Fake Norco or just my tolerance/paranoia?

After receiving a new batch of Watson 853s, I noticed they weren't giving me the same relief, they just made me feel dull and queasy. After switching back to a known good supply the difference was noticeable - felt much better. The new batch looks IDENTICAL and breaks the same, but they don't have that telltale chalky aftertaste that I know and love. They have no taste at all. When followed up with a known good one, I could immediately notice the familiar taste.

Is it possible these pills could be bunk? Has anyone ever run across fake Watsons before? I know Oxys have been home-pressed but never seen evidence that people were doing this with Norcos. I always thought Norcos weren't worth the effort to home-press whereas Oxys are way more expensive so more attractive to fake. How could someone make a home-press of Watsons so perfect looking? Maybe they're just old, but I swear I've had old Norcos that still did the job. This is totally bizarre and I'm freaking out that I may have to toss the whole lot.

Now before anyone asks I will not name and shame until I am convinced this is not just my tolerance or paranoia. I will need to do a blind taste test in the next day or two.

These are supposedly US pharmacy sourced, I steer clear of Indian knock-offs. But the Indian pills are a totally different brand anyway, so they're easy to identify. Unless they're now making fake pills using a Watson press. Is that possible? This is totally bumming me out, can anyone offer any advice?

UPDATE: See pics: https://www.anonimg.com/img/489e54fad3f6ba878426e80c720dfea6.jpg

The pills on the right came directly from the pharmacy, handed to me personally by a licensed pharmacist. The pills on the left are the ones I'm writing about. Can you spot the differences? If you think they're the same, look closer. Remember, the pills on the right will get you high. The pills on the left are like the ones mother gives you... don't do anything at all. I'm lucky that's all they did. For all I know the next home-press will have a fatal dose of fent in it.

One more detail I noticed which could not be photographed. My legit Watsons when split in half are peppered with tiny sparkling crystals. The bogus ones have no such crystals, it's just dull white powder. This isn't really a foolproof test, since there may be another salt they could put in the powder to make it look similar, but it was just one more thing that made these pills stand out from the real ones.


Comments


[5 Points] dandruff138:

Very possible. Norcos have become extremely difficult to get since getting reclassed. I am sure it is tempting for scammers to press and lowdose them or sub in another chem for hydrocodone.

Pill presses are also becoming much easier to manufacture and can easily be attained as they are perfectly legal machines.

If the price of NORCOS stays high or continues to come up I think we will see more and more of this,. Luckily we have communication to fight back the scammers the best we can.


[3 Points] heythere007:

OK, here are my two images. I've enhanced the images so you can clearly see the (very minor) details in imprints. The real one on the bottom, while the "fake" one is on top. Overall the imprint seems larger on the top one, and then N's have a smaller register, as well as a shorter mid-line for the "3". Overall, the imprint is just a little more condensed on the actual ones.

https://www.anonimg.com/img/6e345bb5ba6ccb172b2ef720a3404614.jpg https://www.anonimg.com/img/0708996f72ecdb7dc01fdc7d2ea75a8f.jpg

@whatsgoingonyo - is this in line with what you're seeing? Again the these seem too good to be bootleg presses, but the sheen is correct, overall breakage etc. Have you done any additional "taste tests"?


[3 Points] Theeconomist1:

Found this on ecstasydata.org

http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=3449

Watson 853 that was actually tramadol.


[2 Points] MrCrappy57:

Lots of fakes out there, unfortunately. Seeing this while just randomly surfing opened my eyes. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/pill-mold


[2 Points] theseeker01:

Wasn't there a guy selling fake/weak hydrocodone powder on agora too by the name of cap n crunch or something?


[2 Points] heythere007:

I just got some of these today as well. I wasn't feeling the effects so I came here to do some searching. I have actual Watson 853's from another source that I know are 100% and have spent some time comparing. They do look exactly the same, same sheen, even the same sound when you drop them on a table. I tried the water test and the "real" ones did start to slowly dissolve in water, but the "fakes" dissolved much more quickly. They also lacked that slight bitter taste and were more chalky. The "real" ones in question are also 8-9 months old so I'm not sure if it make a difference. I don't really understand though. Can a pill press be THAT good? Are we just feeling some sort of placebo effect either way? Desperate to know, good a good few and would be a shame to toss if they are indeed real. Let's get to the bottom of this!


[2 Points] None:

DrRx, eh? I got some bunk Roxies.


[2 Points] heythere007:

I'll upload my images of real vs "fake" tomorrow and compare notes. What About the dissolve in water test or the sound drop test? Let us know how further testing goes. IMO they are way to good to be fakes, unless they had access to crazy equipment? Would sleep better at night what they'll is going on with these!


