Silk Road forums

Discussion => Philosophy, Economics and Justice => Topic started by: Rastaman Vibration on July 06, 2013, 09:04 am

Title: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 06, 2013, 09:04 am
Yes, I believe in aliens. It seems so lonely to think that we earthlings are alone in the vastness that is the universe.

Plus I've seen some pretty compelling evidence on blackvault.com. Govt documents that were declassified through FOIA. These are accounts of military specialists who's job it is to identify aircraft, and they couldn't identify it (hence UFO). My favorite is one "encounter" where a UFO hovered over a military base that was conducting a nuclear 'test' launch. The UFO hovered over the rocket or whatever, and then the test launch facility lost power. As if the UFO was trying to tell us something. Like, "don't fuck with nukes, you stupid human!".

Has anyone here seen a UFO? Or care to chime in?

;D
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: bankofgt on July 06, 2013, 10:04 am

Yep there's a major cover up going on for sure. Egyptians built the Pyramids surely that's a mummified corpse say Gen Y . Crop circles look pretty fraudulent most times but  sometimes sober  McCoy  simple yet ingenious in design. The half side of the  moon that we never see has huge artificial structures.  The Martian sky is actually Blue and has been photo shopped for humanity's convenience swallow the Big Mac. The Face of humanity as a whole is not ready to be  told we are not alone Michio Kaku has said so himself. What would happen to religion?.  I concur with Lloyd  Pye AK47 starchildproject.com. We are genetically modified hence the fused 23rd chromosome in our D.N.A.  Maybe I'm going out on a limb here remember the earth was  flat once upon a time? Case In point
Google Earth does not orbit around the sun. I'm no expert but we all choose to believe what we chose to believe

Rastaman  Vibration nice topic man .... Safari Bob Morley No Woman no Cry circa 79' youtube

Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: mrguymann on July 06, 2013, 05:38 pm
Ive seen 2undeniable UFOs in my life so far - and I dont know exactly what they were, but they were way beyond anything natural,  human, or earthly in origin. I dont feel like writing 2 pages or I'd describe them to you.  If anyone doubts they're existance- i turn it around and  say : Prove to me that Aliens dont exist.

Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: goblin on July 06, 2013, 05:43 pm
Ive seen 2undeniable UFOs in my life so far - and I dont know exactly what they were, but they were way beyond anything natural,  human, or earthly in origin. I dont feel like writing 2 pages or I'd describe them to you.  If anyone doubts they're existance- i turn it around and  say : Prove to me that Aliens dont exist.
Well finally someone with first-hand experience. That's the only kind that counts. I envy your sightings.

On the other hand, you cannot prove a negative, so don't even ask.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Lucius Luv on July 06, 2013, 07:04 pm
i asked my subconscious to show me information on alien experiences during a psychedelic trip, this is the answer it gave me:

most alien experiences are transdimensional.  I find joy in thinking whenever the government or powers that be, plan to do something gravely fucked up, they will start to experience ufo and alien abduction scenarios, because that is how the universe balance the powers that be black magick attacks.  they study the alien phenom because it prevents them from completely taking over, they don't understand it, but they know this is real.

the devil/evil elite have the power to crush us,  thankfully unseen but completely real forces -like these aliens i speak of -are manifested into our reality to interject and even the playing field -related to the universal laws of kharma  -cause and reaction.  most specifically -i am talking about the grey aliens and disc ufo.

disk ufo's may also be aiding the continuity of earths energy ley line grid, using it's influence to keep the grids in harmonic vibration. I believe modern ufo phenom began around the time of hitler -nuclear threats -and advances in tesla weapons. the aliens keep things in check. 

I also think their are possibly fake alien agendas, and real aliens of a different nature than greys, -but i can't speak as if i know anything about that too much.

aliens are us, in the past, future, or another plane of time.. everything is non linearly and linearly connected, for it not to be is impossible for we wouldn't exist in this universe as it is.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 07, 2013, 07:25 am
Ive seen 2undeniable UFOs in my life so far - and I dont know exactly what they were, but they were way beyond anything natural,  human, or earthly in origin. I dont feel like writing 2 pages or I'd describe them to you.  If anyone doubts they're existance- i turn it around and  say : Prove to me that Aliens dont exist.

I also envy you, mrguymann. If you ever get a chance to type out your account, I'd love to read it. :)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Juggernog on July 07, 2013, 07:38 am
Oh boy, I can't wait to give my thoughts on this one..

Just responding now before bed to subscribe..

Will get back to this monday..

I have LOTS to say.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: goblin on July 07, 2013, 12:43 pm
This may be a long shot and I'm possibly opening myself up to creative writing, but has anybody here been the subject (victim?) of an alien abduction?
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: thedopestjunkie on July 07, 2013, 04:47 pm
We are definitely not alone in the universe
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 07, 2013, 05:09 pm
I'm not so stuck up and naive to believe that we are the only intelligent race. ;D


Me a friend and a friend's family member all saw something unidentified in the sky before.  It made a right hand turn fly flying in the sky. :o  No idea what it was.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: soviet on July 08, 2013, 07:58 am
Alien life-forms almost certainly exist somewhere in the Universe.

The whole alien UFOs thing, on the other hand, is a bunch of sensationalized bullshit.

Ive seen 2undeniable UFOs in my life so far - and I dont know exactly what they were, but they were way beyond anything natural,  human, or earthly in origin. I dont feel like writing 2 pages or I'd describe them to you.  If anyone doubts they're existance- i turn it around and  say : Prove to me that Aliens dont exist.



Oh yea? Well Ive seen 2undeniable ghosts in my life so far - and I dont know exactly what they were, but they were way beyond anything natural,  human, or earthly in origin. I dont feel like writing 2 pages or I'd describe them to you.  If anyone doubts they're existance- i turn it around and  say : Prove to me that ghosts dont exist.


Yep there's a major cover up going on for sure. Egyptians built the Pyramids surely that's a mummified corpse say Gen Y . Crop circles look pretty fraudulent most times but  sometimes sober  McCoy  simple yet ingenious in design. The half side of the  moon that we never see has huge artificial structures.  The Martian sky is actually Blue and has been photo shopped for humanity's convenience swallow the Big Mac. The Face of humanity as a whole is not ready to be  told we are not alone Michio Kaku has said so himself. What would happen to religion?.  I concur with Lloyd  Pye AK47 starchildproject.com. We are genetically modified hence the fused 23rd chromosome in our D.N.A.  Maybe I'm going out on a limb here remember the earth was  flat once upon a time? Case In point
Google Earth does not orbit around the sun. I'm no expert but we all choose to believe what we chose to believe

Rastaman  Vibration nice topic man .... Safari Bob Morley No Woman no Cry circa 79' youtube



So much quackery and bollocks here I can't even...
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: zxydwx3 on July 08, 2013, 08:26 am
I think there is other life in the universe. Like Jack said, it'd be pretty arrogant to think that we are all there is.

I'm very much more sure that none of the rest of the life in the universe has been to visit as UFOs.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 08, 2013, 09:09 am
Theere's no doubt about 'other life' "in the universe"  after all, it IS a pretty big place, at least the bit we know of! 

  Who's to say other 'sentient lifeforms' are encapsulated in organic coverings such as ours? 

IMO many/most of the UFO's we  'see' are combinations of  ""Beyond Top Secret"  type "Black Ops" research,
 (of which there IS already a fairly comprehensive amount of 'proof' it goes on ... a Lot!)

What about the "massive black triangle" a year or so in the US  which was SO HUGE that it seemed to be completely silent and just sat there for a while, and most of the city saw it ... it became 'irrelevant very quickly :o A  MASSIVE  SILENT BLACK TRIANGLE OVER 1KM PER SIDE IN SIZE 'hovers' over a major US city for a few hours, last  year, and "now, it's forgotten"  It was "just another  ufo!" 

 Yeah Right!  :o  How can people be SO 'uncomcerned at the LIES they're being told"  ....  like the little speech the 'ex Canadian minister for defense' began talking about the "aliens"  he has personally come to know about in his job ...Aliens that live underground ... etc, It's on youtube and the jaws dropping around him can almost be heard!

 craft with propulsion systems which are SO efficient, the whole "power generation industry' as we currently know it would cease to be.

 Nikola  Tesla worked out a lot of the essence of this idea, the US 'forces' took over from there  :(   

It is said that when he fully realized the potential of this 'method' of power distribution, which worked utilizing the ionosphere AND the Schumann resonance of the planet (6-8hz) he realised that "in the wrong hands it was lethal, SO he broke the whole theory into 5 sections, which in themselves were completely insufficient to 'build' one of his devices. IIRC he gave a 'part' to the US, Russia, China, Germany and Japan!
  With the 'idea' behind this being that the only way these guys 'could get all the plans' was to collabarate, and after WW2 the US went to GREAT lengths to "gather" these great physicists and scientists of all disciplines from germany and Russia after the war in a move called Project Paperclip IIRC (it was called something else like 'Project paperbook' or something? :-\)

Anyway, we are now entering the final stages of the 'power wars' 
FFS! They even tried to have Tesla Cars stopped from being sold in the US in EVERY WAY they could think of! 

The oils IS 'running out' and alternative options ARE available, but most of their inventors have pretty much been told to "desist or die" ... and/or we'll fuck up your family

(another reason Govt's,  banks and business 'love a family man' ... he's far more easily manipulated by 'societies conventions and opinions'  (marriages and mortgages  ???)
And WILL DO AS HE'S TOLD ...

Whereas "drug takers' are by 'nature, Rebels, and 'inherently dangerous' people who cant be easily restrained  and just dont get into "believing the bullshit about and fearing god and country!"


What do you think those Deep Underground Bases 3 CUBIC MILES IN SIZE are for?  And at last count, there's apparently well over 150 of them? ???  They weren't cheap to build but do you remember who approved the funding, or where it came from?

 Do you truly believe the Goverments of the world aren't in cahoots with each other about this stuff?   Look at the way Russia and the US are 'posing' over 'taking opposing sides' in Syria

I think we're ALL gonna be in for a bit of a rude awakening?


UFMOTEK   :o 8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: therabbithole on July 08, 2013, 04:44 pm
There are thousand millions of planets in the universe, it's hard to believe that we are alone.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: ChemCat on July 08, 2013, 05:21 pm
what would make us think...as intelligent beings...to say that we are the Only living intelligent beings

in this vast multitude of universes and galaxies?

Shoot, i just think that if we're here..there has to be other intelligent living things out there as well..
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 05:26 pm
Okay I'll say it...






ChemCat is an alien!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: ChemCat on July 08, 2013, 05:33 pm
doh!  :o



my secret is out  :(

**Transforms into an eggheaded bug eyed aleein**















    Bahahahaha!!

                                                             >:D
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: lady meth on July 08, 2013, 07:27 pm
rastaman vibration !!!!!!!!! YE AH! !!!!!!!!!!!positive. .........POSITIVE vibration YE AH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!positive.!!!!!!!!!!  oh YO OOOO, OH YO YO YO YO YO YO YOOOO OOH...OHY YOOOOOOOOOOO,   OH YO YO YO YO YO YO OOOOOOHHHHH, oy yo yo yo ohhhhhhohhhhhhhhh     RASTAMAN vibration YE A H ........!!!!!!!!!  POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!  POSITIVE VIBRATION   YE AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   POSITIVE!!! OY YOY YO       OOOOY   YOY YO YO YO OHHHHHH
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Jack N Hoff on July 08, 2013, 07:36 pm
rastaman vibration !!!!!!!!! YE AH! !!!!!!!!!!!positive. .........POSITIVE vibration YE AH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!positive.!!!!!!!!!!  oh YO OOOO, OH YO YO YO YO YO YO YOOOO OOH...OHY YOOOOOOOOOOO,   OH YO YO YO YO YO YO OOOOOOHHHHH, oy yo yo yo ohhhhhhohhhhhhhhh     RASTAMAN vibration YE A H ........!!!!!!!!!  POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!!  POSITIVE VIBRATION   YE AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   POSITIVE!!! OY YOY YO       OOOOY   YOY YO YO YO OHHHHHH

Meth is a hell of a drug! ;D
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: lady meth on July 08, 2013, 08:04 pm
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D   ya think? ;)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: jackofspades on July 09, 2013, 08:14 am
Maybe SR is run by ET and dpr server's are on a mothership lightyears away and they just want humans to have drugs and realize we need their help because we are fucking ourselves over right now.


OMG im high as fuck right now.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 09, 2013, 02:36 pm
I WISH I could have a UFO experience!    I WANT to believe...like good ol' Fox Mulder's poster.   That's dating me a bit.  Oh well.   ::)   People have seen unidentified shit in the sky for ages and ages.  If you have your handy dandy Hebrew Bible laying around (Old Testament as it is known in Christian circles) flip to Ezekiel Chapter 1, verse 24-ish...if goddamn Ezekiel wasn't looking at a UFO then he must have been trippin' balls !!   (Probably goes for a lot of miracles in the holy books, but that's a different tangent.)  Uh, it is my belief the chances of a race of advanced extraterrestrials making it to Earth are pretty close to nothing.  The distances between stars are vast....300 million light years or whatever.   Any being that decides to come check us out will have to have some pretty damn spiffy technology and would probably want to wipe us out immediately....not just harass our farmers and make crop circles when nobody is looking.   ;D    There is undoubtedly life on other planets but its stage of evolution compared to ours is probably at the protozoan level or maybe pond scum.  :P  If anything has evolved to something as complex as a potato bug, I'd be surprised.   At any rate, if life happened to take root on another earth-like planet with abundant water and all the right elements, etc...it's so far away they can't reach us and we won't reach them.   Call me a skeptic...but the universe is just too vast and evolution is just too fucking slow.   Thanks for starting a great thread.   Good stuff.   8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Sasscrotch on July 11, 2013, 12:54 am
There are thousand millions of planets in the universe, it's hard to believe that we are alone.

Great point--

I agree with Therabbithole.  It's really not an issue of belief per se or even what governments can hide but rather it's a numbers game.  Statistically speaking, we're absolutely not alone-- but even that doesn't give a complete explanation.  For even if we're "not alone" who's to say life exists at the same time while within reach?  Because even with alien life out there there's still the matter of where to look, WHEN to look, and factoring in for the time it even takes light to return to a viewer on earth (assuming we're observing extra-solar planets for alien life). 

