You, We and I -- BOYCOTT THE TRADITIONAL MARKET PLACES - VENDORS MOVE TO A MULTISIG MARKET

Its been said and seen before and it will be said and seen again. Marketplaces can no longer be trusted...

Gone are the days of the DN community; it just isn't like it used to be. Perhaps you can blame popularity the markets have gained over the last 2 years, but where ever you lay the blame, it must be put on each and everyone of us. I feel like the markets and the DNM community are going through their adolescence years. They started innocent, not out out to scam, there to reduce harm and learning everything along the way. Then they and we gained in popularity and welcomed fraudsters, scammers and rouge vendors.

Vendors and customers alike, losing money because our tight knit community had been invaded. And what has been done to stop it? Well, there has been attempts, with little effort from the very community who want this sort of scamming to stop. We have DNM avengers, Doctor X, Multisig marketplaces.

And what does the community do? Uses Reddit as its main forum (I know, its a shame I thought the only way this would be seen if it was on reddit) Sticks to market places known to run by scammers and fraudsters (even after Evo....)

Vendors are equally to blame. If you aren't vending on a multisig market place, then how do you expect customers to buy from a mutlisig marketplace?

We need to reach Adulthood. Maturity. Realise our mistakes and take action. Because at the minute, all I see is scam after scam, whine after whine and with very little response to change. Surely vendors want to move to a multisig market place, surley it makes business sense?

If your vendor vends on a multisig market, follow him/her there! Becoming complaisant is what will ultimately end in tears.

EDIT: Some marketplaces to look at (to prevent phishing, head over to deepdotweb to grab the links):

East India trading company - 2-3 Multisig Markeplace

Hansa - 2-2 Multisig Marketplace

Oasis - Received a message from OasisMarketplace after i posted this thread. Multisig, Fee free marketplace, haven't taken a look yet but innovative ideas!


Comments


[14 Points] octomarvel:

I think one of the worst things is when a vendor accepts nothing but FE and blames previous market exit scams for their distrust. It's tantamount to making a facebook status that complains about facebook.

Like, move to a mutlisig market and make all your listings mutlisig then. You have options nigga.

A properly implemented MS market takes away all the buyer-vendor trust issues and also the vendor-market trust issues.

Asking for FE is basically passing the buck on anxiety to the buyer, who also has the whole mail wait anxiety already. It's a shitty practise that as much as I want it to be abolished, won't be.

As for OP, I can appreciate the sentimentality and where you're coming from but I just don't think a quick move can be made. Too many view dnms as an illegal eBay and humans are animals of routine n habit. We shy away from any form of change once comfortable and until more users lose faith and feel as uncomfortable with the current status of how things are run as you do, there will continue to be exitscams.

sad truths

=,(

PS - I also find it weird that EIC has a clearly growing user base but not an equally growing MS-listing. Like, how many vendors signed up n joined EIC only to continue with FE n escrow listings? It's a serious headscratcher.


[6 Points] Vendor_BBMC:

No.

Multisig escrows are harder for the marketplace to steal, but if they want to they will - they write the code. They could go offline for half a day and reappear with totally different escrows a week before exit scamming. But that's not the issue.

Escrow is the second most-important bitcoin process on a DNM. The most important task is being a coin-mixer, so that no individual customer's bitcoin can end up in any particular vendor's wallet.

This should go without saying. But multisig escrows are individual - for one transaction. You and the vendor can see each other's offsite bitcoin wallets, and the drug payment going directly from you to him.

All it takes is for the vendor to not tumble his takings through bitcoinfog ONCE, and LE can connect him to a bitcoin exchange account. That day a year ago when the vendor's rent was due so he sent bitcoin straight to coinbase or localbitcoins is all it takes to doxx him, because the blockchain is a permanent ledger.

Any vendor who uses multisig escrow is risking LE making a test purchase from him.

So that's the trouble with multisig - the marketplace allow bitcoin to cross it in drug purchases with no tumbling and no mixing with other customer's escrows.

Don't talk down to vendors about escrows. We get our wages in bitcoin. Multisig marketplaces can't even have a basic tumbler, by definition. Feel free to use them yourself, but both the vendor and the customer have to insulate their bitcoin exchange account wallets from the wallet closest to the escrow, by putting a tumbler between them.

I was all enthusiastic about multisig once, but abandoning community escrows and letting you pay your vendor directly is fundamentally dangerous. A cop could buy half a g of meth, follow his payment to a bitcoin exchange, and know that meth was sent by the guy selling "his" bitcoin.


[2 Points] Overmind_Rewind:

We do 50% of our sales in multisig and the other 50% regular escrow. Having at least 50% of escrow safe allowed us to lower prices across the board.

More multisig = less risk = lower prices.

And established vendors get charged just 2% market fees on EIC. Less risk and lower fees, vendors have every reason to open shop there.

Multisig is literally just copy pasting codes into different boxes and typing in passwords. Easy as hell to use.


[2 Points] El_eFe:

I've lost 5 bucks in exit scams [thanks evo]. If you lose hundreds or thousands, no one to blame but yourself. For the vendors losing the escrow, that's sadly a chance you have to take with escrow. You are sending your money to someone you don't know over the internet, there's bound to be some risk but more often than not the reward is greater; thus you have markets that have escrow. Escrow makes people feel the safety they need, if a vendor doesn't want escrow and has proven themself then just fe. There's certain things that you can't control, with illegal markets being one of those.


[2 Points] thomascheer:

we have stopped DNMs after lost $17,000USD to evolution and abraxas this year , now clearnet only, wait for a good market to come.


[2 Points] handofsalvation:

heres what youre forgetting id rather get scammed than educate myself on some useful shit


[1 Points] Mynanasnortsket:

/u/vendor_bbmc calling you into rage mate


[1 Points] None:

[deleted]


[1 Points] XinruLiu:

HANSA looks nice although its only 2-2, you cannot FE, it still prevents a market exit from how I look at it. Anyone care to prove the timelock issue or is that just a myth?


[1 Points] aSchizophrenicCat:

I thought we were already doing this?


[0 Points] TheRealDealMarket:

Just stop being lazy and it won't happen again.

http://trdealmgn4uvm42g.onion/users/settings/multisig


[-2 Points] powerman15:

I think you'd have a pretty hard time getting a handful of markets that are multisig. Right now I think there's like one or two markets that are completely multisig and they're pretty small. Putting all your eggs in one basket and using just one is a terrible idea. Bigger they are the harder they fall.

And honestly, it would be fucking stupid for a market admin to make their market only multisig. Exit scamming is part of the game, unfortunately. Look at it from their perspective. If these market owners are caught, they're spending the rest of their life in prison without a doubt.

If I owned a market I'd exit scam eventually and not think twice about it. There's only 3 ways a market can end:

-Die out peacefully like Nucleus

-LE bust

-Exit scam

Which is the most attractive option for a market owner who is taking on a MASSIVE amount of risk? I really don't blame any admins that have exit scammed and understand why they did it completely.


[-2 Points] BudgetBuyer:

Just because y'all don't know how to operate on a fickle market system, you think everypne need to band together to make things easier for you? Fuck that, escrow works if you're smart. Don't FE, don't spend money you don't have. Don't keep coin on a market wallet. Bam. There it is. Only thing we need to be boycotting is these weak-ass white boys coming on here whining when they safe space is compromised.