Silk Road forums
Discussion => Silk Road discussion => Topic started by: MissNatural on September 05, 2013, 11:51 pm
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*This are some of my posts from other topic combined and revised, but extremely worthwhile points none the less. Now, these are my opinions, and I feel they are pretty solid with their logic. I might also be a tad bit delusional, but it is also that slight degree of grandiosity that has enabled me to come up with excellent ideas that have thus far lead to great success in my life, so below, I present to you my reasons for why the current system has got to go, and or be changed asap.
*THE REASON WHY THE CURRENT NUMBER FEEDBACK SYSTEM IS FLAWED*
It seems people are overlooking a major fact about the philsophy of the numbering/grading system.
It doesn't matter what the words SR has beside the ratings. A 5/5 = 100%. 4/5 = 80%. You don't see teachers giving students bad grades for doing assignments correct, do you? Just as a vendor should not receive anything less than a 100% if everything was carried out correctly and in a prompt manner. Even in college when a person does an assignment flawlessly as expected, they do not lose points. Points are lost when something was done wrong, or not adequately. Even with graded life assignments, if a person goes far beyond their assignment they may even obtain bonus points such as getting a 105% on a paper. That can equate to a 6/5 rating being for a vendor who made the product over weight for instance. That's pretty clear, reasonable, and straight forward, right?
DPR. If you are going to change the numerical rating system at all, this is what needs to be done: Allow users to rate individual qualities of vendors. Instead of having a single vendor score, have maybe 5(less or more) scores for each vendor. Scores for users to rate communication in terms of average response time(in hours), product fullfillment(5/5 for perfect/on point, 6/5 for above and beyond/free drugs), etc. These are just a few things that could be rated on. When ratings are split up like this they should NOT be averaged into some ultimate score. Each quality of the vendor should be separate for all buyers to judge, this will motivate vendors to maximize their customer service and operations. A verbal feedback should be left for any additional details the buyer wishes to add, whether it be, potency concerns for batches of pills, comments on quality of substances or any other concerns other people should know about.
Feedback should NOT be optional. This is not Amazon.com. It always bothered me that detailed feedbacks were not required. We are not dealing with professional corporations here, but clandestine individuals and groups selling illegal products that have likely not gone through lab-grade testing and are mostly meant to be put into a persons body. With this kind of stuff the importance of a detailed and easily updated feedback cannot be stressed enough.
*REASONING BEHIND MAKING FEEDBACK UPDATABLE*
The fact is the system NEEDS to leave the option for feedbacks to change. The transaction may be over when the user finalizes, but the experience is not. What if someone got a batch of pills, and it all looks good, surely they should leave feedback saying all of the pills arrived safely? Now what if they take those pills and someone gets hurt and dies after they already left feedback? Even worse, what if 5/10 of the pills were great, and they left good feedback, then one of the following pills killed somebody?
THIS is why feedback needs to be flexible. The experience from buying the drug, selling it, or using it, is not OVER until all of that drug has been consumed(either sold or taken). It's simply not realistic to wait for someone to leave a feedback until they are done with the batch they got. Primarily because with things like pills, each batch can be different.... so a person might not leave a review for a particular batch until after that vendor has a new batch, and that delay can ALSO mislead potential buyers looking through the feedback.
There are just far too many reasons. Feedback should be able to left immediately and updated periodically if anything changes in the experience with the drugs. Potential buyers need to hear about: vendors communication, stealth(was it good or bad), did all the drugs arrive, did it all appear good, etc. There are far too many variables that should be able to be updated and changed as they are found out about, instead of waiting until a month has passed since the transaction.
DPR: On top of this, I think it may be useful to add a feature for Vendors to bring up disputes with certain bad feedback that some users might leave out of spite. A lot of scammers just leave trashy feedback regardless, and a lot of these trashy feedbacks can easily be disproven through a number of ways. Most people aren't aware but a lot of vendors contact vendor support for issues like this.... Though disputing a feedback should be a known option for all vendors in order to combat vengeful scammers.
