Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: bvincent020 on November 26, 2012, 12:28 am
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Anyone who's gone through withdrawals (especially those who have successfully detoxed, and even more so, those who have detoxed with no weening or opiates whatsoever) knows that moderation in dope/opiate use is key for a not-so-miserable life. Even if you can afford to do it, eventually, using dope or other opiates everyday becomes unsustainable. Eventually, you need to cut down or get off it for a little while, because at some point you just stop getting great rushes, the bills get too high, and both of these things suck. Most of us can't afford it anyway.
I used to IV oxycodone everyday; eventually I got up to 200mg's a day. This was way too expensive, and my life revolved around not getting sick. As I'm sure most people who've gotten to this point (and worse) will tell you, it fucking sucked. So I did a full on, opiate-free detox to get out of that vicious cycle. (That also sucked, but this isn't a thread about detox and withdrawals). I told myself that if I couldn't get to a point of moderation, I'd have to just give up all opiates entirely. I really didn't want to have to be one of those people that has to have it all or nothing. To me, this isn't success, it's not discipline, and it's not fun. So now I do it oxy's, morphine and dope on occasion. Sometimes I'll go on a binge for a little while, and make sure I ween off a bit at the end, and sometimes I'll just spend a night doing it with my friends for fun. I'm glad I can do this. I don't EVER want to feel a single symptom of withdrawals again (the depression is the most unbearable) so if I do get out of hand I try to plan out my stash so that coming off isn't so bad. Doing this isn't easy, but I think if you can do it your life is a lot better. Being stuck in that place where you need opiates every single day is somewhere no one should have to be. So to me, moderation is key for opiates, and I think it's key for everything in life (even things besides drugs). What does everyone else think? Are you content being a junkie for life? Or have you also decided you need to moderate yourself in order to have fun and be successful? Or is this something you want to be able to do? I'm just curious to hear what other people have to say about this, because I read and hear a lot about quitting, detoxing, being a junkie and using, but I rarely ever hear or read people talk about moderate use and occasional binges. So let me know. I'm open to all comments, advice or just discussion in general... unless you haven't used or you're here just to preach to people about getting off opiates entirely, in that case you can fuck off. Also, I don't think this is off topic, and even if it is a little, I've seen way worse, so go complain on those threads.
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There's people with smaller habits that can successfully be a "chipper" or binge every now and then but it gets much harder for those of us that have been using opiates for years and years at higher doses.
For instance, my latest clean time was 8 months while I was incarcerated and once I was released I only did a 3 day binge and already was withdrawaling 10 hours after my last dose on the 3rd day. My tolerance also doesn't quite go down all the way like it used too no matter how long I stay clean for (much like when you repeatedly switch from your DOC to Bupe back and forth and it becomes harder and harder to transition)
Now I'm not saying everyone is like this, but usually the longer you use opiates for and the more opiates you use...it starts to become very difficult to use in moderation....some people are able to do it though and more power to them!
It usually comes down to whether you want to live life using or live life not using...there's not much in between for most except for the few lucky ones and who can successfully use in moderation for years with no problem.
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I suppose a lot of it depends on how you define "moderation." I definitely noticed that as I switched between opiates, and every time I did a big detox, my tolerance would do what you described, hit a floor basically. It wouldn't get a low as I expected it to. It definitely gets to a point where your tolerance will never go back down to virgin levels again.
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With using opiates in moderation the chances of overdosing leading to death becomes increased. (Do not want to preach, hopefully you will consider it and keep safe no matter what you do!)
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Well I haven't really been "addicted" to Opiates but since I've found the silk road I've been using them a lot more now. Initially I was just using 30mg roxies and they were so expensive in real life that I could only afford 3 or 4 for the weekends. After I found SR I decided it'd be a good move to buy heroin because it's more potent and would end up being cheaper in the long run.
At first 250mg was lasting me 5 days, of anyone's product. Like hatter or subs. I was snorting and smoking at first. 2 weeks after using up almost a gram I decided to try IV and IM and for 2 weeks I've been doing two shots a day. Guess I've gone through about 4 grams in a month and a half?
