Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: The Scientist on April 21, 2013, 02:25 am
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If you're having suicidal thoughts, do yourself a favour: try ketamine.
Researchers studying ketamine as suicide prevention drug
(Medical Xpress)—University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) researchers think ketamine, an anesthesia medication in use since the 1970s, might be a valuable tool in treating severe depression and reducing suicidal urges; they have launched two studies to explore the possibility. One of the studies, ketamine is administered to suicidal patients in the UAB Hospital emergency department (ED), is the only such trial actually being conducted in an ED in the nation. "There is a growing body of evidence that indicates that lower doses of ketamine can reduce suicidal feelings and relieve symptoms of severe depression in a very short period of time, as little as a few hours, which makes it an extremely attractive candidate for treating acute depression," said Richard Shelton, M.D., professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Neurobiology and lead investigator on the studies. Shelton said ketamine appears to work on depression by blocking a neurotransmitter called glutamate from binding to the NMDA receptor on neurons. Too much glutamate on an NMDA receptor leads to the opening of a calcium ion channel, releasing too much calcium downstream. This then affects a brain chemical, brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), which increases connections between neurons in the brain. These connections help the brain regulate emotions better. In the trial, patients presenting to the ED with suicidal thoughts can be enrolled in the ketamine trial. The drug is administered via infusion, which takes about five minutes. "We have seen a decrease in depression scores and suicide scores, sometimes within 15 minutes after giving ketamine," said Cheryl McCullumsmith, M.D., Ph.D., assistant professor and director of hospital psychiatry. "The antidepressants commonly used to treat depression and suicidal thoughts take weeks or months to begin to show positive effects. When a patient is actively suicidal, we don't have that much time." McCullumsmith said patients entered in the ketamine trial at the ED are admitted to the psychiatric inpatient unit for observation. "We are attempting to determine just how quickly the drug produces a beneficial result, as well as how long that result lasts," McCullumsmith said. Shelton said a second trial, sponsored by Janssen Research & Development, LLC., is a multi-site trial of patients with severe depression and possible suicidal thoughts who are seen in an outpatient setting. Patients receive two or three infusions of ketamine or placebo each week for four-to-six weeks. Patients who do not benefit from study treatment after the first two weeks are offered two weeks of treatment with ketamine without the chance of placebo. "We're interested in knowing how long each infusion will sustain the beneficial effect," said Shelton. "Ketamine does not appear to be curative, and we have a lot of work to do to see if it might be a useful drug for depression and suicide prevention on a long-term, regular-use basis." A third trial underway at UAB is testing a compound called Glyx-13, produced by Naurex, Inc. Glyx-13 may produce similar results as ketamine by blocking an amino acid called glycine, which works in tandem with glutamate. Glycine regulates glutamate signaling, so it is like an added layer of fine-tuning. When glycine and glutamate bind to NMDA together, the calcium ion channel opens widely. Blocking glutamate with ketamine can reduce the release of calcium. Blocking glycine with Glyx-13 may achieve the same result, but more subtly and with fewer side effects. "Glyx-13 may prove to be a more promising candidate than ketamine in terms of potential side effects," said Shelton. "Glyx-13 is being evaluated with just one infusion per week." Ketamine, when used in anesthesia, has some side effects, including hallucinations and psychotic symptoms. It has also been a drug of abuse, known on the street as Special K. Shelton said the dose used in the depression trials is much lower, and given over a longer period. Side effects observed thus far in the ketamine trials have been minimal, he said. More information: UAB is enrolling patients in the outpatient trials of ketamine and Glyx-13. Male and female patients ages 19-64 with a diagnosis of depression, who have failed two drug regimens for depression, are candidates for the trials. Total time involved in the studies, with treatment and follow-up, is about 13 weeks. Individuals interested in more information can contact the study coordinator at 205-975-2911 or hammond@uab.edu.
http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-03-ketamine-suicide-drug.html#jCp
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I heard about this a couple of years ago actually,that ketamine had outstanding results as an anti-depressant,but it's extreme side effects(lol)make it unsuitable for mainstream use.
