Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: indoorwinds151 on August 02, 2012, 03:40 am
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There's more that I'd like all of your opinions on that isn't in the subject line, so I'll elaborate:
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Listed below are open-ended questions that I'm interested in, and I think most other people are, but I'd like this to be open to everyone else as well. Feel free to throw out any specific questions or bring up a different point of view!
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I've heard about LSD and Cannabis being helpful for people with anxiety, among other psychological abnormalities, or just life problems in general such as physical pain and sleeping. As a person with anxiety that has made progress through the meditative usage (as opposed to tripping around other people at parties, etc.) of Psilocybe Cubensis Mushrooms, I am interested in hearing about other people's experiences with psychedelics in this sense.
A.) What are some psychological/therapeutic benefits of using LSD once or twice? What about over a long period of time, like a trip every 2-6 months for a few years? How does this compare to other psychedelics? I encourage you to share effects shown in studies as well as personal accounts, and please distinguish between the two.
However, I'm personally undecided on using LSD because it's not from nature, like Shrooms, DMT, and Cannabis. I'm a bit of a tree-hugging hippie in that sense.
B.) What do you think about LSD being made in a lab, compared to other psychedelics that are grown naturally?
C.) Same question as A, but pertaining to Psilocybe Shrooms.
D.) Same question as A, but pertaining to DMT.
DMT is my preference because it exists in so many living things, but I've read briefly that it is possible to develop a tolerance to DMT, which discourages me from beginning to use it long-term.
E.) What do you know about diminishing effects of the psychedelics listed because your body is growing a tolerance to it? I encourage you to share effects shown in studies as well as personal accounts, and please distinguish between the two.
I don't have an interest in Cannabis at all. Maybe because so many people use it for recreation, I'm not sure. I flip back and forth every week. I think it's very relevant, though.
F.) Same question as A, but pertaining to Cannabis.
You don't have to have experience in more than one of these substances to provide input! I'll be checking back and editing if need be.
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GOD FUCKING DAMNIT.
I spent half an hour writing a response to you, and before I could post it my Tor crashed.
Anyways, it's late and I'm tired but I'll be back tomorrow to retype what I had.
Props to you for posting this too! I'm really happy this topic is up here. I feel passionate about the subject but when I talk to people about it sometimes I have a hard time articulating my thoughts, and typing it all out here is already helping.
Cheers Mate.
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I am way too tired to contribute to this right now, but i definitely want to see where this goes. So marking this as a reminder to come back here :)
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Don't have time to answer thoroughly each question, but still, I'd like to answer the following one.
B.) What do you think about LSD being made in a lab, compared to other psychedelics that are grown naturally?
This is no problem at all, because some things that are natural can be deadly toxic. Natural does not mean "necessarily good". The same goes for chemicals, it does not mean "necessarily bad". What matters is the end result, as long as no problematic side effects occur, which is the case with both natural psychedelics and psychedelic chemicals (as far as I know). Some people will romanticize their relationship to psychedelic plants (plants as master teachers, sentient beings), up to the point they have to grow and cook these plants themselves. But that does not matter to me. If it works, then it's all good.
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However, I'm personally undecided on using LSD because it's not from nature, like Shrooms, DMT, and Cannabis. I'm a bit of a tree-hugging hippie in that sense.
What makes humans so essentially arrogant/egocentric such that we separate everything we make from nature? People call beaver dams natural, and bird nests, and bee hives, and the list goes on and on. Just because we are more capable, does that make our creations unnatural?
No. We jut need to recognize that beaver dams, and bird nests, and bee hives have all been around a long time. They've been tested rigorously and have withstood. The things we create have sometimes been around a few years before large numbers of people start ingesting them regularly.
It's just another facet of evolution. The bad ideas die off as we recognize their ill effects, and the good ideas persist. Nothing so silly as allowing ourselves to deny nature credit for things which are of us, and thus are ultimately of nature.
All that said, LSD is tried and true. In fact, it helped me to see the connections between everything leading to the realization that we are a part of nature, not separate from and certainly not above.
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A.) What are some psychological/therapeutic benefits of using LSD once or twice? What about over a long period of time, like a trip every 2-6 months for a few years? How does this compare to other psychedelics? I encourage you to share effects shown in studies as well as personal accounts, and please distinguish between the two.