I think my point is moderating my doses is getting harder and harder because I can't really tell if I'm getting more addicted and crave more, if my tolerance is going up and I need more to get high, or if I'm afraid of getting w/d symptoms and stuff...(actually if I've been using every day for 2 weeks but only killed about two grams am I gonna go thru w/d? I'm all out and am refusing to buy myself more for the week.)
anyway I can't really see myself stopping all opiate use soon. I love the feeling and it's great to shoot up at like 8pm and just chill at home and do work or watch TV....idk it's just awesome. I think I'm doing ok moderating. I don't IV much and since the road has some pretty close to pure uncut H intra muscular IMHO isn't all that dangerous.
Good luck tho! Anyone reading this who is thinking about trying opiates: I'd suggest not to. I was hooked when I received IV Dilaudid in the hospital for appendicitis. I knew I'd be trying dope eventually cuz of it...I couldn't forget that feeling.
ah what a rant. guess I'm pretty high lol.
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Anyone who's gone through withdrawals (especially those who have successfully detoxed, and even more so, those who have detoxed with no weening or opiates whatsoever) knows that moderation in dope/opiate use is key for a not-so-miserable life. Even if you can afford to do it, eventually, using dope or other opiates everyday becomes unsustainable. Eventually, you need to cut down or get off it for a little while, because at some point you just stop getting great rushes, the bills get too high, and both of these things suck. Most of us can't afford it anyway.
I used to IV oxycodone everyday; eventually I got up to 200mg's a day. This was way too expensive, and my life revolved around not getting sick. As I'm sure most people who've gotten to this point (and worse) will tell you, it fucking sucked. So I did a full on, opiate-free detox to get out of that vicious cycle. (That also sucked, but this isn't a thread about detox and withdrawals). I told myself that if I couldn't get to a point of moderation, I'd have to just give up all opiates entirely. I really didn't want to have to be one of those people that has to have it all or nothing. To me, this isn't success, it's not discipline, and it's not fun. So now I do it oxy's, morphine and dope on occasion. Sometimes I'll go on a binge for a little while, and make sure I ween off a bit at the end, and sometimes I'll just spend a night doing it with my friends for fun. I'm glad I can do this. I don't EVER want to feel a single symptom of withdrawals again (the depression is the most unbearable) so if I do get out of hand I try to plan out my stash so that coming off isn't so bad. Doing this isn't easy, but I think if you can do it your life is a lot better. Being stuck in that place where you need opiates every single day is somewhere no one should have to be. So to me, moderation is key for opiates, and I think it's key for everything in life (even things besides drugs). What does everyone else think? Are you content being a junkie for life? Or have you also decided you need to moderate yourself in order to have fun and be successful? Or is this something you want to be able to do? I'm just curious to hear what other people have to say about this, because I read and hear a lot about quitting, detoxing, being a junkie and using, but I rarely ever hear or read people talk about moderate use and occasional binges. So let me know. I'm open to all comments, advice or just discussion in general... unless you haven't used or you're here just to preach to people about getting off opiates entirely, in that case you can fuck off. Also, I don't think this is off topic, and even if it is a little, I've seen way worse, so go complain on those threads.
my first drug was heroin and I used to shoot it 1-2 weeks and rest one week through mild withdrawals. then again. and again. i can't seem to control myself completely its sometimes this impulsive behavior that takes ahold of me, it feels like i myself don't go to the dope spot but my mind controls my whole body with a single purpose of getting a hit. after over a year of this use it took a toll on my body, im not in greap shape to begin with and have weak liver so i got naltrexone implant for 3 months and now its the first week after 3 months and i shoot some dope and just a slight slight effects, eyes don't even constrict I don't know what to do. I hope that i will be able to control my use completely one day is it possible ? anyone achieved it ? offtopic but maybe someone knows where to get clean desomorphine ?
