Silk Road forums

Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: farmer1 on June 18, 2013, 07:19 pm

Title: Edward Snowden
Post by: farmer1 on June 18, 2013, 07:19 pm
Edward Snowden is a bad-ass.


Snowden issued a stinging response to accusations from former Vice President Dick Cheney and others that he is a “traitor.” He said, “It’s important to bear in mind that I’m being called a traitor by men like former Vice President Dick Cheney. This is a man who gave us the warrantless wiretapping scheme as a kind of atrocity warm-up on the way to deceitfully engineering a conflict that has killed over 4,400 and maimed nearly 32,000 Americans, as well as leaving over 100,000 Iraqis dead.

“Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American, and the more panicked talk we hear from people like him, [Democratic Senator Dianne] Feinstein, and [Republican Representative Peter] King, the better off we all are. If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school.”
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on June 18, 2013, 07:40 pm
Thanks for posting! I love this guy!

+1
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: BruceCampbell on June 18, 2013, 08:38 pm
I've been following this guy for awhile and he gives me hope for the future. The US undoubtedly wants him dead, but he's gotten so much publicity that I think he's going to be trolling the US for quite some time.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: BlueSkiesRedEyes on June 18, 2013, 08:53 pm
I've been following this guy for awhile and he gives me hope for the future. The US undoubtedly wants him dead, but he's gotten so much publicity that I think he's going to be trolling the US for quite some time.

Going public is the best thing he could have done for his safety.  Besides getting the fuck out of the USA in the first place, of course.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: AustralianHash on June 19, 2013, 04:45 am
amen

depressing to see the character assassination already beginning, but also somewhat hopeful that only 50% of the public seem to be buying the governments lying bullshit
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Lucius Luv on June 19, 2013, 07:06 pm
not to rain on any parade, because i do appreciate his information.

but he's telling us absolutely nothing we shouldn't already know.    at this point in time, it's logical to think government want us to know we are all monitored; it allows fear and servitude to continue, because no solution is being offered. 
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: farmer1 on June 19, 2013, 07:21 pm
not to rain on any parade, because i do appreciate his information.

but he's telling us absolutely nothing we shouldn't already know.    at this point in time, it's logical to think government want us to know we are all monitored; it allows fear and servitude to continue, because no solution is being offered.


There are solutions to gov surveillance:
Tor, bitcoin, encryption, the SR, talking in person only, etc.
More to come!


Do not be afraid and do not be a servant.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Lucius Luv on June 19, 2013, 07:30 pm
^i don't see those as real solutions; although they are tools i love so much, they where created out of our fear of government.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: KintaroBC on June 19, 2013, 07:35 pm
NSA spying is not really news but for those to who it was Edward Snowden is a hero. I've always figured they're doing this shit, and many years ago there was a whistleblower talking about wire splits at ISPs for the NSA, and the most that happened is Dog's Barked.

I think we're facing so much evil people are only starting to see what good is. So this time the news set off alarm bells for us all. The fight is getting stronger, horrah!
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: SealTeam6 on June 19, 2013, 08:28 pm
This has been the norm in the U.S. for a while.  Funny how now that it's a black president, it's a scandal!  It's all smoke and mirrors folks, but I do still believe much good can come from it.  You cannot hide the truth forever.  This truth coupled with all the neg publicity the war on drugs is currently receiving has to lead to some sort of change. 
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: PerPETualMOtion on June 19, 2013, 11:24 pm
Slow down, guys. Please, slow down. First, my rant... then my deeper considerations.

1. Has Edward Snowden provided any proof of what he claims?

I'm not convinced. If he is legit, then I want to be convinced. I want evidence that what he describes is not only possible but being abused.

If there are communications that could be captured and deciphered, and those illegal wiretaps sniff out terrorists, then it should NOT be secret. We need to be shown that it isn't being abused.... (I believe that every system will always be abused... we're all too human.)... This is fucked at best, but Snowden is a media hound and a political tool until proven otherwise.

Terrorists... China... Big Brother... Fuck... I guess I really don't give a fuck in the end because I use 4096+ RSA, etc, etc. I'm not trying to overthrow the current world order...

2. Most of the human population will (probably) always be disadvantaged... What I want to do is equip those who want security with the tools to do so. I guess Snowden is the crusader that makes the need to take responsibility and action, so I'll give him that. He is a great scare monger. We need that. Not everyone on the Road is stepping up their own game in the face of adversity that we face. Most of us here already know the story that Snowden is telling, albeit with no proof (yet).

OK. But... NSA doesn't share their secrets with FBI, DHS, LEOs... It would reveal their power... their secrets. It would also create public nightmares like Snowden is claiming. NSA doesn't go after harmless marijuana users that find the Road to be a godsend from the old way of narcotic acquisition. They target geopolitical threats to US stability....... Jesus, this is getting to be a bigger post than I thought. Let me chew on that, and I'll wait for replies before continuing...
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: AustralianHash on June 19, 2013, 11:43 pm
Slow down, guys. Please, slow down. First, my rant... then my deeper considerations.

1. Has Edward Snowden provided any proof of what he claims?

I'm not convinced. If he is legit, then I want to be convinced. I want evidence that what he describes is not only possible but being abused.

If there are communications that could be captured and deciphered, and those illegal wiretaps sniff out terrorists, then it should NOT be secret. We need to be shown that it isn't being abused.... (I believe that every system will always be abused... we're all too human.)... This is fucked at best, but Snowden is a media hound and a political tool until proven otherwise.

Terrorists... China... Big Brother... Fuck... I guess I really don't give a fuck in the end because I use 4096+ RSA, etc, etc. I'm not trying to overthrow the current world order...

2. Most of the human population will (probably) always be disadvantaged... What I want to do is equip those who want security with the tools to do so. I guess Snowden is the crusader that makes the need to take responsibility and action, so I'll give him that. He is a great scare monger. We need that. Not everyone on the Road is stepping up their own game in the face of adversity that we face. Most of us here already know the story that Snowden is telling, albeit with no proof (yet).

OK. But... NSA doesn't share their secrets with FBI, DHS, LEOs... It would reveal their power... their secrets. It would also create public nightmares like Snowden is claiming. NSA doesn't go after harmless marijuana users that find the Road to be a godsend from the old way of narcotic acquisition. They target geopolitical threats to US stability....... Jesus, this is getting to be a bigger post than I thought. Let me chew on that, and I'll wait for replies before continuing...


I think he is legit, but i must agree on the NSA stuff.....they pretty much own the internet, and they definitely own TOR, because with a few million dollars i could own TOR, there simply is not enough exit nodes, mathematically, if only 10% of the 3000 odd exit nodes are compromised, you will exit from one of those corrupted nodes at least once a week if you log on every day. VPN may help, but i doubt it. In all probability i think the NSA already knows everyone on the road, down to your address and phone number, it's just not important enough to the NSA for them to do anything which might give away control to the people they are really after.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: farmer1 on June 20, 2013, 12:48 am
Slow down, guys. Please, slow down. First, my rant... then my deeper considerations.

1. Has Edward Snowden provided any proof of what he claims?

I'm not convinced. If he is legit, then I want to be convinced. I want evidence that what he describes is not only possible but being abused.

If there are communications that could be captured and deciphered, and those illegal wiretaps sniff out terrorists, then it should NOT be secret. We need to be shown that it isn't being abused.... (I believe that every system will always be abused... we're all too human.)... This is fucked at best, but Snowden is a media hound and a political tool until proven otherwise.

Terrorists... China... Big Brother... Fuck... I guess I really don't give a fuck in the end because I use 4096+ RSA, etc, etc. I'm not trying to overthrow the current world order...

2. Most of the human population will (probably) always be disadvantaged... What I want to do is equip those who want security with the tools to do so. I guess Snowden is the crusader that makes the need to take responsibility and action, so I'll give him that. He is a great scare monger. We need that. Not everyone on the Road is stepping up their own game in the face of adversity that we face. Most of us here already know the story that Snowden is telling, albeit with no proof (yet).

OK. But... NSA doesn't share their secrets with FBI, DHS, LEOs... It would reveal their power... their secrets. It would also create public nightmares like Snowden is claiming. NSA doesn't go after harmless marijuana users that find the Road to be a godsend from the old way of narcotic acquisition. They target geopolitical threats to US stability....... Jesus, this is getting to be a bigger post than I thought. Let me chew on that, and I'll wait for replies before continuing...


I think he is legit, but i must agree on the NSA stuff.....they pretty much own the internet, and they definitely own TOR, because with a few million dollars i could own TOR, there simply is not enough exit nodes, mathematically, if only 10% of the 3000 odd exit nodes are compromised, you will exit from one of those corrupted nodes at least once a week if you log on every day. VPN may help, but i doubt it. In all probability i think the NSA already knows everyone on the road, down to your address and phone number, it's just not important enough to the NSA for them to do anything which might give away control to the people they are really after.


When you use a hidden service you don't go through an exit node.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: PerPETualMOtion on June 20, 2013, 11:37 am
Slow down, guys. Please, slow down. First, my rant... then my deeper considerations.

1. Has Edward Snowden provided any proof of what he claims?

I'm not convinced. If he is legit, then I want to be convinced. I want evidence that what he describes is not only possible but being abused.

If there are communications that could be captured and deciphered, and those illegal wiretaps sniff out terrorists, then it should NOT be secret. We need to be shown that it isn't being abused.... (I believe that every system will always be abused... we're all too human.)... This is fucked at best, but Snowden is a media hound and a political tool until proven otherwise.

Terrorists... China... Big Brother... Fuck... I guess I really don't give a fuck in the end because I use 4096+ RSA, etc, etc. I'm not trying to overthrow the current world order...

2. Most of the human population will (probably) always be disadvantaged... What I want to do is equip those who want security with the tools to do so. I guess Snowden is the crusader that makes the need to take responsibility and action, so I'll give him that. He is a great scare monger. We need that. Not everyone on the Road is stepping up their own game in the face of adversity that we face. Most of us here already know the story that Snowden is telling, albeit with no proof (yet).

OK. But... NSA doesn't share their secrets with FBI, DHS, LEOs... It would reveal their power... their secrets. It would also create public nightmares like Snowden is claiming. NSA doesn't go after harmless marijuana users that find the Road to be a godsend from the old way of narcotic acquisition. They target geopolitical threats to US stability....... Jesus, this is getting to be a bigger post than I thought. Let me chew on that, and I'll wait for replies before continuing...


