Did people actually sell drugs on the clearnet?

Hey guys,

I'm hopelessly new to all this DNM stuff. I got my feet wet buying on Evo a couple months ago, so I unfortunately missed out on all the SR drama. I'm currently reading up on DPR and the whole seizure deal and it's very fascinating.

There's another era of online drug dealing that I haven't found much information about yet. How were things before 2011, especially in the "early" stages of the internet, early/mid 00s perhaps? I'm interested because I remember browsing 4chan occasionally back in 2005 (I was a teen edgemeister at the time) and I've always marveled at how crazily unhinged the internet was back then.

Anyone remember those days or mind sharing some stories? Just nostalgia me up.


Comments


[54 Points] jtronicustard:

There used to be a weed dealer on ebay named 'AZpets'. They sold 'dog food' and you would enter the strain you wanted in the 'comment to seller' section. You'd pay via paypal and he would ship true top shelf nugs to your ass within the week. He sent out strain lists via email request.


[44 Points] None:

People did sell drugs on clearnet sites and still do. That includes schedule I and II narcotics

I just remember how much cooler the internet was back then. youtube had no spams/ads, forums were more informative and myspace. When myspace had the trick to see who can view your profile, I discovered how many crazy stalker friends I had, men and women. The best was livejournal, king of early 2000 internet


[28 Points] neviim:

There are still clearnet sites that sell drugs. Before tor hidden services though, that was all there was. My introduction to all of this was through MOM (mail order marijuana) a term that makes searching for links incredibly frustrating. There were essentially a number of forums, some run by individual operations, others serving as a hosting ground for a number of sellers. Most of these forums were called by their initials so ZippyBud became ZB, AdamFlowers became AF, then you had WR, DTRH, and a bunch of others that I no longer remember. The forums that dealt in RC's were typically separate from MOM's because that was much more of a gray zone. A lot of people buying on the RC forums simply did not believe you could mail marijuana and get away with it. I started off on the RC forums then transitioned over to MOMs.

Most of the sellers I dealt with only sold marijuana and handled all communication through hushmail. Some of them sold other things. If I remember correctly once you had a verified purchase with ZB, you were given access to other parts of the forum where he sold LSD, cocaine etc. I remember the crazy shit he would post about the first time he went to pick up a kilo of cocaine from his suppliers. They went into a house, pressed a button, and an entire fucking bookshelf spun around just like out of the movies to reveal a veritable mountain of cocaine. Crazy shit indeed and definitely the best purity I've ever had.

Since this was before bitcoin, we used e-gold, libertyreserve, webmoney, etc. The problem with these places was that they were centralized thus represented a huge target for governments. E-gold was shutdown and had its reserves seized, I can't remember what happened to the rest.

Since these websites were essentially open access as long as you could find them, there was an issue of trust between buyers. People that established themselves with a reputation or a useful skill typically networked behind the scenes and this led to a couple really high quality private forums. These private forms (ah the good ol' days back with JL3, frip, etc) had access to incredibly high quality marijuana sellers. Many of these people sold clones and bud of impossible to find/hard to access strains (real blue dream, sploosh). Since they were private and everyone was vetted, transactions were typically cash in the mail. You would send it priority and as soon as you gave them a tracking number, they'd send out your bud. All domestic to the USA obviously. Prices were incredibly cheap compared to what is available now (esp. when you consider the lack of "processing fees" from bitcoin, markets, etc). Everyone was friendly. Sellers loved it because it was a higher class clientele.

The good ol days man :(


[17 Points] None:

[deleted]


[14 Points] firstreddituserever:

I love reading threads like these. You guys inevitably end up blowing my mind when it comes to this secret world that existed on the internet back then. While I was busy downloading shit off of Limewire/Kazaa and playing Diablo, y'all were smoking dank shit back when I could only find schwag.


[12 Points] None:

The more interesting question is whether drugs were every sold on Usenet? Or even fido-net?