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Well I haven't really been "addicted" to Opiates but since I've found the silk road I've been using them a lot more now. Initially I was just using 30mg roxies and they were so expensive in real life that I could only afford 3 or 4 for the weekends. After I found SR I decided it'd be a good move to buy heroin because it's more potent and would end up being cheaper in the long run.
At first 250mg was lasting me 5 days, of anyone's product. Like hatter or subs. I was snorting and smoking at first. 2 weeks after using up almost a gram I decided to try IV and IM and for 2 weeks I've been doing two shots a day. Guess I've gone through about 4 grams in a month and a half?
I think my point is moderating my doses is getting harder and harder because I can't really tell if I'm getting more addicted and crave more, if my tolerance is going up and I need more to get high, or if I'm afraid of getting w/d symptoms and stuff...(actually if I've been using every day for 2 weeks but only killed about two grams am I gonna go thru w/d? I'm all out and am refusing to buy myself more for the week.)
anyway I can't really see myself stopping all opiate use soon. I love the feeling and it's great to shoot up at like 8pm and just chill at home and do work or watch TV....idk it's just awesome. I think I'm doing ok moderating. I don't IV much and since the road has some pretty close to pure uncut H intra muscular IMHO isn't all that dangerous.
Good luck tho! Anyone reading this who is thinking about trying opiates: I'd suggest not to. I was hooked when I received IV Dilaudid in the hospital for appendicitis. I knew I'd be trying dope eventually cuz of it...I couldn't forget that feeling.
ah what a rant. guess I'm pretty high lol.
If you don't ever want to get withdrawals you should use no more than 3 days in a row. if you use for 3 days you will get slight withdrawals but nothing major.
I know all about morning shot of H. It is my favourite. Especially when in my country is winter and cold outside and you can barely get out of bed because its cold and in some cases you are in withdrawals. And i used to make a shot in the evening and put syringe under my pillow so when i wake up I wouldn't need to get out of bed and get cold lol. And when you shoot average dose you start to warm up (at the time mine was no 3 h or heroin who contained alot of morphine so from high doses i used to get pins and needles sensation it's like thousands needles sticking from inside your face and body and skin gets very itchy and to tell you the truth it hurts) so yeah it was great morning shot - best shot of the day. And when winters here its still dark in the morning so shooting heroin was like shooting sunshine into your veins (liquid was this nice yellow). Mmmm....
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That way lies madness.
Chipping may work for a while, but it never lasts forever. Eventually it'll suck all other joys from your life and the only pleasure you'll know is that opiate bliss you've been waiting for for days or weeks.
I spent most of a decade on the needle. And let me tell you, it stops being fun right quick.
Of course you won't listen (I never did), but you can't say you weren't warned.
Good luck.
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but I rarely ever hear or read people talk about moderate use and occasional binges.
That's because it "moderate", and "occasional binges" and heroin don't go well together. There's a very few people that manage to chip for any extended period of time. It's one of the those trips where you wake up one day, and that occasional weekend use has become everyday and you just don't know how it happened. The best advice is don't even start, the party doesn't last long enough to be worth it, and when the piper comes calling his bill is too high.
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Chipping may work for a while, but it never lasts forever. Eventually it'll suck all other joys from your life and the only pleasure you'll know is that opiate bliss you've been waiting for for days or weeks.
Never truer words were spoken. I love SR because ordering isn't instant gratification... so it's easier for me to chip. But man, the first few days after a run I can think of nothing else, and it's 10x worse after I order and the waiting begins. Big exhale after the mail runs and there's only bills...
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but I rarely ever hear or read people talk about moderate use and occasional binges.
That's because it "moderate", and "occasional binges" and heroin don't go well together. There's a very few people that manage to chip for any extended period of time. It's one of the those trips where you wake up one day, and that occasional weekend use has become everyday and you just don't know how it happened. The best advice is don't even start, the party doesn't last long enough to be worth it, and when the piper comes calling his bill is too high.
