Silk Road forums
Discussion => Shipping => Topic started by: sofish89 on September 19, 2013, 07:42 am
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i was thinking of doing both until i saw that a MBB sealer is over a thouusand dollars? i think i may be looking at commercial ones but i cant seem to find any smaller ones online, or maybe im looking in the wrong places.
is just vac seal good enough for opiate pills?
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You can seal MBB's with a regular Impulse Sealer...
600 posts? In all that time haven't you read the shipping sticky?... or used PGP?
I'm sure you could even use an iron or hair straightener to seal 'em... yet I'd worry about over/under sealing them this way.
I'd use MBB's no matter what I'm shipping... it's just good practice. Rather be safe, than sorry.
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Or buy a $10 hair straighter at walmart. Was great until I bought the impulse. Only difference is the impulse seals in about 1 second, hair straighter you have to hold for 4-10. Buy the cheapest one that has one temperature only (on/off). It's nearly impossible to "over seal" or burn the MBB with one of those.
Vacuum is good for condensing down and saving space ONLY! does jack all for smell. If you value your customers safety, use MBB on chemicals that matter, coke, weed, MDMA. Don't use it for shrooms or LSD.
OP, you don't need mbb for pills. Vacuum sealer would be best to stop the pills from rattling.
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600 posts? In all that time haven't you read the shipping sticky?... or used PGP?
hey i did read the shipping sticky a couple of times! he only talks about the bags, he never mentions where to get a sealer or how to seal them. And yea i havent been using PGP since i came to the road, but hey just because ive been doing it wrong the past 2 months doesnt mean i cant do it right from now on
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600 posts? In all that time haven't you read the shipping sticky?... or used PGP?
hey i did read the shipping sticky a couple of times! he only talks about the bags, he never mentions where to get a sealer or how to seal them. And yea i havent been using PGP since i came to the road, but hey just because ive been doing it wrong the past 2 months doesnt mean i cant do it right from now on
Oh, I wasn't trying to bitch at you really. It just kinda fascinated me.
No offense meant. I agree with you. I mean I did give you a legit answer, right?
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haha no offense taken :)
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You can use a hair straightener, impulse sealer or a flat iron on a flat surface to seal moisture barrier bags.
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Hijacking this thread for a minute.
I'm thinking to buy some bags similar to these,
I've not sued foil before sop wondering do you just close the zip lock and then seal the upper part with the heat sealer.
Would anyone who uses these bags buy these
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-x4-3-5mil-Silver-Ziplock-Bags-1-3grams-Colors-Assorted/1154478782.html
Approx weight 1-3grams
Size: 3''x4''
Inner bag size: 2.6''x2.8''
Thickness: 3.5mil/91microns
Type: 3 Side seal pouch with zipper
Packing: 100pcs per poly bag,poly bag per carton
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Those are not moisture barrier bags ananas_xpress. They are just poly. They do not even have any mylar layers. :(
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Those are not moisture barrier bags ananas_xpress. They are just poly. They do not even have any mylar layers. :(
Thanks jack.
Yea I see the brand name M3 ones on here,
Was just hoping to find a cheap Asian supplier.
Pity on these Chinese sites how everything is tagged mylar so searching is no use unless you know exactly what you want and there is no EU supplier on here
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Those are not moisture barrier bags ananas_xpress. They are just poly. They do not even have any mylar layers. :(
Thanks jack.
Yea I see the brand name M3 ones on here,
Was just hoping to find a cheap Asian supplier.
Pity on these Chinese sites how everything is tagged mylar so searching is no use unless you know exactly what you want and there is no EU supplier on here
3M Dri-Shield 3000 or the higher grade 3M Dri-Shield 5000 is what you're looking for. They do have lower grade ones like 2700 and 2000 series but you really don't want to skimp on security. :)
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3M Dri-Shield 3000 or the higher grade 3M Dri-Shield 5000 is what you're looking for. They do have lower grade ones like 2700 and 2000 series but you really don't want to skimp on security. :)
3M 3000 series + might be best for international/customs. I believe the 3M Dri-Shield 2000 series is quite good for domestic. The 3M 1000 series are anti-static rather than MBB and can be seen through. If you look for a cheaper version of the 3M brand bags, it probably would be best to look for something comparable to the 3M 3000 series or better. I'd guess the "military spec" stuff people discuss in the shipping sticky is good stuff also.