I think he is legit, but i must agree on the NSA stuff.....they pretty much own the internet, and they definitely own TOR, because with a few million dollars i could own TOR, there simply is not enough exit nodes, mathematically, if only 10% of the 3000 odd exit nodes are compromised, you will exit from one of those corrupted nodes at least once a week if you log on every day. VPN may help, but i doubt it. In all probability i think the NSA already knows everyone on the road, down to your address and phone number, it's just not important enough to the NSA for them to do anything which might give away control to the people they are really after.


When you use a hidden service you don't go through an exit node.

I don't want to split hairs, but TOR traffic can be captured like any other network traffic. The creators of TOR most likely monitor traffic, and we shouldn't get too confortable with the idea that we are entirely secure via hidden services.

Be vigilant.

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: kmfkewm on June 20, 2013, 12:35 pm
Slow down, guys. Please, slow down. First, my rant... then my deeper considerations.

1. Has Edward Snowden provided any proof of what he claims?

I'm not convinced. If he is legit, then I want to be convinced. I want evidence that what he describes is not only possible but being abused.

If there are communications that could be captured and deciphered, and those illegal wiretaps sniff out terrorists, then it should NOT be secret. We need to be shown that it isn't being abused.... (I believe that every system will always be abused... we're all too human.)... This is fucked at best, but Snowden is a media hound and a political tool until proven otherwise.

Terrorists... China... Big Brother... Fuck... I guess I really don't give a fuck in the end because I use 4096+ RSA, etc, etc. I'm not trying to overthrow the current world order...

2. Most of the human population will (probably) always be disadvantaged... What I want to do is equip those who want security with the tools to do so. I guess Snowden is the crusader that makes the need to take responsibility and action, so I'll give him that. He is a great scare monger. We need that. Not everyone on the Road is stepping up their own game in the face of adversity that we face. Most of us here already know the story that Snowden is telling, albeit with no proof (yet).

OK. But... NSA doesn't share their secrets with FBI, DHS, LEOs... It would reveal their power... their secrets. It would also create public nightmares like Snowden is claiming. NSA doesn't go after harmless marijuana users that find the Road to be a godsend from the old way of narcotic acquisition. They target geopolitical threats to US stability....... Jesus, this is getting to be a bigger post than I thought. Let me chew on that, and I'll wait for replies before continuing...


I think he is legit, but i must agree on the NSA stuff.....they pretty much own the internet, and they definitely own TOR, because with a few million dollars i could own TOR, there simply is not enough exit nodes, mathematically, if only 10% of the 3000 odd exit nodes are compromised, you will exit from one of those corrupted nodes at least once a week if you log on every day. VPN may help, but i doubt it. In all probability i think the NSA already knows everyone on the road, down to your address and phone number, it's just not important enough to the NSA for them to do anything which might give away control to the people they are really after.


When you use a hidden service you don't go through an exit node.

I don't want to split hairs, but TOR traffic can be captured like any other network traffic. The creators of TOR most likely monitor traffic, and we shouldn't get too confortable with the idea that we are entirely secure via hidden services.

Be vigilant.

Traffic to hidden services is end to end encrypted. I highly doubt the creators of Tor monitor traffic, and even if they tried to there would be no way for them to monitor much of it.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: preacherman444 on June 20, 2013, 08:04 pm
God this guy is awesome.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: leaf on June 21, 2013, 08:45 pm
I like snowden.  Seems legit.   But what if the media blitz to get people used to the idea?   The infosec(nsa) will always serve the highest bidders, regulations will not change anything.

Hidden service operators should be using only trusted HSdescriptors, this should reduce snoopability.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Miah on June 23, 2013, 10:44 am
Slow down, guys. Please, slow down. First, my rant... then my deeper considerations.

1. Has Edward Snowden provided any proof of what he claims?

I'm not convinced. If he is legit, then I want to be convinced. I want evidence that what he describes is not only possible but being abused.

If there are communications that could be captured and deciphered, and those illegal wiretaps sniff out terrorists, then it should NOT be secret. We need to be shown that it isn't being abused.... (I believe that every system will always be abused... we're all too human.)... This is fucked at best, but Snowden is a media hound and a political tool until proven otherwise.

Terrorists... China... Big Brother... Fuck... I guess I really don't give a fuck in the end because I use 4096+ RSA, etc, etc. I'm not trying to overthrow the current world order...

2. Most of the human population will (probably) always be disadvantaged... What I want to do is equip those who want security with the tools to do so. I guess Snowden is the crusader that makes the need to take responsibility and action, so I'll give him that. He is a great scare monger. We need that. Not everyone on the Road is stepping up their own game in the face of adversity that we face. Most of us here already know the story that Snowden is telling, albeit with no proof (yet).

OK. But... NSA doesn't share their secrets with FBI, DHS, LEOs... It would reveal their power... their secrets. It would also create public nightmares like Snowden is claiming. NSA doesn't go after harmless marijuana users that find the Road to be a godsend from the old way of narcotic acquisition. They target geopolitical threats to US stability....... Jesus, this is getting to be a bigger post than I thought. Let me chew on that, and I'll wait for replies before continuing...


I think he is legit, but i must agree on the NSA stuff.....they pretty much own the internet, and they definitely own TOR, because with a few million dollars i could own TOR, there simply is not enough exit nodes, mathematically, if only 10% of the 3000 odd exit nodes are compromised, you will exit from one of those corrupted nodes at least once a week if you log on every day. VPN may help, but i doubt it. In all probability i think the NSA already knows everyone on the road, down to your address and phone number, it's just not important enough to the NSA for them to do anything which might give away control to the people they are really after.


When you use a hidden service you don't go through an exit node.

I don't want to split hairs, but TOR traffic can be captured like any other network traffic. The creators of TOR most likely monitor traffic, and we shouldn't get too confortable with the idea that we are entirely secure via hidden services.

Be vigilant.

Traffic to hidden services is end to end encrypted. I highly doubt the creators of Tor monitor traffic, and even if they tried to there would be no way for them to monitor much of it.

kmfkewm I usually love your posts and I've learnt a great deal from them but I have to disagree with this and I think I even read this in one of your posts or replies. From what I understand and correct me if I'm wrong is everything on Tor is encrypted except the exit nodes so it wouldn't be that communications could be intercepted at that point and if it not encrypted it would be a bad situation. Also the Tor network can be analysed by your above average computer user with open source tools.Tor is a great tool don't get me wrong but it's not the holy grail of privacy and anonymity but it sure is a great step in the right direction. The other thing is I really don't like to say this but I think sometimes you overestimate the NSA. I know you guys think I'm stupid for saying that but I realize how powerful they are but for them to have ever User & Vendors contact info and a log of their activity seems far fethced to me at best. Granted they're powers of surveillance are astounding that would still take some serious effort and man hours to infiltrate the Tor Network and SR. With that being said though I'm sure if they had a reason or proper motivation they could bring the whole ship down in less than a week.  8)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: farmer1 on June 23, 2013, 06:02 pm
kmfkewm I usually love your posts and I've learnt a great deal from them but I have to disagree with this and I think I even read this in one of your posts or replies. From what I understand and correct me if I'm wrong is everything on Tor is encrypted except the exit nodes so it wouldn't be that communications could be intercepted at that point and if it not encrypted it would be a bad situation. Also the Tor network can be analysed by your above average computer user with open source tools.Tor is a great tool don't get me wrong but it's not the holy grail of privacy and anonymity but it sure is a great step in the right direction. The other thing is I really don't like to say this but I think sometimes you overestimate the NSA. I know you guys think I'm stupid for saying that but I realize how powerful they are but for them to have ever User & Vendors contact info and a log of their activity seems far fethced to me at best. Granted they're powers of surveillance are astounding that would still take some serious effort and man hours to infiltrate the Tor Network and SR. With that being said though I'm sure if they had a reason or proper motivation they could bring the whole ship down in less than a week.  8)


The answer to your question is that when using a Tor hidden service you don't go through an exit node. Your data is encrypted until it hits the SR.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: farmer1 on June 23, 2013, 07:04 pm
Snowden has landed in Moscow. Final destination....?

China just said "fuck you" to the US gov. I love it!
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Miah on June 23, 2013, 07:14 pm
Quote
The answer to your question is that when using a Tor hidden service you don't go through an exit node. Your data is encrypted until it hits the SR.

That wasn't my question but thank you.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: farmer1 on June 23, 2013, 07:49 pm
Quote
The answer to your question is that when using a Tor hidden service you don't go through an exit node. Your data is encrypted until it hits the SR.

That wasn't my question but thank you.

Upon review I now realize you didn't ask a question at all. I was referring to where you stated "correct me if I'm wrong."
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on June 23, 2013, 10:07 pm
China just said "fuck you" to the US gov. I love it!
Well, yes and no, farmer. You could say the chinese said "screw you, obummer". On the other hand, you could say they merely passed the buck, and did not purposely decide on doing something more forceful like granting him asylum (not that he'd take it, that's an unknown) maybe for reluctance to offend the US.

You could say that about them, as they are notorious for their fence-sitting.

But the more important aspect of all this, as I posted elsewhere today, is that the US is showing a remarkable weakness, and for a long time now. They are well on their way to becoming the archetypal paper tiger. They really can't do anything on the international arena. Those jingo dopes who keep parroting the line about world "leadership" really have their collective heads up their rectums.

In a sense this has been brewing since the end of WWII, but ever since Carter and Reagan and the rest of the keystone koppers it's been accelerating.

Who's afraid of the big, bad wolf? Not very many, and they're becoming fewer and fewer. Now that, I love!

goblin
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: BruceCampbell on June 23, 2013, 10:21 pm
I was terrified this guy was going to get snatched up in his sleep and taken to Cuba. It's so gangster he got ahold of Assange and got the fuck out of Hong Kong.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Croskin on June 23, 2013, 11:27 pm
1. Make acc named EdwardSnowden
2. request donations for living expenses and for personal trauma
3. Watch cash flow
4. Crack party at the Biggums place
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: BruceCampbell on June 24, 2013, 12:05 am
That would definitely not work. If he is in cahoots with wikileaks he's safe and they could raise money. He's surrounded by cameras and diplomats and lawyers and shit probably for his safety.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Croskin on June 24, 2013, 12:29 am
Meh, just daydreaming :) He definetly has some balls though... and it's great that this is finally being brung to light
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Miah on June 24, 2013, 01:32 am
Quote
It's so gangster he got ahold of Assange and got the fuck out of Hong Kong.

lol....That's so funny hearing the word gangsta and Edward Snowden in the same sentence. No but really though I really like hearing how Assange supports Edward Snowden and has his back. It's not just them two don't forget about Bradley Manning who's had his rights abused worse than supposed terrorists that the US have in custody. He has no right to legal counsel. Assange requested that he said his legal counsel to represent Mr.Manning and his request was denied due to the fact that Mr.Assange had a vested interest in the case! Well yeah like no shit that's why he wants to send his lawyer.

