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Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: IgnorantFuck on April 07, 2012, 04:44 pm

Title: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: IgnorantFuck on April 07, 2012, 04:44 pm
Erowid says morning glory seeds have the same effect as LSD if you ingest 200-500. What's SR think about this claim? Also if anyone's tried it, did you try mashing it up and soaking it in water for hours? I ask because I'd be fairly shocked that there's actually a "legal" substitute for LSD (Legal's in quotes because I'm not wholly certain it's legal to eat them (if this is the case), just to have them).
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: tordemon on April 07, 2012, 04:48 pm
I tried that one time about 4 months ago. Worst projectile vomiting of my entire life 30 minutes after ingestion, and no effects. It was terribly disappointing.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: LucyDiamond on April 07, 2012, 04:54 pm
If I had that many seeds I would just try to manufacture some LSD myself...
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: jmoney113 on April 07, 2012, 05:45 pm
They're somewhat like LSD, since the main psychoactive component is LSA, but they have many side effects if you don't prepare them properly. Like Tordemon said, projectile vomiting is very common if you leave the husk from the seed on. You only want to ingest the inner part. I wouldn't recommend eating much prior to taking them, nor taking them on an empty stomach. When I took them, it was with 2 buddies and we decided to hike a 6 mile trail to a nice little clearing on a dead log. That 6 mile hike was the worst trek I've taken in my life. The first mile was alright, although I was feeling a bit nauseous. The next 5 miles I was experiencing some of the worst nausea I've had in my life. Obviously we ingested them with the husk on, and two of us puked like no other.

The experience was rather euphoric. I think I ingested about 300 seeds or so, but no more than that. It was a very short experiencing, lasting a little over an hour and a half, but that was my experience. A friend of mine, who was in no way shape or form experienced with psychedelia, said the beginning effects lasted about 2 hours, and then he drove home. When we got in front of his house, he got out of the car and laid on the grass and vomited. The effects vary for everyone.

All in all, it was a worthwhile experience I suppose, but I attribute that mostly to set and setting. I'll never take them again though, simply because that nausea was unbearable.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: IgnorantFuck on April 07, 2012, 06:09 pm
They're somewhat like LSD, since the main psychoactive component is LSA, but they have many side effects if you don't prepare them properly. Like Tordemon said, projectile vomiting is very common if you leave the husk from the seed on. You only want to ingest the inner part. I wouldn't recommend eating much prior to taking them, nor taking them on an empty stomach. When I took them, it was with 2 buddies and we decided to hike a 6 mile trail to a nice little clearing on a dead log. That 6 mile hike was the worst trek I've taken in my life. The first mile was alright, although I was feeling a bit nauseous. The next 5 miles I was experiencing some of the worst nausea I've had in my life. Obviously we ingested them with the husk on, and two of us puked like no other.

The experience was rather euphoric. I think I ingested about 300 seeds or so, but no more than that. It was a very short experiencing, lasting a little over an hour and a half, but that was my experience. A friend of mine, who was in no way shape or form experienced with psychedelia, said the beginning effects lasted about 2 hours, and then he drove home. When we got in front of his house, he got out of the car and laid on the grass and vomited. The effects vary for everyone.

All in all, it was a worthwhile experience I suppose, but I attribute that mostly to set and setting. I'll never take them again though, simply because that nausea was unbearable.

I see. I think if I try them it will be by soaking 500 or so seeds in some water and drinking the water. The fact that it only lasts ~2 hours is somewhat off-putting, but morning glory seeds are easier to get than lsd for me (since no bitcoins in my account and I just all around cba to deal with shady shenanigans currently). Thanks for the input though, based on the few responses here (and erowid) it seems like nausea is more or less mandatory if you eat the seeds.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: moonflower on April 07, 2012, 09:24 pm
you'd be better off eating hawaiian baby woodrose seeds. they are far more potent. you only need ~12 for a decent trip, maybe even less. both hbwr and morning glory seeds contain lsa, which is very similar to lsd, except it feels more organic. my first trip was on lsa... such a beautiful experience. very underrated drug.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: tordemon on April 08, 2012, 09:10 pm
you'd be better off eating hawaiian baby woodrose seeds. they are far more potent. you only need ~12 for a decent trip, maybe even less. both hbwr and morning glory seeds contain lsa, which is very similar to lsd, except it feels more organic. my first trip was on lsa... such a beautiful experience. very underrated drug.
Definitely a better option. I haven't done it personally, but you need much less HBWR than MG. Also, if I understand correctly, it's much easier to remove the nauseating portion of the BHWR seed than it is for the MG seed.

And, to LucyDiamond, many people have thought about manufacturing LSD that way, and the consensus generally is that it's ineffective. Despite their chemical similarity, it's very difficult to make the chemical changes to go from one to the other precisely because of how the atoms are arranged. Other precursors make the process much simpler.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: Mixer on April 09, 2012, 09:52 am
And, to LucyDiamond, many people have thought about manufacturing LSD that way, and the consensus generally is that it's ineffective. Despite their chemical similarity, it's very difficult to make the chemical changes to go from one to the other precisely because of how the atoms are arranged. Other precursors make the process much simpler.

Not really... LSD synthesis usually goes like this: hydrolisis of a lysergic acid compound to lysergic acid followed by reaction with diethylamine (with hydrazine, phosporous oxychloride or peptide coupling agents). You get LSD, then you can convert it to LSD tartrate which is more stable.

