Silk Road forums

Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: TheJolllyRoger on September 06, 2013, 03:16 pm

Title: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: TheJolllyRoger on September 06, 2013, 03:16 pm
Hi guys,

I have established contact with a pure oxy powder and fentanyl powder, i have received a few gram of each for free to sample,

As i am neither a user of either of the two i am looking for someone "in the know" with the means at their disposal to tell me and show results of first of all are these products legit, and are they cut, with what etc, i need percentages! i don't expect you to do this for free either,

Hope you can help!
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: redalloverthelandguyhere on September 06, 2013, 06:46 pm
I'm UK, I could get lab results but I only test certain things and opiates or opioids are not on the list.

Not a moral judegment, just keeping this lab testing 'safe'.

I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction. Don't think EZ test cover those drugs.

I'm sure you'll have 100 people who coul test it for you  ;)

Good luck all the same.
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: Ben on September 07, 2013, 01:54 am
Perhaps 100 people that want to sample you fentanyl ;p

Actual analysis would be quite difficult though, at least when you consider the price of equipment.

Somehow i think it would be a nice idea to fund a proper analytical lab from SR. This would probably cost something between $500k and several millions if you want good NMR analysis of samples, but it may be worthwhile to build... sort of our own FDA, without the F and without any questions asked :)
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: Yoda on September 13, 2013, 12:52 pm
Well, how about I just consult?  That way you don't have to just take my word for it, you'll get the results from the lab yourself.  Anyhow it's been quite a while since I've played with analytical chemistry equipment such as NMR and GC-MS machines.

There are forensic labs all over the place... LE may use them if they don't have their own, defense attorneys may use them to counter the prosecution...  private companies may used them for outside quality control... I'm sure they're used for many things.

Anyway, what you need is one that you can work with anonymously.  i.e. pay them with money orders and arrange everything from afar.   I found 2 that may suit you.

You're going to need a burner phone, or some other way of making of making a call that wont trace back to you... and you'll also need to set up a legit looking burner email for the results to be sent to. e.g. JoshRogers@hotmail.com   Obviously use this through tor.

Next... work on your background story just in case you're asked.  You're Mr Joe law-abiding, just started up a small business selling XYZ, go to church etc.  You want to find out what these 2 unknown powders are that you found.  So you got on the internet hoping to find a lab that would test them.  Maybe you rented out a commercial building space on the cheap... it was cheap because the former tenant who ran a small medical supply place died unexpectedly leaving it full of stuff.  Most of which was labeled and you already got rid of, but there were two 5 gallon pales that nobody can guess what it is.  From already selling away most of the other stuff, you realized that these 2 pales may be worth some money, money enough that you'll spend to have them tested before throwing them out.  Or come up with whatever story you want, that was just an example.  You buy foreclosed homes, clean and renovate them, then sell for a profit.  In the one house you're renovating you found.... you get the picture.

You're going to have to call these places... if you're good, or maybe they don't care, or you get lucky... you won't have to explain anything other than you have two powders that you don't know what they are, and was told by friend (who took a lot of chemistry) or something that you should have them analytically tested by GC-MS or some other machine that can give qualitative and quantitative results.  They told you GC-MS can basically tell you what's it's made of exactly, and in what ratios... a breakdown of the substance.

You can even be extra careful and ask them "if a powder has a couple things in it, will this tell me the percentage breakdown?"  Dude may recommend some other machine they have, you'll have to feel him out to decide what would be best coming from that lab.  (Some labs are more specialized in some testing machines over other types of machines) Like #1 below.


#1:  They accept Visa/Mastercard and money orders.
http://thecarlsoncompany.net/drugs.html

They seem to do all sorts of other tests, and I doubt they care where you're located or who you are.
Quote
Lab Testing By Mail for Drugs

Our testing laboratory evaluates client samples using the latest in instrumentation including; EIA, GC/MS, ICP-MS, IC/ICP-MS, Fluorescence, HPLC * See Below.