The U.S. government has made a mockery of our legal system and what our constitution stands for. They betrayed all those Americans that have fought and died for this country to preserve our rights to freedom and the pursuit of happiness. A person that tells the truth for the greater good of the people is persecuted and defamed and treated as an enemy of the state. Bradley Manning was just a transmitter of the truth but he has been treated worse than real enemies of our state. I am glad and happy that Snowden made it out of China and looks to be on his way to safe passage. It gives me hope that someone just maybe one person will be the one thing that will spark change and move people to action. The amount of courage and bravery that Snowden posses is very rare indeed in this day and age when everyone is just out for number one. Whatever happens now we know for sure things will never be the same. The whole world is watching now waiting for the US to resort to it's bullying tactics and fear mongering to achieve there end goal of a mass subservient population and sonner or later the bully always gets his ass kicked.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: 3r3 on July 05, 2013, 10:52 am
Quote
It's so gangster he got ahold of Assange and got the fuck out of Hong Kong.

lol....That's so funny hearing the word gangsta and Edward Snowden in the same sentence. No but really though I really like hearing how Assange supports Edward Snowden and has his back. It's not just them two don't forget about Bradley Manning who's had his rights abused worse than supposed terrorists that the US have in custody. He has no right to legal counsel. Assange requested that he said his legal counsel to represent Mr.Manning and his request was denied due to the fact that Mr.Assange had a vested interest in the case! Well yeah like no shit that's why he wants to send his lawyer.

The U.S. government has made a mockery of our legal system and what our constitution stands for. They betrayed all those Americans that have fought and died for this country to preserve our rights to freedom and the pursuit of happiness. A person that tells the truth for the greater good of the people is persecuted and defamed and treated as an enemy of the state. Bradley Manning was just a transmitter of the truth but he has been treated worse than real enemies of our state. I am glad and happy that Snowden made it out of China and looks to be on his way to safe passage. It gives me hope that someone just maybe one person will be the one thing that will spark change and move people to action. The amount of courage and bravery that Snowden posses is very rare indeed in this day and age when everyone is just out for number one. Whatever happens now we know for sure things will never be the same. The whole world is watching now waiting for the US to resort to it's bullying tactics and fear mongering to achieve there end goal of a mass subservient population and sonner or later the bully always gets his ass kicked.

Alleluia!
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: White 0ut on July 05, 2013, 11:18 am
Quote
It's so gangster he got ahold of Assange and got the fuck out of Hong Kong.

The U.S. government has made a mockery of our legal system and what our constitution stands for. They betrayed all those Americans that have fought and died for this country to preserve our rights to freedom and the pursuit of happiness. A person that tells the truth for the greater good of the people is persecuted and defamed and treated as an enemy of the state.

This!

Where is Snowden at now anyway?
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Miah on July 05, 2013, 04:41 pm
Well if you believe what you hear on the news he is still in Russia. Supposedly in some state of limbo. Not sure if I missed something but either they're trying to make his whereabouts really obscure cause they know where he is or they really don't know. On a side note a former russian spy has announced that she would like to marry Snowden. After reviewing her pictures I would say that's his get out of jail free card, she's pretty damn fine if I do say so myself.

Or also it could be the Russians have him somewhere secure, told the US to fuck off and that's not exactly something the US can let the whole world know about. Lot of angles to this situation.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on July 05, 2013, 10:17 pm
What disturbs me is the new mealy mouthed Putin. Snowden can stay in Russia if he "stops harming our US partners"??? What the fuck is that all about? What is Putin doing/being all of a sudden?
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Quazee on July 05, 2013, 11:50 pm
Seems most of the countries acted like they were going to help him, got their "fuck you to America" then moved on to being the goverments bitch again after the united states threatned them. We need to overturn these fuckers and start a decentralized darknet goverment.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: BruceCampbell on July 06, 2013, 12:37 am
Team Edward!

 ;D
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: weok83r8fd on July 06, 2013, 04:54 am
so awesome that two countries have opened up to this guy.  makes me sick that a fucking hero gets the cold shoulder from everyone.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: farmer1 on July 06, 2013, 08:06 am
so awesome that two countries have opened up to this guy.  makes me sick that a fucking hero gets the cold shoulder from everyone.

Yes, it is very good news.   :)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Quazee on July 06, 2013, 07:57 pm
so awesome that two countries have opened up to this guy.  makes me sick that a fucking hero gets the cold shoulder from everyone.
Wooo I hope it works out for him. I guess he has to get to an embassy now or those countries. I wonder if he is even actually in that russian airport/hotel. Seems like it would be pretty easy for him to go "missing" there.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 07, 2013, 01:42 pm
What disturbs me is the new mealy mouthed Putin. Snowden can stay in Russia if he "stops harming our US partners"??? What the fuck is that all about? What is Putin doing/being all of a sudden?

you know...  I thought the same thing...  and then I had a vague memory of having heard something just prior to Obama being re-elected about that he was overheard on an open mic talking to some assistant or someone like that to Putin and tried to remember what that was.  There's no way that I could remember it anywhere near word for word, but I believe that he (Obama) said something to the effect that it wouldn't be a problem for him to solve a lot of the issues between the U.S. and Russia and that missile defense would not be an obsticle either if Putin would just give him some space because after he is re-elected, he would have a lot more flexibility to maneuver....   

PLEASE don't quote me on that as I can assure you that I don't have the wording even close to exactly Obama's words, but I'm fairly sure that I described the basic concept that he seemed to be describing.  I had forgotten all about having heard that little snippet...  until the other day when I saw Putin on RT.com TV making that statement you described (through the voice of a translator of course).  Then I got the same kind of uneasy feeling I'd had when I had heard that bit that Obama said to whomever he was talking to that apparently was to convey the conversation to Putin.. then I sort of remembered it the way I tried to describe.  I wasn't sure what Obama was trying to say when he said it and I'm not any more sure now....  but I get the feeling it's not good but that it somehow is connected to Putin's "new attitude".

This is pure speculation on something I've only got a vague memory of that I'm not even sure what it meant, if anything.  But it bugs me so I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on this....
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 07, 2013, 02:07 pm
Well if you believe what you hear on the news he is still in Russia. Supposedly in some state of limbo. Not sure if I missed something but either they're trying to make his whereabouts really obscure cause they know where he is or they really don't know. On a side note a former russian spy has announced that she would like to marry Snowden. After reviewing her pictures I would say that's his get out of jail free card, she's pretty damn fine if I do say so myself.

Or also it could be the Russians have him somewhere secure, told the US to fuck off and that's not exactly something the US can let the whole world know about. Lot of angles to this situation.

Well, if it's mainstream media (unless it's something like a weather report or some other easily verified type thing), I generally don't believe what I hear on the propaganda shows that are listed as "news".  But that's not really my point.  I was just going to say that since I also see the same reports of him being "holed up" in a part of the airport in Moscow that somehow isn't actually in Russian Territory around various places online ... and have heard or seen no conflicting reports, I have to conclude that that story is in fact all that has been told to any media or other persons who may be able to publicize anything different.  So, either it is true... or, as I've been  wondering to myself...  maybe he has been gone from there for days now and has already found assylum somewhere..  and for whatever his reasons may be, he is keeping quiet about it for now at least.  This is just my own rambling thoughts and I hadn't planned on even mentioning it, but somehow it's starting to make more sense when it seems as if he now has several firm offers of assylum from a few Latin American Countries he supposedly applied to as well as one he didn't - Bolivia.  Yet, none of them have apparently heard from him as to whether he will accept their offers.

Seems like if he has truly been stranded in some sort of a limbo for over a week or more, that he would have been a bit quicker with the responses...

just some thoughts....
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on July 07, 2013, 10:11 pm
What disturbs me is the new mealy mouthed Putin. Snowden can stay in Russia if he "stops harming our US partners"??? What the fuck is that all about? What is Putin doing/being all of a sudden?
you know...  I thought the same thing...  and then I had a vague memory of having heard something just prior to Obama being re-elected about that he was overheard on an open mic talking to some assistant or someone like that to Putin and tried to remember what that was.  There's no way that I could remember it anywhere near word for word, but I believe that he (Obama) said something to the effect that it wouldn't be a problem for him to solve a lot of the issues between the U.S. and Russia and that missile defense would not be an obsticle either if Putin would just give him some space because after he is re-elected, he would have a lot more flexibility to maneuver.... 
Interesting. But Obama is the classic con man, just like Ralph Nader described him. He'll say ANYTHING to get people to be on his side, especially the stupid liberals, assholes every one of'em.

They're still waiting for him (and thinking he will!) to make a complete turnaround and dismantle Bush's semi-police state. I mean, how stupid can they be, when actually what he's done is increase it exponentially.

goblin
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Whistleblowers on July 08, 2013, 09:48 am
KILLING THE TRUTH TELLERS  :-*
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Herujuana on July 08, 2013, 02:46 pm
Slow down, guys. Please, slow down. First, my rant... then my deeper considerations.

1. Has Edward Snowden provided any proof of what he claims?

I'm not convinced. If he is legit, then I want to be convinced. I want evidence that what he describes is not only possible but being abused.

If there are communications that could be captured and deciphered, and those illegal wiretaps sniff out terrorists, then it should NOT be secret. We need to be shown that it isn't being abused.... (I believe that every system will always be abused... we're all too human.)... This is fucked at best, but Snowden is a media hound and a political tool until proven otherwise.

Terrorists... China... Big Brother... Fuck... I guess I really don't give a fuck in the end because I use 4096+ RSA, etc, etc. I'm not trying to overthrow the current world order...

