Silk Road forums
Discussion => Newbie discussion => Topic started by: ripthesystem on July 18, 2013, 10:07 am
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Now, obviously onion based markets like SR have dramatically changed the way a lot of us view and interact with the drug scene and the drugs market in general, I think it's pretty safe to say they're now well established and here to stay, and we can look forwards to them having a positive effect, as I can't really see a negative side for the drug scene at all.
However, something I have noticed is (in the UK at least) quite an increase in the popularity of synthetics (and before anyone gets their panties twisted, I have nothing against synth. substances, I've used plenty of varieties). While many of these chems, in my opinion, have little negative effect on the majority of people who know what they're doing, there are some of the less 'clean' ones with junk added in to quickly circumnavigate the ever lagging drugs laws some countries flounder with as they feign attempts to prevent the manufacture, distribution and consumption of these chems. Most of the currently popular ones such as the synth cannabinoids have only been in circulation for some months, meaning there has been literally no published report of effects, even short term let alone long term from repeated use. Many suppliers that inexperienced users are buying from (some normal-web legal high stores etc) have very low quality manufacturer sources and offer no kind of reagent test or proper safety/dosage information. The dosages for many of these chems is exceptionally low, and yet young people in the UK are taking far too high doses and re-dosing consistently, often becoming what I would definitely perceive as addicted to them. It definitely seems different to the Phenethylimine boom caused by MDMA, as that seemed to promote more chemistry research and knowledge on the part of the consumer, or maybe that's just me.
So what I want to know is, how do you see this affecting the future of the drug scene? Are we eventually heading for a future where most drugs used recreationaly are in some kind of synth pill form? Or are the staples such as good old coke and dope going to be around forever?
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I can't speak to synth cannabinoids because (to my knowledge) I've never done any. Quit smoking pot a few years ago. But I can speak to synth hallucinogens.
In college during my first year there was a huge craze over the 2C drugs (2C-I, 2C-E, 2C-T2, etc.). Look 'em up on erowid if you're unfamiliar. They're cheap: I think for 2C-I I paid $15 for two REALLY strong doses. Much more than I could do at once, but then I'm a lightweight when it comes to hallucinogens.
They were especially popular because the school I went to had a pretty notable chemistry department so a few kids started making it themselves and feeling like they were doing some Breaking Bad shit.
But after a year or so, everyone just went back to 'cid and boomers because regardless of how cheap or "new" or hip the 2C's were, they just weren't the real deal the way a few stems and caps could get you tripping. And it was a bumpier ride (both physically and psychologically).
So I think people who do synths I would guess know that they want the real thing and (for those who can afford it) many will pay more to get the real deal.
I, lastly, don't understand how SR or the ability to get products over the deep web is related to an increase in synth transactions on the street. But I'm oxy-ed out and so maybe it's just me. ;)
tl;dr
I don't think synth's will take over or become the thing of the future. However, it comes to mind that when it was discovered, LSD was sort of a synth drug. It just isn't thought of that way now because it's been around for so long. I'm sure that phenomenon could happen again with any synthetic drug, regardless of if it's a knockoff of something more "natural" (I assume you mean synths comparable to dope, which is obviously just a plant and therefore naturally occurring).
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In college during my first year there was a huge craze over the 2C drugs (2C-I, 2C-E, 2C-T2, etc.).
Yeah, the Phenethylamine derivative are a separate issue really, I think. I don't see much possibility of addiction with the hallucinogens either, because just like you said, the ride is pretty bumpy and it's just nicer to get some shrooms or something.
I, lastly, don't understand how SR or the ability to get products over the deep web is related to an increase in synth transactions on the street.
Oh, sorry for the lack of clarification, I didn't mean SR was really related to this, if anything it's actually the normal-web legal high shops. Many synth suppliers on SR are actually very high quality and offer reagent tests etc.
But you really think it wont take over? I mean look at the pharmaceutical industry, that's all synth stuff and people love it.
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But you really think it wont take over? I mean look at the pharmaceutical industry, that's all synth stuff and people love it.
You're completely correct. Case and point: I'm on percocet right now. I love it. ;D
But I think there are people who like RX pharms and people who like coke and pot and people who like both (myself included, minus the pot).
I don't think it will "take over" so much as there are markets for any item for which there is a demand. IRL I know oxy and xan dealers who couldn't find the kief in a grinder if they had all day, and I know coke dealers that say "Oh, I don't do pills". They are a different class of products and because both are in demand and illegal, there will be a (black) market for all sorts of things. But I don't see the likelihood of one displacing the other as likely -- a LOT of people just like to smoke a bowl when they go camping and don't want to touch the 'hard stuff' and on the other hand, like you said, most pharms usually are quite addictive, so those people aren't going to change their habits either.
