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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: cricketplank on June 22, 2013, 09:54 pm

Title: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: cricketplank on June 22, 2013, 09:54 pm
Hi all, speaking with slade17 below I thought I'd start a new thread on this in case people had other perspectives which clash with mine, and I'm interested both in peoples experiences with salvia divinorum and what they might consider as good "first trips"

I personally think smoking salvia would be a great introduction for people who want to take psychedelics but don't know what to expect. It can be so mindblowing and amazing, and so out-of-this-world, but it is over so quickly that you don't need to worry about being stuck in a shitty trip. Mushrooms are generally considered a shorter trip of maybe 5 hours, but lsd can last 12, and i think that experiencing salvia can give people an idea of what COULD happen

"Fool-proof" first trip (no such thing of course but hypothetically)


- have someone (a sitter) administer the salvia to you so that you dont have to worry about putting the bong/pipe down, it comes on quickly so you just want to lie back and close your eyes. Make sure they are respectful and don't make any noise during the journey, until you come back around.
- smoke as much as you can in one minute until you can't smoke anymore
- your body will prickle and feel really really weird - relax and that will go away quickly
- ignore the pipe/bong, lie back, relax completely, close your eyes, let it flow.
- make sure you have picked a song you like and not something that will annoy you. with a big enough dose, whatever you're listening to should disappear and you won't even know anything about anything, let alone what music is on, but when that minute has passed, there is a significant "returning phase" where you will probably be acutely aware of it. profound experience.
- you'll know if you've "broken through" (as the DMT people say). smoking it in small doses will only make you feel weird, but it is quite easy to smoke enough to produce this incredible effect
- i personally don't care for extracts any stronger than 5X or 10X, i have never found the difference to be huge, i think i have a threshold and higher extracts don't seem to make much difference to me.



There are many incredibly interesting things about salvia which I am not going into now, but I really strongly disagree with the way its marketed. I used to get my salvia in normal bags from Bouncing Bear Botanicals, not in these annoying gaudy silver packs. It is a profound plant teacher that has been neglected by our culture!

Anyway, this might help someone somewhere along the line sometime.

Peace and Love
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: zvp1014 on June 23, 2013, 01:31 am
Salvia sounds absolutely horrible, both from online reports and first-hand accounts by friends of mine; even with a perfect setting it doesn't sound all too great. To each their own.

Meanwhile, the first psychedelic I tried was LSD having only had a little bit of experience with MDMA and Marijuana beforehand. I had no issues with it. Go straight for the good stuff!
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: PerPETualMOtion on June 23, 2013, 02:23 am
I love salvia. In my opinion, it might be a rude awakening, but it is nice because it is such a short trip, so if it goes wrong, it's over in less than a lifetime.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 23, 2013, 02:33 am
Honestly man, I don't really think salvia is all that great of an introduction to psychedelics. For one, its not a classical psychedelic and doesn't act on the serotonin system. It acts as a kappa-opioid agonist and isn't really like any other substances out there other than perhaps some defunct pharmaceuticals that never made it to market. It wont give you the feeling that classical serotonergic psychedelics give, and it really doesn't have any euphoric properties during the trip (the positive effects of salvia are the afterglow).

If your looking for a short duration psychedelic that has effects similar to classical psychedelics I would say DMT is the best bet (although still not really a good intro to psychedelics). Salvia can be amazing and mind blowing but its not a good introduction to tripping, matter of fact in my experience I would say it is one of the most uncomfortable psychedelics there is. Shrooms and acid are some of the best started psychedelics, or perhaps a good mescaline trip because its extremely euphoric and very unlikely to result in a bad trip despite its exceedingly long duration.

I mean feel free to try salvia but if you dont like it just dont give up on psychedelics because they really dont feel anything like salvia.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: LSDLucidity on June 23, 2013, 03:02 am
I had a rather bad experience with Salvia. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Mushrooms is the BEST introductory psychedelic. The lower tiers are very easy and welcoming on the mind. Fuck Salvia.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: cricketplank on June 23, 2013, 03:26 pm
Really interesting replies, particularly because they're mostly contradictory to my own opinion, so respect to that.
I think I have a very different history and use of psychedelics than some, salvia was my first really significant teacher, and I ate fly agarics as one of my first mushroom trips (as DMtryptamine285 said about salvia, this is a completely different substance and pathway to other substances - not at all representative of more commonly used substances).