Lab Analytical Capabilities
GCMS – Gas Chromatography Coupled Mass Spectroscopy
ICP-MS – Inductively Coupled Plasma/Mass Spectrometry (chemical analysis)-Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry
HPLC – High-performance liquid chromatography

Protecting our clients privacy is our mandate
We are members of the Southern Colorado Better Business Bureau
Many of our clients are private individuals but we also serve law enforcement, attorneys, the military, medical examiners, the government, fortune 500 companies, anyone in need of toxicology or DNA testing services.
Your test samples can be submitted by mail from any where in the world
Two business weeks or so report turnaround time, most cases, with express service available


#2: This company seems to work mostly within Colorado with LE picking up samples by courier.  Yet I don't see why they'd turn you down.  They accept cc or money order as well.
http://www.chematox.com/rates/
Quote
Laboratory Service Fees

GC/MS Confirmation/Quantitation (per extraction)    $200.00


#3:  This lab I really didn't look into much, it's late and I'm tired.  I Imagine paying is similar to the previous two, but their standard GC-MS only looks at what's in the sample (Qualitative analysis) and not how much (Quantitative analysis).   And this place is more expensive.

https://www.nmslabs.com/Microsite/productdetail.aspx?acode=72101SL
Quote
Controlled Substances and Pharmaceuticals Panel - GC/MS Scan and Color, Solid (72101SL)

Price: 369.00

Qualitative drug analysis for over 250 types of drugs to include controlled substances; prescription and over the counter preparations.

Obviously you're going to ask these guys to just Email you the results.   And if none of these companies will help you, which I don't see happening, just ask them if they know any labs that will... you haven't found them too easy to find on the internet etc.

Let us know how it goes.

Feel free to donate to my SR account under the same name :)   
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: fractalglobal on September 13, 2013, 02:40 pm
^^^^^^^You could do this....

Or you could use a TLC plate, 1 dot is definitive proof of purity.  It's only when there is more than one dot that you need to look into HPLC or GC/MS for identification and quantification of impurities.
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: Ben on September 23, 2013, 12:45 am
Thin layer chromatography with some staining could certainly establish that a substance is pure.

Identifying the rest of it is the problematic part though. If you order something that is supposed to be very pure, such as 99%+ xanax power, you can easily prove it is not using simple chromatography.

The problem arises when you order something that is advertised to be, for example, 70% pure, and you remain wondering what the other 30% of it actually is.

Also, simple chromatography will not identify what substance you are dealing with. I could, for example, have you analyse a sample of valium that i label as xanax. A simple chromatography test you like propose would prove that it actually contains only one substance, but not that it is the correct one.
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: fractalglobal on September 23, 2013, 05:54 am
How so? If you have the associated RF value for the substance you are working with, you can use TLC to positively identify it.  That is the method they use in quantitative analysis after all...
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: ws on September 23, 2013, 09:42 pm
I've also been looking into somewhere I can send away some coke to be tested, I found ecstasydata.org but they just give parts and not percentages...
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: TheJolllyRoger on September 23, 2013, 11:37 pm
Yeah same as that i just presumed that their would a chemist aboard the SR ship to just send 2-3 gram of three certain chemical to and get the verdict, good or bad!
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: Ben on September 24, 2013, 01:08 am
How so? If you have the associated RF value for the substance you are working with, you can use TLC to positively identify it.  That is the method they use in quantitative analysis after all...

It is slightly more complicated than that, unfortunately.

If you have a pure sample to establish retention factor, that is a good start.

When you rely on simple techniques like thin layer chromatography it is, however, very difficult to tell similar substances apart even when running side by side on the same plate. You may be able to differentiate between them using a certain solvent mixture, but that is hard to establish if chromatography is your only analytical tool.

For positive identification of a chemical you'd need to use another technique to ensure that what behaves similarly actually is identical. The most conclusive evidence would be MS, NMR, or in some cases IR/VIS/UV spectroscopy. Retention time alone does not really 'fingerprint' a substance, though it is very useful to tell mixtures apart from pure substances.
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: TheJolllyRoger on September 24, 2013, 01:51 am
Hi lads,

what im going to do now is send out 3x3samples to experienced volunteers with previous experience using these substances and see their verdict, so nobody looking for a free fix or score get through, you be blacklisted for doing so, i want the genuine answer as to wether this HCL is bunk or not, simple!



3x Vendors eligible for the the sample pack to test will get


 .5000mg alprazolam
.500mg Ketamine
.500mg Fentanyl
,
I just wanna know the purity and ifs bad say so please (ill take no offence becase my source is supposedly legit) if its bunk hes getin' a beatdown anyway, fuck him.
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: Snoopish on September 24, 2013, 05:02 am
Hi lads,

what im going to do now is send out 3x3samples to experienced volunteers with previous experience using these substances and see their verdict, so nobody looking for a free fix or score get through, you be blacklisted for doing so, i want the genuine answer as to wether this HCL is bunk or not, simple!

