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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: mwarf on September 22, 2012, 02:30 pm

Title: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: mwarf on September 22, 2012, 02:30 pm
So last night I was hanging out with some good friends and one of them had a real hard time keeping themselves together after eating some shrooms. Kind of a new experience for me as I have never seen someone have such a bad trip before, they only dosed a minor amount, but for whatever reason there was no calming this person down. I prefer to ride things out on my trips, but having something around just for these instances would not be a bad idea I think. I am very lost with all the options out there, anyone have any input?
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: b0lixtrader on September 22, 2012, 02:41 pm
Xanax and klonopins

Valiums are great and I love them but they are weak and you start dosing them high to get the same effect real quick.  Then there's the greater chance you will get addicted to them.  Same thing with xanax so use it only when needed.  Clonazepam takes longer to hit but lasts 6-12 hours.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: shoehorn on September 22, 2012, 03:30 pm
2mg of Clonazepam equals roughly 40mg of valium so you got bang for your buck going for you as wiyh Clonazepam.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 22, 2012, 04:43 pm
2mg of Clonazepam equals roughly 40mg of valium so you got bang for your buck going for you as wiyh Clonazepam.

That conversion is not right. 1mg Kpin = .5mg xanax = 10mg valium

so 2mg clonazepam is roughly equal to 20mg diazepam, not 40.

Valium is my favorite by far, as far as just 'to have around' I would say diazepam definitely but they all have their distinct attributes depends on what you prefer.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: happyroller1234 on September 22, 2012, 08:36 pm
Xanax or Klonopin, definitely.
Valium is OK, too.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Pharmacopoeia on September 22, 2012, 10:04 pm
Flunitrazepam, now there's a serious benzo, mmmmm mmmm good (this coming from a benzo addict :( )
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on September 23, 2012, 12:41 am
Xanax is probably the best choice here: it's has very rapid onset and is available widely. It kicks in faster then valium does, and also breaks down a lot faster (the half life for valium and its metabolites is a whopping 2 days!).

Flunitrazepam would certainly be effective, but is more difficult to obtain due to its reputation as the 'date rape' drug.

Clonazepam is slower in onset time, so probably not preferred. Substances like nitrazepam and temazepam are good candidates too though, since their time of onset is usually fast, but their half life is not -that- long. Midazolam would probably also be preferable since it has both quick onset and quick breakdown, but its not a very common substance.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: ianfleming on September 23, 2012, 02:26 am
I've heard that Zyprexa is the best and only true trip KILLER
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: treeline on September 23, 2012, 02:35 am
clonazepam/klonopin takes longer to hit, but it has always worked the best for me during anxiety/panic ..... i know that's not exactly the same as a "bad trip" with mushrooms, but the clonazepam is long lasting & strong.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: fartsinthewind on September 23, 2012, 04:44 am
Alprazolam by far. It will kick in within 20 minutes.

Clonazepam doesn't work for me at all. One time i was coming down off crystal and all i had were some 2mg pins. I knocked down 7 of those within a two hour span and nothing. Had to close the deal with a half pint of vodka just to get some freakin shut eye
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on September 24, 2012, 12:38 am
clonazepam/klonopin takes longer to hit, but it has always worked the best for me during anxiety/panic ..... i know that's not exactly the same as a "bad trip" with mushrooms, but the clonazepam is long lasting & strong.

Its different indeed. Something like clonazepam is fine if you take take it a bit before you are going to do something that triggers anxiety.

One thing that made alprazolam so popular when it was introduced is its rapid onset of action. Taken on an empty stomach this can be as fast as 10 minutes to achieve 90% effectiveness. Surely this can be delayed if you just had a heavy meal, but even then it mostly takes full effect within an hour or so.

Substances like clonazepam and diazepam can be just as effective at lower cost in situations where you can afford to wait. In case of a rapid effect needed alprazolam is superior though, unless you are sure the person requiring treatment has not eaten for a while, in which case diazepam may be slightly faster.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: b0lixtrader on September 24, 2012, 01:20 am
One way to help speed up clonazepam absorption is to take it sublingually.  It will help absorb more of it as well.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: fartsinthewind on September 24, 2012, 03:24 am
One way to help speed up clonazepam absorption is to take it sublingually.  It will help absorb more of it as well.