My guess is that every human communication mechanism has been used to sell drugs and sex.


[13 Points] throwawayownowfk:

Thanks to the US healthcare system (or lack thereof) there's a lot of people who can't afford to buy their medication legitimately, so are forced to find other ways. There was a messageboard called 'epharmacywatch' on which users could catalogue reputable online pharmacies and report if/when real drugs turned up. Typically a site would show up, vend for a while, then start scamming or disappear altogether. Sound familiar? :) This was around 2005 or so, I think.

They seemed to mostly sell drugs that may have been prescription in the US or UK, but were OTC or minimally controlled wherever the site was. Benzos were common, but I don't recall seeing any opiates stronger than codeine on their websites.

Having said that, I did my research and sent an email to the five-or-so most highly reputed sites I could find, showing an interest in purchasing some codeine and asking if they had anything stronger. And that, gentle reader, is how some guy in the Phillipines became my first Oxy hookup.


[9 Points] Deeside420:

Nobody else remembers Budmail and DutchGreenClub?


[8 Points] None:

[deleted]


[9 Points] C4000c:

Back in the day I found my first connect over topix, that forum was wild as fuck people just posting cities and phone numbers out on the forum for anyone to see. I met this dude and it went fine he sold me some samples to prove he was legit and ended up selling me 1000's of xan at a time for the low low along with some random 30s and stuff (he was pressing and most people did not think about presses at the time) and I was getting them at quantik prices all though I don't fuck with xan anymore


[8 Points] None:

RC's (as long as they're unscheduled) are still sold pretty openly on the clearnet. I don't event bother with DNMs for 4-aco-dmt or 1p-lsd, for example.


[5 Points] bitcunttt:

Used to do it way back in the day. This was before bitcoin, before silk road, TOR probably existed but I didn't know about it. The hard part was finding reliable vendors since the major drug forums have a no sourcing rule. Once you got the hang of it and knew what to search for it wasn't that bad. Once you found a potential vendor you would use safeorscam to see reviews. No one really used PGP. Most people used hush-mail because we didn't know any better. Some people used credit cards...a well known now defunct Canadian vendor accepted credit cards for various RCs. I used western union, no ID under $1000. Until e-gold came along and some great Chinese vendors starting using that. I mostly ordered RCs. This was before the great RC stim rush so most RCs were psychedelics and that's my thing. One Chinese vendor offered this amazing synthetic DMT for a while...this stuff came in one big shiny crystal rock. Back then no one really knew about the internet drug trade; so I didn't worry about ordering from China - plus it was mostly grey area. Hartark was my favorite. I was always amazed when I would receive an order from China in 3 days.


[4 Points] DaMenehune:

Has happened on IRC in private channels for a long time.


[4 Points] methhead_mike57:

Selling online was wide spread before SR appeared on the scene, except it was decentralized.

topix.com drugbuyers.com safeorscam.com

everything was conducted through email, usually hushmail or safemail, and funds were transferred through western union or money gram.


[4 Points] plethorashooawayyhoe:

salvia, its illegal in my state .


[5 Points] dnmbcb5456:

It's always come from forums, to be honest. There have been forums for just about every specific interest since modem speeds got suped up to 14.4k. Bluelight, Erowid, and the likes were some of the more poular ones. But even that was years later. .alt groups, private bbs(dial-up bulletin board systems). To be honest, people have been buying, selling, and trading drugs on the web since it began, and it's just slowly but surely evolved into today's DNM's. I traded h for mescaline on a dial up bbs in 92', and I bought 10 grams of ketamine on bluelight in 2000. It was simple back then.. security was always in place, but small, tight-knit groups almost made it redundant. I've been in security for a long time, and even though I work with it every day, it almost seems crazy to me at times. The steps I went through for the 10pk of xanax "I DID NOT" pick up sometime last week, would make 1992 me's head spin.


[3 Points] II-NataYmleg:

In the late 90s I searched with HotBot and virtually whatever I searched for, every second link would be Russian animal porn, carding instructions, gore, extreme anarchistic lecture or an e-mail drug vendor.

