CMV: DNMs should shut down all vendors selling material designed to steal from people such as carders and fake money and precious metal

This does nothing but introduce the worst criminal scum into the DNMs which should be strictly drugs and other prohibited items that are not designed to harm another person. If these folks want to make their own DNM specifically for scamming and other criminal mischief, that is their perogative, but they should be ostracized on any respectable marketplace.

There is no honor among thieves! It's no coincidence the admins of Evo were ex-carders. Fuck these low life types.


Comments


[34 Points] CocaineNose:

Some of the worst people I know are junkies and drug dealers. They steal, rip people off and sell garbage on a daily basis. I know there's a lot of hate for carders here, but your loss of money has nothing to do with carders.


[24 Points] Theeconomist1:

I get where you are coming from. I don't like identity related crime. But I'd venture to guess there are a group of people who think the same with us drug users. From a practical standpoint i do wish identity related stuff would be separated from drugs bc more heat is on financial crimes. But then I guess where does it stop. The weed users will wish heroin wasn't sold on the same sites bc of the increased scrutinity and risk.

In other words, it's hard to do something like this except by letting market forces decide. If drug users wouldn't patronize sites that allowed identity crimes, then maybe this would happen. But I don't see this happening.


[22 Points] Pycretes:

Drug use should not be a crime, stealing identities and defrauding people 100% should be, this should not just be a hang out for criminals it should be a front line to the war on drugs.


[7 Points] Derrick4Real:

I don't think they should shut down current vendors selling such wares on already established DNMs. It is kind of too late to do that.

However, I do feel the next iteration of DNMs should focus on only selling narcotics:

The Dark Net Narcotics Market is what I'd name it. There have been several Marijuana DNMs that did fairly well...I don't see why there can't be a DNM that only allows drugs to be sold that does very well too.

One market...only drugs. Vendors have a choice to sell the aforementioned goods on other DNMs...there are plenty of them.

Doing so would also make it less opportunistic to multiple Federal agencies. Still a target...but no focus on fraud, simply drug users and drug buyers "harming" themselves and no one else.


[8 Points] None:

agreed... they let in counterfeit drugs and carding is not a victim-less crime. good riddance to evolution. 90% good feedback is a 1 in 10 horrible, horrible. this community needs to up its standards after that shit show.


[4 Points] CM_GeneralRosakovo:

On Crypto Market we only allow drugs to be sold, and harmless ebooks + porn accounts.

No carding, fraud or weapons.


[1 Points] iGetSpankShit:

I completely agree, anyone trying to argue is attempting to justify carding/fraud. Fuck those people. Getting ripped off by a drug dealer as someone mentioned.. weigh your drugs, test kit your drugs..


[3 Points] xfinity9293489:

As posted by the_avid who called Evolutions scam 5 month prior:

Flash back for a moment to the original Silk Road - it ran without much attention for two and a half years. It wasn't until the story in Gawker which lead to the widespread publicity that any action was taken. It was the letter from Senators Schumer and Manchin which directly lead to the Senate enquiry which lead to the DOJ + FBI investigation into Silk Road. That was the chain of events which lead to SR1 and DPR1 going down.

When you have that type of publicity politicians and LE feel compelled to act. In that same chain of events, the carders are now at the point where public pressure is again leading LE to act - and their targets are almost certainly going to be the online carding marketplaces and autoshops.

So the question is with all of this public attention on carders, where do the drug markets want to be? Tied up with them directly or as far away as possible?

Separating the drug markets would involve:

a. the regular DNM's not listing fraud items b. drug vendors and users not using the fraud markets

I feel like there should be a clear delineation and users should be made aware.

You cant expect the market operators or the market itself to change, but the /r/dnm mods should put their foot down and place warnings next to markets who allow fraud.


