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[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Damn it gwern we missed you!

[–]lagomorpher 20 points21 points  (27 children)

MDMA (crystal) 88.3±1.4%

That is an incredibly tight standard deviation.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (18 children)

I agree. It looks suspicious. Is the synthesis process that consistent?

[–]lagomorpher 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wouldn't expect so, but I have personally had two samples from different vendors sent to EC for testing and they came back at 88% and 89%. But across the broader market, that figure is surprising.

[–]SgtFaecesProcessor 1 point2 points  (3 children)

The problem appears to be simply a matter of sample size. Had a quick look at the report and the table I saw showed most analyses referred to cocaine with very few of each of the other drugs. There's not much to say, just wasn't enough for a reliable figure for anything else but cocaine.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

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[–]pm_me_thick_girlz -1 points0 points  (1 child)

People have been sending their street drugs through the mail to get tested since the 90s. I doubt that the majority of EC users are also darknet users.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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[–]MrGangGreen 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Why the hell are vendors, who I assume know that the whole "84% highest purity" is a misconception, still advertising it as such? They're basically underselling their own product. Is the 84% thing so ingrained in buyers heads that labelling it any higher would create skepticism and therefore less profit? I dunno, seems kind of strange.

[–]underdosedwtf 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Yes. People are incredibly dumb, more than what you'd think.

Go over to /r/Drugs and ask for the 84% thing. You'll get 50% responses "yes, max is 84%", 25% "uh your MDMA is shit bro" (completely off-topic crap from more dumb people) and 25% of actual good answers that explain it properly, which are most likely from the mods of the sub.

Never underestimate human stupidity.

[–]honestlyimeanreally 20 points21 points  (7 children)

Nice to see real research confirming what most of us already suspected: there's better shit on the darknet.

Not too surprising considering DNMs effectively globalized drug trade in a safe manner for end-users and kingpins alike.

As always, thank you gwern.

[–]honestlyimeanreally 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I don't know much, no.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I find that is not as bad a state to be in as one would first think.

[–]honestlyimeanreally 2 points3 points  (3 children)

There is much to know, after all.

[–]DnmAvenger 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Hey, man. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass.... Sorry if I came across that way. It was more of an invite to come check out the site. Dr.X is on every so often to answer questions that users post. r/DNM is great! I just like to think we give a little different perspective on the dnm scene.

[–]honestlyimeanreally 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Haha, I thought you were but it's okay, sticks and stones and all that.

I sincerely thank you for the invitation; I'll have to come check that out!

[–]DnmAvenger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool, man. After I reread my comment this morning I was like, "Damn, I sounded like an asshole." lol I am all about respect though. Please do check out the site, and join if you like it! We love to hear everyone's opinions over there. Our community is what makes us great!

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

" In 589 alleged cocaine samples, 14% contained only cocaine, and the purity of samples containing cocaine was 48%."

Backs up alot of my claims about the purity of street level cocaine. 👎

[–]sillysally11 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Me too. I remember arguing with someone that the coke they were getting was most likely 50/50, and they basically called me an idiot, and said that their coke was more like 80%, which had me howling. I'm sure 80% pure coke might hit the streets sometimes, but this stuff they were doing was no where near that.

[–]underdosedwtf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the purity of street level ANYTHING

FTFY

[–]420krigeren 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi gwern!

[–]theevoinsider 9 points10 points  (0 children)

the NSA finely gave you a day off so you could return to reddit, nice

[–]ThatBoyUpToSomething 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Finally your back!

Although you don't know me I really love your work.

[–]Jason14th 5 points6 points  (13 children)

missed you buddy

good shit btw

does it says what the top cuts in the coke were?

[–]Superdankmaster 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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[–]Jason14th 1 point2 points  (0 children)

good shit

[–]charbo187 1 point2 points  (6 children)

why no heroin tests? :(

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Because heroin users can't wait, and don't want to part with their product. Also, Idk how true this is, but cocaine users tend to have more money, so they're more willing to part with their product.

[–]BakedPastaParty 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thats just not true. Look over at the DNMAvengers heroin forum; they consistently test vendors' new batches and brand new vendors' gear. Nobody bitches about having to ship in a samples or waiting for results. Some users wait for results bedre they even consume the dope. So dont mae sweeping generalisations like that

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would have to go over there, but I don't remember there being any tests done for the big vendors like TGS, Cali, and AlexSosa.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

honestly? probably stigma associated with it. Its a deadly and very addictive substance but thats the very reason we need test results/quality control. But i dont really do opiates anyways

[–]SEND_ME_UR_DRUGS 1 point2 points  (1 child)

a deadly and very addictive substance

You're commenting on a cocaine purity comment, with that in mind I don't see how this is a valid point.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're commenting on a cocaine purity comment, with that in mind I don't see how this is a valid point.

im 90% sure that the ratio between the average dose and lethal dose is much greater than that of heroin. They're both harmful, but i would still put heroin above cocaine

[–]thebakerbastard 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Why is levamisole used so frequently as opposed to a harmless/cheaper substance such as creatine?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

its a dewormer for cattle and south america has a lot of cattle... also I think it mimics the effects and looks of cocaine if I'm not mistaken.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yay, gwern!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

YAY!

