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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 09:40 am

Title: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 09:40 am
I start this forum page as a complement to the micro-dosing forum page
(the link to that page is: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=173822.0   - if you haven't done it yet, do pay us a visit there!)

I believe that meditation and the use of psychedelics go hand in hand,
whether you're taking 1 heroic dose of LSD in your lifetime, or using ketamine every few days, whether you snort 2C-B every month or go to the dessert to eat San Pedro on your yearly vacation - a regular practice of meditation will highly enhance your capabilities to handle the experience, to learn from it and to implement the lessons learned in your daily life.

I start this topic hoping that some of us would be willing to share their idea's and their experiences about it.
Maybe you can even recommend some specific meditation technique/practice, or special food/drinks to combine with it, or...

Maybe you could discuss some insights you've had while meditating on psychedelics, some questions that rose up in your consciousness, some images that often comes to you during your voyages, ...

In short, I hope this thread could become a place to exchange as much possible information on the combination of the practice of meditation and the practice of psychedelic exploration...
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 09:42 am
UPDATE: for more in depth information, the following has been advised as lecture...

RECOMMENDED ONLINE SOURCES and/or BOOKS:

* Raja Yoga:
- http://shardsofconsciousness.com/user/sites/shardsofconsciousness.com/files/ebooks/RajaYoga_Vivekananda.pdf

- http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/aba/aba1.htm


* guidebook on meditation while on psychedelics
- The Psychedelic Experience, by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner and Richard Alpert
- Psychedelic Prayers, by Timothy Leary
- Journey of Awakening, by Ram Dass
- Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu
- Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, by Shunry Suzuki
- all books by Alan Watts - check out the Alan Watts' Lectures Iphone App.


*Rising of Kundalini:
- http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/downloads/kundalini-the-evolutionary-energy-in-man_gopi-krishna_(89pg).pdf


* Tantra of the left hand:
- http://www.bookult.org/files/Ritual%20Magic(k)/Louis%20T.%20Culling%20-%20A%20Manual%20of%20Sex%20Magick.PDF

* Tantra of the right hand:
- http://brihaspati.net/downloads/The_Serpent_Power_Arthur_Avalon.pdf

* "Compendium" to the 2 previous books:  "Energized Enthusiasm" of Crowley
- http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib811.html


* occultism
- "The Complete Golden Dawn System" of Israel Regardie
link: http://www.labirintoermetico.com/06Numerologia_Cabala/ISRAEL_REGARDIE_COMPLETE_GOLDEN_DAWN_SYSTEM_OF_MAGIC.pdf

- My Life with the Spirits of Lon Milo DuQuette
link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/73063963/Lon-Milo-DuQuette-My-Life-With-the-Spirits-The-Adventures-of-a-Modern-Magician

- Promethea by Alan Moore (a comic higly praised by some for its content!)

- The Tree of Life, a study in Magic - Israel Regardie
http://www.golden-dawn-canada.com/pdf/israel%20regardie%20the%20tree%20of%20life%20a%20study%20in%20magic.pdf


- Initiation into Hermetics  by Franz Bardon.
http://files.vsociety.net/data/library/Section%205%20(C,%20I,%20O,%20U)/Bardon,%20Franz/The%20Holy%20Mysteries/Initiation%20into%20Hermetics.pdf

- Hands-On Chaos Magic: Reality Manipulation through the Ovayki Current; by Andrieh Vitimus (and adapted from Peter Carroll’s Liber KKK and Liber MMM. Which was based on Austin Osman Spare's glyphs of desire)

- The Divine Pymander by/of Hermes Mercurius Tristmegistus
http://www.theosophical.ca/books/DivinePymanderOfHermesMercuriusTrismegistus,The.pdf

- The Kybalion by the Three Initiates
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/kybalion.pdf


* meditation WITHOUT psychedelics:
- "wherever you go, there you are" by jon kabat-zinn




I hope this list will grow in time…
get as much info out here as you can!
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 09:44 am
reserved for future use
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: joywind on July 09, 2013, 09:55 am
I agree.

LSD and hashish are wonderful aids to meditation.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 09, 2013, 10:39 am
I had a discussion about this in private with  Great Green Arkleseizure.
IMO the best meditation method you can learn is Raja-Yoga since it is the most direct and it has the most important benefits. Concentration is the key of every practice, be it Astral Projection, Ritual Magick, Sex Magick - you name it.

In reality real meditation starts only when you achieve Dhyana, contemplation, i.e. the merging of the subject to the object of attention focus (in practice this means that if for example you concentrate on your hand, your consciousness transfers in the hand, you become the hand, the part you call "I" fully merge with the hand). The steps before this point are just the external shell of meditation (even if they get erroneously called as such by people) but they are not that.

Two clearnet sites about Raja-Yoga:
http://shardsofconsciousness.com/user/sites/shardsofconsciousness.com/files/ebooks/RajaYoga_Vivekananda.pdf
http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/aba/aba1.htm

Psychedelics already helps you on stilling your chattering by divding your thought process (many people get sometimes trapped in the so-called "loops" that it's just the incapability of the mind to fully still the thought process while it is dividing up; you try to recover the thought process so it starts again and again). If you can learn to fully still your thoughts and merge completely in the experience as in Dhyana and contemplate you will go directly to Samadhi (since a psychedelic - the stronger the better, DMT is perfect for this - already removes the ego part from the equation, a thing that usually blocks you in Dhyana to enter fully Samadhi).
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 06:43 pm
Personally I'm very happy with the results I get from a combination of active-meditation and passive-meditation, in my case it's taichi/qigong and transcendental meditation...
I find the combined effect wonderfull, especially if you (sometimes, not all the time) combine those disciplines with psychedelic substances such as LSD...

As always, I loved reading your response to this, BlackIris - thank you for it...
maybe, once, if life wants it, our paths will cross IRL...
we'll never know who we are (here), but I'm sure we'd have a blast of a time!
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 09, 2013, 07:29 pm
we'll never know who we are (here), but I'm sure we'd have a blast of a time!

I'm sure of that too. If just this world would be different...
But we can surely fight till the end until this will happen, and if it will not happen in our generation I'm sure in a not too distant future people will finally have the freedom to know each other without having to wear a mask no matter their choices, and no matter what their beliefs and ideologies are.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 09, 2013, 07:33 pm
we'll never know who we are (here), but I'm sure we'd have a blast of a time!

I'm sure of that too. If just this world would be different...
But we can surely fight till the end until this will happen, and if it will not happen in our generation I'm sure in a not too distant future people will finally have the freedom to know each other without having to wear a mask no matter their choices, and no matter what their beliefs and ideologies are.

I'd love that... especially since the guy on my mask has no hair... (but then again - he's got the dropper!).

SR will certainly be a very important factor in the dissolving of the ban on drugs, if not THE most important factor of this century... or will that be understanding and acceptance of each other?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: cricketplank on July 10, 2013, 12:02 am
Very excited to join in here with RaFaeL5 and BlackIris who are keeping me on my toes this summer (some good info coming soon guys, off to a conference this weekend) however it's past my bedtime. hope to have time to give my two cents tomorrow before i head off again.
Thanks RaFaeL5 for starting the thread
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: cricketplank on July 10, 2013, 12:05 am
what the hell i'll make my 100th post so i can thank you in karma
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 10, 2013, 12:13 am
what the hell i'll make my 100th post so i can thank you in karma

Your 100th post
and my 80th + karma...


I'll catch you tomorrow on this (or the other) thread - have a nice one!
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: SealTeam6 on July 10, 2013, 12:34 am
Great idea!  I enjoy using psychedelics alone specifically in order to get the chance to meditate on them.  I always have the most incredible experiences through this technique.  Looking forward on sharing my next journey into infinity with you all. 

