[GeneralQuestions] Publicity, do we really want it?

I've been an active member of the DNM community since before the shutdown of SR1 (yes, this is my burner account), and along the way, have helped introduce many people into the wonderful world of the digital drug trade. I've recently stopped this, and took a step back.

Making up only small percentage of the Internet community, working in the clandestine digital underground, isn't publicity the last thing we want? Why is praise given for possible documentaries that could spark curiosity (of the cat-killing variety) and make our operations known to the rest of the world?

I believe it's important to restrain this from becoming a globally super-well-known thing, no matter how much good it can do for every drug user out there.

As somebody who makes money on the side through DNMs, I can imagine that if there were more customers that prices would skyrocket and make it impossibly for me to make much money off of small orders at all. What happens when things become more legal and easily purchased? Then we have no market.

Tl;dr: (Title)


Comments


[35 Points] JohnJonahJamersonJr:

Hell yea we want publicity. The more people that see this, the more people that use it, the beauty that exists in any free-market system like the US economy (not exactly like, of course since the US economy isn't exactly free, it's just freer) or trade site like craigslist, ebay, etc. It will be just like torrents and wikileaks. The very nature of P2P means it cannot be stopped.

And as more people use DNMs, more people will see the fallacy that is government. That you can somehow trust the same people who think it's moral to illegalize drugs and tax tobacco, to run healthcare, your police, your military, your streets.

No one can stop P2P systems like the DNMs, and the government is already well aware of it. Of course, the beauty of government is that not a single person in the US would say "Yes, I approve of $10 billion of taxpayer money to go towards combating the DNM', but the government will make that decision for you in a heartbeat.

Bring on all the publicity. Government can play whack a mole all it wants, but ultimately consumers, whom are most important, will win out as more vendors and admins join and offer a more competitive market for the larger, more attractive customer base with whom to do business with.


[9 Points] throwawaywtokn:

Generally I think more publicity is good. How often have we heard that DNMs have gentrified the drug trade. Anyone with a brain knows the war on drugs is an utter failure but it still keeps bringing in money to militarized cops so no one wants to get in the way.

The DNMs, as we know, are solutions to this. If we can show drops in drug-related violence due to the violence-free nature of DNMs, we are winning a battle. BTW, if legalizing drugs is something you don't want to happen because it might hurt your bottom line, I think you're kind of an asshole, but also wrong. How bad off are pot growers in Colorado right now?

And if you're worried about prices skyrocketing because of demand, all that will do is increase supply. You'll have more and more college kids realizing they can pay their way through college by vending a bit (alright, I admit... college kids vending is a really bad example, but the point stands).

We already see with the DNMs that there is a demand and it's getting fuckin' filled with supply. Some things are cheaper on DNMs than the streets (MDMA) some more expensive (pharms). They're still both being readily sold. With decriminalization of cannabis happening at breakneck speed, this is a GOOD time to point out the hypocrisy of so many of the other evil drugs. Check out TripWS's links to studies on how a single trip on shrooms changed peoples' lives dramatically for the better for YEARS after the studies were conducted.

If we cower away as a bad little nefarious thing, making it look like only hoodlums and internet thugs use these sites... that doesn't help with the image thing. And as was also noted, there isn't much we can do to stop more and more mainstream exposure. Let's do what we can to paint ourselves in as positive a light as we can, hard as that might be. Economics be damned. They'll work out. People like drugs... If there's anything that sells itself... I'm not worried about the LONG term economics.

The one thing I worry a lot about, you did bring up is new laws. When the fuckers start losing the income they've been getting from the war on drugs, they won't go down peacefully. I see stricter laws being passed at customs, and further erosion of our right to privacy with the USPS. I just hope there is enough POSITIVE exposure to the DNMs and enough people figuring out ways to bypass those new laws keeps the endeavor thriving and yes, growing.


[10 Points] samwhiskey:

No


[6 Points] throeaway88888888:

Im looking forward to telling my grandkids i bought drugs off the fucking internet.


[3 Points] throwahooawayyfoe:

well, from my point of thinking... people are going to find out about it sooner or later anyway. so it's better to get some good publicity going now rather than wait for the shitstorm when a negative spin comes along.


[3 Points] DNMd:

Too late anyways lol


[3 Points] None:

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[3 Points] entactoBob:

Civil disobedience is fundamentally meant to be public.


[2 Points] DNMThrowawayyfoe:

I honestly really don't think there's any stopping it. Sure it sucks but it's an incredible thing we got going here. You cannot stop word from spreading, and this is just how long it took to get to this point. And it'll go further and further I have no doubt.


[2 Points] Sparkler11:

I personally don't liek the idea of more publicity. I feel like every 16 year old with a MacBook will start the invasion. I think this system is fantastic, but I worry about it being highly publicized and more kiddos getting their hands on things that they have no idea how to handle. I am not naive and know that there are buyers who are underage, but I don't like the idea of say Agora becoming a household name. Of course LE knows about it and fights it in their own ways but only as much as they see it as a problem. They could really pick up the pace if it became mainstream.


