Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: bynter on June 05, 2012, 10:48 am
-
Now I'm someone relatively new to the world of drugs. My personal experiences with them certainly are limited, but the amount of online research I've done I think is nothing to scoff at. Of all the places I've ever seen, this community is probably the most pro-drug. This place is just full of active drug users. Almost nobody seems to develop addiction on here, and almost all of the site's info regarding people with such a problem seems to be contained in a single 6 page thread.
I guess what I'm trying to get at here is how do people here, people more open minded to drugs than almost anywhere else, elude the dangers of addiction so easily, when drug addiction has become such a prevalent problem? How much truth is there to the vast amounts of propoganda saying that drugs are ,without exception, the scum of the earth? Or do the government's ideals hold little truth in the face of the Erowid philosophy? If you follow the philosophy that if you know what you're putting into your body, what it's effects are, and what responsible use is, will you ever get addicted, or maybe be the victim of some other danger? When you first take meth, can you be instantly addicted? Does addiction come to those who can't cope after it's infrequent use, or just those trying to chase that original high? Are you safe if you maintain yourself as a "Weekend Warrior" sampling different drugs on only occasions? Even if you follow what I outlined as the "Erowid Philosophy", are there still any dangers? and how on earth does Raoul Duke fare as well as he does, in health, law, and finances?
TL;DR version: How do such avid drug users here at Silk Road elude addiction, a problem so much of the rest of the world is in the clutches of?
Please excuse my writing if you find it scatterbrained, it sounded rather poetic as I wrote it. That's also why all that is so damn long.
-
IMO drugs only become an 'issue' when you're life revolves around drugs, rather than drugs revolving around your life, when they start to impact on your health negatively, and you're not able to go 'cold turkey' on them if you really needed too.
This is why i rarely do drugs relationally depending on what they are, and share the experience with others. For me, i don't smoke cigarettes but i smoke a single joint with friends (with toasted tobacco) 3/4 times a week, i've done mdma with friends and at parties 4 times within the space of a year a half and don't want to do any more frequently than that. I do Mephedrone about 5/6 times a year at parties also, and won't be doing it anymore frequently than that. I mean, maybe drugs are a pathway to one another because I do want to try to LSD at some point in my life, because i have come to learn that people get a strong, positive insight to life from a single trip. But if someone said to me would you like to try LSD before i had done the drugs i have done, i probably would have a said a no fo'sure. Drugs are things that should be respected and not abused. I don't feel the need the try opiates, meth or crack or anything just because i've seen people lives get messed up on them after their attitude of 'only going to try it once'. To be fair the only drug i take often is alcohol, which is, at the moment, every weekend without fail and sometimes during the week depending on when everyone goes out. But i guess just harming yourself and ruining your liver and kidneys with alcohol is far more socially acceptable.
-
Drug addiction is mostly taught. From an early age you learn that you can't do drugs because "you will become addicted and ruin your life". If you never heard any of those phrases, recreational drug use would be much easier, since no one would be consciously worried about addiction.
-
Set yourself some rules and NEVER break them. So for example if I was doing shit like heroin/crystal meth I'd say
1. No needles
2. Once every few weeks MAX
3. Know the source
4. No ridiculous doses
5. Check it is safe to mix before adding other drugs to the combo
They are just my personal rules and other people can no doubt manage in different ways but I think that is a very sane way to take the harder drugs without getting addicted. You see very quickly that they are actually very benign when you take them in moderation. The comedown from a single heroin session is no worse than say, a bad hangover for example.
But then things like weed etc.. It strikes to the heart of the question "what is addiction". Is it addiction if you just really like doing something? If you go surfing for 10 hours every day, are you addicted, or do you just really like surfing. Addiction is just ultimately a word. But I would say that drug use becomes a problem, when the negatives outweigh the positives.
If you take drugs every now and then.. and sure we've all thrown up in a restaurant toilet before or said some dumb shit or got into a fight or made a fool of ourselves or whatever, that's just normal life.. there isn't a problem with that. But if you're running up debts, having withdrawals, needing drugs all the time, etc etc, then that's when shit is going down the drain and you need to have a long hard look in the mirror.
Just keep it cool.
-
Set yourself some rules and NEVER break them. So for example if I was doing shit like heroin/crystal meth I'd say
1. No needles
2. Once every few weeks MAX
3. Know the source
4. No ridiculous doses
5. Check it is safe to mix before adding other drugs to the combo
Good list, I keep myself to that as well. Although I would add:
