Silk Road forums
Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: kushkush on January 28, 2013, 03:16 am
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then why do we have laws? and what will happen if everybody follows the law?
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Laws are written by the insanely rich and powerful for THEIR benefit.
If a code of behavior strictly for mutual benefit were written down, I would not call them Laws.
I would call them Protocol, and they would not be enforced by government of any kind.
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Laws are meant to be followed. They should be rules which allow societies/communities to flow like water. If good laws are ignored or bad laws are followed, it dams up the water, which eventually floods and bursts. (My attempt at some Bruce Lee for ya :P)
So many laws today are far from lubricating. They interfere with personal freedom and I do not think they should be followed per se, clearly being here I do not follow them. The question is do you change the laws from inside the system or from the outside? Inside the system is slow, tedious and one must swim against the rapids of corruption, Outside, you are branded a criminal and they try to take you out of the game. I'd like to think that if everyone becomes a criminal they will force changes. However, doesn't the USA have a gajillion prisoners serving ridiculous prison sentences and doesn't seem like the public is in an outrage calling for change or if they are they are being ignored.
Sigh, these thinking of these things gets me nowhere. I need my drugs to arrive so I can turn off, tune out and drop off...
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OK, how about this case?
A friend is HIV-infected but not on HAART therapy.
He went to India where he ate opium and smoked charas and his lab results went down into the regions of people on therapy, i.e. no detectable viral load and stable T-4 helper cells.
In our country both meds are illegal.
Despite the high cost of opium and charas in the EU his therapy costs roughly 600 Euros/month compared to €2,000 if he were on conventional meds (with all their side effects and cardiac risks).
Is it only fair if he breaks the law to cure himself or not?
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So many laws today are far from lubricating.
Law enforcement and lubrication? Do I detect a hint of police uniform fetishism?
Sigh, these thinking of these things gets me nowhere. I need my drugs to arrive so I can turn off, tune out and drop off...
I thought it was turn up, tune in, and drop out? Then again, I'm not on drugs, and I should be.
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laws are relative
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Is it only fair if he breaks the law to cure himself or not?
The Law is a sick joke. There is no moral reason to obey the law on anything.
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I thought it was turn up, tune in, and drop out? Then again, I'm not on drugs, and I should be.
It is a quote from Timothy Leary: "Turn on, tune in, drop out."
But Leary conceded shortly before his death that he was a mole who cooperated with authorities. He had to as they threatened to lock him up forever. I do not know whether he ratted out somebody.
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Lubrication as in laws allows the gears of society to turn. If enough laws are broken, the gears don't turn. Maybe there is a fetish present, Mr. Freud. I do like my ladies warm and wet...
I was playing on Leary. I meant rather than open my consciousness, I just wanted to turn it off in a futile attempt to ignore the current issues in the world :o
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Lubrication as in laws allows the gears of society to turn. If enough laws are broken, the gears don't turn. Maybe there is a fetish present, Mr. Freud. I do like my ladies warm and wet...
Oh my, Captain!
I was playing on Leary. I meant rather than open my consciousness, I just wanted to turn it off in a futile attempt to ignore the current issues in the world :o
My mother knew Timothy Leary. Tim and Mom used to play with Tim's huge pet Boa Constrictor.
By that, I do not mean his penis, I mean an actual Boa Constrictor. He was a beautiful snake.
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There are many who draw a distinction between what is lawful and what is legal. So for the purposes of this conversation we are talking about what is legal or illegal. It's illegal to smoke marijuana in many places but I don't think it's unlawful because it does no harm. Slavery is unlawful in my mind, but seems to be alive and well, legal and legislated in North America where our governments have sold us to private bankers. Laws as we know them are simply corporate policies, hence police (policy enforcement officers). Canada's constitution states that it is the highest law of the land and any legislation that proves unconstitutional is of no force or effect. It goes on to state that it only applies to agents of the government, so then all Canadian laws must only apply to government agents. Try telling the pigs, or even a judge, that though. I've heard from people with experience in several governments, that Canada's is the most corrupt they've seen.
