Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: tcobambientAgain on March 01, 2012, 08:02 pm
-
Have not tried either but was wondering which one should be my next order? Thoughts?
-
No one has any thoughts on this?
-
Ah. I must have some shit mixed up because I hate speed.
-
Umm you should just drop some acid.
Didnt you even read that super long post I wrote when you asked someone to convince you in the other thread? lol
But for real
>>> lsd <<<
-
Oh my god. I'm so sorry. I never checked that thread again. I'll have to go find it and read your convincing argument to try acid.
-
Umm you should just drop some acid.
Didnt you even read that super long post I wrote when you asked someone to convince you in the other thread? lol
But for real
>>> lsd <<<
OK. Just read your post. Thanks for the info. So, if you are domestic (US) who would you recommend that I can trust to buy a hit of acid from to try out?
And I am a product of 1980s after school specials where people are jumping off of buildings thinking they can fly after a hit of acid.
-
Methylone is nice and friendly, but AMT (I haven't tried it) seems to be a bigger deal. You can have a really nice night on Methylone (especially if you're with other people) but AMT is a little... more? Just trying to relate it to other experiences of my own from what I've heard.
But, yeah, if you haven't dropped acid, do that first. LSD is all around wonderful.
-
Pretty sure the people jumping off buildings believing they could fly on LSD is a myth, no? Something about a rich mans daughter's death and how the family wants to blame it on lsd than bad parenting? America.
-
Methylone - good when you want mdma-lite experience. I always end up re-dosing multiple times to keep the buzz going. It has an unpleasant comedown, lately I've been wondering if it's worth it for me. Nothing special.
AMT - been reading about this one a lot this week. Waiting for my order to arrive, feeling like a little kid before christmas:) Really like what I read about it.
If you're familiar with mdma and have no use for 'magic-less' version of it - skip methylone and go with AMT, imo ;)
-
Cool. I think I'll give AMT a try. Thanks for the advice.
-
I've never even heard of AMT but when I checked out Erowid, this is what it had to say:
AMT is a long-acting, synthetic psychedelic and euphoric stimulant known for causing nausea and vomiting.
Doesn't sound like much fun. However, I do have a lot of experience with Methylone. It's nothing like LSD at all. It's much more similar to MDMA but without the psychedelic properties. It doesn't last as long and it can be very fiendish. I take it in 125mg doses and find myself blowing through a gram over the course of a day. I'm not proud to admit that I've gone through 5g in a weekend. It brings out the sexual beast in me. Using methylone is the only time I've ever felt like a junkie.
I'm not trying to dissuade you, just letting you know my experiences with the drug. You may like it or you may not. I'd go with MDMA before anything else and I would definitely research AMT before trying it. I think there's much better highs out there.
-
Pretty good summary I've only used methylone once so far but I know what you mean, I had the same feeling when I tried MDPV for the first (and last) time, but I guess in hindsight it's shown me my proverbial 'blind spot' to addiction, stimulants are like that I guess. Got some AMT on the way now though to see how it goes, I do like methylone though it's like subtle ecstasy, but you don't really know what you've got til it's gone.
You couldn't pay me to use MDPV but you're right, you never know what your weaknesses are until you try. That's the main reason I won't touch opiates and am hesitant to try coke.
Good luck with the AMT. I hope you'll share your experiences with us.
-
Thanks Crisis. I may just stick with trying out some RCs I've been researching.
-
TcobambientAgain,
Have you considered MXE or 4-aco-dmt? I like both quite a bit. MXE is pretty cheap, like $30 a gram. 4-aco-dmt at $150 a gram isn't, but both are available on the gray market. Both are forgiving and well worth your time.
-
I wish I could try LSD or any hallucinogenic, but i've got severe unipolar depression and to take such a drug would be a seriously stupid thing to do (I can see there being no good trip to it, I hate everything, seriously)
I'm stuck to entheogen's too, methylone is pretty decent for sure, but i'd still rather just have MDMA (though methylone is a bit less speedier).
Any and all info on how someone who wants .... uh nvm (FUCK LIFE) ... to take LSD or another enactogenic hallucinogen without freaking out with a bad trip?
-
I can certainly see the potential for a bad trip, but I have pretty severe constant depression... and HORRIBLE anxiety. sounds like the making for trips from hell, but:
the only time I ever feel truly at peace and content are certain moments on psychedelics like lsd and mescaline
i can also reach depths of despair darker than my standard moods frequently at points, yet they are always accompanied by realizations regarding the negative feelings and are fleeting, then quickly returning to a positive outlook and approach for the future. now, even while depressed I still find unbelievable appreciation for the world and manage to hold onto those positive outlooks at times, so I feel they have had a lasting beneficial influence on my life. nothing radical, just being grateful for the blessings in my life and seeing the beauty in life through all the shit of modern society...