Bless  :)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 10, 2013, 05:06 pm
I also practice both passive and active meditation. Sadly I can't really say too much about the active meditation I practice, as I will be giving away too much information about myself on this public forum  :'( . However, I will say that I find it very beneficial. I am able to achieve the feeling athletes describe as "being in the zone" with active meditation. Its a feeling that you are just a medium conducting the vibrations (and will) of the cosmos, and it brings me a sense of one-ness with the world. I am able to shed my notition of being an individual, and instead, I can enjoy and appreciate being a part of something much bigger that myself.

I find that psychedelics and meditation go hand in hand. They are great tools with which to unravel the mysteries of the universe. However, its really important to do the work (i.e. meditation) on the path to enlightenment. Just taking drugs and not doing the work is a shortcut, and it wont bring you true enlightenment. But if you are putting in the work, I think psychedelics can offer many benefits on this amazing journey.

Peace and love, my psychedelic adventurers!
;D
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: chil on July 10, 2013, 05:19 pm
I practice Vipassana Meditation and I've had the most profound session on LSD once.

However, meditating on drugs is cheating as the aim of meditation is to be able to calm the mind with the only help of your breathing and focus. Sure you can get far out there while meditating on LSD but it's not really gonna bring you to enlightenment imo.



Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: chil on July 10, 2013, 05:22 pm
while meditating on ketamine,

how was it compared to meditating on  LSD or other psychs ?

was: "why would there be no corners in infinity?"

why would infinity need corners ?   :)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 11, 2013, 10:16 am
while meditating on ketamine,

how was it compared to meditating on  LSD or other psychs ?

was: "why would there be no corners in infinity?"

why would infinity need corners ?   :)

First, the question is not "why would infinity need corners?", but "why would there be no corners in infinity?"... - I think it's all about representations. We can "grasp" the meaning of infinity when we think about a line that has no beginning and no ending, or when we think about a sun radiating in all directions into eternity, but those representations don't allow any "corners" in it, our mind simply can't grasp a definition of infinity that would include corners... but why would there be no corners in infinity?

Then, ketamine is quite unique (I found for myself) when meditating. First of all, it's short lasting (max 40 minutes compared to 8h for LSD). Secondly it has a very specific "signature" to the trip. It's hard to describe the difference... I'd say try it (once) and see for yourself, but maybe you don't wish to try this product - in that case you might want to read the book by D.M. Turner where he describes his experiences with ketamine. He doesn't specifically use it to meditate on it, but it'll give you a good idea of the possibilities...
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 11, 2013, 11:50 am
I had a discussion about this in private with  Great Green Arkleseizure.
IMO the best meditation method you can learn is Raja-Yoga since it is the most direct and it has the most important benefits. Concentration is the key of every practice, be it Astral Projection, Ritual Magick, Sex Magick - you name it.

In reality real meditation starts only when you achieve Dhyana, contemplation, i.e. the merging of the subject to the object of attention focus (in practice this means that if for example you concentrate on your hand, your consciousness transfers in the hand, you become the hand, the part you call "I" fully merge with the hand). The steps before this point are just the external shell of meditation (even if they get erroneously called as such by people) but they are not that.

Two clearnet sites about Raja-Yoga:
http://shardsofconsciousness.com/user/sites/shardsofconsciousness.com/files/ebooks/RajaYoga_Vivekananda.pdf
http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/aba/aba1.htm

Psychedelics already helps you on stilling your chattering by divding your thought process (many people get sometimes trapped in the so-called "loops" that it's just the incapability of the mind to fully still the thought process while it is dividing up; you try to recover the thought process so it starts again and again). If you can learn to fully still your thoughts and merge completely in the experience as in Dhyana and contemplate you will go directly to Samadhi (since a psychedelic - the stronger the better, DMT is perfect for this - already removes the ego part from the equation, a thing that usually blocks you in Dhyana to enter fully Samadhi).

I gave a little of time to people to read the first part of this message and look at those two links. Now for the second part, and especially what to do during a psychedelic trip with that knowledge.

The only thing you must do is: contemplate what's happening (the visuals in closed eyes) and stop the mind chattering (you can help yourself with a mantra at the beginning). Meditate (i.e. do Dhyana) on the visuals and nothing else. If you can do it for only about 30 seconds (seems little isn't it? In reality 30 seconds of COMPLETE silence is a lot of time, even when you think your mind is in silence in reality there is activity behind, but by and by it will really completely stop for about a minute or so, giving you the possibility - if you know how to do it - to firestart the Samadhi process) without flattering something quite strong will happen: the Kundalini will start to raise. If you are not prepared it can be quite a shock. Certain psychedelics (as DMT) can give symptoms of Kundalini awakening on their own (tingling sensations, jerks movements, difficulty reading or concentrating, pressure on the "third eye" etc. etc.).

Kundalini attach to silence. If silence is not found and the Kundalini tries to rise it will block creating a sort of short-circuit in the center it is blocked (and this can cause various symptoms). By and by the use of a psychedelic alone (either without doing nothing in particular) or for a particular circumstance can cause the Kundalini to try to raise and if you aren't prepared to what it will happen you can either have a lot of trouble.

For a book on the experience of rising Kundalini (so that all people can be prepared on what it feels like: it is a wonderful experience but it still has to be taken with respect) I recommend this book of Gopi Khrisna that's one of the best:
http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/downloads/kundalini-the-evolutionary-energy-in-man_gopi-krishna_(89pg).pdf

Psychedelics are probably the easiest way to awaken and raise the Kundalini, but just for this they are to be used with respect. It has happened to everybody I think the usual bad crisis after a strong use of a psychedelic and sometimes that crisis can be quite drastic as to make you quit their uses altogether (since naturally once put in motion that rise will keep coming again at the next occasion, either in sober life if the circumstance is correct). That's because of the blockade I was talking about. As with all powerful tools, they require knowledge to not become dangerous.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: connoisseur on July 11, 2013, 04:03 pm
(since a psychedelic - the stronger the better, DMT is perfect for this - already removes the ego part from the equation, a thing that usually blocks you in Dhyana to enter fully Samadhi).
Do you have 5-Meo-DMT experience?
I reached full bliss on DMT recently.
I don't want to rush anything with these powdered shortcuts.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 11, 2013, 04:17 pm
Do you have 5-Meo-DMT experience?

Yes, but I prefer N-N-DMT because it is more visual and for my personal nature it is easier to merge with a visual/auditory stimuli than a bodily one (as for example merging with a point in the forehead or the breath or similar things), but naturally different people have different preferences/abilities.

It is also possible (and either easier) to merge with an emotion, also if this path is a little more dangerous because emotions are still parts of the ego. Sadly you see a lot of "gurus" today that fall just on this trap, the stronger one being the "trap of love": an emotion takes precedence over any other and this is duality. They think they have just gone above the ego but in reality they just outgrow a part above the rest, and since in their moral view that part is "higher" than the others they think they are doing a good thing, but nothing is "higher" than any other thing, and if you think so you are still in the terms of the ego. Love as an emotion is one of the easiest (and worst to remove) traps for advancement after a certain point. Either bliss becomes a trap after a while, in the same exact way.

For this in Raja-Yoga a perfectly banal and neutral object is used for meditation, so that there's no way you can tie emotions/feelings with it. Naturally it's much easier to merge with an object that gives you a feeling (as the image of a God, or Guru etc.) but you risk on falling on those sort of traps. I personally like DMT images because I can go beyond the emotional level with them, being them so "other-wordly" and not easily tied to things I can associate my ego with.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: connoisseur on July 11, 2013, 04:58 pm
This was an answer to a question I did not ask. ???
Will have to reread after a night's sleep.

