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Modvigil COA and further testing (self.modup)
17 points18 points19 points submitted 3 years ago * by SophieK7[M]
Following the results published here: http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=3111
We take the possibility of containments in our product very seriously and have asked our lab to test directly for the presence of Benzophenone or Benzocaine in Modvigil. A LCMS of the Modvigil showed it did not contain these compounds. It has only one component: Modafinil 68693-11-8. The LCMS is published below:
https://modup.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/image_1.jpg https://modup.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/image_2.jpg
We have also spoken directly to HAB (Modvigil Manufacturer) and they have agreed to give us regular CoAs for batches we purchase. We have published CoAs for previous batches we've sold.
Here are some recent CoAs: https://modup.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/1COA.jpg https://modup.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/2COA.jpg https://modup.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/3COA.jpg
NMR: https://modup.net/blog/modafinil-mass-spectrum-analysis/
To confirm the absence of containments in our Modvigil we're are willing to pay for a reputable redditor who has received Modvigil directly from us to have it independently tested. It can be a lab of their own choosing, we will cover all the costs, but it must be a certified lab that can do a thorough analysis.
[Lab information has been redacted at request of the Lab.]
[–]chasingicarus 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children)
I'm fairly impressed by ModUp with this response.
So now the question is - is ectasydata just incorrect?
[–]gwern 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children)
ED now says the lab was incorrect and the retest indicates no problem with their sample: http://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=3111
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[–]Vitusonet 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children)
This is great to see. I'm impressed with the response. This shows a level of professionalism that I find very welcome.
I like this trend of testing, and publishing the results. I also endorse the idea of multiple independent (and certified) lab tests.
[–]Tha-Bat 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children)
Once I actually receive my shipment, I'll be more than happy to do a lab test here in my home town. Supposedly I should get it this week, we'll see.
[–]SophieK7[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children)
Great, what lab?
[–]mduprvw 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children)
This is good.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children)
Whenever I get my shipment (reshipped a week ago) I can take some to a local lab that would do it.
[–]SophieK7[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child)
Please provide more information on the lab, what equipment they have etc.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children)
I'll send you a message with the information.
Thank you!
An update was posted in the Afinil forum: http://www.reddit.com/r/afinil/comments/25jpsq/updated_modvigil_lab_test_determined_to_be_100/
The tablets are pure modafinil. The first test result was due to an error in the test.
"The benzophenone detected by the lab was created during the testing process and is not present in the original tablet."
[–]SomeGuyWhat 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago* (6 children)
Great, except those spectra don't match any that I know of for Modafinil.
See here, here and here.
EDIT: This one too. (pg. 3/4)
As for the NMR spectra, it doesn't seem to match this prediction.
All the people saying 'this is great, we can trust you now' - do you have the faintest idea what you're looking at here?
EDIT II: Then again, this spectrum does match OP's... we really need to wait for independent lab testing on these pills.
[–]downturn247 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child)
Does the method/prep and chemicals used in the prep cause variance?
All the links you provide, show analysis for doping agents in urine, for example one link shows results for ritalinic acid, the other shows results for mobile phase ratios, and only briefly mentions some data points for spectra, which match the results posted by the OP. The ijbpr article shows varies results for different types of Degradation, but I am not seeing a comparable chart?
[–]SomeGuyWhat 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children)
The ijbpr article shows varies results for different types of Degradation, but I am not seeing a comparable chart?
Clearly I need more sleep. Link struck out.
Theoretically, no. However, this spectrum does appear to match OP's, so clearly it is more complex than originally thought.
[–]mduprvw 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children)
Good thoughts, would love for you to elaborate for us non-experienced at reading this stuff, assuming you have the knowledge to do so. For example, do different Moda's (generic, brand, etc) show up in different ways on the spectra? Is there a difference for detecting in urine vs. the actual pill? What are your thoughts on ecstasy data's presentation?
[–]SomeGuyWhat 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (2 children)
Firstly, I am not a Modafinil expert. I am an organic chemist, but not even a drug-development chemist, so don't take anything I say as gospel.
For example, do different Moda's (generic, brand, etc) show up in different ways on the spectra?
They shouldn't do! Modafinil is a molecule, and molecules have a defined structure - that is what you will get in brand name pills or generic pills. There may well be differences in binders and other inactive ingredients, but they will be removed before testing.
Is there a difference for detecting in urine vs. the actual pill?
In what way? The peaks for a substance are the same whether you shove urine or a solution made from a pill into the MS.
What are your thoughts on ecstasy data's presentation?
Presenting only ratios and not showing the actual spectra? Not brilliant. I can understand why they do it, but it's far too open to interpretation.
[–]mduprvw 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children)
I am an organic chemist
Hence, you are speaking with about 99% more knowledge than most of us here
[–]NootUser 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children)
There may well be differences in binders and other inactive ingredients, but they will be removed before testing.