As far as government cover-ups..  I'm fenced between a strong desire for logic and a deep distrust for authoritah...

That said, the best example of a government's ability to distort space information that I've seen...  Apparently there is a "plant like" thing that exists on mars and is responsive to the martian seasons.  Most would call that life, however it has not been formally confirmed.  Check out GODs from OuterSpace.  The second speaker talks about this briefly.  It may still be on Netfli
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: XxWINxX94x23 on July 11, 2013, 03:49 am
I definitely believe in aliens or extraterrestrial life. I would love to see a supernatural event or a UFO, but unfortunately haven't been graced with it.

For those who are skeptical, take a look at this video. No its not some crazy cracked out redneck talking about how his wife got tractor-beamed into a spaceship. It shows some legitimate maths and science guessing the possibility of intelligent life in the universe, based on rough data scientists already know.

Oh yea, it has Carl Sagan in it, too!  8)

Enjoy,

**CLEARNET LINK**
http://youtu.be/MlikCebQSlY
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: SealTeam6 on July 11, 2013, 05:14 am
I'm not so stuck up and naive to believe that we are the only intelligent race. ;D


Me a friend and a friend's family member all saw something unidentified in the sky before.  It made a right hand turn fly flying in the sky. :o  No idea what it was.

I can't remember a time when I didn't believe in Aliens, as a kid this was always my thought as well, how in the world could we as humans be so arrogant to think that we were it!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: SealTeam6 on July 11, 2013, 05:18 am
i asked my subconscious to show me information on alien experiences during a psychedelic trip, this is the answer it gave me:

most alien experiences are transdimensional.  I find joy in thinking whenever the government or powers that be, plan to do something gravely fucked up, they will start to experience ufo and alien abduction scenarios, because that is how the universe balance the powers that be black magick attacks.  they study the alien phenom because it prevents them from completely taking over, they don't understand it, but they know this is real.

the devil/evil elite have the power to crush us,  thankfully unseen but completely real forces -like these aliens i speak of -are manifested into our reality to interject and even the playing field -related to the universal laws of kharma  -cause and reaction.  most specifically -i am talking about the grey aliens and disc ufo.

disk ufo's may also be aiding the continuity of earths energy ley line grid, using it's influence to keep the grids in harmonic vibration. I believe modern ufo phenom began around the time of hitler -nuclear threats -and advances in tesla weapons. the aliens keep things in check. 

I also think their are possibly fake alien agendas, and real aliens of a different nature than greys, -but i can't speak as if i know anything about that too much.

aliens are us, in the past, future, or another plane of time.. everything is non linearly and linearly connected, for it not to be is impossible for we wouldn't exist in this universe as it is.

I did the same thing recently.  The answer was a little bit fuzzy, but it was as if I was being directed towards my own DNA, which would give some credit to the claim that we as humans are an alien design.  Either that or we are the aliens and the UFOs are us, it's exciting in a way, not knowing for sure.  Idk, looking forward to exploring my mind more soon for answers!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: heatcheck on July 11, 2013, 05:43 am
There are thousand millions of planets in the universe, it's hard to believe that we are alone.

Exactly. But since most of the stars we ever see are already dead.... the other life probably wouldn't be near us.

I'm a firm believer that somewhere there is probably life, but I don't buy into UFO sightings. Especially abductions... and anul probes? Please.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Choniven on July 11, 2013, 06:02 am
We are not alone  ;D

There is most definitely other life forms out there

 :o
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Juggernog on July 11, 2013, 07:32 pm
I WISH I could have a UFO experience!    I WANT to believe...like good ol' Fox Mulder's poster.   That's dating me a bit.  Oh well.   ::)   People have seen unidentified shit in the sky for ages and ages.  If you have your handy dandy Hebrew Bible laying around (Old Testament as it is known in Christian circles) flip to Ezekiel Chapter 1, verse 24-ish...if goddamn Ezekiel wasn't looking at a UFO then he must have been trippin' balls !!   (Probably goes for a lot of miracles in the holy books, but that's a different tangent.)  Uh, it is my belief the chances of a race of advanced extraterrestrials making it to Earth are pretty close to nothing.  The distances between stars are vast....300 million light years or whatever.   Any being that decides to come check us out will have to have some pretty damn spiffy technology and would probably want to wipe us out immediately....not just harass our farmers and make crop circles when nobody is looking.   ;D    There is undoubtedly life on other planets but its stage of evolution compared to ours is probably at the protozoan level or maybe pond scum.  :P  If anything has evolved to something as complex as a potato bug, I'd be surprised.   At any rate, if life happened to take root on another earth-like planet with abundant water and all the right elements, etc...it's so far away they can't reach us and we won't reach them.   Call me a skeptic...but the universe is just too vast and evolution is just too fucking slow.   Thanks for starting a great thread.   Good stuff.   8)

I try to be respectful to all, but I must say this makes you seem a bit close minded.

IMO of course, If life exists outside of our view of space time, It doesn't necessarily mean THEY haven't figured out a way to travel faster, see further, and even advance thousands of years beyond us.

Crop circles.. I truly believe, these are messages in a language we can't quite yet understand. Could be warnings, could be historical documents, or simply another life form saying "hey, we do exists and we are watching."

I had a long conversation with a few family members about this.. There were some amazing theories.

One of which would only be interesting to those that believe in the biblical stuff, but basically his theory was god is another life form alive on another planet, he/they created all life supporting planets but with a few changes like the life form, bacteria and fungi, DNA, ect. And created them in different times. and just sits back and watches like a kid staring into his iguana cage. "Lets just see how they do."

Y'all get what i'm trying to explain?   

Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: s1llyn355 on July 11, 2013, 08:41 pm
I thought the whole topic of aliens and UFOs was just bullshit until 12 months ago.
Since then i've experienced a massive paradigm shift, one that i've not really been
able to share and discus openly with people for fear of being viewed as a wacko!

You don't need to have a first hand experience of alien abduction or a first hand
sighting of an aircraft doing a 90 degree turn at high velocity.  You just need to
consult the freely available evidence.

There is a collection of very good documentaries on UFO/Aliens on youtube.
Perhaps the best for newcomers to the topic is 'Out of the Blue'.
This documentary is interesting.. because it only cites the most credible
evidence from intelligent, responsible and (usually) high ranking witnesses.

And there is no shortage of intelligent, responsible witnesses...

John Mack was a psychiatrist and professor at Harvard Medical School.
He won the Pullizter Price in 1977.
He conducted years of research with patients claiming they had been abducted
by aliens, taken into alien craft and were the subject of medical examinations.
John Mack's conclusion was that these encounters were, quite simply, real.

David Jacobs is a history professor at Temple University.
He wrote a fascinating account of research results derived from subjects' alien
encounters under hypnosis.
The book is called 'The Threat'.. it's available on pirate bay (and bookshops)

Bob Lazar is a sincere, intelligent scientist who formerly worked at JPL
and more latterly worked for the US govt at Groom Lake (close to Area 51)
He claims to have been recruited onto a project to back engineer alien spacecraft.
Look for documentaries and interviews with him on youtube.

See this clearnet link for a list of 10 very high ranking and famous individuals
who openly claim that aliens exist:  mindpowernews.com/UFOBelievers.htm
This list includes American presidents, top scientists and military leaders.
These are exactly the people who you would expect to know the truth.

For evidence from non-high ranking, but nonetheless intelligent people,
try 'Into the Fringe' by Karla Turner (available on piratebay).
Try interviews on youtube, or books in pdf from by Bud Hopkins.
For a 'true' story of alien encounter, try 'Rachel's Eyes' by Helen Littrell.
For recent and ongoing research into this area look for 'Project Camelot'.

In summary, there is a burgeoning weight of evidence, from a multitude
of credible, intelligent, responsible and in many cases conservative sources.
Taking a position that it's all bullshit, just isn't tenable.

:)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: SealTeam6 on July 11, 2013, 08:42 pm
I WISH I could have a UFO experience!    I WANT to believe...like good ol' Fox Mulder's poster.   That's dating me a bit.  Oh well.   ::)   People have seen unidentified shit in the sky for ages and ages.  If you have your handy dandy Hebrew Bible laying around (Old Testament as it is known in Christian circles) flip to Ezekiel Chapter 1, verse 24-ish...if goddamn Ezekiel wasn't looking at a UFO then he must have been trippin' balls !!   (Probably goes for a lot of miracles in the holy books, but that's a different tangent.)  Uh, it is my belief the chances of a race of advanced extraterrestrials making it to Earth are pretty close to nothing.  The distances between stars are vast....300 million light years or whatever.   Any being that decides to come check us out will have to have some pretty damn spiffy technology and would probably want to wipe us out immediately....not just harass our farmers and make crop circles when nobody is looking.   ;D    There is undoubtedly life on other planets but its stage of evolution compared to ours is probably at the protozoan level or maybe pond scum.  :P  If anything has evolved to something as complex as a potato bug, I'd be surprised.   At any rate, if life happened to take root on another earth-like planet with abundant water and all the right elements, etc...it's so far away they can't reach us and we won't reach them.   Call me a skeptic...but the universe is just too vast and evolution is just too fucking slow.   Thanks for starting a great thread.   Good stuff.   8)

I try to be respectful to all, but I must say this makes you seem a bit close minded.

IMO of course, If life exists outside of our view of space time, It doesn't necessarily mean THEY haven't figured out a way to travel faster, see further, and even advance thousands of years beyond us.

Crop circles.. I truly believe, these are messages in a language we can't quite yet understand. Could be warnings, could be historical documents, or simply another life form saying "hey, we do exists and we are watching."

I had a long conversation with a few family members about this.. There were some amazing theories.

One of which would only be interesting to those that believe in the biblical stuff, but basically his theory was god is another life form alive on another planet, he/they created all life supporting planets but with a few changes like the life form, bacteria and fungi, DNA, ect. And created them in different times. and just sits back and watches like a kid staring into his iguana cage. "Lets just see how they do."

Y'all get what i'm trying to explain?   

I dig it!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 11, 2013, 09:12 pm
I didn't intend to come off sounding close-minded, because that's just about at the opposite end of the spectrum from where I stand.  I just try to look at all these things from a rational viewpoint.  If UFO's and such are so widespread how come I haven't seen anything, and very few of my known acquaintances or family members have seen anything?  Yes, I know a few very credible people who have witnessed "something' unexplained, but it remains just that...it's a leap to suggest that the "something" must have been an alien spacecraft.    If aliens were an advanced species here to monitor us or whatever, one would think they'd make their presence known to us unequivocally so there would be no doubt.   

I think humans have an inner yearning to believe in something outside of themselves, in some supernatural order.  The 20th century with it's intellectual, scientific,and philosophical advancements have made the traditional belief systems untenable.  There is no longer a rational way to explain the resurrection of Jesus Christ or to take seriously most of the notions of any of the Judeo-Christian faith structures.   In light of that, I think newer forms of religious longing and hopes have been transferred to other realms...like UFOology...the belief in ghosts and mediums, alien abduction stories, New Age wankery, Scientology,  etc.   I think it's just the way humans are wired.  We want to believe...it makes us feel better, less alone.  But switching out one form of irrational belief like Christianity for others more technologically savvy and modern like UFOology or Scientology is not the ticket to enlightenment either, in my opinion.

But despite all that, I am willing to change my mind given logical proof and evidence.  I'm not so sure the UFO enthusiasts have an open and shut case here however.   Just my two cents, thanks for the great thread...I think this stuff is worthy of discussion and fun to bandy about ideas.....cheers!!! 

Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: s1llyn355 on July 11, 2013, 10:17 pm
I didn't intend to come off sounding close-minded, because that's just about at the opposite end of the spectrum from where I stand.  I just try to look at all these things from a rational viewpoint.  If UFO's and such are so widespread how come I haven't seen anything....

But despite all that, I am willing to change my mind given logical proof and evidence.  I'm not so sure the UFO enthusiasts have an open and shut case here however.   Just my two cents, thanks for the great thread...I think this stuff is worthy of discussion and fun to bandy about ideas.....cheers!!!

Probably, like most people, you've not been looking. 
It's possible that you have seen something .. but because you weren't expecting to
see anything .. you simply dismissed the light in the sky that you saw
as a planet, or a star or a commercial air plane.

However i can link you to a documentary about a relatively recent incident
(several years ago) witnessed by thousands of people,
which was obviously 'covered up', with clearly laughable excuses
(flares, weather balloons, etc) and for which there is actual video footage.

The Phoenix Lights incident simply can not be explained away plausibly.
It occurred on 13rd March 1997 in Arizona.
See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fOJpwdnVuw
(or see any of the other documentaries on youtube about the Phoenix Lights)

The craft is described as being 'massive' and  V-shaped.
Some estimate it's size as 2 or 3 times the size of a football stadium, others
estimate 1 or 2 miles wide.  Further, the craft was noise-less.

Currently, human beings are unable to put "massive", noiseless objects into the skies.

This is evidence you can witness for yourself
(just watch the documentary).

I invite you to consider this evidence and supply
answers to the following simple questions:
What was this object ?
Who, or what, was flying it ?



Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 11, 2013, 10:38 pm
Thanks .... I am familiar with the video taped evidence of this weird phenomenon.  I am eager to take another look.   I did not discount this lightly at the time, since so many people in Phoenix saw -something.-   I will definitely review the footage again, it's been awhile...thanks a lot !!!!!    ;)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: goblin on July 11, 2013, 11:06 pm
Also there's the large body of video evidence showing one of the weirdest phenomena, flying humanoids, mostly from Mexico but also from the states and I believe other countries.

Do a search on youtube.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: The Missus on July 15, 2013, 02:27 am
I believe aliens and bigfoot go hand in hand.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Juggernog on July 16, 2013, 04:28 am
I didn't intend to come off sounding close-minded, because that's just about at the opposite end of the spectrum from where I stand.  I just try to look at all these things from a rational viewpoint.  If UFO's and such are so widespread how come I haven't seen anything, and very few of my known acquaintances or family members have seen anything?  Yes, I know a few very credible people who have witnessed "something' unexplained, but it remains just that...it's a leap to suggest that the "something" must have been an alien spacecraft.    If aliens were an advanced species here to monitor us or whatever, one would think they'd make their presence known to us unequivocally so there would be no doubt.   

