Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: qrbr6 on August 06, 2013, 01:26 pm
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I know that you should take a week in between trips for psychedelics (all psychedelics because of the cross tolerance), but what if you do it weekly? 3 weeks ago I had LSD, 2 weeks ago I had shrooms and last week I had 25i. I'm in the mood for some shrooms this weekend, will I build up a tolerance that requires longer rest periods at this rate?
On a side note is there an LD50 for shrooms? I have taken 3.5g before and I know that 7g is safe, but according to the LD50 for mice it would be 0.2g/kg so 16g for myself. What is a sensible upper bound for shrooms? I know people who have taken 10g but I consider 7g a safe number to stop at.
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The only way to actually tell is by trying, Since it changes between person to person their is no actual way of knowing how you build your tolerance it completely depends on your metabolism and such.
In this case i think the effects will be weaken by a bit (means you should just take a larger dose), But yea .
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I know that you should take a week in between trips for psychedelics (all psychedelics because of the cross tolerance), but what if you do it weekly? 3 weeks ago I had LSD, 2 weeks ago I had shrooms and last week I had 25i. I'm in the mood for some shrooms this weekend, will I build up a tolerance that requires longer rest periods at this rate?
On a side note is there an LD50 for shrooms? I have taken 3.5g before and I know that 7g is safe, but according to the LD50 for mice it would be 0.2g/kg so 16g for myself. What is a sensible upper bound for shrooms? I know people who have taken 10g but I consider 7g a safe number to stop at.
I think your biggest problem is the 25i, that creates cross tolerance for everything.
Two weeks LSD to shooms is more than enough, with good sleep a few days is enough. But 25i tolerance build up is pretty strong. A week should be OK, but maybe not so strong, depends on you really.
Good deep sleep, a good fresh well balanced diet - think fresh vegetables, lean meat, and white fish, non fat dairy, fruit and nuts - and exercise are vital if you want to maximize trips and minimize tolerance build up.
Erowid has the LD50s for most drugs.
[http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_chemistry.shtml]
But again the actual dose that will kill you depends on many factors. Your 17g is just the statistically significant result of the test. It bears little relationship to your situation. You could lie anywhere on the distribution. Thus much better to be safe rather than sorry.
With shooms you can eat a few at a time, wait 5 minutes and eat again. When you think you have had enough, eat one more dose and stop. Or make a tea and sip it over 20 mins or so and stop when you have had enough. That way you can build up to a good dose, and notice when you are reaching your limit.
Seven grams is considered a heavy tip by Erowid :o
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_dose.shtml
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Thanks for the advice guys. Does anyone have any experience with high doses themselves?
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Lost a keyboard player in my band to too many high doses shrooms, he just lost it, ended up in hospital and then a year rehabilitation back at his parent's.
I was a bit of a fiend for shrooms and other psychedelics when I was younger, it probably sounds like 'I told you so' but I would slow down on weekly dosing. There is a subtle loss of perspective that I can't quite explain. So enjoy, but take a break now and then.
Take care.
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Is this the first time you have taken mushrooms? Why go for such high doses? What do you want to get out of the experience? If it is to have fun, then a high dose may do more harm than good.
You are risking a bad experience if your preparation isn't good. Have a read of
http://howtousepsychedelics.org/mushrooms/ [clearnet]
I am not hear to tell you not to do drugs. But I do want to suggest that you think about good harm reduction practices. The main harm from psychedelics comes from incorrect dosing and poor preparation leading to overpowering experiences taken in an unsafe environment.
FH
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Two weeks LSD to shooms is more than enough, with good sleep a few days is enough. But 25i tolerance build up is pretty strong. A week should be OK, but maybe not so strong, depends on you really.
A few days' break between most psychedelics should be fine unless you're concerned about getting the maximum potential from your dose.
There obviously haven't been any true studies on 25i tolerance, but based on a couple of my friends' "chronic" use of it from a couple months ago, the tolerance is not so terrible, or at least not as much as people often claim it to be. But it does exist, and it seems to last a little longer than that of the classical psychedelics. I would gather that it's because 25i is the current strongest full agonist of the psychedelically-important 5-HT2A receptor, stronger than LSD and psilocybin.
Trying to "stretch your limits" on psychedelics is stupid if you're not preparing yourself adequately for the trips that result.
To ring what Thekla1 said, at least one of my friends has noticed feeling a little "off" after a few weeks of chronic psychedelic use. Your poor serotonin receptors need to take some breaks every once in a while.
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Is this the first time you have taken mushrooms? Why go for such high doses? What do you want to get out of the experience? If it is to have fun, then a high dose may do more harm than good.
You are risking a bad experience if your preparation isn't good. Have a read of
http://howtousepsychedelics.org/mushrooms/ [clearnet]
I am not hear to tell you not to do drugs. But I do want to suggest that you think about good harm reduction practices. The main harm from psychedelics comes from incorrect dosing and poor preparation leading to overpowering experiences taken in an unsafe environment.
FH
No, I've had one 3.5g dose before this. And I've had over 100 tabs of LSD in the last few years so I'm fairly experienced when it comes to psychedelics. I do most of my tripping at home these days.
Thanks to everyone for the advice.
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Is this the first time you have taken mushrooms? Why go for such high doses? What do you want to get out of the experience? If it is to have fun, then a high dose may do more harm than good.
You are risking a bad experience if your preparation isn't good. Have a read of
http://howtousepsychedelics.org/mushrooms/ [clearnet]
I am not hear to tell you not to do drugs. But I do want to suggest that you think about good harm reduction practices. The main harm from psychedelics comes from incorrect dosing and poor preparation leading to overpowering experiences taken in an unsafe environment.