The usenet was already king of the online space (it was and stayed a parallel alternative to the WWW until this very day) and more people used it than today. Mostly for downloading multipart binaries, which would invariably be .gif porn. Bandwith was expensive! Not everyone could afford Dual ISDN, which was still damn slow.


[3 Points] BlackGoatSemen:

Me with my 14.4kbps exterior modem phishing accounts on AoL.


[3 Points] ahphoenix:

As other people here have said, dealing/buying drugs has been around way before silkroad was around.

A lot of the things I were involved with required heavily on vouching for one another and was almost exclusively invite only. If you didn't know a few people then it was fairly difficult to get involved in as most of the people in the particular scene I was involved with were heavily paranoid (as they should be).

I doubt anyone here remembers but I was involved with RCML/RCDG (Research chemical mailing list/ Research chemical discussion group) which was popular around 2002-2004.

It was a whole different ball game and much of it used ecurrency like egold/liberty reserve.


[3 Points] 2birds1bone:

There's still a huge clearnet drug market, especially for pharmaceuticals.

You obtain an email address and send a request for a price list. Some dude in mexico replies with details. You waddle down to Walmart and send a moneygram. Reply to mexico bro with the confirmation number and shipping address. He verifies it and has a package sent 2nd day air from California.

Legit Roche Valium, Pfizer xanax bars, 30 mg Roxie's, Ritalin etc.

I'm not an active member of DNMs, but I kind of laugh at all the people in the us that get excited over amateur-pressed bars and RCs from China. Better shit is available domestically.


[3 Points] thed00der:

It may have been mentioned already, but XanaxKing guy who got busted was selling through his own clearnet site along with on SR and SR2.0.

They caught him with enough pure alprazolam (xanax) powder and filler to press something like over 3 million pills.


[2 Points] stamp_collecting:

Oh god yes, did they ever sell on the clearnet. I used to order from BI (aka Blatantly Illegal) sites once in a while. They were all sketchy as hell and required Western Union payments, usually with a minimum order so you'd be out a decent chunk of change if you did get ripped off. I know there are still sites like them still around, but wonder how many are actually legit these days. Used to research the hell out of the BI sites on the forums to see how many people got scammed, go to one of those sites and email an order, drop by a local WU location, and shuffle my feet uneasily as the bored woman across the counter typed the Ciudad Juarez address into the system. As if she gave a rat's ass. Then I'd be waiting for a few/several days hoping I hadn't been burned. Only got ripped off once on a "test" order but overall it worked okay for the time. When I heard about SR1, my wishes had been granted. Fuck those BI sites. BNM FTW.


[2 Points] 7112meaxl:

Actually, the first thing MIT used the Internet for was to buy weed lol

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/apr/19/online-high-net-drugs-deal


[2 Points] krimpus:

I used to use a couple of forums to buy RCs, other people who weren't me bought more illicit things of these said forums. One of them was called legalhighguides, place was super sketchy.


[2 Points] Yourconscious69:

I got into the online drug scene in 2008. Mostly RC forums first such as LHG, EK, HPLCP, TAS, RR. Then 2009 I discovered onionland. Found my way to the Open Vendor Database. Met a LSD vendor named Taurpalin <3 I wish he was still around. Sold 10 sheets for $1500-2000. The LSD market today is way to overpriced and manipulated to maximize profit instead of spreading the amazing molecule.


[2 Points] None:

yeah I have a dealer selling stuff on ebay as cds.


[2 Points] NoEyesMcGee:

Forums were the main method of communicating, and people saying PGP was uncommon are right. This was much to the chagrin of people who knew better, who kept encouraging everyone to use it.

Infact, the first onion forums that came along were mocked because everyone else thought they were just being too paranoid. Regular forums had always worked fine, what was the big deal? <- Doesn't that sound familiar?

