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Silk Road forums

Discussion =3D> Silk Road discussion =3D> Topic= started by: Dread Pirate Roberts on June 26, 2011, 05:37 pm

Title: New seller accounts
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on June 26, 2011= , 05:37 pm: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hey gang,
As= some of you noticed, we shut down new seller accounts briefly, but have no= w opened them up again.=C2=A0 This time, we are limiting the supply of new= seller accounts and auctioning them off to the highest bidders.=C2=A0 Our= hope is that by doing this, only the most professional and committed selle= rs will have access to seller accounts.=C2=A0 For the time being, we will= be releasing one new seller account every 48 hours, though this is subject= to change.=C2=A0 If you want to become a seller on Silk Road, click "becom= e a seller" at the bottom of the homepage, read the seller contract and the= Seller's Guide, click "I agree" at the bottom, and then you'll be taken to= the bidding page.=C2=A0 Here, you should enter the maximum bid you are wil= ling to make for your account upgrade.=C2=A0 The system will automatically= outbid the next highest bidder up to this amount.=C2=A0 If anything is unc= lear, just drop us a line.=C2=A0 Good luck!
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Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: dance4life on June 26, 2011, 07:35 pm=: Should be interesting!

=C2=A0:D
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: phubaiblues on June 26, 2011, 08:13= pm: I am so appreciative that you keep trying to find ways to make this saf= er, and to keep the scammers off here.=C2=A0 Buyers are in the most vulnera= ble position, as we have to send out an address, no way around it...until= nanotechnology is improved to where we can buy the dope code the same as= bitcoins, we need protection.=C2=A0 A good reputable seller will be alrigh= t with this...the scammers will get weeded out...
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: ChronicallyMedicated on June 26, 2011= , 08:17 pm: I think this is a good step towards adding some disincentive towards sc= ammers trying to advertise through SR.=C2=A0 I think maybe we should go a= step further and add some rules about sellers stating that they only accep= t payments outside the escrow system.

Question: will any of the bid= amounts be released to the 'SR public'?=C2=A0 Just out of curiosity.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: SnappyTom on June 26, 2011, 08:45 pm<= /strong>: It would be nice if vendors with good feedback could refer other vendor= s into accounts.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: hybridmike on June 26, 2011, 10:44 pm=: Awesome, this is something i mentioned on the old forum after the first= outage and all new accounts were disabled... by limiting the new user sell= er accounts it will make everything alot safer! Bravo!
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: listentothemusic on June 27, 2011, 12= :10 am: Do old sellers get to keep their seller accounts then?
Or do we have= to re-apply and bid?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: phubaiblues on June 27, 2011, 01:26= am: Quote fro= m: listentothemusic on June 27, 2011, 12:10 am
Do old sellers get to keep their seller accou= nts then?
Or do we have to re-apply and bid?

I certainly= hope youall do...that's the way I understood it...
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: rake on June 27, 2011, 01:44 am: It doesn't have much weight but being able to refer some vendors would= be good.=C2=A0 I've run into a few who are trying to do the right thing by= buyers but are stymied by the lack of seller accounts.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: nearo on June 27, 2011, 01:53 am: I would suggest seeing the demand of new seller accounts. If there is= high demand for new seller accounts it may be good to allow more per perio= d. This is after all a free market which probably would be bad to limit SR= to those who can afford to be in the vendor club.

The problems I co= uld see arising would be vendors who can't pay up to join, and will try to= do deals outside of the system. It's not a good idea if you're a buyer, bu= t if the vendor can provide a price point that is too good to pass up to th= e buyer, they could circumvent the system. Just my $.02.

I do believ= e it's good to limit the number of new vendors but you should definitely co= nsider the demand for new seller accounts, and evaluate if changes need to= be made.

Keep up the good work SR.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on June 27, 2011, 02:30 am<= /strong>: This is a good step.=C2=A0 L.E.'s main mechanism for getting involved= will be on the seller side, since the buyer side is the weakest in terms= of information.=C2=A0 Also it will discourage scammers from getting into= the game (although I'm sure it's already pretty hard to scam inside of the= escrow structure - any transaction outside of escrow has nothing to do wit= h SR and the responsibility lies solely on the participants).

It wou= ld also be interesting to see what the bidding is up to.=C2=A0 If a seller= is serious, he's not going to mind throwing down a few bitcoins to get int= o the game and you are more likely to get sellers who have good sources (or= are their own source) providing services and products.=C2=A0 This will inc= rease the overall quality of goods on SR, which is of course to the benefit= of the customers.

Bottom line - I like it!
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: undeniableDillema on June 27, 2011,= 02:42 am: while it initially seems like a good system (certainly better than noth= ing/no new sellers), i dont really understand what this system is supposed= to accomplish wrt LE, firstly what i don't get is

1.) what good wou= ld LE have to create fake buyer accounts? e.g. they'd be going after buyers= , which seems like it would be more work than its worth (so you busted some= kid for getting a personal supply).=C2=A0 is this really the approach we= think LE will take ? wouldn't it be more profitable to try to a.) take out= the sellers firstly or if not, take the site offline
2.) what's to stop= LE from bidding high enough to create seller accounts?

or am i misu= nderstanding the approach with respect to LE (or is this purely to make sur= e sellers trying to do business on SR are just legit and not scammers)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: listentothemusic on June 27, 2011, 03= :59 am: The way I see it, You arent able to provide the best product if you don= 't even have the money to pay for an account.
Not having money leads to= poor products, poor packaging, and less care. Someone who pays for an acco= unt has an added devotion to their sales. People who like making money woul= dnt spend money unless they knew they were going to provide their everythin= g to make more. Maybe they are trying to clean up from the people trying to= nickel and dime in a field that should have only the most dedicated sellin= g. Let's be honest with ourselves, would you rather buy from someone who is= going out to buy from their person once an order is made, or from someone= who is full on dedicated and ready to sell to you in hand.=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: JackDan on June 27, 2011, 07:32 am: To be honest I will not spend my bitcoins on an auction just to become= a seller here so I can be scammed further by having sent my product to fak= e addresses provided by fake buyers. Or buyers who claim they newer got my= package and with the help of the escrow system=C2=A0 get their money back= while I lost my product and paid for the postage or else, I get a negative= rep.

Sellers are the one who needs protection, not the buyers who= are protected by the escrow system and the rep system, both favors the buy= ers not the sellers.

Sellers will try to find other ways outside SR= if a pre-payment is needed.

IMO it'd be better to charge every tran= saction with a minimal amount of bitcoin this would take back on bogus buys= .

Unused seller accounts that never listed anything could be deleted= , these are already being sold here and elsewhere.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on June 27, 2011, 02:18 pm<= /strong>: @JackDan

The unfortunate truth of the matter is that the "brick= and mortar" risk (artificial consequences imposed by moral legalists) lies= entirely on the buyer.=C2=A0 Unless you are flashing a driver's license wh= en sending off your product, there is nothing to tie a seller to the outgoi= ng package (other than city of origin, in which case you could make a bi-we= ekly trip to the nearest larger urban post office).=C2=A0 The buyer assumes= all of this risk, the risk to the seller is purely a financial one.
This is the reason prices are a bit higher than on the street.=C2=A0 The= seller needs to cover shipping costs, packaging costs, and the off-chance= that there are a few scam buyers on SR.=C2=A0 That being said, I have 8 tr= ansactions so far and no one has tried to scam me yet (although 7 are still= in transit thanks to the CP strike).
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Happy Man on June 27, 2011, 02:58 pm<= /strong>: I too hope that a referral system will be added as a way to gain a sell= er account, because this auction system would be disappointing in itself.= It does seem to minimize the presence of scammers, especially if seller ac= counts are lost by people who receive too high a proportion of complains,= but IMO enhances the presence of LE by relying completely on financial res= ources and not on a network of trust. If the only sellers wanted here are= the biggest then I may as well sign out now. I don't plan to make my livin= g by selling drugs, I just came here to sell a few obscure items I couldn't= safely offer otherwise, pick up a few items I haven't been offered before= and to see what might become of this novel new concept. Besides, my spendi= ng money has been invested in RCs, not bitcoins, so I would have to sell to= buy a seller account. Maybe there needs to be another trading site for ord= inary people like me. And I do see this as a trading site, since bitcoins= seem to be primarily FOR drugs, at least at this point.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: collapses on June 27, 2011, 03:11 pm<= /strong>: Quote fro= m: anarcho47 on June 27, 2011, 02:18 pm
@JackDan

The buyer assumes all of this risk, th= e risk to the seller is purely a financial one.

How can= you belittle this risk?=C2=A0 If there is no security for sellers then who= would sell?=C2=A0 I have a lot of money still in escrow and it really worr= ies me watching as the days tick down to zero.=C2=A0 I guess that's the pri= ce of being on the cutting edge. ;)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Wreck on June 27, 2011, 05:32 pm: This is bullshit, so some of us already with accounts who were going to= turn into sellers now have to buy a seller account? All this will mean is= every big seller will be law enforcment because they can afford to buy all= the accounts. Seriously wtf silk road, you are basically setting up every= single buyer to be caught in one massive web. I reckon this is just about= silk road making more money.

And what about sellers being scammed?= Happens an awful lot more than you realize. If this is what silk road is= doing now i may as well set up my own server you get me? For the price of= an account i could buy some old hardware to make a web server.

Jes= us Christ this is shit.

And yeah i know i don't got to sell here an= d all that stuff, just sayin it's a bad idea yeah.=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: JackDan on June 27, 2011, 06:00 pm: 1 scammer can make 20 buyers account and make bogus buys, although if= the price is deducted from his account when placing an order sounds much= better, because every account will have to have some Bitcoins that will be= on hold during the whole transaction.
I overlooked this one before, but= still don't know if this is how it works on SR or not.

So the selle= r can loose his product and postage cost every single time a transaction oc= curs (I doubt that a seller will take the buyers reputation points into acc= ount, because there are a lot of one time buyers and "one nick name for one= buy" buyers). Or he loose his reputation.
The buyer can loose an addres= s if something goes wrong (fake seller, LE).=C2=A0 So what can the seller= do with an address that might be:
- completely fake (in case the scamme= r's goal was to make the seller lose his product and postage cost)
- a= safe address (unlinked to the buyer)
- the buyers home

If there= was just a small amount for personal use, the fake seller or LE might have= opened a telephone book to point out a random address with much less effor= t than faking sells on SR, he has about the same chance to find something= illegal in that random house he pointed at in the phone book, as in that= address he got from the buyer.

For bigger amounts nobody should use= his own address IMO, but that is obvious.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Wreck on June 27, 2011, 06:54 pm: Oh and guys i don't think you considered something, if you have to buy= an account you're no longer anonymous. When you purchase bitcoins you usua= lly do it with a card, bank account etc. These coins can be tracked to see= what you buy with them, if it's a silk road account then you're screwed.= This is why bitcoin washing services exist, to disguise the connection bet= ween the individual coins and what they are used for.

So buy your= bitcoins in cash, with disposable credit cards or something else.

= This is a mistake silk road, and yeah i'm pissed cause i wanted to sell and= i have this kind of moral issue with buying an account to sell illegal shi= t. You guys could of at least given all existing accounts the option of upg= rading to sellers for free.