FH
No, I've had one 3.5g dose before this. And I've had over 100 tabs of LSD in the last few years so I'm fairly experienced when it comes to psychedelics. I do most of my tripping at home these days.
Thanks to everyone for the advice.
Great, didn't want to assume or offend, just try to give sound advice.
Cheers
FH
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Lost a keyboard player in my band to too many high doses shrooms, he just lost it, ended up in hospital and then a year rehabilitation back at his parent's.
I was a bit of a fiend for shrooms and other psychedelics when I was younger, it probably sounds like 'I told you so' but I would slow down on weekly dosing. There is a subtle loss of perspective that I can't quite explain. So enjoy, but take a break now and then.
Take care.
1- please dont blame the drug.. he probably had a problem before hand.
2- high doses aren't nearly as mentally scarring for me as low doses can be....
(with proper high doses, "I" am no longer the one in the experience. the collective unconscious takes over and shows my connection to all life)
I do agree with the whole frequency thing 100% though. there is something to learn from every experience and if you keep just taking them to get high you are never going to take any of these lessons back with you to sober life.
you need to think about an experience like that for a while....
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Lost a keyboard player in my band to too many high doses shrooms, he just lost it, ended up in hospital and then a year rehabilitation back at his parent's.
I was a bit of a fiend for shrooms and other psychedelics when I was younger, it probably sounds like 'I told you so' but I would slow down on weekly dosing. There is a subtle loss of perspective that I can't quite explain. So enjoy, but take a break now and then.
Take care.
1- please dont blame the drug.. he probably had a problem before hand.
2- high doses aren't nearly as mentally scarring for me as low doses can be....
(with proper high doses, "I" am no longer the one in the experience. the collective unconscious takes over and shows my connection to all life)
I do agree with the whole frequency thing 100% though. there is something to learn from every experience and if you keep just taking them to get high you are never going to take any of these lessons back with you to sober life.
you need to think about an experience like that for a while....
Yes anecdotes aren't good enough, it is unknown if the drug or some problem that would have manifested anyway is the cause of stories like this. In general the harm from high doses is because you don't get the set or setting correct.
Also many people do recommend taking a decent dose of shooms to move you quickly into an open and accepting state. Otherwise you can stay too anxious.
Spot on with frequency and integration advice.
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I'm not using these to get high, I use them to expand my mind, I am a somewhat experienced psychonaut, though only with LSD at this point. I'm looking to broaden my horizons.
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I'm not using these to get high, I use them to expand my mind, I am a somewhat experienced psychonaut, though only with LSD at this point. I'm looking to broaden my horizons.
I just finished reading this
http://www.amazon.com/The-Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeutic/dp/1594774021 [Clearnet]
Really helpful for understanding how to get the most out of psychedelic drugs. It mostly talks about LSD, and mushrooms. But the guidance applied for all trips.
FH
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What is a sensible upper bound for shrooms?
5g is the point where things become difficult.
Pushing into that 4th level.
Side effects increase and you start pushing the "upper" levels of your trip.
Many times pushing into this territory can be mentally and physically exhausting.
Strong nausea and vomiting can occur.
Disorientation, and weakness.
At one point you will almost become paralyzed and your entire vision will meld into CEV's which you control entirely.
Really it's hard to say exactly how much side effects you will see as this is based highly on the individual.
Remember set and setting, and tolerance will play huge factors in this.
At a bare minimum I'd give yourself at least 2 weeks after your last NBOMe trip before tripping again.
3-4 weeks seems to be the best option.
Anyways, good luck with your journey.
Definitely check out this shroom dosage calculator and the 5 levels.
<clearnet warning - http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-Calculator>
<clearnet warning - http://www.shroomery.org/9067/What-do-the-different-trip-levels-Lvl-1-5-mean
Best Regards,
Vanquish
Level 1
This level produces a mild "stoning" effect, with some visual enhancement (i.e. brighter colours, etc). Some short term memory anomalies. Left/right brain communication changes causing music to sound "wider".
Level 2
Bright colors, and visuals (i.e. things start to move and breathe), some 2 dimensional patterns become apparent upon shutting eyes. Confused or reminiscent thoughts. Change of short term memory leads to continual distractive thought patterns. Vast increase in creativity becomes apparent as the natural brain filter is bypassed.
Level 3
Very obvious visuals, everything looking curved and/or warped patterns and kaleidoscopes seen on walls, faces etc. Some mild hallucinations such as rivers flowing in wood grained or "mother of pearl" surfaces. Closed eye hallucinations become 3 dimensional. There is some confusion of the senses (i.e. seeing sounds as colors, etcetera). Time distortions and "moments of eternity".
Level 4
Strong hallucinations, i.e. objects morphing into other objects. Destruction or multiple splitting of the ego. (Things start talking toyou, or you find that you are feeling contradictory things simultaneously). Some loss of reality. Time becomes meaningless. Out of body experiences and e.s.p. type phenomena. Blending of the senses.
Level 5
Total loss of visual connection with reality. The senses cease to function in the normal way. Total loss of ego. Merging with space, other objects, or the universe. The loss of reality becomes so severe that it defies explanation. The earlier levels are relatively easy to explain in terms of measureable changes in perception and thought patterns. This level is different in that the actual universe within which things are normally perceived, ceases to exist! Satorienlightenment (and other such labels).
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Thanks for the advice guys, I had 7 grams and had quite a trip, but after 4 weeks in a row of psychedelics every Saturday I think it's time for a break for at least 2 weeks, I think I'm building up tolerance and have answered my own question.