2. Most of the human population will (probably) always be disadvantaged... What I want to do is equip those who want security with the tools to do so. I guess Snowden is the crusader that makes the need to take responsibility and action, so I'll give him that. He is a great scare monger. We need that. Not everyone on the Road is stepping up their own game in the face of adversity that we face. Most of us here already know the story that Snowden is telling, albeit with no proof (yet).

OK. But... NSA doesn't share their secrets with FBI, DHS, LEOs... It would reveal their power... their secrets. It would also create public nightmares like Snowden is claiming. NSA doesn't go after harmless marijuana users that find the Road to be a godsend from the old way of narcotic acquisition. They target geopolitical threats to US stability....... Jesus, this is getting to be a bigger post than I thought. Let me chew on that, and I'll wait for replies before continuing...

I worked for one of the largest state governments in the US, in a similar capacity as Snowden, and I can tell you firsthand that what he is revealing is ONLY THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG. Belive everything he says. Imagine waaaay more. It's being done. And yes, nsa does share their secrets. Government employees share information. IRS shares information. Our government is more blatantly corrupt than any throughout history.
And yes, government agencies ARE stupid, filled with stupid people who lack imagination. Spying on your citizens is not the way to gather intelligence. It's the easiest, which is why it's being done. And I'm afraid it will only get worse because as we all know, only half of the population belives it's going on. The other half has their heads up their ass, or simply choose to ignore it. It's the dumbing down of america.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on July 09, 2013, 01:38 pm
And yes, government agencies ARE stupid, filled with stupid people who lack imagination. Spying on your citizens is not the way to gather intelligence. It's the easiest, which is why it's being done. And I'm afraid it will only get worse because as we all know, only half of the population belives it's going on. The other half has their heads up their ass, or simply choose to ignore it. It's the dumbing down of america.
Yes, things usually go by way of the path of least resistance, the least friction. Spying on untold masses is the easiest thanks to the exponential increase in computing power. The hardest is simply thinking and the grind of plain old-fashioned detective work and footwork. These guys don't want to spoil their wing-tips.

There are no more Columbos.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 09, 2013, 05:43 pm
What disturbs me is the new mealy mouthed Putin. Snowden can stay in Russia if he "stops harming our US partners"??? What the fuck is that all about? What is Putin doing/being all of a sudden?
you know...  I thought the same thing...  and then I had a vague memory of having heard something just prior to Obama being re-elected about that he was overheard on an open mic talking to some assistant or someone like that to Putin and tried to remember what that was.  There's no way that I could remember it anywhere near word for word, but I believe that he (Obama) said something to the effect that it wouldn't be a problem for him to solve a lot of the issues between the U.S. and Russia and that missile defense would not be an obsticle either if Putin would just give him some space because after he is re-elected, he would have a lot more flexibility to maneuver.... 
Interesting. But Obama is the classic con man, just like Ralph Nader described him. He'll say ANYTHING to get people to be on his side, especially the stupid liberals, assholes every one of'em.

They're still waiting for him (and thinking he will!) to make a complete turnaround and dismantle Bush's semi-police state. I mean, how stupid can they be, when actually what he's done is increase it exponentially.

goblin

Yeah.....   he's one hell of a con man alright!  Embarassing as it is to me now, I actually fell for his [what I now know was BS] enthusiasm about restoring the country to the way the forfathers had envisioned it, blah blah blah... and went and voted for him....   the first time. 

I did manage to get a clue long before his second term election and didn't vote for anyone as I really wasn't into Romney either.. lol

Plus, you're right about that there are actually people who right now are still waiting for him to come through on his phoney campaign promises... although I honestly can't understand how even the slowest dimwit hasn't seen through him after Snowden got word of Obama's numerous crimes to the mainstream media...  exactly where it needs to be in order to reach the masses who watch mainstream and nothing but and believe that they are getting all their news there.....   
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on July 09, 2013, 06:34 pm
Plus, you're right about that there are actually people who right now are still waiting for him to come through on his phoney campaign promises... although I honestly can't understand how even the slowest dimwit hasn't seen through him after Snowden got word of Obama's numerous crimes to the mainstream media...  exactly where it needs to be in order to reach the masses who watch mainstream and nothing but and believe that they are getting all their news there.....
foxen624, you are absolutely right and we agree 100%.

On a completely different note, I find your avatar extremely disturbing. It's just that I can't quite make out what I'm looking at, kinda like when I'm on mushrooms sometimes, heh heh.

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 10, 2013, 09:19 am
Plus, you're right about that there are actually people who right now are still waiting for him to come through on his phoney campaign promises... although I honestly can't understand how even the slowest dimwit hasn't seen through him after Snowden got word of Obama's numerous crimes to the mainstream media...  exactly where it needs to be in order to reach the masses who watch mainstream and nothing but and believe that they are getting all their news there.....
foxen624, you are absolutely right and we agree 100%.

On a completely different note, I find your avatar extremely disturbing. It's just that I can't quite make out what I'm looking at, kinda like when I'm on mushrooms sometimes, heh heh.

Thank you for your excellent opinion of the things we agree on...   ;)

About my avatar...  hmmmm...  I picked it out in a hurry - didn't spend a whole lot of time on it.   Honestly, it's not one of my better ones at all, but I just uploaded it and forgot about it...    What I'm trying to figure out here now tho...   is if it's really my avatar that disturbs you?  or is it that you find being on mushrooms disturbing because they cause you to become confused when you look at things...    lolol..  :P     
(hope you know my remark was intended in good humor only)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Whistleblowers on July 12, 2013, 09:19 am
any updates on this young man? he still stuck in moscow?
bless the truth tellers  ;D
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Whistleblowers on July 12, 2013, 09:28 am
Well if you believe what you hear on the news he is still in Russia. Supposedly in some state of limbo. Not sure if I missed something but either they're trying to make his whereabouts really obscure cause they know where he is or they really don't know. On a side note a former russian spy has announced that she would like to marry Snowden. After reviewing her pictures I would say that's his get out of jail free card, she's pretty damn fine if I do say so myself.

Or also it could be the Russians have him somewhere secure, told the US to fuck off and that's not exactly something the US can let the whole world know about. Lot of angles to this situation.
spiking his water with L.S.D  to torture him :(
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Whistleblowers on July 12, 2013, 09:31 am
What disturbs me is the new mealy mouthed Putin. Snowden can stay in Russia if he "stops harming our US partners"??? What the fuck is that all about? What is Putin doing/being all of a sudden?

you know...  I thought the same thing...  and then I had a vague memory of having heard something just prior to Obama being re-elected about that he was overheard on an open mic talking to some assistant or someone like that to Putin and tried to remember what that was.  There's no way that I could remember it anywhere near word for word, but I believe that he (Obama) said something to the effect that it wouldn't be a problem for him to solve a lot of the issues between the U.S. and Russia and that missile defense would not be an obsticle either if Putin would just give him some space because after he is re-elected, he would have a lot more flexibility to maneuver....   

PLEASE don't quote me on that as I can assure you that I don't have the wording even close to exactly Obama's words, but I'm fairly sure that I described the basic concept that he seemed to be describing.  I had forgotten all about having heard that little snippet...  until the other day when I saw Putin on RT.com TV making that statement you described (through the voice of a translator of course).  Then I got the same kind of uneasy feeling I'd had when I had heard that bit that Obama said to whomever he was talking to that apparently was to convey the conversation to Putin.. then I sort of remembered it the way I tried to describe.  I wasn't sure what Obama was trying to say when he said it and I'm not any more sure now....  but I get the feeling it's not good but that it somehow is connected to Putin's "new attitude".

This is pure speculation on something I've only got a vague memory of that I'm not even sure what it meant, if anything.  But it bugs me so I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on this....
Obama said he would decriminalize medical marijuana then changed his mind.again.why?
Liars
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Whistleblowers on July 12, 2013, 09:33 am
what did Abraham Lincoln say !
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 13, 2013, 05:06 am
What disturbs me is the new mealy mouthed Putin. Snowden can stay in Russia if he "stops harming our US partners"??? What the fuck is that all about? What is Putin doing/being all of a sudden?

you know...  I thought the same thing...  and then I had a vague memory of having heard something just prior to Obama being re-elected about that he was overheard on an open mic talking to some assistant or someone like that to Putin and tried to remember what that was.  There's no way that I could remember it anywhere near word for word, but I believe that he (Obama) said something to the effect that it wouldn't be a problem for him to solve a lot of the issues between the U.S. and Russia and that missile defense would not be an obsticle either if Putin would just give him some space because after he is re-elected, he would have a lot more flexibility to maneuver....   

PLEASE don't quote me on that as I can assure you that I don't have the wording even close to exactly Obama's words, but I'm fairly sure that I described the basic concept that he seemed to be describing.  I had forgotten all about having heard that little snippet...  until the other day when I saw Putin on RT.com TV making that statement you described (through the voice of a translator of course).  Then I got the same kind of uneasy feeling I'd had when I had heard that bit that Obama said to whomever he was talking to that apparently was to convey the conversation to Putin.. then I sort of remembered it the way I tried to describe.  I wasn't sure what Obama was trying to say when he said it and I'm not any more sure now....  but I get the feeling it's not good but that it somehow is connected to Putin's "new attitude".

This is pure speculation on something I've only got a vague memory of that I'm not even sure what it meant, if anything.  But it bugs me so I'm wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on this....

Obama said he would decriminalize medical marijuana then changed his mind.again.why?
Liars

I think you answered your own question... Obama & Associates LIE... He is a great con man who isn't so great now that people are finally seeing through him... still..  he lies, lies and lies...  what can I say?  >:( @  lying, deceptive Obama!
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: heatcheck on July 15, 2013, 04:15 am

Obama said he would decriminalize medical marijuana then changed his mind.again.why?
Liars

Uhh, he never said that. What he did promise during his first campaign was to stop the DOJ and DEA from raiding dispensaries and such that were operating legally under their respective state laws. He did not keep this promise.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 15, 2013, 06:56 am

Obama said he would decriminalize medical marijuana then changed his mind.again.why?
Liars

Uhh, he never said that. What he did promise during his first campaign was to stop the DOJ and DEA from raiding dispensaries and such that were operating legally under their respective state laws. He did not keep this promise.