Oh and what if people buy accounts in= large quantities and resell them? The same person winning every 48 hours,= i'm guessing silk road won't give a fuck, they make money anyway lol
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: pscr13 on June 27, 2011, 07:27 pm: I say sellers provide a picture of whatever they are selling with a not= e in view showing user name and date of listing.

or

in auctio= n be able to set a max bid until an auction is won.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Wreck on June 27, 2011, 07:41 pm: Quote fro= m: pscr13 on June 27, 2011, 07:27 pm
I say sellers provide a picture of whatever they are sell= ing with a note in view showing user name and date of listing.
This is better idea than the auction, i mean people with money will just= buy every auction and resell the accounts. Kind of fucks the whole purpose= of it, and established sellers might buy multiple accounts to eliminate co= mpetition.

Photos can be faked but at laest it's a better idea than= the auctions.

MAYBE.........a better idea would be any new seller= has to send a sample to silk road admins and/or approved testers.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: trippy on June 27, 2011, 09:24 pm: Quote fro= m: JackDan on June 27, 2011, 07:32 am
IMO it'd be better to charge every transaction with a mi= nimal amount of bitcoin this would take back on bogus buys.

T= here's already a 5% charge.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: rake on June 27, 2011, 10:31 pm: Quote fro= m: Wreck on June 27, 2011, 07:41 pm
<= a href=3D"http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion/index.php?topic=3D360.msg2328#msg23= 28">Quote from: pscr13 on June 27, 2011, 07:27 pm
I say sellers provide a picture of whatever= they are selling with a note in view showing user name and date of listing= .
=

This is better idea than the auction, i mean people with mo= ney will just buy every auction and resell the accounts. Kind of fucks the= whole purpose of it, and established sellers might buy multiple accounts= to eliminate competition.

Photos can be faked but at laest it's a= better idea than the auctions.

MAYBE.........a better idea would= be any new seller has to send a sample to silk road admins and/or approved= testers.

I can understand you are pissed but how do you prop= ose to fight scammers?=C2=A0 Sending drugs to the admin of the site isn't= feasible.=C2=A0 Yes you can setup your own web server, as could I and a lo= t of others but you are on this site due to its reputation.=C2=A0 Personall= y I think the auction isn't ideal and perhaps a lottery system would be bet= ter.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: rake on June 27, 2011, 10:43 pm: Quote fro= m: JackDan on June 27, 2011, 07:32 am

IMO it'd be better to charge every transaction with= a minimal amount of bitcoin this would take back on bogus buys.

Perhaps escrow decisions should never be 100% in favor of one party= .=C2=A0 So if there is an issue the buyers know they will always be out of= pocket.=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: GreenhamsterXXL on June 28, 2011, 05:= 13 am: Hello, >:(

So i must say this auction was really SHIT. I want= ed to join but they don't even say when it ends.That is very unprofessional= !!
It always said 1 hour and was not counting down the minutes and sudd= enly phfft... finished and it doesnt even show the highest bid.
SilkRoad= ...... bad job you are did=C2=A0 there......wasting my nighttime waiting fo= r a good point to bid.
When you go on acting these ways i guess you loos= e your=C2=A0 good reputation.
For the next auction you really should tel= l us when it ends.

Still really pissed for my wasted time

Gre= enhamsterXXL=C2=A0 =C2=A0>:(=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >:(=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >:(
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on June 28, 2011, 05:28 am<= /strong>: Even if one party decides to buy up all of the seller accounts and rese= ll them, big deal!=C2=A0 in the end, people with some money are able to pic= k up a seller account, it doesn't matter if it changes hands 2 times or a= hundred.

The LE excuse is just a weasly one as far as I'm concerned= .=C2=A0 I'm pretty sure the bids aren't that high (it would be nice if SR= could publish results - not users, mind you, just "winning bid amount" -= to give the next round an idea of what to look for.)=C2=A0 This would actu= ally benefit SR I'm pretty sure becuase the benchmark would climb for a whi= le and there would be more BC coming in for the site.=C2=A0 Even if LE is= picking up accounts big deal.=C2=A0 They don't bust buyers like they do se= llers, and there is no link back to the seller anyway except through SR.
As for purchasing bitcoins, it is an absolute must that you purchase= them with an anonymous CC (prepaid gift card that requires no ID), or are= generating them via a mining program.=C2=A0 There are coin shuffling servi= ces out there too that let you mix in with a ton of other transactions so= it's virtually impossible to link the origin of the coins.=C2=A0 I believe= SR already does coin mixing within the site but a second round wouldn't hu= rt.

@Greenhamster - sounds like you are frustrated but it's no reaso= n to flip out like 4chan kid.=C2=A0 This is a new thing.=C2=A0 SR just came= out with it.=C2=A0 As with everything else, I'm sure he's open to suggesti= ons (he has an entire forum section devoted to that), so positive results= would probably be more attainable by stating the benefits of adding a serv= ice instead of throwing a type-tantrum and vomiting all over this forum.
I think having an escrow fee on the buyer side makes sense=C2=A0 Even= 15% or something just to tamp constant scamming.=C2=A0 A buyer rating syst= em is ideal as well from a seller perspective, so that scammers can be flag= ged asap and the community can know about it - other than that if you are= a seller and you have issues with a customer, post his username and your= story in the Rumor Mill section of the forum - sellers check there all the= time.

As to the risks - a seller can be out his product, sure (I'm= not mitigating the financial liability at all).=C2=A0 I'm just saying that= so far my experience has been solid so I dont' have to jack my prices up= to accomodate a 50% rip-off rate.=C2=A0 There is also arbitration whereby= SR will mediate a dispute.=C2=A0 If you are a reputable seller chances are= you are going to at least have your side of the story honestly considered.= =C2=A0 This whole thing is a work and progress and it seems to be off the= ground solidly.=C2=A0 There will be many kinks along the way and that's no= t counting personal security issues, just keep feeding in suggestions and= hopefully the good ones will be adopted over time and we can have an even= better, more secure and mutually-beneficial community than we do now.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: ChronicallyMedicated on June 28, 2011= , 06:20 am: @Greenhamster: If anyone is being unprofessional, it is you.=C2=A0 Ther= e's nothing wrong with disagreeing with the policy and suggesting an altern= ative, but whining and complaining isn't productive, and furthermore I woul= d imagine it gives potential buyers a good preview of how you handle issues= (not very well from this example, IMO).
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: phubaiblues on June 28, 2011, 07:43= am: Good sellers and good buyers do fine...but as the man said: buyers take= the huge legal risk, sending out addies...nothing else compares...escrow= protects both sides...I haven't heard of bunch of fake buyers going to all= this trouble, just to get a few btc refunded.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The serious prob= lem is fake sellers who take the btc and run...all you have to do is trot= over to Black Market and see...this place works just fine and the owners= are doing a good job, and the reason for the bidding is to prevent the bul= lshit sellers from hopping on here to make a free buck...again: the sellers= hold the buyers address...there just aren't now, nor are there going to be= , a bunch of people going to all=C2=A0 this trouble, just to lie about not= receiving product.

I didn't receive product, and even so, I'm hesit= ant to post negative feedback...this isn't ebay...we operate on the fringes= of internet society, such as it is...and we presume a bit of goodwill, or= we wouldn't be here...worrying about packs of bad buyers taking advantage= of sellers..use gpg, pm each other, the auction is a great idea, that and= the reputation/feedback...it's working...people are worried this will get= like ebay with bad reps being posted..this isn't ebay, and there are some= serious reasons buyers act right on here...
Title: Auction
Post by: GreenhamsterXXL on June 28, 2011, 09:= 43 am: =C2=A0::) Well, well well....., yes, calmed down a bit.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It= s just... first i already prepared for a while setting up my products on SR= ,...then=C2=A0 second suddenly the day i wanted to change to sellers accoun= t.. its not available anymore... and there were no replies from SR to any= of my questions about that,... then third,.. there was no reply to my ques= tion when the auction will end,.. so fourth i stayed up in the middle of th= e night to place a good bit just to see that the auction suddenly was finis= hed although there was still the one hour sign.

Well well i think th= at is something you can get pissed about.=C2=A0 :-\

About the auctio= n itself i think its ok, but too i see the risk of just people with big fun= ds and big business buying all these accounts and
the small trader will= not be able to get one anymore at a resonable rate. But we'll se how it go= es the next weeks.
I definately would suggest for the auction to show th= e minutes in the last hour.

GreenhamsterXXL=C2=A0 over and out
= =C2=A0;)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: sandybridge on June 28, 2011, 10:49= am: Here's to the the winner of the first auction, and our newest seller,= "Mitanox"! May the acid be trippy! Congratulations Mitanox! http://ianxz6z= efk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/user/19745
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on June 28, 2011, 11:50 am<= /strong>: in my opinion, seller accounts should be bought for an expensive amount= (over a grand) ,and once they have proven themselves,they should be re-imb= ursed.that is the best way forward(IN MY OPINION)....well maybe not a grand= ,but 500 bucks at least..or maybe seller accounts should just be bought wit= hout re-imbursement....500 dollars a pop for a seller account....which is= peanuts for a drug dealer but alot for a scammer....make this place a bit= more upper class.lol

buyers should only be allowed escrow on there= 2nd go with a verified supplier...but escrow compulsory for all new seller= s from the 1st go...that will protect old time sellers/verified sellers fro= m people that just want to get goods without paying...

so basically;=

verified sellers-buyers entitled to escrow on second purchase onwar= ds
new sellers-buyers entitled to escrow on first purchase onwards
so new sellers will be most at risk of getting scammed but that will soon= subside once they have good feedback and get some rep behind them and move= onto the verified seller status
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: KarlM15 on June 28, 2011, 12:11 pm: Quote fro= m: rake on June 27, 2011, 01:44 am
It doesn't have much weight but being able to refer some ve= ndors would be good.=C2=A0 I've run into a few who are trying to do the rig= ht thing by buyers but are stymied by the lack of seller accounts.
+1
I was "referred" to SR before the publicity by another seller. I th= ink that has always proved to be the best solution where trust is required.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: trance9 on June 28, 2011, 11:06 pm: How much did the first auction go for?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: trippy on June 29, 2011, 05:15 pm: Quote fro= m: ChronicallyMedicated on June 28, 2011, 06:20 am
@Greenhamster: If anyone is being unprofess= ional, it is you.=C2=A0 There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with the pol= icy and suggesting an alternative, but whining and complaining isn't produc= tive

This.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: TheFrostyMountains on June 30, 2011,= 07:13 am: This will do nothing to stop scammers . It will create a false sense of= security while penalizing legitimate sellers . Besides, who wants to pay= $85 for a sellers account ? I think I see alterior motives at work here .= =20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: k1ngk0ng on June 30, 2011, 07:17 am: @TheFrostyMountains: "I think I see alterior motives at work here . "= do you care to elaborate ?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: TheFrostyMountains on June 30, 2011,= 07:18 am: Yeah, King, I mean to say that SR is trying to cash in on sellers accou= nts . It has nothing to do with keeping scammers out .
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: zapco on June 30, 2011, 08:32 am: How much did the highest bidder pay?=C2=A0 Anyone?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: mracid on June 30, 2011, 09:13 am: Im currently the highest bidder for the account. I agree that this isnt= an ideal situation for new sellers, but if you are a genuine seller, this= isnt alot of money to pay.
yet to see a plausible alternative=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on June 30, 2011, 09:= 22 am: I'm already a seller on another account, but I just want to chime in an= d say I could not disagree with this new policy more.=C2=A0 This is a TERRI= BLE, TERRIBLE idea.

1.=C2=A0 It's not going to keep out law enforcem= ent posing as sellers.