[3 Points] gwern:

I'm not sure carding makes a meaningful difference to market lifetimes, empirically. I originally thought it might, so while compiling my table of blackmarkets I kept track of whether markets allowed carding and similar items. When I run an analysis right now with the up to date table (including Evolution's demise), carding does not seem to affect risk/hazard/lifetimes - their rates are 95%/99% of the others and this trivially small difference is not statistically-significant:

cmodel <- coxph(Surv(Age, Alive) ~ Multisig + I2P + Bitcoin+Litecoin+Dogecoin+Darkcoin + Codebase + Guns + Fraud + Hacks + Doxed, data = black); cmodel
# ...
#                          coef   exp(coef)    se(coef)            z        p
# ...
# FraudTRUE          -0.0418326 9.59030e-01 1.16591e+00 -3.58798e-02 0.971380
cmodel2 <- coxph(Surv(Age, Alive) ~ ridge(Multisig, I2P, Bitcoin,Litecoin,Dogecoin,Darkcoin, Guns, Fraud, Hacks, Doxed), data = black); cmodel2
# ...
#                 coef        se(coef) se2      Chisq DF p    
# ...
# ridge(Fraud)    -0.00171608 0.444020 0.303019 0.00  1  1.000
exp(-0.0418326)
# [1] 0.9590303088
exp(-0.00171608)
# [1] 0.9982853916


[2 Points] ShulginsCat:

I don't know how much this would affect the chances of an exit scam, if that's what you're implying.

However, from a market owner's perspective they would probably want to keep it to one crime in order to avoid: (A) multiple agencies going after them, from different realms of the law and (B) multiple conspiracy charges - one for drugs, one for computer crimes, etc.


[2 Points] None:

Yup, just bash the carders; they're the most terrible people in the world omgomgomg. Are you aware of where your coke, heroin, and prescription drugs are coming from and the crime you're supporting? it's way worse things than carding ;)


[2 Points] what_the_fudge_mon:

It always blows my mind when people act so closed minded towards fraud sales because there are "victims". Which there are, I'm not denying that.

However, at least there is no violence and bloodshed found in fraud as there is in the drug trade.

From cartels to child slavery to funding terrorists, there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes so that you are able to get your bag of heroin or coke.

Come on, don't be so naive. I'm sure you all have seen the news. The only thing a stolen cc does is piss off a person who is inconvenienced. At least fraud is not responsible for the deaths, rapes, and civil unrest that comes with getting the product that rhymes with hugs :)

I also see a lot of mention that the law cracks down harder on fraud than drugs. That makes me laugh as I have never seen a factual source of that info. Only opinions from those who wish to justify their habbits.

Fun Reads!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/slaves-human-trafficking-victims-forced-work-cannabis-farms-uk-1463479

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-spoils-of-war-afghanistan-s-multibillion-dollar-heroin-trade/91

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War


[1 Points] lnsaf:

Why can't we sell precious metals as long as they are real? I don't get it. Your other points make sense


[1 Points] GrandWizardsLair:

How do you plan on stopping DNMs from offering these items and services? If you're just doing this to voice your Stern Disapproval that's all well and good. But so long as people will buy fraud-related materials other people will sell them -- and that means other people will set up places where they can be bought and sold.

The Grand Wizard suggests if you don't like fraud-related items don't buy them. If you feel very strongly about the issue, work toward setting up your very own fraud-free marketplace. And always use good judgment with your personal info and take steps to avoid becoming a victim of fraud or identity theft. But so long as you have free marketplaces, you're going to have free marketplaces selling things you don't like.


[-1 Points] pantherswin:

Carding will always have a presence on DNM. Most DNM admins/mods are involved in fraud one way or another. Get over it.


[1 Points] fun4dayz:

I totally agree with the OP. In fact just yesterday I was on Nucleus market forum and saw a post of someone selling info on how to exit scam on the DNM. I was fucking floored and even replied to the post and gave my 2 cents and said I couldn't believe they even let people sell shit like that. It just pissed me off to think that someone would post instructions on how to exit scam like wtf. Anyway I haven't been back to check if anyone replied cause I care less and said my peace which is all I can do. Just left me wondering if anyone else thought it was as shitty as I do.


[2 Points] Insanity_-_Wolf:

What is it with this idiot on his high horse? Many people turn to the darknet when they need to source product to make a living. I could just aswell argue that drugs have a net negative impact on communities not only because of violence and prohibition. You can ruin entire communities because of your selfish desire to make a quick buck. Fraud isn't as simple as everyone here makes it out to be. If you came to these markets seeking profit and had half a brain, you'd quickly realise which "activities" have the best risk/reward ratio. I don't know of anyone that turns to dealing simply out of their altruistic motives. Most fraud involves credit card scams, although not "victimless", the only consequence the "victim" will have to face is half an hour on the phone with their bank followed by a federally guaranteed refund. Identity theft is usually a widely inefficient and thus, not as common as you'd think.