I think humans have an inner yearning to believe in something outside of themselves, in some supernatural order.  The 20th century with it's intellectual, scientific,and philosophical advancements have made the traditional belief systems untenable.  There is no longer a rational way to explain the resurrection of Jesus Christ or to take seriously most of the notions of any of the Judeo-Christian faith structures.   In light of that, I think newer forms of religious longing and hopes have been transferred to other realms...like UFOology...the belief in ghosts and mediums, alien abduction stories, New Age wankery, Scientology,  etc.   I think it's just the way humans are wired.  We want to believe...it makes us feel better, less alone.  But switching out one form of irrational belief like Christianity for others more technologically savvy and modern like UFOology or Scientology is not the ticket to enlightenment either, in my opinion.

But despite all that, I am willing to change my mind given logical proof and evidence.  I'm not so sure the UFO enthusiasts have an open and shut case here however.   Just my two cents, thanks for the great thread...I think this stuff is worthy of discussion and fun to bandy about ideas.....cheers!!! 

You are right about loving these types of threads, though at times I feel like I have much to say, but lack the energy to type it.. Let me get my next shipment in. lol. IMO, you are also correct about the need to believe, although I also believe MANY people would also deny this. I try to think so far out of the box, I loose sight of the box. Great debate guys, keep em coming :)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 16, 2013, 08:13 pm
IMO, you are also correct about the need to believe, although I also believe MANY people would also deny this. I try to think so far out of the box, I loose sight of the box. Great debate guys, keep em coming :)

Agreed, a lot of people in this day and age -would- deny they have a need to BELIEVE.   However, many display ways of thinking that mimic belief in religious principles:   how about the faith in technology?   People feel that technology can save us from anything...from the depletion of fossil fuels, to climate change, etc.   "Oh, we don't have to worry about running out of oil...or clean water....technology will save us!!!  We will think of something!  "       Some of our smartest people can be the most detached from reality...these people who work at Google, and Microsoft, and some of our high-tech companies...believe moving pixels around on a computer screen will solve all of our problems.   How about the world of finance and banking? All those hot shots in Wall Street banks who sunk our economy.  They had a faith not rooted in reality about how money works and how the good times will just keep on rollin'............many modern day secularists who don't necessarily believe in the old time religions have created new Gods to worship to and have faith in..................it's all dangerous.    :P
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Juggernog on July 17, 2013, 09:59 pm
well put
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 18, 2013, 06:57 am
Being a man of many words, all I wish to say here is . . . . . "FUCK I LOVE this place sometimes when I see the open minds communicate and self moderate . . . and SHARE~! 8) 8) 8)

EVERYONE just got plus 1 from me ... LOTS of fantastic informative comments, which saved us a WHOLE LOT of trouble having to write ot sooner or letter, members like sylly  :D pretty said better than I could, exactly what i wwould have eventually said

I LOVE the sincerity of the thread ;D 8)   No trolls, no bulllshit, thanks everyone, I love you all :-*


mighty marijuana munted motek :o ;D 8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 18, 2013, 09:40 am
NO man YOU deserve the +1 for bringing good vibes and a positive disposition to the proceedings......  ;D 8)     I'm fairly new here, so it amazes me how cool guys like you who are just about giving people +1's can have any negative karma whatsoever.   Man, there have to be some black hearts on this forum....I'm glad they're not on this thread!!!!!      Peace and thanks................. :D
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 18, 2013, 11:38 am
heya glen thanks for the kind words and welcome matey, I liked what you had to say also very much

Yes this place is unique, like TSR and it;s up to "us" to "make it what we want"

We can have these cool debates, discussions whatever, and stay friendly and polite OR we can let the fuckhead trolls and shills get their fingers in the pie

This thread had stayed unpolluted with those idiots, even after 10 pages, which drew me to comment


I was new here once, as we ALL were,  and I think most of us have been through the feelings you all have ...  but rest assured, once 18/20 HAVE arrived, yoou'll be choollin with a whole 'new style oof anticipatione, tempered with patience' .... make yourselves busy rather than wait .... time can go so fuckin slow! :P :o


Take care all, keep up the thoughtful posts and help keep this place "ours" .... dont let the trolls succeed


Peace love and mung beans

m m m motek  8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: ChemCat on July 18, 2013, 12:58 pm
m m m motek  8)



Huggles   :)

Chem

 O0
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rocknessie on July 19, 2013, 02:01 am
I believe in the probability of aliens existing in the universe - be it before or after our time frame - is very high.

I believe the probably of aliens visiting earth is directly relational to how fucking high I am at the time.

Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Stringer on July 20, 2013, 05:26 am
Any of you see this?

Clearnet warning!
--------------------------------------

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ4IbXb1eG4

This was filmed in Turkey back in '08. The interesting part is that the footage (after being reviewed frame by frame) was deemed genuine and that whatever was seen was not anything that could be identified by humans. Thoughts?
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 20, 2013, 09:27 am
To me...hell, it could have been anything.  People can manipulate tape 8 million ways.   I didn't watch the whole 9 minutes, but what I saw looked pretty hokey.  There was nothing behind it but blackness, so there was nothing to differentiate it from anything else.   Nothing to scale it with.     It could have been superimposed.   Rather lame...sorry....not convincing, in the slightest.  I think day light footage is much more helpful...
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 20, 2013, 01:30 pm
Hey glen go to YT and look up this years "china ufo lands" or something

I'd like your opinion ;)









m m m motek
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: bankofgt on July 21, 2013, 02:56 am

People that need hard  core evidence look to the pyramids anyone with half a brain does not seriously believe they were man made structure?

I've mentioned it before and I'll mention it again the starchildproject.com is an extraterrestrial being that was found in mexico and it's DNA is not of this planet.

DNA is the mathematics of Biology..

I've never had an encounter of the third kind but I hear DMT is the next best thing... TBH I'm not much of a smoker although scoring some crack walking downtown Calgary 11th Ave in my Billabong Jumper did give me an instant bellringer

Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 21, 2013, 06:51 am
Here is an interesting read:

http://www.theblackvault.com/phpBB3/topic8668-10.html (Clearnet, duh)

Credible statements and observations about UFO's from international high ranking military officials and scientists.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: AirshipAdmiral on July 23, 2013, 08:58 am
I have a pothead friend who's actually built a flying saucer. He calls it elecrogravitics, and made this metal disk fly around the room like it weighed nothing.

Pretty trippy, man.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 23, 2013, 09:41 am
Ah HA!  I had a feeling those wily stoners were behind this whole UFO phenomenon!  I bet they're getting a big laugh at our expense.  Damn, I never thought of that when I used to smoke..... ;D
"The Dark Side of the Moon"........18 minute spaced out guitar solos.......night-light star constellation stickers on the ceilings....black lights, etc.   It's all starting to come together.   ;) 

Motek .... Rastaman.....I'll check out the links....thanks for sharing!!!!!!!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: AirshipAdmiral on July 23, 2013, 10:25 am
Ah HA!  I had a feeling those wily stoners were behind this whole UFO phenomenon!

I gotta tell you, the shit he says to attempt to explain how electrogravitics and quantum tunneling works sounds like the sort of thing you could only understand on a heroic dose of DMT+Ketamine+LSD.

It's almost like he's not human.... ;)

"I am not on drugs, I AM DRUGS!"
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 24, 2013, 02:34 am
Guys I am sick of all the lies from our government!!!  Of course there are extraterestrials!!!  They have been coming here for a looooooooong time.  Watch the documentary "Sirius"  it is INSANE!!!!  if that does not make you a believer, nothing will... it consists of over 400 highly ranked military and governmental officials around the world, and talk about their direct encounters! 

Please check this out guys, i need someone to talk about this with!! lol
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 24, 2013, 08:47 am
Ah HA!  I had a feeling those wily stoners were behind this whole UFO phenomenon!

I gotta tell you, the shit he says to attempt to explain how electrogravitics and quantum tunneling works sounds like the sort of thing you could only understand on a heroic dose of DMT+Ketamine+LSD.

It's almost like he's not human.... ;)

"I am not on drugs, I AM DRUGS!"



I've seen something like your mates flyer  :o  was it made of tinfoil and about 30-40cms in length?   Very light BUT they thing flies really well! 
I forget the name of the guy who first made them.

Also go to YT and look up vids for "The Hutchinson Effect"  this shit IS VERY REAL .... but I've a feeling "Hutchinson" himself has been made "an offer he cant refuse" . . .  you know, "keep your mouth shut OR die!"  simple!

   And so the couple of vids available are both very old (early 90's!!) and of poor quality .... plus it has been said that many "scientists" have 'tried to replicate his work, with no success"  ::) 

 Yeah, right!  Like any great thinker, you'd better shut them up before they actually share some good ideas!

Quote
also check out this  guy..i'm pretty sure he's the real deal there's plenty of vids about the "Hutchinson Effect"  pretty cool imo...
he apparently was paid a visit by the govt who confiscated all his gear and told him to stop his research, shit he's just some old hippy physicist who's stubled across some Tesla technology but I don't believe the vids are faked!

 It's pretty trippy what he can do, and as he says, this isn't 'unknown' technology!  Very 'zero point' ... Just most poeople dont know about it!   And he started it in the 70's! I'm sure a few good trips helped
 
    The Hutchison Effect     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO-1l0lXR_U
   
 And this is 'interesting' first made in 1983    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJus2ZKzmjY 
   and shows how many ideas are out there

motek LOVES their "sciences" of ALL kinds, and here's something I wrote for another forum that was discussing this shit!  So my opinion is....
 
Quote
As much as I 'respect' the Laws of Thermodynamics, I think there is still much to be discovered, some of which will 'change' these laws...
i.e. if/when our understanding of light, 'gravity' and 'dark matter' becomes clearer...there IS much to know that 'we' dont as yet.

  As a scientific concept, the existence of 'zero-point energy' is not controversial although the ability to harness it is!

"There's still a school of thought, that cannot believe, that atomic behavior is SO different than large scale behavior. I think that's a deep prejudice; it's a prejudice from being so used to large scale behaviors... and they're always seeking to find, or waiting for the day we discover that underneath the quantum mechanics, there's some mundane, ordinary balls hitting or particles moving and so on. I think they're gonna be defeated. I think nature's imagination, is so much greater than man's, she's never gonna let us -- relax!"
- Richard Feynman -

Me thinx we will be 'surprised' in the next 20 years...If we're still around!

I wonder how you would be recieved 'if' you could, say, take a laser pointer, or a  laptop, back to the Happy Daze of the 1950's and show the scientific establishment? 
 
OK...
       So the laws of thermodynamikz are, in other words:

   1 "In any isolated system, one cannot create new energy
    (first law of thermodynamics)
 
 2 The output power of heat engines is always smaller than the input heating power. The rest of the energy is removed as heat at ambient temperature. The efficiency (this is the produced power divided by the input heating power) has a maximum, given by the Carnot efficiency. It is always lower than one.

   3 The efficiency of real heat engines is even lower than the Carnot efficiency due to irreversible processes.

The statements 2 and 3 only apply to heat engines. Other types of engines, which convert e.g. mechanical into electromagnetic energy, can, in principle, operate with 100% efficiency."

   Quoting:
 "Now Victor Klimov and colleagues at the Alamos National Laboratory have designed nanocrystals with cores and shells made from different semiconductor materials in such a way that electrons and holes are physically isolated from each other. The scientists said in such engineered nanocrystals, only one exciton per nanocrystal is required for optical amplification. That, they said, opens the door to practical use in laser applications." 
["Scientists Create New Type of Nanocrystal," PHYSORG.COM, Nanotechnology, May 24, 2007"

This stuff needs to be evaluated with a critical eye, however dismissing these things out of hand is a little narrow minded imo, considering the current development of so many cutting edge technologies.

Brody, Herb. Victor Klimov in Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico has constructed a solar cell which can absorb the light of a specific wave length in such a way, that one photon can energize more than one electron. As soon as the electron absorbs a photon, it disappears for a very short moment into the quantum field. Being in the virtual state the electron can borrow energy from the vacuum and thereafter appears again in our reality. Now the electron can energize up to 7 other electrons. This leads to a theoretical coefficient of performance (COP) of 700%. A COP = 200% can be readily achieved and it has been. The experiment has also been replicated successfully by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden Colorado.
[Herb Brody, "Solar Power - Seriously Souped Up." New Scientist, May 27, 2006, p 45]
    Quoting:
  “Make solar cells as small as a molecule; and you get more than you bargained for. Could this be the route to limitless clean power?"]
   
 http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/100608.htm

It's well known that things tend to get weird in the quantum world...which Newton neither knew of OR considered
 
 What about Nikola Tesla: best known for inventing alternating Current (AC), Whose Subsequent inventions and theories about free energy and wireless power transmission were suppressed. He also invented the radio, although most textbooks credit Marconi.  Reading about his high voltage experiments suggest he was already onto another world changing discovery re: "freely available energy".
 
 Nicola Tesla was a rather fastidious bloke and I highly doubt he would have fabricated such things...he had NO 'reason' to do so, he had already 'proved' himself and just wanted to "Improve" what he did...and one of his main goals was to provide the World with unlimited free/cheap energy supply to 'the people' he was a 'utilitarian humanitarian'...which many businessmen didn't appreciate!

IMO this story is far too widespread and well reported to be bullshit.

"At the age of 70, and using his own private funds, Tesla built what is now believed to be the first known "energy receiver" (gravitational energy converter) that actually operated a motorless vehicle. The car was a large, heavy Pierce Arrow, one of the luxury cars of that era.

The engine was removed and replaced with an electric motor.

Under the dashboard, Tesla installed his energy receiver. Tesla said the converter produced enough power to illuminate an entire house as well as run the car. The car was tested for a week and effortlessly reached top speeds of 90 mph.

The performance data showed that besides using no fuel and producing no pollution, the response of the Arrow was at least equal to that of a gasoline engine. For the aging Tesla, this car was just a hobby that would not be taken seriously.

Tesla knew this advancement would be no more accepted than his invention to provide free energy to every home without wires. Speculation suggests that most probably the same technology was used for the device installed in the Arrow.

Thus, he would not discuss the Arrow’s technical achievements with engineers, theoretical scientists or companies almost without exception. Interestingly, only a few months after the tests were completed, the Pierce Arrow stopped all production forever.

It is believed by many that Tesla was the first, but not the last, to actually build a receiver that harnessed gravitational field energy, which is now understood to be a direct derivative of Tachyon Energy."

http://www.zeropointsolution.com/2009/12/x.html

And then there was this guy...

