state of humanity such evidence is only accessible through contemplation. It may be added that religion, by its very nature and independently of any wish of its representatives, who may be unaware of the fact, contains and transmits this purely intellectual Knowledge beneath the veil of its dogmatic and ritual symbols.
that you know what Dhyana REALLY is (even pretending you experienced it).
Want to try again? What it REALLY is?
These are meaningless questions.
You cannot either know if your consciousness is a result of your brain or not, how the fucking can you know
Because I am not my brain. The brain is merely an organ of forgetfulness. It is like a sponge filled with images of this world of illusion and of heaviness. It deals with relativity and illusion. Intellectual intuition, on the other hand, is the latent remembrance of the Absolute, hidden deep down in our "I". It is far greater than the merely sensual knowledge of illusory things which is obtained by the brain.
All you talk about "mystical experiences" can even be just chemical reactions in your PHYSICAL brain, do you understand it?
The brain exists only within the mind. "Chemicals" are just ideas in your head. They are anthropomorphic conceptions --that is, concepts adapted to the form of the human brain. They don't exist outside of your skull. Reality is unnameable. It isn't limited by your notions of it.
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Because I am not my brain. The brain is merely an organ of forgetfulness. It is like a sponge filled with images of this world of illusion and of heaviness. It deals with relativity and illusion. Intellectual intuition, on the other hand, is the latent remembrance of the Absolute, hidden deep down in our "I". It is far greater than the merely sensual knowledge of illusory things which is obtained by the brain.
Again, how can you be SURE of this? All what you talk as if you are certain that it is what it is, can be just a certainty arising from an experience that comes itself from a chemical change in the brain AND NOTHING MORE. You cannot be sure one way or another. It's futile that you try to pretend that you can be sure, you cannot. It's just that you simply cannot admit it even to yourself.
What we humans can do is just experience and relate what it SEEMS to be like from what we experience. We can only guess based on that experience and what it seems like it is the "truth" from that personal experience, but we will never be able to be certain that what it may seem is then really what is happening, just because we cannot have an objective look at the thing from an outside (and hence objective) medium.
Consciousness and hence all experiences tied with it can just be a result of a physical reaction or stimuli, as it can be totally the contrary or a thing in-between. We will never know one way or the other.
The brain exists only within the mind. "Chemicals" are just ideas in your head.
And those "ideas" can still be tied to that physical organ we call "brain", or not; the "mind" and "consciousness" can also be a result of that same physical organ or not. There's no way to know.
All you perceive and you are can just be only a complete physical (and hence totally mortal and finite) result or completely the opposite or a thing in-between. Basing hypothesis on the experiences you have is fine and good (we humans are in this world just to experience and base hypothesis on those), but still you have ALWAYS to take in consideration the full picture, because elsewhere you are just pretending to call as truth something that cannot be called such because an absolute truth requires an objective certainty that you cannot have, one way or another. You cannot extrapolate the objective from the subjective in the case of humans, so you cannot discern the objective.
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Joywind I don't know what to say to you exept I am a nieve fool. And I want to stay that way. Intead of questioning my excistance I would rather do watever I can to make my excistance the best it can be. I have always wondered what life was and why we were here. But since I've started using psychedelics its had the opposite effect on me than most. Whatever excistance is is just to powerful for me to understand and instead of wondering about it for the rest of my life I just want to make the best of it.
I have had a few friends commit suicide and it wasn't to find the meaning of excistance it was because they were weak and couldn't make good out of thier life.
I'm not scared of death by the way I have experienced my death many times through my eyes and others. I don't see it as a bad thing. It is beutiful and sad at the same time. I love all people and all things I just never want to lose that. Thats my weakness. I'm sorry if I sound ignorant because well I am a little ignorant but we all have our beliefs
Sorry for spelling and stuff. I'm doing this off my phone and a little intoxicated. +1 to u joywind for the good explination on how u feel
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trust in god, but tie up your camel
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We may not be able to "prove the truth" beyond reasonable doubt... but does that mean you should give up trying? Should you be complacent in your knowledge, and just "be?" What is the point of that? Should we not learn anything and everything we can to participate in the survival and advancement of life on Earth?