6. Don't buy if you don't have the money!
-
addiction is a very legitimate and serious issue, and it seems one is saying its all psychosomatic which i completely disagree with. addiction is caused by neurobiological changes which actually cause long term rewiring and transcriptional alterations in the area of the nucleus accumbens which controls motivation. the release of dopamine reinforces the seeking of the reward which caused the dopamine release, in effect hijacking the same mechanism that causes you to have the desire and motivation to do all pleasurable activities, from eating to drinking, even sex and causes the drug to become another of these rewards, depending on the amounts of re-wiring the drug seeking can over shadow even the motivation to eat regularly or reproduce... by which point ones family and friends as well as the other important things in life just cant compete with the drug reward, the motivation is lost and many aspects of ones life suffers
i have fairly good control of my drug use, which was mostly recreational. however, addiction slowly creeps up on you. i controlled everything from benzos to coke, mdma, cigarettes, amphetamines, dissociatives, psychedelics, and used opioids for a long time without too much trouble. i used some things even daily for months and then would decide i wanted to stop and was able no problem. but then my opioid use progressed from random, to every month on a weekend, to every weekend, then just once after a hard weekday... before i knew it i was doing it everyday and i literally couldnt stop... or else i would be horribly sick. the craving is unimaginable and the physical withdrawal is one of the worst things a person can experience. the problem is i thought i had it under control just like everything else. now i still have a serious problem and have been reducing my dosage to try and detox soon. its horrible, i woke up and the first thing that comes to mind is dope. stupid and i hate it. even if i am able to stop using everyday, i will have a life long problem but will hopefully get to the point where many people who are chippers revert back from everyday to a more regulated less often use... still addiction though. or there are those who are like i quit doing H, but i take methadone or subs, lol... theyre still using an opioid everyday and are addicted to H still
and just for the record, i dont shoot even, just snort... those guidelines mentioned were things i followed initially, and still got myself a problem
i also use weed everyday which progressed from recreational to addiction, but i dont see it as big a problem since if its not around im alright without it, but i still have the desire to spend money and effort trying to obtain it if possible... i dont drink either, which i think is way worse than weed and many people are extremely addicted to as well. still wasted an insane amount of money on drugs. my situation is confounded by the fact i also use opioids and mary j for medical purposes as well though which helped increase the frequency of use to where it became a problem. the most important one i started letting slide was the frequency, thats huge! if you say only once a month stick to it! never ever allow yourself to break that rule you set BEFORE you ever start using the drug, and dont change it after you start.
the problem is most people have certain genetic polymorphisms that produce a increased likelihood one will obtain and increased reward from a certain drug compared to others, or one in the dopamine circuit could make an individual more susceptible to forming a habit to any rewarding drug.... if you find your weakness youre in for trouble even if it starts out as recreational. if you use a drug youre susceptible to, you may simply not have the control to follow your set limitations after a number of uses.
i dont really think you assumption people here arent addicted is incorrect. sure there are many just using SR to obtain the occasional drug theyve never been able to find. but there are also lots of people here feeding serious habits as well. SR is too unreliable and undependable to maintain most habits though, so SR is supplemental for these people generally. mine is completely supported by SR which is a large factor keeping my dosages low.
-
I guess it becomes a problem once it starts to cause real problems: Being unable to function, or the point where the drugs take up a significant part of your income.
There certainly are genetic factors that make you more or less prone to addiction, but those aren't always that apparent: if you are prone to addiction it doesn't mean you will be come addicted to something (for example if you never even try taking something), so having parents that are not addicted is never a clear indication that you aren't likely to get addicted quickly.
Addiction to nicotine may be a decent indicator: if you are a hardcore smoker, its likely you would be prone to addiction to other substances too.
But it any case, things like opiates are so good they are addictive to many people, and should be taken with the utmost care.
-
Like anything in life, it only becomes a problem when you decide it is. Nobody else can make that decision for you, though most people seem to think they can.
-
Set yourself some rules and NEVER break them. So for example if I was doing shit like heroin/crystal meth I'd say
1. No needles
2. Once every few weeks MAX
3. Know the source
4. No ridiculous doses
5. Check it is safe to mix before adding other drugs to the combo
Good list, I keep myself to that as well. Although I would add:
6. Don't buy if you don't have the money!
A list of rules is a great thing to have! +1
There's a bunch of drugs that may or not be addictive that I won't touch.
You've just have to make rules before you start anything, or else you just keep changing them as you go..and then you become a mess.
sdesu
-
Definitely agree with no needles
I remember dabbing into something...(insert really any drug i guess besides a psychedelic) and then hanging with my family or some family event when i was like 19 ...
I felt like such an asshole. But thats growing up I guess.
but all in all you know when your over doing it ..that voice in your head kinda just lets ya know....kinda like when your pushing the boundaries when you eat....in the back of your head your like "you know you really didnt need that last bite, your such a fucking douche....i cant believe you jerked off to your cousin yesterday man."
i kinda added another personal issue. sorry.
-
Definitely agree with no needles
I remember dabbing into something...(insert really any drug i guess besides a psychedelic) and then hanging with my family or some family event when i was like 19 ...
I felt like such an asshole. But thats growing up I guess.
but all in all you know when your over doing it ..that voice in your head kinda just lets ya know....kinda like when your pushing the boundaries when you eat....in the back of your head your like "you know you really didnt need that last bite, your such a fucking douche....i cant believe you jerked off to your cousin yesterday man."
i kinda added another personal issue. sorry.
haha. kind of reminds me of something Louis C.K. would say.
-
Definitely agree with no needles
I remember dabbing into something...(insert really any drug i guess besides a psychedelic) and then hanging with my family or some family event when i was like 19 ...
I felt like such an asshole. But thats growing up I guess.
but all in all you know when your over doing it ..that voice in your head kinda just lets ya know....kinda like when your pushing the boundaries when you eat....in the back of your head your like "you know you really didnt need that last bite, your such a fucking douche....i cant believe you jerked off to your cousin yesterday man."
i kinda added another personal issue. sorry.
haha. kind of reminds me of something Louis C.K. would say.
so true lmao
-
I have been clean off heroin for a while now but I honestly don't know how people use it recreationally. I started off shooting it right away. I only snorted it one time and it was when I was in prison because I got my hands on some and didn't have a needle. I've been using drugs for about 50 years (mostly LSD) but heroin absolutely destroyed me. It took everything from me. I lost 3 of my brothers to heroin overdoses and countless friends. I honestly wouldn't wish heroin addiction on my worst enemy, not to mention all the rehabs, detoxes, and meth clinics. It's the highest high followed by the lowest low. And the low is much lower than the high.
oh my god man, my heart goes out to you and your family. Im sorry for your struggle and your loss. Im glad to hear youve been clean from that man, really.
yeah i was close to purchasing heroin to smoke. I dont have the slightest hint of a possibility of shooting anything because im just a pussy when it comes to that at doctor visits, so doing that solo is impossible. I brought that up at a party once and 3 different people freaked out and said "NO!" like simultaneously, each one saying the moment they snorted or smoked it, they were hooked and struggled to stop...they didnt use heavily at all but they said a weening off had to happen.