Dr. T. Henry Moray of Salt Lake City, Utah is one of the gifted warriors. Working against an ignorant and money-oriented government and business society that suppresses the possibilities of a future without oil and nuclear energies, Dr. Moray continued until his death at gaining support for a revolutionary device. Dr. Moray was greatly impressed by the works of Tesla and in the 1930s was able to produce a 60 lb. converter that generated 50 kilowatts. Dr. Moray found the solution to our growing need for fuel.

These small converters could produce electricity without pollution or any electrical input. They could be used to run almost everything. On July 13, 1931, Dr. Moray applied to the U.S. Patent Office, and just like Tesla, he had successfully harnessed the Tachyon field which permeated everything and then converted it into usable electrical power.

The problem was that Dr. Moray could not prove where the source of energy came from, and in their infinite wisdom, the U.S. Patent Office rejected his device not because it didn't work (because it did), but rather because he could not prove the source of the 

The fate of Dr. Moray comes straight out of a comic book. He was harassed by everyone who could exploit or bury his invention including agents of the government. On March 2nd, 1940, Dr. Moray was shot in his own laboratory. After that he always carried a gun. His car had bulletproof windows, and yet the attacks still came.

Up until his death in 1974 he gave lectures and talks to small interested groups. The technical questions that could not be answered then still elude us today. Dr. Moray's son took over where his father left off at trying to get financing and answers to why his devices work.
 
"There is enough energy inside the space in this empty cup to
boil all the oceans of the world."
  This is a fact well known to
the scientific community, and was, for example, a favorite
quote of Nobel Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman.
 
http://www.electrogravity.com/

"The first place electrical science went wrong is when electrical phenomena which were not subject to unambiguous mathematical interpretation were simply omitted from electrical curricula."   



However the US govt HAS "shut them ALL down" saying to release such information is a "national security risk!" and that they are not 'allowed' to do so, or face extremely severe penalties!

And here  is part of  a  "notice"  (WARNING!!) from the US govt to an "inventor" of a unique 'over unity' electric motor (one that PUTS OUT MORE POWER THAN IT CONSUMES!) of which their are AT LEAST a DOZEN peer reviewed, "functioning AND patented" devices which DO the same!!!!


Quote
KEEPING INVENTORS QUIET

Adam Trombly knows about the Secrecy Act, In the early 1980's Trombly and another young scientist, Joseph Kahn, Ph.D., naively believed that the "experts" would welcome their space-energy invention. (See part ll. for more information on space energy.) However, hen Trombly and Kahn applied for a patent, the United States Patent Office notified the Department of Defense. Instead of congratulations, Trombly and Kahn received a secrecy order. They were ordered not to talk about their invention to anybody, not to write about it, and even to stop working on it. They certainly couldn't tell the media.

If you were an inventor trying to patent an important new-energy discovery. You might receive a secrecy order along the lines of the one reproduced here. According to information obtained under the Freedom of Information act by the Federation of American Scientists, the Pentagon placed 774 patent applications under secrecy orders in 1991 -- up from 290 in 1979 -- and 506 of these orders were imposed on inventions by private companies. The government has standing gag orders on several thousand inventions. The following order, issued in the 1980's, was obtained by inventor ken MacNeil of Georgia and revealed in 1983.

How many people know this shit goes on? 
IMO not too many, and 99.9999% dont care!
 
Why is an efficient motor a National Security risk? 
Oh that's right!...terrorists would use them to....blow something up, like the WTC maybe?

Get too good at this stuff and here's what to expect...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"SECRECY ORDER

(Title 35, United States Code [1952], sections 181-188)

NOTICE: To the applicant above named, his heirs, and any and all his assignees, attorneys and agents, hereinafter designated principals.

You are hereby notified that your application as above identified has been found to contain subject matter, the unauthorized disclosure of which might be detrimental to the national security and you are ordered in nowise to publish or disclose the invention or any material information with respect thereto, including hitherto unpublished details of the subject matter of said application, in any way to any person not cognizant of the invention prior to the date of the order, including any employee of the principals, but to keep the same secret except by written consent first obtained of the Commissioner of Patents, under the penalties of 35 U.S.C. [1952] 182, 186.

Any other application already filed or hereafter filed which contains any significant part of the subject matter of the above identified application falls within the scope of this order. If such other application does not stand under a secrecy order, it and the common subject matter should be brought to the attention of the Security Group, Licensing and Review, Patent Office.

If, prior to the issuance of the secrecy order, any significant part of the subject matter has been revealed to any person, the principals shall promptly inform such person of the secrecy order and the penalties of improper disclosure. However, if such part of the subject matter was disclosed to any person in a foreign country or foreign national in the U.S., the principals shall not inform such person of the secrecy order, but instead shall promptly furnish to the Commissioner of Patents the following information to the extent not already furnished: date of disclosure, name and address of the disclose, identification of such part: and any authorization by a U.S. Government agency to export such part. If the subject matter is included many foreign patent application for patent this should be identified. The principals shall comply with any related instructions to the Commissioner.

This order shall not be construed in any way to mean that the government has adopted or contemplates adoption of the alleged invention disclosed in this application, nor is it any indication of the value of the invention.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why is an efficient motor a National Security risk? 
Oh that's right!...terrorists would use them to....blow something up, like the WTC maybe?

Get too good at this stuff and here's what to expect...

There's been several successful 'peer reviewed' 'over unity motors'  however as long as there are Big Oil interests...we won't be seeing this stuff.

But hey don't mind me...ima just gonna polish me tinfoily headgear for better reception! 
Brasso worksa treat!
But remember ... HCL with a millipoof of Hg salt is better if you want to amalgamate your knowledge!

there's just SO MUCH to know!  :o  It's wonderful  ;D 8)

hmmmm  much much more motek   :o  :D   8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 24, 2013, 10:25 am
Motek!!!!!!!!!!   You crack me up brother....!  That's the longest post I've ever seen.....it's going to take me a few tries before getting thru that mofo.....Ha.   Good stuff man, cheers..... 8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 24, 2013, 10:49 am
My pleasure Glen, knowledge IS Power,  and I want my friends here to ba as 'empowered as possible"

Go hard brother, glad to see you find it interesting, I find it mind blowing and very sad at how long we've been decieved and HOW we've bee decieved, as I explain


enjoy bro +1


m m m motek
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: PinkFloyd86 on July 24, 2013, 10:51 am
the universe is so vast and endless that it is in the realm of possiblity that aliens exist.  Plus since I drop a lot of acid those lights on the side of highways always look like ufo's landing haha
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: AirshipAdmiral on July 26, 2013, 02:39 am
Watch the documentary "Sirius"  it is INSANE!!!!

It's Sirius Business.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 26, 2013, 03:37 am
More knowledge Motek?

what does this mean:

But hey don't mind me...ima just gonna polish me tinfoily headgear for better reception!
Brasso worksa treat!
But remember ... HCL with a millipoof of Hg salt is better if you want to amalgamate your knowledge!

there's just SO MUCH to know!  :o  It's wonderful  ;D 8)

hmmmm  much much more motek   :o  :D   8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 26, 2013, 04:25 am
this is ^^^^ A poor attempt at a joke with chemistry references!

sorry! lol!


  motek!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: PureEnergy on July 27, 2013, 12:19 am
Aliens..... YES!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 27, 2013, 12:45 am
I am skeptical about aliens...but why do so many people report having communication with different alien races, etc. while under the influence of DMT ???  That's puzzling.  A lot of the experience reports have very similar themes and encounters.   BIZARRO, MAN!    :o      I'm too old to try it myself, would probably poop the bed.   ;)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: postrex on July 27, 2013, 12:51 am
I think it is pretty ridiculous to assume humanity is the only intelligent life in the universe.  A lack of other life is simply improbable given the vastness of the universe.  Can you communicate with alien life while on DMT?  You can definitely see some amazing things and feel very connected to far off parts of the universe, that much is true.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 27, 2013, 01:04 am
Well one thing to consider about intelligent life....is that it probably -does- exist.....but at what level??   Most likely at levels far simpler than we are........like pond scum.   Now it's possible whole races of beings have evolved and killed each other off millions of years before we came on the scene.   My guess is if anything out there is more advanced than us...it would have figured out how to get here, or fucked with us somehow by now.   Our SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) program has yielded zilch in 50 years of emitting  radio signals, electromagnetic rays, etc. for other advanced civilizations to hear and respond to.   However, that is assuming these advanced civilizations can interpret radio/electromagnetic signals......... :P
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on July 27, 2013, 02:39 am
So many assumptions, so little time  :P



What about 'transdimensional beings' ??   I guess they're the ones you get down with on DMT  :-\



hmmmm motek  :)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 27, 2013, 04:17 am
I think it is pretty ridiculous to assume humanity is the only intelligent life in the universe.  A lack of other life is simply improbable given the vastness of the universe.  Can you communicate with alien life while on DMT?  You can definitely see some amazing things and feel very connected to far off parts of the universe, that much is true.

AGREED
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 27, 2013, 04:19 am
I think it is pretty ridiculous to assume humanity is the only intelligent life in the universe.  A lack of other life is simply improbable given the vastness of the universe.  Can you communicate with alien life while on DMT?  You can definitely see some amazing things and feel very connected to far off parts of the universe, that much is true.


AGREED  especially the part about DMT, everytime i do it lately i have been in contact with the same 1 or 2 entities...It is really WIERD!  Last time he was trying to show me some kind of like model of something... he was holding it up in front of my face. 
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: postrex on July 27, 2013, 04:49 am
Well one thing to consider about intelligent life....is that it probably -does- exist.....but at what level??   Most likely at levels far simpler than we are........like pond scum.   Now it's possible whole races of beings have evolved and killed each other off millions of years before we came on the scene.   My guess is if anything out there is more advanced than us...it would have figured out how to get here, or fucked with us somehow by now.   Our SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) program has yielded zilch in 50 years of emitting  radio signals, electromagnetic rays, etc. for other advanced civilizations to hear and respond to.   However, that is assuming these advanced civilizations can interpret radio/electromagnetic signals......... :P

The SETI program is kind of a joke.  It presumes that an alien race is trying to communicate with us by broadcasting a VERY strong, narrow-band, and continuous signal in the 1-9GHZ range (microwaves).  The search range is so narrow-band in fact (less then 1hz wide).  Almost all long-range human-made transmissions are spread-spectrum, wide-band, or at a minimum narrow-band several khz wide.  So what are the odds some alien race is going to be aggressively beaming a signal that we don't even produce hah?  Never-the-less, an interesting idea, and maybe someday an alien race will decide to blast a .5hz wide pulse at 1420 MHz (where most of the SETI project's scanning efforts are done).

Anyway... who knows how intelligent life out there is.  Personally, I doubt that there are civilizations advanced enough to be exploring the universe (or even venturing outside of their respective solar systems); but, I highly doubt mankind are the most intelligent creatures in existence.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 28, 2013, 12:39 pm
So many assumptions, so little time  :P



What about 'transdimensional beings' ??   I guess they're the ones you get down with on DMT  :-\



hmmmm motek  :)
So many assumptions, so little time  :P



What about 'transdimensional beings' ??   I guess they're the ones you get down with on DMT  :-\



hmmmm motek  :)

They have to be some kind of beings, I know this for a fact, because i have communicated with them...intense experience!

And you know what is really wierd, is that i took a picture of straight up in the sky, about 4 days ago, and what showed up when my camera flashed, SCARED THE SHIT OUT OF ME!!!  It looked like a big blob!  I fuckin ran into my house and slammed the door shut, and when i built the confidence, i looked at my camera, and i had caught about 1/3 of it on the picture...it is pretty scary looking.  if i had a way to put a picture on somewhere securely, i would show you guys!


Well one thing to consider about intelligent life....is that it probably -does- exist.....but at what level??   Most likely at levels far simpler than we are........like pond scum.   Now it's possible whole races of beings have evolved and killed each other off millions of years before we came on the scene.   My guess is if anything out there is more advanced than us...it would have figured out how to get here, or fucked with us somehow by now.   Our SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) program has yielded zilch in 50 years of emitting  radio signals, electromagnetic rays, etc. for other advanced civilizations to hear and respond to.   However, that is assuming these advanced civilizations can interpret radio/electromagnetic signals......... :P
 

Are you kidding me, They HAVE made contact, in many other way, you seriously need to do your research yourself, because i promise you that your government will not help you figure it out with any stupid SETI program, shit they have been lying for over 60 years and covering up.  It is crazy, all the evidence we sieze to acknowledge. 

Watch "SIRIUS"  seriously
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: aussiepp on July 28, 2013, 01:11 pm
It's simply impossible that we are the most intelligent organisms in the universe, or that we're alone for that matter.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 28, 2013, 06:28 pm
I sure hope we're not the most intelligent forms of life in the universe. Mankind is so hellbent on destruction. We do have our moments, as a species, but if you look at human history as a whole, its mostly just wars and destruction. Surely this can't be the pinnacle of intelligence
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: ChemCat on July 28, 2013, 07:08 pm
mmmmm.......we're not alone  ;)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Chicagodogs on July 28, 2013, 10:44 pm
I just watched on YouTube both parts of "Sirius". That was the best documentary on UFOs I've ever seen. Thanks for suggesting it.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 29, 2013, 02:01 am
I just watched on YouTube both parts of "Sirius". That was the best documentary on UFOs I've ever seen. Thanks for suggesting it.


I am sooo glad you watched it man!!!  It blew my mind!  I recommend it to all of humanity!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Jarno9 on July 29, 2013, 02:12 am
Not meaning to derail the thread and talk about DMT instead, but the one time I've done it I certainly met at least 2, probably 3 entities. The two I actually "saw" we females looked more or less human. I sort of had a bad trip for various reasons owing to lack of experience, so the entities' attitude was mostly that of "silly boy, he wasn't ready", although one of them kept coming up close to me as if to work out what sort of person I was. The other seemed less interested. Then I'm quite sure there was a third entity, which was a male and a fair bit older than the other two. I didn't actually see him but he was telling me I was freaking out and that I should calm down, but he gave up with that then more or less told me to ride it out and I'd be fine in 5 minutes or so.