Tried that. Took the first four sublingually, still nothing.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: mwarf on September 24, 2012, 06:36 am
Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts, I picked up a lot of good information. I decided to grab a hand full of Xanax and Alprazolam just to have around, who knows when it might come in handy. Cheers.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: flicky42 on September 25, 2012, 12:42 am
2mg of Clonazepam equals roughly 40mg of valium so you got bang for your buck going for you as wiyh Clonazepam.

That conversion is not right. 1mg Kpin = .5mg xanax = 10mg valium

so 2mg clonazepam is roughly equal to 20mg diazepam, not 40.

Valium is my favorite by far, as far as just 'to have around' I would say diazepam definitely but they all have their distinct attributes depends on what you prefer.

This post confuses me, firs,t kpin and xanax have the same potency. Second, Valium and diazepam are the same thing.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on September 25, 2012, 01:03 am
They are the same thing, but strictly Valium is produced by Roche or licensees, while the exact same substance manufactured by others is labeled 'benzodiazepam' or some creative house brand name. Considering substances by legit manufacturers they should all have identical effects.

As far as potency goes, alprazolam and clonazepam are almost identical, with the side note that alprazolam sets on a bit faster, and clonazepam takes a lot longer to be eliminated from your body.

When you are looking at relative potencies to other benzos, there is about a factor of 20 between alprazolam/clonazepam and diazepam, meaning that 0.5 mg of xanax is roughly as effective as 10 mg of diazepam for treating anxiety.

Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: TNY on September 25, 2012, 01:13 am
I absolutely love Midozolam and Alprazolam, their my favorite after testing most benzos.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: flicky42 on September 25, 2012, 01:19 am
They are the same thing, but strictly Valium is produced by Roche or licensees, while the exact same substance manufactured by others is labeled 'benzodiazepam' or some creative house brand name. Considering substances by legit manufacturers they should all have identical effects.

As far as potency goes, alprazolam and clonazepam are almost identical, with the side note that alprazolam sets on a bit faster, and clonazepam takes a lot longer to be eliminated from your body.

When you are looking at relative potencies to other benzos, there is about a factor of 20 between alprazolam/clonazepam and diazepam, meaning that 0.5 mg of xanax is roughly as effective as 10 mg of diazepam for treating anxiety.

This post doesn't confuse me.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on September 25, 2012, 01:22 am
I suppose most people will favor alprazolam due to its relatively short halflife and common availability.

While its not prescribed very often anymore in europe, it remains one of the most succesful drugs ever marketed, and for good reason.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: modest mouse on September 25, 2012, 04:56 am
Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts, I picked up a lot of good information. I decided to grab a hand full of Xanax and Alprazolam just to have around, who knows when it might come in handy. Cheers.

just to clarify... xanax is a brand of alprazolam, just sounds like are suggesting they are different.

and people react to specifc benzodiazepines differently, what works for one person may not work for another. some prefer kpins or even ativan... though id say one of the quickest acting are the banana sublingual clonotril


also, in reference to the equivalent dosages,  they very depending on the source you use.
-  some list kpin as twice the potency of alp, while some list them as the same.
 - certain ones list val as either ten or twenty times the potency of kpin and alp. in my experience i found 20 mg to be about the same as only 1 mg of alp, 10 mg barely had any effect...
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Pharmacopoeia on September 25, 2012, 03:10 pm
Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts, I picked up a lot of good information. I decided to grab a hand full of Xanax and Alprazolam just to have around, who knows when it might come in handy. Cheers.

just to clarify... xanax is a brand of alprazolam, just sounds like are suggesting they are different.

and people react to specifc benzodiazepines differently, what works for one person may not work for another. some prefer kpins or even ativan... though id say one of the quickest acting are the banana sublingual clonotril


also, in reference to the equivalent dosages,  they very depending on the source you use.
-  some list kpin as twice the potency of alp, while some list them as the same.
 - certain ones list val as either ten or twenty times the potency of kpin and alp. in my experience i found 20 mg to be about the same as only 1 mg of alp, 10 mg barely had any effect...

Hit the nail right on the head.

Clonazepam (Rivotril/Klonopin) is my favourite by far, yet most people hate it.