2.=C2=A0 It's not going to keep out scammers.= =C2=A0 It might deter a few small-time scammers, but that's it.

3.= =C2=A0 This is going to cause the extinction of small-time sellers and nich= e products on Silk Road.=C2=A0

This is a BIG DEAL.=C2=A0 Somebody= above suggested $1000 to buy a seller account.=C2=A0 Are you out of your= mind?=C2=A0 Not ever seller on here makes that kind of money.=C2=A0 US-ava= ilable LSD, for example, is already an endangered species and the people se= lling it clearly aren't making a fortune on it.=C2=A0 Well, you can forget= about small quantities of LSD becoming more and more available on here if= this policy stands, because new small quantity LSD-sellers are NOT going= to be able to sell her.

And what about the guy who has a small quan= tity of small hard-to-find drug and wants to sell it on here?=C2=A0 Guess= what?=C2=A0 That's not going to happen now either.

I thought we try= ing to start a revolution here, people.=C2=A0 Free market drug capitalism.<= br>
This isn't capitalism, it's elitism, and it's going to seriously ret= ard the growth of our community here.

Please don't do this shit, Sil= k Road.=C2=A0 Just let the seller accounts be free again.
Title: Introduction
Post by: ExpertGrowNL on June 30, 2011, 11:22= am: Hey Folks, ;)

Here's the link to our new profile.

http://= ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/user/20851

If you have any= questions=C2=A0 PM us a message.

We are going to sell Weed , Clones= and Seeds.

Our encryption key will be published soon.

Greeti= ngs

ExpertGrowNL

PS:=C2=A0 The auction system seems to have= bugs and i would like to discuss this here in public when i can't get an= explanation from SR
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on June 30, 2011, 11:57 am<= /strong>: Quote fro= m: Colonel Sanders on June 30, 2011, 09:22 am

This is a BIG DEAL.=C2=A0 Somebody above= suggested $1000 to buy a seller account.=C2=A0 Are you out of your mind?= =C2=A0 Not ever seller on here makes that kind of money.
<= div class=3D"quotefooter">

oka= y a grand is a bit much,but selling accounts for 500 bucks a pop will see= the end of scamming...because a scammer will have to make that money back= before he can profit from his scamming.would you not like that?500 bucks= is not alot of money pal,not when youre slinging dope.. and as for a perso= n coming along with a tiny bit of a special something he wants to flog on= a one time basis,fek off with that,has he not god buddies to give that shi= t to?or maybe save it for a rainy day?far more people will buy drugs off he= re if they know the person has paid a premium to be here....

or the= 500$ could just be a deposit,which will be returned to the seller when he= packs in his business or when he has proven himself.this sounds a better= idea actually.

as for sellers protection, just using common sense= by sending out small orders to new customers and building it up as time go= es by.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on June 30, 2011, 12:06 pm<= /strong>: Quote fro= m: Colonel Sanders on June 30, 2011, 09:22 am

3.=C2=A0 This is going to cause the extincti= on of small-time sellers and niche products on Silk Road.=C2=A0

thank fucking god,extortionate wankers
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on June 30, 2011, 02:= 06 pm: =C2=A0::) Sellers can't scam here unless people go outside the escrow= system.=C2=A0 If buyers do that and get scammed, it's their own damn fault= .

Silk Road, please re-think this policy.=C2=A0

This is goin= g to prevent any small-time buyers from coming here and listing at Silk Roa= d.=C2=A0 And unlike what redrocket insists, there is absolutely no reason= small-time sellers would be more expensive than big-time sellers.=C2=A0 Ma= ny small-time sellers are just looking to get enough Bitcoin to buy some pr= oduct for personal use that they can't get locally.

In point of fact= , this will give the big time sellers a monopoly here and they'll be able= to raise their prices because no small time buyers will be able to get sel= ler accounts and compete.

This is a MISTAKE and counter to what you= have stated this site started for.

And any of you guys hoping for= a new US LSD vendor that sells 4 or 5 hit quantities, you can forget that= if this policy stays in place.=C2=A0 You can forget about a lot of product= s that we all hoped were coming if this stays.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on June 30, 2011, 03:57 pm<= /strong>: im sticking what i wrote in this thread as this is the main thread abou= t seller accounts.my point overrides all comments on here and i would like= admin to continue auctioning off accounts because of my following theory.i= f anyone still objects after reading this quote,then speak now or forever= hold your peace.lol...

""""this is far beyond your brain can compr= ehend pal. look at it from this view: hundreds of sellers selling goods=3Df= ucking chaos. keep the numbers regulated and its far easier to deal with.ea= sier to suss out the best guys,easier to suss out the dodgy guys...i think= its an okay system....better than just allowing anyone to sell....this pla= ce would be FLOODED with pathetic threads if it was reverted.so if you look= at it as a contribution to law and order, this should not be a problem..80= bucks???pffttt...get the fuck out your own thread

and plus,how can= you complain as a seller??thats less competition and more money for you"""= """"
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on June 30, 2011, 04:58 pm<= /strong>: ^ Seconded.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Mitanox on June 30, 2011, 11:16 pm: Personally I payed 4.8 btc for my seller account in auction. I didnt th= ink it was much. The maximum I would have payed would have been 500 euro.= With the recent surge of new members there are alot of potential buyers su= ddenly added to my circle. After 3 days I already have 59 btc in my account= (not all profit and still in escrow but still).

I think that if yo= u have small quantities to sell youre better of selling it to your irl frie= nds. If you have alot of dope laying around you might as well invest a bit= since youve done that to get that much dope anyways.

-Mitanox
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: BitShuffle on June 30, 2011, 11:25 pm=: I prefer the chaos.=C2=A0 "Seller accounts" sounds a bit too corporate= to me.

Tor and Bitcoin and Silk Road is the wild west.

The= world will quickly learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 01, 2011, 12:= 54 am: redrocket, by your own admission, you're a noob here.=C2=A0 If everyone= , including Silk Road, had had your kind of attitude about making this plac= e oh-so-exclusive and keeping out the "riffraff," you never would've even= found this place post-Gawker.=C2=A0 I love that now that you found this pl= ace thanks to the growth and publicity that you're so vehement about closin= g it up as your private clubhouse or something.

And seriously?=C2=A0= If you can't post without childishly insulting someone...

I repeat= again that this new auction policy is a MISTAKE.

There are many, ma= ny quality small-scale sellers here, myself included, who sell products tha= t can't be had in large quantities.=C2=A0 Some hard-to-find products will= NEVER be available in large quantities by any seller.=C2=A0 This auction= stuff is going to prevent those products from ever coming to market.
Let the market and the goddamn rating system sort out the good sellers fr= om the bad.=C2=A0 The escrow system already completely eliminates seller sc= amming, so the argument that this place is going to turn into Topix is comp= lete bullshit and nothing more than a scare tactic.

This isn't going= to lead to more quality for the buyers or better prices.=C2=A0 It's going= to lead to product droughts and sellers having monopolies over certain pro= ducts.

This is a MISTAKE.

If you care about getting about get= ting US LSD vendors, you need to speak out against this auction stuff!
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 01, 2011, 01:= 16 am: And just to clarify, even simply SELLING the seller accounts would be= better than this auction system (although I don't support that either for= the same reasons).=C2=A0 But at least with that the seller accounts would= be available and (hopefully) reasonably priced for new sellers to be able= to jump in without having to pay a premium auction price or having to wait= around and hope they land an account.

This auction thing just shuts= the door in their faces.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: g4bb3r on July 01, 2011, 01:28 am: I greatly disagree with this. If it was like this when I got here, I wo= uld have never got a start as a seller here. It should be an open marketpla= ce, let the consumers sort out the good/bad sellers naturally by their serv= ice and product.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Kind Bud on July 01, 2011, 04:13 am: with utmost respect to g4bb3r, I think things have changed. A small num= ber of idiots can ruin it for the rest of us.

Small time and casual= sellers are awesome. The problem is that it is hard to tell legitimate sma= ll timers from flakes and scammers.=C2=A0 Maybe in the future Silk Road cou= ld have a per item price to allow for this. The point is that Silk Road has= issues with big promises and less than stellar follow though. I do not wan= t to see a few big sellers muscle out legitimate small timers. Even worse= though is unreliable or untested people ruining the taste of Silk Road for= new and potential buyers. Putting up $100 bucks to say "I believe in mysel= f" is really not a lot to ask. Make it a refundable deposit based on good= feedback if you want (thought the shill feedback system would have to be= looked at).
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 01, 2011, 04:= 15 am: I just don't understand some of you guys at all.

The government= says it knows best and that its people should be limited and restricted fr= om buying and selling drugs.

So, Silk Road creates this place where= we can all buy and sell drugs.

And what's the first thing some of= you guys want (just as soon as YOU get access to this place, of course):= =C2=A0 You come up with "reasons" why we need to limit and restrict who can= buy and sell drugs here.

Nobody sees the irony and hypocrisy there?= =C2=A0 It'd be comical if it wasn't so goddamn sad.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 01, 2011, 04:= 20 am: >A small number of idiots can ruin it for the rest of us.=C2=A0 The= problem is that it is hard to tell legitimate small timers from flakes and= scammers.

King Bud, like I said in the other thread, how can the "f= lakes and scammers" ruin this for us?

A seller cannot scam a buyer= here as long as the buyer stays within the escrow system and tests their= product before finalizing their order.=C2=A0 And then they'll negative fee= dback warning everyone else away on top of that.

We've already got= everything we need here to let the market sort itself.=C2=A0 There may be= a point where the amount of sellers here becomes unmanageable, but we're= not even close to that yet.=C2=A0 We need MORE sellers, not less.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Whistler on July 01, 2011, 04:24 am: Hi Everyone.

=C2=A0I'm new here, obviously... I just heard abou= t SR today, and sought it out. How marvelous. I feel like this is Diagon Al= ley in Harry Potter... OK, I'm actually older than 30, so don't go thinking= I'm some knucklehead teen. Anyway, I wanted to comment about this new auct= ion to upgrade to a seller account.

=C2=A0As I see it, there are sev= eral issues that are trying to be dealt with here.
1) trying to keep the= quality of goods for sale high, as opposed to having many sellers who are= pushing junk or worthless items, so as to attract more buyers because the= quality of the market here is high.
2) preventing a rapid surge of sel= lers who flood the market, creating 'chaos' for buyers, increasing competit= ion for sellers, driving down profit margins, which could discourage other= sellers from competing, and making it more difficult for buyers to ascerta= in who are 'good' sellers since many of them may have little or no feedback= .
3) encouraging sellers who would sell on SR for a while, as opposed= to the one-off seller who is here today, gone tomorrow, and contributes li= ttle to the community.

I do not think that this should have any bea= ring on trying to weed-out bogus sellers who are looking to con someone, fr= om the legitimate sellers honestly looking to do business, because the buye= rs are already protected by the escrow system. It would not be in the selle= r's best interest to try to pull a fast one regardless of whether they have= paid to upgrade their account or whether they upgraded it for free.
First, lets deal with the first point. I think that it is important that= the goods sold on SR be of a caliber that would attract people to shop her= e. If a high percentage of the items for sale are believed to be low value,= questionable quality, or "junk" items, it will not be in the buyer's inter= est to sift through the listings to find the few unique, rare, or high qual= ity items available. I think that having a system in place, such as paying= to upgrade your account to sell, would do well to keep the quality of good= s on SR high, which is in the buyer's best interests, as well as the intere= st of the seller's who offer these quality, or difficult to obtain items.
Second point: The fact that only one new seller is accepted every 24= hours means the community will grow slowly, and not spike with fly-by-nigh= t sellers who may not be around to help SR grow in a month or two. I think= this is a good thing. But it also means that a potential seller might have= to wait several days to become a seller, which makes it more difficult to= become part of this system. So in addition to the 'auction' method for a= seller membership every 48 hours, I think it was a good idea to also have= the ability to just 'buy' a seller licensed account outright. I think that= the fact that you have to purchase the account upgrade will limit the grow= th of sellers enough that there will not be a rapid influx of short-term se= llers.