I dont necessarily understand if you are using mdma your concern for a psychedelic experience? Also, bad trips from low doses of psychedelics can be treated with benzos, although when you stick these out and work through the negative feelings are when the true insights occur.
Good luck, I feel lsd is so incredible if you have that desire to experience it, you should totally take advantage of the opportunities available
-
TcobambientAgain,
Have you considered MXE or 4-aco-dmt? I like both quite a bit. MXE is pretty cheap, like $30 a gram. 4-aco-dmt at $150 a gram isn't, but both are available on the gray market. Both are forgiving and well worth your time.
Oh yes. MXE is my all time favorite drug. The problem is you can't function on a deep MXE trip. I'd like to be able to drop some acid and walk around.
-
Oh yes. MXE is my all time favorite drug. The problem is you can't function on a deep MXE trip. I'd like to be able to drop some acid and walk around.
You hit the nail on the head. I hate being incapacitated while tripping. Probably MXE's only fault.
-
Oh yes. MXE is my all time favorite drug. The problem is you can't function on a deep MXE trip. I'd like to be able to drop some acid and walk around.
You hit the nail on the head. I hate being incapacitated while tripping. Probably MXE's only fault.
But goddamn I love it! Just railed two big lines about a minute ago. My last MXE trip a few days ago was probably the best overall drug experience I've ever had. I wrote up a thread about it. Right after the trip ended it felt like I had just had the best orgasm of my life. And the actual trip was just so mindblowing. That feeling of not really knowing if you exist or ever existed. (someone help me, is that anything like "ego death"?) I love it! I woke up feeling like my soul had been cleansed.
-
Oh yes. MXE is my all time favorite drug. The problem is you can't function on a deep MXE trip. I'd like to be able to drop some acid and walk around.
You hit the nail on the head. I hate being incapacitated while tripping. Probably MXE's only fault.
So Crisis, explain to me the differences and similarities of a really good MXE trip and an LSD trip. I know they are both totally different things but there is the psychedelic side to MXE. I'm curious how things compare, if at all? I've never done acid so my question may be dumb and unanswerable? But I have a feeling that there might be something to it. Just throwing shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks.
-
So Crisis, explain to me the differences and similarities of a really good MXE trip and an LSD trip. I know they are both totally different things but there is the psychedelic side to MXE. I'm curious how things compare, if at all? I've never done acid so my question may be dumb and unanswerable? But I have a feeling that there might be something to it. Just throwing shit at the wall and seeing if it sticks.
Your question isn't dumb at all.
To be honest, I've only tried acid on three occasions and I found myself to be quite hardheaded towards its effects. I have much more experience with shrooms and various tryptamines and phenethylamines such as 2-ce, 2c-i, 2c-p, 4-aco-dmt, 5-meo-mipt and a few others.
I know others will disagree but I found LSD to be juvenile in comparison to trypts, phenes and organic psychedelics. I found it's effects, at least the visual components, to be almost cliché. All the various effects: swirling lights, shifting colors, etc. you've seen in countless movies and parodies were there in an almost comical amount. It has a very groovy, goofy feeling to it and I found it impossible to take it seriously. It almost felt like a designer drug created by the government to test on the masses. I kept expecting to see a Sandoz or Timothy Leary trademark logo emitting somewhere on the wall. But it does have a slight focus to it, not just with the visuals but also on the mental state. So, I presume it's possible to undergo deep, critical thinking while under the influence of LSD but I feel other substances would be better suited. That's what I like about MXE, I feel like I can really get down to the bottom of things while under its influence but like you said, it's impossible to do anything physical while on it.
I've experienced what I suppose some people would describe as ego-death while experimenting with 2-ce and 2-ci. I found these two substances to have very dissociating affects, at least the first time I tried them. Similar to MXE but different in feeling. I could barely acknowledge that I was even human and I could see how it could frighten most people if they never tripped before. I've never experienced ego-death with LSD but guess you could if you took enough of it. You almost expect (or at least I do) to lose your mind while on MXE but because of it's soothing abilities, much like MDMA, you don't feel like you're going to lose it.
