Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: FadeTheButcher on June 03, 2012, 09:20 pm
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... after you've tried everything you wanted to try? :)
we must do only the HEALTHY drugs. We must, if we value our health, eventually STOP taking drugs like heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, MDMA, etc.
Eventually we must do only a handful of GOOD drugs that are NOT harmful to your body.
Please take my advices! :)
After I am done trying everything, I will content myself with only:
- shrooms
- cannabis (in the form of pot brownies, to avoid bad effects from smoking)
- LSD
- DMT
- ayahuasca
- mescaline, peyote
All of these drugs are harmless!
I URGE everyone here to limit themselves to the above drugs, after you try everything you want to try!!
But BEFORE i limit myself to the above mentioned drugs, I will still need to try:
- ketamine
- opium, morphine
- maybe cocaine
- 2c-p family drugs
After I do these, I PROMISE to you, and to myself, that i will only limit myself to:
- shrooms
- cannabis (in the form of pot brownies, to avoid bad effects from smoking)
- LSD
- DMT
- ayahuasca
- mescaline, peyote
And I urge others to do the same :)
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And I urge others to do the same :)
Uhh what? ???
I'll be the master of my own body and everything I put into it thank you very much.
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And I urge others to do the same :)
Uhh what? ???
I'll be the master of my own body and everything I put into it thank you very much.
Of course :) Its your body, you have freedom to do what you want to do.
At the same time, I have the freedom to make advices to people, to try to help them be healthy with drugs. :)
NOT forcing them, just advising them to do the drugs I listed, so that they can remain in optimal health while still enjoying drugs.
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Every person is responsible for his/her own drug use, whether it's meth or cannabis.
sdesu
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FYI cocaine is made from the coca leaf that grows in South American regions like Bolivia, and Peru. And people indigenous to that region chew on the coca leaf (mixed with ash or another alkoloid) for spiritual and medical reasons.
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Every person is responsible for his/her own drug use, whether it's meth or cannabis.
sdesu
This is not denying responsbility of others, this is not forcing people to follow me advice, this is simply giving people advice.....
I do not take away responsibility, I just give advices. If you want to be healthy, and still take drugs regularly, you would PROBABLY do well to only do the drugs I listed (shrooms, cannabis, LSD, DMT, peyote, mescaline)...and to avoid the others. You can still TRY the other drugs, but if you want to be healthy it's a good idea to only REGULARLY do the ones listed.
But of course, you are still free to do the heroin, cocaine, meth, MDMA, etc., and harm your health, I completely agree. You are still responsible for your own body. It's just not a good idea, but you're free to do it, and I do not take away your freedom simply by giving advices.....
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while i agree with you for the most part, mdma can be EXTREMELY beneficial. as long as you don't make it a habit, i doubt you will experience any lasting negative effects. the neurotoxicity can also be counteracted with weed. you mention the "harmful effects of smoking" but studies show that people who smoke marijuana habitually have a slightly REDUCED risk of getting lung cancer. also, lsa should be on your list. :)
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Every person is responsible for his/her own drug use, whether it's meth or cannabis.
sdesu
This is not denying responsbility of others, this is not forcing people to follow me advice, this is simply giving people advice.....
I do not take away responsibility, I just give advices. If you want to be healthy, and still take drugs regularly, you would PROBABLY do well to only do the drugs I listed (shrooms, cannabis, LSD, DMT, peyote, mescaline)...and to avoid the others. You can still TRY the other drugs, but if you want to be healthy it's a good idea to only REGULARLY do the ones listed.
But of course, you are still free to do the heroin, cocaine, meth, MDMA, etc., and harm your health, I completely agree. You are still responsible for your own body. It's just not a good idea, but you're free to do it, and I do not take away your freedom simply by giving advices.....
It has nothing to do about which drugs are considered safe, in YOUR opinion.
It's all about self control and harm reduction.
Also, you say that if I want to be "healthy" it is a good idea to only do the "healthy" drugs you listed, on a regular basis. There's nothing healthy about doing LSD on a regular basis. You're still causing changes in the concentration of several neurotransmitters as well as their receptors.