Now, about the last point. I think that while SR is still in= its infancy, it would be better to have committed sellers who build a good= reputation here over several transactions, rather than many sellers with= few transactions who perhaps have a brief history here before they disappe= ar. To encourage that, I see how having a monetary contribution would mean= that a seller would have to conduct several transactions to make back thei= r investment, encouraging long-term relationships.

But I think we'd= all agree it would be nice to see SR have MORE goods, not less, with MORE= variety and diversity, be it from sellers in different locations around th= e globe, or in type of goods, or in quality of goods, or whatever. In order= for that to happen, there needs to be MORE sellers. And I think that stric= tly speaking, the fact that one has to pay-to-play, so to speak, will turn= away a certain number of possible sellers just for the fact that you are= starting off at a loss before you even get going.

So let me introd= uce a twist to the idea, and tell me what you think... the money you spend= to upgrade your account is refunded. It could be a nominal refund, on a pe= r-transaction basis. For every satisfactory transaction, 1 BTC or 0.5 BTC= (whatever) is refunded. It could be that 100% of the original investment= is refunded, or it could be that only part of the total investment will be= refunded. That I'll leave up to the accountants of SR to decide how much= profit margin they wish to keep. :o)

The point is, it wouldn't seem= so negative to pitch in 10 BTC to become a seller, if you thought that you= would have some of that cost returned to you after each successful transac= tion (regardless of your profit margin). This would a) set up a good seller= habits for new sellers, who are seeking satisfactory feedback on transacti= ons to earn back their investment, and b) encourage longer term sellers if= they realized that they would need to sell at least X amount of items to= recoup their original investment cost. This would discourage people from= signing up for seller accounts if they only wish to sell one or two items.= This would also increase the average feedback of any given seller, since= they would seek to stick around selling at least for enough transactions= to recoup as much of their original investment as they could. And of cours= e, that is better for buyers, because then a buyer would have more informat= ion to use to choose reputable sellers.

Something to think about.=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 01, 2011, 04:= 36 am: In regards to what you said Whistler, I don't see a problem with people= being able to pay (whether outright or at auction) to have some kind of Se= ller Plus account or something that gives them a little star next to their= name (or whatever) and a little extra credibility.

But regular sell= er accounts should be free.=C2=A0 Anything else is going to cause lots of= problems.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: deadlyhoess69 on July 01, 2011, 05:19= am: I too prefer the chaos, all the chaos and anarchy at the beginning of= silk roads is what made me become more interested in it. with all these ne= w "rules" this place is no more a good example of agorism than any legal ma= rketplace or corporation, only difference is you can acquire "black market"= goods here which people seem to think makes this place "innovative" and "c= utting edge". at first i thought this was an honest attempt at online agori= sm, something like an unregulated flea market, and that anything was going= to be allowed to be sold here tax free whether its against someone's moral= s here or not, and naturally drugs just became the major product in the mar= ketplace. and by the way it was easy being able to sort all the scammers fr= om the real deal just by reading some of their profile and talking to them.= but sadly now this has just become a regular, regulated, marketplace just= like that that can be found in the rest of mainstream society, only you ca= n buy recreational drugs here, of which they seem to be becoming the mainst= ream now anyway. i'm sure by the time our generation is running most of the= planet drugs will of become legal by then and silk roads will be the new= ebay. just my 2 cents here :)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Dread on July 01, 2011, 05:48 am: Quote fro= m: deadlyhoess69 on July 01, 2011, 05:19 am
I too prefer the chaos, all the chaos and anarchy= at the beginning of silk roads is what made me become more interested in= it. with all these new "rules" this place is no more a good example of ago= rism than any legal marketplace or corporation, only difference is you can= acquire "black market" goods here which people seem to think makes this pl= ace "innovative" and "cutting edge". at first i thought this was an honest= attempt at online agorism, something like an unregulated flea market, and= that anything was going to be allowed to be sold here tax free whether its= against someone's morals here or not, and naturally drugs just became the= major product in the marketplace. and by the way it was easy being able to= sort all the scammers from the real deal just by reading some of their pro= file and talking to them. but sadly now this has just become a regular, reg= ulated, marketplace just like that that can be found in the rest of mainstr= eam society, only you can buy recreational drugs here, of which they seem= to be becoming the mainstream now anyway. i'm sure by the time our generat= ion is running most of the planet drugs will of become legal by then and si= lk roads will be the new ebay. just my 2 cents here :)
Surely you= can understand that Silk Road's attempting to protect the buyer and seller= while still trying to keep this place up and running.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 01, 2011, 05:= 54 am: >Surely you can understand that Silk Road's attempting to protect th= e buyer and seller while still trying to keep this place up and running.
But it's NOT going to accomplish that.=C2=A0 The escrow system already= fully protects buyers.

AT BEST, this might discourage a few lacklus= ter sellers, but it will also, at the same time, discourage legitimate smal= l sellers, drive down diversity of products in the marketplace, encourage= monopolies of big sellers, inflate prices, kill competition, etc.

T= he negative of this so far outweighs any potential positive.=C2=A0 It's a= BAD idea.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: g4bb3r on July 01, 2011, 07:38 am: The buyer is already protected in the current system with the escrow.= The buyer will lose the opportunity to choose from a variety of sellers wi= th this new auction system because it discourages small-time sellers (like= myself) from starting out if they're forced to pay $100 or so to even star= t selling here. The ONLY PERSON who benefits from this new scheme is SR him= self, as he'll be making probably close to $100 per day.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: pscr13 on July 01, 2011, 08:10 am: I still propose;

a picture of product with a piece of paper with= date and username in the shot as well

and if there has to be this= 'seller account system' make it a flat fee NO MORE than $25-50, that is a= DEPOSIT (1-2mth term).

-picture proof of seller product
-seller= account probationary period using a deposit

I doubt the voice of th= e majority will be heard, money is a great motivation.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: manemo on July 01, 2011, 12:34 pm: My primary worry about this is that law enforcement have an unlimited= budget to spend buying up all of the new seller accounts. Law enforcement= HAVE spent TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars buying opiates from SINGLE (insecu= re) vendors prior to busting them. Dropping a hundred grand on monopolozing= the new seller accounts is not out of the question for them. And I worry= that although this system will combat scammers, it also puts a dollar valu= e on law enforcement being the only ones with new seller accounts. And that= is a price they are probably willing to pay if it results in SR turning in= to a massive reverse sting honeypot with no real vendors selling on it anym= ore. It could turn SR into a massive intelligence asset for the feds, and= intelligence assets of that high a strategic importance are easily worth= some big bucks to agencies with unlimited money (that they take from you= via taxes, woot! Don't you just love being forced to pay for your own oppr= ession?)

I don't think SR is selling out, and in theory this is a go= od method to combat scammers, but in practice I think it is more or less eq= ual to offering the site to the feds if the price is right.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: SR_Seller_Accounts on July 01, 2011,= 12:55 pm: speaking of seller accounts ...

I have TWO SR seller accounts le= ft for sale.

PM me with your reasonable offer.

Also included= is a set of login credentials for an exact duplicate username on these for= ums.

The SR auction is past 7 BTCs already, and has a new "Buy-It-No= w" link for 15.25 BTCs.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: someguy on July 01, 2011, 02:11 pm: I also have an account for sale. Generic username. Send me an offer...= you could be selling in a couple hours!
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: trippy on July 01, 2011, 02:50 pm: I don't see why everybody's arguing about LE and scammers. SR never sai= d this new system will keep out LE. He never said it will keep out scammers= . It's just a money grab on his part. So if you're trying to point out the= new system won't do that, don't bother, he already knows. And if you think= it would be better for it to be refundable, he disagrees for obvious reaso= ns.

That said I think the site would be better if sellers didn't hav= e to pay for seller accounts.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: ganego on July 01, 2011, 03:57 pm: Money grab is fine and actually perfectly in line with Agorism consider= ing nobody is forced to sell or buy here. However, I wish he would do his= money grab in a way that isn't likely to result in the feds buying every= new seller account. Selling out to the state is not compatible with Agoris= m, and I don't think that is what SR intends to do, but I do think that wil= l be the end result. I suggest instead that you charge a % of each sale, an= d allow vendors to load an account that let's them cover the cost or the bu= yer cover the cost, or some combination. If you want to combat scammers, yo= u should split sellers into ranks based on when they joined and their post= counts and then make the ranks scarce by not letting new people trivially= obtain them, then prune the ranks of scammers. This will result in scammer= to legit ratio decreasing over time in favor of legit, but does not open= up the very serious potential of law enforcement to legit ratio increased= toward law enforcement over time.=C2=A0 Silk roads best strategy is certai= nly to let anyone sell. It still favors law enforcement and scammers who ca= n make a shit ton of malicious accounts for everyone who is legitimate, but= at least it doesn't lock out legitimate people and open the door for law= enforcement if they are willing to pay the price. Also, by splitting the= members into ranks based on their join date and current reviews, you could= probably limit law enforcement and scammers even more so, particularly if= law enforcement did not start mass registration of accounts prior to the= Gawker rush. Accounts should indeed be scarce commodities, however it is= imo foolish to make the qualifier financial superiority, because this will= certainly tilt things towards law enforcement rather than combating them.= =20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 01, 2011= , 07:02 pm: Hey gang,
So it looks like charging for seller accounts is pretty co= ntroversial.=C2=A0 Here's what happened and why we're doing this.=C2=A0 Ple= ase read and give your input.

We received a threat from a very distu= rbed individual who said they would pose as a legitimate vendor, but send= carcinogenic and poisonous substances instead of real products and because= seller registration is open, they would just create a new account as soon= as they got bad feedback.=C2=A0 This was shocking and horrifying to us and= we immediately closed new seller registration.=C2=A0 Of course we need new= sellers, though, so we figured that charging for new seller accounts would= deter this kind of behavior.=C2=A0 To be honest, we are all for open selle= r registration as we have been all along, but have to guard against a threa= t like this being carried out.

What should we do?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: trance9 on July 01, 2011, 07:28 pm: Quote fro= m: Silk Road on July 01, 2011, 07:02 pm
What should we do?

Require 2 valid forms= of ID?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: avatar123 on July 01, 2011, 07:35 pm<= /strong>: Quote fro= m: Silk Road on July 01, 2011, 07:02 pm
Hey gang,
So it looks like charging for seller acco= unts is pretty controversial.=C2=A0 Here's what happened and why we're doin= g this.=C2=A0 Please read and give your input.

We received a threat= from a very disturbed individual who said they would pose as a legitimate= vendor, but send carcinogenic and poisonous substances instead of real pro= ducts and because seller registration is open, they would just create a new= account as soon as they got bad feedback.=C2=A0 This was shocking and horr= ifying to us and we immediately closed new seller registration.=C2=A0 Of co= urse we need new sellers, though, so we figured that charging for new selle= r accounts would deter this kind of behavior.=C2=A0 To be honest, we are al= l for open seller registration as we have been all along, but have to guard= against a threat like this being carried out.