If you haven't tried it, I definitely recommend giving LSD a whirl, I mean why not. It just seems overly expensive and hard to tell what you're getting but if you can snag some that you know is good, go for it. But I'd go for at least a couple of tabs. One just wasn't enough for me. I was surprised how weak it was in comparison to shrooms. But if you're looking for something new to try out and haven't tried mushrooms, I would definitely go that route. Get a 1/8 from Rocker and you will be flying amongst the stars, guaranteed, which isn't something I could say about LSD. But YMMV, you just never know.
It's all about what you're looking for. I feel shrooms are better at thinking things out while still being able to walk around plus I think it's much more fun. And again, I haven't much experience with LSD so I'm sure I'm short-shifting it quite a bit.
I'm not sure if I've answered your question, I do tend to ramble on, but feel first to ask me anything, I love sharing my experiences with people. It's one of the main reasons I experiment with these drugs.
Good luck,
Crisis
-
I dont necessarily understand if you are using mdma your concern for a psychedelic experience?
MDMA in low to normal doses is hardly psychedelic. In higher doses I've had a couple of hallucinations, but nothing extreme. I don't see how concern for a psychedelic experience would keep you from MDMA.
Methylone: I like it. It's MDMA-light. Which is cool, because you can act very normal (unlike MDMA, on which you can't stop showing how much you love everyone and can't stop chatting). The stimulation is very similar, so you're wide awake while you're coming down (getting the annoying feeling you have to do something, but don't know what). I've found that a small dose of Xanax helps a lot. Either I just relax on the couch or I can even fall asleep using that. The day after Methylone is nowhere near the day after MDMA, after Methylone I can just function and go to work. Methylone can make you crave for more, very similar to cocaine. Just be strong, don't end up on a binge (or do ;) ).
-
Your question isn't dumb at all.
Thanks Crisis. Your explanation was great. I had another end of my mind experience on MXE last night but it's in such an awesome and profound way that it's not scary. You just go where it leads and trust it.
My first experience on shrooms was about 4 or 5 years ago and it was really amazing. I've ate 2 1/8s on separate occasions over the past couple of months and have had zero effect. I'm totally off depression meds now for 2 weeks and I have some shrooms coming and I'm wondering if they will work. Although, I've been on depression meds since 1996 and the shrooms worked the first time while I was on meds so who knows? I'm really hoping these shrooms work this time. I'd love another great shroom trip. I have a feeling that I may just need more than an 1/8 to get off and that's the problem?
Thanks again for the advice.
-
I can certainly see the potential for a bad trip, but I have pretty severe constant depression... and HORRIBLE anxiety. sounds like the making for trips from hell, but:
the only time I ever feel truly at peace and content are certain moments on psychedelics like lsd and mescaline
i can also reach depths of despair darker than my standard moods frequently at points, yet they are always accompanied by realizations regarding the negative feelings and are fleeting, then quickly returning to a positive outlook and approach for the future. now, even while depressed I still find unbelievable appreciation for the world and manage to hold onto those positive outlooks at times, so I feel they have had a lasting beneficial influence on my life. nothing radical, just being grateful for the blessings in my life and seeing the beauty in life through all the shit of modern society...
I dont necessarily understand if you are using mdma your concern for a psychedelic experience? Also, bad trips from low doses of psychedelics can be treated with benzos, although when you stick these out and work through the negative feelings are when the true insights occur.
Good luck, I feel lsd is so incredible if you have that desire to experience it, you should totally take advantage of the opportunities available
I didn't say MDMA or Methylone are 'psychadelic', that's why those are the types of drug's I stick to, i've never hallucinated off MDMA or methylone. I use them recreationally for the euphoria like I do with percs or oxy's (though I avoid opiates mostly cuz of their mad expensive cost and they cause rebound migraines in me worse then the original ... a good deterrent in a way I guess)
I've had a few people recommend MXE to me, in particular to try as a tool (at lower doses) to treat the daily chronic migraines I suffer. I should grab some I guess, I just keep wimping out like a pussy cuz I guess of the fear of a bad trip heh. If you know any vendor with particularly good MXE or even LSD I would love you and be very grateful for your advice (PM me though, i'm not here to prop this vendor up over another kind of thing heh). If I ever have a ... not bad day I think so long as it's pure good stuff I may as well try a half hit of LSD and take it from there. I know it's kinda worthless just to take half a dose, but like explained with the nature of my concern and depression I just have to be super ultra careful. I want desperately to search myself, and my spirituality, and hopefully SR can help with that, I just need to get MXE and LSD that I can TRUST is good so that I can at least eliminate that fear (I have bad GAD and SAD anxiety disorders too ... lol, bit of a train wreck, but i'm still on the tracks lol). So please do PM me if any of you don't mind, a sample'd be nice too seeing as I want very little to test out my reaction to a powerful hallucinogenic enactogen, but meh, i'm just a begging bum haha.