I don't fault you for having an opinion, seeing as we all have them, but if you're going to advocate anything, may it be harm reduction.
sdesu
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while i agree with you for the most part, mdma can be EXTREMELY beneficial.
I agree, MDMA can certainly be beneficial, but it can also be very bad for your heart and brain, and too much can also lead to severe depression. I'd reserve MDMA for very special times in one's life. I think it also has extraordinary potential for use to treat people who are terminally ill, and come to terms with death, and make sure their last moments with their friends and family are pleasant.
as long as you don't make it a habit, i doubt you will experience any lasting negative effects. the neurotoxicity can also be counteracted with weed. you mention the "harmful effects of smoking" but studies show that people who smoke marijuana habitually have a slightly REDUCED risk of getting lung cancer.
I am very pro-cannabis, but I must not allow my biases to blind myself to the realities of smoking marijuana. Smoking ANY plant material regularly is bad for your lungs and potentially carcinogenic, I don't care what kind of plant it is. It may not be as bad as cigarettes, but from my research, it is associated with an increased risk of cancer. I am led to this conclusion based on the following research - which if you can disprove, I will be happy and grateful for you, because i enjoy marijuana:
- Marijuana smoke is 50-70 percent more carcinogenic than tobacco. Marijuana has been linked to lung cancer, as well as daily cough and acute chest illnesses. [8 Tashkin fuhfuh. Smoked marijuana as a cause of lung injury. Monaldi Arch Chest Dis 63(2):92–100, 2005.]
- "... Marijuana smoke caused significantly more damage to cells and DNA than tobacco smoke, the researchers note. " Source, science daily.com (http://"... Marijuana smoke caused significantly more damage to cells and DNA than tobacco smoke, the researchers note. ")
- ". . . the marijuana condensates were all found to be more cytotoxic and more mutagenic in the presence of S9 than the matched tobacco condensates. In contrast, the tobacco condensates appeared to induce cytogenetic damage in a concentration-dependent manner, whereas the matched marijuana condensates did not. In addition, when corrected for total particulate matter yield, little difference was observed in the mutagenic activity of samples smoked under the extreme vs the standard regime for both tobacco and marijuana condensates." Source (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/tx9000286)
- smoking marijuana suppresses the immune system, making marijuana smokers more susceptible to certain types of cancers and infections. Source, Medical Daily.com (http://www.medicaldaily.com/news/20101129/4283/new-study-reveals-how-smoking-marijuana-can-trigger-a-suppression-of-the-bodys-immune-functions.htm)
- Marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking [7 Mittleman MA, Lewis RA, Maclure M, Sherwood JB, Muller JE. Triggering myocardial infarction by marijuana. Circulation 103(23):2805–2809, 2001.]
- Marijuana linked to higher risk of testicular cancer (2009) Source (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090209/marijuana_cancer_090209/20090209?hub=Health)
- Marijuana Damages DNA And May Cause Cancer, New Test Reveals (2009) Source (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090615095940.htm)
Even in edible form, which is superior to smoking it both in terms of body high and in terms of maintaining physical health, CAUTION and MODERATION should be exercised in the consumption of marijuana. I base this statement on the following research:
- it can be addictive
- Marijuana negatively affects dopamine neurons, which are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward [4 Diana M, Melis M, Muntoni AL, Gessa GL. Mesolimbic dopaminergic decline after cannabinoid withdrawal. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 95(17):10269–10273, 1998.]
- Marijuana can impair learning and memory [2 Pope HG, Gruber AJ, Hudson JI, Huestis MA, Yurgelun-Todd D. Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users. Arch Gen Psychiatry 58(10):909–915, 2001.]
- Several studies associate marijuana smoking with employees' increased absences, tardiness, accidents, employees' compensation claims, and job turnover. [11 Gruber AJ, Pope HG, Hudson JI, Yurgelun-Todd D. Attributes of long-term heavy cannabis users: A case control study. Psychological Med 33(8):1415–1422, 2003.]
i think the best advice, based on the above research, is to keep enjoying your marijuana, but take it in edible form, and in MODERATION.
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you forgot that marijuana causes men, especially teenage boys, to grow boobs!!