I just think they happen to often be considered as part of the same market because they're all illegal, and they're all drugs. So a "drug" dealer or vendor or whatever can be any part of that that they want, or not.
I do admit I think you have an interesting theory. Just as when I told my parents (who are both docs) about the 2Cs, they'd never heard of them, 60 years ago people didn't know shit about LSD. And today, what college student (that partied the right way, of course), hasn't done it at least once? So it makes me curious for what the drug scene will be like when I have grandkids. Which, god helping, will be a fuck-tonne of a long time from now.
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I also am not sure I understand why, whatever the outcome turns out to be, it would be any different in the UK vs the US. Humans are humans. Whatever is popular in one country will likely be popular in another.
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I also am not sure I understand why, whatever the outcome turns out to be, it would be any different in the UK vs the US.
That's really just my opinion to be honest. I mean it's based on the idea that U.S. have far larger growing/cooking industries wheras U.K. as a little Island is mostly imports, cheap synths from Asia and weed etc from, well, pretty much everywhere I suppose. Also the laws are very different regarding some of these chems over in Yankland making them much hotter products to shift.
You have a good point though in the post before that one, I think you might be right to an extent, especially about many users not being interested in trying 'harder' substances.
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I see SR as the way of the future, so different to when I had to go out and find stuff as a kid! Especially living away from any major cities etc. As far as i'm concerned it has only had a positive effect on the drug scene.
With regards to synthetic drugs, i think they are here to stay, i love mushrooms and acid and used to smoke copius amounts of weed daily, But there is certainly a place for synthetics and many have taken hold fast, think MDMA, Ketamine and now most recently M-cat, its literally more common to get around here then coke! With regards to the 2c's, 2cb is still a popular drug and can be bought in most big towns.
Thing I find the strangest is the prices on SR, Some things seem ridiculous when compared to the local 'street' , e.g. ketamine and m-cat which are both £15 a gram around here for good quality gear. To get those prices on here you would have to buy in a fair quantity and even then if I bought K off the street in a fair quantity I can get it far cheaper then here!?
The complete opposite is true of MDMA and to some extent weed from SR , which are very reasonably priced on here, in fact you could more then double your money selling it on the street around here with MDMA just from 1oz.
Must be variations in the local markets I suppose? I wonder whether Silk road will even it out given a few more years?
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I also am not sure I understand why, whatever the outcome turns out to be, it would be any different in the UK vs the US.
That's really just my opinion to be honest. I mean it's based on the idea that U.S. have far larger growing/cooking industries wheras U.K. as a little Island is mostly imports, cheap synths from Asia and weed etc from, well, pretty much everywhere I suppose. Also the laws are very different regarding some of these chems over in Yankland making them much hotter products to shift.
You have a good point though in the post before that one, I think you might be right to an extent, especially about many users not being interested in trying 'harder' substances.
Thanks ;)
And "Yankland"??!??!? :'(
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Thing I find the strangest is the prices on SR...
Yeah I'd definitely have to say that weed is cheaper for me from SR than it is locally, and usually better stuff too actually. The synths that are still legal are much cheaper on normal web though, and far lower quality from what I have seen, usually, and once a synth becomes illegal it gets a bit rarer/expensive on and offline I suppose. I reckon the higher price of SR chems where applicable is just basically because of higher quality and legit sourcing really in my opinion.
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And "Yankland"??!??!? :'(
Heh, no offense intended of course, I mean it in a sort of fond manner. (I have family over the pond.)
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Thing I find the strangest is the prices on SR, Some things seem ridiculous when compared to the local 'street' , e.g. ketamine and m-cat which are both £15 a gram around here for good quality gear. To get those prices on here you would have to buy in a fair quantity and even then if I bought K off the street in a fair quantity I can get it far cheaper then here!?
The complete opposite is true of MDMA and to some extent weed from SR , which are very reasonably priced on here, in fact you could more then double your money selling it on the street around here with MDMA just from 1oz.
Must be variations in the local markets I suppose? I wonder whether Silk road will even it out given a few more years?
I also find it quite strange. Looking at a vendor I'm seriously considering buying pure alprazolam powder from, I could get 1000mg of powder for under $225 US. I normally hear of 2mg bars going for ~$5 from my IRL dealer, so I'm thinking, if I just encapsulated them and mixed with something hydrophobic, I could make 4X my money back. Cheap. As. Shit.
Alternatively, I see some other shitbird selling me a gram of "super pure awesome primo incredible" coke for $120. Fuck that shit. I know what I buy from my local guy might be cut with something, but I can get an 8-ball for $160 most of the time. That's over 2.5X as expensive.
Similarly, boomers, 'cid, and (from what browsing I've done), weed are very affordable. Benzos and opiates are almost the exact same as my local prices. And MDMA is a solid deal. But the coke especially ... jeez. I don't know what I'm missing. Is it more risky to mail, and that's why the price difference? It's funny how much it varies in terms of the value of SR, even taking into account the ease of it just coming via postage rather than having to talk with some fuckwad who is trying to rip me off.