-
Drug addiction is way overblown by the government and media.
But it's hidden by many addicts, who either can't admit their addiction or are ashamed of it.
Which means that we should assume that the actual proportion of drug users who become addicted is somewhere between what the government would have you believe on one end, and what people here, on Erowid, Bluelight, 420chan and other druggie-oriented communities would have you believe, on the other.
But of course, the issue isn't black-white-and-grey. It's very nuanced. For one thing, there's no such thing as "drug addiction". There's heroin addiction and cocaine addiction and so on and so forth. These are chemical addictions, where the body comes to depend on a specific substance being taken in order to function normally. A lot of drugs are addictive: caffeine, nicotine, cocaine, opiates, benzos, sugar. And a lot of drugs aren't addictive: weed, psychedelics, alcohol, ketamine, MXE, MDMA.
And then there's psychological addiction, which isn't a property of any specific drug, but of the drug user's personality. You can't be chemically addicted to alcohol or weed, but you can be psychologically addicted to both these things. And some drugs make this process a lot easier because they're very good or have a harsh come-down. MDMA and ketamine are prime examples, K of the latter and MDMA of both.
People with addictive personalities can become addicted to anything: drugs, gambling, sex, danger (oh the adrenaline rush!), biting their fingernails, work, working out, eating, going to concerts, playing sudoku, hoarding, ANYTHING. If it happens to be a drug, oh well. More bad press for us. And of course, recreational drugs are supposed to be fun - otherwise we wouldn't do them - so some people can easily end up getting both kinds of addictions for the same drug. Heroin is the best example of this.
Finally, there's the third element of addiction, which is the formation of a habit. You always have coffee and a smoke after lunch, you smoke weed every night before you go to bed, you always take a few shots of whiskey after work just to take the edge off. You might be determined to quit, but if you let your guard down you'll relapse without even noticing it, because it's automatic. I have a friend who tried several times to quit smoking. He had no problem with getting off the nicotine, and the cravings were easy to subdue, but he couldn't feel satisfied after a meal unless he had a cigarette. It wasn't about craving a smoke after lunch, it was about the lunch missing something, being incomplete. It was about the ritual. He finally bought an e-cig to suck at after eating. Two months later he bought his last pack, and he has been clean for over a year - but he still smokes his e-cig after eating, despite his charges having no nicotine.
It's hard and tiring to guard against all this at all times, so preventing addiction isn't as easy as some people here would have you believe (it does get a billion times easier if you follow Kappacino's pre-determined rule advice). And of course, nobody has ever claimed that kicking an addiction once you have it is a walk in the park - that is some grueling, will-crushing torment you're in for if it gets so far. But anti-drug propaganda purposefully mixes everything up. They'd love nothing more than to have everyone believe that you can get hopelessly addicted to "the mary-jew-anas" after a single toke, and that you'll need months of rehab and anti-psychotic medication to go back to being a productive member of society. Drugs are bad, mmmmmkay? Every drug is a Substance D. Bullshit.
You know what else is bullshit? ODing. For fuck's sake, measuring your dose is basic. You need to be extremely irresponsible to not do that, and if you are then the human species will become better by your accidental suicide. There are a very few substances (like Bromo-dragonFLY) that have lethal doses dangerously close to the active dose, and a good number of others that can get close if you build up a tolerance (again, heroin). In these cases, the fault doesn't lie so completely with the user if an OD happens. But most substances are pretty much impossible to OD on, barring serotonin syndrome, pre-existing heart or respiratory conditions or dangerous combinations. There has never been an OD of weed, cigs or LSD, EVER. And it's not likely that there will ever be one. On the other hand, water overdoses (aka drowning) are sadly common, and water isn't even psychoactive. Let's get that petition going to ban hydrogen hydroxide! It's destroying our youth! And a lot of our old folk, who have taken to snorting it after falling down in the bathtub (oh god they BATHE in it! How depraved!).
There have been 2c-p ODs by people who mistook it for another substance with a much higher active dose. They were also irresponsible, they trusted the wrong people.
As for the mental risks, most drugs only affect your mind for as long as the high lasts, so it's good to remember that when deciding when and where to take them, and if you're freaking out try to remember that you've taken a mind-altering substance and that it'll pass eventually (this is much easier said than done, but not impossible). A few can trigger latent psychoses or cause a full-out psychotic break (especially hallucinogens and stims). Frequent high-dose use, beyond what is responsible or healthy for the body, also tends to be unhealthy for the mind. We need to tread carefully here and examine things on a case-by-case basis. Always err on the side of caution.
All this great big wall of text is here basically to say that, if you're responsible, disciplined and aware of the risks (and stay as far away from heroin as you can without leaving the planet), you don't need to be afraid of your drugs. But if you're irresponsible, or if you break your rules, or if you don't take your drugs seriously, they have a very real danger of fucking you up. They CAN kill you, or make you kill yourself either by accident or on purpose, or leave you permanently scarred, mentally and/or psychologically. The burned-out meth-head who turns to prostitution and petty theft to support a habit is, sadly, not a myth.
But whatever horrible crap you might put yourself through because of drugs, they're not even 10% as bad as the official story says they are. Well, except for Krokodil. That's some nasty, demonic shit right there. It makes H look like goddamn Flintstones vitamins.