But seriously.
I agree that habits are bad. I wish everyone had access to a huge range of drugs, I think peple would have a hard time forming a habit it they were mixing it up with 50 fucking awesome chemicals. Unless they are already hooked,
Everyone should do drugs. ALL DRUGS. Just mix it up. I find it so sad when I talk to meth addicts or heroin addicts who are so anti every drug but their main addiction.
Now as to your "to-do list" Lets see how you feel after you get a gram of good heroin :)
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Every person is responsible for his/her own drug use, whether it's meth or cannabis.
sdesu
This is not denying responsbility of others, this is not forcing people to follow me advice, this is simply giving people advice.....
I do not take away responsibility, I just give advices. If you want to be healthy, and still take drugs regularly, you would PROBABLY do well to only do the drugs I listed (shrooms, cannabis, LSD, DMT, peyote, mescaline)...and to avoid the others. You can still TRY the other drugs, but if you want to be healthy it's a good idea to only REGULARLY do the ones listed.
But of course, you are still free to do the heroin, cocaine, meth, MDMA, etc., and harm your health, I completely agree. You are still responsible for your own body. It's just not a good idea, but you're free to do it, and I do not take away your freedom simply by giving advices.....
It has nothing to do about which drugs are considered safe, in YOUR opinion.
It's all about self control and harm reduction.
Also, you say that if I want to be "healthy" it is a good idea to only do the "healthy" drugs you listed, on a regular basis. There's nothing healthy about doing LSD on a regular basis. You're still causing changes in the concentration of several neurotransmitters as well as their receptors.
I don't fault you for having an opinion, seeing as we all have them, but if you're going to advocate anything, may it be harm reduction.
sdesu
The effects of a substance on the human body is not really a matter of 'opinion', as it is a matter of science and empirical findings. There are three kinds of drugs in terms of what we know about their long term effects on the human body:
1.) the ones that have no negative impact on people's physical health, even when used regularly (shrooms, LSD, DMT, etc);
2.) the ones that pose a serious problem to people's health, when used regularly (cocaine, methamphetamine, heroin, MDMA, etc)
3.) the ones whose long-term effects are still poorly understood but there is significant evidence that they may cause adverse effects on people's health when used regularly (ketamine, research chemicals, etc).
If you value your health, and still want to take drugs REGULARLY, surely it's a good idea to limit yourself to the first group of drugs mentioned above, i.e. drugs that don't have any negative effects on your physical health? Why is it unreasonable to make this observation? It seems pretty logical and straightforward: limit yourself to drugs that are physically harmless and non-toxic.
People seem to interpret what i am saying as a command, but it is only advice
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... after you've tried everything you wanted to try? :)
After I am done trying everything, I will content myself with only:
- shrooms
- cannabis (in the form of pot brownies, to avoid bad effects from smoking)
- LSD
- DMT
- ayahuasca
- mescaline, peyote
All of these drugs are harmless!
I URGE everyone here to limit themselves to the above drugs, after you try everything you want to try!!
@FadeTheButcher + Anyone else interested in psychedelics.
Psychedelics are far from harmless the moment you stop respecting psychedelics. Is the moment when they will fuck you up.
Granted Shrooms,LSD,Peyote wont cause brain damage...But if not respected and taken in a wrong set/setting can cause severe harm and mental scarring. (Remember kids when dealing with psychedelics your essentially playing with you Consciousness – not something to be taken lightly )
Believe me I have had a very bad 500µg LSD trip in the past that went bad because I didn't respect the drug.
I lost all connection to reality and fell unconscious but my mind was very much alive where I experienced the most horrific hellish nightmare loop where all my fears where realized.
At one point during this hellish loop I thought STOP I want to die and then I was horrified when it continued and I wasn't dead and this continued for about 6 hours before I returned to reality (When I woke up I was covered in vomit).
I was lucky it only took me about 2 months to recover from my experience and I have started doing LSD again. But now I have a greater respect for it.
What I am trying to say is your statement of "All of these drugs are harmless!" Is very misleading and dangerous psychedelics are not to be taken lightly. If misused they can cause great mental harm and can even make you crazy.