2nd try: How would you compare/relate DMT with 5-Meo-DMT? :-\
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 11, 2013, 05:30 pm
This was an answer to a question I did not ask. ???
Will have to reread after a night's sleep.

2nd try: How would you compare/relate DMT with 5-Meo-DMT? :-\

You asked: "Do you have 5-Meo-DMT experience?" to which I replied "yes, but I prefer N-N-DMT because it is more visual" so I did reply perfectly to what you asked (and the follow up had to do also with it, since 5-Meo-DMT is more bodily focused).

NOW you ask how they compare, and still the answer I already given above fits perfectly also in this case (they are akin, but N-N-DMT is more visual and 5-Meo more tied to the body).

To be even more specific, 5-Meo-DMT has much more body load, much less visuals (almost nil) but a more powerful ego-death experience at much lower doses, typically. 5-Meo-DMT is also much more variable in effect than N-N-DMT is from person to person: some people with just 2mg will feel very very strong effects (as if taking an high dose), while others have to use even 10 times that dose (a very high one) to have normal effects.

Is this the answer you sought for or we have to do another tentative at extrapolating what you really want?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 11, 2013, 06:29 pm
However, meditating on drugs is cheating as the aim of meditation is to be able to calm the mind with the only help of your breathing and focus. Sure you can get far out there while meditating on LSD but it's not really gonna bring you to enlightenment imo.

Cheating on what? "Drugs" have been used in aid to meditation from time immemorial (probably at beginning there was no meditation without a catalyst and even much probably meditation was discovered from a catalyst - just like many forms of shamanism). The writers of the Vedas (from which all the Yoga scriptures comes) used Soma (that was clearly a psychedelic), do you know it, right?

All sadhus did employ and employ hemp and/or hash (both psychedelics if used in a certain way) as a catalyst. Buddha is figured standing below a Brugmansia tree in many of the tantra representations. Krishna representations also are full of psychedelics references. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu used psychedelics (also if which type is not known fully, there are different theories) to reach his illumination and keep up the bhakti, and he is considered one of the most influential reincarnations of Krishna nowadays.

There's no "cheating" for what it concerns meditation, and psychedelics will bring you exactly where a meditation without willl bring you (and even farther). The only real problem of psychedelics is just that because they are so immensely powerful and speedy when used correctly, when instead they are used incorrectly they can bring you to full destruction in the same speedy and immensely powerful way (but the same can be said of many other very powerful means, as having a teacher rise the Kundalini for you - one of the speediest but even most dangerous ways to do it; would you consider that "cheating" also? C'mon, this is not a race or challenge, there is no first or last place, no screening for doping or rules during the performance, the only thing that matters is arriving there).

I know that there are some new-age school that insist that psychedelics are not natural and/or cheating, but new-age is almost always nonsense; the majority of these new-age gurus have absolutely no knowledge of what the hell they are talking about. This is just another of the usual morality traps I was talking about, and the sad part is that many people like to use these things as their banners, so as to pretend they are superior in some way to others just for a totally arbitrary reasons. Oh well... everybody has the teacher s/he deserves, isn't it?

Please, don't fall yourself too on this morality trap, there is no "higher" road to follow, and no "holier" way to walk the walk. If you can use something to your benefit then use it! Denying yourself the benefit of something just for some sort of moral standard is just stupidity.

This would be like learning to walk in the water to cross a river because you want to reach a group of beautiful girls on the other side perfectly dry, while others can do so just swimming easily. What a great consolation will it be the fact that you have now reached the other end without being wet now that you are so old that you cannot enjoy the girls anymore while all the others in the meantime did, isn't it?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 11, 2013, 10:02 pm
So,
there's been a discussion aobut "kundalini" and I saw some paragraphs warning about how kundalini (when awakened during meditation while on influence of psychedelics) can be dangerous/harmful...
could you elaborate on this?
I've never heard of this?
I didn't think it was possible to awaken your kundalini (when you do it YOURself) and still be in danger/in harm because of it. Off course, when you have other people doing it for you it seems obvious to me that there's danger/possible harm in that - but also when you do it yourself?
...?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 12, 2013, 08:32 am
I didn't think it was possible to awaken your kundalini (when you do it YOURself) and still be in danger/in harm because of it. Off course, when you have other people doing it for you it seems obvious to me that there's danger/possible harm in that - but also when you do it yourself?
...?

There's the danger of a blockade. Consider a flow of water rushing in a canal. If the canal was never cleaned and taken care of it will much probably contain debris. Now what it will happen if debris is enough for the flow to block? Water will overflow.

The same can happen with Kundalini and it's actually much more common than you think. One of the most common symptoms (because it's usually the first one and many will simply block there) of overflowing is extreme sexual urge. There are people that literally become sex addicted. That's a sign of Kundalini blocking at the gate of the second chakra.

Sadly there are many "teachers" that teach their students the techniques to raise the Kundalini without anything else. This is comparable to going to church 1 day a week and pretend you will become an holy man just for this; it is much more probable you will become a self-aggrandized moralist. It's not only the moment of meditation that matters, it is also what you do during you "normal" day to day life. You have to clean your personality and adapt the changes the awakening brings to your life by and by. Doing the exercises to awake Kundalini and then nothing else it is akin to using a psychedelic thinking this last will do everything by itself. It doesn't work like this and it's immensely dangerous to approach the awakening in this way. You have to do work also when you are outside the experience of the psychedelic to incorporate what you learned there, and so it is for every other form of meditation.

During Kundalini awakement fears, suppressed emotions, parts of your personality you didn't know existed etc. and even seemingly pure physical effects (that have to do with the inner body but will change physical parameters too) will flood your consciousness, especially with a psychedelic used as a catalyst (since it is a very powerful method). While it is very important to annihilate the ego, it is in the same way important to cleanse and reconstruct the same when it's there, integrating to it the knowledge you received in those moments. There will be moments that are the so-called the "Dark Night of the Soul" that everybody will pass through and that are supremely important on the process. The more your ego is strong (and beware: it is important to have a strong ego as it is to annihilate it, also if many think the contrary) the more these moments will be hard and powerful, but the more you will be able to integrate them if all goes correctly (if your ego is weak and not cleansed properly you will become much probably tied to only one part of it in contrast to all the rest, and this is not good) and to remain balanced during all the process.

There are usually four types of these "die-offs" that can arise cyclically during awakening:

- A terror event of intense energy pouring up the body similar to a euphoric inner-conjunction, but in this case it will be a dysphoric inner-conjunction (a sort of polar-flip). There will be experience of great fear with no apparent cause. This "negative" inner-conjunction mostly occurs during one's first awakening or new awakening cycles, as the  spontaneous bliss awakening in a "neophyte-body" that is unfamiliar with such intensity of consciousness and energy can create a polar-flip.

- Autonomic shock that occurs immediately after mystic ecstasy. That is the contraction and toxic overload after a significant opening to the extreme bliss of an euphoric inner-conjunction event.

- Breakdown of the former structures through oxidation. This is usually experienced almost as a pure bodily malady, as for example not being able to wake-up from bed from days straight for the weakness or similar things.

-  Lastly there is the exhaustion phase of the overall awakening cycle where the body's resources of neurotransmitters, hormones, and nutrients have been used up in the climb to the heights of the awakening peak. During exhaustion depression arises, yet there is also permanent bliss giving the sense of being dissociated from the depression.