This was like 3 months ago, totally surreal, I look forward to trying it again and not making the same mistakes that caused me to be unable to relax (there were two other people in the room with me who didn't know any better and kept talking to each other as I was tripping which caused me to get extremely agitated, and I was sat in an awkward, uncomfortable position). Still far less scary than 60x salvia!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: mrguymann on July 29, 2013, 03:41 am
I suppose it gives a certain sense of security to have everything in your world defined  and  dismiss those things that donr fit into  your parameters as   the accounts of liars , idiots and rants of people who are somehow mentally defective. If you dont want anything to challenge your understanding of what we believe as truth, you can easily  dismiss anything  you wanted  because it cant measure up to your standards.

When I saw  those , objects? Events? Phantom? Hallucinations? -( if it were a hallucination  the second witness at each  occurrence will describe a very similar hallucination- is it possible for two different people to have the same hallucination?)  It is hard to describe  to someone without sounding like a babbling idiot because it appearance and actions  were so far out  from hose things I know as being earthly , or human,It has a very strange effect on a person also. Like you r adrenaline has been overloaded , and you need to do something of importance , but you cant seem to manage tying your own shoes , describing it to ,someone who didnt see it,  you have to liken it to things that are of our earth, or hard to in-vision like one of the best ways I could describe  part  was " it was triangular  moving , at a mathematical pace, varying but like it  go in varying speeds but you could see that they were  all dividable by 6  (18, 24, 6, 12t.) it was like pixel-ated fire and it never touched the ground and always remained  level eventhough it was going upon  the summit points of very hilly terrain. And foo some reason me and the person next to me could not take our eyes off of it, nor did we even move or speak until it had  left our feild of vision, which was at least  several miles from our vantage. The next 24 hrs I spent isn a state of disbelief , and a type of exhilarating stupor. Didnt think anyone was believing  me and what i saw as true.  After those 24 hrs, I didnt speak of it, or look up at the night sky for a couple years. It had hit me with a blinding flash of brilliant light - like it were the light  of 1000s of white Christmas sparkly  lights  and diamondcut prisms When i got too close to the object it was , before changing into the triangle, pixel-fire thing.

I dont know if it was a craft, or evem if it were an actual living  entity, or spirit that shifted momentarily into our dimension,, had nothing that  a human would incorporate in design,  like handles ot fit to a human's dimensions,  i could definitely tell, no human had   dreamed it up, much less design and manufacture, or had amade anything that was used in it's creation. It was cold , and it definitely was intelligent. Alot, I cant  draw a image ion your head  with  the words and descriptions i can give you- its just not possible. I know for sure I saw something fucking amazing- and either  you believe or you  dont....... fuck that; I gave you as honest  report as you'll ever hear, IT IS NOT BULLSHIT and I AM NOT OF A DIMINISHED MENTAL COMPETENCE_  or tell me I saw something else like electrons  excited in a pocket of  gas, because thats goddamn insulting.

anyways someone was asking if i could write about one of those 2 experiences,and i hope u get a chance to read it- i may not be able to express  it better than it was more than amazing- and I swear to  its honesty as  if this were my gospel. Theres so much more out there than we are aware.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: soviet on July 29, 2013, 07:25 am
I suppose it gives a certain sense of security to have everything in your world defined  and  dismiss those things that donr fit into  your parameters as   the accounts of liars , idiots and rants of people who are somehow mentally defective. If you dont want anything to challenge your understanding of what we believe as truth, you can easily  dismiss anything  you wanted  because it cant measure up to your standards.

When I saw  those , objects? Events? Phantom? Hallucinations? -( if it were a hallucination  the second witness at each  occurrence will describe a very similar hallucination- is it possible for two different people to have the same hallucination?)  It is hard to describe  to someone without sounding like a babbling idiot because it appearance and actions  were so far out  from hose things I know as being earthly , or human,It has a very strange effect on a person also. Like you r adrenaline has been overloaded , and you need to do something of importance , but you cant seem to manage tying your own shoes , describing it to ,someone who didnt see it,  you have to liken it to things that are of our earth, or hard to in-vision like one of the best ways I could describe  part  was " it was triangular  moving , at a mathematical pace, varying but like it  go in varying speeds but you could see that they were  all dividable by 6  (18, 24, 6, 12t.) it was like pixel-ated fire and it never touched the ground and always remained  level eventhough it was going upon  the summit points of very hilly terrain. And foo some reason me and the person next to me could not take our eyes off of it, nor did we even move or speak until it had  left our feild of vision, which was at least  several miles from our vantage. The next 24 hrs I spent isn a state of disbelief , and a type of exhilarating stupor. Didnt think anyone was believing  me and what i saw as true.  After those 24 hrs, I didnt speak of it, or look up at the night sky for a couple years. It had hit me with a blinding flash of brilliant light - like it were the light  of 1000s of white Christmas sparkly  lights  and diamondcut prisms When i got too close to the object it was , before changing into the triangle, pixel-fire thing.

I dont know if it was a craft, or evem if it were an actual living  entity, or spirit that shifted momentarily into our dimension,, had nothing that  a human would incorporate in design,  like handles ot fit to a human's dimensions,  i could definitely tell, no human had   dreamed it up, much less design and manufacture, or had amade anything that was used in it's creation. It was cold , and it definitely was intelligent. Alot, I cant  draw a image ion your head  with  the words and descriptions i can give you- its just not possible. I know for sure I saw something fucking amazing- and either  you believe or you  dont....... fuck that; I gave you as honest  report as you'll ever hear, IT IS NOT BULLSHIT and I AM NOT OF A DIMINISHED MENTAL COMPETENCE_  or tell me I saw something else like electrons  excited in a pocket of  gas, because thats goddamn insulting.

anyways someone was asking if i could write about one of those 2 experiences,and i hope u get a chance to read it- i may not be able to express  it better than it was more than amazing- and I swear to  its honesty as  if this were my gospel. Theres so much more out there than we are aware.

"I have no fucking idea what I saw, but I saw something, therefore aliens or spirits." You didn't take any pictures or videos? Oh, how surprising. You say "i could definitely tell, no human had   dreamed it up, much less design and manufacture, or had amade anything that was used in it's creation", but who the fuck are you to say that? Could you show us your credentials? Are you the world's authority on human technology? Or perhaps you're the world's authority on natural sciences, which enables you to discount the possibility of what you saw being natural phenomena. Judging by your grammar you're neither.

You and your friend saw something. Neither of you know what it was. That's it.

Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Hungry ghost on July 29, 2013, 08:30 am
Soviet, you seem to be the only contributor to this thread with a scientific mindset; I salute you. Obviously everyone else will accuse you of being close minded. This is the standard response from people who don't like having their elaborate speculations questioned.

Phoenix lights (taken from Skeptoid podcast /blog; a good place to start if you are genuinely interested in learning the truth behind many of these paranormal phenomena):


     "Tonight we're going to grab our shotguns, jump into our rambling pickup truck, and chase a massive triangular UFO as it courses silently across the American southwest, for we are (once again) on the trail of the infamous Phoenix Lights.

Perhaps it's the recent 10-year anniversary of the event, or perhaps it's the former Arizona governor's recent confession that he believes they were actually an alien spacecraft, but the Phoenix Lights have been back in the news again. It was the night of March 13, 1997 when a slanting line of bright lights appeared one-by-one in the sky beyond Phoenix, Arizona. Hundreds of photographs and videos were taken by observers throughout the region, making it among the most documented UFO sightings ever. The incident came as no surprise to anyone at nearby Luke Air Force Base (named for World War I ace Lt. Frank Luke), which operates the Barry M. Goldwater Range where a flight of four A-10 ground attack aircraft were jettisoning leftover illumination flares. The flares are typically dropped at lower altitudes, where they are not visible from Phoenix, due to the intervening Sierra Estrella mountain range.

The Phoenix Lights episode is a running joke in the Air Force and especially at the 104th Fighter Squadron of the Maryland Air National Guard, whose aircraft were involved. They don't have desert bombing ranges in Maryland, so the pilots go to places like Arizona for some of their training. The Air National Guard is the Air Force's reserve unit, similar to the Army Reserve.

But the rest of us regular people didn't know anything about this. We all just looked up into the sky, and saw something unlike anything we'd ever seen before. I remember watching it on the news with my wife. I remember my sense of amazement at witnessing something truly unexplainable: Could this actually be alien spacecraft?

Over the next couple of weeks, corroborating reports flooded in, of triangle-shaped craft from as far away as Henderson, Nevada cruising over the southwest, to Prescott, over Phoenix, and off toward Tucson. UFO's are reported nearly every day in most areas by someone, so it's to be expected that the normal background noise of typical reports would be given special attention during a large-scale episode like the Phoenix Lights. And, obviously, such a furor offers an easy opportunity for any clown to go on the news to say that a triangle-shaped craft passed over his house on its way to Phoenix. What would have been truly unusual and shocking is if there had been no other reports from nearby areas. Too bad none of these people owned cameras.

Lots of people in the Phoenix area did own cameras, and they all filmed exactly the same thing. Hundreds of photographs, hours of video, and all of it showing a line of lights in the sky above the city lights of Phoenix, looking toward the Sierra Estrella mountains and the Goldwater Range. Not a single photograph or frame of video showed anything else. This was the most documented UFO sighting in American history, and every last photograph showed exactly the same thing. Plenty of verbal reports told very different stories over the weeks following the incident, but every single photograph showed a simple line of lights beyond the Sierra Estrella.

As has been thoroughly documented, including by a Fox television special, the moment that each light disappeared on the evidential videotapes corresponded exactly with the horizon line of the Sierra Estrella mountains, proving that the lights were behind the mountains, and not over Phoenix.

Here's a story that's typical of the many found on the Internet, from Jan Markham of Gilbert Arizona:

    My husband and I were out flying that night in the vicinity of the Stanfield VOR. We clearly saw the flares to our west, over the Goldwater range - a familiar sight to my husband. However, there was a second set of lights that night - the V-shaped formation that was initially shown on film by the local TV networks. That formation, whatever it was, flew directly over us at a much higher altitude than the flares. At the time, we thought it was some sort of military flight, but that never appears to have been acknowledged. I am sure someone knows the truth about those lights, but, please, don't insult our intelligence by telling us they were flares.

Let's spend a moment examining the flare said to be used in the incident. The A-10 drops two different kinds of flare: a countermeasure flare, used to confuse heat-seeking missiles; and an illumination flare, used to light up the ground at night either for the benefit of troops on the ground or to light up a target so it can be visually targeted for weapons release. The illumination flare is the one we're talking about. It's called the LUU-2 air-deployed high intensity illumination flare. It's made by defense contractor ATK Thiokol. The variant in use at the time of the Phoenix Lights incident was the LUU-2B/B. It weights 30 pounds and its canister is three feet long and 5 inches in diameter. Once it ejects its parachute and ignites, it puts out 1.8 million candela for 4 minutes, or 1.6 million candela for 5 minutes. It falls in its parachute at 8.3 feet per second. At 1000 feet above the ground, it lights up an area half a kilometer wide at 5 lux. The LUU-2's pyrotechnic candle burns magnesium, which produces an intense white light. Because it burns so hot, it also ends up burning the aluminum canister, which adds an orange hue to the light for most of the burn. About halfway through the burn, enough of the canister has been burned away that it actually lightens the load and it falls more and more slowly. Once it's almost completely out, an explosive bolt disconnects the parachute and the flare drops, burning out completely sometime hopefully before landing on someone's wood shingle roof.

The Barry M. Goldwater Range is a big place — over 4,000 square miles — and the Phoenix metropolitan area is even larger, about 14,000 square miles. The distance between the two is usually cited at 60 to 80 miles, but as we can see, that's going to depend on a lot. We do know a little about where the A-10's were flying inside the Goldwater Range. The guy who was in the lead A-10, Lt. Col. Ed Jones, says they were near Gila Bend when they ejected the leftover flares, and Gila Bend is just about exactly 50 miles from downtown Phoenix. Mesa and Scottsdale are farther away, so let's take a super rough stab at it, be conservative, and say that the average observer of the Phoenix Lights was 70 miles away from the A-10's. The brightness of the LUU-2 seen from 70 miles away is roughly equal to a star with an apparent magnitude of somewhere between -3.2 and -4.3, which is significantly brighter than any stars visible in the sky, but not as bright as the full moon. The magnitude scale was developed by the astronomer Hipparchus, where +1 represents the brightest star in the sky, and +6 represents the faintest. -3.2 is quite a bit brighter than the brightest star. The noonday sun has an apparent magnitude of -26.7. Thanks to the guys on the Bad Astronomy and JREF forums who helped me with these calculations.

Yet another wrench in the machinery is that all of the above is dramatically affected by atmospheric conditions. It wouldn't take much haze for absorption and scatter to obscure flares completely at that distance, and in the clear conditions predominant over Phoenix, lights are often distorted by an inversion layer, an effect that you can sometimes see when the landing lights of aircraft approaching an airport appear much bigger than they actually are. So we have a computation based on multiple unknown variables, any of which could wildly throw off our results. The one thing we can say with certainty is that the approximate brightness of the Phoenix Lights as seen in the photographs and videos does fall well within the wide range of brightness that's possible from LUU-2B/B flares at 70 miles.


Here's one final fly in the ointment. The photographic evidence itself is not necessarily a valid representation of how the lights would have looked to the naked eye: Still and video cameras are of varying quality and need specific settings to capture lights in the night sky. We have little or no information about the settings used in most of the available photographic and video evidence. Much has been made of a ham-handed spectral analysis of Phoenix Lights photographs and videos by prominent UFO advocate Jim Dilletoso, whose conclusions have been widely discredited since you can't even remotely do a spectral analysis of lights in a photograph and expect there to be any useful similarity to the spectrum of the actual light source, any more than you could expect a photograph of an orange to smell like an orange. Dilletoso found that, based on the colors in photographs, the Phoenix Lights could not have been from any known earthly source. Note that among Dilletoso's other claims to fame is having spent six weeks at an underground alien base in Dulce, New Mexico. Judge his credibility for yourself.

