DarknetMarkets Deserves "Trust" Status, to stop us from being shut down. Then we can nominate a safe pair of hands, transparently, after Astrid and Lobali

Do you remember in April, when we were locked out of this sub while 5 new admins did things inside? We stood on the street like fire alarm practice at work.

DNM sub feels like a public building. A debating society, a library, and a court.

We forget that all subreddits are privately owned, which is why I was so keen to find out how Lobali came to own it instead of Astrid, how she paid for it, and why?

If the sub's owner used it to defraud a charity collection, it undoubtably breaks Reddits "Terms of Service" and will be closed down.

I think its too important to close down. Unfortunately, a thing always happens on US-dominated drug-related forums just before they fail, where they splinter into two opposing groups who troll the shit out of each other. The mods sowed the wind, and are now reaping the whirlwind because it created an environment like pre-war Germany where Bruce's right wing "fight club" disenfranchised counter trolls can flourish.

That's why its turned to shit, and will soon be gone. 13btc is obsessing us more than the two marketplace exit scams that are going on, because we are transfixed by the fight between a psychopath and a sociopath for influence of a subreddit that may not exist next week.

We need to convince Reddit not to just delete or archive us, but nominate a viable owner to look after the keys.

(this isn't a nomination for myself. I rule myself out right now and forever because it would be a recipe for disaster. You know what I'm like. Plus, I'm a commercial interest).

I think, like a charity, we need a board of trustees. People we trust from the darknet world, to somehow have transparent and joint responsibility for the sub's ownership, and moderator selection / removal.

That's as far as I've thought it through.


Comments


[17 Points] None:

Reddit's admins aren't going to step in. The site doesn't work like that. Mods are the boss of their subs. Them's the breaks. On the other hand, even if some mods get banned for violating the rule against profiting from a sub, that wouldn't mean the sub itself would be banned. The mod of /r/frisson got caught selling his sub and the two offending parties were banned, but the sub itself was left intact. The thing that gets subs banned is harrasing other users. For example, if the mods of the sub put up a sticky with a list of users from an anti-drug sub with a "sick em boys" message, the whole sub might get the hammer, but otherwise the sub should be safe.

P.S. The rulers of the sub are "mods" not "admins": admins are payed by Reddit, mods are not.


[7 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

I just want to make it clear that I don't know lobali to be a bad person. I don't want to pre-empt any investigation into her guilt or innocence, or whether any actions were well-intended or not.

Its approaching the season of forgiveness and reconciliation. Lobali owns this sub, she could just make it private or sell it, and in spite of everything it could end up in many, many worse hands than hers. In particular, those just below her.

If this sub can be saved but it has to change hands, don't assume that it will end up with somebody better. Usually, it ends up with the person who wants it more and has the most to gain.

Control of a forum Discussing and influencing Darknet drug sales is a tangible asset, like a painting. Does it belong to a wealthy individual or to a public gallery?


[5 Points] coffeencreme:

I agree with you. Every fucking time there's a new head mod there's always an issue - although this one is far and away the worst thing that's happened here mod wise.

The issue is obsessing us because we as a community tried to do a great thing - raise money for one of our own to make his life more bearable. Bruce had a great idea with it, Oz Freelancer was a go between then....Lobali's dog ate the BTC and she shit all over it.

I would nominate /u/theeconomist1. He's fair, active in the community, gives good advice and behaves as such that i think he could be trusted with the keys. He's also not a school kid, he's a veteran who has been around for a long time.


[7 Points] Theeconomist1:

Just for clarification Bc this is coming up. After astrid I was the head mod. Astrid gave the sub back to me in the middle of the night. I was head mod very short. A week or so. I willingly stepped aside when Gwern turned it down and lobs came to me and asked to be head sub. At the time she was prob the most senior one who wanted the job. I could have kept it but didn't. I didn't feel right just holding it unless I had good community backing. Lobs did at the time. So I passed it on.


[2 Points] RaveTurkey01:

I'm gonna start my own sub... With blackjack. And hookers.


[6 Points] DareToHope:

The amount of FUD in here is disturbing. Nobody "bought" the position. After astridgate im fairly certain she gave econ the sub who then either offered gwern (who declined) and then lobs was the next reasonable option because at the time she was considered to be in "good" standing with the community.

@ BBMC we are called mods not admins. The admins are people payed by reddit, we aren't paid by anyone for anything we do.

The sub won't be canned.

Like I've been saying for the past 2-3 days. There is a State of the Sub type post that has been talked about and is being drafted/revised currently. It should be up in a day or two, it covers the issues currently as well as some other things.

As far as who will become the new "head" mod. That is currently being discussed in the mod sub. After its done if people want the chat logs I'm sure it wont be an issue for me to post them (if you really care that much)


[2 Points] octomarvel:

SLOW MOTHERFUCKING CLAP

You know, a lot of people give you a hard time redhook (myself included) but you're alright by me. All your past speculation n assumptions aside, this post shows that your heart is in the right place. You actually give a fuck about this subreddit n this thread you've made is proof.