What should we do?

If he is an serious threat, he will buy the account, and he wil= l do it.

Contract some hackers, find him, cyberbully him, make an= SR hacker army with the money you will steal from him , start stealing cas= h from=C2=A0 credit companies, give free LSD and weed to all SR members, ma= ke SR a better place, recieve blessings from god.

No, im joking, sil= k you cant stop something like this from happening, you can make obstacles= like you did. And as long the seller account has a reasonable price its ok= , in fact (my opinion) it make SR safer.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: lvlbrained on July 01, 2011, 08:02 pm=: maybe a probationary seller rank could work. i dont know. i think this= points out the need for test kits being sold on this site. maybe someone= can get on that
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Bud on July 01, 2011, 08:40 pm: I think this will be a good thing. You can't really trust a seller base= d on feedback anymore as anyone can set up accounts to buy their own produc= t and build up a rating. At least it will hopefully keep most or the small= time scammers away.=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: uaneuo on July 01, 2011, 08:55 pm: Quote fro= m: Silk Road on July 01, 2011, 07:02 pm
Hey gang,
So it looks like charging for seller acco= unts is pretty controversial.=C2=A0 Here's what happened and why we're doin= g this.=C2=A0 Please read and give your input.

We received a threat= from a very disturbed individual who said they would pose as a legitimate= vendor, but send carcinogenic and poisonous substances instead of real pro= ducts and because seller registration is open, they would just create a new= account as soon as they got bad feedback.=C2=A0 This was shocking and horr= ifying to us and we immediately closed new seller registration.=C2=A0 Of co= urse we need new sellers, though, so we figured that charging for new selle= r accounts would deter this kind of behavior.=C2=A0 To be honest, we are al= l for open seller registration as we have been all along, but have to guard= against a threat like this being carried out.

What should we do?

It is most likely just a troll. Second most likely is that it= is law enforcement PSYOP trying to get you to close registration. Third mo= st likely it is actually a crazy person or maybe an anti-drug extremist who= thinks drugs are already poison so who cares if they cut them with poison.= The third threat is pretty serious, but making accounts costly wont preven= t a determined extremist. Test kits are helpful but they are actually not= likely to be enough to detect low dose poisons. To really combat this drug= s need to be GC/MS tested at least, NMR is another option. Unfortunately mo= st people don't have access to this sort of analytical equipment, and it is= n't very safe to have a go to guy who gets products from every single vendo= r to verify their quality. There are testing services in the Netherlands an= d a few other places that do advanced analytical testing for free + take an= onymous samples. Obviously the person selling product can not post the resu= lts themselves or they will just post fakes, but you could have a sub-forum= for buyers who get product to post the test results if they choose to send= in samples for testing themselves. Unfortunately, even the testing centers= in Netherlands require you to actually ship the sample to be tested from= Netherlands, and then there is the issue of 'we can't have a dude in the= netherlands who gets drugs from a fuck load of people to send in for testi= ng, or else he will end up getting busted' again.=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 01, 2011, 09:= 40 pm: Quote fro= m: Silk Road on July 01, 2011, 07:02 pm
We received a threat from a very disturbed individual= who said they would pose as a legitimate vendor, but send carcinogenic and= poisonous substances instead of real products and because seller registrat= ion is open

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

Silk, I apologize= for ever questioning you.=C2=A0 I could not for the life of me understand= why you instituted the auction system, but something like this never would= 've occurred to me in a million years.

Hopefully there can still be= another way besides the auction system, but considering that information= you won't hear any bitching from me if you have to leave it in place.
<= br>Fucking crazy.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Roger67 on July 01, 2011, 09:54 pm: Quote
So let me introduce a twist to= the idea, and tell me what you think... the money you spend to upgrade you= r account is refunded. It could be a nominal refund, on a per-transaction= basis. For every satisfactory transaction, 1 BTC or 0.5 BTC (whatever) is= refunded. It could be that 100% of the original investment is refunded, or= it could be that only part of the total investment will be refunded. That= I'll leave up to the accountants of SR to decide how much profit margin th= ey wish to keep. :o)

The point is, it wouldn't seem so negative to= pitch in 10 BTC to become a seller, if you thought that you would have som= e of that cost returned to you after each successful transaction (regardles= s of your profit margin). This would a) set up a good seller habits for new= sellers, who are seeking satisfactory feedback on transactions to earn bac= k their investment, and b) encourage longer term sellers if they realized= that they would need to sell at least X amount of items to recoup their or= iginal investment cost. This would discourage people from signing up for se= ller accounts if they only wish to sell one or two items. This would also= increase the average feedback of any given seller, since they would seek= to stick around selling at least for enough transactions to recoup as much= of their original investment as they could. And of course, that is better= for buyers, because then a buyer would have more information to use to cho= ose reputable sellers.
whistler - interesting idea. i also think it= will help to attarct more serious sellers.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Dread Pirate Roberts on July 02, 2011= , 12:50 am: Quote fro= m: Roger67 on July 01, 2011, 09:54 pm
Quote
So let me intro= duce a twist to the idea, and tell me what you think... the money you spend= to upgrade your account is refunded. It could be a nominal refund, on a pe= r-transaction basis. For every satisfactory transaction, 1 BTC or 0.5 BTC= (whatever) is refunded. It could be that 100% of the original investment= is refunded, or it could be that only part of the total investment will be= refunded. That I'll leave up to the accountants of SR to decide how much= profit margin they wish to keep. :o)

The point is, it wouldn't seem= so negative to pitch in 10 BTC to become a seller, if you thought that you= would have some of that cost returned to you after each successful transac= tion (regardless of your profit margin). This would a) set up a good seller= habits for new sellers, who are seeking satisfactory feedback on transacti= ons to earn back their investment, and b) encourage longer term sellers if= they realized that they would need to sell at least X amount of items to= recoup their original investment cost. This would discourage people from= signing up for seller accounts if they only wish to sell one or two items.= This would also increase the average feedback of any given seller, since= they would seek to stick around selling at least for enough transactions= to recoup as much of their original investment as they could. And of cours= e, that is better for buyers, because then a buyer would have more informat= ion to use to choose reputable sellers.
whistler - interesting idea.= i also think it will help to attarct more serious sellers.

t= his is a pretty good idea.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: lvlbrained on July 02, 2011, 02:26 am=: only problem is people will have a financial reason to cheat feedback
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: j789745 on July 02, 2011, 06:59 am: >>>only problem is people will have a financial reason to chea= t feedback

theres already financial reason to cheat feedback, but it= s usually easy an quick to spot phony feedback
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: mracid on July 02, 2011, 10:19 am: I like this idea...=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: trippy on July 02, 2011, 12:08 pm: Since the bromo-dragonfly mixup http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_d= ragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death.shtml I hope everybody here is aware that re= search chemicals should be tested at doses below the active dose and slowly= increased to ensure the product is OK.

Perhaps SR's first move shou= ld have been to recommend people do this for all drugs on the site. Even if= the attacker is credible (which I believe he is not), surely he wouldn't= proceed with his plan once people were aware what could happen.

SR,= could you go back and PGP clearsign your last two messages in this thread?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anonymous1979 on July 03, 2011, 05:38= am: I'm dirt poor and the only thing I want to sell on here is my art. Kind= a sucks that some terrorist douchefag has to go ahead and ruin that for me= by employing scare tactics when if he had any real agenda to do so he'd ha= ve bought the account anyways. Not to mention why warn people in advance?
And doesn't your notifying us about this kind of scenario reinforce= the repping system as a clear indicator as to whom to buy from and whom no= t to buy from? I applaud the transparency of your actions, SR; you had a si= tuation arise, you dealt with it as best you saw possible and you openly ex= plained the reasoning behind it. It doesn't matter if anyone agrees with yo= u, just that they know why. Info always remains power and sharing it is a= benevolence. Cheers, keep it up.

... please let me sell my art.= else i'm hooped. :(

edit: especially since the only listing otherw= ise is an admitted shitty drawer. i mean, the fuck?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Rubberband Man on July 03, 2011, 05:5= 0 am: $150 USD for a seller account is entirely reasonable.=C2=A0 Auctioning= seller accounts is a bad idea from everyone's standpoint.=C2=A0 All the ne= w seller accounts would be going to people dealing in hard drugs and higher= quantities.=C2=A0 This would completely cut out marijuana distributors.=C2= =A0 And eventually when the prices for seller accounts become low enough fo= r marijuana sellers to enter the market, these type of sellers are going to= be selling in quantity.=C2=A0 People (such as myself) new to Silk Road don= 't want to buy in quantity.=C2=A0 We just want a taste.=C2=A0 We just want= to get our feet wet.=C2=A0 Newbies won't be comfortable dropping $110 on= a quarter from some anonymous person.=C2=A0 So from this standpoint, you= are boxing out the buyers and sellers.

It should be noted that ther= e is a severe shortage of variety in marijuana that can be gotten from US= based merchants.=C2=A0 Especially for those who just want to buy a couple= of grams.=C2=A0 For this reason you should not limit yourselves to one new= merchant per day.=C2=A0 I'm not saying you have to open the floodgates, bu= t I'm suggesting something more measured.=C2=A0

I was expecting thi= s thread to on and on with peoples grievances with the proposed auction sys= tem.=C2=A0 But Silk Road not only did you come in and address those concern= s directly, you appealed to us to find a solution.=C2=A0 That shows strong= leadership and the people here place a high amount of value in being liste= ned to.=C2=A0 We all have high hopes and expectations for this marketplace= and when we hear things like "auction system" and "limit 1 per day" our ho= pes are quickly dashed.=C2=A0 When I first read about it, I thought, "ok,= the person(s) who operate this site think they've reached it's potential= and want to start milking this for what it's worth."=C2=A0 Then I read abo= ut how some crazy guy made threats.=C2=A0 To go to the extreme of having an= auction system and a limit of 1 per day made me think you were just using= this nutjobs email as an excuse to milk.=C2=A0 Time will tell.=C2=A0
<= br>$50 alone would be enough to deter scammers by my estimate.=C2=A0 But fo= r such an illegal operation, a 5% middleman cut doesn't quite do you justic= e.=C2=A0 I have no problem paying $150 (If I ever decide to sell weed.=C2= =A0 No plans as of yet).=C2=A0 This website deserves it and will improve it= 's integrity.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Rubberband Man on July 03, 2011, 06:0= 2 am: Quote fro= m: Rubberband Man on July 03, 2011, 05:50 am
I'm dirt poor and the only thing I want to sell= on here is my art. Kinda sucks that some terrorist douchefag has to go ahe= ad and ruin that for me by employing scare tactics when if he had any real= agenda to do so he'd have bought the account anyways. Not to mention why= warn people in advance?

And doesn't your notifying us about this ki= nd of scenario reinforce the repping system as a clear indicator as to whom= to buy from and whom not to buy from? I applaud the transparency of your= actions, SR; you had a situation arise, you dealt with it as best you saw= possible and you openly explained the reasoning behind it. It doesn't matt= er if anyone agrees with you, just that they know why. Info always remains= power and sharing it is a benevolence. Cheers, keep it up.

...= please let me sell my art. else i'm hooped. :(

edit: especially sin= ce the only listing otherwise is an admitted shitty drawer. i mean, the fuc= k?