-
TL;DR version: How do such avid drug users here at Silk Road elude addiction, a problem so much of the rest of the world is in the clutches of?
You're making a fundamental assumption here (that SR users have lower addiction rates) that I consider unsound. It's just a slight flaw in your data set: absolutely everything on this forum is anecdotal evidence self-reported by a self-selecting population. Just because no one's TALKING about addiction here is no reason to think it isn't happening.
That said -- the post about having rules is a good one. Me, I've only been interested in cannabis and hallucinogens. Part of the reason is because the physical addiction risk is minimal. I do know that pot can be habit-forming, but I have rules on that too:
1. I don't do it at night if I have to work in the morning, because I've noticed it tends to make me sleep later and feel less motivated the next day.
2. Once I feel high, I stop and don't take another hit for at least an hour; I don't do it to excess. I did a crazy amount of it once, as an experiment, and it drove me to near suicidal depression for three days. I have no desire to repeat that experiment.
3. The important and inviolate one: I don't do it at all when my kids are in the house. I'm a divorced dad, so this is a minority of the time, but if there's any kind of crisis I need to be in my right mind and able to act responsibly, and drive if need be.
Perhaps more importantly, though, #3 is my litmus test. If I ever find myself wanting pot so much that I end up putting it AHEAD of my kids' presence, that will be the day that I admit I'm addicted and have a problem. It hasn't yet been that kind of temptation.
-
TL;DR version: How do such avid drug users here at Silk Road elude addiction, a problem so much of the rest of the world is in the clutches of?
You're making a fundamental assumption here (that SR users have lower addiction rates) that I consider unsound. It's just a slight flaw in your data set: absolutely everything on this forum is anecdotal evidence self-reported by a self-selecting population. Just because no one's TALKING about addiction here is no reason to think it isn't happening.
That may be true, considering how much propoganda is out there, how illegal they can be, how addictive they can be, and how many lives they've ruined, it just sort of stunning how casual people can still be about it.
-
Horizons you make some good points, but what do you mean you cant be chemically addicted to alcohol? you most certainly can become physically dependent on alcohol, and it also causes down stream dopamine release modulating the reward centers directly as well. withdrawal from a chemical addiction to EtOH can even be deadly generally due to grand mal seizures...
the difference between the activities you are saying people become addicted to and the drugs of abuse, as i mentioned... dopamine is what largely controls the reward and motivation circuit signalling, when you consume a drug that reverses the transporter and dumps dopamine into the synaptic cleft as coke, or by inhibiting the inhibitory gabanergic neurons as opioids, or whatever mechanism produces the downstream dopamine increases, the signal produced is extremely exaggerated compared to a normal reward signal, resulting in an accelerated progression of the addiction
also, in reference to OD i think you should have more respect for the many of lives which have been lost due to drug overdoses. basically all of which could be avoided if drugs were of a known concentration/quality with proper labeling from licensed and regulated production sources.
i am mainly thinking about the numerous overdoses caused by say the RC companies which have accidentally sent, Br-dragonfly in one instance instead of 2c-b-fly and many other similar instances which have resulted in numerous deaths unfortunately. other cases such as when gear on the street is cut with dangerous combinations or worse something with hot spots like fent which has caused deaths that cant even be prevented by testing the potency completely.
i do understand your point about those caused by irresponsible usage or those trying to push the limit to get where they want to be, or worse the idiots who try to weigh mg dosages accurately with a hundredths scale... and like the guy on SR who took 40 mg of something, thinking it was 4 mg cause they dont know the difference between .01 g and .001 g
in reference to my addiction, for the most part i have done really well in school and am still continuing my education beyond my B.S. currently. i spend money i shouldnt but not really anything i cant afford... still pay rent and eat etc, just out like ten grand in the last year at least, which isnt funny. relationships have suffered some though. although id probably have more motivation to quit if something really awful had happened cause of my use yet, currently i just cannot fucking quit. it all just started with oxycodone too, not even H, so dont underestimate prescription meds...
- modest mouse
-
TL;DR version: How do such avid drug users here at Silk Road elude addiction, a problem so much of the rest of the world is in the clutches of?
You're making a fundamental assumption here (that SR users have lower addiction rates) that I consider unsound. It's just a slight flaw in your data set: absolutely everything on this forum is anecdotal evidence self-reported by a self-selecting population. Just because no one's TALKING about addiction here is no reason to think it isn't happening.
That may be true, considering how much propoganda is out there, how illegal they can be, how addictive they can be, and how many lives they've ruined, it just sort of stunning how casual people can still be about it.
Look, people have been using drugs since the dawn of time. Addiction is a relatively new term when you really think about it. Its simple really, addiction is in our dna. Drug addicts will never go away, no matter how much money society spends on prisons or drug treatment programs it just wont happen. We are all addicts. Some to drugs or alcohol, some to other things such as going to the gym, eating out, watching tv, surfing the web, etc. We are addictive as a species by nature. If we find something we like, we want more of it.
Is it because that drugs are illegal that its becomes a problem when someone becomes addicted to them? Look at beer, beer is the third most consumed beverage in the world next to water and tea. Why is this? Because people like to escape from their shitty little lives, and shitty little problems, and drugs and alcohol help them do just that. Its only when a person can no longer maintain that "shitty life" to the norms (ie go to work, pay their bills, etc.) of society that it becomes a problem and they are labeled an "addict". Why can a person who drinks a six pack a day not be considered an addict, but if that same person sniffs a gram of coke a day he or she is labeled a drug addict and needs treatment or jail time? Its all the same, one is just considered socially acceptable.
