ELI5: Why is running TOR independent from a VPN more safe?

I struggle to understand how running TOR alone on Tails is safer than running a TOR through a VPN.

My ISP provider can see when I use TOR. My VPN provider can see when I use TOR.

If I run a VPN then my ISP can't see me using TOR (which in my eyes, is preferable). Also, if an onion website is compromised/a node is compromised, surely the extra layer provides a little bit of extra defense? Could anyone help me understand why I am wrong?


Comments


[5 Points] ziz1:

The Tor Project says that using a VPN before Tor may help protect you:

https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorPlusVPN#You-VPNSSH-Tor


[3 Points] bigassnug:

"good luck, I'm behind 7 proxies". I doubt Russia would give the US my logs considering they still have Snowden.


[2 Points] None:

Using Tor without a VPN isnt safer. The point is using a VPN with Tor does not offer you more protection. Kids reading comprehension on this sub is horrible.


[2 Points] None:

[deleted]


[1 Points] StiffyAllDay:

Because if they want find out what user is running TOR via the VPN, they then only have to make the VPN company give up your details to grab you. That would be my guess.


[1 Points] lordredvampire:

VPN over TOR: exit node will only see your VPN IP address. Likewise, VPN will only see TOR exit node.

HOWTO: VPN over TOR - Hide your IP from Cryptostorm, protect yourself from Tor exit nodes: https://cryptostorm.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8826


[1 Points] steue2u:

As I understand it, it's the configuring of the VPN with Tor that specifically produces security concerns. I have a router running DD-WRT that's configured for my PIA VPN so ALL traffic on the network is routed through the VPN.

ISP can't see I'm using Tor, and any leaks don't point to my real IP. Consistently test for IP/DNS leaks with no problems. Love it.

PIA effectively confirmed to not log or at the very least told law enforcement they didn't and didn't provide any information other than mentioning their IPs that the involved traffic occurred on - and PIA cycles & shares IPs with multiple users simultaneously.

And I adore that you can subscribe with bitcoin or gift cards and nothing else but an (anonymous) email account and password at most.


[1 Points] snort2cb:

I use a router with openvpn where all deviced connected to the router connect via the vpn. which of the senerios listed here:

https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorPlusVPN#You-VPNSSH-Tor

applys to my setup ? (router runs open vpn and connects to VPN, I then boot up tails)


[1 Points] MT_Merchant_Mangler:

https://www.bestvpn.com/blog/42672/using-vpn-and-tor-together/

Oh gee, I was right!!


[0 Points] kppilihp:

using TOR over a VPN that is not connected with your identity is safer


[0 Points] None:

Theres a term that floats around from time to time...tip of my tongue right now...ah yes, proxie. I'm lazy/busy and have not researched, but something tells me this is another good avenue. Or at least the same as a VPN.


[-2 Points] MT_Merchant_Mangler:

Tor -> VPN = OK

VPN -> Tor = Goto jail.