On that note, I wish drug dealers IRL had a rating system ... that'd make things interesting. :D
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And "Yankland"??!??!? :'(
Heh, no offense intended of course, I mean it in a sort of fond manner. (I have family over the pond.)
YOU HAVE ME OVER THE POND. SO OFFENDED.
Ah fuck it, I'm on oxy, life is good. I'm over it. :-*
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At UK festivals this summer the demand was for MDMA, coke, weed, pills, mushrooms, and hash.
And pretty much in that order.
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At UK festivals this summer the demand was for MDMA, coke, weed, pills, mushrooms, and hash.
And pretty much in that order.
That's actually pretty reassuring to me, then. :D
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Personally, I think the legal highs that are freely available on the clearnet are simply the easiest option to a lot of people, as getting on SR, acquiring bitcoins, using PGP encryption etc, are not exactly easy steps to follow if you have no prior knowledge of such things, much like myself. Then there is the pArAnOiA around the whole thing, largely fueled by state run/funded (delete as appropriate) media sources that beat the 'all drugs are bad & will kill you' drum, on what feels like a continuous loop. Taking the illegal element of getting high out of the equation by using synths/legal highs, is for a lot of people, the deal maker & allows people to satisfy their own minds that what they are doing is completely right & just. This is not to say it is or isn't, but the human mind can be fickle, and very much blinkered. There is still that ignorance around synths & legal highs in general, the old "It's legal, so it's ok & safe" adage springs to mind. I felt I had to jump through a whole pile of hoops to get to the point of actually ordering on SR, but for me, the experiences I've had so far have been worth it. This is speaking from experience, until recently I had been using all sorts of synths from legal high shops, but noticed as things got banned, cathinones, benzo fury, MXE, MDPV etc, the 'new' replacements just seemed to decrease in quality with every such ban, and I became disillusioned with the whole scene, which led me to SR, and a return to the drugs I used to take when I was a teenager, long before the term legal high was even coined....Currently ranked in my top 10 'best decisions I've ever made' list btw! In the end so long as there is supply & demand, no matter what the wares, the rest takes care of itself. I don't think that synths will eventually take over, simply because they are changing and evolving at such a rapid rate, and in my experience, the bar just gets set too low at some point & the fun is then over. I know a lot of the banned synths are available on SR, but in my opinion why bother when you can have your pick of what I refer to as, 'The original & Best' selection of narcotics that have stood the test of time, such as LSD, MDMA, & even ecstasy pills to a certain extent.
Peace.
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good information, thanks
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I missed the first wave of designer drugs (the Shulgin synths) and only became aware of the RC scene when mephedrone hit the UK scene. At the time due to circumstances my regular scores had dried up, so apart from a bit of hash or weed and some coke when available, I wasn't doing much stuff. Meph was the first RC that actually did what is said on the tin without too much of a come down and for a couple of years before the ban it was my drug of choice. After the ban, the replacement RSs became more and more sketchy and, apart from some of the benzofurans, the side-effects outweighed the high. Then along came SR and 'real drugs' were suddenly available again. So I think the scene will evolve in two ways, the old guys like me who have lost their contacts can order from the comfort of their own home, and price and quality, supported by peer review, will keep street dealers on their toes.
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everything is going so fast.
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The teens in the UK who had the knowledge to buy RCs online are going to find their way onto SR, and they'll get their mates on and so forth. Anything which makes people less dependent on lying street dealers is great.
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I agree with you to some extent Privilegespite, but I still think the 'lazy Teens' of today would always opt for the easier way of getting a hit, which lets face it, isn't SR! I believe, however, as SR grows in popularity, notoriety & user base, you could well be right about SR becoming the 'Dealer Of Choice', for teens or otherwise.
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While most people I know aged late teens to late thirties are now using SR for their pills, weed, powders etc, I still know of and see a very large number of young people who only buy synth from legal high stores online now.
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Same as that ripthesystem, this is pretty much bang on amongst my fellow users, of whatever substance.
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Anybody who is moderately informed or interested in drugs and harm reduction will probably stumble upon a reference to SR on the clearweb without intentionally looking for it, and those who are smart enough to research their drugs are also smart enough to care that they're getting the real product. It's only a matter of time until these people put 2 and 2 together, and end up buying on SR.
There will always be people who buy a random pill at a party and take it with no research. These are the people who think SR is too much effort, and the marketplace is probably healthier without them.