Alcohol use is acceptable in our society, yet it has ruined MORE lives than Heroin use. How many times do you read about a car accident where a Heroin user drove head on into a vehicle in the opposite lane of traffic and killed a whole innocent family? Yet when Sundays football game is over, and all the people file out of the stadium plastered on $12 dollar beers and get in their cars to drive home, accidents like these happen all the time. Whats worse, a Heroin user nodding out in his living room safely on his couch, or a person 3x the legal limit driving a 1/2 ton pickup 70mph on the highway surrounded by other vehicles?
The united states is ran by the rich, who consider it acceptable to have a few (or a shit load)cocktails on their yachts and lay in the sun. For the rest of the country, the hard working, back breaking, work force of the country, who dont own yachts, a nice strong dose of whatever drug floats their boat, is there way to relax and forget about their problems.
Why are the rich not labeled addicts? They are addicted to money and its the reason the US economy is as fucked up as it is, and just one more reason people turn to drugs, btw. I dont understand why the rich always bitch about taxes when they make millions of dollars a year. YOU MADE A MILLION DOLLARS LAST YEAR! WHO CARES IF YOU HAVE TO PAY ANOTHER 100 GRAND IN TAXES! IS $900,000 DOLLARS NOT ENOUGH MONEY FOR YOU?!BTW YOU DONT EVEN WORK HARD! YOU GO TO WORK IN ARMANI SUITS AND JERK EACH OTHER AND FUCK YOUR SECRETARY....arghhh im just jealous cause i come home from work everyday smelling like sweat and grease...FML....
I know im ranting, but another thing- Why is it so hard to understand that people come to this forum, which is a DRUG FORUM FOR A MAIL ORDER DRUG SITE, to discuss drugs. I think most people here are RESPONSIBLE drug users, which I know is a considered an oxymoron to the uneducated masses, and are just looking for like minded individuals who share the common belief that drugs arent "EVIL" and can be used responsibly and safely. Im casual about my discussions of drugs because i dont consider my drug use to be a problem. The only problem i have with drugs, is that i sometimes run out ;)
-
Set yourself some rules and NEVER break them. So for example if I was doing shit like heroin/crystal meth I'd say
1. No needles
2. Once every few weeks MAX
3. Know the source
4. No ridiculous doses
5. Check it is safe to mix before adding other drugs to the combo
Good list, I keep myself to that as well. Although I would add:
6. Don't buy if you don't have the money!
7. Do it only if you're feeling good and happy.
8. If you don't feel like doing it, then DON'T do it! Turn away!
-
I pretty much agree with everything Joeyjojojr said above.
I am a very well educated person and I research every drug I plan to use. Only illicit drugs I've used are mdma, cocaine, weed, acid, and some RCs. I love mdma. I do it at once every 2-3 months. Weed I smoke few times a week. Cocaine, acid and RCs every now and then. I do not consider myself addicted to any of these substances--meaning if I completely stopped using them I would not suffer any physical withdraws. But I do not see any noticeable negative effects (like the government wants you to think) so why should I stop? Because society says its bad? If most people think for themselves and do their own research on a lot of these drugs they will see that they're not as bad as they originally thought. In fact, MDMA has helped me tremendously improve my life and relationships. I wouldn't be the person I am today without it. On a side note--I am one of the top people in my class. But wait doesn't mdma put holes in your brain?!?!?! Stupid idiots. Keep drinking your bottles of wine every night thinking its "okay" because its legal. Its just as much of a drug as others that they are scared shitless of.
-
- its all relative, but
- if you resort to selling your belongings..
- you feel its taking control of your life instead of you controlling it
- clearly you and your health are suffering
- never have any cash left but are always high..
- resorting to crime to fund your habit
- have told your partner/gf/bf or parents to go to hell and have come to the sudden realisation as you're no longer high, alone & penny-less.
-
Some great informed insights into the complex issue that is addiction. Bottom-line: addiction begins when you absolutely NEED to do a drug on a daily basis just to feel 'normal'. Everything else (friends/family/money/health) becomes secondary to achieving that daily objective.
Addiction will make you do crazy shit: when I was a junky for 2 years I would drive 800 miles (one way) just to score less than a $100. worth of drugs. As soon as I scored I would fix in the nearest gas station bathroom after work and would drive home on the nod. I spent money recklessly: using my employer's credit card to get thousands in cash advances for dope. It took a massive overdose on a 'speed ball' (coke+heroin combo) which left me dead in a hotel room to finally end my Heroin 'run'. This overdose was the "straw that broke the camel's back" effectively ending my marriage and a successful career. I spent 4 months in the hospital recovering from that fix. Just some advice for newbies: don't do speed balls. Very fucking dangerous.
One of the best books I have ever read on the subject is: In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounter's With Addiction by Dr. Gabor Mate. He is a major advocate of harm reduction for the thousands of drug addicts that reside in the poorest neighborhood in Canada: East Vancouver. He was a major supporter of the first and only government funded drug injection clinic in North America: a civilized service (having used it on visits to that city) that has contributed to a significant decrease in drug overdoses and in HIV/AIDS infections. His book is full of compassion and wisdom and is available to read on-line for free via Google books or PDF Format. Strongly recommended. For information on the Vancouver Health Authority's safe injection site (Insite) check out their web-site at: supervisedinjection.vch.ca/home. Any I.V. drug user that visits Vancouver is encouraged to visit this successful experiment in Harm Reduction. p.s. some of the best heroin/coke in the world is nearby for purchase.