LSD in sufficient dosages can produce a religious experience. Spirituality has been shown to be positively correlated with a sense of well-being and happiness. LSD also brings unconscious thought processes to the surface, permitting conscious analysis of deep-rooted fears, biases, instincts, etc. It's as if the conscious mind has been 'expanded' to include processes that are normally handled by the subconscious. The therapeutic benefits of this should be obvious.
B.) What do you think about LSD being made in a lab, compared to other psychedelics that are grown naturally?
Drugs that were originally thought to be synthetic are sometimes afterwards found to occur in nature. LSA is one example. It was first synthesised by Hoffman (who also synthesised LSD), and was later found to occur naturally in many parts of the world. LSD is believed to occur in the brains of certain organisms -- Stanislav Grof mentions this in his LSD: Doorway to the Numinous -- so it may be natural after all. (By the way, if you are interested in learning more about the therapeutic and spiritual benefits of LSD and other psychedelics, study the works of Grof.)
For me, sticking to what is natural is more of a rule of thumb than an infallible law. While there are good reasons to prefer natural over synthetic drugs as a general rule, the equation natural=good/synthetic=bad is overly simplistic, as there are many natural substances that are poisons, and many synthetic chemicals that are physiologically harmless. Mescaline and caffeine, which occur in nature, both have a higher level of toxicity than LSD, which is synthetic.
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A.) What are some psychological/therapeutic benefits of using LSD once or twice? What about over a long period of time, like a trip every 2-6 months for a few years? How does this compare to other psychedelics? I encourage you to share effects shown in studies as well as personal accounts, and please distinguish between the two.
However, I'm personally undecided on using LSD because it's not from nature, like Shrooms, DMT, and Cannabis. I'm a bit of a tree-hugging hippie in that sense.
B.) What do you think about LSD being made in a lab, compared to other psychedelics that are grown naturally?
C.) Same question as A, but pertaining to Psilocybe Shrooms.
D.) Same question as A, but pertaining to DMT.
DMT is my preference because it exists in so many living things, but I've read briefly that it is possible to develop a tolerance to DMT, which discourages me from beginning to use it long-term.
E.) What do you know about diminishing effects of the psychedelics listed because your body is growing a tolerance to it? I encourage you to share effects shown in studies as well as personal accounts, and please distinguish between the two.
I don't have an interest in Cannabis at all. Maybe because so many people use it for recreation, I'm not sure. I flip back and forth every week. I think it's very relevant, though.
F.) Same question as A, but pertaining to Cannabis.
You don't have to have experience in more than one of these substances to provide input! I'll be checking back and editing if need be.
A.
I've had good results using LSD, as well as other drugs, to reduce the frequency and severity of my anxiety and panic attacks. I trip about once a month on it and I usually take around 300 to 400 ug. My tolerance isn't very high, I just enjoy a very intense and reflective trip. After taking breaks, my anxiety worsens. LSD seems to help, but not as much as other drugs.
B.
I'm a bit of a chemistry freak, and I have no issue with it being made rather than produced naturally. Chemicals are chemicals. They're all atoms and elements all jumbled up in different ways. Humans are part of nature, our habitats, even cities, are ecosystems that are a part of nature, however unnatural they may seem. They are just very advanced compared to other species. Our labs that we produce drugs in are natural results of a very advanced natural species. The chemical is created through the manipulation of a natural process. At least, that's how I see it. Although I do think I overthink it a little bit.
C.
Exact same answer, but I don't get quite as good results.
D.
Much better results. Better than anything except really high quality hash mixed with salvia, which I do quite often.
E.
I definitely have to limit my trips due to this. I thumbprinted a very large amount of LSD once, and I took two tabs over a month later and had no effect. I saved tabs from the batch and used them a month later, got a slight buzz. Saved more tabs from the same batch, used the same amount every other month for a while. Eventually had a small, shorter trip with my usual dose. Took a break for three months and everything seems back to normal in terms of tolerance. I don't do shrooms enough to really develop a heavy tolerance.
F.
I get good results from cannabis, better than shrooms or LSD. Hash produces the best effects, hash oil is about the same, but I'd need to do it more to form a better opinion about it. Edibles help more than smoking regular cannabis, less than hash, and about the same amount as vaporizing cannabis.