I've heard benzo's can bring you down but i'm heavily benzo tolerant from years of using clonazepam in pretty high doses (doctor prescribed), and actually get pissed when I want a benzo buzz off this pile of valiums or xanax cuz I have to eat so many its just stupid lol.
Thanks for the advice and taking time to write it, i'm gonna try and seize the opportunity SR provides to get some psychadelics that will let me explore myself and perhaps fix/figure out some of the elements of my depression. Just need the will to get up !! (fuck depression, heh)
-
I wish I could try LSD or any hallucinogenic, but i've got severe unipolar depression and to take such a drug would be a seriously stupid thing to do (I can see there being no good trip to it, I hate everything, seriously)
I'm stuck to entheogen's too, methylone is pretty decent for sure, but i'd still rather just have MDMA (though methylone is a bit less speedier).
Any and all info on how someone who wants .... uh nvm (FUCK LIFE) ... to take LSD or another enactogenic hallucinogen without freaking out with a bad trip?
LSD/Psychedelics have profound therapeutic potential. In my opinion there are no such things as 'bad trips', there are 'difficult' trips, but in the end you will feel that the experience was worth it. It is natural to be afraid of the unknown, but it's not worth it. If I send you a couple tabs will you promise to come back and write a trip report? There's no reason to be scared of psychotherapy, it is for the best. I'd give you my # so that you can call me for moral support but that's not gonna happen after I send you drugs. 8)
I've got some tabs that I'm adamant to the fact it was laid with Swiss crystal, only the best. It's from my personal stash. Other than my day job, I spend the rest of the day lurking on this board and guiding friends or newcomers through psychotherapy in my own home. Sure, there's been some difficult trips but given the set and setting, and the comfort-ability of being able to talk to someone without feeling judgement, I've never had to dealt with people going insane / out of control on LSD. I've only had one instance where a patient decided to get butt-fucking naked, but this was on a 2000mcg trip that HE wanted to do.
-
Thanks Crisis. Your explanation was great. I had another end of my mind experience on MXE last night but it's in such an awesome and profound way that it's not scary. You just go where it leads and trust it.
My first experience on shrooms was about 4 or 5 years ago and it was really amazing. I've ate 2 1/8s on separate occasions over the past couple of months and have had zero effect. I'm totally off depression meds now for 2 weeks and I have some shrooms coming and I'm wondering if they will work. Although, I've been on depression meds since 1996 and the shrooms worked the first time while I was on meds so who knows? I'm really hoping these shrooms work this time. I'd love another great shroom trip. I have a feeling that I may just need more than an 1/8 to get off and that's the problem?
Thanks again for the advice.
You're most welcome. :)
Yeah, I'd be willing to bet it was the anti-depressants but you never know. I would think though, if mushrooms affected you before, it should again.
I've experienced cross-tolerance with various compounds but mushrooms can usually break any tolerance I might have built up. MXE is usually pretty good in that way too. Another reason I like the stuff, you pretty much know you're going to trip no matter what.
-
I wish I could try LSD or any hallucinogenic, but i've got severe unipolar depression and to take such a drug would be a seriously stupid thing to do (I can see there being no good trip to it, I hate everything, seriously)
I'm stuck to entheogen's too, methylone is pretty decent for sure, but i'd still rather just have MDMA (though methylone is a bit less speedier).
Any and all info on how someone who wants .... uh nvm (FUCK LIFE) ... to take LSD or another enactogenic hallucinogen without freaking out with a bad trip?
LSD/Psychedelics have profound therapeutic potential. In my opinion there are no such things as 'bad trips', there are 'difficult' trips, but in the end you will feel that the experience was worth it. It is natural to be afraid of the unknown, but it's not worth it. If I send you a couple tabs will you promise to come back and write a trip report? There's no reason to be scared of psychotherapy, it is for the best. I'd give you my # so that you can call me for moral support but that's not gonna happen after I send you drugs. 8)
I've got some tabs that I'm adamant to the fact it was laid with Swiss crystal, only the best. It's from my personal stash. Other than my day job, I spend the rest of the day lurking on this board and guiding friends or newcomers through psychotherapy in my own home. Sure, there's been some difficult trips but given the set and setting, and the comfort-ability of being able to talk to someone without feeling judgement, I've never had to dealt with people going insane / out of control on LSD. I've only had one instance where a patient decided to get butt-fucking naked, but this was on a 2000mcg trip that HE wanted to do.