They are unavoidable, as the "living death" must occur for resurrection of the "spiritual" body-mind. All must enter the Dark Night, and possibly many times during the cyclical process of awakening.  As it is said: "He who is not twice born will not ascend to the Kingdom of Heaven" (oh, well, the bible is full of Kundalini references; the Book of Job, for example, is a metaphoric representation of the arise, in pure moral/intellectual terms). So it all depends on how you interact with these states. If you are not doing work outside of the single process these things can easily break you. The awakening of Kundalini is a process that integrates every aspect of an individual, it is not just a thing that you can fire and then forget about it.


Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 12, 2013, 09:52 pm
wow,
thank you BlackIris for this interesting and detailed answer...
Lots of what you write seems familiar but, as often, I didn't think that much about the proces - it's more like I found my way in it by "going with the flow" and never trying to force any change but by always accepting the possibility of changing, by keeping enough room for the change...

The combination of psychedelics and meditation DO change you and it changed lots of stuff in my life, but then again those chooses that I made would probably also have been made without the psychedelics - it's all "flowing" from who I am and from where I want to go. I do believe psychedelics sped up some of the changes...

How about the practice of tantra?
As easy as I find it to meditate on psychedelics, that hard it is to practice tantra while under influence...
strange... or is there a very good explanation for this also?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 13, 2013, 09:30 am
How about the practice of tantra?
As easy as I find it to meditate on psychedelics, that hard it is to practice tantra while under influence...
strange... or is there a very good explanation for this also?

Do you intend with Tantra the one of the left hand (i.e. sex yoga)?
Because the concentration and energy required in that circumstance already take all your consciousness for you to control well; it's very difficult to add other parameters to it, especially at beginning.
Moreover many psychedelics change the sexual energies in well defined ways so that it's very difficult to keep track of what's happening if you are not very expert in those subtle changes.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 15, 2013, 08:13 am
How about the practice of tantra?
As easy as I find it to meditate on psychedelics, that hard it is to practice tantra while under influence...
strange... or is there a very good explanation for this also?

Do you intend with Tantra the one of the left hand (i.e. sex yoga)?
Because the concentration and energy required in that circumstance already take all your consciousness for you to control well; it's very difficult to add other parameters to it, especially at beginning.
Moreover many psychedelics change the sexual energies in well defined ways so that it's very difficult to keep track of what's happening if you are not very expert in those subtle changes.

I guess I'm speaking about the one in the left hand (I had no idea there were 2 hands in Tantra).
We've been very succesfull in this practice in have been practicing it for over a year now.
I spoke about it with my GF and she says that all the sex we have when on psychedelics is tantric, so maybe I'm just trying too hard... or maybe I just feel different about it (I'll check it again on the next occasion).

If I could find myself a good guru/teacher/guide I'd love to hear more about all these practices and learn...but saddly my guru died 7 months ago (I still feel the void)...

Would you mind to write some more about the "left hand" and the "right hand"? (here or in PM - as you wish)...

Cheers and +1 for all your answers,
much appreciated!
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 15, 2013, 11:30 am
Would you mind to write some more about the "left hand" and the "right hand"? (here or in PM - as you wish)...

Both have to do with the sexual energies of the body and how to reach "enlightenment" with those, but the Tantra of the right hand works with those energies indirectly without physical stimulation of the sexual organs (with visualizations, mudras etc.), while the Tantra of the left hand uses physical intercourse as a way to do the same.

A good book on Tantra of the left hand is this:
http://www.bookult.org/files/Ritual%20Magic(k)/Louis%20T.%20Culling%20-%20A%20Manual%20of%20Sex%20Magick.PDF

While a very good book on Tantra of the right hand is:
http://brihaspati.net/downloads/The_Serpent_Power_Arthur_Avalon.pdf

The first book has more of a "western" approach to it, but it is a good book because it explains various techniques ranging from karezza to retention of semen to the use of it in a magical way.

As a compendium to those two links I will also give you to read "Energized Enthusiasm" of Crowley, where he explains what can be achieved with Tantra/Sexual Magick and he gives also some little hints on the practice:
http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib811.html
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 15, 2013, 01:30 pm
Thank you BI,
I'll look them up asap...

Right now I have lots of fun reading "the psychedelic experience" (by Learry and co.).
I'm not very far in the book yet, but it seems there might be some very useful passages in it, especially for meditating while on psychedelics...

Also,
is Raja Yoga similar to Transcendental Meditation.
After reading a description of it online it seemed to me that both techniques are quite similar (except maybe that Transcendental Meditation can seem to be kind of a sect where Raja Yoga seems to be an open movement within the Yoga tradition).
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: aussiepp on July 15, 2013, 02:21 pm
This has been an interesting read for me. Sub'n  8)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 15, 2013, 02:33 pm
Also,
is Raja Yoga similar to Transcendental Meditation.

No.
Trascendental Meditation is basically Mantra-Yoga, that, while working, it is one of the slowest paths of all. Mantra is usually used as a "last resort", so to speak; meaning: now you are here, you have tried all the rest and you didn't have the will/patience/skill or whatever else to make it work, so use a Mantra and you will do it... in time. The use of a Mantra (i.e. repeating a sentence over and over in your mind) works for silencing the mind, but it will take years of constant dedication to bring you fully there (the motive of why it is so it is because it is a sort of indirect method; it brings you to silence not directly but indirectly, with the use of a trick), it is one of the most slow paths, but just for this it's also one of the easiest; literally everybody can do it, no matter what (and in fact if you read the TM books etc. you can see how that's a method developed for absolute beginners; then "developed" to say an imbecility because Mantra Yoga exists from beginning - it's one of the classic paths of yoga - they just slapped a new name on top of it for marketing).

Raja-Yoga is instead the most direct path there is in Yoga, but just for this it can be difficult. It takes effort. Btw even Raja-Yoga has in itself a component of Mantra-Yoga, but it is only used at beginning when you learn pranayama to count the breaths. If you apply with Raja-Yoga you can reach Dhyana in about six months. With Mantra Yoga it will take you to reach that same state at least 5 years if you are lucky.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 15, 2013, 09:40 pm
Well,

in this case, do you have books/websites that you'd recommend regarding Raja Yoga?
(especially for combining with psychedelic practice?).
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: aussiepp on July 16, 2013, 04:00 am
Also,
is Raja Yoga similar to Transcendental Meditation.

No.
Trascendental Meditation is basically Mantra-Yoga, that, while working, it is one of the slowest paths of all. Mantra is usually used as a "last resort", so to speak; meaning: now you are here, you have tried all the rest and you didn't have the will/patience/skill or whatever else to make it work, so use a Mantra and you will do it... in time. The use of a Mantra (i.e. repeating a sentence over and over in your mind) works for silencing the mind, but it will take years of constant dedication to bring you fully there (the motive of why it is so it is because it is a sort of indirect method; it brings you to silence not directly but indirectly, with the use of a trick), it is one of the most slow paths, but just for this it's also one of the easiest; literally everybody can do it, no matter what (and in fact if you read the TM books etc. you can see how that's a method developed for absolute beginners; then "developed" to say an imbecility because Mantra Yoga exists from beginning - it's one of the classic paths of yoga - they just slapped a new name on top of it for marketing).

Raja-Yoga is instead the most direct path there is in Yoga, but just for this it can be difficult. It takes effort. Btw even Raja-Yoga has in itself a component of Mantra-Yoga, but it is only used at beginning when you learn pranayama to count the breaths. If you apply with Raja-Yoga you can reach Dhyana in about six months. With Mantra Yoga it will take you to reach that same state at least 5 years if you are lucky.

Hey mate, how long have you been practicing yoga/meditation?
I've been meditating on and off for the past couple of years. I never got too deep in it but now I'm more than interested.
I went on an Ashram a few years ago and really enjoyed it. My classes revolved around Mantra-Yoga as I was (and still am) a beginner. I think I may attend another one this year or next. :)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 16, 2013, 09:07 am
Well,

in this case, do you have books/websites that you'd recommend regarding Raja Yoga?
(especially for combining with psychedelic practice?).