Alprazolam (Xanax) is garbage to me, every single vendor's alpraz i've taken is either just no effects to ... meh so so effects (eg. Oliver's powdered, which I KNOW is real, but nevertheless alprazolam just doesn't cut it for me)

Diazepam (Valium) has been meh so/so for me until I got some of BTG's stuff (their last batch), which I absolutely adored.

Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) that I got off a reputable vendor on here were garbage for me, of the ten strip after the first two tries of nothing happening I took FOUR and almost NOTHING.

With the amount of counterfeit garbage being sold and the person to person differences in effect, you really can't know what benzo's best for you until you try them all lol (and from reputable vendors).
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: TNY on September 25, 2012, 04:06 pm
Flunitrazepam, now there's a serious benzo, mmmmm mmmm good (this coming from a benzo addict :( )

Forgot that one, if there is anything in this worl that will "calm your buzz" its Flunitrazepam, i tried it twice, never again!! Couldnt remember a thing i did or said for three days, i had the same experience with Flurazepam, i love a good benzo buzz/wobble but Flunitrazepam and Flurazepam are pure absolute madness imo!
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on September 26, 2012, 01:17 am
Relative potencies are sometimes hard to interpret.

Where alprazolam vs diazepam is concerned, it depends on what aspect you are looking at:

- as an anxiolytic, alprazolam is about 20 times more potent compared to diazepam
- as a  hypnotic, alprazlolam is about 10 times more potent compared to diazepam

The muscle relaxant properties probably follow the figures stated for hypnotic properties.

Considering all that, the proper ratio's of efficacy per milligram just depend on the desired effect. If you consider diazepam to be the 'default benzo', its clear that alprazolam has a more anxiolytic profile. This is obviously beneficial if you take it against anxiety, but not that good if you take it against insomnia.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: modest mouse on September 26, 2012, 10:09 am
thats very interesting, i did not know that it was the anxiolytic vs hypnotic properties that varied in the equivalent dosages.

since i suffer from severe anxiety much of the high i get from benzos is the relief and relaxation of my worries melting away, which makes sense why i always considered xanax and kpins to be up to twenty times stronger mg for mg than valium.

(oh and in my last post i worded it incorrectly, making it sound like valium was stronger but i think everyone knew what i meant because i listed the doses too, just to clarify though) 
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on September 26, 2012, 11:22 pm
It's never too late to discover something :)

The mechanism of action of all benzodiazepines is comparable, but some are more anxiolytic where others are more hypnotic.

Also, development of tolerance to either aspect is different: it has been clearly demonstrated that tolerance towards the hypnotic effects of xanax develop fairly quickly, but tolerance towards the anxiolytic properties develops very slowly, or not even at all.

If you take xanax to treat anxiety this basically means that the drowsiness will subside after some time of use, while the reduction in anxiety remains. This is obviously good news for anyone taking it for anxiety problems, but bad news for those that take it mainly to fall asleep at night. Looking into the details of tolerance development is a good idea if you plan to take something to treat a medical problem compared to occasional recreational use.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: fartsinthewind on September 26, 2012, 11:50 pm
And if you're going alprazolam/xanax....i'd advise avoiding the TRANAX brand (india) and go with ksalol (serbian made) 1 mg's. These are the most potent i've found....possibly more potent than the blue footballs made my pfizer....
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on September 26, 2012, 11:57 pm
If they contain what it says on the label they should all be equally potent.

I've fround Trika branded tablets from india to be as effective as any other genuine brand ones. I have no experience with Tranax branded ones, but if they are up to spec, there is no reason assume they would be less (or nore) effective then ant other proper brand on the market.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 27, 2012, 12:02 am
thats very interesting, i did not know that it was the anxiolytic vs hypnotic properties that varied in the equivalent dosages.

since i suffer from severe anxiety much of the high i get from benzos is the relief and relaxation of my worries melting away, which makes sense why i always considered xanax and kpins to be up to twenty times stronger mg for mg than valium.