The UFO crowd and conspiracy theorists point out other problems with the flare explanation, most notably that a public relations officer at Luke Air Force Base contacted that night didn't happen to know that flares had been dropped, and so had no explanation for the lights. For this to be a real problem, you have to assume that everyone involved in training exercises immediately communicates every tactical detail of what they do, and their own personal estimation of its possible consequences, to the base PR officer. The officer also said that the Air Force had no operations over Phoenix that night, which was of course completely true. The A-10's were a great distance away and well inside their Military Operating Area airspace. This statement has been taken by the conspiracy theorists as evidence of a conspiracy, so discussing it is just beating a dead horse. The only other dissenting evidence put forward is the mass of eyewitness accounts following the triangle shaped craft on its journey across the southwest. Unfortunately all such stories are in direct contradiction with all photographic evidence. These witnesses had as much opportunity to document their sightings as did the people in Phoenix. The fact that they did not must be met, unfortunately, with a shrug. There are simply too many other reasons they might be saying what they're saying, and their reports are precisely contradicted by a mountain of hard evidence.

The Phoenix Lights were flares. Deal with it."



          As far as life existing elsewhere in the universe goes, the drake equation is fairly convincing, the trouble is that we don't have enough information about the likelihood of life emerging, given the right conditions. We only have one data point: ourselves, here on earth.
         From earths history we can see that life appeared once the proper ingredients were available on the primeval planet, but we have no way of knowing whether ths was an inevitable result of organic chemistry, or a vanishingly unlikely coincidence.
        So, given that one of the terms in the drake equation is completely unknown, it is impossible to use it to draw any convincing conclusions about life elsewhere in the universe.
        (I'm assuming you have all heard of the Drake equation, if not Google it)

       I really don't have an opinion on whether intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe. It could swarm everywhere, countless civilizations rising and falling constantly. Or it could just be us. Either concept is absolutely mind blowing.

        What I do know is we have no convincing evidence that aliens are visiting us here in earth. All the famous cases paraded on the internet by true believers turn out, upon skeptical investigation to turn out just like the Phoenix lights case above.

       Yes, many reliable witnesses have seen unusual things in the sky....this doesn't mean we should jump to 'alien spaceships' as the explanation.

        And as we progress further into an age where everyone carries high resolution recording equipment in their pocket all the time, its becoming harder to explain why no convincing footage exists (this also apply to many other 'paranormal' phenomena like Bigfoot)

       If aliens with sufficiently advanced technology to overcome the vast interstellar distances (and the relativistic effects of them) were visiting us, I don't think there would be any doubt. They would suck up our oceans with a straw, extract any valuable minerals and either ignore or enslave us. I don't think they'd sneak about scaring farmers.

      You can call me close minded, but I'm not. I'm just genuinely interested in the truth. I used to eat up all these UFO stories and stuff; they are fascinating.

      Take the pyramids. I used to have an interesting theory:

           Imagine you are an alien, stranded on earth 6000 years ago. Your craft has been destroyed beyond repair, and you know that it might be centuries before any rescue party arrives., and you'll be long dead by then. So you decide to preserve your corpse (and your equivalent of DNA) so your rescuers can reanimate you or clone you.
         The local tribes worship you as a god due to your ssuperior technology, which they percieve as magic, so you instruct them in how to preserve your corpse.
         But how will the rescuers find your body? You decide to build a huge, unmistakeable landmark out of stone to house your preserved corpse.... enlisting the help of locals, you build the first pyramid.
          After a few hundred years, your corpse is retrieved, cloned and your personality reinserted. You fly off into the sky, leaving the locals to cobble together a religion based on pyramids and mummification.

         Unfortunately for this theory, we have plenty of evidence for how the pyramids were built, and how Egyptian culture developed.

         Anyway, I've written enough.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 29, 2013, 09:28 am
Hungry Ghost, for the record, I thought I was being skepical too... :D  just didn't want to be left out... :'(  or maybe I wasn't sufficiently skeptical.......now onwards to Drake's Equation!   ;)

Thnx for the great post man, good info...  8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Hungry ghost on July 29, 2013, 09:31 am
Sorry Glen, forgot about you! :-)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: soviet on July 29, 2013, 09:40 am
Great post Hungry Ghost. You're going to get a +1 in about 18 posts.   :D
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 29, 2013, 01:29 pm
Just a head's up....the next time you see something completely unexplainable or bizarre in the sky...please submit a case report of your experience at www.mufon.com.   The Mutual UFO Network compiles these reports and if there is a cluster of eye-witnesses in one area or a mass sighting they will send UFO investigators out to the scene.   Any reports you can submit to add to the database will no doubt be helpful....even if they are old sightings.       It's a non-profit organization, and they attempt to be objective and scientific about it.  I had a professor at university who was a UFO investigator for Syracuse University for awhile....so they really do exist !!!!   (Investigators exist....jury is still out on what the fuck is in the sky.)    ;) 8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: cooked on July 29, 2013, 06:45 pm
of course aliens exist. the kepler telescope is finding planets in the goldilocks zone all the time. these planets are much too far away to determine any other characteristics of the planets, but we know there is a decent chance the temperature is right for liquid water to exist.

the fact of the matter is that in just our own solar system, we have found aliens in the form of bacteria, and there is most likely water under the crust of europa. Titan has liquid methane running like water does here on earth.

we are developing blueprints for technology that uses anti matter to travel at the speed of light, and technically we have the ability to make very small objects time travel and bend space/time. the technology to actually send a person to gliese 581 g will probably exist within the next 200 years, so the thought that an alien species has developed it and mastered it is almost a given. the earth is relatively young, and the human race is about 5 minutes old in comparison to everything else.

you can't blame the government for covering up UFOs. firstly, there is little way to confirm they are aliens and not just some guy somewhere fucking with us. they could be literally anything. if the government does know aliens exist, can you really blame them for covering it up? aliens existing and the idea that the universe is pouring with life kind of makes you feel irrelevant here on earth. your daily life and function in society doesn't really matter if out there some 50 light years away there is a human race 2.0 conquering the galaxy. we live in ignorance of what exists past our own solar system, and the government obviously would want to keep it this way.

i think in our generation (people in their 20s) we will see great leaps in technology but i doubt we will see much of that technologies results. the best thing we will have in our generation is hotels in space and the kepler finding an assfuck of habitable planets some of which we probably confirm have liquid water.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Cher on July 29, 2013, 09:50 pm
great thread, thanks everyone, there's some really great reading in here!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 29, 2013, 09:54 pm
hey soviet and hungry ghost....I just have one thing to ask you since you seem to be able to discredit alot of things...Can you discredit this documentary, "SIRIUS".   Can you discredit, Our US astronauts, Russian cosmonauts, Brazilian government, Canadian Government, and highly ranked military officials all around the world???  Would you call these great heroes... delusional???


Just need to be objective, that is all... If you can logically discredit all those people, and the documentary "SIRIUS"  I will believe all you have to say!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Hungry ghost on July 30, 2013, 07:13 am
I will watch the documentary and get back to you but I think you misunderstand in which direction the burden of proof lies.
You are saying that it is up to me to "logically discredit" ie completely prove what each and every one of these reliable witnesses saw WAS NOT  an alien spacecraft.
       My position is that it is up to you to prove that one single one WAS.
I have never disputed that many presumably reliable, military and scientific witnesses have reported witnessing things that they are unable to explain. Their anecdotes typically refer to their many years experience and how they have 'never seen anything like it'.
       But it has been shown over and over again that eyewitness testimony, popularly considered as nearly solid proof, is notoriously unreliable. Memory distorts events. Military observers are just as susceptible as civilians.
        My favourite example is another Skeptoid episode. You really need to listen to this one so search "Skeptoid Rendlesham" The transcript is below. It really shows how what is popularly considered to be one of the most well proven UFO sightings, due to military witnesses, can be totally discredited by hard evidence. To my mind, the sound recording of the event in sync with a beep timing the lighthouse frequency is a devastating yet simple counter argument:

Transcript (you really do need to listen to this one though):

The Sci-Fi Channel calls it the most comprehensive cover-up in the history of Britain. It's often called the most important UFO incident of the 20th century. Imagine, alien spacecraft drifting through the woods on the perimeter of a US Air Force Base in England, shining their colored lights around in plain view of pursuing military security personnel, for three nights in a row. And how did the United Kingdom and the United States react to this obvious threat to their nuclear arsenals? They didn't. There's no wonder the Rendlesham Forest UFO Incident is the one that UFOlogists consider the most frightening.

If you watch the Sci-Fi Channel, the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, or any of the other paranormal TV networks, you've probably heard the popular version of events on those three nights. Here are the significant points:

Two old Royal Air Force airfields, RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge, are situated just two miles apart near the eastern coast of England. Throughout the cold war they were operated by the United States Air Force. On the night of Christmas Day, December 25, 1980, personnel at the base reported bright UFOs streaking through the sky. Later that night, in the wee hours of December 26, security personnel from RAF Woodbridge entered Rendlesham Forest to investigate some strange, pulsating, colored lights moving through the trees, that they thought at first might be a downed aircraft. Local constables were called and also participated in the observation. Base personnel described the craft they pursued as metal and conical, with a bright red light above and a circle of blue lights below, and suspended in a yellow mist. By daylight, they located a clearing where they thought the strangely lit craft had set down, and found three depressions in the ground in a triangular pattern. The constables were called again and photographed and confirmed the landing site.

Two nights later in the wee hours of December 28, they returned to the site, led by Lt. Colonel Charles Halt, second in command at the base. They brought a radiation detector and recorded high levels of radiation at the landing site, again observed the colored, pulsating lights through the trees, and again pursued them through the forest. Other colored lights were seen flying through the sky. Col. Halt recorded the audio of this pursuit on a microcassette. Two weeks later, after debriefing all of his men who participated, he wrote down the specifics of the episode in a signed memo titled "Unexplained Lights", and sent it in to the British Ministry of Defense. Ever since, the airmen involved claim to have been coerced to change their stories and deny that anything happened, and were threatened with comments like "bullets are cheap."

Wow. That story is really something, isn't it? But even more impressive than the story is the documentation, mainly Col. Halt's audio recording and signed memo. You don't rise to be deputy commander of a United States Air Force base with nuclear weapons if you're a nutcase, and when you're accompanied by local police constables and a number of Air Force security personnel who all file written reports, you don't exactly make up ridiculous stories. There's little doubt that Rendlesham Forest probably has the best, most reliable evidence of any popular UFO story.

Ever since I first heard about the Rendlesham Forest incident, I've been as curious as anyone to know what actually happened. So I decided to begin with the null hypothesis — that nothing extraordinary happened — and then examine each piece of evidence that something extraordinary did happen, individually, on its own merit. I wanted to see if we could find a natural explanation for each piece of evidence: You always have to eliminate terrestrial explanations before you can consider the extraterrestrial.

Let's take it chronologically. The first events were the reported UFO sightings at the base on the night of the 25th and the early hours of the 26th. It turns out that people on the base were not the only people to see this. UFO reports flooded in from all over southern England, as it turned out that night was one of the best on record for dramatic meteors. The first were at 5:20pm and again at 7:20pm over southeastern England. Later at 9pm, the upper stage of a Russian rocket that had launched the Cosmos 749 satellite re-entered and broke up. As reported in the Journal of the British Astronomical Association, 250 people called in and reported a sighting as first six fragments came streaking in, which then broke up into more than 20. Finally, at about 2:45am on the morning of the 26th, a meteor described by witnesses as "bright as the moon" flew overhead with an unusually long duration of 3-4 seconds. The experience of the airmen was described in a letter home written by one of them:

    At [about 3am], me and five other guys were walking up a dark path about 2 miles from base... Then we saw a bright light go right over us about 50 feet up and just fly over a field. It was silent.

At the same time on base, a security patrolman was dispatched to check the weapons storage area to see if a "falling star" had hit it. It had not. But it does seem clear that all of the UFO reports from the base are perfectly consistent with known meteor activity on that night. So much for the UFO sightings. Next piece of evidence.

Airmen at the east end of RAF Woodbridge went into the forest to investigate a strange, pulsing, colored light that they suspected might be a downed aircraft. We have the signed statements of the three men who went into the forest, SSgt. Penniston and Airmen Cabansag and Burroughs, as well as that of their superior, Lt. Buran. At this point it's important to know the geography of the area. Heading east from the east gate of RAF Woodbridge, there is about one mile of forest, followed by an open farmer's field several acres in size. At the far end of that field is a farmhouse. A little more than 5 miles beyond that sits the Orfordness lighthouse, in a direct line of sight.

Although the three men stayed together, their reports are dramatically different. Penniston and Burroughs reported moving lights of different colors, that they felt came from a mechanical object with a red light on top and blue lights below surrounded by a yellow haze. They even drew pictures of it in their reports, but Penniston's illustration of their best view of it shows it partially obscured by trees and well off in the distance to the east. Burroughs' drawing of the object is based on Penniston's description, as Burroughs himself only reported seeing lights. Cabansag, however, reported that the only light they saw after actually leaving the base was the one that all three men eventually identified as a lighthouse or beacon beyond the farmhouse. Cabansag reported that the yellow haze had simply been the glow from the farmhouse lights. Once they reached the field, they turned around and returned to base without further incident.

A further problem with Burroughs' and Penniston's stories is that they have grown substantially over time, particularly Penniston's. In more recent TV interviews, they've both claimed that they saw the craft fly up out of the trees and fly around. Penniston has also unveiled a notebook which he claims he wrote during their forest chase, which he displayed on a 2003 Sci-Fi Channel documentary. Its times and dates are wrong, and Burroughs has stated that Penniston did not make any notes during the episode and would not have had time to even if he'd wanted. Penniston's story has also expanded to include a 45 minute personal walkaround inspection of the object during which he took a whole roll of photographs (seized by the the Air Force, of course), which from the written statements of all three men, is a clear fabrication.

Only Cabansag's version of events, that there was a single pulsing light later determined to be a distant beacon or lighthouse, describes events that all three men agreed on, and is consistent with the statements of others. For example, A1C Chris Arnold, who placed the call to the police and waited at the end of the access road, gave this description in a 1997 interview:

    There was absolutely nothing in the woods. We could see lights in the distance and it appeared unusual as it was a sweeping light, (we did not know about the lighthouse on the coast at the time). We also saw some strange colored lights in the distance but were unable to determine what they were... Contrary to what some people assert, at the time almost none of us knew there was a lighthouse at Orford Ness. Remember, the vast majority of folks involved were young people, 19, 20, 25 years old. Consequently it wasn't something most of the troops were cognizant of. That's one reason the lights appeared interesting or out of the ordinary to some people.