I posted them above (in my very first post on the thread), RaFaeL5; both the book of Vivekananda and the article by Crowley are the most in-depth explanations on how to work with Raja-Yoga. You need nothing else.
In reality Raja-Yoga is very very simple to explain. There's not much to write about it. It's all about practice.

As for combination with psychedelics, once you have read those two links you will understand what you have to do while there. Raja-Yoga is simply concentration (Dharana) on an object and the object can be visualized, physically existing or arising in your consciousness (as "hallucinations" from psychedelics). The trick is just to merge with the object (so in the case of DMT, for example, merging with the visuals by completely silencing the mind). I tried to explain about this also in a post above.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 16, 2013, 09:09 am
Hey mate, how long have you been practicing yoga/meditation?

I started practicing magick and occultism, then passed to yoga (because concentration is the key of everything) and then returned to magick later (because I prefer it), but I still practice yoga.
How much time am I in these things? About 25 years. I also taught many people in an order I was in some years ago.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 16, 2013, 01:22 pm
Excuse me if I asked questions that were already answered,
I'll go back to your previous posts and check the links...

So, I just did that and I took the opportunity to make a list of the books/sites that were recommended in the 2nd post of this forum page.
Here's the link to that list: 
http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=181927.msg1320894#msg1320894

If someone would like to recommend other books/sources about the topics of meditation (and the many facets of it), just shoot and I'll add it to the second post asap...
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 16, 2013, 02:15 pm
Excuse me if I asked questions that were already answered,

No need to excuse yourself. If there was a need of more books/articles on the subject I would have gladly gave you more, but Raja-Yoga has not very much to explain, since the practice is very very simple. The difficult part is executing it ;)

Moreover I think that, while knowledge and information at beginning is very good and either necessary, if brought to extremes it can bring to a very peculiar danger. There are many people that become so-called "armchair magicians": they read and read about everything imaginable, they read every new book on a subject they already know to memory etc. etc. but they never practice nothing; they never started practicing something and if they did, they immediately cease for reading something new. The accumulation of information becomes as a sort of excuse to do nothing: "oh, but I need to know everything about the subject before I start it" they tell to themselves, no matter how much they can study a subject.

Akin to this are people that jump from one practice to another, always trying something new and never coming to anything. Both are fear reflexes; the ego can block your progress in many different ways.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 17, 2013, 04:05 pm
yep,

reminds me of some people I know that I call "therapy-hoppers",
they go from family-therapy to dream-therapy, to meditation to yoga to tai-chi and back to another couse in self-deploiment... but never do they ever stuck long enough to learn something about themselves...
probably even the opposite.

I do share your opinion and if, after reading the proposed works, I have more questions I will contact you wihtout any doubt ;-)

By the way,
I hope I'll be able to find those books IRL, I hate to read books on my pc...
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 17, 2013, 04:52 pm
Yes, you can find both in paperback editions pretty easily.

The "article" of Crowley is the first part of his book "Magick", a very popular one (probably one of the most popular magical books).

Since we are here talking about magick now I also advice everybody interested in it to buy or download (as an ebook) "The Complete Golden Dawn System" of Israel Regardie, that's probably one of the most complete books about it ever written. You can find everything in there from Astral Travel, Enochian calls, Rituals, Initiations and so on and so forth.

Literally a must have if one is interested in occultism.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 17, 2013, 08:23 pm
thx - I just added this last one to the list in the 2nd post of this thread...

that should be enough lecture for my summer :-)

Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BoxofShapes on July 18, 2013, 12:29 am
Killer thread guys.  Bookmarking this one.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: joolz on July 18, 2013, 01:37 am
meditation is better  ;)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: mrxempire on July 18, 2013, 06:57 am
i'm not a spiritual person, but i hear meditation makes your trip so much cooler. I might try it next time I take some L. What do I do, just sit down crosslegged and close my eyes?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BoxofShapes on July 18, 2013, 03:41 pm
Btw, a good link to the ebook of "The Complete Golden Dawn System" is this.....

Man.  My old book has been completely destroyed.  Thank you so much for this.  I missed having this book around.

I'll have to give the other book you listed a try as well. 

I'm still reading stuff from this thread but I thought I would throw out there, if you do get serious about reading things about the hermetic order of the golden dawn, or really anything related to this nature, pick up a copy of Promethea by Alan Moore. 

I know its a comic, but this series did wonders for me to help me understand the above mentioned and plenty else. 
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 19, 2013, 10:00 am
done, thank you both...
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on July 19, 2013, 11:11 am
As a compendium to the complete golden dawn system there's a book of the same author that it's also a must have (sorry to not have mentioned before, it just escaped my mind atm).

The Tree of Life, a study in Magic - Israel Regardie
http://www.globalgrey.co.uk/Books/Qabalah/Tree-Of-Life-A-Study-In-Magic.pdf

In this book Regardie explains himself many of the topics in the book "The Complete Golden Dawn System". This last has everything concerning hermetic magick but it is a little low on explanations. "The Tree of Life" explains many of the topics that are in that book with examples etc. There are some chapters that are considered pearls in the hermetic tradition.

Another encyclopedic book and must have is: Initiation into Hermetics  by Franz Bardon.
http://files.vsociety.net/data/library/Section%205%20(C,%20I,%20O,%20U)/Bardon,%20Franz/The%20Holy%20Mysteries/Initiation%20into%20Hermetics.pdf

This one is a mammoth and it is a full course to be done in steps on the practice of magic, from the basics to the particulars. It is probably the most complete book about full "teaching", but just for this it is very very challenging (I don't think anybody alive can complete all those steps in the exact way explained, but still they give a good source on which to form your personal way of approaching the teaching). Franz Bardon is also sometimes too dogmatic upon the approach (i.e. as in "you must do this in this way and this way only") but still as I said this one book (along the complete system of the golden dawn) is a must have for what it concern occultism.

I didn't mention these books before because this thread was more about meditation, but since anyway there's already a link to occultism I think it's opportune to list also these ones. There are many others that maybe I will post in the future, but for now I think this is a good reference for books to read to begin knowing more about those topics.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: kissthemoon on July 20, 2013, 11:30 pm
I experimented with lsd and meditation (focus on following the breath), but wasn't a success, too much thought activity that absorbed my focus, also open and closed eye visuals are too distracting.

Not sure if it can be called meditation, but staying with the feeling 'I am' is really effective for me while on lsd. Have been experimenting with this for the last 5 trips or so. It is described as 'staying with the 'I am'' by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and Mooji, I think this practice is the same as 'staying in the now', as described by Eckhart Tolle.

Last time I experienced satori while exercising this staying with the 'I am', that together with a question from Mooji that he asks a lot in his satsangs; 'Who is even perceiving the perceiver?'. This was an immense impressive experience, the implications of this realization are enormous, shook my world for quite a bit. Too bad that the 'seeing' of realizations like these don't stay after coming down.

Very interesting and informative thread guys! Will follow this one.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on July 22, 2013, 12:39 pm
I adapted the list of books in the second post - thank you BI.

Also, regarding the meditation while on acid,
I believe we're missing out on 1 book that's amazingly good for it:
by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner and Richard Alper("Ram Dass"): the Psychedelic Experience, a manual based on the tibetan book of the dead...