Ebay=C2=A0 ::)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Wreck on July 03, 2011, 05:28 pm: So you claim someone told you they would post poisonous substances, ok= so lets deal with this stupid justification. If a person wanted to do this= we have to understand why.

1. They're an anti-drug extremist
2.= They're law enforcement trying to shut down open registration
3. They'r= e just nuts

In the first instance you won't stop an extremist by cha= rging cash, they'll make enough money to do it anyway. Secondly law enforce= ment wouldn't send poisons but could always buy every account anyway to tra= ck customers, third the nuts person will also find the money to carry out= such a plan.

Basically your justification is a lame one, and i hav= e no doubt it's made up.

You also still have not figured out a way= to protect SELLERS! Sellers take big risks being scammed for quality produ= ct. Maybe make buyers pay for accounts huh.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 03, 2011, 09:34 pm<= /strong>: Buyer rating system, and show how many disputes a buyer has had in last= 30, 90, and 180 days.=C2=A0 This will raise a ton of red flags immediately= for the little parasites trying to get our product for nothing, and will= only make the good buyers that much better.=C2=A0 Don't even have the rati= ng system link to an item or anything, just a 1-5 with a small text blurb= about how the buyer was to deal with.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: akjfhasfdk on July 04, 2011, 11:19 am=: It's definitely a PSYOP. If I were you I wouldn't have even mentioned= it since that is exactly what they intended. Remember that bitcoin has the= potential to be seriously disruptive to the power's that be and they will= do what they can to fuck with it. Couple that with the power you have over= the exchange rate (you saw the gawker spike - shit, silk road is probably= the only real backing bitcoin has atm) and it's really not surprising that= they're trying to discourage users.

I don't think charging for acco= unts will help regardless of whether the threat is legitimate. Anyone who= was actually determined to kill would not be dissuaded from that just beca= use they get charged to do it. Law enforcement would also have no problem= paying for an account. It will however deter genuine business from small= sellers. The time it would take to start making a profit by selling my pre= scriptions just wouldn't be worth it imo. And I especially wouldn't want to= pay knowing that such a terrible idea can't last.

Whistler's idea= is a stroke of genius though. I'd have no problem paying a retainer to be= used as collateral until I have a reputation that can speak for itself. As= for monetizing the service you provide, just take a slice of each sale and= call it a transaction fee.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anonymous1979 on July 05, 2011, 03:19= am: Quote fro= m: Rubberband Man on July 03, 2011, 06:02 am

Ebay=C2=A0 ::)

I'm already on= there.

You missed my point entirely. As a Canadian with only CAD av= ailable I'm subject to outrageous exchanges from CAD to USD before being tu= rned into LR, then changed to BTC. Even with the CAD being higher value tha= n the USD, my 440$ CAD bought me 330$ USD, which I purchased my BTC @ 20$= at, which has since obviously dropped to 13$. Granted, the BTC drop was ju= st something that comes with the territory, but imagine how thrilled you'd= be at the prospect of your every BTC purchase being at retardedly inflated= prices that took a chunk out of your every transfer. Just so that my 440$= CAD can buy me 210$USD worth of coke. No offense to anyone but the America= n buck can still keep going on fucking itself, not my dollar.

If you= pointed out to me a Mt.Gox.ca that accepted CAD and had the right exchange= rates for it, fuckin' A, I'm sold. But I may have to just take the risks= with the locals' overpriced, overcut, shitty grade drugs that have no feed= back as to their quality. But I'd like to believe in this site. And user/se= ller feedback. And Fiat currencies. And my talents. I don't believe in terr= orists. My balls don't let me.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on July 05, 2011, 06:= 31 am: >Basically your justification is a lame one, and i have no doubt it'= s made up.

For fuck's sake.=C2=A0 He's not making it up.

I do= n't like the idea of seller accounts being for sale either for the numerous= legit reasons I mentioned, and also for the selfish reason of I want to se= e more US LSD vendors and this will hurt that...

But I just don't se= e a better way than what Silk came up with (although I think selling them= outright would be better than auctioning them).

I'm also sure that= the threat is pure bullshit and wouldn't actually happen, but I'd probably= feel obligated to do the exact same thing in Silk's shoes.=C2=A0 I would= not want anyone's deaths on my hands like that.

If you or anyone el= se has any better ideas, feel free to speak up.=C2=A0 Silk listens to good= ideas.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anonymous1979 on July 05, 2011, 11:46= pm: Quote fro= m: Colonel Sanders on July 05, 2011, 06:31 am
Silk listens to good ideas.

How's= this one: Make two seller group types and only charge for seller accounts= planning on selling drugs (discouraging the practice that terrorist was th= reatening with) and have all other types of sellers (art, xxx, cc #'s) regi= ster freely?

Might allow for a more closely monitored group of recre= ational vendors.=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: phubaiblues on July 06, 2011, 02:14= am: I was tracking down some btc today, and I saw it had dropped in value= again,=C2=A0 and I finally realized what a motherfucker that must be for= sellers, and even when I dispute their reasoning,=C2=A0 I listen.=C2=A0 I= think you should charge/auction memberships to all, buyers included.=C2=A0= I could see charging xtra to be a seller, as that's where most of the scam= s seem to lie, but I don't like the idea that sellers are at the mercy of= both the btc system, and an unscrupulous or naive buyer who immediately th= inks the seller hasn't shipped when product doesn't arrive on time.=C2=A0=

Charging buyers to join would eliminate the bad ones, and maybe do= wngrading escrow to where it's limited when sellers have a certain amount= of points, or eliminating escrow when both buyer and seller are in agreeme= nt that seller is known and trustworthy.=C2=A0 I know my sellers, and if yo= u had a place I could click, when making transaction, to eliminate escrow,= I'd click it.=C2=A0 Leave it open and anonymous, like everything else, but= this might relieve some of the strain on sellers lately...
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 06, 2011, 04:16 am<= /strong>: We need more buyers like you making suggestions in the Features forum :)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 06, 2011, 03:47 pm<= /strong>: isiredsami - yeah except there is a glaringly huge difference between= the state and SR.

You are here 100% voluntarily.=C2=A0 nobody is st= anding behind your computer chair with a gun at the back of your head, sayi= ng that you have to be on SR and SR forums or you're dead.=C2=A0 SR is not= your property - the owner of SR can change it however he wishes and you ei= ther stay or go, his changes will reflect his desire to keep people around= doing transactions because that is the only way he makes money from SR.
The government uses these excuses to do exactly what you say, except= there is no voluntary aspect to it.=C2=A0 You either do, or you get kidnap= ped and locked away, or hospitalized or murdered, or your property is stole= n from you.=C2=A0 This isnt' legislation on SR this is somebody doing whate= ver he wants with his property, no force involved.=C2=A0 I had a seller acc= ount before and he's not going back and retroactively charging people to us= e it now, it's a "from here on out" situation - which is completely fair.= =C2=A0 He could insist that every prospective seller send in a picture prov= ing he has blue hair or eats dog food from a can if he wants.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on July 06, 2011, 04:02 pm<= /strong>: phubaiblues hit the nail on the head. buyer accounts should be bought= for a small fee.....$50 a pop for a buyer account of something like that..= ..maybe even the same price as a seller account....there goes multiple acco= unts out the window....buyers should also have a 'meter' next to there user= name which indicates how many successful buys they have had and how many so= ur ones
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Raffael on July 06, 2011, 05:22 pm: Imho SR accounts should be free but require a deposit, or at least a re= fund from successful transactions which will prove it isn't a scam. It's fa= r from perfect, but an improvement, just look at the posts about qPasteBin,= some scum in BM revealed addresses of some of his clients.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 06, 2011, 05:58 pm<= /strong>: He didn't make seller accounts paid-only until he put up that post.=C2= =A0 I have a seller account.=C2=A0 I was here before the change was made,= selling on SR.=C2=A0 It doesn't affect me in the least, it only affects ne= w people trying to get into the business.

It's like signing a contra= ct with your phone company for $20/month, and then next month they raise th= e price to $25 for all new customers.=C2=A0 I still pay $20.

Here is= SR's original post in this forum:

"
Hey gang,
As some of you= noticed, we shut down new seller accounts briefly, but have now opened the= m up again.=C2=A0 This time, we are limiting the supply of new seller accou= nts and auctioning them off to the highest bidders.=C2=A0 Our hope is that= by doing this, only the most professional and committed sellers will have= access to seller accounts.=C2=A0 For the time being, we will be releasing= one new seller account every 48 hours, though this is subject to change.= =C2=A0 If you want to become a seller on Silk Road, click "become a seller"= at the bottom of the homepage, read the seller contract and the Seller's= Guide, click "I agree" at the bottom, and then you'll be taken to the bidd= ing page.=C2=A0 Here, you should enter the maximum bid you are willing to= make for your account upgrade.=C2=A0 The system will automatically outbid= the next highest bidder up to this amount.=C2=A0 If anything is unclear,= just drop us a line.=C2=A0 Good luck!"

I'm sorry I'm not seeing any= thing dishonest here.=C2=A0 It doesn't get much more straight-forward than= this.=C2=A0 I'm not sure where you are seeing a "tragic excuse" or anythin= g contradictary.=C2=A0 He explains the reasoning, it is his site to do with= what he will, and to boot it makes perfect logical sense.

For the= record I don't believe in "fair".=C2=A0 Fair is the word people always use= when they want to steal or start imposing violence on people.

And= yes this is a "from here on out".=C2=A0 It is not retroactive to existing= sellers, it is from the time this post was made onward.

Where is th= e misleading, lying, or manipulation in this?=C2=A0 I'm obviously missing= something.....=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: phubaiblues on July 06, 2011, 06:09= pm: Most of us here--buyers and sellers--are grateful for what SR does, and= realize his position is not easy either.=C2=A0 But the reality is, somethi= ng needed to be done to prevent fake seller scammers from easily joining an= d wreaking havoc among the buyers.=C2=A0 He did that.=C2=A0 All I'm saying-= -as a buyer--is that there might be other ways of spreading the burden arou= nd.=C2=A0 And perhaps a way of lessening the burden on sellers who have pro= ved they are legit, by making it more difficult for fake *buyers* to join= easily also.=C2=A0 I hadn't realized this was a problem until lately, and= it seems it's in areas other than the ones I follow.=C2=A0 But good seller= s protect us buyers in many ways: in the packaging, in the labeling, in pm-= ing us when packages are late, in posting gpg public keys so we don't freak= about our addresses: all kinds of ways.

I get defensive when buyers= are attacked, or when sellers want private forums...but the best way to av= oid those outcomes is by accepting that some of the seller complaints are= legit, and supporting them in finding ways to make this a good safe place= for all of us....we're in this together.=C2=A0 It's a new venture, interna= tional, disliked by *all* governments, and hopefully a harbinger of a futur= e where we won't need to operate in the shadows, where what we put in *our*= bodies is *our* business.=C2=A0

So it seems one of the biggest pro= blems facing sellers is caused by abuse of escrow system, and I don't see= why there couldn't be a way where after one transaction, where both partie= s are in agreement it went well, where buyers couldn't have a way to bypass= proxy and let seller get paid.=C2=A0 The sellers I deal with won't rip me,= so if pkg goes missing, I don't feel they burnt me.=C2=A0 This would let= legit sellers and buyers just do business, and only new sellers and buyers= would be 'under the escrow gun.'=C2=A0

And I *want* SR to make mon= ey.=C2=A0 Damned straight.=C2=A0 We can have dreams and hopes and political= views all day long, but this is a business venture, and needs to be profit= able.=C2=A0 SR takes risks--provides service.