I've been around since probably 2005, right after Web Tryp. I remember Raw Deal happening and everyone jumping off hushmail. People were dumb. I mean, they still are, but even after the steroid vendors got busted and hushmail outright said they decrypted stuff for LE people were STILL not using PGP. "It's always been this way. It's fine."

The non-BTC was nice though, very convenient. There were a bunch of forums I was lucky enough to be part of. Supp, TC, TC2, TLG, BB, PF, and a couple more private ones that likely wouldn't be recognized. The good old days indeed.

Let the dead be dead though, mate.


[2 Points] Novelty-Bobble:

I brought some bud from topix once pre-dark net. There was other stuff, mostly benzos. The place was 99% scammers though, including one guy who just kept setting himself up as avfender, offering free samples then threatening to dox everyone unless they shilled for him.

There were other MOM sites that we supposedly legit like budbiz and dutch green club. There was a party site that sold pills and ket and stuff as well but I can't remember then name


[1 Points] None:

I remember when I was a teen I would spend all the money I got buying fake weed on Amazon, I thought it was so cool I could get high by buying Amazon cards and having it mailed to me. I was pretty sad when they stopped selling on there.

Then when I heard about the DNM's about a year ago, I jizzled just a bit.


[1 Points] clearnetdrugguy:

yeah I was really heavy into this back in the day. ou would just go getyourself a fake ID to pick up money from western union and then you could send it without ID for less than a thousand but some workers were dicks, even if you had the secret code they would want to write shit down. shouts out to that OPR dude that was one of my first forums but there were a lot more that if you had something to offer you would get invited to via PM.

Also you would get maybe get invited if you hung around certain IRC rooms. if anyone has questions psot them here i was doing this shit for like 4 years and was well known in the community.


[1 Points] None:

I was pretty much introduced to the world of research chemicals by one clearnet vendor in 2010. Because of him, I tried 2C-E, 4-AcO-DMT, 6-APB, MXE, 4-FA, and maybe a couple of others. All of the really A++ chems in their own right, and all of his stuff was QUALITY at a good price. Simply sent a money order and then bam, drugs showed up at my door :D Good ol' days.


[1 Points] dankscammed:

online poker review


[1 Points] Pie_Hoodlum:

It's not uncommon to find people offering methamphetamine a for sale through Craigslist in my area, stuff like "ice cold drinks for sale" etc, if your into that sort of thing it's very easy to spot.


[1 Points] CavemanJah:

Used to buy from budmonkey.com in the early 2000s always good stuff or a good price for low grade £70/oz only stealth was a smelly proof bag. Used to order Magic Mushrooms by the Kilo Before they were made illegaland they were usually partially dry by the time they arrived making them illegal anyway.


[1 Points] Garciafan419:

Yup those were the good old days when you could get anything in bulk for amazing prices if you knew where to look. Lanel, Ovdb, are a few that I loved but my favorite was the bible


[1 Points] alphabigmouth:

Yeah I used to order weed from some Canadian that had a website and he'd mail you joints he'd actually rolled. Never had a single issue. Not a single package ever had a tracking number. Was a cool way to experience some varieties of BC Bud.


[1 Points] Giggs-:

Topix news forums use to have a massive drugs market. It was completely open. Use to buy benzos on there. Had no idea how it lasted so long.


[1 Points] dog_on_acid:

"The Hive" was the first. It was also the best (including DN stores). It opened the doorway to RCs, selling drugs online and modernising drug culture. It was mostly chemists and people who knew their shit so it was golden. The information gleaned from there during the break-up was some of the most useful information around. What was left is still hosted on Rhodium and the archives but the vast majority was lost. Such a shame.

EDIT: You occasionally hear about fantastic drugs that were discovered there, far surpassing any we have today but now they're just stuff of myth and legend.


[1 Points] jimgear:

I'm primarily a steroid user who dabbles with DNM for benzos, and all of my steroid buying is via clearnet.