Actually, you're exactly right.  I ran across an article earlier today and it reminded me of this thread.  It is Titled:  Washington DC Considers Decriminalization of Marijuana.  And it refers to a local bill  apparently introduced by some Council members that seems to be still in the process and hasn't passed yet, also, it does not mention Obama in particular.  The article can be found on the *CLEARNET* at:

http://rt.com/usa/washington-consider-decriminalization-marijuana-026/

This is not to say that Obama is any less of a liar, but I suspect that the above mentioned article or one similar to it is what Whistleblowers is referring to...
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 15, 2013, 02:18 pm
whats secrets they trying to hide ?
 any ideas
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: tuna on July 15, 2013, 02:20 pm
oh common... he doesn't exist
what are you discussing it for?
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 15, 2013, 02:23 pm
oh common... he doesn't exist
what are you discussing it for?
like us   ;D
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: heatcheck on July 17, 2013, 04:49 am

Actually, you're exactly right.  I ran across an article earlier today and it reminded me of this thread.  It is Titled:  Washington DC Considers Decriminalization of Marijuana.  And it refers to a local bill  apparently introduced by some Council members that seems to be still in the process and hasn't passed yet, also, it does not mention Obama in particular.  The article can be found on the *CLEARNET* at:

http://rt.com/usa/washington-consider-decriminalization-marijuana-026/

This is not to say that Obama is any less of a liar, but I suspect that the above mentioned article or one similar to it is what Whistleblowers is referring to...

Yeah. Liar is a strong word. He is a politician and is bound by the whims of the public.

Its like he campaigned to shut down Guantanamo too. Its one of those things you say and then you get into office and someone brings you a brief that says why you really can't do that. So he changed his mind.

Though not raiding MJ dispensaries can't really be a national security risk, so the comparison is bad.

At the end of the day, he is a politician and therefore usually a hypocrite and probably a liar.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 21, 2013, 02:05 am

Actually, you're exactly right.  I ran across an article earlier today and it reminded me of this thread.  It is Titled:  Washington DC Considers Decriminalization of Marijuana.  And it refers to a local bill  apparently introduced by some Council members that seems to be still in the process and hasn't passed yet, also, it does not mention Obama in particular.  The article can be found on the *CLEARNET* at:

http://rt.com/usa/washington-consider-decriminalization-marijuana-026/

This is not to say that Obama is any less of a liar, but I suspect that the above mentioned article or one similar to it is what Whistleblowers is referring to...

Yeah. Liar is a strong word. He is a politician and is bound by the whims of the public.

Its like he campaigned to shut down Guantanamo too. It's one of those things you say and then you get into office and someone brings you a brief that says why you really can't do that. So he changed his mind.

Though not raiding MJ dispensaries can't really be a national security risk, so the comparison is bad.

At the end of the day, he is a politician and therefore usually a hypocrite and probably a liar.

I don't disagree with anything you said...  and yes, "liar" is a strong word, and the raiding or not raiding of state authorized dispensaries is not a matter of national security any more so than numerous other things of various natures that he doesn't want 'we the people' to know about so he claims "National Security" on anything he wants to keep secret regardless of whether or not it is.  And yes, politicians in general on all levels of government seem to make a lot of campaign promises that if elected are not kept.  Sadly, people have become so accustomed to this, that it's becoming almost universally accepted that that's just the way politicians are...  I personally don't feel that this is O.K. and is one of many reasons why I stopped voting quite a few elections ago...   except for one exception.  When Obama was campaigning in 2008, he came across as so sincere in so much of what he said, that I even got caught up in the enthusiasm and went and voted for him!  The first term he ran for..  then shortly after, it was disappointment after disappointment.. goes w/o saying, I didn't vote in the last election....

But back to what you wrote, the thing that bugs me most... is this excerpt:  ".... is bound by the whims of the public."  That is supposed to be exactly true.... but thing is...  he apparently is not bound whatsoever by the whims of the public, or he would not have been hiding the fact that he's been running a massive "program" to spy on every (or nearly) aspect of our lives...  and he would not be so enraged at the person who informed us of this.

A couple weeks after he first came into office, I don't now recall what it was that he supposedly did wrong, but I do remember that he apologized for it publicly by saying, "I screwed up".  If only he would say that about the whole NSA surveillance thing... and follow it up with putting a stop to it rather than defending it - a program which obviously is not what the public wants....    *sigh*
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: AirshipAdmiral on July 23, 2013, 09:01 am
Obama said he would decriminalize medical marijuana then changed his mind.

again.

why?

Liars

His skin may be black, but his belly...

... is yellow.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 23, 2013, 10:58 am
an arsehole is an arsehole but the truth is the truth
 sound like silk road , just drivel for the sheeep          bah bah
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 23, 2013, 11:23 am
yeah... yeah... lol...    still, it's about time now that he finally comes clean and admits that Harvard education or not...  he still can't spell worth shit.. at least one word which is a kind of important one.  He keeps harping away about the US being a d-e-m-o-c-r-a-c-y....  when most (hopefully) by now know that he's trying to say h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y...   or is he?  BTW...  don't pay much attention to this post 'cuz I'm really tired and rambling....  going to bed now.. carry on..  ;)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: AirshipAdmiral on July 23, 2013, 11:43 am
He keeps harping away about the US being a d-e-m-o-c-r-a-c-y.

Apparently, he doesn't know how to google.

America is not a democracy, it NEVER WAS.

It's a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy.

Lies and bullshit, that's what that is.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 24, 2013, 04:45 am

America is not a democracy, it NEVER WAS.

It's a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy.

Lies and bullshit, that's what that is.


You just about hit the nail on the head.  Only thing is that it WAS a constitutional republic...  way back when the founding fathers wrote the constitution.  But after decades of it being eroded away - most rapidly in the past 20+ years - pretty much all that's left is rule by corporations, over-empowered and semi-millitarized police and out of control alphabet soup government affiliates....

So...  yeah, it can still be pretty much summed up the same... Lies and bullshit :o
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Cork1Screw on July 24, 2013, 05:10 am
He keeps harping away about the US being a d-e-m-o-c-r-a-c-y.

Apparently, he doesn't know how to google.

America is not a democracy, it NEVER WAS.

It's a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy.

Lies and bullshit, that's what that is.

Sadly we seem to be turning into a democracy. Mob rule gentlemen, mob rule.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 24, 2013, 05:58 am

Sadly we seem to be turning into a democracy. Mob rule gentlemen, mob rule.

That's what's so  sad...  isn't government and mob really just two sides of the same coin?  Correct me if I wrongly assume that the government is not on the up and up and is crawling with corruption..  :P 
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 24, 2013, 06:06 am
BTW... being that this thread is called "Edward Snowden", I just now heard that he's about to receive some papers any minute to be able to leave the Moscow Airport and enter Russia while he waits the 3 months to find out if Russia approves his request for temporary assylum there...   He said he wants to stay a while there and find a job 'cuz if he tries to fly to Latin America in the near future, chances are that the US will find a way to ground the plane he's on...  so....   hey, I hope he makes out O.K... 
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Juggernog on July 24, 2013, 06:03 pm
what did Abraham Lincoln say !

a lot.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: hielonite on July 24, 2013, 10:37 pm
I mean for Fucks Sake, Obama won a god damn Nobel Peace Prize! For what??? He was in office for a couple of months. And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure a Nobel Peace Prize has been given to a former Terrorist (Yadamir Gudaffi sp?). God politics is fucking corrupt it's sickening.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on July 24, 2013, 10:54 pm
I mean for Fucks Sake, Obama won a god damn Nobel Peace Prize! For what??? He was in office for a couple of months. And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure a Nobel Peace Prize has been given to a former Terrorist (Yadamir Gudaffi sp?). God politics is fucking corrupt it's sickening.
There's a long history of giving Nobel peace prizes to war criminals. Remember Henry Kissinger?

And just last year, cognitive dissonance time: the Euro Union???
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 25, 2013, 12:31 am
the truth is very easy to hide but very hard to find ..work that out or ....... at least try all  ;D
we will always remember buddy and thanks(for what)  ;)
good luck and om  ;)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 25, 2013, 01:25 am
Edward Snowden is a hero  ;) the NSA and the rest  :-X  :-\ are the criminals  :'(    find out the truth all.. I dare you(but remember can and will you be able to handle it )
either way


Edward Snowden is a hero                       remember that !
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Juggernog on July 25, 2013, 01:55 am
is there any more information about him on the deepweb?
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 25, 2013, 08:15 am
is there any more information about him on the deepweb?
staying in russia   ;D for a ..... year  8)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 25, 2013, 09:09 am
I mean for Fucks Sake, Obama won a god damn Nobel Peace Prize! For what??? He was in office for a couple of months. And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure a Nobel Peace Prize has been given to a former Terrorist (Yadamir Gudaffi sp?). God politics is fucking corrupt it's sickening.
There's a long history of giving Nobel peace prizes to war criminals. Remember Henry Kissinger? 
And just last year, cognitive dissonance time: the Euro Union???

No shit... . and do you guys know who received the very first Nobel Peace Prize?  I forget his name, but it was the guy who invented the first atomic bomb...   true story...  so much for their interpretation of "peace"...


is there any more information about him on the deepweb?
staying in russia   ;D for a ..... year  8)

Really?  That's Great!  Last I heard his papers had not gone through as expected that were going to allow him to leave the airport - that his lawyer was told at the last minute that they were still considering whether to accept the application due to extreme and unusual circumstances surrounding him.  Was gone all day after my last post here and just woke up not that long ago... so, good to wake up and see some good news for someone deserving :D
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 25, 2013, 09:19 am
who knows  ;) but good luck and  bless him ..  Edward Snowden is a HERO !
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on July 25, 2013, 09:34 am
In my eyes he sure is a  H E R O :D    .....  and on this one, I know I'm not alone in feeling this way ;)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: hielonite on July 25, 2013, 04:11 pm
who knows  ;) but good luck and  bless him ..  Edward Snowden is a HERO !

Since Joolz did not cite his source, I can't take his word for it....
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on July 26, 2013, 10:20 am
we are with you brother  8)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on August 01, 2013, 11:38 pm
Snowden was granted asylum today and has left the transit zone of Moscow Airport and is free to roam about and be a perpetual thorn in the paw of the US Government.

Fuck yeah Russia. Putin don't give a fuck.
Let's hope he doesn't roam about else he might be kidnapped and rendered back to the bad ole US of Assholes.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Gengar17 on August 02, 2013, 01:36 am
Snowden was granted asylum today and has left the transit zone of Moscow Airport and is free to roam about and be a perpetual thorn in the paw of the US Government.

