Is Circle really banning members who send to intermediate wallets before sending to markets? +Other Cryptocurrency Q's.

I started using circle well over a year ago, though I haven't used it in the past month and a half. I never tumbled (I was in the camp that assumed for small time buyers like me, tumbling was overkill and unnecessary). But I always made sure to send my coin from circle to an intermediate wallet made on Tails before sending to a market, and I always used a different address for the receiving intermediary wallet. I never had any problems. Circle even greatly increased the cap on how many coins I could get in a week, a few months back.

But I've read a couple threads on here recently about circle banning users who send to intermediary wallets before sending to a market. I am skeptical of this. First of all, would circle really put in the resources for tracking coin that way?

Secondly, there is no way for circle to prove the first transaction (circle->intermediary) isn't a totally legit transaction between two people, and the second one decided to use the coin to get drugs. (Right?) In such a scenario, they're punishing the first person for something they had nothing to do with. This seems like a really shitty and unsustainable business model.

So... is this really a thing now? Might these posts--warning of bans even when intermediate wallets are used--be shills for tumbling services? Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?

I'm also going to ask a question brought up in other threads that was never really addressed, at least not that I could see: How does circle (and the other BTC sources that ban for such behavior) know if coin is being sent to a DNM at all, so long as different addresses are used for each transaction?

Finally, I imagine that direct deals are almost guaranteed not to be cause for circle to ban a user. Then again, I don't understand how they can know an address is that of a DNM, so might they also have a way of knowing the addresses of well-established DD vendors? This seems far-fetched to me, but so does getting banned even while using an intermediate wallet.

So far I've loved circle, and getting banned would really suck, because other options are either no good for me or much more involved and considerably less convenient.

If anyone can shed some light on these questions and hopefully help prevent me and other users like me from losing our source of coin, it would be appreciated. Thanks.

tl;dr: See title.

EDIT: I admit, I somehow missed this thread several days ago and it does answer some of my questions, such as how a service like circle can know you're sending directly to a DNM: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/47o39c/how_can_a_market_address_be_identified_as_a_dnm/


Comments


[4 Points] Chardlz:

I haven't heard anything about this personally but I'd just say use Helix Light as a solution... You send all of your coins to one address and they become irrelevant. That's the end of the transaction right there. Plus it's a new address every single time


[4 Points] Anti-Hero_AU:

First of all, would circle really put in the resources for tracking coin that way?

Of course they would. KYC/AML compliance is key to this exchange not being shut down by the feds long-term.

Sending the way you do gives you 100% taint, so it's just a matter of time before you're flagged (if you aren't already) and your account is closed permanently without recourse.

/u/IHeartTheDN


[1 Points] None:

Tumbling services do have shills. Never doubt that...

Send coins to a market repeatedly with different deposit addresses. You can figure out where it goes that's how they identify the market wallets.


[1 Points] LonghornWelch:

Yup it looks like Circle just banned me, and all I do is transfer my coins to a private wallet. I think Coinbase might have too.


[0 Points] JburnaDNM:

You made a very good point about the what if I transfered the coins to someone else and then they sent to the dnm. I think if you put in a support ticket then how do they prove thats what really happened or not. I just bought coins tonight using circle for the first time. The 300 cap sucked and I have to wait a day they say. I went to coinbase to purchase the rest and they have now capped me at $100 a day when before it was $5,000 a week. I wonder wtf is going on with all these bullshit rules popping up.


[0 Points] Wanted_drugs_2day:

It's likely not just how many wallets but how long after you buy coin that it ends up in a known market hot wallet or cold wallet.

Even if you get a brand new address for your deposit this becomes irrelevant if they are just dumping that address into a large known wallet.

Agora did this correctly and segregated their wallets, they many pretty many to manage really on top of everything else.

So if you buy 1btc at 5pm and they can see that 1btc in a market wallet by 6pm, yea they're gonna flag you probably. It's unlikely that you bought it and immediately resold it that fast or if you did you were buying it for someone else for drugs.

I don't know if all the market wallets are known or not. Check on walletexplorer.

But they likely have some sort of software looking at the known wallets and alerting when certain parameters are met when one of their purchasing wallets shows up in the chain.


[0 Points] givemeoil420:

circle has been involved in and actively reports "suspicious activity" to the police and has had people arrested and jailed for "money laundering"


[0 Points] Axaq:

Hi,

I don't have much time to address most of your points, so I'll just keep it short and possibly drop another reply later.

You make some really good points and I have had the exact same thoughts in the past. The posts that have claimed to have been banned after using a wallet between moving their coins always seem to be fresh user accounts so that is instantly suspicious and very plausible that tumbler admins would do that of course, since they will take their fee from their transaction if it goes through them.

As for whether Bitcoin exchanges would use these resources and ban with no solid proof? Absolutely imo. They want to follow the laws and keep their asses covered because there is such a grey area regarding laws over Crypto currencies and also the bad press around them means there is a lot of pressure on companies such as this. If they ban people who genuinely did make a transaction to someone who, at that point, moved the coins to the wallet, they are making sure they have done everything in their power to prevent it happening again as they are required to investigate it and often report it.

Tracking coins being deposited to Blackmarkets is an easy task for anyone really, the way market transactions work is that there is a "hot wallet", which is a central bank as such which holds all the user's coins at once, everyone's on that market. Each user is assigned a (usually fresh) wallet address which has been generated and it simply acts as a forwarding address which passes any coins sent to it, on to the hot wallet. When the coins move, the user's account is credited in the database with the Bitcoin value that it received. So, you can see how this works the same as an intermediate wallet address in between.


[0 Points] crystaldust:

I use circle and send Bitcoin to my same wallet computer all the time, stopping people from doing this would undermine there entire business plan of being able to send and exchange coin. If you can't send coin to an another address then the app is pointless see what I'm saying here ? I have asked for an increase in limit and not gotten it now there is no option for me to ask again.

I'm pretty sure alphabay has updated there wallets so now they are undetectable by profiling the block chain. They made a post about it two days ago p, not sure if it's automatic or something you need to turn on ? I too am worried that I could get banned. For now everything works fine,

I think also there is a fine line circle is walking where most of its users are utilizing the service to purchase from the markets so they don't want to alienate there customer base ? If they where profiling this way then why have innit been banned ? I'm a new user ? I send to my hive wallet then to the market. Usually spread out to as where the market address is different each time I do it.


[0 Points] attilathehunn:

The best tumbler is Joinmarket https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/45vuch/psa_you_can_now_be_your_own_tumbler_at_01/


[0 Points] Indesit20:

Another eeasy way to tumble is using Outlaws market mixer i think

Also you can use https://xmr.to/ to get new coins


[0 Points] xSwrvs:

I used mine forever and it got banned after I accidentally maxed out my card (didn't know my limit was 500 lol)


[0 Points] ventrue05:

this could all be avoided if you purchase atm/cash deposit eh?