OpSec Analysis: There is nothing wrong with having to sign for a drug pack.

As a vendor who requires signature on his packs to be delivered (no customisation option on my shipping channel, default for international is signature), one of the most common source of concern I see from my customers is the requirement to sign for the packs. I personally believe that the very action of signing or not doesn't change a thing beside the fact that the no-signature version has the advantage of you not being bothered by your mailman and you can just pick it up from your mailbox at your convenience. The no-signature version also comes with some risk. Your pack could be stolen (possibly even by LE in the course of an investigation) or the mailman could have more of an incentive to steal it.

Lets see it from a practical point of view. If LE wants to perform a controlled delivery, they don't need a signature. They'll just watch you until they see you pick up the pack and then perform the raid anyway. The common, correct argument in favor of not having to sign for drug packs is that if you are a law abiding citizen who hasn't ordered any drugs online, and you're getting a pack containing drugs but that you don't need to sign for, you can always plea that you never ordered it and you didn't expect a pack and it was just dropped in your mailbox. Right? Well those arguments also stand if you're asked to sign for a pack. Let me explain: if you are a law abiding citizen and your mailman rings at your door telling you he has a pack for you and you need to sign, 99% of law abiding citizens would just sign and pick up the pack, regardless if they expected a pack or not. It could be your bank sending you thick documents, it could be a gift from your employer, it could be fucking anything. The perfect irony is that if you deny the pack on the very basis that you "haven't ordered anything" and "don't want to sign for it" then it actually makes you look suspicious. As a law abiding citizen, you don't expect people to send you drugs or bombs so what would be the risk of accepting an unexpected pack, or signing? its not like its a lease agreement... And just out of curiosity, any normal human being is gonna accept the pack. The pack is free, and curiosity is just human nature. In fact, signature is so meaningless both to LE and to the postal system that I've had several of my customers report to me that they didn't need to sign for their pack because their mailman signs the pack reception himself for their customer and dump it into their mailbox. if you're worried about a controlled delivery, you could also just play the game and say a "Oh? A pack for me, really? I did not expect anything. Is it free? Oh, I need to sign. sure, here you go" kind of thing.

Also, its extremely rare that law enforcement performs controlled deliveries. When they do, its because they have other evidence. In january a fuckton of xanax packs from Canada was seized by LE and as far as I know some customers got up to 10 love letters. No raids.

So... Just stop worrying about having to sign for your pack. It actually comes with a few advantages. You can be sure no one will steal it and it makes MY job easier as well.

Was just some late-night analysis. Going to bed now.


Comments


[57 Points] None:

Man this is dumb.... only reason you think it's a good idea is because all of your packs have to be signed for...

The smarter option is don't order from people who you have to sign for their packs, then if you do have to sign for one you know not to...

If le will just deliver it without a CD and pick you up what's the purpose of making people sign for packs that doesn't require it .

Sorry sir but your deniability is better if you never sign for anything.... saying you didn't know any drugs were coming works better if you don't sign for them, just a fact of life... If your theory were true they wouldn't do CDs the way they do constantly...they'd just deliver and raid


[25 Points] UndeadMarine55:

Is very funny. People don't understand the concept of identities.

Bob is a naive guy who works at the local CVS. He buys from Amazon and other random places on the internet. Occasionally Amazon says he must sign for a normal package. Bob is a normal guy, he does not engage in drug trade. The mailman to bob does his job properly. Everyone around bob does things properly actually, I mean bob does his job, everyone does theirs. So bob signs for anything that comes to his door because bob is good guy who has no reason to suspect problems.

Now Chrys(tal). Chris is a bit paranoid. Chris buys drugs off the dark net. Chris knows his rights. Chris has shit all over his house. Chris posts on reddit. Chris fucking knows his rights yo and he don't talk to police or does he sign for packs. Chris shoots out beady eyes and says "why you making me sign bro": Chris is on drugs. Chris gets a controlled delivery and doesn't say anything because reddit say so. Chris goes to jail.

Bob signs for something. Bob says wierd hum de bum bum. Bob gets a controlled delivery. Police find nothing at his house. Bob says wierd that package had drugs. Idk man I don't do those. Bob house is clean, and bob works regular job. Bob says sorry officer I have no idea, maybe it's one of those no goods on my neighborhood.

Chris says fuck you I didn't sign.

Bob says shit officer I'm a law abiding normal citizen.

You idiots, you know who goes free? You realize that most of you who post here all utter noobs who suck? Bob goes free, Chris goes to jail. You people are stupid. Opsec fails, ideal idiots.


[9 Points] BelizeTourismOffice:

TL;DR: You will be fucked regardless if LE wants to.


[8 Points] omgitsfletch:

Vendor has only one shipping option that requires signatures

Vendor has trouble doing sales because no one wants to sign

Vendor is here to tell you why there's NO big deal behind signing your signature, they swear

The end.


[4 Points] None:

[deleted]


[4 Points] None:

So do you have any source for this or you just fudding it up? I'd be curious to see if you have are court cases where something like this has been detailed or otherwise just potentially fucking up buyers with no real knowledge of it while patting yourself on the back claiming FUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!


[4 Points] None:

Man this is dumb.... only reason you think it's a good idea is because all of your packs have to be signed for...

The smarter option is don't order from people who you have to sign for their packs, then if you do have to sign for one you know not to...