That's an extraordinary offer lol, to call a stranger on the internet for moral support, but yeah ... no don't give me your number lol. You brought up a part of what's holding me back and that's that of the very few people I know they are only drinker's/smokers and most of them ... regardless of my hours of biochemical rantings about their relative safety (in moderation) detest and loath entheogens except for shrooms (because in their words 'their natural'). I may not have taken any 'hallucinogens', but have read and researched so much about entheogens and enactogens, my side hobby/interest from my real boring actual biochemistry job i guess. Shulgin is my hero for his contributions to society AND organic chemistry.
Come to think of it there is at least one person that just came to mind I trust enough to 'babysit' me. I'm def. interested in exploring psychotherapy, i've gone to pretty much every 'medical specialist' you can possibly conceive already lol. It's just all about being comfortable (with my babysitter and with faith in the drugs quality) I figure, but no I never thought i'd go psychotic, I just really question and yes legitimately fear (but in a good way) the state of mind LSD/etc. will induce, but as you said i'm not gonna jump out a window lol and i'm hoping there's a lot I can learn because i'm currently at a very stagnant point in life, hard to describe but exploring myself and spirituality is probably my best option right now.
Check your PM and thank you for your generosity :) :)
-
quinone, from the way it sounds you are at a perfect point in you life to confront some of the issues hindering your happiness. It is the perfect tool for spiritual enlightenment and coming to terms with many aspects of anxiety as well since you mentioned those. I would recommend purchasing from tony! hes in CAN, and the product was confirmed to be clean lsd. hopefully he is offering ten strips again, and at 70 bucks a great value. he should be getting more tomorrow, but will sell out quick if youre interested.
When I referred to taking mdma and psychedelics, I WAS NOT saying that mdma causes hallucinations... the simple fact is mdma is way more stressful on the brain than lsd. part of an lsd experience is that same serotonergic euphoria component, but I wasnt even referring to that either. Mainly I was thinking long term, like after you have come down from each drug. lsd leaves me feeling uplifted and positive, my soul rejuvenated. mdma leaves me feeling drained and down, with worse depression than prior to the experience. maybe thats a personal difference.
- miR
-
quinone, from the way it sounds you are at a perfect point in you life to confront some of the issues hindering your happiness. It is the perfect tool for spiritual enlightenment and coming to terms with many aspects of anxiety as well since you mentioned those. I would recommend purchasing from tony! hes in CAN, and the product was confirmed to be clean lsd. hopefully he is offering ten strips again, and at 70 bucks a great value. he should be getting more tomorrow, but will sell out quick if youre interested.
When I referred to taking mdma and psychedelics, I WAS NOT saying that mdma causes hallucinations... the simple fact is mdma is way more stressful on the brain than lsd. part of an lsd experience is that same serotonergic euphoria component, but I wasnt even referring to that either. Mainly I was thinking long term, like after you have come down from each drug. lsd leaves me feeling uplifted and positive, my soul rejuvenated. mdma leaves me feeling drained and down, with worse depression than prior to the experience. maybe thats a personal difference.
- miR
Yeah i'd been looking at tony's listings cuz he's from Canada. Never really read any straight answers on the quality of his LSD, but I know I want quality and NOT quantity. One of the 'fearful' components for me is that if i'm going to explore that realm, it be done so with a pure and correctly quantified (eg. claiming they are 160ug blotters when only about 80ug or whatever) LSD. The unfortunate scamfest going down with LSD vendors on SR has me really scetchy about buying any until I find someone who can convince me it's pure and quantified. You know me from other posts miR lol, i'm stupid OCD about things like 'purity'.
Yeah the MDMA on the brain thing is more stressful but .. i'm not going to get into an argument other then to say that all research conducted btwn 1982 and 2002 has been REDACTED and then pulled from publications, so the neurotoxic effects of MDMA and it's analogs are different (signifigantly less neurotoxic) then those many papers that were all redacted had suggested. Needless to say though, nothing you can say will ever convince me that MDMA is more neurotoxic then a complex polyaromatic tryptamine like LSD :D I DO APPRECIATE YOUR ADVICE THOUGH !!!