There's a ton of "source boards", you basically just communicate via some sort of encrypted email, then send money via western union, cash in mail, or, once you've established trust, just email money transfer.


[1 Points] JesusdiedLOLOL:

back in 2005? Lol try the 90's and buying xanax for 8 cents a piece online.


[1 Points] Gratefulstickers:

In early 03-04 I would trade things through something awfuls forum TCC The Crackhead Clubhouse. The days when We would simply pop open a CD case and throw some pills or LSD in the back. Fun


[1 Points] None:

People still sell drugs on the clear net. I've done deals on safe-mail through tour with pgp. No really difference from a dnm


[1 Points] gary_oaks_bud_garden:

Did?

You mean do.


[1 Points] CanadaThroAway:

The RC scene started on the clearnet. Using SafeorScam to check sources forums were the number one way. LegalHighGuides, Euphoric Knowledge, TheAlteredStates all were vendor honeypots. RC vendors are still dominant on the clearnet and maybe 1% of their business is dark.


[1 Points] dethcone:

There was a ve dor xanaxking I believe that opened a clearnet site. I believe that was more recently.


[1 Points] zachleez:

yep i remember the good old days 2008 to 2010 on supplier and lanel, theoneandonlysource i miss those days, i still owe someone money for the cid they sent me


[0 Points] loveisrealnfa:

They still do, and its way more blatant than it ever was. Back then crxpharm (wayback machine it) was like the only one but now there are way more Dot c oms selling schedule ones.

Back in the day, it was all done by email and aided by forums for reviews. Tor started gaining traction in the online drug world in 2007/2008. Shoutout to my peeps from opr, haimfanclub, lanel, supplier.


[0 Points] None:

mcdumpals.cm


[0 Points] None:

People want der druuuugs


[0 Points] glavnogo-inzhenera:

Back in the day we used science alliance and we made our own drugs. Shit was pure. Ahhh....the good old days.


[0 Points] SecondChanceUsername:

Ive heard there were sources that used to be very popular/succesfull who did biz on topix, SOS and sites like that who actually still operate on DNMs! They must pay off some people in very high places for immunity. One example that comes to mind is Listonishere a.k.a. Liston andhe has been around since topix, SR and still does biz now on DN(his operation definitely has some kind of immunity for operating this long) and they're really good vendors with good products and prices.People even still do face to face deals just by meeting each other through forum Apps on smartphones(grasscity) which aren't the most reliable or best deals or products but once ya get the hang pf it they stilted to work, and i think LE pretty much leaves them alone. Hell, I've known people who've sold (and still probably do operate) via eBay, craigslist. I mean they've cracked down, but theres also LEGAL clearnet sites for RCs there aiibaba and if you are round the DNM scene and active on the hidden forums people might trust you to do biz with via email. Email is still best option IMO.


[0 Points] rogueXleader:

They still do...


[0 Points] rudetopigs:

They still do sell drugs on the clearnet


[0 Points] thorpgm:

DNMNoob here, what's the SR drama and DPR he's talking about?


[0 Points] None:

They still do in Europe.


[0 Points] olivertwistme:

2000 - 2006 was the Golden age for Lortab and Xanax sales. All you had to do was to have a "consultation" with some doctor in Florida who could hardly speak English and he would ask you what you wanted and you would tell him 150 10mg Lortab a month and 120 Xanax Bars. HE/She would say okay the total will be (about $100 per bottle a month) and two days later you would get your shit. Ha - you could refill every 23 days too! Then after three months you would have another "consultation" and round and round it goes. That was before I was into hardcore stuff and these bottles would last me and my friends ALL month. Then I figured out how much they were worth! Anyways they got rid of that around 2007ish. After that it was all about doctor shopping and damn was I good at that!


[0 Points] None:

Does anyone remember #dxm and T3P? ? This thread had me thinking


[-2 Points] None:

people sell drugs to complete strangers without any sort of opsec every day in a million different ways, drug dealers are idiots


[-12 Points] ggfdss:

nostalgia