I suffer with depression myself so it's relevant to me, I tried a very short period of micro-dosing once,but my supply ran out before I could tell if it was effective for me. But we all know drugs are bad for you don't we?Heaven forbid if we risk harming ourselves with illegal drugs,best we stick to the safe ones that the governments approve of,like say alcohol or tobacco! It's sickening isn't it?
Thanks for posting,interesting stuff
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i've tried ketamine four times now, and each time, there was a definite antidepressant effect lasting 1-2 weeks.
I took ketamine last friday, I was severely depressed when i took it, my depression vanished the next day.
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maybe it works for some thats really nice :)
but i know of some people who use ketamine who were depressed before they started doing it and now theyre gone for days or weeks at a time sniffing K in their basements by themself. I'm not saying K doesnt have anti depressant qualities, but overdoing it can lead to more harm than good
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what about mxe then? less side effects
I think a low dose daily would do wonders!
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You would need to buy specifically vials and do precise IM injection (count dosage mg's to 1 kg ) to get into so called K-hole. I know it was used successfully in serious suicidal people, not sure how it would work on those who are coming off mdma, amphetamines , methamphetamine and having severe depression for a few days.
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Easily. All dissociatives aka reassociatives..
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what about mxe then? less side effects
I think a low dose daily would do wonders!
Less side effects? There have been no scientific studies into the safety of MXE. The data that is out there are anecdotal reports from emergency room physicians.
In 2012 the paper 'Methoxetamine: from drug of abuse to rapid-acting antidepressant' was published that speculated on the anti-depressant working of MXE. However, this paper was mainly speculative since too little is known about MXE.
Comparing what's know about Ketamine vs what's know about MXE would be like comparing the titanic with a little toy boat.
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I was in a dual-diagnosis center for almost 2 weeks for taking too much DXM over the course of about 6 months and went into a psychotic break where I tried to kill myself...While there a psychiatrist who has read up and was current on DXM and its effects (which are slim to none due to it being passed on as a good cough suppressant which is a joke) told me that it was one of the fastest acting anti-depressants known. So in a sense I was self-medicating for my depression which he says addicts tend to do. So anyways idk how credible that information is and take it how you want it, just thought it was interesting and was remotely related to drugs with anti-depressive qualities.
As a warning though: I wouldn't recommend taking DXM to get super out of your mind high, as that's when you start to lose a grip on reality and making bad decisions. I've noticed in lower doses that it does have an almost instant anti-depressive attribute, but that's me, and you're not me, as my brain chemistry is probably a lot different.
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While there a psychiatrist who has read up and was current on DXM and its effects (which are slim to none due to it being passed on as a good cough suppressant which is a joke) told me that it was one of the fastest acting anti-depressants known. So in a sense I was self-medicating for my depression which he says addicts tend to do. So anyways idk how credible that information is and take it how you want it, just thought it was interesting and was remotely related to drugs with anti-depressive qualities.
I've noticed in lower doses that it does have an almost instant anti-depressive attribute, but that's me, and you're not me, as my brain chemistry is probably a lot different.
DXM, Ketamine, MXE, PCP all modulate the NMDA receptor system which is suspected of causing these anti-depressant effects. The studies I've seen done with Ketamine are done with very low doses that do not cause any hallucinogenic effects.
There's some literature that suggests that melatonin has a synergistic effect with Ketamine on the anti-depressant effects.
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I heard about this a couple of years ago actually,that ketamine had outstanding results as an anti-depressant,but it's extreme side effects(lol)make it unsuitable for mainstream use.
I suffer with depression myself so it's relevant to me, I tried a very short period of micro-dosing once,but my supply ran out before I could tell if it was effective for me. But we all know drugs are bad for you don't we?Heaven forbid if we risk harming ourselves with illegal drugs,best we stick to the safe ones that the governments approve of,like say alcohol or tobacco! It's sickening isn't it?
Thanks for posting,interesting stuff
It didn't work because I don't think you did it right. In those studies, one big dose was administered and the antidepressant effects lasted 7 to 10 days. Ideally, you'd take ketamine every 10 days to self-medicate. The side effects aren't really bad that way, you'd only get them once a week for a short time. It's way better than SSRIs that give you side effects that, although not as strong, are present all the time, and they don't even have much positive effects. I'm sure most people would prefer tripping once a week than not having any libido and feeling emotionless all the time. Maybe you should try again with a weekly dose.