Now on the other hand we have you, who's trying to profit off of drugs. You'll quickly realize that 'light' drugs like psychadelics and weed won't make you as much as downers and uppers(I don't need to mention the dynamic of repeat customers here do I?). So you do what any reasonable buisness person would do and move up. Now you have to live with the fact that many of your customer's lives may be completely ruined. It's important to note that the people seeking harder drugs are likely going through a difficult period in their lives and want an escape/temporary relief. Your actions can very well lead to their death. If they become addicted to these substances, they'll likely hurt those closest to them on top of struggling for the prospects of a better future.

So please, realise what you're saying. Drugs bring their fair share of problems and it just so happens that most people thought early on that the best course of action was prohibition to shield them from these horrors. The DNM's are an interesting idea, but they don't exist for moralities sake. All that these sites exist for is to fill a market gap. Most of the vendors here aren't even that high up the food chain. Their products often stem dirrectly from violent criminal organizations and cartels. Entire nations are corrupted because these groups have so much influence. Police often turn a blind eye or take bribes because they know from experience that their familie's lives are at stake. Without any regulation, competition between cartels turns into complete barbarism and if you get caught in the crossfire, too bad. But you know, it's those carders that are the scum of the earth.


[1 Points] BarnCat420:

Let me start off by saying honor does exist among thieves. Personally, I only steal what won't be missed, and NEVER from individuals. It's absolutely true that some of us are lowlifes that would steal from their grandmother's wallet, but the majority of us are not. We don't go after some sweet old lady's debit card so she can't afford to pay her heating bill. We go for the corporate executive's platinum credit line. When we make charges on a card that isn't ours we aren't stealing from anyone. The target eventually sees the charge(s) they didn't make, calls up the bank and gets their money back. The banks and financial institutions are the ones who eat the loss, and god knows they have plenty of money to lose. So I figure if someone's smart enough to drain away a little bit for themselves here and there then why not? Other fraud related data such as fullz and scans can be used for anonymity purposes too. What if you want an anonymous bank account? Or if you want to buy bitcoins anonymously and the exchange requires ID scans?

I see very little wrong with causing someone a minor inconvenience to get a payday. Do you honestly think that the public will think any better of DNMs as a whole if they decided to stop selling a few types of information? Don't kid yourself, you're a part of the criminal underground just as much as the rest of us. So please, step down from your high horse.


[1 Points] JacWilliston23:

Or at least create a dedicated market for these illegal activities.


[1 Points] twigburst:

Don't use DNMs that have the sections you speak of. These retards keep losing coins because the same markets end up scamming them and wonder why.


[1 Points] SpaceCaseBassFace:

I understand what you're saying, but it just isn't practical. There will always be low-life types in the drug business. Even if you keep the scam artists and carders off the site people will still get fucked over, and the feds still won't see dealing drugs as the victimless crime that we (and anyone with common sense) do.

The convenience and relative safety of DNM's make it easy to forget that you can still get fucked over and have nothing you can do about it.


[1 Points] gonzobon:

Carders steal from banks. Processing firms. Credit Card companies.

The end user files a dispute when they see the charges. They get their money back.

Carders are the living embodiment of "why bitcoin"

I'm not a carder and I never will be. But it makes sense. Taking advantage of a broken system for monetary gain.


[1 Points] Opikit:

Are you fucking serious? You nerds need to fuck off. Drug dealing is grimey business. Always has been always will be... Shit isn't safe. People aren't nice. It's the Low of the low. Scum of the scum but u want to " ban the bad guys who want to hurt pepel plz???" Fucking prick. Destiny didn't want people like you to be part of our culture!!! You were meant to play videogames and read SciFi, not buy drugs.


[0 Points] None:

If I'm correct, doesn't one of the Russian dnm's ban carders?


[0 Points] Therealfed1:

why precious metals the hell did they do?


[0 Points] None:

[deleted]


[0 Points] Malaysia_flight_370:

Why precious metals?


[0 Points] None:

Agreed. Get rid of guns and other deadly weapons as well. All this does is taint the already negative image of the market, and provides the media with an even bigger spark to wreck it for all of us. I can't stand being associated with those who intentionally want to cause harm to others through fraud, theft, or violence. I would argue that the majority of people simply want to purchase drugs for personal consumption, and this is a rather victimless crime when compared to knowingly stealing information and ruining peoples lives.


[1 Points] Tripple_T:

We are all criminal low lifes, whether we are druggies or scammers. So I really don't understand the high horse you're on.