Next time I'll add this one to the second post too...
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: princeblack49 on July 25, 2013, 05:53 am
great topic. following now :)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: Twelve_Pickles on August 12, 2013, 01:07 pm
Awesome thread.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: tuna on August 12, 2013, 02:49 pm
MXE is drug that taught me how to meditate. It is very easy to it while on it..I can just even walk and meditate, nothing seems to disturb. Meditation home in dark brought very unusual feeling of some kind of energy starting to go through me, vibration, vision distortion..
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on August 13, 2013, 09:36 am
@BlackIris: I was wondering, how could you "unblock" blockages in the kundalini energy (at the second chakra) in case it got blocked while tripping? Is there an "easy" way to do this yourself, or only complicated techniques/help from others can dissolve the blockages?

Also, when writing about Raja yoga you said that the technique is based on focusing your thoughts on (inanimate) objects... I wander, is this kind of the same as "making contact whit the spirit", merging with, assimilaiting with (as would happen in sjamanism?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BlackIris on August 13, 2013, 06:35 pm
@BlackIris: I was wondering, how could you "unblock" blockages in the kundalini energy (at the second chakra) in case it got blocked while tripping? Is there an "easy" way to do this yourself, or only complicated techniques/help from others can dissolve the blockages?

Blockages in the gates of the so-called "chakras" are all having to do with the individual himself, so only you can really go beyond them (others can naturally help you on evidencing you the problem, but it is always a matter of yourself to pass it, nobody can do it for you).

Depending on the chakra the blockade has a particular nature (as for example psychological, philosophical or emotional etc. etc.). To pass a block is a matter of understanding what the cause is and correct the problem. For example, as I said, the blockade in the second chakra is usually experienced as an immense sexual urge. This is, in many cases (the majority) a matter of a sick rapport with your own sexuality that doesn't permit the energy to flow freely or not being capable to refrain from physical stimulation.

Also, when writing about Raja yoga you said that the technique is based on focusing your thoughts on (inanimate) objects... I wander, is this kind of the same as "making contact whit the spirit", merging with, assimilaiting with (as would happen in sjamanism?

The merging can happen with whatever "object" no matter its nature and, actually, depending on it you will have (very) different results. So, yes, one way it can be used  is just to establish a link with a spirit (as done in Shamanism or Magick; there are also other ways to do it - as it's usually always the case - but this is probably the most direct, albeit a little more complicate than others).

In that particular text a simple object is used but you can use in your practice whatever you like and you feel more comfortable with as a focus. For example you can use a part of your physical body as a target for your concentration (as the forehead), or you can either use a sound if you prefer it. I usually suggest to start with a moving object (as for example a red triangle in 3D that rotates, enlarges, moves etc.) because it is much easier, especially at beginning. The mind is more naturally attracted by variation and complexity and so concentrating and keeping concentration on a moving object is much easier (however you have to be certain that the movement and change is voluntary; if it isn't then it's a break as usual) than doing the same with an immobile and unchanging object.

Once you are able to reach Dhyana (contemplation) with something you can do it with whatever other thing and the result varies depending on the object you merge with. If for example you merge with your hand what you call "you" becomes your hand, if you merge with a spirit then you link with it and it becomes what it is called an "ally".
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: Bluto on August 14, 2013, 01:35 am
Yes, you can find both in paperback editions pretty easily.

Literally a must have if one is interested in occultism.

You missed another "must have":

Hands-On Chaos Magic: Reality Manipulation through the Ovayki Current
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on August 14, 2013, 08:39 am
Yes, you can find both in paperback editions pretty easily.

Literally a must have if one is interested in occultism.

You missed another "must have":

Hands-On Chaos Magic: Reality Manipulation through the Ovayki Current

For the list in the beginning of this thread, would you like to detail a bit more about the book (where should it fill in, who's the author, ...)?
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: Bluto on August 14, 2013, 05:06 pm
In short it's by Andrieh Vitimus and adapted from Peter Carroll’s Liber KKK and Liber MMM. Which was based on Austin Osman Spare's glyphs of desire -which I meant to reference instead.

Spare's work is minimally -trippy. But one can create their own ceremonial sigils and that is what this (Vitmus') book is about.

There's a couple things. Vitimus encourages participants to test results which is anathema for many other practitioners of magick. He also provides exercises that will help people discover their own magical style.

Finally, for all the skeptics out there -what's the worst that can happen? You'll have a cool ass book filled with neat looking symbols for contemplation.


Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on August 15, 2013, 08:57 pm
In short it's by Andrieh Vitimus and adapted from Peter Carroll’s Liber KKK and Liber MMM. Which was based on Austin Osman Spare's glyphs of desire -which I meant to reference instead.

Spare's work is minimally -trippy. But one can create their own ceremonial sigils and that is what this (Vitmus') book is about.

There's a couple things. Vitimus encourages participants to test results which is anathema for many other practitioners of magick. He also provides exercises that will help people discover their own magical style.

Finally, for all the skeptics out there -what's the worst that can happen? You'll have a cool ass book filled with neat looking symbols for contemplation.

Thx 4 the info - it's been added to the list!
-> http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=181927.msg1320894#msg1320894
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: princeblack49 on August 21, 2013, 11:44 pm
@BlackIris: I was wondering, how could you "unblock" blockages in the kundalini energy (at the second chakra) in case it got blocked while tripping? Is there an "easy" way to do this yourself, or only complicated techniques/help from others can dissolve the blockages?

Blockages in the gates of the so-called "chakras" are all having to do with the individual himself, so only you can really go beyond them (others can naturally help you on evidencing you the problem, but it is always a matter of yourself to pass it, nobody can do it for you).

Depending on the chakra the blockade has a particular nature (as for example psychological, philosophical or emotional etc. etc.). To pass a block is a matter of understanding what the cause is and correct the problem. For example, as I said, the blockade in the second chakra is usually experienced as an immense sexual urge. This is, in many cases (the majority) a matter of a sick rapport with your own sexuality that doesn't permit the energy to flow freely or not being capable to refrain from physical stimulation.

I once did a simple breath meditation on 4HO MET and it was amazing. The colors and light intensified and I could feel intense energy in the base of my spine. Soon though I became entangled in sexual thoughts and though the pleasure was intense the fantasy took me away from the thoughtless state of being pure light. Later I got up and smoked a small amount of cannabis and soon after I had a "whiteout" fell and bashed my head. I awoke to my wife crying over me. I strongly feel that I had this reaction from blocked kundalini after reading this thread. It frightened me quite a bit but I have never reacted this way before or since.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on August 22, 2013, 07:44 am
@BlackIris: I was wondering, how could you "unblock" blockages in the kundalini energy (at the second chakra) in case it got blocked while tripping? Is there an "easy" way to do this yourself, or only complicated techniques/help from others can dissolve the blockages?

Blockages in the gates of the so-called "chakras" are all having to do with the individual himself, so only you can really go beyond them (others can naturally help you on evidencing you the problem, but it is always a matter of yourself to pass it, nobody can do it for you).

Depending on the chakra the blockade has a particular nature (as for example psychological, philosophical or emotional etc. etc.). To pass a block is a matter of understanding what the cause is and correct the problem. For example, as I said, the blockade in the second chakra is usually experienced as an immense sexual urge. This is, in many cases (the majority) a matter of a sick rapport with your own sexuality that doesn't permit the energy to flow freely or not being capable to refrain from physical stimulation.

I once did a simple breath meditation on 4HO MET and it was amazing. The colors and light intensified and I could feel intense energy in the base of my spine. Soon though I became entangled in sexual thoughts and though the pleasure was intense the fantasy took me away from the thoughtless state of being pure light. Later I got up and smoked a small amount of cannabis and soon after I had a "whiteout" fell and bashed my head. I awoke to my wife crying over me. I strongly feel that I had this reaction from blocked kundalini after reading this thread. It frightened me quite a bit but I have never reacted this way before or since.