I am pretty sure I have mentioned impulse sealers you can buy in the Shipping Sticky about avoiding exclusive use of food grade bags. Shipping supply companies have pretty good ones in the $200 - $350 range. They also sell MBBs. Hair straighteners work fine on MBBs. I have a hot one that I adjust all the way down as it is a bit too hot for the 3M 2000 series. I just use it to be sure of regular seals when there is any kind of wrinkle or concern about a perfect seal. If I used it more often, I might get good at it and like how fast the heat makes it. Definitely better to have it be too hot than too cool though :-)
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3M Dri-Shield 3000 or the higher grade 3M Dri-Shield 5000 is what you're looking for. They do have lower grade ones like 2700 and 2000 series but you really don't want to skimp on security. :)
3M 3000 series + might be best for international/customs. I believe the 3M Dri-Shield 2000 series is quite good for domestic. The 3M 1000 series are anti-static rather than MBB and can be seen through. If you look for a cheaper version of the 3M brand bags, it probably would be best to look for something comparable to the 3M 3000 series or better. I'd guess the "military spec" stuff people discuss in the shipping sticky is good stuff also.
I am pretty sure I have mentioned impulse sealers you can buy in the Shipping Sticky about avoiding exclusive use of food grade bags. Shipping supply companies have pretty good ones in the $200 - $350 range. They also sell MBBs. Hair straighteners work fine on MBBs. I have a hot one that I adjust all the way down as it is a bit too hot for the 3M 2000 series. I just use it to be sure of regular seals when there is any kind of wrinkle or concern about a perfect seal. If I used it more often, I might get good at it and like how fast the heat makes it. Definitely better to have it be too hot than too cool though :-)
There is really no reason to get the 2000 or 2700 series though. Just to save a few bucks? It would be better to have a dog not detect the narcotics even if the package is delayed. :) Even moisture barrier bags will leak the odor on a molecular level after so many days.
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3M Dri-Shield 3000 or the higher grade 3M Dri-Shield 5000 is what you're looking for. They do have lower grade ones like 2700 and 2000 series but you really don't want to skimp on security. :)
3M 3000 series + might be best for international/customs. I believe the 3M Dri-Shield 2000 series is quite good for domestic. ....
There is really no reason to get the 2000 or 2700 series though. Just to save a few bucks? It would be better to have a dog not detect the narcotics even if the package is delayed. :) Even moisture barrier bags will leak the odor on a molecular level after so many days.
I suppose the 3000 series leak a few molecules eventually as well. I can't really disagree with Jack's point, though: 'better safe than sorry'. I will use up my 2000 series bags while thinking about the possible upgrade. I have some excuse "straws" to grasp at still. I wonder if those Austrailian scanners can see series 3000 easier than series 2000? Will they fit in my small boxes since they are soooo stiff.... I think lame excuses are all I have so far ;-)
I did want to add, my S. 2000 are the third layer in a multi-layer system. I would not want to trust them alone for smelly stuff on long hot mailing journeys. Priority mail's speed also helps, in theory.
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3M Dri-Shield 3000 or the higher grade 3M Dri-Shield 5000 is what you're looking for. They do have lower grade ones like 2700 and 2000 series but you really don't want to skimp on security. :)
hi hi
funny you should mention that jack. i was looking around the net yesterday to try and buy some of the 3000s, and everywhere i went, the bags are on recall from 3M.
apparently the MVTR was "not as advertised" ....... meaning, i think, too much moisture and vapor were permeating the bag... much more than the specs allow for.... or in other words, the bags do diddly squat beyond a visual barrier, and needed a recall....
that's all the info i came across (the recall note is pretty thin on the details), and was hoping one of you lovely knowledgeable people can enlighten me on the situation.
any time an item gets put on recall that's a pretty serious thing... generally speaking the manufacturer will try to bury the issue and hope it goes away, until it gets too bad and they need to eat all the defects and replace...
xoxo
-mb
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Sorry MissBliss but I don't know anything about the recall.