So, to sum up the effects of the drugs: They all help reduce my anxiety and panic attacks, and they seem to differ only in how well they do that. In order from the least to the best at reducing my anxiety:
Various RC's
Shrooms
LSD
Smoked Cannabis
Edibles/Vaporized Cannabis
DMT
Hash
Salvia
Hash and Salvia
Hash and Salvia really helps me. I love both of these drugs and combined the can make my anxiety completely disappear for weeks at a time, even if I continue or stop using any combination of drugs during that time.
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a. lsd is an incredibly versatile chemical. using it in the right set and setting can drastically change you in unforeseeable ways. as with other serotonergic psychedelics, it has the potential to completely change your perception, which can be hugely beneficial for self-reflection and healing.
b. i prefer natural psychedelics to synthetics as well. that being said, in a way lsd bridges the gap between the two, as it is semisynthetic. the purity of lsd is EXTREMELY important. slight variations in purity can feel like completely different trips.
c. pretty similar to my thoughts on lsd, though there are many differences between the two. psilocybin is responsible for the start of my healing from a decade long illness. from my use of psychedelics, both synthetic and natural, i've come to the conclusion that the plant-based psychedelics are the strongest medicine. mckenna calls it "food of the gods" for a reason.
d. dmt is in a class of its own. more for exploring different dimensions than exploring the inner depths of your mind. its mystery seems to be directly related to the fact that it's endogenous to the human body and closely resembles serotonin. i feel it's an essential chemical to life. when combined with an maoi, you get the most powerful plant medicine on the planet, ayahuasca.
e. tolerance for lsd and psilocybin lasts about a week or so, but it varies depending on the person. dmt is out of your body very quickly, tolerance should only last an hour or two. you could smoke dmt once a day (probably more) and not build a tolerance.
f. where to begin with listing the benefits of cannabis? look at the wiki article for medical cannabis. it can treat a whole host of problems, both psychological and physical. for me, it's the first and only thing that treated my overwhelming depression and immense bodily pain. nothing comes close for pain relief, except maybe mxe or k.
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there is no evidence that DMT is endogamous to the human body. This idea originates in Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule, which he admits is just speculation.
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there is no evidence that DMT is endogamous to the human body. This idea originates in Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule, which he admits is just speculation.
far from speculation. look at the wiki article for dmt. it says it's endogenous in the third line. if ya don't trust wiki, here are some clearnet sites:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780487
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(08)00398-8/abstract
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/323/5916/934.abstract
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there is no evidence that DMT is endogamous to the human body. This idea originates in Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule, which he admits is just speculation.
far from speculation. look at the wiki article for dmt. it says it's endogenous in the third line. if ya don't trust wiki, here are some clearnet sites:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780487
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(08)00398-8/abstract
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/323/5916/934.abstract
right, I think there was first an assertion that it is endogenous to the human body, then the methods of that conclusion were called into question. However, I believe the current consensus is that DMT is endogenous, although the debate remains as to its role. The main myth about DMT is that it is released in the brain in massive amounts during near death experiences and right before death. This has been pure speculation with absolutely no evidence to back it up. The only confirmed time DMT is present in massive amounts in the body is when I take an enormous hit of it ;D
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there is no evidence that DMT is endogamous to the human body. This idea originates in Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule, which he admits is just speculation.
far from speculation. look at the wiki article for dmt. it says it's endogenous in the third line. if ya don't trust wiki, here are some clearnet sites:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780487
http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(08)00398-8/abstract
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/323/5916/934.abstract
Your links say that DMT is hypothesized to be an endogamous neutotransmitter. After looking into this a bit further, I think you're probably right; DMT is endogamous to the human body, although there is still no proof that it is produced in the brain. Erowid has a good article about this: http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.php?ID=3146
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I came over to this forum for the very reason to find this thread, even though I'm fond of all psychedelics I wanted a thread just on DMT as it has changed my life in a very meaningful and powerful way. I'm really glad you started this thread and will be anxiously waiting to read the responses from the community. However, I'm on a quest and a deeper understanding of DMT and peoples experiences with it.
I'm going to see if there is already a thread solely on the subject, or may start one myself. If anyone has a good one they know of, please share.
It's nice to have drugs we can use for self betterment and realization.
Kudos OP!
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I'll answer it the best I can, I'm pretty worn out, but I can try. Well I'll answer B as that's the only one I can completely form an opinion on as I'm way too worn out to go find studies.