Wow,
that sounds intense (in not such a nice way)...
I wonder what BI will say about this experience.
Thanks for sharing it, PrinceBlack
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: adamiz on August 23, 2013, 02:28 am
Subbing to a great thread.
Also have a lot of questions that I will try to gather those days and ask you guys.

Please continue keeping us educated! Amazing info people!!

All the best,

Adamiz
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: sitdown on August 23, 2013, 05:22 am
Very good idea for thread

Some more books

Ram Dass  - Journey of Awakening
Timothy Leary - Psychedelic Prayers
Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching
Shunry Suzuki - Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind
Alan Watts - everything - check out the Alan Watts' Lectures iphone App.

Ashtanga, like other types of hatha, yoga is very effective with or without psychedelics (it has an undeserved reputation for being 'unspiritual' because of it fashionability with yuppies and celebrities a few years ago). You need to be in good shape to do it though and it isn't really for hatha yoga beginners. But the aims of raja yoga are much easier for many people to achieve once the body has been put into the right kind of state.

For me psychedelics are quite easy to integrate into a regular practice, but like most people who've ever done this, I ended up finding that the practice became more important than the psychedelics...LSD can help motivate you to take up and keep up a practice, it can diagnose problems in your practice and really beautiful trips can be a regular reward for it...but they won't be the biggest reward...but it can all help.

Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on August 23, 2013, 01:49 pm
thank you adamiz

@ sitdown: I added these titles to the list on the first page of this thread. Since I don't know all the books I added them in the section "guidebook on meditation while on psychedelics" but if these book would better be placed under another section just let me know (if necessary I'll make a new section for some of them).
Thank you for the info!
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: princeblack49 on August 24, 2013, 12:26 am
@BlackIris: I was wondering, how could you "unblock" blockages in the kundalini energy (at the second chakra) in case it got blocked while tripping? Is there an "easy" way to do this yourself, or only complicated techniques/help from others can dissolve the blockages?

Blockages in the gates of the so-called "chakras" are all having to do with the individual himself, so only you can really go beyond them (others can naturally help you on evidencing you the problem, but it is always a matter of yourself to pass it, nobody can do it for you).

Depending on the chakra the blockade has a particular nature (as for example psychological, philosophical or emotional etc. etc.). To pass a block is a matter of understanding what the cause is and correct the problem. For example, as I said, the blockade in the second chakra is usually experienced as an immense sexual urge. This is, in many cases (the majority) a matter of a sick rapport with your own sexuality that doesn't permit the energy to flow freely or not being capable to refrain from physical stimulation.

I once did a simple breath meditation on 4HO MET and it was amazing. The colors and light intensified and I could feel intense energy in the base of my spine. Soon though I became entangled in sexual thoughts and though the pleasure was intense the fantasy took me away from the thoughtless state of being pure light. Later I got up and smoked a small amount of cannabis and soon after I had a "whiteout" fell and bashed my head. I awoke to my wife crying over me. I strongly feel that I had this reaction from blocked kundalini after reading this thread. It frightened me quite a bit but I have never reacted this way before or since.

Wow,
that sounds intense (in not such a nice way)...
I wonder what BI will say about this experience.
Thanks for sharing it, PrinceBlack
Until the whiteout it was truly amazing.  My attachments to sexual energy or orgasm really did get in the way. It is a powerful energy that has an addictive quality. It is one of those aspects I have done a lot of work around to the extent that I have healed a lot of poor decision making around. I do hope to be able to focus its power beyond orgasm seeking. I really hadn't put the chakra block idea into the equation until I read this thread but Iit all makes sense now. I am very interested in psychedelic therapy. In my youth I misused them and every drug in general.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on August 25, 2013, 11:07 am
@BlackIris: I was wondering, how could you "unblock" blockages in the kundalini energy (at the second chakra) in case it got blocked while tripping? Is there an "easy" way to do this yourself, or only complicated techniques/help from others can dissolve the blockages?

Blockages in the gates of the so-called "chakras" are all having to do with the individual himself, so only you can really go beyond them (others can naturally help you on evidencing you the problem, but it is always a matter of yourself to pass it, nobody can do it for you).

Depending on the chakra the blockade has a particular nature (as for example psychological, philosophical or emotional etc. etc.). To pass a block is a matter of understanding what the cause is and correct the problem. For example, as I said, the blockade in the second chakra is usually experienced as an immense sexual urge. This is, in many cases (the majority) a matter of a sick rapport with your own sexuality that doesn't permit the energy to flow freely or not being capable to refrain from physical stimulation.

I once did a simple breath meditation on 4HO MET and it was amazing. The colors and light intensified and I could feel intense energy in the base of my spine. Soon though I became entangled in sexual thoughts and though the pleasure was intense the fantasy took me away from the thoughtless state of being pure light. Later I got up and smoked a small amount of cannabis and soon after I had a "whiteout" fell and bashed my head. I awoke to my wife crying over me. I strongly feel that I had this reaction from blocked kundalini after reading this thread. It frightened me quite a bit but I have never reacted this way before or since.

Wow,
that sounds intense (in not such a nice way)...
I wonder what BI will say about this experience.
Thanks for sharing it, PrinceBlack
Until the whiteout it was truly amazing.  My attachments to sexual energy or orgasm really did get in the way. It is a powerful energy that has an addictive quality. It is one of those aspects I have done a lot of work around to the extent that I have healed a lot of poor decision making around. I do hope to be able to focus its power beyond orgasm seeking. I really hadn't put the chakra block idea into the equation until I read this thread but Iit all makes sense now. I am very interested in psychedelic therapy. In my youth I misused them and every drug in general.

did you try the practice of (sexual) tantra as a "cure"?
we found that it was extremely good at curing sexual trauma (especially for my GF it was an amazingly effective experience in the most profoundly positive way).

See you on the other forum thread about micro-dosing psychedelics! (see my signature)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BoxofShapes on August 25, 2013, 02:44 pm
I've been meaning to come back to this thread, but I haven't had the time to pay attention like I want.  Been doing some research to try and implement some of the stuff I've read about in here about going on a trip on my own.  I've meditated but I hadn't put it in practice under influences.  It's about time this happened.

Just a couple things I wanted to add for now.

- The Tree of Life, a study in Magic - Israel Regardie
http://www.globalgrey.co.uk/Books/Qabalah/Tree-Of-Life-A-Study-In-Magic.pdf

This is a dead link.  Here is one that works.

http://www.golden-dawn-canada.com/pdf/israel%20regardie%20the%20tree%20of%20life%20a%20study%20in%20magic.pdf

Also two more books that contributed to my ways of magical thinking.  I must admit, I'm terrible at literary analysis but these still made my brain feel good.  It's the very basics of hermetic literature and helps when reading the tomb that is the golden dawn or anything relating.  Both are very short, and fairly similar.

The Divine Pymander by/of Hermes Mercurius Tristmegistus
http://www.theosophical.ca/books/DivinePymanderOfHermesMercuriusTrismegistus,The.pdf

The Kybalion by the Three Initiates
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/kybalion.pdf

I would throw those under the occult section as well. 

If I can add, I don't need a credit for bringing up promethea.  If a comic book is a bit out of place you may take it down but I know a few "professionals" that would give it the same praise. 

Thank you for your time to this thread!  It has been valuable to me and an inspiration to get back into my "natural order" of things. 
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on August 25, 2013, 06:22 pm
I've been meaning to come back to this thread, but I haven't had the time to pay attention like I want.  Been doing some research to try and implement some of the stuff I've read about in here about going on a trip on my own.  I've meditated but I hadn't put it in practice under influences.  It's about time this happened.

Just a couple things I wanted to add for now.