I just wanna know the purity and ifs bad say so please (ill take no offence becase my source is supposedly legit) if its bunk hes getin' a beatdown anyway, fuck him.

Haha, I like your style. I have a bit of experience with alprazolam and ketamine (I bought a .5g of alprazolam powder from Oliver long before his supply got thinned and then went out. For ketamine, I've gotten some from several different sources). As for the fentanyl, that stuff is intense and I have no experience working with it. However, me and a couple friends I know have varying knowledge/experience/interest in chemistry with some low-tier equipment.

I just stumbled across this so I can't make any promises regarding just how much information I/we could extract but I enjoy me a few side projects and I could give you relative judgements on the first two relatively fast [the alprazolam I could compare against the product I got from Oliver as I've stored a bit of it] (with potentially more detailed assessments to follow depending on what we can work out in terms of analyzing). The fentanyl would be the longest one as I'd have to give myself a crash course in the organic chemistry behind it.

If you don't find anyone more qualified/you prefer I'd be happy to give you what information I could. And I'm not a fan of acting unprofessionally (such as lying to try and get a free fix) so if you want my help on any/all of them I could do a significant amount of assessing with just a point of each. (Probably less but if I can cook up some proper chemical techniques to pull additional information out (may not be feasible or possible) such trial-and-error reactions could eat up a decent amount of product.

And if my more amateur techniques/research doesn't provide much information then I can look into some of the more expensive equipment nearby and see if I can't get some time/someone else's time to play with the product in something along the lines of what's already been suggested.


Good luck and feel free to be in touch if you're interested. If not, all the best and I look forward to seeing how it works out.

Cheers,


Snoopish
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: Ben on September 25, 2013, 12:33 am
You should actually be careful working with that fentanyl. Half a milligram is not a deadly dose at all, but still equivalent to 50 mg of morphine.

Fentanyl really is a substance most chemists are not very comfortable working with, since very small amounts of it have effects and it is also quite easily absorbed through skin, especially when dissolved in apolar solvents.

Obviously this property is what makes patches work well in medical application, but when it comes to chemical/analytical work on the stuff extra precaution should be taken since it is about 100 times more potent compared to morphine and even a tiny exposure could impair you severely - increasing the chance of making a dangerous mistake, not of death as a direct result.
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: fractalglobal on September 26, 2013, 08:02 am
How so? If you have the associated RF value for the substance you are working with, you can use TLC to positively identify it.  That is the method they use in quantitative analysis after all...

It is slightly more complicated than that, unfortunately.

If you have a pure sample to establish retention factor, that is a good start.

When you rely on simple techniques like thin layer chromatography it is, however, very difficult to tell similar substances apart even when running side by side on the same plate. You may be able to differentiate between them using a certain solvent mixture, but that is hard to establish if chromatography is your only analytical tool.

For positive identification of a chemical you'd need to use another technique to ensure that what behaves similarly actually is identical. The most conclusive evidence would be MS, NMR, or in some cases IR/VIS/UV spectroscopy. Retention time alone does not really 'fingerprint' a substance, though it is very useful to tell mixtures apart from pure substances.

Hence why I always keep analytical standards for the 'key' intermediates in most syntheses I perform  ;).  However I disagree that methods other than chromatography are required for positive identification of compounds in street drugs.  This is because a confidence interval <0.05 is not an absolute requirement here as it is in commercial/academic labs.  Hell, even with compounds of extremely similar solubility profiles such as Isopropylbenzylamine and a-Dimethylphenethylamine it has been shown that careful selection of eluent allows for fairly confident identification using TLC.[1]

[1]Microgram bulletin - June 2008, pg. 36-45
Title: Re: Lab/test results wanted on products
Post by: Ben on September 27, 2013, 12:44 am
The problem mainly is that you deal with unknown substances. You can choose eluent solvent mixtures all you like, but if you get something off the street, there is  basically no way to be certain what is in there.

Often they are just a substance like heroin cut with a substance completely different that is easily demonstrated by thin layer chromatography. It could, however, also be the case that the sample contains no heroin at all, but instead some pure substance that has similar characteristics in chromatography.

Retention factor as such just is no means to identify a substance positively, although it can be a tool to prove that something is not what it was claimed to be quite often.