Also, the two private subreddits are not at war. If they were, I don't know how I would be able to be a member of both. I think of one as a hospital and the other as a mental asylum. They're both dealing with the problems that come from here, just differently.

I asked in another post if it was possible for a private sub to exist without a headmod in order to circumvent a corrupted headmod burning this place to the ground. I don't think this is possible because if normal mods are given the same equal powers, it actually makes the chances of a corrupt key owner higher. Finding a balance between a head mod that's informed about this sub and doesn't really give a fuck about it is probably our most ideal and equally impossible to find bet. For the interim though, until a better system is thought up, I think theeconomist will do a swell job.

Lastly, you bring up a very fucking overlooked but most important fact. In the grand scheme of what has happened in the last week or two, the disappearance of both abraxas and middle earth should definitely be more looked into than this book fund scandal. Don't get me wrong, the book fund n lobali thing definitely needed to be addressed and rectified, mainly for ssbd n not for this sub, but the level of complacency people have with market exit scams is somewhat alarming. Perhaps people were more concerned about the lobali scandal because it was something we kinda had the power to change as a community. Market exit scams are like a mass rape that everyone usually wants to suppress any memory of I guess.

Anyway, keep on keepin' on dude. I hope to see more of this side of you....props.

=)

PS - I actually think that maybe the mod position should be forced upon nominated people that DONT want it. I mean, who would actively WANT to have the responsibility of keeping 250,000 drug ordering tech geeks within reddits TOS?


[4 Points] Devoid_:

I couldn't agree more. This sub has grown into a cesspool of bullshit all because of mod behavior and bs. I know you guys are trying but this shit isn't highschool. I know you guys say your not corrupt but I can think of many occasions where I questioned that. I know Astrid tried to doxx everyone but ever since than everything has gone to shit. The mods keep saying trust no one well that's bulls hit it would be nice to have faith in the leadership. Half the mods do nothing except piss users off. This sub belongs to more than the mod team. We need some way of instituting new leaders or move the community. I feel the dnfc is a nessecary evil to counter the tyranny of the leadership. The mods for some reason think that the adminis won't care about this but maybe they haven't found out yet ;)


[3 Points] lobali-is-kimble:

Which is which? I imagine you think Economist is the sociopath and Bruce the psychopath?

No matter. You lot won't be able to pry this place from her grasp. Lobali is Kimble.


[2 Points] Finga_lickin:

How is Lobali still a moderator here? I mean, I understand as the head mod she has to sign on and de-mod herself as well as select a new head Mod but you would think it would seem like an urgent thing to do when a ton of internet anons are tweaking screaming about how she should leave.

Also, this whole, the head mod has to de-mod themselves seems like a huge flaw in the system. Who coded that into reddit? Hitler? Stalin?

Regardless you're right we need a trusted board of people to give the keys to the kingdom to. The hardest part is no one can predict how a large sum of money from an independent source (a market, vendor, scammer etc. cough cough AlphaBay) could corrupt one of those board members.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


[2 Points] aboutthednm:

And your point?


[2 Points] rogueXleader:

I will say, though, BBMC...this is one of your finest contributions to the sub


[1 Points] MLP_is_my_OPSEC:

We forget that all subreddits are privately owned, which is why I was so keen to find out how Lobali came to own it instead of Astrid, how she paid for it, and why?

I wasn't a moderator during this nor was I privy to the discussion between them, but I think it was agreed upon between them that /u/-lobali would take over as head mod. As to why I can only speculate, but I'm assuming at the time she was the most trusted/senior user.

I think, like a charity, we need a board of trustees. People we trust from the darknet world, to somehow have transparent and joint responsibility for the sub's ownership, and moderator selection / removal.

If this were possible, which it might be, you'd still have the issue of the top moderator spot being able to do pretty much whatever they please, whenever they want. A possible solution has been talked about many times yet not one that is viable has come up.


[1 Points] None:

[deleted]


[1 Points] alfabi:

If the sub's owner used it to defraud a charity collection, it undoubtably breaks Reddits "Terms of Service" and will be closed down.

Bbmc, False assumption what in turn render the rest of op poinless. Mod team will choose head mod, that their task. I agree lobali need to step down and that mod team will listen and discuss any reasonable suggestion


[1 Points] rogueXleader:

Not hugely influential on this sub, but I'm not afraid to ruffle some feathers (ask AlphaBay) to get the truth out and do right by all members of the community. I'd be honored to ever be selected to have some power to help this community thrive, rather than having it come crashing down. That being said, we do have some great mods and it's important to remember they technically don't get paid (but hookups are likely as you'd be a fool to rip off a mod and I can't blame them for taking a good deal). They, however, are not stealing from the community or a charity. I think /u/Theeconomist1 has been great in all my interactions with him


[0 Points] Tweek-er_Timmy:

good points man...but who do we trust with this?


[0 Points] powerman15:

News flash: everyone will scam given the right amount. You also have to consider that this forums population is composed of dealers, addicts, and carders.

In lobs instance, his price was $1000. If he truly gave a Damn about this community he would step down. Not doing so speaks volumes. I believe it's at least worth creating a petition to call for her resignation.