I will end this by restressing the last point from the above section... FEEDBACK SHOULD NOT BE OPTIONAL. We are dealing with peoples health here when we are selling substances that people are putting in their body. People need to be able to update their feedback and be made aware in case for whatever reason part of the batch was good and the other half really hurt somebody. I don't know about you guys but preventing peoples deaths is something that should be a pretty high priority here.
Viva La Revolution! Lets not have SilkRoad become just an online street corner. It needs to become a professional place where people can safely buy substances that aren't going to kill them on accident, and for this to happen users need to update the feedback of certain substances if any unexpected changes happen to them in their experience after a certain transaction.
Love,
MissNatural.
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In the extreme case of someone dying and getting really sick, they should come to the forum to post. Or they can post in discussion. No need for user changeable feedback. That was the problem that lead to making feedback permanent. Buyers would change feedback in order to blackmail vendors or would change feedback to a lower score just before ordering again in hopes of extorting some sort of discount on their new order.
Besides, this being an anonymous marketplace, anyone can make up some BS story about someone being harmed by a drug. There's no way to verify it. Harm reduction is the responsibility of the individual. And as such, there are many variables that can contribute to one being harmed. Even something as simple as a drug being "too pure." I.e. a heroin user used to doing less than "pure" heroin gets his or her hands on some high quality China White and takes the same dose as they did with the less than pure stuff they are used to. The end up in a bad way. Now who's fault is that?
Same thing can happen to an opiate user who hasn't taken the drug in a while but immediately goes back to using again and starts off at the old dose. They failed to account for their tolerance dropping over the course of their abstinence. They end up ODing. Whose fault is that?
Bear in mind that nearly all webstores on the internet have permanent feedback. Why should SR be any different?
Agreed about the 4/5 = 80%. Though, no point in arguing DPR's "explanation" of what each point is meant to represent. Most vendors are simply going to blacklist any buyer who leaves a 4/5 if it affects the overall score. And yes, vendors can figure out who left the feedback score in most cases.
It was said that SR support can change feedback score if the buyer requests raising it. But only to raise it. Though, that remains to be seen as it has been reported that a few buyers have asked for their feedback to be raised but their requests have either been unread or ignored by SR support.
The feedback score is basically a reflection of the transaction. The feedback commentary, which can be left at a later date can be used to elaborate on the total experience. And don't forget that there's also the discussion feature. So buyers have plenty of tools at their disposal.
Give the new system some time. Especially before declaring it "majorly flawed." Let's wait and see what clever ways people come up with to game the system before fixing elements of it. But one's thing is certain, allowing feedback to be changed is how the old system was gamed and why it's no longer an option.
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SR forums is living up that old usenet description: a bunch of people with sticks beating a bloody spot on the ground where a dead horse used to be.
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In the extreme case of someone dying they should come to the forum to post. Or they can post in discussion.
Sorry, thought that was funny.
We deal in drugs. With drugs, comes regrets. Everyone knows that dude that was really excited about getting a bag of coke, only to snort it all up in a night, and regret it the next day. The beauty of being able to change your feedback is, you can troll the vendor into giving you a refund via feedback blackmail. Because lets face it, that cocaine must have been bunk, right? Fuck man, I could have paid the light bill with that $300! What a crook that vendor is!
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I have removed my name because I am not advertizing here, have all the clients I need or can handle right now.
Yes I deserve 5/5 and 4/5 would be an insult.
I have only 5/5 because...:
One of many, repeated client, Australian, not a newby on SR, today in messages and feedback:
PM:
i see wht you mean there is a bad new system,...i click 5/5 for you and then it moved me away from that order before i can comment??? i want to make a commnt, its my favourite fun part!! How do i do it? they dont show the customer how to comment,, do you know how? maybe i ask the admin?
5/5
Written feedback:
absolutely gorgeous human being, friendly to do business with..amazing speed of post considering the distance. Great stealth, great price, i cant say enough great things about him. Product is A++++ Anyone wondering about the product or vendor, wonder no more, i stand by XXX and the product 100% after many transactions. Very strong stuff so stay safe....and if you're worried about postage, XXX is so discrete, i have had many many many safe deliveries to Australia with no hassle at all, less than 2 weeks wait. So go for it, give him a try :) You wont be disappointed.