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3M Dri-Shield 3000 or the higher grade 3M Dri-Shield 5000 is what you're looking for. They do have lower grade ones like 2700 and 2000 series but you really don't want to skimp on security. :)
hi hi
funny you should mention that jack. i was looking around the net yesterday to try and buy some of the 3000s, and everywhere i went, the bags are on recall from 3M.
apparently the MVTR was "not as advertised" ....... meaning, i think, too much moisture and vapor were permeating the bag... much more than the specs allow for.... or in other words, the bags do diddly squat beyond a visual barrier, and needed a recall....
that's all the info i came across (the recall note is pretty thin on the details), and was hoping one of you lovely knowledgeable people can enlighten me on the situation.
any time an item gets put on recall that's a pretty serious thing... generally speaking the manufacturer will try to bury the issue and hope it goes away, until it gets too bad and they need to eat all the defects and replace...
xoxo
-mb
I don't know if that's completely accurate...
http://www.protectivepackaging.net/dri-shield-moisture-barrier-bags
Shipping Hold on 3M* Dri-Shield* Static Shielding Moisture Barrier Bags
3M issued a notice on August 1, 2013 stating that they were halting shipments of 3M* Moisture Barrier Bag SCC Dri-Shield* 2000 & and 3M* Moisture Barrier Bag Dri-Shield* SCC 2700 because testing had shown that the bags did not meet 3M's specifications for moisture vapor transmission rate ("MVTR"). We have also had inquiries from customers on 3M* Dri-Shield* 3000 and Dri-Shield* 3700. There seems to be some issue locating these products as well.
The notice from 3M (pdf):
http://www.ttieurope.com/object/io_1375979121439
Sorry, that pdf won't allow me to copy the text... but it only talks about the 2000 & 2700
Yet a blog says they just recently updated that to include all the others as well:
http://blog.qsource.com/2013/08/shipping-hold-on-3m-dri-shield-2000.html
But at another place that keeps track of 3M product alert notifications, along with many other companies... it does not show a new warning including the 3000 (http://www.ttieurope.com/page/newsletter-pan-archive)
On 3M's authorized distributor website, you're able to still purchase all MBB's. And I did find them purchasable & in stock elsewhere. So Idk what the real story is.
The MVTR 2000 2700
Advertised: 0.02 0.005
Faulty: 0.046 0.018
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hi hi
yea it's quite confusing. each site gives a slightly different tone on this. when i looked at qsource, every single dri shield variant was on shipping hold... likewise, i found some other sites that only had the 2000 and 2700 de-listed.. but it begs the questions: is it the whole product line or just the 2xxx? if it's a manufacture error on the entire product line... for how long was this going on?
it seems to be a new development in the past month, so i wonder how many existing bags that have been used all over the world were "faulty" are the ones that are available in stock elsewhere part of the faulty batches?
xoxo
-mb
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.....apparently the MVTR was "not as advertised" ....... meaning, i think, too much moisture and vapor were permeating the bag... much more than the specs allow for.... or in other words, the bags do diddly squat beyond a visual barrier, and needed a recall....
On 3M's authorized distributor website, you're able to still purchase all MBB's. And I did find them purchasable & in stock elsewhere. So Idk what the real story is.
The MVTR 2000 2700
Advertised: 0.02 0.005
Faulty: 0.046 0.018
Facts on how permeable the bad bags are would be good to know. I'd guess they were just off-spec and a little more permeable than they are supposed to be. I don't really know. Who knows, maybe they had pinholes or something really bad. If they are just a little off-spec, they may still be fine for our purposes. I like to think we are shooting for way less permeable than safety requires and way less permeable than Food Vac bags. Here is a post I dug up with some numbers:
Oh yeah, to reiterate, here's what I've found out in terms of vapour permeability. Generally oxygen = vapour from what I've read, manufacturers don't make a distinction, and I'm not a chemist so can't elaborate.
Material / Gauge / MVTR (g/100in2/24hrs)
Clear barrier / 5.0 / 0.1 - 0.05
Aluminized PE / 3.6 / 0.4 - 0.02
Aluminized PE / 7.0 / 0.009 - 0.005
Nylon-Foil / 6.0 / < 0.0003
Tyvek-Foil / 10.0 / < 0.0003
The OP of the sniffer dog thread got these results with 'clear barrier' -
MDMA:
Dog went wild on this, I think it was his favourite:
1 layer: within 15 min
2 layers: within 1 hour
3 layers: after 24 hours.....
I don't know if these numbers are accurate or ... But, thought I'd toss 'em out.
