Are we loosing? A quick solution?

We are long term Vendors across several markets.

As much as we wish the utopia as we knew could last, we really think now it's pretty obvious it's time for a change of game plan before it's too late and this is all just a memory.

Personally we feel that involving an unknown, unproven third-party who could very probably have an alternative agenda, with grave consequences, spreading details about on a small personal discreet deal is now just asking for trouble.

Just as quick as this revolution started, it is changing all the time and we need to keep on our toes and pull our heads out of our asses.

Our team lean to the assumption that SR2 and TM are both Honeypots - TM is more advanced so this SR bust thing is orchestrated to get the community to move over completely. We've proven how gullible and easy to want to believe we are.

TorMarket appeared out of nowhere looking like it came out of the hands of the government funded TOR design team. I won't go into length as to the extent of 'data capture' the ™ setup could lead too. But with on site PGP encryption, every item getting it's own personal BTC address and an encouragement to make many transactions between personal and market wallets - it does make you ponder. Account referral? Building a 'web of links' on those big boards with Vendors name at the top and bits of string connecting referred accounts. Like you see in the films.

Anyway, put all that to one side for a second, the concept of a 'man in middle' is now obviously flawed. We know as a community we can conduct ourselves honourably. Most all vendors are asking for FE now anyway. Which is fair enough with scams and money men grabbing BTC making the swinging rates unworkable to have coins held in escrow for anytime. What is the point in kidding our selves and jumping straight into other unproven markets.

Why not take the power back NOW.

All we need is someone to setup a simple as possible onion directory site. Ideally with a one page profile per vendor with contact, terms and menu and a linked forum for reviews and communication.

Then it's up to us individually to look after our own 'opsec', decide how we want to make communication with our customers and deal with payments. We know that side is safe if handled correctly. Always encouraging the best possible security measures. with no commission to anybody (maybe donation to cover minimal costs) and no pot of gold. The forum would inevitably grow into the review area that it has been used for in each market anyway.

Nobody should be getting scammed these days, and if some wants to try something they will probably fall down quicker than on a 'market' with their shitty admins and if someone has something genuine to offer and can handle the service, they will rise up.

Just a forum and a board. Then BOOM, we are no longer under one location but have scattered into a million little corners, doing our trading and building an ever stronger and advanced, secure underground scene.

We don't need the man in the middle, that's going backwards like going to meet some chump in real life, placing the risk in somebody else' hands.

The best thing is this could happen SOO quickly, agree on the plan, spend a minute getting a 'message board' up and then top Vendors get in touch with your best customers, they tell their crew, sales are made and if the thing takes off we are unstoppable. There is no risk to anyone.

Direct trading in a free market. Trust each other, and the utopia is reborn.


Comments


[9 Points] LongLiveThe_King:

A few things:

1.) Isn't THB doing something very similar?

2.) Are you just throwing ideas out or are you actually making this?

3.) Which vendors are you? Until I see a name I know I can trust, I'll think of you the same way I think of any new marketplace.

4.) Are you suggesting "always on" FE?

5.) What's up with the Reddit account name? Its sketching me out.

Besides that I think the idea needs some tweaks, but its not a bad one. In order to survive we need to adapt and only those willing to change will survive. Any and all ideas are helpful, from the absolute horrendous to the best of the best.


[5 Points] RosyPalm:

So scammers and LE will flourish, while buyers gamble with their freedom and BTC.

Buyers would be better off just googling "drug dealer" and handing their money to the first hit they get.


[5 Points] None:

We already have this. safeorscam, anyone? c'mon

I've suspected both SR2.0 and TM are honeypots too. However, it is surprising how little everyone else notices.

TMP seems far more secure, so why isn't everyone migrating there? Shouldn't safety be the number one factor when deciding where to shop?

i2p is the future. Either we realize this now, or 3+ years from now when the honeypot(s) make arrests and the remaining user base will be forced to migrate.

Please don't be the low hanging fruit.


[8 Points] some_generic_dude:

I can see how a vendor would think that's a great idea, because s/he takes zero risk. Buyers, on the other hand ...

Also, who would maintain this website, and why? So you can make a bunch of money and buyers get their product, and then site admin does all this work to facilitate all that for the satisfaction of a job well done? And your gratitude?


[6 Points] ownager:

This cut out the middleman thing is a great idea on paper but yet a 'middleman' is in fact needed to maintain the 'directory' that you suggest, which I assume is not a small task.

Maintaining such a directory carries significant risk of LE chasing your ass. Now, why would anyone take such a risk if there is no reward or minimal reward?