- The Tree of Life, a study in Magic - Israel Regardie
http://www.globalgrey.co.uk/Books/Qabalah/Tree-Of-Life-A-Study-In-Magic.pdf

This is a dead link.  Here is one that works.

http://www.golden-dawn-canada.com/pdf/israel%20regardie%20the%20tree%20of%20life%20a%20study%20in%20magic.pdf

Also two more books that contributed to my ways of magical thinking.  I must admit, I'm terrible at literary analysis but these still made my brain feel good.  It's the very basics of hermetic literature and helps when reading the tomb that is the golden dawn or anything relating.  Both are very short, and fairly similar.

The Divine Pymander by/of Hermes Mercurius Tristmegistus
http://www.theosophical.ca/books/DivinePymanderOfHermesMercuriusTrismegistus,The.pdf

The Kybalion by the Three Initiates
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/kybalion.pdf

I would throw those under the occult section as well. 

If I can add, I don't need a credit for bringing up promethea.  If a comic book is a bit out of place you may take it down but I know a few "professionals" that would give it the same praise. 

Thank you for your time to this thread!  It has been valuable to me and an inspiration to get back into my "natural order" of things.

Thank you Box,
everything has been updated/adapted/added.
Great to have you visit this page again and nice to know it got you back on "Your Road" :-)
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: Gridlokk on August 25, 2013, 08:05 pm
Interesting. I have always been an explorer of meditation as i have adapted several hindu and buddhist views. ive also been a lover of psychedelics and i feel like the 2 go hand in hand for me.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: princeblack49 on August 31, 2013, 10:38 pm
@BlackIris: I was wondering, how could you "unblock" blockages in the kundalini energy (at the second chakra) in case it got blocked while tripping? Is there an "easy" way to do this yourself, or only complicated techniques/help from others can dissolve the blockages?

Blockages in the gates of the so-called "chakras" are all having to do with the individual himself, so only you can really go beyond them (others can naturally help you on evidencing you the problem, but it is always a matter of yourself to pass it, nobody can do it for you).

Depending on the chakra the blockade has a particular nature (as for example psychological, philosophical or emotional etc. etc.). To pass a block is a matter of understanding what the cause is and correct the problem. For example, as I said, the blockade in the second chakra is usually experienced as an immense sexual urge. This is, in many cases (the majority) a matter of a sick rapport with your own sexuality that doesn't permit the energy to flow freely or not being capable to refrain from physical stimulation.

I once did a simple breath meditation on 4HO MET and it was amazing. The colors and light intensified and I could feel intense energy in the base of my spine. Soon though I became entangled in sexual thoughts and though the pleasure was intense the fantasy took me away from the thoughtless state of being pure light. Later I got up and smoked a small amount of cannabis and soon after I had a "whiteout" fell and bashed my head. I awoke to my wife crying over me. I strongly feel that I had this reaction from blocked kundalini after reading this thread. It frightened me quite a bit but I have never reacted this way before or since.

Wow,
that sounds intense (in not such a nice way)...
I wonder what BI will say about this experience.
Thanks for sharing it, PrinceBlack
Until the whiteout it was truly amazing.  My attachments to sexual energy or orgasm really did get in the way. It is a powerful energy that has an addictive quality. It is one of those aspects I have done a lot of work around to the extent that I have healed a lot of poor decision making around. I do hope to be able to focus its power beyond orgasm seeking. I really hadn't put the chakra block idea into the equation until I read this thread but Iit all makes sense now. I am very interested in psychedelic therapy. In my youth I misused them and every drug in general.

did you try the practice of (sexual) tantra as a "cure"?
we found that it was extremely good at curing sexual trauma (especially for my GF it was an amazingly effective experience in the most profoundly positive way).

See you on the other forum thread about micro-dosing psychedelics! (see my signature)
Tantra seems like an excellent idea. My yoga practice has been very slack, kids, business, blahh blahh, all the things yoga can help alleviate the stress of I have let it take over somewhat. I meditate every night but usually after cannabis and into sleep so it is not so profound. Our local teacher practices tantra and brings it into her vinyasa class in breathwork etc... This past week I have started getting my physical body back into shape with sun salutations (cure for any trip gone awry btw) and I will take my humble ass into the studio soon and take it from there. Thx for the reading list.

Anybody seen Black Iris? Noticed he's been gone for a few. Hope all is well. He is a great resource.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: londonlondon on September 01, 2013, 06:32 pm
hey fellow roaders,

aspiring meditator wondering if anyone knows any guides, videos, audiobooks, blogs, etc that has the best, solid advice out there? any specific person who has good meditation teachings for a starters?

cheers!
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BoxofShapes on September 01, 2013, 06:41 pm
It's all on the OP dood.

RaFaeL5 is nice enough to keep it up to date
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: londonlondon on September 01, 2013, 07:37 pm
didn't find anything to find my needs :/.
most links are for books of meditating through psychedelics. i want to learn to meditate 'unassisted'.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: princeblack49 on September 01, 2013, 08:30 pm
didn't find anything to find my needs :/.
most links are for books of meditating through psychedelics. i want to learn to meditate 'unassisted'.

You can go to youtube and find a lot of meditation guides that are easy to sort through under "simple breath meditation". Sent some links to my dad once. You can also try a local yoga studio that isn't fitness yoga.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on September 03, 2013, 08:19 am
It seems indeed that BlackIris has left the building...
I hope he'll come back at some point!

I think there are plenty of usefull links to "normal meditation" on the clearnet...
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BoxofShapes on September 03, 2013, 08:03 pm
It seems indeed that BlackIris has left the building...

I really hope not.  He gave me inconsequentially rekindled a few things for me.

Also I want to bring up I had set aside time to do some good drugs and do my best to meditate.  The acid I took turned out to be pretty bunk so I can't really report anything.  (Didn't come from SR)  Was still a nice evening and the preparation felt cool.

It will happen eventually and I'll be back.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: moonflower on September 03, 2013, 11:43 pm
hey fellow roaders,

aspiring meditator wondering if anyone knows any guides, videos, audiobooks, blogs, etc that has the best, solid advice out there? any specific person who has good meditation teachings for a starters?

cheers!
wherever you go, there you are by jon kabat-zinn is a great starting point.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on September 04, 2013, 09:43 am
hey fellow roaders,

aspiring meditator wondering if anyone knows any guides, videos, audiobooks, blogs, etc that has the best, solid advice out there? any specific person who has good meditation teachings for a starters?

cheers!
wherever you go, there you are by jon kabat-zinn is a great starting point.

Thank you for this info - book has been added to the second post.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: Snoopish on September 10, 2013, 03:40 am
Good idea for a thread. Thanks for starting this,  +1! :)

Subbing to look at later


Cheers,


Snoopish
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: RaFaeL5 on September 10, 2013, 08:19 am
Hi,

I will not be able to keep the OP up-to-date for a while
(see this post for more info: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=173822.msg1525995#msg1525995 )

Sorry for that,
but I hope more info will reach this forum thread and I'll update it as soon as I can!

Take care and enjoy your meditations!
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: cyanate on September 10, 2013, 10:51 pm
Will give mediation a go hopefully I can crack it before i try the LSD I've ordered.
Title: Re: Meditation & psychedelics/mind-alterning-substances
Post by: BoxofShapes on September 11, 2013, 03:50 am
Hi,

I will not be able to keep the OP up-to-date for a while
(see this post for more info: http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=173822.msg1525995#msg1525995 )

Sorry for that,
but I hope more info will reach this forum thread and I'll update it as soon as I can!

Take care and enjoy your meditations!

Damn man.  I hate to see you part even if it is for a small while.

Please be careful wherever your journey leads.  Spread your vibes to the people that need it .  Come back and give us some stories.