Fuck yeah Russia. Putin don't give a fuck.

This right here.  ;D If not Russia, it would have been someone else. America is making more enemies than friends, I only hope the butthurt continues.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Wepromisetwenty on August 02, 2013, 11:12 am
Woohoo, Snowden!

Heres the latest from Eddie - ( from *CLEARNET* http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden )

The US government has paid at least £100m to the UK spy agency GCHQ over the last three years to secure access to and influence over Britain's intelligence gathering programmes.

The top secret payments are set out in documents which make clear that the Americans expect a return on the investment, and that GCHQ has to work hard to meet their demands. "GCHQ must pull its weight and be seen to pull its weight," a GCHQ strategy briefing said.

The funding underlines the closeness of the relationship between GCHQ and its US equivalent, the National Security Agency. But it will raise fears about the hold Washington has over the UK's biggest and most important intelligence agency, and whether Britain's dependency on the NSA has become too great.

In one revealing document from 2010, GCHQ acknowledged that the US had "raised a number of issues with regards to meeting NSA's minimum expectations". It said GCHQ "still remains short of the full NSA ask".

Ministers have denied that GCHQ does the NSA's "dirty work", but in the documents GCHQ describes Britain's surveillance laws and regulatory regime as a "selling point" for the Americans.

The papers are the latest to emerge from the cache leaked by the American whistleblower Edward Snowden, the former NSA contractor who has railed at the reach of the US and UK intelligence agencies.

Snowden warned about the relationship between the NSA and GCHQ, saying the organisations have been jointly responsible for developing techniques that allow the mass harvesting and analysis of internet traffic. "It's not just a US problem," he said. "They are worse than the US."

As well as the payments, the documents seen by the Guardian reveal:

• GCHQ is pouring money into efforts to gather personal information from mobile phones and apps, and has said it wants to be able to "exploit any phone, anywhere, any time".

• Some GCHQ staff working on one sensitive programme expressed concern about "the morality and ethics of their operational work, particularly given the level of deception involved".

• The amount of personal data available to GCHQ from internet and mobile traffic has increased by 7,000% in the past five years – but 60% of all Britain's refined intelligence still appears to come from the NSA.

• GCHQ blames China and Russia for the vast majority of cyber-attacks against the UK and is now working with the NSA to provide the British and US militaries with a cyberwarfare capability.

The details of the NSA payments, and the influence the US has over Britain, are set out in GCHQ's annual "investment portfolios". The papers show that the NSA gave GCHQ £22.9m in 2009. The following year the NSA's contribution increased to £39.9m, which included £4m to support GCHQ's work for Nato forces in Afghanistan, and £17.2m for the agency's Mastering the Internet project, which gathers and stores vast amounts of "raw" information ready for analysis.

The NSA also paid £15.5m towards redevelopments at GCHQ's sister site in Bude, north Cornwall, which intercepts communications from the transatlantic cables that carry internet traffic. "Securing external NSA funding for Bude has protected (GCHQ's core) budget," the paper said.

In 2011/12 the NSA paid another £34.7m to GCHQ.

The papers show the NSA pays half the costs of one of the UK's main eavesdropping capabilities in Cyprus. In turn, GCHQ has to take the American view into account when deciding what to prioritise.

A document setting out GCHQ's spending plans for 2010/11 stated: "The portfolio will spend money supplied by the NSA and UK government departments against agreed requirements."

Other documents say the agency must ensure there has been "an appropriate level of contribution … from the NSA perspective".

The leaked papers reveal that the UK's biggest fear is that "US perceptions of the … partnership diminish, leading to loss of access, and/or reduction in investment … to the UK".

When GCHQ does supply the US with valuable intelligence, the agency boasts about it. In one review, GCHQ boasted that it had supplied "unique contributions" to the NSA during its investigation of the American citizen responsible for an attempted car bomb attack in Times Square, New York City, in 2010.

No other detail is provided – but it raises the possibility that GCHQ might have been spying on an American living in the US. The NSA is prohibited from doing this by US law.

Asked about the payments, a Cabinet Office spokesman said: "In a 60-year alliance it is entirely unsurprising that there are joint projects in which resources and expertise are pooled, but the benefits flow in both directions."

A senior security source in Whitehall added: "The fact is there is a close intelligence relationship between the UK and US and a number of other countries including Australia and Canada. There's no automaticity, not everything is shared. A sentient human being takes decisions."

Although the sums represent only a small percentage of the agencies' budgets, the money has been an important source of income for GCHQ. The cash came during a period of cost-cutting at the agency that led to staff numbers being slashed from 6,485 in 2009 to 6,132 last year.

GCHQ seems desperate to please its American benefactor and the NSA does not hold back when it fails to get what it wants. On one project, GCHQ feared if it failed to deliver it would "diminish NSA's confidence in GCHQ's ability to meet minimum NSA requirements". Another document warned: "The NSA ask is not static and retaining 'equability' will remain a challenge for the near future."

In November 2011, a senior GCHQ manager working in Cyprus bemoaned the lack of staff devoted to one eavesdropping programme, saying: "This is not sustainable if numbers reduce further and reflects badly on our commitments to the NSA."

The overriding necessity to keep on the right side of the US was revealed in a UK government paper that set out the views of GCHQ in the wake of the 2010 strategic defence and security review. The document was called: "GCHQ's international alliances and partnerships: helping to maintain Britain's standing and influence in the world." It said: "Our key partnership is with the US. We need to keep this relationship healthy. The relationship remains strong but is not sentimental. GCHQ must pull its weight and be seen to pull its weight."

Astonishingly, the document admitted that 60% of the UK's high-value intelligence "is based on either NSA end-product or derived from NSA collection". End product means official reports that are distillations of the best raw intelligence.

Another pitch to keep the US happy involves reminding Washington that the UK is less regulated than the US. The British agency described this as one of its key "selling points". This was made explicit two years ago when GCHQ set out its priorities for the coming years.

"We both accept and accommodate NSA's different way of working," the document said. "We are less constrained by NSA's concerns about compliance."

GCHQ said that by 2013 it hoped to have "exploited to the full our unique selling points of geography, partnerships [and] the UK's legal regime".

However, there are indications from within GCHQ that senior staff are not at ease with the rate and pace of change. The head of one of its programmes warned the agency was now receiving so much new intelligence that its "mission management … is no longer fit for purpose".

In June, the government announced that the "single intelligence account" fund that pays for GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 would be increased by 3.4% in 2015/16. This comes after three years in which the SIA has been cut from £1.92bn to £1.88bn. The agencies have also been told to make £220m savings on existing programmes.

The parliamentary intelligence and security committee (ISC) has questioned whether the agencies were making the claimed savings and said their budgets should be more rigorously scrutinised to ensure efficiencies were "independently verifiable and/or sustainable".

The Snowden documents show GCHQ has become increasingly reliant on money from "external" sources. In 2006 it received the vast majority of its funding directly from Whitehall, with only £14m from "external" funding. In 2010 that rose to £118m and by 2011/12 it had reached £151m. Most of this comes from the Home Office.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on August 02, 2013, 11:39 am
Heard/read all that too, Wepromisewenty - so happy for Ed Snowden! ;D   He WAS/IS responsible when letting the people know what everyone has the right to know about who else is reading/listening to what they are saying privately to the person(s) they communicate with.  The NSA & other related government agencies have NO right to be reading/listening to anything not addressed to them and it was making me sick how all the stories - especially mainstream were like deliberately ignoring the proverbial "elephant in the room" and trying to make it all about Snowden and whether or not he's a hero or traitor (the answer to that imo has always been obvious - HERO!)

Anyway, I really do hope that he will stay safe.  Am sure he is very aware that he needs to be careful - US alphabet soup types are crawling all over the globe anyway, and surely are in great numbers in Russia right now.  At the same time, should he be hit by a drone strike or even an assassin, surely suspicion will be put immediately on Obama and he's already looking pretty bad in the eyes of a lot of people..  hopefully he knows better than to go on the attack..   although I must admit, the thought of how pissed he must be really be at having not gotten his way and especially that is is so publicly known.. is at the least, amusing.  And that bitch Diane Feinstein must be just livid!  Good to see karma in action.  Snowden got his assylum, those who knowingly ignored the constitution and set up the huge spying operation and tried to keep it secret got caught, are totally embarrassed (and rightfully so) can't do a damn thing about it..  ha ha!

Never been much of a fan of Putin, but might be starting to like him a bit more..  ;)

Stay Safe Edward Snowen!  You are truly courageous and a real Hero to so many!!! ;D
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Wepromisetwenty on August 02, 2013, 12:17 pm
Never been much of a fan of Putin, but might be starting to like him a bit more..  ;)

Same here, and I'm still not a fan - but however much I disagree with the current state of affairs in Russia, their Government's reluctance to co-operate with the Americans at every turn, like so many others do, isn't misplaced.

Every cloud eh?
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 02, 2013, 07:37 pm
Snowden is 80% hero. Not only has he blown the whistle on the NSA and exposed DC's overreach, he's also had the balls to tell the world who he is and why he's doing what he's doing. He didn't try to dump what he knows anonymously and hope not to get caught. He identified himself and explained his honourable motives. He's on a martyr's path, not that of a criminal.   

Compare to Assange...hrm, bit of a blowhard. He's a middleman. A smart middleman, sure. But he'd be nothing without people like Snowden (even though it could be argued that the precedent Assange set made the Snowden revolution possible) and Bradley Manning. Not that Manning's a greatly important or admirable character. If he actually leaked something more than a whole lot of juicy diplomatic gossip which is ultimately of little consequence I might have a bit more respect for him. And of course he only started banging the liberty drum once he was caught. Kind of undermines your credibility a bit, Brad.

All in all, when it comes to gravitas, Snowden is The Economist while Manning is the National Enquirer.

There is a black mark on Snowden, though - why did he shop the US out to China? Yes I know the US does some bad shit, but sometimes you got to take sides and I'll tell you what - the Chinese will do whatever it takes. They are at an economic and technical disadvantage to the US when it comes to intelligence gathering, but they don't want to catch up - they want to surpass. They'll do whatever it takes.  Personally, if the NSA, CIA and their allied intelligence services WEREN'T hacking the shit out of the Chinese government's networks and their proxies and finding out exactly what those guys are up to, then they should all lose their jobs. That's the kind of shit they need to be focussing on, not listening to mobile phone conversations between two German housewives.