[2 Points] None:

from a safety perspective you want the right people doing business with you. It only takes one Joe Fucknugget that buys from you and who doesn't know how to protect himself and you may find yourself on the receiving end of an investigation.

From a political perspective, you want the world to know just how retarded the war on drugs is. Untold dollars and lives spent, and yet buying MDMA from a darknet site is only slightly harder than buying a book of Amazon. Money and lives well spent, huh? The more word gets out that these policies are failing, the more chance we have of being able force the government into listening.


[1 Points] DNMShopper:

"What happens when things become more legal and easily purchased? Then we have no market."

That's exactly what the government wants to do. That's also a major reason why weed is becoming legal, less money in black markets & more money for the government which is totally cool with me. Im just a dude who likes to smoke weed... but can't get it locally. Well don't want to, + it's more expensive. I can't imagine how nice it would be being able to go into a despensery around the corner and actually seeing/smelling the product before I buy it. And my god it's going to be nice not having to wait on packages anymore. But I can 300% assure you even with weed becoming legal the DarkNetMarkets will always be here. There's way to much money to be made for it not to be.


[1 Points] valuum:

At this point law enforcement is already aware of all the markets. Publicity probably just brings more customers.


[1 Points] JonJulien:

Publicity == bad, especially when the markets are down half the time anyway. Gradual scaling is key. Otherwise, shit hits the fan. DNMs won't be able to handle traffic. Netsec-illiterates will venture where they shouldn't, leading to trouble. All sort of things will go wrong.


[1 Points] acid_guru:

Honestly, in my opinion publicity of the darknet markets is a good thing. As more and more markets get shut down, stronger markets will continue to pop up and the entire ecosystem will continue to get stronger and more resistant to attacks. People have already also mentioned that with increased publicity == more buyers and there will innevitably be more vendors as a result. With that said, I would not personally talk about them to people I know irl, as that is bad OPSEC.


[1 Points] shortbusoneohone:

Publicity could potentially compromise the existence of the markets. This is dangerous on account of some of least intelligent people that I have every met that also happen to be over their heads in substance abuse. If they were to get a hold of a tool like this, they would without a doubt, fuck things up. I feel that letting the low hanging fruit get taken out by LE (without their knowledge of DNMs) frees up DNMs from future cogs and glitches in the system. Shitty OPSEC has the potential to compromise everyone involved in this.

In my mind, the only advantage of publicity for DNMs, would be the excess traffic hitting TOR. All of these identical TBB set-ups would waste a ton of time for anyone trying to hinder the market, listen in, or otherwise interfere.


[1 Points] TonyBologna69:

Sounds like you don't want it public for own monetary reasons.


[1 Points] dnmthrowaway0808:

The only problem that I've noticed with the rise in DNM publicity is that the government is taking it more seriously. I agree with what /u/JohnJonahJamersonJr said about the government "playing whack a mole" but at the same time, they're cracking down harder than before and are finally beginning to understand DNM's and what's really going on.

Before the rise in popularity of DNM's and SR1/2 the government wasn't focusing on domestic drug-related stuff in the mail and didn't see it as a problem. A number of low-key crackdowns have been happening that aren't really getting reported on. In the area that I'm from the USPS OIG has confiscated approx 100lbs of just MJ in recent months from what I've been told. (This is mostly due to poor stealth)

This aside, proper stealth is a really solid counter to any of this.

I haven't really had a chance to ask in depth questions about the specifics of how things are getting caught in the mail/how much they really care, so I can't answer any specific questions about that yet. From what I know, the government is more concerned with insurance fraud, financial fraud, contract fraud, and interal (employee) crime.


[1 Points] None:

I think we want publicity in moderation. If it slowly gets popular more customers and possible new vendors come to weaker markets over time cough cough MXE cough with better deals or service. But if too many know, people of lesser street smarts I.e lack of knowledge in computer security, stealth, safety and general OPSEC may pollute the community which will take away the added security that helps the dnm thrive. It's why we migrated to evo and Agora after SR2, not SR3.


[1 Points] ispynlie:

What we are seeing now is one sided publicity (e.g bad) because LE and the media follow a certain narrative. Something to counter this, coming from the community, would be good.


[1 Points] Aluxh:

If you know about this sub it's already publicised enough that all our enemies know about it.


[1 Points] None:

Simple. More users =more =more markets. More everything = harder to control. Growth is good


[1 Points] None:

Its the future, you should prepare for it

More and more RL people are talking about them and using them or thinking about using them, some suppliers are getting their stuff over the markets.

It will close the gap in prices between countries. Expensive countries should get cheaper and quality and availability should get higher...


[1 Points] bsevs:

The bigger DNM's get the faster they will evolve and streamline. Its been proven a few times over that LE isn't going to be able to come close to shutting them down entirely. As for when things become legal and easily available? Idk, maybe DNM's will become like Amazon for drugs, 2 day shipping with DNM Prime pls.