The absolute last thing I was looking for was a lecture on dope use. Telling people who do dope to never start is useless and irrelevant. I was looking for people's opinions and experiences on using dope in moderation -- not to be told not to use dope or that I never should have started. If I wanted a lecture, I'd go to AA or NA for that. Also, I think it's REALLY absurd and ironic that people are telling me "chipping" (which I have no idea the exact definition of that phrase) doesn't work, when of course only the person doing it can judge whether or not it works for them. And to anyone who is simultaneously saying that it cannot be done, but also not saying people should quit opiates entirely, is essentially saying that being a full blown junkie is more desirable. So please, anyone who wants to share with me their experiences on using in moderation (whether it worked or not) please share. Anyone else, please save your lectures for someone else -- I'm not interested.
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Obviously I think it depends majorly on what's going on in your life. If you're living in a way where you can't wait to get home, sit in a dark room, cry and go to bed then (in my opinion and personal experience) it's going to be a hundred times more difficult for you or anyone to have modern heroin use - it'll make everything okay or at least numb and that's just as powerful as the drug in my opinion. On the opposite spectrum if you have full day, someone you love, friends, happiness and all that bullshit then moderate use is completely possible, you won't constantly be seeking that relief.
At least that's how it worked for me in my (on going) 6 month dance with dope.
But one thing that I think is important to note is that if you're in that slump, downhill part of your life, nodding out for 4 hours won't help you get your shit back on track in the slightest.
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i had a long strange journey with opiates. started with occassional pharm and then junky "scramble" dope. then i moved and accidently got a steady source who was also a wonderful person and friend. i was helping support her family and went from customer to friend, and then got in deep. chipping led to weekly binges.. then bad times and a later pharm addiction.
so i used loperamide for about a year, which works just like methadone for me (including blocking other opiate action). a few weeks ago i finished a 100 day 0.5/mg a day titriation.
during the year SR actually has been my savior. pharms are ridiculous here and H prices are high (but quality rocks) so it's no impulse buy. i rewarded myself with a small bit of BTH and was amazed at how good the high is when u have no tolerance and no memory of being high anymore.
the advantage here is u don't feel pressured to buy a ton to make a capricious asshole dealer not force u to wait 6 hours. when u limit the supply it becomes a precious thing that is saved for special occasions. and honestly from a purely financial view H is simply the best bang for the buck... long lasting, from 50-75 mg for only 25-30 bucks (if it was morphine u may be spending 50-75 for the same).
just never order enough to get sick. and if u start getting anxious and counting the calendar it's time to take a break.
the more u plan, the more u decide to create an environment for your experience (relaxing, social, post-stimulant, etc), then it just becomes like any other substance...an enhancement to life not a necessity.
if SR dies tomorrow I'll never see H again.. i've removed all the people from my life that had access and am terrified to try to find it. but it's amazing that having unlimited access is in fact the most powerful defense for me. it was the scarcity, unreliability, fear, and anxiety of the run that drove me to overindulge. it's counter-intuitive but true...:)
*destiny*
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i had a long strange journey with opiates. started with occassional pharm and then junky "scramble" dope. then i moved and accidently got a steady source who was also a wonderful person and friend. i was helping support her family and went from customer to friend, and then got in deep. chipping led to weekly binges.. then bad times and a later pharm addiction.
so i used loperamide for about a year, which works just like methadone for me (including blocking other opiate action). a few weeks ago i finished a 100 day 0.5/mg a day titriation.
during the year SR actually has been my savior. pharms are ridiculous here and H prices are high (but quality rocks) so it's no impulse buy. i rewarded myself with a small bit of BTH and was amazed at how good the high is when u have no tolerance and no memory of being high anymore.
the advantage here is u don't feel pressured to buy a ton to make a capricious asshole dealer not force u to wait 6 hours. when u limit the supply it becomes a precious thing that is saved for special occasions. and honestly from a purely financial view H is simply the best bang for the buck... long lasting, from 50-75 mg for only 25-30 bucks (if it was morphine u may be spending 50-75 for the same).
just never order enough to get sick. and if u start getting anxious and counting the calendar it's time to take a break.