And now Snowden's in Russia. Initially I thought it was a disaster for the US - I'm sure Snowden will have to have every piece of intelligence he holds to the FSB, if they haven't already taken it. What a disaster if Snowden gave the Russians a tranche of top secret information.

Then again, maybe it's not so bad. It isn't in Russia's interests to tell the rest of the world what they've learnt from Snowden. The Americans don't yet know exactly what Snowden's got up his sleeve. If the Russians show their hand, the Americans can change strategy and the Russians will lose their advantage. But if the Americans don't know what the Russians know, they won't know where to look.  If Snowden has provided intelligence to the Russians, it would be very much in the Russian interest to keep what they know to themselves.

Putin: he's perhaps the world's richest man (see what you can find out about an oil broking firm based in Switzerland called Gunvor) in a country that's going to be utterly fucked by the end of this century.

Let's consider China and Russia. Do they have admirable political systems? Good god no. They are truly fucked, hideous. The ruling elite in those countries create despair.

What about the US? It's a nice idea that worked for a time but some wankers fucked with the formula and now it's disappointing.

But in disappointment we have the possibility of something better, because the formula's still there. The tree of liberty hasn't been watered enough recently, and consequently we have people like Barack W Obusha, and the Republic's a pale imitation of what it should be. But that tree of liberty's a tough plant and it can wait for water.

 You can't say that for Russia or China.  Despair.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 02, 2013, 07:59 pm
 their Government's reluctance to co-operate with the Americans at every turn, like so many others do, isn't misplaced

No, it is misplaced from the perspective of you and myself. They don't co-operate with the Americans at every turn because they have their own agenda, which I suspect you wouldn't be a big fan of.

Consider the following.

You observe Party A attempting to rape Party B. Suddenly, Party C steps in and prevents Party A from raping Party B.

You applaud Party C, because it looks as though Party C acted to stop Party A because they objected to the violation of Party B.

But what if Party C acted to stop Party A because they wanted to rape Party B instead? And probably do some more stuff besides. Maybe I'm cynical, but this is Putin's Russia, unfortunately.

Lesser of two evils? The US is less evil.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on August 03, 2013, 02:59 am
Lesser of two evils? The US is less evil.
You sure about that? Killer drones (signature strikes, double tap strikes, widespread collateral killing of civilians), rendition, indefinite incarceration without trial, execution without as much as an indictment much less a trial (Al Awlaki, his 16 year old son Abdulrahman), exceedingly intrusive spying on EVERYBODY.

Not to mention ever greater militarization of society, the rise of the warrior cop, cruel treatment in prisons (Lynne Stewart ring a bell?), preferring to bail out rich institutions and corporations but no extra money for the poor and old and homneless.

And history: Vietnam, secret bombings of Cambodia and Laos, goading of the USSR to invade Afghanistan. And do I really  need to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Lesser evil? My ass!

goblin
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: helpmywife on August 03, 2013, 06:05 am
what did Abraham Lincoln say !

hey,hey,hey! Abe was the man!thats why the government killed him like everone else who makes a difference!#just sayin
and i aggree snowden is a TRUE AMERICAN!
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on August 03, 2013, 07:05 am
Think it's really great for him too... how his father is totally sticking up for him and supporting him...  I bet that goes a long way right now with him...  :)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Wepromisetwenty on August 03, 2013, 10:28 am
their Government's reluctance to co-operate with the Americans at every turn, like so many others do, isn't misplaced

No, it is misplaced from the perspective of you and myself. They don't co-operate with the Americans at every turn because they have their own agenda, which I suspect you wouldn't be a big fan of.

I'm well aware of their agenda, hence the comment "Every Cloud, eh?". I was just saying, not being a fucking sheep, regardless of the motive behind it, has on this occasion shown a bit of merit.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 03, 2013, 11:52 am
"Lesser evil? My ass!"

Hrm. Saying that illustrates pretty clearly that you don't know much about authoritarianism in China and Russia.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on August 03, 2013, 11:57 pm
 ;)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on August 04, 2013, 08:23 am
Regardless of whether the US or Russia is the lesser of the evils, at least he's safe (for now at least) from the greatest evil of all...   prison/absolute lack of freedom....  :o

Oh, and metacontxt, I like the way you've re-named the prez...  very fitting.. :P
consequently we have people like  Barack W Obusha
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on August 04, 2013, 04:09 pm
Ofuckma
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: sausage and mash on August 05, 2013, 04:00 pm
Personally i don't believe any of the countries are better or worse, there all run by the same people who distort the reality to keep control of the global population we have bad countries that are used as examples to put the fear of god into the western world but the reality is its all constructed.

Its my opinion, now, that Edward Snowdon is fake to reveal the secret dealings of the NSA in a Hollywood sensationalized way, (spy brakes cover to expose secret evil dealings of government, its a great storyline) i was a believer in his releases and his speech on the invasion of privacy really got me thinking he was a good guy and hoped that he would reveal some really interesting stuff but his acceptance of the offer of asylum in Russia as long as he stopped releasing the information proves to me hes more interested in personal safety than revealing the evils of the government. If he started he should have finished, like Mr Manning.

Also incidentally, has anybody heard from him since the plane crash in china?
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on August 05, 2013, 04:50 pm
Also incidentally, has anybody heard from him since the plane crash in china?
Heard from Snowden you mean? And what plane crash?
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 05, 2013, 07:46 pm
"Personally i don't believe any of the countries are better or worse, there all run by the same people who distort the reality to keep control of the global population we have bad countries that are used as examples to put the fear of god into the western world but the reality is its all constructed."

The problem with this theory is that there is no solid evidence to back it up. And no, please don't send to to a prisonplanet URL.

I've lived in some of the countries I mentioned above. And I can tell you they're worse. A lot worse. Unless my lying eyes were deceiving me.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: sausage and mash on August 05, 2013, 09:20 pm
"Personally i don't believe any of the countries are better or worse, there all run by the same people who distort the reality to keep control of the global population we have bad countries that are used as examples to put the fear of god into the western world but the reality is its all constructed."

The problem with this theory is that there is no solid evidence to back it up. And no, please don't send to to a prisonplanet URL.

I've lived in some of the countries I mentioned above. And I can tell you they're worse. A lot worse. Unless my lying eyes were deceiving me.

Im not sure what evidence you need?
You have mentioned about the ruling elite in china, they have the power to change the way thing are, its no secret there is a collection of elite industrialist that control all of the global banking systems, economies and markets, the use of the media manipulation and propaganda is also a well known method of playing one nation/race/religion off against each other, its been tried and tested throughout history.
This is the reality they manipulate , our reality, evidence for that is at your local bar where you cant smoke anymore, or at the fuel pump where the prices are increasing more times than there dropping or why you have to run a gauntlet of security agencies, risking you freedom just to have a bit of you time with some mind altering substances....its all constructed.
Sure some countries are worse than others, iv seen some of it first hand to, from extreme poverty to extreme wealth and the one thing that has been constant in those and most countries has been government corruption and manipulation of the population for monetary gain.
Wether you here or there you have very little control of the world around you.

The plain crash was a week ago, hes been seen since.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 06, 2013, 05:01 am
"its no secret there is a collection of elite industrialist that control all of the global banking systems, economies and markets, the use of the media manipulation and propaganda is also a well known method of playing one nation/race/religion off against each other, its been tried and tested throughout history. "

Just saying "it's no secret" is not actually evidence of the existence of the Bilderberg/Rothschilds/Skull and Bones type conspiracy that you claim controls society.

evidence for that is at your local bar where you cant smoke anymore, or at the fuel pump where the prices are increasing more times than there dropping or why you have to run a gauntlet of security agencies, risking you freedom just to have a bit of you time with some mind altering substances....its all constructed.

Yes, the nanny state is a big problem*, but again you have no evidence that our reality is coordinated, Godfather-like, by some hidden cabal that manipulates us all.

*and the root cause of this is uninformed populism combined with well-meaning do-gooders who are unable to quantify risk in concert with the good old will to power of the political class which is far from covert
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: Romero on August 06, 2013, 06:12 am
i was a believer in his releases and his speech on the invasion of privacy really got me thinking he was a good guy and hoped that he would reveal some really interesting stuff but his acceptance of the offer of asylum in Russia as long as he stopped releasing the information proves to me hes more interested in personal safety than revealing the evils of the government.

I think you're way out of line to say something like that. What in the world would you do to help Snowden if he was extradited because he refused to stop releasing information? Nothing. No one would do anything to significantly help him. If you don't want to help him, if you're not down to lose your life to help him, then you're in no position to say he should've risked his life (especially after he already risked his life).
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: sausage and mash on August 06, 2013, 03:16 pm
"its no secret there is a collection of elite industrialist that control all of the global banking systems, economies and markets, the use of the media manipulation and propaganda is also a well known method of playing one nation/race/religion off against each other, its been tried and tested throughout history. "

Just saying "it's no secret" is not actually evidence of the existence of the Bilderberg/Rothschilds/Skull and Bones type conspiracy that you claim controls society.

evidence for that is at your local bar where you cant smoke anymore, or at the fuel pump where the prices are increasing more times than there dropping or why you have to run a gauntlet of security agencies, risking you freedom just to have a bit of you time with some mind altering substances....its all constructed.

Yes, the nanny state is a big problem*, but again you have no evidence that our reality is coordinated, Godfather-like, by some hidden cabal that manipulates us all.

*and the root cause of this is uninformed populism combined with well-meaning do-gooders who are unable to quantify risk in concert with the good old will to power of the political class which is far from covert

So you don't believe that those various organizations that YOU mentioned exist? Note i did not mention any of the above i said a collection of elitist industrialists, you yourself stated that you have seen it with your own eyes? was seeing it not enough evidence for you?

No body mentioned godfather like cabal..... but I'm interested, are you saying you don't believe that propaganda and media manipulation is used to sway and manipulate public opinion?

Also do you believe the government are working in the interests of the population or the corporations?

Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: sausage and mash on August 06, 2013, 03:47 pm
i was a believer in his releases and his speech on the invasion of privacy really got me thinking he was a good guy and hoped that he would reveal some really interesting stuff but his acceptance of the offer of asylum in Russia as long as he stopped releasing the information proves to me hes more interested in personal safety than revealing the evils of the government.