(oh and in my last post i worded it incorrectly, making it sound like valium was stronger but i think everyone knew what i meant because i listed the doses too, just to clarify though)

K pins aint no 20 times stronger than Valium hah, Ben is more referring to the MG : MG ratio than anything else I believe, which by no means suggests that the actual substance is 20 times stronger haha. Although Alprazolam is undeniably the strongest, I find K pins and Ativan a tie for the two weakest and Valium as mellow but awesome and slightly stronger than k pin per average dose, k pin does nothing to me.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: gestaltassault2 on September 27, 2012, 12:22 am
I'm gonna say Lorazepam just because nobody else has said it yet...lol

but yeah...2mg of Ativan and my brain was on mute for the next few hours...so yeah if you're trying to not think about shit for a few hour then Ativan is the ticket....
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 27, 2012, 12:39 am
I just said it was the weakest, but for anxiety relief they will all do the trick.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: modest mouse on September 27, 2012, 12:44 am
thats very interesting, i did not know that it was the anxiolytic vs hypnotic properties that varied in the equivalent dosages.

since i suffer from severe anxiety much of the high i get from benzos is the relief and relaxation of my worries melting away, which makes sense why i always considered xanax and kpins to be up to twenty times stronger mg for mg than valium.

(oh and in my last post i worded it incorrectly, making it sound like valium was stronger but i think everyone knew what i meant because i listed the doses too, just to clarify though)

K pins aint no 20 times stronger than Valium hah, Ben is more referring to the MG : MG ratio than anything else I believe, which by no means suggests that the actual substance is 20 times stronger haha. Although Alprazolam is undeniably the strongest, I find K pins and Ativan a tie for the two weakest and Valium as mellow but awesome and slightly stronger than k pin per average dose, k pin does nothing to me.

you obviously didnt even read my first post... where i clearly stated each benzo produces different effects depending on the person. just because you find valium to be stronger than kpin doesnt mean it actually is for everyone. i find kpins to be the strongest and most enjoyable and valium i hardly feel. 

Thanks everyone for sharing their thoughts, I picked up a lot of good information. I decided to grab a hand full of Xanax and Alprazolam just to have around, who knows when it might come in handy. Cheers.

and people react to specifc benzodiazepines differently, what works for one person may not work for another. some prefer kpins or even ativan... though id say one of the quickest acting are the banana sublingual clonotril


also, in reference to the equivalent dosages,  they very depending on the source you use.
-  some list kpin as twice the potency of alp, while some list them as the same.
 - certain ones list val as either ten or twenty times the potency of kpin and alp. in my experience i found 20 mg to be about the same as only 1 mg of alp, 10 mg barely had any effect...

i like ativan too, its just a bit weaker than xanax or kpin... but for relieving my anxiety it works great and i actually felt it produced more euphoria than the others for me.
if anyone else has tried nitrazepam - that was actually my favorite benzo i have done. it takes a larger dose than x k or a but it seemed to fuck me up more in a nice way...
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: BobSacamano1 on September 27, 2012, 01:25 am
I was referring to someone posting that because 20mg valium = 1mg xanax that xanax is a substance that is 20 times stronger than valium. That is simply false, extremely false, you just have to recalibrate the mg dosage and yes they are all unique and effect everyone differently im not suprised k pin is your favorite, I like it a lot I just require an abnormally high dose with that particular benzo to get a significant effect.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: modest mouse on September 28, 2012, 06:58 am
I was referring to someone posting that because 20mg valium = 1mg xanax that xanax is a substance that is 20 times stronger than valium. That is simply false, extremely false, you just have to recalibrate the mg dosage and yes they are all unique and effect everyone differently im not suprised k pin is your favorite, I like it a lot I just require an abnormally high dose with that particular benzo to get a significant effect.

I was the one who said that... and i just explained to you i was talking about the effects I FEEL, i said: "i always considered xanax and kpins to be up to twenty times stronger mg for mg than valium.". you cant tell me its false or wrong, because its my own personal experience.

what do you mean since 20 mg = 1mg its not twenty times stronger?  thats exactly what it means. FOR ME when comparing the anxiolytic properties they produce

i never said the potency of xanax is twenty times stronger than valium for everyone. please read my posts which i tried to quote for you

but even still i think that is exactly what it means. NOW talking about in general and not my experience: what do the equivalent dosages mean then??
even still the equivalent dosages for anxiolytic properties as Ben mentioned is 20 mg to 1 mg.  that seems to mean given the equivalent dosages the anxiolytic effects ARE twenty times stronger because you need twenty times more to produce the same effect (dont use your own experience or how strong they feel to you, i am talking about the equivalent dosages provided from sources being discussed earlier)

could you please explain to satisfy my curiosity what it means to "recalibrate the mg dosage"  and why it is false to phrase it saying one is twenty times stronger???  to me thats exactly what it means... twenty times the potency for anxiolytic effect or ten times stronger for hypnotic effect