[2 Points] Theeconomist1:

I honestly think this thread exemplifies the harm reduction philosophy of this sub. If OP never made this post, he ( and all of the others who received bad product and contributed to the thread) probably wouldn't have said anything to DrRx, b/c let's face it, we all develop a tolerance and sometimes we don't know if we don't feel something b/c of the tolerance or if something is wrong with the pill. It not only helped you guys but I think it will help DrRx too. If it turns out his supplier is the problem, he should be made aware of it. If people don't complain, he isn't given the opportunity to make things right, and I'd guess that people would just go to another vendor and he'd lose business.

Its also helped me and probably everyone else who orders prescription pills b/c its a big wake up call that these fakes are getting good and we need to all be more vigilant when we order off the DNMs. I had worried about this potential a long time ago but never had an instance to point to so I figured I was being paranoid (which I am anyway). I guess I rested comfortable just ordering US pills and obvioulsy this is a shaky assumption. I think before Norco was rescheduled, it wasn't worth it to do a good counterfeit b/c the counterfeiters had Oxy and other Schedule II drugs to fake instead that were more expensive. Now that Norco is pricey as hell, its obviously become worth it to make a damn good replica.

This is just my speculation, but I have a feeling that these fakes weren't made in grandma's basement. To get things this right I believe some element of organized crime is involved. While the dies may not be expensive, its still difficult I assume to get everything right - the binders, fillers, color, consistency, density all right. I assume it takes some investment. So what sucks if I'm right is that we might be seeing more and more of these.

Thanks everyone bc this is a big wakeup call for me. Next time the shit they put in it might be something far worse and might hurt someone.


[1 Points] None:

[deleted]


[1 Points] Theeconomist1:

This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I plan on replying a bit later. One thing to keep in mind is that old or improperly stored norcos will lose their potency. Norco is actually quite stable though if stored properly - in a cool dry place. But if not and its old it'll be less potent. I've found legit norcos around the house that were years old and I could feel them but definitely much weaker. And they were decently stored.

To me the taste is a giveaway. If there is no taste that is odd. Now binders and fillers will impact taste but norco has that odd bitter taste. Every brand of generic has this taste to a degree.

I agree as price goes up fakes will abound. It's still hard to get it exactly right. Now necessarily the lettering but the density as well. But it's not impossible and with high prices the good fakes will come from organized criminal labs. Not some dude home pressing like u see with Xanax.

Put it this way. We know gold is faked. There were fake gold bars floating around a year or two ago. Ounce for ounce Vicodin on the streets is more valuable than gold. An ounce of gold is about $1300 on the high end. Vicodin sells low end about $1 per milligram. If my math is right an ounce of Vicodin is about $28,000 once pressed into a U.S. pharmaceutical pill

Edit: by street price I actually mean DNM price. Was using the term to mean illicit rather than actual streets. I know street price is probably a bit cheaper if u can find it.


[1 Points] nsgiad:

If you noticed known good ones work then I'd say you got some weak/bunk/other drug ones online.


[1 Points] agorathrow80:

To back up others i had to go to 9 pharms, just to get my reg script of 5s, its crazy, it was only 60.


[1 Points] Theeconomist1:

My legit Watsons when split in half are peppered with tiny sparkling crystals. The bogus ones have no such crystals

Yes! I forgot to mention that but every Norco pill I've had - whether it be Watson or Qualitest, when split will have those shiny little crystals. Good eye on that!

On the pill photos, you can tell a difference. The ones on the right are "sharper" than on the left. Its like the material used on the pill couldn't keep together on some of the letters, especially the "W" and the "N" - this is probably b/c there is just a tiny, tiny space in between the lines and the ones of the left crumbled. The N and W are very well defined on the right side. At first, I wanted to dismiss as just "wear" on the pill, BUT the odd thing is this happens with every single pill on the left. It wasn't a one-off that got chipped. Also, the "S" is wrong. On the ones on the right, the S is "top heavy" - the loop on top appears slightly bigger than the loop at bottom of S. On the pill on the left, its the opposite - its "bottom heavy."

The ones on the left could definitely pass upon just a cursory look. B/c you had the benefit of having a known legit pill, the differences are obvious. The material of the pill definitely isn't quite strong enough to maintain a sharp font. The "N" on every single pill on left is essentially broken. There is no raised parts on the N. I don't believe that could come solely from chipping from handling, esp since every pill is same. Its more like the material couldn't hold itself together in those tiny spaces.


[0 Points] opiatethrowy:

What's more impressive is you're so rich you can afford to buy norcos off the darknet!! Hell you can buy enough to get fucked up too?! Holy shit. You must make millions of dollars. The best bang for your buck when it comes to opiates on the darknet is heroin. But that's quite the leap.