On the other hand, tho= , the auctioning/selling of seller accounts is a good idea, and needs to st= ay.=C2=A0 Nitpicking at SR's posts to prove inconsistency of ideology isn't= fair...we all jabber about all kinds of things on here.=C2=A0 That was som= ething needed to be done, and he did it.=C2=A0 Well done.=C2=A0 What we wan= t to do now is continue improvements, and find ways to get rid of bad buyer= s, or at least make it more costly for them to join: that will get rid of= the fly by nite scammers, and whatever fee, even retrocative so as not to= be hypocrite, is fine with me.=C2=A0 This site, so far, has survived quite= a bit, and we need to help it along, when we can.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Tokin' Minority on July 06, 2011, 06:= 24 pm: OK sorry if I missed the post on this one, but I registered a seller ac= count a few weeks before this new policy, and now that i want to sell I put= up a test listing. it still hasn't showed up after 24 hr. Do I need to bid= to become a seller even though I registered as one before this change?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on July 07, 2011, 04:06 am<= /strong>: i would prefer that they lie...cause i get butthurt quite easily..
<= br>seriously,who cares,its much better this way,much more organized....i li= ke things color coded....i dont wanna have to rummage through thousands of= sellers threads....and im sure SR doesnt wanna deal with all the 'chargeba= cks'.....keep the numbers regulated and limited just as it is....the only= people who are getting hurt are those who are up to no good,and those who= dont have any friends to sling a small amount of drugs to
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: KnightLightning on July 07, 2011, 02:= 14 pm: Well, this is an interesting development.

I had registered as a= seller solely to be able to post my public key in my profile because appar= ently there's no other way for a buyer to supply their public key, and not= all messages are buyer->seller... And now apparently my account is wort= h money? Interesting. Maybe I should sell it. Not like I really need it.
But more importantly, does this mean that buyers no longer have any wa= y to post their public keys? That's a shame and should be fixed soon.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 07, 2011, 05:52 pm<= /strong>: Quote fro= m: KnightLightning on July 07, 2011, 02:14 pm
Well, this is an interesting development.
I had registered as a seller solely to be able to post my public key in my= profile because apparently there's no other way for a buyer to supply thei= r public key, and not all messages are buyer->seller... And now apparent= ly my account is worth money? Interesting. Maybe I should sell it. Not like= I really need it.

Isiredsami - so now you are just bitching about= the rationale cited for the change, and not the actual outcome.=C2=A0 You= have no reason to be whining then, becasue it's his property and the few= sentences he might have written regarding what he does with it is basicall= y a nice gesture on SR's part, and something he sure as hell doesn't have= to do if he doesn't want to.

Again, I am not seeing where he has sa= id he was going to leave it open seller accounts - you still haven't shown= me anything to that regard.=C2=A0 You are moaning about a few sentences an= d basically saying you don't give a damn that seller accounts are now restr= iced, but only that they are restricted based on a perceived "threat".=C2= =A0 This is pointless at best, and at worst you are misdirecting your anger= at the fact you missed the boat while the loading ramp was still down.=C2= =A0 Get some BC and bid on a damned seller account if you want, but otherwi= se take a hike because you are prattling about pointless details.

Th= e seller side is pretty tightened up, it's the buyer side that we need to= deal with - we need a transaction history section (% of transactions deliv= ered/funds-released of total transactions).=C2=A0 If anything, LE is going= to try to get on here and gum up the seller works so they can keep prices= high as hell and keep every vendor's float tied up in mailed transactions= (then say not received).=C2=A0 This would alert sellers pretty quickly if= a buyer is playing this game.=C2=A0 THIS is the kind of stuff we need to= be concerned about to keep SR alive.
But more importantly, does this me= an that buyers no longer have any way to post their public keys? That's a= shame and should be fixed soon.

Yes this is a feature that= has been recommended numerous times - currently there is a thread going wh= ere buyers can post their public key and sellers can grab it, so the commun= ity has come up with a sort of stop-gap solution.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: j789745 on July 09, 2011, 12:28 am: @isiredsami - I feel like you're confusing what he didn't say with sayi= ng something false. True, SR didn't say he wanted to make more money. i thi= nk we all know he'd like to make more money. Most people like making money.= Why does he need to spell that out? But what is also true is that this pol= icy was in response to an actual, not fictional, problem. The market was be= coming flooded with bogus seller accounts, seeing if they could walk away= with a few BTC before a pattern emerged of their scamming. Now that someon= e has to invest, they're more likely to actually be here for the long haul.= That makes sense to me. Where's the fiction?

I also wouldn't mind= charging a small fee for buyer accounts, since buyers are capable of scamm= ing too. Making people invest a small amount of money into a semi-private= anonymous marketplace is a stabilizing force.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: BitShuffle on July 09, 2011, 12:31 am=: Gettin' sold bad dope on SR is the same as buying bad dope on the stree= t.=C2=A0 I remember a NYC brooh-hah-hah back in the 90's because dealers we= re selling heroin that was just a little bit too good, and a lot of folk en= ded up in emergency rooms.

I'm still of the opinion that buying and= selling should be wide open, and folk will let the marketplace separate th= e scoundrels from those that want to do good.

We're on the hairy edg= e here, my brothers and sisters...=C2=A0 Too many rules and regulations are= not why I came here.

- Bit
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: j789745 on July 09, 2011, 01:46 am: Letting the market decide is fine, but why not have a screening process= too? This isn't, strictly speaking, the free market; this is a privately= owned marketplace that we participate in because the people who own it all= ow us to. They set the rules and we choose to participate. We choose to par= ticipate based on them making the overall quality of the site satisfactory= for buyers and sellers. If we don't like it, there are plenty of other pla= ces on TOR to get your drugs from.. I agree we shouldn't be overburdened by= rules and regulations, but I wouldn't call a small one time fee for entran= ce into a privately owned marketplace overburdening.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: phubaiblues on July 09, 2011, 05:18= am: Sr has the rep, because they've set up an escrow system so buyers could= n't be ripped.=C2=A0 Other sites don't do as well.=C2=A0 And SR does seem= to be aware of problems and requests, and changes if they seem wanted by= all sides.=C2=A0 I agree that large quantity sites are totally different,= money is a bigger deal...but that's not the case here, and what we have wo= rks.=C2=A0 I tried other sites, didn't like them, lost some money on one,= so I came back here.=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: The Technician on July 27, 2011, 08:0= 3 am: Is there any plan in the future to revise the new seller account proces= s?=C2=A0 The price to become a seller is insane.=C2=A0 If I was the kingpin= , I wouldn't care so much, but my word!=C2=A0 There has got to be a better= way to let small business in.=C2=A0 Not everyone is looking to make $500= per transaction.=C2=A0=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on July 27, 2011, 10:46 am<= /strong>: sling small and limited quantities of dope to your friends at home????y= ou make it sound like you only got a 50 bag.......i think that would be an= easier option for you.the fee is not alot mate,you will soon make that bac= k anyways,unless you really are only wanting to shift a 50
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: nomad bloodbath on July 27, 2011, 10:= 50 am: There is always plans for the future but right now there are two ways= to get a vendors account gamble with a auction or purchase a vendors accou= nt.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Raffael on July 27, 2011, 03:17 pm: How about letting new sellers in with little fee, if any, but limiting= the amount of transactions at first in number and price?
So far SR isn'= t a market, unless we find a way to let people sell more easily.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 27, 2011, 03:41 pm<= /strong>: It's a market - there are almost 300 sellers on here.=C2=A0 And more co= ming every week.=C2=A0 If the auctions keep rolling there will be a thousan= d by year-end.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: MarketMaker on July 27, 2011, 04:37= pm: I wouldn't pay the fee but I admit I respect and agree with it in terms= of profit.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sellers are here for a reason.=C2=A0 You know the= deal before going in, take it or leave it.

Since people pay it , th= at to me shows its a "far market value" at least to enough where it's worki= ng charging.

One solution to sellers who don't want fork over money= to get started but are legit might be letting them work it off.=C2=A0 It's= alot easier to pay in product than cash for most.=C2=A0 Why not let them= work it off?=C2=A0 Seller account is 160? The guy has to move 160 in retai= l volume through escrow, that will then go directly towards his sellers acc= ount.

Sellers would have to actually have REAL transactions and feed= back to get on board fully.=C2=A0 Sure, he could fake a 300 dollar sale and= do it in one transaction but that it would still make him pay for it.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 27, 2011, 05:34 pm<= /strong>: @marketmaker - In a scenario where a seller has to get x dollars in sal= es to become "legitimate", if he were to buy the product from himself, he= would not only have a "legitimate" seller account but a positive feedback= score to boot, attracting some of the 28,000 or so members who are not reg= istered on the forums, now that the waters have been tested.=C2=A0 Same res= ult as if he had just bought an account for the roughly $100 they are going= for, but now he also has a feedback score.

Scammers generally don't= like putting a whole lot out there.=C2=A0 Legit sellers are probably going= to be more likely to do a solid bid for a seller account than a scammer wh= o is just trying to skimp some BTC from the unsuspecting user-base.=C2=A0= I think the way it is is great - still a lot of room for competition but= also keeping away fly-by-nighters.=C2=A0 SR's quality will increase as the= seller-base grows, and prices should come down a bit on the buyer side.=C2= =A0 But this way we already have a ream of established sellers carrying bas= ically every mind-altering product available, and new sellers have to be ex= tra legitimate to pass over that benchmark.=C2=A0 This forces not only qual= ity of product up, but quality of overall service by sellers on SR, includi= ng shipping, which is a biggie.=C2=A0 If someone has to compete with the be= st walking right in the door, this is good for the buyer.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: loginathome on July 28, 2011, 04:57= am: Quote fro= m: listentothemusic on June 27, 2011, 03:59 am
The way I see it, You arent able to provide= the best product if you don't even have the money to pay for an account.Not having money leads to poor products, poor packaging, and less care.= Someone who pays for an account has an added devotion to their sales. Peop= le who like making money wouldnt spend money unless they knew they were goi= ng to provide their everything to make more. Maybe they are trying to clean= up from the people trying to nickel and dime in a field that should have= only the most dedicated selling. Let's be honest with ourselves, would you= rather buy from someone who is going out to buy from their person once an= order is made, or from someone who is full on dedicated and ready to sell= to you in hand.

Not necessarily.=C2=A0 I would like to sell= Greendot Cards for Bitcoins.
And I might once I get the money to cover= the expense of the seller account.

I think that having to pay for= the sellers account just puts money into SR's pocket and drives up prices.= ...
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: BenzoMan on July 28, 2011, 12:34 pm: How much has a new Vendor to pay if he goes through auction? Average.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: chronicpain on July 28, 2011, 03:00= pm: Quote= from: loginathome on July 28, 2011, 04:57 am
Quote from: listentothemusic on June 27, 2011, 03:59 am
The way I see it, You= arent able to provide the best product if you don't even have the money to= pay for an account.
Not having money leads to poor products, poor packa= ging, and less care. Someone who pays for an account has an added devotion= to their sales. People who like making money wouldnt spend money unless th= ey knew they were going to provide their everything to make more. Maybe the= y are trying to clean up from the people trying to nickel and dime in a fie= ld that should have only the most dedicated selling. Let's be honest with= ourselves, would you rather buy from someone who is going out to buy from= their person once an order is made, or from someone who is full on dedicat= ed and ready to sell to you in hand.

