[USA] Do you prefer the clearnet over the darknet for RCs?

This is from /r/RCSources. Look at the comments in the original thread.

These people should use safer drugs. If they use research chemicals then they should use proper OpSec. I attempted adding this warning and my post was deleted by the auto moderator.


You shouldn't purchase drugs on the clearnet. If you live in the United States recognize several things when considering risks.

1: The United States incarcerates the most people on the planet. They aggressively prosecute and incarcerate low level non-violent drug offenders.

2: In the United States the federal conviction rate is nearly 100%. Almost every defendant pleads guilty or is convicted guilty. In United States federal courts ~00.6% of defendants receive verdicts of not guilty.

3: "Research chemicals" aren't legal in the United States. The Wikipedia article on the Federal Analogue Act is out of date. Somebody should update the article. After the introduction of synthetic cannabinoids the government began successfully using the Federal Analogue Act in prosecutions. If they arrest you in possession of "research chemicals" remotely resembling schedule I, II, or III drugs they'll prosecute and convict you of possession of controlled substance analogues. Research the Federal Analogue Act and synthetic cannabinoids.

Oepration Log Jam

Oepration Synthetic Web

4: Notice none of the "research chemical" vendors in the United States remain in business long. Look on the darkent markets (r/darknetmarkets) and notice multiple vendors of schedule I drugs have been in business 3+ years.

5: Psychedelics and marijuana have strong therapeutic potential. Our parents made made some mistakes in stigmatizing and criminalizing these tools. Psychedelics gave me a new way of knowing the world, yeah. Obtaining these resources has both risks and benefits. Be cautious while us older people find compromise on the social problems mentioned above. We are working on solutions, and progress is being made.


I learned the clearnet isn't safe in the United States, even with supposedly "Not For Human Consumption" research chemicals. Is the darknet safer when ordering drugs on the internet?


Comments


[9 Points] alltheshrams:

The federal statistics are so high because they only take on cases they know are slam dunks. Any case that there's even a slight possibility they might lose, they'll usually just hand it over to the state to pursue state charges instead, as almost every federal crime has a state equivalent or will have elements involved that can be charged at the state level.

If you think that federal court is "unfair" to defendants based on the conviction statistics alone, you really have no clue how the federal system differs from state courts. The filtering system at the federal level and their ability to cherry pick sure things while tossing the rest to the states is the entire reason for the skewed stats.


[8 Points] None:

I'd just like to preface and say I'm a follower and supporter of both clear net and dark net, and I really have no bias, which clearly you're post asking for 'discussion' does

I'm not sure I understand the point of this post, you're asking for discussion but are clearly hating on the RC scene

These people should use safer drugs

Wut? There are unsafe drugs in all stretches of the internet, this post was to discuss where you prefer buying your RC's and yet you decide to judge the people on what they buy...you think all the drugs on the DNM are safe? How often do we see posts about vendors sending incorrect products, vendors using harmful chemicals or misrepresenting, it happens, you must be cautious no matter where you buy your drugs, there is always an element of un safety if you're not responsible.

Yes there are unsafe RC's, such as synthetic canibanoids, as are there unsafe drugs that can be purchased on DNM. The whole point is people have the right to purchase and use what they want, and they are responsible for takin precautions when using any drug, DNM or clearnet..who are you to judge what people can and cannot use?

2

This has already been addressed by other comments, and I really fail to see how this directly relates to using a specific market over the other, clear net RC vendors exist for a reason, it's not just coincidence LE doesn't shut them all down..

4

Do you have a source to prove this? I read stories of DNM vendors leaving/getting busted/exit scamming on a same proportional ratio as any RC vendor. I've been following both scenes for a while now, and there are more DNM exit scams than clearnet, however there are probably more RC vendors that just 'chose' to stop vending, or move to a different product, but even then in the past year or so I've seen maybe 5-6 notable vendors stop vending in the RC scene, one of them had legal issues with a customer revoking a credit card payment...however overall there are many vendors that have been around for a long time. This is no different to the DNM, you have some long time running vendors, the occasional exit scam and the occasional disappearance..

5

I'm not sure what your point is here, "us older people" really? The condescension and ego trip is just unreal here, so you think because you chose to use a specific market over the other that makes you older or whatever the point is you're trying to make. The rest if this paragraph seems unrelated to benefits/disadvantages of either market.