I really look forward to the day when we can analyse everyone's comparable and differential opinions

And for the people wondering about their first trips, I think it's great to read as much as you can of peoples' opinions, but don't get scared off.

Without a doubt my most beneficial experiences have been in ceremonies with ayahuasca with a heart-based shaman who encourages gentle doses and calm and loving catharsis. Many ayahuasca shamans don't work this way, but if they did, I would encourage that to be a person's first trip. If however, you are experimenting at home and buying online, its a different story
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 23, 2013, 04:06 pm
^^ I actually love fly agaric, most people don't like it or find it doesn't work but if you get good mushrooms It can be an amazing experience.
I wouldn't call it a psychedelic, but delirient doesn't really do it justice either. I would say GABAergic hallucinogen.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: Kief on June 23, 2013, 06:44 pm
I love Salvia, but I'd never recommend it for a first trip.  With drugs like Mushrooms and LSD the come up is gradual, 1-2 hours usually.  You peak on Salvia in about 2-5 minutes after smoking.  It hits you like a freight train, and although it only lasts 15 minutes, those 15 minutes you're almost completely out of control.  Mind loops happen often, and to someone not experienced with tripping that could be quite disturbing.  I suggest mushrooms or LSD for a first trip.  That aside, Salvia is fun as fuck haha.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: valakki on June 23, 2013, 10:13 pm
isnt  salvia a dissociative ?
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 23, 2013, 10:17 pm
^^ No its not really a dissociative or a classical psychedelic. It has a unique pharmacology (well not unique but unlike any well known compounds). Some other terpenoids have similar properties but technically it acts on the kappa opioid system and is considered an Atypical psychedelic.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 23, 2013, 10:18 pm
A Terpinoid Isolated from the common coleus has effects shockingly similar to salvia when concentrated.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: b0lixtrader on June 24, 2013, 02:22 am
My one and only time on salvia was a very intense 20 minutes of my life.

Craziest, scariest, and most vivid trip of my life.  I could not see what was in front of me but a total different vision for a good 10-15 minutes.

You have absolutely no control over your body, what you say, think, or do.  You subconsciously do know and can think but have no control of anything...all in all it's a very weird trip.

No one really enjoys salvia trips except if you smoke just little enough to get the giggles and heavy body load but that's about where the fun stops.

No afterglow, insane bodyload, total mindfuck of a trip.

You decide.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 24, 2013, 04:24 am
^^ Well thats not exactly true, some people enjoy salvia trips. You can have a pretty eye opening spiritual experience, but you are correct in that they are often uncomfortable and lack the euphoria that classical psychedelics produce.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: CiscoYankerStuck on June 24, 2013, 04:57 am
- you'll know if you've "broken through" (as the DMT people say). smoking it in small doses will only make you feel weird, but it is quite easy to smoke enough to produce this incredible effect

I've never experienced Salvia. In regards to Salvia, what exactly does "breaking through" mean?

I've broken through about a dozen times on DMT; is it comparable to that, or is it a totally different type of break through?
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 24, 2013, 05:21 am
^^ Different feeling entirely. With breakthrough doses of DMT we are talking about severe perceptual distortions, distorted to the point where reality is unrecognizable, with salvia you will see things that are straight up not real and have absolutely no basis in reality. extreme time/space and body distortions are possible on salvia. On one of my salvia breakthrough I thought I was a period on a bible page, stuck there for all eternity (I am not even a christian lol, I don't even own a bible). I knew that was all I was, I felt I was being punished. All I could see was text, and text was all there was or ever was.

On another salvia trip, I saw myself in a giant shoe and was talking to little "shoe people", then the shoe people where trying to nail boards around me and box me in. Its really insane, completely illogical, and absolutely irrelevent to anything. More of a delirient I would say, you can be convinced of some of the most insane shit, fun to laugh about later though.