You can use LSA as the precursor just like other ergot alkaloids. LSA can be extracted from MG or HBWR with a simple A/B extraction (followed by chromatography to purify it). A typical yield for this synthesis is around 30%. This means you'll need about 3333mg of LSA to get 1000mg of LSD. An average MG seed has 0.01mg of LSA, while an HBWR seed has 0.25mg (I'm excluding other alkaloids). This means you need 333300 MG seed or 13332 HBWR seeds to make 1g of LSD. Good luck extracting that much seeds :D

Just saying it's not chemically difficult (at least, no more difficult than making LSD from ergot alkaloids), but extracting the seeds is really impractical.
What would be interesting to do is extracting the LSA from the seeds, laying it on blotter (or dissolving it in a liquid) and taking buccally/sublingually. This should eliminate nausea and vomiting.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: yovvit on April 09, 2012, 01:44 pm
OP, I'd sincerely advise against it. When I had them, I mashed up about 250 with a hammer and ate them with yoghurt (utterly fucking disgusting, haven't eaten yoghurt since) and within about 15 minutes I started to feel sick, so I had two bowls of weed and then it settled a bit, but when it got to the hour mark I felt so sick. I held down vomiting but couldn't sleep because I felt so sick and I couldn't shit for like a week, haha.

Yes, it is alike LSD, I actually got some pretty cool subtle visuals and I was tripping a little, but I'd just say it's not worth the adverse effects.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: Jaurk on April 09, 2012, 02:08 pm
5 HBWR with garlic and peppermint for 1 hour, all crushed up. Skull that down. The sulpher in garlic destroys the toxins in HBWR/MG, peppermint converts LSA to LSH, because LSA isn't all that psychedelics. A big role of the trip is in the many other alkaloids.

The first hour is slightly naesueaitng, though it tapers off.
Smoke weed on it, it'll cancel out the naesea and vasoconstriction.
MG is meant to be mroe visual, HBWR more mind fucky.

There's many ways to combat the constriction, I don't find it really bad at all with 5 HBWR.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: tordemon on April 09, 2012, 11:43 pm
And, to LucyDiamond, many people have thought about manufacturing LSD that way, and the consensus generally is that it's ineffective. Despite their chemical similarity, it's very difficult to make the chemical changes to go from one to the other precisely because of how the atoms are arranged. Other precursors make the process much simpler.

Not really... LSD synthesis usually goes like this: hydrolisis of a lysergic acid compound to lysergic acid followed by reaction with diethylamine (with hydrazine, phosporous oxychloride or peptide coupling agents). You get LSD, then you can convert it to LSD tartrate which is more stable.

You can use LSA as the precursor just like other ergot alkaloids. LSA can be extracted from MG or HBWR with a simple A/B extraction (followed by chromatography to purify it). A typical yield for this synthesis is around 30%. This means you'll need about 3333mg of LSA to get 1000mg of LSD. An average MG seed has 0.01mg of LSA, while an HBWR seed has 0.25mg (I'm excluding other alkaloids). This means you need 333300 MG seed or 13332 HBWR seeds to make 1g of LSD. Good luck extracting that much seeds :D

Just saying it's not chemically difficult (at least, no more difficult than making LSD from ergot alkaloids), but extracting the seeds is really impractical.
What would be interesting to do is extracting the LSA from the seeds, laying it on blotter (or dissolving it in a liquid) and taking buccally/sublingually. This should eliminate nausea and vomiting.

I suppose I may have misinterpreted Shulgin's comments when reading TiHKAL. I was pretty sure he had said that LSA as a precursor was less effective than the other more commonly used chemicals (ie, why the other chemicals were used).

And I actually have had LSA blotter before, incidentally. It lasted about as long as my oral experience, but I indeed was much less nauseous and enjoyed it a lot more. It was sold to me as LSD, but I later became pretty good friends with the dealer and he admitted that he had actually extracted LSA to make it.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: IgnorantFuck on April 10, 2012, 01:57 am
5 HBWR with garlic and peppermint for 1 hour, all crushed up. Skull that down. The sulpher in garlic destroys the toxins in HBWR/MG, peppermint converts LSA to LSH, because LSA isn't all that psychedelics. A big role of the trip is in the many other alkaloids.

The first hour is slightly naesueaitng, though it tapers off.
Smoke weed on it, it'll cancel out the naesea and vasoconstriction.
MG is meant to be mroe visual, HBWR more mind fucky.

There's many ways to combat the constriction, I don't find it really bad at all with 5 HBWR.

Interesting. Seems like HBWR is a better option by far then? Moonflower says I'd need about 12. Also are visuals still accompanied with the mind fuck aspect of it with hbwr?

I'll probably be going with the hawaiian regardless, since it seems like a lot fewer seeds.
Title: Re: Morning Glory Seeds?
Post by: Jaurk on April 10, 2012, 04:23 am
It's kind of rarer to see visuals on these doses of HBWR. HBWR isn't really all that better, you could do the same technique with MG except I don't know the dosages on MG.
I didn't experience any visuals on 5 HBWR, but I do them midday, lots of light.
A friend sad he experienced fractals and stuff on 8HBWR without extraction or anyhting.

He was also in pain and puked a lot, for about 5 hours.
He said it was horrible, and he'd never go that high again wihtout extracting it seriously.