Silk Road forums

Discussion => Security => Topic started by: lateralalice on December 01, 2011, 09:58 pm

Title: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: lateralalice on December 01, 2011, 09:58 pm
How do Silk Road users feel about the security of offshore VPN services? I'm thinking specifically of several Swedish services, most notably the new product being offered by the Pirate Party. These services are fairly cheap (~$10/mo), with the only drawback I can see being that you are always associated with a single IP.
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: LexusMiles on December 01, 2011, 10:44 pm
Those services can be good for piece of mind for your torrenting needs. For almost everything else, I think TOR would be better. I don't know if you can combine TOR + VPN for even higher protection than TOR alone, but if you could, it would be still largely unnecessary.

I think of it like this:

High bandwidth + low anonymity = VPN
Low bandwidth + high anonymity = TOR
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: tommyv on December 01, 2011, 11:10 pm
Having a static IP is not always a drawback -- I tried making a Neteller account through Tor some time ago and it was disabled before I could even log in.
A VPN makes you seem much less suspicious to a website than connecting through Tor or a public proxy, while still giving you a layer of security (though this depends on where exactly your proxy and the company offering the VPN are located), especially if you make sure you pay with something that isn't tied to your identity.
I've read good things about Ivacy somewhere, you might want to check it out.
You could also get a proper VPS, which are really convenient at times and can work as Tor relays, so that you'd be contributing to the network!

But yeah, if you want to do something more illegal and not just shady, use Tor. You can use twenty private proxies and you can still be traced with enough time and dedication and money (though it's highly unlikely anyone would bother doing that for small-time criminals).
Using a VPN in conjunction with Tor would also be pretty pointless. I think that having some torrents downloading while you Tor makes you much safer when it comes to traffic analysis/timing attacks.
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on December 06, 2011, 03:56 pm
based on the pirate party's agenda (privacy etc) they could be the right vpn solution to go with and they probably deliberately don't log what a regular Co should to comply with bloody laws and themselves etc,

so although the fixed ip aspect is not ideal they may do it to keep their administration to a minimum so it may be ok here...

its very possible they may get a visit from the federal LE body some time in the future to disclose what users like you have been doing, and this data if any may be made accessible to the LE.....etc


still a chance you take but its better than nothing...
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: Bish0p on December 07, 2011, 01:51 am
Check out mullvad.net for a good off shore VPN provider.  They seem to be set up for torrenting. Their service is extremely easy to set up, they keep no records, and you can pay in bit coins if you like.  They have plans that go all they way down to like 3 days or something like that.

I'm not an expert in this stuff but from everyone I have talked to a VPN will give you a decent amount of protection but they are developing ways to break that.  Here is a link to a pdf about how LE is learning to break through VPNs using skype. http://cis.poly.edu/~ross/papers/skypeIMC2011.pdf

A question I have:  I typically use IPTorrents.  Now their URL is http://www.iptorrents.com recently going to that address takes you to http://www.on.iptorrents.com.  Is that anything I should be concerned with?
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN - iptorrents.com
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on December 07, 2011, 09:35 am
Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

   Domain Name: IPTORRENTS.COM
   Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
   Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
   Name Server: NS1.EASYDNS.COM
   Name Server: NS2.EASYDNS.COM
   Name Server: NS3.EASYDNS.ORG
   Name Server: NS6.EASYDNS.NET
   Status: clientDeleteProhibited
   Status: clientRenewProhibited
   Status: clientTransferProhibited
   Status: clientUpdateProhibited
   Updated Date: 06-mar-2011
   Creation Date: 18-apr-2006
   Expiration Date: 18-apr-2014

>>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 09:01:33 UTC <<<

7    62.117.121.114    62.117.121.114    Russian Federation    205.395
8    95-128-240-2.avk-com.ru    95.128.240.2    Russian Federation    200.639
9    mail39.oooserver.com    95.128.245.233    Russian Federation    198.703

IP Location:
Russian Federation - Russian Federation - Avk-computer Ltd

-so the local webserver admins may be in the process of revamping the website
- does the frontpage look and appear the same or is it completely different to the orig?

 
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: Bish0p on December 08, 2011, 02:15 am
Quote
-so the local webserver admins may be in the process of revamping the website
- does the frontpage look and appear the same or is it completely different to the orig?

Everything still looks and works exactly the same.  I just caught it out of habit by always looking for anything fishy.

I haven't heard anything about it.  I am just naturally a paranoid person.

Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: Bish0p on December 08, 2011, 02:48 am
Also, I know how you found

Quote
   Domain Name: IPTORRENTS.COM
   Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
   Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
   Name Server: NS1.EASYDNS.COM
   Name Server: NS2.EASYDNS.COM
   Name Server: NS3.EASYDNS.ORG
   Name Server: NS6.EASYDNS.NET
   Status: clientDeleteProhibited
   Status: clientRenewProhibited
   Status: clientTransferProhibited
   Status: clientUpdateProhibited
   Updated Date: 06-mar-2011
   Creation Date: 18-apr-2006
   Expiration Date: 18-apr-2014

But where did you come up with

Quote
7    62.117.121.114    62.117.121.114    Russian Federation    205.395
8    95-128-240-2.avk-com.ru    95.128.240.2    Russian Federation    200.639
9    mail39.oooserver.com    95.128.245.233    Russian Federation    198.703

IP Location:
Russian Federation - Russian Federation - Avk-computer Ltd

When I search the ip of the URL I get

The IP address of www.iptorrents.com is 95.128.245.233
The IP address 95.128.245.233 is assigned to Denmark

I'm sure I'm probably doing something wrong, just not sure what.
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: kingston on December 08, 2011, 05:26 am
I have been using www.overplay.net and they are the best I have seen, and I have trialed a number of VPNs. You can use any one of their servers in 60+ countries and it's fast. The problem I had with other VPN providers was my physical location, the south pacific, but they had a server in my country. I would say it knocks the connection down by 15%, but I usually get 1.5-2Mbps so the lost is not really noticeable. The customer support is good.

Regarding "A question I have:  I typically use IPTorrents.  Now their URL is http://www.iptorrents.com recently going to that address takes you to http://www.on.iptorrents.com.  Is that anything I should be concerned with?" - I work in IT and when you buy a domain you 'own' so-to-speak everything from <-iptorrents.com. As long as the top level domain (.com) and the second level domain (.iptorrents) remain the same they can put anything in front of it (.on) but it always belongs to the original registering party (iptorrents.com).

Cheers,
Kingston
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: edballs on December 08, 2011, 05:58 am
I am a firm believer that there is no such thing as a 100% secure anonymity or encryption, no matter what the evangelists say. If someone you are up against has a multi billion dollar budget to break your encryption and/or steal your keys then they will probably win.

I know this is unlikely, but whatever. this isnt my point.

Assuming that it is possible to identify your server, the next step is gaining access to your server.

Possibly the best security for physical access to your server is for it to run on a box in the same room as you. Even then you must go out every now and then and leave your server unattended.

If your server is unattended, where would you rather it be? in your suburb in an american/british/euro/israel city? or in a hardened ex cold war bunker somewhere in a country / legal jurisdiction where the feds have no ability to get to it?

If you think the feds can't sneak into your house or apartment while you pop down the road for a bottle of milk, then think again.

So in this regard, yes, an off shore server, or a server in a jurisdiction which protects your anonymity is worthwhile. How worthwhile? Up to you to do the cost/benefit analysis.

Bear in mind that many such operations may very well give access to the feds in order to survive. Feds could blackmail or extort information from any operator of any online services, anywhere in the world, in any jurisdiction.

However, in this scenario, even if direct physical access to your server is impossible and extorting your data is impossible, then they could always try to come in via the net. If your seerver is connected then it is accessible.

If they can load worms onto siemens PLCs in Iraninan nuclear enrichment facilities - they can get onto your system. do not doubt this.

So now we have another cost/benefit scenario to calculate - theirs.

How worth it is it for them?

once you have calculated your own cost/benefit and your opponents cost/benefit you should be able to have at least an understanding of how far you need to go in regards to securing your own data and communications.

There is NO SUCH THING as a 100% secure anything.

You just need to make sure that your security endeavours go further than their infiltration endeavours.

I know this is not really giving an answer but I hope it give you something to think about and a few starting points.

Ed

Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on December 08, 2011, 02:22 pm
Quote
However, in this scenario, even if direct physical access to your server is impossible and extorting your data is impossible, then they could always try to come in via the net. If your seerver is connected then it is accessible.

- thats what network security, protocols & encryption is for.
- you'd probably need to know and invest time into its setup.

Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: Bish0p on December 08, 2011, 09:35 pm
Quote
I typically use IPTorrents.  Now their URL is http://www.iptorrents.com recently going to that address takes you to http://www.on.iptorrents.com.  Is that anything I should be concerned with?" - I work in IT and when you buy a domain you 'own' so-to-speak everything from <-iptorrents.com. As long as the top level domain (.com) and the second level domain (.iptorrents) remain the same they can put anything in front of it (.on) but it always belongs to the original registering party (iptorrents.com).

Thanks for the info.  This is very helpful.
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on December 09, 2011, 10:16 am
Also, I know how you found

Quote
   Domain Name: IPTORRENTS.COM
   Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
   Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
   Name Server: NS1.EASYDNS.COM
   Name Server: NS2.EASYDNS.COM
   Name Server: NS3.EASYDNS.ORG
   Name Server: NS6.EASYDNS.NET
   Status: clientDeleteProhibited
   Status: clientRenewProhibited
   Status: clientTransferProhibited
   Status: clientUpdateProhibited
   Updated Date: 06-mar-2011
   Creation Date: 18-apr-2006
   Expiration Date: 18-apr-2014

But where did you come up with

Quote
7    62.117.121.114    62.117.121.114    Russian Federation    205.395
8    95-128-240-2.avk-com.ru    95.128.240.2    Russian Federation    200.639
9    mail39.oooserver.com    95.128.245.233    Russian Federation    198.703

IP Location:
Russian Federation - Russian Federation - Avk-computer Ltd

When I search the ip of the URL I get

The IP address of www.iptorrents.com is 95.128.245.233
The IP address 95.128.245.233 is assigned to Denmark

I'm sure I'm probably doing something wrong, just not sure what.


www.iptorrents.com currently resolves to 95.128.245.233
a traceroute to 95.128.245.233 takes you to russia...

opening http;//95.128.245.233 in a webbrowser, the result is a 'placeholder' webpage...and resides somewhere in the russian federation, so accessing that host on port 80 gives you the default webpage with nothing on it.
lighttpd/1.4.28 = is running on that ip..

the torrent tracker (if thats what supposed to be running here..?) may certainly be listening on an arbitrary port
ultimately the domain is owned by 'Domains by Proxy, Inc', and there seems to be a live webserver apparently doing nothing located in russia, where the admins are or whatever use the domain is used for....is another matter..
it depends where you are reading 'denmark' from !? -your torrent gui,,,?!
i dont have the setup on this connection to be able to trace and read the packet trace in my favourite bit of software to be able to tell you right now, but i would summise there is redirection going on...otherwise why is the webserver also not listening on nor providing the same content when accessing it via the ipaddress..
if you know what you're doing you can redirect traffic thats addressed to a certain host or host+port elsewhere, and if something is access slightly differently do nothing...


ok
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: TravellingWithoutMoving on December 09, 2011, 10:48 am
ip 95.128.245.233 belongs to an "isp" / private Co ...avk-com.ru, thats probably where the dummy webserver is physically located.

things can can get more complicated when say tiscali (=isp) are global, and their various ip subnets could exist in usa or eu...
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: Bish0p on December 20, 2011, 01:12 am
Quote
things can can get more complicated when say tiscali (=isp) are global, and their various ip subnets could exist in usa or eu...

Thanks for all the info and your time.  It was very helpful but a lot of this seems to be way over my head.  I have still been using it and everything seems on the up and up.  Someone on a torrent forum said the site has not been compromised or anything.  Now whether or not that person is trustworthy is a whole different question.
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: LexusMiles on December 20, 2011, 02:00 am
"What psychedelics do is they dissolve boundaries: and in the presence of dissolved boundaries one cannot continue to close one's eyes to the ruination of the Earth, the poisoning of the seas and the consequences of 2000 yrs of unchallenged dominator culture, based on monotheism, hatred of nature.."

You didn't do enough psychedelics. Yes they do dissolve boundaries, but the truth is that one cannot continue to close one's eyes to the fact that its in our nature to destroy the natural environment, like a cancerous growth eventually kills its host. Speaking of cancer, have you checked the satelite images of the world? Do you not see cities eating into the forests surrounding them? No hurricane, no tidal wave can stop this. Its small minded to think you or I or any drug can do anything about it. If you want to save the "natural" environment then you must destroy the humans. Since we are a product of the environment itself, whatever your choice in this matter, the outcome will be moot.
Title: Re: Anonymity and Offhsore VPN
Post by: PsychoGarden on January 14, 2012, 06:52 pm
rapidVPN is really good. if you don't break holland's law they won't say anything.