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.....apparently the MVTR was "not as advertised" ....... meaning, i think, too much moisture and vapor were permeating the bag... much more than the specs allow for.... or in other words, the bags do diddly squat beyond a visual barrier, and needed a recall....
On 3M's authorized distributor website, you're able to still purchase all MBB's. And I did find them purchasable & in stock elsewhere. So Idk what the real story is.
The MVTR 2000 2700
Advertised: 0.02 0.005
Faulty: 0.046 0.018
Facts on how permeable the bad bags are would be good to know. I'd guess they were just off-spec and a little more permeable than they are supposed to be. I don't really know. Who knows, maybe they had pinholes or something really bad. If they are just a little off-spec, they may still be fine for our purposes. I like to think we are shooting for way less permeable than safety requires and way less permeable than Food Vac bags. Here is a post I dug up with some numbers:
Oh yeah, to reiterate, here's what I've found out in terms of vapour permeability. Generally oxygen = vapour from what I've read, manufacturers don't make a distinction, and I'm not a chemist so can't elaborate.
Material / Gauge / MVTR (g/100in2/24hrs)
Clear barrier / 5.0 / 0.1 - 0.05
Aluminized PE / 3.6 / 0.4 - 0.02
Aluminized PE / 7.0 / 0.009 - 0.005
Nylon-Foil / 6.0 / < 0.0003
Tyvek-Foil / 10.0 / < 0.0003
The OP of the sniffer dog thread got these results with 'clear barrier' -
MDMA:
Dog went wild on this, I think it was his favourite:
1 layer: within 15 min
2 layers: within 1 hour
3 layers: after 24 hours.....
I don't know if these numbers are accurate or ... But, thought I'd toss 'em out.
That's what I listed here:
The MVTR 2000 2700
Advertised: 0.02 0.005
Faulty: 0.046 0.018
I tried to kinda make a ghetto spreadsheet... one column for Dri-Shield 2000, and one column for Dri-Shield 2700.
My row/category "advertised"... are the MVTR values the bags are supposed to have.
My other row/category "faulty"... are the MVTR values for the recalled bags.
Sorry I didn't explain it before... thought I was kinda babbling too much the way it was.
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hi hi
@nw nugz i had read through that sniffer dog test-at-home thread few months ago, which is why i wanted to know if anyone has insider info on what's up with the recent MBBs... if those fault numbers are indeed correct, then recent batches of MBB likely don't do much more than old school vac seal.. and considering it's a manufacturer recall, it would affect EVERY dri shield bag.... yikes!!
xoxo
-mb
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... if those fault numbers are indeed correct, then recent batches of MBB likely don't do much more than old school vac seal.. and considering it's a manufacturer recall, it would affect EVERY dri shield bag.... yikes!!
Hi :-)
If I read the numbers correctly the recalled bags are probably still more than 10 times better than the food vac bags. Maybe 100 times better? I'm sure the MBBs (when twice as permeable as advertized) are still much better than food bags.
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hi hi
@nw nugz i had read through that sniffer dog test-at-home thread few months ago, which is why i wanted to know if anyone has insider info on what's up with the recent MBBs... if those fault numbers are indeed correct, then recent batches of MBB likely don't do much more than old school vac seal.. and considering it's a manufacturer recall, it would affect EVERY dri shield bag.... yikes!!
xoxo
-mb
Here... check out the detailed product spec pdf's
Dri-Shield 2000 has 5 layers at 3.6 mils total thickness: POLYETHYLENE - ALUMINUM - POLYESTER - ALUMINUM - STATIC DISSIPATIVE POLYESTER
Dri-Shield 3000 has 3 layers at 6 mils total thickness: POLYETHYLENE - FOIL (aluminum) - NYLON
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTtmXf6LXMtEVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--
http://www.globaltestsupply.com/datasheets/3M%20Dri-Shield%203000.pdf
These would be different separate production lines. I'm not sure the exact process they use... Whatever, doesn't matter.
Dri-Shield 2700 construction wise is almost identical to 2000, yet it looks like it has much thicker end layers... I'm betting the inside 3 layers are exactly the same for both. So I'll guess that the problem has to do with their two really thin aluminum layers... much easier to screw that up than the polyester.
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EVsSyXTtmXf6LXMaEVtQEVs6EVs6EVs6E666666--
I cant find specs of vac bags (cant spend all night), but I don't see vac bags being even as good as the flawed mbb's.