IMO, unless there is some ultra passionate fellow who doesn't mind risking his own freedom to do something like this, I don't think it is feasible.

What many people fail to understand is that all this is a business. And, as much as I support the movement, there wouldn't be any movement at all if it didn't make business sense.


[2 Points] AdamSandlerFan:

i2p. p2p escrow. it's there, waiting...


[2 Points] ArmsKnee:

All this talk about honey pots. People seem to forget that a honey pot would only work in America and maybe a few other countries. In my country it would be illegal for LE to run a site like that.


[2 Points] RosyPalm:

If you think I'm being hostile you should sign off and never come back. This whole internet thing will have you in tears.

Oh, and that "escrow bullshit" is a problem with using crypto currencies in general, not just black markets. How do ensure a buyer gets their goods and a vendor gets their money when neither party can be trusted 100% and the transaction is irreversible?

Either you pay up front and the vendor rips you off, or you pay on delivery and the buyer rips you off, or you have a middleman that rips both sides off.

You've got to offer an incentive for people to take on the risks. The original SR did it with escrow, resolution, promotion, hedging, etc.

The OP's solution asks the buyer to assume all the risk, offers the buyer no incentive to participate, and expects the buyer to finance the whole thing.


[1 Points] reddingsanon:

The mistake is thinking this is an "utopia" in the first place. There was always a chance that scammers will pull off their scams and LEO will get people...if it's a operation of a small group or one person, it's gonna go down somehow sometime.


[1 Points] honey_pot_plod:

Why put blind faith in a third party. It's too big a target for the reasons we've seen. Greed, Hacking, Data Collection, LE, SCAMS

Work the terms of your deal out man to man, in private and keep the noise down.

All the options are out there for escrow anyway or you could work a 50/50 thing out or perhaps someone who want's to get established could send out without escrow and get payment on delivery to a few people he may trust in the particular region or product market he wishes to break.... Anyway, I could buy all the drugs I ever needed with established vendors that I trust to hold the coins and data more than some of other thief/le. The Vendor and I have a mutual interest.

These are just ideas but god, there seems to be some mentality to trust something with a shop front to the extent of risking your liberty.

TM strikes me as some kind of NSA data capture, TOR built, sophisticated tracking honeypot.

Apologies if there is a market or service in the works that is similar.


[1 Points] Ronaldartesticles:

I would use this. I never risk anything that I can't lose though so even when I do get scammed I just charge it to the game and move on. This community is great about giving others a heads up about.


[1 Points] theghosttrade:

there needs to be a decentralized, secure marketplace, with escrow.


[1 Points] honey_pot_plod:

TorMarket: state funded superior data capture/surveillance tool (which might ironically, not be a bad thing if you keep things small scale). Could run for years!

SR2: thinking that the community would stay loyal to SR they cobbled together SR2 quickly (probably got that Anon bloke who got 120 years to do it). SMP proved this wrong and TM market is far a superior tool for le if it is dark.

TM being down: an un/planned consequence of TM being down when SR2 has/was/is dark now is that peoples confidence has been knocked along with the whole concept and they have nowhere to go for solace. LE get to take Xmas leave and will see how things play out.

Maybe it will be back on in a few days when LE have had a nice break and have prepared for the exodus. Maybe enough people will be spooked. What would be worse is if customers have become the 'target' - I can't see mass arrests but I can see letters sent out from one of 'the three letter gangs' stating all your purchases on TM, time date and product (individual BTC address per order anyone? On site 'encryption' for addresses?). Sure the savvy out there will have covered their tracks but surly some will have transferred from personal, traceable wallets. Many could have trusted their on site encryption with their addressees. Both seem poor opsec to our crew.

I just don't believe the claims in this Reddit that they have done a Sheep and coins have gone missing. BTC price is down, and anyway who the fuck would have balance on the site and why do it NOW??

And one last thing, all the noise about no Escrow and you're going to get scammed - why on earth would you trust an 'unproven' market over a trusted vendor where the situation is mutually beneficial. How many times have markets gone tits up now? How many times are you going to trust a market with your coin and personal information?

How many big vendors have been asking for a FE recently anyway, ever increasing. I don't believe that noise either otherwise as if 'DutchMagic' went scam for example, it would take two or three people to not get their order before they were called out.

I don't know why some people are so hostile to a suggested coming together of what is inevitably going to happen.


[-1 Points] knotmyrealname:

I think your post is brilliant and I agree wholeheartedly in what you are saying. Find a way to get connected electronically and then it is a "man to man" transaction.