Salvia makes you feel...possessed.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: CiscoYankerStuck on June 24, 2013, 06:19 am
^^ Different feeling entirely. With breakthrough doses of DMT we are talking about severe perceptual distortions, distorted to the point where reality is unrecognizable, with salvia you will see things that are straight up not real and have absolutely no basis in reality. extreme time/space and body distortions are possible on salvia. On one of my salvia breakthrough I thought I was a period on a bible page, stuck there for all eternity (I am not even a christian lol, I don't even own a bible). I knew that was all I was, I felt I was being punished. All I could see was text, and text was all there was or ever was.

On another salvia trip, I saw myself in a giant shoe and was talking to little "shoe people", then the shoe people where trying to nail boards around me and box me in. Its really insane, completely illogical, and absolutely irrelevent to anything. More of a delirient I would say, you can be convinced of some of the most insane shit, fun to laugh about later though.

Salvia makes you feel...possessed.

Well damn, that's crazy. I'm intrigued and may have to try it now. Thanks!
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: tedrux on June 24, 2013, 07:53 am
seems too much like crack. no thanks.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: Kief on June 24, 2013, 02:36 pm
seems too much like crack. no thanks.

Yea, it's absolutely nothing like crack.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: jackofspades on June 24, 2013, 03:16 pm
Just tried it for the first time recently. I hated it personally, don't see why anyone would do it more than once, just to see what it was like but i wouldn't even recommend it. I tripped pretty hard on 20x. Couldnt stop laughing for the first few minutes then just felt sick and nervous and scared for the next 30 min or so, i was on some xanax and also smoked cannabis at the same time not sure if that affected the salvia though.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: Tyrion Lannister on June 24, 2013, 04:00 pm
im going to try today. i know is going to be hard, but i need to see what is going on in the salvia dimension =)


EDIT: shit was great, loved it =)
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 24, 2013, 10:44 pm


Its not really hard, its just freaking weird... really really weird.

Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: cricketplank on June 25, 2013, 08:28 am
I have heard that in Mexico some shamans train with the mushrooms as a primary plant teacher, after which they may be called to salvia. I understand why everyone thinks its weird, but it has taught me the most (apart from ayahuasca) about the "structure" of the cosmos, and allows for direct communication to assist your life also (a key grounding of the external trip). One thing to remember is the DIVINORUM part - Salvia is a DIVINER which means it can be used to ask questions about the future, or about high cosmic structures. I found that if I didn't take on board what had been taught to me, the trips would become "samey" and similar to that "dissociation" people speak about (like with nitrous oxide, in my experience).
With great respect, it can be a great teacher, and again, I personally recommend sticking to good quality 5X or 10X, I have experienced the most from these in comparison to higher concentrates
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 25, 2013, 05:28 pm
If you want to use salvia divinorum for spiritual purposes I suggest you follow the mazatecs lead and use the quid method. It doesn't completely strip you from reality and launch you into oblivion like smoking it. The traditional ROA never involved smoking and some see it almost as blaspheme, smoking SD is purely a western phenomanon to the best of my knowledge.

The quid method eases you into it, actually can be euphoric, and allows you to bring back much more from the experience than smoking it. Its like ayahuasca compared to smoking DMT. There is only so much you can retain from being blasted out of this dimension and shot back down to earth at a million miles per hour, doing it this way makes it much less of a rollercoaster and much more of a meaningful experience.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: BlackIris on June 25, 2013, 06:50 pm
Its like ayahuasca compared to smoking DMT. There is only so much you can retain from being blasted out of this dimension and shot back down to earth at a million miles per hour, doing it this way makes it much less of a rollercoaster and much more of a meaningful experience.

I don't know about this, I mean for the comparison ayahuasca vs. smoked DMT. It is true that at beginning with smoking DMT the experience can be so fast as to be underwhelming and you can get almost nothing from it, but in my experience if you can reach certain plateaus then everything changes and your unconscious sort of adapts itself on that fastness and can function in it in almost the same way as taking ayahuasca (the experience will still be a little different since harmala anyway alters the trip, but I'm talking here about the modus operandi). Maybe it's not a thing that happens to everybody but it's indeed possible to learn to do it.