Can I ask how you've learnt that clearnet isn't safe? So far you've failed to convince me beyond the risks that already exist with the DNM

Overall, both areas have their advantages and disadvantages: -Buying from DNM is illegal,buying from the clearnet isn't.

-Buying from DNM you're less likely to get caught.

-Buying from DNM you have escrow, however buying from clearnet you have a tracking number and can track the product yourself, and every vendor I've ever dealt with has offered a free re ship if the package isn't delivered, so escrow isn't needed.

-DNM specific market places: this is the biggest down side to me for using DNM, the markets are so unreliable. Agora goes up and down a lot and requires an invite, however overall it's not too bad. Evolution exit scammed, loads of issues with nucleus recently, Silk Road busted, the sheep market place or whatever it was called is gone...the long list of DNM market places that have either exit scammed or been busted far outweighs anything clearnet..

-DNM is safer legally if you know what you're doing, however requires decent knowledge of opsec

-Clear net is way more user friendly

-DNM you can but illicit substances too

Overall there are advantages and disadvantages to both, however if you're solely looking for legal RCs, the clear net is my personal preference, however this is ultimately the users choice. There are thousands of people that safely use clear net RC vendors in the same way there are thousands of people that safely use DNM vendors, the blatant hate in your OP is certainly not needed..


[3 Points] J603:

1 If a research chemical is legal, it's legal. I've ordered clearnet RCs that were clearly labeled with no issues. I've bought 25c, 25i, MXE, M1, E1 and DPT when they were legal and it was fine every time. I always got it from China and the packages were labeled with what they were, since I think they had to be declared to customs.

2 Once again, if it's legal it's legal... I don't see your point.

3 Wrong, wrong, wrong. I have actually been caught with MXE and got in no trouble. I just kept telling the cop it was a legal rc. He didn't know what it was so I made him google it, he was absolutely furious when I got to take it home. I assured him that it was not for human consumption of course ;)

4 For every dnm vendor that stays here for years 100 more exit scam or get taken down. The darknet sites themselves are all destined to die, Agora is the last of the "old" sites. SR, BMR, Armory, Atlantis, Evo... all went down one way or another. Meanwhile I have bought from the same RC vendors in China for more than 4 years. They always follow the laws, and these guys genuinely care about their customers. When they learned of people dying from 25c, they removed from their site years before it was made illegal.

5 MXE and 3-meo-pcp have been the most therapeutic drugs in my opinion, and they are both filthy RC's. I have always treated psychs such as LSD and mushrooms and especially weed as simple drugs, but dissociatives are almost spiritual for me.

For your last question, no the dnm is not safer in any way. How is breaking the law safer than following it? And if you do your research on clearnet sites they are generally more trustworthy than vendors, which have absolutely 0 accountability if they scam.


[2 Points] za4h:

10 years ago clearnet vendors were pretty legit. They've been getting sketchier ever since.

I simply wouldn't trust a clearnet vendor today. People I know have received either bunk or incorrect product too often. Overseas seems a little better, but then there's customs to worry about.

If I were interested in finding a trustworthy source of a specific chemical, I'd only use the darknet.


[1 Points] KimJongUntouchable:

Operation Synthetic Web: Defendants arrested in December 2014 for selling substances that were scheduled by the DEA in March of 2011 and by the Florida Attorney General in October of 2013.
Operation Log Jam: Same deal, but I found a DEA press release [2] saying that they intended to prosecute under the CSAEA. I also found the indictment[1] which says that they were charged because they sold with the intent of human consumption.

[1] http://www.dea.gov/divisions/mia/2014/mia051414.pdf
[2] http://www.dea.gov/pubs/pressrel/pr072612.html


[1 Points] throwaxanny:

Darknet cause I don't know any good clearnet vendors.


[1 Points] OptionalAccountant:

WAIT WHAT!!! IM GONNA CONTINUE READING, BUT DO YOU HAVE A SOURCE FOR THOSE STATISTICS UNDER NUMBER 2??? Because that would be insane and more people would need to know about this.

EDIT: Im an idiot i see your source now. No way im reading through that coarse book to find it though.


[1 Points] LoudRooster:

As long as it's sold for research purposes and not for human consumption than it is legal and you can buy it. It doesn't matter if it's clearnet or darknet


[0 Points] OptionalAccountant:

Man, I am still in contact with a vendor I used back before DNM existed. Back then of course i got packs from china. Nowadays they have reshippers in USA.