Another, Scandinavian client, also having problems with the feedback
5/5
XXX did it again, 3 workingdays from central EU to scandinavia, exellent! Good communication before and after transaction, just me that is late with the review, (I did not really understand the new "how to do" here on SR) . But anyway, I have used a part of the products and they are FINE, just as they should :)
The best way to say is; I WILL BE BACK for sure, and XXX, THX.
What I think:
So, the rating 1/5 to 5/5 gives the indication about the overall result: communication, shipping-time- stealth etc.
The written feedback give an explanation so to speak....
If a vendor has all the time 5/5 and in the written feedback it is clear that people are really happy and freely give the comment (no blacklist extortion) then this is a good vendor....in my book
It works two ways (for me anyway) if I do my best and I get feedback as shown above (sometimes)
it gives me energy and be happy to do that -and more- for my clients.
If I do all I can and some buyer think (in his mind) that I could do more and give a 4/5 I am insulted.
Does he has the right to give 4/5 ..yes.
Do I have the right to be insulted...yes
Do I have the right to say next time you better not order from me because I cannot do you any good ...at least that is what the rating/writing say...do I have that right...yes !
Nothing like blackmail/extortion for better rating, I just don't want that customer same as he/she obviously don't want me.... proved by the 4/5.
Even more ''stupid'' would be that he comes back next time to order again.....
He can use another vendor who give him what he likes (I doubt that by the way)
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system except...the extortion possibility changing the rate after ...long after in case of a problem or just to get free pills.
Simple solution, an x number of days, 5 to 10 and then it is final.
If you read all the feedback given by buyers and the overall feeling is good, you can trust this vendor...what else do you need.
The current calculation is good but who, wanting to buy the stuff tonight, will go through all the numbers?
Not because it is mine but...if I see a vendor selling for 1.5 years, have a 5/5 rating and sweet written feedback...I would use him/her without a doubt
When I see that this vendor make it to the worst countries without a single problem...what else could I wish for??
That is why you get me angry....after all this to be able to give 4/5 just for ......?
So please (will not happen but still) give the old system back, the kiss principal?
It was not broken...please don't fix it
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SR forums is living up that old usenet description: a bunch of people with sticks beating a bloody spot on the ground where a dead horse used to be.
Not necessarily, he already backtracked on the original concept due to pressure.
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Right,
there is no difference a vendor ships USA domestic or -me- from EU to Australia.
I think the EU/Australia success should be weighted more but...not going to happen...because....who cares?
Suppose a shipment from me (EU) to Australia not arriving is the same negative as US/US but mine has a 200% more chance if not more not arriving.
If you think...100 shipments domestic USA or UK or whatever ''weigh'' the same as 100 shipments EU/Australia
or -another no no zone- EU /Scandinavia.
Do I miss something?
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I'll say my piece again: the new system is fine except a buyer should be able to edit ONLY the latest feedback with a vendor. This prevents multiple feedback blackmail while allowing some flexibility. Its a simple tweak which I think would solve a lot of the problems,
If vendors are claiming that a single feedback can be used to blackmail then this can be done whatever the setup, as a customer can threaten to leave a one unless he is refunded for the "crap coke he just snorted all of"
I recently ordered something but was unable to take it for a few days due to impending urine test. I finalised leaving a five (as the vendor had other good feedback) however when I came to try it it was obvious poor quality to the point I felt I'd been cheated. Fortunately I was dealing with a professional vendor who went out of his way to make things right, but if I hadn't been so lucky the inability to change my feedback would have been annoying.
(To make it clear I am not the kind of customer who would normally complain.I have 35+ transactions all of which have gone perfectly)
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JESSE..Are you at it again you illiterate Kosovan...The expression is "did I miss something?" not as you so comically put it.." do I miss something....
Yes you miss the point, you can't compete with English speaking vendors.