Kind Regards
SpeedCrunch
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while i agree with you for the most part, mdma can be EXTREMELY beneficial.
I agree, MDMA can certainly be beneficial, but it can also be very bad for your heart and brain, and too much can also lead to severe depression. I'd reserve MDMA for very special times in one's life. I think it also has extraordinary potential for use to treat people who are terminally ill, and come to terms with death, and make sure their last moments with their friends and family are pleasant.
as long as you don't make it a habit, i doubt you will experience any lasting negative effects. the neurotoxicity can also be counteracted with weed. you mention the "harmful effects of smoking" but studies show that people who smoke marijuana habitually have a slightly REDUCED risk of getting lung cancer.
I am very pro-cannabis, but I must not allow my biases to blind myself to the realities of smoking marijuana. Smoking ANY plant material regularly is bad for your lungs and potentially carcinogenic, I don't care what kind of plant it is. It may not be as bad as cigarettes, but from my research, it is associated with an increased risk of cancer. I am led to this conclusion based on the following research - which if you can disprove, I will be happy and grateful for you, because i enjoy marijuana:
- Marijuana smoke is 50-70 percent more carcinogenic than tobacco. Marijuana has been linked to lung cancer, as well as daily cough and acute chest illnesses. [8 Tashkin fuhfuh. Smoked marijuana as a cause of lung injury. Monaldi Arch Chest Dis 63(2):92–100, 2005.]
- "... Marijuana smoke caused significantly more damage to cells and DNA than tobacco smoke, the researchers note. " Source, science daily.com (http://"... Marijuana smoke caused significantly more damage to cells and DNA than tobacco smoke, the researchers note. ")
- ". . . the marijuana condensates were all found to be more cytotoxic and more mutagenic in the presence of S9 than the matched tobacco condensates. In contrast, the tobacco condensates appeared to induce cytogenetic damage in a concentration-dependent manner, whereas the matched marijuana condensates did not. In addition, when corrected for total particulate matter yield, little difference was observed in the mutagenic activity of samples smoked under the extreme vs the standard regime for both tobacco and marijuana condensates." Source (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/tx9000286)
- smoking marijuana suppresses the immune system, making marijuana smokers more susceptible to certain types of cancers and infections. Source, Medical Daily.com (http://www.medicaldaily.com/news/20101129/4283/new-study-reveals-how-smoking-marijuana-can-trigger-a-suppression-of-the-bodys-immune-functions.htm)
- Marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking [7 Mittleman MA, Lewis RA, Maclure M, Sherwood JB, Muller JE. Triggering myocardial infarction by marijuana. Circulation 103(23):2805–2809, 2001.]
- Marijuana linked to higher risk of testicular cancer (2009) Source (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090209/marijuana_cancer_090209/20090209?hub=Health)
- Marijuana Damages DNA And May Cause Cancer, New Test Reveals (2009) Source (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090615095940.htm)
Even in edible form, which is superior to smoking it both in terms of body high and in terms of maintaining physical health, CAUTION and MODERATION should be exercised in the consumption of marijuana. I base this statement on the following research:
- it can be addictive
- Marijuana negatively affects dopamine neurons, which are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward [4 Diana M, Melis M, Muntoni AL, Gessa GL. Mesolimbic dopaminergic decline after cannabinoid withdrawal. Proc Natl Acad Sci, USA 95(17):10269–10273, 1998.]
- Marijuana can impair learning and memory [2 Pope HG, Gruber AJ, Hudson JI, Huestis MA, Yurgelun-Todd D. Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users. Arch Gen Psychiatry 58(10):909–915, 2001.]
- Several studies associate marijuana smoking with employees' increased absences, tardiness, accidents, employees' compensation claims, and job turnover. [11 Gruber AJ, Pope HG, Hudson JI, Yurgelun-Todd D. Attributes of long-term heavy cannabis users: A case control study. Psychological Med 33(8):1415–1422, 2003.]
i think the best advice, based on the above research, is to keep enjoying your marijuana, but take it in edible form, and in MODERATION.
The largest study of its kind has unexpectedly concluded that smoking marijuana, even regularly and heavily, does not lead to lung cancer.