I have to look into whether or not I should even be taking any of these drugs cuz i'm on a GABA agonist (gabapentin) and an S(N/D)RI
-
Sadly it looks like tony is only listing half and full sheets... 100 ug is a pretty standard dose and I believe they would have been good quality. i was really hoping to be able to pick up a strip, been needing a healing session myself, so thats a bummer
If anything I would say there is a metabolite of MDMA at least that promotes oxygen radical formation... I am aware of your stance on the issue and will agree to disagree :) kinda stabs me in the heart to hear you suggest lsd has any toxicity at recreational doses so we are even... why though, why?? :P
The gaba agonist probably wont have much effect since you are on it regularly i assume, although generally they may dull the experience and prevent much anxiety associated with it. unfortunately, generally ssris (not sure about norep) prevent or decrease psychedelic experiences, but also from really rolling on mdma... so if you can roll, you can probably trip too although it may reduce the intensity as well
-
kinda stabs me in the heart to hear you suggest lsd has any toxicity at recreational doses so we are even... why though, why?? :P
LOL. At rec doses, hell at extreme doses LSD has minimal neurotoxicity I agree. I just used it as an example of a polyaromatic hydrocarbon, which in my mind produce more dangerous and longer lasting metabolites then drugs with simpler backbone, like phenethylamines.
The gaba agonist probably wont have much effect since you are on it regularly i assume, although generally they may dull the experience and prevent much anxiety associated with it. unfortunately, generally ssris (not sure about norep) prevent or decrease psychedelic experiences, but also from really rolling on mdma... so if you can roll, you can probably trip too although it may reduce the intensity as well
Yeah I have to stop taking the SNDRI a few days before I plan to roll, which I do very rarely cuz it is playing with fire to stop cold turkey one regulating drug, just to take a recreational drug which will produce much more immediate (and thus obviously profound) equilibrium changes in adrenergic/dopaminergic/serotogenic.
The same is true of shrooms, which are the only 'psychedelic' i've been able to get my hands on until SR. I got (still am) very pissed that I couldn't trip on shrooms when 3 friends in front of me are tripping balls, and I ended up eating something ludicrous like 5g.
For this kind of thing (going on my 1st LSD journey) i'm going to do everything my mind can think of to prepare probably 2 weeks at least in advance, specifically to fix my diet at least during that time, but also various supplements/whatever I can think of to protect my brain, but I will have stopped taking my anti-depressant for a few days before trying LSD or else I won't get high, I already know that.
Sucks for me that i'm a benzo user too cuz they're the best 'exit' tool for an unpleasant trip, yet i'd need to eat 8-10mg alprazolam just to get any effect.
-
Man that is an unfortunate tolerance to benzos and shrooms! You should keep an eye out for flunitrazepam as you were saying, I bet that would at least work to mellow you out during a trip :P i dont even like shrooms really though by the way. i dont think you will have a bad trip really. sure there may be a little anxiety but you are used to that and should hopefully know some techniques to calm yourself with breathing or whatever by now. heres the important thing that helps: you just have to let go and accept the drug, not fight it, and then enjoy the ride. this is just one of the therapeutic aspects. if you start feeling uncomfortable change your surroundings, or just the music and the whole trip will change. plus always just keep in mind the safety profile, its just the drug and in a few hours you will feel back to normal.
I know what you are saying about quitting anything cold turkey! I am surprised you dont feel horrible and crazy actually, but all in the name of getting the most out of drug experiences :)
I dont really know much about the toxicology involving the processing and excretion of drugs... do you think the larger the backbone the necessarily means more byproducts and the greater chance for something stressful? I just know mdma has a metabolite that has been proven to promote the reactive oxygen species already and my thoughts with lsd you only have a couple hundred micrograms to a gram max of material to excrete versus say in excess of one hundred milligrams for mdma which is about a hundred to a thousand times more byproduct. not arguing mdma is dangerous (our body has processes to deal with free radicals...), just suggesting lsd is REALLY safe and you shouldnt be nervous to try it bro :)
sorry i am so off topic everyone else!
-
Man that is an unfortunate tolerance to benzos and shrooms! You should keep an eye out for flunitrazepam as you were saying, I bet that would at least work to mellow you out during a trip :P i dont even like shrooms really though by the way. i dont think you will have a bad trip really. sure there may be a little anxiety but you are used to that and should hopefully know some techniques to calm yourself with breathing or whatever by now. heres the important thing that helps: you just have to let go and accept the drug, not fight it, and then enjoy the ride. this is just one of the therapeutic aspects. if you start feeling uncomfortable change your surroundings, or just the music and the whole trip will change. plus always just keep in mind the safety profile, its just the drug and in a few hours you will feel back to normal.