I think you're way out of line to say something like that. What in the world would you do to help Snowden if he was extradited because he refused to stop releasing information? Nothing. No one would do anything to significantly help him. If you don't want to help him, if you're not down to lose your life to help him, then you're in no position to say he should've risked his life (especially after he already risked his life).

To help him? Nothing, i think hes a fake, as iv said.
Its good because we have a comparison in this case, snowden knows this too, thats why he released his to a major broad sheet and manning to a whistle blowing web site, the difference is that manning is sat in a high security cell and most likely will be for the rest of his life and snowden gave interviews from a luxury hotel room.
If he wanted to change things, show the world the truth he would have stuck to his guns and released all, just like manning did, follow it through or don't bother starting it, as it stands all he has told us is that the NSA are undertaking a massive surveillance operation that is in place across the globe incorporating many security agencies, something most of us had a hunch they were up to in the first place.
So, whats the situation with prism now? Well its still in operation and now we all know about it....have you got outraged? have you written to your senator about your concerns? I don't know, i hope so but the more you look at this the more its looking like some fantastic publicity stunt to reveal the existence of a constitutional breaking surveillance program that now every knows about but don't appear to be doing much about.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 07, 2013, 10:01 pm
Quote
So you don't believe that those various organizations that YOU mentioned exist?

No, I never said they don't exist. Although I highly doubt they control the world.

The main reason for mentioning them was to wind up the cranks, which I see has worked nicely. A very Pavlovian response.
Quote
are you saying you don't believe that propaganda and media manipulation is used to sway and manipulate public opinion?


uh yes sure. But there's also a fairly wide and vocal diversity of opinion, wouldn't you say? A marketplace of ideas?  Populism, what you're talking about,  is nothing new. Socrates railed against it in Athens.  Fact is that lots of people people like to read stories about dodgy TV repairmen stealing some old lady's life savings, or that things were tougher when I was a lad etc
Quote
you yourself stated that you have seen it with your own eyes?

Um, no. Here's what I saw. I've lived in countries where the marketplace of ideas consists of one staid, moribund masthead in competition with the other staid, moribund masthead on who's going to break the big story on the 43rd Brigade's Tractor Works quota-busting production run...which has only happened....well over the past fifty years...every year? The People's Daily broke the story but the Voice Of The Worker followed up with the 50th anniversary of the factory's War on Quotas. So yeah, there's a bit of a difference.

Quote
just like manning did,
Manning? You're shitting me. Manning was no martyr. He wasn't trying to put himself in harm's way to show the world some of the US government's grubbiest secrets. Unmasking himself and actually speaking truth to power FOR REAL like Snowden did was never part of Manning's plan. He didn't even want to get caught - he just hoped he could quietly pass gigabytes of low-grade analyses made by countless 3rd undersecretaries of US consuls regarding the survival of the local frog species, plus the Gangnam craze sweeping Africa...and move on with his life once he'd palmed off the goods. Not only are Snowden's balls about 50 times the size of Manning's; he's about 50IQ points up on him, too. Still on the run. Snowden's problem is that he doesn't have a whole lot of options right now. But things change. I suspect after a few years he'll be able to be smuggled onto a plane without the US noticing and transported somewhere to a nicer climate where he can live out his days in the manner in which he deserves.

Oh and of course, Manning's gigabytes  of diplomatic gossip vs Snowden's revelation that the NSA is snooping on just about everyone? If they were political scandals, Snowden would be Watergate and Manning would be Weinergate.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on August 08, 2013, 07:21 am
i was a believer in his releases and his speech on the invasion of privacy really got me thinking he was a good guy and hoped that he would reveal some really interesting stuff but his acceptance of the offer of asylum in Russia as long as he stopped releasing the information proves to me hes more interested in personal safety than revealing the evils of the government.

I think you're way out of line to say something like that. What in the world would you do to help Snowden if he was extradited because he refused to stop releasing information? Nothing. No one would do anything to significantly help him. If you don't want to help him, if you're not down to lose your life to help him, then you're in no position to say he should've risked his life (especially after he already risked his life).

You do make an excellent point Romero...   also, people who think that Snowden just "sold-out" or whatever for asylum in Russia doesn't mean that he did.  Am fairly sure that Alan Greenwald of the Guardian (probably one of several) already is in possession of the rest of the info and can release it as he sees fit at any time with no further input from Ed Snowden...   just sayin'...
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on August 09, 2013, 01:22 am
would you believe this place posts profits  ??? and pays tax  :o     :-X
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: sausage and mash on August 09, 2013, 07:45 am
Quote
So you don't believe that those various organizations that YOU mentioned exist?

No, I never said they don't exist. Although I highly doubt they control the world.

The main reason for mentioning them was to wind up the cranks, which I see has worked nicely. A very Pavlovian response.
Quote
are you saying you don't believe that propaganda and media manipulation is used to sway and manipulate public opinion?


uh yes sure. But there's also a fairly wide and vocal diversity of opinion, wouldn't you say? A marketplace of ideas?  Populism, what you're talking about,  is nothing new. Socrates railed against it in Athens.  Fact is that lots of people people like to read stories about dodgy TV repairmen stealing some old lady's life savings, or that things were tougher when I was a lad etc
Quote
you yourself stated that you have seen it with your own eyes?

Um, no. Here's what I saw. I've lived in countries where the marketplace of ideas consists of one staid, moribund masthead in competition with the other staid, moribund masthead on who's going to break the big story on the 43rd Brigade's Tractor Works quota-busting production run...which has only happened....well over the past fifty years...every year? The People's Daily broke the story but the Voice Of The Worker followed up with the 50th anniversary of the factory's War on Quotas. So yeah, there's a bit of a difference.

Quote
just like manning did,
Manning? You're shitting me. Manning was no martyr. He wasn't trying to put himself in harm's way to show the world some of the US government's grubbiest secrets. Unmasking himself and actually speaking truth to power FOR REAL like Snowden did was never part of Manning's plan. He didn't even want to get caught - he just hoped he could quietly pass gigabytes of low-grade analyses made by countless 3rd undersecretaries of US consuls regarding the survival of the local frog species, plus the Gangnam craze sweeping Africa...and move on with his life once he'd palmed off the goods. Not only are Snowden's balls about 50 times the size of Manning's; he's about 50IQ points up on him, too. Still on the run. Snowden's problem is that he doesn't have a whole lot of options right now. But things change. I suspect after a few years he'll be able to be smuggled onto a plane without the US noticing and transported somewhere to a nicer climate where he can live out his days in the manner in which he deserves.

Oh and of course, Manning's gigabytes  of diplomatic gossip vs Snowden's revelation that the NSA is snooping on just about everyone? If they were political scandals, Snowden would be Watergate and Manning would be Weinergate.

Very good, you appear to have it all worked out. good for you.  ;)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 09, 2013, 05:57 pm
Not really...

It's the conspiracy theorists who tend to be the ones claiming to have it all worked out.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on August 10, 2013, 04:59 am
Not really...

It's the conspiracy theorists who tend to be the ones claiming to have it all worked out.

It's the conspiracy theorists who do claim to have it all worked out are the ones who give conspiracy theorists in general a bad name.  People who theorize about a probably conspiracy but have no actual proof... yet...  are often the ones who eventually turn the "theory" into "law".

BTW, I was speaking about conspiracy theorists in general - not specific to manning/snowden - so was kind of off topic in that regard, just had an impulse to get my two cents in ...  ;)
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: metacontxt on August 10, 2013, 05:13 am
Well, yes. Sounds to me as though you're describing a skeptic, which is a very good thing to be, especially when it comes to those who make decisions that affect the lives of others.

I, however, am talking about the tinfoil hat/troofer/chemtrails/anti-vaxxers brigade. They tend to be extremely dogmatic; quite the opposite of skeptical.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on August 10, 2013, 05:18 am
Well, yes. Sounds to me as though you're describing a skeptic, which is a very good thing to be, especially when it comes to those who make decisions that affect the lives of others.

I, however, am talking about the tinfoil hat/troofer/chemtrails/anti-vaxxers brigade. They tend to be extremely dogmatic; quite the opposite of skeptical.

Touche...  and yes, I know exactly what you're saying....   I knew I was off topic...  just had to say it is all..  :P
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on August 10, 2013, 03:20 pm
snell snell
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on August 10, 2013, 04:54 pm
la verdad está ahí fuera! - the truth is out there !!
Latin Mulder and Scully.
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: ondine on August 11, 2013, 10:47 pm
I just don't really like him that much.

Like, something about him just doesn't sit right with me. Hopefully that doesn't make me a bad person. OR AN IDIOT.

Unfortunately I think what he did won't end up having that much of an effect in the grand scheme of things, so I wish he could just come home and we could all just forget that he existed///
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: goblin on August 12, 2013, 02:27 am
...so I wish he could just come home and we could all just forget that he existed///
Come home to indefinite detention and maybe torture? Oh wait, Holder said he wouldn't be tortured... right!
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: ondine on August 12, 2013, 02:42 am
...so I wish he could just come home and we could all just forget that he existed///
Come home to indefinite detention and maybe torture? Oh wait, Holder said he wouldn't be tortured... right!

I was just thinking we'd let him go back to hawaii and live with his stripper girlfriend.

But if you want to torture him, I'm so down lets find out what that slut bitch knows
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: foxen624 on August 18, 2013, 05:39 pm
I just don't really like him that much.

Wait!  You know him personally?  Hmmmm...  doubt it.   How in the world can you like or dislike someone you don't even know but have just seen on TV and heard a lot of talk about - except for his father, probably most who love to talk about others don't know him anymore than you do anyway... just saying'.....  ???
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: joolz on August 21, 2013, 09:15 am
come on Judge wtf did Bradley really do ..tell the fuking TRUTH
JAH BLESS   ;D
Title: Re: Edward Snowden
Post by: ondine on August 22, 2013, 07:20 pm
I just don't really like him that much.

Wait!  You know him personally?  Hmmmm...  doubt it.   How in the world can you like or dislike someone you don't even know but have just seen on TV and heard a lot of talk about - except for his father, probably most who love to talk about others don't know him anymore than you do anyway... just saying'.....  ???

You could probably say the same thing about Justin Bieber.

Justin Bieber = Edward Snowden

Justed Snowbieb: American Dick Hero