The new findings "were against our expectations," said Donald Tashkin of the University of California at Los Angeles, a pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years.
"We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use," he said. "What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect."
Federal health and drug enforcement officials have widely used Tashkin's previous work on marijuana to make the case that the drug is dangerous. Tashkin said that while he still believes marijuana is potentially harmful, its cancer-causing effects appear to be of less concern than previously thought.
Earlier work established that marijuana does contain cancer-causing chemicals as potentially harmful as those in tobacco, he said. However, marijuana also contains the chemical THC, which he said may kill aging cells and keep them from becoming cancerous.
Tashkin's study, funded by the National Institutes of Health's National Institute on Drug Abuse, involved 1,200 people in Los Angeles who had lung, neck or head cancer and an additional 1,040 people without cancer matched by age, sex and neighborhood.
They were all asked about their lifetime use of marijuana, tobacco and alcohol. The heaviest marijuana smokers had lighted up more than 22,000 times, while moderately heavy usage was defined as smoking 11,000 to 22,000 marijuana cigarettes. Tashkin found that even the very heavy marijuana smokers showed no increased incidence of the three cancers studied.
"This is the largest case-control study ever done, and everyone had to fill out a very extensive questionnaire about marijuana use," he said. "Bias can creep into any research, but we controlled for as many confounding factors as we could, and so I believe these results have real meaning."
Tashkin's group at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA had hypothesized that marijuana would raise the risk of cancer on the basis of earlier small human studies, lab studies of animals, and the fact that marijuana users inhale more deeply and generally hold smoke in their lungs longer than tobacco smokers -- exposing them to the dangerous chemicals for a longer time. In addition, Tashkin said, previous studies found that marijuana tar has 50 percent higher concentrations of chemicals linked to cancer than tobacco cigarette tar.
While no association between marijuana smoking and cancer was found, the study findings, presented to the American Thoracic Society International Conference this week, did find a 20-fold increase in lung cancer among people who smoked two or more packs of cigarettes a day.
The study was limited to people younger than 60 because those older than that were generally not exposed to marijuana in their youth, when it is most often tried.
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Thank you for the valuable information, but your study is much older than the ones I have cited. With all the contradictory findings, I think we can conclude that we should exercise caution when smoking marijuana, because there are a number of very good and methodologically rigorous studies, which I have cited, showing association between regular smoking of marijuana and lung cancer, but then there's also the study you have cited, which appears good on cursory examination, that fails to find such a link. Ergo, there still needs to be more research in this area to rule out an association. Plus, while your study contradicts the ones I have cited regarding lung cancer, it still doesn't follow that marijuana is good for your lungs, even if it doesn't cause cancer. It can still cause chest illness, a weakening of the lungs and immune system, etc., as the studies I have cited show as well. I doubt that smoking ANY plant material regularly is good for your lungs.
There are all kinds of biases at play when it comes to marijuana, on both sides of the debate. There are anti-drug fanatics who equate it with heroin, and on the opposite extreme you have potheads who overstate the benefits of marijuana by claiming it cures cancer, etc., etc. There were scientific studies as recently as the early 2000s claiming that tobacco smoking didn't cause cancer, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are scientific advocates of medical marijuana who inject their own biases into their research.
On the other hand, it's very unlikely that there should be any association between oral ingestion of cannabis and lung cancer, so if you want to be safe you can always eat cannabis; plus, orally active cannabis lasts longer, is more psychedelic, and gives you a better experience anyway, in my opinion.
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Eventually we must do only a handful of GOOD drugs that are NOT harmful to your body.
Please take my advices! :)
After I am done trying everything, I will content myself with only:
- shrooms
- cannabis (in the form of pot brownies, to avoid bad effects from smoking)
- LSD
- DMT
- ayahuasca
- mescaline, peyote
All of these drugs are harmless!
Harmless?!
The hallucinogens listed can certainly do psychological damage that lasts for life if used in large quantities frequently.
I suppose cannabis can be considered relatively safe, at least for occasional use.
I object to the concept that any of the substances listed are safe to use frequently though - even if they do no physical harm someone could en up seriously fucked up (google scientific terms) with prolongued use.