The world seems to think us Canadians live in such a great democracy, when in reality, there's absolutely no way to create change. I wrote some simple questions to 4 different government officials, worded kindly enough, and got one letter back from one of them, that completely dodged all my questions.
I think governments should exist only to facilitate the needs of the people, like the lube comment above...all we got up here is a private fuckwad club.
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This member of the ILF likes to think about where the Law came from. Oh, yes, that's right. From monarchs, who first came from religious leaders, who first came, you've got it, straight from God.
Except for THEY'RE ALL MAKING THIS SHIT UP!!! Kings: the original con men.
This member of the ILF does not necessarily deny the existence of God, or a God, or some Gods. But she definitely denies that laws are anything more than inventions in people's heads to make other people do what they (the lawmakers) want. The government is not a "real" thing! Does this mean that there is no such thing as a universal law? Or a moral law? Uh, not in her book! But that is totally different from the law as we know it, held in place by a system of police officers and courts and prisons, as many posters (PathSeeker, raynardine, pennyloaferz) have seemed to be pointing out.
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Kings: the original con men.
Raynardine likes this member of the ILF.
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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish!
bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G004
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But Leary conceded shortly before his death that he was a mole who cooperated with authorities. He had to as they threatened to lock him up forever. I do not know whether he ratted out somebody.
A mole? What organization did he infiltrate?
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For the most part, yes, laws are meant to be broken. Aside from the capitol offenses, like murder, rape, child abuse etc..
But i can only assume you where leaning more along the lines of drug crimes. Fuck yea, cause if no one broke all the BS laws LEO and feds lay down, millions of people would be out of work, and the cities would be flat broke.
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Law is a way of forcefully binding people to a particular moral order. The moral parameters are determined by those who possess force. Theoretically in a democratic society the majority wield force, but I consider this not only inherently illegitimate (what justifies rule by majority?) but also in practice to alienate the individual from the process very effectively and to establish nothing more than an inefficient oligarchy.
As an individual, I follow laws occasionally to avoid the consequences (when doing so doesn't compromise my moral integrity) but I don't see them as having any meaningful impact in determining my actions. I only answer to my own conscience, and when the dictates of my conscience are in conflict with the laws by which I am governed, then I break them. I have never gotten in trouble yet. ;)
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I think Kant would say that law is the just manifestation of a rational moral imperative within a society, in the sense that morality is defined by the categorical imperative.
You must only act such that you would agree that your action would be appropriate for all people in all circumstances. So if you kill someone you must be put to death, (by law), because your actions indicate your rational will that it is ok for all people to be killed, including yourself.
Nietzsche I think would answer by asking why is it innately valuable to be rational? Law is a matter of natural necessity, in that whatever happens in the present happens because it necessarily must, and to understand why things must happen one must consider the universal will to power, and in the case of man's actions, the will to power as a metaphysically constructed value system which determines people's behaviors, for example Christianity, or National Socialism, or scientific empiricism, or a strong conviction in the moral supremacy of one's legal system.
If anyone knows more about this than me feel free to correct what I have said about these widely studied thinkers.
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You must only act such that you would agree that your action would be appropriate for all people in all circumstances.
Maybe Kant would say that, but I would say that the only true moral imperatives are those you decide for yourself as an individual.
Not that I am arguing that moral theory is necessarily valid, but some researchers would probably consider my moral development to be the highest, level 6.
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What laws do you mean? The laws of nature, like gravity, or made up constructs from man? Your choice. Man made laws invoke a "privilege", which can be taken away, but try and break the law of gravity.
I'll stick to the laws of the universe, not ones made up by someone seeking control and power.
And the law of the land for mankind, is common law. All others are unjust.
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In the words of MLK, jr "unjust laws are meant to be broken." It is our duty to break them as a means of protest to express their injustice to the government. SO IT IS YOUR DUTY TO USE ILLEGAL DRUGS!