Could benzophenone be removed during that process?
[–]totes_meta_bot 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children)
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[–]mduprvw 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children)
Yes, yes, yes! This is really, really awesome. The facts we know so far:
I've ordered from Modup in the past but I'm simply too new to be considered a reliable source, so I hope someone else steps forward.
[–]Vitusonet 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children)
a ModUp provided COA is a great start, but not good enough. Anybody can produce a fake COA
I don't agree with this sentiment at all. IF these were results posted from a relatively unknown supplier, such as one of the shady lurkers who recently appeared, then maybe it would be reasonable. But ModUP and Sophie have established a long standing precedent of responsible and professional behavior. Not to mention the ability to maintain a professional web site that accepts bitcoin demonstrates technical competence, which counts for something.
While I welcome additional empirical data, at this point I wonder if ecstasydata.org is a certified lab, and competent to analyze modafinil. They admit to having many limitations to what they can test. I'm also wondering about the submission from an apparent reddit throwaway account.
At this point I'm totally satisfied with Sophie's results. If something more compelling comes along later (from a reliable certified lab), of course I would consider it, but I'm fine with things as they stand.
[–]mduprvw 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children)
I think you misread my intent. I have already praised Sophie and ModUp in this matter, (and would testify to their conduct in my own personal dealings with them as well.)
Fake COA's are a reality, and could happen even without Sophie/ModUp's knowledge. There's a certain standard for COA's, how the sample is collected, who collects it, how often the testing is done, etc, and it always revolves around removing self interest. I've watched that happen for stuff as simple as spring water, and all those bases of removing self interest are always covered. ModUp has a self-interest, and that's not impugning their motives, it's a flat reality of selling things. But what they have done is gone the extra mile to say, we're willing to test this in a completely third party way, so, let's do it. Let's clear up all doubt, then it's a win for us AND ModUp.
I'd love for the Modvigil pills to be completely exonerated in this whole thing.
[–]Vitusonet 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child)
My disagreement is with your absolute wording: "but not good enough... we need a reputable...". If you had said, "not good enough for me", then I would have had no comment.
To reason objectively, in many cases, you only have the facts available to you, and from those, you judge a level of confidence. For example, even if you test with a 3rd party, how do you know that particular batch, good or bad, was representative of what you might receive? How do you know even then, if it will be the same next month?
You could have your own test equipment, but then if you test one pill, what if that pill is randomly different? So as with anything, you take the facts you have, in this case, Sophie's post, and the other anecdotes, and weigh them. Which then comes back to whether it's good enough "for you" or not. My point was, it's good enough for me. As with anything, I'll consider any new credible facts that come along.
With all that said, I get where you were going, and agree with most of it, but I think the implication that there is a 100% black and white point that must be reached, and the phrasing which suggested (to me) that you were speaking for me, is what prompted me to respond :)
I appreciate the thoughtful reply, and can see your point about the use of "we" (whats good enough for you versus me, etc) and also that there are always further "holes" that could be pointed out which, given the circumstances, would be virtually impossible to eliminate.
But going back in the other direction, I think there is a question of "we", that is, this Reddit community, specifically r/afinil (and r/modup and others), we have a community that we participate in to some level or other, we have semi-approved sources (via the mods), and to some extent, have a responsibility to each other. (I'm sure we could have many discussions about how that all works and to what level that responsibility is, etc :)
So I guess that is the sense in which I use "we." There are some reasonably accepted standard levels of testing, which I alluded to, and by which I'm hoping for some testing to a greater level to enrich this community, including even the seller. :)
[–]mduprvw 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child)
So, has anyone stepped forward on this?
Still looking for someone.
[–]LiquidRainbowX 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child)
Who can i send a pill/or pills to for independent analysis? I'll gladly do it on your guys' front.. i'm absolutely assured this is on the equivalent of provigil in terms of dopamine production...
That is the problem, we have tested the product with the only lab we could find willing to test it, but we need to find more labs.
[–]silver-beard 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child)
Still no conclusive answer, but there is some updated information on the Ecstasy Data web page
Yeah, they have said the results are uncertain, until they get the standards.
[–]FoxTheory 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children)
Modafinil is cheap as hell to make the only thing they'd try to fake it with is caffeine like that one website did. Didn't take people long to catch on. The legal version of modafnils pre assessor is 100% legal and easily avaiable on ebay or maybe even your vitamin store adrafinil.
Though it takes longer to work have to use larger doses and is harder on the liver you can't long term the latter. But the effect is 100% the same it metabolises into modafinil.
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[–]chasingicarus 1 point2 points3 points (2 children)
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[–]Tha-Bat 1 point2 points3 points (2 children)
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