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The only healthy drug, is sobriety. All substances should be used in moderation.
I look at drugs in the same way as i look as pokemon. You gotta catch em all. :) The only drug i probably won't try is the amanitas mushroom. Besides that everything else i will probably do. XD
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Mushrooms may not be physically harmful, but I went a little cookoo this weekend and the next month or so is going to be pretty miserable because of it
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Mushrooms may not be physically harmful, but I went a little cookoo this weekend and the next month or so is going to be pretty miserable because of it
how come?
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It's a long story but basically this weekend I learned that drug users should not have facebook accounts.
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i agree with the others here who have stated that psychedelics are far from harmless. i have great respect and love for what psychedelics have done for me, but they can really mess you up if you do it wrong. I had an LSD trip so bad once that it took me months and months to recover...heck, its been years now and even though I have indeed done acid since then (to prove to myself that I could do it), i still have scars from that experience. it'd be too layered and weird for me to describe here, but please take my word for it.
same thing with shrooms...I've had mushroom trips that crippled me in bed, crying uncontrollably for hours, and leaving me painfully depressed for a month or so afterward.
and DMT? I wouldn't recommend that anyone without a strong background in mysticism or religious studies do this drug. there could be SERIOUS repercussions for being careless with dmt. who knows what spirits you could bring back with you or what part of reality you could alter without being conscious of it. what lies within the dmt experience is so alien and unknown to ALL of us, even the most experience users, that you must have the utmost respect for it and strength in your own character. if you don't, it will break you in half. this is the shit that turns boys into men.
your heart is in the right place, but just please be careful dude.
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You're assuming that having a bad trip is a bad thing. Bad trips are usually beneficial. For the vast majority of people, classic psychedelics ARE harmless. True, for a minority of the population with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness, they may be problematic, but for most users psychedelics are quite harmless, even when they have bad trips.
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You're assuming that having a bad trip is a bad thing. Bad trips are usually beneficial. For the vast majority of people, classic psychedelics ARE harmless. True, for a minority of the population with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness, they may be problematic, but for most users psychedelics are quite harmless, even when they have bad trips.
i have heard this philosophy many times before and agree with the sentiment to an extent. yes, "bad" trips do build character, force you to face your fears, make you think about things you never would have otherwise, etc....but really, the same is true for getting raped, mugged, diagnosed with cancer, etc. and i certainly don't recommend those experiences to anyone (although I can only speak for 1 of the 3).
I've tripped a lot over the years and had some really great ones and some really terrible ones, and i stand firm in my retrospective advice which is to avoid the ugly terrible ones if you can. sure you'll learn a lot or whatever, but I wouldn't wish that kind of hell on anyone.
maybe i'm one of those people with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness and i just don't know it, but I can easily identify within myself the scars i carry with me from my epically awful trips.
psychedelics are a lot of things, but "harmless" sure as hell ain't one of them. if you're not a noob and this is the impression you've got, then consider yourself blessed.
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You're assuming that having a bad trip is a bad thing. Bad trips are usually beneficial. For the vast majority of people, classic psychedelics ARE harmless. True, for a minority of the population with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness, they may be problematic, but for most users psychedelics are quite harmless, even when they have bad trips.
i have heard this philosophy many times before and agree with the sentiment to an extent. yes, "bad" trips do build character, force you to face your fears, make you think about things you never would have otherwise, etc....but really, the same is true for getting raped, mugged, diagnosed with cancer, etc. and i certainly don't recommend those experiences to anyone (although I can only speak for 1 of the 3).
I've tripped a lot over the years and had some really great ones and some really terrible ones, and i stand firm in my retrospective advice which is to avoid the ugly terrible ones if you can. sure you'll learn a lot or whatever, but I wouldn't wish that kind of hell on anyone.
maybe i'm one of those people with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness and i just don't know it, but I can easily identify within myself the scars i carry with me from my epically awful trips.
psychedelics are a lot of things, but "harmless" sure as hell ain't one of them. if you're not a noob and this is the impression you've got, then consider yourself blessed.