[–]Suddenrush 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No opiates were tested? :( Thats the shit killing people daily and what NEEDS tests kits for as its so hard to test for things like fent and rc opiates being pressed into pills and being mixed into dope all too often these days it seems.

[–]TigerMonarchy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have just met you Gwern...and already, your detail in such data display and organization makes me glad you are you and are doing you. Thank you already.

[–]CynicalElephant 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you aware that you're the fucking man, my man.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Big Gwern!

[–]ILikeToThrowAwaaayy 1 point2 points  (19 children)

Amphetamine (speed) 51.3±33.9%;

Whoa, but SSB, the analytical chemistry experts who perform no actual tests, state it is impossible for them to produce anything less than 95% pure. Therefore, all of these scientific tests are clearly incorrect!

/s

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

A majority of the tests are probably done on speed paste, and not the "pure" amphetamine powders.

[–]ILikeToThrowAwaaayy 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Whilst I can not say with 100% certainty for EC's lab, I can for standardised forensic labs. Wet samples may be sent for headspace analysis using GC to identify any solvents; this is rarely done unless you are trying to profile it. Otherwise, a loss-on-drying is performed, which can be tricky to perform accurately with volatile solvents on a small sample weight. On a basic level you simple shove it in an oven at 60-80C for a while then dissolve it in ethanol. Testing wet samples would be rather meaningless from a scientific viewpoint. Since wet samples would vary vastly depending on source, age and storage/transportation conditions then you do not get any meaningful quantification numbers. For these reasons, drying is an important and standard step in analysis. Drying speed paste is easy to do and you will end up with "pure" amphetamine powder, cut with various sugars, caffeine and by-products. If they were not tested like this then they would likely have two subsections for amphetamine paste and powder; because the two would not be comparable.

TLDR; Should not matter if it was in paste form or not, nobody tests wet samples - especially if you are determining purity. Drying speed paste is quick and simple, so the test results would be the same for paste as for powder.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I was referring to dried speed paste. I've bought and dried speed paste, and it was about half the strength of SSB's product. Shit's nastay.

[–]ILikeToThrowAwaaayy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ah ok, sorry for the misunderstanding. Speed paste isn't necessarily any stronger nor weaker than dried powder; in fact all speed comes in paste form, it's just cheaper/faster to sell it as paste from a business prospective rather than spend the time and effort to bulk-dry it. I know there is a long standing dispute about paste vs powder, but logically neither is better, you can still cut both of them.

I can't really put a scientific judgement on your experiences, which is why we rely on EC to make these determinations for us.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A-grade points!

[–]ButcherBlues 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shit's nasty? Get a good vendor and live the sweet life. Had some bomb ass speed in the past.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

It didn't say that was just SSB, right?

[–]ILikeToThrowAwaaayy 0 points1 point  (6 children)

No, but several samples were sent to EC from SSB's customers and some results came back as 50-70% and SSB simply refuted the claim, saying it was impossible to be less than 95%, yet they gave no evidence to support their claim.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

I submitted 2 photoshopped EC tests under throwaways to prove a point and everyone ate it up.

That being said, I have no doubt SSB has had less than 95% purity batches on multiple occasions.

[–]Throughawayup 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Wait did your fake tests support a higher or lower than advertised purity?

[–]ILikeToThrowAwaaayy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It shouldn't matter either way, people would have "ate it up" because they were trusting what they thought were EC-verified results and the bulk reaction would be due to the test results. If anything, it means we need to question what people post more, which is a saddening considering we're meant to be helping each other.

[–]Throughawayup 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree I was just curious

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I don't know what the actual averages are (no one does, which is part of my point lol), I just edited existing ones for SSB and BV.

[–]drugs_4_sale 0 points1 point  (0 children)

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[–]Herculius 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The pureness of the original production process seems largely irrelevant to the makeup of the final product. For a simple example, milk from a cow is 100% cow milk (by definition), as in I can't produce milk from a cow that isn't 100% from a cow. But after that cow milk is produced I can add water or whatever I want to it to complete my final product.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

sometimes strawberry flavouring can be advantageous and yet that would reduce the purity giving the impression it is an inferior product yet sometimes I prefer strawberry milk.

[–]isthismdma 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is remarkable how both the average purity and the standard deviation are worse than for cocaine (71.6±19.4%), which goes through way more hands between production and insufflation & has a horrible reputation.

[–]drugs_4_sale 0 points1 point  (1 child)

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[–]ILikeToThrowAwaaayy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In fact, they did so recently in response to the recent low EC result posted. I wont post their entire response but an excerpt that is relevant

[...] I can guarantee you that a 50 or 60% figure is way off, just impossible. I can't tell you an exact figure because I really don't know, but I'm sure that no batch has gone below 95%.

[–]GalileoBTC744 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad to see that sound research is being done with all of these submissions. Thanks for the post!

[–]anon1901 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The information machine returns!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So where is the meth results or should we be taking the speed results for this?

[–]327Columbia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Keep in mind that all the data is provided by Energy Control. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here but with the recent outright wrong results of meth purity we have to be more skeptical now. Data from a second lab like Safer Party would go along nicely with this.

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