Not necessarily.=C2=A0= I would like to sell Greendot Cards for Bitcoins.
And I might once I ge= t the money to cover the expense of the seller account.

I think that= having to pay for the sellers account just puts money into SR's pocket and= drives up prices....

I had thought about doing that. Except,= I would have to add so much to add so much to make it worth my while, I wo= uldn't think that I would get a lot of orders. You have he 5 dollar fee to= get one, then you have to ship it. so you would have to add 10.00 to the= price just to break even. so, would people purchase a 50.00 greendot card= for 70 bucks? thats the question...
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: loginathome on July 28, 2011, 07:11= pm: Quote= from: BenzoMan on July 28, 2011, 12:34 pm
How much has a new Vendor to pay if he goes through= auction? Average.

Last I checked, it was about 10 BTCs to pu= rchase outright.=C2=A0 And 9.5 to auction.
Or over a hundred USD either= way...
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on July 28, 2011, 07:25 pm<= /strong>: dont change the way it is,i dont fancy seeing scammers crawling in and= opening up multiple accounts etc etc....people who are serious about doing= business will pay for an account.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: loginathome on July 28, 2011, 08:47= pm: Quote= from: RedRocket on July 28, 2011, 07:25 pm
dont change the way it is,i dont fancy seeing scam= mers crawling in and opening up multiple accounts etc etc....people who are= serious about doing business will pay for an account.

yup,= and they'll hike up the prices to get their money back.=C2=A0 the cost of= a seller account should not be that high.=C2=A0 It should be half of what= it is.=C2=A0 At most.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: anarcho47 on July 29, 2011, 04:00 am<= /strong>: The cost of a seller account is purely market based - it's an auction,= and is therefore fully driven by outside demand.=C2=A0 The price is whatev= er the highest bid is.

$140 for a seller account is not bad.=C2=A0= I will have done almost 100 transactions by mid august.=C2=A0 That is $1.4= 0 per transaction, in less than 2 months.=C2=A0 That is less than the SR ma= rket fee!
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: hoo5Umuth7 on July 29, 2011, 04:29 am=: Quote= from: anarcho47 on July 29, 2011, 04:00 am
The cost of a seller account is purely market base= d - it's an auction, and is therefore fully driven by outside demand.=C2=A0= The price is whatever the highest bid is.

I don't disagree= with the auctions, but the cost isn't purely market based in that sense si= nce it's also a function of the supply of seller accounts, which is "artifi= cially" limited to one per 48 hours.=C2=A0 If the supply were increased, th= e price would go down and vice versa.=C2=A0 I think loginathome was just po= inting out that sellers will pass this cost on to buyers, although I'm not= sure it's not worth it.=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: loginathome on July 29, 2011, 05:38= am: Also you can buy them outright for 10 BTCs last I checked...

I= just feel that 5 BTCs should be enough to keep scammers out, but I'll admi= t to being biased.
:shrug:
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: novocaine on July 29, 2011, 07:00 am<= /strong>: Whoa...did we just lose around 80 sellers?
I noticed a big drop in= seller numbers next to my rating
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: loginathome on July 29, 2011, 08:35= am: wouldn't a drop mean that we got more Sellers?=C2=A0
Or am I misund= erstanding you?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: joeblow2 on July 29, 2011, 02:42 pm: You're right, loginathome, but I think the real number is more like 120= gone.=C2=A0 288 or so, down to 167 when i looked at it.

Probably a= big part of them are in "vacation mode" as they didn't have a sale in X da= ys.

Other than that, we would need SR or another admin to explain it= .

It does really illustrate how thin the market really is.=C2=A0 We= need more *good* sellers on this site.=C2=A0 A lot more! :)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: peachest on August 01, 2011, 07:50 am=: I see this new seller account fee as being problematic not just for mys= elf, but for the community in general.=C2=A0 What I have seen in this threa= d have been cost analysis done on a most base level, to simply state that= because you are nearing 100 transactions and the new seller account fee (w= hich wasn't in place at your time) is 141 dollars, it essentially is $1.41= for each transaction!=C2=A0 This is the cajolery I expect on late night in= fomercials not on open market forums.=C2=A0 The second dubious element is= the arbitrary valuation of the seller's account, sure there is an auction= where we can bid a 'fair' price but this auction block is directly underne= ath and is firmly entwined with the 11 btc price-tag in pretty bold print.= =C2=A0 I understand that scammers are bothersome and measures need be taken= to eradicate them, but it seems in this process honest the small-quantity= high-quality seller or seasonal sellers are left to face the monochrome re= adouts after inputting 'insignificant' digits.

I understand this is= primarily to keep out unsavory resellers, but couldn't it also act to serv= e certain avaricious resellers monopolistic hopes?=C2=A0 If they're able to= buy up new accounts as they come to market, keep competition to a minimum,= couldn't they make back what those accounts cost and more by controlling= every items price?=C2=A0 I know this is taking things to an extreme, but= who's to say otherwise?=C2=A0 Well I guess you need to pay to ride this tr= ain, and with all the swaying and clattering going on, I am weary of paying= to ride the luxurious Orient Express in hopes of peddling my quality nonet= heless scant wares...

I would think a fee re-evaluation or a "sample= transaction" means of verification would be as efficacious and cultivate= a richer more diverse marketplace.

Thanks,
peaches
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: ketex on August 01, 2011, 11:35 am: I have won the 2 last Seller auctions to be=C2=A0 a seller, but its som= e error, everytime the auction restarts, with my maxbid as outgoing bid.
Annoying :)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Modoki on August 02, 2011, 10:33 pm: Heya there.
Not entirely following that discussion, but though throw= ing in my two cents:
I am a good example for reasons versus such high fe= es.
I would sell a lot of stuff here if it weren't for the fees. I don't= want to put in a lot of money just to be able to sell my stuff here. I do= realize that silkroad should get compensated for his service, but I think= it is heavily overpriced.
IMO fees of >100$ are pretty ridiculous.= I won't pay them :/
Now, I feel we will experience a big shrink in sell= er count on SR and that we are already doing so.
A dealer has shitload= of things to do and it isn't as profitable as most people think.
If SR= thinks this is necessary, then fine. But don't expect much sellers then.Greets, M
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: cronus12 on August 03, 2011, 05:14 pm=: Really people, if you don't like the cost involved, then do what you ha= ve to do elsewhere.=C2=A0 It's as simple as that.=C2=A0 They are offering= the option of either a one time fee or bidding on an auction.=C2=A0 It all= comes down to the question, would you rather spend $0 standing on a street= corner amongst crack heads, heroin junkies, and narcs, or pay ~$100 and si= t in some coffee shop anonymously with your latte, biscotti, and laptop amo= ngst book worms and corporate execs?=C2=A0 If it's worth it, which it seems= to be to a number of members, then people will happily pay.=C2=A0 And even= if there is a charge, I would still think it to be a free open market.=C2= =A0 The word free does not necessarily mean without cost.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: Colonel Sanders on August 04, 2011,= 05:41 am: Did any of you guys even read what Silk Road posted?

He doesn't= want to charge for seller accounts and he's not doing it to make money or= try to deter scammers or non-serious sellers.

He had a nutjob threa= tening to send out lethal products to buyers just to create a shitstorm, an= d it was the only way Silk had of doing ANYTHING to deter that.

So= all this argument about "Well if someone's not serious enough to pay a fee= and blah blah blah" is moot.=C2=A0 Silk said he didn't want to restrict th= e market that way, and it has NOTHING to do with that.

I fucking -HA= TE- that seller accounts cost money now, but I probably would've made the= same call in Silk Road's shoes.=C2=A0 Would you want to worry that some as= shole might poison a bunch of people anonymously unless you did SOMETHING?= =C2=A0 I wouldn't.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RedRocket on August 04, 2011, 09:37= am: you guys are slinging drugs,not fucking wine gums,the fee should not be= an issue...youre sacraficing 1 or two orders to sell here permanently,fuck= you cheapskates.i dont want to buy from cheapskates....good luck curb craw= ling=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: jedediah on August 05, 2011, 06:49 am=: Quote= from: RedRocket on August 04, 2011, 09:37 am
you guys are slinging drugs,not fucking wine gum= s,the fee should not be an issue...youre sacraficing 1 or two orders to sel= l here permanently,fuck you cheapskates.i dont want to buy from cheapskates= ....good luck curb crawling

oh don't worry.=C2=A0 i can assur= e you that no seller that's had the pleasure of reading your forum posts wa= nts to sell to you anyway.=C2=A0 you come across as a childish asshole in= need of some ritalin.=C2=A0 you're exactly the type of user this place doe= sn't need more of. (thanks gawker!)
Title: HOW DO I GET TO THE ROAD?
Post by: user9754 on July 21, 2012, 08:11 am: any help would definitely be appreciated in helping me find the road...= thanks in advance=20
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: thisworld on July 21, 2012, 08:23 pm<= /strong>: This thread is almost a year old buddy.=C2=A0 Besides, how did you find= the forums without finding the SR?
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: pine on July 22, 2012, 01:02 am: Quote= from: thisworld on July 21, 2012, 08:23 pm
This thread is almost a year old buddy.=C2=A0 Besi= des, how did you find the forums without finding the SR?

Haha= , wow, I nearly had a heart attack thanks to this zombie thread being resur= rected.
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RxKing on July 22, 2012, 01:19 am: Lets lock this thread now too Lim.

=C2=A0:)
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: GreenGiant on July 22, 2012, 01:23 am=: Quote= from: pine on July 22, 2012, 01:02 am
Quote from: thisworld on July 21, 2012, 08:23 pm
=
This thread is almost a year old= buddy.=C2=A0 Besides, how did you find the forums without finding the SR?<= br>

Haha, wow, I nearly had a heart attack thanks to this zombie= thread being resurrected.

I didn't even notice the dates an= d thought it must be important and read bloody 7 pages before i noticed the= date said 27th July, then i was confused for like 3 minutes thinking I had= lost several days or something and then i figured out the stupid thread wa= s from last year!

F*ck that was good joint!
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RxKing on July 22, 2012, 02:58 pm: Quote= from: goblin on July 22, 2012, 02:56 pm
This system of auctioning off seller positions soun= ds unfair in the extreme. It sounds like you're just trying to make more mo= ney. Although on the other hand, you might find you get more by leaving thi= ngs as they are and having people pay a set price for a seller account.
=
And who says only the more dedicated and professional will get these po= sitions? That's crap!

goblin

Goblin...This post is a= year old..LOL

You really need to pay a little more attention to wha= t you are reading before you post!
Title: Re: New seller accounts
Post by: RxKing on July 22, 2012, 06:28 pm: Hey Lim----

Lock this year old thread please... so more people= that don't read well ...yet feel they need to add there 2 cents don't do= it.

=C2=A0:)
Title: buyer
Post by: rufus666 on November 10, 2012, 07:33= pm: i am a 3 month buyer with good stats why wont you let me in?
Title: Re: buyer
Post by: Purple_Hue000 on November 10, 2012,= 07:43 pm: Quote= from: rufus666 on November 10, 2012, 07:33 pm
i am a 3 month buyer with good stats why wont= you let me in?

Dude, others like myself=C2=A0 been here for= quite some time.=20
Title: Want to buy good stuff?
Post by: iceman8989 on January 07, 2013, 02:02= am: Im ur guy for the job, i have connections in almost anything so just se= nd me a message guys thanks again.

=09 SMF 2.0.5 | SMF =C2=A9 2013, Simple Machines
=09