+1, amen brother. Bad trips are not fun, and a truly bad trip will hardly ever (in my opinion) lead to any useful thinking/growth.
Difficult trips, on the other hand, where one deals with surfacing emotions, are great for personal growth.
Be safe, all. Respect your drugs or they will kick your ass.
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You're assuming that having a bad trip is a bad thing. Bad trips are usually beneficial. For the vast majority of people, classic psychedelics ARE harmless. True, for a minority of the population with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness, they may be problematic, but for most users psychedelics are quite harmless, even when they have bad trips.
i have heard this philosophy many times before and agree with the sentiment to an extent. yes, "bad" trips do build character, force you to face your fears, make you think about things you never would have otherwise, etc....but really, the same is true for getting raped, mugged, diagnosed with cancer, etc. and i certainly don't recommend those experiences to anyone (although I can only speak for 1 of the 3).
I've tripped a lot over the years and had some really great ones and some really terrible ones, and i stand firm in my retrospective advice which is to avoid the ugly terrible ones if you can. sure you'll learn a lot or whatever, but I wouldn't wish that kind of hell on anyone.
maybe i'm one of those people with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness and i just don't know it, but I can easily identify within myself the scars i carry with me from my epically awful trips.
psychedelics are a lot of things, but "harmless" sure as hell ain't one of them. if you're not a noob and this is the impression you've got, then consider yourself blessed.
Agreed. What one considers a "bad trip" is very subjective. A bad trip to one person might be terrifying visuals that make them curl up in a ball under the covers, while as for another person, a bad trip might be flashbacks or reminders of a traumatic event in their life, which can be significantly more terrifying and mentally scarring than just overly intense visuals. +1 to Spacewasp
sdesu
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Bad trips are not fun, and a truly bad trip will hardly ever (in my opinion) lead to any useful thinking/growth.
Difficult trips, on the other hand, where one deals with surfacing emotions, are great for personal growth.
Be safe, all. Respect your drugs or they will kick your ass.
yesss! i really like the distinctions you made here
a difficult trip is when you realize how much it hurts that your dad was never there for you as a child.
a bad trip is when you get fixated on thinking you've shit yourself and spend the whole trip in the bathroom "washing it up"
a TRULY bad trip is when your reality rips apart, you don't know who you are or where you are, and you're 100% convinced that your friends are reptilian demons from the 5th dimension sent here to steal you away so they can assimilate your essence into their army of lost souls and wage war on the earth.
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Bad trips are not fun, and a truly bad trip will hardly ever (in my opinion) lead to any useful thinking/growth.
Difficult trips, on the other hand, where one deals with surfacing emotions, are great for personal growth.
Be safe, all. Respect your drugs or they will kick your ass.
yesss! i really like the distinctions you made here
a difficult trip is when you realize how much it hurts that your dad was never there for you as a child.
a bad trip is when you get fixated on thinking you've shit yourself and spend the whole trip in the bathroom "washing it up"
a TRULY bad trip is when your reality rips apart, you don't know who you are or where you are, and you're 100% convinced that your friends are reptilian demons from the 5th dimension sent here to steal you away so they can assimilate your essence into their army of lost souls and wage war on the earth.
My first trip (and first experience with psychedelics) ever a few weeks ago was 4g of mushrooms. I had a TRULY bad trip by your standards and I'm honestly positive I'm a better person for it. I learned a lot about myself.
What I'm saying is, a truly horrific trip doesn't universally lead to scarring.
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I threw away any drug taboos I had about a year ago, pretty much correlating to the opening of Silk Road and all the opportunities it came with. I'm going to grad school for molecular toxicology and biochemistry, with my main interest being applications in pharmacology.
After about 4 years spent researching drugs, I've learned many things. But probably the most important thing is that moderation is key. Unless you suffer from a random bad reaction, pretty much any drug has an acceptable safety range. Drug taboos are absolutely retarded. What really gets me is the "all natural" crew. I get it that it sounds cool to tote around a "hey everybody look at me, i'm one with the earth because i only use drugs found on it". But really now, chemicals are chemicals. There's a shitload of scary natural and unnatural ones. I mean look at LSD - it was once a demon research chemical and now it's part of the psychonaut's essential canon.