Police constables responding to Arnold's call of "unusual lights in the sky" did arrive on the scene while Penniston, Cabansag, and Burroughs were still in the forest. Here is the report they filed:

    Air traffic control West Drayton checked. No knowledge of aircraft. Reports received of aerial phenomena over southern England during the night. Only lights visible this area was from Orford light house. Search made of area - negative.

So much for unusual lights or strange flying craft reported by the airmen in the forest on the first night.

Next morning, some of the men found what they believed to be site of where Penniston's craft must have touched down. It was a clearing with three depressions in the ground, possibly made by landing pads. Again the police were called. The police report stated:

    There were three marks in the area which did not follow a set pattern. The impressions made by the marks were of no depth and could have been made by an animal.

Forestry Commission worker Vince Thurkettle, who lived less than a mile away, was also present at the examination of the landing site. Astronomer Ian Ridpath, who has a fantastic web site about the event (and check out this YouTube video of his original BBC report here), interviewed Thurkettle about the impressions and the reported burn marks on the surrounding trees:

    He recognized them as rabbit diggings, several months old and covered with a layer of fallen pine needles... The "burn marks" on the trees were axe cuts in the bark, made by the foresters themselves as a sign that the trees were ready to be felled.

So much for the landing site.

It was two nights later that Col. Halt decided to take the investigation into his own hands (contrary to the popular telling that says there were events on three nights in a row, there are no reported events on the second night). Halt properly armed himself with a Geiger counter and an audio recorder (Download the complete 17-minute recording here), and took some men to examine the landing site and the strange lights. It's been reported that Halt found radiation levels at the landing site ten times higher than normal background levels:

    Col. Halt: "Up to seven tenths? Or seven units, let's call it, on the point five scale."

He used a standard issue AN-PDR 27 Survey Meter, which detects beta and gamma radiation. The highest level reported by Col. Halt on his audio tape, "seven tenths", corresponded to .07 milliroentgens per hour, just at the lowest reading on the bottom range of the meter, the "point five scale". The UK's National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) told Ian Ridpath that levels between .05 and .1 mR/h were normal background levels; however, this particular meter was designed to measure much higher levels of radiation and so it was "not credible" to establish a level of only ten times normal background. So much for Col. Halt's radiation.

And then they observed the mysterious colored light flashing through the trees:

    Col. Halt: "You just saw a light? Where? Slow down. Where?"
    Unidentified: "Right on this position here. Straight ahead, in between the trees – there it is again. Watch – straight ahead, off my flashlight there, sir. There it is."
    Col. Halt: "I see it, too. What is it?"
    Unidentified: "We don’t know, sir."
    Col. Halt: "It’s a strange, small red light."

Every lighthouse has a published interval at which it flashes. This is how sea captains are able to identify which light they're seeing. The Orfordness lighthouse has an interval of 5 seconds. Now listen to the same exchange again; I've added a beep at exactly five second intervals.

Although several times during the tape Col. Halt calls the light red, he is contradicted by his men who say it's yellow. In photographs of the 1980 light taken before it was replaced, it did indeed look orange. Even the new light, which is mercury vapor discharge and therefore whiter and bluer than the original incandescent, appears distinctly red in photographs and video when viewed from Rendlesham forest.

Col. Halt, having been in the area longer than most of the young servicemen, did know about the lighthouse; but he didn't think this light could be it because it was coming from the east. Col. Halt believed the lighthouse was to the southeast. This is true from RAF Bentwaters, where Halt was from. But the chase through the forest proceeded due east from RAF Woodbridge — two miles south of Bentwaters — and from there, unknown to Col. Halt, Orfordness lighthouse is indeed due east.

    Col. Halt: "We've passed the farmer's house and are crossing the next field and now we have multiple sightings of up to five lights with a similar shape and all but they seem to be steady now rather than a pulsating or glow with a red flash."

Five steady lights glowing red. The Orfordness Transmitting Station is just two miles up the coast from the lighthouse, and features five tall radio towers topped with red lights. Col. Halt's thoroughness was commendable, but even he can be mistaken. Without exception, everything he reported on his audiotape and in his written memo has a perfectly rational and unremarkable explanation.

And with that, we're nearly out of evidence to examine. All that remains is the tale that the men were debriefed and ordered never to mention the event, and warned that "bullets are cheap". Well, as we've seen on television, the men all talk quite freely about it, and even Col. Halt says that to this day nobody has ever debriefed him. So this appears to be just another dramatic invention for television, perhaps from one of the men who have expanded their stories over the years.

When you examine each piece of evidence separately on its own merit, you avoid the trap of pattern matching and finding correlations where none exist. The meteors had nothing to do with the lighthouse or the rabbit diggings, but when you hear all three stories told together, it's easy to conclude (as did the airmen) that the light overhead became an alien spacecraft in the forest. Always remember: Separate pieces of poor evidence don't aggregate together into a single piece of good evidence. You can stack cowpies as high as you want, but they won't turn into a bar of gold.

(End transcript)

I will watch your documentary, but I repeat, the onus is not on me to go through it and provide similar disproof to each and every one of the assertions.
       The universe we can see through our telescopes is an unimaginably vast and incredible wonder. We can see back in time almost 13 billion years to its strange birth. Its hard not to imagine that countless civilisations have risen and fallen in that seemingly infinite space. I'm afraid, however, there is no convincing evidence that any of it has contacted us.
      I would love to have evidence of life elsewhere in the universe. Even microbes on Mars would be mind blowing. (they would be related to us, or show a seperate origin of life. Either finding would be incredible!)
       I think my idea of what constitutes evidence is more realistic than yours, that's all.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 30, 2013, 08:11 am
Neither side of this debate can really prove or disprove their beliefs. Unless of course some wreckage from an alien spacecraft can be produced or something along those lines. This is all just pure speculation. ;D

But I prefer to speculate that we are not alone out there in the vastness of space. Plus I know for a fact that the powers that be are not always honest with the pubic.

...Just sayin....
;D
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 30, 2013, 10:55 pm
Hmmm, I think me and you Hungry Ghost are after the same thing....THE TRUTH!!!  I for the longest time, knew for a fact that there were no ET's....But....than i did DMT, and it changed my life!!!  I then started reading about quantum physics, alternate dimensions, and ET's.  I REALLY hope you watched SIRIUS, because i would definitely want to hear your opinion on the matter.  There is just way too many credible people that have come out of the dark, and some of the stuff they say, couldnt be made up... I dont know man, but i do know one thing, and this you cannot forget.  We live in a world CONTROLLED by government... Do you think that the government wants you to know that any of these ET's exist?  The government can take any expert they want, and make them discredit anything that they do not want the truth out on!!! 

The government also tells me that my mind/heart is not all-powerful!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: cooked on July 30, 2013, 11:47 pm
you guys seem very paranoid about the government hiding things instead of the pure science of why there are obviously aliens
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 31, 2013, 12:51 am
Also, for those who think the government is behind some collossal cover-up to keep regular Americans in the dark, just remember, the government is -really- poor about keeping secrets.   The government is hard-pressed to do anything with much discretion or competence anymore. There would be so many leaks by now if such a gigantic conspiracy were taking place.  Our own government is far from the threat some Americans pump it up to be.   And it will only get weaker........
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on July 31, 2013, 08:39 am
you guys seem very paranoid about the government hiding things instead of the pure science of why there are obviously aliens

Is it still paranoid if the government is actually hiding things? There's plenty of proof that they do in fact hide things from the public. Not nessecarily about aliens, just things they don't wan't you knowing about.

But you're right, @GlenRunciter, there are leaks. A lot of government documents about UFO's have been declassified through the FOIA. These are the reports from high ranking military officials from all over the world (not just US). These are people whose job it was to identify aircraft and they couldn't identify it. And just remember, the reports were classified before they were declassified. What's up with that? Why hide it?

Now does that prove it was aliens? Of course not. Its just fun to speculate. I personally prefer to imagine a world in which aliens exist. Like in that movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I saw that as a kid and I've always wanted to meet the aliens and have a color/sound conversation with them ;D
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: cooked on July 31, 2013, 08:50 am
you guys seem very paranoid about the government hiding things instead of the pure science of why there are obviously aliens

Is it still paranoid if the government is actually hiding things? There's plenty of proof that they do in fact hide things from the public. Not nessecarily about aliens, just things they don't wan't you knowing about.

But you're right, @GlenRunciter, there are leaks. A lot of government documents about UFO's have been declassified through the FOIA. These are the reports from high ranking military officials from all over the world (not just US). These are people whose job it was to identify aircraft and they couldn't identify it. Of course the reports were classified before they were declassified.

Now does that prove it was aliens? Of course not. Its just fun to speculate. I personally prefer to imagine a reality in which aliens exist. Like in that movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I saw that as a kid and I've always wanted to meet the aliens and have a color/sound conversation with them ;D

of course they are hiding things. if an alien walked into your room right now and talked about how to build a time machine, do you think telling the entire world (assuming you had undeniable proof) would have any positive affects? there are things in this universe that the general public cannot handle, and a lot of these things show up dramatized in documentaries. others though, such as aliens, would have no positive effects if revealed to the world.

it shakes and outright destroys religion, it makes people worry and become less productive with matters on earth, and it would probably cause even more conspiracy theories to pop up.

not only is the government hiding things, but I would be disappointed if they didn't.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 31, 2013, 09:25 am
@Rastaman....Cheers, I agree with you about it being MORE FUN to think UFO's are alien spacecraft, etc.    I WANT them to exist.  But I also need to stay within the realm of reality while utilizing my reasoning and higher brain functions (while I still have them.... ::)  )      I'm with Fox Mulder....remember the poster in his office, "I WANT TO BELIEVE"    ?    OK, I'm dating myself a little bit there.....LOL..... :P    Yes, I love to study the phenomenon and read experience reports and philosophize about it...but it's important to remain skeptical and clear-headed at the same time.  "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."  ---Carl Sagan     8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: goblin on July 31, 2013, 08:07 pm
Anybody here familiar with the writings/philosophy of Jacques Vallee? He had come to the conclusion that UFO and "alien" phenomena held an uncanny resemblance to the fairy and other similar mythological/folkloric events of times gone by.

The abduction phenomena, for instance, are remarkably similar to the stories of being held captive in fairyland. Encounters with odd beings have a parallel with the plethora of tales of bogies, pixies, trolls (not the kind you find here), and even demons and angels.

His conclusion is that all of these phenomena can be explained not by the "nuts and bolts" spaceship theories, but by depth psychology and associated theories of other and altered dimensions, which would jibe very well with us and our fascination with altered states of consciousness.

goblin
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on July 31, 2013, 09:42 pm
Do the research guys.... there are about 40 levels of Top Secret in the US.....And do you know what the highest level is??? ALIENS... They rank even higher than the hydrogen bomb!!!!

Im dead serious...google it or youtube it and find out how many inside sources say this!!!
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: GlenRunciter on July 31, 2013, 10:23 pm
Cheers Goblin +1 for the Jacques Vallee name check.   Man, I forgot about that dude, I remember really liking his theories...I think he expanded on Carl Jung's preliminary essay on the topic "Flying Saucers:  The Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky'      Like Vallee, Jung was more interested in the psychological implications of the flying saucer craze...the UFO could be interpreted as another "archetype" of the collective unconscious, sprung anew for the modern age.     Flying saucer-like symbols have been recorded throughout history....going as far back as the Hebrew Bible (Ezekiel 1:15)...and perhaps earlier.    In the East , the round, mystical Mandala artwork that Tibetan Buddhists meditate on is an analogous psychological archetype.   For Jung, writing in the late 40's, he saw the modern birth of the UFO obsession with the Roswell incident and the various sightings widely publicized around that time.   I think he saw it as an outlet for unconscious anxiety and fear people were experiencing during that time due to the fast paced technological advances and sudden changes in living standards...the world was getting smaller, very quickly, and nuclear annihilation was a serious concern.  Our unconscious angst and trepidations can manifest themselves in odd ways.     Good stuff, on Vallee, I need to reconnect with his work......!   8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: goblin on August 01, 2013, 12:04 am
Cheers Goblin +1 for the Jacques Vallee name check.   Man, I forgot about that dude, I remember really liking his theories...I think he expanded on Carl Jung's preliminary essay on the topic "Flying Saucers:  The Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky'      Like Vallee, Jung was more interested in the psychological implications of the flying saucer craze...the UFO could be interpreted as another "archetype" of the collective unconscious, sprung anew for the modern age.     Flying saucer-like symbols have been recorded throughout history....going as far back as the Hebrew Bible (Ezekiel 1:15)...and perhaps earlier.    In the East , the round, mystical Mandala artwork that Tibetan Buddhists meditate on is an analogous psychological archetype.   For Jung, writing in the late 40's, he saw the modern birth of the UFO obsession with the Roswell incident and the various sightings widely publicized around that time.   I think he saw it as an outlet for unconscious anxiety and fear people were experiencing during that time due to the fast paced technological advances and sudden changes in living standards...the world was getting smaller, very quickly, and nuclear annihilation was a serious concern.  Our unconscious angst and trepidations can manifest themselves in odd ways.     Good stuff, on Vallee, I need to reconnect with his work......!   8)
Hey, GlenRunciter, very clear elucidation on the psychological interpretation. And yes, Carl Jung is right up there in this. BTW, Vallee's best book on this topic is Passport to Magonia.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on August 01, 2013, 04:39 am
IDK but there's a strange story going around the  Disclosure type guys that shortly the US govt IS going to 'disclode' the presence of aliens, and very possibly "hostile aliens" as well ... what would be the use of a military/Industrial Machine if you've no one to use it 'against' ??? But maybe not, "Truth IS stranger than Fiction!" Definitely in my experience!

 A rumor has it that 'they'  (US 'govt') has asked Julian Assange to be the "spokeperson" for this event, but I believe he's declined!! lol!
  Again, truth is stranger than fiction, and somehow this stuff doesn't 'surprise me' at all!!


Personally i have NO doubt, ET's are living here on  Terra, and "we" as in our govt's "Top Secret Black Ops" have been working together with various 'races' for many decades now.

 It's got to come out, plus, it might just serve to distract people's attention away, from the economic rape they're experiencing, the PTB love a good 'diversion' while theey do their dirtiest work!

m m m
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Jack N Hoff on August 01, 2013, 04:44 am
Personally i have NO doubt, ET's are living here on  Terra, and "we" as in our govt's "Top Secret Black Ops" have been working together with various 'races' for many decades now.

