In case your order is seized, what does LE need to have to prove you ordered something ?

I was just wondering about what LE needs to charge you.

What if you have been on the darknetmarkets/drugs subreddits without a vpn one or twice ? What if they find weed or drug pharaephilia (meth pipes, weed bongs) searching your house ? Can they search what sites have been visited on your wifi in the past month ? Or do they do that using you computer/phone IP ?(I'm a noob at computers, sorry if it doesn't make sense) What if they found out you downloaded Tor ?

I live in Switzerland so LE has enough time to go after non seller drug users (a friend of mine got his house searched for 5 tabs of LSD)

Thanks and have a great day !


Comments


[1 Points] None:

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[1 Points] MrCrappy57:

In USA there is no real way to say "what they need." What they NEED is whatever a jury of your peers will believe is enough evidence against you. That's the bottom line.


[1 Points] wormol:

You're not gonna get much relevant answers, since the majority of users here are Americans. Now I'm just an outside observer, but if 5% of what I read on this site and other drugwebz is real, most US LE will go through a shitton of effort to get even the smallest shittiest green nug.

Anyway with that being said, I think this would also apply in Switzerland, but I suspect Swiss people have even more rights than we do (hello from Norway). AFAIK cannabis buds are legal for decorative purposes over there?

If you have been on the DNM's without a VPN, they can prove you've used Tor. Now, depending on their effort and skill and your overall OPSEC (7 DNM vendors busted in tiny Norway this month, LE is very proud), there are methods they can use to determine your real IP address and that your IP address visits DNM's. IP address means they have your address and info of the guy paying the ISPs bill, which is probably you or your dad. If you're running a big op and they have your address, what do you think will happen? Yeah.

However don't trust your VPN! Unless you run the actual VPN server you have very limited knowledge of the VPN providers OPSEC, other than reputation and marketing statements. If your VPN is compromised by LE then that is an outstanding attack vector for them to track your Tor traffic. Oh yeah and the "provider in obscure country" is also a fallacy, there are very good (for LE) international agreements on cooperation on these matters.

Now, If you're in Switzerland and the police have a warrant on you then you've fucked up something badly (like getting caught with 5 tabs of LSD), but they can only prove you have paraphernalia, nothing else. If they already have a warrant they will take your computers, phones et cetera. If you use TAILS & good OPSEC for all your shady business, and TAILS is not logged on while they raid you, they can't really do much though. Oh and since you're using Tor, again, unless some sophisticated attack vector is being employed they can't really get any data other than "this guy uses Tor".

Tor is legal.

Now let's assume you made some fuckups. LE can prove you've used Tor. LE can prove you've bought bitcoins (let's say you used your CC). LE can prove you're visiting DNM's (let's just assume this).

Now, they have proved that you buy bitcoins and you visit DNM's. They cannot prove that you've bought something though, but they might track your mail closely (depending on LE crazyness level), and if they intercept a drug shipment headed for you, plausible deniability is no longer an option for you. You need to prove your innocence. Which you probably can't.

Some defenses that fail: "It was my roommate!" They've proved you used your CC. You roommate checks out. You get raped in jail for your shittyness.

"My CC was stolen and my WiFi is completely open to anyone!" Prosecutor: "So explain how this CC has been used regularly with bitcoin purchases and other purchases yet you've not said anything to your CC company about suspicious activity?"

"I am a BTC trader and I visit those sites out of curiosity, just unlikely circumstances!!" Prosecutor: "Explain how the your BTC appears to go to SuperDrugMarket escrow wallet?"

OK So for the good stuff - How not to get caught (this is not 100% either)

Public WiFi with no nearby cameras - they cannot determine who you are using an IP address

No credit card bitcoin buying - personally I'd pay for an online VISA gift card in cash, then use the gift card to purchase BTC

Phantom mail recipient - I don't know Swiss rules, but in Norway you can write a name on a postbox, hang it anywhere and have mail delivered to it reliably. This apparently doesn't work in the USA, but try it out (a cheap postbox is ~10€, worth a try).

Summary / TL;DR: There's no definitive answer, but your likelihood of getting away diminishes the more proof they get. If they have proof of owned wallets and proof of funds transferred from those wallets to known vendors / DNM escrow wallets, you're fucked. If they can only prove you've bought bitcoin and use Tor you still have plausible deniability, if they can prove one more thing though you're likely fucked


[-1 Points] None:

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