B.) What do you think about LSD being made in a lab, compared to other psychedelics that are grown naturally?
It doesn't bother me that it's made in a lab, just because something is in nature, it doesn't mean it's not completely safe. I much rather have LSD made in a lab then say, Meth made out of someones garage using the one bottle method. I'm trying to not ramble so I'll leave it at that.
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I'm happy for the positive responses to the making of this thread!
You've convinced me to ask my teacher about trying LSD instead of just Shrooms (it was her "professional" suggestion, though it is alternative medicine). I guess we can't truly count LSD as an unnatural substance.
People aren't seeming to come to this thread to share stories about their trips, only how it changed them, so you could make a new thread to discuss the spiritual discoveries. Below I'll talk about a trip I had, and how it helped me understand my anxiety, but more related to the thread topic.
I'll do some more research and share links on here if I find anything good, too.
I recently had a trip and was incredibly frustrated after, instead of at peace. I took about 2 grams because it was a new vendor and I was at my parents' house, so I tripped on that from 1am-7am, which was when they started getting up. It could be that I was overtired the next day from lack of sleep, but it's also to note that my trip was not necessarily euphoric. Without many visuals, this time I spent a lot of time thinking about my emotions, and how they cycle.
A Yin Yang symbol best describes this. I would go through waves of Love, where I felt a mutual love between Nature and I, and my physical body and I. As with Yin Yang, and a constant balance, I knew that as there is time with my body and with this earth, there is also time without my body and without Nature, and eventually without this "God" to love me.
Note: I put God in quotes because I'm confused who I communicated with. It's a little * at the bottom because it's confusing to describe now.
I'm incredibly emotional on shrooms, emotional about my own emotions, and see that as an expansion of the unconcious mind, as you said. As I would go through this wave of fear, the loving feeling would go away and, even though I just felt it, I felt that it would never be coming back. After trying to convince myself to feel happy again, I eventually would.
My conclusion is that I we constantly balance and cycle through things, like swimming in a circle in a whirlpool of Yin Yang. Our energy, our pure drive to be loved rather than alone and afraid, is true life and what makes us exist, even without our body. This energy to strive for our goals is relative. In one way, we cycle between with and without our body, but here on earth we strive to build a house, to win or lose a race, animals strive to survive and mate, sleeping and waking, etc. It's important to note that there isn't a perfect amount of each side of the balance, but there needs to be both.
You can't love your friend without the fear of being without them,
Love and Fear are not the only emotions. I felt like these were the biggest two, like myself and "God" or myself and my body, always pairs. But as one they make the one Yin Yang balance. There are all sorts of balances, though.
I became frustrated that God made fear exist. But even though I knew that forgiveness and compassion cannot exist without anger in order to balance, I was angry that anger existed, and angry that I was angry about anger and hate existed. In my anger, I was unconviced that I would ever stop being angry and balance to the other side, forgiveness. Eventually I knew even God cannot control the balance and shifting between the two poles, because each side needs the other to exist. That's a rule.
I stopped being frustrated when it started getting light out, and I moved around and went for a jog/walk in the beautiful hazy morning and felt so so great. Moving on to the next thing instead of lingering.
This taught me about my depression and anxiety, where my bad feelings seemed to appear out of nowhere for no reason, and how I would be stressed about feeling stressed, etc. I can't control the cycle, but I can accept and swim with it or flail against it and have a bad time. I have to accept that I will be angry sometimes. And when you are angry or fearful, it truly is the truest emotion. It's not Love with a little Fear. The Fear is real, even though it's bad. I don't feel like I will bounce back, even though I tell myself that.
Discovering and understanding this didn't make my tired day flawless. Knowing about the cycle of things did not make me feel any less angry or afraid, and certainly stop them from occurring because those are real and always will be. But it helps me understand and deal with it. I'll never stop feeling bad altogether; no one does.
*Then "God" thing... Part of my trip was a mutual love between the creator of Nature, but this was a person who would meet me at my body's death and bring me somewhere without the Earth, and there was a possibility of being without this person. My answer wasn't clear if this happens or not, it was more theory. In my waves of Love I felt happy there was a game where he didn't show me exact answers, in my frustrated waves I was angry and annoyed.
I didn't get a feel clear answer to everything involving this, and don't ever expect to in this lifetime.
I forgot a few things and purposely left out others but I hope that's comprehensive for anyone interested!