I know what you are saying about quitting anything cold turkey! I am surprised you dont feel horrible and crazy actually, but all in the name of getting the most out of drug experiences :)
I dont really know much about the toxicology involving the processing and excretion of drugs... do you think the larger the backbone the necessarily means more byproducts and the greater chance for something stressful? I just know mdma has a metabolite that has been proven to promote the reactive oxygen species already and my thoughts with lsd you only have a couple hundred micrograms to a gram max of material to excrete versus say in excess of one hundred milligrams for mdma which is about a hundred to a thousand times more byproduct. not arguing mdma is dangerous (our body has processes to deal with free radicals...), just suggesting lsd is REALLY safe and you shouldnt be nervous to try it bro :)
sorry i am so off topic everyone else!
I'm sorry I threadjacked guys :D, its fun though to finally talk to someone(s) who ... are smart. I know I could PM him, but we all can learn now ! :)
I'm keepin my eye open for flunitrazepam. It's funny cuz i've been arguing the longest time in threads that that drug shouldn't be brought to SR, but now come to think of it it does have practical value for calming a trip (I still think it has little benzo recreational value, heh). If I see some now though i'm gonna snatch a few just so I have that 'safety blanket' (even if it's just in my head that I feel 'safe' knowing I have a way out). I've found Etizolam to be an awesome benzo actually, and it's so stupid cheap (I pay $0.42 per pill) ... duh why am I talking about using large amounts of alprazolam when I have etizolam lol (I guess it's all the benzo induced blackouts :D).
Yeah stopping my anti-depressant for a few days ... really fucks me up. My doc insisted at beginning of January that I switch to a new anti-depressant (Cymbalta), even though the one I was on was working perfectly well. I'll tell you the last two months have been the worst in my life, I attempted suicide once ( :( ) and am still and I think always will be recovering .. aka I don't think i'll get back to the level of therapeutic effect it gave me before he forced me to stop taking it (and i'm at the mercy of his script pad). I'll leave it at that ... take your meds boys and girls lol.
Regarding toxicology, I know a bit, but this is mostly all just speculation cuz we're talking about compounds with little research history compared to 'legal' compounds. It's not the larger backbone that I question, it's the polyaromaticity. It takes several passes through phase I metabolism before LSD's metabolites are 'small enough' (well 'reactive' enough, eg. now posses some nucleophilic site) to be acetylated or otherwise 'polarized' (bad use of the term) for excretion during phase II. The metabolites of LSD are harmless themselves, but the transient and intermediate species that form during the 'metabolism' of polyaromatic compounds form para-quinone (YAY QUINONE lawl) and other 'fragile' aromatic compounds. Para-quinone is particularly insidious because hydrolysis of one of the ketones restore's conjugation making it more favourable, but the hydrolyzed intermediate that's created is a free radical (with a notable stability and lifetime due to restored aromaticity). Probably similar to the reactive oxygen you speak of in MDMA, though i'm curious to know which oxygen it is and how it comes to be reactive. I can see logic for argument that the methylenedioxy moiety becomes the target for metabolism because there is potential for it to become resonance stabalized, but I personally don't buy it because it would take a lot of ATP/NADPH to polarize that symmetric moiety to become reactive to change, especially bond conjugation. I'm not dismissing your statement, I would just need to read the paper cuz I have a feeling that the paper discussing reactive oxygen species in MDMA is just demonstrating that a reactive oxygen can be formed in vivo. The methylenedioxy moiety with the oxygens is hugging onto (well into) the 5-HT2a receptor pretty damned hard (and deep into the receptor) as well.
Also, I'm not saying LSD's metabolism causes you harm, cuz i'm talking about species that exist for seconds (intermediates) or picoseconds (transient structures), it's just considerably more difficult for P450 metabolism to evolve the final tagged polar compounds for excretion. Many poisons (like organophosphates) work through the mechanism that they are already so polar that the body is unable to make them any more polar, which is your bodies primary method of 'discerning' foreign compounds cuz it's passive (transport across cell membrane and into excretion 'channels'/'paths') so they just sit lingering in the cell, eventually mutating it's DNA enough that it induces apoptosis of itself.
It's hard to discuss the mass of chemical and it's contribution because the bioavailability spectrum is probably very different for LSD and MDMA, especially when they hit the BBB. LSD is a pretty wickedly magical organic compound actually, cuz for it's size one would think it would be more difficult to transport across the BBB. I'm not sure the mechanism of action for how LSD does this, but I speculate that it's cuz LSD is planar and mostly non-polar, but that carboxamine moeity looks pretty damned BBB hostile. Point is, the amount of MDMA that actually crosses the BBB is probably in the ug range anyways, it's just got a much lower BBB bioavailability then LSD, which I think 90%+ is distributed to/across the BBB.