Agreed.  I believe we met them in the 30s or 40s and that we got a lot of technology and knowledge from them.  That is when we started with all of the nuclear stuff.  That is when we went crazy with nuclear bombs and radioactive household items.  That is when we got stealth technology.  A lot of technology materialized out of nowhere in that time... ;)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Rastaman Vibration on August 01, 2013, 06:01 am
Cheers Goblin +1 for the Jacques Vallee name check.   Man, I forgot about that dude, I remember really liking his theories...I think he expanded on Carl Jung's preliminary essay on the topic "Flying Saucers:  The Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky'      Like Vallee, Jung was more interested in the psychological implications of the flying saucer craze...the UFO could be interpreted as another "archetype" of the collective unconscious, sprung anew for the modern age.     Flying saucer-like symbols have been recorded throughout history....going as far back as the Hebrew Bible (Ezekiel 1:15)...and perhaps earlier.    In the East , the round, mystical Mandala artwork that Tibetan Buddhists meditate on is an analogous psychological archetype.   For Jung, writing in the late 40's, he saw the modern birth of the UFO obsession with the Roswell incident and the various sightings widely publicized around that time.   I think he saw it as an outlet for unconscious anxiety and fear people were experiencing during that time due to the fast paced technological advances and sudden changes in living standards...the world was getting smaller, very quickly, and nuclear annihilation was a serious concern.  Our unconscious angst and trepidations can manifest themselves in odd ways.     Good stuff, on Vallee, I need to reconnect with his work......!   8)

It is also possible that there really were saucer shaped objects in the sky throghout history. And the UFO craze with the Roswell incident is because aliens actually crash landed on Earth.

Usually the truth is the simplest explanation. Which of these 2 theories is the simpler explanation?

Just sayin... ;D

Respect
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Hungry ghost on August 01, 2013, 06:29 am
I am happy to believe the US government has in the past and continues to cover up many things: the extent to which it funded 'anticommunist' rebels in other countries; the extent to which it has used assassination to further its foreign policy; the extent to which it has tortured or caused torture. Its behaviour with regard to its south american neighbours has been particularly reprehensible in this respect. I believe that that is the main reason that Obama has failed to live up to his promise to close Guantanamo: that to do so would involve revealing how badly some captives were treated in the heady post 9/11 days in a frenzy of patriotism.
         All if these things are a) fairly mundane b) fairly easy to cover up and c) pretty much common knowledge due to leakiness. Its just that no one gives a shit because they'd rather fantasise about alien technology and deals with extraterrestrials, or that the government blew up WTC in a Reichstag like black flag operation.
       It is insulting to humanities intelligence to suggest we could not have invented things like nuclear technology, microchips and stealth without alien assistance. Besides which the historical trail of development and evolution of these technolgys is quite clear. Most came from the arms races of the second world war and the cold war that followed it.
      Radioactivity and the atomic theory behind it was first proposed/discovered in 19th C. Think Marie Curie and Arthur Eddington....then Einstein and relativity, suggesting that huge energy might be tied up in the atom. In the war against Hitler it was feared that the Nazis might develop atomic weapons first and so huge resources were devoted to developing a weaponised form. The rockets later used to deliver it were first proposed by a Russian  in the 20s then developed by Nazi scientists, who were then given amnesty by US. This is all well documented historical fact.
      Charles Babbage developed some mechanical calculating machines in 19thC  and proposed but never built mechanical computers. Also at this time the 'relay' an electric powered switch, used to boost telegraph signals long distance (a switch would trigger a switch which triggered another switch etc)
In WW2 the British needed desperately to crack the Enigma code and so developed an early computer using relay switches and valves, it was the size of a room. After the war, valves were used in all kinds of early 'electronic' devices. Then it was discovered that a much smaller electronic switch could be made out of silicon; the transistor. Computing machines began to get smaller. A stroke of genius was made: by printing a circuit on silicon, (leaving tiny gaps to act as the transistors) using photographic techniques, tiny circuits could be created. Since then, our adeptness at making these chips smaller and smaller has grown and grown. Eventually we are going to hit the atomic level at which point no further miniaturisation will be possible. Maybe computers will begin to get larger again? To keep up with Moore's law which is a huge driver of economic growth. That's if some new technology is not developed (quantum computing? There is a huge economic incentive to do so)
            Radio was also discovered as part of electromagnetism in 19th C although not put to much practical use until Marconi and others began their experiments in early 20th C. In WW2 (again...notice a theme) the allies, perticularly the British, desperately needed a way to detect enemy aircraft over the horizon. They experimented with sensitive listening devices, before inventing RADAR, which utilises reflected radio waves to detect distant objects. It proved a huge success. The British managed to keep it secret from the Nazis at first and so were able to wreak huge carnage amongst the filthy hun Luftwaffe. A proud day for my country. The US at this point were hiding behind the Atlantic pretending this apocalypse in Europe had nothing to do with them.
          Throughout the cold war Radar was a huge pain in the arse for both sides. The main intention of both USSR and US was to develop weapons that would enable surprise attacks on the opponent. One strand of this was ICBMs which would deliver nuclear payloads in minutes, by flying through space. Another strand was high altitude high speed planes. The stealth bomber came out of many years of secretive development by the US, to make a plane invisible to Radar that could fly bombing missions over Europe. It didn't however use any particularly mysterious technology, just geometry and absorbent surfaces to dull radar reflection.
       Its actually been suggested that during the cold war, both sides encouraged stories of UFOs to direct attention away from their secret weapon development programmes. This theory has the advantage of a)being completely in keeping with known facts and b)not requiring us to believe that the aliens, having travelled unbelievable distances, decided to ally themselves with the US during the cold war, and that the US has been doing shady deals with them ever since.
       As I've said before, if Aliens come....you will know about it.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Hungry ghost on August 01, 2013, 06:39 am
Cheers Goblin +1 for the Jacques Vallee name check.   Man, I forgot about that dude, I remember really liking his theories...I think he expanded on Carl Jung's preliminary essay on the topic "Flying Saucers:  The Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky'      Like Vallee, Jung was more interested in the psychological implications of the flying saucer craze...the UFO could be interpreted as another "archetype" of the collective unconscious, sprung anew for the modern age.     Flying saucer-like symbols have been recorded throughout history....going as far back as the Hebrew Bible (Ezekiel 1:15)...and perhaps earlier.    In the East , the round, mystical Mandala artwork that Tibetan Buddhists meditate on is an analogous psychological archetype.   For Jung, writing in the late 40's, he saw the modern birth of the UFO obsession with the Roswell incident and the various sightings widely publicized around that time.   I think he saw it as an outlet for unconscious anxiety and fear people were experiencing during that time due to the fast paced technological advances and sudden changes in living standards...the world was getting smaller, very quickly, and nuclear annihilation was a serious concern.  Our unconscious angst and trepidations can manifest themselves in odd ways.     Good stuff, on Vallee, I need to reconnect with his work......!   8)

It is also possible that there really were saucer shaped objects in the sky throghout history. And the UFO craze with the Roswell incident is because aliens actually crash landed on Earth.

Usually the truth is the simplest explanation. Which of these 2 theories is the simpler explanation?

Just sayin... ;D

Respect

1. That humans have been prone to similar hallucinations and delusions throughout history, these taking appropriate cultural forms depending on time and place.

2. That unknown races from another star system have been visiting us regularly through history, their visits being experienced differently depending on the local culture.


       The first explanation is simpler as it does not require the supposition of an entirely unknown space faring species, visiting us and yet remaining secret.

If you are going to use occams razor, you need to know where to cut.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: motek on August 02, 2013, 10:22 am
It's SO sad to read this from a person as it show's a very "closed mind" ... becoz you "already know" you cannot learn....

Quote
Radio was also discovered as part of electromagnetism in 19th C although not put to much practical use until Marconi


err ... it WAS Nikola TESLA who first discussed AND USED "radiowaves" although HE did not refer to them as such, an this was in the 1890's

Now UTFSE and do some openminded homework about "zero point energy"  and act like a scientist from the 1930's being SHOWN a laser pointer  :o

cheers  :D


m m m motek ;)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Hungry ghost on August 04, 2013, 06:26 am
You know what? I nearly put 'by Tesla' before 19C in my post, only I wasn't 100% sure it was him  so I went for the more vague aproach. But  I'm not sure why you think that's the huge weak point in my post?
        Tesla was an undoubted intellectual giant who deserves much more credit than Edison. He certainly did make many experiments with radio, however he became sidetracked by the idea of wireless transmission of power. The inverse square law means that although theoreotically possible this is so incredibly inefficient as to be useless.
        In later life Tesla made many bold claims, and in more recent years more have been made by his "supporters" (who insult the great mans memory with their pseudoscientific bullshit)
       Read the whole wikipedia article on Tesla. Note the huge number of 'citation needed' in a the middle section. Then read about the analysis of his work by the MIT professor during WW2 who concluded 'there is nothing we need worry about here,'  They basically concluded that all his stories of death rays and earthquake inducing gravity waves were self promotion. Or wait! Did they? Or did they start their secret black ops research projects? Am I just a sheeple (sheeperson?)
       No... I had it right the first time.
Now.......zero point energy.  Let me see, is my reaction to your suggestion that I UTFSE and have my closed mind blown right open

A) Wow man. That is some crazy shit. Why haven't I heard of this before? Is there perhaps some conspiracy to keep the masses ignorant of this source of free energy? By the oil companies or some shit? Maybe I'd better start questioning my assumptions about the world. Look behind the curtain. I feel llike a scientist from the 1930s being shown a laser pointer.
Or


B) *sigh* oh dear. By mentioning this ignorant bullshit you have disgraced yourself and shown a shocking ability to ignore facts.

???

*answer at bottom

Now here is a real explanation of zero point fluctuations and why they cannot be used as an energy source. Note that this is actual science and is more difficult to follow sometimes than more easily digestible conspiracy bullshit. You can ignore the formula if you don't understand it.

       You people seem to confuse 'being open-minded' with 'uncritically accepting any old bullshit you read on the internet'


      "Zero-point energy is a natural consequence of quantum mechanics. Take a little mass on a spring. Its potential energy is lowest when the spring is exactly unstretched. But that means that the mass is at a particular place, and the uncertainty principle would then require that its momentum have an infinite spread, giving it infinite kinetic energy. The real lowest energy state has the mass spread out over a little region, with the potential and kinetic energies each a little above their lowest possible values, but with the total as low as possible. That minimum is called the zero-point energy. Many quantum systems are mathematically analogous to a mass on a spring and have similar zero-point energies.

It's misleading to say that large fluctuations 'are occurring' in that lowest state, although scientists often use sloppy phrases like that. The system is just sitting in a state, which happens not to have definite values of position and momentum. It's not true, however, to say that its position and momentum are changing in any way. That language comes from inconsistent attempts to force quantum facts into classical descriptions.

No valid theory predicts any way to extract such energy, which would require leaving things in a state with less energy than the state with least energy, by definition of 'zero-point.'

Actually, this isn't the whole story here. Zero-point fluctuations in the fields of known particles, particularly the photon, have measurable effects. And even a very tiny amount of energy can be extracted from this when done properly, but you can also think of it as extracting energy from reducing the potential energy associated with the configuration of actual pieces of matter. Here's how this works:

In 1948, Hendrik Casimir found that the zero-point fluctuations in the photon field of the vacuum are affected by nearby conducting bodies, which create a boundary condition on the electromagnetic field, forcing some components to be zero on the surfaces of the conductors. Classically, this means that standing waves in cavities can have wavelengths no more than twice the length of a cavity. The quantum fluctuations are in the standing-wave modes for a piece of vacuum bounded by conducting walls, and so long-wavelength quantum fluctuations (ones with lower energy) are not allowed, while high-frequency, short-wavelength fluctuations are still present. If you make the cavity small enough, or put two conducting plates close enough together, you can shut out an ever-increasing portion of the fluctuation spectrum, starting at the low end. The low-frequency oscillations still take place outside of the cavity, and so the energy density of the zero-point fluctuations inside the cavity is less than that outside. The sides of the cavity therefore feel an inward force (typically this is done with two parallel conducting plates) and the force per unit area is

F/A = pi^2*(hbar)*c/(240d^4)

where hbar is Planck's constant divided by 2pi, c is the speed of light, and d is the distance between the two plates. The force is very very very feeble except at very short distances (microns or nanometers). There are important corrections to this for real materials -- the calculation above assumes that the conducting plates are shiny at all frequencies. Real materials start becoming transparent to very high-frequency electromagnetic radiation, and for real materials the force is less. The apparently large value of 1/d^4 for small d gets cut off by the fact that the short frequencies aren't reflected well.

The force is so feeble it has taken a large amount of effort and technology even to measure it, so it really isn't a very good source of energy. In particular, once you've brought your conducting plates together, that's it -- no more energy can be extracted from these plates until you pull them apart again. The force acts a like an weak attractive spring between two conducting plates; it can be overshadowed by other forces, like the electrostatic force if the plates aren't at exactly the same voltage, or perhaps even gravitational forces.

So there's a potential energy associated with the Casimir force between two conducting plates at a particular separation. You can add energy to the system by pulling the plates apart or get energy out by allowing them to pull together. But you cannot get free energy this way, for the same reason that you couldn't if the plates were held together with rubber bands"


Too long; didn't read? 

         Then don't bother responding.....understanding science involves reading. A lot of reading. And thinking. A lot of thinking.
       

* it was B.
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: weed4me6969 on August 04, 2013, 05:13 pm
Hungry ghost, please watch the documentary Sirius!!!  This is the proof that i would like to see disproven... if possible...  8)
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: Mangoes on August 04, 2013, 06:56 pm
I totally believe in UFO.It's impossible that there is always living planet EARTH in whole huuuge universe.
Besides there is a lot of evidences about UFO so...
Title: Re: UFO's/Aliens
Post by: thedopestjunkie on August 29, 2013, 10:15 pm
i have recently been listening to a lot of Carl Sagan. The interesting thing is that if there were other lifeforms that evolved in the way we have they most likely wouldve desttroyed themselves. It is quite possibly a miracle tht we havent already done so. We have the capability to desttroy the earth manyh times over at this point. Such a shame.
But more to the point, we may very well be alone in the universe. We may be the most evolved lifeforms in this vast universe, its possible. In which case that only increases the responsibility we have to treat one another more kindly and with the utmost respect. This may be all there is so make it count while you still can.