We don't know the true nature of consciousness, but all scientific signs point to our brains creating it.
There is a guy who can turn off specific memory molecules, or enhance them to make events more important or vivid in your memory. Think of mental illness, or head injuries. If you lose the ability to remember, or gather consciousness, are you YOU?
I personally believe we all get sucked back into the energies of our universe, and that "God" is actually a semi-conscious entity made of all matter and energy in our universe... but whoopty-doo - you will never be you again. That's why Ray Kurzweil's work is going to rock this world - we will have Classical Religion vs the immortal technocracy.
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We may not be able to "prove the truth" beyond reasonable doubt... but does that mean you should give up trying?
Naturally not, and it is actually in the nature of humans to try to discover the "truth" of things. However it is even more important to be able to work with what you experience, instead than asking what it really is what you experience and blocking yourself from doing it.
"If power stops and asks why then it is power weakness".
Should you be complacent in your knowledge, and just "be?" What is the point of that?
The point is: is it really so important to know what "love" is, for example? Or is it more important to embrace that love to the fullest?
Is it more important to know why you can do a thing or be able to do it? Is it more important to know what a thing really is or be able to work practically with that thing and have benefits from it? Is it more important to know how it is that you as an human were created or to experience being it to the fullest?
You can say that one thing doesn't necessarily invalidate the other, and it is true, but if the "why" becomes more important than the "do", if the "because" stops the action, than this can happen, and you harm your experiencing with your research. It is like a runner beginning to focus on the way his legs works to the point of obstacolating their natural function and slow himself down.
Should we not learn anything and everything we can to participate in the survival and advancement of life on Earth?
Naturally. But is it wiser to waste your life to learn how can you participate correctly (and probably never being able to) or to simply participate? Both things are important and have to co-exists, but if your asking why you do exist comes to the point of blocking your actual existence then you are actually killing yourself while pretending you are searching a way to live.
The point is that many of the "why" man has he will probably never be able to discover because the mystery is too vast and there are no ways to do connections between two things when the gap is too large. We humans are at the center of what we experience, we cannot be outside of it and as such we can't be able to look at what we experience from the outside so as to have an objective view at it. Certain questions are so outside our possibility to provide an answer upon that it is futile to even try since doing so, given the complexity, will just stop you from simply acting and enjoying the process.
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I do agree with some of what you're saying.
If in the end, we discovered that we are all just a chemical cocktail that became sentient by chance, and there is no after-death consciousness, wouldn't that make life unbearable for some, and remove a lot of the joy of it for others.
Certainly.
Every person has a different view of joy though. To a scientist exploring the universe and/or consciousness you would perhaps find joy and excitement in the more mechanical way things are, in the same way a devout Christian may find joy waving snakes in the air and wiggling their heads in epileptic ecstasy.
People these days definitely exercise their right to remain as educated as they please. I don't think it's wrong to chase answers, if that's what you enjoy. The thing about "strong beliefs" is that people who hold them will seldom relinquish them for anything - even cold hard facts. So I don't think any harm is inherent in allowing the search, and I don't think many of those scientists do so at the expense of their enjoying life.
I would never end my existence to see what is on the other side, as I will be there soon enough. I don't NEED that answer right away. We are here on this planet so briefly - I feel it's important for us to find our joy and exercise it to the fullest, as long as it does not impinge upon the joy of others. That includes future generations, so it is not a selfish joy at the expense of our world or the people in it. My joy is bringing joy to others, now and in the future.
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So I don't think any harm is inherent in allowing the search, and I don't think many of those scientists do so at the expense of their enjoying life.
On the contrary many times they do. They start with the assumption of: "this is impossible because there's no proof of it being possible" and in doing so they REALLY make the thing impossible.