Describing addiction as a 'hungry ghost' is an apt metaphor: in Buddhism a 'hungry ghost' is one whose needs are insatiable,never satisfied, and never content. A 'Hungry Ghost' is a drug-addict who has the great misfortune to live in a society that criminalizes their genetic or neurological disposition and denies them access to humane harm reduction services.
Further recommended reading: Phillip K.Dicks classic 'A Scanner Darkly' which was brilliantly exposes the huge scam known as the 'War on Drugs' and was actually translated into a very good film by Richard Linkletter (of 'Slacker' fame) and stars Keanu Reeves (and ironically) Robert Downey Jr.
Of course, P.K.Dick, along with William Burroughs is ESSENTIAL reading for any illegal drug user. 93. Hassan.
"Drug misuse is not a disease, it's a decision: like the decision to stand in front of a moving car."
Phillip K. Dick
-
- 'Spun', good movie but perfect example how not to let drugs control your life; 2 dudes drove 400 miles whilst high only to get to their destination
not knowing why they set out on the journey in the first place...haha
-
From personal experience, Being addicted is fuckin obvious to a user.
You know exactly when your crossing that line of " Recreational " to " Daily Ritual ".
When you start using a dedicated substance or, even a multitude of substances everyday, just so you feel like your " Functioning ".
Well in reality, your not functioning, your body is an engine, and your trying to run it on pure poison without even caring about the effects its taking on your social life, your health, and your mental state.
Theres so many signs along the road to becoming addicted that people should look out for when doing drugs.
Just pace yourself....cause the longer you wait to get high again, your tolerance will lower, thus your next high is going to be just as good as the one you last experienced. Why would you wanna just keep having to use more and more drugs, to try to feel the same mount of euphoria you could feel by just stopping for a week or more? Its a waste of money, and its a waste of your health!
ALWAYS DO DRUGS IN MODERATION
Daily habits of drug use become incredibly hard to break the longer you use....so quit or lessen your doses while you still have the will power!
-
I would somewhat disagree with the above:
You can be very addicted to smoking tobacco, but still function very well and never get into real trouble with it. After all, tobacco is widely available and not expensive enough the only way to pay for it is through crime.
Obviously people would think this is not significant since tobacco is a legal product, but scientifically it is not that different from many popular illegal drugs at all.
-
If you give drugs the respect they deserve by knowing that addiction is a possibility, you should be OK. I think addiction is more about who you are and how you act then it is about the drugs themselves. Case in point - Alcohol. The addiction is so bad that withdrawal symptoms can actually kill you, it has many health hazards and causes many deaths from overdose etc etc. Yet only a small number of people actually develop a problem with it. I think that shows that it's more about the person than the drug.
-
moksha glad to hear someone in a similar situation has gotten their situation under control. happy to know you seem to be doing well if you were dealing with similar struggles. still have some control of my doses, and am slowly decreasing to try and ween off
jj make some good points as well... didnt mind the "rant" lol
i actually feel myself that it is the freaking status of the drug control legislation that even forced me into this situation in the first place. i have a legit medical condition that responds best to fairly low doses of opioids, yet its not really commonly prescribed at all especially for someone who is relatively young comparatively for possibly putting on opioids long term. honestly with the regular use i have felt better with my condition physically than ever before, and my anxiety is completely relieved as well, i replaced numerous only partially helpful medications with one fairly low dose of an opioid. now even when i just use to maintain i still have to worry about not being able to get more and becoming very ill. eventually i wasnt able to afford them either so i switched to a cheaper but more stigmatized option, H. which is actually saving me an enormous amount of money but makes me feel like more of an addict. it is just society and the laws that make me feel like such a shitty person for using drugs and make me feel so addicted. if the docs would just prescribe oxy or hydro for me or i could buy them legally myself then i would be just a patient, not a H addicted "junky" in peoples eyes.
think its ridiculous too that the most damaging drugs are just as addictive, alcohol and tobacco, yet are actually legal. i mean, it was freaking easier to quit using cocaine, benzos, mdma, (everything but my doc, opi) after frequent use than it was to quit smoking cigs after low use. i couldnt kill myself with the half of bud i have even if i tired : ) yet nicotine is one of the strongest poisons known.
-
A simple question, requires a simple answer;
When you experience problems in your life that are a result of your recreational drug use, your recreational drug use has become a problem.
Example: You have spent so much money on recreational drug use, that you can no longer afford to pay your bills and it has affected your credit rating.
-
it becomes a problem when you spend more than 50% of your time unhappy!
Once you use drugs you will be changed forever, so try to find the best in everything.
-
and how on earth does Raoul Duke fare as well as he does, in health, law, and finances?
i feel honoured to be the example in your OP! only just read this.
i can only answer - i'm not enough of an idiot that i don't know when to stop. i'm not saying i'm adverse to addiction - i just can't kick cigarettes and i have tried pretty much everything to quit them, and i'm not saying i'm not an idiot when it comes to certain things - i had a big coke habit back in the day when i was young and stupid and i started selling it to fund my habit, but instead of rehab and all that shit basically i got bored with it. i grew out of it if you like. i still do it nearly every other week, but because i'm not doing it all the time i enjoy it a lot more, and now i'm comfortable with having 1 or 2 lines and don't feel the need to finish the rest of the contents of the bag in one sitting. a gram can last me a month now.
i nearly got hooked on H but i caught it pretty much straight away, had a bad week with the WD's and now it's just chalked up to an experience. i'm glad i did it because now i'm not always wondering about what it's like, but i wouldn't wish that experience on anyone
my health isn't the greatest; i don't have any problems, i'm just unfit, mainly due to cigarettes. like a lot of people on here i eat healthily and i go to the gym and swim regularly.
