Silk Road forums
Discussion => Security => Topic started by: mseller on July 01, 2011, 05:26 pm
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Want to say something about different laws in different country and what really mean buyer and seller.
See, here is a thing. To have narcotic substance found anywhere in your posesion is criminal offense. To have money is not.
Here in my country we do not have "intention to purchase narcotics". Sting operation where any LE would pretend to be a seller is illegal.
If you think that is common sense. LE can not have illegal drugs and pretend as seller. They want to catch dealers with drugs(illegal) not buyers with money(legal).
So law does not allow them to "sell" illegal narcotics. They can pretend to be a buyers, with money they does not brake any law so that is allowed but not opposite. Laws applay to all country and nobody is above.Another thing is that narcotic substance must exist and be found in posesion.
Its hard to belive that intent to sell exist in US, its ridicolous. Dealing drugs are not in same category like murder case.
I suggest everybody to go online and read laws to see first hand what is reality and what is not.
Same thing with receive post mail. No persons can be responsable of actions what make third persons. We have not control what we receive as recipient with our mail. With no prove that LE can prove on court that recipient KNOW what is in mail nothing can happen.
Other matter involving that is what could be consequence if package is seized and possible monitoring but that is something other.
Imagine this scenario; large drug cartel could send thousands packages to different peoples from police, gov, senators and "ordinary" mortals. According to law, all of the would be in some way prosecuted..
If anything is seized - BE QUIET! DO NOT TALK WITH POLICE (YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING GOOD FROM THAT) THEY HAVE TO PROVE IT, NOT YOU!
Edit
Sorry but my poor English prevent me often to express myself better.
When I said that no person can be responsable of third persons action, I meant if there is NO proven illegal activity among them. In many cases, that is really difficult to prove beyond a doubt. As I said, LE in my country can not have drugs and pretend to sell them. No drugs found or illegal products - no criminal case.
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It is common practice for LE in the US to sell illegal drugs and bust the buyer. In the US the police bust people every day that way its called a reverse buy. That means that instead of the informant buying from the drug dealer the informant is the drug dealer hence the term reverse buy.
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yea.... you might try another reading... focus on the section that deals with "mens rea"
"No persons can be responsable of actions what make third persons."
You're kidding, right? Let me get this straight: if I hire a hitman to kill my neighbor, then I'm in the clear?
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^^ LOL. Not quite. But I thought your sarcasm was funny 8) ;D
Anyways, I've heard of very far and few between cases, if any, of LEO selling drugs and busting buyers. Maybe soliciting that they have drugs, but not the actual act of selling. And if I were in a buying situation where I got there and there's no drugs to buy, and the situation seems sketchy I'm just gonna dip out...Use common sense, and always keep your mouth shut to the PIGS!
EDIT: lol, no HTML codes here:)
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From what I understand the federal agencies will allow almost anything 2 make the case if its big enough. They are supposed 2 avoid violence, no murder, but they can sell you a kilo of cocaine. They can fry up some heroin and shoot it in2 their arm. Once your so big that the police are busting you with undercovers the game is much different. Informants are easy 2 spot because they have rules they must go by. For instance no informant is permitted 2 have a weapon, so even if he bought drugs the case is throw out. In most small police agency's informants were button up or polo style shirts. The camera is in one of the buttons but there is a large pack that you can feel for if you rub down thier side. Informants are not allowed 2 carry even $1 more than the buy money. I would search for a camera.........if the guy didnt have one but I still had doubts I would make him empty his pockets. I would be looking for the GPS tracking divice that all informants must have. Its usually like an electric car key but only the box, its ez 2 tell its not for a car because it doesnt have keys. But with undercovers they will smoke crack and help you build a silencer 2 murder your wife as long as you have enough dope 2 get em a raise.
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..entrapment in other words...
?!
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From my understanding the entrapment law is almost a myth now adays. It is my believe that all the major fed agencies use entrapment activly. But they word it in a way like............."Yea we sold him a Kilo. But if he hadnt of gotten it from us he woulda got it from a drug dealer" On I would assume they have slicker ways of saying it. Local cops are more afraid of entrapment in SOME areas. But dont county on a state or a fed caring at all.
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From what I understand the federal agencies will allow almost anything 2 make the case if its big enough. They are supposed 2 avoid violence, no murder, but they can sell you a kilo of cocaine. They can fry up some heroin and shoot it in2 their arm. Once your so big that the police are busting you with undercovers the game is much different. Informants are easy 2 spot because they have rules they must go by. For instance no informant is permitted 2 have a weapon, so even if he bought drugs the case is throw out. In most small police agency's informants were button up or polo style shirts. The camera is in one of the buttons but there is a large pack that you can feel for if you rub down thier side. Informants are not allowed 2 carry even $1 more than the buy money. I would search for a camera.........if the guy didnt have one but I still had doubts I would make him empty his pockets. I would be looking for the GPS tracking divice that all informants must have. Its usually like an electric car key but only the box, its ez 2 tell its not for a car because it doesnt have keys. But with undercovers they will smoke crack and help you build a silencer 2 murder your wife as long as you have enough dope 2 get em a raise.
This is almost 100% false.
Informants aren't "required" to wear a wire, GPS tracker, or any other shit like that. They can have whatever money on 'em they want.
What the cops care about are a couple simple things:
a) they need hard evidence of the buy — that can be w/ a wire, sure, but it can also be using a surveillance team in a van, a bugged room, whatever they think is least likely to be discovered and most likely to get good evidence
b) informants should avoid committing more crimes... but obviously, the whole point is that they're undercover, and undercover means doing some illegal shit. This is a matter of whatever deal they got and how valuable their evidence is vs the crimes they're committing in the process vs etc.
So eg many dealers are felons, and in the US felons aren't allowed to have guns, but if they're an informant in a crew that's all strapped, then of course they're going to continue carrying their fucking gun, 'cause if they didn't they'd be a very short lived informant. But if they go murder someone or the like — stuff that's serious and that they can avoid — then they're still on the hook for that.
Informants (and undercover cops) can do drugs, lie, etc. Again, this is part of the "no shit, if they couldn't they wouldn't be in the crew for very long" obvious practicality.
ENTRAPMENT, in the US, is specifically when cops get you to do something that you WOULDN'T otherwise have done on your own. They're allowed to sell you "drugs" (unless it's a long sting, you get arrested as soon as you give money and take the baggie, so the baggie doesn't need to contain real drugs), and they can sell you real drugs if it's a long sting that justifies that.
They're allowed to put unlocked bait cars w/ the key in the ignition on the street. They're allowed to have cops dressed up as hookers on a corner, who can negotiate with johns who approach them. Etc.
What they're *not* allowed to do is be coercive, or try to sell you on it, because then you can argue that you wouldn't have done it (with someone else) if not for their actions. You have to clearly be in the market and approach *them*. But they can be sitting around looking very approachable. ;-)