The first drug I ever tried was shrooms. I still like my psychedelics every now and then, but for me they require much more planning and mental fortitude than other drugs. There's certain drugs I still won't take - like datura and pcp; and ROA's I won't use - needles, smoking, and snorting (for lots of reasons, including easily messed up sinuses). Other than that, I've tried all the major taboo drugs once or twice, and I like pretty much every class of chemicals.
TL;DR: Drug taboos are for the ignorant. Even the self-proclaimed "enlightened" "all-natural only" philosophy is more a taboo than an evidence based opinion
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You're assuming that having a bad trip is a bad thing. Bad trips are usually beneficial. For the vast majority of people, classic psychedelics ARE harmless. True, for a minority of the population with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness, they may be problematic, but for most users psychedelics are quite harmless, even when they have bad trips.
But how is someone to know if the are predisposed to mental illness aggravated by substance use? There are tests to indicate if you are prone to schizophrenia, but those are rarely taken outside of the laboratory unless there is some reason to suspect it.
Having a 'bad trip' does not have to be harmless in any case - the experience can be pretty traumatic even if your brain chemistry is perfectly normal.
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Even a bad trip that seems completely irrelevant to your life can be analyzed for latent content. Look for symbolism, generalize details into overarching concepts and see what it tells you. Even your own reaction can teach you something.
I recall hearing once that the two parts of an experience, any experience, which stick with us most are the most powerful emotion and the resolving emotion. When I have a bad trip, I ride it out and when it's over everything is beautiful and I'm glad to be alive - a positive resolving emotion. I can use the most powerful emotions at the peak of the bad trip to skew my perceptual pleasure/horror scale, helping me to appreciate everyday life. Remember, we're all equipped with one scale and we resize our experiences to fit.
Anyway, once the bad trip is over and I have studied it and am better for it, I immediately consider it worth it. Knowing I'm going to consider it so afterwards regardless, I consider bad trips worth my time and chemicals going into it. This is how I face any proposed dose of any psychedelic with fearless respect and pleasure-anxiety butterflies.
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You're assuming that having a bad trip is a bad thing. Bad trips are usually beneficial. For the vast majority of people, classic psychedelics ARE harmless. True, for a minority of the population with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness, they may be problematic, but for most users psychedelics are quite harmless, even when they have bad trips.
i have heard this philosophy many times before and agree with the sentiment to an extent. yes, "bad" trips do build character, force you to face your fears, make you think about things you never would have otherwise, etc....but really, the same is true for getting raped, mugged, diagnosed with cancer, etc. and i certainly don't recommend those experiences to anyone (although I can only speak for 1 of the 3).
I've tripped a lot over the years and had some really great ones and some really terrible ones, and i stand firm in my retrospective advice which is to avoid the ugly terrible ones if you can. sure you'll learn a lot or whatever, but I wouldn't wish that kind of hell on anyone.
maybe i'm one of those people with a predisposition to schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness and i just don't know it, but I can easily identify within myself the scars i carry with me from my epically awful trips.
psychedelics are a lot of things, but "harmless" sure as hell ain't one of them. if you're not a noob and this is the impression you've got, then consider yourself blessed.
+1, amen brother. Bad trips are not fun, and a truly bad trip will hardly ever (in my opinion) lead to any useful thinking/growth.
Difficult trips, on the other hand, where one deals with surfacing emotions, are great for personal growth.
Be safe, all. Respect your drugs or they will kick your ass.
well, i don't take psychedelics just to 'have fun'. Of course i'd rather have fun than not, but psychedelics offer greater things than mere entertainment. I am okay with having fun 90% of the time, but sometimes it's good to have a spiritual experience that is not necessarily fun and may fit all of the criteria of a 'bad trip'
i have had the worst trips i can imagine possible to anyone, and in hindsight i do not regret any one of them. i benefited from all of them, even though while they were happening to me i thought i was dying or in hell.
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Every experience is worth trying once, and I'd certainly like to try methamphetamine... but godamn, the thought ow hard the crash would be, or any sort of meth addiction. Same goes for heroin and cocaine.