i keep the drugs in check by having a full life outside drugs, i have many other interests and i have a job i enjoy doing, so that stops me getting wasted on week nights. most of the time anyway.
i have been pretty lucky when it comes to the law considering the amount of money i made selling drugs IRL, but i never under estimated the police - people who think they can outsmart the law are arrogant idiots. i never made this mistake, took the necessary precautions and i'm glad to say i got out of the game scott free.
financially i've always said to myself if i have to borrow money to buy drugs i'll have to take a long hard look at the way my life is going, and so far i've got to say it's going pretty good.
i am fairly strong minded (apart from cigs) and have always had a pretty positive outlook on life, but overall i'd say i am a pretty lucky bloke, i've taken more than my fair share of risks in life and so far nothing too serious has crept up and bit me on the arse. yet.
so there you go - everyone's different, and that's my particular story.
i do agree with OldSchool though - once you use drugs your mind is never the same. not necessarily in a bad way, but your way of thinking is permanently altered
-
I always KNEW that I had to avoid heroin as I really liked most drugs I used! Only weed would be a daily use drug which is kinda normal in the UK.
My only addiction came with amphetamine! that was recreational use turning into the point whereby you liked the high so much that coming down seemed dull and boring.
Another part of that addiction is the socialising. I was lucky at the time and had time off work and compensation from some work accident that we dreamed up. ;D
I knew a lot of musicians so most night we had parties and various gigs, lifts to pubs and clubs and living the life!
Back then there was little coke around. Well it was there but so expensive that even guys with money turned it down and took amphetamine which was cheap and mostly good quality.
I had a 'binge' which lasted like 6 months. i slept of course but would sleep 24 hrs and wake up feeling bad but after breakfast another 100mg or so would wake me up and get me busy.
I almost slipped up - what kept me ok was diet (always ate on that stuff no matter what) plus the fact that 6 months on speed did not make me have to sell the car! Not like coke!
I realized things were bad when I started hallucinating when called into work. I'd ben up for days - not ate well - and could not even face a pint in the pub.
So I stopped using and made sure I gave myself 6 months on the wagon. I done that and abstained fr longer. I eventually realised that if I did use to just buy in grams! Not half an ounce at a time! At least! And before it was cut for the street! Dealer always asked his vendor 'how much can we rip him off for?'. But a friend was vending so I got the untouched. I'd say 25mg of that geear would see me running about the house and garden these days!
MDMA was never a problem. It was so good I knew it was a 'special drug' on my list of shit to take a few times a year. Amphetamine, coke, MDMA and mushrooms, LSD, Valium and of course some of the drug i woud choose before all others: weed ;D
I could always pay my bills but that means nothing. All it means it i could afford to abuse a drug and pay the bills also. Lucky it was speed! Heroin gets expensive, coke also. Speed generally has a point at which yu know its unhealthy to do daily.
I knew a guy took it daily for 20 years. He ended up in a psych ward. Not bad deal really as he was healthy physically. He ate well.
Cigarette use is a recreational drug gone bad. At 2 BTC a pack in the UK you may as well say your smoking 14 BTC a week - 14 BTC could buy things way more interesting than cigarettes!
And love - I got addicted to that also. You know - love is a drug - endorphins and whatever.
If it come to my women or my drug its my women. She is a drug but I do have affairs with other drugs!
-
Good read RD, loved that thread about trying heroin a while back as well. Sounds like you have pretty similar attitudes\experiences to me, never touched cigs though but caffeine definitely plays that role sufficiently.
cheers mate. yeah, out of everything i've done i'd say don't try cigarettes - waste of fucking time and money. with regards to H - if you want to try it just get a quarter gram or half gram and make sure you don't get any more when thats gone - that's where i went wrong, i bought another gram. its not a waste of time or money to just see what the fuss is about. and it IS very nice.
and to answer another question by the OP - i don't think you can get addicted to ANYTHING by trying it once, so all that some people say about getting hooked on heroin after 1 go is complete bollocks. you can appreciate how nice it is, but you're not clucking for it the next day at all. took me a few weeks of dabbling to get into it, and it was never a fiending type thing, if anything i didn't psychologically need to do it, but my way of thinking just started 'fuck it, i'm gonna have a bump tonight'. when i stopped my fucking body let me know about it though! damn, i wouldn't wish that on an enemy
-
Good read RD, loved that thread about trying heroin a while back as well. Sounds like you have pretty similar attitudes\experiences to me, never touched cigs though but caffeine definitely plays that role sufficiently.
cheers mate. yeah, out of everything i've done i'd say don't try cigarettes - waste of fucking time and money. with regards to H - if you want to try it just get a quarter gram or half gram and make sure you don't get any more when thats gone - that's where i went wrong, i bought another gram. its not a waste of time or money to just see what the fuss is about. and it IS very nice.
and to answer another question by the OP - i don't think you can get addicted to ANYTHING by trying it once, so all that some people say about getting hooked on heroin after 1 go is complete bollocks. you can appreciate how nice it is, but you're not clucking for it the next day at all. took me a few weeks of dabbling to get into it, and it was never a fiending type thing, if anything i didn't psychologically need to do it, but my way of thinking just started 'fuck it, i'm gonna have a bump tonight'. when i stopped my fucking body let me know about it though! damn, i wouldn't wish that on an enemy
Yeah I love being able to say I've never had a cigarette. Can I ask when the withdrawal feelings started? I barely had any withdrawal from stopping oxy, but I've heard the physical symptoms of H can be a lot worse in that regard.