This however never happened to me with smoked Salvia. I've used it about 30 times and no matter what I did or tried I could never teach myself to behave properly during the trip, it was simply too fast to integrate properly and there was no way (even with all the experience in occultism/sorcery I have) in which I could have the experience to adapt to a working rhythm. I don't know why the difference but until now smoked Salvia is the only psychedelic I cannot work properly with (in tea is different); it can be an interesting experience, sure, but as far as utilizing the same via smoking as a "plant teacher" or for a framework it's impossible for me (and for what I've seen around I'm not the only one).
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 25, 2013, 07:01 pm
I'm not saying you cant learn from a smoked DMT or Salvia trip, What I am saying is that ayahuasca or the quid method for salvia are much easier to integrate.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: cricketplank on June 25, 2013, 11:58 pm
I'm not saying you cant learn from a smoked DMT or Salvia trip, What I am saying is that ayahuasca or the quid method for salvia are much easier to integrate.

I have little doubt that what you're saying is fair and true. It's been a long time since I've smoked it in this way, and I'm not inclined to do it anymore, since I've learned of the gentler paths (hence the micro-dosing thread).

Would you say the same about cocaine?
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: cricketplank on June 26, 2013, 12:23 am
^^ Different feeling entirely. With breakthrough doses of DMT we are talking about severe perceptual distortions, distorted to the point where reality is unrecognizable, with salvia you will see things that are straight up not real and have absolutely no basis in reality. extreme time/space and body distortions are possible on salvia. On one of my salvia breakthrough I thought I was a period on a bible page, stuck there for all eternity (I am not even a christian lol, I don't even own a bible). I knew that was all I was, I felt I was being punished. All I could see was text, and text was all there was or ever was.

On another salvia trip, I saw myself in a giant shoe and was talking to little "shoe people", then the shoe people where trying to nail boards around me and box me in. Its really insane, completely illogical, and absolutely irrelevent to anything. More of a delirient I would say, you can be convinced of some of the most insane shit, fun to laugh about later though.

Salvia makes you feel...possessed.

This is very interesting, and I wouldn't agree with it being "irrelevant to anything"
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: DMtryptamine285 on June 26, 2013, 02:32 am
^^ Well I guess you could find a meaning in being boxed in by shoe people lol. Maybe it means that I am confined in my life, idk.

I don't think you can really learn anything from cocaine, there really isn't anything to integrate other than your last doped up sexual encounter that you now regret.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: cricketplank on June 26, 2013, 09:19 am
^^ Well I guess you could find a meaning in being boxed in by shoe people lol. Maybe it means that I am confined in my life, idk.

I don't think you can really learn anything from cocaine, there really isn't anything to integrate other than your last doped up sexual encounter that you now regret.

this is my point of the synthetic derivative comparable to the original plant. salvia extract is a lot closer to salvia than cocaine is to coca i suppose, but I once heard a theory that people seek out cocaine in a subconscious attempt to get a spiritual medicine that they are lacking, similarly with tobacco and alcohol, but these substances have become so warped that they are far away from their ancestral roots
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: Intraterrestrial on June 26, 2013, 11:41 am
Wow, I don't think I can imagine a worse substance than Salvia for an introduction to psychedelics, eek.
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: Tyrion Lannister on June 27, 2013, 12:51 am
Wow, I don't think I can imagine a worse substance than Salvia for an introduction to psychedelics, eek.

man, what are you talking about? salvia is awesome
Title: Re: First trips? Salvia Divinorum as introduction to psychedelics?
Post by: Intraterrestrial on June 27, 2013, 11:34 am
Wow, I don't think I can imagine a worse substance than Salvia for an introduction to psychedelics, eek.

man, what are you talking about? salvia is awesome

Yeah Salvia can be great, nobody said otherwise.

imo however it's a substance best suited to experienced psychonauts and isn't suitable as an introduction to psychedelics