Misinformation Being Spread in Regards to Rule 41.

Deep breaths everybody, relax.

The mass-hysteria on this sub as of late is ridiculous, some would say comical. People are spreading misinformation left, right and centre. Its apparent that a lot of people haven't actually bothered reading up on what they are changing about the rule, and instead they are believing the first thing they read. Here is the change;

(6) a magistrate judge with authority in any district where activities related to a crime may have occurred has authority to issue a warrant to use remote access to search electronic storage media and to seize or copy electronically stored information located within or outside that district if: (A) the district where the media or information is located has been concealed through technological means; or (B) in an investigation of a violation of 18 U.S.C. ยง 1030(a)(5), the media are protected computers that have been damaged without authorization and are located in five or more districts.

For a warrant to use remote access to search electronic storage media and seize or copy electronically stored information, the officer must make reasonable efforts to serve a copy of the warrant on the person whose property was searched or whose information was seized or copied. Service may be accomplished by any means, including electronic means, reasonably calculated to reach that person.

Show me where, in that change, it states that using VPN's/Tor will have you labelled as a criminal? Exactly, you can't. So why am I seeing this baseless claim everywhere?

The Government will be fucking loving this, can you blame them? Everybody is running around like headless chickens, wailing their arms about as if its the end of the world, throwing all logic out of the window.

People are actually saying they are going to stop using VPN's and Tor as it might result in them being put on a 'list'!! Do you not think this is exactly what the government would want? Inciting fear to get as much people as possible to stop masking their identity, making people easier to track down and survey? Wait, they didn't even need to incite fear, the majority of people have done that of their own volition.

Furthermore, have people forgot about PRISM, ECHELON, Xkeyscore etc? It would appear so as the majority of people are acting, somewhat, surprised that the government wants to extend/utilise its surveillance capabilities.

So I'm struggling to understand why people are saying they will stop using the markets etc (Angel, I'm looking at you), its absurd. An important aspect of privacy tools is strength in numbers, therefore bailing is doing nobody any good.

What we are seeing is a huge game of Chinese whispers, and the end result is over-exaggerated, unprecedented, bullshit. To the people who are sharing this (mis)information having done no research yourself, and instead just passing on what you've been told. PLEASE DON'T!. This kind of exaggeration is harming privacy itself.

Mods, can you please sticky a topic outlining the actual changes of this Rule? It'd clear up a lot of confusion. Maybe a discussion sticky on the matter, or something.

Example of an inaccurate article which many people are basing their claims on

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161122/10381536112/bill-introduced-to-push-back-approval-dojs-proposed-rule-41-changes.shtml

TLDR; Research things for yourself before making claims and stating things as fact.

Sorry for the long post. I'm not even American so this has no effect on me (jurisdiction wise), but I had to get it off my chest.

https://noglobalwarrants.org/images/proposed-amendment-rule-41.pdf

https://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/dojrule41.pdf


Comments


[56 Points] octomarvel:

Strength in numbers is the key.

Weed was illegal forever but everyone still smoked it and now look.

Strength in numbers people.

=)


[22 Points] None:

Angel is guilty of some pretty reckless social engineering imo.


[16 Points] basinko:

Tl;Dr: If you're some normal person ordering weed off the internet using correct opsec, they probably still won't fuck with you. If you're a vendor who slipped up and caught the wrong attention, it'll be easier for them to obtain the same warrant they were going to get anyways.


[8 Points] 777trashme777:

I have always assumed that the government kept track of Tor usage. If they want to bust you, they can. This isn't a question. As we have seen time and time again LEO will make up or manufacture probable cause if they want to. Our only defense is in numbers. If a million people an hour use Tor then we are lost in a sea of Tor users. If a thousand people an hour are using Tor, then we are much more visible and possibly identifiable. Our defense is in numbers and the anonymity that comes with it. Also PGP.


[11 Points] agentgreasy:

"Your surprise is more concerning than the situation. The fact that you are so naive as to not believe you are actively being tracked, is the reason they succeed in the first place."

This is by far one of the most common things I say to people who I interact with regarding any security announcement. Psychologically we want to believe we are safe because its what helps us sleep at night.

Something everyone should probably realize is we rely upon a number of things that were created under dual auspices of both national security and personal privacy. The combined usage of such, should demonstrate the realistic side of this situation. While as a community of like minded, generally intelligent individuals, we can work together to come up with solutions that are typically better and more out-of-the-box as theirs we are doing so under the wrong pretense: we are not different from them, except by principals and our beliefs. Otherwise, we seek the same things, but we do so in manners contrary to theirs.

The rule change is having the effect they wanted. It introduced fear. Fear leads to mistakes. Stay the course. Do not let fear get the better of you. Nothing has changed about the technology, nor has anything changed about your rights - they're still being violated whether the law is with them or not. Furthermore, the rule change does not modify or even alter the truth: they fear us, as well.

Finally, there is no indication of change in the suspicion of wrong doing. I don't know where people are getting that one. Some of us will remember where simply being on a computer for more than a few hours made you suspicious, or having a certain kind of music. That situation has not changed for many of us, its just the indicator has moved from mundane things to a more specific focus - as they're running out of ways to classify us. This is a positive trend - it means they're running out of things to tell us apart from everyone else.

So, please, don't make it easier for them again. Crowds make for better cover.


[3 Points] None:

https://noglobalwarrants.org/images/proposed-amendment-rule-41.pdf


[3 Points] kebabwhy:

Thank Christ. Some fucking logic about this finally.


[2 Points] None:

https://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/dojrule41.pdf


[2 Points] Bitcointhrowaway2Q:

You're right, what it says is if we use tor they can have any judge on the country sign the warrant and I'm sure there will be one or two judges that are known to always sign warrants.


[2 Points] CynicalElephant:

/u/mdmangel if you still login, read this thread.


[1 Points] None:

[deleted]


[1 Points] Lyok0:

I said the same thing a few days ago too haha. I even went out to find out what exactly the change does that wasn't from techdirt (techdirt seems odd because all the links they have in their articles just link to other articles from techdirt in a seemingly endless chain). Ended up finding an article on the DoJs website itself showing a summary of the change. Odd stuff man


[1 Points] nomorebullshittt:

People love panic.


[1 Points] nameless993:

Thank you for this. The FUD around here is spreading like black mold.


[-1 Points] itsokaydude:

better safe than sorry?


[-2 Points] lordredvampire:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161122/10381536112/bill-introduced-to-push-back-approval-dojs-proposed-rule-41-changes.shtml

The proposed changes would allow the FBI to hack thousands of computers around the world with a single warrant, much like it already did

In addition, the DOJ wants permission to break into "compromised" computers and poke around inside them without the permission or knowledge of the owners of these computers. It also wants to treat anything that anonymizes internet users or hides their locations to be presumed acts of a guilty mind. The stripping of jurisdictional limits not only grants the FBI worldwide access for digital seizures and searches, but also encourages it to go venue shopping for judicial rubber stamps