Halfway through the "Versus War on Drugs Debate, OP's question seems to be quite fundamental to the debate, if anyone's interested I'll post the link below, really excellent debate and you gotta love Russel Brand's input.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSrN2zIRwN8
It's about the same as the worst flu you've ever had, but tenfold. :(
-
i'm smoking a lot of skunk lately so my memory is a bit fucked, but i think this is the time line - i finished my last bit of H on the friday night, and i did have a bit of a blow out with it so i was feeling pretty sick saturday morning anyway - 4 or 5 bumps in a night would always do that to me. felt ok saturday evening through to sunday afternoon, then started feeling a bit achey sunday night, had the worst nights sleep because i was aching - you know when you're dehydrated through a massive booze session and it feels like your kidneys ache the next morning - that's exactly what it felt like. monday morning, probably helped by a shit nights sleep, it felt like i had been hit by a train, i felt as if i'd done a few rounds with Lennox Lewis, properly beaten up ALL monday. didn't feel sick, just battered and flu-like, totally lethargic, no will to do anything, not much of an appetite. had another shit nights sleep and felt pretty much the same tuesday. tuesday night i think i managed to get to sleep about 7am wednesday morning! then i was up again about 9am. started feeling better physically around thursday but then the depression kicked in. feeling down all thursday and friday day time, then i got shit faced friday night and that cheered me up a bit :) still miserable over the weekend and i think the following monday the depression started to lift.
not the most fun i've ever had in a week! and all because i bought the gram - none of this shit would have happened if i left it alone after my first quarter g tester. the 'if you're thinking of trying heroin' thread has the exact time for everything as it was like a live comedown commentary, but i think the above is pretty accurate.
-
Good read RD - I got a close friend who has an H habit. He works a good job and always looks ok. Not sure if he is still using but he would clean his gear and was once a lucky candidate for some pilot scheme were addicts got pure diamorphine, the needles, the entire works you need.
I had to get some H for a buddy in jail - lucky someone else came through as I don't like buying it. Mainly because I do not use so could buy a gram of shit and not know it from top grade Afghan 'off the boat'.
I could not afford a H habit! I know I am a candidate for addiction. I know the first hit of H I took I'd be ill - likely crawl into bed - recover enough to have another smoke and that would be it. Addicted in two little smokes! Bing!
I get codeine so I always got the option of chilling on that. Sure, codeine would not feel much to anyone using H but maybe you can get to your docs and get some as it would allow a 'night in' without going for broke!
Good luck mate. Its not worth it unless your rich. My mate can afford a habit but of course he says he wished he had every penny he spent on heroin because he added it up to maybe £500,000 over the years.
And the skunk! I forgot were I stashed mine! ;D
Seriously though - try some Sativa for H withdrawal daytime. Try to keep busy bro. I got off speed by sleeping for a week and then being busy.
Later people.
Were did I stash that bud? ;D
Actually - some skunk is fine for memory. I know skunk whacks people using H. A few tokes of good skunk is all most H users need.
Try some Sativa. Makes me remember were I put the Indica! 8)
-
Having been addicted to every hard drug available at some point, as well as cigarettes (they go hand in hand with hard drugs), I feel I have to voice my opinion.
Cigarettes are incomparable to H addiction. Cigarette / nicotine withdrawal tends to make one neurotic / edgy / bitchy have tons of extra energy when one hasn't smoked for x number of minutes/ hours. This can be (relatively) easy to overcome with sufficient will power (I quit cigs cold turkey).
H addiction, isn't an issue with will-power. It's an issue with the inevitable fact that during withdrawal (unlike cigs) you WILL be vomiting / expelling liqui-shit at the same time AT LEAST twice daily (1-4 weeks depending on level of addiction). You will feel like you've been run-over by a transport truck, and that you are 80 years old with the worst arthritis in medical history (1-4 weeks depending on level of addiction), have cold sweats / fever (1-4 weeks depending on level of addiction), not be able to keep any food down (1-4 weeks depending on level of addiction). Oh, and migraine headaches are something I have never experienced before H withdrawal. They were so bad they literally brought tears to my eyes randomly, and made me collapse on the floor (lasted for about 2 weeks).
Comparing cigarette addiction to H addiction .. is literally similar to comparing the effect of drinking ginger-ale, to the effect of drinking chloroform.
Good read RD, loved that thread about trying heroin a while back as well. Sounds like you have pretty similar attitudes\experiences to me, never touched cigs though but caffeine definitely plays that role sufficiently.
cheers mate. yeah, out of everything i've done i'd say don't try cigarettes - waste of fucking time and money. with regards to H - if you want to try it just get a quarter gram or half gram and make sure you don't get any more when thats gone - that's where i went wrong, i bought another gram. its not a waste of time or money to just see what the fuss is about. and it IS very nice.
and to answer another question by the OP - i don't think you can get addicted to ANYTHING by trying it once, so all that some people say about getting hooked on heroin after 1 go is complete bollocks. you can appreciate how nice it is, but you're not clucking for it the next day at all. took me a few weeks of dabbling to get into it, and it was never a fiending type thing, if anything i didn't psychologically need to do it, but my way of thinking just started 'fuck it, i'm gonna have a bump tonight'. when i stopped my fucking body let me know about it though! damn, i wouldn't wish that on an enemy
-
I would bunk the strength of nicotine addiction that easily. Then again, if you drink chloroform you have worse issues to worry about :D
-
How do such avid drug users here at Silk Road elude addiction, a problem so much of the rest of the world is in the clutches of?
There are a shit ton of addicts here. It's probably just that people don't like to talk about it in this forum. It's not "cool".