(also those are averages and just because you may not have anxiety and the anxiolytic effects may have less impact on you, and that YOU need larger doses comparatively doesnt mean everyone does, so it doesnt mean its wrong to those who do feel that way, like me and the majority or the sources wouldnt list them as equivalent. and the "high" is a completely different matter - may be even less so but that is not what the equivalent doses are measuring) 
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: Ben on October 01, 2012, 01:55 am
These relative numbers come from blind trials mostly. Xanax turned out to be about 20 times more potent then valium in studies on people taking them for anxiety.

If you are taking them for some other purpose (hypnotic, muscle relaxant) you could find that the ratio between xanax and valium turns out to be quite a bit  lower. Xanax was primarily developed as an anxiolytic, so most properties and relative potencies focus only on that aspect.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: BobSacamano1 on October 01, 2012, 11:33 pm
These relative numbers come from blind trials mostly. Xanax turned out to be about 20 times more potent then valium in studies on people taking them for anxiety.

If you are taking them for some other purpose (hypnotic, muscle relaxant) you could find that the ratio between xanax and valium turns out to be quite a bit  lower. Xanax was primarily developed as an anxiolytic, so most properties and relative potencies focus only on that aspect.

I think we are confusing terminology here. Xanax is not 20 times stronger than Valium, period. If you adjust that statement and say, "Xanax is 20 times stronger than Valium >PER MILLIGRAM<"... Then yes, that is an accurate statement.

Which is why Valium is normally prescribed in 5mg or 10mg tablets and Xanax is usually prescribed in .5mg or 1mg tablets. Period, end of discussion. .5 X 20 = 10 get it? So one average Xanax pill is equal to one average Valium pill... (In my experience .5mg and 10mg are the two most commonly prescribed doses in the U.S. I've been prescribed both.)

If you are talking about raw material, thats one thing, but we are talking about pharmaceutical pills here.  A  standard dose of Valium is essentially equivalent to a standard dose of Xanax.  Its not like we are talking about codeine vs. heroin or something.

They are different, unique. Xanax does subjectively feel 'stronger' or heavier and is shorter acting, but the standard is set by what an average therapeutic dose is. Those would be .5mg:10mg which is equivalent according to any benzo equivalency chart that you will find on the net.
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: organon on October 01, 2012, 11:35 pm
I can only speak from personal experience whenever i was on a binger of coke or Meth the only thing that  shut the stupid never ending annoying thoughts and get me to sleep peacefully was xanax....when I'm using meth or coke with coke being  not my weapon of choice i always have it on hand for the inevitable comedown
Title: Re: Best Benzo to have around?
Post by: rexthered on October 02, 2012, 12:54 am
Depending on your intended use of them - for a comedown: Diazepam - it has a lengthy half life which gives you 24+ hours of anxiolysis cover, bu they stay in your system for well over a day after, meaning you must not drive/drink alcohol for something like two days after

for insomnia with or without drugs, and when you need to be functional the next day: Zaleplon (Sonata) - has extremely short half life (5 hours in your body)  which allows you to sleep and wake up with no remaining sedation, so you can drive and carry on life the next day. They are also somewhat psychedelic and quite fun by themselves and dont effect sleep architecture. Personally i would chose Zaleplon over any other sedative. 10mg is good for without drugs, whilst 20mg is better when you are taking them.

Midazolam, Zolpidem or Alprazolam (Xanax) are good for middle ground, roughly 10hr cover, probably the best choice if you want to sleep and have nothing to do the next day.


Also i find with serotonin drugs, adding 8mg Cyproheptadine - a sedating Anti-histamine with strong anti-serotoninergic effects, can bolster a single benzo, reducing your benzo intake and giving you more dreams and a better nights sleep.

Anti-psychotics such as prochlorperazine have anti-dopamine effects which can reduce the stimulation from things like amphetamines/meth/MDMA, and come in buccal tabs which go on your gum giving you rapid sedation.

hope this helps  8)