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The SR might help in harm reduction by switching some people away from sketchy RCs and back to tried and tested old skool drugs. Back in the days when RCs were sold online as 'plant food' the websites were pretty difficult to find and pretty amateurish in design. Most are now state of the art in design and easily found but the materials they sell are becoming less and less interesting as the government keeps up its campaign of harm increase by randomly banning stuff. On the other hand, SR will bring people into contact with drugs that they might not have encountered before and might be inclined to try out, I can see that causing problems for some people.
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On the other hand, SR will bring people into contact with drugs that they might not have encountered before and might be inclined to try out, I can see that causing problems for some people.
Yeah, with the variety and quality on SR I can imagine someone might be inclined to just try shitloads of a wide variety without having prior experience with less potent drugs to prepare for it.
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"yankland" is about to legalize cannabis and subsequently control the world economy. boom baby! :P
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"yankland" is about to legalize cannabis and subsequently control the world economy. boom baby! :P
Welcome to America broski 8)
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I don't know about the other RCs but here in my part of Yankland synthetic marijuana became huge for a while. Almost every gas station sold it. If the laws on it are more lax in the UK it is only because here recently there has been a massive backlash against "legal weed". In my neck of the woods there was a battle between lawmakers and chemists. The state government would ban one chemical and the chemists would just put out product with a different chemical. Finally the lawmakers got wise and passed a law making analogs of an illegal substance illegal. Maybe something like this will end up happening across the pond.
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If it wasn't for RC's I would have never discovered SR. I never really gave two thoughts about doing drugs but when I did, I decided they were something I should be doing a lot of all the time.
Started doing RCs a few years ago, mainly aMT and MXE, both of which I found mind blowing. My natural response to this was to look for other things that would be more intense and more interesting. I'd heard about SR from various news sources and shrugged it off as being a myth or something that would be closed down within months. However, about a year ago, after Theresa May banned MXE, an aquaintence of mine (who didn't know I was into drugs) mentioned that he had used it and it had worked. Two weeks later I had my hands on ten grams of MXE (bizarrely a third of the price I was paying for it on RC sites), some of JoRs LSD and a gram of DMT.
The good thing about RCs is that people who try them will see the potential of drugs and every time the government bans one that people like, people will gravitate towards things like SR making it bigger, stronger and something that the government will have to start taking very seriously. Either they're going to have to start arresting everyone who uses SR or think about decriminalization.
Unfortunately, cunts like Theresa May and EVERYONE in the Labour Party feel that the war on drugs must be won even if it means destroying the lives and careers of scientists who provide evidence showing more people die in horse riding accidents ever year than people who die from taking ecstasy i.e. David Nutt.
My hope for the future of the drug scene in the UK is that things like SR will start putting serious pressure on the government to consider the decriminalization of drugs. Then again, when you take one look at the drug war in Mexico and the 50,000 lives it has claimed so far your heart does sink a little.
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The future of drugs anywhere is dependent on the market. If there's demand for good ol' coke and dope then it will continue to be supplied. If people start to only demand synthetics then that's what the supply will be. Bottom line, it's out of our control and in the hands of the collective market. -IMO
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The future of drugs anywhere is dependent on the market. If there's demand for good ol' coke and dope then it will continue to be supplied. If people start to only demand synthetics then that's what the supply will be. Bottom line, it's out of our control and in the hands of the collective market. -IMO
^^ what this guy said in his cherry-popping post
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Coming from someone who is currently at University and around drugs a large amount of time I can say there is no definitive answer in relation to synth's taking over the lions share of the drugs market. The youth go through many phases of trying and experimenting with different drugs at one time, for example MDMA & Ketamine are drugs of choice at the moment among young university students, many people I speak to at parties and other such places are extemeley skeptical of any synthetic drugs like 25iNOMBE or Synth weed. They've heard and seen the damage these RC's can SOMETIMES do and therefore stay away, however saying that there are groups of people who regularly used synths & RC's, so it's hard to put a finger on a final answer whether the stone-age drugs will be pushed aside.
But a final word on the subject is that if there is a demand for a drug then there will be people to provide the substance, there's so much choice out there that people don''t usually stick with one substance.
PlanB 8)
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The future of drugs anywhere is dependent on the market. If there's demand for good ol' coke and dope then it will continue to be supplied. If people start to only demand synthetics then that's what the supply will be. Bottom line, it's out of our control and in the hands of the collective market. -IMO
^^ what this guy said in his cherry-popping post
I spent two years looking for LSD, MDMA and MXE on the streets and never found any. The closest I got was cheap, shitty weed.
There is a demand for coke and dope, but there's no supply, at least not round my way. Not every drug user knows about SR and some drug users I know find SR 'too risky'. In an ideal world your theory would be spot on, but alas, the market is only as free as the government allows it to be. It's only the lucky people such as ourselves who get to pick and chose what we spend our hard earned BTC on.
SR does exist though, and more people need to know about it. This thing need to turn into a problem for anti-drug idiots everywhere. Maybe DPR could try advertising in High Times or something.