If le will just deliver it without a CD and pick you up what's the purpose of making people sign for packs that doesn't require it .

Sorry sir but your deniability is better if you never sign for anything.... saying you didn't know any drugs were coming works better if you don't sign for them, just a fact of life... If your theory were true they wouldn't do CDs the way they do constantly...they'd just deliver and raid


[2 Points] fa-yeerrr:

Don't you think in these times of busts are a little different than what it was months ago before the fall of AB and Hansa?

Maybe for now it would be better for everyone to at least lay low for a few months.


[2 Points] TILYouLoveDrugs:

If the parcel parcel doesn't require signature but you are asked to sign, best advice is to deny any knowledge of it and tell the post worker to fuck off.

The only benefit I see in signing, is only on behalf of the vendor. This way, his pack doesn't end up in the postal system, therefore, he couldn't care less if maybe his OpSec was poor and this lead to LE profiling the packs. If you don't sign, then the heat is on the vendor only.

For small time buyers, it doesn't really matter, they don't face charges of distribution so in most cases that means some anxiety and a fine. But for those that are deep in the business, this could mean suicide(Check AB's moderator).

I think that in FentMaster's case, LE actually intercepted a pack from China and had him sign for it(besides the other stupidities he's done) and this basically added another charge without LE having to struggle to prove it in court.

So yeah, better not to encourage this thing with beautiful stories.


[2 Points] Grineflip:

I once got busted for a package I had smoked over a year earlier, when a vendor with my data (and everybody else's) stored on a usb stick got busted. Amongst the evidence used in court was the dhl tracking record. No contraband was ever found or used as evidence against me. This probably wouldn't have happened if the vendor wasn't dumb enough to do unencrypted bookkeeping on a usb drive. My point is, I don't want all my packages to be tracked and recorded forever so shit can come up a year later.


[2 Points] MotherOfMeatballs:

This guy clueless yo!


[2 Points] hitmewiththem4mg:

Is this a fucking joke? Thats why I'd never buy your shit bars. Your aethstedics suck and your more exspensive than a few US domestic vendors with nicer bars.


[2 Points] C_Lana_Zepamo:

I'll second this.

Because I have ordered from ya (sorry bout leaving it in escrow over the harvesting of the markets!). But shit, this got here DURING the time LEO was most active, during his first trial run to US.

I won't elaborate more, but I think I have a general idea of your stealth and why/how you choose, and the reasons why. If my hypothesises are true, then it's such a simple, easy way to get them over here.

I'm not gonna be a cock and out his opsec, but after dealing with him, seems legit.

Edit: Anyone who actually received an order from XB wanna comment on it? See a lot of people bitching, but not one who actually received a pack. Lot of nonsense FUD right now.

People think that not signing is like "get out of jail" card, but it doesn't work that way. Otherwise sovereign citizens would be heroes among men.


[1 Points] mejuwi1:

The big disadvantage is that signed packs coming into UK go through customs by default. Im sure its the same in many countries.

Ive seen untracked weed packs from Canada land here in about a a week, while tracked sits in Heathrow for more than that, overall a tracked packs may take upto 2 weeks

There is also that paranoia of looking into tracking from a VPN or public wifi, and getting scared on seeing a strange tracking message

For low cost order I prefer untracked, but for a big order gotta choose tracking just to be sure of it


[1 Points] Imightbenormal:

I was under investigation for over a year. Almost every mail I received from foreign countries got extra scanned, they marked my address with a yellow marker, and even if the packed wasn't an signed package I still recieved a form that said it was. But still the package came into my home mailbox.

After the investigation came to an end, it stopped coming notices first and then the package.

So I guess if it was drugs, they could make me sign for it and state that I had signed for it.

Its hard to explain in English. This was in Norway.


[1 Points] svere21:

This is dumb. As vendor I am sure having signature is good as buyer. I wouldn't even get close b


[1 Points] cheapcab:

I've never signed for a pack but I did sign the redelivery card the carrier left. Was kinda paranoid but wrote instructions to leave pack on porch. I think the carrier was just worried about leaving it in a bad neighborhood.

I wouldn't feel comfortable actually signing for a pack at the door.


[1 Points] UnderGroundDrugRoad:

Something is strange with you OP. I ship from China and no one has ever signed.


[1 Points] kralleo:

your argument is valid if only you order under your own name. which swim doesnt. on the other hand if le is watching the package and you take the package which doesnt belong to you there are no deniability left. you are either a thief or that package is yours under a alias


[1 Points] None:

Beautiful read, thank you! And absolutelly makes sense... I guess OP is not from the US where law and logic often doesnt make any sense. Here in EU it works different way and i understand the main point - refusal to sign would triger all the mailman alarms. Of course its better to go without the signature but if one know what he's doing then signed mail should also be one doable option.


[1 Points] divinesnake:

I see a bunch of posts saying "Never sign! Arrrg" and a bunch saying "Dont get your advice from reddit." And although I am more tempted to believe the latter, the only way we can actually know for sure whether or not refusing to sign helps or hurts one's case is by actually looking at the case law and seeing how it was ruled ¯_(ツ)_/¯


[1 Points] ayyyliftz:

How many people actually got in trouble for signing their pack? i wonder this, mostly if its a small order


[0 Points] RollsRoyceRICKY:

This does make sense...