the more u plan, the more u decide to create an environment for your experience (relaxing, social, post-stimulant, etc), then it just becomes like any other substance...an enhancement to life not a necessity.
if SR dies tomorrow I'll never see H again.. i've removed all the people from my life that had access and am terrified to try to find it. but it's amazing that having unlimited access is in fact the most powerful defense for me. it was the scarcity, unreliability, fear, and anxiety of the run that drove me to overindulge. it's counter-intuitive but true...:)
*destiny*
yes thats true alot of people who gets diamorphine in substitution therapy quits it because there's no thrill in getting money and scoring.
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but I rarely ever hear or read people talk about moderate use and occasional binges.
That's because it "moderate", and "occasional binges" and heroin don't go well together. There's a very few people that manage to chip for any extended period of time. It's one of the those trips where you wake up one day, and that occasional weekend use has become everyday and you just don't know how it happened. The best advice is don't even start, the party doesn't last long enough to be worth it, and when the piper comes calling his bill is too high.
The absolute last thing I was looking for was a lecture on dope use. Telling people who do dope to never start is useless and irrelevant. I was looking for people's opinions and experiences on using dope in moderation -- not to be told not to use dope or that I never should have started. If I wanted a lecture, I'd go to AA or NA for that. Also, I think it's REALLY absurd and ironic that people are telling me "chipping" (which I have no idea the exact definition of that phrase) doesn't work, when of course only the person doing it can judge whether or not it works for them. And to anyone who is simultaneously saying that it cannot be done, but also not saying people should quit opiates entirely, is essentially saying that being a full blown junkie is more desirable. So please, anyone who wants to share with me their experiences on using in moderation (whether it worked or not) please share. Anyone else, please save your lectures for someone else -- I'm not interested.
Do whatever you want, I couldn't careless. You asked for input and you got it. Personally I think you're just looking for validation of an excuse to keep using, but whatever. You've already been there, you know the answers to your questions.
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i can't remember the last time i took a full agonist one day and then nothing the next... unless my supply ran out
i'm not the type of person who can moderate opiate use, i can moderate cigarettes, weed, alcohols. hell i can even use amps/stims in moderation, i've got a fat stack of adderall that i've been saving for no good reason other than that i don't want it. but when it comes to that dope, maannnn i am completely fucking awe struck at its power
i've thought about getting a naltrexone or naloxone implant whatever they are, but then i'd just be doing dope and fucking puking all the time so really it would be stupid.
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but I rarely ever hear or read people talk about moderate use and occasional binges.
That's because it "moderate", and "occasional binges" and heroin don't go well together. There's a very few people that manage to chip for any extended period of time. It's one of the those trips where you wake up one day, and that occasional weekend use has become everyday and you just don't know how it happened. The best advice is don't even start, the party doesn't last long enough to be worth it, and when the piper comes calling his bill is too high.
The absolute last thing I was looking for was a lecture on dope use. Telling people who do dope to never start is useless and irrelevant. I was looking for people's opinions and experiences on using dope in moderation -- not to be told not to use dope or that I never should have started. If I wanted a lecture, I'd go to AA or NA for that. Also, I think it's REALLY absurd and ironic that people are telling me "chipping" (which I have no idea the exact definition of that phrase) doesn't work, when of course only the person doing it can judge whether or not it works for them. And to anyone who is simultaneously saying that it cannot be done, but also not saying people should quit opiates entirely, is essentially saying that being a full blown junkie is more desirable. So please, anyone who wants to share with me their experiences on using in moderation (whether it worked or not) please share. Anyone else, please save your lectures for someone else -- I'm not interested.
Do whatever you want, I couldn't careless. You asked for input and you got it. Personally I think you're just looking for validation of an excuse to keep using, but whatever. You've already been there, you know the answers to your questions.
Spare me. You should know damn well I'm not looking for validation, I am totally open to hearing from people who absolutely could not moderate when they tried. What I don't want is to be told that I cannot do it, or most of all, that I need quit etc.