LSD is definitely safe physiological speaking, it's the psychological ramifications of the drug i'm concerned about.
-
That is pretty ironic you were saying it shouldnt be on SR, and then when considered under a different set of circumstances it seems appropriate. Just a general property of drugs in general though, just rophynol is so commonly associated with rape it has an unfortunate stigma. I would agree little to no recreational value though since the hypnotic and amnesiac effects are so strong. If you have etizolam and it works for you, ya probably dont need to worry about fluni for a bad trip. Like you said, just the comfort of "knowing" you could end a bad trip if you should start to feel the experience is unbearable is pretty much enough to ensure one will not happen fortunately. I do find benzos most useful at about the fourteen hour mark where i find myself exhausted but still filled with a restless energy and insomnia, when they produce this lovely euphoric state similar to the mix of benzos and coke... I will enjoy this state for a couple hours winding down and can easily head to sleep once I desire. Im physically dependent on opiates now actually, so recently I used them much in the same way my past couple mescaline trips and it was very enjoyable as well. at least no blackouts for me :P yet
Sorry to hear about your doc and for seemingly no intelligent reason screwing around with your meds when he should have fucking known better. thats your life and mental well-being he is just toying around with and I certainly hope things get straightened out for you. It really pains me to hear that you are suffering in such ways and resorted to suicide, but personally I must say I am very glad you were not successful as I have really enjoyed our conversations and for some of the things you have helped clarify for me. This may sound weird, but I love everyone here, especially you and hope that you have been able to recover significantly. feel free to PM me if you ever want for any reason, id be happy to talk more since we suffer from many similar issues.
One thing I find extremely beneficial of lsd is that it can help remove that layer of grunge and filth from the mundane routine of repetitive reality, revealing a beautiful and inspiring world worthy of appreciation. if you use it correctly it helps show you what is truly important in life and allows you to be more grateful for the positive aspects of one's life, which can dramatically improve ones outlook and subsequent mental health as I am sure you are aware. i certainly dont think it would cause any longer time consequences that would be negative as you were worried about.
This thread got shifted down pretty far and I forgot about it, so just wanted to reply before I got stoned and forgot again. I havent looked yet for articles on MDMA but will make sure to find some references to the metabolite and post again in the next few days.
- miR
-
MDMA in low to normal doses is hardly psychedelic. In higher doses I've had a couple of hallucinations, but nothing extreme. I don't see how concern for a psychedelic experience would keep you from MDMA.
Methylone: I like it. It's MDMA-light. Which is cool, because you can act very normal (unlike MDMA, on which you can't stop showing how much you love everyone and can't stop chatting). The stimulation is very similar, so you're wide awake while you're coming down (getting the annoying feeling you have to do something, but don't know what). I've found that a small dose of Xanax helps a lot. Either I just relax on the couch or I can even fall asleep using that. The day after Methylone is nowhere near the day after MDMA, after Methylone I can just function and go to work. Methylone can make you crave for more, very similar to cocaine. Just be strong, don't end up on a binge (or do ;) ).
In some ways its indeed mdma light but i found it to last long, smooth comedown but after methylone even tho i had no problems sleeping sleep lasted only very few (2-4) hours after wich i was always very awake and looking for things to do again. Its a good drug to take on a night out when you have something to do (sports or something) the day after as you'll still feel very energetic. At least that was my experience with methylone.
In the end i had an ampule (disolved) that was around a few months and must say that one worked a little different first like after 15-30 minutes i got knocked of my feet rolling realy hard and intense i almost even fel of the chair it did not last long tho (30-45) minutes the rest of the night also wasnt like previous ones.
-
I ordered methylone off a site like a year ago. They said the quality was pure. but it is hard telling. I dont think it was that pure. I feel as tho that it had a cutting agent in it. Also I felt like I had to do alot to get an effect and even when I was high on it I just got really talkative and nothing more than that. Havent done it since that and dont really plan on it.
But I actually have some AMT on the way and im going to give it a shot!
-
I ordered methylone off a site like a year ago. They said the quality was pure. but it is hard telling. I dont think it was that pure. I feel as tho that it had a cutting agent in it. Also I felt like I had to do alot to get an effect and even when I was high on it I just got really talkative and nothing more than that. Havent done it since that and dont really plan on it.
But I actually have some AMT on the way and im going to give it a shot!
Check out the clearnet RC thread, there are some legit RC vendors who still sell (very pure) Methylone.